[00:00.000 --> 00:09.400]  You're listening to the Liberty Beats, your daily source for Liberty news and activist
[00:09.400 --> 00:10.400]  updates.
[00:10.400 --> 00:11.400]  Online at TheLibertyBeats.com.
[00:11.400 --> 00:20.400]  Don Bush here with your Liberty Beat for Thursday, August 29, 2013.
[00:20.400 --> 00:29.920]  Gold open today at $1,409, silver at $24.20, and bitcoin is trading at $118.73.
[00:29.920 --> 00:33.280]  Sponsor for the Liberty Beat comes from Brave New Books, author's only brick and mortar
[00:33.280 --> 00:36.240]  store here in San Durene 2.0.
[00:36.240 --> 00:38.640]  Online at BraveNewBookstore.com.
[00:38.640 --> 00:42.800]  And from the first annual Parents for Liberty Alternative Education Conference, October
[00:42.800 --> 00:48.920]  12th on UT campus, speakers include Dr. Lawrence Reed, Michael Strong, Dr. Mary Ruart, and
[00:48.920 --> 00:50.400]  John Bush.
[00:50.400 --> 00:53.120]  Information at ParentsForLiberty.org.
[00:53.120 --> 00:54.720]  And now the news.
[00:54.720 --> 00:59.000]  Despite President Obama's declaration on Wednesday that he was certain the Syrian government
[00:59.000 --> 01:03.760]  was responsible for the August 21st chemical attacks in Syria, intelligence officials are
[01:03.760 --> 01:04.880]  not as confident.
[01:04.880 --> 01:10.040]  The Office of the Director for National Intelligence released a report detailing gaps in the U.S.
[01:10.040 --> 01:11.040]  intelligence.
[01:11.040 --> 01:14.320]  Congressional committees are expected to be briefed on evidence by conference call on
[01:14.320 --> 01:15.480]  Thursday.
[01:15.480 --> 01:19.560]  So far, intelligence officials have not been able to locate the exact location of Assad's
[01:19.560 --> 01:21.280]  supposed chemical weapons supply.
[01:21.280 --> 01:25.120]  The United States is not the only official body having trouble finding hard evidence
[01:25.120 --> 01:27.880]  linking the Syrian government to the use of chemical weapons.
[01:27.880 --> 01:32.680]  Vashar Jafar, a Syrian ambassador to the United Nations, stated that the rebels used weapons
[01:32.680 --> 01:35.640]  that they were able to produce with the help of outside powers.
[01:35.640 --> 01:39.880]  The British Parliament will hold a vote Thursday on a motion that would eliminate the possibility
[01:39.880 --> 01:44.200]  of launching an attack until the U.N. weapons inspectors publish their findings to the U.N.
[01:44.200 --> 01:49.160]  Security Council.
[01:49.160 --> 01:54.080]  Liberty activist John Bush was found not guilty yesterday in his trial stemming from a 2010
[01:54.080 --> 01:58.080]  arrest on U.T. campus after he refused to go to the free speech zone while President
[01:58.080 --> 02:00.200]  Barack Obama was in town.
[02:00.200 --> 02:05.180]  Trial lasted from 9 a.m. to 4.30 p.m. and ended when Judge Herb Evans directed the jury
[02:05.180 --> 02:09.720]  to deliver a not guilty verdict after it became clear that the prosecution did not have any
[02:09.720 --> 02:13.400]  evidence showing that an order was actually given by U.T. police.
[02:13.400 --> 02:17.680]  The state of Texas made a fatal mistake when last year they reduced the charges from Class
[02:17.680 --> 02:22.400]  B misdemeanor criminal trespass to Class C misdemeanor willful failure to obey the lawful
[02:22.400 --> 02:23.840]  order of an officer.
[02:23.840 --> 02:28.320]  John refused three years worth of plea deals which led the state to reduce their charges.
[02:28.320 --> 02:32.080]  John believes he has been vindicated and is encouraging others, especially when there
[02:32.080 --> 02:37.920]  is minimal risk to one's freedom, to refuse to take the plea deal and stand on their convictions.
[02:37.920 --> 02:45.160]  Video of the trial will soon be available at thelibertybeat.com.
[02:45.160 --> 02:50.400]  On Wednesday a military jury sentenced a U.S. Army psychiatrist to death for the 2009 shootings
[02:50.400 --> 02:54.160]  at Fort Hood, Texas that killed 13 people and wounded 31 others.
[02:54.160 --> 02:58.560]  Major Nadal Hassan has stated that he committed the crimes in retaliation for the United States
[02:58.560 --> 03:21.280]  wars in the Muslim world.
[03:28.560 --> 03:56.360]  Okay, we are back, Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, Debra Stevens, we've got radio, we're going
[03:56.360 --> 04:02.080]  to start going to calls and we're going to start with Caprice in California.
[04:02.080 --> 04:08.160]  Caprice, thank you for holding on so long, what do you have for us tonight?
[04:08.160 --> 04:19.800]  Hi Randy, my question is, okay I've been fighting foreclosures since 2006 and basically they
[04:19.800 --> 04:28.800]  switched my servicer and then I have Recon Trust in the back here that's filing notice
[04:28.800 --> 04:37.400]  of recession declaration of default on a notice that is not notarized and it says Recon companies
[04:37.400 --> 04:43.400]  as trustee for the beneficiary of MERS, just as you guys were talking about.
[04:43.400 --> 04:44.400]  My question is...
[04:44.400 --> 04:50.000]  Wait a minute, wait a minute, I have, you seem to have started in the middle of something.
[04:50.000 --> 04:56.080]  Okay, remember we're on the radio and most people don't know squat about what's going
[04:56.080 --> 05:00.960]  on here so we need to kind of give them a referential index.
[05:00.960 --> 05:01.960]  Okay.
[05:01.960 --> 05:08.120]  Can you start that again, about halfway through I got lost as to where we were.
[05:08.120 --> 05:17.640]  Okay, I have a servicer that is now nation star, nation star, they are telling me that
[05:17.640 --> 05:27.520]  I owe a certain amount, right, and yet I'm not getting any notices from the county which
[05:27.520 --> 05:29.520]  is Recon Trust.
[05:29.520 --> 05:36.000]  Wait, hold on just a second, Joe can you hear her better than me?
[05:36.000 --> 05:41.160]  Caprice, Caprice you're still breaking up, I do follow what you're saying is that...
[05:41.160 --> 05:46.760]  Well I'm in trouble with the sound, are you on a headset?
[05:46.760 --> 05:49.640]  Is this better now?
[05:49.640 --> 05:51.640]  Okay, keep talking.
[05:51.640 --> 06:00.640]  Okay, I'm kind of confused where I'm at in my loan period, I think I was removed from
[06:00.640 --> 06:04.360]  Recon Trust and they were putting in, they said trustee.
[06:04.360 --> 06:12.880]  Okay, that is one thing you can be sure of, who has standing and the only way you can
[06:12.880 --> 06:21.740]  determine standing is go to the county record and see what has been filed in the record.
[06:21.740 --> 06:32.200]  The only one who can have standing to make a claim is someone who has something in the
[06:32.200 --> 06:35.280]  county record showing that they have the standing.
[06:35.280 --> 06:44.200]  Now that does not mean that the filing in the record is accurate and valid, but so long
[06:44.200 --> 06:51.680]  as it is filed there and hasn't been adjudicated void and of no force and effect, it's presumed
[06:51.680 --> 06:53.440]  to be valid.
[06:53.440 --> 06:57.200]  So have you looked at the documents in the county record?
[06:57.200 --> 07:04.560]  I have and they are to my grandfather that's the seat and I was left, my grandfather left
[07:04.560 --> 07:07.360]  me the house and I live in trust.
[07:07.360 --> 07:14.120]  Okay, is there any filing from the probate court or any filing transferring the property
[07:14.120 --> 07:15.120]  to you?
[07:15.120 --> 07:25.400]  Yes, I assume, well basically to my loan and then they sent me something in 2008 saying
[07:25.400 --> 07:26.400]  that I didn't qualify.
[07:26.400 --> 07:34.240]  Wait a minute, stop, stop, another problem, try not to use any pronouns because I need
[07:34.240 --> 07:44.680]  to know who they actually is, who was the original lender on the deed of trust?
[07:44.680 --> 07:47.720]  First National Lending Services.
[07:47.720 --> 07:56.200]  First National, okay, who is telling you that you owe them money?
[07:56.200 --> 08:00.680]  Nation Star Lending Services.
[08:00.680 --> 08:08.040]  Is Nation Star listed in the county record as receiving an assignment of the deed of
[08:08.040 --> 08:09.040]  trust?
[08:09.040 --> 08:12.040]  No, they aren't.
[08:12.040 --> 08:25.960]  Then you need to send a notice to Nation Star under 3-501 asking them to show you the original
[08:25.960 --> 08:34.720]  debt instrument as construed by 3-501 and show that so that you can look at the document
[08:34.720 --> 08:45.040]  along with all of its assignments or allonges and assignments to include in the allonges
[08:45.040 --> 08:53.680]  to determine a complete chain of negotiation of the instrument from Nation Star to them.
[08:53.680 --> 09:03.440]  When you look at the negotiations, I think we spoke once before you said Nation Star
[09:03.440 --> 09:04.920]  is no longer in business?
[09:04.920 --> 09:09.520]  No, they are in business and I did send them that letter already.
[09:09.520 --> 09:18.400]  Oh, okay, so then as far as you're concerned, the only entity that has any claim is Nation
[09:18.400 --> 09:19.400]  Star.
[09:19.400 --> 09:22.400]  I'm sorry, First National.
[09:22.400 --> 09:27.520]  First National, the one that you got the note with, is that company in business?
[09:27.520 --> 09:28.520]  No, they're not.
[09:28.520 --> 09:29.520]  Any of those country-wide.
[09:29.520 --> 09:30.520]  When did they go out of business?
[09:30.520 --> 09:33.520]  They went out of business in 2008.
[09:33.520 --> 09:34.520]  2008.
[09:34.520 --> 09:35.520]  Okay, here is their problem.
