ROL_2018-10-05_16k_Hr3-4.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:29.520]  Markets for the 11th of April 2018 close with gold $1,353.22 an ounce.
[00:29.520 --> 00:34.520]  $16.68 an ounce. Texas Crude $65.51 a barrel.
[00:34.520 --> 00:44.000]  Bitcoin $6,902.19. Ethereum $420.80. Bitcoin Cash $652.90.
[00:44.000 --> 00:55.520]  Bitcoin Cash $14.34 a crypto coin.
[00:55.520 --> 01:00.960]  Today in history, the year 1968, President Lyndon Midd Johnson signed the Civil Rights
[01:00.960 --> 01:06.560]  Act of 1968, which prohibited private businesses from discriminating based on race, color, religion,
[01:06.560 --> 01:11.400]  sex, or national origin. It also prohibited unequal application of voter registration
[01:11.400 --> 01:16.760]  requirements, racial segregation in public schools, in employment, and public accommodations
[01:16.760 --> 01:24.000]  for places of business. Today in history.
[01:24.000 --> 01:28.040]  In recent news, tensions in Syria seem to have reached new levels after a chemical attack
[01:28.040 --> 01:32.320]  on civilians in the city of Douma, which left 40 dead and many injured, an attack which
[01:32.320 --> 01:36.760]  is being blamed on the democratically elected president of Syria, Bashar al-Assad, by the
[01:36.760 --> 01:41.520]  United States and on Israel by Russia, either accusatory narrative without any verified
[01:41.520 --> 01:46.360]  evidence as of yet. President Trump tweeted today Wednesday that if, quote, Russia vows
[01:46.360 --> 01:50.440]  to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria, get ready, Russia, because they will
[01:50.440 --> 01:55.040]  be coming in nice and new and smart, going on to warn Russia that you shouldn't be partners
[01:55.040 --> 01:59.480]  with a gas-killing animal who kills his people and enjoys it. Many in the West, including
[01:59.480 --> 02:04.560]  President Trump, have been quick to conclude that this chemical attack must have been conducted
[02:04.560 --> 02:09.680]  by Assad and his forces. Syria and Russia, on the other hand, have given approval since
[02:09.680 --> 02:14.000]  yesterday for the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons to investigate the side
[02:14.000 --> 02:18.680]  of the chemical slaughter. Assad has been successful in maintaining rule and support during Syria's
[02:18.680 --> 02:22.880]  seven-year civil war, a civil war that is being fought by the government of Syria and
[02:22.880 --> 02:28.400]  anti-Assad Syrian rebels that are openly being funded by Western governments, with ISIS being
[02:28.400 --> 02:33.000]  one of the more notorious splinter groups of the American-backed Syrian rebels. No surprise
[02:33.000 --> 02:38.440]  then why Russian Foreign Minister Spokeswoman Maria Zakoba posted on Facebook that smart
[02:38.440 --> 02:42.920]  missiles should be fired at terrorists and not at a legitimate government, which has
[02:42.920 --> 02:47.160]  been fighting terrorists. Or is this a trick to destroy all traces with a smart missile
[02:47.160 --> 03:11.160]  strike, and then there will be no evidence for international inspectors to look at?
[03:11.160 --> 03:31.880]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kilken, radio on this, the fifth of day of October, 2018, and
[03:31.880 --> 03:40.080]  we're talking to Tim in Texas. And for everyone, we do have room on our callboard, so if you
[03:40.080 --> 03:50.240]  have a question or comment, give us a call, 512-646-1984. Okay, Tim, what was being difficult
[03:50.240 --> 03:58.280]  here? We talked about this earlier about addressing this individual who filed to be
[03:58.280 --> 04:08.040]  on the council who was a Canadian citizen, and that the knowledge of his Canadian citizenship
[04:08.040 --> 04:17.400]  came out too late for someone else to sign up to run. And the information was that Diane
[04:17.400 --> 04:26.720]  Razer, the administrator, knew this information, but he had that information until it was too
[04:26.720 --> 04:32.920]  late for someone else to step up and take that position so that they could get someone
[04:32.920 --> 04:41.280]  on that, that somebody could get someone on that was more aligned with what they wanted.
[04:41.280 --> 04:45.800]  And I was kind of concerned about bringing that up because it was somewhat irrelevant
[04:45.800 --> 04:56.640]  to the issue before us. And now it's clear that the guy was a Canadian citizen. He didn't
[04:56.640 --> 05:05.240]  reveal that when he signed up. Was there any way for Diane, I know she comes up to bad
[05:05.240 --> 05:15.480]  guy here, but in order for us to raise legitimate and well-founded arguments, we need to turn
[05:15.480 --> 05:23.880]  chessboard around on occasion. Was there some way that Diane Razer could have known that
[05:23.880 --> 05:34.520]  this guy was a Canadian citizen? I don't know. I'm doubted, but I can tell you this. I'd
[05:34.520 --> 05:39.600]  have to ask my wife. She's signed up before to do that. Let me see if she... Laura, when
[05:39.600 --> 05:48.000]  you sign up to vote, do you have to put that you're a registered voter? Yeah, she'll have
[05:48.000 --> 05:52.840]  to look it up. But anyway, that's the only question. But when I did raise that question
[05:52.840 --> 05:57.480]  to them, they said, no, someone from the neighborhood called down and said, did you know that Brad
[05:57.480 --> 06:03.520]  Reed is a Canadian citizen? Well, how would they know? Yeah, so it could be someone who
[06:03.520 --> 06:13.760]  does it personally. That's reasonable. And so to vilify Diane for something that she
[06:13.760 --> 06:21.680]  will at least have the semblance of a valid argument or defense for will make it look
[06:21.680 --> 06:30.480]  like you're unreasonably attacking this person. You want to only attack the person for something
[06:30.480 --> 06:39.960]  that you could show as absolutely wrongful. We showed them tons of documents from the
[06:39.960 --> 06:46.000]  get-go when this all started. We showed that the Code Enforcement Officer, that's another
[06:46.000 --> 06:54.240]  thing. You asked us to mention tonight was that he had committed aggravated perjury.
[06:54.240 --> 07:00.160]  And they're like, you know, kind of... Now, that's absolutely dead big. Now, that's
[07:00.160 --> 07:05.720]  great to bring. You want to bring stuff they can't argue against. Well, we showed them
[07:05.720 --> 07:11.480]  why it was valid. We showed that we even took it up before Taylor Burton, who is now...
[07:11.480 --> 07:16.060]  He was on the administrative board and he wasn't on council then, but he's on council now.
[07:16.060 --> 07:20.480]  We said we stuck it in front of Jeanine. We stuck it in front of him and they rejected
[07:20.480 --> 07:29.960]  it at the administrative board. So anything that we had to say, you know, was used against
[07:29.960 --> 07:34.560]  us and they didn't take any evidence that we had in our favor.
[07:34.560 --> 07:43.800]  If Taylor Burton had... If you put in front of him information to indicate that some of
[07:43.800 --> 07:54.560]  the evidence before him was perjured, then he doesn't get to just ignore it. That's subordination
[07:54.560 --> 08:06.880]  of perjury. And that makes him equally liable with the code enforcement officer.
[08:06.880 --> 08:15.280]  And since he's acting in the... Under the authority of the city of Newark, it essentially
[08:15.280 --> 08:23.480]  makes the city of Newark culpable for the behavior of their representatives. Not criminally,
[08:23.480 --> 08:27.480]  but certainly civilly for denial of the process.
[08:27.480 --> 08:36.480]  Well, we have to now get to this mediation thing, so we have to...
[08:36.480 --> 08:47.480]  Mediation has got me intrigued. The Court of Appeals ordered mediation. Holy mackerel.
[08:47.480 --> 08:59.320]  That don't happen often. So you have a procé taking on a law firm and the Court of Appeals
[08:59.320 --> 09:07.720]  is ordering mediation. Now, you know, if the Court of Appeals ordered mediation in every
[09:07.720 --> 09:16.640]  instance where mediation could be ordered, that would be different, but they don't. So
[09:16.640 --> 09:20.640]  the question becomes, why did they order mediation in this case?
[09:20.640 --> 09:24.640]  Well, it says to clear their docket.
[09:24.640 --> 09:31.360]  Don't pay any attention to what they say. Why didn't they order mediation in my suit
[09:31.360 --> 09:37.320]  with a friend of mine who has a mortgage issue? They didn't order mediation there, and we
[09:37.320 --> 09:42.480]  maintained that these guys were outside the statute of limitations and affirmative defense.
[09:42.480 --> 09:49.480]  They didn't order mediation there. This is off. So they blew him off when he had an
[09:49.480 --> 09:57.160]  absolute concrete affirmative defense. They just blew it off. So why in this case they
[09:57.160 --> 09:58.160]  ordered mediation?
[09:58.160 --> 10:02.320]  I don't know.
[10:02.320 --> 10:10.560]  These guys are scoundrels. They're not going to order mediation without some... You didn't
[10:10.560 --> 10:12.560]  request mediation.
[10:12.560 --> 10:14.560]  No, I didn't.
[10:14.560 --> 10:23.280]  This is suesponte. So I'm thinking, let's go sit back in the chamber with the judges
[10:23.280 --> 10:29.240]  and the clerks, and they're discussing this case. Why on earth would they say we want
[10:29.240 --> 10:36.200]  order mediation? Who are they trying to protect?
[10:36.200 --> 10:39.000]  I don't know. I'm still...
[10:39.000 --> 10:47.480]  I'm thinking they do not want to render a ruling in favor of a two-bit chump pro se
[10:47.480 --> 10:48.480]  hillbilly.
[10:48.480 --> 10:49.480]  Okay.
[10:49.480 --> 10:56.680]  They're trying everything they can to keep from having to rule in your favor.
[10:56.680 --> 10:57.680]  Okay.
[10:57.680 --> 11:09.440]  So they order mediation so that they don't have to step up on the dime.
[11:09.440 --> 11:11.640]  Well...
[11:11.640 --> 11:21.040]  That's my perspective. These guys see a problem coming at them. They gave the judge an opportunity
[11:21.040 --> 11:23.680]  to fix this, and he didn't.
[11:23.680 --> 11:25.680]  Okay.
[11:25.680 --> 11:34.120]  They gave the judge an opportunity to say that the $80,000 they claim based on an ongoing
[11:34.120 --> 11:43.280]  violation is not valid because the original determination that there was a violation has
[11:43.280 --> 11:49.000]  been thrown out, but the judge wasn't smart enough to pick it up, so he threw it back
[11:49.000 --> 11:53.280]  in the lap with a court of appeals.
[11:53.280 --> 11:57.000]  They gave him an opportunity to fix it, and he didn't.
[11:57.000 --> 12:08.120]  So now they're trying to keep from screwing this law firm, trying to keep a ruling in
[12:08.120 --> 12:10.160]  favor of a pro se.
[12:10.160 --> 12:16.200]  The American Bar Association, I mean, the Texas Bar Association has in an article to
[12:16.200 --> 12:28.480]  the state bar claimed that 25% of all cases now are handed pro se, and they cast ties to
[12:28.480 --> 12:33.720]  the lawyers because the public no longer trusts lawyers.
[12:33.720 --> 12:37.280]  You guys got to do something.
[12:37.280 --> 12:44.600]  And it appears as though the courts are doing everything they can to absolutely vilify pro
[12:44.600 --> 12:50.320]  se litigants in order to force them to hire lawyers.
[12:50.320 --> 12:56.080]  And now we've got one that the lawyers were so ignorant and so arrogant that they got
[12:56.080 --> 13:00.160]  the case pushed to the court of appeals, and now the court of appeals is looking at having
[13:00.160 --> 13:10.000]  to rule against these lawyers, and look like they're not a member of the group that their
[13:10.000 --> 13:15.000]  snouts are not in the same trough, but the lawyers didn't give them anything to work
[13:15.000 --> 13:17.200]  with.
[13:17.200 --> 13:21.960]  So they're saying to the lawyers, do something.
[13:21.960 --> 13:27.240]  Don't bring this back to me, because if you do, we're going to have to stick it to you,
[13:27.240 --> 13:30.120]  and we do not want to.
[13:30.120 --> 13:36.240]  That's what I'm reading from them ordering, Suspente ordering mediation.
[13:36.240 --> 13:43.320]  It would be different if you had asked them to, but they didn't, Suspente.
[13:43.320 --> 13:48.320]  So I think they're telling these lawyers, you better fix something here, because if
[13:48.320 --> 13:52.160]  you don't, we're going to have to stick it to you.
[13:52.160 --> 13:56.040]  Well we've got a week to come up with something.
[13:56.040 --> 14:04.600]  One way or the other, they gave us three options, but it said it did not change any of the timelines
[14:04.600 --> 14:09.200]  to come speak to appeals, so we've still got to do our own.
[14:09.200 --> 14:11.480]  We will have a timely appeal in.
[14:11.480 --> 14:12.480]  That is not a concern.
[14:12.480 --> 14:14.520]  I have most of it written.
[14:14.520 --> 14:17.040]  We've talked about this before.
[14:17.040 --> 14:26.480]  As I write documents, everything I write is considering we're going to have an appeal.
