[00:11.000 --> 00:16.000]  gave the CIA the green light to use waterboarding on terror suspects in 2002
[00:16.000 --> 00:22.000]  after Attorney General John Ashcroft concluded such torture was lawful.
[00:22.000 --> 00:26.000]  The International Monetary Fund said Wednesday the global recession will be deeper
[00:26.000 --> 00:29.000]  and the recovery slower than previously thought.
[00:29.000 --> 00:34.000]  The IMF forecast the world economy will shrink 1.3% this year.
[00:34.000 --> 00:40.000]  IMF Chief Economist Olivier Blanchard said while a recovery will start early next year,
[00:40.000 --> 00:44.000]  a return to normal will take much longer.
[00:44.000 --> 00:48.000]  House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers says he will hold hearings
[00:48.000 --> 00:54.000]  on the Bush administration's legal memos justifying enhanced interrogation techniques.
[00:54.000 --> 00:59.000]  Conyers and other Democrats have labeled as torture the techniques explained in the memos
[00:59.000 --> 01:04.000]  which provided a legal framework for the use of waterboarding.
[01:04.000 --> 01:09.000]  Top of the hour news brought to you by INEN World Report.
[01:09.000 --> 01:15.000]  The George Bush legacy continued to dog the Obama administration Wednesday
[01:15.000 --> 01:21.000]  as Congress divided over creating a panel to investigate the harsh interrogation techniques
[01:21.000 --> 01:23.000]  employed during the Bush years.
[01:23.000 --> 01:28.000]  The White House tried to contain the controversy over the President's decision
[01:28.000 --> 01:32.000]  to release Justice Department memos outlining those procedures.
[01:32.000 --> 01:38.000]  Barack Obama had hoped to put the whole matter behind him by banning those interrogation methods
[01:38.000 --> 01:46.000]  and then releasing the memos with the proviso that no CIA official who carried out interrogations should be prosecuted.
[01:46.000 --> 01:51.000]  Instead, the latest decision has stirred controversy right and left.
[01:51.000 --> 01:57.000]  Obama drew sharp criticism from Dick Cheney, former CIA directors and Republicans
[01:57.000 --> 02:02.000]  for releasing the memos saying the threat of terrorism justifies torture.
[02:02.000 --> 02:07.000]  Obama faces equally strong reaction from the left where there is a desire to punish
[02:07.000 --> 02:12.000]  Bush administration officials and conduct a thorough investigation.
[02:12.000 --> 02:17.000]  In New Orleans, six plaintiffs are suing the Army Corps of Engineers over the creation
[02:17.000 --> 02:22.000]  and maintenance of the Mississippi River Gulf outlet known as Mr. Go,
[02:22.000 --> 02:28.000]  a channel they say introduced fatal risk to a fragile levee protection system.
[02:28.000 --> 02:33.000]  The government argues the magnitude of the storm caused the flooding of New Orleans,
[02:33.000 --> 02:39.000]  the deaths of more than 700 residents and $90 billion in damage across the region.
[02:39.000 --> 02:44.000]  A win by the six hurricane survivors in this first real Katrina trial could pave the way
[02:44.000 --> 02:48.000]  for a class action lawsuit against the Corps of Engineers.
[02:48.000 --> 02:52.000]  But for many, the Go trial represents their own form of truth commission.
[03:02.000 --> 03:07.000]  This April will mark 14 years since the Oklahoma City bombing claimed 169 lives.
[03:07.000 --> 03:12.000]  Monday, April 20th at 7 p.m. Brave New Books in Austin, Texas
[03:12.000 --> 03:15.000]  is presenting a discussion by the hosts of Radio Free Oklahoma,
[03:15.000 --> 03:18.000]  addressing many unanswered questions about that tragedy.
[03:18.000 --> 03:22.000]  Did you know that there was more than one bomb involved in this tragedy?
[03:22.000 --> 03:27.000]  Did you know that there are many concrete links between the Oklahoma City bombing and 9-11?
[03:27.000 --> 03:32.000]  Did you know that current Attorney General Eric Holder was directly involved with a cover-up
[03:32.000 --> 03:34.000]  following the Oklahoma City bombing?
[03:34.000 --> 03:40.000]  Monday, April 20th at 7 p.m. at Brave New Books, Chris Emery, Andrew Griffin and Holland Vandenewenoff
[03:40.000 --> 03:44.000]  will be discussing the results of their investigation into the Oklahoma City bombing.
[03:44.000 --> 03:50.000]  This event will also be broadcast on the Rule of Law radio program hosted by Deborah Stevens and Randy Kelton.
[03:50.000 --> 03:56.000]  For more information, go to bravenewbookstore.com or ruleoflawradio.com.
[03:56.000 --> 04:11.000]  The Oklahoma City bombing, 14 years later, still seeking the truth.
[04:27.000 --> 04:33.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[04:33.000 --> 04:39.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[04:39.000 --> 04:44.000]  When you were eight and you had bad dreams, you'd go to school and learn the golden rule.
[04:44.000 --> 04:50.000]  So why are you acting like a bloody fool? If you get hot then you must get cool.
[04:50.000 --> 05:01.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[05:01.000 --> 05:06.000]  You chuck it on that run, you chuck it on this run, you chuck it on your mother and you chuck it on your father,
[05:06.000 --> 05:12.000]  you chuck it on your brother and you chuck it on your sister, you chuck it on that run and you chuck it on me!
[05:12.000 --> 05:17.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[05:17.000 --> 05:30.600]  Bad boys, bad boys What you gonna do?
[05:30.600 --> 05:41.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[06:11.000 --> 06:34.480]  Why did you have to ask so mean Don't you know you're a human being
[06:34.480 --> 06:39.480]  Born of a mother with a lover for father Reflection comes and reflection goes
[06:39.480 --> 06:50.200]  I know sometimes you want to let go Hey, hey, hey I know sometimes you want to let go
[06:50.200 --> 07:01.400]  Bad boys, bad boys, are what you're going to do Are what you're going to do when they come for you
[07:01.400 --> 07:10.780]  You're too bad, you're too rude, You're too bad, you're too dro theory
[07:11.500 --> 07:13.520]  Bad boys, bad boys
[07:13.520 --> 07:17.680]  Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you
[07:17.680 --> 07:19.080]  Bad boys, bad boys
[07:19.080 --> 07:22.740]  Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you
[07:22.940 --> 07:24.940]  The chok kit on that one, the chok kit on this one
[07:25.100 --> 07:27.100]  The chok kit on your mother
[07:27.100 --> 07:29.000]  and the chok kit on your father
[07:29.000 --> 07:31.000]  You chuck it on your brother and you chuck it on your sister
[07:31.000 --> 07:33.000]  You chuck it on that one and you chuck it on me
[07:33.000 --> 07:35.000]  Bad boys, bad boys
[07:35.000 --> 07:37.000]  Whatcha gonna do?
[07:37.000 --> 07:39.000]  Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[07:39.000 --> 07:41.000]  Bad boys, bad boys
[07:41.000 --> 07:43.000]  Whatcha gonna do?
[07:43.000 --> 07:45.000]  Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[07:45.000 --> 07:47.000]  Bad boys, bad boys
[07:51.000 --> 07:55.000]  Alright, this goes out to all the adolescent powers that be
[07:55.000 --> 07:59.000]  You know who you are, you might even be the president
[08:03.000 --> 08:07.000]  Please don't chase the angels away
[08:09.000 --> 08:13.000]  Please don't do that, cause you need them always
[08:15.000 --> 08:19.000]  If you chase them they might never come back
[08:19.000 --> 08:23.000]  If they never come again
[08:23.000 --> 08:25.000]  I think the future's looking thin
[08:25.000 --> 08:29.000]  Yeah, you know who they are
[08:29.000 --> 08:32.000]  They might be riding with you in your car
[08:32.000 --> 08:35.000]  Might be the one in your living room
[08:35.000 --> 08:38.000]  Might have an appointment with one soon
[08:38.000 --> 08:41.000]  Could be a brother or a son
[08:41.000 --> 08:45.000]  Could be a mother or a girl
[08:45.000 --> 08:48.000]  One thing I know
[08:48.000 --> 08:51.000]  There's angels in this world
[08:51.000 --> 08:54.000]  And if you don't believe me
[08:54.000 --> 08:57.000]  If you're trying to deceive me
[08:57.000 --> 09:00.000]  Why you gotta be so rude?
[09:00.000 --> 09:04.000]  You know a punk ass attitude
[09:04.000 --> 09:09.000]  Just might chase the angels away
[09:09.000 --> 09:12.000]  Please don't do that
[09:12.000 --> 09:21.000]  Then I'm required to stay
[09:21.000 --> 09:31.000]  Yeah, I really hope they choose to stick around
[09:31.000 --> 09:34.000]  I really need them in this town
[09:34.000 --> 09:38.000]  They always make good sounds when they come around
[09:38.000 --> 09:41.000]  I really hope they choose to stick around
[09:41.000 --> 09:44.000]  I really hope they choose to stick around
[09:44.000 --> 09:47.000]  I really need them in this town
[09:47.000 --> 09:53.000]  They always make good sounds when they come around
[09:53.000 --> 09:58.000]  So please don't chase the angels away
[09:58.000 --> 10:01.000]  We really need them
[10:01.000 --> 10:04.000]  They're not required to stay
[10:04.000 --> 10:07.000]  Cause if you chase them
[10:07.000 --> 10:10.000]  They might never come back
[10:10.000 --> 10:14.000]  If they never come again
[10:14.000 --> 10:17.000]  If the future's looking down
[10:17.000 --> 10:23.000]  We're gonna chase them
[10:23.000 --> 10:28.000]  Designate that as a criminal act
[10:28.000 --> 10:37.000]  Simply that the acts entered into by the board in such a meeting were voidable
[10:37.000 --> 10:41.000]  Didn't even say they were void
[10:41.000 --> 10:45.000]  However, I think we could really shake them up anyway
[10:45.000 --> 10:48.000]  By accusing them of violating the act
[10:48.000 --> 10:52.000]  And essentially a violation of
[10:52.000 --> 10:56.000]  I think it's 551 government code
[10:56.000 --> 11:02.000]  Is a class A misdemeanor
[11:02.000 --> 11:04.000]  So that could be a hoot
[11:04.000 --> 11:08.000]  And if they get convicted of it
[11:08.000 --> 11:11.000]  They could be removed for a warrant immediately
[11:11.000 --> 11:14.000]  She could wipe the whole board out
[11:14.000 --> 11:19.000]  That's if I can find the proviso that makes it a crime for them to meet
[11:19.000 --> 11:25.000]  Outside the normal meeting place
[11:25.000 --> 11:30.000]  Without notice
[11:30.000 --> 11:33.000]  And what I've seen on notice
[11:33.000 --> 11:36.000]  It seems that a normal meeting of a board
[11:36.000 --> 11:40.000]  If they meet at the same time, same place every time
[11:40.000 --> 11:44.000]  Then they don't have to notice that they're gonna meet that time
[11:44.000 --> 11:47.000]  If they're gonna discuss certain things
[11:47.000 --> 11:50.000]  Like if they're gonna go into executive session
[11:50.000 --> 11:55.000]  They can't do that without it being posted 72 hours prior
[11:55.000 --> 11:59.000]  But they could go into executive session
[11:59.000 --> 12:03.000]  To talk to their attorney without it being on the agenda
[12:03.000 --> 12:06.000]  Or being noticed ahead of time
[12:06.000 --> 12:09.000]  And apparently that's because it could
[12:09.000 --> 12:11.000]  Come up all at once
[12:11.000 --> 12:15.000]  In the process of a meeting where they run into a legal problem
[12:15.000 --> 12:19.000]  They can go in and talk to their attorney without violating the act
[12:19.000 --> 12:23.000]  I have had experience with this myself in the past
[12:23.000 --> 12:30.000]  Wherein my daughter came to me and asked me to go to the school board meeting
[12:30.000 --> 12:34.000]  Because the Spanish teacher might quit
[12:34.000 --> 12:38.000]  Over an issue over grades
[12:38.000 --> 12:42.000]  And I said well if your Spanish teacher quits
[12:42.000 --> 12:44.000]  They'll get another Spanish teacher
[12:44.000 --> 12:48.000]  And she said well dad if we get a new Spanish teacher
[12:48.000 --> 12:51.000]  He'll expect me to know first year Spanish
[12:51.000 --> 12:55.000]  I said Robin you get straight A's
[12:55.000 --> 12:59.000]  She said I know dad but he would expect me to know first year Spanish
[12:59.000 --> 13:02.000]  Okay I'm coming
[13:02.000 --> 13:07.000]  It turned out that this Spanish teacher had given
[13:07.000 --> 13:13.000]  A failing grade to two kids in one of the classes
[13:13.000 --> 13:20.000]  Because they disagreed with her on a pronunciation
[13:20.000 --> 13:24.000]  It turned out that one of them was class salutatorian
[13:24.000 --> 13:29.000]  And the other one was an exchange student
[13:29.000 --> 13:32.000]  From Spain
[13:32.000 --> 13:37.000]  Spanish was his native tongue
[13:37.000 --> 13:45.000]  So if anybody should know how to pronounce the word
[13:45.000 --> 13:47.000]  It should have been him
[13:47.000 --> 13:51.000]  And at the meeting they decided to go into executive session
[13:51.000 --> 13:54.000]  And the president of the school board happened to be a personal friend of mine
[13:54.000 --> 13:59.000]  And I rose to a question of privilege affecting the board
[13:59.000 --> 14:04.000]  And Mark Autry who was the
[14:04.000 --> 14:07.000]  He was a captain on the sheriff's department at the time
[14:07.000 --> 14:09.000]  And president of the school board
[14:09.000 --> 14:14.000]  He didn't know what a question of privilege affecting the board was
[14:14.000 --> 14:20.000]  A question of privilege is where the board is about to take an action
[14:20.000 --> 14:22.000]  That if they take the action
[14:22.000 --> 14:26.000]  They will create a harm that cannot be undone
[14:26.000 --> 14:31.000]  So if someone rises to a question of privilege they take the floor
[14:31.000 --> 14:35.000]  And he gave me the floor and I told him that if you go into executive session
[14:35.000 --> 14:37.000]  For the stated cause
[14:37.000 --> 14:42.000]  You'll be in violation of 6252-17a the open meetings act
[14:42.000 --> 14:46.000]  He said well Mr. Kelton we're going to go into executive session
[14:46.000 --> 14:54.000]  If you go into executive session for the stated cause you'll be in violation of 6252-17a the open meetings act
[14:54.000 --> 14:59.000]  And I'll consider it my civic duty to go across the hall here
[14:59.000 --> 15:03.000]  And call the sheriff's department and ask them to come out here and arrest every one of you
[15:03.000 --> 15:07.000]  He said well Mr. Kelton we all have to do what we have to do
[15:07.000 --> 15:10.000]  Well Mark I'm glad you see it that way
[15:10.000 --> 15:14.000]  They went into executive session and I went and called the sheriff and asked them to come in and arrest all of them
[15:14.000 --> 15:17.000]  They told me I had to call the chief of police
[15:17.000 --> 15:22.000]  Well I talked to the chief of police the next day and he was also a personal friend of mine
[15:22.000 --> 15:27.000]  Told him Tom you need to come to the next school board meeting
[15:27.000 --> 15:33.000]  And knowing who I was he said yeah and why do you want me to come to the next school board meeting
[15:33.000 --> 15:36.000]  He said well they've been going into executive session in violation of the open meetings act
[15:36.000 --> 15:42.000]  And if they do that again I want you to be there so you see and hear it occur and then I'm going to want you to arrest every one of them
[15:42.000 --> 15:47.000]  He said Randy I'll shoot you myself
[15:47.000 --> 15:52.000]  Nobody's up for a little excitement
[15:52.000 --> 15:57.000]  I didn't get them arrested but they didn't pull that crapola anymore either
[15:57.000 --> 16:02.000]  Deb we got our guest up yet?
