[00:00.000 --> 00:04.840]  This news brief brought to you by the International Newsnet.
[00:04.840 --> 00:09.640]  The House of Representatives has voted to bar U.S. food aid to North Korea.
[00:09.640 --> 00:13.560]  Relief groups say North Korea faces imminent food shortages.
[00:13.560 --> 00:17.880]  Republican Representative Ed Royce said it would be wrong to send food to North Korea
[00:17.880 --> 00:22.000]  while Kim Jong-il's regime is pursuing nuclear weapons.
[00:22.000 --> 00:25.720]  The measure needs approval by the Senate.
[00:25.720 --> 00:31.160]  And officials say 33 people have been killed in the space of 24 hours in Mexico's industrial
[00:31.160 --> 00:32.920]  capital, Monterey.
[00:32.920 --> 00:35.520]  Most had links to the drug cartels.
[00:35.520 --> 00:40.960]  Two of the victims were bodyguards of the governor of Nuevo León, Rodrigo Medina.
[00:40.960 --> 00:45.360]  Police say a threatening message addressed to Medina has been found next to the bodies.
[00:45.360 --> 00:51.480]  Medina said the threat would not stop his efforts to beat organized crime.
[00:51.480 --> 00:55.520]  Renewed shelling between northern and southern Sudanese troops in the disputed region of
[00:55.520 --> 01:01.440]  Abye erupted Friday, forcing aid workers to evacuate the town of Agok, located in the
[01:01.440 --> 01:03.040]  area's southern tip.
[01:03.040 --> 01:07.280]  The country's south is just over three weeks away from declaring independence.
[01:07.280 --> 01:12.880]  But Khartoum and Juba have yet to decide who should control Abye, raising fears the two
[01:12.880 --> 01:15.160]  sides could resume war.
[01:15.160 --> 01:20.560]  U.S. officials have pledged to improve the aid program to Afghanistan, begun by the
[01:20.560 --> 01:22.200]  Bush administration.
[01:22.200 --> 01:27.680]  Recent analysts say more money has undermined the counterinsurgency effort against the Taliban.
[01:27.680 --> 01:32.000]  Recent U.S. government reports suggest the Obama administration has spent large sums
[01:32.000 --> 01:37.320]  on projects that have fueled corruption, distorted local economies, and left Afghanistan with
[01:37.320 --> 01:41.440]  technology it won't be able to maintain after NATO forces leave.
[01:41.440 --> 01:46.560]  The congressional commission on wartime contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan said in a report this
[01:46.560 --> 01:53.240]  month, quote, overly ambitious proposals, incomplete analysis, poor planning, weak coordination,
[01:53.240 --> 01:58.200]  and inadequate follow-through by federal officials, risked wasting billions more.
[01:58.200 --> 02:02.760]  A study last week by the Democratic majority of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
[02:02.760 --> 02:08.160]  concluded the Afghan economy is so dependent on military spending and international aid,
[02:08.160 --> 02:14.960]  it could plunge into depression in 2014, when U.S. forces are scheduled to depart.
[02:14.960 --> 02:20.480]  Over 1,000 people in at least 10 boats plan to set sail from Athens June 21st to deliver
[02:20.480 --> 02:23.880]  humanitarian aid and building materials to Gaza.
[02:23.880 --> 02:29.920]  The second international freedom flotilla includes activists from Canada, Ireland, Spain, Switzerland,
[02:29.920 --> 02:31.000]  and the U.S.
[02:31.000 --> 02:35.440]  The Americans have named their boat Vildacity of Hope after Barack Obama's book of the
[02:35.440 --> 02:36.440]  same name.
[02:36.440 --> 02:41.440]  The first freedom flotilla last year was met with deadly force from the Israeli Navy.
[02:41.440 --> 02:46.520]  Eight Turks and one Turkish American were killed as the commanders raided the Mavi Marmara
[02:46.520 --> 02:50.160]  in international waters 60 miles from Gaza.
[02:50.160 --> 02:55.360]  Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said recently Israel will again use force if the flotilla
[02:55.360 --> 02:57.360]  tries to breach the blockade.
[02:57.360 --> 03:14.800]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech
[03:14.800 --> 03:17.600]  talk radio at its best.
[03:17.600 --> 03:30.480]  Thank you.
[03:47.600 --> 03:53.600]  Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[03:53.600 --> 03:59.600]  Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[03:59.600 --> 04:04.600]  When you were 8 and you had bad traits, you thought you would just gonna learn to go then lose
[04:04.600 --> 04:08.600]  So why are you actin' like a bloody fool if you get, ah ah ah ah?
[04:08.600 --> 04:11.600]  Then you must just prove bad boys, bad boys
[04:11.600 --> 04:15.600]  Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[04:15.600 --> 04:21.600]  Bad boys, bad boys, what's he gonna do, what's he gonna do when they come for you?
[04:21.600 --> 04:25.600]  You're choking on that one, you're choking on this one, you're choking on your mother,
[04:25.600 --> 04:29.600]  and you're choking on your father, you're choking on your mother, and you're choking on your sister,
[04:29.600 --> 04:33.600]  you're choking on that one, and you're choking on me, bad boys, bad boys.
[04:33.600 --> 04:38.600]  Okay, this is Randy Kelton, Ada Craig, Deb Stephen's got the night off.
[04:38.600 --> 04:47.600]  Lou LaRaeo, this is our four-hour info marathon, we'll be taking your calls.
[04:47.600 --> 04:53.600]  I'm gonna start out talking about bar grievance site.
[04:53.600 --> 04:57.600]  I'm working on the bar grievance site right now.
[04:57.600 --> 05:01.600]  I hope to have something up within a couple of days.
[05:01.600 --> 05:12.600]  I'm going through the Supreme Court model standards of professional ethics.
[05:12.600 --> 05:24.600]  I'm gonna do that one first because the courts have encouraged all of the states to adopt the model standards.
[05:24.600 --> 05:30.600]  Most of them have with certain minor changes.
[05:30.600 --> 05:38.600]  So if I do the federal standards first, I should catch most everything in every state.
[05:38.600 --> 05:51.600]  So one of the interesting things about going through the bar grievance information is I have a book on malpractice.
[05:51.600 --> 06:00.600]  And the extent of what you can go after an attorney for is quite surprising.
[06:00.600 --> 06:07.600]  So what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna, in setting it up, I'm gonna work from a set of assumptions.
[06:07.600 --> 06:21.600]  I'm gonna assume that anything concerning the conduct of the attorney that you could file a grievance against the attorney for,
[06:21.600 --> 06:28.600]  you could also sue the attorney for if it harms you in the course of your litigation.
[06:28.600 --> 06:36.600]  So I will first go down through all of the bar standards.
[06:36.600 --> 06:40.600]  And then ask a question about each of the standards.
[06:40.600 --> 06:46.600]  Communication, did they, did the attorney effectively communicate with you?
[06:46.600 --> 06:52.600]  And the standards themselves have several things that they list about four or five.
[06:52.600 --> 06:58.600]  But when you go look in the malpractice cases,
[06:58.600 --> 07:07.600]  they've got a whole bunch of things concerning communication that the attorney must do where he can be sued if he doesn't.
[07:07.600 --> 07:18.600]  So if he can be sued if he doesn't, I'm gonna assume we can grieve him for it as well under the standard of, for instance, communication.
[07:18.600 --> 07:25.600]  Anything where he has failed to communicate effectively and causes you harm,
[07:25.600 --> 07:30.600]  you can sue him for it, so therefore you should also be able to grieve him for it.
[07:30.600 --> 07:42.600]  And once I get all of this laid into it, most of the case law and such I have for bar grievances are, go to Texas law,
[07:42.600 --> 07:46.600]  because the book, the main book I have is on, is Texas law.
[07:46.600 --> 07:50.600]  But there is another great source out there.
[07:50.600 --> 07:57.600]  And that is all of the bar grievances that have resulted in sanctions.
[07:57.600 --> 08:04.600]  Now bar grievance generally when you file it becomes secret as soon as you file it.
[08:04.600 --> 08:15.600]  It won't have that effect on my site because when you go to the site and fill out the bar grievance, it hasn't been filed yet, so it's not secret yet.
[08:15.600 --> 08:26.600]  And once you file it, you're forbidden to reveal it, but I didn't file it so the restriction doesn't come back to me.
[08:26.600 --> 08:29.600]  And that's a little present we'll give to the attorneys.
[08:29.600 --> 08:35.600]  We'll post each one of the grievances on the site with the title of the page, their name.
[08:35.600 --> 08:38.600]  So that should give them lots of notoriety.
[08:38.600 --> 08:40.600]  That'll make them real happy.
[08:40.600 --> 08:47.600]  Since P.T. Barnum says that there is no bad publicity.
[08:47.600 --> 08:49.600]  There's only publicity.
[08:49.600 --> 08:56.600]  So we're going to give them lots of free publicity because that's the kind of guys we are.
[08:56.600 --> 09:06.600]  And then once we have the grievances up with all of the issues we can find to grieve them and sue them for,
[09:06.600 --> 09:15.600]  then we'll start pulling down the sanctions that have been filed against the attorneys from the different states.
[09:15.600 --> 09:30.600]  And go through those sanctions and see which standard the sanction lies under will drop the sanction into a page and put a link to it.
[09:30.600 --> 09:36.600]  And then ask a question about that. Did the attorney do this? Did he do this?
[09:36.600 --> 09:52.600]  And when I get the page up, I think if you go over it, you will be surprised at the kinds of things that can get an attorney sanction that you might have just found annoying or irritating.
[09:52.600 --> 10:05.600]  Or in some way disruptive, you're likely to find out you can also sue them for it and bar grade them for it, of course.
[10:05.600 --> 10:19.600]  And anybody who wants to assist in that project from your individual states, it would be of great help if you went to your local bar site and drilled down through the site.
[10:19.600 --> 10:31.600]  This is often pretty hard to find and find the place where the sanctions against attorneys are listed and send me a link to it.
[10:31.600 --> 10:35.600]  That would save me a lot of time searching.
[10:35.600 --> 10:40.600]  So anybody out there has any bar grievances they want to file, get ready.
[10:40.600 --> 10:42.600]  We're about to bring this one up.
[10:42.600 --> 10:50.600]  And as soon as I get that one up, I will try to bring the judicial conduct complaint site up behind it.
[10:50.600 --> 10:55.600]  And then we're going to go to Debra's favorite subject, due process.
[10:55.600 --> 11:01.600]  So we'll have due process where we can prepare criminal complaints.
[11:01.600 --> 11:11.600]  We'll have a bar grievance site where we can file bar grievances in a judicial conduct complaint where we can file judicial conduct complaints.
[11:11.600 --> 11:21.600]  I went on the Internet today and the American Bar Association site is americanbarsociation.com.
[11:21.600 --> 11:25.600]  They've got.com, net, and org.
[11:25.600 --> 11:28.600]  Well, they didn't get info.
[11:28.600 --> 11:30.600]  So I got that one.
[11:30.600 --> 11:38.600]  And also, I've got American Bar ASSO and americanbarassociation.org.
[11:38.600 --> 11:41.600]  So I'll be putting up a site in that name.
[11:41.600 --> 11:47.600]  That way, anyone who looks for the American Bar Association can get a hit right on our site.
[11:47.600 --> 11:58.600]  And I'll start looking for similar site names for the different states that will get me similar hits.
[11:58.600 --> 12:01.600]  So far, bar grievance has been a good site.
[12:01.600 --> 12:03.600]  We put that site up.
[12:03.600 --> 12:13.600]  Two days later, I was with Ken up in Dallas, and we were looking for a piece of legislation that supposedly made bar grievances public in Texas.
[12:13.600 --> 12:16.600]  It turned out, whoever told me that on the air wasn't correct.
[12:16.600 --> 12:18.600]  There is no such legislation.
[12:18.600 --> 12:26.600]  But we did a search for bar grievance, Texas, public.
[12:26.600 --> 12:29.600]  The second hit was on my bar grievance site.
[12:29.600 --> 12:36.600]  We've been up two days, so that tells me it's going to be a good site to collect bar grievances.
[12:36.600 --> 12:38.600]  So our phone lines are open tonight.
[12:38.600 --> 12:43.600]  If you've got any questions or comments, we'd be glad to hear them.
[12:43.600 --> 12:51.600]  And it's our four-hour marathon, so we should have plenty of time tonight.
[12:51.600 --> 13:00.600]  I'm working while I'm working on these sites. Oh, the caller number is 512-646-1984.
[13:00.600 --> 13:06.600]  While we're working on the sites, we will be building more than just the complaints.
[13:06.600 --> 13:10.600]  For instance, the Judiciary Conduct Complaints site.
[13:10.600 --> 13:11.600]  I'm sorry.
[13:11.600 --> 13:12.600]  Nothing Judiciary.
[13:12.600 --> 13:13.600]  The due process.
[13:13.600 --> 13:16.600]  Due process is our specialty.
[13:16.600 --> 13:25.600]  And when I put that one up, we will start teaching the system how to analyze what went on.
[13:25.600 --> 13:32.600]  We have a set of questions, but I'm looking at going back through the code
[13:32.600 --> 13:41.600]  and walking down more closely down the code and asking my questions from the code.
[13:41.600 --> 13:52.600]  And we'll be able to better develop a set of complaints or develop the issues from just following the code down,
[13:52.600 --> 14:01.600]  because if someone has a potential criminal complaint, we always don't know how to write a criminal complaint.
[14:01.600 --> 14:13.600]  And a lot of times, things people do may or may not be criminal, depending on circumstances, how culpability is defined.
[14:13.600 --> 14:22.600]  Criminal acts go to mens reyes, a state of mind, so there are sections in the front of the code
[14:22.600 --> 14:27.600]  that define the state of mind that amounts to a criminal act.
[14:27.600 --> 14:40.600]  So as we develop the complaint, we'll ask the question, do your knowledge, did the accused act with culpable intent?
[14:40.600 --> 14:49.600]  And when you do a mouse roll over, it'll pop up the codes, I think it's in Chapter 7, that defines what culpable intent is.
[14:49.600 --> 14:54.600]  So you read that, and then you'll know what culpable intent means in law.
[14:54.600 --> 15:02.600]  So you make sure you get your complaint crafted in the language of the law that touches all of those issues.
[15:02.600 --> 15:12.600]  And we'll also put in questions that go to affirmative defenses against prosecution, so you can ask,
[15:12.600 --> 15:17.600]  it'll ask you a question about each of the affirmative defenses, and so you can check,
[15:17.600 --> 15:26.600]  no, this one doesn't apply, or this one doesn't apply, and then we'll put in boxes so you can,
[15:26.600 --> 15:33.600]  where it's appropriate, type in why this particular affirmative defense doesn't apply, or another doesn't apply.
[15:33.600 --> 15:41.600]  When that gets done, we will have a set of very effective complaints.
[15:41.600 --> 15:52.600]  And we will also put up a site, not just for complaints, but how to analyze and arrest or a complaint that's against you,
[15:52.600 --> 15:58.600]  how to walk down the code and look at the elements that must be in the complaint,
[15:58.600 --> 16:08.600]  and this will, by putting the complaint in a questionnaire, it'll allow you to mind down through the code to the part that matters to you,
[16:08.600 --> 16:13.600]  and then look at the requirements and see if the complaint is met the requirements,
[16:13.600 --> 16:18.600]  and if it hasn't, it'll give you a way to stipulate exactly how it hasn't.
[16:18.600 --> 16:30.600]  So, and then the system will prepare some very detailed, specific pleadings and motions that you can follow in your case.
[16:30.600 --> 16:37.600]  So we're working hard at it, it's taken longer than I hoped it would, but this is beginning to come together.
[16:37.600 --> 16:40.600]  And I'm looking forward to getting it up.
[16:40.600 --> 16:43.600]  Okay, this is Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig.
[16:43.600 --> 16:48.600]  Phone lines are open, 512-646-1984.
[16:48.600 --> 16:54.600]  Call in tonight's a good night to play Sump to Chumps.
[16:54.600 --> 16:56.600]  I'm talking about Eddie, of course.
[16:56.600 --> 16:59.600]  Okay, we'll be right back.
[16:59.600 --> 17:07.600]  Capital Coin & Bullion is your local source for rare coins, precious metals, and coin supplies in the Austin Metro area.
[17:07.600 --> 17:09.600]  We also ship worldwide.
[17:09.600 --> 17:14.600]  We're a family-owned and operated business that offers competitive prices on your coin and metals purchases.
[17:14.600 --> 17:20.600]  Because of you, Austin, business has been so good that we've had to move to a new and bigger location.
[17:20.600 --> 17:27.600]  We're now located at 7304 Burnett Road, Suite A, 1.2 miles north on Burnett from our previous location.
[17:27.600 --> 17:34.600]  We're on the west side of Burnett Road in the Stanley Insurance Building on the ground floor next to the Ishibon Sushi and the Genie Car Wash.
[17:34.600 --> 17:38.600]  We're open Monday through Friday, 10 to 6, Saturdays, 10 to 5.
[17:38.600 --> 17:44.600]  You're welcome to stop in during regular business hours or call 512-646-6440.
[17:44.600 --> 17:50.600]  Ask for Chad or Becky and say that you heard about us on Louisville Law Radio or Texas Liberty Radio.
[17:50.600 --> 17:59.600]  That's Capital Coin & Bullion at our new location at 7304 Burnett Road, Suite A. We'll call 512-646-6440.
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[19:20.600 --> 19:27.600]  Okay, this is Randy Kelkin, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens. Deborah Stevens has the night off.
[19:27.600 --> 19:34.600]  This is our four-hour info marathon and phone lines are open.
[19:34.600 --> 19:41.600]  We're going to spend a little more time talking about bar grievances and judicial conduct complaints.
[19:41.600 --> 19:47.600]  Once I get up the American Bar Association standards,
[19:47.600 --> 19:56.600]  I will follow that with the American Bar Association standards for the prosecutorial function.
[19:56.600 --> 20:00.600]  Most people doesn't even know that exists.
[20:00.600 --> 20:05.600]  I only found out about it kind of by accident.
[20:05.600 --> 20:12.600]  I was sitting in a prosecutor's office and he had a copy of it sitting on his desk.
[20:12.600 --> 20:23.600]  So once I saw it, I went and looked it up and it has some really interesting stuff, one of which I used in court to great effect.
[20:23.600 --> 20:38.600]  It was standard 3-3.11. I have that one burned in my memory where I was being prosecuted and I called the prosecutor to the stand and asked the prosecutor
[20:38.600 --> 20:43.600]  if he considered himself an ethical attorney. He said, yes, he did.
[20:43.600 --> 20:50.600]  I said, Mr. Hale, were you aware that there were a number of other witnesses to this incident?
[20:50.600 --> 20:56.600]  This is where a police officer tried to kill me and then charged me to cover up for what he did.
[20:56.600 --> 21:01.600]  I said, were you aware that there were other witnesses to this incident? Yes, Mr. Calton, I was.
[21:01.600 --> 21:05.600]  Did you talk to any of those witnesses? No, Mr. Calton, I did not.
[21:05.600 --> 21:09.600]  Then you consider yourself an ethical attorney. Yes, Mr. Calton, I do.
[21:09.600 --> 21:15.600]  Are you familiar with the American Bar Association standards for the prosecutorial function? Yes, Mr. Calton, I am.
[21:15.600 --> 21:24.600]  Are you familiar with standard 3-3.11? He said, no, Mr. Calton, I'm not familiar with every single paragraph.
[21:24.600 --> 21:28.600]  Well, let me familiarize you with it then.
[21:28.600 --> 21:36.600]  It says it is unethical conduct for a prosecuting attorney to refrain from pursuing evidence
[21:36.600 --> 21:43.600]  solely because that evidence may show the innocence of the accused or mitigate the guilt of the accused.
[21:43.600 --> 21:52.600]  Now, Mr. Hale, you still consider yourself an ethical attorney and his old bald head turned bright red.
[21:52.600 --> 22:01.600]  And I said, no more questions. And I thought as he thumbled off the stand,
[22:01.600 --> 22:07.600]  if I have to go to jail, that was worth it.
[22:07.600 --> 22:25.600]  Okay, as to prosecutors, generally they are insured by the county and the courts expect prosecutors to get bar grievances
[22:25.600 --> 22:34.600]  because of the position that they hold as a very contentious position and they don't make people happy.
[22:34.600 --> 22:46.600]  So filing a bar grievance against a prosecutor is not near as damning and damaging as it is when you file one against an ordinary attorney.
[22:46.600 --> 22:58.600]  However, well-structured bar grievances are still harmful to attorneys and we should file them whenever appropriate.
[22:58.600 --> 23:06.600]  And although I maintain that any bar grievance you file against an attorney harms the attorney,
[23:06.600 --> 23:16.600]  I don't suggest that we file frivolous pleadings or frivolous grievances.
[23:16.600 --> 23:19.600]  In fact, that's never necessary.
[23:19.600 --> 23:27.600]  Once you look at this site when I get it up and you see all of the things you could grieve the attorney for,
[23:27.600 --> 23:32.600]  you won't have any problem finding things you can file a bar grievance for.
[23:32.600 --> 23:39.600]  I was sitting once with the prosecuting attorney in Wise County where I'm from.
[23:39.600 --> 23:43.600]  And Greg Lowry was a good personal friend.
[23:43.600 --> 23:49.600]  And while I was sitting there, his clerk brought in a stack of bar grievances that had been filed.
[23:49.600 --> 23:54.600]  Apparently the prosecutors get all the grievances that's filed.
[23:54.600 --> 23:58.600]  And he started, while we were talking, he started flipping through them.
[23:58.600 --> 24:03.600]  And he turned the first one, he read it and he said, ooh, ooh, I've done that, I've done that.
[24:03.600 --> 24:07.600]  He turned to the next one, ooh, ooh, I've done that, I've done that.
[24:07.600 --> 24:15.600]  He's essentially done every one of the things that people have gotten sanctioned for.
[24:15.600 --> 24:24.600]  And the problem with that is, he was probably no different than any other attorney out there.
[24:24.600 --> 24:33.600]  They look at these bar grievances and all of them have done what people are being grieved about and sanctioned for.
[24:33.600 --> 24:43.600]  So they are concerned about them and there are ample opportunities to file grievances.
[24:43.600 --> 24:49.600]  We do have a caller, I'll go to the caller now, my voice is sort of running out this evening.
[24:49.600 --> 24:54.600]  Tracy, there we go.
[24:54.600 --> 24:57.600]  Tracy, do you have a question or comment for us?
[24:57.600 --> 24:59.600]  Yes, I do.
[24:59.600 --> 25:04.600]  My husband got a child sprung upon him when the child was 10 years old.
[25:04.600 --> 25:08.600]  He had no idea and the woman had no intention of telling him.
[25:08.600 --> 25:13.600]  But because she got on welfare or whatever, they came after him.
[25:13.600 --> 25:19.600]  He didn't agree in the mediation to pay back $10,000 for a child he never knew existed.
[25:19.600 --> 25:24.600]  So instead of giving him time to go get an attorney to go to court,
[25:24.600 --> 25:32.600]  they ushered him into court before a judge who told him, with the woman telling the judge that he had no idea,
[25:32.600 --> 25:41.600]  told him too bad you should have used protection and ordered on the back child support.
[25:41.600 --> 25:43.600]  Hello?
[25:43.600 --> 25:50.600]  Okay, as I understand, that judge is criminal.
[25:50.600 --> 25:51.600]  Okay.
[25:51.600 --> 25:58.600]  The judge has no authority to order you to pay back child support,
[25:58.600 --> 26:04.600]  unless he has previously been ordered to pay child support.
[26:04.600 --> 26:06.600]  Wow.
[26:06.600 --> 26:10.600]  So the judge was criminal in ordering him to pay back child support?
[26:10.600 --> 26:11.600]  Absolutely.
[26:11.600 --> 26:14.600]  He has no authority to do that.
[26:14.600 --> 26:18.600]  So what would we do in this situation?
[26:18.600 --> 26:24.600]  First thing, how long ago did he make, did you give this order?
[26:24.600 --> 26:27.600]  It's been about a year and a half.
[26:27.600 --> 26:32.600]  And every year they've been taking all of his taxes, you know, the money.
[26:32.600 --> 26:36.600]  He's probably way too long to appeal the order.
[26:36.600 --> 26:37.600]  Okay.
[26:37.600 --> 26:41.600]  Not if the judge liked jurisdiction in the first sentence.
[26:41.600 --> 26:44.600]  Yeah, we didn't know that we could even appeal it.
[26:44.600 --> 26:52.600]  Yeah, the judge would have had jurisdiction to consider child support.
[26:52.600 --> 26:56.600]  He just had no discretion to order back child support.
[26:56.600 --> 27:01.600]  Okay, so there's nothing, can we go back and appeal it?
[27:01.600 --> 27:06.600]  No, no, it's way, way too late for that.
[27:06.600 --> 27:09.600]  Yeah, absolutely, just too late to do anything about it.
[27:09.600 --> 27:12.600]  That had to be acted on promptly.
[27:12.600 --> 27:15.600]  So there's nothing we can do but just pay it off?
[27:15.600 --> 27:17.600]  That's all I know.
[27:17.600 --> 27:19.600]  Are you still paying the child support?
[27:19.600 --> 27:21.600]  I mean, the back child support?
[27:21.600 --> 27:25.600]  Yes.
[27:25.600 --> 27:28.600]  A year and a half, maybe.
[27:28.600 --> 27:31.600]  You'd have to talk to an attorney on this one.
[27:31.600 --> 27:33.600]  This is very specific.
[27:33.600 --> 27:35.600]  It's a judicial ruling.
[27:35.600 --> 27:43.600]  You had opportunity to appeal, and they're going to say you missed the opportunity to appeal.
[27:43.600 --> 27:45.600]  So therefore it becomes Res Judicata.
[27:45.600 --> 27:48.600]  I don't think you're going to get any relief.
[27:48.600 --> 27:49.600]  Okay.
[27:49.600 --> 27:52.600]  Well, I have a complaint.
[27:52.600 --> 27:55.600]  If the act was criminal in and of itself from the bench,
[27:55.600 --> 28:00.600]  then that would have deprived the judge of jurisdiction to issue the order in the first instance.
[28:00.600 --> 28:04.600]  If he lacked the jurisdiction to issue the order, it's a non-order.
[28:04.600 --> 28:06.600]  They wouldn't have to appeal the order.
[28:06.600 --> 28:10.600]  They would simply have to go after the judge for acting without jurisdiction.
[28:10.600 --> 28:17.600]  Because he can't commit a crime from the bench under the authority of his title and go from there.
[28:17.600 --> 28:21.600]  Okay, so...
[28:21.600 --> 28:23.600]  This is a hard issue.
[28:23.600 --> 28:31.600]  The courts are absolutely going to rule that his ruling was within the scope of his authority.
[28:31.600 --> 28:35.600]  That he had subject matter jurisdiction.
[28:35.600 --> 28:38.600]  He had impersonal jurisdiction.
[28:38.600 --> 28:43.600]  And you're going to argue that he exceeded his jurisdiction.
[28:43.600 --> 28:46.600]  When he issued an order he had no authority to make.
[28:46.600 --> 28:49.600]  He exceeded his jurisdiction.
[28:49.600 --> 28:58.600]  Yes, but I don't want to give you any false hope on being able to get that to stick in these corrupt courts.
[28:58.600 --> 29:00.600]  Oh.
[29:00.600 --> 29:03.600]  But you might look at suing the judge.
[29:03.600 --> 29:09.600]  Well, they also ordered that when we had our second child that they would lower the child support,
[29:09.600 --> 29:11.600]  but they've never done that.
[29:11.600 --> 29:13.600]  And that was in the court order.
[29:13.600 --> 29:20.600]  You will never, ever get the child support division of the Texas government to ever stop stealing money.
[29:20.600 --> 29:26.600]  He can pay this off and they will come back to him five years down the road wanting to start paying it all over again.
[29:26.600 --> 29:32.600]  You were dealing with one of the most corrupt agencies in all of Texas.
[29:32.600 --> 29:35.600]  Yeah, that happened to my brother.
[29:35.600 --> 29:43.600]  Unfortunately, it's the same in every state.
[29:43.600 --> 29:46.600]  The family courts are by far the most corrupt.
[29:46.600 --> 29:50.600]  But what have you been giving the whole government a turn?
[29:50.600 --> 29:52.600]  Okay, Tracy, we're about to go to break.
[29:52.600 --> 29:54.600]  Anyone just second will pick this up on the other side.
[29:54.600 --> 29:58.600]  This is rule of law radio 512646984.
[29:58.600 --> 29:59.600]  Call in number.
[29:59.600 --> 30:00.600]  I lost my son.
[30:00.600 --> 30:01.600]  My nephew.
[30:01.600 --> 30:02.600]  My uncle.
[30:02.600 --> 30:03.600]  My son.
[30:03.600 --> 30:04.600]  September 11, 2000.
[30:04.600 --> 30:08.600]  Most people don't know that a third tower fell on September 11.
[30:08.600 --> 30:12.600]  World Trade Center 7, a 47-story skyscraper, was not hit by a plane.
[30:12.600 --> 30:16.600]  Although the official explanation is that fire brought down building 7,
[30:16.600 --> 30:20.600]  over 1,200 architects and engineers has looked into the evidence
[30:20.600 --> 30:22.600]  and believed there is more to the story.
[30:22.600 --> 30:23.600]  Bring justice to my son.
[30:23.600 --> 30:24.600]  My uncle.
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[30:25.600 --> 30:26.600]  My son.
[30:26.600 --> 30:27.600]  Go to building what.org.
[30:27.600 --> 30:32.600]  Why it fell, why it matters, and what you can do.
[30:32.600 --> 30:34.600]  UnderCHEAL as children are struggling,
[30:34.600 --> 30:37.600]  and now the country drinks are all the rage these days.
[30:37.600 --> 30:42.600]  But nowadays even young children are chugging beverages like red bull and rockstar
[30:42.600 --> 30:43.600]  on the way to school.
[30:43.600 --> 30:44.600]  I'm Dr. Katherine Albrecht.
[30:44.600 --> 30:48.600]  And I'll be back in a moment with more on this dangerous trend.
[30:48.600 --> 30:50.600]  Privacy is under attack.
[30:50.600 --> 30:52.600]  When you give up data about yourself,
[30:52.600 --> 30:53.600]  you'll never get it back again.
[30:53.600 --> 30:55.600]  And once your privacy is gone,
[30:55.600 --> 30:58.600]  you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[30:58.600 --> 31:00.600]  So protect your rights.
[31:00.600 --> 31:01.600]  Say no to surveillance
[31:01.600 --> 31:03.560]  It's worth hanging on to.
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[31:14.640 --> 31:18.560]  They say that waking up is hard to do.
[31:18.560 --> 31:23.680]  It's tough rolling out of bed in the morning, but now even young people are turning to caffeinated
[31:23.680 --> 31:26.120]  energy drinks to kickstart their days.
[31:26.120 --> 31:30.680]  According to the Journal of Pediatrics, up to 50% of American youth are consuming them
[31:30.680 --> 31:32.080]  despite the risks.
[31:32.080 --> 31:35.000]  Many of these drinks contain large amounts of caffeine.
[31:35.000 --> 31:39.680]  Eight ounces of Red Bull, for example, contains about the same caffeine as a cup of coffee.
[31:39.680 --> 31:44.480]  Pediatricians caution that youngsters can have a difficult time handling the caffeine rush.
[31:44.480 --> 31:49.120]  While many kids just get wired or irritable, other potential effects include seizures,
[31:49.120 --> 31:53.160]  heart palpitations, strokes, or even sudden death.
[31:53.160 --> 31:54.440]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[31:54.440 --> 32:24.280]  More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
[32:24.280 --> 32:25.280]  All right, folks.
[32:25.280 --> 32:26.280]  We are back.
[32:26.280 --> 32:27.280]  This is Rule of Law Radio.
[32:27.280 --> 32:35.160]  As we've got at the beginning of the show, it is June 17th, 2011, but now we are trying
[32:35.160 --> 32:37.040]  to finish up a call with Tracy.
[32:37.040 --> 32:39.440]  All right, Tracy, go ahead, please.
[32:39.440 --> 32:40.440]  Dave, we do see you.
[32:40.440 --> 32:43.440]  We'll be right back with you in just a minute.
[32:43.440 --> 32:44.440]  Oh.
[32:44.440 --> 32:45.440]  Let's go live.
[32:45.440 --> 32:46.440]  All right.
[32:46.440 --> 32:47.440]  I'm sorry, Tracy.
[32:47.440 --> 32:48.440]  Try that again.
[32:48.440 --> 32:49.440]  Now we can hear you.
[32:49.440 --> 32:55.440]  Okay, would we spend more money fighting it than just paying it off?
[32:55.440 --> 32:57.440]  It's going up to $600 every year.
[32:57.440 --> 33:02.800]  Well, it's possible you might.
[33:02.800 --> 33:07.440]  I hope not knowing how much is left to pay, we have a hard time answering that question.
[33:07.440 --> 33:08.440]  Okay.
[33:08.440 --> 33:13.760]  Well, it was ruled $10,000, and that was two years ago, and it's $60 a month.
[33:13.760 --> 33:19.760]  We probably, we haven't even paid off half of it just because there's, they add on $600
[33:19.760 --> 33:21.760]  every year in January.
[33:21.760 --> 33:28.240]  Yeah, they're basically adding on through, and the other problem is, is why are they
[33:28.240 --> 33:29.240]  adding that on?
[33:29.240 --> 33:33.160]  The state's not allowed to charge interest on child support, but they're doing it.
[33:33.160 --> 33:36.240]  But there's no law that authorizes it.
[33:36.240 --> 33:37.240]  Okay.
[33:37.240 --> 33:42.120]  So what can be done about this?
[33:42.120 --> 33:50.360]  Well, without suing the entire agency at the moment, not much, but they, their entire goal
[33:50.360 --> 33:54.560]  is to steal as much money as possible.
[33:54.560 --> 34:01.800]  And they understand that suing them is very expensive because they can dig into the state
[34:01.800 --> 34:08.600]  treasury for their defense, so they have unlimited funds to throw at you.
[34:08.600 --> 34:09.600]  Wow.
[34:09.600 --> 34:14.600]  And so even just lowering the child support, because they've told us, you know, as long
[34:14.600 --> 34:19.600]  as we spend in the paperwork, we have to send in the lower, when we had our second child,
[34:19.600 --> 34:23.600]  and it would get lowered, and they threatened to office.
[34:23.600 --> 34:28.920]  But it was in the court order that when I was pregnant with my child, and it was in
[34:28.920 --> 34:34.280]  the court order when he was born, they would lower the child support payment, but if they
[34:34.280 --> 34:39.840]  haven't done that, every time we send them paperwork, they lose it.
[34:39.840 --> 34:40.840]  Okay.
[34:40.840 --> 34:41.840]  You should.
[34:41.840 --> 34:44.240]  There are things you can do, but this is difficult.
[34:44.240 --> 34:47.440]  You have to be in a position to fight them.
[34:47.440 --> 34:53.080]  Yeah, and do be aware that this is an agency that is well known for retaliation.
[34:53.080 --> 34:54.080]  Wow.
[34:54.080 --> 35:01.160]  So we've had two children since we have three in the home that are all young children.
[35:01.160 --> 35:09.040]  And wouldn't that factor into how much he's supposed to pay having dependents in the home?
[35:09.040 --> 35:14.400]  Well it most likely should, but again, you're talking about a corrupt agency.
[35:14.400 --> 35:16.520]  They're not going to follow the law.
[35:16.520 --> 35:21.520]  They have never followed the law, ever.
[35:21.520 --> 35:24.360]  I have many friends that have dealt with this agency.
[35:24.360 --> 35:30.240]  They do nothing the law requires them to do, and make stuff up about the law to get you
[35:30.240 --> 35:38.160]  to do what they want you to do.
[35:38.160 --> 35:46.160]  We like to fight, and we like to see people take on the system, but I would be remiss.
[35:46.160 --> 35:50.560]  It used to be a father's aspect of growth here in Austin, Texas.
[35:50.560 --> 35:53.560]  Is there still one?
[35:53.560 --> 35:56.920]  We'd have missed a part of that.
[35:56.920 --> 36:02.200]  I think he's asking if there is a child support group of some kind here in Austin.
[36:02.200 --> 36:08.120]  Like a father's aspect, there used to be one, but we can't find it any longer.
[36:08.120 --> 36:12.520]  Are you on a speakerphone, Tracy?
[36:12.520 --> 36:13.520]  I'm sorry, hello?
[36:13.520 --> 36:14.520]  Yeah, much, much better.
[36:14.520 --> 36:15.520]  Thank you.
[36:15.520 --> 36:16.520]  Okay.
[36:16.520 --> 36:22.680]  There used to be a fatherhood advocacy group here in Austin, and we can't find it any
[36:22.680 --> 36:23.680]  longer?
[36:23.680 --> 36:27.400]  I'm not sure if there's one or not.
[36:27.400 --> 36:33.400]  This is not an issue that I address, so I'm not knowledgeable about these issues.
[36:33.400 --> 36:39.040]  I'm sure we most likely have a listener or two that will have some knowledge about that.
[36:39.040 --> 36:43.480]  If anybody knows about it, call us in and let us know.
[36:43.480 --> 36:44.480]  Okay.
[36:44.480 --> 36:48.560]  Did we lose Tracy?
[36:48.560 --> 36:50.240]  It looks like we did.
[36:50.240 --> 36:51.240]  Okay.
[36:51.240 --> 36:53.840]  Yes, she dropped off my board.
[36:53.840 --> 36:58.720]  Okay, let's go then to Dave in California.
[36:58.720 --> 37:00.720]  Hello, Dave.
[37:00.720 --> 37:05.360]  I understand you have something for us about bar grievances.
[37:05.360 --> 37:07.360]  Yes.
[37:07.360 --> 37:13.240]  I had a reason to file a bar grievance against an attorney out here in California, and it
[37:13.240 --> 37:17.600]  was before you had your sight up for bar grievances.
[37:17.600 --> 37:25.160]  What I did is I went through the code of ethics and diagnosed what I thought was the violations
[37:25.160 --> 37:27.560]  within the code.
[37:27.560 --> 37:39.680]  I prepared five of them, five separate violations, but I filed them with the state bar, which
[37:39.680 --> 37:42.520]  is out of the Los Angeles area.
[37:42.520 --> 37:47.960]  It's actually the office of the Chief Trial Counsel Enforcement is who gets it in the Los
[37:47.960 --> 37:50.400]  Angeles area.
[37:50.400 --> 37:53.000]  All they did is just combine them into one.
[37:53.000 --> 37:59.240]  Fortunately, I had prepared it sufficiently that they felt that it should go to the next
[37:59.240 --> 38:00.240]  level.
[38:00.240 --> 38:02.840]  They have a review person that looks at them first.
[38:02.840 --> 38:10.440]  If they have, I guess, any merit at all, then it goes on to another attorney to actually
[38:10.440 --> 38:15.400]  do the research and see if any disciplinary action should be taken.
[38:15.400 --> 38:19.520]  They said, don't tell us what he's violated.
[38:19.520 --> 38:26.480]  Just tell us what he's done, and we will determine what the violations are.
[38:26.480 --> 38:28.560]  Screw that.
[38:28.560 --> 38:36.280]  Well, so then, now something that everybody should know about is that when it gets that
[38:36.280 --> 38:41.640]  far, they will send you a letter, and then you get to try to come up with all the telephone
[38:41.640 --> 38:50.760]  calls that you've made to your attorney, all correspondence, any court papers that you have
[38:50.760 --> 38:51.760]  from them.
[38:51.760 --> 38:55.920]  I mean, it just goes on and on and on to document what you had.
[38:55.920 --> 38:57.320]  Now, I don't know.
[38:57.320 --> 39:01.240]  I'm not making a note of this telephone call to you.
[39:01.240 --> 39:06.880]  I don't know when you're in a happy relationship with an attorney.
[39:06.880 --> 39:08.160]  There's no such animal.
[39:08.160 --> 39:09.160]  That's a mistake.
[39:09.160 --> 39:12.600]  Well, I guess so.
[39:12.600 --> 39:17.560]  But if you've hired an attorney to do something, maybe you don't record every telephone call
[39:17.560 --> 39:19.600]  you make until the...
[39:19.600 --> 39:21.320]  That's also a mistake.
[39:21.320 --> 39:22.320]  Turns sour.
[39:22.320 --> 39:29.680]  Well, you can go to the phone company and at least get the numbers so you can tell when
[39:29.680 --> 39:34.160]  the calls were made and generally how long they lasted.
[39:34.160 --> 39:40.920]  I was in the impression that the phone company won't give that unless there's a court order.
[39:40.920 --> 39:41.920]  Do you know anything about it?
[39:41.920 --> 39:46.720]  They won't if it's somebody else's, but yours they will.
[39:46.720 --> 39:48.520]  So I can get my phone...
[39:48.520 --> 39:54.960]  Yes, you have a special right, a special interest in your own phone records.
[39:54.960 --> 40:00.960]  Yeah, you can't get the attorney's calls to you, but you can get your calls to the attorney.
[40:00.960 --> 40:06.080]  You can also get the calls that you sent and received.
[40:06.080 --> 40:07.080]  They track all of that.
[40:07.080 --> 40:12.400]  Yeah, but I'm just saying, if he called from anything other than that to a number other
[40:12.400 --> 40:16.480]  than the one you're checking on, you're not going to be able to get it.
[40:16.480 --> 40:17.480]  Right.
[40:17.480 --> 40:21.760]  Okay, well, actually what I'm doing is calling to give you guys updates as to what's actually
[40:21.760 --> 40:27.280]  going on out here because this is an ongoing case I have with the state bar and these are
[40:27.280 --> 40:28.560]  the things that are asking.
[40:28.560 --> 40:34.280]  So if somebody is thinking about doing this or if they are in an environment where they're
[40:34.280 --> 40:39.440]  dealing with an attorney to make a copy of a phone record, even if they're having a happy
[40:39.440 --> 40:46.560]  relationship, if that's possible, to document every phone call they make, who they talk
[40:46.560 --> 40:54.880]  to, the typical CYA type stuff and then they'll have it in case the case goes sour.
[40:54.880 --> 41:00.840]  But this is what the procedure that takes place in Southern California with the state
[41:00.840 --> 41:01.840]  bar is.
[41:01.840 --> 41:09.280]  It goes through a review and then it goes to, if there is merit, then it goes to an
[41:09.280 --> 41:12.520]  officer for review and that's where I'm at right now with it.
[41:12.520 --> 41:17.840]  Well, don't expect a lot from it on the review.
[41:17.840 --> 41:24.640]  I was looking through sanctions filed against attorneys in California and if all sanctions
[41:24.640 --> 41:30.560]  against this attorney, attorney wouldn't let him practice for six months because he had
[41:30.560 --> 41:39.320]  taken retainers from thousands of clients and done nothing for them.
[41:39.320 --> 41:45.600]  That's what it took was thousands.
[41:45.600 --> 41:52.640]  We don't expect that to do much, but the grievances themselves will affect his insurance.
[41:52.640 --> 41:56.720]  Well, that was my next question.
[41:56.720 --> 42:03.080]  When I spoke to the bar grievance attorney, I said, well, doesn't his insurance get notified
[42:03.080 --> 42:04.080]  about this?
[42:04.080 --> 42:06.080]  He said, we don't notify anybody.
[42:06.080 --> 42:09.280]  We're not going to contact his insurance.
[42:09.280 --> 42:11.880]  Because they don't have to notify.
[42:11.880 --> 42:16.720]  The attorney has to notify.
[42:16.720 --> 42:21.480]  But what compels the attorney to do that?
[42:21.480 --> 42:24.360]  If he doesn't notify him, he's not insured.
[42:24.360 --> 42:27.840]  It's a contractual requirement.
[42:27.840 --> 42:33.080]  How can I, or somebody like me, make sure that he does notify them?
[42:33.080 --> 42:37.560]  Can you imagine an attorney not notifying his insurance company?
[42:37.560 --> 42:44.880]  All the insurance company that offers malpractice insurance and get a copy of a standard contract
[42:44.880 --> 42:48.640]  from them and read through the terms.
[42:48.640 --> 42:56.120]  I can't imagine an attorney being dumb enough not to notify because if he gets sued and he
[42:56.120 --> 42:59.440]  hasn't notified, he's not covered.
[42:59.440 --> 43:06.680]  So he's paying a lot of money for malpractice insurance that would be worthless.
[43:06.680 --> 43:12.880]  Well, I just want to make sure that his insurance company does get notified and the appropriate
[43:12.880 --> 43:14.400]  premiums would be adjusted.
[43:14.400 --> 43:20.160]  You might send a notice, just go in the phone book and look for all of the companies that
[43:20.160 --> 43:24.840]  provide malpractice insurance for professional malpractice insurance.
[43:24.840 --> 43:28.200]  There's generally not very many of them.
[43:28.200 --> 43:31.160]  And send a copy to every one of them.
[43:31.160 --> 43:32.160]  Okay.
[43:32.160 --> 43:33.160]  All right.
[43:33.160 --> 43:34.160]  Thank you very much.
[43:34.160 --> 43:36.480]  I wanted to give you that update, Randy.
[43:36.480 --> 43:37.480]  Thank you.
[43:37.480 --> 43:38.480]  Thank you.
[43:38.480 --> 43:39.480]  All right.
[43:39.480 --> 43:40.480]  And that is good information.
[43:40.480 --> 43:41.480]  Okay.
[43:41.480 --> 43:51.280]  This is Randy Kalkin, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens, Ruth LaRadeo on June the 17th, and
[43:51.280 --> 43:52.280]  we're taking your calls.
[43:52.280 --> 44:01.760]  We'll be right back on the other side.
[44:01.760 --> 44:19.520]  Thank you.
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[45:00.800 --> 45:09.440]  It is so enlightening to listen to 90.1 FM, but finding things on the internet isn't so easy and neither is finding like-minded people to share it with.
[45:09.440 --> 45:12.240]  Oh well, I guess you haven't heard of Brave New Books then.
[45:12.240 --> 45:13.600]  Brave New Books?
[45:13.600 --> 45:20.640]  Yes, Brave New Books has all the books and DVDs you're looking for by authors like Alex Jones, Ron Paul, Angie Albert Griffin.
[45:20.640 --> 45:24.560]  They even stock inner food, Berkey products, and Calvin Soaps.
[45:24.560 --> 45:26.960]  There's no way a place like that exists.
[45:26.960 --> 45:32.320]  Go check it out for yourself. It's downtown at 1904 Guadalupe Street just south of UT.
[45:32.320 --> 45:36.080]  Oh, by UT, there's never anywhere to park down there.
[45:36.080 --> 45:43.440]  Actually, they now offer a free hour of parking for paying customers at the 500 MLK parking facility just behind the bookstore.
[45:43.440 --> 45:47.280]  It does exist, but when are they open?
[45:47.280 --> 45:52.080]  Monday through Saturday, 11am to 9pm and 1-6pm on Sundays.
[45:52.080 --> 45:59.280]  So give them a call at 512-480-2503 or check out their events page at bravenewbookstore.com.
[46:22.080 --> 46:39.280]  All right, folks, we are back. This is Rule of Law Radio.
[46:39.280 --> 46:45.360]  Call in number is 512-646-1984. We are taking your calls.
[46:45.360 --> 46:49.920]  Right now, we have Chuck, Clint, and Stephen, and John on the line.
[46:49.920 --> 46:53.920]  We're going to go to Chuck. Chuck in Ohio. What can we do for you?
[46:53.920 --> 46:56.880]  Yeah, how are you doing, Eddie? You talk about sanctions.
[46:56.880 --> 47:02.480]  When the bar does a sanction against, could you describe what kind of sanctions they do to attorneys?
[47:02.480 --> 47:07.440]  And then if you were like in a regular trial and a judge would do a sanction, what would be the difference?
[47:07.440 --> 47:12.560]  And what are they doing? I mean, what are they actually doing?
[47:12.560 --> 47:21.520]  Yeah, from the one side when they deal with him at the bar association level is they suspend
[47:21.520 --> 47:28.640]  his bar card or charge him extra money or things of that nature at the bar card side.
[47:28.640 --> 47:32.880]  In the courtroom, the judge can hit him with financial sanctions or jail time
[47:34.720 --> 47:40.400]  by fining, say, $10,000 or $5,000 or whatever amount is actually appropriate.
[47:40.400 --> 47:50.640]  But at the same time, one's a judicial requirement of sanction and the other isn't administrative.
[47:52.480 --> 47:57.520]  Okay, okay. Okay, so how about describe some of the things else they would do,
[47:57.520 --> 48:01.200]  just mostly a fine thing or do they do anything else to these attorneys?
[48:01.200 --> 48:08.240]  It's, well, it'll almost always be some sort of fine and in the bar card side on the administrative,
[48:08.240 --> 48:15.440]  it can be a suspension of the bar card for a set amount of time in the courtroom.
[48:15.440 --> 48:22.320]  The judge can not only sanctioning monetarily and demand that his bar card be revoked.
[48:23.280 --> 48:28.400]  He can't order it, but he can demand it. And he can also hold them in contempt of court
[48:28.960 --> 48:32.400]  and send them to jail for X number of days or hours or whatever.
[48:32.400 --> 48:38.880]  Okay, you talked about that a little bit. I just wanted to get that little
[48:38.880 --> 48:42.560]  straightened out there on when I was thinking about that. That's all I needed to know,
[48:42.560 --> 48:46.160]  and I'll let you talk to the next person then. All right, thank you for your time then, all right.
[48:46.960 --> 48:49.200]  Yes, sir. Thanks for calling in. Okay, okay.
[48:51.440 --> 48:57.120]  All right, now let's go to Clint in Texas. Clint, what can we do for you?
[48:57.120 --> 49:02.400]  Hey, Eddie, I had a friend who was just involved in a real minor accident. We're not even sure
[49:02.400 --> 49:10.160]  if it was an accident. And I'm calling because I'd like to know what's he responsible for doing
[49:11.040 --> 49:15.360]  when he thinks he's been involved in some kind of contact with another car?
[49:18.480 --> 49:21.840]  Well, who instigated the contact is question number one.
[49:21.840 --> 49:27.920]  That's pretty murky at this point from what he's told me. I think it looks like this is a problem
[49:27.920 --> 49:37.280]  of two people in one lane. Going opposite directions? Same direction or what? Same direction.
[49:38.720 --> 49:44.480]  Okay. And all it did was it moved his review of the narrative. It's an adjustable one. It moved it
[49:44.480 --> 49:50.320]  in, you know, not damaging at all. I just wish it didn't. That was going to be my question.
[49:50.320 --> 49:53.040]  Was there any apparent damage?
[49:54.480 --> 49:58.640]  Um, I don't believe so. I haven't asked if his rear view mirror is scratched.
[49:59.600 --> 50:06.960]  But okay, that's likely not. Oh, hurry review mirror. Was there any apparent damage to the
[50:06.960 --> 50:10.400]  other vehicle? It went by too fast to he doesn't know.
[50:13.280 --> 50:19.040]  Went by too fast. I'm not sure how that would work. How does one damage the rear view mirror
[50:19.040 --> 50:25.280]  inside a car from the outside and there not be damage? I think you're talking about the outside
[50:25.280 --> 50:32.320]  review mirror. That's right. That's correct. So someone was was passing her in her lane and got
[50:32.320 --> 50:39.520]  too close or moved was moved over into her and clipped her review mirror. It was his mirror is
[50:39.520 --> 50:46.400]  the one that moved. Okay. If he just moved a mirror and he didn't stop,
[50:46.400 --> 50:55.120]  uh, he may not even have known that he did it. And if there is no apparent damage to her car,
[50:56.160 --> 51:03.120]  uh, and she doesn't have a need to file a complaint and you're not compelled to file a complaint.
[51:04.880 --> 51:10.320]  Okay, we'll see what would happen if he tried to stop and she kept on going. He called the
[51:10.320 --> 51:17.920]  the, uh, and he called 911 and told him what happened. And he's concerned that, uh, he believes
[51:17.920 --> 51:21.760]  the police would be corrupted and if he goes and reports that he's afraid they're going to try to
[51:22.720 --> 51:28.480]  issue him with some kind of, uh, payment that he'll have to make to the, to the city.
[51:29.760 --> 51:33.040]  And so that's, that's where he's worried. You made his phone call. He said, you know,
[51:33.040 --> 51:38.400]  he didn't give me any information, but he said, I was just involved in a, you know, in an accident
[51:38.400 --> 51:44.000]  or at least there was, I'm not sure what phrase he used or what word. Well, if there's no apparent
[51:44.000 --> 51:48.480]  damage, there's no requirement for a police report. If there's no requirement for a police
[51:48.480 --> 51:55.600]  report, there's no requirement for the police. Okay. That's just simple chain reaction there.
[51:55.600 --> 52:01.280]  If there is no visible damage and the other party did not stop, it's not a hit and run.
[52:01.280 --> 52:07.440]  Okay. Hit and run. If damage is inflicted and one party flees the scene without notifying the other.
[52:08.320 --> 52:12.560]  Okay. What about in the instance that she did receive damage and he,
[52:13.520 --> 52:18.880]  there's no damage on his, on his end? Well, the one that was moving, right?
[52:19.840 --> 52:26.480]  Well, they both were. Well, then that's an accident. Then they're most likely going to less,
[52:26.480 --> 52:32.240]  you want to argue about who tried to occupy who's lane and who was too close to the center line.
[52:32.800 --> 52:36.880]  That's going to be a hard one to prove one way or the other on either side. Most likely,
[52:36.880 --> 52:40.080]  that one would just wind up being, make a claim on your own insurance.
[52:42.720 --> 52:48.480]  Is it sufficient that he reported it by just calling 9-1-1 and, and is that, is that,
[52:48.480 --> 52:55.440]  you know, you're asking if it's sufficient. You, you missed the, the answer. It's sufficient.
[52:55.440 --> 53:02.560]  Her not doing anything. So anything beyond doing nothing is sufficient.
[53:06.320 --> 53:06.720]  Okay.
[53:09.280 --> 53:14.160]  There's no, she doesn't have a problem unless this other person decides to call against
[53:14.160 --> 53:21.040]  and make a claim against her. In which case she has the police report,
[53:21.920 --> 53:28.960]  there's a 9-1-1 call and he'll have to explain that. And so it's most likely if they come close
[53:28.960 --> 53:35.520]  to each other, he may not realize that he clipped her mirror. Even if he finds a scratch on his,
[53:35.520 --> 53:42.080]  he may not know where it come from. And did she get his license plate and such?
[53:42.080 --> 53:47.760]  No, she kept on going. He, he tried to, he tried to pull over. He pulled over and stopped.
[53:48.320 --> 53:50.080]  And he tells me that she kept you going.
[53:51.120 --> 53:56.080]  His friend is a guy, Randy. The girl's one that clipped and went on, even though they were both
[53:56.080 --> 54:02.400]  moving. Oh, okay. So the one that clipped and went on, she, she may not have known that anything
[54:02.400 --> 54:08.480]  occurred. And even if she did and she tried to make a claim, she'd be charged with hitting right.
[54:08.480 --> 54:15.840]  Okay. But that is possible. He, it's another thing we've been thinking is that she was scared.
[54:15.840 --> 54:22.160]  And then she kept on going to find a more, you know, maybe she hadn't come to her senses and
[54:22.160 --> 54:27.040]  found a place to stop. So it won't help her. She didn't call 9-1-1.
[54:27.040 --> 54:29.200]  Or didn't find a way to turn around and come back.
[54:30.800 --> 54:36.560]  Okay. All right, guys. Well, that's it. And you guys are doing a good thing. I appreciate it.
[54:36.560 --> 54:39.840]  Thanks, Clint. Take care. Have a good evening.
[54:40.720 --> 54:46.240]  You too. All right. Now we're going to go to Steven in Minnesota.
[54:47.360 --> 54:48.880]  Steven, what do you got for us?
[54:49.600 --> 54:55.040]  Well, you know, the caller, I want to say hi to everybody too, but the caller you had earlier,
[54:55.040 --> 55:00.000]  Tracy, that's having that problem with that child support.
[55:00.000 --> 55:00.640]  Child support?
[55:00.640 --> 55:06.560]  That I was just kind of looking at the Paperwork Reduction Act, the United States,
[55:06.560 --> 55:16.880]  called Title 44, Public Printings and Documents, Chapter 35, 02 Definitions, that
[55:20.000 --> 55:27.840]  on the 14th paragraph, the term penalty includes a position by an agency or court of a fine or
[55:27.840 --> 55:34.800]  other, punishment, a judgment for monetary damages or a terrible relief or revocation,
[55:34.800 --> 55:39.600]  suspension, reduction, or denial of a licensed privilege right grant or benefit.
[55:42.080 --> 55:47.440]  That would be like the honest to her. And then also in, well, no, wait a minute.
[55:47.440 --> 55:52.160]  Why are you looking in federal code? This is a state issue. This is child support.
[55:52.160 --> 55:56.960]  It's got nothing to do with the Fed. Why are you looking in the federal codes?
[55:56.960 --> 56:03.760]  Well, I was thinking that, don't they identify them with a social security number?
[56:06.160 --> 56:09.440]  Again, what does that have to do with the case at issue here?
[56:10.720 --> 56:12.240]  Yeah. Well,
[56:15.440 --> 56:21.760]  I believe that further thing to get back towards them.
[56:21.760 --> 56:29.280]  In order for what you're reading to apply, which is the Privacy Act of 1974,
[56:29.920 --> 56:36.000]  in order for that to apply, the issue has to be based upon discrimination for failure to
[56:36.000 --> 56:40.720]  disclose or provide a social security number. That's got nothing to do with the issue here.
[56:41.280 --> 56:48.480]  The issue here is taking money that is in violation of a court order, not the same thing.
[56:48.480 --> 56:51.920]  Right. And it's not federal, it's state.
[56:53.360 --> 56:55.600]  I'm just, what doesn't the federal...
[56:55.600 --> 57:04.560]  Okay. It's important to understand that you can't take terms from one set of law and arbitrarily
[57:04.560 --> 57:11.840]  import them into another set of law. You must define the terms in the law that you're using.
[57:11.840 --> 57:18.240]  But what would that be if they misapplied it? Would it be like peonage?
[57:20.320 --> 57:24.960]  Again, the social security number has nothing to do with peonage. It has nothing to do with
[57:24.960 --> 57:32.560]  that in this issue. Okay. This is not the biggest... I know some people have argued that this is
[57:33.920 --> 57:40.720]  peonage, but... Yeah, you're arguing steaks and oranges here, not even the same food class.
[57:40.720 --> 57:48.080]  Right. Okay. Federal means federal. It is only the area where the federal has direct
[57:48.080 --> 57:56.080]  jurisdiction over a particular issue or subject or individual that the federal law will apply.
[57:56.880 --> 58:03.680]  Within the borders of the states, they don't. Okay, I was... They just don't. It was just something
[58:03.680 --> 58:10.400]  I was just brushing through and I guess, thank you for joining me on that too because... No problem.
[58:11.200 --> 58:15.120]  All right, Stephen, we're about to go to break. Anything else? No, that would be all. Thanks.
[58:15.920 --> 58:20.800]  Okay. Thank you. All right, folks. This is rule of law and radio. The boards are clear. We're
[58:20.800 --> 58:28.960]  about to go to break. The call in number is 512-646-1984. Please give us a call. Let us know if you
[58:28.960 --> 58:33.120]  have anything you need to talk about, discuss, or just some general information. We'll be here
[58:33.120 --> 58:38.240]  taking your calls. We would place stump to jump, but Randy's not awake enough for that yet, so
[58:38.880 --> 58:44.720]  we'll keep going to see what happens after the fact. Right now, this is Andy Craig and Randy
[58:44.720 --> 58:49.200]  Kelton. Debra Stevens has the night off. We're about to go to break, but hang in there, folks.
[58:49.200 --> 59:02.800]  We'll be right back on the other side. Would you like to make more definite progress in your
[59:02.800 --> 59:09.440]  walk with God? Bibles for America is offering a free study Bible and a set of free Christian books
[59:09.440 --> 59:14.320]  that can really help. The New Testament recovery version is one of the most comprehensive study
[59:14.320 --> 59:19.840]  Bibles available today. It's an accurate translation, and it contains thousands of footnotes that will
[59:19.840 --> 59:25.840]  help you to know God and to know the meaning of life. The free books are a three-volume set called
[59:25.840 --> 59:31.280]  Basic Elements of the Christian Life. Chapter by chapter, Basic Elements of the Christian Life
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[59:38.160 --> 59:43.120]  your free New Testament recovery version and Basic Elements of the Christian Life,
[59:43.120 --> 01:00:00.160]  call Bibles for America toll-free at 888-551-0102. That's 888-551-0102. Or visit us online at bfa.org.
[01:00:00.160 --> 01:00:04.160]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Network.
[01:00:04.160 --> 01:00:10.400]  At least 16 people were killed across Syria Friday after security forces opened fire on protesters.
[01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:15.280]  Syrian rights groups, say 1,300 civilians and more than 300 soldiers and police,
[01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:21.520]  have been killed since the uprising began. Friday's protests came a day after Rami Makluv,
[01:00:21.520 --> 01:00:26.880]  the unpopular businessman-cousin of President Bashir Assad, announced he was becoming a
[01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:34.480]  philanthropist. In the UK, a quarter of a million civil servants are to join striking teachers for
[01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:42.400]  a mass walkout June 30, bringing schools, courts and docks to a halt. Up to 750,000 state employees
[01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:47.600]  are expected to take part over the government's pension cuts after members of the Public and
[01:00:47.600 --> 01:00:52.080]  Commercial Services Union voted by 61% in favor of strikes.
[01:00:54.080 --> 01:00:59.040]  Bloombergville, a small town that sprouted overnight in downtown New York City this week,
[01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:04.960]  is temporary home to activists enraged at Mayor Michael Bloomberg's proposed budget to cut basic
[01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:10.880]  social services, close firehouses and lay off thousands of teachers, but not raise taxes on
[01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:16.560]  the rich. Despite police harassment, town residents pledged to stay until City Council rejects the
[01:01:16.560 --> 01:01:23.680]  budget. Yemen's four-month-old uprising against President Ali Abdullah Saleh has cost the barriers
[01:01:23.680 --> 01:01:30.000]  of tribe, region, clan and gender to crumble. Sit-ins continue across Yemen and in some areas
[01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:35.600]  elaborate deals have been made to allow tribesmen to join the protests without fear of being ambushed
[01:01:35.600 --> 01:01:40.800]  by rivals. Many people have abandoned their jobs to take part in the revolution. In Sana'a,
[01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:46.560]  the protest area outside the capital's main university, known as Change Square, has its own
[01:01:46.560 --> 01:01:51.680]  restaurants, medical clinics, auditoriums and gardens. There are numerous art galleries and
[01:01:51.680 --> 01:01:57.120]  exhibits, seminars and lectures. Four daily newspapers in about 20 weeklies are now published
[01:01:57.120 --> 01:02:02.960]  there. Women who spent their lives indoors give impassioned speeches to amaze crowds.
[01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:09.040]  Change Square confirms what Lenin said of revolutions. They are, quote, festivals of the oppressed.
[01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:14.960]  Moama Gaddafi's regime is in direct talks with Libya's rebels.
[01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:20.560]  Russia's Mikhail Magalov in Tripoli after visiting the rebels in Benghazi last week said,
[01:02:20.560 --> 01:02:25.840]  I was assured direct contacts between Benghazi and Tripoli are already underway.
[01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:31.200]  Adding, the Libyan Prime Minister told me there's a round of such contacts concluded yesterday in
[01:02:31.200 --> 01:02:37.360]  Paris. Libyan Prime Minister Baghdadi al-Mammoudi said Gaddafi's departure from power was a red
[01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:43.440]  line that cannot be crossed. Magalov reiterated Moscow's call for Gaddafi to go and stressed
[01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:48.640]  he can remain living in Libya in private and security can be ensured by the tribe from which
[01:02:48.640 --> 01:02:53.360]  he came. Senior military officials from Britain and France have expressed concern about how to
[01:02:53.360 --> 01:03:19.360]  maintain NATO operation which has been extended for a second three-month period.
[01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:47.760]  All right, folks, we are back. This is rule of law radio.
[01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:51.680]  Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens, Deborah has the night off.
[01:03:51.680 --> 01:03:58.880]  Right now we have Robert and Nick on the call board. The call in number is 512-646-1984.
[01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:04.720]  This is our four-hour Friday and our info marathon, so please give us a call. Don't
[01:04:04.720 --> 01:04:08.400]  leave us hanging without callers here. We'll have to let Randy prattle on about something,
[01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:12.960]  so please give us some callers. Okay, Robert, what can we do for you?
[01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:26.400]  I have a friend that was been in jail, a female for a while on a DWI, and I heard she had
[01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:30.720]  an examining trial. I haven't did any investigating in this yet. I heard she had an
[01:04:30.720 --> 01:04:37.440]  examining trial coming up, and it was going to be this Thursday, this week, this last week,
[01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:45.440]  this week, and they changed their mind and indicted her Wednesday before Thursday,
[01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:53.440]  so, and again, I haven't looked into this very closely yet, but how can they do that?
[01:04:55.120 --> 01:04:59.040]  Well, according to the Code of Criminal Procedure, they can't. She has the right to an
[01:04:59.040 --> 01:05:05.520]  examining trial in any felony case before an indictment according to Chapter 16, Code of
[01:05:05.520 --> 01:05:09.840]  Criminal Procedure. Right, okay. Are they charging her with a felony or a misdemeanor?
[01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:14.960]  Well, they're charging her with a felony, and she... How long has she been in jail?
[01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:23.520]  Forty-something days. She's in four... Wait a minute. She was in 40 days, no examining trial.
[01:05:23.520 --> 01:05:31.680]  That's correct. Apparently, she couldn't make bail. That's right. She has no friends or nothing.
[01:05:31.680 --> 01:05:36.560]  This is just a friend of a friend, and I heard about this, and I know that
[01:05:36.560 --> 01:05:44.480]  something can be done. The court appointed attorney didn't do anything, and I've heard
[01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:51.920]  that he's waiting until she's been indicted now, so now he's going to talk to her before trial.
[01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:58.800]  He was required to see her within 24 hours of her being arrested in the first place
[01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:04.320]  after he was assigned. He was supposed to see her within 24 hours. Okay.
[01:06:06.560 --> 01:06:13.040]  Okay. She may have a claim for ineffective assistance of counsel in this regard. Say that again,
[01:06:13.040 --> 01:06:18.080]  please. She may have a claim for ineffective assistance of counsel if this guy hadn't done
[01:06:18.080 --> 01:06:24.480]  anything for her at all. Have an outsider right there. What kind of... Would that just be a motion?
[01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:30.800]  No. An outsider has no standing. Yeah, well, I understand that too, but...
[01:06:31.840 --> 01:06:36.720]  You'd have to get the document written up and get it to the jail and have her sign it.
[01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:42.880]  Okay. Could you just go through a quick verbiage of what the document might say?
[01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:48.640]  I'm recording this. Okay. This would... A lot of it would depend on
[01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:56.160]  what the circumstances were. Primarily, she had a right to be to an examining trial
[01:06:57.280 --> 01:07:02.880]  immediately after arrest, and they held her for 40 days without an examining trial.
[01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:09.680]  Okay. That's a due process violation. Okay. So that would be false imprisonment. Okay.
[01:07:09.680 --> 01:07:20.560]  Okay. How many DUIs does this person have? Well, she just... She had two before this.
[01:07:20.560 --> 01:07:25.840]  Supposedly, it was just one because they were going to try to get her driver's license back,
[01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:34.000]  but when the cops stopped her, they took her to jail. She was driving someone else's pickup
[01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:41.520]  that has had a whole bunch of DWIs, and he wasn't driving. So, you know, it seems like maybe that
[01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:45.600]  that gun license plate number might have been in some kind of database or something. I don't know.
[01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:51.200]  But the whole bit was that she hadn't had anything to drink for about two and a half hours.
[01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:57.520]  And... That's probably not enough time.
[01:07:57.520 --> 01:08:00.480]  Depending upon what she'd had to drink for that anyway.
[01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:06.160]  Yeah. But at any rate, she'd been in there quite a while. I'm very familiar with that process.
[01:08:09.120 --> 01:08:13.520]  But I didn't... I was going to try to start something with this, but I'm not sure...
[01:08:13.520 --> 01:08:16.480]  Have you talked to this woman? No, not yet.
[01:08:17.280 --> 01:08:20.400]  Okay. There's not much you could start until you talk to her.
[01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:24.400]  And you can't start it. She would have to.
[01:08:24.400 --> 01:08:29.280]  Yeah, I understand. But her friend has been writing letters to her, and he has visitation
[01:08:29.280 --> 01:08:34.000]  privileges. So, if there's something that I could write up or whatever and get it to him,
[01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:37.600]  and he could take it to her, or however we could do that.
[01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:46.640]  First thing we'd need before we could tell you much of anything is at least an outline,
[01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:49.680]  if not a narrative of what occurred. Okay.
[01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:55.360]  I didn't know how to structure an argument.
[01:08:55.360 --> 01:09:02.000]  They had been to a dance that doesn't serve drinks over in Plano. That was a
[01:09:03.200 --> 01:09:06.240]  senior citizen's place, and they were coming home.
[01:09:07.120 --> 01:09:11.360]  And she was driving his truck, and Plano cops stopped them.
[01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:15.680]  Okay. What we need mainly is what happened after a rest.
[01:09:16.480 --> 01:09:17.920]  Okay. Gotcha.
[01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.960]  We're not particularly going to go to the merits.
[01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:21.760]  Right. Okay.
[01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:23.120]  We want to go to the due process.
[01:09:23.120 --> 01:09:27.280]  She was arrested. We need to know what the other side did.
[01:09:28.400 --> 01:09:34.480]  Yeah. Everything from the time they turned the lights on her, or just before they turned
[01:09:34.480 --> 01:09:36.960]  the lights on her. Okay.
[01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:39.200]  Until today.
[01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:40.960]  Okay.
[01:09:46.080 --> 01:09:48.320]  Okay. Well, I have to think about this.
[01:09:50.320 --> 01:09:51.600]  This is going to be hard.
[01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:52.480]  You know how that goes.
[01:09:52.480 --> 01:09:55.360]  You'll find it more difficult to help someone than you think.
[01:09:56.320 --> 01:09:56.640]  I know.
[01:09:56.640 --> 01:10:03.920]  The courts are corrupt. The prosecutors are corrupt. The defense attorneys are corrupt.
[01:10:03.920 --> 01:10:08.560]  And unless you have someone who's a fighter, she's going to take a deal.
[01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:14.480]  They wanted to indict her so that they could plead down and be sure to get a deal.
[01:10:15.120 --> 01:10:15.360]  Yeah.
[01:10:16.320 --> 01:10:20.880]  They don't want her in jail. They want her on probation, paying probation fees for a very long
[01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:28.080]  time. They're not interested in fines because fines go into the general fund, probation fees
[01:10:28.080 --> 01:10:32.480]  stay in the county. So they want to put her on probation and collect as much revenue for the
[01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:36.240]  county as they can. It's all about revenue generation.
[01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:43.760]  Okay. So your suggestion with next move would be want now.
[01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:46.720]  First, we have to know the details.
[01:10:47.200 --> 01:10:47.440]  Okay.
[01:10:47.440 --> 01:10:53.360]  Okay. But we have to tell her, well, since she's in jail,
[01:10:54.480 --> 01:10:59.440]  she doesn't want to put anything that would look incriminating. So don't tell us anything
[01:10:59.440 --> 01:11:06.320]  incriminating because anything she writes and sends out of the jail, they'll read,
[01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:07.840]  probably copy.
[01:11:10.240 --> 01:11:15.360]  So basically tell us what the steps are. We will look at due process. So
[01:11:15.360 --> 01:11:23.440]  there's not much that she can do to deny herself due process. They have to do a tour. So she's
[01:11:23.440 --> 01:11:30.240]  pretty well safe from point of arrest to the day. If she took a breathalyzer,
[01:11:30.240 --> 01:11:33.200]  reading that kind of stuff, we're not interested in that. It's just this time.
[01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:34.160]  Okay.
[01:11:34.160 --> 01:11:39.280]  We're not interested in whether she was intoxicated or not. So tell her, don't even go there.
[01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:40.080]  Okay.
[01:11:40.080 --> 01:11:46.560]  Okay. Just go to the merits and we especially want to know what her attorney's done. I'll
[01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:49.680]  show her how to hammer her attorney if she's willing to fight.
[01:11:51.040 --> 01:11:56.560]  Okay. Well, I'll take my buddy over there to visit her this next week.
[01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:02.960]  Maybe Monday morning, Monday sometime. Might have more information Monday night.
[01:12:05.040 --> 01:12:09.280]  Okay. You might be too late. Once they've been dining, they'll push you for a deal and she'll
[01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:14.560]  probably take the deal in order to get out. But if she wants to pursue once she gets out,
[01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:18.960]  then she can file a suit for false imprisonment. I see.
[01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:25.200]  And that might be the best strategy. If she's been in 40 days, she probably wants out of jail.
[01:12:25.840 --> 01:12:26.800]  Oh, I'm sure.
[01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:29.600]  And she'll almost certainly take a deal to get out of jail.
[01:12:30.480 --> 01:12:33.520]  Then you can talk to her and find out what she's willing to do.
[01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:34.880]  Okay.
[01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:40.320]  Okay. If she's not ready to fight, if she's too afraid of them to fight, there's not much you
[01:12:40.320 --> 01:12:40.720]  can do.
[01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:48.720]  That's, I've explained all of this to them earlier before she was put in jail about criminal
[01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:52.320]  complaints and stuff like that. It seems scared to death.
[01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:56.800]  Yeah. They're probably too, this is hard to help people sometimes.
[01:12:56.800 --> 01:12:59.520]  Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
[01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:05.280]  All right. Okay. Bye-bye.
[01:13:05.280 --> 01:13:09.440]  Now we're going to go to Nick in Texas.
[01:13:11.200 --> 01:13:11.520]  Hello.
[01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:13.280]  Hello, Nick.
[01:13:14.080 --> 01:13:14.560]  Gentlemen.
[01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:18.480]  What? What do you got for us today? You're going to stop the chops today?
[01:13:19.280 --> 01:13:26.400]  I would like to talk to you guys about tactics. So I am doing a profile litigation on a criminal case.
[01:13:26.400 --> 01:13:33.280]  The, I guess let's go to the foundation of the story from the beginning. I was an arrest.
[01:13:33.280 --> 01:13:40.080]  I was pulled over. I gave the appropriate information to the police officer. He pulled
[01:13:40.080 --> 01:13:45.440]  a warrant that was active and valid. He then proceeded to search the car,
[01:13:47.120 --> 01:13:54.640]  discovered a small quantity of marijuana, then proceeded to charge me with that.
[01:13:54.640 --> 01:13:56.880]  That's the charge that I'm discussing right now.
[01:13:58.080 --> 01:14:01.600]  The original warrant is irrelevant. It was valid. So the search was valid.
[01:14:03.360 --> 01:14:07.360]  I was supposed to just see if I could just take the deal with the prosecutor.
[01:14:07.360 --> 01:14:09.280]  I sat down with the prosecutor at my arraignment
[01:14:11.840 --> 01:14:15.760]  and he offered me a year probation. I was not interested in that.
[01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:19.040]  And I told him the search. I told him he should just dismiss this.
[01:14:19.040 --> 01:14:26.400]  Okay. Hold on. What was the warrant? Was it traffic or class C or something minor?
[01:14:26.400 --> 01:14:31.040]  It was a class B warrant out of the county. So the state had pulled me over.
[01:14:32.560 --> 01:14:33.440]  How old was it?
[01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:36.240]  It was a valid warrant.
[01:14:36.240 --> 01:14:36.880]  Was it safe?
[01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:42.240]  No, no, no. How old? I'm trying to assess how likely they are to have a witness.
[01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:47.920]  The warrant was less than six months old, I believe.
[01:14:47.920 --> 01:14:50.960]  Okay. Then the cops probably still around.
[01:14:54.080 --> 01:14:59.120]  Okay. So what you're addressing now doesn't have really anything to do with that one?
[01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:03.040]  No. Nothing to do with this marijuana charge.
[01:15:03.040 --> 01:15:06.160]  I was just establishing that the search of the vehicle was valid.
[01:15:09.040 --> 01:15:11.040]  What was the probable cause for the stop?
[01:15:12.240 --> 01:15:15.040]  The probable cause for the stop was a mangled license plate.
[01:15:15.040 --> 01:15:21.200]  I had been hauling a trailer and the trailer had jammed into the license plate and caused it to warp.
[01:15:26.160 --> 01:15:33.840]  You need to weld a post on the trailer on the tug so you can see how close you are to it.
[01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:38.960]  I bash my plates in all the time. Okay. That's going to be,
[01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:42.080]  they're going to accept that as probable cause.
[01:15:42.080 --> 01:15:45.440]  Okay. Hold on. Problem, not probable cause.
[01:15:46.400 --> 01:15:48.720]  Absolutely not probable cause.
[01:15:49.440 --> 01:15:51.440]  It is if they can't read the plate.
[01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:54.960]  That's not a violation under subtitle C.
[01:15:55.840 --> 01:16:01.040]  Yeah, but he can stop you reasonably to let you know that you have a
[01:16:03.200 --> 01:16:06.480]  mangled plate and the courts are absolutely going to accept that.
[01:16:06.480 --> 01:16:16.720]  Well, the problem, though, is what the courts are calling and probable cause of fence versus what the code says is a probable cause of fence.
[01:16:18.240 --> 01:16:27.280]  543 limits their ability to arrest or to investigate the issues of traffic to those things under subtitle C.
[01:16:28.400 --> 01:16:34.080]  It is a local specific provision which overrides the general provision of 1401 B.
[01:16:34.080 --> 01:16:37.280]  That is a problem.
[01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:40.080]  Subject matter jurisdiction.
[01:16:40.080 --> 01:16:43.920]  Correct. Nick, if you'll hang on just a second, we'll pick this up on the other side of the break.
[01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:51.040]  All right, folks, this is rule of law radio 5126461984 is the call in number.
[01:16:51.040 --> 01:16:53.360]  This is Eddie Craig, Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens.
[01:16:53.360 --> 01:16:56.800]  She has the night off, but we'll be right back on the other side. So give us a call.
[01:16:57.440 --> 01:16:58.640]  He's got me stopped.
[01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:06.960]  Capital Coin and Bullion is your local source for rare coins, precious metals, and coin supplies in the Austin metro area.
[01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:08.800]  We also ship worldwide.
[01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:14.160]  We're a family owned and operated business that offers competitive prices on your coin and metals purchases.
[01:17:14.160 --> 01:17:19.840]  Because of you, Austin, business has been so good that we've had to move to a new and bigger location.
[01:17:19.840 --> 01:17:27.280]  We're now located at 7304 Burnett Road, Suite A, 1.2 miles north on Burnett from our previous location.
[01:17:27.280 --> 01:17:35.040]  We're on the west side of Burnett Road in the Stanley Insurance Building on the ground floor next to the Ishibon Sushi and the Genie Car Wash.
[01:17:35.040 --> 01:17:39.040]  We're open Monday through Friday, 10 to 6, Saturdays, 10 to 5.
[01:17:39.040 --> 01:17:44.960]  You're welcome to stop in during regular business hours or call 5126466440.
[01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:50.480]  Ask for Chad or Becky and say that you heard about us on rule of law radio or Texas Liberty Radio.
[01:17:50.480 --> 01:18:00.080]  That's Capital Coin and Bullion at our new location at 7304 Burnett Road, Suite A. Recall 5126466440.
[01:18:00.080 --> 01:18:04.400]  My name is Randall Kelton and I co-host on rule of law radio.
[01:18:04.400 --> 01:18:09.200]  We specialize in showing people how to strike back against corrupt public officials.
[01:18:09.200 --> 01:18:15.760]  With the mortgage crisis worsening, we set our sights on finding a remedy for people who have been cheated by their lenders.
[01:18:15.760 --> 01:18:21.040]  If you have a mortgage or have paid yours off, you have probably been cheated out of thousands.
[01:18:21.040 --> 01:18:22.320]  But there is a remedy.
[01:18:22.320 --> 01:18:37.120]  Go to remediesinrealestate.com or call me at 5124304140 and find out how to use the consumer protection laws to recover what the lenders have stolen through fraud and deception.
[01:18:37.120 --> 01:18:43.680]  We will prepare for you a qualified written request that will expose the fraud and put the lenders on the dime.
[01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:48.000]  Lender fraud is bankrupting this country and it's time to fight back.
[01:18:48.000 --> 01:19:17.040]  Go to remediesinrealestate.com or call 5124304140 and get the information you need to stop the money changers in their tracks.
[01:19:17.040 --> 01:19:26.400]  Alright folks, this is rule of law radio.
[01:19:26.400 --> 01:19:27.280]  We are back.
[01:19:27.280 --> 01:19:33.920]  Alright, we are taking your calls 512646984 is the call in number.
[01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:37.440]  Right now we are talking with Nick, John, Kathy, we see you on the board.
[01:19:37.440 --> 01:19:39.600]  Please hang in there and we will get to you shortly.
[01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:42.560]  Alright Nick, let's finish this up for you if we can.
[01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:43.520]  Yes sir.
[01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:57.440]  Okay, the issue here is that if the offense that he uses is probable cause does not appear under subtitle C of the transportation code, it does not give him probable cause.
[01:19:57.440 --> 01:20:12.160]  In 543.001 the legislature specifically limited the officer's ability to arrest without warrant only to those offenses under traffic that are found in subtitle C.
[01:20:12.160 --> 01:20:22.880]  The logic being that if those are the only ones that can be arrested without a warrant, then they are the only ones for which a stop can be initiated.
[01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:36.240]  Now had he come up to you in a parking lot where you were standing next to your car and commented about your license plate, that would be well and good, but he couldn't write you a ticket for it because you weren't on the road.
[01:20:36.240 --> 01:20:51.200]  And once you are on the road, 543.001 kicks in, he has to pull you over to inform you, he is detaining you, and he has no probable cause to do that.
[01:20:51.200 --> 01:21:06.560]  543.001 is a specific local provision that is in conflict with 1401B which is where their general arrest without warrant authority comes from.
[01:21:06.560 --> 01:21:21.920]  So the stop itself was not lawful, therefore the search was not lawful, nor was the demand for information from you that led to the finding of the warrant.
[01:21:21.920 --> 01:21:37.280]  So the original stop was not lawful, so he could not have done the search at that point with my ID to find the warrant because he did not lawfully have the ability to request my ID, correct?
[01:21:37.280 --> 01:21:38.800]  That's correct.
[01:21:38.800 --> 01:21:43.120]  Okay, interesting. Okay, I'm going to pursue that one.
[01:21:43.120 --> 01:21:58.480]  That's the imperimateria argument between the limitation to arrest without warrant for a traffic offense that was established by the legislature directly in the code versus the general provisions of the code of criminal procedure.
[01:21:58.480 --> 01:22:22.160]  And in a Z versus state, the courts made it very clear that when the two statutes are imperimateria and the local provision is in conflict with the general provision, unless there is something that specifically indicates the general provision is meant to be controlling, the local provision assumes control.
[01:22:22.160 --> 01:22:33.840]  And it specifically limits their authority to arrest without warrant to those offenses listed in subtitle C only.
[01:22:33.840 --> 01:22:34.960]  Got it?
[01:22:34.960 --> 01:22:37.520]  I got it.
[01:22:37.520 --> 01:22:45.200]  There's still some due process violations down the road, or should I pursue this case with this exclusively?
[01:22:45.200 --> 01:22:51.440]  Oh no, did they take you directly to the nearest magistrate?
[01:22:51.440 --> 01:22:55.760]  There was the arrest occurred.
[01:22:55.760 --> 01:23:00.480]  I was taken into custody, driven.
[01:23:00.480 --> 01:23:02.320]  But here's something that was interesting to me.
[01:23:02.320 --> 01:23:10.480]  It was a Travis County warrant, and I was arrested in Bastrop County by the state trooper, and then the state trooper took me to, and it was a misdemeanor.
[01:23:10.480 --> 01:23:14.080]  Not a, because I thought I would be fine.
[01:23:14.080 --> 01:23:20.880]  It was a misdemeanor in Travis County and not in Bastrop County, a class B.
[01:23:20.880 --> 01:23:29.360]  Well, they post the warrants as far as they're willing to transport.
[01:23:29.360 --> 01:23:33.520]  So Bastrop County's closed probably close enough for a class B.
[01:23:33.520 --> 01:23:40.720]  Okay, and then taken into custody, taken into holding.
[01:23:40.720 --> 01:23:44.720]  In holding, and of course during the entire process, I was splitting my fists.
[01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:49.200]  I wasn't telling them anything, and I wasn't offering any information.
[01:23:49.200 --> 01:24:03.120]  I then was taken into custody, put in jail, and from that point, I was magistrated the next day by a local judge.
[01:24:03.120 --> 01:24:06.720]  Is that the correct period of time for registration?
[01:24:06.720 --> 01:24:13.760]  No, they were required to take you immediately before a magistrate if they arrested you on the traffic offense.
[01:24:13.760 --> 01:24:19.920]  Now if he arrested you on the warrant, he would have had to do whatever the warrant commanded.
[01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:26.480]  In either case, they were required to bring you before a magistrate for an examining trial.
[01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:27.360]  For an examining trial?
[01:24:27.360 --> 01:24:28.480]  Not a registration.
[01:24:33.200 --> 01:24:37.120]  Examining trial, read chapter 16, Code of Criminal Procedure.
[01:24:37.120 --> 01:24:44.640]  It talks about examining trial and all the things they're required to do.
[01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:48.160]  Okay, point of this is, you were arrested on a warrant.
[01:24:48.160 --> 01:24:48.640]  Yes.
[01:24:48.640 --> 01:25:02.640]  The warrant was necessarily issued pro se, or in a ex parte hearing, as if you were there, the warrant would be moot.
[01:25:02.640 --> 01:25:10.320]  Because the warrant says, arrest this person and bring him before me.
[01:25:10.320 --> 01:25:18.720]  So, once he's arrested, you're to be brought back before the magistrate and a proper examining trial held.
[01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:21.680]  That's why you're to be brought before the magistrate.
[01:25:21.680 --> 01:25:25.600]  Because when he issued the warrant, they only heard one side.
[01:25:25.600 --> 01:25:31.600]  Now he's got to come before, you've got to bring him before the judge so the judge can hear both sides.
[01:25:31.600 --> 01:25:36.560]  And then the judge determines if the warrant is sufficient.
[01:25:36.560 --> 01:25:39.280]  So, a magistration doesn't get it.
[01:25:39.280 --> 01:25:41.360]  That's a term they made up.
[01:25:41.360 --> 01:25:44.320]  It doesn't exist in law.
[01:25:44.320 --> 01:25:49.680]  The one that exists in law is listed in Article 2.11, Code of Criminal Procedure.
[01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:56.480]  When a judge sits for the purpose of examining into a criminal accusation, that's an examining trial.
[01:25:56.480 --> 01:25:59.600]  Their examination hearing is what it says.
[01:25:59.600 --> 01:26:03.600]  So, they didn't do that.
[01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:15.840]  When you were brought before the magistrate, did a prosecutor offer evidence to the magistrate in your presence?
[01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:16.800]  There was no one there.
[01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:18.880]  There was only the judge.
[01:26:18.880 --> 01:26:20.160]  It was very informal.
[01:26:20.160 --> 01:26:27.920]  The judge took us out of the cell with me and two other gentlemen and asked us if we required an attorney.
[01:26:27.920 --> 01:26:34.560]  And if, that's all, yes, we required an attorney and then...
[01:26:34.560 --> 01:26:37.120]  Did they read you your rights?
[01:26:37.120 --> 01:26:40.800]  They did read me my rights when I was arrested.
[01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:45.760]  And did the magistrate do it when he was asking you about the attorney?
[01:26:45.760 --> 01:26:48.000]  No.
[01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:53.120]  Okay, 1517 requires him to do that.
[01:26:53.120 --> 01:26:59.200]  It doesn't make an exception just because the cop did it, it says the magistrate has to do it.
[01:26:59.200 --> 01:27:01.920]  1517 requires Miranda.
[01:27:01.920 --> 01:27:07.520]  Uh, I think it's in Chapter 16 as well.
[01:27:07.520 --> 01:27:12.560]  Did he give you opportunity to secure counsel?
[01:27:12.560 --> 01:27:15.600]  Did he enter evidence in accordance with the rules of evidence?
[01:27:15.600 --> 01:27:19.520]  Apparently not, since there was nobody there to enter evidence against you.
[01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:21.840]  Yes, there was no one there to enter evidence.
[01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:28.720]  So he received evidence in an exparte hearing that you weren't allowed to attend.
[01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:31.120]  Exparte hearing.
[01:27:31.120 --> 01:27:33.280]  Uh, I'm sorry, can I go back for a second?
[01:27:33.280 --> 01:27:34.880]  You said Aziz versus State.
[01:27:34.880 --> 01:27:38.240]  Can you spell the name on that, sir?
[01:27:38.240 --> 01:27:40.400]  A-Z-E-E-Z?
[01:27:40.400 --> 01:27:42.640]  E-E-Z, okay, yeah.
[01:27:42.640 --> 01:27:46.400]  Yeah, Az-E-E-Z, Aziz versus State.
[01:27:46.400 --> 01:27:48.400]  That's where I'm going to start then.
[01:27:48.400 --> 01:27:52.640]  Yeah, it's a 2008 case here in Texas.
[01:27:52.640 --> 01:27:56.960]  2008.
[01:27:56.960 --> 01:28:00.640]  Uh, there was one other issue that I found that was very peculiar.
[01:28:00.640 --> 01:28:04.720]  Um, I think I upset the officers during the process because I wasn't given any
[01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:09.840]  information about myself, nor was I cooperating in their investigation.
[01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:16.240]  Um, I know for a fact what amount of contraband I had with me,
[01:28:16.240 --> 01:28:21.680]  and I was charged for that under a possession charge.
[01:28:21.680 --> 01:28:27.680]  But additionally, I was charged with a paraphernalia charge in the J.P.
[01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:31.440]  out of the local J.P. where I was.
[01:28:31.440 --> 01:28:35.280]  And they have filed a charge and sent me the letter about, uh,
[01:28:35.280 --> 01:28:37.680]  a license, about my license being revoked.
[01:28:37.680 --> 01:28:41.520]  Meanwhile, I never got, I was never ticketed for that.
[01:28:41.520 --> 01:28:45.040]  You don't have to have a ticket for that to apply.
[01:28:45.040 --> 01:28:46.960]  Did you have paraphernalia?
[01:28:46.960 --> 01:28:49.120]  I did not.
[01:28:49.120 --> 01:28:52.080]  Okay, then that's an accusation.
[01:28:52.080 --> 01:28:55.520]  You can move to quash to complain on, but if you're going after the stop being
[01:28:55.520 --> 01:29:02.400]  illegal, that would quash it anyway as a part of the illegally seized evidence.
[01:29:02.400 --> 01:29:05.760]  And here's something interesting that I was going to ask you guys.
[01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:14.320]  If I can move to quash this using Aziz versus State, can I retrieve my property?
[01:29:14.320 --> 01:29:17.920]  No, not if you're talking about the contraband.
[01:29:17.920 --> 01:29:21.440]  Not the contraband? The contraband container?
[01:29:21.440 --> 01:29:27.360]  Uh, probably not. It will be part of the evidence associated with the contraband.
[01:29:27.360 --> 01:29:31.760]  Well, not if the, uh, unless you're talking about your car.
[01:29:31.760 --> 01:29:32.160]  Not the car.
[01:29:32.160 --> 01:29:35.280]  Case is tossed. It's not evidence anymore.
[01:29:35.280 --> 01:29:38.960]  Yes, that's what I was trying to assert myself.
[01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:42.800]  Well, again, it depends on what it is.
[01:29:42.800 --> 01:29:49.360]  If the thing you had it in in and of itself was contraband, they're not going to give it back to you.
[01:29:49.360 --> 01:29:51.920]  No, it was not. It was a disc marker for a disc golf.
[01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:55.440]  Like hang on just a minute, Nick, we'll be right back.
[01:29:55.440 --> 01:30:20.240]  All right, folks, this is rule of law radio. We'll be right back on the other side of the.
[01:30:20.240 --> 01:30:26.160]  This leg belongs to a perpetrator close enough to the bomb or his body to be damaged, leaving only a left leg behind.
[01:30:26.160 --> 01:30:32.800]  Who was this person? Please go to okcbombingtruth.com.
[01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:37.200]  Jabber, jabber, jabber. It's the sound of people talking about other people.
[01:30:37.200 --> 01:30:41.680]  Gossiping around the water cooler is an age old tradition, but is it really okay?
[01:30:41.680 --> 01:30:45.360]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albert, and I'll tell you more in just a moment.
[01:30:45.360 --> 01:30:49.120]  Privacy is under attack. When you give up data about yourself,
[01:30:49.120 --> 01:30:52.560]  you'll never get it back again. And once your privacy is gone,
[01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:55.600]  you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[01:30:55.600 --> 01:31:00.880]  So protect your rights. Say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:06.960]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to. This public service announcement is brought to you by startpage.com,
[01:31:06.960 --> 01:31:12.960]  the private search engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing. Start over with Start Page.
[01:31:14.400 --> 01:31:16.640]  Gossip is more than just idle talk.
[01:31:16.640 --> 01:31:20.400]  A study by Northeastern University proves that negative chit chat
[01:31:20.400 --> 01:31:23.920]  actually changes the way we view the person who's defamed.
[01:31:23.920 --> 01:31:30.080]  Volunteers viewed images of neutral human faces paired with neutral, positive, or negative gossip.
[01:31:30.080 --> 01:31:34.480]  When shown an image associated with negative comments like she stole money,
[01:31:34.480 --> 01:31:39.440]  volunteers spent much more time studying the person's face than they did the other faces.
[01:31:39.440 --> 01:31:44.000]  Researchers believe the change in the visual perception of people associated with negative
[01:31:44.000 --> 01:31:49.680]  gossip is a protection mechanism. It helps us steer clear of people with a reputation for lying,
[01:31:49.680 --> 01:32:15.680]  cheating, or harming others. Like Dr. Catherine Albrecht, more news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
[01:32:19.680 --> 01:32:39.840]  Hi folks, we are back. This is Rule of Law Radio, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig,
[01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:46.080]  Debra Stevens. Debra has the night off. We are taking your calls 512-646-1984.
[01:32:46.080 --> 01:32:51.280]  It's the call-in number. This is our four-hour marathon night. If you have any questions or
[01:32:51.280 --> 01:32:54.560]  issues, please give us a call. Right now we're going to try to finish up with Nick,
[01:32:55.200 --> 01:32:59.040]  John, Kathy, Jason. We see all you folks on the board there, so if y'all hang on,
[01:32:59.040 --> 01:33:03.280]  we'll be in just a second. All right, Nick, let's see if we can wrap you up here.
[01:33:03.280 --> 01:33:11.280]  Yes, sir. I just had an inspirational thought. Would the container possibly be the paraphernalia
[01:33:11.280 --> 01:33:18.880]  that was picketed in the JP? It's possible, depending upon what they deem it could be used for.
[01:33:21.040 --> 01:33:27.920]  In and of itself, it's simply a disc that fits inside of each other to disc off discs,
[01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:35.200]  like many discs that are always technically, but were formed into a container,
[01:33:35.200 --> 01:33:45.840]  making basically a ziplock type container? If it is an object that has a legal use,
[01:33:47.040 --> 01:33:53.600]  then it can't be considered paraphernalia. It cannot be. If it's not something specifically used for
[01:33:54.560 --> 01:34:01.280]  like a bog or a... No, no. It's specifically not. It is a different reason.
[01:34:01.280 --> 01:34:07.120]  Whoever made... You need to know whose signatures on that complaint and file aggravated perjury
[01:34:07.120 --> 01:34:12.000]  charges against them. Aggravated perjury. They're trying to trump up charges is what they're trying
[01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:20.880]  to do. Exactly. They'll let one go if you'll cop to the other. So I went to do discovery at the
[01:34:20.880 --> 01:34:28.240]  prosecutor's office and I was given only a partial file. I was not allowed to view any of their
[01:34:28.240 --> 01:34:33.760]  materials and I was not allowed to meet with the prosecutor. You can't view anything that's
[01:34:33.760 --> 01:34:39.840]  considered work byproduct. This is not... Evidence is not work byproduct. Anything...
[01:34:39.840 --> 01:34:46.560]  They intend to present in court. If they don't make it available to you, you can't do anything.
[01:34:46.560 --> 01:34:50.720]  The next problem he asked for is what I'm getting at. He said he did discover. He didn't say what
[01:34:50.720 --> 01:34:56.160]  he was trying to discover. I didn't say anything specifically. I went in there and I said I wish
[01:34:56.160 --> 01:35:00.720]  for discovery. I'd like to view the file and they handed me half the file, which is fine.
[01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:06.480]  Okay. Yeah. They give you only what's going to appear in court. They will not give you their
[01:35:06.480 --> 01:35:12.240]  work byproduct or anything of that nature. The interesting thing that happened though was I
[01:35:12.240 --> 01:35:15.760]  was told that they were not... I was not allowed to make photocopies. I could make as many notes as
[01:35:15.760 --> 01:35:22.800]  I'd like. But during the process, I was not allowed to have a desk or anything. I was treated
[01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:26.560]  like an average pond scum, which the corrupt officials tend to do.
[01:35:27.440 --> 01:35:31.840]  Well, tell them to make copies of it for you and next time follow your discovery and writing
[01:35:31.840 --> 01:35:38.320]  asking for it. For copies. Yes. I wasn't too interested in it because I was intending on
[01:35:38.320 --> 01:35:44.960]  simply going in and using my high quality camera on my phone to take pictures of the paper,
[01:35:44.960 --> 01:35:53.840]  which seems appropriate, correct or incorrect? No, not correct. You want copies of what's
[01:35:53.840 --> 01:35:59.840]  in that file, not photos of it, but copies of it. Okay. So file it and write it and get copies.
[01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:08.480]  Correct. So when I... Anything you do in relation to a case, you do it in writing, always. And you
[01:36:08.480 --> 01:36:13.520]  want them to provide the copies. You can go ahead and take your photographs if you want to.
[01:36:13.520 --> 01:36:18.880]  Yeah. But you want them to provide you copies. And it's always interesting to compare the copies
[01:36:18.880 --> 01:36:26.720]  to your photographs. Yes. Secondarily, as I was taking my photographs, which I was not specifically
[01:36:26.720 --> 01:36:33.440]  asked not to do, I was accosted by the local deputy that's working in the park here's office. He
[01:36:34.320 --> 01:36:40.720]  came up to me very roughly, told me to sit down, that I may be going to jail. Took all the paperwork
[01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:46.080]  from me and then proceeded to stalk around the office. Talked with the prosecutor for a while.
[01:36:47.040 --> 01:36:51.040]  And the prosecutor apparently told him that it was within my right to take pictures
[01:36:51.040 --> 01:37:01.440]  and handed me my stuff back. But it was very brisk. Did he touch you? Did he touch you?
[01:37:01.440 --> 01:37:06.720]  He did not touch me. And charge him with a salt anyway? Charge him with a salt anyway.
[01:37:06.720 --> 01:37:14.480]  Very rough. Very rude. And I was offended. And I have a witness who is the receptionist there.
[01:37:14.480 --> 01:37:19.120]  I specifically asked for her name and got her at her feet.
[01:37:21.280 --> 01:37:27.360]  I bring a complaint against the bailiff and give it to the prosecuting attorney. Make sure you
[01:37:27.360 --> 01:37:33.840]  sworn to it before a magistrate and give it to the prosecutor. And when the prosecutor refuses
[01:37:33.840 --> 01:37:40.720]  to accept it, then file criminal charges against the prosecutor under for violating article 2.03
[01:37:40.720 --> 01:37:47.440]  code of criminal procedure. Excellent. I don't jerk a knot in his shorts. That's what I'd like
[01:37:47.440 --> 01:37:53.760]  to do. I feel like even if the work case scenario here is so they go away through it, we have a
[01:37:53.760 --> 01:38:00.160]  jury trial, my peers won't necessarily be too affected by me. I'm looking at a very small amount
[01:38:00.160 --> 01:38:11.520]  of problems overall. And I'm willing to face that, so forth, to attempt these exercises in our system.
[01:38:13.520 --> 01:38:16.160]  And I thank you gentlemen. You have been very helpful. I'll go back and let you
[01:38:16.160 --> 01:38:18.480]  be archived and review what we've talked about.
[01:38:19.440 --> 01:38:23.280]  There will be a relatively inexpensive legal education.
[01:38:23.840 --> 01:38:29.600]  Yes, quite. And I appreciate it. I will be keeping you guys informed as to the progress
[01:38:29.600 --> 01:38:33.840]  of this case. All right, Nick. Thanks for calling in. Thank you, gentlemen. Have a good evening.
[01:38:34.640 --> 01:38:41.280]  You too. All right. Now, let's see. Let's go to John in Texas. Kathy, Jason, we see
[01:38:41.280 --> 01:38:45.360]  there on the board. We'll be with you all in just a minute. John, go ahead. What can we do for you?
[01:38:45.920 --> 01:38:51.440]  Well, I'll try to be brief with respect to the other callers. I had an independent contract
[01:38:51.440 --> 01:38:57.680]  or non-disclosure agreement who I had one of my independent contractors signed. And basically,
[01:38:57.680 --> 01:39:04.160]  they breached the contract after, well, they pretty much just breached the contract. And
[01:39:04.880 --> 01:39:11.840]  it clearly states that on the contract I have in front of me, it basically says that the
[01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:19.440]  contractor, all the confidential information, which means basically,
[01:39:20.480 --> 01:39:24.560]  it says, which means any company for prior to area information, technical data, trade secrets,
[01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:30.080]  know-how, including but not limited to research products, product plans, services, customer
[01:39:30.080 --> 01:39:34.240]  lists, customers, including but not limited to customers of the company on whom the independent
[01:39:34.240 --> 01:39:41.200]  contractor called or whom he or she became acquainted during the term of the contract,
[01:39:41.200 --> 01:39:45.680]  market, software development, inventions, processes, formulas, technology, designs, drawing,
[01:39:45.680 --> 01:39:51.040]  engineering, hardware, configuration, marketing, employees, contractors, clients, vendors, finances,
[01:39:51.040 --> 01:39:54.560]  or other business information disclosed to the independent contractor. Wait a minute, hold on,
[01:39:54.560 --> 01:40:00.960]  hold on. Just tell us about what they actually violated. Okay, basically, what he did was he,
[01:40:02.160 --> 01:40:06.640]  at the same time, and there's a non-compete clause in there too, at the same time,
[01:40:07.360 --> 01:40:10.880]  and there's also a clause in there talking about how he can't work for another company
[01:40:10.880 --> 01:40:17.920]  who's competing directly with the company I work for and, you know, with my company. And
[01:40:17.920 --> 01:40:24.400]  he's been working, I guess, the whole time, to me what it seems like is, because it was a
[01:40:24.400 --> 01:40:31.440]  struggling company, what it seems like to me is since we had innovative ideas, things like that,
[01:40:31.440 --> 01:40:37.440]  that they send in a mole and he signed the contract, but he'd been working for them the whole time.
[01:40:37.440 --> 01:40:44.000]  And even when I asked him after he signed the contract, and even before and after I had asked
[01:40:44.000 --> 01:40:49.200]  him, are you employed with this company anymore? He stated to me, no, he was not, and proceeded
[01:40:49.200 --> 01:40:55.040]  to sign the contract. And, you know, we went through the whole contract and there's a thing
[01:40:55.040 --> 01:41:02.240]  in the contract at the end which states that by signing that he understands the entire agreement
[01:41:02.240 --> 01:41:10.400]  and he wasn't under any duress while signing it or under any coercion of any sort. And basically,
[01:41:10.400 --> 01:41:15.600]  he's been working for them the whole time and just kind of giving the other company information
[01:41:16.480 --> 01:41:24.080]  such as pricing information, marketing methods, things like that. Okay, okay, hold on. What is
[01:41:24.080 --> 01:41:33.680]  your question? Okay, now that he's breached the contract blatantly, I have his former, his boss,
[01:41:33.680 --> 01:41:39.920]  his other boss on record saying that he is still employed there and he even gave him the date,
[01:41:39.920 --> 01:41:46.400]  then I have a website and such with and marketing material with his phone number,
[01:41:46.400 --> 01:41:52.160]  et cetera on there. What can I do? Okay, do you have any reason to believe
[01:41:53.040 --> 01:41:58.240]  that his former boss knew that he was working for you at the same time he was working for them?
[01:41:58.240 --> 01:42:10.080]  Yes, I do because they don't don't sue this guy, sue his boss. They got deeper pockets
[01:42:10.640 --> 01:42:11.440]  in his company.
[01:42:13.600 --> 01:42:18.080]  What? Yeah, sue the company for vicarious liability.
[01:42:20.080 --> 01:42:24.640]  Okay, and what what kind of compensation? What would I base my compensation on?
[01:42:24.640 --> 01:42:30.640]  You're looking at industrial espionage or some type of espionage is what it amounts to, but you're
[01:42:30.640 --> 01:42:36.080]  looking at breach of contract and if they in any way interfered with your contracts or agreements
[01:42:36.080 --> 01:42:39.040]  with your other customers, it's tortuous interference with the contract.
[01:42:42.560 --> 01:42:46.320]  You can also sue them if they took any information from you that could be considered
[01:42:46.320 --> 01:42:52.160]  proprietary to your company, that's theft, trademark infringement, patent infringement,
[01:42:52.160 --> 01:43:01.360]  anything of that nature that may apply. Okay, so if you used marketing methods that were
[01:43:01.360 --> 01:43:06.560]  that they didn't use before, but right after you know that won't fly, you don't have a patent
[01:43:06.560 --> 01:43:12.320]  on those types of ideas. If you came up with a processor procedure that you alone knew about
[01:43:12.320 --> 01:43:18.480]  and created and patented that procedure then you would have a claim along that line.
[01:43:18.480 --> 01:43:26.000]  Okay, and as far as him lying to me and working for that other company, I mean,
[01:43:26.000 --> 01:43:29.520]  that's where your breach of contract and tortuous interference comes in,
[01:43:29.520 --> 01:43:32.800]  if you can show that they interfere with any of your customer relations.
[01:43:34.960 --> 01:43:40.240]  Okay, it's gonna, oh, I'll wait for the break. Okay, hang in there, Nick, we'll get to you,
[01:43:40.240 --> 01:43:45.520]  John, we'll get to you on the other side just a moment. All right, folks, this is rule of law radio
[01:43:45.520 --> 01:43:52.080]  512-646-1984 is the call-in number. This is Eddie Craig, Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens,
[01:43:52.080 --> 01:43:55.600]  rule of law radio, we'll be right back on the other side of the break.
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[01:45:55.440 --> 01:45:59.440]  Or call toll-free 866-LAW-E-Z.
[01:45:59.440 --> 01:46:25.440]  All right, folks, we are back, rule of law, radio.
[01:46:25.440 --> 01:46:31.840]  Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens. This is our Friday Night Info Marathon. Right now,
[01:46:31.840 --> 01:46:38.720]  we have a few callers up on the board. 512-646-1984 is the call-in number. So if you have an issue,
[01:46:38.720 --> 01:46:42.720]  give us a call. We've got a little over two hours left in the show, so we've got plenty of time at
[01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:48.640]  the moment. John, let's see if we can finish you up here. Okay, yeah. And so, like I was saying,
[01:46:48.640 --> 01:46:54.800]  it's going to be hard for me to prove that his boss had knowledge of him doing this, but
[01:46:56.000 --> 01:47:02.240]  I can prove without a doubt that he knew that he had lied to me and that he had been employed
[01:47:02.240 --> 01:47:06.800]  with the other person the same time, at the same time that he signed this contract with me.
[01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:14.240]  How do you have proof of that? Well, I have legal recordings over the phone
[01:47:14.240 --> 01:47:21.520]  that his boss stated the date and that his name and went that he was currently employed and that
[01:47:22.320 --> 01:47:29.920]  things like that. And then I have screenshots of websites, etc., with the other company's
[01:47:29.920 --> 01:47:34.480]  marketing material, and they have it dated with his name and number on it. And then,
[01:47:35.600 --> 01:47:43.200]  you know, just the fact that he's approached other companies and with, you know, representing
[01:47:43.200 --> 01:47:49.440]  this other company. You see what I mean? Yeah. Okay. Well, if you got all that, then it sounds
[01:47:49.440 --> 01:47:56.160]  like you've got what you need to base your suit on. Okay. What kind of, what I'm asking is where,
[01:47:56.160 --> 01:48:02.880]  what court would I file this in, if I can do it personally? Depends on the amount, but before I
[01:48:02.880 --> 01:48:10.880]  sign it with any court, do your homework, look up causes of action. You might see if you call
[01:48:10.880 --> 01:48:18.080]  around a few law firms and see if one of them has a outdated copy of O'Connor's causes of action.
[01:48:20.560 --> 01:48:25.840]  Generally they do. And you get that, they'll give it to you generally just to haul it off.
[01:48:27.280 --> 01:48:35.040]  And put together a claim based on, look through the causes of action and see how,
[01:48:35.040 --> 01:48:42.320]  what they're doing fits the cause of action. And then prepare a tort letter. You want to
[01:48:42.320 --> 01:48:48.560]  prepare the tort letter as near to the suit as possible, because you're telling them,
[01:48:48.560 --> 01:48:53.760]  I've been harmed by you, make me wholly be sued. And if it looks like a lawsuit,
[01:48:53.760 --> 01:49:01.360]  then it'd be clear to them that you're not just blowing smoke. And it's unlikely that they will
[01:49:01.360 --> 01:49:08.960]  want to make a deal with you, but that's a necessary step before filing suit. You have to
[01:49:08.960 --> 01:49:16.080]  notify the other party and give them opportunity to make you whole. So generally you send a tort
[01:49:16.080 --> 01:49:22.080]  letter and give them 60 days and then you sue. Okay. Because I was planning, what I was planning
[01:49:22.080 --> 01:49:28.560]  on doing was meeting up with them tomorrow and giving him an alternative to me suing him and
[01:49:28.560 --> 01:49:34.480]  telling him, you know, you could either get sued or this, or we can go another route and you could
[01:49:34.480 --> 01:49:39.440]  complete half of your contract. I'll let you out of the contract and you sign this other papers
[01:49:39.440 --> 01:49:47.040]  stating that you won't, you know, that you're going to quit this other company, etc. And that I
[01:49:47.040 --> 01:49:53.280]  need within, you know, 48 hours that I need confirmation with your boss signing that you
[01:49:53.280 --> 01:49:58.720]  have quit that company. Well, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're actually going to trust a guy that's
[01:49:58.720 --> 01:50:04.000]  already lied to you in one contractual mode to honor a second contractual mode that he's not
[01:50:04.000 --> 01:50:09.040]  going to lie to you anymore. Well, something wrong with his picture here that the court, I want to
[01:50:09.040 --> 01:50:15.360]  make sure that the court sees that I've made every attempt to reach to make this gentleman, uh,
[01:50:16.080 --> 01:50:21.280]  you know, that I'm not just some sort of a crazy business person that's coming at him,
[01:50:21.280 --> 01:50:25.680]  just to come at him that I want, I've made every attempt to, to, uh, well, but if you've got the
[01:50:25.680 --> 01:50:30.960]  evidence you're talking about, that's already proven. There's no reason to show that you're
[01:50:30.960 --> 01:50:35.440]  willing to make a foolish offer that could endanger you further to impress the court.
[01:50:38.000 --> 01:50:40.560]  Okay, so let's say if the amount, if I just want to see, let's say for,
[01:50:42.080 --> 01:50:45.840]  for, because on the, on the agreement, it says that any breach of contract that you'll
[01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:52.480]  automatically pretty much owe me $3,500 just for any, but you, okay, that's automatic. You can
[01:50:52.480 --> 01:50:57.360]  claim a greater harm than that. I would suggest that if you wanted to quit this other company,
[01:50:58.000 --> 01:51:01.600]  is don't, uh, negotiate with him, negotiate with the other company.
[01:51:03.360 --> 01:51:07.280]  You go to the other company and notify them that they have harmed you
[01:51:08.160 --> 01:51:13.360]  by interf, tortuous interference with contract by trade right infringements,
[01:51:13.360 --> 01:51:21.040]  anything you think of and throw a big number at him and say, pay me this much and to make
[01:51:21.040 --> 01:51:27.600]  me whole and be sued. Well, now there is one possibility, Randy. If this guy signed a contract
[01:51:27.600 --> 01:51:34.480]  with John while still working for the other company, then the other company is committing
[01:51:34.480 --> 01:51:37.600]  tortuous interference with John's contract with the other guy.
[01:51:37.600 --> 01:51:47.520]  You lost that again. I didn't, yeah, I didn't get it. The original company, the guy allegedly no
[01:51:47.520 --> 01:51:52.880]  longer works for, he signed a contract with you stating he doesn't work with anybody else. He
[01:51:52.880 --> 01:52:00.240]  works for you now, right? Yes. But now he's actually working for the other company. Now,
[01:52:00.240 --> 01:52:05.040]  let's assume for a second that we can convince the court. He told us the truth originally
[01:52:05.040 --> 01:52:10.320]  and that he was not currently employed by the other company at that particular moment.
[01:52:11.280 --> 01:52:17.440]  Now they come back and take your employee and bring him into their phone to work against you.
[01:52:18.080 --> 01:52:22.800]  Now they're committing tortuous interference with a contract between you and this guy.
[01:52:26.800 --> 01:52:32.800]  Okay, that ups the stakes. That's a good point. You want to shot at the other company.
[01:52:32.800 --> 01:52:37.760]  If you want him not to work for that other company, it's a good way to get him to fire his behind.
[01:52:39.200 --> 01:52:44.240]  Okay, and I mean, so would it, just because I have the evidence on him and not the other
[01:52:44.240 --> 01:52:48.800]  company at this point, would it make more sense for me to go after him and just
[01:52:48.800 --> 01:52:53.120]  kind of the knockout or try to go after the other company and take my chances?
[01:52:53.840 --> 01:52:56.880]  Go after, well, you go after both of them. They're not exclusive.
[01:52:56.880 --> 01:53:06.720]  But going after the other company gives you leverage. You have them on breach of contract.
[01:53:06.720 --> 01:53:11.600]  You have them under that argument. You have them on tortuous interference with a contract.
[01:53:12.160 --> 01:53:18.480]  You don't have to separate the two. Okay. Plus you have them on a number of other issues.
[01:53:18.480 --> 01:53:25.280]  They knew? Yeah, they knew. They used their employee to steal your trade secrets. You got
[01:53:25.280 --> 01:53:31.200]  lots of claims against them. Okay, what if, how am I going to, what is a good way for me to prove
[01:53:31.200 --> 01:53:37.680]  that they, they kind of... No, wait a minute. You're missing something. This is not the place
[01:53:37.680 --> 01:53:42.400]  to prove. You can't, you won't be able to have to prove it until you've been through discovery.
[01:53:44.000 --> 01:53:50.000]  You have enough information to make the accusation. That gets you in the door.
[01:53:50.960 --> 01:53:54.720]  You don't have to have conclusive proof when you make the accusation. You just have to have
[01:53:54.720 --> 01:53:58.720]  reasonable cause. And that's how you have to prove it's reasonable cause in a civil matter.
[01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:06.560]  Once you make the accusation, then you go through discovery and discover their documents that'll
[01:54:06.560 --> 01:54:12.160]  prove up your case. Yeah, and the benefit of this is, is that they cannot turn around and
[01:54:12.160 --> 01:54:17.840]  come after you for tortuous interference with a contract with their employee because it was their
[01:54:17.840 --> 01:54:23.200]  employee who came to you and signed paperwork stating that he had nothing to do with the other
[01:54:23.200 --> 01:54:28.800]  company. So there's no chance of them coming back on you through this same argument.
[01:54:30.640 --> 01:54:36.880]  Okay, so basically they're not going to come back on me and say that I stole their employee away
[01:54:36.880 --> 01:54:42.320]  from them or whatnot. Correct, because the employee came to you directly. The only way
[01:54:42.320 --> 01:54:47.680]  they could begin to do that is if the employee lies through his teeth and said you came there
[01:54:47.680 --> 01:54:53.600]  soliciting his services and employment with your company while he was still employed with them.
[01:54:56.480 --> 01:55:02.880]  Okay. In which case you have a signed contract, you have a signed contract that he admitted that
[01:55:02.880 --> 01:55:08.240]  that was not the case. So he's either committing perjury through the signing of the contract
[01:55:08.240 --> 01:55:11.600]  or he'll be committing perjury in court if he testifies that way.
[01:55:11.600 --> 01:55:22.160]  Okay. Okay, so if he signed the contract with the intent of committing fraud,
[01:55:22.160 --> 01:55:23.840]  now he's in real trouble.
[01:55:26.240 --> 01:55:29.840]  Okay, so if he signed the contract with the intent of trying to steal my stuff,
[01:55:31.520 --> 01:55:37.040]  then he perpetrated fraud. That's another cause of action you have against him and his company.
[01:55:37.040 --> 01:55:42.000]  Yeah, if you have reason to believe he was working for the other company at the time,
[01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:45.200]  did you have reason to believe the other company put him up to it?
[01:55:47.200 --> 01:55:56.480]  Okay. Okay, well, does it matter if I came about this employee because he was trying to,
[01:55:57.840 --> 01:56:02.720]  I guess, solicit some sort of business for me on knowing that I had a similar business and
[01:56:02.720 --> 01:56:08.000]  then he started complaining about his pay and how he wasn't treated correctly and all that stuff.
[01:56:08.000 --> 01:56:15.120]  And then I told him, well, you know, we could talk about it. And after about a week,
[01:56:16.720 --> 01:56:20.400]  it's legal to steal other people's employees. Excuse me?
[01:56:21.440 --> 01:56:26.400]  Yeah, it is. He said it's legal to steal other people's employees.
[01:56:27.520 --> 01:56:31.520]  You just offered him a better deal. He makes the choice to come to you or not.
[01:56:31.520 --> 01:56:40.080]  Yeah, I had no intention of stealing the other company's information or anything like that.
[01:56:41.760 --> 01:56:43.840]  Not employee, not information.
[01:56:45.280 --> 01:56:49.680]  Yeah, and the employee here, not the information of the other company.
[01:56:50.320 --> 01:56:54.320]  You can hire somebody else's employees away. There's nothing wrong with that.
[01:56:55.520 --> 01:57:00.320]  Okay. And the argument we're using against them is that they intentionally use this
[01:57:00.320 --> 01:57:06.160]  guy on the inside of your company to gain access to your methods and practices.
[01:57:08.080 --> 01:57:11.200]  Okay. And despite the fact that you had a contract with this gentleman,
[01:57:11.200 --> 01:57:16.800]  that he was not to divulge that information, that's tortuous interference with the contract.
[01:57:19.040 --> 01:57:22.640]  Okay. And then I can seek monetary damage based on that, correct?
[01:57:23.360 --> 01:57:30.000]  Correct. And since you can maintain that it was intentional
[01:57:30.000 --> 01:57:35.920]  fraud, you go for a travel permit. Because that would be a long drawn out process.
[01:57:35.920 --> 01:57:40.480]  But I offer him, say, look, you can pay me this amount and we can just forget about it.
[01:57:40.480 --> 01:57:43.520]  Or you can go to court and I'll pretty much bankrupt you.
[01:57:44.880 --> 01:57:49.600]  Yeah, you can do that. And as Randy was saying, if you can make the argument that it was
[01:57:49.600 --> 01:57:54.800]  intentionally appropriated fraud, then you can sue him for three times your damages.
[01:57:54.800 --> 01:57:59.520]  And that's not criminal though, right? That's still civil.
[01:58:01.680 --> 01:58:04.720]  Well, fraud is criminal no matter how you look at it.
[01:58:04.720 --> 01:58:08.320]  Yeah, depends on the details. Yes, that would go to criminal.
[01:58:09.920 --> 01:58:12.400]  But you still can only sue in the civil.
[01:58:13.520 --> 01:58:15.760]  Okay. So I would sue in the civil for, let's say,
[01:58:15.760 --> 01:58:25.360]  okay, why would sue in the civil, let's say for just the damages up to that point, correct?
[01:58:26.480 --> 01:58:27.280]  Right.
[01:58:27.280 --> 01:58:31.200]  Up to three times as much if you can show that it was intentional.
[01:58:32.640 --> 01:58:36.080]  Okay. Well, thanks guys for answering my questions. I know you got other callers,
[01:58:36.080 --> 01:58:37.360]  but I appreciate your help.
[01:58:38.160 --> 01:58:38.960]  Yeah, no problem.
[01:58:39.680 --> 01:58:43.840]  All right, folks, this is Rule of Law Radio. Kathy, Jason, we see you on the board there.
[01:58:43.840 --> 01:58:48.640]  Please hang on. We're going to our top of the hour break. We have two hours left in the show.
[01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:52.560]  Five, one, two, six, four, six, 1984 is the call-in number.
[01:58:52.560 --> 01:58:55.600]  So y'all hang in there and we will get to you on the other side of the break.
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