[14:26.480 --> 14:29.360]  So each document builds toward appeal.
[14:29.360 --> 14:35.320]  We have the lawyers on the other side complaining that we were doing cutting and pasting.
[14:35.320 --> 14:38.120]  As a matter of fact, we are.
[14:38.120 --> 14:40.960]  The first document was written.
[14:40.960 --> 14:47.880]  The answer to the original suit was written as a preparatory document for the appeal
[14:47.880 --> 14:51.000]  to the court of appeals.
[14:51.000 --> 14:55.880]  Every document since then was intended to build on that document toward an appellate
[14:55.880 --> 14:56.880]  document.
[14:56.880 --> 14:59.080]  So yeah, we're going to cut and paste.
[14:59.080 --> 15:00.480]  We're going to make the same arguments.
[15:00.480 --> 15:04.440]  We're going to be consistent in those arguments because we're going to cut and paste them.
[15:04.440 --> 15:10.040]  Then when it comes time for appeal, we have a motion for reconsideration that is essentially
[15:10.040 --> 15:12.000]  an appellate document.
[15:12.000 --> 15:16.920]  We take that appellate document, change the headings on it, add a little more case law
[15:16.920 --> 15:19.400]  to it, file it as an appeal.
[15:19.400 --> 15:25.640]  If we don't like it, if we ran out of time and it's not as good as we want, who cares?
[15:25.640 --> 15:32.400]  We get it filed within the timeline, once it's filed, then we get it entered.
[15:32.400 --> 15:33.920]  But we will make sure we meet the timelines.
[15:33.920 --> 15:40.000]  This is what these lawyers have been trying to do the whole time is force you into a position
[15:40.000 --> 15:43.080]  to miss a timeline or you have not missed them.
[15:43.080 --> 15:47.000]  They claim that you did not file the appeal in time before they didn't tell the city
[15:47.000 --> 15:51.160]  where they said you didn't file in time as it would file a motion for reconsideration
[15:51.160 --> 15:53.920]  and that stopped the clock.
[15:53.920 --> 15:59.920]  They didn't start again until we denied the motion for reconsideration.
[15:59.920 --> 16:03.040]  They lied to the city.
[16:03.040 --> 16:09.440]  Tim has a letter that was sent to the city by the lawyers and they lied to the city.
[16:09.440 --> 16:16.440]  They're saying that Tim's appeal time table is up but they didn't tell the city that
[16:16.440 --> 16:22.880]  Tim filed a motion for reconsideration after the final judgment and that stopped the clock.
[16:22.880 --> 16:26.680]  They just literally lied to their clients.
[16:26.680 --> 16:31.240]  We're coming after them for baritry so these guys are scrambling to keep themselves out
[16:31.240 --> 16:32.240]  of jail.
[16:32.240 --> 16:35.240]  This move along pretty good.
[16:35.240 --> 16:37.160]  Hang on, we're about to go to break.
[16:37.160 --> 16:38.480]  We'll pick this up on the other side.
[16:38.480 --> 16:41.600]  This is Randy Kelton, root of law radio.
[16:41.600 --> 16:45.560]  Our call in number 512-646-1984.
[16:45.560 --> 16:47.840]  If you have a question or comment, give us a call.
[16:47.840 --> 16:53.600]  We've got about almost two more hours so we have time to get to everyone.
[16:53.600 --> 16:56.600]  We'll be right back.
[16:56.600 --> 17:10.280]  It's the 2018 Logos Radio Network annual fundraiser and gun giveaway sponsored by Central Texas
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[18:59.520 --> 19:00.520]  next.
[19:00.520 --> 19:10.520]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network at www.logosradio-network.com.
[19:10.520 --> 19:18.520]  Well, don't let nothing get to you, only the father can do it by you, and don't let bad
[19:18.520 --> 19:23.520]  mind people hurt you until they start getting behind you.
[19:23.520 --> 19:36.680]  Okay, we are back, Randy Kelton, for Rule of Law Radio, and we're talking to Tim in
[19:36.680 --> 19:42.040]  Texas, and for those who haven't followed the saga, Tim's been in court with these people
[19:42.040 --> 19:46.320]  for over a year, and they have been absolutely vicious.
[19:46.320 --> 19:55.040]  They've done everything they could to force Tim to make a deal with, to do something to
[19:55.040 --> 20:01.280]  make a deal and bail out, and he stood his ground.
[20:01.280 --> 20:12.760]  Now the worm is turning, the city is turned against the lawyers, the city council is understandably
[20:12.760 --> 20:21.400]  trying to protect their position, but because the city itself has turned against the council
[20:21.400 --> 20:26.440]  and the lawyers, the city council has now put in a position to where they have to find
[20:26.440 --> 20:27.940]  a way out of this.
[20:27.940 --> 20:38.680]  What they can't do is admit guilt, and what Tim and Laura and I have talked about is everything
[20:38.680 --> 20:40.440]  is political.
[20:40.440 --> 20:49.120]  So we need to give the city council a way to deflect blame.
[20:49.120 --> 20:52.640]  So let's all blame the lawyers.
[20:52.640 --> 21:00.080]  Tim is going to be accusing the lawyers of baritry, and Texas, you know, I talk about
[21:00.080 --> 21:06.400]  the corpus jurist body of law, and the Texas has the best body of law of any state I've
[21:06.400 --> 21:08.520]  ever looked at.
[21:08.520 --> 21:13.520]  It's about any remedy you need you can find in Texas law.
[21:13.520 --> 21:14.520]  Baritry is one of them.
[21:14.520 --> 21:23.280]  Texas is the only state in the union that has baritry laws, and in this case, the very
[21:23.280 --> 21:30.360]  first thing Tim did in his first response to the first claim was accuse the lawyers
[21:30.360 --> 21:36.680]  of baritry, and that's been a common theme through the whole case.
[21:36.680 --> 21:44.760]  And now we're out the back side going to appeal, still accusing the lawyers of baritry.
[21:44.760 --> 21:51.160]  We got a court of appeals ruling in our favor showing that the original prosecution was
[21:51.160 --> 21:59.880]  void and fraudulent, and now we're going to the appellate court with the same claims
[21:59.880 --> 22:09.080]  of baritry against the lawyers, and no real claims of wrongdoing against the city.
[22:09.080 --> 22:16.120]  We did file a declaratory judgment against the city claiming that the city could not
[22:16.120 --> 22:25.160]  enforce its ordinances against a individual, but could only enforce its ordinances against
[22:25.160 --> 22:32.160]  a employee of the city or someone in contract with the city.
[22:32.160 --> 22:39.320]  As the legislature was authorized to write law, but they were not authorized to delegate
[22:39.320 --> 22:45.520]  that authority, and that if the city ordinances were applied to the public in general, they
[22:45.520 --> 22:50.320]  would become laws and the city did not have power to write a law.
[22:50.320 --> 22:53.360]  They only had power to write an ordinance.
[22:53.360 --> 22:56.280]  That was the argument that we made.
[22:56.280 --> 23:03.520]  We didn't ask for any damages from the city, so only for the court to rule whether or not
[23:03.520 --> 23:07.840]  the ordinance is applied to a private citizen.
[23:07.840 --> 23:13.280]  So we didn't go after the city directly, just kind of an indirect bank shot at them.
[23:13.280 --> 23:16.280]  We went after the lawyers specifically.
[23:16.280 --> 23:23.560]  That brought up the fact that one of their council members on public media had accused
[23:23.560 --> 23:27.280]  us of being the first to sue the city.
[23:27.280 --> 23:35.040]  That's an uninformed council member.
[23:35.040 --> 23:38.560]  My suggestion is to be careful of the arguments we make.
[23:38.560 --> 23:44.680]  We're trying to sift the city on the lawyers.
[23:44.680 --> 23:50.400]  And bring an argument that tends to incriminate the city.
[23:50.400 --> 23:56.640]  So the council member did that, but he did that from bad information.
[23:56.640 --> 23:58.640]  He didn't read the suit.
[23:58.640 --> 24:00.600]  He didn't really know what was going on.
[24:00.600 --> 24:09.000]  He's just repeating what he's heard from somebody, probably Diane Razer, that discredited
[24:09.000 --> 24:14.120]  and fired and released a city administrator.
[24:14.120 --> 24:18.640]  Was they real careful any time I ever said anything about Diane to not say anything?
[24:18.640 --> 24:22.280]  Yes, they're trying to keep from getting sued.
[24:22.280 --> 24:23.280]  Yes.
[24:23.280 --> 24:27.480]  And that's because they see you coming back at them.
[24:27.480 --> 24:34.480]  They know they lost Diane Razer and that you were claiming that she was the one instigating
[24:34.480 --> 24:36.360]  all of this.
[24:36.360 --> 24:41.920]  And the fact that they had to let her go indicates that she is not credible.
[24:41.920 --> 24:44.280]  So it weakens their position.
[24:44.280 --> 24:46.720]  They see they have a very weak position.
[24:46.720 --> 24:54.040]  If they see you as not attacking the city, I said that over and over that I was not going
[24:54.040 --> 24:55.040]  after the city.
[24:55.040 --> 24:57.040]  I had never sued the city for damages.
[24:57.040 --> 25:01.080]  And one of the last things I said, I said, I have always complied with the city.
[25:01.080 --> 25:04.760]  As long as I was clear on what the city was requesting, I always complied.
[25:04.760 --> 25:10.280]  I said, you won't find on one document, on one email, one text, one Facebook message
[25:10.280 --> 25:15.520]  anywhere where it said that I did not want to comply with city law.
[25:15.520 --> 25:18.960]  And so if you're not blaming the city, you're only blaming the lawyers.
[25:18.960 --> 25:25.760]  And we're trying to set the city up so that they can blame the lawyers and not have to
[25:25.760 --> 25:27.840]  take responsibility themselves.
[25:27.840 --> 25:31.040]  Everybody needs a scapegoat.
[25:31.040 --> 25:33.600]  So let's feed them the lawyers.
[25:33.600 --> 25:44.960]  And the fact that the Court of Appeals has ordered mediation, I take that as a really
[25:44.960 --> 25:45.960]  big deal.
[25:45.960 --> 25:54.600]  This is a very good sign that things are moving in your direction.
[25:54.600 --> 25:59.520]  And if the lawyers are paying attention, they'll know what the Court of Appeals is telling
[25:59.520 --> 26:00.520]  them.
[26:00.520 --> 26:04.560]  They're telling them, don't let this come back to us.
[26:04.560 --> 26:06.680]  You're not like the outcome.
[26:06.680 --> 26:10.920]  Well, they suggested to the Council mediation because the Council wouldn't have come up
[26:10.920 --> 26:13.200]  with that on their own.
[26:13.200 --> 26:14.200]  Right.
[26:14.200 --> 26:16.200]  The Council wouldn't have.
[26:16.200 --> 26:17.200]  No.
[26:17.200 --> 26:20.720]  But nobody suggested this to the Court of Appeals.
[26:20.720 --> 26:21.720]  Right.
[26:21.720 --> 26:27.000]  Unless the Court of Appeals is paying attention to the local media.
[26:27.000 --> 26:30.800]  I don't know.
[26:30.800 --> 26:33.680]  I don't know.
[26:33.680 --> 26:43.400]  It's odd that the City Council ordered the lawyers to mediate with him.
[26:43.400 --> 26:52.320]  And then a week or so later the Court of Appeals orders the city and the lawyers to mediate
[26:52.320 --> 26:53.320]  with him.
[26:53.320 --> 26:57.160]  That's a little too coincidental.
[26:57.160 --> 27:06.120]  Well, since everything is CC to the law firm, is it unreasonable to believe that these attorneys
[27:06.120 --> 27:11.040]  didn't contact the appeal of the Court?
[27:11.040 --> 27:12.840]  Not a chance.
[27:12.840 --> 27:14.440]  Not a chance, huh?
[27:14.440 --> 27:15.440]  Not a chance.
[27:15.440 --> 27:22.240]  They're going to tell the appeal of the Court that the City has ordered us to mediate with
[27:22.240 --> 27:25.680]  the opposing Council to a opposition.
[27:25.680 --> 27:29.800]  I can't see any reason that this law firm would tell them that.
[27:29.800 --> 27:33.880]  I would think that's the last thing they would want to do because it would undermine
[27:33.880 --> 27:34.880]  their credibility.
[27:34.880 --> 27:38.520]  I don't know, man.
[27:38.520 --> 27:41.480]  So there's something else, Guy.
[27:41.480 --> 27:46.760]  You know, I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, if I'm these lawyers, I'm going to read this
[27:46.760 --> 27:54.400]  as the Court of Appeals telling me, you guys better make this go away because if it comes
[27:54.400 --> 27:58.880]  to us, you are not going to like what happens.
[27:58.880 --> 27:59.880]  Right.
[27:59.880 --> 28:05.160]  I'm going to say you're in a pretty good position here.
[28:05.160 --> 28:09.320]  This is a really good sign.
[28:09.320 --> 28:14.280]  If there's anything that's a bellwether, this is telling me that the Court has already
[28:14.280 --> 28:18.720]  knows they're going to rule in your favor, they're going to rule against the City.