[16:02.000 --> 16:05.000]  We're going to get her up on the break
[16:05.000 --> 16:13.000]  So anyway I have some experience with open meetings and it's clearly improper
[16:13.000 --> 16:18.000]  For members of a board to even gather together
[16:18.000 --> 16:23.000]  I'm looking through Lexis now trying to find case law on it which I haven't quite found yet
[16:23.000 --> 16:30.000]  But if they meet in quorum outside of a proper meeting
[16:30.000 --> 16:35.000]  At least they can be accused whether I can get them prosecuted or not we'll see
[16:35.000 --> 16:40.000]  Well certainly they're not allowed to do it by law
[16:40.000 --> 16:44.000]  Alright we will be right back with our guest Erica Greengown we're going to break and we will be right back
[16:44.000 --> 16:49.000]  This is the rule of law Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
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[18:29.000 --> 18:34.000]  All right, this is the rule of law Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
[18:34.000 --> 18:39.000]  Here on ruleoflawradio.com
[18:39.000 --> 18:44.000]  And callers, callers, callers
[18:44.000 --> 18:49.000]  All right, this is the rule of law Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
[18:49.000 --> 18:54.000]  Here on ruleoflawradio.com
[18:54.000 --> 18:59.000]  And callers, I'm sorry, the phone lines are down right now
[18:59.000 --> 19:04.000]  The phone bridge itself is working but there's a problem with my phone line
[19:04.000 --> 19:09.000]  We must have some bad weather, the squirrels have chewed the line again
[19:09.000 --> 19:14.000]  Which they do about four times a year over here
[19:14.000 --> 19:19.000]  So at any rate, we can't take calls but we do have Erica Greenon on the line
[19:19.000 --> 19:24.000]  Who is running for city council in Pflugerville
[19:24.000 --> 19:29.000]  Which is of course in Williamson County
[19:29.000 --> 19:34.000]  Erica, thank you for joining the show
[19:34.000 --> 19:39.000]  Pflugerville is actually in Travis County, most of it is in Travis
[19:39.000 --> 19:44.000]  I know quite a considerable part of it is in Williamson County
[19:44.000 --> 19:49.000]  Right, right, they're annexing a lot of, it's getting bigger
[19:49.000 --> 19:54.000]  Good, okay, well can you, so explain to us the situation about this fundraiser
[19:54.000 --> 19:59.000]  And the fact that there were multiple members of city council from Pflugerville
[19:59.000 --> 20:04.000]  At this fundraiser
[20:04.000 --> 20:09.000]  Okay, well somebody I know was invited to this fundraiser, it was by invite only
[20:09.000 --> 20:14.000]  And they called me the day after and they said that my opponent held a fundraiser
[20:14.000 --> 20:19.000]  And he invited all but one member of city council
[20:19.000 --> 20:24.000]  So four out of five city council were present at the fundraiser, the mayor was there
[20:24.000 --> 20:30.000]  As well as developers and people in the community was trying to raise money for his campaign
[20:30.000 --> 20:36.000]  And he told me that I needed to look into that being a violation of Texas state law
[20:36.000 --> 20:41.000]  Because he said they had a quorum and they were discussing things like light rail and taxes
[20:41.000 --> 20:46.000]  And things that they would potentially be voting on in city council
[20:46.000 --> 20:51.000]  That's basically what I know, somebody who was there called me and gave me the information
[20:51.000 --> 20:56.000]  And I'm kind of trying to figure out what exactly to do with it
[20:56.000 --> 21:01.000]  Well, under the open meetings act
[21:01.000 --> 21:06.000]  If the board meets in quorum, they must give notice prior to the meeting
[21:06.000 --> 21:11.000]  And I think it's 72 hours
[21:11.000 --> 21:16.000]  I'm backing out of Lexus here to find the right one
[21:16.000 --> 21:21.000]  To find the statute, but if they, from what I understand
[21:21.000 --> 21:26.000]  If a quorum of the board is in a restaurant together
[21:26.000 --> 21:31.000]  That's improper
[21:31.000 --> 21:33.000]  Right, that's what I've heard
[21:33.000 --> 21:38.000]  Like if you have five and two are in a restaurant and a third one comes in
[21:38.000 --> 21:43.000]  You would have to sit across the restaurant, they couldn't sit together where they could talk
[21:43.000 --> 21:48.000]  Right, and I've also heard that they'll wear name tags sometimes
[21:48.000 --> 21:53.000]  Saying that I will not discuss city business and they'll wear those name tags
[21:53.000 --> 21:56.000]  If they all ever happen to be in the same place
[21:56.000 --> 22:01.000]  Well now, what Randy was telling me is, and from my understanding of the open meetings act as well
[22:01.000 --> 22:04.000]  They can't even be together
[22:04.000 --> 22:07.000]  Even if they're not discussing city business
[22:07.000 --> 22:11.000]  They can't, yeah, they can't even meet in quorum
[22:11.000 --> 22:15.000]  I mean, and some people will say, well that's not fair
[22:15.000 --> 22:20.000]  I mean, what if they wanted to, you know, with people on city council who are members of city council
[22:20.000 --> 22:26.000]  Or friends and they want to go have a drink in a bar or go out to eat afterwards
[22:26.000 --> 22:29.000]  It's like, no, sorry, they can't
[22:29.000 --> 22:33.000]  I mean, when people set themselves up as public officials or public servants
[22:33.000 --> 22:37.000]  Their activities are restricted as well it should be
[22:37.000 --> 22:42.000]  Right, if you, go ahead
[22:42.000 --> 22:47.000]  I've heard that too, just that they're always, that they have a
[22:47.000 --> 22:51.000]  Whenever you get elected to city council or anything, you have to go through training
[22:51.000 --> 22:55.000]  And they knew what they were doing, they knew they were breaking the law
[22:55.000 --> 22:58.000]  And they knew that they weren't all supposed to be together like that
[22:58.000 --> 23:01.000]  Is what my understanding of the situation is
[23:01.000 --> 23:04.000]  They're required to know
[23:04.000 --> 23:06.000]  They have to know
[23:06.000 --> 23:08.000]  And if they don't know, it's too bad
[23:08.000 --> 23:12.000]  I mean, actually according to Supreme Court case, law screws versus US
[23:12.000 --> 23:14.000]  They're held to a much higher standard of law
[23:14.000 --> 23:18.000]  I mean, we all know, well, ignorance of the law is no excuse
[23:18.000 --> 23:20.000]  Well, for them, it's really no excuse
[23:20.000 --> 23:22.000]  They're held to a higher standard
[23:22.000 --> 23:24.000]  They have to know
[23:24.000 --> 23:27.000]  And if they don't know and they proceed anyway, it's a crime
[23:27.000 --> 23:31.000]  Class A misdemeanor in Texas for violating the Open Meetings Act
[23:34.000 --> 23:40.000]  Yes, I'm looking at 551-041
[23:40.000 --> 23:45.000]  A governmental body shall give written notice of the date, hour, place, and subject
[23:45.000 --> 23:49.000]  Of each meeting held by the governmental body
[23:49.000 --> 23:53.000]  Now, in the code itself
[23:53.000 --> 23:56.000]  In looking through the annotations
[23:56.000 --> 24:01.000]  They're saying how if they come to
[24:01.000 --> 24:04.000]  If they take some action
[24:04.000 --> 24:07.000]  In a meeting that's not properly noticed
[24:07.000 --> 24:10.000]  The action is voidable
[24:10.000 --> 24:14.000]  And in going through this
[24:14.000 --> 24:20.000]  There's a lot of annotations about when they can have a meeting and not notice
[24:20.000 --> 24:25.000]  Say a meeting that's held at the same time, same place
[24:25.000 --> 24:27.000]  On a regular basis
[24:27.000 --> 24:30.000]  Doesn't necessarily need to be noticed
[24:30.000 --> 24:32.000]  Because then it becomes common knowledge
[24:32.000 --> 24:34.000]  That this particular meeting, like a school board
[24:34.000 --> 24:38.000]  Another board that always meets, same time, same place
[24:38.000 --> 24:40.000]  But if they discuss
[24:40.000 --> 24:43.000]  If they go into executive session, that has to be noticed
[24:43.000 --> 24:46.000]  72 hours prior
[24:46.000 --> 24:51.000]  And there are a number of other notice requirements
[24:51.000 --> 24:56.000]  But in the annotations here, it doesn't address
[24:56.000 --> 24:59.000]  The individual responsibility
[24:59.000 --> 25:02.000]  I haven't found meeting in quorum yet
[25:02.000 --> 25:06.000]  I did a search on Lexis and got no hits
[25:06.000 --> 25:11.000]  But we can always drag out 39.03
[25:11.000 --> 25:15.000]  39.03 penal code
[25:15.000 --> 25:21.000]  And it says that if a public official violates a law relating to his office
[25:21.000 --> 25:27.000]  And 551.041 is certainly a law relating to their office
[25:27.000 --> 25:32.000]  And denies a citizen full and free access to and joint with any right
[25:32.000 --> 25:37.000]  Which would be to deny a citizen a public court
[25:37.000 --> 25:41.000]  In violation of 1.24 code of criminal procedure
[25:41.000 --> 25:45.000]  Then that's a class A misdemeanor in Texas
[25:45.000 --> 25:50.000]  And if a public official is indicted
[25:50.000 --> 25:54.000]  For violating a law relating to his office
[25:54.000 --> 25:59.000]  Then the official is to be removed
[25:59.000 --> 26:03.000]  From office immediately
[26:03.000 --> 26:08.000]  Now wouldn't that be interesting
[26:08.000 --> 26:14.000]  What about the mayor being there?
[26:14.000 --> 26:18.000]  Should they all possibly get in trouble for this?
[26:18.000 --> 26:21.000]  Absolutely, and they all should get in trouble for this
[26:21.000 --> 26:25.000]  Now Randy, here's another interesting dynamic to this situation
[26:25.000 --> 26:29.000]  The election is in progress right now
[26:29.000 --> 26:33.000]  And so when they committed this crime
[26:33.000 --> 26:36.000]  It was prior to the election
[26:36.000 --> 26:39.000]  But say if they get reelected
[26:39.000 --> 26:43.000]  Can they be removed from office for committing this crime
[26:43.000 --> 26:47.000]  When they held office during the previous session
[26:47.000 --> 26:51.000]  Because if we go to get them removed now, well then they get elected again
[26:51.000 --> 26:55.000]  And then they're in again, I mean how does that dynamic affect this situation?
[26:55.000 --> 26:58.000]  I have come across that before
[26:58.000 --> 27:05.000]  And no, if they commit a crime
[27:05.000 --> 27:09.000]  In a different electoral period
[27:09.000 --> 27:14.000]  As I recall, there may be some mitigating factors here
[27:14.000 --> 27:18.000]  Since it was so close to the election
[27:18.000 --> 27:22.000]  But as I recall
[27:22.000 --> 27:25.000]  There was a case about a judge
[27:25.000 --> 27:28.000]  That had committed a crime in office
[27:28.000 --> 27:30.000]  And had gotten reelected
[27:30.000 --> 27:34.000]  And a move was made to have him removed
[27:34.000 --> 27:37.000]  And the courts held that they could not
[27:37.000 --> 27:41.000]  That he was subject to removal during the election period
[27:41.000 --> 27:44.000]  When he committed the act
[27:44.000 --> 27:46.000]  But since this was a different election period
[27:46.000 --> 27:49.000]  And in this election period it had not been demonstrated
[27:49.000 --> 27:52.000]  That he violated a law relating to his office
[27:52.000 --> 27:57.000]  And he was the chosen of the people
[27:57.000 --> 28:01.000]  That they had a right to their elected official
[28:01.000 --> 28:03.000]  So we'd have to nail them first
[28:03.000 --> 28:06.000]  How soon, how long before the election takes place?
