[00:00.000 --> 00:06.780]  You're listening to the Liberty beat your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates online at the Liberty beat.com
[00:07.020 --> 00:10.900]  This is Justin Armand here with your Liberty beat for February 20th
[00:11.500 --> 00:13.500]  2014 gold open today at
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[00:32.220 --> 00:39.900]  Erminger at cap star lending for your residential mortgage needs call Dorothy at five one two three four three six four nine four or
[00:39.900 --> 00:42.220]  online at call Dorothy comm
[00:42.940 --> 00:50.780]  NMLS number two one six six two four and from my magic mud available at brave new books or online at my magic mud
[00:50.780 --> 00:57.700]  Dot-com and now the news a December drone strike in Yemen launched by the United States may have killed up to a dozen
[00:57.820 --> 01:04.800]  Citizens in route to a wedding while leaving others including the bride injured US officials claim that only members of Al Qaeda were killed
[01:04.800 --> 01:07.660]  But refused to make public the investigation into the strike
[01:08.180 --> 01:13.440]  According to the Associated Press New York based Human Rights Watch Thursday released a report on the drone strike
[01:13.440 --> 01:19.180]  It was compiled from interviews with eight witnesses relatives of those who were killed and officials from Yemen
[01:19.180 --> 01:26.700]  The report states that 12 men died and 15 others wounded as a result of the December 12th attack conducted by firing four
[01:26.700 --> 01:28.700]  Hellfire missiles at the wedding-goers
[01:31.900 --> 01:35.580]  The attorney for the family of a 17 year old Georgia boy killed by police
[01:35.900 --> 01:43.100]  Says the teen was holding a video game controller when he opened his door as officers served a probation violation warrant to the boy's father
[01:43.100 --> 01:52.100]  WSB TV reports that a female officer told the Georgia Bureau of Investigation that Christopher Rupe pointed a gun at her after opening the door on Friday
[01:52.100 --> 01:59.100]  The attorney disagrees saying the teen was simply getting ready to watch a movie when police arrived and was holding a Nintendo Wii controller
[01:59.100 --> 02:02.100]  The investigation is in the hands of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation
[02:04.100 --> 02:08.100]  A Bitcoin mini conference is coming to Austin's brave new books on March 9th
[02:08.100 --> 02:17.100]  According to organizers the event will serve as a launch party for the 512 Bitcoin information clearing house in association with Sovereign BTC and the BitMom
[02:17.100 --> 02:24.100]  The event is planned from 9 in the morning to 2 in the afternoon. The event will feature speakers Cody Wilson, John Bush and Catherine Bleich
[02:26.100 --> 02:30.100]  We are currently sitting on a cusp in terms of political and cultural consciousness
[02:30.100 --> 02:35.100]  There is a wave of liberty rising right now and we have an incredible opportunity if we can only capture this momentum
[02:35.100 --> 02:39.100]  The youth are waking up to the dysfunctional realities of the two party system
[02:39.100 --> 02:45.100]  This message was a part of Kurt Hildebrand's formal announcement that he's running for state chair of the Libertarian Party of Texas
[02:45.100 --> 02:50.100]  The Texas Libertarian Party's state convention is happening from April 11th through the 13th
[02:50.100 --> 03:05.100]  You've been listening to the Liberty Beat. Remember, freeing your mind is freeing our world
[03:20.100 --> 03:27.100]  Came in a box just like the thing I accepted for value right away
[03:27.100 --> 03:31.100]  It's not through her, not later
[03:31.100 --> 03:38.100]  We are originators and the pathway seems to get straighter every day
[03:38.100 --> 03:45.100]  And I can take anything that belongs to me and put it to good use
[03:45.100 --> 03:52.100]  What I was good for the gander is gonna work for the goose
[03:52.100 --> 04:00.100]  I know some architects, I know some engineers
[04:00.100 --> 04:07.100]  They see me evident, they know a student seems queer
[04:07.100 --> 04:14.100]  What's up with the blatant deception? What is the nature of what you might gain?
[04:14.100 --> 04:19.100]  I see something headed straight for you
[04:19.100 --> 04:25.100]  Okay, we are back. I think we're back. Yes, Bradley Kelton, Joe Esquivel
[04:25.100 --> 04:30.100]  And Joe, you were talking to Jeff in North Carolina
[04:30.100 --> 04:35.100]  Right, we were talking about bankruptcy and the issues
[04:35.100 --> 04:40.100]  So right now we just need to find out just what actually happened
[04:40.100 --> 04:45.100]  We need to get a copy of the documents as they existed at the time in bankruptcy
[04:45.100 --> 04:48.100]  And just take it from there
[04:48.100 --> 04:55.100]  Analyze the documents, do an analysis, see who's claiming an interest
[04:55.100 --> 05:01.100]  If it is Freddie, Fannie or Ginny, we need to go in there and look at them
[05:01.100 --> 05:07.100]  Get into the trust that they're in, see who's making the claim
[05:07.100 --> 05:13.100]  Because, you know, pursuant to Nemo Dat, one cannot sell what one does not own
[05:13.100 --> 05:18.100]  Even though they attempt to do it every single day, Randy
[05:18.100 --> 05:21.100]  That's Nemo Dat quote non-habit
[05:21.100 --> 05:22.100]  Correct
[05:22.100 --> 05:25.100]  One cannot sell or give what he has not
[05:25.100 --> 05:28.100]  But yet they do that on the court steps
[05:28.100 --> 05:29.100]  Every day
[05:29.100 --> 05:36.100]  Not every day, but usually the first Tuesday of every month
[05:36.100 --> 05:37.100]  So
[05:37.100 --> 05:42.100]  In a non-judicial state, the only thing that a foreclosing party needs a court for
[05:42.100 --> 05:47.100]  Is a place to fence the stolen property
[05:47.100 --> 05:50.100]  Well, does that help you, Jeff?
[05:50.100 --> 05:51.100]  It definitely helped me
[05:51.100 --> 05:53.100]  Now here's what I'm going to ask you
[05:53.100 --> 05:57.100]  Because I'm you, I'm you, but I definitely will be a return visitor
[05:57.100 --> 06:01.100]  Because it's been great and entertaining and educational
[06:01.100 --> 06:04.100]  So how do I get these things to you guys
[06:04.100 --> 06:09.100]  And what's the process in that regard?
[06:09.100 --> 06:13.100]  Okay, you can email the documents to me
[06:13.100 --> 06:17.100]  Or to Joe, you want to give him an email?
[06:17.100 --> 06:26.100]  Sure, info at mortgagecomplianceinvestigators.com
[06:26.100 --> 06:36.100]  And just put Attention Joe and send everything in a PDF format
[06:36.100 --> 06:43.100]  And have your contact info and we'll take a look and, you know, say, okay, let's see what we have
[06:43.100 --> 06:47.100]  All right, all right, that sounds great
[06:47.100 --> 06:49.100]  I do appreciate that
[06:49.100 --> 06:52.100]  And so I'm going to let you move on to your next caller
[06:52.100 --> 06:54.100]  Because I know you guys got one or the other
[06:54.100 --> 06:57.100]  And I appreciate your time and I'm going to go ahead and get that over to you
[06:57.100 --> 07:03.100]  And then hopefully we'll follow up on the future call or through the email and we'll go from there
[07:03.100 --> 07:05.100]  I really do appreciate that
[07:05.100 --> 07:07.100]  Sure
[07:07.100 --> 07:09.100]  Okay, thank you, Jeff
[07:09.100 --> 07:14.100]  Tune in every Friday at 8, 8 Central
[07:14.100 --> 07:17.100]  Ah, don't touch that dial
[07:17.100 --> 07:20.100]  Right
[07:20.100 --> 07:24.100]  Now we're going to Chris in Pennsylvania. Hello, Chris
[07:24.100 --> 07:25.100]  Hello, Randy
[07:25.100 --> 07:27.100]  How's it going?
[07:27.100 --> 07:30.100]  It's going good. What do you have for us today?
[07:30.100 --> 07:34.100]  I was interested in what you talked about with Jeff
[07:34.100 --> 07:44.100]  I found that really interesting when you were talking about the fact that his loan was bought through a merger
[07:44.100 --> 07:47.100]  And was just a worthless piece of paper
[07:47.100 --> 07:53.100]  So that the person who took over his paperwork really has nothing to sell
[07:53.100 --> 07:58.100]  Well, actually, the loan didn't change hands. The servicing rights changed hands
[07:58.100 --> 08:03.100]  Right, but it's the payment and tangible obligation which everybody's getting confused on
[08:03.100 --> 08:08.100]  It is the intangible payment obligation which gets sold
[08:08.100 --> 08:10.100]  Let's keep in mind tangible instrument
[08:10.100 --> 08:13.100]  That's what people call the wet ink dock
[08:13.100 --> 08:17.100]  And Joe uses the term tangible and intangible on purpose
[08:17.100 --> 08:21.100]  This is the language straight from the uniform commercial code
[08:21.100 --> 08:25.100]  UCC doesn't call it a blue ink or wet ink document
[08:25.100 --> 08:27.100]  It's a tangible instrument
[08:27.100 --> 08:32.100]  Now that tangible instrument has an intangible revenue stream
[08:32.100 --> 08:37.100]  That's called an I promise to pay, fill in your dollar amount
[08:37.100 --> 08:44.100]  And they try to attach a real property value to an intangible transferable record
[08:44.100 --> 08:48.100]  Chris, have you ever heard of factoring?
[08:48.100 --> 08:50.100]  Factoring?
[08:50.100 --> 08:52.100]  Yes
[08:52.100 --> 09:02.100]  I have a company and I'm doing service and I'm billing out billings to people
[09:02.100 --> 09:05.100]  But they're not paying me
[09:05.100 --> 09:09.100]  In order to keep generating dollar flow, I got to have some money to work with
[09:09.100 --> 09:22.100]  So I go to the bank and I want to sell the right to be paid on these bills to the bank for 75% of the value of them
[09:22.100 --> 09:29.100]  So they give me a check for 75% of the value of these and then they collect on it
[09:29.100 --> 09:32.100]  This is exactly what the banks are doing
[09:32.100 --> 09:35.100]  They have this note with this right to be paid on it
[09:35.100 --> 09:43.100]  And they still hold the note, but they factor out the income to somebody else
[09:43.100 --> 09:46.100]  So somebody else has a right to be paid
[09:46.100 --> 09:54.100]  When JP Morgan Chase received all the assets of Washington Mutual
[09:54.100 --> 10:00.100]  They received what Washington Mutual still owned
[10:00.100 --> 10:03.100]  They didn't own the right to be paid
[10:03.100 --> 10:08.100]  They didn't own the real value in those mortgages
[10:08.100 --> 10:12.100]  They only owned the boxes of paper Joe was talking about
[10:12.100 --> 10:26.100]  And they just shuffled the paper around and Washington Mutual didn't even transfer the deed of trust from Washington Mutual to JP Morgan Chase
[10:26.100 --> 10:37.100]  What's their name? The company you just mentioned that sold to Bank of America
[10:37.100 --> 10:43.100]  Countrywide sold their personal assets to Bank of America
[10:43.100 --> 10:47.100]  But they didn't own the right to be paid, so Bank of America didn't buy that
[10:47.100 --> 10:58.100]  Well no, and then if you go to Kemp vs. Countrywide and go to the Linda DiMartini deposition in which she states, Countrywide is in the business of selling beneficial interest
[10:58.100 --> 11:03.100]  Countrywide is not in the business of selling notes
[11:03.100 --> 11:09.100]  Does the difference between the right to receive and the right to collect?
[11:09.100 --> 11:12.100]  Correct
[11:12.100 --> 11:18.100]  So if you purchase, I'll give you an example
[11:18.100 --> 11:27.100]  If you have a strip shopping center, you've got ten stores in the strip shopping center in Charlotte, North Carolina, okay?
[11:27.100 --> 11:30.100]  And you've got tenants in those stores
[11:30.100 --> 11:36.100]  Now you've fallen on hard times and you can't pay all your bills
[11:36.100 --> 11:41.100]  And suddenly you're asleep one night and you have an epiphany
[11:41.100 --> 11:48.100]  And you come up with this great idea that, wait a minute, I've got tenants in those stores
[11:48.100 --> 11:51.100]  Each of those tenants has a lease agreement
[11:51.100 --> 11:54.100]  That lease agreement is worth money
[11:54.100 --> 11:57.100]  That's an intangible revenue stream
[11:57.100 --> 12:04.100]  Correct, now you can sell the rights to those leases to Randy
[12:04.100 --> 12:13.100]  Because those leases have a monetary value of future earnings
[12:13.100 --> 12:19.100]  Now you're still on the brick and mortar building, but you no longer own the rights to collect payments from those leases
[12:19.100 --> 12:24.100]  And that's legal and basically that's what is done
[12:24.100 --> 12:30.100]  In the commercial money center bankruptcy, the Ninth Circuit Appellate Court had no difficulty
[12:30.100 --> 12:37.100]  Concluding that the rights to intangible payments can be stripped from the records that evidence them
[12:37.100 --> 12:42.100]  So what they're doing is selling the right to collect payment
[12:42.100 --> 12:47.100]  They did not sell the mortgage loan instrument being the tangible promissory note
[12:47.100 --> 12:51.100]  The security instrument that attaches itself to the intangible obligation
[12:51.100 --> 12:54.100]  And the intangible obligation which is the promise to pay
[12:54.100 --> 12:57.100]  They sold a partial interest
[12:57.100 --> 13:00.100]  Steve, if you have a partial interest, do you have the whole thing?
[13:00.100 --> 13:01.100]  Nope
[13:01.100 --> 13:03.100]  There you go
[13:03.100 --> 13:13.100]  Okay, so if you're reopening that in bankruptcy court and say you claim it in F and it now is unsecured debt
[13:13.100 --> 13:14.100]  Correct
[13:14.100 --> 13:16.100]  What we're getting at then
[13:16.100 --> 13:17.100]  Exactly
[13:17.100 --> 13:26.100]  Correct, and now if that was me, I would file an adversarial complaint, all right, disputing their claim to title
[13:26.100 --> 13:34.100]  Because if they're coming forth claiming it's an asset, okay, as Randy Soellick only states
[13:34.100 --> 13:42.100]  By what statutory requirement of law did you acquire this, all right?
[13:42.100 --> 13:45.100]  So how did you rightfully acquire the right?