[28:18.720 --> 28:22.040]  How could they know that when they haven't seen our appeal?
[28:22.040 --> 28:28.000]  They know the appeal's coming because you've already filed notice of appeal.
[28:28.000 --> 28:30.840]  You've just filed notice of appeal and you haven't filed the appeal.
[28:30.840 --> 28:35.080]  Why on earth would the Court of Appeals do anything?
[28:35.080 --> 28:37.880]  Well, they said that's a common practice of theirs.
[28:37.880 --> 28:40.960]  Yeah, I've never seen it before.
[28:40.960 --> 28:41.960]  Okay.
[28:41.960 --> 28:48.920]  And all the people I've helped, I have never, ever seen the Court of Appeals or the mediation,
[28:48.920 --> 28:49.920]  ever.
[28:49.920 --> 28:57.400]  Do a request through the Court of Appeals and ask them, how many people do you suggest
[28:57.400 --> 29:02.600]  in a civil dispute that want to appeal go to mediation beforehand?
[29:02.600 --> 29:04.800]  Okay, that's not the way to do it.
[29:04.800 --> 29:15.960]  Just from the Court of Appeals, all communications with any parties requesting that they enter
[29:15.960 --> 29:16.960]  mediation.
[29:16.960 --> 29:20.960]  Okay, but we only have till the 15th to do something.
[29:20.960 --> 29:26.640]  Okay, well, you have the 15th to start mediation.
[29:26.640 --> 29:33.520]  No one will expect mediation to happen within two weeks, or in a week.
[29:33.520 --> 29:34.880]  Yeah.
[29:34.880 --> 29:42.640]  So what you would do is notify them that you are entering mediation and ask for a stay
[29:42.640 --> 29:45.600]  until you can complete the mediation.
[29:45.600 --> 29:53.920]  Well, they're having another meeting October the 16th, which is on a Tuesday, the Council
[29:53.920 --> 29:54.920]  meeting.
[29:54.920 --> 29:55.920]  So they had to move the dates.
[29:55.920 --> 29:58.680]  I guess people are going to be on town or something.
[29:58.680 --> 30:05.520]  So they went to mediation and asked for a stay until October the 16th, which is on a
[30:05.520 --> 30:07.520]  Tuesday, the Council meeting.
[30:07.520 --> 30:08.520]  Okay, so the...
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[32:00.200 --> 32:02.960]  Rule of law radio is proud to offer the rule of law traffic seminar.
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[32:06.560 --> 32:10.920]  going to have a free society then we're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
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[33:17.440 --> 33:44.520]  Okay, we are back, we live law radio on this the fifth day of October 2018, we're talking
[33:44.520 --> 33:56.240]  to Tim in Texas and I'm just intrigued with an order from the Court of Appeals to go into
[33:56.240 --> 33:57.240]  mediation.
[33:57.240 --> 34:07.960]  I do this show a lot, I filed myself a number of cases with state courts and we've had a
[34:07.960 --> 34:15.360]  number of appeals filed, never have I seen this before.
[34:15.360 --> 34:22.920]  And I figure everything is your communication, the Court of Appeals didn't do this by happenstance
[34:22.920 --> 34:29.800]  and I would want to see how many times they've ordered mediation because I can't believe
[34:29.800 --> 34:35.920]  because based on my own experience, unless there's some new directives coming down that
[34:35.920 --> 34:44.200]  are forcing maybe some memos, maybe some decisions by the Court of Appeals to suggest that everybody
[34:44.200 --> 34:51.640]  try mediation but if that's the case, it's new because I haven't seen that happening
[34:51.640 --> 34:59.400]  before and I'm hoping, I'm taking it as a very good sign.
[34:59.400 --> 35:02.800]  So mediation, what do you do in mediation?
[35:02.800 --> 35:12.440]  Well, it says that all parties, so all parties and I think it had on there, let me look,
[35:12.440 --> 35:20.040]  make sure that I'm not mistaken here, yeah, honorable Brock Smith, civil district clerk
[35:20.040 --> 35:22.240]  Wise County and the court reporter.
[35:22.240 --> 35:26.760]  Wait a minute, Brock Smith is not a party.
[35:26.760 --> 35:29.760]  It says he's CC'd.
[35:29.760 --> 35:33.200]  He seems to copy this, but he's not a party.
[35:33.200 --> 35:34.800]  He won't be in the mediation.
[35:34.800 --> 35:35.800]  Oh.
[35:35.800 --> 35:41.800]  Yeah, he's the judge in the case.
[35:41.800 --> 35:52.760]  But all the parties, that means this, is Pamela Thompson, yeah, she was one of the administrative
[35:52.760 --> 35:59.040]  boards that they appointed and when she found out what was really going on, she was mortified.
[35:59.040 --> 36:10.240]  So Pamela Thompson is now on their side, on Tim's side and all parties have to be there.
[36:10.240 --> 36:13.160]  So now Taylor Burton has to be there.
[36:13.160 --> 36:15.960]  Well, I'm not sure, I'm not sure how that works.
[36:15.960 --> 36:21.880]  All of these other parties may be able to appear by council and not have to be there.
[36:21.880 --> 36:28.560]  Well, it says in each corporate party, which city council must be represented by an officer
[36:28.560 --> 36:37.360]  with authority to negotiate a settlement.
[36:37.360 --> 36:46.560]  This brings an interesting issue, since you have named members of the law firm.
[36:46.560 --> 36:58.400]  You might consider objecting to the law firm representing themselves in the mediation.
[36:58.400 --> 37:05.560]  So you might object to the law firm representing sitting as mediation and ask the city council
[37:05.560 --> 37:14.280]  to a part, to secure a separate law firm, since the law firm itself has been sued.
[37:14.280 --> 37:18.320]  You sued one member of the law firm, you sued the law firm.
[37:18.320 --> 37:22.440]  So they're a party.
[37:22.440 --> 37:26.640]  So you'll object to them representing the other parties, since they are themselves a
[37:26.640 --> 37:33.160]  party, and cannot be expected to mediate in good faith.
[37:33.160 --> 37:39.400]  That'll be an interesting tag to take.
[37:39.400 --> 37:42.320]  This is turning into a Perry Mason.
[37:42.320 --> 37:44.480]  Wait, say that again?
[37:44.480 --> 37:47.720]  I said this is turning into a Perry Mason.
[37:47.720 --> 37:52.400]  Oh, yeah, this is the way it's supposed to be.
[37:52.400 --> 37:54.640]  It's turning back on them.
[37:54.640 --> 37:59.520]  You know, everything's been in their favor up to this point.
[37:59.520 --> 38:05.960]  Now at shifting gears and changing directions, I seriously doubt that this law firm ever
[38:05.960 --> 38:10.800]  expected to be forced into mediation.
[38:10.800 --> 38:20.480]  And since you named the law firm inappropriate for them to represent themselves, so you object
[38:20.480 --> 38:26.920]  to the law firm representing themselves in the mediation, that should get interesting.
[38:26.920 --> 38:32.080]  Now the city has to go hire a different law firm to mediate.
[38:32.080 --> 38:37.880]  And when the law firm sees what you've been doing to the current law firm, they're not
[38:37.880 --> 38:41.160]  going to want to get in the middle of this mess.
[38:41.160 --> 38:47.280]  So they're more likely to mediate in good faith.
[38:47.280 --> 38:53.240]  And you tell them, you know why the Court of Appeals ordered mediation.
[38:53.240 --> 38:58.480]  You know as well as we do that the Court of Appeals is telling these guys, when you get
[38:58.480 --> 39:02.480]  to us, we're going to clean your clock.
[39:02.480 --> 39:05.000]  So you better make sure this doesn't get to us.
[39:05.000 --> 39:09.520]  Tell them you know that.
[39:09.520 --> 39:12.840]  Make me a deal I can't refuse.
[39:12.840 --> 39:23.040]  Well, the only deal we want is our slate to be clean and walk away and shake hands.
[39:23.040 --> 39:30.960]  Except you don't agree not to do anything.
[39:30.960 --> 39:32.960]  Right.
[39:32.960 --> 39:40.760]  They agree to drop, but you don't agree.
[39:40.760 --> 39:48.400]  You can agree not to sue the city, but not the lawyers on the other side.
[39:48.400 --> 39:53.080]  And the city is not going to care about the lawyers.
[39:53.080 --> 39:58.760]  So the city can agree to a settlement without the consent of the lawyers.
[39:58.760 --> 40:07.920]  Well, I told the two presidents tonight, I told them, I said their reputation is riding
[40:07.920 --> 40:08.920]  here.
[40:08.920 --> 40:11.240]  I said, they're fighting for their lives.
[40:11.240 --> 40:13.680]  I said, but they're using your money.
[40:13.680 --> 40:18.440]  I said, you're not informing you properly.
[40:18.440 --> 40:23.000]  So the things that you saw, you've never seen before tonight, right?
[40:23.000 --> 40:26.160]  They said, no, they haven't.
[40:26.160 --> 40:28.240]  So everything was shielded from you.
[40:28.240 --> 40:38.720]  I said, even Diane hid the application for counsel that one of our friends had put up
[40:38.720 --> 40:44.480]  to be appointed, and she just sent back a message saying they're not going to appoint
[40:44.480 --> 40:51.480]  anyone at this time because she didn't want anybody adverse to her agenda.
[40:51.480 --> 40:56.320]  So Darla, when she got dismissed, Darla called and said, I want to know where my resume is
[40:56.320 --> 41:00.840]  because there's a lot of private information on there, or my application, excuse me, and
[41:00.840 --> 41:04.440]  said, oh, I found it in the back and wanted Diane's files.
[41:04.440 --> 41:06.240]  Oh, how convenient.
[41:06.240 --> 41:14.120]  So now I sent a thing tonight to Eric after I got home and said, we want Darla appointed
[41:14.120 --> 41:15.120]  to the council.
[41:15.120 --> 41:17.120]  It will show good faith.
[41:17.120 --> 41:21.200]  Is there an open space on the council?
[41:21.200 --> 41:22.200]  There's an open space.
[41:22.200 --> 41:28.080]  They don't have to fill it, but they should.
[41:28.080 --> 41:33.440]  Because she applied and her application was secreted.
[41:33.440 --> 41:34.440]  It was hidden.
[41:34.440 --> 41:38.280]  Yes, they have never seen it.
[41:38.280 --> 41:40.600]  That will change the balance on the council.
[41:40.600 --> 41:41.600]  Yes.
[41:41.600 --> 41:49.080]  And the reason why I brought up anything about the election was because I felt like she was
[41:49.080 --> 41:52.160]  trying to influence the vote.
[41:52.160 --> 41:59.240]  You know, there was only a few votes that kept ours from winning.
[41:59.240 --> 42:00.960]  Only a couple of votes.
[42:00.960 --> 42:07.800]  So it just looks, you know, it doesn't look good.
[42:07.800 --> 42:13.440]  And you don't want to make a bunch of empty threats, but you want to at least think about
[42:13.440 --> 42:19.960]  the possibility that she was committing voter fraud, election fraud, somehow.
[42:19.960 --> 42:23.400]  Election fraud, that's what it sounds like.
[42:23.400 --> 42:28.760]  You should talk to Ken about that because Ken's been an election judge a number of times.
[42:28.760 --> 42:34.040]  He will understand the law in this matter a lot better than I do.
[42:34.040 --> 42:35.040]  Okay.
[42:35.040 --> 42:37.760]  I still haven't emailed him.
[42:37.760 --> 42:41.440]  I called you as quick as I could, so I wanted to get on before it got too late so that you
[42:41.440 --> 42:43.440]  could have a chance.
[42:43.440 --> 42:48.960]  And I'll go ahead and email you this so that you can read it.
[42:48.960 --> 42:49.960]  Ken.
[42:49.960 --> 42:51.720]  Okay, well, this is good.
[42:51.720 --> 42:56.320]  This could wind up being one of the biggest wins we've had.
[42:56.320 --> 43:01.320]  And one of the most deserved is this one, this one was a hard fight.
[43:01.320 --> 43:02.320]  Yeah.
[43:02.320 --> 43:08.120]  It's been a real struggle to get to this point, but you held out, and now things are turning
[43:08.120 --> 43:09.120]  in your favor.
[43:09.120 --> 43:17.080]  When we read anything that the attorney's right, anything, it terrifies us because it
[43:17.080 --> 43:24.560]  really makes us look bad, but it doesn't take into consideration our willingness to comply
[43:24.560 --> 43:26.560]  from the get-go.
[43:26.560 --> 43:31.120]  And that's the whole thing that we're pressing, is that we always want to comply with the
[43:31.120 --> 43:32.120]  law.
[43:32.120 --> 43:33.120]  We're not rebels.
[43:33.120 --> 43:37.960]  I even brought up how that I complied with state and federal law over my underground
[43:37.960 --> 43:44.400]  storage tanks at my property and got a clean bill of health with the soil samples and everything.
[43:44.400 --> 43:46.560]  So hopefully they take that into consideration.
[43:46.560 --> 43:49.560]  They had a lot to listen to tonight.
[43:49.560 --> 43:50.560]  Hang on.
[43:50.560 --> 43:52.960]  About to go to break Randy Kelton wheels on radio.