[28:06.000 --> 28:09.000]  Well we're in early voting right now Randy
[28:09.000 --> 28:14.000]  And I think the main election day is this coming Tuesday
[28:14.000 --> 28:16.000]  No it's May 9th
[28:16.000 --> 28:18.000]  May 9th, okay I'm sorry
[28:18.000 --> 28:20.000]  Monday's early voting, Monday early voting starts
[28:20.000 --> 28:22.000]  And May 9th is the election
[28:22.000 --> 28:24.000]  Okay
[28:24.000 --> 28:26.000]  Well
[28:26.000 --> 28:29.000]  I'm trying to think about what I can do now
[28:29.000 --> 28:32.000]  Or if I should do anything now or if I should wait
[28:32.000 --> 28:34.000]  You make up a set of criminal charges
[28:34.000 --> 28:38.000]  Against all of them for violating the Open Meetings Act
[28:38.000 --> 28:42.000]  File it with the District Attorney
[28:42.000 --> 28:46.000]  And send a copy to the newspapers
[28:46.000 --> 28:48.000]  Well should she do that now Randy?
[28:48.000 --> 28:52.000]  Yes, quickly, immediately
[28:52.000 --> 28:54.000]  Okay do I need to have a lawyer to do that?
[28:54.000 --> 28:57.000]  Nah, you can do it yourself
[28:57.000 --> 29:01.000]  You can look on my website on Jurisimprudence.com
[29:01.000 --> 29:05.000]  And there are blank criminal complaints there
[29:05.000 --> 29:06.000]  Okay
[29:06.000 --> 29:09.000]  Download one, when it comes up there are a bunch of frogs
[29:09.000 --> 29:11.000]  You look at the top frog on the right
[29:11.000 --> 29:14.000]  And that'll be research folders and blanks
[29:14.000 --> 29:19.000]  Just click blank documents and in there you'll find a criminal complaint
[29:19.000 --> 29:21.000]  Oh okay
[29:21.000 --> 29:24.000]  Download it, fill in the blanks, have it notarized
[29:24.000 --> 29:28.000]  Now here's the deal about a criminal complaint
[29:28.000 --> 29:32.000]  Okay well wait a minute Randy, we're going to break
[29:32.000 --> 29:37.000]  So let's hold that thought, we're going to teach Erica how to file the criminal complaint
[29:37.000 --> 29:42.000]  On these rogues in City Council and the Mayor of Pflugerville
[29:42.000 --> 29:48.000]  We'll be right back, this is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens on RuleOfLawRadio.com
[29:57.000 --> 29:59.000]  Gold prices are at historic highs
[29:59.000 --> 30:02.000]  And with the recent pullback, this is a great time to buy
[30:02.000 --> 30:08.000]  With the value of the dollar, risks of inflation, geopolitical uncertainties and instability in world financial systems
[30:08.000 --> 30:10.000]  I see gold going up much higher
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[31:21.000 --> 31:26.000]  When you gonna stop abuse your power
[31:26.000 --> 31:31.000]  When you gonna stop abuse your power
[31:31.000 --> 31:37.000]  When you gonna stop abuse your power
[31:37.000 --> 31:42.000]  When you gonna stop abuse your power
[31:42.000 --> 31:48.000]  So please Mr. Mackler, teach officers not to abuse their power
[31:48.000 --> 31:53.000]  Send a request to the leader, the captain of all officers
[31:53.000 --> 31:58.000]  Tell them to uphold the law and please don't abuse their power
[31:58.000 --> 32:04.000]  The beat and the beat and the cheat and the cheat and the light every hour
[32:04.000 --> 32:09.000]  So Mr. Officer, please stop abusing your power
[32:09.000 --> 32:15.000]  You pull me over and tell me be silent, sir
[32:15.000 --> 32:21.000]  I need to speak to my lawyer, Mr. Officer
[32:21.000 --> 32:26.000]  Acting like you're the judge, finding me guilty, sir
[32:26.000 --> 32:32.000]  So when you gonna stop abuse your power
[32:32.000 --> 32:37.000]  When you gonna stop abuse your power
[32:37.000 --> 32:43.000]  When you gonna stop abuse your power
[32:43.000 --> 32:48.000]  When you gonna stop abuse your power
[32:48.000 --> 32:51.000]  So Mr. Officer abusing his power
[32:51.000 --> 32:54.000]  Please Mr. Mackler, help the officer
[32:54.000 --> 32:59.000]  So they could understand they should uphold the law instead of using their power
[32:59.000 --> 33:07.000]  Okay, we are back. The Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens on RuleOfLawRadio.com
[33:07.000 --> 33:14.000]  We are here with Erica Grignon and we're gonna be discussing how we can file criminal complaints against these rogues
[33:14.000 --> 33:19.000]  But before we do and before Randy gets into how the criminal complaint would be constructed and all this and that
[33:19.000 --> 33:27.000]  We just wanna talk to Erica for a minute and just give a chance for her to say who she is, what place she's running for
[33:27.000 --> 33:30.000]  And what her stance on the issues are, her website and stuff
[33:30.000 --> 33:37.000]  So that basically, Erica's not here to beat up on these guys as a campaign method
[33:37.000 --> 33:42.000]  Okay, she's a legitimate candidate with legitimate principles and platforms
[33:42.000 --> 33:48.000]  But this just adds a whole new twist to things and I think maybe the reason that all of this is happening
[33:48.000 --> 33:52.000]  Is because she's a legitimate candidate who's standing up for the people
[33:52.000 --> 33:56.000]  So Erica, if you could just briefly give us a little bit of your background
[33:56.000 --> 34:03.000]  What your platform is and how people can contribute to your campaign and your website and that sort of thing
[34:03.000 --> 34:10.000]  Okay, well my professional background is in accounting and that's, I do auditing and things like that
[34:10.000 --> 34:16.000]  So I'm wanting to go over the city budget and we're trying to cut costs
[34:16.000 --> 34:23.000]  Louisville has the highest tax rate in the area, we're higher than Austin, higher than Georgetown, higher than Round Rock
[34:23.000 --> 34:31.000]  So that's my main platform plank is lower taxes and I have made a pledge not to ever vote for any out of pocket tax increases
[34:31.000 --> 34:38.000]  And then we're also concerned with all the, since the TTC has been built, we have a lot of development in Pflugerville
[34:38.000 --> 34:45.000]  And a lot of it's good, but we have all these planned agreements with developers
[34:45.000 --> 34:52.000]  And they're building these really nice subdivisions, not really telling the homeowners what's coming in there
[34:52.000 --> 34:59.000]  And then they go and change their zoning afterwards after they get them filled up
[34:59.000 --> 35:05.000]  And so building like apartments and stuff right next to people's homes
[35:05.000 --> 35:11.000]  And there's a lot of people upset in town about that and that's one of the things we're concerned about
[35:11.000 --> 35:19.000]  And we're promoting small businesses and those are the main three planks that I'm running on
[35:19.000 --> 35:28.000]  My campaign website is erica4flugerville.com and it is the number four and there's ways to donate on there
[35:28.000 --> 35:35.000]  And we've already raised a substantial amount of money and I really think that my opponent is getting a little bit nervous
[35:35.000 --> 35:37.000]  And that's why these things are happening
[35:37.000 --> 35:47.000]  Indeed. Now Erica, in Pflugerville are the city council positions, are they at large or are they single member districts?
[35:47.000 --> 36:01.000]  They're at large. Okay. Okay. So what is the history of your opponent? What has he done?
[36:01.000 --> 36:08.000]  Well my opponent has lived in Pflugerville his whole life and he served on a couple of committees and boards
[36:08.000 --> 36:13.000]  And this would be his second term if he gets reelected
[36:13.000 --> 36:23.000]  And what's funny is why I chose to run against him was my very first city council work session I attended
[36:23.000 --> 36:26.000]  They were talking about the budget and this was about six or seven months ago
[36:26.000 --> 36:32.000]  And he said that he was tired of residents coming up to him complaining about how high their taxes were
[36:32.000 --> 36:36.000]  So he just kind of put me on the radar that way
[36:36.000 --> 36:43.000]  I just noticed that about him and kind of wrote it down and then noticed he was coming up for reelection along with somebody else
[36:43.000 --> 36:48.000]  And after studying their voting records I chose to run against him
[36:48.000 --> 36:58.000]  Excellent. Excellent. Well, obviously they don't like what you stand for because they're conspiring against you
[36:58.000 --> 37:03.000]  I would say in a very obvious manner and quite illegal
[37:03.000 --> 37:13.000]  And what we wanted to talk about, okay, not only can they not meet in quorum, you know, privately
[37:13.000 --> 37:18.000]  Or outside of an official public hearing, a public meeting
[37:18.000 --> 37:26.000]  But if they are discussing city business to boot, that's an even heftier crime
[37:26.000 --> 37:33.000]  So, Randy, I want to discuss those two issues and how we could file criminal complaints against them for that
[37:33.000 --> 37:41.000]  And would we need the testimony or the affidavit of the person who actually witnessed them discussing city business
[37:41.000 --> 37:45.000]  In order to file criminal complaints against them for actually doing that
[37:45.000 --> 37:51.000]  No, you wouldn't. You can file a criminal complaint based on hearsay evidence
[37:51.000 --> 37:58.000]  Yes, but as far as like in order to prosecute, they would need some sort of affidavit from the person who actually witnessed it
[37:58.000 --> 38:07.000]  Well, the problem is this apparently was a private meeting where people attended by invitation
[38:07.000 --> 38:10.000]  Yes, it was by invitation only
[38:10.000 --> 38:11.000]  These guys got a problem
[38:11.000 --> 38:13.000]  Boy, they do have a real problem
[38:13.000 --> 38:19.000]  When you have more than two or three people, nobody can get one story straight
[38:19.000 --> 38:30.000]  So it's very unlikely that if anyone subpoenaed to this meeting, it's very unlikely they would commit aggravated perjury on the stand
[38:30.000 --> 38:39.000]  So if these members were actually discussing city business, they have a serious problem
[38:39.000 --> 38:45.000]  Well, the thing is they could be quietly discussing city business at the table where nobody would have heard them discussing city business
[38:45.000 --> 38:47.000]  Except only a few people who may have happened to pass by
[38:47.000 --> 38:52.000]  I mean, it wasn't like they were, I doubt they were discussing city business on the microphone
[38:52.000 --> 38:55.000]  It's not likely to matter
[38:55.000 --> 39:02.000]  Someone will have heard them and it's unlikely that these individuals will deny it
[39:02.000 --> 39:06.000]  You got five people here, four people
[39:06.000 --> 39:10.000]  You can't get four people to tell the same story
[39:10.000 --> 39:13.000]  So the worst thing they could do is lie
[39:13.000 --> 39:16.000]  Okay, so Randy, let's formulate a strategy here
[39:16.000 --> 39:19.000]  What's the first thing that needs to be done here?
[39:19.000 --> 39:24.000]  Okay, and before we do that, I want you to tell me what is the other crime that was committed
[39:24.000 --> 39:29.000]  Okay, first they committed the crime by just meeting in quorum, by just being together
[39:29.000 --> 39:31.000]  Okay, that's first and foremost
[39:31.000 --> 39:36.000]  Second, they committed a crime by actually discussing the city business, which is the big no-no
[39:36.000 --> 39:39.000]  So what is that crime? What's that second crime?
[39:39.000 --> 39:49.000]  Essentially they're both the same crime, you couldn't, uh, it's, the one is actually a part of the other
[39:49.000 --> 39:53.000]  So we only got one crime here, but that's, the one is plenty
[39:53.000 --> 39:55.000]  Okay, so what's the strategy?
[39:55.000 --> 40:00.000]  A criminal complaint, what I was thinking on the break was about Coruerto
[40:00.000 --> 40:09.000]  And you ask if they could be removed Coruerto after they got elected a second time
[40:09.000 --> 40:23.000]  And as I recall, the Coruerto provision states that if a public official is indicted, he is to be removed
[40:23.000 --> 40:30.000]  Doesn't say convicted, so if he's in office and he's indicted, he's removed
[40:30.000 --> 40:44.000]  And at which time the prosecution is completed, then I guess if he's found not guilty, he can return to office
[40:44.000 --> 40:51.000]  I'm looking at grounds under Coruerto 66001
[40:51.000 --> 41:00.000]  So what is the first step? The first step is for Erica to file a criminal complaint against all of these individuals, including the mayor?
[41:00.000 --> 41:07.000]  Yes, everyone who is there filed a criminal complaint with the district attorney
[41:07.000 --> 41:12.000]  With the district attorney up in, would this be Travis County?