[13:45.100 --> 13:50.100]  Because pursuant to negotiable instruments for North Carolina
[13:50.100 --> 13:57.100]  You need to go to your state's equivalence of Article 3 for negotiable instruments
[13:57.100 --> 14:05.100]  And within those statutes, there's only one statute that pertains to acquiring rights, and that's 3203
[14:05.100 --> 14:09.100]  And that's your state equivalent to the Uniform Commercial Code
[14:09.100 --> 14:17.100]  Right, so when you go there, all right, you would then understand that pursuant to your statute, all right
[14:17.100 --> 14:23.100]  Your statute specifically states in 25-3-203D
[14:23.100 --> 14:30.100]  If a transfer purports to transfer less than the entire instrument, negotiation of the instrument does not occur
[14:30.100 --> 14:36.100]  The transfer obtains no rights under this article and has only the rights of a partial assignee
[14:36.100 --> 14:45.100]  So if they did not acquire the right to the note, meaning being named as payee on the payee line
[14:45.100 --> 14:51.100]  If they're not named into public record in a timely fashion pursuant to 9312
[14:51.100 --> 14:55.100]  Meaning they have 20 days within the sale, negotiation, transfer of the note
[14:55.100 --> 15:01.100]  And if they're not the sole party with sole claim of the intangible obligation
[15:01.100 --> 15:07.100]  Then they have not fulfilled the requirement pursuant to 25-3-203D
[15:07.100 --> 15:09.100]  And that's how you dispute it
[15:09.100 --> 15:22.100]  Now, for clarification under bankruptcy law, the reason that we make such a big deal about your scheduling the property as unsecured
[15:22.100 --> 15:34.100]  Is that unsecured obligations can be written off as where secured obligations go back to the secured creditor if there be one
[15:34.100 --> 15:35.100]  Right
[15:35.100 --> 15:43.100]  Just to interject here quickly, in North Carolina, you would look into general statutes under Section 25
[15:43.100 --> 15:48.100]  So it would be 25-3-203
[15:48.100 --> 15:50.100]  Subsection D
[15:50.100 --> 15:52.100]  Subsection D
[15:52.100 --> 15:59.100]  Going back here, you mentioned about the 20-day period that they have to
[15:59.100 --> 16:07.100]  Right, you have a temporary perfection of the security interest, all right, and that's for 20 days
[16:07.100 --> 16:11.100]  Okay, so that's a UCC statute that
[16:11.100 --> 16:15.100]  Right, you have your state's equivalent, too
[16:15.100 --> 16:16.100]  Okay
[16:16.100 --> 16:26.100]  So for North Carolina, it would fall under 9-312F, subsection F, subsection G
[16:26.100 --> 16:37.100]  Where after 20 days, by operation of law, the secured becomes an unsecured obligation, hence Humpty Dumpty falls off the wall, cannot be put back together again
[16:37.100 --> 16:38.100]  All right
[16:38.100 --> 16:39.100]  I hear the music
[16:39.100 --> 16:43.100]  Do you know where I might find that in Pennsylvania?
[16:43.100 --> 16:48.100]  Sure, I can look that up as well, I have it
[16:48.100 --> 16:50.100]  Yeah, we'll get that on the other side of the break
[16:50.100 --> 16:52.100]  We'll get that on the other side
[16:52.100 --> 16:55.100]  Randy
[16:55.100 --> 16:57.100]  Oh, I was waiting for you guys
[16:57.100 --> 17:25.100]  We'll be right back
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[18:49.100 --> 18:51.100]  That's ruleoflawradio.com
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[19:00.100 --> 19:12.100]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, the LogosRadioNetwork.com
[19:12.100 --> 19:14.100]  Well, don't let nothing get to you
[19:14.100 --> 19:17.100]  Only the father can't believe by you
[19:17.100 --> 19:20.100]  Don't let bad-minded people hurt you
[19:20.100 --> 19:23.100]  Until they start to get behind you
[19:23.100 --> 19:49.100]  Norman, my friend, now I'll judge you
[19:49.100 --> 19:51.100]  Okay, we are back
[19:51.100 --> 19:55.100]  Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, Steve Skidmore, Rule of Law Radio
[19:55.100 --> 19:58.100]  And we're talking to Chris in Pennsylvania
[19:58.100 --> 20:02.100]  And for the record, I want to apologize for pulling a quickie on Randy
[20:02.100 --> 20:06.100]  I know they're going out of the break with two seconds left on the clock
[20:06.100 --> 20:08.100]  I just kind of handed you the ball and I'm sorry
[20:08.100 --> 20:10.100]  Thank you, that's all right
[20:10.100 --> 20:12.100]  I very adroitly dropped it
[20:12.100 --> 20:14.100]  Yes, you did
[20:14.100 --> 20:17.100]  Chris, you asked me about Pennsylvania
[20:17.100 --> 20:24.100]  All right, so for Pennsylvania, it's going to be under Division 9, Chapter 93, Subjection B
[20:24.100 --> 20:33.100]  So it's listed as 13PA CSA 939312
[20:33.100 --> 20:35.100]  9312
[20:35.100 --> 20:36.100]  Correct
[20:36.100 --> 20:40.100]  And you're going to look under
[20:40.100 --> 20:44.100]  Okay, perfection
[20:44.100 --> 20:49.100]  It's going to be, yeah, all the way at the bottom of it
[20:49.100 --> 20:55.100]  It's going to be under G and H, under Temporary Perfection
[20:55.100 --> 21:00.100]  The Security Certificate or the Instrument to Debtor
[21:00.100 --> 21:07.100]  A perfected security interest in a certificate, security, or instrument remains perfected for 20 days without filing
[21:07.100 --> 21:17.100]  if the secured party delivers a security certificate or the instrument to the debtor for the purpose of ultimate sale or exchange or presentation
[21:17.100 --> 21:21.100]  H, expiration of temporary perfection
[21:21.100 --> 21:27.100]  After the 20-day period specified in subsection E, F, or G expires
[21:27.100 --> 21:30.100]  Perfection depends upon compliance within this division
[21:30.100 --> 21:42.100]  So if by day 21 you have not filed it into public record, by operation of law it becomes an unsecured obligation
[21:42.100 --> 21:50.100]  And once it's unsecured, you can't put Humpty Dumpty back on the wall again. You've got scrambled eggs, right, Randy?
[21:50.100 --> 21:52.100]  Right
[21:52.100 --> 22:02.100]  And if I might be permitted a moment of shameless self-promotion, I have taken upon myself the liberty of separating each state
[22:02.100 --> 22:12.100]  and gathering all of the laws that would touch a mortgage or foreclosure or secured instruments and put them all in one place
[22:12.100 --> 22:26.100]  And I have put them on prosaforeclosure.wordpress.com. You can go to legal research tools, find your state, and all of those statutes are there
[22:26.100 --> 22:35.100]  including but not limited to each individual state adoption of the Uniform Commercial Code. I'm trying to make things very easy for people to help themselves
[22:35.100 --> 22:44.100]  Can you promote that one more time? 49 of the states all have a similar equivalence to the Uniform Commercial Code
[22:44.100 --> 22:50.100]  The only state which is really different would be the state of New York which still uses the 1961 SEC version
[22:50.100 --> 22:52.100]  Correct, and I've got that on there
[22:52.100 --> 23:00.100]  And yeah, that was prosaforeclosure, all one word, prosaforeclosure.wordpress.com
[23:00.100 --> 23:17.100]  The other, just to state an issue here, I had a, I've discussed this with Randy before, I had a Wachovia mortgage originally
[23:17.100 --> 23:18.100]  I'm sorry
[23:18.100 --> 23:32.100]  Yeah, me too, Josh. And it got transferred several times in the middle to IndyMac, all the other companies who went belly up because they were doing bad things
[23:32.100 --> 23:43.100]  And it went back to Wachovia. So when I look in my recorder of deeds and I look at the original title, the mortgage signed, it was with Wachovia
[23:43.100 --> 23:49.100]  And it just so happens it came back to Wachovia in the end before it was transferred to Wells Fargo
[23:49.100 --> 24:01.100]  Wells Fargo didn't do an assignment of the mortgage until two years after they picked it up from Wachovia
[24:01.100 --> 24:02.100]  Too late
[24:02.100 --> 24:14.100]  Today, all right, I'm going to ask a question. When the assignment was done, was a trust named or were this just banks named?
[24:14.100 --> 24:21.100]  It was from Wachovia, it was a MERS through Wachovia
[24:21.100 --> 24:39.100]  Okay, all right, so here, when the assignments came up, was it MERS to IndyMac Bank? Was it MERS to whomever? Was it always MERS keep, did MERS keep assigning it to bank after bank after bank?
[24:39.100 --> 24:44.100]  Or was it like trust vehicles 2007-3?
[24:44.100 --> 24:56.100]  Hold on, was it Bank of America as trustee for and then a big name for a trust? That's the way they'll do it a lot
[24:56.100 --> 25:02.100]  Right, there were no names associated with any of those assignments
[25:02.100 --> 25:19.100]  What I discovered was in our, we discussed this before, my home mortgage insurance lists and gives me a copy of who the mortgagee is at the time of my insurance payment
[25:19.100 --> 25:34.100]  So I'm aware of who is the mortgagee in case I file an insurance claim over $8,000, it has to go to the mortgagee to be, to give me the okay to make that claim
[25:34.100 --> 25:39.100]  Right, but all of these transfers must be reflected in the public record
[25:39.100 --> 25:54.100]  Right, but you know what, it sounds like, right now, just what he's saying, it sounds like it's running to a GSE, right, because they're transferring the servicing rights and it's going from party to party to party
[25:54.100 --> 25:58.100]  If you check, it's probably going to be with Freddie, Fannie or Ginny
[25:58.100 --> 26:01.100]  It's Fannie
[26:01.100 --> 26:03.100]  That's an easy one to find
[26:03.100 --> 26:18.100]  There's a real cool thing that Chris did by going to the mortgage insurance company and getting the names of the beneficiaries of the insurance
[26:18.100 --> 26:37.100]  Is when the lender comes to the table to foreclose and he puts down his chain of title, Chris can drag this out and say, now wait a minute, you got these names here, who are these guys over here who are listed as beneficiaries?
[26:37.100 --> 26:51.100]  Right, and that's great, and that's why especially now, Randy, that we've been going into, not only do we go into the exact Fannie Mae or Ginny Mae or Freddie Mac trust
[26:51.100 --> 27:06.100]  So rather than saying, yeah, it's all by Fannie Mae, we go into what trust is it, and I look at what security group is it with, is it with group one, group two, group three, and who was the seller
[27:06.100 --> 27:24.100]  Because if Randy Kellen's mortgage company was listed as the original lender and Randy sold it to Chase, and then Chase went to the window of Fannie Mae and sold this intangible obligation
[27:24.100 --> 27:39.100]  All right, many times there is a lack of knowledge as who was the actual seller that created the intangible obligation that was sold based on the payment stream from the tangible promissory note
[27:39.100 --> 27:52.100]  This party would be called the account debtor, and that's one of the things that we do as well, you know, we go to the source
[27:52.100 --> 27:55.100]  So that's just another bit of information
[27:55.100 --> 28:01.100]  And if you're confused, this show has been archived
[28:01.100 --> 28:13.100]  That makes perfect sense, but when you look at the person who's the debtor who sold it off to Fannie Mae, now Fannie Mae holds it, and you're telling me that it's in a trust
[28:13.100 --> 28:18.100]  How do I come across that information? Is there public knowledge of this trust?
[28:18.100 --> 28:25.100]  No, you call mortgage compliance investigators, and we do a trust search
[28:25.100 --> 28:34.100]  These GSE trusts are pretty much impenetrable, but there are certain luxuries that come with holding a license
[28:34.100 --> 28:55.100]  Yeah, so I have resources that we're able to find out exactly where you can penetrate the trust. Yes, it is located at, and again, that's something that we do that very few others that I know do
[28:55.100 --> 29:14.100]  That would benefit me if I'm in foreclosure, and in the state of Pennsylvania, we have these conciliatory meetings where we try to get together with the bank, and we do this whole bunch of BS, really, because there's nothing done at these meetings
[29:14.100 --> 29:16.100]  You'll get no argument out of me on that
[29:16.100 --> 29:26.100]  Yeah, you sit there with the attorney, and he tries to tell you that you didn't submit this paper in time, so we need you to fill out all of the paperwork again, and we'll meet him
[29:26.100 --> 29:29.100]  It's irrelevant. That's all irrelevant
[29:29.100 --> 29:36.100]  So you're telling me that if I could come up with this trust, I might be able to put something in there
[29:36.100 --> 29:51.100]  If you can show that the party in front of you is not the party to enforce, game over, baby. Now I hear the music in the background. Chris, if you got more questions or comments, stay on the line. This is Steve Skidmore, Joe Esquivel, Randy Kelton.
[29:51.100 --> 30:02.100]  Calling number 512-646-1984. We will be back on the other side of this break. Stay tuned
[30:02.100 --> 30:16.100]  Your voice says a lot about you and your moods, and now the government wants to use it to analyze whether you're angry, drunk, or lying. I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll be back in a moment to tell you about this latest form of electronic surveillance
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[30:45.100 --> 30:57.100]  Airports are starting to feel a bit like prisons with X-rays, pat-downs, and body scanners. But a new technology may soon, well, enhance our flying experience even further, voice analysis.
[30:57.100 --> 31:09.100]  Researchers are developing technology to analyze people's conversations. They're scanning for hundreds of vocal cues like pitch, timing, and intensity that change when people are upset or intoxicated.
[31:09.100 --> 31:24.100]  It can also tell whether a person is lying with about 70% accuracy. The U.S. Air Force is helping to pay for this with $1.5 million of our tax money. I wonder if they can analyze my voice to figure out how I feel about that.
[31:24.100 --> 31:31.100]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
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[33:21.100 --> 33:49.100]  I want, I want, I won't let you pull the wool over my eyes.
[33:49.100 --> 34:07.100]  Okay, we are back. We're having way too much fun on the brakes. This is Randy Kelton, Joe Skidmore, and Steve Esquivel.
[34:07.100 --> 34:24.100]  We knew that was bound to happen. That had to happen sooner or later. That fourth root beer was about all I could handle. Okay, we're talking to Chris. Okay, where are we at, Chris?
[34:24.100 --> 34:42.100]  Well, I was wondering if, if I reopen my bankruptcy case with this information and go in with that, the argument that the bank has to show their ability to inform the note.
[34:42.100 --> 34:48.100]  Have they, have they produced their proof of claim in the original bankruptcy?
[34:48.100 --> 35:02.100]  No. You go in, you go in and challenge their claim, put them on the unsecured side of the bankruptcy, and then demand that they come up and prove up to claim.
[35:02.100 --> 35:23.100]  If you've got Joe's evaluation, and especially with all the names you've got, when they come in and try to make these claims and you refute them, all you have to do is overcome the prima facie.
[35:23.100 --> 35:33.100]  When they make the claims on the face of it, the court will accept what they're saying is true and accurate and complete.
[35:33.100 --> 35:37.100]  This may be true and accurate, but it may not be complete.
[35:37.100 --> 35:47.100]  That's why they got that part about the whole truth. So you come in and bring in the rest of the truth and you overcome their prima facie evidence.
[35:47.100 --> 35:55.100]  This will give you enough to raise a question. You are the holder of the property.
[35:55.100 --> 36:03.100]  So they have to overcome the presumption in order to take your rights and the property away from you.
[36:03.100 --> 36:11.100]  So they've got the bigger hill to climb than you do, and all you have to do is bring doubt.
[36:11.100 --> 36:23.100]  And it's only $26 to amend your schedule. The only difference is you have to file the filing fees to do a motion to reopen your case.
[36:23.100 --> 36:28.100]  Joe, just for kicks and giggles here, let's get something on the record.
[36:28.100 --> 36:32.100]  I've bantered back and forth with several people about this and I hold my ground.
[36:32.100 --> 36:42.100]  If a negotiable instrument is no longer eligible for negotiation, is that instrument void?
[36:42.100 --> 36:44.100]  Void or votable?
[36:44.100 --> 36:47.100]  No, not necessarily.
[36:47.100 --> 36:48.100]  No, because?