[09:35.520 --> 09:51.040]  Regardless of Merge or all of these others, anyone who would make a claim on the deed
[09:51.040 --> 09:56.720]  of trust, and I know there's a lot of issues about deed of trust and all the others, for
[09:56.720 --> 10:00.240]  the moment I'm only going to talk about deed of trust.
[10:00.240 --> 10:05.840]  For the most part, they will make their claims based on the privileges granted in the deed
[10:05.840 --> 10:07.800]  of trust itself.
[10:07.800 --> 10:18.240]  So as far as that document is concerned, on that document, you promised to pay First National.
[10:18.240 --> 10:21.160]  You did not promise to pay Nation Star.
[10:21.160 --> 10:27.240]  Now, you authorized First National to sell a portion of the note, the entire note, together
[10:27.240 --> 10:29.840]  with this period instrument.
[10:29.840 --> 10:37.160]  Well, in order for anyone else to claim agency standing or capacity, there would have to
[10:37.160 --> 10:47.000]  be in the record some document transferring the interest that you granted to First National
[10:47.000 --> 10:48.760]  to this entity.
[10:48.760 --> 10:49.760]  Okay.
[10:49.760 --> 10:54.240]  If it's not in the record, they don't have a claim.
[10:54.240 --> 10:57.120]  You should not be doing business with them.
[10:57.120 --> 11:05.280]  You should not be contracting with them other than to contract with them for the restricted
[11:05.280 --> 11:08.040]  purpose of determining their standing.
[11:08.040 --> 11:09.040]  Right.
[11:09.040 --> 11:10.040]  Does that make sense?
[11:10.040 --> 11:11.040]  Totally.
[11:11.040 --> 11:12.040]  Totally.
[11:12.040 --> 11:13.040]  That's what I've done.
[11:13.040 --> 11:17.320]  I've written the letter of validation of debit.
[11:17.320 --> 11:18.320]  Okay.
[11:18.320 --> 11:19.320]  Okay.
[11:19.320 --> 11:20.320]  Send that.
[11:20.320 --> 11:21.320]  Send that.
[11:21.320 --> 11:22.320]  Yes.
[11:22.320 --> 11:23.320]  Let me interject for a second.
[11:23.320 --> 11:36.120]  I believe, I need to ask, did you receive a letter from your original servicer stating
[11:36.120 --> 11:41.680]  that Nation Star was your new servicer?
[11:41.680 --> 11:46.960]  I received something from Bank of America stating that they switched me over.
[11:46.960 --> 11:49.000]  Okay.
[11:49.000 --> 11:58.680]  That is where the perceived acknowledgement from Bank of America, Bank of America sold
[11:58.680 --> 12:03.040]  the servicing rights that it had to Nation Star.
[12:03.040 --> 12:05.280]  Now, wait a minute.
[12:05.280 --> 12:06.280]  Hold on.
[12:06.280 --> 12:07.680]  And this is where I was going.
[12:07.680 --> 12:08.680]  Okay.
[12:08.680 --> 12:10.680]  That's a presumption.
[12:10.680 --> 12:11.680]  Yes.
[12:11.680 --> 12:12.680]  Exactly.
[12:12.680 --> 12:13.680]  Yeah.
[12:13.680 --> 12:19.800]  The only thing we know is what is in the public record.
[12:19.800 --> 12:27.440]  I could send you a letter telling you that Nation Star or First National sold its servicing
[12:27.440 --> 12:34.120]  rights to me, and that would carry no more authority than what Bank of America or anybody
[12:34.120 --> 12:41.400]  else is sending you unless you can go look in that public record and see that rights
[12:41.400 --> 12:47.960]  granted by your deed of trust had been properly transferred to some other entity.
[12:47.960 --> 12:52.000]  If it has not, they have no standing.
[12:52.000 --> 12:55.760]  They don't have these rights.
[12:55.760 --> 13:02.360]  These companies tried to turn residential mortgages into a security.
[13:02.360 --> 13:08.000]  They created MERS, and they did all this song and dance and seltzer down your pants, but
[13:08.000 --> 13:12.480]  it just did not fit.
[13:12.480 --> 13:21.600]  Consumer mortgages were a round peg that they were trying to stuff into the square hole.
[13:21.600 --> 13:27.960]  It has aspects to it that doesn't lend itself to a security instrument.
[13:27.960 --> 13:32.040]  So this is where their problem has been, is why they got MERS to try to round out these
[13:32.040 --> 13:34.840]  holes and they could not get it done.
[13:34.840 --> 13:41.800]  So they want you to pay attention to all this documentation they're sending you, and what
[13:41.800 --> 13:46.040]  we say here, never stipulate to anything.
[13:46.040 --> 13:47.040]  Right.
[13:47.040 --> 13:53.360]  I can't even effectively get involved in all of this back and forth, back and forth, because
[13:53.360 --> 14:00.240]  I'm going to say, whoa, let's not fall down that rabbit hole.
[14:00.240 --> 14:01.240]  It's a deep one.
[14:01.240 --> 14:11.000]  Yeah, because if you assume that First Nationals sold its right to Bank of America, maybe they
[14:11.000 --> 14:13.720]  did, and maybe they didn't.
[14:13.720 --> 14:16.520]  We do not know what happened.
[14:16.520 --> 14:28.480]  And since registries have been in place, and Joe will tell you, what was it, 1638, if they
[14:28.480 --> 14:35.720]  tried to put in registries, every country on the planet has these registries.
[14:35.720 --> 14:42.520]  And the purpose is, if you want to buy property, you have to be able to look in that registry
[14:42.520 --> 14:47.440]  and know who has a claim against your property, who in their right mind would buy a piece
[14:47.440 --> 14:53.000]  of property if there could be unregistered claims out there against it.
[14:53.000 --> 14:58.160]  So Bank of America is dancing around, waving their arms, saying they have a claim.
[14:58.160 --> 15:01.800]  You start saying they have a claim, and you say, who the heck are you guys?
[15:01.800 --> 15:08.760]  Well, we found one that's after me, and they're in some hot water, too, from Washington, you
[15:08.760 --> 15:09.760]  know?
[15:09.760 --> 15:13.720]  So there's one saying that there's been a rescission of declaration of default.
[15:13.720 --> 15:19.560]  That was the last thing filed in the county in August 16th, 2013, but it's to my grandfather.
[15:19.560 --> 15:20.560]  It's not to me.
[15:20.560 --> 15:21.560]  OK, wait a minute.
[15:21.560 --> 15:24.400]  A rescission of declaration of default.
[15:24.400 --> 15:25.400]  What default?
[15:25.400 --> 15:26.400]  Who filed it?
[15:26.400 --> 15:27.400]  Defaulted what?
[15:27.400 --> 15:28.400]  By whom?
[15:28.400 --> 15:31.400]  I have no idea what you're talking about.
[15:31.400 --> 15:32.400]  OK.
[15:32.400 --> 15:36.960]  Is this a default that you filed?
[15:36.960 --> 15:40.920]  Did they file a notice of default, and then they rescinded a notice of default?
[15:40.920 --> 15:47.440]  Did they accuse you of defaulting on the deed of trust, or is this one of the defaults that
[15:47.440 --> 15:52.960]  we've been sending out that you filed a notice that the other side has defaulted?
[15:52.960 --> 15:55.520]  I haven't filed anything.
[15:55.520 --> 15:56.520]  I haven't filed anything.
[15:56.520 --> 15:57.520]  OK.
[15:57.520 --> 15:58.520]  You've got to understand.
[15:58.520 --> 15:59.520]  You have to be clear.
[15:59.520 --> 16:00.520]  We can't understand what you're talking about.
[16:00.520 --> 16:06.360]  You use the term V. V means one previously mentioned, but there wasn't one previously
[16:06.360 --> 16:07.360]  mentioned.
[16:07.360 --> 16:08.360]  So we're getting confused here.
[16:08.360 --> 16:14.760]  We're trying to get this sorted so we can state what's, you know, we'll give you our
[16:14.760 --> 16:19.760]  best direction, but we need to be careful that we're not misunderstanding what you're
[16:19.760 --> 16:20.760]  talking about.
[16:20.760 --> 16:22.520]  And I'm not picking on you.
[16:22.520 --> 16:26.800]  We have a lot of people listening, and this is kind of how we try to teach people how
[16:26.800 --> 16:28.640]  to think about these things.
[16:28.640 --> 16:32.720]  In these areas, we have to think very clearly.
[16:32.720 --> 16:35.200]  And V. OK.
[16:35.200 --> 16:36.200]  Hang on, Caprice.
[16:36.200 --> 16:37.200]  We're about to go to break.
[16:37.200 --> 16:38.680]  We will pick this up on the other side.
[16:38.680 --> 16:42.880]  This is Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, Deborah Stevens.
[16:42.880 --> 16:45.240]  We have our radio, our calling number.
[16:45.240 --> 16:46.240]  512-646-1984.
[16:46.240 --> 16:47.240]  Give us a call.
[16:47.240 --> 16:51.880]  We'll be taking your calls for the rest of the night.
[16:51.880 --> 16:54.120]  James Darlene Rosano, we see you there.
[16:54.120 --> 17:00.640]  We will go to you when we get back on the other side.
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[18:49.880 --> 18:58.920]  That's ruleoflawradio.com, or email m-i-c-h-a-e-l-m-i-r-r-a-s at yahoo.com to learn how to stop debt
[18:58.920 --> 18:59.920]  collectors next.
[18:59.920 --> 19:12.800]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, the LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[19:12.800 --> 19:19.040]  Well don't let them get to you, only the father can deliver you, don't let bad mind people
[19:19.040 --> 19:24.040]  hurt you, until they can get behind you.
[19:24.040 --> 19:31.040]  Norman, my friend, Nala Jatchez, come on.
[19:54.040 --> 20:01.040]  He's everything to me, that's why I call him, on top of me and I pray to him, because
[20:01.040 --> 20:06.920]  he's the only one who could answer him, being a business what we can man say him.
[20:06.920 --> 20:07.920]  Okay, we are back.