[43:52.960 --> 43:56.720]  I'll call in number 512-646-1984.
[43:56.720 --> 43:58.560]  We'll be right back.
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[44:59.440 --> 45:04.480]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[46:24.240 --> 46:30.240]  Always, I must be careful what I'm wishing for.
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[46:35.240 --> 46:37.240]  Okay, we are back.
[46:37.240 --> 46:40.240]  Randy Kelsen, rule of law radio.
[46:40.240 --> 46:43.240]  We have some, the calling lines are open.
[46:43.240 --> 46:47.240]  Our call in numbers 512-646-1984.
[46:47.240 --> 46:50.240]  If you have a question or comment, give us a call.
[46:50.240 --> 46:54.240]  We're talking to Tim in Texas.
[46:54.240 --> 47:02.240]  Okay, so when you get to mediation, what do you have in mind?
[47:02.240 --> 47:04.240]  Oh, Laura.
[47:04.240 --> 47:10.240]  Well, I'm sure the mediator will probably sit down and explain to us how it works.
[47:10.240 --> 47:17.240]  Supposedly, the other people will be in another room, the other side, and then we will say,
[47:17.240 --> 47:23.240]  well, since we were never guilty of anything, and we tried to comply from the get-go,
[47:23.240 --> 47:30.240]  and that pertinent information to this was hidden from counsel,
[47:30.240 --> 47:36.240]  and the counsel's made directives to the attorneys in the law firm,
[47:36.240 --> 47:47.240]  and tangent upon the information that they received from, or they didn't receive from, a city administrator who had been hiding things from them.
[47:47.240 --> 47:50.240]  We want it dropped.
[47:50.240 --> 47:57.240]  And then I guess they're going to go into the other room and say, well, they want it dropped.
[47:57.240 --> 48:05.240]  Now, it's not going to be the entire law firm, or the entire counsel, I don't believe, will it?
[48:05.240 --> 48:09.240]  I'm not sure who it will be.
[48:09.240 --> 48:19.240]  If you complain, you know, if you object to the law firm being part of the mediation,
[48:19.240 --> 48:26.240]  because they are, well, let me think about that.
[48:26.240 --> 48:36.240]  It would seem like if they're requiring all parties, and the counsel is represented by the law firm,
[48:36.240 --> 48:44.240]  and the law firm is one of the parties, I would object to the law firm representing the other parties.
[48:44.240 --> 48:51.240]  You might request that the counsel be present because they're one of the parties.
[48:51.240 --> 48:54.240]  Well, they said that they would be there.
[48:54.240 --> 48:58.240]  Oh, good. Okay, that'll make this a lot better.
[48:58.240 --> 49:04.240]  Because then the, you know, and you, your negotiation with the mediator is,
[49:04.240 --> 49:08.240]  is you're willing to drop everything against the city.
[49:08.240 --> 49:09.240]  Yes.
[49:09.240 --> 49:13.240]  But you're not willing to drop anything against these shots to lawyers.
[49:13.240 --> 49:14.240]  Yes.
[49:14.240 --> 49:17.240]  Absolutely nothing.
[49:17.240 --> 49:30.240]  That you are certain that when this gets to the court of appeals, that the dismissal with prejudice will be overturned absolutely.
[49:30.240 --> 49:36.240]  Because your claims were vindicated by the court of appeals already.
[49:36.240 --> 49:41.240]  That will reinvigorate your $300,000 claim against the city.
[49:41.240 --> 49:43.240]  Yes, I have a question for you.
[49:43.240 --> 49:51.240]  When this all started our first day in the prosecuting attorney, who is a employee of this law firm,
[49:51.240 --> 49:57.240]  she's one of the lower level ones, so she handles the small town prosecution,
[49:57.240 --> 50:04.240]  took us to the back room by her saying, which we have on recording, that this is,
[50:04.240 --> 50:08.240]  I think she said this, this is basically a civil suit.
[50:08.240 --> 50:11.240]  Is she wrong in stating that?
[50:11.240 --> 50:14.240]  She is absolutely wrong.
[50:14.240 --> 50:18.240]  You did not come there because you wanted to.
[50:18.240 --> 50:26.240]  You came there because you were ordered to by a judge in a criminal case.
[50:26.240 --> 50:27.240]  Yeah.
[50:27.240 --> 50:31.240]  You charged criminally, you were not charged civilly.
[50:31.240 --> 50:33.240]  I know.
[50:33.240 --> 50:35.240]  She lied to you.
[50:35.240 --> 50:36.240]  Well, I know that.
[50:36.240 --> 50:40.240]  So that, that right there ought to get their attention, wouldn't you think?
[50:40.240 --> 50:44.240]  Well, the mediator is not going to care about all of that.
[50:44.240 --> 50:50.240]  What the mediator is going to care about is the position of the parties.
[50:50.240 --> 50:55.240]  You have a $300,000 claim against the lawyers.
[50:55.240 --> 50:56.240]  Yes.
[50:56.240 --> 51:00.240]  And the members of the administrative board.
[51:00.240 --> 51:06.240]  You're willing to drop the administrative board members except Taylor Burton.
[51:06.240 --> 51:07.240]  Okay.
[51:07.240 --> 51:13.240]  Because he's shown that he does not have a affirmative defense.
[51:13.240 --> 51:18.240]  And this is a good place to bring up affirmative defense.
[51:18.240 --> 51:21.240]  Then everybody else has an affirmative defense.
[51:21.240 --> 51:29.240]  But Taylor Burton doesn't because he did not act in compliance with the suggestion of counsel.
[51:29.240 --> 51:39.240]  Had he done everything that counsel directed to him to, he could claim good faith reliance on competent authority.
[51:39.240 --> 51:44.240]  But competent authority gave him advice that he did not take.
[51:44.240 --> 51:48.240]  Explain that, clarify in his case.
[51:48.240 --> 52:00.240]  The board was appointed and they were acting in the good faith belief that they had authority to make these adjudications.
[52:00.240 --> 52:01.240]  Right.
[52:01.240 --> 52:06.240]  The lawyer directed them that they could make these adjudications.
[52:06.240 --> 52:15.240]  And then when they made these adjudications, they, Taylor Burton pushed for a higher amount.
[52:15.240 --> 52:22.240]  They pushed for the $1,000 each, which raised it from maximum amount of $1,600.
[52:22.240 --> 52:25.240]  They charged you $8,000.
[52:25.240 --> 52:26.240]  Yeah.
[52:26.240 --> 52:32.240]  And the lawyer told Taylor Burton that that was too much, that they should consider less.
[52:32.240 --> 52:35.240]  The lawyer didn't tell them that.
[52:35.240 --> 52:37.240]  Pamela Thompson told them that.
[52:37.240 --> 52:41.240]  One of the board members.
[52:41.240 --> 52:44.240]  Oh, I thought you said the lawyer told them that.
[52:44.240 --> 52:46.240]  Nope.
[52:46.240 --> 52:47.240]  Nope.
[52:47.240 --> 52:48.240]  Oh.
[52:48.240 --> 52:50.240]  Then he has good faith reliance.
[52:50.240 --> 52:51.240]  Yeah.
[52:51.240 --> 52:54.240]  So Taylor Burton's off the hook too.
[52:54.240 --> 53:02.240]  Well, the thing about it was that Pamela Thompson told the other two that that was too much, she couldn't afford to do it.
[53:02.240 --> 53:08.240]  But they both pressed and said, Taylor Burton said, no, we need to make an example out of him.
[53:08.240 --> 53:21.240]  Okay, well, he's still, if he's acting in good faith reliance on the pronouncements of the lawyer, he has a good faith reliance argument.
[53:21.240 --> 53:26.240]  So much as you might want to beat up Taylor Burton.
[53:26.240 --> 53:28.240]  No, that's okay.
[53:28.240 --> 53:36.240]  The whole thing is, you know, also he had a actual junked vehicle beside his house for nine months.
[53:36.240 --> 53:37.240]  We have proof.
[53:37.240 --> 53:38.240]  Irrelevant.
[53:38.240 --> 53:40.240]  That wouldn't bring that up.
[53:40.240 --> 53:41.240]  Not here.
[53:41.240 --> 53:43.240]  Maybe somewhere else, but not here.
[53:43.240 --> 53:55.240]  Right now, what you want to, what we want to do is get the city to throw the lawyers onto the bus.
[53:55.240 --> 54:01.240]  So if the city is going to be there, you can tell the negotiator that you're willing to drop everything to the city.
[54:01.240 --> 54:15.240]  You're willing to drop everything against Taylor Burton and all three of these members of the administrative board, because you understand that they were acting in good faith reliance on compliments to the lawyer.
[54:15.240 --> 54:17.240]  They were lied to by the lawyer.
[54:17.240 --> 54:22.240]  So you have no reason to believe they acted in bad faith.
[54:22.240 --> 54:23.240]  Well, let me ask you this.
[54:23.240 --> 54:27.240]  These two guys tonight, they talk about them being the only ones sympathetic.
[54:27.240 --> 54:29.240]  Okay.
[54:29.240 --> 54:34.240]  But they also said, you know, basically saying 21 years of me disobeying the law.
[54:34.240 --> 54:36.240]  Okay.
[54:36.240 --> 54:43.240]  So that should be right there that they have no intention of letting me walk away scot-free.
[54:43.240 --> 54:45.240]  You don't care what they do.
[54:45.240 --> 54:46.240]  Okay.
[54:46.240 --> 54:49.240]  You're there to give them an option.
[54:49.240 --> 54:51.240]  Do you let them know, guys?
[54:51.240 --> 54:53.240]  They're only doing it to make themselves look good.
[54:53.240 --> 54:54.240]  That's all.
[54:54.240 --> 54:58.240]  This has already been ruled in our favor.
[54:58.240 --> 55:08.240]  The, our original $300,000 claim was based on an allegation of baritry by the lawyers.
[55:08.240 --> 55:09.240]  Yes.
[55:09.240 --> 55:22.240]  And the court of appeals rulings absolutely established as a matter of law that the original case against you was illegal.
[55:22.240 --> 55:29.240]  It was void, and it was an act of baritry by the lawyers just like you claimed.
[55:29.240 --> 55:31.240]  Well, they didn't say baritry.
[55:31.240 --> 55:33.240]  The appeals court did not say baritry.
[55:33.240 --> 55:47.240]  The appeals court said that the adjudication was, fraud was void because the city did not have authority to make the adjudication.
[55:47.240 --> 55:54.240]  Yeah, because they had never, they had failed to vote it into their ordinance.
[55:54.240 --> 55:55.240]  Okay.
[55:55.240 --> 56:03.240]  You have to construe that the lawyers knew for certain they did not have authority.
[56:03.240 --> 56:06.240]  Whether they knew it or not is irrelevant.
[56:06.240 --> 56:07.240]  Okay.
[56:07.240 --> 56:08.240]  So you bring that forth as an accusation.
[56:08.240 --> 56:09.240]  I gotcha.
[56:09.240 --> 56:10.240]  Yeah.
[56:10.240 --> 56:21.240]  Well, there are learned counsel, if they did not have actual knowledge, they had imputed knowledge because they were there in a special capacity as a learned counsel.
[56:21.240 --> 56:27.240]  They can't come in and say, oh, well, we were stupid and didn't know what the heck we were doing.
[56:27.240 --> 56:28.240]  Well, let me ask you a question.
[56:28.240 --> 56:38.240]  If they thought that it was all going to be over with this administrative hearing, whether it was legal or not, they had no way that I, to know that I wasn't going to pay it.
[56:38.240 --> 56:40.240]  They were going to file civil suit.
[56:40.240 --> 56:42.240]  So how can you get baritry out of it?
[56:42.240 --> 56:53.240]  Oh, it is baritry because the lawyers advised their clients to take an action.
[56:53.240 --> 57:01.240]  The action the lawyers advised their clients to take was illegal.
[57:01.240 --> 57:04.240]  Court of Appeals has already ruled that it was illegal.
[57:04.240 --> 57:06.240]  I agree with you.
[57:06.240 --> 57:19.240]  The lawyer came to court based on his advice to their advice to their counsel and represented their counsel in a hearing that was illegal.
[57:19.240 --> 57:26.240]  And they charged the city for their services at that illegal hearing.
[57:26.240 --> 57:28.240]  That is baritry.
[57:28.240 --> 57:30.240]  Right.
[57:30.240 --> 57:36.240]  They created a false adjudication and got paid to represent that adjudication.
[57:36.240 --> 57:47.240]  In this mediation, we need to ask that the attorneys cancel all charges for misinforming the city.
[57:47.240 --> 57:48.240]  You don't need to.
[57:48.240 --> 57:52.240]  That's all tossed.
[57:52.240 --> 57:53.240]  No.
[57:53.240 --> 57:59.240]  That's been thrown out by the Court of Appeals.
[57:59.240 --> 58:04.240]  The only thing left is the $80,000 claim.
[58:04.240 --> 58:11.240]  And you tell them the Court of Appeals gave the judge an opportunity to fix the error.
[58:11.240 --> 58:13.240]  We told the people tonight.
[58:13.240 --> 58:15.240]  And he didn't do it.