[36:48.100 --> 36:53.100]  If somebody already holds it, that just means he can't negotiate with someone else.
[36:53.100 --> 36:58.100]  What happens is that if it is less than the entire instrument.
[36:58.100 --> 36:59.100]  Right.
[36:59.100 --> 37:04.100]  You need to, it would have to go back and make it whole in order to negotiate it.
[37:04.100 --> 37:05.100]  But you can't.
[37:05.100 --> 37:12.100]  Can't. The only way you can do it, they would have to buy back the intangible.
[37:12.100 --> 37:18.100]  Once they've acquired the intangible, now you have the tangible, now you have the intangible.
[37:18.100 --> 37:23.100]  You can make the note whole, you can't make the mortgage whole.
[37:23.100 --> 37:25.100]  No, you can't make the mortgage whole.
[37:25.100 --> 37:31.100]  And what that means is while you can make the claim against the debtor,
[37:31.100 --> 37:36.100]  you cannot make the in rim claim against the property.
[37:36.100 --> 37:40.100]  And that's why they can only claim one or the other.
[37:40.100 --> 37:41.100]  Right.
[37:41.100 --> 37:49.100]  That's the value of the Chapter 7 because if you can go into the courts like with a quiet title
[37:49.100 --> 37:56.100]  and say to the court, this document when it was filed, it failed to meet the filing requirements
[37:56.100 --> 37:58.100]  for this reason, this reason, this reason.
[37:58.100 --> 38:02.100]  If you get the court to accept one of those reasons,
[38:02.100 --> 38:08.100]  then that document becomes void and unenforceable as to the holder.
[38:08.100 --> 38:15.100]  Now you go back for your Chapter 7 bankruptcy and claim the property is non-secured
[38:15.100 --> 38:20.100]  and it is non-secured as collateral estoppel.
[38:20.100 --> 38:25.100]  The bank is collateral estopped from claiming that this document is valid
[38:25.100 --> 38:29.100]  because another court has already ruled that it isn't.
[38:29.100 --> 38:33.100]  And this is why we kind of changed our direction somewhat.
[38:33.100 --> 38:37.100]  We're going into stealth mode.
[38:37.100 --> 38:42.100]  You kind of sneak around behind them by attacking the weakest document
[38:42.100 --> 38:46.100]  in the link that's filed in the county record.
[38:46.100 --> 38:51.100]  If you could find one of those that are screwed up, then you go after that document.
[38:51.100 --> 38:57.100]  And you don't try to get the judge to rule that the other side doesn't have a claim.
[38:57.100 --> 39:01.100]  You don't want to cheat them out of their money or anything like that.
[39:01.100 --> 39:04.100]  It's just you got these state filing rules.
[39:04.100 --> 39:10.100]  And they say you're supposed to do it this way and they didn't do it that way.
[39:10.100 --> 39:14.100]  So the filing did not meet the statutory filing requirements
[39:14.100 --> 39:18.100]  and asked the court to rule that they didn't do this right.
[39:18.100 --> 39:19.100]  They need to fix this.
[39:19.100 --> 39:22.100]  They need to go back and do it correctly.
[39:22.100 --> 39:29.100]  But once they have done this, this is back in the past.
[39:29.100 --> 39:35.100]  If it's a transfer of the security instrument,
[39:35.100 --> 39:43.100]  if you can go back with Joe's information and show that the lender,
[39:43.100 --> 39:51.100]  when he transferred the security instrument, he didn't hold the conditions for enforcement.
[39:51.100 --> 39:52.100]  Right.
[39:52.100 --> 39:55.100]  He didn't hold the right to be paid on the note.
[39:55.100 --> 40:02.100]  So he may have negotiated the security instrument, but he didn't negotiate the note.
[40:02.100 --> 40:10.100]  So once he separated these two, then the security instrument becomes unenforceable.
[40:10.100 --> 40:13.100]  You go back to 3.203.
[40:13.100 --> 40:19.100]  If the transferor purports to transfer less than the entire instrument, negotiation does not occur.
[40:19.100 --> 40:23.100]  These are the two that cannot be put back together.
[40:23.100 --> 40:29.100]  But what you really want, you just want one of these documents rendered unenforceable.
[40:29.100 --> 40:34.100]  Then you run in and drop in your own claim in the record.
[40:34.100 --> 40:35.100]  Right.
[40:35.100 --> 40:40.100]  Write your next door neighbor a note, and they file a deed of trust in the record.
[40:40.100 --> 40:41.100]  Right.
[40:41.100 --> 40:46.100]  Now when these guys come back and try to fix their claim, they've got yours in front of theirs.
[40:46.100 --> 40:52.100]  And then you run down to the bankruptcy court, do your Chapter 7 claim this is unsecured.
[40:52.100 --> 40:58.100]  And when they come in and try to say it is secured, you show this, say, well, this says it's not.
[40:58.100 --> 41:00.100]  And then you make them both go away.
[41:00.100 --> 41:04.100]  If you try to make them both go away at once, I've never seen anybody get that done.
[41:04.100 --> 41:05.100]  Right.
[41:05.100 --> 41:13.100]  But if you sharp-shoot them on the county on the documents first, you know, while you're over here doing this mediation,
[41:13.100 --> 41:21.100]  there's nothing to keep you from filing a quiet title action against primarily the deed of trust
[41:21.100 --> 41:26.100]  or the mortgage in Pennsylvania, a deed of trust state or mortgage state.
[41:26.100 --> 41:28.100]  Mortgage.
[41:28.100 --> 41:29.100]  Okay.
[41:29.100 --> 41:30.100]  So good.
[41:30.100 --> 41:31.100]  Good.
[41:31.100 --> 41:32.100]  That's great.
[41:32.100 --> 41:36.100]  You go in and file against the security instrument.
[41:36.100 --> 41:45.100]  And if you can get that security instrument rendered unenforceable, and there's a lot of ways to do that,
[41:45.100 --> 41:51.100]  never claim, hope it to the rest of the consumer protection laws.
[41:51.100 --> 41:52.100]  Right.
[41:52.100 --> 41:55.100]  You're always out of time on them anyway.
[41:55.100 --> 42:08.100]  What you claim is the applicable law and serviceability claim, clause, covenants, unicovenant.
[42:08.100 --> 42:10.100]  Covenant 16.
[42:10.100 --> 42:16.100]  And in that, both parties agreed to abide by all law.
[42:16.100 --> 42:22.100]  So you say you had this consumer protection law over here that they failed to abide by.
[42:22.100 --> 42:25.100]  Therefore, they breached covenant 16.
[42:25.100 --> 42:33.100]  Don't claim the remedy under the consumer protection law.
[42:33.100 --> 42:36.100]  You use that as the breach of contract.
[42:36.100 --> 42:40.100]  That's a whole lot easier for a judge to wrap his head around and you say,
[42:40.100 --> 42:46.100]  Judge, I granted this guy a privilege of a claim against the property.
[42:46.100 --> 42:54.100]  I granted him that privilege based on these restrictions and conditions, and he violated those.
[42:54.100 --> 42:58.100]  He violated those intentionally, voluntarily.
[42:58.100 --> 43:01.100]  Therefore, he repudiated this contract.
[43:01.100 --> 43:06.100]  He can no longer exercise the privilege.
[43:06.100 --> 43:13.100]  Does not go to the claim he has against you, only to the privilege of exercising it against the property.
[43:13.100 --> 43:18.100]  That's not so hard for the judge to do.
[43:18.100 --> 43:25.100]  But it's harder for them to do if you get that ruling and then jump in the bankruptcy court with a Chapter 7.
[43:25.100 --> 43:32.100]  Now you take out the other half of the instrument with the bankruptcy court.
[43:32.100 --> 43:34.100]  Did I say that right, Joe?
[43:34.100 --> 43:40.100]  Yes, because it's the obligation and the BK that you discharge.
[43:40.100 --> 43:48.100]  So if it's an unsecured obligation and you get the debt discharge, remember the security instrument,
[43:48.100 --> 43:53.100]  the mortgage, cannot survive a moment without the debt.
[43:53.100 --> 43:56.100]  So we will take this back up on the other side.
[43:56.100 --> 43:58.100]  This is Joe Esquil, Randy Kilton.
[43:58.100 --> 44:02.100]  Be right back.
[44:02.100 --> 44:03.100]  Hello.
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[45:01.100 --> 45:04.100]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[46:14.100 --> 46:24.100]  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah
[46:24.100 --> 46:30.100]  Always, I must be careful what I'm wishing for
[46:30.100 --> 46:35.100]  When I'm hungry, I like to know just what I'm fishing for
[46:35.100 --> 46:41.100]  I ain't asking for much, I ain't trying to be no glutton
[46:41.100 --> 46:46.100]  I'm just here making my living, pushing buttons
[46:46.100 --> 46:52.100]  I give my message, I'll be the one to shout and listen
[46:52.100 --> 46:58.100]  I vote for bravery, stand against slavery, showing resistance
[46:58.100 --> 47:03.100]  First I'm crawling, then I'm walking, then I start strutting
[47:03.100 --> 47:12.100]  Just so black and white
[47:12.100 --> 47:17.100]  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[47:17.100 --> 47:22.100]  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[47:22.100 --> 47:26.100]  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[47:26.100 --> 47:47.100]  Yes, I sit at home and I pray to God
[47:47.100 --> 47:50.100]  Oh, oh, oh, oh
[47:50.100 --> 47:55.100]  Yes, I sit at home and I pray to God
[47:55.100 --> 48:04.760]  suggesting. And Bushwhack. Bushwhack is great. And that's what you've got. You've got this
[48:04.760 --> 48:10.480]  hammer here and you're holding it up there. Just come on guys, give me that list, that
[48:10.480 --> 48:14.760]  chain of title. I want to see it.
[48:14.760 --> 48:21.280]  Ambush litigation is not allowed in civil cases, but Bushwhacking is.
[48:21.280 --> 48:29.340]  And what's nice is in BK court, all right, if you're in a state with a mortgage, if they're
[48:29.340 --> 48:33.980]  going to foreclose, they need to produce a copy of the note as it exists at that time.
[48:33.980 --> 48:34.980]  Yeah.
[48:34.980 --> 48:37.920]  Once it's exhibited into court, it's fair game.
[48:37.920 --> 48:39.540]  And that's more ammo for you.
[48:39.540 --> 48:43.820]  And that's fun. That's where we have lots of fun, Randy. You know, we use states to
[48:43.820 --> 48:50.300]  our requirements of law, showing what was to be done, what was done, what was not done.
[48:50.300 --> 48:55.740]  And should they decide to put another document in the court? Well, then we get them with
[48:55.740 --> 49:01.040]  candor towards tribunal, fraudulent documents, deceiving the court.
[49:01.040 --> 49:02.040]  Right.
[49:02.040 --> 49:03.040]  Fraud upon the court.
[49:03.040 --> 49:07.940]  Fraud upon the court. You know, you just have all sorts of fun.
[49:07.940 --> 49:13.800]  There's another one too, is a felony, aggravated perjury. Something I do admire about all of
[49:13.800 --> 49:18.160]  these mortgage servicers in the wake of the foreclosure crisis, mortgage crisis, is they
[49:18.160 --> 49:23.900]  are very good at giving us ammunition to use against them.
[49:23.900 --> 49:29.300]  That is absolutely true. We seem to find the same thing with public officials.
[49:29.300 --> 49:30.300]  Yes.
[49:30.300 --> 49:32.300]  It goes to hubris.
[49:32.300 --> 49:33.300]  It does.
[49:33.300 --> 49:35.300]  What about counterfeiting?
[49:35.300 --> 49:38.660]  Confidence. Go ahead, Chris.
[49:38.660 --> 49:43.460]  What about counterfeiting? I thought if you're going to bring into the court of law something
[49:43.460 --> 49:48.500]  as a substitute for a security instrument, it's the same as printing out a dollar bill.
[49:48.500 --> 49:49.500]  No.
[49:49.500 --> 49:58.420]  Counterfeiting goes to United States securities, and mortgages are not in that realm.
[49:58.420 --> 49:59.420]  No.
[49:59.420 --> 50:02.620]  Now we get to legalese.
[50:02.620 --> 50:03.620]  Yes.
[50:03.620 --> 50:04.620]  Right.
[50:04.620 --> 50:10.540]  I've tried, I thought that I might have a case against them for counterfeiting on that
[50:10.540 --> 50:15.780]  exact issue until I started really researching exactly what counterfeiting is according to
[50:15.780 --> 50:18.300]  the law, and it does not apply.
[50:18.300 --> 50:23.940]  No, not even with a security instrument and the dollar bill being a security instrument.
[50:23.940 --> 50:24.940]  No.
[50:24.940 --> 50:25.940]  Okay, one thing.
[50:25.940 --> 50:26.940]  One thing.
[50:26.940 --> 50:30.540]  Counterfeiting goes specifically to United States securities, and your mortgage is not
[50:30.540 --> 50:33.020]  considered to United States security.
[50:33.020 --> 50:34.020]  Okay.
[50:34.020 --> 50:46.420]  Let me issue a caution. We have a lot of people looking for new ways to make claims, and the
[50:46.420 --> 50:57.180]  one thing that I find most astonishing is the very most basic claims they're not making.
[50:57.180 --> 51:02.260]  We don't need a bunch of innovative ways to go at them.
[51:02.260 --> 51:08.220]  You bring something like that to the court, and you've got a big struggle giving the court
[51:08.220 --> 51:20.140]  sufficient law for him to apply to the facts, but basics, what is the very first thing you
[51:20.140 --> 51:25.220]  should look at when you're in a foreclosure situation?
[51:25.220 --> 51:27.220]  Public record.
[51:27.220 --> 51:28.220]  Contract.
[51:28.220 --> 51:29.220]  Nice.
[51:29.220 --> 51:37.020]  This is all about the contract. Read that thing. Read the contract. Read the security
[51:37.020 --> 51:47.380]  instrument, and the note is the contract that pretty well prescribes your behavior. The
[51:47.380 --> 51:54.460]  security instrument, be it the mortgage document or the deed of trust, pretty much prescribes
[51:54.460 --> 52:03.580]  the behavior of the borrower, oops, the behavior of the lender, and it says what he can't do
[52:03.580 --> 52:10.060]  and look in there and say, is there anything that the lender did that would breach any
[52:10.060 --> 52:18.420]  covenant of this contract? For instance, is it an FHA loan?
[52:18.420 --> 52:19.420]  I don't believe it.
[52:19.420 --> 52:20.420]  No, it's Fannie Mae.
[52:20.420 --> 52:31.140]  If it's not an FHA loan, then covenant 20. Did he sell a portion of the note but not
[52:31.140 --> 52:33.740]  sell it together with his security instrument?
[52:33.740 --> 52:44.140]  Breach the contract. You don't have to show harm. You intended to do business with one
[52:44.140 --> 52:53.460]  entity. They forced you to do business with another entity. You didn't agree to that the
[52:53.460 --> 52:57.540]  way they did it. You agreed to let them sell a portion of the note, but only if they sold
[52:57.540 --> 53:00.580]  it with the security instrument.
[53:00.580 --> 53:03.100]  What's wrong with that, Joe?
[53:03.100 --> 53:13.300]  Well, you got what was said in the contract and what you're able to do legally and lawfully.