[20:07.920 --> 20:13.520]  We're here to help Debra Stevens, and we're here with Joe Esquivel, our new Friday Night
[20:13.520 --> 20:14.520]  Show host.
[20:14.520 --> 20:17.720]  Thank goodness he was here today, I sure need him.
[20:17.720 --> 20:24.000]  Okay, Caprice, I'm not trying to be difficult, but we're talking about issues with Morgan
[20:24.000 --> 20:30.280]  Edge, and in order for me to be able to give you good feedback, I have to understand where
[20:30.280 --> 20:35.800]  you're at, and we have a listening audience, and part of the reason they come to us is
[20:35.800 --> 20:42.520]  to give them good information, and here is some information that's sometimes hard to
[20:42.520 --> 20:49.960]  get out, is how to think about these things and organize them in your mind so that when
[20:49.960 --> 20:56.200]  you explain them to someone, it will make sense, and most people who have these issues,
[20:56.200 --> 21:01.600]  you talk to people you know about it, and for the most part, they're polite and they
[21:01.600 --> 21:06.280]  listen attentively, but they don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.
[21:06.280 --> 21:12.360]  So when you go through these issues, they don't know when you're missing referential
[21:12.360 --> 21:13.360]  index.
[21:13.360 --> 21:19.160]  They couldn't follow along anyway, because it's something most people don't deal with
[21:19.160 --> 21:27.640]  for the most part, but here you're talking to people who do understand these issues,
[21:27.640 --> 21:35.080]  and in order to give us information we can use, we need a disciplined approach, and that's
[21:35.080 --> 21:39.240]  primarily what I'm pushing for, and I understand it's difficult.
[21:39.240 --> 21:47.280]  When you've been in a fight for a while, you tend to focus on those things that are immediate
[21:47.280 --> 21:56.400]  and seem to be the most threatening to you, but Joe and I, we're very likely looking for
[21:56.400 --> 22:02.680]  other things that you don't know about, that you don't know enough about the mechanics
[22:02.680 --> 22:07.520]  of how all of these pieces fit together to be able to tell us.
[22:07.520 --> 22:15.320]  So the first thing we need is to understand really precisely where you are.
[22:15.320 --> 22:22.840]  Whenever I work with someone's case, the first thing I want to see is everything that's in
[22:22.840 --> 22:30.760]  the county record, because the county records where all of the claims to the properties
[22:30.760 --> 22:43.240]  originate, and if somebody sends us a letter and gives us this threat or this demand, the
[22:43.240 --> 22:51.000]  tendency is to respond to the threat or the demand, and what Joe and I are going to hear
[22:51.000 --> 22:55.160]  first is what you would call a meta comment.
[22:55.160 --> 23:02.160]  We're not talking about the content of what's going on, we're talking about the context
[23:02.160 --> 23:03.640]  of what's going on.
[23:03.640 --> 23:11.080]  If you ever had the experience, you say something to somebody and instead of responding to what
[23:11.080 --> 23:14.040]  they say, they say, why are you so upset?
[23:14.040 --> 23:19.720]  That's a meta comment, that's not a comment about the content, but about the structure.
[23:19.720 --> 23:27.080]  So first thing in order for us to comment on these guys is we need the structure.
[23:27.080 --> 23:36.000]  In the county record, if there is no assignment to any of these guys, then they are claiming
[23:36.000 --> 23:45.680]  agency to represent a principal with standing in capacity.
[23:45.680 --> 23:54.400]  Standing would mean they would have to be the true bona fide holder of the note, I don't
[23:54.400 --> 24:01.440]  like to say holder in due course, and that's a matter of discipline because there's question
[24:01.440 --> 24:12.720]  about whether a holder of a note in the matter of an obligation created based on a consumer
[24:12.720 --> 24:14.360]  transaction.
[24:14.360 --> 24:22.280]  There is question as under the cost of the Federal Trades Commission's Holder Rule, there
[24:22.280 --> 24:30.240]  can technically be no holder in due course because a holder in due course holds the debt
[24:30.240 --> 24:39.480]  without any responsibility for any fraud that may have occurred in the creation of the debt.
[24:39.480 --> 24:44.760]  If someone writes you a check, you are a holder in due course.
[24:44.760 --> 24:53.600]  If that person doesn't have the funds to cover that check, you can't be punished for it because
[24:53.600 --> 24:59.280]  you don't have anything to do with that, you have no responsibility for it.
[24:59.280 --> 25:06.360]  But if you pick up a consumer note, if you purchase a consumer note, unlike a commercial
[25:06.360 --> 25:14.240]  note, if you purchase a consumer note and the originator of the note committed fraud
[25:14.240 --> 25:19.320]  in the creation of the note, what the Holder Rule says is we have these mortgage companies
[25:19.320 --> 25:24.440]  going into business creating notes using predatory lending practices, selling the note and going
[25:24.440 --> 25:33.800]  out of business, leaving the borrower with no remedy, therefore in the case of a note
[25:33.800 --> 25:39.680]  based on a consumer transaction, there shall be no holder in due course.
[25:39.680 --> 25:46.120]  The holder of the note stands in the shoes of the lender and is subject to any claim
[25:46.120 --> 25:47.720]  the borrower would have against the lender.
[25:47.720 --> 25:53.800]  I know I kind of diverged here from where we were going, but I wanted to get that out.
[25:53.800 --> 25:59.000]  I'm sorry, I'm careful about saying holder in due course, you have a holder and this
[25:59.000 --> 26:00.000]  part is important.
[26:00.000 --> 26:04.400]  These guys are claiming to be holders and they're going to want to be holders in due
[26:04.400 --> 26:06.600]  course and we're not going to let them be holders in due course.
[26:06.600 --> 26:14.000]  We're going to go back to that county record, okay, who are you, how did you get this claim?
[26:14.000 --> 26:22.360]  If you are truly a proper holder, Joe and I are going to show you some things you can
[26:22.360 --> 26:27.400]  do to these guys, it's going to make them wish they weren't the holder.
[26:27.400 --> 26:37.880]  So before you respond to someone's claim, make certain that they have the authority
[26:37.880 --> 26:40.120]  to make the claim.
[26:40.120 --> 26:46.280]  You ask that question first, once they've proved up their authority, then we can talk.
[26:46.280 --> 26:57.760]  If you talk to them prior to that, you waive the claim and we suggest never stipulate to
[26:57.760 --> 26:58.760]  anything.
[26:58.760 --> 26:59.760]  Right.
[26:59.760 --> 27:00.760]  Go ahead, Joe.
[27:00.760 --> 27:11.760]  Oh, I'm agreeing with you, 110%, do not stipulate to anything, make no admission.
[27:11.760 --> 27:12.760]  Okay.
[27:12.760 --> 27:17.080]  And you make an admission just in the normal course thing.
[27:17.080 --> 27:19.600]  They plan for you to do this.
[27:19.600 --> 27:25.080]  They plan for you to answer their letters and respond to them without backing up and
[27:25.080 --> 27:27.320]  saying, hold on, who the heck are you?
[27:27.320 --> 27:32.840]  And we get caught up in all of these details twice into anything.
[27:32.840 --> 27:38.160]  So have you pulled all the documents in the county record?
[27:38.160 --> 27:40.920]  Yes, I have.
[27:40.920 --> 27:44.160]  Okay, have you sent them to me?
[27:44.160 --> 27:46.640]  Yes, I have.
[27:46.640 --> 27:47.640]  Good.
[27:47.640 --> 27:48.640]  Okay.
[27:48.640 --> 27:53.440]  Then the next time we talk, I will have looked at them.
[27:53.440 --> 27:59.320]  You probably sent them to David, so I may not have them yet.
[27:59.320 --> 28:04.640]  By organizing, there's a special way I organize all the documents so that I can go down there.
[28:04.640 --> 28:09.840]  And this may be a good way to organize your documents, especially when you're dealing
[28:09.840 --> 28:12.240]  with technical documents of this nature.
[28:12.240 --> 28:20.960]  I always name the document, like in this case, I would put Caprice Pace, the year of the
[28:20.960 --> 28:31.840]  document, the full year, like 2013-, the month-day, and then the name of what the document is.
[28:31.840 --> 28:36.000]  And I take this date from the document itself.
[28:36.000 --> 28:41.440]  If it's a document filed in the record, I'll use the court stamp date, not the date on
[28:41.440 --> 28:47.800]  the document, because when it was filed in the record, that's when it became active.
[28:47.800 --> 28:53.560]  When you name them that way, you open a folder, they'll all arrange themselves in chronological
[28:53.560 --> 28:54.560]  order.
[28:54.560 --> 29:04.120]  Then I can look at just a list of documents and say, okay, here's a deed of trust.
[29:04.120 --> 29:10.000]  Here is a trustee giving you notice of a trustee sale.
[29:10.000 --> 29:14.520]  And I look at the trustee name, and that's not the one on the deed of trust.
[29:14.520 --> 29:16.840]  And there's nothing in between.
[29:16.840 --> 29:21.500]  So now I know there is a document that has to be there, that's not there.
[29:21.500 --> 29:25.900]  So I get these documents, first thing you do is look at those.
[29:25.900 --> 29:33.960]  Make sure every document that purports to make any claim in the record is made by some
[29:33.960 --> 29:40.080]  one who has a document in the record that says they have the power to make that.
[29:40.080 --> 29:44.200]  Once you have all of that in line, then we can start asking the right questions.
[29:44.200 --> 29:48.760]  And when I get back, I'm going to go to the question you have anyway, and I apologize
[29:48.760 --> 29:50.840]  for holding me up that way.
[29:50.840 --> 29:56.800]  This is Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens, rule of our radio, I call it number 512-646-1984.
[29:56.800 --> 30:01.520]  We'll be right back.
[30:01.520 --> 30:03.520]  There are plenty of tips for living longer.
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[31:22.760 --> 31:24.760]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[31:24.760 --> 31:30.600]  More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
[31:30.600 --> 31:35.960]  This is Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11.
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[33:01.720 --> 33:31.440]  Live, free speech radio, logosradionetwork.com.
[33:31.440 --> 33:36.720]  Okay, we are back with Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens and Joe Esquivel, and we're talking
[33:36.720 --> 33:39.320]  to Caprice in California.