[58:15.240 --> 58:19.240]  They're going to fix it, guys.
[58:19.240 --> 58:21.240]  They're going to throw all of this out.
[58:21.240 --> 58:26.240]  The only thing left is our $300,000 claim.
[58:26.240 --> 58:28.240]  Who wants to pay the claim?
[58:28.240 --> 58:30.240]  Does the city want to pay the claim?
[58:30.240 --> 58:33.240]  Or do you want the lawyers to pay the claim?
[58:33.240 --> 58:36.240]  That's what you get to decide here.
[58:36.240 --> 58:40.240]  That's the pedagation.
[58:40.240 --> 58:41.240]  Hang on.
[58:41.240 --> 58:43.240]  About to go to break.
[58:43.240 --> 58:45.240]  Randy Kelton with Law Radio.
[58:45.240 --> 58:48.240]  Call in number 512-646-1984.
[58:48.240 --> 58:50.240]  We'll be right back.
[58:50.240 --> 59:01.240]  If you'd like to make more definite progress in your walk with God, Bibles for America is offering a free study Bible and a set of free Christian books that can really help.
[59:01.240 --> 59:06.240]  The New Testament recovery version is one of the most comprehensive study Bibles available today.
[59:06.240 --> 59:13.240]  It's an accurate translation and it contains thousands of footnotes that will help you to know God and to know the meaning of life.
[59:13.240 --> 59:18.240]  The free books are a three-volume set called Basic Elements of the Christian Life.
[59:18.240 --> 59:27.240]  Chapter by chapter Basic Elements of the Christian Life clearly presents God's plan of salvation, growing in Christ and how to build up the church.
[59:27.240 --> 59:40.240]  To order your free New Testament recovery version and Basic Elements of the Christian Life, call Bibles for America toll free at 888-551-0102.
[59:40.240 --> 59:49.240]  That's 888-551-0102 or visit us online at bfa.org.
[59:49.240 --> 59:59.240]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[59:59.240 --> 01:00:22.240]  The following newsflash is brought to you by The Low Star Lowdown, providing the daily bulletins for the Commodities Market, Today in History, News Updates, and the Inside Scoop into the Tides of the Alternative.
[01:00:22.240 --> 01:00:29.240]  Markets for the 11th of April, 2018, closed with gold $1,353.22 an ounce.
[01:00:29.240 --> 01:00:31.240]  Silver $16.68 an ounce.
[01:00:31.240 --> 01:00:34.240]  Texas Crude $65.51 a barrel.
[01:00:34.240 --> 01:00:37.240]  Bitcoins at $6,902.19.
[01:00:37.240 --> 01:00:40.240]  Ethereum at $420.80.
[01:00:40.240 --> 01:00:43.240]  Bitcoin Cash at $652.90.
[01:00:43.240 --> 01:00:55.240]  And finally, Litecoins at $114.34 a crypto coin.
[01:00:55.240 --> 01:01:08.240]  Today in History, the year 1968, President Lyndon M. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1968, which prohibited private businesses from discriminating based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
[01:01:08.240 --> 01:01:18.240]  It also prohibited unequal application of voter registration requirements, racial segregation in public schools, in employment, and public accommodations for places of business.
[01:01:18.240 --> 01:01:23.240]  Today in History.
[01:01:23.240 --> 01:01:39.240]  In recent news, tensions in Syria seem to reach new levels after a chemical attack on civilians in the city of Douma, which left 40 dead and many injured, an attack which is being blamed on the democratically elected President of Syria, Bashar al-Assad, by the United States, and on Israel by Russia.
[01:01:39.240 --> 01:01:43.240]  Either accusatory narrative without any verified evidence as of yet.
[01:01:43.240 --> 01:01:53.240]  President Trump tweeted today, Wednesday, that if, quote, Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria, get ready, Russia, because they will be coming in nice and new and smart.
[01:01:53.240 --> 01:01:59.240]  Going on to warn Russia that you shouldn't be partners with a gas-killing animal who kills his people and enjoys it.
[01:01:59.240 --> 01:02:07.240]  Many in the West, including President Trump, have been quick to conclude that this chemical attack must have been conducted by Assad and his forces.
[01:02:07.240 --> 01:02:15.240]  On the other hand, have given approval since yesterday for the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons to investigate the site of the chemical slaughter.
[01:02:15.240 --> 01:02:32.240]  Assad has been successful in maintaining rule and support during Syria's seven-year civil war, a civil war that is being fought by the government of Syria and anti-Assad Syrian rebels that are openly being funded by Western governments, with ISIS being one of the more notorious splinter groups of the American-backed Syrian rebels.
[01:02:32.240 --> 01:02:44.240]  No surprise then why Russian Foreign Minister Spokeswoman Maria Zakoba posted on Facebook that smart missiles should be fired at terrorists and not at a legitimate government, which has been fighting terrorists.
[01:02:44.240 --> 01:02:51.240]  Or is this a trick to destroy all traces with a smart missile strike, and then there will be no evidence for international inspectors to look at?
[01:02:51.240 --> 01:03:03.240]  This was Frick Rody with your lowdown for April 11, 2018.
[01:03:21.240 --> 01:03:46.240]  Okay, we are back.
[01:03:46.240 --> 01:03:56.240]  Randy Kelton with Law Radio. We're talking to Shane in New York and Shane. You might have really stepped into a good one.
[01:03:56.240 --> 01:04:01.240]  Well, if this guy pulls something that blatant.
[01:04:01.240 --> 01:04:17.240]  The amazing thing is, I told my mom, because I've been through the rodeo many times, Randy, I know how these guys play. I know how they play. And I just told her, just wait. Meanwhile, my dad was with us.
[01:04:17.240 --> 01:04:26.240]  She goes, no, no, I gotta go golfing. He says, so everything's okay. We can go. We can get out of here. All he was thinking about golf balls. I can see the golf balls floating over his head, you know.
[01:04:26.240 --> 01:04:40.240]  And so he was out. So he was waiting in the car for us and he was calling us and calling us. I said, don't you dare answer your phone. You're staying right here in court until he calls our name, because I guarantee he's going to pull some kind of stuff in the shady.
[01:04:40.240 --> 01:04:49.240]  And he did. He did. And we were only with him for five minutes, Randy. His name is Albert, probably in his mid-70s.
[01:04:49.240 --> 01:04:57.240]  And we had some simple questions like, you know, is our adversary complaint still due on November 16th? Is it going to push it up because the extension was granted?
[01:04:57.240 --> 01:05:06.240]  You know, a simple question like that. He goes, I can't give you a legal advice. And he had his assistant, Janet, man, oh man, these people are evil, Randy. Evil people.
[01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:10.240]  Go after him. You have a shot at this guy. Big time.
[01:05:10.240 --> 01:05:19.240]  He goes, we just asked him simple questions. You know, is the schedule in order going to be the same because the extension was granted for 45 days?
[01:05:19.240 --> 01:05:27.240]  And he goes, I can't give you a legal advice. And right off the bat, he was a not a friendly person at all. Will your typical scrooge from Christmas?
[01:05:27.240 --> 01:05:35.240]  Okay, just a nasty thought. And in my poor mom, I feel so bad for her because she's getting close to 70 years old now.
[01:05:35.240 --> 01:05:39.240]  And, you know, she worked her whole life and now she's being treated like this.
[01:05:39.240 --> 01:05:45.240]  Good. Now you have a shot at him. Do your research.
[01:05:45.240 --> 01:05:54.240]  She's done that to you this blatant. He's absolutely guaranteed he's done it to other people. And why would he do a thing like that?
[01:05:54.240 --> 01:06:00.240]  Why would he take that risk? It's always about the money.
[01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:14.240]  It started in his background. Go check the public record and see if you can find out where he lives, where he has lived, find out where he went to school,
[01:06:14.240 --> 01:06:24.240]  find neighborhoods that he would have had connection to, and then check those counties for his name on properties.
[01:06:24.240 --> 01:06:31.240]  And when you find those properties, see how many deeds of trust are on those properties and how quickly they were paid off.
[01:06:31.240 --> 01:06:36.240]  That's a favorite way of laundering payoff money.
[01:06:36.240 --> 01:06:46.240]  Wow. Okay, so just to just go over this real quick, contact the FBI, file complaint with the FBI.
[01:06:46.240 --> 01:06:52.240]  And what we're looking for is the special agent in charge of our area.
[01:06:52.240 --> 01:06:57.240]  Yes. Is that correct? Yes. Before you do that, do your homework.
[01:06:57.240 --> 01:07:01.240]  Okay. Find out the spot as what you're saying.
[01:07:01.240 --> 01:07:06.240]  You can file a motion to disqualify the trustee.
[01:07:06.240 --> 01:07:13.240]  Right. I was going to ask that. That should slow things down and give you time to do your homework.
[01:07:13.240 --> 01:07:18.240]  I ordered the transcripts. We won't have them for another week or two, but our next hearing is until November 6th.
[01:07:18.240 --> 01:07:23.240]  So as long as we get that motion filed before the next hearing. You got enough time.
[01:07:23.240 --> 01:07:29.240]  Yeah. Do your homework. You may have this guy. You may have the whole thing.
[01:07:29.240 --> 01:07:45.240]  You can go back after him, and if you can show a pattern of this kind of behavior, then you can allege that he's acting in concert inclusion with the banks.
[01:07:45.240 --> 01:07:50.240]  I think so. Yeah. Conspiracy can be implied.
[01:07:50.240 --> 01:07:57.240]  And then you can move to investigate his finances.
[01:07:57.240 --> 01:08:03.240]  You know what? Find some evidence for the special agent in charge that he might pick it up.
[01:08:03.240 --> 01:08:10.240]  It's amazing you just said that because I was suing the referee regarding the second lean holder.
[01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:16.240]  And we had a hearing or a trial at the Nova hearing just recently, maybe like what, three weeks ago?
[01:08:16.240 --> 01:08:21.240]  And I was suing the referee and he brought up that he has been talking to the trustee.
[01:08:21.240 --> 01:08:25.240]  And the small claims matter. I was suing him and the small claims matter.
[01:08:25.240 --> 01:08:29.240]  They said, I talked to the trustee and there's a bankruptcy case.
[01:08:29.240 --> 01:08:32.240]  So this case has to be dismissed because it's already in bankruptcy.
[01:08:32.240 --> 01:08:41.240]  He filed that case way back in, but maybe like April 2018 against the referee because he filed a fraudulent, you know, referee report.
[01:08:41.240 --> 01:08:45.240]  We have referee reports here in New York, Randy.
[01:08:45.240 --> 01:08:47.240]  And I was suing him because...
[01:08:47.240 --> 01:08:50.240]  You may be able to show a pattern.
[01:08:50.240 --> 01:08:57.240]  Well, yeah, that's what I was saying. The referee should have never said that, but he went ahead and said, I already communicated with the trustee on this case.
[01:08:57.240 --> 01:09:04.240]  And, you know, he needs permission from the trustee to move forward. I said, no, I'm not even a party of the bankruptcy.
[01:09:04.240 --> 01:09:09.240]  I'm the quick claim. I own the property and you guys haven't served me yet and you didn't even put me in the referee report.
[01:09:09.240 --> 01:09:13.240]  You guys are ignoring me and I'm the true owner of the property.
[01:09:13.240 --> 01:09:22.240]  And the judge says, well, you're not the true owner of the property because this case was filed before you became the owner of the property.
[01:09:22.240 --> 01:09:28.240]  And then another judge... You filed a petition for intervention.
[01:09:28.240 --> 01:09:35.240]  Okay. Do that and then you become a party.
[01:09:35.240 --> 01:09:42.240]  Intervention, I filed a motion for joiner and that was denied.
[01:09:42.240 --> 01:09:47.240]  Okay, that's the interlocutory appeal.
[01:09:47.240 --> 01:09:52.240]  Yeah, well, we're in bankruptcy. Okay, no, joiner is not correct. You need to file a petition for intervention.
[01:09:52.240 --> 01:10:04.240]  Did you claim that you... Okay, you joined or was that a claim that you were an interested party?
[01:10:04.240 --> 01:10:06.240]  Yes, because I had the quick claim.
[01:10:06.240 --> 01:10:12.240]  Okay, then it doesn't matter what you call it. It was a petition for intervention. That should get an interlocutory appeal.
[01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:17.240]  All right. They do have those forms in New York, by the way.
[01:10:17.240 --> 01:10:23.240]  Yeah, so filing an interlocutory... How long ago was that?
[01:10:23.240 --> 01:10:35.240]  It was filed in July 2018. It was denied on the 20th. The judge still has not signed the order, by the way.
[01:10:35.240 --> 01:10:43.240]  Okay, then a petition for a writ of mandamus asking the court to order the judge to sign the order.
[01:10:43.240 --> 01:10:49.240]  Are they required to give findings, effect, and conclusions at law?
[01:10:49.240 --> 01:10:51.240]  They're supposed to, Randy.
[01:10:51.240 --> 01:10:57.240]  Good, then request... They ask the court to issue an...
[01:10:57.240 --> 01:11:04.240]  A mandamus ordering the court to issue an order so that you can request findings, effect.
[01:11:04.240 --> 01:11:12.240]  Now, since it's in bankruptcy court, the state court can't really move on. It's locked down...