[41:12.000 --> 41:20.000]  Yes, and if you file it on my form, they will recognize that it's my form
[41:20.000 --> 41:27.000]  Okay, so she's also going to have to quote the statute number, okay, of the Open Meetings Act
[41:27.000 --> 41:36.000]  Yeah, it's 551, all she has to do is in violation of 551 Open Meetings Act, government code 551
[41:36.000 --> 41:39.000]  Government code 551 Open Meetings Act
[41:39.000 --> 41:49.000]  You don't have to go, you can quote 551 041, I wouldn't, I would just say 551 government code
[41:49.000 --> 41:50.000]  Okay
[41:50.000 --> 41:58.000]  And actually I would accuse them in the statement of violating 551 government code
[41:58.000 --> 42:01.000]  And that's the law relating to their office
[42:01.000 --> 42:11.000]  So you put that in the statement and then at the bottom it'll say, and therefore you'll state the crime they committed
[42:11.000 --> 42:17.000]  The crime is official oppression, 39.03 Penal Code
[42:17.000 --> 42:22.000]  And that goes to violating a law relating to their office
[42:22.000 --> 42:32.000]  551 government code is the law they violated and denied those not invited to this fundraiser
[42:32.000 --> 42:43.000]  Their right to a public court or a public hearing under violation of the requirements of the Open Meetings Act
[42:43.000 --> 42:53.000]  So, and that's a Class A misdemeanor, you'll find both of those in the Penal Code
[42:53.000 --> 43:00.000]  I'm sure you can find 551 if you just ex-quick it
[43:00.000 --> 43:02.000]  Ex-quick
[43:02.000 --> 43:06.000]  Right, yeah, I use that search engine, I know what it is
[43:06.000 --> 43:13.000]  You'll find 551 and you may find more than I've found here on Lexis
[43:13.000 --> 43:18.000]  I'm not pleased with what I've found here, I was hoping for something a little more definitive
[43:18.000 --> 43:34.000]  But as I understand under Quaranto, if they are indicted, the District Attorney is required to initiate Quaranto proceedings to remove them from office
[43:34.000 --> 43:41.000]  Okay, well listen, listen, we're going to break, Erica, can you hang with us a little longer?
[43:41.000 --> 43:43.000]  Sure, sure, if you need me to
[43:43.000 --> 43:48.000]  Okay, yeah, excellent, because we want to give you a good strategy here, something you can sink your teeth into and take away with you
[43:48.000 --> 43:50.000]  Okay, I appreciate it
[43:50.000 --> 43:54.000]  Okay, sure, we'll be right back, this is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
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[45:34.000 --> 46:03.000]  What's in the spot, Scott?
[46:03.000 --> 46:14.000]  Okay, watching the sparks fly in Pflugerville, Texas, violating the Open Meetings Act, all members of city council and the mayor
[46:14.000 --> 46:18.000]  Big trouble, private event by invitation only
[46:18.000 --> 46:25.000]  Okay, Randy, so please continue and tell us how we can use Quo warranto
[46:25.000 --> 46:31.000]  Well, Quo warranto is actually something that the prosecuting attorney must do
[46:31.000 --> 46:40.000]  But you can petition the court to request a Quo warranto proceeding
[46:40.000 --> 46:50.000]  And on the criminal complaint, you either attach it to the criminal complaint or send it to the prosecuting attorney separately
[46:50.000 --> 47:03.000]  But there's also another thing you could do, and that's request an examining court under Chapter 52, Code of Criminal Procedure
[47:03.000 --> 47:12.000]  And the examining court is traditionally used to examine into improprieties by public officials
[47:12.000 --> 47:24.000]  So the three of those, the criminal complaints, petition for examining court, and petition in Quo warranto
[47:24.000 --> 47:30.000]  I'm thinking there's almost enough in here to move to delay the election
[47:30.000 --> 47:39.000]  For a restraining order to delay the election, although I'm not familiar enough with the election code to know if we can do that
[47:39.000 --> 47:42.000]  Now why would we want to do that?
[47:42.000 --> 47:54.000]  Because the board that's running for election are accused of being criminals, of committing crimes in office
[47:54.000 --> 48:02.000]  And an indictment would force their removal and it would disrupt the city
[48:02.000 --> 48:10.000]  So you're saying that if they got re-elected and then they got removed, it would be too disruptive to the city because then they'd have to have another election
[48:10.000 --> 48:11.000]  Yes
[48:11.000 --> 48:17.000]  So it's better to just say, look, we need to postpone the election until we get all this sorted out
[48:17.000 --> 48:20.000]  Yeah, until we resolve the criminal accusations
[48:20.000 --> 48:31.000]  And if they do get indicted and get removed from office, then would they not be eligible to run for re-election at that point?
[48:31.000 --> 48:37.000]  Because what if they just decide to run again anyway, then what good is it?
[48:37.000 --> 48:41.000]  Well, because then they have been pretty well discredited
[48:41.000 --> 48:45.000]  Well, yeah, they're not likely to get re-elected again if they decided to run
[48:45.000 --> 48:50.000]  Yeah, so I'm not familiar enough with the election code
[48:50.000 --> 49:00.000]  I know under some circumstances a convicted felon can run for office, so they would probably be eligible to run again
[49:00.000 --> 49:02.000]  But who would vote for them?
[49:02.000 --> 49:04.000]  Yeah, that's kind of the point
[49:04.000 --> 49:10.000]  Unless they just manage to sluff all this off as, well, what's the big deal? You know, we were just hanging out
[49:10.000 --> 49:15.000]  I mean, why you got to make a big deal about us not being able to talk to each other?
[49:15.000 --> 49:20.000]  Well, you know, they would have to make that argument and it would be hard for them to make
[49:20.000 --> 49:30.000]  People would have to realize the severity and the magnitude of this grave error and this crime
[49:30.000 --> 49:32.000]  I mean, there's a reason why we have the Open Meetings Act
[49:32.000 --> 49:41.000]  There's a reason why these public officials are not allowed, public servants are not allowed to talk to each other outside of open meetings
[49:41.000 --> 49:50.000]  It's because we can't have people in government conspiring about city business without the public witnessing it
[49:50.000 --> 49:55.000]  And having public input because we have to have a transparent government
[49:55.000 --> 49:59.000]  As a matter of fact, I've got some case law on that
[49:59.000 --> 50:13.000]  It's actually in the writ of habeas corpus that private meetings fly in the face of our open form of government
[50:13.000 --> 50:16.000]  So it is a big deal
[50:16.000 --> 50:18.000]  It's a very big deal
[50:18.000 --> 50:33.000]  And if these guys are going to violate this big of a restriction, then they apparently have no real consideration for the law that governs them
[50:33.000 --> 50:37.000]  Yeah, no kidding, or the people that they're supposed to be governing over
[50:37.000 --> 50:49.000]  That's why we're so upset because they're so arrogant that they thought they could just get away with it too, that they didn't know I knew somebody was there because it was invite only
[50:49.000 --> 50:51.000]  But they don't know how well connected I am
[50:51.000 --> 51:01.000]  Yeah, but if they're in an invite only meeting, they have to know that's really touchy business
[51:01.000 --> 51:06.000]  This is clearly a private meeting, this is not a public meeting
[51:06.000 --> 51:09.000]  Yeah, it's not even like they were at a restaurant or a bar
[51:09.000 --> 51:14.000]  I mean this is even worse, it's by private invitation only
[51:14.000 --> 51:18.000]  Give me a break, how arrogant can these people be
[51:18.000 --> 51:22.000]  This may well be enough to get them indicted
[51:22.000 --> 51:31.000]  So Randy, okay, let's break it down for Erica, what exactly does she need to do at this point so we can give her some tools
[51:31.000 --> 51:33.000]  Criminal complaint first
[51:33.000 --> 51:35.000]  Okay
[51:35.000 --> 51:43.000]  Second, petition for court of inquiry under chapter 52 code of criminal procedure
[51:43.000 --> 51:45.000]  Okay
[51:45.000 --> 52:06.000]  And I could come up with some really interesting things like a petition for a, no I'm thinking attorney pro tem, wrong place, court of inquiry would be probably the best because that's going to put them all on the dime
[52:06.000 --> 52:10.000]  Where does the quo warrant so come in, when does she get to petition for removal of office
[52:10.000 --> 52:12.000]  Indictment
[52:12.000 --> 52:14.000]  What, after the indictments
[52:14.000 --> 52:28.000]  You can petition with the, when you file a petition for a court of inquiry you can ask for quo warrant removal in the event of indictment
[52:28.000 --> 52:34.000]  Now when does the, requesting the delay of election, of the election, when does that come into play
[52:34.000 --> 52:41.000]  I'm not sure, I'm not familiar enough with the election code to know if that's a possibility
[52:41.000 --> 52:45.000]  Well the thing is you can always ask the court for it
[52:45.000 --> 52:55.000]  Well I would want to do, I would want to make sure that I had law, there's one thing when you ask the court to do something you have to give the court the law that says he can do it
[52:55.000 --> 53:02.000]  Alright well I'm pretty familiar with the election code, nothing's coming specifically to my mind right now but I will look it up
[53:02.000 --> 53:06.000]  Cause I know right in the code where that would be
[53:06.000 --> 53:11.000]  Okay that would be important cause you can't just ask a judge to do something
[53:11.000 --> 53:12.000]  Right
[53:12.000 --> 53:20.000]  You have to put the law in front of him that says this is what you must do and I want you to do this
[53:20.000 --> 53:25.000]  Okay so when you're petitioning for the court of inquiry you're saying
[53:25.000 --> 53:26.000]  Yes
[53:26.000 --> 53:29.000]  That's when you ask for quo warrant removal in the event of indictment
[53:29.000 --> 53:34.000]  Yes
[53:34.000 --> 53:42.000]  Let me dig out court of inquiry here, that was really interesting when I found it, it's something that's not used often
[53:42.000 --> 53:48.000]  And most likely the court that gets it won't know what to do with it
[53:48.000 --> 53:55.000]  Although since this is Travis County they may have more of an idea since it's the seat of government
[53:55.000 --> 54:02.000]  It's a place where people would be filing against statewide officials
[54:02.000 --> 54:07.000]  Chapter 52 court of inquiry
[54:07.000 --> 54:15.000]  When a judge of any district court of this state acting in his capacity as a magistrate has probable cause to believe that an offense has been committed against the laws of the state
[54:15.000 --> 54:24.000]  He may request that the presiding judge of the administrative judicial district appoint a district judge to commence a court of inquiry
[54:24.000 --> 54:34.000]  The judge who shall be appointed in accordance with subsection B may summon and examine any witnesses in relation to the offense in accordance with the rules here and after provided
[54:34.000 --> 54:40.000]  Which procedure is defined as a court of inquiry
[54:40.000 --> 54:50.000]  So what you would do is petition and I would, if I were doing this I would petition Bob Perkins
[54:50.000 --> 54:52.000]  He's the head criminal
[54:52.000 --> 54:53.000]  What did he say again?
[54:53.000 --> 54:54.000]  Bob Perkins
[54:54.000 --> 54:55.000]  Bob Perkins
[54:55.000 --> 54:56.000]  Bob Perkins
[54:56.000 --> 55:02.000]  He's the head criminal district judge in Travis County
[55:02.000 --> 55:04.000]  So he's the right one to
[55:04.000 --> 55:06.000]  Actually let me read that again
[55:06.000 --> 55:08.000]  Does that say head administrative judge?
[55:08.000 --> 55:13.000]  That says presiding judge of the administrative judicial district
[55:13.000 --> 55:15.000]  That would be
[55:15.000 --> 55:17.000]  Oh the guy's in Seguin
[55:17.000 --> 55:28.000]  Shram, Judge Shram in Seguin, that's who you would file the petition for court of inquiry with
[55:28.000 --> 55:31.000]  That would be the third step right?
[55:31.000 --> 55:33.000]  That would be second step
[55:33.000 --> 55:38.000]  First step is to file a criminal complaint against the actors with the district attorney
[55:38.000 --> 55:44.000]  The second step, file a petition for a court of inquiry
[55:44.000 --> 55:48.000]  You can't file a court of inquiry, the court has to do that
[55:48.000 --> 55:54.000]  But you file a petition asking the court to initiate a court of inquiry
[55:54.000 --> 55:59.000]  And since this falls under the code of criminal procedure
[55:59.000 --> 56:06.000]  There's no filing fee indicated in case they want to do some filing fee song and dance
[56:06.000 --> 56:11.000]  Since it's criminal in its nature
[56:11.000 --> 56:19.000]  And you can file that under the criminal complaints if there's a
[56:19.000 --> 56:23.000]  Once they create a cause number
[56:23.000 --> 56:30.000]  But when you file this with a prosecuting attorney there's a real good chance the prosecutor's not going to want to move ahead on it
[56:30.000 --> 56:37.000]  They generally tend not to want to prosecute public officials
[56:37.000 --> 56:43.000]  But then again, this is a minor municipality
[56:43.000 --> 56:50.000]  And the new prosecutor may look at this as an opportunity to get some good free press
[56:50.000 --> 56:55.000]  Taking down those corrupt yokels
[56:55.000 --> 57:02.000]  So they might, since it's not Austin, it's out there in a smaller municipality
[57:02.000 --> 57:05.000]  They may look at it as an opportunity
[57:05.000 --> 57:11.000]  And especially if you file a complaint with the district attorney
[57:11.000 --> 57:19.000]  And you copy it to all the newspapers and all the TV programs
[57:19.000 --> 57:22.000]  There's a couple you might even get to look into it
[57:22.000 --> 57:27.000]  If you get a little press on it, you get the prosecutor's attention
[57:27.000 --> 57:35.000]  And when you first spoke of it, I didn't realize it was a private meeting
[57:35.000 --> 57:41.000]  This could be something the prosecutor might want to pick up
[57:41.000 --> 57:45.000]  I personally like the look of it
[57:45.000 --> 57:51.000]  Wouldn't that be a hoot? Just take them all out. One fell swoop
[57:51.000 --> 57:57.000]  I would like it. I'm on the steering committee for Texas for Accountable Government
[57:57.000 --> 58:00.000]  Wonderful. And the timing's pretty good
[58:00.000 --> 58:04.000]  It's just enough before the election so that they don't forget about it
[58:04.000 --> 58:10.000]  It'll still be fresh when the election gets here
[58:10.000 --> 58:13.000]  Alright, excellent
[58:13.000 --> 58:21.000]  Alright, callers, it looks like the phones have maintained their stability over the last half hour or so
[58:21.000 --> 58:23.000]  So I'm going to go ahead and open up the phone lines
[58:23.000 --> 58:29.000]  Callers, if you'd like to call in, 512-646-1984
[58:29.000 --> 58:34.000]  Would you like to take any calls on the other side, Erica?