[53:13.300 --> 53:19.420]  There's no way that you can sell a partial interest of the tangible promissory note on
[53:19.420 --> 53:25.260]  itself. When it says this note or a partial interest of the note together with the security
[53:25.260 --> 53:30.820]  instrument may be sold one or more times without notice to the borrower, you must sell the
[53:30.820 --> 53:38.340]  entire instrument, the note and the promise to pay the intangible obligation. You cannot
[53:38.340 --> 53:43.340]  sell the intangible obligation and have the security instrument followed.
[53:43.340 --> 53:52.940]  So what it says is, in layman's terms, is you are perfectly authorized to screw yourself
[53:52.940 --> 53:54.340]  if you want to.
[53:54.340 --> 53:55.340]  Exactly.
[53:55.340 --> 54:02.540]  Yeah. It's a free country. You can sell a portion of this note if you want to, and we'll
[54:02.540 --> 54:06.980]  see how that works out for you, Bubba.
[54:06.980 --> 54:14.060]  Selling the things, if you want to get down to the facts of law, Covenant 20 is a violation
[54:14.060 --> 54:15.060]  of law.
[54:15.060 --> 54:21.780]  Well, again, the way they go about it is a violation.
[54:21.780 --> 54:23.260]  Well, that's why we've asked the bank.
[54:23.260 --> 54:26.180]  It may not be a violation. It's a legal impossibility.
[54:26.180 --> 54:33.980]  It's a legal impossibility. The banks claim that it's conjunctive. I say it's disjunctive.
[54:33.980 --> 54:36.100]  It is disjunctive according to 3-203.
[54:36.100 --> 54:46.340]  Well, it's disjunctive because it's the note or a partial interest. It did not say and,
[54:46.340 --> 54:48.980]  so there is a definite break.
[54:48.980 --> 54:51.220]  It can't say and, or it wouldn't make sense.
[54:51.220 --> 54:52.220]  Correct.
[54:52.220 --> 54:55.740]  The note and a partial interest in the note.
[54:55.740 --> 55:01.180]  Well, they just put it in there, and when they record it into public record, now it's
[55:01.180 --> 55:07.580]  prima facie evidence of what their intent was. You can't say, well, I didn't intend
[55:07.580 --> 55:15.660]  to do this. No, it's recorded in public record, but intent does not overrule statutory requirements
[55:15.660 --> 55:22.980]  of law. So if statutory requirements of law say otherwise, well, I'm sorry. You're out,
[55:22.980 --> 55:23.980]  Bubba.
[55:23.980 --> 55:31.940]  If they're saying they didn't realize this, they messed this up, then we say, under law,
[55:31.940 --> 55:34.380]  you're screwed.
[55:34.380 --> 55:35.380]  No.
[55:35.380 --> 55:36.380]  Screws VUS.
[55:36.380 --> 55:39.380]  Does that help you, Chris?
[55:39.380 --> 55:48.060]  Yeah, that helps me a lot. If I'm looking at this whole thing, the way you're presenting
[55:48.060 --> 55:56.300]  it to me, it shouldn't be a real big issue. My issue is getting those one resolve before
[55:56.300 --> 56:00.660]  the opening of the bankruptcy case to go in and say that I already had a judgment on this.
[56:00.660 --> 56:05.860]  And, Randy, when we discussed this the last time, you mentioned about doing a declaratory
[56:05.860 --> 56:13.820]  judgment based on the fact that a judge would be able to look at the fact that Wachovia
[56:13.820 --> 56:20.700]  through MERS as the nominee made an assignment to Wells Fargo two years after they were closed
[56:20.700 --> 56:22.740]  as a business.
[56:22.740 --> 56:33.220]  Okay, this goes to legal definitions of terms. Wachovia, under law, was a person. Now, under
[56:33.220 --> 56:37.180]  the common meaning of the terms, it wasn't. It was a corporation. But under law, it's
[56:37.180 --> 56:48.260]  a person. And the person died. And somebody tried to do a transfer for a dead guy. That's
[56:48.260 --> 56:50.260]  not hard to understand.
[56:50.260 --> 56:56.380]  Right. So that would be a no-brainer then. If I present that to a judge for a declaratory
[56:56.380 --> 57:00.100]  judgment, he should be able to look at that and see that, hey, there's no way you could
[57:00.100 --> 57:03.380]  have made this assignment. This guy's dead.
[57:03.380 --> 57:04.380]  Correct.
[57:04.380 --> 57:07.060]  It's a fraud on its face.
[57:07.060 --> 57:12.700]  You need to ask yourself, was this document that was filed into public record eligible
[57:12.700 --> 57:14.020]  to be recorded?
[57:14.020 --> 57:15.020]  Right.
[57:15.020 --> 57:23.660]  Again, you have to understand, because MERS deals in the intangible world, they don't deal
[57:23.660 --> 57:32.000]  in the tangible. They only deal in the intangible. So when they say, we transfer all beneficial
[57:32.000 --> 57:39.140]  interests and a mortgage together with the non-beneficial interest, again, what did they
[57:39.140 --> 57:40.140]  assign?
[57:40.140 --> 57:41.140]  Yeah, just the interest.
[57:41.140 --> 57:43.580]  The interest of a transferable record.
[57:43.580 --> 57:44.580]  Right.
[57:44.580 --> 57:48.860]  And keep in mind, assignment and transfer do not mean the same thing.
[57:48.860 --> 57:56.260]  Well, if they claim they transferred the beneficial interest, when in fact the beneficial interest
[57:56.260 --> 58:01.300]  is held by a trust, I call that aggravated perjury.
[58:01.300 --> 58:02.300]  Yeah.
[58:02.300 --> 58:05.100]  Tampered with a government document.
[58:05.100 --> 58:06.100]  Slander of title.
[58:06.100 --> 58:11.140]  Would they go to slander? Yeah, they would go to slander of title.
[58:11.140 --> 58:12.140]  Yeah, we'd go to slander of title.
[58:12.140 --> 58:13.140]  Yeah, sure would.
[58:13.140 --> 58:14.140]  Sure would.
[58:14.140 --> 58:19.060]  The slander of title is simple. The other two get these puppies put in jail where they
[58:19.060 --> 58:24.020]  belong. Mark, Paul, we see you there. And we're going to the top of the arrow break.
[58:24.020 --> 58:28.940]  We will pick you up on the other side. Chris, do we have anything else for you at the moment?
[58:28.940 --> 58:31.220]  No, that was perfect. Thank you, guys.
[58:31.220 --> 58:41.220]  Thank you, Chris. And don't be a stranger. This is Randy Kelton, Joe Stevens, Steve Esquivel,
[58:41.220 --> 58:44.220]  and Yednar Notlick.
[58:44.220 --> 58:55.220]  Would you like to make more definite progress in your walk with God? Bibles for America
[58:55.220 --> 59:00.900]  is offering a free study Bible and a set of free Christian books that can really help.
[59:00.900 --> 59:05.380]  The New Testament Recovery Version is one of the most comprehensive study Bibles available
[59:05.380 --> 59:09.860]  today. It's an accurate translation and it contains thousands of footnotes that will
[59:09.860 --> 59:15.060]  help you to know God and to know the meaning of life. The free books are a three volume
[59:15.060 --> 59:20.380]  set called Basic Elements of the Christian Life. Chapter by chapter, Basic Elements of
[59:20.380 --> 59:25.820]  the Christian Life clearly presents God's plan of salvation, growing in Christ, and
[59:25.820 --> 59:31.700]  how to build up the church. To order your free New Testament Recovery Version and Basic
[59:31.700 --> 59:40.620]  Elements of the Christian Life, call Bibles for America toll free at 888-551-0102. That's
[59:40.620 --> 59:48.820]  888-551-0102. Or visit us online at bfa.org.
[59:48.820 --> 01:00:00.500]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com.
[01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:04.340]  You're listening to the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist
[01:00:04.340 --> 01:00:09.860]  updates online at thelibertybeat.com. This is Justin Armand here with your Liberty Beat
[01:00:09.860 --> 01:00:18.500]  for February 20th, 2014. Gold opened today at $1,315, silver at $21.67, and bitcoin is
[01:00:18.500 --> 01:00:24.780]  trading at $598. Support for the Liberty Beat comes from Massapil Printing, your source
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[01:00:36.620 --> 01:00:47.620]  at 512-343-6494 or online at calledorthy.com, NMLS number 216624. And from My Magic Mud,
[01:00:47.620 --> 01:00:52.220]  available at Brave New Books or online at mymagicmud.com.
[01:00:52.220 --> 01:00:56.620]  And now the news. A December drone strike in Yemen launched by the United States may
[01:00:56.620 --> 01:01:00.780]  have killed up to a dozen citizens en route to a wedding while leaving others, including
[01:01:00.780 --> 01:01:05.540]  the bride, injured. U.S. officials claim that only members of Al-Qaeda were killed but refused
[01:01:05.540 --> 01:01:09.860]  to make public the investigation into the strike. According to the Associated Press,
[01:01:09.860 --> 01:01:13.860]  New York-based Human Rights Watch Thursday released a report on the drone strike. It
[01:01:13.860 --> 01:01:18.620]  was compiled from interviews with eight witnesses, relatives of those who were killed, and officials
[01:01:18.620 --> 01:01:24.060]  from Yemen. The report states that 12 men died and 15 others wounded as a result of
[01:01:24.060 --> 01:01:32.380]  the December 12th attack conducted by firing four Hellfire missiles at the weddinggoers.
[01:01:32.380 --> 01:01:36.860]  The attorney for the family of a 17-year-old Georgia boy killed by police says the teen
[01:01:36.860 --> 01:01:41.220]  was holding a video game controller when he opened his door as officers served a probation
[01:01:41.220 --> 01:01:47.180]  violation warrant to the boy's father. WSB-TV reports that a female officer told the Georgia
[01:01:47.180 --> 01:01:51.860]  Bureau of Investigation that Christopher Rupe pointed a gun at her after opening the door
[01:01:51.860 --> 01:01:55.980]  on Friday. The attorney disagrees, saying the teen was simply getting ready to watch
[01:01:55.980 --> 01:02:00.500]  a movie when police arrived and was holding a Nintendo Wii controller. The investigation
[01:02:00.500 --> 01:02:06.660]  is in the hands of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. A Bitcoin mini-conference is coming to Austin's
[01:02:06.660 --> 01:02:10.780]  Brave New Books on March 9th. According to organizers, the event will serve as a launch
[01:02:10.780 --> 01:02:16.340]  party for the 512 Bitcoin Information Clearing House in association with Sovereign BTC and
[01:02:16.340 --> 01:02:20.380]  the BitMom. The event is planned from 9 in the morning to 2 in the afternoon. The event
[01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:27.060]  will feature speakers Cody Wilson, John Bush, and Catherine Bleich. We are currently sitting
[01:02:27.060 --> 01:02:30.980]  on a cusp in terms of political and cultural consciousness. There is a wave of liberty
[01:02:30.980 --> 01:02:35.980]  rising right now, and we have an incredible opportunity if we can only capture this momentum.
[01:02:35.980 --> 01:02:40.500]  The youth are waking up to the dysfunctional realities of the two-party system. This message
[01:02:40.500 --> 01:02:44.340]  was a part of Kurt Hildebrand's formal announcement that he is running for state chair of the
[01:02:44.340 --> 01:02:48.860]  Libertarian Party of Texas. The Texas Libertarian Party's state convention is happening from
[01:02:48.860 --> 01:02:54.260]  April 11th through the 13th. You've been listening to the Liberty Beat. Remember, freeing your
[01:02:54.260 --> 01:03:11.260]  mind is freeing our world.
[01:03:24.260 --> 01:03:47.260]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton. Yadnard Notlick. That's Randy Kelton, spelled Baptist. I was
[01:03:47.260 --> 01:03:52.260]  doing everything Baptist last time. So Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, Steve Skidmore. We're
[01:03:52.260 --> 01:03:59.260]  on the radio, and we're going to Mark in Wisconsin. Mark, I know you're causing trouble. Well,
[01:03:59.260 --> 01:04:09.980]  just a little. It's in his nature. Yeah, it seems to be. So we've got... That's not a
[01:04:09.980 --> 01:04:17.460]  bad thing, Mark. No, I don't consider it a bad thing at all. Which we will call Dewey
[01:04:17.460 --> 01:04:27.220]  Cheatham Howe and somebody's cousin named Vinnie. We got two separate corporations. One, Company
[01:04:27.220 --> 01:04:36.940]  Name LLC, and the other being a similar company name, but not quite the same ink. Now, the
[01:04:36.940 --> 01:04:42.380]  various lawyers, four lawyers there, Dewey Cheatham Howe and cousin named Vinnie, had
[01:04:42.380 --> 01:04:52.780]  represented named company LLC in multiple different lawsuits, notably two settlement
[01:04:52.780 --> 01:05:03.780]  actions, and then the gentleman purported to be the owner in personal actions related
[01:05:03.780 --> 01:05:12.180]  to the business. Time passed. He didn't do anything with him. Now, there is a trademark
[01:05:12.180 --> 01:05:20.660]  dispute between Company Name LLC and similar, but not quite the same Company Name ink. And
[01:05:20.660 --> 01:05:29.060]  lo and behold, the law firm of Dewey Cheatham Howe are now representing the similarly named
[01:05:29.060 --> 01:05:45.780]  Company Ink versus Company Name LLC. So do we have a conflict of interest there? Steve,
[01:05:45.780 --> 01:05:52.460]  I wouldn't think there's a conflict of interest. The problem is, like you said, two entirely
[01:05:52.460 --> 01:05:59.100]  different entities, are they claiming to be the same entity?
[01:05:59.100 --> 01:06:02.420]  Steve In the case of the trademark, they're claiming
[01:06:02.420 --> 01:06:09.820]  that they both want the same word to be trademarked, yes. The other way in which this gets more
[01:06:09.820 --> 01:06:20.940]  twisted is the second entity created itself when the first entity tried to fire the general
[01:06:20.940 --> 01:06:26.020]  manager. So the general manager at the keys said, I'll just create new companies and I'll
[01:06:26.020 --> 01:06:31.340]  take the money from the till and put them in my companies. And so it's been a bit of
[01:06:31.340 --> 01:06:38.260]  a legal fight. But I'd say you can't do that. Well, yes.
[01:06:38.260 --> 01:06:43.100]  That only depends on whether or not he has a non-compete agreement.
[01:06:43.100 --> 01:06:49.380]  He's got nothing. More to the point, you can do that, then you have to have somebody be
[01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:58.500]  willing to take you to court to stop you doing it. And that's why they're in court now. So
[01:06:58.500 --> 01:07:05.780]  I was just curious if the attorneys having represented the first business in various
[01:07:05.780 --> 01:07:15.140]  lawsuits had some legal obligation to not represent against them in the subsequent lawsuit.
[01:07:15.140 --> 01:07:25.620]  I see what you're asking. Are the lawsuits are related?
[01:07:25.620 --> 01:07:33.140]  The relationship would be only that some of the players are the same.
[01:07:33.140 --> 01:07:41.740]  Okay. Let me rephrase that a bit. Are they related in such a way that the lawyer who
[01:07:41.740 --> 01:07:51.260]  represented company A, when he represented company B against A, would have special inside
[01:07:51.260 --> 01:07:58.460]  information as a result of his representation of company A?