[33:39.320 --> 33:48.200]  Okay, Caprice, bring us back, and if I interrupt to get backside details, don't take that as
[33:48.200 --> 33:53.520]  too much of an interruption, I'm just trying to get myself oriented so I know more precisely
[33:53.520 --> 33:54.520]  how to answer the question.
[33:54.520 --> 34:03.400]  Okay, my first question is, can they have two contracts from, like, one from North American
[34:03.400 --> 34:10.160]  Pyrrole and one from Countrywide on the same loan?
[34:10.160 --> 34:12.840]  Okay, say that again.
[34:12.840 --> 34:13.840]  I didn't get all of that.
[34:13.840 --> 34:16.840]  I'm having a little trouble with your mic.
[34:16.840 --> 34:21.560]  Okay, can there be two contracts made up from two different loan companies for the same
[34:21.560 --> 34:22.560]  loan?
[34:22.560 --> 34:27.640]  Wait a minute, what are these three claiming?
[34:27.640 --> 34:35.360]  Okay, I have the certified copies from the county from the addressable rate note, which
[34:35.360 --> 34:40.520]  would be the one from North American Pyrrole.
[34:40.520 --> 34:46.040]  One is the first and one is the second mortgage, probably, because Bank of America is claiming
[34:46.040 --> 34:50.440]  successor interest to Countrywide, and that is where nation starts coming.
[34:50.440 --> 34:54.480]  I'm following what you're saying to a point.
[34:54.480 --> 35:02.000]  So what you're saying is there's two security instruments for this property, correct?
[35:02.000 --> 35:03.000]  Correct.
[35:03.000 --> 35:11.800]  Okay, the one that is in foreclosure would be the senior lien, and that one, the lender
[35:11.800 --> 35:14.880]  was Countrywide Home Loans, correct?
[35:14.880 --> 35:15.880]  Correct.
[35:15.880 --> 35:23.760]  Okay, Recon Trust is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bank of America.
[35:23.760 --> 35:27.240]  Bank of America is a parent company.
[35:27.240 --> 35:34.360]  Bank of America did a lot of bad things and screwed up a lot, and this is why they are
[35:34.360 --> 35:42.840]  trying to pull, Bank of America is trying to pull Recon Trust out of any places that
[35:42.840 --> 35:50.000]  it's in doo-doo and trying to put the parties back together.
[35:50.000 --> 35:54.440]  So I do follow where you are going with this.
[35:54.440 --> 35:56.680]  What other parties are there?
[35:56.680 --> 36:02.600]  Okay, but I've received a letter from Bank of America stating that my loans paid off
[36:02.600 --> 36:05.600]  in full.
[36:05.600 --> 36:07.880]  I'm so confused with all this.
[36:07.880 --> 36:09.760]  I wouldn't like to see that.
[36:09.760 --> 36:18.000]  Did Bank of America tell you that your loan was paid off in full, or did Bank of America
[36:18.000 --> 36:25.400]  notify someone else that Bank of America's claim was paid in full?
[36:25.400 --> 36:36.240]  See, if Bank of America is asserting that they purchased the claim, and then someone
[36:36.240 --> 36:41.840]  purchased the claim for them and paid them for the claim, Bank of America's claim is
[36:41.840 --> 36:45.320]  paid off in full.
[36:45.320 --> 36:54.120]  We get this where people think their note has been discharged, and it's really where
[36:54.120 --> 37:01.760]  one entity is claiming that it no longer has a claim against the property because the claim
[37:01.760 --> 37:04.120]  has been transferred to someone else.
[37:04.120 --> 37:11.840]  For instance, before Merge came along, if you went to a bank and got a note and gave
[37:11.840 --> 37:21.360]  them a deed of trust, and that bank sold your note to another bank, then they would file
[37:21.360 --> 37:30.200]  in the record a release of lien and a transfer of the obligation to this other party.
[37:30.200 --> 37:35.600]  When this other party would come in and file their lien in the record, preferably the other
[37:35.600 --> 37:41.960]  party would file their lien first, then the first party would release the lien that they
[37:41.960 --> 37:46.360]  have because the new lien holder was in the record.
[37:46.360 --> 37:51.840]  When they went to Merge and turned these things into securities, they got this all screwed
[37:51.840 --> 38:00.040]  up, so you'll find these releases of lien, but it's merely intended to release the claim
[38:00.040 --> 38:01.520]  to someone else.
[38:01.520 --> 38:06.560]  Does that sound like this fits the situation?
[38:06.560 --> 38:14.200]  Yes, and Recon Trust is going behind my back filing this declaration of demand for sale
[38:14.200 --> 38:19.760]  and of notice of default of relation to sale, so I don't see that because I'm over here
[38:19.760 --> 38:27.600]  fighting with NationStar, you understand, and NationStar is not even on the record.
[38:27.600 --> 38:34.200]  So you should sue NationStar for agency standing in capacity.
[38:34.200 --> 38:42.280]  If NationStar does not have a colorable claim, then they're committing fraud.
[38:42.280 --> 38:52.000]  Now, NationStar may actually be the bona fide holder of the claim, that being the note and
[38:52.000 --> 38:57.840]  the deed of trust, without arguing that issue for the moment.
[38:57.840 --> 39:03.440]  Even if they are, if they can't prove it, it don't help them.
[39:03.440 --> 39:12.320]  If their claim is not properly filed in the public record, the claim is void as to the
[39:12.320 --> 39:22.520]  holder, just simply means that they can't exercise the privileges granted in the deed
[39:22.520 --> 39:24.760]  of trust.
[39:24.760 --> 39:28.320]  It's important you understand that part.
[39:28.320 --> 39:33.120]  In the deed of trust, you granted privileges to those guys.
[39:33.120 --> 39:37.560]  They gave you a note and they said, well, just having a claim against you, which they
[39:37.560 --> 39:46.760]  get automatically when you enter into the loan agreement, they provide value to the
[39:46.760 --> 39:49.840]  transaction by providing you the warranty deed.
[39:49.840 --> 39:53.680]  In return for the warranty deed, you promised to pay them all this money over this time.
[39:53.680 --> 39:59.440]  And there's a lot of arguments about they didn't sign the note, they don't have to.
[39:59.440 --> 40:03.240]  They created, they gave you the warranty deed, they did their part.
[40:03.240 --> 40:08.240]  You promised to pay them something and so you signed that promise to pay.
[40:08.240 --> 40:14.440]  Now we have the promise to pay and something of value change in hands.
[40:14.440 --> 40:26.280]  Now if their claim changes to someone else, that claim has to be registered in the record.
[40:26.280 --> 40:27.280]  It's not there.
[40:27.280 --> 40:36.000]  We can't go and re-contrust nobody else and a point, Joe, you were talking earlier about
[40:36.000 --> 40:42.920]  how Bank of America accrued the assets of Countrywide.
[40:42.920 --> 40:46.280]  Pertaining to personal property, not real property.
[40:46.280 --> 40:47.280]  Yes.
[40:47.280 --> 40:56.240]  If Countrywide had emerged with Bank of America, then Bank of America would be Countrywide
[40:56.240 --> 40:58.200]  in a different name.
[40:58.200 --> 41:04.480]  And if Countrywide were the bona fide holder, Bank of America would be the bona fide holder.
[41:04.480 --> 41:15.520]  However, if Bank of America purchased the assets of Countrywide, that was a sale and
[41:15.520 --> 41:24.360]  the security instrument would have necessarily had to have been transferred from the holder
[41:24.360 --> 41:29.760]  of the security instrument to a new holder and that would have to be reflected in the
[41:29.760 --> 41:30.760]  record.
[41:30.760 --> 41:39.600]  If anybody has a Washington Mutual note, Washington Mutual has put out a business and the federal
[41:39.600 --> 41:47.480]  government essentially gave all of the remaining assets of Washington Mutual to J.P. Morgan
[41:47.480 --> 42:05.760]  Chase, but whatever assets Washington Mutual held was transferred by the FDSE to J.P. Morgan
[42:05.760 --> 42:06.760]  Chase.
[42:06.760 --> 42:07.760]  I saw the transfer instrument.
[42:07.760 --> 42:11.800]  I paid nothing for it, but they transferred the assets.
[42:11.800 --> 42:22.000]  It did not merge with Washington Mutual, therefore there had to be an assignment of deed of trust.
[42:22.000 --> 42:24.480]  Washington Mutual had a claim against the property.
[42:24.480 --> 42:26.480]  They had to transfer that claim to somebody else.
[42:26.480 --> 42:27.480]  They didn't.
[42:27.480 --> 42:28.480]  They abandoned it.
[42:28.480 --> 42:34.640]  And in this case, we have First National went out of business without making that transfer.
[42:34.640 --> 42:42.560]  They have abandoned it, you did not promise to pay anybody but First National.
[42:42.560 --> 42:48.480]  You did not grant anyone a claim against your property, except First National, who are you
[42:48.480 --> 42:49.480]  guys?
[42:49.480 --> 42:50.480]  How are you making this claim?
[42:50.480 --> 42:53.960]  The only place they can do that in that county record.
[42:53.960 --> 42:55.840]  Does that make sense to Chris?
[42:55.840 --> 43:00.320]  It does, but what I don't understand is why they're going after my grandfather, he's
[43:00.320 --> 43:05.600]  deceased, and they're sending me all the bills, like from the Nation Star and all that stuff.
[43:05.600 --> 43:09.360]  I don't understand why they're sending me all the bills and they're doing all the dirty
[43:09.360 --> 43:13.960]  work in the county against my grandfather that's deceased.
[43:13.960 --> 43:15.320]  Okay.
[43:15.320 --> 43:23.320]  If your grandfather is deceased, then you were the heir to the estate.
[43:23.320 --> 43:27.280]  The living trust, right.
[43:27.280 --> 43:36.760]  Has the property been transferred either to you or to a trust over which you are the beneficiary?
[43:36.760 --> 43:42.840]  Yeah, it was, but someone removed me and I don't know how it happened.
[43:42.840 --> 43:43.840]  Okay, hang on.