[58:34.000 --> 58:38.000]  I can if you want me to. If not, that's fine
[58:38.000 --> 58:43.000]  Okay, alright, well you're welcome to stay on with us if you'd like. And callers, feel free to call in
[58:43.000 --> 58:45.000]  We'll be right back after this short break
[58:45.000 --> 59:12.000]  This is the Rule of Law, Randi Kelton and Debra Stevens
[59:15.000 --> 59:20.000]  Thank you for joining us. We'll be right back.
[59:45.000 --> 01:00:04.000]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at RuleOfLawRadio.com
[01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:16.000]  Live free speech talk radio at its best
[01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:44.000]  Live free speech talk radio at its best
[01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:15.000]  Live free speech talk radio at its best
[01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.000]  Randi Kelton and Debra Stevens
[01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.000]  Alright, we have Greg Chapman on the line
[01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.000]  He's one of our hosts
[01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:47.000]  His show Agenda 21 Talk is on Tuesdays from 8 to 10 central
[01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:52.000]  And also on Fridays from 6 to 8 central
[01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:56.000]  And he has some comments about the situation, some words to say to Erica
[01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:59.000]  Great, thank you for calling in tonight, Greg
[01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:07.000]  Yeah, my pleasure. Hey, I just caught it probably about 10-15 minutes ago
[01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:14.000]  Are you guys talking about a county government or a municipality?
[01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:17.000]  No, this is a municipality, this is a city council
[01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:29.000]  Yeah, city of Pflugerville, four members, incumbents, host a fundraiser
[01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:31.000]  No, no, no, they didn't host, they just attended
[01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:36.000]  Okay, attended an invitation only fundraiser
[01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:42.000]  For one of the incumbents, fundraiser for re-election of one of the incumbents
[01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:47.000]  And three of the other incumbents attended and the mayor
[01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:49.000]  So that would make five total
[01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:53.000]  And according to the Open Meetings Act, they cannot meet in quorum
[01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:57.000]  Much less meet and discuss city business outside of a public hearing
[01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:02.000]  And they were heard to discuss city business in the private meeting
[01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:03.000]  Yes
[01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:06.000]  Okay, that kind of hits home
[01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:15.000]  Now Randy, in your state, does the secretary, let me put it this way
[01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:22.000]  In our state, the secretary of state handles anything, any investigations regarding elections
[01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:26.000]  And the attorney general investigates anything regarding public officials
[01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:28.000]  Is that the way it is in Texas?
[01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:29.000]  No, no
[01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:31.000]  The attorney general has no
[01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:41.000]  Prosecutorial power at all, the attorney general is the defense attorney for public servants in this state
[01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:47.000]  The only prosecutorial power the attorney general has at all in this state has to do with child support
[01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:50.000]  The district attorney is the one who does all the prosecuting
[01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:58.000]  Right, and there's only one time the attorney general is the prosecutor of original jurisdiction
[01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:05.000]  And that is if you file a complaint under open records against the district attorney, district or county attorney
[01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.000]  Then the attorney general prosecutes that
[01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:14.000]  Otherwise he assists the prosecuting attorney of whatever district if he's requested
[01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:18.000]  There's actually a couple of oddball things he's allowed to do
[01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:23.000]  Well here in Alabama, the attorney general handles all that
[01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.000]  And so now I go into comment mode
[01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:33.000]  I know, you know, I've talked quite often on the show about the things that the little group of us are doing here in our county
[01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:38.000]  And who is the, your guest is Erica?
[01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:40.000]  Erica Grignon
[01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:47.000]  Okay, and so what is it that, Erica, that you're actually doing?
[01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:52.000]  She's running for city council against one of the incumbents
[01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:54.000]  She's a candidate
[01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:58.000]  Yeah, I'm running against city council for the guy who held the fundraiser
[01:04:58.000 --> 01:04:59.000]  Yes
[01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:00.000]  He's my opponent
[01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.000]  Yeah, her opponent was the guy who held the fundraiser, the private event
[01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:07.000]  Where all these rogues met in private
[01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:11.000]  Well, I can tell you one thing from experience
[01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:17.000]  That filing documents, although you may not see anything happen on the face
[01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:21.000]  You actually make a big difference in elections
[01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:28.000]  Our group filed complaints with the attorney general on certain public officials and with the secretary of state
[01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:33.000]  As a result, the chairman elected to not run again
[01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:41.000]  And from that, we supported a chairman who actually got elected
[01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:47.000]  And as a result, she had invited somebody down to a restaurant
[01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:52.000]  And the new elected commissioners were going to meet down there
[01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:57.000]  And one of our people, knowing the codes and everything
[01:05:57.000 --> 01:06:02.000]  Had recommended that she not do that, that she would be violating the law
[01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:07.000]  Because you couldn't, I think a quorum here is three or more, I think, I don't know
[01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:14.000]  And at any rate, she went ahead and cancelled the meeting because of that
[01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:18.000]  So I know one thing for sure
[01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:26.000]  Just filing the documents sometimes can send a message and make things happen
[01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:29.000]  I mean, I know it's happened here in our county
[01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:33.000]  Yeah, that's kind of what I want to do
[01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:38.000]  I want to let everybody know that there are watchdogs out there
[01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:40.000]  And we are paying attention
[01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:44.000]  And you're not going to get away with it, is what I'm trying to do
[01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:51.000]  Yeah, it worked great for us
[01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:55.000]  As a matter of fact, my wife ran for county commissioner
[01:06:55.000 --> 01:07:01.000]  And as a result of filing all these documents and us running our own candidates
[01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:09.000]  Now, the commissioner actually calls one of our group to research the law for her
[01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:14.000]  And we've got one other commissioner who has now come over onto our side
[01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:19.000]  Because we've attended all the meetings and continually filed documents
[01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:24.000]  And the crazy thing of it is, we're just a group of about six or seven people
[01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:29.000]  And we've totally turned around the local government in Jackson County
[01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:35.000]  So, you know, firing away like what you're planning on doing, it really does work
[01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:37.000]  That was awesome
[01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:41.000]  Yeah, and I would hit up the local papers too about this
[01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:48.000]  And the local mainstream media, quote unquote, if they would happen to hear anything about it
[01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:51.000]  Because this is major
[01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:57.000]  We're talking about a press release and sending some op-eds
[01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:00.000]  We just have two local papers, they're pretty small
[01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:03.000]  And the Austin American Statesman too
[01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:08.000]  Who was the guy who filmed me when I got arrested in Williamson County?
[01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:12.000]  Oh, right, right
[01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:17.000]  You should go on the Jeff Davis show about this
[01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:20.000]  Yeah, I'll call him up about that
[01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:27.000]  Yeah, there's a local news reporter, I can't remember what his name is now
[01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:33.000]  He's on KXAN and he does a lot to expose government corruption
[01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:40.000]  And my friend Jeff Davis from the Jeff Davis show has the longest running cable access show in almost 20 years
[01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:43.000]  Actually, I think it is 20 years now
[01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:48.000]  And he can get a hold of this reporter, I can't remember what his name is now
[01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:56.000]  But he's a very prominent news reporter on KXAN here that may be interested in this story, absolutely
[01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:07.000]  I'm curious, how many people do you have in your group that's supporting you or helping you, you know, the canvas and everything?
[01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:13.000]  We have always, we have the same five or six and then we have some people
[01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:18.000]  You know, our friends in Austin will come, we'll have people from out of town come and help us
[01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:23.000]  But here locally, it's the same five or six of us that are always doing this
[01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:27.000]  One of the things that I did, and you may have already had this idea
[01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:34.000]  But the way we made this work was we always got somebody else to file a document
[01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:39.000]  People who just wanted to learn or just be a part of it
[01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:43.000]  We actually got the paperwork for them, but they signed their name to it
[01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:50.000]  So after it was all said and done, it looked like there was a huge number of people involved in this
[01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:59.000]  And so what I did, as far as my wife goes, the only time she put her name on anything was when she did a press conference
[01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:07.000]  She didn't file that much in paperwork, so it didn't look like she was the one that just kept barking up the tree
[01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:16.000]  So what it looks like on the surface, it looks like it's more devastating to them than it I guess really is
[01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:20.000]  But, you know, looks are everything
[01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:23.000]  Kudos for Mr. Chapman
[01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:25.000]  Yeah, that's a good point, that's a good point
[01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:29.000]  We should have, maybe you guys should have someone else on the TAG steering committee
[01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:33.000]  Or, you know, one of your friends be the one to file the criminal complaints
[01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:35.000]  That is a very good point
[01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.000]  Yeah, we were already thinking about that
[01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:46.000]  We had, and still do, we had some really nice elderly people who wanted to get involved in something
[01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:51.000]  They didn't have the education to research law or anything like that
[01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:54.000]  But they just simply wanted to be part of something
[01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:58.000]  And those were the people that did a lot of the filings
[01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:05.000]  And the beautiful part of it was, these public officials never would come out and try to blast them
[01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:08.000]  Because they looked so innocent, and they really were
[01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.000]  And they couldn't really confront them
[01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:21.000]  Because they weren't people that looked like or even had the character to, you know, argue with somebody in public
[01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:23.000]  So it worked against them
[01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:29.000]  And I keep thinking of this one elderly lady, her name was Ena
[01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:32.000]  And her and her husband, and he just recently died
[01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:39.000]  But he told her, and I say recently, he died about, I think about a month ago
[01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:44.000]  But he told her to keep fighting and hang in there with us
[01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:47.000]  And that's what she told me the day at the funeral home
[01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:49.000]  To keep her busy
[01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:59.000]  Because he had told her to not give up and to keep, you know, going forward to get good open government
[01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:06.000]  And so there's a lot of these out there that you can actually come in contact with
[01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:09.000]  Who will do the filing and everything, and it works beautiful
[01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:13.000]  Okay, great, I'll look into that
[01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:15.000]  Oh, that is a great idea
[01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:18.000]  Yeah, great idea, great
[01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:20.000]  Excellent
[01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:23.000]  Well, that's all I've got
[01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:27.000]  I was just listening, and what you were talking about was just right up my alley
[01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:30.000]  And I love this stuff, so I appreciate the show
[01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:35.000]  Excellent, Greg, and this is, listeners, this is Greg Chapman from Agenda 21 Talk
[01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:44.000]  His show is here on Rule of Law Radio from 8 to 10 Tuesday evenings, Central Time, and 6 to 8 Friday evenings
[01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:47.000]  Yeah, this is Greg who hangs out in the alley
[01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:50.000]  I don't know about that
[01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:53.000]  He's actually from Jackson County, Alabama
[01:12:53.000 --> 01:13:00.000]  He's the guy who stays in the background doing the research
[01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:03.000]  And he lets the little old ladies get on the front line
[01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:06.000]  Yeah, that's my kind of guy
[01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:08.000]  Incredible
[01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:10.000]  Alright, Greg
[01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:12.000]  Alright, thanks for calling in
[01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:13.000]  Okay, see you
[01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:15.000]  Alright, bye
[01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:18.000]  Okay, we have another caller here, we've got Eddie from Texas
[01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:22.000]  Hey, Eddie, thanks for calling in, do you have some comments for Erica?
[01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:28.000]  No, actually I was having to go out and walk my dog, so I called in to listen while I was out
[01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:31.000]  Okay, well we have a listener line
[01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:39.000]  And listeners out there, the listener line is 512-485-9010
[01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:41.000]  Okay, see I didn't know that
[01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:46.000]  Yes, there's a listener line, 512-485-9010
[01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:53.000]  So, listeners, please call in to the listener line, not the caller line, because it kind of confuses the host, we think we have callers
[01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:55.000]  Well, since you're up, Eddie
[01:13:55.000 --> 01:14:01.000]  Since you're up, did you hear what the context is here?
[01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:03.000]  I'll go through it quick, I want to get you a phone
[01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.000]  I think he hung up, Randy
[01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:08.000]  Oh wait, there he is, are you still there, Eddie?
[01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:10.000]  Yeah, I'm here
[01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:30.000]  Okay, four city council members, four of five, are invited to a fundraising event for one of the members, invitation only, in the meeting, they discuss city business
[01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:31.000]  Right
[01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:34.000]  Major faux pas
[01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:43.000]  Yes, I agree, considering what amount I've heard of the conversation so far, I went looking that up in the statutes as best I could
[01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:51.000]  I haven't found anything directly on it, though I found some satellite things dealing with it, and I would agree, they're not allowed to do that
[01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:54.000]  Yeah, it's a violation of the Open Meetings Act
[01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:55.000]  Right
[01:14:55.000 --> 01:15:04.000]  And the fact that it was a private invitation only meeting, these people had to be extremely careful
[01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:11.000]  When you're invited to a private meeting that way, and it has to do with government anyway
[01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:15.000]  Yeah, I know, it's not like they went out to Magnolia Cafe or something
[01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:17.000]  I mean
[01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:21.000]  It's not like several of them happened to show up in the same place
[01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:26.000]  Yeah, it's not like any kind of a random thing, it was private invitation only
[01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:28.000]  Give me a break
[01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:36.000]  It's not very easily disguisable as one of those let's talk about it in secret so we can make the arrangement if we want to come out at the end of the deal
[01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:38.000]  Exactly
[01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:43.000]  Oh, the one thing I didn't get to was criminal complaint
[01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:45.000]  Okay, right
[01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:58.000]  Okay, on the website you'll find a criminal complaint, and what that complaint is, that form comes right out of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
[01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:08.000]  The heading is required, the first paragraph statement is in the verbiage that the Code of Criminal Procedure requires
[01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:15.000]  All of that is the way it requires, it's the intersection, all you do is put in essentially a statement of facts
[01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.000]  Are we going to miss this break?