[01:07:58.460 --> 01:08:07.180]  That argument could certainly be made, yes. I can't see on what level what learned could
[01:08:07.180 --> 01:08:14.060]  be used against him in company, you know, in the second lawsuit with the trademark,
[01:08:14.060 --> 01:08:20.780]  because trademark is rather disconnects from company A's not paying their bills and therefore
[01:08:20.780 --> 01:08:23.300]  getting sued.
[01:08:23.300 --> 01:08:31.620]  Yeah, the way just from the surface, it appears as though there would not be a justifiable
[01:08:31.620 --> 01:08:32.620]  conflict.
[01:08:32.620 --> 01:08:40.220]  Okay. I can still bar-greed them over it and, you know, kick up some dirt.
[01:08:40.220 --> 01:08:45.340]  Oh yeah, you can always bar-greed them just for yucks. Just because when you bar-greed
[01:08:45.340 --> 01:08:53.260]  them, you just to watch them dance and tip your toe around and get all excited.
[01:08:53.260 --> 01:09:00.980]  My pet theory is actually the gentleman who is at the nexus of this whole thing is such
[01:09:00.980 --> 01:09:08.820]  a habitual liar that he went so far as to actually forge an electronic signature of
[01:09:08.820 --> 01:09:16.060]  the lawyer, because the application, using names and a bunch of other stuff, but...
[01:09:16.060 --> 01:09:20.860]  Unauthorized practice of law if he's pretending to be the lawyer. If he's signing documents
[01:09:20.860 --> 01:09:23.980]  as a lawyer, then that's UPL.
[01:09:23.980 --> 01:09:29.540]  Well, it's not if he's signing the lawyer's name, then that's just forgery.
[01:09:29.540 --> 01:09:35.540]  Right. Forgery and impersonating. Where else it makes it interesting is one of the other
[01:09:35.540 --> 01:09:42.180]  documents that I believe is forged is of his daughter, who is a lawyer, business lawyer.
[01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:46.700]  Can you prove the forgery?
[01:09:46.700 --> 01:09:53.060]  It's electronic document. The best that I can do is to ask the... And I've got a call
[01:09:53.060 --> 01:09:58.580]  in and they've not called me back and I've got to start harassing them, the trademark
[01:09:58.580 --> 01:10:03.140]  people to say, okay, what IP address was this stuff submitted from?
[01:10:03.140 --> 01:10:09.580]  Yeah. And you might want to look into a forensic document examiner. They're not cheap.
[01:10:09.580 --> 01:10:16.100]  If it's electronic, that's going to be kind of tough.
[01:10:16.100 --> 01:10:22.340]  It is, but he can do the trick you're talking about, Randy, about blowing up the image and
[01:10:22.340 --> 01:10:23.860]  seeing if it's pixelated.
[01:10:23.860 --> 01:10:28.860]  Well, if this is an electronic document, it's necessarily going to be pixelated.
[01:10:28.860 --> 01:10:31.460]  It's going to be pixelated. Yeah. I'm sorry.
[01:10:31.460 --> 01:10:38.940]  It was created electronically for the $275 El Chippo filier trademark.
[01:10:38.940 --> 01:10:39.940]  Gotcha.
[01:10:39.940 --> 01:10:53.020]  So the only hope is that the parties who maybe their names forged stepping forward with affidavits
[01:10:53.020 --> 01:10:57.420]  going, yeah, that wasn't us.
[01:10:57.420 --> 01:10:58.420]  That would do it.
[01:10:58.420 --> 01:10:59.420]  Yeah.
[01:10:59.420 --> 01:11:00.420]  Yes.
[01:11:00.420 --> 01:11:01.420]  That would do it.
[01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:03.420]  Or at least that would give prima facie.
[01:11:03.420 --> 01:11:04.420]  Yes.
[01:11:04.420 --> 01:11:12.940]  If these guys who said they didn't do it have a dog in the hunt, then it's not dead bang.
[01:11:12.940 --> 01:11:19.740]  But it lends weight to your side. You always need evidence and that would give you some
[01:11:19.740 --> 01:11:20.740]  evidence.
[01:11:20.740 --> 01:11:26.900]  Yeah. Well, I'm trying to get the IP addresses from where this stuff was filed and what credit
[01:11:26.900 --> 01:11:34.900]  card was used to pay for it because it'd be real odd if the person in the Nexus who's
[01:11:34.900 --> 01:11:44.660]  known as a disseminator of truth or disassembler of truth paid for the filing fee for the attorney
[01:11:44.660 --> 01:11:45.660]  also.
[01:11:45.660 --> 01:11:49.300]  Very tactfully put and a very good point.
[01:11:49.300 --> 01:12:00.940]  They can go to a monthly printout, they can go back into the records and they can see
[01:12:00.940 --> 01:12:03.700]  who paid for what and how did they pay for it.
[01:12:03.700 --> 01:12:04.700]  Yeah.
[01:12:04.700 --> 01:12:10.700]  And in theory, there should be a Freedom of Information Act to cover it.
[01:12:10.700 --> 01:12:11.700]  Absolutely.
[01:12:11.700 --> 01:12:22.420]  Wait a minute. I don't know if these documents fall under freedom of information, especially
[01:12:22.420 --> 01:12:25.540]  if you're asking for records that belong to a company.
[01:12:25.540 --> 01:12:32.340]  I'd be asking for the payment that was received by the trademark.
[01:12:32.340 --> 01:12:41.620]  Oh, that would. The trademark is not a private organization. It is a governmental entity.
[01:12:41.620 --> 01:12:42.620]  Correct.
[01:12:42.620 --> 01:12:46.700]  Oh, okay. That was helpful for you.
[01:12:46.700 --> 01:12:54.220]  Yeah. You can pretty well presume that any government record having to do with money
[01:12:54.220 --> 01:13:05.220]  is always going to be open, unless it's hush money, broad money or money you pay to your
[01:13:05.220 --> 01:13:06.220]  hooker.
[01:13:06.220 --> 01:13:09.740]  Well, in the end, it's a black budget.
[01:13:09.740 --> 01:13:13.420]  Yeah, black budget. There you go.
[01:13:13.420 --> 01:13:26.580]  Yeah. All right. Well, I appreciate the insight into the conflict of interest issue. A little
[01:13:26.580 --> 01:13:32.980]  less exciting answer than I was hoping for, but oh well. And then I'd ask your call screener
[01:13:32.980 --> 01:13:39.460]  to ask you a question, Randy. Is that a valid address or not? Or didn't you get the message?
[01:13:39.460 --> 01:13:41.780]  I didn't get the message.
[01:13:41.780 --> 01:13:45.180]  Okay. That's fine.
[01:13:45.180 --> 01:13:50.660]  Okay. You got my email, haven't you?
[01:13:50.660 --> 01:13:56.780]  I believe so. I think I'd ask the question. An email never heard back from you.
[01:13:56.780 --> 01:14:06.140]  Oh, I don't know. I might've missed it. I get a lot of emails. If you put your subject
[01:14:06.140 --> 01:14:09.700]  line in all caps, I'll tend to see it.
[01:14:09.700 --> 01:14:12.620]  Just yell at you, huh?
[01:14:12.620 --> 01:14:13.620]  Exactly.
[01:14:13.620 --> 01:14:14.620]  Internet screening.
[01:14:14.620 --> 01:14:15.620]  Yeah.
[01:14:15.620 --> 01:14:20.620]  Okay. Thank you, Paul. Now we're going to-
[01:14:20.620 --> 01:14:21.620]  That was Mark.
[01:14:21.620 --> 01:14:25.660]  Mark, I'm sorry. Thank you, Mark. We're going to go to Paul.
[01:14:25.660 --> 01:14:26.660]  You, sir.
[01:14:26.660 --> 01:14:29.580]  Paul to Mark. I've had everything backwards today.
[01:14:29.580 --> 01:14:30.580]  Yes, you have.
[01:14:30.580 --> 01:14:38.340]  Okay. Thank you, Mark. We're going to Paul in Texas. Hello, Paul. What do you have for
[01:14:38.340 --> 01:14:52.340]  us today? Hello, Paul. Did we put you to sleep? Okay. It looks like we have lost Paul. I'll
[01:14:52.340 --> 01:15:02.700]  go back to him next. Okay. We're going to Deliverance in Oregon. Hello, Ms. Deliverance.
[01:15:02.700 --> 01:15:05.860]  Hey, how are you?
[01:15:05.860 --> 01:15:09.260]  I am good. I don't care what everybody says.
[01:15:09.260 --> 01:15:11.460]  Don't believe in.
[01:15:11.460 --> 01:15:18.380]  Well, hey, I have just a couple of things I wanted to run by you. I was looking, had
[01:15:18.380 --> 01:15:25.180]  a chance to look over some of the original deed that I signed, well, the last deed I
[01:15:25.180 --> 01:15:27.380]  signed with my-
[01:15:27.380 --> 01:15:36.540]  Okay. Okay. Hold on. Hold on, Deliverance. This is an issue where they were foreclosed
[01:15:36.540 --> 01:15:50.740]  on in, what, 2010 or nine? 2010. Okay. And then 2012, the bank on its own rescinded the
[01:15:50.740 --> 01:15:51.740]  foreclosure.
[01:15:51.740 --> 01:15:52.740]  Yes.
[01:15:52.740 --> 01:15:58.300]  And now they're coming back to foreclose again. Well, I analyzed the documentation and figured
[01:15:58.300 --> 01:16:07.100]  out why they rescinded the foreclosure. Recon Trust did the foreclosure, but Recon Trust
[01:16:07.100 --> 01:16:10.580]  was never properly appointed as the trustee.
[01:16:10.580 --> 01:16:11.580]  Right.
[01:16:11.580 --> 01:16:19.140]  So somebody must have caught it. And I think, you know, in looking at these, and I have
[01:16:19.140 --> 01:16:25.980]  a few other similar cases where banks have voluntarily, or su espante, whatever you would
[01:16:25.980 --> 01:16:33.540]  call it, rescinded foreclosures just out of the clear blue sky, and then reforeclosed.
[01:16:33.540 --> 01:16:38.700]  And I think what they're getting is a lot of lawyers digging through the records, finding
[01:16:38.700 --> 01:16:44.740]  the garbage in the records, going to the person who is mistreated, getting them as clients
[01:16:44.740 --> 01:16:49.500]  and coming back and suing the crapola out of the banks. So they're going in trying to
[01:16:49.500 --> 01:16:54.260]  preemptively fix the problem. And when you sit back on the other side, you will explain
[01:16:54.260 --> 01:17:00.860]  why that's not going to work. This is Randy Kelton. We'll be right back.
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[01:19:24.340 --> 01:19:43.060]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, Steve Skidmore, Rue Blah Radio. You got it
[01:19:43.060 --> 01:19:51.860]  right that time. Proud of you. I'm working on it. We're talking to Deliverance in Oregon,
[01:19:51.860 --> 01:19:56.580]  and I seem to hear banjos in the background. That's what I thought when I saw Deliverance
[01:19:56.580 --> 01:20:05.460]  on the call screen. I thought, oh my God, I really want to pull 10 on that grenade. Okay.
[01:20:05.460 --> 01:20:10.900]  So what I was saying when we were going out is I believe that the lawyers are beginning
[01:20:10.900 --> 01:20:17.100]  to catch on to this and are digging into records and going back and suing the banks after the
[01:20:17.100 --> 01:20:26.180]  facts. So they came back and we are now, as soon as they rescinded the foreclosure, they
[01:20:26.180 --> 01:20:35.180]  appointed Recon Trust as the substitute trustee and started back into re-foreclose. They rescinded
[01:20:35.180 --> 01:20:41.100]  the foreclosure. The only thing I can tell is in order to get the bogus foreclosure off
[01:20:41.100 --> 01:20:47.540]  the books and they're trying to fix it, the problem is in rescinding the foreclosure,
[01:20:47.540 --> 01:20:52.100]  that's tantamount to admission that the first one was faulty.
[01:20:52.100 --> 01:20:53.100]  Right.
[01:20:53.100 --> 01:20:54.100]  Yeah.
[01:20:54.100 --> 01:21:02.100]  So was it an NLD that they rescinded or how did they rescind the action? What documents
[01:21:02.100 --> 01:21:03.100]  did they rescind?
[01:21:03.100 --> 01:21:14.100]  It says they rescinded, here we go, a rescindion of notice as default.
[01:21:14.100 --> 01:21:17.100]  An election to sell under a deed of trust.
[01:21:17.100 --> 01:21:18.100]  Deed of trust.
[01:21:18.100 --> 01:21:19.100]  And withdrawal.
[01:21:19.100 --> 01:21:25.100]  Yeah, they specifically rescinded everything. There was a document for the deed of trust,
[01:21:25.100 --> 01:21:29.100]  for the notice of default, for there was something else in there.
[01:21:29.100 --> 01:21:32.100]  So they tried to erase it and start from scratch.
[01:21:32.100 --> 01:21:38.100]  Right, because normally what they do is they do an assignment, substitution of trustee,
[01:21:38.100 --> 01:21:45.100]  then they do the notice of default. And then normally then they do a second assignment,
[01:21:45.100 --> 01:21:51.100]  second substitution of trustee, then a second notice of default. And you go back to the
[01:21:51.100 --> 01:21:57.100]  original assignment, invalidate the first assignment, which invalidates all subsequent
[01:21:57.100 --> 01:22:02.100]  assignments. No, that's not where we're going. They foreclosed.
[01:22:02.100 --> 01:22:03.100]  They did foreclose.
[01:22:03.100 --> 01:22:11.100]  The trustee who did the foreclosure was never assigned. So they rescinded that foreclosure
[01:22:11.100 --> 01:22:15.100]  two years later after Deliverance had been out of the property for two years.
[01:22:15.100 --> 01:22:16.100]  Oh my gosh.
[01:22:16.100 --> 01:22:26.100]  Then they rescinded it. Guys, that's scary business. And Deliverance, I just talked to
[01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:36.100]  a contractor yesterday. He estimated on the order of $200,000 in damage to the property
[01:22:36.100 --> 01:22:46.100]  primarily because there was shoddy work done on the property. And from talking to the
[01:22:46.100 --> 01:22:56.100]  contractor, what I believe occurred is the bank foreclosed on the property. The property
[01:22:56.100 --> 01:23:06.100]  became empty. So they hired a property management firm. And then the property management firm,
[01:23:06.100 --> 01:23:11.100]  good chance they owned a construction company where they went down and hired a bunch of
[01:23:11.100 --> 01:23:18.100]  day laborers, sent them in there to do a bunch of stuff and then build the bank for it.
[01:23:18.100 --> 01:23:19.100]  Exactly.
[01:23:19.100 --> 01:23:22.100]  The problem is they didn't do it right. Go ahead, Deliverance.
[01:23:22.100 --> 01:23:27.100]  Oh yeah, I was saying that's actually exactly what happened. I looked up the company and
[01:23:27.100 --> 01:23:34.100]  they're a nationwide company and they do that for all of the banks.
[01:23:34.100 --> 01:23:43.100]  This would be wonderful. You got this company that did the work, didn't pull permits, did
[01:23:43.100 --> 01:23:50.100]  improper work. They removed a copper grounding lug and replaced it with an aluminum lug and
[01:23:50.100 --> 01:23:53.100]  all kinds of stuff.