[43:43.840 --> 43:44.840]  We're about to go to break.
[43:44.840 --> 43:50.760]  This is Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens, Rue La Blah Radio, a call-in number, 512-646-1984.
[43:50.760 --> 43:54.480]  We'll be right back.
[43:54.480 --> 44:07.280]  Mr. President, members of Congress, you've been making a lot of noise about taking our
[44:07.280 --> 44:11.720]  guns away, but you might want to review history.
[44:11.720 --> 44:15.320]  1835, Gonzales, Texas territory.
[44:15.320 --> 44:20.200]  The authorities wanted to confiscate the big gun that protected that colony.
[44:20.200 --> 44:21.800]  You know what the people said?
[44:21.800 --> 44:29.580]  Come and take it because they were willing to fight for their freedom and their guns.
[44:29.580 --> 44:31.000]  So are we.
[44:31.000 --> 44:34.000]  Come and take it if you want it.
[44:34.000 --> 44:37.000]  Come and take it if you think you can.
[44:37.000 --> 44:42.960]  Come and take it, but I warn you, you'll have to pry it from my colded hands.
[44:42.960 --> 44:49.700]  We want the freedom that God gave us, so you best not cross that line.
[44:49.700 --> 44:56.700]  If you want this done, you gotta come through us and take it, one shot at a time.
[44:56.700 --> 44:59.700]  Just like Gonzalez, we're keeping our guns.
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[45:03.700 --> 45:07.700]  Win your case without an attorney with Jurisdictionary.
[45:07.700 --> 45:15.700]  The affordable, easy to understand, 4-CD course that will show you how in 24 hours, step by step.
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[46:21.700 --> 46:44.700]  This is Joe Esquivel with Brent Kelton and Deborah Stevens from Rule of Law Radio in Capri.
[46:44.700 --> 46:54.700]  I believe the question that you were stating was in regards to your receiving documents in your grandfather's name.
[46:54.700 --> 46:58.700]  Correct?
[46:58.700 --> 47:00.700]  Are we still there, Caprice?
[47:00.700 --> 47:01.700]  Yeah, that was my fault.
[47:01.700 --> 47:02.700]  I didn't have her on mute.
[47:02.700 --> 47:03.700]  Oh.
[47:03.700 --> 47:04.700]  Yeah, I'm here.
[47:04.700 --> 47:05.700]  Yeah.
[47:05.700 --> 47:06.700]  Okay.
[47:06.700 --> 47:07.700]  So.
[47:07.700 --> 47:08.700]  Basically, I'm the subject of the custody.
[47:08.700 --> 47:09.700]  Okay.
[47:09.700 --> 47:10.700]  I know that for sure.
[47:10.700 --> 47:11.700]  Okay.
[47:11.700 --> 47:15.700]  Is that sound right?
[47:15.700 --> 47:16.700]  All right.
[47:16.700 --> 47:26.700]  So, the question was that you were asking is you were wondering why the bank is still sending you notices in your grandfather's name.
[47:26.700 --> 47:27.700]  Correct?
[47:27.700 --> 47:28.700]  Correct.
[47:28.700 --> 47:29.700]  Correct.
[47:29.700 --> 47:30.700]  All right.
[47:30.700 --> 47:38.700]  Somewhere along the line, the proper parties at the bank do not know that grandpa is dead.
[47:38.700 --> 47:42.700]  So, you may have to re-inform them.
[47:42.700 --> 47:43.700]  Okay.
[47:43.700 --> 47:57.700]  With a copy of his birth certificate, a copy of whatever authority in the estate papers that transferred the property to you.
[47:57.700 --> 47:58.700]  Okay.
[47:58.700 --> 48:00.700]  That's what I'm interested in too.
[48:00.700 --> 48:04.700]  Giving you legal right with legal possession.
[48:04.700 --> 48:08.700]  And that must be filed in the public record.
[48:08.700 --> 48:09.700]  Correct.
[48:09.700 --> 48:14.700]  Something must transfer the property from your grandfather's name to your name.
[48:14.700 --> 48:16.700]  I have that in front of me.
[48:16.700 --> 48:17.700]  What?
[48:17.700 --> 48:21.700]  A recorded document, grant deed.
[48:21.700 --> 48:22.700]  Okay.
[48:22.700 --> 48:27.700]  One, you're talking way too fast and I'm having trouble with the first part.
[48:27.700 --> 48:40.700]  You're saying that there is a document filed in the public record that properly transfers the holder status of the property from your grandfather to you.
[48:40.700 --> 48:41.700]  Is that correct?
[48:41.700 --> 48:45.700]  Yes.
[48:45.700 --> 48:46.700]  Okay.
[48:46.700 --> 48:52.700]  Then essentially, you can ignore their communication if you had given them notice.
[48:52.700 --> 48:55.700]  Yes.
[48:55.700 --> 48:59.700]  Have you given them notice?
[48:59.700 --> 49:04.700]  Yes, I have given them the February 24th, 2006 document.
[49:04.700 --> 49:06.700]  Okay.
[49:06.700 --> 49:19.700]  Now, if they try to foreclose, now you can sue them with a claim that has nothing to do with the property, whether it's money on it, owned against it, or any of that stuff.
[49:19.700 --> 49:20.700]  Right.
[49:20.700 --> 49:22.700]  They didn't follow the steps.
[49:22.700 --> 49:23.700]  Right.
[49:23.700 --> 49:36.700]  They're trying to foreclose on someone that doesn't exist, and they have knowledge that they're foreclosing on the wrong entity.
[49:36.700 --> 49:44.700]  If they're trying to foreclose on your grandfather, then they create a standing issue for you.
[49:44.700 --> 49:45.700]  Thank you.
[49:45.700 --> 49:46.700]  That's fine.
[49:46.700 --> 49:48.700]  We can go with everything.
[49:48.700 --> 49:53.700]  If they try to go in there and make a claim, they're going to say, well, you're not your grandfather.
[49:53.700 --> 50:05.700]  And if it is in the public record that you are the proper holder, then we don't care what those guys say.
[50:05.700 --> 50:08.700]  If they attempt to foreclose, then you go after them.
[50:08.700 --> 50:16.700]  This is what I did in Frisco where a warranty deed was granted to me by the holder.
[50:16.700 --> 50:24.700]  In the deed of trust, if you transfer your property to someone else, they can foreclose immediately.
[50:24.700 --> 50:28.700]  I said, cool, knock yourself out, because they were foreclosing on him anyway.
[50:28.700 --> 50:31.700]  So he transferred the property to me.
[50:31.700 --> 50:33.700]  I was at March.
[50:33.700 --> 50:38.700]  In August, they foreclosed on him.
[50:38.700 --> 50:39.700]  So I knew they were foreclosing.
[50:39.700 --> 50:41.700]  I just let them.
[50:41.700 --> 50:49.700]  And then they filed a notice to dedicate to my tenant, and I went to court with criminal charges against all of them,
[50:49.700 --> 50:54.700]  their lawyer and the two people who purchased the property.
[50:54.700 --> 50:56.700]  And they got all excited about that.
[50:56.700 --> 51:02.700]  And I said, sorry, guys, it's in the public record.
[51:02.700 --> 51:06.700]  What do you want from me?
[51:06.700 --> 51:09.700]  You're imputed to know what's in that court record.
[51:09.700 --> 51:17.700]  You come down here and prosecute this wrongful foreclosure, knowing full well that what you did was improper.
[51:17.700 --> 51:18.700]  We didn't know that.
[51:18.700 --> 51:20.700]  You're a problem, Bubba.
[51:20.700 --> 51:24.700]  You are imputed to know what's in that record.
[51:24.700 --> 51:25.700]  Awesome.
[51:25.700 --> 51:28.700]  And this is what I'm talking about at the beginning.
[51:28.700 --> 51:31.700]  Let's not get caught up in their claims.
[51:31.700 --> 51:32.700]  Right.
[51:32.700 --> 51:34.700]  Okay.
[51:34.700 --> 51:38.700]  Prove your claim first, and if you don't want to prove your claim, that's okay.
[51:38.700 --> 51:41.700]  You go ahead and you take that action.
[51:41.700 --> 51:46.700]  And then I'll go to the DA, and I'll see what the DA thinks about you taking that action.
[51:46.700 --> 51:47.700]  Yeah.
[51:47.700 --> 51:50.700]  And that will get their attention.
[51:50.700 --> 51:51.700]  Awesome.
[51:51.700 --> 51:52.700]  Okay.
[51:52.700 --> 51:54.700]  Does that kind of answer your question, Caprice?
[51:54.700 --> 51:56.700]  Very much so.
[51:56.700 --> 51:57.700]  Good.
[51:57.700 --> 51:58.700]  Thank you very much.
[51:58.700 --> 51:59.700]  We need to move along.
[51:59.700 --> 52:01.700]  Got a whole stack of callers tonight.
[52:01.700 --> 52:03.700]  Thank you, Eddie.
[52:03.700 --> 52:05.700]  I'm wondering, what is the difference here?
[52:05.700 --> 52:15.700]  You know, Joe, when I do these long dissertations and we wait for callers, all I tend to hear is a lot of snoring.
[52:15.700 --> 52:19.700]  And you got all these callers on the line.
[52:19.700 --> 52:22.700]  Let's take the next caller, then.
[52:22.700 --> 52:23.700]  Okay.
[52:23.700 --> 52:24.700]  James in Texas.
[52:24.700 --> 52:27.700]  Hello, Senior James.
[52:27.700 --> 52:28.700]  Good evening, Randy.
[52:28.700 --> 52:30.700]  And how's Joe?
[52:30.700 --> 52:31.700]  Joe's fine.
[52:31.700 --> 52:38.700]  Do you have a Johnny Carson swami hat for Christmas?
[52:38.700 --> 52:40.700]  That'd be a great present.
[52:40.700 --> 52:41.700]  Okay.
[52:41.700 --> 52:50.700]  My question for Joe, he was talking about the endorsement and all this, but there's two terms to remember, culpability and mens rei.
[52:50.700 --> 52:54.700]  But this goes back to two words, without recourse.