[01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:19.000]  No, we're going to break
[01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:21.000]  Okay, I'll finish this up after the break
[01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:23.000]  Okay, we're about to go to break
[01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:38.000]  Okay, we'd like to call in and speak with Erica Green, candidate for city council, Pflugerville, Texas, if you have any comments or questions, 512-646-1984 and we will be right back
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[01:18:02.000 --> 01:18:23.000]  Hey, ain't gonna blind me, don't bore me
[01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:33.000]  Ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again I was blindsided but now I can see your plan
[01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:46.000]  You put the fear in my pockets, took the money from my hand Ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again
[01:18:46.000 --> 01:19:03.000]  Ain't gonna fool me
[01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:31.000]  Ain't gonna drop me with that same old sucker punch I get it now but then I must have been down to the punch Back then you had room to move but now you're feeling the crunch Ain't gonna get me with that same old sucker punch
[01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:37.000]  Okay, we are back, the rule of law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:45.000]  Alright, Erica is gonna stay with us for one more segment and then callers will start to take your calls about any topic that you have on your minds
[01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:54.000]  But for the next segment, we're gonna finish discussing with Erica our strategies and how the situation needs to be handled
[01:19:54.000 --> 01:20:01.000]  Randy has documents on his website about the criminal complaints and such so Randy, you were gonna discuss the criminal complaint
[01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:09.000]  Yes, the criminal complaint. On a criminal complaint, all it is is notice
[01:20:09.000 --> 01:20:23.000]  So whoever files the complaint, as long as you make no statement that's false, a statement of fact, you are absolutely immune from any kind of retaliation or retribution
[01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:25.000]  Okay
[01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:36.000]  So you state the facts clearly, succinctly, without exaggeration or equivocation and then you can come to any conclusion that you like
[01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:44.000]  And to illustrate how you're protected, you know, if I'm walking down the street and I see something that appears to me to be a crime
[01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:54.000]  And I flagged down a policeman and I tell the policeman, I saw something over there, it looked like this guy was committing this crime and the policeman goes over there and jerks him up
[01:20:54.000 --> 01:21:00.000]  And questions him and cuffs him and subsequently finds out he wasn't committing a crime
[01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:07.000]  Would you be in any kind of trouble for reporting your concern to the police?
[01:21:07.000 --> 01:21:11.000]  Of course not, it's your duty
[01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:25.000]  So you do nothing to the person, you just make a report to a competent professional and the competent professional listens to the information you give him
[01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:31.000]  He makes a decision based on that information and then goes and does whatever he does
[01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:36.000]  What he does may give that guy some grief, but you didn't do it, the officer did
[01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:44.000]  Oh yes, and I want to just make one comment here just quickly about that you're not harming the person when you file a criminal complaint
[01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:50.000]  Because I've had this question asked to me many times regarding filing criminal complaints against public officials
[01:21:50.000 --> 01:22:01.000]  Well can they come back and sue you for libel or slander? And the answer is no, they cannot because you have not committed those crimes
[01:22:01.000 --> 01:22:08.000]  And the reason is because that person always has a way to vindicate themselves and clear their names
[01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:13.000]  Because if they're not indicted by a grand jury, well then they're in the clear
[01:22:13.000 --> 01:22:22.000]  And even if they are indicted by a grand jury, if they're not convicted by the petit jury, then they have cleared their names
[01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:32.000]  So because it's on the criminal side of law and that there are mechanisms in place for the person to clear their name publicly
[01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:36.000]  Then libel and slander never come into play here at all
[01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:42.000]  And it has to be that way because if you could get sued for libel or slander for filing a criminal complaint
[01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:46.000]  Then nobody would press charges against anybody because they would be afraid of getting sued
[01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:50.000]  So just don't even take that into consideration at all
[01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:58.000]  Exactly, you have exactly the same immunity that a judge does in this regard
[01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:00.000]  You're absolutely immune
[01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:08.000]  If you get on the stand and lie like a dog, you cannot be sued
[01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:10.000]  No, you can get prosecuted
[01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:13.000]  You can get prosecuted but you cannot be sued
[01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:21.000]  Yes, so as long as you don't lie on the statement or lie on the stand, you are totally safe
[01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:26.000]  The entire criminal justice system is geared towards protecting the victim
[01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:36.000]  Or the one who performs his duty and gives notice to the police or courts of a crime
[01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:38.000]  They are absolutely protected
[01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:42.000]  So Randy, continue with the criminal complaint because we've got six minutes left of the segment
[01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:50.000]  Okay, so you tell the facts and then you come to your conclusion from the facts
[01:23:50.000 --> 01:23:53.000]  And your conclusion is that they committed a specific crime
[01:23:53.000 --> 01:23:57.000]  That last paragraph in the blank form is right out of the book
[01:23:57.000 --> 01:24:01.000]  The verbiage, the way it's structured is all right out of the book
[01:24:01.000 --> 01:24:05.000]  So there will be no question about the structure of the complaint
[01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:11.000]  And we covered the fact that you can file this complaint essentially with impunity
[01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:15.000]  You have no fear of retribution or retaliation of any kind
[01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:19.000]  But it always has to be verified
[01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:22.000]  In law, verification means notary
[01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:31.000]  Any time a document is filed with the court that has a statement of fact included, it must be verified
[01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:38.000]  If you accidentally verify a document that doesn't need to be verified, it doesn't hurt a thing
[01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:44.000]  But if you forget to verify one that needs to be verified, then it renders it worthless
[01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:48.000]  And here's how it goes with the prosecuting attorney
[01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:54.000]  Filing a complaint against a public official is a special case
[01:24:54.000 --> 01:25:03.000]  Special statute, very first statute that gives the prosecuting attorney a specific duty
[01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:10.000]  2.03 Code of Criminal Procedure, 2.01 tells him that he won't secret evidence
[01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:15.000]  This is the primary duty of the prosecuting attorney not to secure conviction but to ensure that justice is served
[01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:18.000]  Okay, that sounds cool, but don't tell him to do anything
[01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:22.000]  202 tells him what cases he'll handle, 2.03
[01:25:22.000 --> 01:25:27.000]  In the case of a criminal complaint against a public official
[01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:34.000]  If a prosecuting attorney is made known in any manner that a public official has violated a law relating to his office
[01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:39.000]  He shall reduce the complaint to an information submitted to the grand jury
[01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:41.000]  No discretion
[01:25:41.000 --> 01:25:49.000]  If you file a criminal complaint with the district attorney against a public official, he must give it to the grand jury
[01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:53.000]  Now we have a brand new district attorney
[01:25:53.000 --> 01:26:02.000]  And she was there last year when I forced the old grand jury to give my criminal complaints against all the highest judges in Texas to the
[01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:08.000]  I'm sorry, the old district attorney, yeah, to give my complaints against the highest judges in Texas to the grand jury
[01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:12.000]  So she knows the duty
[01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:21.000]  If she attempts to fudge on this in the least, I get to come down after her
[01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:30.000]  If she does, if she doesn't give it to the grand jury, I will be glad to personally go down and file criminal charges against our new district attorney
[01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:33.000]  We'll see if we can't get her attention
[01:26:33.000 --> 01:26:36.000]  It should get interesting
[01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:39.000]  This was how it was intended
[01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:49.000]  Now Randy, I just want to ask one question here just to make sure because there are considerable portions of Pflugerville that are in Williamson County
[01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:53.000]  This all has to do with a specific event at a specific place
[01:26:53.000 --> 01:27:01.000]  If this fundraiser occurred in Williamson County, would we not have to go to the Williamson County district attorney?
[01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:08.000]  Let the Travis County district attorney make that determination
[01:27:08.000 --> 01:27:17.000]  Okay, well I'm just asking in general, you have to file the criminal complaint in the district where the crime was committed
[01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:26.000]  It would be even more fun if the Williamson County district attorney gets the complaint from the Travis County district attorney
[01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:31.000]  Okay, do you know if the location of this fundraiser was actually in Williamson County or Travis County, Erica?
[01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:40.000]  I'll double check, but most of Pflugerville is in Travis County, it's northeast Travis County, there's just a little bit that's in Williamson County
[01:27:40.000 --> 01:27:42.000]  Okay, good, good, good
[01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:44.000]  Much better if it's in Travis
[01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:53.000]  Travis being the seat of government tends to be more conscious of state focus
[01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:54.000]  Okay
[01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:59.000]  So of all the counties in Texas, this is probably the best one to file this kind of complaint in
[01:27:59.000 --> 01:28:01.000]  Indeed
[01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:06.000]  Oh, and it'll be such a hoot
[01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:10.000]  Excellent, and we can talk to you more about this offline too, Erica
[01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:11.000]  Okay
[01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:16.000]  But yes, certainly we want to do this as soon as possible and have the press release and everything
[01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:24.000]  I mean, because this is a very serious business and Jim Tucker maybe, I believe that that was the gentleman's name who's the reporter for KXAN
[01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:26.000]  Oh, okay
[01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:30.000]  Yes, he does a lot of exposés on government corruption
[01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:36.000]  I'll get in touch with Jim Tucker from KXAN and see if we can get this on mainstream news
[01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:40.000]  Let's bring Randy in quickly in case he has a question for Erica before
[01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:44.000]  Okay, yes, Randy, do you have a question for Erica?
[01:28:44.000 --> 01:28:45.000]  Hello?
[01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:48.000]  Yeah, Randy, do you have a question for Erica?
[01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:51.000]  No, actually I did and I was calling in about something else
[01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:55.000]  Okay, all right, then we'll bring you up on the next segment
[01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:58.000]  Okay, because we just want to finish up with Erica
[01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:02.000]  All right, Erica, thank you very much, we've got about 40 seconds left of this segment
[01:29:02.000 --> 01:29:09.000]  Can you just give out your website again one more time so that people can go check out your website and your platform and can contribute
[01:29:09.000 --> 01:29:14.000]  Okay, it's erica4flugerville.com and it's E-R-I-C-A and it's the number four
[01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:20.000]  And flugerville is P-F-L-U-G-E-R-V-I-L-L-E.com
[01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:25.000]  And she is a member of the Texans for Accountable Government Steering Committee
[01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:27.000]  Yes, I'm on the steering committee
[01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:30.000]  So this is excellent, it shows where her head is at
[01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:35.000]  So people out there, if you live in Flugerville, please give Erica Green-Yount your vote
[01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:40.000]  All right, thank you Erica so much for joining us and thank you for giving us so much of your time
[01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:43.000]  Oh, thank you guys, this was very helpful, I really appreciate it
[01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:46.000]  Excellent, wonderful, all right, we'll be talking with you off air more about this
[01:29:46.000 --> 01:29:48.000]  Okay, all right, thank you
[01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:51.000]  Okay, we're going now to break and we'll be taking your calls on the other side
[01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:55.000]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
[01:29:55.000 --> 01:30:02.000]  Gold prices are at historic highs and with the recent pullback, this is a great time to buy
[01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:08.000]  With the value of the dollar, risks of inflation, geo-political uncertainties and instability in world financial systems
[01:30:08.000 --> 01:30:10.000]  I see gold going up much higher
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[01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:27.000]  Chippin' on me, chippin' on your B.A.B. Chippin' on your family, whole family
[01:31:27.000 --> 01:31:32.000]  Chippin' on your dog and the cat around me Chippin' on the beef and your stable E.T.
[01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:37.000]  Chippin' on the fish, them all in the sea Chippin' on the shark and the whale around me
[01:31:37.000 --> 01:31:39.000]  You know still mankind go and chip crazy
[01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:41.000]  Okay, we are back
[01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:45.000]  We want to put a chip in everybody
[01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:48.000]  And we're definitely finding that issue as well
[01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:52.000]  Okay, we have a couple of callers on the line, Randy from Texas and Eddie from Texas
[01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:54.000]  Callers, if you'd like to call in
[01:31:54.000 --> 01:31:56.000]  It's open lines, open minds
[01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:59.000]  512-646-1984
[01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:01.000]  We're going to go to Randy in Texas first
[01:32:01.000 --> 01:32:03.000]  Okay, Randy, thanks for calling in
[01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:05.000]  What's on your mind tonight? You have a question for us?
[01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:08.000]  Yeah, Randy, I talked to you earlier about this
[01:32:08.000 --> 01:32:16.000]  But the guy that the police in El Paso went after was Darren Hunt of ABC 7 News
[01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:21.000]  And basically they were covering a car crash on I-10
[01:32:21.000 --> 01:32:30.000]  And the policeman came over the, what do you call it, the chain link fence barrier there
[01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:35.000]  And then basically detained them, handcuffed them and basically arrested them
[01:32:35.000 --> 01:32:37.000]  And then they finally let them go
[01:32:37.000 --> 01:32:45.000]  But my thinking was that this would be a perfect opportunity to contact these folks
[01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:47.000]  And kind of walk them through the process
[01:32:47.000 --> 01:32:51.000]  And maybe get some coverage on both sides, the radio and the TV
[01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:56.000]  Yes, Darren Hunt with what news?
[01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:59.000]  He's with ABC 7 crew
[01:32:59.000 --> 01:33:06.000]  If you just type in Darren Hunt ABC 7, it'll pop up, it's in El Paso
[01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:08.000]  Good, good
[01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:10.000]  So that'll be a hoot
[01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:13.000]  Maybe we can get him to go after, probably won't be able to
[01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:19.000]  Generally, news reporters don't want the police mad at him
[01:33:19.000 --> 01:33:22.000]  Well, because then they don't get any leads
[01:33:22.000 --> 01:33:28.000]  They don't get any, you know, special leeway
[01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:30.000]  But it'll sure be worth a try
[01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:36.000]  It would be nice if he would make a story out of going after Mr. I can arrest you if I want to
[01:33:36.000 --> 01:33:46.000]  Well, what was interesting is you'll see in the, if you'll Google the video, you will see the police officer whose name is
[01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:49.000]  What is his name?