[01:23:53.100 --> 01:23:55.100]  More than aluminum.
[01:23:55.100 --> 01:24:01.100]  Exactly. They're coming in profit taking and they're hiring people who are non skilled
[01:24:01.100 --> 01:24:07.100]  labor and building the bank for skilled labor prices and they're doing this shoddy work.
[01:24:07.100 --> 01:24:14.100]  Now the property belongs to Deliverance again. It's hers.
[01:24:14.100 --> 01:24:16.100]  They reconveyed it back to her?
[01:24:16.100 --> 01:24:21.100]  Yes, they did. I'm telling you, they backed the whole thing up. They're starting all over
[01:24:21.100 --> 01:24:25.100]  again because I'm going to go back in tomorrow. I got a question.
[01:24:25.100 --> 01:24:28.100]  Did they release the obligation on note?
[01:24:28.100 --> 01:24:29.100]  No.
[01:24:29.100 --> 01:24:39.100]  They just undid the foreclosure. They released the property back to them and as soon as they
[01:24:39.100 --> 01:24:45.100]  rescinded the foreclosure, they appointed Recon Trust as substitute trustees.
[01:24:45.100 --> 01:24:47.100]  Is this property vacant right now?
[01:24:47.100 --> 01:24:56.100]  Yes, we were actually going to move back in. We reheat it and put a few items in there
[01:24:56.100 --> 01:25:01.100]  and we were getting ready to move back and then the bank came and reheat the property,
[01:25:01.100 --> 01:25:04.100]  the whole thing again.
[01:25:04.100 --> 01:25:10.100]  Yeah, but that's okay. They see the property appears to be empty, they change the locks.
[01:25:10.100 --> 01:25:16.100]  I can do that. They had a good chance they hired a new management company.
[01:25:16.100 --> 01:25:21.100]  Right, but they're going to have to refile all new docs back in the court in order to redo it.
[01:25:21.100 --> 01:25:27.100]  They're going to have to do another assignment, another SOT and another NOD in order to get the foreclosure.
[01:25:27.100 --> 01:25:35.100]  Yeah, they're in the process of doing that now and now we're preparing, I'm preparing them an analysis
[01:25:35.100 --> 01:25:44.100]  of the documentation and we go back and claim all of the harms. Now they have opportunity to cure.
[01:25:44.100 --> 01:25:54.100]  So we say, okay, you threw us out of the property and property so bad that you had to rescind it.
[01:25:54.100 --> 01:26:00.100]  We were forced out for two years and cost all of this mental anguish and all this money
[01:26:00.100 --> 01:26:03.100]  to have to live somewhere else when we owned the property.
[01:26:03.100 --> 01:26:11.100]  You did all this damage to the property and now we have it back and we have an opportunity to cure.
[01:26:11.100 --> 01:26:15.100]  The problem is you caused us so much harm.
[01:26:15.100 --> 01:26:17.100]  Damage federal courts.
[01:26:17.100 --> 01:26:25.100]  That we're not able to cure because now we have to spend 200,000 just to bring the property back up
[01:26:25.100 --> 01:26:32.100]  to a livable condition and then you're asking us to cure this default on top of that.
[01:26:32.100 --> 01:26:39.100]  The claim we have against you is greater than the amount to cure.
[01:26:39.100 --> 01:26:51.100]  So you file an action in the court to recover all of the harm and claim cure of default by set off.
[01:26:51.100 --> 01:26:54.100]  I was going to say you can do an offset recoup.
[01:26:54.100 --> 01:27:02.100]  So what we want to do is go to the bank and say, okay, guys, here's the deal.
[01:27:02.100 --> 01:27:05.100]  We got this claim against you. It's a whopper.
[01:27:05.100 --> 01:27:09.100]  And we're moving back into the property.
[01:27:09.100 --> 01:27:12.100]  We're going to stay in there because you're not going to get a second foreclosure.
[01:27:12.100 --> 01:27:16.100]  The time we put you in the courts, we're going to keep you in there until we both get old.
[01:27:16.100 --> 01:27:30.100]  What we want you to do is sell us the note for the amount that you still have in the note
[01:27:30.100 --> 01:27:36.100]  less the amount of harm you've caused us.
[01:27:36.100 --> 01:27:43.100]  And the amount of harm you've caused us is going to be greater than the amount you have left in the note.
[01:27:43.100 --> 01:27:51.100]  So you write the note over to us and walk away and we'll drop our suit
[01:27:51.100 --> 01:28:01.100]  and write you a release of claim and we won't cost you three times the amount of the property in lawyer fees.
[01:28:01.100 --> 01:28:07.100]  And we'll write a release of claim.
[01:28:07.100 --> 01:28:10.100]  How does that sound, Deliverance?
[01:28:10.100 --> 01:28:13.100]  It sounds good.
[01:28:13.100 --> 01:28:20.100]  I didn't know if I should tell you this, but, you know, when they reassigned the deed of trust in 2012,
[01:28:20.100 --> 01:28:26.100]  they included J&R lending, which, like I told you before, is no longer in business.
[01:28:26.100 --> 01:28:35.100]  So they're saying that they're a nominee for J&R lending, and they're assigning the deed to...
[01:28:35.100 --> 01:28:38.100]  Wait, no, J&R lenders are still in business.
[01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:40.100]  That's checked.
[01:28:40.100 --> 01:28:44.100]  Ah, he said that they were bankrupt.
[01:28:44.100 --> 01:28:46.100]  They might be bankrupt.
[01:28:46.100 --> 01:28:47.100]  They're still in business.
[01:28:47.100 --> 01:28:54.100]  Then they might have recovered from bankruptcy, but I found J&R lending.
[01:28:54.100 --> 01:28:56.100]  Really?
[01:28:56.100 --> 01:28:57.100]  Yes.
[01:28:57.100 --> 01:28:59.100]  That's air open?
[01:28:59.100 --> 01:29:02.100]  That would have been a nice addition, but we're not going to need it.
[01:29:02.100 --> 01:29:04.100]  You have enough harm.
[01:29:04.100 --> 01:29:05.100]  Right.
[01:29:05.100 --> 01:29:13.100]  Just by the fact, you know, everything that it cost you to live these last two years, that's all a claim.
[01:29:13.100 --> 01:29:15.100]  And it's a claim in triplicate.
[01:29:15.100 --> 01:29:16.100]  Yep.
[01:29:16.100 --> 01:29:23.100]  But obviously, they already have admission that the foreclosure was wrongful,
[01:29:23.100 --> 01:29:26.100]  because they rescinded it themselves.
[01:29:26.100 --> 01:29:32.100]  So you go back, whatever it's cost you to live these last two years and all the mental anguish,
[01:29:32.100 --> 01:29:35.100]  I bet you've lost 50 pounds.
[01:29:35.100 --> 01:29:38.100]  I can tell by how small your voice sounds.
[01:29:38.100 --> 01:29:42.100]  And all this is just devastating.
[01:29:42.100 --> 01:29:44.100]  We claim all that in triplicate.
[01:29:44.100 --> 01:29:49.100]  Hang on, this is Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Joe.
[01:29:49.100 --> 01:29:51.100]  And the rest of us.
[01:29:51.100 --> 01:30:00.100]  Steve the Chunk, Rue La Radio, I call it nothing, 512-646-90.
[01:30:00.100 --> 01:30:05.100]  Attention, everyone who gains a few pounds each winter.
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[01:33:01.100 --> 01:33:11.100]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[01:33:11.100 --> 01:33:19.100]  I see it too, I see it too.
[01:33:19.100 --> 01:33:23.100]  The other time, the other time, the other time.
[01:33:23.100 --> 01:33:26.100]  I see tools of ingenuity,
[01:33:26.100 --> 01:33:30.100]  the use against the work of love and equity.
[01:33:30.100 --> 01:33:32.100]  Tools of massive capability,
[01:33:32.100 --> 01:33:35.100]  available for all eternity.
[01:33:35.100 --> 01:33:38.100]  They come from natural amenities,
[01:33:38.100 --> 01:33:42.100]  let's step by the roots of authenticity.
[01:33:42.100 --> 01:33:44.100]  Tools of regal dignity,
[01:33:44.100 --> 01:33:47.100]  rebuild the crime of humanity.
[01:33:47.100 --> 01:33:49.100]  Okay, we are back.
[01:33:49.100 --> 01:33:53.100]  Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Steve Skidmore,
[01:33:53.100 --> 01:33:56.100]  Joe Esquivel, Rue Blah Radio,
[01:33:56.100 --> 01:33:59.100]  anybody else you'd like to name?
[01:33:59.100 --> 01:34:03.100]  Jerry, but he's not listening, Chris.
[01:34:03.100 --> 01:34:06.100]  He's a producer, he doesn't count.
[01:34:06.100 --> 01:34:12.100]  Okay, we're talking to Deliverance in Oregon.
[01:34:12.100 --> 01:34:14.100]  Okay, Deliverance, so we did a lot of talking,
[01:34:14.100 --> 01:34:19.100]  we didn't give you an opportunity to ask a question.
[01:34:19.100 --> 01:34:24.100]  Well, I was just wondering if on the original deed that I did,
[01:34:24.100 --> 01:34:29.100]  that we signed, it had MERS as the beneficiary,
[01:34:29.100 --> 01:34:33.100]  and do you think that that's why MERS did not foreclose,
[01:34:33.100 --> 01:34:37.100]  would have been like a conflict of interest or something like that?
[01:34:37.100 --> 01:34:42.100]  No, MERS got hammered by the Oregon courts.
[01:34:42.100 --> 01:34:44.100]  I don't think MERS, you know,
[01:34:44.100 --> 01:34:48.100]  yeah, they're not going to do any foreclosures up there.
[01:34:48.100 --> 01:34:54.100]  That was one of the big rulings against MERS was out of Oregon.
[01:34:54.100 --> 01:34:59.100]  So, they got clobbered pretty good.
[01:34:59.100 --> 01:35:05.100]  So, in looking at your stuff, it is absolutely clear what,
[01:35:05.100 --> 01:35:09.100]  that there was a specific problem,
[01:35:09.100 --> 01:35:13.100]  and that was the failure to appoint Recon Trust.
[01:35:13.100 --> 01:35:18.100]  Recon Trust just appeared and did the foreclosure.
[01:35:18.100 --> 01:35:22.100]  So, you get to go back and sue the trustee.
[01:35:22.100 --> 01:35:27.100]  The trustee sold the property and they never owned it to start with.
[01:35:27.100 --> 01:35:35.100]  You get to sue whoever rescinded the foreclosure,
[01:35:35.100 --> 01:35:42.100]  and you get to sue them for all of the harm they've caused you and triplicate.
[01:35:42.100 --> 01:35:46.100]  Whether they knew it was wrongful or not at the time is not relevant.
[01:35:46.100 --> 01:35:54.100]  They had imputed knowledge that Recon Trust was never a property appointed.
[01:35:54.100 --> 01:35:59.100]  So, if the bank bought it back from Recon Trust,
[01:35:59.100 --> 01:36:07.100]  then the bank cannot claim they didn't know that they never appointed Recon Trust.
[01:36:07.100 --> 01:36:11.100]  So, everybody's swimming around in this same soup,
[01:36:11.100 --> 01:36:15.100]  and they all got pretty deep pockets and you don't care who you're getting from.
[01:36:15.100 --> 01:36:19.100]  And when you start doing this, you know, we filed a couple,
[01:36:19.100 --> 01:36:25.100]  and trespassed to Triton and renamed the trustee and a couple others,
[01:36:25.100 --> 01:36:36.100]  and we got one where there was MERS, the trustee, and the bank.
[01:36:36.100 --> 01:36:40.100]  The bank filed a removal.
[01:36:40.100 --> 01:36:47.100]  The MERS and the trustee did not concur in the removal,
[01:36:47.100 --> 01:36:50.100]  and they both filed a Rule 12,
[01:36:50.100 --> 01:36:54.100]  but we're going to maintain that the removal couldn't happen
[01:36:54.100 --> 01:36:58.100]  because these two didn't agree to it.
[01:36:58.100 --> 01:37:03.100]  The only reason they can have for not agreeing to it
[01:37:03.100 --> 01:37:07.100]  would be that they weren't properly served,
[01:37:07.100 --> 01:37:12.100]  and then they have within 30 days to agree to it.
[01:37:12.100 --> 01:37:15.100]  But they both filed a Rule 12 motion in the federal court,
[01:37:15.100 --> 01:37:19.100]  so they waived any question of service.
[01:37:19.100 --> 01:37:25.100]  And since the federal court could not hold any jurisdiction
[01:37:25.100 --> 01:37:29.100]  because only one party agreed to the removal,
[01:37:29.100 --> 01:37:34.100]  they should have filed an answer in the state.
[01:37:34.100 --> 01:37:35.100]  We bring it back to this.
[01:37:35.100 --> 01:37:43.100]  Okay, a Rule 12 motion will take, in effect, will take the place of an answer.
[01:37:43.100 --> 01:37:45.100]  It will act as the answer.
[01:37:45.100 --> 01:37:51.100]  If they lose the Rule 12, then they've got 21 days to file an answer.
[01:37:51.100 --> 01:37:55.100]  But here, they didn't concur to the removal,
[01:37:55.100 --> 01:37:58.100]  so the removal was insufficient.
[01:37:58.100 --> 01:38:01.100]  It never happened.
[01:38:01.100 --> 01:38:04.100]  So we hope we can get things like this.
[01:38:04.100 --> 01:38:12.100]  These guys, they just don't seem to be the sharpest knives in the drawer.
[01:38:12.100 --> 01:38:15.100]  And they miss these things.
[01:38:15.100 --> 01:38:31.100]  And the statute, the change in law I mentioned earlier, that is a big deal.
[01:38:31.100 --> 01:38:37.100]  Even if the removal had been done properly,
[01:38:37.100 --> 01:38:42.100]  this particular one was a trespass to try title.
[01:38:42.100 --> 01:38:48.100]  The only grounds for removal was diversity of jurisdiction.
[01:38:48.100 --> 01:38:54.100]  And diversity of jurisdiction on state claims don't get it anymore.
[01:38:54.100 --> 01:39:00.100]  It used to be if you had a state claim against someone out of the state,
[01:39:00.100 --> 01:39:03.100]  then they could remove it to the Fed.
[01:39:03.100 --> 01:39:11.100]  What this one says is while they can remove it to the Fed, it has to return.
[01:39:11.100 --> 01:39:20.100]  The trial judge has to sever the state claims and remand them back.
[01:39:20.100 --> 01:39:25.100]  Procedure for removal, I'm trying to find the right spot here.
[01:39:25.100 --> 01:39:28.100]  Each dividend has 30 days.
[01:39:28.100 --> 01:39:34.100]  In the next break, I'll find it and read that when we come back.
[01:39:34.100 --> 01:39:42.100]  But if we can get them to violate some of these things that we know are there,
[01:39:42.100 --> 01:39:47.100]  that when you make your claim and file suit against them,
[01:39:47.100 --> 01:39:52.100]  make sure if you have a lawyer to help you with it, and I suggest you do,
[01:39:52.100 --> 01:39:55.100]  he'll be worth it for the extra money he'll get.
[01:39:55.100 --> 01:39:58.100]  There's lots of money floating around here.