[01:11:12.240 --> 01:11:15.240]  This is administrative.
[01:11:15.240 --> 01:11:16.240]  Okay.
[01:11:16.240 --> 01:11:19.240]  They can't do anything substantive.
[01:11:19.240 --> 01:11:23.240]  So I can still call something in the state court as it's pending in...
[01:11:23.240 --> 01:11:30.240]  All right, this is a ruling the judge has already supposedly made, but he just hasn't signed the order.
[01:11:30.240 --> 01:11:43.240]  And that's just an administrative step. She can ask the court of appeals to order him to sign the order so that you can...
[01:11:43.240 --> 01:11:50.240]  Well, if everything's stopped, then it doesn't matter until it starts again, but you may run out of time.
[01:11:50.240 --> 01:12:04.240]  If you file for it, I'd have to look at New York law. The bankruptcy, it should stop the clock on everything.
[01:12:04.240 --> 01:12:09.240]  It does. In fact, we just got a letter from her. I'm looking at it right now.
[01:12:09.240 --> 01:12:21.240]  We just got a letter from her this week, and it says, Dear Mr. Case, which is the attorney for Key Bank and Mrs. Buzyk,
[01:12:21.240 --> 01:12:33.240]  please be advised that the automatic stay imposed pursuant to 11 USC section 362A with respect to debtor-dependent blank Chapter 13,
[01:12:33.240 --> 01:12:42.240]  Chapter 13 bankruptcy, filed in the court is without authority to issue any order regarding the above noted foreclosure.
[01:12:42.240 --> 01:12:49.240]  Okay, good. So your debt stopped until you... As soon as the bankruptcy is over, then you go back and request an order.
[01:12:49.240 --> 01:12:54.240]  They may issue one then. Then you can ask for findings of fact.
[01:12:54.240 --> 01:13:03.240]  Well, they denied the motion for jointer because they said it had no merit and it was not done timely.
[01:13:03.240 --> 01:13:10.240]  And if you wanted to be joined to the case, it should have been done before the foreclosure case started. That's what their excuses were.
[01:13:10.240 --> 01:13:15.240]  Before the foreclosure case started?
[01:13:15.240 --> 01:13:19.240]  Did you have a quick claim before the foreclosure case started?
[01:13:19.240 --> 01:13:21.240]  No.
[01:13:21.240 --> 01:13:33.240]  No, I didn't have a phone nonsense. You became a party, so that should get an interlocutory after you've got findings of fact.
[01:13:33.240 --> 01:13:41.240]  Okay. Yeah, they're denialist based that it was not done timely.
[01:13:41.240 --> 01:13:44.240]  And, Randy, can I just tell you something else, too?
[01:13:44.240 --> 01:13:45.240]  Yeah.
[01:13:45.240 --> 01:13:53.240]  My mom was so stressed out, she said, I can't deal with this. She just signed the whole property over to me and was thinking that I could take over the whole case
[01:13:53.240 --> 01:13:58.240]  and I would be doing it all, you know, going in accord and doing what I got to do.
[01:13:58.240 --> 01:13:59.240]  Yeah.
[01:13:59.240 --> 01:14:02.240]  That's the reason why we did it. That's the reason why we did it.
[01:14:02.240 --> 01:14:11.240]  And I still had to bring her to court with me and they still made her the real party of interest, although she doesn't own the property anymore.
[01:14:11.240 --> 01:14:14.240]  Okay, that should get an interlocutory.
[01:14:14.240 --> 01:14:16.240]  Okay.
[01:14:16.240 --> 01:14:20.240]  Thank you very much, Randy.
[01:14:20.240 --> 01:14:25.240]  One more thing I wanted to tell you really quick before you get to your next caller.
[01:14:25.240 --> 01:14:33.240]  Why did the first lean holder wait so long to file their claim? They waited until the very last second, the very last day.
[01:14:33.240 --> 01:14:35.240]  Is that music in the background?
[01:14:35.240 --> 01:14:40.240]  Yeah, they just probably had a big stack of stuff. No, we've got two minutes left.
[01:14:40.240 --> 01:14:46.240]  They just probably were busy and got to it when they had to get to it.
[01:14:46.240 --> 01:14:50.240]  They ran out of time and put something together and filed it in.
[01:14:50.240 --> 01:15:00.240]  But I even talked to the Federal National Mortgage Association and they clearly stated that they're not the record beneficiary of this mortgage.
[01:15:00.240 --> 01:15:15.240]  Why they're using their name for being the real party of interest in this mortgage action is beyond them and they sent it over to phone to us because they switched the captions from HSBC to the Federal National Mortgage Association.
[01:15:15.240 --> 01:15:17.240]  Okay, that's too complex.
[01:15:17.240 --> 01:15:20.240]  They'd have to see what's been filed in the record.
[01:15:20.240 --> 01:15:25.240]  Who holds what when and where. I don't know who's on first.
[01:15:25.240 --> 01:15:30.240]  Exactly. Yeah, well, there is nobody on first. That's what I was trying to get at.
[01:15:30.240 --> 01:15:40.240]  They have no interest in the property. HSBC, they're going to leave party for the action and they changed the caption after somebody judged me. It was granted.
[01:15:40.240 --> 01:15:51.240]  Okay, that's too complex. That's in the middle of a lot of facts. I can't comment on that because you jumped right in the middle of something. I need a whole lot of facts in order to address that.
[01:15:51.240 --> 01:15:55.240]  This is plenty for now. Thanks a lot, Randy. It was nice talking to you again.
[01:15:55.240 --> 01:15:58.240]  Okay. Thank you.
[01:15:58.240 --> 01:16:07.240]  Okay, take care. Okay, now we're going to go to Canada, New York. Hello, Ken.
[01:16:07.240 --> 01:16:09.240]  Hi, Randy. How are you doing?
[01:16:09.240 --> 01:16:12.240]  I'm doing good. What do you have for us today?
[01:16:12.240 --> 01:16:30.240]  I know I shouldn't have even asked. I heard Shane mentioned something that I know a little about, failure to prosecute New York as well.
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[01:20:30.240 --> 01:20:42.240]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Ruvela Radio and I have a long trouble with my faders.
[01:20:42.240 --> 01:20:47.240]  Okay, Randy Kelton, Ruvela Radio and Ken, if you don't mind,
[01:20:47.240 --> 01:21:02.240]  Debra's got something she wants to address on the air with someone on a copyright issue and he's been holding for this for quite a while, so she sent an appointment with him and missed the appointment, so I'd like to take him first.
[01:21:02.240 --> 01:21:06.240]  It won't take long. Will you hang on?
[01:21:06.240 --> 01:21:10.240]  Okay, yeah, I don't have a problem.
[01:21:10.240 --> 01:21:13.240]  Okay, thank you, Ken.
[01:21:13.240 --> 01:21:21.240]  I told her you were from New York and you know how people are, you know, from New York, are there really nice and gracious and all that kind of stuff.
[01:21:21.240 --> 01:21:27.240]  Am I laying it on too thick?
[01:21:27.240 --> 01:21:31.240]  I'm from Long Island.
[01:21:31.240 --> 01:21:34.240]  Okay, thank you.
[01:21:34.240 --> 01:21:36.240]  Okay, I'll get back to you shortly.
[01:21:36.240 --> 01:21:41.240]  Okay, this is an issue that Debra's been working on.
[01:21:41.240 --> 01:21:50.240]  Matthew came to me first, but I didn't know anything about copyright, so I sent him to Deb, and Deb is more knowledgeable in this area. Deb, are you there?
[01:21:50.240 --> 01:21:54.240]  Yes, I am, and thank you for holding, Ken.
[01:21:54.240 --> 01:22:08.240]  Actually, I've been emailing with Matt here, or Matthew, back and forth several times this week, and so anyways, I made an appointment with him to take his call shortly after 10 p.m.
[01:22:08.240 --> 01:22:14.240]  tonight, and I was running late, so anyways, I've put Matt off for an hour here already.
[01:22:14.240 --> 01:22:18.240]  So anyways, thank you for being understanding on this matter, Ken.
[01:22:18.240 --> 01:22:29.240]  All right, right now we have Matthew from a location outside the United States, and he is calling on a copyright issue that he is having.
[01:22:29.240 --> 01:22:40.240]  Yes, I am very familiar with intellectual property law because I am a producer, and I produce this radio stream.
[01:22:40.240 --> 01:22:42.240]  I produce all the radio shows.
[01:22:42.240 --> 01:22:52.240]  I record them, and I also produce music for my own band and other people's bands, so I am very familiar with intellectual property issues.
[01:22:52.240 --> 01:22:59.240]  And I do believe in intellectual property because, you know, this is just a little side note here.
[01:22:59.240 --> 01:23:14.240]  There's a lot of people out there that are under some kind of a false, I would call it, illusion even, that they think that just because a musician or producer, you know, releases their music to the, quote,
[01:23:14.240 --> 01:23:23.240]  public domain, which when people say that they don't even know what that means, that they think that they have no right over it anymore because they've released it into the public domain.
[01:23:23.240 --> 01:23:26.240]  Well, that's not the case.
[01:23:26.240 --> 01:23:40.240]  If I make something, if I build something, whether it's a documentary film or a recorded piece of music or even producing this radio show for that matter, then it's mine.
[01:23:40.240 --> 01:23:41.240]  I built it.
[01:23:41.240 --> 01:23:42.240]  I made it.
[01:23:42.240 --> 01:23:52.240]  I built equipment that was used to produce it, to record it, paying for the internet, you know, the infrastructure.
[01:23:52.240 --> 01:23:53.240]  It's mine.
[01:23:53.240 --> 01:24:02.240]  I built it, just like if you built a house, it's your house, and you have the right to decide who you want to invite to your house, to your property.
[01:24:02.240 --> 01:24:12.240]  You have the right to say, I don't want you taking a picture of my house, or if you take a picture of my house, then you have to pay me for it.
[01:24:12.240 --> 01:24:13.240]  It's your property.
[01:24:13.240 --> 01:24:14.240]  You built it.
[01:24:14.240 --> 01:24:17.240]  You have the right to license the use of it.
[01:24:17.240 --> 01:24:20.240]  In fact, that's what an apartment is.
[01:24:20.240 --> 01:24:22.240]  That's what paying rent is.
[01:24:22.240 --> 01:24:25.240]  A landlord, they are licensing the use of their property.
[01:24:25.240 --> 01:24:34.240]  They have the right to decide who they want to allow to live there, and what the terms are, and can you paint it, and all these kinds of things.
[01:24:34.240 --> 01:24:50.240]  So when it comes to intellectual property, like film, and photographs, and music, and all these kinds of things, you know, the producer, the owner always retains what's called the master,
[01:24:50.240 --> 01:25:02.240]  the original piece of art, or original piece of property that they built, and what's out there, if you even want to call it the public domain, which is another term of art, that's not the master.
[01:25:02.240 --> 01:25:11.240]  You're not just throwing out your original building work into the ether and saying, oh, well, too bad.
[01:25:11.240 --> 01:25:13.240]  I don't have control over it anymore.
[01:25:13.240 --> 01:25:24.240]  No, what you're doing is you're licensing the use of a copy of it, just like if you own a house and you don't want people taking the pictures of the inside of your house or the outside of your house for that matter.
[01:25:24.240 --> 01:25:34.240]  You have the right to say so, and you have the right to say, I want to charge you if you're going to use those pictures or even take them.
[01:25:34.240 --> 01:25:45.240]  All right, it's the same thing. It's a picture of the original work, and whoever built it owns it, whoever records it owns it. That's the deal.
[01:25:45.240 --> 01:25:57.240]  And so the builder, the owner, has the producer, has the right to say, I am going to charge X amount of money for you to enjoy a copy of what I built.
[01:25:57.240 --> 01:26:06.240]  Simple. There's other issues when it comes to songwriting or ideas or patents.
[01:26:06.240 --> 01:26:15.240]  A lot of people have trouble with the patent thing because they don't like the idea of patenting an idea. How can you copyright an idea?
[01:26:15.240 --> 01:26:23.240]  Well, it's a lot more complicated than that, and I'm sure Randy can speak to that if we had more time. He may make a comment.
[01:26:23.240 --> 01:26:34.240]  However, the issue is it's more than an idea. You're building a design. So that is also a building.
[01:26:34.240 --> 01:26:43.240]  Even if the prototype hasn't come into the material realm yet, you still have a building there as far as a design.
[01:26:43.240 --> 01:26:57.240]  So yes, I believe in patents of designs as well. So I just wanted to put out some of those ideas and comments there concerning copyright so that the listeners understand where I'm coming from.
[01:26:57.240 --> 01:27:08.240]  You're not just throwing things out there. And as far as like the recordings of these radio shows, for example, I do have that is my property because I'm the producer.
[01:27:08.240 --> 01:27:19.240]  I built it. I recorded it. I own it. And I'm licensing the use of it to our listeners, but it is under what's called a free license use agreement.
[01:27:19.240 --> 01:27:28.240]  I don't charge for the downloads of the archives. I don't charge for the podcast. Some people charge for their podcasts and have every right to do that.
[01:27:28.240 --> 01:27:39.240]  I do not charge for the archives. You can download them for free under the standard terms of copyright for a free use license agreement.
[01:27:39.240 --> 01:27:51.240]  The only thing I ask is that once you've downloaded the archives that I have produced that you don't go and sell them because I'm not even selling them.
[01:27:51.240 --> 01:28:12.240]  No one's ever done that. Anyway, I just wanted to put out some ideas there about copyright because a lot of people are under a very mistaken delusion that just because a song is floating around on the Internet that that means that the producer and the owner doesn't have any right over it anymore.
[01:28:12.240 --> 01:28:26.240]  And that is preposterous. And I have to say in the Hardcore Libertarian crew that it's a very divided community on this issue as far as who believes in intellectual property and who doesn't.
[01:28:26.240 --> 01:28:32.240]  And I can tell you where the dividing line is from what I've seen in my experience in the Hardcore Libertarian community.
[01:28:32.240 --> 01:28:52.240]  The people that have actually built something and invested money to build something and put in a lot of work and training to learn how to build something like to produce a documentary film or to produce an audio CD or to produce talk radio.
[01:28:52.240 --> 01:29:02.240]  The people that have actually built something, they believe in intellectual property because they know it's their property. They know they built it and they know they have the right to license the use of it.
[01:29:02.240 --> 01:29:15.240]  And the people who have never built anything, they don't believe in it. Okay, so go figure, right? Matt, I know you're still there. I just wanted to make some comments about intellectual property before we go to your issue.
[01:29:15.240 --> 01:29:22.240]  Randy, do you have any comments on patenting a design? Because I do believe in that. I believe that's something that people build as well.
[01:29:22.240 --> 01:29:32.240]  We're about to go to break, so I just wanted to say that Deborah is the producer and all those hosts were her slaves.
[01:29:32.240 --> 01:29:34.240]  Oh, come on.
[01:29:34.240 --> 01:29:51.240]  But yeah, I design stuff. I'm building a project right now that I've spent 12 years building. I would be annoyed if somebody took my project and profited from it and blew me out on it.
[01:29:51.240 --> 01:29:56.240]  Hang on, about to go to break. Randy Kelton, with Deborah Stevens, we'll be right back.
[01:29:56.240 --> 01:30:13.240]  Did you know the sound of your voice could be used like a fingerprint to identify you? It's called a voice print and a growing number of corporations and governments are capturing them.
[01:30:13.240 --> 01:30:27.240]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht and I'll be right back with details.
[01:30:44.240 --> 01:30:53.240]  Your voice is like a fingerprint made of sound with a unique pattern that can be captured, recorded, and used to identify you.
[01:30:53.240 --> 01:31:04.240]  Interpol, the International Police Force, wants voice prints from suspicious persons worldwide. The Pentagon is on board, too, and U.S. and British eavesdropping programs have amassed a mountain of data.
[01:31:04.240 --> 01:31:14.240]  These biometrics would let officials sift through that data to hone in on a particular person's voice like a needle in a haystack. If that makes you nervous, watch out the next time you call a customer service line.
[01:31:14.240 --> 01:31:22.240]  Many corporations have started using voice print technology to authenticate customers and match their voices with their identities in a database.
[01:31:22.240 --> 01:31:30.240]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht. More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
[01:31:30.240 --> 01:31:36.240]  This is Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11.
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[01:33:01.240 --> 01:33:04.240]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network.
[01:33:04.240 --> 01:33:29.240]  LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[01:33:29.240 --> 01:33:30.240]  Hi folks, we are back.
[01:33:30.240 --> 01:33:34.240]  This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens.
[01:33:34.240 --> 01:33:38.240]  Tonight is September 28th, Friday, September 28th.
[01:33:38.240 --> 01:33:51.240]  And Matthew, sorry to keep you holding for another segment, but I just felt I needed to have a little prelude there concerning intellectual property because there's a lot of misconceptions about it, especially in the Liberty community.
[01:33:51.240 --> 01:33:59.240]  So, all right, so Matthew, we've been emailing some this past week and you just sent me another email, so I have more information.
[01:33:59.240 --> 01:34:02.240]  Let's get our listeners up to speed here.
[01:34:02.240 --> 01:34:08.240]  Can you tell us what is going on with your intellectual property copyright issue?
[01:34:08.240 --> 01:34:10.240]  Sure.
[01:34:10.240 --> 01:34:23.240]  A few, maybe about a month or so ago, one of my contractors who regularly writes content for me hosted a blog entry on the company blog.
[01:34:23.240 --> 01:34:33.240]  And in it, he had grabbed an image off of Google Images, which he'd done like several hundred times before for other articles.
[01:34:33.240 --> 01:34:43.240]  And we got a notice from a company claiming to represent the owner of the image.
[01:34:43.240 --> 01:35:04.240]  So, you know, wanting to be responsible and knowing that the Internet's full of scam, we just ask, you know, could you substantiate your relationship to the image owner first so that we know that if we owe someone something, we can pay them and we're paying the right party.
[01:35:04.240 --> 01:35:15.240]  In all of our subsequent correspondence, they've never answered the question of how to substantiate, you know, their relationship to the company.
[01:35:15.240 --> 01:35:25.240]  So, we did some background research and we could find nothing online to indicate that that company represents the party that owns the image.
[01:35:25.240 --> 01:35:38.240]  Now, we've taken the image down, we've taken the whole article down because we do want to respect their copyright, and we've also implemented some internal company policies to prevent this from happening in the future.
[01:35:38.240 --> 01:35:49.240]  But that's basically where we're at. They're asking us to pay like $1,100 for the image, but they're not willing to tell us, give us evidence that they represent the owner.
[01:35:49.240 --> 01:36:14.240]  Okay, so, yes, and that's a really good summary. And so, just to go over a few more details concerning the Google Images thing, and I want to, you know, just clarify this also so that other listeners maybe won't end up in a situation or they may, even if they do due diligence ahead of time.
[01:36:14.240 --> 01:36:31.240]  Please, people, just because you use a search engine, whether it's Google or whatever else, to do an image search and all of these images appear, or if you go to like a clip art page or a website or something like that,
[01:36:31.240 --> 01:36:46.240]  that doesn't mean that you can just start grabbing and, you know, saving, whether it's graphic art or photographs, to use on your own blog or website without getting permission because you could get in trouble.
[01:36:46.240 --> 01:37:05.240]  And typically, say for example, okay, my band, we recorded a CD just a few years back, and it had a certain concept, and we were browsing, you know, looking online to get ideas so that we could either build our own image or take our own pictures
[01:37:05.240 --> 01:37:13.240]  or maybe, you know, contract with somebody to use their stuff. Well, we found a photograph that was just perfect for our concept.
[01:37:13.240 --> 01:37:29.240]  Okay, it was absolutely perfect. The name of the band was Three Shoes Posse, and, you know, our sleet-singer Pat would wear certain kind of boots, and Jerry would wear certain kind of boots, shoes, and I would wear certain kind of shoes, you know, pretty much all the time.
[01:37:29.240 --> 01:37:44.240]  And then we found this picture of these three shoes in the grass, like we frost on them, and it was like, it was two men's shoes in like the big boot size for Pat and a size for Jerry and then a woman's shoe for me.
[01:37:44.240 --> 01:37:54.240]  And I was like, this is just like, divine intervention or something. We have to use this picture. So we contacted the owner, and she made us a very reasonable offer.
[01:37:54.240 --> 01:38:04.240]  And, you know, it all worked out fine. But anyway, so I just wanted to let people know that just because pictures are on the Internet or on a web search engine, that doesn't mean that they're just free to do whatever you want with.
[01:38:04.240 --> 01:38:26.240]  Now, when you do image searches with a search engine, when you click on them, like a little drop-down thing will drop down, and it'll have the Web site URL of where that image came from. And then you can click on that and go to that Web site so that you'll know where it actually came from.
[01:38:26.240 --> 01:38:52.240]  And so, Matthew, we were talking on one of the breaks that you said that after y'all got this letter that you went back and put in the same keywords into the search engine on an image search so that you could chase down, you know, where this image, where y'all actually, where the original Web site was that it actually came from, right?
[01:38:52.240 --> 01:39:07.240]  And so that you could try to put the pieces together, see if you could determine on your own just who the original owner was or is. And you were saying that, can I say the name of who you determined to own the image?
[01:39:07.240 --> 01:39:22.240]  I suppose it's okay to say, but I have confirmed, I sent you an email saying it is, the party they claimed owned it really does seem to own it.
[01:39:22.240 --> 01:39:34.240]  Okay, yes. The party that they claimed owned it really does seem to own it. Okay, so we can just leave it at that. And the party that you told me owns it, I believe probably does own it, okay, without giving any more information away.
[01:39:34.240 --> 01:39:55.240]  I sent you another link and it's clearly the same image and they say they own it. And I have only one clarification on what I see here is that it says that the content is intended for editorial use only for other uses, additional clearance may be required.
[01:39:55.240 --> 01:40:15.240]  Okay, so there you go. The original owner, we've pretty much determined, this is the original owner, they say that it's, they're allowing the public to use this image for editorial purposes, but any further use, in other words, commercial use requires clearance.
[01:40:15.240 --> 01:40:32.240]  This is standard. Okay, this falls under what's called the fair use intellectual property doctrine. Okay, for example, bumper music, okay, all the listeners hear the bumpers that go in and out of the segment, all of that is not mine.
[01:40:32.240 --> 01:40:55.240]  On this show, most of it's mine except for like, you know, the bad boys and then the Peter Tosh song at the end. But for all the other host shows, it's other people's music. Well, I don't have to contact the owner of that and pay them a licensing fee through ASCAP or BMI or something or get a master use license agreement because the use of bumpers is falling under fair use.
[01:40:55.240 --> 01:41:09.240]  We're using it in a sense for editorial, for commentary purposes. And plus, we're not broadcasting music. I'm not a DJ. We don't play the songs in full. The hosts are talking over the music as it fades in and out, that sort of thing.
[01:41:09.240 --> 01:41:23.240]  Okay, so and also like for news organizations, for political commentary, you can pull images and graphics and things like that to use for political commentary purposes, for editorial purposes.
[01:41:23.240 --> 01:41:37.240]  We films do this all the time. They put together compilations of like news reports, like when I worked on a noble lie about the Oklahoma City bombing and there was a compilation of all these different news reports of what was going on at the time.
[01:41:37.240 --> 01:41:45.240]  We didn't have to pay for all of that because that's fair use. We're using it for educational purposes, commentary purposes. So that makes sense.
[01:41:45.240 --> 01:41:55.240]  All right, so we're, we're, we've determined that we know who the owner is and what their terms are. And you, I don't think you have contacted them yet.
[01:41:55.240 --> 01:42:13.240]  Now, as far as the letter is concerned, when I first got the email and, and I saw what this, this company was trying to do to you guys, immediately the first thing I thought was this is scam. This sounds like a scam.
[01:42:13.240 --> 01:42:23.240]  Okay, but I have a comment here. Matthew, those people do not own that there do not represent the company owns that.
[01:42:23.240 --> 01:42:25.240]  Well, wait, wait, wait, Randy.
[01:42:25.240 --> 01:42:27.240]  I do. You got to pay me.
[01:42:27.240 --> 01:42:33.240]  Oh, Randy. Okay. Randy.
[01:42:33.240 --> 01:42:36.240]  I have as much standing as they do.
[01:42:36.240 --> 01:42:48.240]  No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. There are companies, there are companies that like, if it's a major corporation that would, it could employ, you know, enforcement organizations.
[01:42:48.240 --> 01:42:55.240]  Okay, but the point is, I mean, it's feasible that there could be a third party, right? But Matt is correct.
[01:42:55.240 --> 01:42:56.240]  Yeah.
[01:42:56.240 --> 01:43:05.240]  Let's see. Let's see the contract. Let's see some proof here. This is similar to the Mike Mirris method of the debt collections because all these debt collectors, they don't really represent the original creditor, right?
[01:43:05.240 --> 01:43:17.240]  Okay, so that's all a scam too. All right, so you have the right thought. And when I saw this, well, first off, when I first got the email, I didn't even know that this company was claiming to represent the original owner.
[01:43:17.240 --> 01:43:28.240]  That information wasn't in the email I first got. It was just the nature of what they were saying, even though I hadn't seen the email or the letter they sent.
[01:43:28.240 --> 01:43:38.240]  I was just like, this sounds like a scam because they were saying you have so many days to respond and this offer is only open for another 10 days and blah, blah, blah.
[01:43:38.240 --> 01:43:41.240]  I'm like, offer? Like, what are they talking about?
[01:43:41.240 --> 01:44:00.240]  What are they talking about offer? If they own this, it's going to be a certain terms and that's not going to change. They're not going to charge you more if you don't respond. I mean, it sounded like a scam. Okay, we'll be back on the other side.
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[01:46:00.240 --> 01:46:20.240]  Okay, folks, we are back. This is Rule of Law with Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens. We've only got one more segment left, but Matthew, sorry, this isn't going to take much longer.
[01:46:20.240 --> 01:46:34.240]  I kind of had some things I needed to say at the beginning, but anyway, the point being, you send me the letter, you email me a PDF of the letter that this company sent you claiming to represent the owner, all right?
[01:46:34.240 --> 01:46:54.240]  And so I looked at the letter and I was like, hmm, well, it might be real, but my spidey since it's still going off of the scam. So I went to their website. I went to this company's website that sent you the letter and I was like, hmm, well, maybe, I don't know, let's see.
[01:46:54.240 --> 01:47:09.240]  And so then I just, I looked on their website around for a while and they have a list of entities that they claim to represent, okay? And the owner of the image that, in question, is not on that list, all right?
[01:47:09.240 --> 01:47:29.240]  So that's another red flag to me. And so then I proceeded to just do some general internet searching on this company that sent you this letter and boom! I hit half a dozen websites immediately, scam alert, scam alert, scam alert, fraudulent copyright enforcement.
[01:47:29.240 --> 01:47:43.240]  This company is claiming to represent the owners of this, this, this and that and the other and they're sending people extortion letters, which is basically what it boils down to and it's a scam.
[01:47:43.240 --> 01:47:58.240]  It was what I first thought, which is a scam. And from this point forward, I mean, just from the limited research that I've done, I would say 99.99999. This is a scam, all right?
[01:47:58.240 --> 01:48:09.240]  Now concerning, but how to handle it from here, I probably would just blow these people off altogether at this point in time, especially if they haven't sent you a certified letter or anything like that.
[01:48:09.240 --> 01:48:24.240]  You don't want to give them any more information about yourself or your company or contact information or anything. However, concerning, but back to reality now, concerning the image in question that you want to use, okay?
[01:48:24.240 --> 01:48:34.240]  Or any images in the future, you can just contact the copyright owner and ask for permission and they'll either just let you do it as long.
[01:48:34.240 --> 01:48:51.240]  Most of the time, copyright image owners that are like major corporations, they will allow bloggers and people that run websites to use their images free of charge as long as you credit them.
[01:48:51.240 --> 01:49:09.240]  As long as you put on underneath the image by such and such company.com or whatever, as long as you credit them and maybe even give a link to their website, it's like free advertising for them.
[01:49:09.240 --> 01:49:21.240]  Okay, so they'll either charge you a very reasonable fee or they will say, yeah, just do it as long as you ping me. Okay, as long as you put a ping back, a link back on your blog.
[01:49:21.240 --> 01:49:24.240]  So I would recommend that for the future.
[01:49:24.240 --> 01:49:28.240]  I told you I was the guy that represented them. You should listen to me.
[01:49:28.240 --> 01:49:32.240]  Okay, wait, hold on. Matt's trying to say something. Go ahead, Matt.
[01:49:32.240 --> 01:49:41.240]  Yeah, as a company, what we've decided to do since we are developers and content creators ourselves, we're not going to use anyone's copyright anymore.
[01:49:41.240 --> 01:49:44.240]  We're just going to create our own image.
[01:49:44.240 --> 01:49:51.240]  And that's an option. And I've got the means to do it, but you're absolutely correct. That is the proper way to do it.
[01:49:51.240 --> 01:50:02.240]  And it was just a failure on my staff part to follow good protocol. But in fairness to them, they felt that it all fell under fair use.
[01:50:02.240 --> 01:50:03.240]  Yeah.
[01:50:03.240 --> 01:50:05.240]  And they made it without any instances.
[01:50:05.240 --> 01:50:11.240]  Well, of course, of course. And there's so many images floating around when you do searches.
[01:50:11.240 --> 01:50:23.240]  And nobody has any malicious intent or anything like that. And people can think that it's fair use or they just maybe don't believe in copyright at all or whatever the case may be.
[01:50:23.240 --> 01:50:40.240]  But really, most of the images that are floating around are owned by a certain limited number of major corporations because they bought the rights to them from the original photographer or the original graphic designer or something like that.
[01:50:40.240 --> 01:50:48.240]  Or they actually will work with the original owner as far as like to get royalties and things like this.
[01:50:48.240 --> 01:51:02.240]  And basically the bottom line is unless you find some very unique image like what happened with us, with our band, that wasn't owned by a major corporation that owns copyright to millions of images or whatever.
[01:51:02.240 --> 01:51:15.240]  It's like you may have to work with an individual, but for the most part, if you're looking at major copyright image database hold owners, it's like they'll be very reasonable to work with you.
[01:51:15.240 --> 01:51:24.240]  They'll either let you use their stuff totally for free as long as you credit them or they'll charge you very, very minimal fee.
[01:51:24.240 --> 01:51:28.240]  So it's still an option to use other people's stuff.
[01:51:28.240 --> 01:51:36.240]  And I'm telling you right now, this could happen to you and this could happen to anybody even if you do have a contract with the original owner.
[01:51:36.240 --> 01:51:38.240]  This kind of thing can still happen.
[01:51:38.240 --> 01:51:57.240]  And the scam company, I can't believe how many scams are out there that you've got a scam company that's trolling the internet probably with bots and algorithms looking for people's blogs and websites that have reposted copyright images from major corporations.
[01:51:57.240 --> 01:51:59.240]  So they can send them extortion letters?
[01:51:59.240 --> 01:52:02.240]  I mean, what kind of scam are they going to come up with?
[01:52:02.240 --> 01:52:05.240]  That's just crazy.
[01:52:05.240 --> 01:52:07.240]  Anyways.
[01:52:07.240 --> 01:52:19.240]  Deborah, maybe just to tie a bow on all this, maybe what we need to tell people is what should they expect from a legitimate complaint?
[01:52:19.240 --> 01:52:39.240]  What they should expect from a legitimate complaint is to be contacted either on letterheads or from an email that's associated with the email domain of the actual owner or from an attorney that represents the owner.
[01:52:39.240 --> 01:52:47.240]  Probably not a third-party company that's playing the role of a debt collector or something.
[01:52:47.240 --> 01:52:49.240]  Probably not.
[01:52:49.240 --> 01:52:50.240]  Okay.
[01:52:50.240 --> 01:52:52.240]  And that's actually what YouTube does.
[01:52:52.240 --> 01:52:53.240]  All right.
[01:52:53.240 --> 01:52:57.240]  It's like they have their little copyright enforcement algorithms and stuff.
[01:52:57.240 --> 01:53:03.240]  And it's crazy because they don't own it.
[01:53:03.240 --> 01:53:05.240]  They don't own any of this stuff.
[01:53:05.240 --> 01:53:06.240]  It's all civil.
[01:53:06.240 --> 01:53:09.240]  It all would be a dispute between the two parties.
[01:53:09.240 --> 01:53:17.240]  But of course, they're in the wheel of the agenda that's going on, and that's a whole other show.
[01:53:17.240 --> 01:53:34.240]  But yeah, I would say what people could expect is to be contacted directly from the owner, okay, especially if it's like a small, like an individual photographer or if it's from a big corporation that owns a database of images,
[01:53:34.240 --> 01:53:48.240]  to be contacted from an email that's associated with that email domain name and watch for spoof emails, okay, because it'll show something, but it's actually from a different email address.
[01:53:48.240 --> 01:53:50.240]  Watch for spoof emails.
[01:53:50.240 --> 01:54:00.240]  If you do get contacted by what appears to be an email from the actual website or the actual owner, I would not respond to that.
[01:54:00.240 --> 01:54:10.240]  I would not hit reply. I would contact the contact information on that website and say, hey, did you contact me?
[01:54:10.240 --> 01:54:12.240]  Can we work this out?
[01:54:12.240 --> 01:54:13.240]  Do you actually own this?
[01:54:13.240 --> 01:54:14.240]  Something like that.
[01:54:14.240 --> 01:54:19.240]  Or they might get contacted by an attorney, which, you know, possibly.
[01:54:19.240 --> 01:54:22.240]  I would say that's to be expected.
[01:54:22.240 --> 01:54:29.240]  And, you know, just in general respect other people's intellectual property and everything will be fine.
[01:54:29.240 --> 01:54:33.240]  Okay, and if you get an email from Randy's Beer Fondant.
[01:54:33.240 --> 01:54:35.240]  Oh, good lord.
[01:54:35.240 --> 01:54:42.240]  Yeah, but, you know, we wanted to make sure that if we did own someone something.
[01:54:42.240 --> 01:54:47.240]  Of course. No, you're doing your due diligence. You're doing your due diligence.
[01:54:47.240 --> 01:54:51.240]  And yeah, as far as this company, I wouldn't respond to them anymore.
[01:54:51.240 --> 01:54:54.240]  I would not respond to them anymore.
[01:54:54.240 --> 01:55:05.240]  If what seems to be the original owner, what we're fairly certain is the original owner has not contacted you, then I wouldn't concern myself with it.
[01:55:05.240 --> 01:55:12.240]  Well, you know, a serious thing that made it really sound very scammy to us was the retroactive license.
[01:55:12.240 --> 01:55:20.240]  If you went and looked at what would normally pay as a licensing fee, it's like you said, it's probably no more than a couple hundred dollars.
[01:55:20.240 --> 01:55:27.240]  And in many cases, it's just like $20 or $30 because it's not really that significant of a photo.
[01:55:27.240 --> 01:55:36.240]  Well, and the thing is, as far as a retroactive license, the original owner could do something like that.
[01:55:36.240 --> 01:55:42.240]  But what they would be entitled to is very dependent on how much money did you make off their image.
[01:55:42.240 --> 01:55:48.240]  In other words, let's look at the metrics of your website and see how much traffic you have.
[01:55:48.240 --> 01:55:56.240]  If you have ads and banners and clicks and stuff, how much advertising revenue did you make?
[01:55:56.240 --> 01:55:59.240]  How much traffic do you have on your website?
[01:55:59.240 --> 01:56:06.240]  Because people will post images and then they've got all this what I call click bait all over the place.
[01:56:06.240 --> 01:56:12.240]  And it's like you get money from the click bait or from the impressions and whatnot.
[01:56:12.240 --> 01:56:22.240]  And so if you've got a lot of traffic going to your website and you've made advertising money from other people advertising on your website
[01:56:22.240 --> 01:56:33.240]  and then you're using that other person's image, they could be entitled retroactively to some of that advertising revenue that you made while you had that image on your site.
[01:56:33.240 --> 01:56:42.240]  But if you didn't really make any money off of it, or like me, if I made tens of thousands of dollars off of the CD that I sold with the picture
[01:56:42.240 --> 01:56:49.240]  and I never paid this woman, I mean we actually even made an agreement that if we hit the big time or something
[01:56:49.240 --> 01:56:58.240]  and got a distribution deal and sold thousands of copies or something that we were going to give her a percentage.
[01:56:58.240 --> 01:57:04.240]  We weren't just going to pay her a few hundred bucks and then take all this money from the CD.
[01:57:04.240 --> 01:57:12.240]  So anyways, the point is they could be entitled retroactively, but it would depend on what kind of money we're talking about here.
[01:57:12.240 --> 01:57:15.240]  In this case, it wouldn't be anything.
[01:57:15.240 --> 01:57:24.240]  Right, one is something that they couldn't just make a hard number in the middle of an email that they've already decided and then give you a discount.
[01:57:24.240 --> 01:57:29.240]  I don't think so. No, I don't think so. It's ridiculous.
[01:57:29.240 --> 01:57:33.240]  That's what tipped me off to the big red flag is the scammy as well.
[01:57:33.240 --> 01:57:35.240]  Thank you.
[01:57:35.240 --> 01:57:37.240]  Well Matt, thank you so much.
[01:57:37.240 --> 01:57:39.240]  Thank you.
[01:57:39.240 --> 01:57:41.240]  Okay, well we...
[01:57:41.240 --> 01:57:45.240]  I'll join the show, so just keep it up.
[01:57:45.240 --> 01:57:47.240]  Alright, thank you so much.
[01:57:47.240 --> 01:57:50.240]  Alright, we are just about out of time.
[01:57:50.240 --> 01:58:02.240]  Ken, I am so sorry. We spent a long time with Shane and I had Matt on hold for quite some time, but Ken, if you could call back next week, we would really appreciate it.
[01:58:02.240 --> 01:58:04.240]  Is that alright, Ken?
[01:58:04.240 --> 01:58:05.240]  No problem.
[01:58:05.240 --> 01:58:09.240]  Okay, thank you, Ken. You're so understanding. You call in so much. We really appreciate you.
[01:58:09.240 --> 01:58:14.240]  And listeners, please donate to the fundraiser. We still have our fundraiser.
[01:58:14.240 --> 01:58:19.240]  We're a little over halfway there, about halfway there right now. We're coming into the fourth quarter.
[01:58:19.240 --> 01:58:30.240]  We really need some help with the infrastructure and keeping things going around here so that we can continue to deliver, use this incredible information.
[01:58:30.240 --> 01:58:37.240]  So thank you very much listeners. We really appreciate you. God bless and goodnight.
[01:58:37.240 --> 01:58:42.240]  And goodnight from Randy's beer farm.
[01:58:42.240 --> 01:58:50.240]  We'll talk to you all next week.
[01:59:12.240 --> 01:59:30.240]  This translation is highly accurate and it comes with over 13,000 cross references, plus charts and maps and an outline for every book of the Bible.
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