[01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:54.000]  Sergeant Raul Ramirez
[01:33:54.000 --> 01:34:01.000]  He jumps across the barrier and then starts just screaming at this guy and pushing him
[01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:05.000]  And then finally handcuffs him and kind of throws him up against the fence
[01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:09.000]  And then he goes after the cameraman and knocks the camera out of his hand and it's laying on the floor
[01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:16.000]  And you can kind of see in the shadow that he's pushing on this guy and beating on him a little bit
[01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:22.000]  Good, maybe we can get him to charge him with aggravated assault
[01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:24.000]  Works for me
[01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:27.000]  You know, you hear a lot about police brutality
[01:34:27.000 --> 01:34:31.000]  Well, there is no such charge as police brutality
[01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:43.000]  But there is a charge for assault by a police officer or by a public official who's displaying a deadly weapon
[01:34:43.000 --> 01:34:49.000]  And that's called aggravated assault, it's a first degree felony
[01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:52.000]  And they should file it against this chump
[01:34:52.000 --> 01:34:57.000]  Yeah, and besides, you start Paige, which is exquite, no Google
[01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:10.000]  Well, I agree with that too, but the thing is this guy also I believe has already 12, you know, excessive force charges against him over his career
[01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:13.000]  Oh, then he absolutely needs aggravated assault
[01:35:13.000 --> 01:35:18.000]  He's ripe for a plucking
[01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:23.000]  Maybe we can pluck his sergeant feathers
[01:35:23.000 --> 01:35:27.000]  Well, anyway, that's what I had to offer for you guys tonight
[01:35:27.000 --> 01:35:29.000]  Okay, thanks a lot, Randy
[01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:30.000]  Thanks, Randy
[01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:34.000]  Okay, yeah, we're going to now go to Eddie in Texas
[01:35:34.000 --> 01:35:37.000]  Hey, Eddie, thanks for calling in, what's on your mind tonight?
[01:35:37.000 --> 01:35:45.000]  Yeah, I was listening to you guys a while ago when you were talking about how the attorney general only has prosecutorial power against the DA
[01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:50.000]  Well, how about in the situation I've got with the comptroller folks then, Randy
[01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:56.000]  Considering that our district attorney has got 60 plus felony counts for refusal to accept the criminal complaints
[01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:59.000]  Why don't I just send them to you and let you file them with the attorney general?
[01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:08.000]  Well, the attorney general only has prosecutorial power on a complaint under the open records act
[01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:09.000]  Ah, okay
[01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:19.000]  That's the only time he's designated as the prosecutor of the original jurisdiction when it's a complaint against the county or district attorney
[01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:20.000]  Okay
[01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:21.000]  Then it goes to him
[01:36:21.000 --> 01:36:25.000]  Well, I had an interesting phone call appear on my caller ID today
[01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:32.000]  I actually got called by the district attorney's office and when I returned the phone call because I was out when it came
[01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:35.000]  I was informed that they didn't know who had called me
[01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:43.000]  So they started asking around and she came back on the line and said it must have been our investigator Marvin who isn't here right now
[01:36:43.000 --> 01:36:46.000]  It's got to be him, he's the only one that's not here
[01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:48.000]  And no one else knows why you'd be called
[01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:53.000]  So I'm kind of waiting to see what happens tomorrow because they never return my call again today
[01:36:53.000 --> 01:37:02.000]  But I wonder just how happy they're going to be if they found out that I was down there handing out those criminal complaints against our DA at the Tea Party
[01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:09.000]  They may have found out and he may be calling to try to intimidate you
[01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:16.000]  Possibly, that's going to be a phone call or a conversation I record though so we may want to put that on the show one day
[01:37:16.000 --> 01:37:19.000]  Oh, that would be a hoot
[01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:28.000]  And he needs to be reminded that you have criminal charges against the prosecuting attorney
[01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:30.000]  Oh, I'll remind him of that
[01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:39.000]  I'm willing to bet you that some of those people that I gave those out to at the Tea Party have called in wanting to know why these charges were not taken
[01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:44.000]  Good, okay, there's another little piece of information that goes with that
[01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:45.000]  Okay
[01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:49.000]  The prosecutorial team
[01:37:49.000 --> 01:37:50.000]  Say that again
[01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:53.000]  The prosecutorial team
[01:37:53.000 --> 01:38:01.000]  The investigator for the prosecuting attorney's office and the police are all members of the prosecutorial team
[01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:02.000]  Okay
[01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:08.000]  So if the prosecutor is disqualified, the team is disqualified
[01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:16.000]  You filed criminal charges against the prosecutor, the team must stand down
[01:38:16.000 --> 01:38:17.000]  Alright
[01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:22.000]  Anybody messages you, anybody says anything about it
[01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:31.000]  You go after the prosecutor and accuse him of sending that person personally to retaliate against you
[01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:34.000]  Yeah, symbiotic relationship and they're going to pay for it
[01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:43.000]  Yes, that will get their attention and I have had some great fun with prosecutorial team
[01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:47.000]  Alright, well that's helpful and I'll definitely make use of that
[01:38:47.000 --> 01:38:57.000]  Okay, and am I suggesting for an investigator because generally they're kind of the dopes, the guys they use to push everybody around
[01:38:57.000 --> 01:38:58.000]  Mm-hmm
[01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:03.000]  Make him send whatever he has to say to you in writing
[01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:13.000]  If they can't talk to you, if they can't reason with you, that makes you just that much more difficult
[01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:23.000]  When I was in Amarillo and I asked the lieutenant of the bailiffs to arrest the district clerk and he refused
[01:39:23.000 --> 01:39:28.000]  Then I called the sheriff's department and asked them to send somebody out there to arrest both of them
[01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:37.000]  A little while later the lieutenant and the district clerk came out and the clerk had the records I had asked for earlier and she refused
[01:39:37.000 --> 01:39:42.000]  The lieutenant started to say something to me and I held up both hands to him for him to stop
[01:39:42.000 --> 01:39:50.000]  I can't talk to you guys, I've got someone coming, I'll talk to him but I can't talk to you
[01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:56.000]  You should have seen the clerk, I thought she was going to vomit
[01:39:56.000 --> 01:40:04.000]  She cannot believe this is happening and this guy is absolutely unreasonable, he can't be dealt with
[01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:11.000]  That was the worst thing, the lieutenant was the same way, he couldn't believe I refused to talk to him
[01:40:11.000 --> 01:40:18.000]  He could not get me engaged with him and he's standing there with his mouth hanging open not knowing what to do
[01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:22.000]  Oh that was choice
[01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:25.000]  Well I can see how that would be
[01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:34.000]  And these guys are real good at confrontation so that's absolutely what they want to do is get you into a conversation where they can do their little song and dance
[01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:43.000]  And it makes no difference what you actually say, he will maintain that you said whatever he wants you to say
[01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:52.000]  And the first thing I would do is let him know that this call is being recorded for quality control purposes
[01:40:52.000 --> 01:41:01.000]  Well I'm actually going to go in one better than that, I'm going to tell him if you wish to speak to me the conversation must be in person
[01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:07.000]  I will not engage in any conversation regarding these criminal acts and criminal accusations over the phone
[01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:12.000]  It must be face to face or we have nothing to discuss
[01:41:12.000 --> 01:41:17.000]  That'll work, anything to make it difficult
[01:41:17.000 --> 01:41:26.000]  Yeah, well the thing is I am an ex deputy sheriff, I work down here in this same county at the county jail
[01:41:26.000 --> 01:41:31.000]  And I actually left that job when I found out that I was working for a bigger crook than those I had incarcerated
[01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:38.000]  Which needless to say is a complete downer when you approach it from that side of the job
[01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:44.000]  But it gives you an insight also as to how the game gets played by these people
[01:41:44.000 --> 01:41:54.000]  Now I didn't have the education I have now as far as what the outside world was seeing them as and had the opportunity to do
[01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:58.000]  But I have definitely latched onto the concept since I've met you
[01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:07.000]  Well good, but right now see you have criminal complaints and when I file complaints against them
[01:42:07.000 --> 01:42:15.000]  And then refuse to talk to them, that's what drove that sergeant over the edge at the secretary of state's building
[01:42:15.000 --> 01:42:22.000]  I had called the Austin police department to file criminal charges against them and I wouldn't talk to them
[01:42:22.000 --> 01:42:29.000]  They couldn't engage me and it just drove him over the edge
[01:42:29.000 --> 01:42:37.000]  Well believe it or not Randy since I've started the prosecution of these guys with these criminal charges
[01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:42.000]  Now anytime I encounter a Nacogdoches police officer who knows who I am
[01:42:42.000 --> 01:42:46.000]  They're the ones that turn corners or seek a different direction to go in
[01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:52.000]  I had the actual police lieutenant that arrested me during the comptroller raid
[01:42:52.000 --> 01:43:00.000]  I encountered him leaving the video store the other night and he actually turned away from me and hit his face
[01:43:00.000 --> 01:43:03.000]  In the hopes that I would not see him in his vehicle
[01:43:03.000 --> 01:43:08.000]  That's when you know you're getting their attention
[01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:09.000]  Yeah
[01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:13.000]  So what came of the sale of your property?
[01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:18.000]  So far nothing, they haven't called, they haven't showed up, they haven't anything
[01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:22.000]  I have gone down and filed a list of pendants
[01:43:22.000 --> 01:43:29.000]  I am still trying to get in touch with somebody willing to take the criminal complaints
[01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:32.000]  And that list is getting extremely long believe me
[01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:35.000]  Okay well wait a minute, hold on Eddie we're going to break
[01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:36.000]  Okay
[01:43:36.000 --> 01:43:39.000]  We can finish this on the other side, we also have Matt from Oklahoma
[01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:43.000]  And I'd like to take his call on the other side as well
[01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:51.000]  Okay we'll be right back, this is the rule of law Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens on ruleoflawradio.com
[01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:54.000]  512-646-1984
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[01:45:34.000 --> 01:45:39.000]  Some things in this world I will never understand
[01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:43.000]  Some things I realize fully
[01:45:43.000 --> 01:45:48.000]  Somebody's on a police, a policeman
[01:45:48.000 --> 01:45:51.000]  Somebody's on a bully, bully
[01:45:51.000 --> 01:45:56.000]  There's always a room at the top of the hill
[01:45:56.000 --> 01:46:01.000]  I hear through the grave mine and it's lonely left still
[01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:05.000]  They're wishing it was more than opposition to fill
[01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:09.000]  They know that if they don't do it, somebody will
[01:46:09.000 --> 01:46:13.000]  Some things in this world we'll never understand
[01:46:13.000 --> 01:46:17.000]  Some things I realize fully
[01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:22.000]  Somebody's on a police, a policeman
[01:46:22.000 --> 01:46:26.000]  Somebody's on a bully, bully
[01:46:26.000 --> 01:46:29.000]  I know they will, yeah
[01:46:29.000 --> 01:46:31.000]  They're gonna put the bill
[01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:35.000]  Cause I see so much injustice still
[01:46:35.000 --> 01:46:36.000]  I know they will
[01:46:36.000 --> 01:46:39.000]  Never fail to tip back the scale
[01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:40.000]  I know they will
[01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:43.000]  Never fail to tip back the scale
[01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:47.000]  I know they will
[01:46:47.000 --> 01:46:50.000]  I know they will
[01:46:50.000 --> 01:46:52.000]  I never know
[01:46:52.000 --> 01:46:53.000]  I know they will
[01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:56.000]  Let's take you now
[01:46:56.000 --> 01:46:58.000]  I know they will
[01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:02.000]  Okay, we are back. The Rule of Law, Radie Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[01:47:02.000 --> 01:47:05.000]  here on RuleOfLawRadio.com
[01:47:05.000 --> 01:47:09.000]  We're speaking with Eddie from Texas, Matt from Oklahoma. You are next
[01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:12.000]  Callers, we got one more segment if you'd like to call in
[01:47:12.000 --> 01:47:16.000]  512-646-1984
[01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:22.000]  Okay, Eddie, go ahead. You were explaining why as we went to the break
[01:47:22.000 --> 01:47:26.000]  Yeah, I was just saying that the list of people that
[01:47:26.000 --> 01:47:30.000]  won't accept these criminal complaints is just getting longer all the time
[01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:32.000]  I'm sure
[01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:35.000]  I take it you're adding each one to the list?
[01:47:35.000 --> 01:47:38.000]  Yes, sir, I am. Every time it's refused
[01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:42.000]  I get them on tape saying, okay, here's the date and time
[01:47:42.000 --> 01:47:47.000]  here's the criminal complaints, you refused it, your name was what, I beg your pardon?
[01:47:47.000 --> 01:47:51.000]  Have you tried magistrates?
[01:47:51.000 --> 01:47:56.000]  Well, I've gone to a couple of the local JPs
[01:47:56.000 --> 01:48:01.000]  so far no luck, but then again these are both boys club JPs around here too
[01:48:01.000 --> 01:48:05.000]  Okay, it may be time to go see Judge Hand
[01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:11.000]  I've got him to pretty well agree to come on the show
[01:48:11.000 --> 01:48:16.000]  I want him to talk about where a
[01:48:16.000 --> 01:48:21.000]  a magistrate, where a JP lives, but he's an ex-DEA agent
[01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:26.000]  the guy's a hoot, he left the DEA because he was disgusted with him
[01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:31.000]  and he will do what the law says if it hair-lips the pope
[01:48:31.000 --> 01:48:33.000]  and
[01:48:33.000 --> 01:48:35.000]  Well, that's who we need
[01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:37.000]  We've talked to him, we've shown him the law
[01:48:37.000 --> 01:48:39.000]  Well, where is he a judge, Randy?