[01:39:58.100 --> 01:40:03.100]  Make sure that the lawyer is extremely careful to make no federal claims,
[01:40:03.100 --> 01:40:07.100]  leave nothing for the federal court.
[01:40:07.100 --> 01:40:16.100]  If the lawyer is subsequently removed, you get to land on them like a ton of bricks.
[01:40:16.100 --> 01:40:18.100]  Okay.
[01:40:18.100 --> 01:40:27.100]  So of all of those I've looked at in a long time, yours is one of the better situations.
[01:40:27.100 --> 01:40:31.100]  You've got a really good shot at these guys.
[01:40:31.100 --> 01:40:35.100]  Let me give you an admonition.
[01:40:35.100 --> 01:40:43.100]  The courts really don't like causing the banks to lose these kinds of cases.
[01:40:43.100 --> 01:40:52.100]  So just because you have the facts and the law on your side don't mean you're going to win.
[01:40:52.100 --> 01:41:02.100]  So the admonition is decide for you what would be an equitable and positive outcome.
[01:41:02.100 --> 01:41:07.100]  Write that down somewhere and never forget it.
[01:41:07.100 --> 01:41:15.100]  What is the least amount that you think would be fair or would be enough
[01:41:15.100 --> 01:41:20.100]  that you'd be willing to stop all this fighting?
[01:41:20.100 --> 01:41:25.100]  Write it down because when you get in a fight, you get angry, you get frustrated,
[01:41:25.100 --> 01:41:28.100]  the price goes up if you're not careful.
[01:41:28.100 --> 01:41:32.100]  You lose sight of the prize because you get too focused on the fight.
[01:41:32.100 --> 01:41:34.100]  Write that down.
[01:41:34.100 --> 01:41:39.100]  Instead of trying to craft a case where you will win in the end,
[01:41:39.100 --> 01:41:48.100]  craft a case that you can use to negotiate a deal that will get you to your outcome.
[01:41:48.100 --> 01:41:50.100]  Does that make sense?
[01:41:50.100 --> 01:41:52.100]  Deliverance.
[01:41:52.100 --> 01:41:59.100]  Yes, and I...
[01:41:59.100 --> 01:42:03.100]  Yeah, that is the only way you're going to win this.
[01:42:03.100 --> 01:42:10.100]  Otherwise, they'll keep you in court until you get old and just drive you crazy with the stress.
[01:42:10.100 --> 01:42:12.100]  And they'll beat you with procedure.
[01:42:12.100 --> 01:42:18.100]  Yeah, and if you're not worried about that, you're trying to make a deal.
[01:42:18.100 --> 01:42:23.100]  You keep going to the court and apologizing for having to take this action.
[01:42:23.100 --> 01:42:25.100]  We tried to negotiate with these people.
[01:42:25.100 --> 01:42:29.100]  They won't negotiate in good faith, so I have to keep pursuing this.
[01:42:29.100 --> 01:42:34.100]  The judge is going to get annoyed at them because he'd rather be out playing golf.
[01:42:34.100 --> 01:42:40.100]  Now, that may not be right, but that's how it works in the real world you and I live in.
[01:42:40.100 --> 01:42:47.100]  That's what I mean when I say you'll never win your case simply because you have the law and the facts on your side.
[01:42:47.100 --> 01:42:55.100]  You will win the case if you have the politics on your side and all politics is local.
[01:42:55.100 --> 01:43:04.100]  If you can get the judge PO'd at the lawyers, you get the politics moving around to your side.
[01:43:04.100 --> 01:43:06.100]  And this is what we want to do.
[01:43:06.100 --> 01:43:09.100]  Go ahead.
[01:43:09.100 --> 01:43:11.100]  Oh, no, I was agreeing with you.
[01:43:11.100 --> 01:43:20.100]  Yeah, I understand what you're saying, and I can almost feel them afraid of me.
[01:43:20.100 --> 01:43:22.100]  Oh, they should be.
[01:43:22.100 --> 01:43:24.100]  They have a problem.
[01:43:24.100 --> 01:43:26.100]  Let's stop big time.
[01:43:26.100 --> 01:43:27.100]  Yeah.
[01:43:27.100 --> 01:43:28.100]  And you caught them.
[01:43:28.100 --> 01:43:29.100]  You caught them.
[01:43:29.100 --> 01:43:30.100]  Okay, hang on.
[01:43:30.100 --> 01:43:31.100]  We're about to go to break.
[01:43:31.100 --> 01:43:40.100]  This is Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens, Joe Esquivel, Steve the Chump.
[01:43:40.100 --> 01:43:41.100]  Call in numbers.
[01:43:41.100 --> 01:43:44.100]  Don't forget I know you live, Randy.
[01:43:44.100 --> 01:43:45.100]  Okay.
[01:43:45.100 --> 01:43:46.100]  Okay.
[01:43:46.100 --> 01:43:50.100]  Paul, if you're still there, we'll try to pick you up on the other side.
[01:43:50.100 --> 01:44:00.100]  We'll be right back.
[01:44:00.100 --> 01:44:03.100]  You feel tired when talking about important topics like money and politics?
[01:44:03.100 --> 01:44:04.100]  Sorry.
[01:44:04.100 --> 01:44:07.100]  Are you confused by words like the Constitution or the Federal Reserve?
[01:44:07.100 --> 01:44:08.100]  What?
[01:44:08.100 --> 01:44:12.100]  If so, you may be diagnosed with the deadliest disease known today, stupidity.
[01:44:12.100 --> 01:44:16.100]  Hi, my name is Steve Holt, and like millions of other Americans,
[01:44:16.100 --> 01:44:19.100]  I was diagnosed with stupidity at an early age.
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[01:44:22.100 --> 01:44:25.100]  is found in almost every home in America, the television.
[01:44:25.100 --> 01:44:29.100]  Unfortunately, that puts most Americans at risk of catching stupidity.
[01:44:29.100 --> 01:44:30.100]  But there is hope.
[01:44:30.100 --> 01:44:32.100]  The staff at Brave New Books have helped me
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[01:44:39.100 --> 01:44:43.100]  and watching educational documentaries without feeling tired or uninterested.
[01:44:43.100 --> 01:44:46.100]  So if you or anybody you know suffers from stupidity,
[01:44:46.100 --> 01:44:50.100]  then you need to call 512-480-2503
[01:44:50.100 --> 01:44:54.100]  or visit them in 1904 Guadalupe or bravenewbookstore.com.
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[01:44:56.100 --> 01:44:58.100]  may include discernment in enlarged vocabulary
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[01:45:00.100 --> 01:45:04.100]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[01:45:56.100 --> 01:46:01.100]  or call toll-free, 866-LAW-EZ.
[01:46:01.100 --> 01:46:30.100]  MUSIC
[01:46:30.100 --> 01:46:32.100]  Okay, we are back.
[01:46:32.100 --> 01:46:35.100]  Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Rule of Law Radio,
[01:46:35.100 --> 01:46:37.100]  and we're talking to Deliverance.
[01:46:37.100 --> 01:46:40.100]  Deliverance, did we have anything else for you?
[01:46:40.100 --> 01:46:45.100]  I just was wondering if any of you guys know anybody in Oregon
[01:46:45.100 --> 01:46:54.100]  that you would recommend for legal assistance, like a lawyer or any...
[01:46:54.100 --> 01:46:59.100]  Joe, do you know any lawyers in Oregon?
[01:46:59.100 --> 01:47:00.100]  No.
[01:47:00.100 --> 01:47:03.100]  I don't either.
[01:47:03.100 --> 01:47:05.100]  I'll tell you what, if Deliverance...
[01:47:05.100 --> 01:47:09.100]  I knew one, but he can only come out at night.
[01:47:09.100 --> 01:47:16.100]  Right. If Deliverance has any attorneys, I'd be glad to talk to them regarding...
[01:47:16.100 --> 01:47:22.100]  I'll tell you what, Deliverance, I might have somebody there in Oregon.
[01:47:22.100 --> 01:47:26.100]  Send Randy an email, and Randy, if you would forward that to me,
[01:47:26.100 --> 01:47:29.100]  I will give contact information that way.
[01:47:29.100 --> 01:47:30.100]  I will do that.
[01:47:30.100 --> 01:47:31.100]  Okay.
[01:47:31.100 --> 01:47:33.100]  Oh, thank you.
[01:47:33.100 --> 01:47:40.100]  Sure, I'll have to do some digging, but I've got a real sharp guy up there in Oregon.
[01:47:40.100 --> 01:47:44.100]  I don't know if he's got a bar card, but he can certainly assist you.
[01:47:44.100 --> 01:47:46.100]  Okay, great.
[01:47:46.100 --> 01:47:48.100]  And I guess that's it.
[01:47:48.100 --> 01:47:50.100]  Randy, I'm going to email you.
[01:47:50.100 --> 01:47:54.100]  My dad's Skype, so on Sunday we can Skype.
[01:47:54.100 --> 01:47:55.100]  Okay, wonderful.
[01:47:55.100 --> 01:47:56.100]  Okay, good.
[01:47:56.100 --> 01:47:58.100]  Okay, thank you guys.
[01:47:58.100 --> 01:47:59.100]  Thank you, Deliverance.
[01:47:59.100 --> 01:48:00.100]  Thank you, Deliverance.
[01:48:00.100 --> 01:48:04.100]  Now we're going to go back to Paul in Texas.
[01:48:04.100 --> 01:48:07.100]  Paul, are you there?
[01:48:07.100 --> 01:48:08.100]  Me?
[01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:10.100]  Yeah, did we wake you up?
[01:48:10.100 --> 01:48:12.100]  I think you were asleep last time.
[01:48:12.100 --> 01:48:14.100]  Can you hear me?
[01:48:14.100 --> 01:48:15.100]  We can.
[01:48:15.100 --> 01:48:16.100]  Yeah, we can hear you.
[01:48:16.100 --> 01:48:17.100]  Okay.
[01:48:17.100 --> 01:48:21.100]  I've been waiting for a couple of hours.
[01:48:21.100 --> 01:48:27.100]  We went to you here about 15, 20 minutes ago, but you didn't answer, so we just put you on the back burner.
[01:48:27.100 --> 01:48:28.100]  But you got the floor.
[01:48:28.100 --> 01:48:29.100]  Take it.
[01:48:29.100 --> 01:48:32.100]  It seems like you're talking to me, so I'm going to keep talking.
[01:48:32.100 --> 01:48:33.100]  I can't tell.
[01:48:33.100 --> 01:48:34.100]  Yes, sir.
[01:48:34.100 --> 01:48:35.100]  We're talking to you.
[01:48:35.100 --> 01:48:36.100]  Okay.
[01:48:36.100 --> 01:48:38.100]  I'm in Fort Worth, Texas, right?
[01:48:38.100 --> 01:48:39.100]  Okay.
[01:48:39.100 --> 01:48:41.100]  And I attempted to assert my...
[01:48:41.100 --> 01:48:46.100]  I'm the guy who attempted to assert his Sixth Amendment for prosaic.
[01:48:46.100 --> 01:48:53.100]  Now I came to court to confer with the judge, and he's been dodging me the whole time.
[01:48:53.100 --> 01:48:59.100]  So I ended up telling the deputies that I was being mishandled by a lawyer.
[01:48:59.100 --> 01:49:03.100]  Now what I did is I paid the first lawyer who didn't show up to court the first time.
[01:49:03.100 --> 01:49:05.100]  I paid him a retainer.
[01:49:05.100 --> 01:49:07.100]  That lawyer gave me my money back.
[01:49:07.100 --> 01:49:13.100]  The second lawyer, his name is Gene Beattie, I paid him a retainer for 500 bucks.
[01:49:13.100 --> 01:49:16.100]  He decided to go ahead and text me.
[01:49:16.100 --> 01:49:22.100]  Now the only thing on my itinerary at the time was the 17th of, I think it was December,
[01:49:22.100 --> 01:49:25.100]  to go and talk to the court about something.
[01:49:25.100 --> 01:49:28.100]  They wasn't being very clear, or I didn't know the process.
[01:49:28.100 --> 01:49:34.100]  So anyway, I paid this guy a retainer, and I had an itinerary for the 17th, I believe.
[01:49:34.100 --> 01:49:36.100]  That's the only thing I knew I had.
[01:49:36.100 --> 01:49:41.100]  So after I gave him the retainer, which would have been about November the 29th or the 30th,
[01:49:41.100 --> 01:49:47.100]  four days later, a couple days later, he said, hey, you need to be at court on the 4th of December,
[01:49:47.100 --> 01:49:51.100]  otherwise the judge is going to issue a warrant for you and throw you in jail.
[01:49:51.100 --> 01:49:54.100]  So this is my second lawyer.
[01:49:54.100 --> 01:49:58.100]  So I texted him a couple of times and said, hey, what is the 4th about?
[01:49:58.100 --> 01:50:00.100]  And he never returned my text.
[01:50:00.100 --> 01:50:03.100]  I texted him a couple of times, like I said.
[01:50:03.100 --> 01:50:08.100]  The 4th comes up, and I show up to court, and I'm there.
[01:50:08.100 --> 01:50:11.100]  And I go to the, I haven't had any problems on my record for a long time.
[01:50:11.100 --> 01:50:13.100]  I've been out of trouble for a minute.
[01:50:13.100 --> 01:50:17.100]  So I've been in Texas about four years, haven't had any problems.
[01:50:17.100 --> 01:50:19.100]  So now I have a problem.
[01:50:19.100 --> 01:50:24.100]  And so he says, be there at such and such time, otherwise I'm going to get thrown in jail.
[01:50:24.100 --> 01:50:25.100]  There's going to be a warrant.
[01:50:25.100 --> 01:50:27.100]  So obviously I'm going to show up.
[01:50:27.100 --> 01:50:28.100]  So I did show up.
[01:50:28.100 --> 01:50:29.100]  Okay, okay.
[01:50:29.100 --> 01:50:30.100]  Look, we've only got one segment.
[01:50:30.100 --> 01:50:32.100]  You've got to move a little bit more quickly.
[01:50:32.100 --> 01:50:33.100]  Okay, I'll go quickly.
[01:50:33.100 --> 01:50:34.100]  So I showed up.
[01:50:34.100 --> 01:50:38.100]  What is, first, what is the nature of this cause, civil or criminal?
[01:50:38.100 --> 01:50:40.100]  It's supposed to be criminal.
[01:50:40.100 --> 01:50:41.100]  Okay.
[01:50:41.100 --> 01:50:42.100]  Anyway, so I showed up to court.
[01:50:42.100 --> 01:50:45.100]  The guy didn't, quick, the guy didn't come.
[01:50:45.100 --> 01:50:46.100]  He started going crazy on me.
[01:50:46.100 --> 01:50:48.100]  He's telling me I'm wrong, and I did him wrong and stuff.
[01:50:48.100 --> 01:50:50.100]  I'm calling him from the lobby of the court.
[01:50:50.100 --> 01:50:51.100]  So that's the problem I was having.
[01:50:51.100 --> 01:50:52.100]  I was having problems.
[01:50:52.100 --> 01:50:53.100]  He didn't show up.
[01:50:53.100 --> 01:50:54.100]  So he's making it seem like I'm a bad guy.
[01:50:54.100 --> 01:50:55.100]  So I'm talking to him.
[01:50:55.100 --> 01:50:56.100]  He's telling me he's the one.
[01:50:56.100 --> 01:50:57.100]  Okay.
[01:50:57.100 --> 01:50:59.100]  I got a way to handle this guy.
[01:50:59.100 --> 01:51:00.100]  No, no.
[01:51:00.100 --> 01:51:01.100]  Okay.
[01:51:01.100 --> 01:51:02.100]  He's done.
[01:51:02.100 --> 01:51:03.100]  That guy's done.
[01:51:03.100 --> 01:51:04.100]  No, he's not done.
[01:51:04.100 --> 01:51:05.100]  No, he's not.
[01:51:05.100 --> 01:51:06.100]  Did he give you your money back?
[01:51:06.100 --> 01:51:11.100]  He sent me an email saying he's going to give me the money back, and he didn't do it.
[01:51:11.100 --> 01:51:12.100]  Okay.
[01:51:12.100 --> 01:51:15.100]  So here's the deal.
[01:51:15.100 --> 01:51:23.100]  If a lawyer doesn't respond to you, if he doesn't talk to you, that's a breach of the
[01:51:23.100 --> 01:51:31.100]  American Bar Association model standards which have been adopted for the most part in Texas
[01:51:31.100 --> 01:51:33.100]  by the State Bar Association.
[01:51:33.100 --> 01:51:39.100]  So you can pretty well follow the American Bar Association standards, model standards.
[01:51:39.100 --> 01:51:48.100]  Anything that's a grievable act in the model standards also be grievable in the state.
[01:51:48.100 --> 01:51:52.100]  If the lawyer is rude to you, you can bar grievance.
[01:51:52.100 --> 01:51:55.100]  He was doing all kinds of crazy stuff.
[01:51:55.100 --> 01:51:59.100]  I wouldn't get past him because I have even worse problems now.
[01:51:59.100 --> 01:52:01.100]  Okay.
[01:52:01.100 --> 01:52:02.100]  Wait a minute.
[01:52:02.100 --> 01:52:07.100]  You wasted a lot of time telling us about stuff that really don't matter.
[01:52:07.100 --> 01:52:09.100]  Give us something to work with.
[01:52:09.100 --> 01:52:10.100]  What are your current problems?
[01:52:10.100 --> 01:52:11.100]  Okay.
[01:52:11.100 --> 01:52:12.100]  My current problems.
[01:52:12.100 --> 01:52:13.100]  I'll get past it.
[01:52:13.100 --> 01:52:16.100]  So I just wanted to give you a little background because I wanted to come to court.
[01:52:16.100 --> 01:52:17.100]  You got six minutes.
[01:52:17.100 --> 01:52:18.100]  Okay.
[01:52:18.100 --> 01:52:19.100]  I'll be quick.
[01:52:19.100 --> 01:52:20.100]  Just go to the problem.
[01:52:20.100 --> 01:52:23.100]  Quit explaining about why you're explaining how you're explaining.
[01:52:23.100 --> 01:52:25.100]  Just go to the issue.
[01:52:25.100 --> 01:52:29.100]  So the issue is I was at the court trying to tell the judge about that issue.
[01:52:29.100 --> 01:52:31.100]  And that would have been on the 6th of January.
[01:52:31.100 --> 01:52:32.100]  I got thrown in.
[01:52:32.100 --> 01:52:34.100]  No, that would have been on the 10th of January.
[01:52:34.100 --> 01:52:39.100]  So I got thrown in jail on the 10th of January from the 10th until the 17th.
[01:52:39.100 --> 01:52:40.100]  Now I came to court.
[01:52:40.100 --> 01:52:41.100]  Okay.
[01:52:41.100 --> 01:52:42.100]  Stop.
[01:52:42.100 --> 01:52:43.100]  Why were you thrown in jail?
[01:52:43.100 --> 01:52:44.100]  What was the charge?
[01:52:44.100 --> 01:52:47.100]  They said because I didn't have a lawyer.
[01:52:47.100 --> 01:52:52.100]  Now I had come to court on the 6th like four days prior trying to tell the judge I was having a problem with that guy.
[01:52:52.100 --> 01:52:53.100]  Wait a minute.
[01:52:53.100 --> 01:52:54.100]  Hold on.
[01:52:54.100 --> 01:53:00.100]  They said did the judge order you into jail?
[01:53:00.100 --> 01:53:01.100]  That's what I'm trying to tell you.
[01:53:01.100 --> 01:53:05.100]  I came to court on the 6th and I was attempting to confirm.
[01:53:05.100 --> 01:53:06.100]  Okay.
[01:53:06.100 --> 01:53:07.100]  Look, look.
[01:53:07.100 --> 01:53:09.100]  Stop explaining everything.
[01:53:09.100 --> 01:53:12.100]  Stop arguing everything.
[01:53:12.100 --> 01:53:14.100]  Just tell me what happened.
[01:53:14.100 --> 01:53:15.100]  Okay.
[01:53:15.100 --> 01:53:20.100]  I ended up in jail on the 10th of January until the 17th of January.
[01:53:20.100 --> 01:53:24.100]  They said it was because I didn't have a lawyer.
[01:53:24.100 --> 01:53:29.100]  And I was trying to tell you I came on the 6th to tell him I was having a problem with that guy and he wouldn't come on.
[01:53:29.100 --> 01:53:30.100]  I got all of that part.
[01:53:30.100 --> 01:53:32.100]  I can't help you with this.
[01:53:32.100 --> 01:53:45.100]  If you're trying to argue your issue to me, before I can figure out what kind of questions I need to ask you, I need to understand what the facts are.
[01:53:45.100 --> 01:53:49.100]  Who ordered you put in jail?
[01:53:49.100 --> 01:53:51.100]  Were you in court?
[01:53:51.100 --> 01:53:56.100]  And did the judge say arrest that guy, put him in jail?
[01:53:56.100 --> 01:53:59.100]  I came there on the 10th and the deputy came over and said.
[01:53:59.100 --> 01:54:00.100]  Stop.
[01:54:00.100 --> 01:54:01.100]  Stop.
[01:54:01.100 --> 01:54:03.100]  Stop.
[01:54:03.100 --> 01:54:04.100]  Yes.
[01:54:04.100 --> 01:54:05.100]  No.
[01:54:05.100 --> 01:54:06.100]  I believe so.
[01:54:06.100 --> 01:54:08.100]  They said the judge put him in jail.
[01:54:08.100 --> 01:54:09.100]  Yes.
[01:54:09.100 --> 01:54:10.100]  No.
[01:54:10.100 --> 01:54:11.100]  Stop.
[01:54:11.100 --> 01:54:20.100]  If you're going to try to eliminate, try to handle your issue, you really have to learn how to do some things.
[01:54:20.100 --> 01:54:21.100]  Okay.
[01:54:21.100 --> 01:54:24.100]  Answer a question clearly.
[01:54:24.100 --> 01:54:32.100]  Were you in the courtroom in a hearing and a judge ordered the bailiffs to put you in jail?
[01:54:32.100 --> 01:54:33.100]  Did that happen?
[01:54:33.100 --> 01:54:34.100]  No.
[01:54:34.100 --> 01:54:35.100]  He wouldn't see me.
[01:54:35.100 --> 01:54:36.100]  The bailiffs, I asked him.
[01:54:36.100 --> 01:54:37.100]  Did you?
[01:54:37.100 --> 01:54:38.100]  Okay.
[01:54:38.100 --> 01:54:39.100]  Look.
[01:54:39.100 --> 01:54:40.100]  Yes or no?
[01:54:40.100 --> 01:54:41.100]  No.
[01:54:41.100 --> 01:54:42.100]  What part of that's hard?
[01:54:42.100 --> 01:54:43.100]  It's not hard.
[01:54:43.100 --> 01:54:47.100]  I guess the judge told them to throw me in jail because I asked them, can I see the judge?
[01:54:47.100 --> 01:54:48.100]  Yes, it is hard.
[01:54:48.100 --> 01:54:50.100]  You can't do that.
[01:54:50.100 --> 01:54:51.100]  If the judge.
[01:54:51.100 --> 01:54:54.100]  Were you in court or did they come to get you at the house?
[01:54:54.100 --> 01:54:56.100]  I was in the court.
[01:54:56.100 --> 01:54:57.100]  Okay.
[01:54:57.100 --> 01:54:58.100]  Stop.
[01:54:58.100 --> 01:55:04.100]  Did the judge in front of you tell someone to arrest you?
[01:55:04.100 --> 01:55:08.100]  I have the paper that it said the judge had me thrown in jail.
[01:55:08.100 --> 01:55:10.100]  You can't say yes or no, can you?
[01:55:10.100 --> 01:55:12.100]  I will say yes.
[01:55:12.100 --> 01:55:13.100]  Okay.
[01:55:13.100 --> 01:55:18.100]  Listen, you're going somewhere and I'm trying to get there.
[01:55:18.100 --> 01:55:19.100]  Okay.
[01:55:19.100 --> 01:55:25.100]  You're saying that the judge ordered you to jail, but I'm trying to find out if you actually
[01:55:25.100 --> 01:55:31.100]  know he did that or if somebody else simply told you he did that.
[01:55:31.100 --> 01:55:38.100]  If so, how did he tell you, what kind of legal documentation did he get to support?
[01:55:38.100 --> 01:55:41.100]  We can't get there because you're not answering my questions.
[01:55:41.100 --> 01:55:47.100]  This may be why your lawyers were frustrated with you because they couldn't get information
[01:55:47.100 --> 01:55:48.100]  out of you.
[01:55:48.100 --> 01:55:49.100]  No, trust me.
[01:55:49.100 --> 01:55:56.100]  I never even got to talk to them, but I'm just basically trying to give you information.
[01:55:56.100 --> 01:55:58.100]  I just came to find out.
[01:55:58.100 --> 01:55:59.100]  Okay.
[01:55:59.100 --> 01:56:00.100]  Back to the beginning.
[01:56:00.100 --> 01:56:01.100]  We've got two and a half minutes.
[01:56:01.100 --> 01:56:02.100]  Let's cut to the chase.
[01:56:02.100 --> 01:56:03.100]  Okay.
[01:56:03.100 --> 01:56:07.100]  Were you in court when the judge said arrest that guy?
[01:56:07.100 --> 01:56:08.100]  Allegedly, yes.
[01:56:08.100 --> 01:56:09.100]  I was there.
[01:56:09.100 --> 01:56:12.100]  Let's say yes or no.
[01:56:12.100 --> 01:56:13.100]  Yes.
[01:56:13.100 --> 01:56:14.100]  I take that as a yes.
[01:56:14.100 --> 01:56:15.100]  Let's move forward.
[01:56:15.100 --> 01:56:16.100]  Okay.
[01:56:16.100 --> 01:56:17.100]  No, I got different information.
[01:56:17.100 --> 01:56:23.100]  You said someone came to you and they arrested you and said the judge ordered your arrest.
[01:56:23.100 --> 01:56:24.100]  Is that correct?
[01:56:24.100 --> 01:56:29.100]  Yeah, they came and asked my name and I gave it to them and they went back and said they
[01:56:29.100 --> 01:56:30.100]  talked to the judge and they came.
[01:56:30.100 --> 01:56:31.100]  Okay.
[01:56:31.100 --> 01:56:32.100]  Stop using pronouns.
[01:56:32.100 --> 01:56:33.100]  They.
[01:56:33.100 --> 01:56:34.100]  I have no idea who they was.
[01:56:34.100 --> 01:56:35.100]  Was it a judge?
[01:56:35.100 --> 01:56:36.100]  Was it a lawyer?
[01:56:36.100 --> 01:56:37.100]  Was it a bailiff?
[01:56:37.100 --> 01:56:41.100]  They are the deputies of the court who are always there.
[01:56:41.100 --> 01:56:43.100]  They never change.
[01:56:43.100 --> 01:56:44.100]  Okay.
[01:56:44.100 --> 01:56:48.100]  So were you in the court when they came to you and told you that?
[01:56:48.100 --> 01:56:49.100]  Yes.
[01:56:49.100 --> 01:56:50.100]  Okay.
[01:56:50.100 --> 01:56:51.100]  Was the judge in the court?
[01:56:51.100 --> 01:56:56.100]  He was there first and then he ran to the back and then they went back and then they
[01:56:56.100 --> 01:56:57.100]  came out and got me.
[01:56:57.100 --> 01:56:58.100]  The two deputies.
[01:56:58.100 --> 01:56:59.100]  Okay.
[01:56:59.100 --> 01:57:06.100]  So then we have good evidence that the judge ordered your arrest for being there for not
[01:57:06.100 --> 01:57:07.100]  having a lawyer.
[01:57:07.100 --> 01:57:11.100]  Was this in a actual hearing?
[01:57:11.100 --> 01:57:16.100]  He saw me there after he went to the back.
[01:57:16.100 --> 01:57:17.100]  Okay.
[01:57:17.100 --> 01:57:18.100]  Listen.
[01:57:18.100 --> 01:57:19.100]  Listen.
[01:57:19.100 --> 01:57:20.100]  Stop.
[01:57:20.100 --> 01:57:21.100]  Okay.
[01:57:21.100 --> 01:57:22.100]  Okay.
[01:57:22.100 --> 01:57:30.100]  I muted you because I can't get good information.
[01:57:30.100 --> 01:57:36.100]  If your lawyers are like, if you do this for your lawyers, I can understand they're being
[01:57:36.100 --> 01:57:37.100]  frustrated.
[01:57:37.100 --> 01:57:43.100]  We've been half a segment of me trying to find out what the elements of your arrest
[01:57:43.100 --> 01:57:47.100]  was and I can't get there.
[01:57:47.100 --> 01:57:53.100]  You're talking about the things that happened and I'm talking about elements of law that
[01:57:53.100 --> 01:57:57.100]  I would need to be able to evaluate work on.
[01:57:57.100 --> 01:58:00.100]  You don't know what the elements of law are.
[01:58:00.100 --> 01:58:03.100]  You just know they did bad things to you.
[01:58:03.100 --> 01:58:05.100]  You don't like the way it went.
[01:58:05.100 --> 01:58:11.100]  But in order for me to give you any kind of feedback, I have to walk down the elements
[01:58:11.100 --> 01:58:15.100]  and see which of the elements they missed.
[01:58:15.100 --> 01:58:18.100]  I can't get any of those.
[01:58:18.100 --> 01:58:21.100]  Call us back in next Friday.
[01:58:21.100 --> 01:58:22.100]  Call in earlier.
[01:58:22.100 --> 01:58:25.100]  We start at 8 o'clock.
[01:58:25.100 --> 01:58:30.100]  I can kind of give you some idea of how to talk about these things so that you're more
[01:58:30.100 --> 01:58:31.100]  effective.
[01:58:31.100 --> 01:58:32.100]  Okay.
[01:58:32.100 --> 01:58:40.100]  This is Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Joe Esquivel, Steve Skidmark, our Friday night
[01:58:40.100 --> 01:58:43.100]  for our info marathon.
[01:58:43.100 --> 01:58:50.100]  We will be back next Thursday, 8 o'clock with Deborah and myself.
[01:58:50.100 --> 01:58:56.100]  Bibles for America is offering absolutely free a unique study Bible called the New Testament
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[01:59:02.100 --> 01:59:07.100]  says verse by verse, helping you to know God and to know the meaning of life.
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