[52:54.700 --> 53:06.700]  Who put the term without recourse on the stamp and who does it apply to and how far does it apply?
[53:06.700 --> 53:12.700]  Okay.
[53:12.700 --> 53:26.700]  Usually it would start out with the lender placing that stamp on the tangible promissory note.
[53:26.700 --> 53:34.700]  And once that stamp was placed, there was intent.
[53:34.700 --> 53:36.700]  There was an intent showing.
[53:36.700 --> 53:42.700]  Hold on, hold on. This was a bifurcated question.
[53:42.700 --> 53:44.700]  Correct.
[53:44.700 --> 53:54.700]  Okay, we have intent, we have mens rei, and we have what was the other one?
[53:54.700 --> 53:55.700]  There's three issues here.
[53:55.700 --> 54:01.700]  One of them, a holder in due course, I mean, without recourse.
[54:01.700 --> 54:08.700]  Will you define without recourse? And that goes directly to my personal ignorance.
[54:08.700 --> 54:16.700]  I've used the term a lot and I've seen it a lot, but I've never had it accurately defined.
[54:16.700 --> 54:17.700]  Okay.
[54:17.700 --> 54:29.700]  Joe brought up the endorsements and usually an endorsement out of the thousands that I've looked at, it's paid to the order of a blank line without recourse.
[54:29.700 --> 54:36.700]  Recourse is an instruction from the assignor or the seller of the note to the purchaser of the note.
[54:36.700 --> 54:40.700]  Don't come back and sue me, go after the maker of the note.
[54:40.700 --> 54:53.700]  So is that intent for that unidentified line to be identified by a subsequent payee and does that without recourse only apply to them
[54:53.700 --> 55:02.700]  so that this new subsequent purchaser would then need to endorse it with his own without recourse to whoever bought it from him?
[55:02.700 --> 55:04.700]  Okay, hold on.
[55:04.700 --> 55:16.700]  Now, in thinking in terms of the holder rule, the holder rule would tend to indicate that they can put whatever the heck they want to on that note,
[55:16.700 --> 55:31.700]  but if they have been the holder, they touch that bar baby and it claims the borrower would have against the lender would stick to them.
[55:31.700 --> 55:40.700]  Can they simply transfer away that liability by putting without recourse on the note?
[55:40.700 --> 55:54.700]  Well, what it's suggesting is an instruction from the original payee of the note to a subsequent payee that if there's a default anywhere,
[55:54.700 --> 55:58.700]  don't come back and sue me, go back and sue the maker of the note.
[55:58.700 --> 56:12.700]  That's an instruction. Oh, okay. So what that's saying is I'm transferring this to you under the condition that you will indemnify me for any claim
[56:12.700 --> 56:19.700]  that may subsequently be brought against the originator of the note. Correct.
[56:19.700 --> 56:23.700]  Okay. So that's a contractual agreement between the two.
[56:23.700 --> 56:29.700]  So the holder rule still stands as valid. This doesn't violate the holder rule.
[56:29.700 --> 56:36.700]  It's just the new holder agrees to indemnify the old holder. Am I right about that?
[56:36.700 --> 56:45.700]  That is correct. But now at that point, you've got subsequent purchaser A is going to sell it to subsequent purchaser B,
[56:45.700 --> 56:58.700]  but he's unidentified on the instrument. So does that original without recourse apply to this subsequent purchaser B from not going back to subsequent purchaser A?
[56:58.700 --> 57:19.700]  You cannot. You can't project a condition on. Oh, wait a minute. Let me back up again. So he's endorsed it in blank. So wait a minute. He's specific. Endorsed in blank. What did he sell?
[57:19.700 --> 57:26.700]  Now, wait a minute. Let's not cut this into several other arguments. We hadn't got there yet.
[57:26.700 --> 57:45.700]  We're looking at this without recourse issue. That's a contractual issue that the endorser is applying to whoever signs this document, whoever endorses this document.
[57:45.700 --> 57:59.700]  They accept the conditions under which it was endorsed in blank. Am I getting that right, James? I'll let you take break first. It sounds like you're on a break.
[57:59.700 --> 58:16.700]  Okay. Yeah, we're about to go to talk a break. So we have one minute. I'm trying to be. I have in this case, folks, we have someone on the line who is very knowledgeable. And that's why I'm not being pedantic here. I'm trying to get something clearly defined.
[58:16.700 --> 58:32.700]  And in law, that is really, really important. If you don't fully understand definitions of the words that you're using, you have no idea what you're talking about. Okay, hang on. This is Randy Kelton, David Stevens, Wheel of Law Radio.
[58:32.700 --> 58:49.700]  Our calling number 512-646-1984. Give us a call. Get in line. We have a number of callers in line. We're going to try to make sure we get to everyone. But it tends to build up toward the end. So if you have a question or comment, get in line. We'll get to you. We'll be right back.
[58:49.700 --> 59:05.700]  Would you like to make more definite progress in your walk with God? Bibles for America is offering a free study Bible and a set of free Christian books that can really help. The New Testament Recovery Version is one of the most comprehensive study Bibles available today.
[59:05.700 --> 59:12.700]  It's an accurate translation and it contains thousands of footnotes that will help you to know God and to know the meaning of life.
[59:12.700 --> 59:27.700]  The free books are a three-volume set called Basic Elements of the Christian Life. Chapter by chapter, Basic Elements of the Christian Life clearly presents God's plan of salvation, growing in Christ, and how to build up the Church.
[59:27.700 --> 59:52.700]  To order your free New Testament Recovery Version and Basic Elements of the Christian Life, call Bibles for America toll free at 888-551-0102. That's 888-551-0102. Or visit us online at bfa.org.
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[01:00:14.700 --> 01:00:28.700]  John Bush here with your Liberty Beat for Thursday, August 29th, 2013. Gold opened today at $1,409, silver at $24.20, and bitcoin is trading at $118.73.
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[01:00:49.700 --> 01:00:52.700]  Information at parentsforliberty.org.
[01:00:52.700 --> 01:01:05.700]  And now the news. Despite President Obama's declaration on Wednesday that he was certain the Syrian government was responsible for the August 21st chemical attacks in Syria, intelligence officials are not as confident.
[01:01:05.700 --> 01:01:15.700]  The Office of the Director for National Intelligence released a report detailing gaps in the U.S. intelligence. Congressional committees are expected to be briefed on evidence by conference call on Thursday.
[01:01:15.700 --> 01:01:27.700]  Bashar Jafar intelligence officials have not been able to locate the exact location of Assad's supposed chemical weapons supply. The United States is not the only official body having trouble finding hard evidence linking the Syrian government to the use of chemical weapons.
[01:01:27.700 --> 01:01:35.700]  Bashar Jafar, a Syrian ambassador to the United Nations, stated that the rebels used weapons that they were able to produce with the help of outside powers.
[01:01:35.700 --> 01:01:48.700]  The British Parliament will hold a vote Thursday on a motion that would eliminate the possibility of launching an attack until the U.N. weapons inspectors publish their findings to the U.N. Security Council.
[01:01:48.700 --> 01:01:59.700]  Liberty activist John Bush was found not guilty yesterday in his trial stemming from a 2010 arrest on UT campus after he refused to go to the free speech zone while President Barack Obama was in town.
[01:01:59.700 --> 01:02:13.700]  Trial lasted from 9 a.m. to 430 p.m. and ended when Judge Herb Evans directed the jury to deliver a not guilty verdict after it became clear that the prosecution did not have any evidence showing that an order was actually given by UT police.
[01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:23.700]  The state of Texas made a fatal mistake when last year they reduced the charges from Class B misdemeanor criminal trespass to Class C misdemeanor willful failure to obey the lawful order of an officer.
[01:02:23.700 --> 01:02:37.700]  John refused three years worth of plea deals which led the state to reduce their charges. John believes he has been vindicated and is encouraging others, especially when there is minimal risk to one's freedom, to refuse to take the plea deal and stand on their convictions.
[01:02:37.700 --> 01:02:44.700]  Video of the trial will soon be available at TheLibertyBeat.com.
[01:02:44.700 --> 01:02:53.700]  On Wednesday, a military jury sentenced a U.S. Army psychiatrist to death for the 2009 shootings at Fort Hood, Texas that killed 13 people and wounded 31 others.
[01:02:53.700 --> 01:03:21.700]  Major Nadal Hassan has stated that he committed the crimes in retaliation for the United States wars in the Muslim world.
[01:03:21.700 --> 01:03:43.700]  Hello, this is Joe Esquivel with Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens on Rule of Law Radio and we are talking to James here in Texas.
[01:03:43.700 --> 01:04:07.700]  James, we were talking about without recourse and I've got a question which you can give to the listeners and what was the purpose, James, of stamping this without recourse onto the document?
[01:04:07.700 --> 01:04:08.700]  Are you there, James?
[01:04:08.700 --> 01:04:10.700]  Do it in an order.
[01:04:10.700 --> 01:04:15.700]  Okay, James, start over. My bad, I didn't have you unmuted.
[01:04:15.700 --> 01:04:16.700]  Oh, okay.
[01:04:16.700 --> 01:04:17.700]  Okay.
[01:04:17.700 --> 01:04:23.700]  I'm going to have to answer Joe's question kind of from the beginning in order.
[01:04:23.700 --> 01:04:27.700]  So you've got the homeowner who makes a note with the lender.
[01:04:27.700 --> 01:04:33.700]  The lender decides he wants to sell it to lender A. This first lender is lender A.
[01:04:33.700 --> 01:04:47.700]  He wants to sell it to lender B and he wants to sell the note and all enforceable rights to go with it and so he instructs that he doesn't want to be liable.
[01:04:47.700 --> 01:04:57.700]  So without recourse, lender A instructs lender B that if there's a default on the note, then go after the homeowner.
[01:04:57.700 --> 01:05:00.700]  Lender B cannot come after lender A.
[01:05:00.700 --> 01:05:07.700]  But lender B is never identified and it's never identified in tandem to public records.
[01:05:07.700 --> 01:05:21.700]  But lender B, to comply with securitization, then sells it to lender C, lender D, and it's still got that original stamp on there without recourse from lender A,
[01:05:21.700 --> 01:05:32.700]  which is only an instruction to lender B and this goes back to where Joe has acknowledged that does not create a bearer instrument.
[01:05:32.700 --> 01:05:39.700]  That is still order paper, but it's incomplete under UCC 3115.
[01:05:39.700 --> 01:05:54.700]  And all of these inner screening unidentified lenders are not in tandem filed of record and since they're unidentified with MERS being on the original deed of trust,
[01:05:54.700 --> 01:05:59.700]  that may be okay. It may not be. We'll let the courts adjudicate that out.
[01:05:59.700 --> 01:06:08.700]  But there's one thing is with lender B, C, and D not being identified, MERS ruins its agency relationship.
[01:06:08.700 --> 01:06:18.700]  So several years go by, it's not timely filed of record that B, C, and D bought it.
[01:06:18.700 --> 01:06:26.700]  So the deed of trust expires for operation of law. Simple.
[01:06:26.700 --> 01:06:35.700]  That brought up a real important question, but it got to the end of my tongue and it disappeared.
[01:06:35.700 --> 01:06:40.700]  I find that becomes more of a problem as I get older. Oh, I remember.
[01:06:40.700 --> 01:06:56.700]  If party A provides this document in blank and while the document is sitting in blank, there is a default.
[01:06:56.700 --> 01:07:01.700]  Who did the borrower default on?
[01:07:01.700 --> 01:07:05.700]  You don't know. Unidentified.
[01:07:05.700 --> 01:07:16.700]  So can anyone claim the harm of default if they were not in bona fide a possession at the time of the default?
[01:07:16.700 --> 01:07:27.700]  This goes back to the general intangible or the transferable record that this lender A who put on this hat as the account header,
[01:07:27.700 --> 01:07:33.700]  he sold a promissory note as a transferable record to Fannie Mae.
[01:07:33.700 --> 01:07:40.700]  So if there's a default there, Fannie Mae needs to be suing lender A as the account header.
[01:07:40.700 --> 01:07:55.700]  Well, if he sold it to them and sent it to them in blank and they didn't endorse it, they didn't take possession of it until they endorsed it.
[01:07:55.700 --> 01:07:59.700]  They didn't accrue the rights under the document.
[01:07:59.700 --> 01:08:08.700]  They sent it to them in blank. They sent it to them as a specific instrument to be endorsed under a specific endorsement.
[01:08:08.700 --> 01:08:18.700]  If they wanted to create a fairer instrument, the lender should have signed it and put no restrictions or instructions on it
[01:08:18.700 --> 01:08:22.700]  with intention to be followed by a subsequent party.
[01:08:22.700 --> 01:08:39.700]  Here's the problem. If that thing defaults in this interim, then if a party receives a mortgage that is in default, then they're a debt collector.
[01:08:39.700 --> 01:08:52.700]  That's true, because that's already boot all through the transferable record. So the only person that's got a default would be Fannie Mae if they're the ones that purchased it.
[01:08:52.700 --> 01:08:56.700]  They're the only ones that have been defaulted their money. That goes back to the account header.
[01:08:56.700 --> 01:09:05.700]  Now, wait a minute. If they purchased it but didn't endorse it, did they accrue the rights?
[01:09:05.700 --> 01:09:15.700]  When that document is sitting there in blank, does anyone have the right to claim harm based on a default on the document?
[01:09:15.700 --> 01:09:25.700]  Or can just anybody take the document, sign it, and then go back and accrue the default that has already occurred?
[01:09:25.700 --> 01:09:40.700]  The only default that is actually provable is the account header, promise story note, electronic record note, the e-note, and so forth, purchased by the intangible obligate.
[01:09:40.700 --> 01:09:45.700]  That's the only default that exists.
[01:09:45.700 --> 01:09:50.700]  Okay. I did not get that at all.
[01:09:50.700 --> 01:10:00.700]  I'll try to explain it to you. Good. In a lot of simpler terms, I'm old and slow.
[01:10:00.700 --> 01:10:08.700]  So Johnny Carson Hat wouldn't help you? Not a bit.
[01:10:08.700 --> 01:10:20.700]  What was sold, Randy, was not the entire mortgage instrument. Fannie Mae had purchased a partial interest.
[01:10:20.700 --> 01:10:24.700]  They didn't have a hoot about the tangible promissory note.
[01:10:24.700 --> 01:10:35.700]  I understand that part. Where I'm going is who accrued the rights to whatever was sold and when did they accrue those rights?
[01:10:35.700 --> 01:10:44.700]  The thing is, the rights to the note were sold from lender A to lender B, but lender B never filled his name in.
[01:10:44.700 --> 01:10:51.700]  So did he become the purchaser before he put his name in?
[01:10:51.700 --> 01:11:01.700]  Or did he become the purchaser the moment he transferred something of value for the note?
[01:11:01.700 --> 01:11:13.700]  Now is when you have to look at how securitization comes into play, that they're buying the transferable record, but also we want the personal assets, too.
[01:11:13.700 --> 01:11:21.700]  There's been no rights transferred by law.
[01:11:21.700 --> 01:11:34.700]  That's where I'm going to. So the holder transferred the rights out of his hand without recourse to someone else,
[01:11:34.700 --> 01:11:45.700]  with the presumption that someone else would take possession, but somebody else didn't take possession because they didn't put their signature on there.
[01:11:45.700 --> 01:12:01.700]  Hold on. If someone else paid the holder for the document, the holder transferred, if they signed their side and then they send it to the other guy,
[01:12:01.700 --> 01:12:10.700]  does he accrue the rights when he pays for the document or does he accrue the rights when he signs the document?
[01:12:10.700 --> 01:12:20.700]  He didn't pay for the document. He bought the transferable interest in the document, then took possession of the document.
[01:12:20.700 --> 01:12:24.700]  Okay. I'm not talking about whether the whole thing was transferred.
[01:12:24.700 --> 01:12:34.700]  I'm talking about the actual value that was intended to transfer from one party to another, whatever he bought.
[01:12:34.700 --> 01:12:44.700]  You can't talk while I am because we have a suppressor that shove yours down below me, and I can't hear that you're talking, so I don't know I'm talking over you.
[01:12:44.700 --> 01:12:46.700]  Okay. Go ahead.
[01:12:46.700 --> 01:13:04.700]  Okay. For one thing, they can't sell the note for value, for full value, after the transferable intangible obligation has been ripped and sold.
[01:13:04.700 --> 01:13:07.700]  All they can do is transfer possession.
[01:13:07.700 --> 01:13:23.700]  That's a separate issue. I'm trying to get a point here. This is something that comes up quite often, where someone comes forward to claim harm before the court for a default.
[01:13:23.700 --> 01:13:47.700]  But that default did not occur while this claim was in the name of this person. The instrument had been transferred in blank, and the default occurred before the instrument was endorsed by the party trying to make the claim.
[01:13:47.700 --> 01:14:11.700]  So even if I buy a car from you and you sign the title over to me, you just sign the title and you give it to me, do I have legal ownership of that property from the moment I pay you for it, or do I simply have possession of the property?
[01:14:11.700 --> 01:14:23.700]  Do I only accrue legal possession of it when I endorse that title?
[01:14:23.700 --> 01:14:32.700]  So I would only have a colorable claim. I wouldn't have an actual claim against the property.
[01:14:32.700 --> 01:14:47.700]  So if there was a default in the interim, would I be able to claim harm from the default?
[01:14:47.700 --> 01:14:51.700]  No, I like it when that happens.
[01:14:51.700 --> 01:14:56.700]  People are always doing that to me and I have to do that.
[01:14:56.700 --> 01:15:02.700]  I wouldn't be facetious in asking this. This is something that's come up quite a bit.
[01:15:02.700 --> 01:15:17.700]  When we have some party out of the blue claiming that they have been harmed by a default, and we look in the record and the note's been endorsed in blank, and we're saying, how did you get a claim?
[01:15:17.700 --> 01:15:26.700]  But see, that's one mistake everybody's making is they're claiming the note was endorsed in blank. It was not.
[01:15:26.700 --> 01:15:39.700]  It's a special endorsement where the subsequent party has not yet been identified, and until that person is identified in perfected of record, they can't have a claim.
[01:15:39.700 --> 01:15:44.700]  That was exactly my position. That's what I'm feeling.
[01:15:44.700 --> 01:15:56.700]  Now, the subsequent purchaser of the note could sit there further on down the line, put his note, and be the person entitled to enforce the note.
[01:15:56.700 --> 01:16:07.700]  But he didn't timely perfect a record and has no rights to the alternate method of payment on that note.
[01:16:07.700 --> 01:16:20.700]  Right. Okay, exactly. Not the note, the security instrument, because that's what he's got a claim under.
[01:16:20.700 --> 01:16:30.700]  The security instrument has expired and reached annulity by law because he never perfected his interest in the security instrument of record.
[01:16:30.700 --> 01:16:43.700]  Exactly. And on Texas, we have 13.001 that says, even if you're the proper holder of that document, if you haven't properly filed it in the record, you can't make that claim.
[01:16:43.700 --> 01:16:59.700]  Hang on, we're about to go to break. This is Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens, Rule of Law Radio, our call-in number, 512-646-1984. We'll be right back on the other side.
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[01:20:52.700 --> 01:20:58.020]  Can you take that back to the original question?
[01:20:58.020 --> 01:21:07.600]  Okay, the original question was when lender A puts without recourse on there, is that
[01:21:07.600 --> 01:21:14.900]  a definitive instruction to lender B or is that an instruction that would apply to lender
[01:21:14.900 --> 01:21:18.820]  B, C, D, E, F, G, and H on down the line?
[01:21:18.820 --> 01:21:25.420]  How far does that instruction carry or is that instruction designed by law to go from
[01:21:25.420 --> 01:21:30.100]  lender A to lender B, then lender B puts that instruction on there from lender B to
[01:21:30.100 --> 01:21:31.980]  lender C?
[01:21:31.980 --> 01:21:41.540]  I would think that if lender A transferred to lender B under this condition, lender
[01:21:41.540 --> 01:21:51.140]  B holds this claim under this condition and lender B can only transfer to lender C what
[01:21:51.140 --> 01:21:54.740]  lender B holds.
[01:21:54.740 --> 01:22:04.780]  So if lender B holds no back claim or holds a duty to indemnify lender A, he can only
[01:22:04.780 --> 01:22:06.980]  transfer what he holds to somebody else.
[01:22:06.980 --> 01:22:14.340]  So I would think that there would be another endorsement without recourse from B to C.
[01:22:14.340 --> 01:22:18.340]  Well no, B to C wouldn't have to do it without recourse.
[01:22:18.340 --> 01:22:22.500]  The only without recourse would be back to lender A.
[01:22:22.500 --> 01:22:27.940]  No, it would go to each subsequent endorsement.
[01:22:27.940 --> 01:22:34.540]  If lender B endorsed it without recourse, he would say if you have a claim, you can't
[01:22:34.540 --> 01:22:40.460]  bring it against me and you can't bring it against the other guy.
[01:22:40.460 --> 01:22:46.220]  But if he doesn't endorse it without recourse, then you can bring your claim against me,
[01:22:46.220 --> 01:22:50.940]  but you can't bring it against that guy.
[01:22:50.940 --> 01:22:56.740]  Every subsequent endorsement, they're indemnifying themselves.
[01:22:56.740 --> 01:23:03.360]  So James, to get to your question, if there were multiple parties involved in multiple
[01:23:03.360 --> 01:23:12.860]  transactions, every transaction would have a separate endorsement and every subsequent
[01:23:12.860 --> 01:23:20.700]  endorsement would have without recourse because the party selling it would not want to have
[01:23:20.700 --> 01:23:23.700]  any claims to come back onto himself.
[01:23:23.700 --> 01:23:29.380]  Okay, let's get to the actual question.
[01:23:29.380 --> 01:23:35.100]  Would that first one necessarily carry all the way down?
[01:23:35.100 --> 01:23:36.100]  No.
[01:23:36.100 --> 01:23:42.540]  If the second one endorsed without recourse, then it would carry to the next, but he's
[01:23:42.540 --> 01:23:45.220]  not required to.
[01:23:45.220 --> 01:23:47.340]  He could endorse it with recourse.
[01:23:47.340 --> 01:23:54.580]  I'm just trying to distinguish that because the first guy put without recourse in it,
[01:23:54.580 --> 01:24:01.940]  it doesn't place any duty on any subsequent transfer E to also put without recourse.
[01:24:01.940 --> 01:24:03.980]  Am I making sense here?
[01:24:03.980 --> 01:24:16.660]  Yes, and I agree with you, but that is true, but when it's a incomplete instrument, it's
[01:24:16.660 --> 01:24:19.180]  not a fair instrument.
[01:24:19.180 --> 01:24:21.180]  It's not paid to the order of blank.
[01:24:21.180 --> 01:24:25.180]  It's paid to the order of an unidentified person.
[01:24:25.180 --> 01:24:30.860]  Now that person, once they identify themselves, they can sell the note with or without recourse.
[01:24:30.860 --> 01:24:33.860]  That's up to him.
[01:24:33.860 --> 01:24:35.860]  Okay, good.
[01:24:35.860 --> 01:24:39.580]  Yeah, that's what I was hoping I got that right.
[01:24:39.580 --> 01:24:55.620]  Okay, so if a debtor is looking through these endorsements, what does without recourse mean
[01:24:55.620 --> 01:24:57.740]  to the debtor?
[01:24:57.740 --> 01:25:09.500]  Say I'm defending an action by some claimant and these without recourses are on these transfers,
[01:25:09.500 --> 01:25:11.220]  what do I care?
[01:25:11.220 --> 01:25:13.460]  How does that affect me?
[01:25:13.460 --> 01:25:22.180]  But if it's Linder E, he's never been lawfully perfected a record to have a claim to title
[01:25:22.180 --> 01:25:23.180]  to the property.
[01:25:23.180 --> 01:25:30.020]  He can put his name on the note and have a claim to the note, but he has no claim to
[01:25:30.020 --> 01:25:38.620]  property because all of these negotiations weren't in tandem filed a public record and
[01:25:38.620 --> 01:25:43.940]  MERS lost its agency relationship with an unidentified party.
[01:25:43.940 --> 01:25:50.540]  We have a case out of Texas, I'm trying to remember the name of it.
[01:25:50.540 --> 01:25:57.140]  It happens to be out of Boyd, Texas and that's a little town north of Fort Worth.
[01:25:57.140 --> 01:26:02.260]  I happened to live in that little town and when I saw the case, I knew all of the actors
[01:26:02.260 --> 01:26:06.500]  and I know exactly where the property is, but that's what it said.
[01:26:06.500 --> 01:26:16.660]  It said that MERS transfer as an agent for the original lender, transferred the property
[01:26:16.660 --> 01:26:28.140]  to a third party and this one, what they maintained was that when MERS made the transfer, then
[01:26:28.140 --> 01:26:40.260]  MERS no longer had agency and they're trying to claim in the documents that MERS is this,
[01:26:40.260 --> 01:26:49.780]  the nominee for the lender and all of the lender's successors and assigns.
[01:26:49.780 --> 01:26:56.820]  And what this court said was effectively that paragraph that said all successors and assigns
[01:26:56.820 --> 01:27:06.460]  was unconscionable, that wasn't a condition they could put in the contract.
[01:27:06.460 --> 01:27:12.820]  That when MERS transferred to this, I think it was HHBC Bank, that MERS stopped being
[01:27:12.820 --> 01:27:21.340]  an agent and MERS wanted to say that no matter who this is transferred to, I am automatically
[01:27:21.340 --> 01:27:27.100]  their agent and this court said, no, you're not, which is actually what you were saying
[01:27:27.100 --> 01:27:31.060]  if I'm reading this right here, is that correct, James?
[01:27:31.060 --> 01:27:32.540]  I would agree with that.
[01:27:32.540 --> 01:27:39.100]  They lost their agency relationship and when they lost agency relationship, if time went
[01:27:39.100 --> 01:27:46.380]  by, either trust expired by operational law because it's perfected in nobody's name.
[01:27:46.380 --> 01:27:52.140]  Okay, how does time affect that?
[01:27:52.140 --> 01:27:58.980]  I know if you have a claim and the claim accrues in the record, in Texas you have four years
[01:27:58.980 --> 01:28:06.580]  to, in which to prosecute the claim and I think it's in a real estate, real property
[01:28:06.580 --> 01:28:09.980]  in California, I think it's four years as well.
[01:28:09.980 --> 01:28:15.900]  But in a transfer of this nature where the transfers are perfected, how does time affect
[01:28:15.900 --> 01:28:16.900]  that?
[01:28:16.900 --> 01:28:26.460]  Okay, when there's a note negotiation in Texas, timely is not precisely defined, but
[01:28:26.460 --> 01:28:33.220]  the best I can determine is when the note is negotiated, you have 30 days to perfect
[01:28:33.220 --> 01:28:40.580]  a record who is the new lender so that they can be identified in record.
[01:28:40.580 --> 01:28:47.900]  Now they can be identified as lender to agency relationship with birth if they're identified
[01:28:47.900 --> 01:28:49.860]  on the note, but they're not identified.
[01:28:49.860 --> 01:28:51.540]  Okay, wait, wait, hold on.
[01:28:51.540 --> 01:28:54.860]  We said they have 30 days to perfect.
[01:28:54.860 --> 01:29:04.940]  Now I'm familiar with the DCC section that says that the note, I'm sorry, the Texas
[01:29:04.940 --> 01:29:14.180]  property code that says a deed of trust is perfected for 20 days, it's not filed within
[01:29:14.180 --> 01:29:20.300]  that 20 day period, after that it becomes unprotected unless you file it.
[01:29:20.300 --> 01:29:26.220]  I haven't seen anything about the note itself because it technically does not have to be
[01:29:26.220 --> 01:29:28.980]  filed.
[01:29:28.980 --> 01:29:35.860]  What is the law that requires that it be perfected within 30 days and how is that perfection
[01:29:35.860 --> 01:29:36.860]  accomplished?
[01:29:36.860 --> 01:29:39.740]  Hang on, we're about to go to break.
[01:29:39.740 --> 01:29:45.500]  This is Randy Kelton, there with Stevens, Wheel of Law Radio, our call in number 512-646-1984.
[01:29:45.500 --> 01:29:51.220]  We'll be right back on the other side and we see a bunch of callers, we're going to
[01:29:51.220 --> 01:29:52.220]  try to get to everybody.
[01:29:52.220 --> 01:29:56.980]  James is pretty knowledgeable, I may want to pull him up on the board and just hang
[01:29:56.980 --> 01:29:59.980]  on to him as we get to some other callers.
[01:29:59.980 --> 01:30:05.580]  These days the government seems to have its hands in almost every activity.
[01:30:05.580 --> 01:30:08.580]  Believe it or not, in some places even dying is illegal.
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[01:30:44.620 --> 01:30:46.340]  Dying is illegal in Florida.
[01:30:46.340 --> 01:30:47.340]  Dying your pet that is.
[01:30:47.340 --> 01:30:53.620]  The city of Jacksonville fined Christine Hill 250 bucks for coloring her pet poodle's paws
[01:30:53.620 --> 01:30:54.620]  pink for Halloween.
[01:30:54.620 --> 01:30:59.900]  She had used a harmless dye specially made for dogs, but no matter, artificially coloring
[01:30:59.900 --> 01:31:03.020]  your pet's fur is a violation in her state.
[01:31:03.020 --> 01:31:07.420]  The dog wasn't chained up in a vacant lot, caged puppy mill style or abused.
[01:31:07.420 --> 01:31:11.540]  Rather, Hill and her beautifully groomed poodle were taking a leisurely walk when they were
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[01:31:20.700 --> 01:31:30.860]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, more news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
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[01:32:59.660 --> 01:33:16.940]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, logosradionetwork.com.
[01:33:16.940 --> 01:33:35.340]  Thank you very much for listening to the Logos Radio Network, logosradionetwork.com.
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