[01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:40.000]  In Roanoke, Texas
[01:48:40.000 --> 01:48:41.000]  Which is?
[01:48:41.000 --> 01:48:47.000]  It's right, it's north of Fort Worth, about halfway between Dallas and Fort Worth
[01:48:47.000 --> 01:48:48.000]  Okay
[01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:51.000]  It's actually in Denton County
[01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:54.000]  but if we give him criminal complaints
[01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:59.000]  he will look at the complaint, make a probable cause determination
[01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:02.000]  and forward it to the clerk of the court of jurisdiction
[01:49:02.000 --> 01:49:06.000]  just exactly like 17.30 commands him to do
[01:49:08.000 --> 01:49:09.000]  Okay
[01:49:09.000 --> 01:49:13.000]  So this way the clerk gets it from a judge
[01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:17.000]  Yeah, it'd be a lot harder to refuse that way
[01:49:17.000 --> 01:49:20.000]  Oh, then we can really go after the clerk because
[01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:23.000]  17.31
[01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:25.000]  says
[01:49:25.000 --> 01:49:31.000]  the clerk shall keep all those papers safe and deliver them up to the next grand jury
[01:49:33.000 --> 01:49:35.000]  That would be what I need
[01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:40.000]  Also, I'll go ahead and get off the line, but Randy, after the show, would you mind giving me a call?
[01:49:40.000 --> 01:49:42.000]  Soitny
[01:49:42.000 --> 01:49:44.000]  Okay, because your voicemail's full
[01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:45.000]  Oh, yeah
[01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:47.000]  I was going to fix that
[01:49:47.000 --> 01:49:49.000]  Okay, yes
[01:49:49.000 --> 01:49:51.000]  Thank you for calling in, Eddie
[01:49:51.000 --> 01:49:52.000]  Uh-huh, bye-bye
[01:49:52.000 --> 01:49:56.000]  Okay, we've got Matt from Oklahoma, also Mike from Texas has called in
[01:49:56.000 --> 01:49:58.000]  We'll take Mike next, we're going to Matt now
[01:49:58.000 --> 01:50:01.000]  Hey, Matt, thanks for calling in, what's on your mind tonight?
[01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:04.000]  Matt
[01:50:04.000 --> 01:50:06.000]  Yeah, this ain't Matt, this is Frank
[01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:09.000]  Okay, what's on your mind tonight?
[01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:14.000]  Yeah, I'm, uh, I don't know how you got Matt from Oklahoma, but I'm Frank from Kansas
[01:50:14.000 --> 01:50:16.000]  Okay
[01:50:16.000 --> 01:50:19.000]  Alright, uh, just go ahead, Frank
[01:50:19.000 --> 01:50:21.000]  Maybe it's my crypto phone
[01:50:21.000 --> 01:50:23.000]  Probably so
[01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:32.000]  Um, I want to change the subject just a minute based on your Monday night show when Harmon Taylor mentioned Mina, Arkansas
[01:50:32.000 --> 01:50:34.000]  Yes
[01:50:34.000 --> 01:50:42.000]  Well, if you ever get the chance to get the book Compromise by Terry Reed or John Cummings, it's well worth your read
[01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:45.000]  It'll give you full detail of what happened with Mina
[01:50:45.000 --> 01:50:49.000]  Compromise?
[01:50:49.000 --> 01:50:52.000]  By who?
[01:50:52.000 --> 01:50:55.000]  By Terry Reed and John Cummings
[01:50:55.000 --> 01:50:59.000]  Terry Reed and John Cummings
[01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:09.000]  Terry Reed was hired by the CIA to teach the pilots, contra-pilots down at Mina
[01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:14.000]  I have personally met him at a talk he gave here
[01:51:14.000 --> 01:51:21.000]  And he worked for them training their pilots
[01:51:21.000 --> 01:51:28.000]  And one of the people involved down there, but he didn't use the name, was Oliver North
[01:51:28.000 --> 01:51:36.000]  And if you want the full detail of what happened there, that's the book to read because it gives you the full blown version
[01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:40.000]  Because Terry was an actual character in there
[01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:48.000]  And later on when he found out they were running dope out of Mexico, why he left them
[01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:55.000]  And before he could cross the border to Texas, from Mexico to Texas
[01:51:55.000 --> 01:52:01.000]  The FBI had a dossier out on him that he was a drug pusher and you name it
[01:52:01.000 --> 01:52:06.000]  And he spent six months running around the country with his wife and two boys
[01:52:06.000 --> 01:52:10.000]  Just to elude them until things got straightened out
[01:52:10.000 --> 01:52:13.000]  And it's quite a story
[01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:21.000]  And matter of fact, they tried to pin him on stealing an airplane
[01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:27.000]  And the court case was held in Wichita, Kansas and the judge seen right through what was happening
[01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:32.000]  That they were trying to con him into this for this one
[01:52:32.000 --> 01:52:35.000]  And the fact that he acquitted him of it
[01:52:35.000 --> 01:52:40.000]  But it's a book that once you start reading you can't lay it down
[01:52:40.000 --> 01:52:43.000]  That's awesome, thank you Frank for the tip
[01:52:43.000 --> 01:52:44.000]  You're welcome
[01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:47.000]  I enjoyed the show and have learned a lot, thank you
[01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:49.000]  Thank you Frank
[01:52:49.000 --> 01:52:53.000]  Alright, we're going to go now to Mike from Texas
[01:52:53.000 --> 01:52:57.000]  Hey Mike, thanks for calling in, what's on your mind tonight?
[01:52:57.000 --> 01:52:59.000]  Well thank you
[01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:03.000]  You guys have been talking a little bit about the tea parties
[01:53:03.000 --> 01:53:12.000]  Yeah, Eddie was down there handing out criminal complaints against the district attorney at his local tea party
[01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:14.000]  Yeah, it looks like we lost him
[01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:16.000]  Mike just dropped off the call board
[01:53:16.000 --> 01:53:20.000]  But yeah, I have some comments to say about those tea parties in general
[01:53:20.000 --> 01:53:24.000]  Which is, you know, they've been basically hijacked by the Republican party
[01:53:24.000 --> 01:53:28.000]  As a sort of a PR stunt, I would say
[01:53:28.000 --> 01:53:32.000]  And they're using all, you know, quoting, now they want to quote Jefferson
[01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:36.000]  Now they want to talk about individual liberties
[01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:39.000]  You know, where before the presidential election
[01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:43.000]  They're pushing for bigger government and all this spending and everything
[01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:46.000]  And they don't want to pay attention to Ron Paul
[01:53:46.000 --> 01:53:47.000]  And they don't want to pay attention to us
[01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:49.000]  And they want to discredit Ron Paul and us
[01:53:49.000 --> 01:53:50.000]  And all this kind of thing
[01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:52.000]  Oh, but now that the election's over
[01:53:52.000 --> 01:53:56.000]  Now they want to talk about individual liberties and freedoms
[01:53:56.000 --> 01:53:58.000]  And smaller government
[01:53:58.000 --> 01:54:02.000]  And to me they're just hijacking the whole tea party thing
[01:54:02.000 --> 01:54:05.000]  Which was basically
[01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:09.000]  The Ron Paul people were the ones who started that
[01:54:09.000 --> 01:54:11.000]  During his campaign
[01:54:11.000 --> 01:54:14.000]  You know, and as Holland said
[01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:17.000]  Holland Vanden Neuenauf on Radio Free Oklahoma
[01:54:17.000 --> 01:54:20.000]  He said the kind of talk that they're talking now
[01:54:20.000 --> 01:54:22.000]  Sounds like a cheesy pickup line in a bar
[01:54:22.000 --> 01:54:26.000]  You know, it's like they really expect us to believe them now
[01:54:26.000 --> 01:54:30.000]  It's like, where were they back then?
[01:54:30.000 --> 01:54:33.000]  You know, so I just can't believe it
[01:54:33.000 --> 01:54:34.000]  I can't buy it at all
[01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:36.000]  I mean, I'm glad that people are getting active
[01:54:36.000 --> 01:54:39.000]  And, you know, I certainly don't fault the people
[01:54:39.000 --> 01:54:41.000]  Who are like newcomers to the movement
[01:54:41.000 --> 01:54:43.000]  And who attended all these tea parties
[01:54:43.000 --> 01:54:45.000]  But I really just
[01:54:45.000 --> 01:54:47.000]  It's like the organizers
[01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:49.000]  And the way the Republican Party's just hijacking
[01:54:49.000 --> 01:54:51.000]  It's just a total PR stunt, in my opinion
[01:54:51.000 --> 01:54:55.000]  For their own benefit of the party
[01:54:55.000 --> 01:54:59.000]  These are people without an ounce of integrity
[01:54:59.000 --> 01:55:00.000]  Absolutely not
[01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:03.000]  They just see a market
[01:55:03.000 --> 01:55:05.000]  And they are just trying to
[01:55:05.000 --> 01:55:08.000]  Just glean off the market that they see
[01:55:08.000 --> 01:55:12.000]  You know, I once spent six days in jail
[01:55:12.000 --> 01:55:16.000]  This is when a sheriff's deputy tried to kill me in Wise County
[01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:19.000]  They changed the court dates on me and set me up
[01:55:19.000 --> 01:55:22.000]  But I learned something in there
[01:55:22.000 --> 01:55:26.000]  There were guys in there who were institutionalized
[01:55:26.000 --> 01:55:30.000]  And nothing they said had any meaning
[01:55:30.000 --> 01:55:33.000]  They didn't use language like you and I do
[01:55:33.000 --> 01:55:37.000]  I make sounds with my face
[01:55:37.000 --> 01:55:41.000]  And I expect them to have meaning to other people
[01:55:41.000 --> 01:55:44.000]  These guys didn't use language that way
[01:55:44.000 --> 01:55:48.000]  Everything they did was for the effect they wanted to get
[01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:51.000]  Made no difference, truth, honor, dignity
[01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:54.000]  None of that had anything to do with anything
[01:55:54.000 --> 01:56:00.000]  These Republicans remind me of those institutionalized criminals
[01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:06.000]  They use language just as a tool to affect their purpose
[01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:11.000]  Honor, dignity, not something they seem to know anything about
[01:56:11.000 --> 01:56:15.000]  All they know is expediency
[01:56:15.000 --> 01:56:18.000]  And look where the guys who've been using it wind up
[01:56:18.000 --> 01:56:27.000]  And these politicians, they would make good company
[01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:29.000]  For who? For whom?
[01:56:29.000 --> 01:56:30.000]  For the guys in jail
[01:56:30.000 --> 01:56:32.000]  Oh, okay, I see
[01:56:32.000 --> 01:56:39.000]  Yeah, all they could talk about was what they're going to have for their next meal
[01:56:39.000 --> 01:56:43.000]  And the caper they were going to pull when they got out of jail
[01:56:43.000 --> 01:56:45.000]  It was crazy
[01:56:45.000 --> 01:56:47.000]  Okay
[01:56:47.000 --> 01:56:57.000]  So in some cases I can kind of understand how police and jailers get jaded
[01:56:57.000 --> 01:57:02.000]  Because these guys will say anything
[01:57:02.000 --> 01:57:06.000]  So they get to where they don't believe one word they hear
[01:57:06.000 --> 01:57:10.000]  Yeah, well I like the quote from that defense attorney
[01:57:10.000 --> 01:57:14.000]  About how we have to deal with the lowest scum of the earth or something like that
[01:57:14.000 --> 01:57:19.000]  And these people will lie and do anything to forward their own agenda
[01:57:19.000 --> 01:57:25.000]  And we as defense attorneys have to protect their clients from these people
[01:57:25.000 --> 01:57:27.000]  You know, because you get this build up, right?
[01:57:27.000 --> 01:57:30.000]  And you're expecting them to talk about their clients
[01:57:30.000 --> 01:57:37.000]  No, they're talking about the prosecutors and the cops and, you know, the judges
[01:57:37.000 --> 01:57:39.000]  I just had that experience myself
[01:57:39.000 --> 01:57:42.000]  You know this story about me getting arrested at the State Department
[01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:44.000]  As Secretary of State's building
[01:57:44.000 --> 01:57:50.000]  I called the Austin Police Department and asked them to come out and arrest this officer
[01:57:50.000 --> 01:57:53.000]  Because he would not let me leave the building
[01:57:53.000 --> 01:58:01.000]  And then he filed a statement claiming that I refused to leave the building and he arrested me for criminal trespass
[01:58:01.000 --> 01:58:02.000]  Trespassing, yeah
[01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:04.000]  I got him on tape
[01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:06.000]  I know, I know
[01:58:06.000 --> 01:58:09.000]  Alright, well listen, we're coming to the end of the show
[01:58:09.000 --> 01:58:14.000]  We'll be back tomorrow evening for our info marathon
[01:58:14.000 --> 01:58:21.000]  And also don't forget to tune in at 6pm for Agenda 21 Talk with Greg Chapman and Don Terry
[01:58:21.000 --> 01:58:23.000]  We will be back tomorrow evening
[01:58:23.000 --> 01:58:52.000]  This has been the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
[01:58:53.000 --> 01:59:08.000]  This has been the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
[01:59:08.000 --> 01:59:27.000]  This has been the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
[01:59:27.000 --> 01:59:54.000]  This has been the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens
[01:59:57.000 --> 02:00:20.000]  This has been the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens