ROL_2014-09-05_16k_Hr1-2.timecode

[00:09.320 --> 00:13.800]  I'm Brian Hagin, with your Liberty Beat for Friday, September 5th, 2014.
[00:13.800 --> 00:22.880]  Gold opened today at $1,265, Silver opened at $19.10, and Bitcoin is trading around $484.38.
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[00:32.560 --> 00:36.760]  Support for the Liberty Beat comes from the Michael Cargill for Austin City Council District
[00:36.760 --> 00:37.760]  1 campaign.
[00:37.760 --> 00:40.400]  Vote Michael Cargill to get the cars moving.
[00:40.400 --> 00:44.160]  Learn more or sign up to volunteer at cargillfortexas.com.
[00:44.160 --> 00:48.080]  This political advertisement paid for by the Michael Cargill for Austin City Council District
[00:48.080 --> 00:49.080]  1 campaign.
[00:49.080 --> 00:53.080]  In the news today, on Thursday, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announced the federal
[00:53.080 --> 00:57.540]  government is launching a second investigation into the Ferguson, Missouri, Police Department.
[00:57.540 --> 01:02.560]  The focus will be on who the officers stop and search, how suspects are treated in jail,
[01:02.560 --> 01:04.420]  and the department's officer training.
[01:04.420 --> 01:08.080]  The investigation will be handled by the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division.
[01:08.080 --> 01:11.840]  The news comes after weeks of protest following the police shooting of 18-year-old Michael
[01:11.840 --> 01:15.000]  Brown.
[01:15.000 --> 01:19.560]  Jacob Lovaro, the 19-year-old man arrested in Williamson County, Texas, for possessing
[01:19.560 --> 01:23.200]  and selling pot brownies, received his trial date this week.
[01:23.200 --> 01:27.280]  Lovaro was originally facing life in prison, but the first-degree felony charges associated
[01:27.280 --> 01:31.920]  with his case were dropped, quite possibly due to the massive outcry from local and national
[01:31.920 --> 01:33.400]  activists and supporters.
[01:33.400 --> 01:37.840]  Justin Armand, executive director of Texans for Accountable Government, is one said supporter.
[01:37.840 --> 01:41.200]  He was present during the court proceedings and told the Liberty Bean that Jacob needs
[01:41.200 --> 01:45.440]  public support as he still faces charges that could carry up to 20 years in prison.
[01:45.440 --> 01:49.320]  Justin called Lovaro a peaceful young man who would be considered an entrepreneur in
[01:49.320 --> 01:50.320]  Colorado.
[01:50.320 --> 01:54.200]  Lovaro's court date has been set for December 1st, with a pretrial date set for November
[01:54.200 --> 01:55.200]  12th at 1.30.
[01:55.200 --> 01:58.720]  At the pretrial hearing, Lovaro's attorney will present a motion to suppress certain
[01:58.720 --> 02:01.520]  evidence on the grounds that police entered his home illegally.
[02:01.520 --> 02:07.160]  The Liberty Bean will keep you up to date as this story unfolds.
[02:07.160 --> 02:11.440]  San Antonio Police Chief William McManus received support from the City Council Public Safety
[02:11.440 --> 02:16.620]  Committee this week when he presented a proposal, first revealed by news radio WOAI, to ticket
[02:16.620 --> 02:19.440]  motorists who give money to street corner panhandlers.
[02:19.440 --> 02:23.480]  McManus told the committee there are alternative ways to give, as money given on the street
[02:23.480 --> 02:26.120]  quote, goes for drugs and goes for alcohol.
[02:26.120 --> 02:30.080]  McManus said he would make a formal presentation on his plan next month.
[02:30.080 --> 02:33.680]  Support for the Liberty Beat comes from My Magic Mud, all natural teeth whitener.
[02:33.680 --> 02:37.400]  Go to MyMagicMud.com to hear a short interview with Dr. Griffin Cole.
[02:37.400 --> 02:39.720]  That's MyMagicMud.com.
[02:39.720 --> 02:42.920]  And the Liberty Beat is brought to you by Brave New Books, your source for all things
[02:42.920 --> 02:43.920]  Bitcoin.
[02:43.920 --> 02:50.800]  Now hosting a Bitcoin ATM in Austin, Texas, 1904 Guadalupe Street, or online, BraveNewBookstore.com.
[02:50.800 --> 02:54.400]  This is the Liberty Beat for Friday, September 5th, 2014.
[02:54.400 --> 02:57.100]  Check out the website at thelibertybeat.com.
[02:57.100 --> 02:58.280]  And like us on Facebook.
[02:58.280 --> 03:28.240]  Facebook.com, the Liberty Beat.
[03:28.280 --> 03:37.600]  Okay, howdy, howdy.
[03:37.600 --> 03:46.960]  This is Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Reel Bar Radio on this Friday, September the 5th,
[03:46.960 --> 03:51.320]  for our four hour info marathon.
[03:51.320 --> 03:55.920]  We're going to have the phones on almost all night.
[03:55.920 --> 04:01.800]  I touched on this subject early in the show yesterday, but I really wanted to go over
[04:01.800 --> 04:10.880]  it in more detail today on the illegal indictment of Governor Perry.
[04:10.880 --> 04:19.280]  Without regard to what you may think of Governor Perry, or think of his behavior as regards
[04:19.280 --> 04:29.080]  to the district attorney, the way I read the code, all of that is irrelevant as concerns
[04:29.080 --> 04:33.800]  the legality of the indictment.
[04:33.800 --> 04:44.360]  The way I read the code, 16.01 Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, 16.01 is the chapter
[04:44.360 --> 04:53.000]  that defines all of the things that are to be done in an examining trial.
[04:53.000 --> 05:03.600]  And I'm going to read a paragraph out of the first statute, 16.01 of chapter 16.
[05:03.600 --> 05:12.000]  When I first read this, I felt like it was put in there as for the purpose of mitigating
[05:12.000 --> 05:20.360]  the Texas constitutional requirement for an indictment for all crimes, if that's what
[05:20.360 --> 05:25.320]  the Constitution says, the Texas Constitution.
[05:25.320 --> 05:31.680]  And somehow they got around that, and this looked like a sentence that was put in there
[05:31.680 --> 05:40.240]  to soften or to imply that the Constitution didn't really mean all crimes, it only meant
[05:40.240 --> 05:42.240]  felonies.
[05:42.240 --> 05:48.560]  But in this case, we get to use it anyway.
[05:48.560 --> 05:53.400]  Here's what it says, 16.01 examining trial, it starts out, when the accused has been brought
[05:53.400 --> 05:57.080]  before a magistrate for an examining trial.
[05:57.080 --> 06:05.880]  Now if you read article 2.10, it says that, shall be the primary duty of a magistrate
[06:05.880 --> 06:09.120]  to keep to peace in the county with all lawful means.
[06:09.120 --> 06:13.840]  He shall cause the arrest of all offenders, blah, blah, blah.
[06:13.840 --> 06:21.080]  2.11 says, when a magistrate sits for the purpose of examining into a criminal accusation,
[06:21.080 --> 06:29.160]  that is an examining court.
[06:29.160 --> 06:34.160]  An examining court is directed by chapter 16, and this is the first one.
[06:34.160 --> 06:39.240]  So when an accused has been brought before a magistrate for an examining trial under
[06:39.240 --> 06:49.800]  chapter 2.11, and as is required by article 14.06, Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, and
[06:49.800 --> 06:56.920]  15.16, Code of Criminal Procedure, 14.06 without a warrant, 15.16 with a warrant.
[06:56.920 --> 07:02.760]  In either case, should it be brought before a magistrate with a warrant, because if there
[07:02.760 --> 07:07.800]  is a warrant, it had to be ex parte, they had an examining trial with you not there.
[07:07.800 --> 07:14.200]  So now they gotta have one with you present, so you can be accorded all of the rights that
[07:14.200 --> 07:18.400]  are listed in this chapter, and if I sound like I'm talking a little loud, it's because
[07:18.400 --> 07:20.440]  I got noise in the background.
[07:20.440 --> 07:24.720]  Okay, an examining trial, when the accused is brought before a magistrate for an examining
[07:24.720 --> 07:29.400]  trial, that office shall proceed to examine into the truth of the accusation made, allow
[07:29.400 --> 07:34.560]  the accused however sufficient time to secure counsel and proper case, the magistrate may
[07:34.560 --> 07:41.360]  appoint counsel to represent the accused in such examining trial only to be compensated
[07:41.360 --> 07:43.360]  as otherwise provided in this court.
[07:43.360 --> 07:54.160]  Now it says, the accused in any felony case shall have the right to an examining trial
[07:54.160 --> 08:01.440]  before indictment in the county having jurisdiction of the offense, whether he be in custody or
[08:01.440 --> 08:07.440]  on bail, at which time the magistrate at the hearing shall determine the amount of sufficiency
[08:07.440 --> 08:10.480]  of bail if available case.
[08:10.480 --> 08:15.080]  Okay, that seems pretty clear.
[08:15.080 --> 08:26.200]  The accused in any felony case shall have the right to an examining trial before indictment.
[08:26.200 --> 08:36.760]  Okay, and there's reason for that, because Article 19.27, Code of Criminal Procedure,
[08:36.760 --> 08:45.280]  Article 19 goes to the appointment and seating of grand jurors.
[08:45.280 --> 08:52.520]  And 19.27, any person may challenge, before the grand jury has been impaneled, any person
[08:52.520 --> 08:58.720]  may challenge the array of jurors or any person presented as a grand juror, in no other way
[08:58.720 --> 09:04.120]  shall objections to the qualifications and legality of the grand jury be heard.
[09:04.120 --> 09:08.800]  Any person confined in jail in the county shall upon his request be brought into the
[09:08.800 --> 09:11.400]  court to make such challenge.
[09:11.400 --> 09:20.560]  Okay, if you don't know an indictment's coming, how would you exercise this right?
[09:20.560 --> 09:28.000]  Well, in order to ensure that you can exercise this right, this prohibition was put into
[09:28.000 --> 09:30.080]  1601.
[09:30.080 --> 09:34.680]  You must be brought before a magistrate for an examining trial.
[09:34.680 --> 09:42.120]  And at the examining trial, if the magistrate finds no probable cause, there's not going
[09:42.120 --> 09:47.600]  to be a petition for an indictment, because it goes away.
[09:47.600 --> 09:52.400]  Now, if the police needs more evidence, they go find some more evidence, come back, hold
[09:52.400 --> 10:01.320]  themselves another examining trial, and the examining court finds probable cause, then
[10:01.320 --> 10:10.200]  the accused has ample warning that an indictment is imminent if the probable cause was found
[10:10.200 --> 10:13.120]  on a felony charge.
[10:13.120 --> 10:15.960]  So he has notice.
[10:15.960 --> 10:26.720]  Then there's more, Article 20.22, Presentment Intuitive Record.
[10:26.720 --> 10:33.120]  Now, 20.21 is the one that says to the grand jury after they vote to true bill or no bill
[10:33.120 --> 10:43.320]  that come before the court or the clerk with a quorum of the grand jury present and notify
[10:43.320 --> 10:54.000]  the court of the indictments, and the clerk shall make notes in the minutes of the court.
[10:54.000 --> 11:01.440]  I often go to the courts and ask to see the minutes of the court, and they say, huh?
[11:01.440 --> 11:06.920]  I want to see the minutes of the court as referenced by Article 20.21, Code of Criminal
[11:06.920 --> 11:07.920]  Procedure.
[11:07.920 --> 11:11.840]  And that's when they start jumping up and down and getting all excited, except in Travis
[11:11.840 --> 11:15.000]  County, in which case they just go get the book and hand it to me, and I open it up and
[11:15.000 --> 11:17.120]  there it is.
[11:17.120 --> 11:22.200]  County I'm in says that those records are sealed.
[11:22.200 --> 11:24.960]  Let's see how that works.
[11:24.960 --> 11:27.440]  Anyway, we'll get to that.
[11:27.440 --> 11:35.920]  Okay, 20.22, it is the last one under Duties of Grand Jurors.
[11:35.920 --> 11:42.040]  Defendant entered of record, the fact of a presentment of indictment by a grand jury
[11:42.040 --> 11:48.600]  shall be entered in the record of the court if the defendant is in custody or under bond,
[11:48.600 --> 11:53.600]  notifying briefly the style of the criminal action, the file number of the indictment,
[11:53.600 --> 11:55.240]  and the defendant's name.
[11:55.240 --> 12:03.480]  You noticed if the person is in custody or under bond, if the defendant is not in custody
[12:03.480 --> 12:08.320]  or under bond at the time of the presentment of the indictment, the indictment may not
[12:08.320 --> 12:14.880]  be made public and the entry in the record of the court relating to the indictment must
[12:14.880 --> 12:20.000]  be delayed until the capiest is served and the defendant is placed in custody or under
[12:20.000 --> 12:21.720]  bond.
[12:21.720 --> 12:28.160]  You cannot have an indictment entered into the records of the court until the person
[12:28.160 --> 12:30.920]  has been arrested, and this goes back to 16.01.
[12:30.920 --> 12:36.600]  Well, Randy, it seems that Trestle v. State would have v-cated all that.
[12:36.600 --> 12:40.600]  Trestle v. State, we will get to Trestle v. State.
[12:40.600 --> 12:44.600]  That is the biggest piece of trash I've ever seen.
[12:44.600 --> 12:48.720]  I agree, but there's a lot of other case law that cites it and kind of-
[12:48.720 --> 12:51.960]  Okay, yes, there is, and I got all of those.
[12:51.960 --> 12:52.960]  I understand.
[12:52.960 --> 12:57.280]  All of them cite back to Trestle v. State, and I'll read you the old.
[12:57.280 --> 13:04.160]  They have a very considered and well-thought-out opinion in Trestle v. State.
[13:04.160 --> 13:08.280]  We'll get to that in a minute.
[13:08.280 --> 13:17.680]  Okay, and there's one more, Article 2.01, Texas Code of Criminal Procedure.
[13:17.680 --> 13:23.560]  This is what it says, each district attorney shall represent the state in all criminal
[13:23.560 --> 13:28.100]  cases in the district courts of the district, adding appeals there from accepting cases
[13:28.100 --> 13:34.280]  where he has been before his election employed adversely.
[13:34.280 --> 13:38.760]  When any criminal proceeding is had before an examining court in the district or before
[13:38.760 --> 13:45.600]  a judge upon habeas corpus, and he is notified of the same and is at the time within the
[13:45.600 --> 13:51.480]  district, he shall represent the state therein unless prevented by other official duties.
[13:51.480 --> 13:59.200]  It shall be the primary duty of the prosecuting attorneys, including any special prosecutors,
[13:59.200 --> 14:05.520]  not to convict, but to see that justice is done.
[14:05.520 --> 14:12.160]  They shall not suppress facts or secret witnesses capable of establishing the innocence of the
[14:12.160 --> 14:13.160]  accused.
[14:13.160 --> 14:14.840]  They've changed the language.
[14:14.840 --> 14:19.960]  It used to say, they shall not secret facts that may show the innocence of the accused
[14:19.960 --> 14:25.000]  to mitigate the guilt of the accused, so whoever is codifying this is changing the language
[14:25.000 --> 14:26.000]  of the law.
[14:26.000 --> 14:34.000]  But in any case, let's go back and revisit the very beginning of 2.01, it says duties
[14:34.000 --> 14:41.160]  of a district attorney, and I place emphasis on duties because a duty that lacks discretion,
[14:41.160 --> 14:45.260]  a duty must be carried out.
[14:45.260 --> 14:48.200]  This is not an option.
[14:48.200 --> 14:52.080]  All through this, it says duty, shall, shall, duty, duty, shall.
[14:52.080 --> 14:53.080]  Okay.
[14:53.080 --> 14:58.280]  What if you're aware of exculpatory evidence?
[14:58.280 --> 15:02.520]  Exculpatory evidence being evidence that would exonerate the accused.
[15:02.520 --> 15:05.240]  Or show or mitigate the guilt of the accused.
[15:05.240 --> 15:06.240]  Correct.
[15:06.240 --> 15:13.640]  What if you're aware of it, but it's in your records, it's not publicly known?
[15:13.640 --> 15:19.440]  Well, Ken Anderson was removed from the bench for that not long ago.
[15:19.440 --> 15:22.240]  I know, I know.
[15:22.240 --> 15:30.240]  What if you don't want to have to present this to the grand jury?
[15:30.240 --> 15:38.360]  Problem is, if the chump gets a examining trial, he's gonna put it in front of the court.
[15:38.360 --> 15:44.640]  Now it's officially in front of the court, and the prosecutor would have no option.
[15:44.640 --> 15:50.120]  I don't see the prosecutor has many, if any, options anyway.
[15:50.120 --> 16:01.440]  What I'm going to is why would the prosecutor not follow law in something as public as an
[16:01.440 --> 16:03.800]  indictment of the governor?
[16:03.800 --> 16:07.280]  You'd have to have something to gain.
[16:07.280 --> 16:12.520]  So why would he sneak around behind and run to the grand jury?
[16:12.520 --> 16:19.360]  Okay, now what the case law says, and let's go, let's start with Trestle v. State, because
[16:19.360 --> 16:31.440]  Trestle is the one, all of these guys base their rulings on, let me go to one that references
[16:31.440 --> 16:39.600]  Trestle, Whittington v. State, it is well established that a defender loses his right
[16:39.600 --> 16:44.120]  to an examining trial when he is indicted.
[16:44.120 --> 16:49.040]  That's what they all say, that he loses his right to an examining trial when he's indicted.
[16:49.040 --> 16:50.040]  Now-
[16:50.040 --> 16:53.000]  Randy, you might want to leave the rest of that until after the break, folks.
[16:53.000 --> 16:56.200]  512-646-1984 is the number to call.
[16:56.200 --> 16:58.200]  We'll be right back.
[16:58.200 --> 17:00.680]  Stay tuned.
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[19:29.460 --> 19:47.320]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks, and it's raining here in Austin, Texas.
[19:47.320 --> 19:49.520]  It's been a while since we've seen rain.
[19:49.520 --> 19:53.320]  Seems like it only rains on Fridays, but what a nerd.
[19:53.320 --> 19:55.360]  No better day to see it.
[19:55.360 --> 20:01.320]  Brandy, Trussell v. State, we were talking over the break about Trussell v. State, and
[20:01.320 --> 20:05.200]  you were looking up some other case law that cites Trussell.
[20:05.200 --> 20:11.520]  One case that may not cite Trussell, but it seems that Trussell set the precedence in
[20:11.520 --> 20:19.720]  the V-C-A-T-I-O-N of the, excuse me, of the Code of Criminal Procedure, Section 20.0.1.
[20:19.720 --> 20:23.600]  Is that right?
[20:23.600 --> 20:24.600]  No.
[20:24.600 --> 20:25.600]  I don't know.
[20:25.600 --> 20:26.600]  Where is it?
[20:26.600 --> 20:27.600]  No.
[20:27.600 --> 20:28.600]  16.
[20:28.600 --> 20:29.600]  This is about 16.01.
[20:29.600 --> 20:30.600]  Yeah.
[20:30.600 --> 20:31.600]  16.01.
[20:31.600 --> 20:32.680]  I'm trying to set the stage here.
[20:32.680 --> 20:37.800]  Why would the prosecutor want to go to the grand jury first?
[20:37.800 --> 20:43.200]  You're talking about in the case of the governor?
[20:43.200 --> 20:44.800]  The governor, yeah.
[20:44.800 --> 20:45.800]  Okay.
[20:45.800 --> 20:49.000]  I'm thinking he's got to have something to gain by it, either politically or voluntarily.
[20:49.000 --> 20:52.960]  Well, I'm thinking more prosecutorially.
[20:52.960 --> 20:56.640]  What happens if he holds an examining trial?
[20:56.640 --> 21:00.000]  If he files a complaint with the magistrate, and that's what he's required.
[21:00.000 --> 21:09.280]  When the prosecutor receives a complaint, he is required to reduce a complaint to information
[21:09.280 --> 21:12.000]  and submit it to some magistrate.
[21:12.000 --> 21:16.640]  It doesn't say anything about the grand jury.
[21:16.640 --> 21:24.200]  Then the magistrate, let me look that up real quick, it's 2.0, 2, 3 and 4 of the Code
[21:24.200 --> 21:32.280]  of Criminal Procedure, right up there in the very front, so it's real hard for him to
[21:32.280 --> 21:33.280]  miss.
[21:33.280 --> 21:43.960]  Okay, 2.0.1, we just read, 2.0.2, it tells prosecutors, county and district, what kind
[21:43.960 --> 21:50.160]  of cases they'll handle, what kind of civil suits they'll handle, 2.0.3, special duty
[21:50.160 --> 21:57.880]  of district or county attorney relating to child support, 2.0.3, neglect of duty.
[21:57.880 --> 22:06.240]  I'll paraphrase this, it's kind of long, but if a prosecuting attorney receives a complaint
[22:06.240 --> 22:13.040]  against a public official accusing him of neglect of any duty, he must present that
[22:13.040 --> 22:15.440]  to the grand jury.
[22:15.440 --> 22:18.720]  He has no option, that's what 2.0.3 says.
[22:18.720 --> 22:24.800]  2.0.4 shall draw complaints upon complaint being made before a district or county attorney
[22:24.800 --> 22:32.360]  that an offense has been committed and his district or county, or in his district or
[22:32.360 --> 22:38.320]  county, he shall reduce the complaint to writing, cause the same to be signed and sworn to by
[22:38.320 --> 22:43.880]  the complainant and it shall be duly attested by said attorney.
[22:43.880 --> 22:47.760]  That's the one that authorizes the attorney to verify a criminal complaint.
[22:47.760 --> 22:55.720]  2.0.5, when complaint is made, if the offense be a misdemeanor, the attorney shall forthwith
[22:55.720 --> 23:01.880]  prepared information based upon such complaint and file the same in the court having jurisdiction
[23:01.880 --> 23:07.400]  provided that in counties having no county attorney misdemeanor cases may be tried upon
[23:07.400 --> 23:10.480]  complaint alone without the information provided.
[23:10.480 --> 23:16.120]  However, in courts having one or more criminal district courts, that information must be
[23:16.120 --> 23:20.320]  filed in each misdemeanor case.
[23:20.320 --> 23:28.520]  If the offense be a felony, he shall forthwith file the complaint with a magistrate of the
[23:28.520 --> 23:31.080]  county.
[23:31.080 --> 23:43.800]  Now why would he specifically be directed to do that only in the case of a felony?
[23:43.800 --> 23:55.620]  Because 16.01, in the case of a felony, a person has a right to an examining trial by
[23:55.620 --> 24:00.520]  a magistrate prior to an indictment.
[24:00.520 --> 24:05.320]  So he's a district attorney, there's nothing in here that directs him to give a complaint
[24:05.320 --> 24:09.560]  to a grand jury.
[24:09.560 --> 24:14.960]  So the question becomes how does a complaint get to a grand jury?
[24:14.960 --> 24:19.600]  Well, that's real clear in here.
[24:19.600 --> 24:29.400]  17.30, after an examining trial, the, let me look it up and read it to you here, the
[24:29.400 --> 24:48.960]  magistrate has a very specific duty he must perform, 17.30 shall certify proceedings.
[24:48.960 --> 24:55.080]  The magistrate before whom an examination has taken place upon a criminal accusation
[24:55.080 --> 25:01.520]  shall certify to all the proceedings had before him, as well as where he discharges, holds
[25:01.520 --> 25:08.600]  to bail or commits, and transmit them sealed up to the court before which the defendant
[25:08.600 --> 25:15.160]  may be tried, writing his name across the seals of the envelope, the voluntary statement
[25:15.160 --> 25:16.440]  of the defendant.
[25:16.440 --> 25:24.560]  And that's in 16.02 at an examining trial, you have a right to give a voluntary statement
[25:24.560 --> 25:28.440]  prior to any evidence being entered against you.
[25:28.440 --> 25:33.380]  The voluntary statement of the defendant, the testimony, bail bonds, and every other
[25:33.380 --> 25:41.720]  proceeding in the case shall thus be delivered to the clerk of the proper court without delay.
[25:41.720 --> 25:51.480]  17.31, duty of clerks who receive such proceedings to be delivered to a district clerk, he shall
[25:51.480 --> 25:59.680]  keep them safely and deliver the same up to the next grand jury.
[25:59.680 --> 26:05.320]  That's how a grand jury gets them, not from a prosecutor.
[26:05.320 --> 26:11.640]  A prosecutor is required to give them to some magistrate.
[26:11.640 --> 26:16.520]  Well, that appears not to have happened here.
[26:16.520 --> 26:24.880]  It appears as though the prosecutor took the complaint to the grand jury himself.
[26:24.880 --> 26:27.980]  Now how does that work?
[26:27.980 --> 26:35.360]  And in doing so, he denied the accused the right to challenge the grand jury pool, he
[26:35.360 --> 26:41.600]  denied the accused the right to inter-exculpatory evidence, and he denied him the right to an
[26:41.600 --> 26:43.600]  examining trial.
[26:43.600 --> 26:47.440]  And then we get to Trussell v. State.
[26:47.440 --> 26:52.820]  Before we go to Trussell v. State, you read something here in the dereliction of duties
[26:52.820 --> 26:58.000]  of a public official where a complaint must be reduced to writing and delivered to a grand
[26:58.000 --> 27:00.060]  jury.
[27:00.060 --> 27:09.560]  That right there, even a public official, should have a right to an examining trial.
[27:09.560 --> 27:17.560]  No, no, no, I think he, let me go back and make sure I didn't get that wrong, 204.
[27:17.560 --> 27:20.080]  It doesn't say grand jury.
[27:20.080 --> 27:24.900]  Upon complaint being made before a district or county attorney that an offense has been
[27:24.900 --> 27:30.040]  committed in his district or county, he shall reduce the complaint to writing and cause
[27:30.040 --> 27:38.720]  the same to be signed and sworn to by the complainant, and he shall duly attest, and
[27:38.720 --> 27:40.800]  it shall be duly attested by said attorney.
[27:40.800 --> 27:42.800]  So he notarizes.
[27:42.800 --> 27:48.860]  205, if the offense be a misdemeanor, the attorney shall forthwith prepare an information
[27:48.860 --> 27:52.600]  based upon such complaint and file the same with the county having jurisdiction.
[27:52.600 --> 27:56.160]  I won't read all that mitigating stuff in the middle.
[27:56.160 --> 28:04.680]  If the offense be a felony, he shall forthwith file the complaint with a magistrate of the
[28:04.680 --> 28:10.360]  county, not a grand jury.
[28:10.360 --> 28:16.120]  He must file it with a magistrate so that the magistrate can give him an examining trial
[28:16.120 --> 28:20.360]  so that he can then send the records to the clerk so the clerk can send them to the grand
[28:20.360 --> 28:22.000]  jury.
[28:22.000 --> 28:23.820]  It's all real clear in the code.
[28:23.820 --> 28:28.200]  Is that in strict regard to offenses committed by a public official?
[28:28.200 --> 28:31.520]  No, no, just 203 is the only one.
[28:31.520 --> 28:36.680]  That is strictly regarding a public official.
[28:36.680 --> 28:44.640]  That's a special statute exempted out of the normal due process.
[28:44.640 --> 28:50.240]  And a special statute should be given precedence over a general statute because we have the
[28:50.240 --> 28:54.720]  general statute, 204, 205, 206.
[28:54.720 --> 28:58.080]  They tell them how to do all this stuff.
[28:58.080 --> 29:06.600]  203, it's still a criminal complaint and it could be handled by 204, 205, 206.
[29:06.600 --> 29:13.080]  But if it's a complaint alleging a dereliction of duty, there is this special thing you do
[29:13.080 --> 29:17.600]  with it different from the general process.
[29:17.600 --> 29:19.520]  You take that straight to the grand jury.
[29:19.520 --> 29:20.520]  You don't pass go.
[29:20.520 --> 29:25.760]  You don't collect 200 bucks, which in this particular case brings up something really
[29:25.760 --> 29:27.640]  interesting.
[29:27.640 --> 29:42.640]  The governor was accused of vetoing funding for a public integrity unit.
[29:42.640 --> 29:49.040]  Why 2.03 makes a public integrity unit by the district attorney's office illegal.
[29:49.040 --> 29:50.680]  You can't have a public integrity unit.
[29:50.680 --> 29:53.680]  You can't investigate into complaints against public officials.
[29:53.680 --> 29:55.280]  You got to give those to the grand jury.
[29:55.280 --> 29:56.280]  Get it out of your hands.
[29:56.280 --> 30:00.000]  We'll be right back.
[30:00.000 --> 30:08.280]  PowerPoint has crept into our lives and reached the level of near obsession in corporate America.
[30:08.280 --> 30:10.240]  Are we going overboard with it?
[30:10.240 --> 30:15.280]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, back with a commentary on how PowerPoint erodes critical thinking
[30:15.280 --> 30:17.740]  next.
[30:17.740 --> 30:19.460]  Privacy is under attack.
[30:19.460 --> 30:23.040]  When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[30:23.040 --> 30:28.040]  And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish, too.
[30:28.040 --> 30:29.560]  So protect your rights.
[30:29.560 --> 30:33.160]  Say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[30:33.160 --> 30:34.160]  Privacy.
[30:34.160 --> 30:35.820]  It's worth hanging on to.
[30:35.820 --> 30:41.480]  This message is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search engine alternative to Google,
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[30:48.560 --> 30:50.560]  Death by PowerPoint.
[30:50.560 --> 30:55.320]  This presentation program has turned countless meetings into mind-numbing boredom.
[30:55.320 --> 30:56.320]  Got a product idea?
[30:56.320 --> 30:57.640]  Do a PowerPoint.
[30:57.640 --> 30:59.360]  Trouble on the battlefield?
[30:59.360 --> 31:00.360]  PowerPoint again.
[31:00.360 --> 31:01.360]  Ugh.
[31:01.360 --> 31:05.280]  Unless it's creatively spiffed up with lots of pictures, PowerPoint can be the death of
[31:05.280 --> 31:06.280]  a meeting.
[31:06.280 --> 31:10.880]  It relieves the lazy speaker from having to actually write a thoughtful speech or convey
[31:10.880 --> 31:12.780]  a persuasive argument.
[31:12.780 --> 31:16.900]  Too often, instead of analysis, we get mind-numbing bullet points.
[31:16.900 --> 31:20.040]  The key is never to put your speech up on the screen.
[31:20.040 --> 31:24.080]  Use lots of pictures and never, ever, never read from a slide.
[31:24.080 --> 31:29.400]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
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[32:00.000 --> 32:05.800]  Rule of Law Radio is proud to offer the Rule of Law traffic seminar.
[32:05.800 --> 32:09.640]  In today's America, we live in an us-against-them society, and if we the people are ever going
[32:09.640 --> 32:13.600]  to have a free society, then we're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
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[32:16.800 --> 32:20.600]  in our own private capacity, and most importantly, the right to due process of law.
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[33:04.680 --> 33:09.920]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[33:09.920 --> 33:25.920]  Yes, I got a warrant and I'm going to serve them, to the government them, prosecute them.
[33:25.920 --> 33:26.920]  Okay.
[33:26.920 --> 33:55.440]  We
[33:55.440 --> 33:56.440]  are back.
[33:56.440 --> 34:06.740]  I just gave the
[34:06.740 --> 34:15.060]  procedure it is really, really clear, the prosecutor in a felony case is required to
[34:15.060 --> 34:23.060]  present the complaint to some magistrate, nothing about giving it to grand jury.
[34:23.060 --> 34:29.940]  The magistrate then holds the examining trial and makes a determination of probable cause
[34:29.940 --> 34:34.120]  and then sends it to the clerk of the court and the clerk of the court, if he finds probable
[34:34.120 --> 34:41.200]  cause, then presents, then forwards the documents to the grand jury.
[34:41.200 --> 34:57.340]  I deliberately didn't say presents because in law, the clerk only brings the knowledge
[34:57.340 --> 35:03.540]  of the criminal accusation to the attention of the grand jury.
[35:03.540 --> 35:12.780]  The prosecuting attorney is the one that normally presents to the grand jury and a prosecutor
[35:12.780 --> 35:19.440]  will tell you that he is the only one who can present to the grand jury and that is
[35:19.440 --> 35:22.240]  not true.
[35:22.240 --> 35:29.820]  He is the only one who can present a criminal accusation to a grand jury as a matter of
[35:29.820 --> 35:32.240]  right.
[35:32.240 --> 35:37.480]  If requested by a grand jury, anyone can present to the grand jury.
[35:37.480 --> 35:43.780]  I once presented to a grand jury at the grand jury's request.
[35:43.780 --> 35:49.140]  They did not have the prosecuting attorney do that and that's because my complaint
[35:49.140 --> 35:54.580]  was against the prosecuting attorney, so I kind of screwed that part up for him.
[35:54.580 --> 35:59.680]  But anyone can present if they're requested to do so by the grand jury.
[35:59.680 --> 36:02.960]  Only the prosecutor can present as a matter of right.
[36:02.960 --> 36:06.760]  Okay, we got that cleared up, I think.
[36:06.760 --> 36:17.640]  And now we go to how did we get to the point to where the courts are saying that, like
[36:17.640 --> 36:25.520]  I read here in Whittington v. State, it is well established that a defendant loses his
[36:25.520 --> 36:30.200]  right to an examining trial when he is indicted.
[36:30.200 --> 36:34.600]  Okay, well established.
[36:34.600 --> 36:41.560]  Goes to references Brown v. State 1971 and all of these, I've looked through them,
[36:41.560 --> 36:44.680]  they reference down.
[36:44.680 --> 36:59.720]  Ballard v. State 76, McDonald's State 74, Tarpley v. Estelle 83, and we kind of go down
[36:59.720 --> 37:00.720]  Brown.
[37:00.720 --> 37:02.840]  Now that referenced Brown.
[37:02.840 --> 37:05.640]  Brown references Harris.
[37:05.640 --> 37:13.800]  Harris references a whole bunch of them and the oldest one that Harris references is Trussell
[37:13.800 --> 37:16.200]  v. State.
[37:16.200 --> 37:22.040]  And all of the rest of them build their position on Trussell v. State.
[37:22.040 --> 37:24.960]  So let's go up and look at Trussell v. State.
[37:24.960 --> 37:27.920]  It's only a page or two.
[37:27.920 --> 37:32.800]  Trussell v. State, okay, I'm in the right place.
[37:32.800 --> 37:37.440]  The state did not seek death penalty, the jury having found appellant guilty, he elected
[37:37.440 --> 37:40.840]  to have the same jury assess punishment, blah, blah, blah.
[37:40.840 --> 37:46.920]  What's first ground of error is the failure of the trial judge to set aside the indictment
[37:46.920 --> 37:51.760]  because the appellant had been denied a preliminary hearing.
[37:51.760 --> 37:59.240]  The record reflects that appellant was arrested for the robbery and taken before a magistrate
[37:59.240 --> 38:06.640]  on January 10, 1966, where he was advised of the nature of the charge and of his rights.
[38:06.640 --> 38:12.280]  He asked for an examining trial and that counsel be appointed.
[38:12.280 --> 38:21.040]  Counsel who represented him at his trial and represents him in this appeal was appointed.
[38:21.040 --> 38:28.200]  On January 13, 1966, the indictment was returned without any examining trial having been held.
[38:28.200 --> 38:34.760]  Appellate site 1601 CCP, Code of Criminal Procedure, which he would have us construe
[38:34.760 --> 38:42.040]  as depriving the grand jury of authority to return an indictment prior to his being afforded
[38:42.040 --> 38:45.440]  an examining trial.
[38:45.440 --> 38:51.600]  Article 16.01, the accused in a felony case shall have a right to an examining trial before
[38:51.600 --> 38:56.560]  indictment in the county having jurisdiction of the offense, whether he be in custody or
[38:56.560 --> 39:00.400]  on bail at which time the magistrate's hearing shall determine the amount or sufficiency
[39:00.400 --> 39:03.040]  of bail if available case.
[39:03.040 --> 39:09.720]  And here is their very well thought out and considered opinion, on which all of these
[39:09.720 --> 39:12.840]  other cases rest for authority.
[39:12.840 --> 39:15.000]  Mean all four words of it?
[39:15.000 --> 39:16.520]  We find no error.
[39:16.520 --> 39:18.080]  That's it.
[39:18.080 --> 39:19.520]  That's it.
[39:19.520 --> 39:29.680]  That's how they threw out a statute that the legislature very carefully crafted.
[39:29.680 --> 39:39.080]  Okay, now we've got to look at what the courts would stand to gain by rendering such
[39:39.080 --> 39:42.680]  a lengthy opinion.
[39:42.680 --> 39:48.000]  That's a good question.
[39:48.000 --> 39:49.880]  We don't know why they did that.
[39:49.880 --> 40:00.560]  Rather than my overall complaint that the courts over a period of time have made seemingly
[40:00.560 --> 40:08.680]  minor adjustments toward administrative convenience and adjudicative expediency to the point that
[40:08.680 --> 40:13.860]  the code no longer even vaguely resembles the practice.
[40:13.860 --> 40:16.440]  So then it all comes down to judicial economy.
[40:16.440 --> 40:19.160]  I'm not sure.
[40:19.160 --> 40:25.000]  I suspect there is a more dollar oriented reason.
[40:25.000 --> 40:27.080]  Yeah, I would think so.
[40:27.080 --> 40:33.640]  I'd like to read the definition of presentment from Black's Law Dictionary, Second Pocket
[40:33.640 --> 40:42.080]  Edition 2001, page 548, presentment one.
[40:42.080 --> 40:47.960]  The act of presenting or laying before a court or other tribunal a formal statement about
[40:47.960 --> 40:51.440]  a matter to be dealt with legally.
[40:51.440 --> 41:02.280]  Two, a formal written accusation returned by a grand jury on its own initiative without
[41:02.280 --> 41:07.080]  a prosecutor's previous indictment request.
[41:07.080 --> 41:18.240]  Let me read that one again, two, a formal written accusation returned by a grand jury
[41:18.240 --> 41:27.120]  on its own initiative without a prosecutor's previous indictment request.
[41:27.120 --> 41:31.960]  And I'm going to is, okay, that's blacks.
[41:31.960 --> 41:32.960]  Blacks.
[41:32.960 --> 41:37.920]  Then that's a general nationwide definition.
[41:37.920 --> 41:38.920]  Yes.
[41:38.920 --> 41:40.660]  In Texas.
[41:40.660 --> 41:46.920]  Is present or presentment defined statutorily in the code of criminal procedure?
[41:46.920 --> 41:48.400]  Not that I know of.
[41:48.400 --> 41:52.720]  Then we have the right to go to the dictionary for definition.
[41:52.720 --> 42:04.760]  And both of those definitions can be accurate, except for the last clause of the second definition
[42:04.760 --> 42:11.280]  without the prosecutors having requested an indictment in Texas.
[42:11.280 --> 42:18.720]  If you read the code carefully, the prosecutor has no power to request an indictment.
[42:18.720 --> 42:27.680]  The reason I bring this up is that since presentment is not defined in the code, they may have
[42:27.680 --> 42:34.720]  grabbed this definition from a dictionary and thought, oh, well, we can expedite these
[42:34.720 --> 42:35.960]  things.
[42:35.960 --> 42:43.340]  We can get a lot of revenue generated if we don't give people, if we deprive the people
[42:43.340 --> 42:51.040]  of an examining trial, and here's how we can do it.
[42:51.040 --> 42:56.720]  I would like, I don't know, it's hard- Did I throw you a curve ball?
[42:56.720 --> 42:57.720]  Not exactly.
[42:57.720 --> 43:00.460]  I see the logic to it.
[43:00.460 --> 43:12.100]  But in my research, I have found that these guys don't seem to be that smart.
[43:12.100 --> 43:15.400]  You mean I'm giving them too much of the benefit of a doubt?
[43:15.400 --> 43:17.320]  I think so.
[43:17.320 --> 43:22.800]  From what I see, none of this was planned by anybody.
[43:22.800 --> 43:29.360]  This is like when you're riding a bicycle, you first get on the bicycle and you try to
[43:29.360 --> 43:30.880]  do different things.
[43:30.880 --> 43:37.360]  You try to turn the handlebars and the bicycle throws you over them and you say, hmm, I'm
[43:37.360 --> 43:39.360]  not going to do that again.
[43:39.360 --> 43:44.080]  And then you lean a little bit and say, hey, man, that worked really good.
[43:44.080 --> 43:53.520]  And then you pedal and you gradually make little adjustments that increase your balance.
[43:53.520 --> 44:09.840]  And over time, you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[44:09.840 --> 44:24.520]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[44:24.520 --> 44:39.520]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[44:39.520 --> 45:07.520]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[45:07.520 --> 45:25.840]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[45:25.840 --> 45:53.840]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[45:53.840 --> 46:10.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[46:10.320 --> 46:38.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[46:38.320 --> 47:06.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[47:06.320 --> 47:22.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[47:22.320 --> 47:38.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[47:38.320 --> 48:02.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[48:02.320 --> 48:30.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[48:30.320 --> 48:50.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[48:50.320 --> 49:10.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[49:10.320 --> 49:34.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[49:34.320 --> 49:54.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[49:54.320 --> 50:14.320]  And that's how you get to where you can ride the bicycle.
[50:14.320 --> 50:25.320]  They start doing these little minor adjustments, and then they have problems come at them out of the woodwork, and they don't understand how it got there.
[50:25.320 --> 50:35.320]  So they have to do one patch on top of another patch, and one of the patches they had to do was this thing they call a magistration.
[50:35.320 --> 50:37.320]  What on earth is that?
[50:37.320 --> 50:43.320]  I don't find magistration anywhere in the statutes or anywhere in the Constitution.
[50:43.320 --> 51:06.320]  Right. It is mentioned in some case law, but that's long after it had been used for a very long time, and they used that term to define a procedure that eventually the procedure got stuck into the code.
[51:06.320 --> 51:13.320]  You're required to take someone arrested before the nearest magistrate in the county.
[51:13.320 --> 51:21.320]  If a magistrate is not available, it used to say you're to take the person to the nearest county where a magistrate is available.
[51:21.320 --> 51:24.320]  They changed the coding slightly.
[51:24.320 --> 51:45.320]  If a magistrate is not available, in order to more expeditiously provide for the accused the rights defined in 1517, you're to take him to any surrounding or any other county in the state.
[51:45.320 --> 51:49.320]  It used to say surrounding county, and they changed that part too.
[51:49.320 --> 52:02.320]  But in order to more expeditiously provide the warnings, well, that's what they do in what they call a magistration.
[52:02.320 --> 52:12.320]  And in the magistration, they're required to notify you that you have a right to an examining trial.
[52:12.320 --> 52:30.320]  Well, if you're not in a surrounding county, but if you're in the county where the offense was committed, the magistrate is required to be holding that examining trial right then and there.
[52:30.320 --> 52:32.320]  Without delay.
[52:32.320 --> 52:42.320]  So he is advising you of your right to an examining trial while he is in the process of denying you.
[52:42.320 --> 52:44.320]  Denying it.
[52:44.320 --> 52:46.320]  What's wrong with that?
[52:46.320 --> 52:48.320]  Corruption as usual.
[52:48.320 --> 53:02.320]  It's just they got this procedure down where they bring a magistrate in, they got 100 guys here. Well, you don't have time to hold an examining trial for all of them besides the cop went home.
[53:02.320 --> 53:13.320]  And that's because they didn't do what 1406 and 1516 requires them to do. They did not take them directly to the nearest magistrate.
[53:13.320 --> 53:18.320]  They took them through him in jail first. That's criminal.
[53:18.320 --> 53:24.320]  And he came to the jailer. The jailer didn't take him to the nearest magistrate where he's required to. That's criminal.
[53:24.320 --> 53:32.320]  They committed all these crimes and now they get to a spot where you got a whole room full of people's been in jail all night.
[53:32.320 --> 53:39.320]  And I got to go through all of them. The cops not here, so he can't testify to his side. How are they going to hold a decent examining trial?
[53:39.320 --> 53:48.320]  If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the several reasons why Eddie Craig quit his job as a jailer.
[53:48.320 --> 53:57.320]  Because they were taking him to jail and not taking him before a magistrate for an examining trial.
[53:57.320 --> 54:03.320]  Well, the law is real clear. And if they did it according to the law, it'd all work well.
[54:03.320 --> 54:09.320]  But they started cutting these corners. They started taking him to jail instead of a magistrate.
[54:09.320 --> 54:14.320]  If every cop, when he arrested somebody, took him straight to the magistrate, they wouldn't have these problems.
[54:14.320 --> 54:22.320]  I'm in Wise County and they do that. And nobody has a problem with it.
[54:22.320 --> 54:28.320]  And I don't hear any complaints about our sheriff's deputies.
[54:28.320 --> 54:37.320]  I talk to our sheriff's deputies. They are very personable. And I have yet to have a single Wise County sheriff's deputy,
[54:37.320 --> 54:44.320]  since Walker has been the sheriff, put his hand on his pistol.
[54:44.320 --> 54:58.320]  They just don't think about that. And I have yet to have a single deputy escalate an issue.
[54:58.320 --> 55:04.320]  Travis County, Tarrant County, everywhere else in Texas.
[55:04.320 --> 55:05.320]  Williamson.
[55:05.320 --> 55:09.320]  Williamson. Williamson used to be one of the worst. It's probably not anymore.
[55:09.320 --> 55:10.320]  Cherokee.
[55:10.320 --> 55:16.320]  You do anything, the officer, if he tells you to do something, you don't jump instantly.
[55:16.320 --> 55:20.320]  His hand goes to his pistol and he starts escalating.
[55:20.320 --> 55:22.320]  Yeah, you then become a threat.
[55:22.320 --> 55:27.320]  Yeah. In Wise County, that don't happen.
[55:27.320 --> 55:38.320]  Part of it is the officers have been given the opportunity to do the job the way it should be done.
[55:38.320 --> 55:44.320]  And I don't want to say that they only do this because they would have to take you to a magistrate and explain themselves.
[55:44.320 --> 55:48.320]  That's not it.
[55:48.320 --> 55:53.320]  Here, they have the opportunity to do the right thing.
[55:53.320 --> 55:58.320]  And I don't believe any of these guys who do these arrests are worried about taking a person before a magistrate,
[55:58.320 --> 56:05.320]  because they have no intention of doing the kind of nonsense you see in other departments all over the state.
[56:05.320 --> 56:11.320]  They don't put their hands on their pistol because they're not terrified of everybody that walks.
[56:11.320 --> 56:24.320]  They don't consider every member of the public as an indigent population of an occupied country.
[56:24.320 --> 56:29.320]  They're your neighbors, the people you know. They're ordinary human beings.
[56:29.320 --> 56:31.320]  What's the population of Wise County?
[56:31.320 --> 56:35.320]  35,000, 35-40,000, something like that.
[56:35.320 --> 56:38.320]  Okay. It's got a lot to do with it.
[56:38.320 --> 56:45.320]  Well, no. When Sheriff Phil Ryan was in, this place was a mess.
[56:45.320 --> 56:50.320]  I had over 50 people come to me with complaints about sheriff's deputies, four sheriff's deputies,
[56:50.320 --> 56:58.320]  come to me, see if I could do something to help them get rid of some of those chumps they had in there, making them all look bad.
[56:58.320 --> 57:08.320]  Since Walker's been sheriff, not one single complaint. Not a one.
[57:08.320 --> 57:12.320]  And I'm more well known in Wise County now than I was then.
[57:12.320 --> 57:15.320]  I would imagine so.
[57:15.320 --> 57:20.320]  But nobody comes to me complaining about our sheriff's deputies.
[57:20.320 --> 57:26.320]  You don't hear anybody calling into this show from Wise County complaining about the police in Wise County.
[57:26.320 --> 57:28.320]  It's just not happening.
[57:28.320 --> 57:32.320]  And the district judge kind of hates me.
[57:32.320 --> 57:38.320]  But all in all, we have good judges here.
[57:38.320 --> 57:44.320]  Judge Cood, absolutely the most personable individual you'll ever come across.
[57:44.320 --> 57:49.320]  And the prosecutor, the county attorney, he's kind of gruff and hard, but that's his style.
[57:49.320 --> 57:55.320]  I've talked to both of them a number of times, and they really work to do things right.
[57:55.320 --> 57:59.320]  And I'm hoping we can get a precedent set where they'll do it elsewhere.
[57:59.320 --> 58:05.320]  And they're actually paying attention when I come down there and complain and say, you know, here's what the code says you're supposed to do.
[58:05.320 --> 58:10.320]  And here's what you actually do. And they actually pay attention.
[58:10.320 --> 58:14.320]  If we can get that around Texas, we'll get a lot of this fixed. I know I'm kind of off subject.
[58:14.320 --> 58:17.320]  We have a couple of calls.
[58:17.320 --> 58:21.320]  Do you have anything else? Do you think we've kind of exhausted this?
[58:21.320 --> 58:28.320]  We've beat this horse well past the point of death, but it needs to be beat.
[58:28.320 --> 58:31.320]  OK, good. OK, then when we come back.
[58:31.320 --> 58:36.320]  If we don't pay attention and hold these guys feet to the fire, we'll never see a day of freedom, period.
[58:36.320 --> 58:37.320]  That's all there is to it.
[58:37.320 --> 58:41.320]  Exactly. When we come back, we'll take Danny. He's going to be real close on topic.
[58:41.320 --> 58:52.320]  Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Rude About Radio. We'll be right back.
[59:11.320 --> 59:18.320]  The free books are a three volume set called Basic Elements of the Christian Life.
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[59:40.320 --> 59:49.320]  That's 888-551-0102. Or visit us online at BFA.org.
[01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:13.320]  Get with your Liberty Beat for Friday, September 5th, 2014.
[01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:16.320]  Gold opened today at $1,265.
[01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:18.320]  Silver opened at $19.10.
[01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:22.320]  And Bitcoin is trading around $484.38.
[01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:28.320]  Today's Bitcoin price brought to you by Expresscoin, the fastest and most reliable way to buy Bitcoin.
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[01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:48.320]  This political advertisement paid for by the Michael Cargill for Austin City Council District 1 campaign.
[01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:57.320]  In the news today, on Thursday, US Attorney General Eric Holder announced the federal government is launching a second investigation into the Ferguson, Missouri Police Department.
[01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:04.320]  The focus will be on who the officers stop and search, how suspects are treated in jail, and the department's officer training.
[01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:08.320]  The investigation will be handled by the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division.
[01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:12.320]  The news comes after weeks of protests following the police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown.
[01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:23.320]  Jacob Lavaro, the 19-year-old man arrested in Williamson County, Texas, for possessing and selling pot brownies, received his trial date this week.
[01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:29.320]  Lavaro was originally facing life in prison, but the first-degree felony charges associated with his case were dropped,
[01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:33.320]  quite possibly due to the massive outcry from local and national activists and supporters.
[01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:37.320]  Justin Armand, executive director of Texans for Accountable Government, is one said supporter.
[01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:42.320]  He was present during the court proceedings and told the Liberty Bee that Jacob needs public support,
[01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:45.320]  as he still faces charges that could carry up to 20 years in prison.
[01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:50.320]  Justin called Lavaro a peaceful young man who would be considered an entrepreneur in Colorado.
[01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:55.320]  Lavaro's court date has been set for December 1, with a pre-trial date set for November 12 at 1.30.
[01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:01.320]  At the pre-trial hearing, Lavaro's attorney will present a motion to suppress certain evidence on the grounds that police entered his home illegally.
[01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:04.320]  The Liberty Bee will keep you up to date as this story unfolds.
[01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:12.320]  San Antonio Police Chief, William McManus, received support from the City Council Public Safety Committee this week,
[01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:19.320]  when he presented a proposal, first revealed by news radio WOAI, to ticket motorists who give money to street corner panhandlers.
[01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:24.320]  McManus told the committee there are alternative ways to give, as money given on the street, quote,
[01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:26.320]  goes for drugs and goes for alcohol.
[01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:29.320]  McManus said he would make a formal presentation on his plan next month.
[01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:33.320]  Support for the Liberty Beat comes from My Magic Mud, all natural teeth whitener.
[01:02:33.320 --> 01:02:37.320]  Go to MyMagicMud.com to hear a short interview with Dr. Griffin Cole.
[01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:39.320]  That's MyMagicMud.com.
[01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:43.320]  And the Liberty Beat is brought to you by Brave New Books, your source for all things Bitcoin.
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[01:02:50.320 --> 01:02:54.320]  This is the Liberty Beat for Friday, September 5, 2014.
[01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:56.320]  Check out the website at TheLibertyBeat.com.
[01:02:56.320 --> 01:03:00.320]  And like us on Facebook. Facebook.com, the Liberty Beat.
[01:03:26.320 --> 01:03:39.320]  We're not going to pay for the war with our body. We're not.
[01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:41.320]  Thank you, Jerry Stevens, for that song.
[01:03:41.320 --> 01:03:44.320]  And we're going to go to calls.
[01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:47.320]  Welcome back to Rule of the Law Radio and welcome to the air.
[01:03:47.320 --> 01:03:53.320]  Danny in Tennessee, what have you got for us this evening, sir?
[01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:59.320]  Well, Randy and I started talking last night. One of those kinds of subjects, the technicalities.
[01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:03.320]  He said that he likes to get into at times that we didn't get finished.
[01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:06.320]  That's not surprising. Randy likes to talk.
[01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:08.320]  Yeah.
[01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:10.320]  Ouch.
[01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:18.320]  The definition, the definition of person in the code of crime procedure and what it really is.
[01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:24.320]  Okay. Regale us.
[01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:37.320]  Well, by what I found, well, when it started off in 1965, when it adopted it, there was no definition of person explicit in the code of crime procedure.
[01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:44.320]  But it had, let's see, 3.01 words and phrases.
[01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:50.320]  And there it said all words, phrases and terms used in this code are to be taken and understood in their usual
[01:04:50.320 --> 01:05:03.320]  exceptation in common language except where especially defined and unless herein especially accepted have the meaning which is given to them in the penal code.
[01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:05.320]  Okay. That seemed all right.
[01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:16.320]  In the code at the time that I was writing this, section 1.07 gave definition of person means an individual, corporation or association.
[01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:18.320]  It also had...
[01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:23.320]  Let me pause you right there. Does it define individual?
[01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:24.320]  Yes.
[01:05:24.320 --> 01:05:25.320]  Okay.
[01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:30.320]  That's why I was just getting to individual means a human being who has been born and is alive.
[01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:37.320]  Well, since that time, they've amended that to include the unborn from the time of conception.
[01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:43.320]  But anyway, that was the meaning then.
[01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:55.320]  Well, then in 1973, the legislature adopted a new penal code which is the current one as far as I know.
[01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:57.320]  I don't think they've replaced it all again.
[01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:10.320]  And in that also, in the act that provided the new penal code, they added Chapter 17A to the Code of Crown Procedure.
[01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.320]  And that's corporations and associations.
[01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:27.320]  And it in Section 17A.01.B.4 gives the definition of person, he and him include corporation and association.
[01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:30.320]  Okay. So now it has a definition of person.
[01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:36.320]  It's not as inclusive as the penal code definition, but so had the penal code.
[01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:40.320]  It looks kind of redundant at the time, but it was there.
[01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:49.320]  But then in 1975, they amended 3.01 and deleted the words at the end of it.
[01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:54.320]  And unless hearings specially accepted how the meaning which is given to them and the penal code.
[01:06:54.320 --> 01:06:59.320]  So they chopped off that reference to the penal code definitions.
[01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:12.320]  So the way I see it, it's just left with that definition that's provided in Chapter 17A saying that it's a corporation and association.
[01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:15.320]  And I have a question.
[01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:16.320]  Okay.
[01:07:16.320 --> 01:07:21.320]  We're reading the code.
[01:07:21.320 --> 01:07:30.320]  Have you looked at the public law that the code is supposed to be prima facie evidence of?
[01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:39.320]  And see if the code accurately reflects the language of the public law.
[01:07:39.320 --> 01:07:44.320]  Okay. I haven't done that recently. I may have done it one time, but I don't remember.
[01:07:44.320 --> 01:07:46.320]  Hang on, Danny.
[01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:52.320]  There you go. Mute yourself there, Randy. Sounds like you got a fan in the background.
[01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:57.320]  It's pushing Danny down. Repeat what you were saying there, Danny.
[01:07:57.320 --> 01:08:03.320]  I said I haven't done that recently. I may have done sometime in the past, but I don't remember it.
[01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:06.320]  Okay.
[01:08:06.320 --> 01:08:14.320]  Okay. Because of the subtle nature of this particular issue.
[01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:36.320]  Because it appears as though 17A, if we are to construe that the definition in 17A is to be expanded to include the entire penal code, then it seems incongruous.
[01:08:36.320 --> 01:08:51.320]  And that would render the entire code of criminal procedure. That would tend to render the code of criminal procedure only applicable to corporations and associations.
[01:08:51.320 --> 01:08:53.320]  That's the way I took it.
[01:08:53.320 --> 01:09:20.320]  And that's unreasonable because it still applies. I would want it to apply to me if that meaning is to be taken literally and generally adapted to the whole code, then that has the effect of eliminating the code as it applies to citizens and real-life human beings.
[01:09:20.320 --> 01:09:24.320]  Is that the way you take it?
[01:09:24.320 --> 01:09:36.320]  Well, that's kind of the way I take it. But I also take it, if you read on down through some more of chapter 17A, that this all becomes a presumption.
[01:09:36.320 --> 01:09:45.320]  Because, let's see, we're further down.
[01:09:45.320 --> 01:09:48.320]  Let's see.
[01:09:48.320 --> 01:10:00.320]  Let me look up 17A. The problem I'm having with 17A is 17A is very specific to corporations and associations.
[01:10:00.320 --> 01:10:07.320]  And the definition is consistent with the purpose and intent of the chapter.
[01:10:07.320 --> 01:10:14.320]  But it's not consistent with the rest of the code.
[01:10:14.320 --> 01:10:24.320]  So that makes me think there is something that mitigates that or there certainly should be something that mitigates that.
[01:10:24.320 --> 01:10:50.320]  Okay, let me get to a few more things further down that kind of goes along with this. So if you go down to 17A.02, it says, allegation of name in alleging the name of a defendant corporation is sufficient to state in the complaint, indictment or information, the corporate name, or to state any name or designation by which the corporation is known or may be identified.
[01:10:50.320 --> 01:10:57.320]  It is not necessary to allege that the defendant was lawfully incorporated.
[01:10:57.320 --> 01:11:01.320]  So are we going to the straw man?
[01:11:01.320 --> 01:11:07.320]  It sounds that it's first thing came to my mind.
[01:11:07.320 --> 01:11:10.320]  Say it again, Danny.
[01:11:10.320 --> 01:11:28.320]  Yeah, that's pretty much the same idea that assumption is that if you're a defendant, there is going to be a corporation because they don't need to state that it really is a corporation and use any name by which it may be known.
[01:11:28.320 --> 01:11:43.320]  Yeah, that straw man still pops up.
[01:11:43.320 --> 01:11:58.320]  They go before the court, they go in their real persona and not in their corporate persona. So therefore, this code does not apply to them.
[01:11:58.320 --> 01:12:15.320]  Yeah, let me give you another little clue that's not definitely in the code, but with something that was done. So I was helping a guy a couple of years ago with a nuisance abatement charge they brought against him for stuff around his house.
[01:12:15.320 --> 01:12:40.320]  And so, you know, I was telling him about chapter 15 and different things, he'd gotten a summons from court. And so he goes there in response to that. And they start doing this stuff, and he starts complaining about them not doing the thing in chapter 15, the other things they should be doing, and told him that, well, they weren't going, they weren't using chapter 15.
[01:12:40.320 --> 01:13:09.320]  And so he told me that I said, Oh, really, well, I go look in where he'll cause he's answering a summons. So 15.03 has about a summons to court. Also 17.8.03 has about summoning a corporation or association. And so that's one of the two places that it has about answering a summons to court is 15.03 and 17.8.03.
[01:13:09.320 --> 01:13:19.320]  Okay, something was missing there. He was charged under what?
[01:13:19.320 --> 01:13:29.320]  Nuisance abatement, you know, penal code, I mean, penal code, ordinance, health and safety code.
[01:13:29.320 --> 01:13:46.320]  So what does health and safety code say about what law applies to the adjudication of a violation of the health and safety code?
[01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:59.320]  Well, this is charged as a criminal offense, because one of the things in it is that upon a second conviction, there's jail time available.
[01:13:59.320 --> 01:14:20.320]  Okay, so original one was a misdemeanor, class C misdemeanor. The second one would go to a class B misdemeanor. Then I think you would look in chapter 46, JPs and municipal courts.
[01:14:20.320 --> 01:14:23.320]  Did you look there?
[01:14:23.320 --> 01:14:29.320]  For summons? No, I mean summons, I searched the whole code for summons.
[01:14:29.320 --> 01:14:37.320]  So there's nothing in, is it 45 or 46, Steve, that governs JP courts?
[01:14:37.320 --> 01:14:39.320]  Don't get me to lie.
[01:14:39.320 --> 01:14:45.320]  Okay, it's one of those two. But that one didn't have anything concerning a summons.
[01:14:45.320 --> 01:14:59.320]  So then naturally, we would go back to, okay, then that code for the JPs is kind of self-contained, or it's intended to be self-contained.
[01:14:59.320 --> 01:15:14.320]  And whatever's not in there, then you would go back to the rest of the code. I'm trying to get at where the actual authority lay.
[01:15:14.320 --> 01:15:20.320]  Before we say that they're not doing it right, we need to make sure we're in the right place.
[01:15:20.320 --> 01:15:29.320]  So this was a class C misdemeanor he was really charged with, and nuisance abatement, was he charged by a county or municipality?
[01:15:29.320 --> 01:15:31.320]  Municipality.
[01:15:31.320 --> 01:15:38.320]  Okay, then he's under municipal ordinance, because that's all that a municipality can enforce.
[01:15:38.320 --> 01:15:45.320]  What does an ordinance, to whom does an ordinance apply?
[01:15:45.320 --> 01:15:55.320]  Oh, wait, I'm sorry. You said it was under the, under what code, under the health and safety code.
[01:15:55.320 --> 01:16:11.320]  Okay, so he's charged under a state code and not under a city ordinance. So yes, if it's a crime, yes, then the municipal police can enforce state law.
[01:16:11.320 --> 01:16:20.320]  Yeah, well, it was structured as an ordinance, I believe, but the ordinance code, it references the health and safety code, because that's his real authority for it.
[01:16:20.320 --> 01:16:30.320]  Well, then, okay, then that brings up another issue, too annoying to go to.
[01:16:30.320 --> 01:16:44.320]  If we're in the city ordinances, I would assume that there's nothing to prevent, nothing to guide them other than the code of criminal procedure.
[01:16:44.320 --> 01:16:50.320]  Okay, when we come back, I need to get kind of focused to see where we're going here. I think I've lost my track.
[01:16:50.320 --> 01:17:15.320]  Hang on, Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Rules on Radio are calling number 512-646-1984. We'll be right back.
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[01:19:00.320 --> 01:19:11.320]  This is the Logos Radio Network.
[01:19:11.320 --> 01:19:21.320]  Thanks for watching.
[01:19:41.320 --> 01:19:58.320]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Weave Low Radio, and we're talking to Danny in Tennessee. Okay, I'm taking it that this is all about what is a person.
[01:19:58.320 --> 01:20:17.320]  Yeah, and what procedures are they actually using because you're going down and read the procedures for when you get to court under this chapter. It looks just like what you experience if you don't bring up things like what you do.
[01:20:17.320 --> 01:20:32.320]  You're in there to enter a plea for the first time and everything and it sounds just like the same thing. And another part of this, let's see where it is down here.
[01:20:32.320 --> 01:20:53.320]  Okay, 78.07, presence of a corporation or association. A defendant corporation or association appears through counsel. If a corporation or association does not appear in response to summons or appears but fails, refuses to plead, it is deemed to be present in person for all purposes.
[01:20:53.320 --> 01:21:11.320]  The court shall enter a plea of not guilty on its behalf and the court may proceed with trial, judgment, and sentencing if having appeared and entered.
[01:21:11.320 --> 01:21:25.320]  Okay, this is clearly intended to go to a fictional entity, Company Corporation LLC.
[01:21:25.320 --> 01:21:52.320]  And how do we reasonably expand the definition contained in 17A to the entire code where back in chapter 3, it says if something's not specifically defined in the normal, then we go to the normal usage.
[01:21:52.320 --> 01:21:56.320]  Well, it is specifically defined.
[01:21:56.320 --> 01:22:04.320]  But it's not automatically expanded out of the very finely crafted context.
[01:22:04.320 --> 01:22:33.320]  Someone wants to say a statute inside a chapter that goes to corporations and associations that defines person as corporation and association in this chapter that because there's not another definition somewhere else that we must necessarily expand this definition.
[01:22:33.320 --> 01:22:39.320]  To all instances of use of person.
[01:22:39.320 --> 01:22:43.320]  How did we get that?
[01:22:43.320 --> 01:22:48.320]  It says in this code. These are definitions in this code.
[01:22:48.320 --> 01:22:53.320]  Okay, that was something we talked about last night. In this code.
[01:22:53.320 --> 01:22:57.320]  That's part of why I hate pronouns.
[01:22:57.320 --> 01:23:11.320]  Does this code apply to 1731 or to the entire code of criminal procedure?
[01:23:11.320 --> 01:23:20.320]  Well, I think it's the entire code of criminal procedure because you can find other places where it says in this chapter or in this article.
[01:23:20.320 --> 01:23:27.320]  And here it says code. I come across some places also set in this code.
[01:23:27.320 --> 01:23:37.320]  Are there any cases on this issue? Do we have any explanation or any guidance here from the courts?
[01:23:37.320 --> 01:23:52.320]  Not that I remember coming upon, but also this kind of goes along with what is that rule 52 for alleging the name and civil procedure rule 52.
[01:23:52.320 --> 01:23:56.320]  I've heard of it. I don't have that one memorized.
[01:23:56.320 --> 01:24:14.320]  Allegation that something like an allegation that the name is that for a corporation is accepted as true unless rebutted by the affidavit of one of the parties, something like that.
[01:24:14.320 --> 01:24:27.320]  Okay, then that's an issue for a civil case, but we can't drag that into the criminal side. Criminal is a subset.
[01:24:27.320 --> 01:24:30.320]  Or can we?
[01:24:30.320 --> 01:24:42.320]  Well, it's comparable to it. I think you use a civil when there's nothing specific on that issue in the criminal.
[01:24:42.320 --> 01:24:53.320]  Meaning that if an issue is not specifically addressed in the civil subset of the criminal code.
[01:24:53.320 --> 01:25:02.320]  Let me say that more clearly. The code of criminal procedure is a subset of the rules of civil procedure.
[01:25:02.320 --> 01:25:11.320]  It's a specific subset that addresses a specific kind of trial.
[01:25:11.320 --> 01:25:26.320]  So, is there something in the code of criminal procedure that addresses where you would go if a circumstance is not specifically addressed in the code of criminal procedure?
[01:25:26.320 --> 01:25:42.320]  The only one I know of is go to the common law and not to the rules of civil procedure. Is there something else that would let us get out and pull in that rule 52?
[01:25:42.320 --> 01:25:49.320]  I'm not sure. It seems like I've come across that sometime, but I can't think of what it is right now.
[01:25:49.320 --> 01:26:03.320]  Okay, that makes this a difficult issue. It is an interesting issue. And I've heard people make the argument before, but never with quite the code citations that you have.
[01:26:03.320 --> 01:26:09.320]  I would like to know if there's some case law on this subject.
[01:26:09.320 --> 01:26:21.320]  So another piece of experience that goes along with this, you know, it's talking about his summons there and they said they weren't doing by Chapter 15.
[01:26:21.320 --> 01:26:28.320]  And get down on down here. The part was talking about the presence of a corporation.
[01:26:28.320 --> 01:26:36.320]  And, you know, the corporation out there says the court may proceed with trial judgment or sentencing.
[01:26:36.320 --> 01:26:40.320]  And I had that happen to me once.
[01:26:40.320 --> 01:26:47.320]  Where I was never in the court and I was supposedly found guilty because I wasn't there.
[01:26:47.320 --> 01:26:52.320]  Was that a Class C misdemeanor case?
[01:26:52.320 --> 01:26:54.320]  Yes.
[01:26:54.320 --> 01:27:00.320]  Yeah, they do that in Class C misdemeanors, even though as far as I can tell, it's improper.
[01:27:00.320 --> 01:27:11.320]  Is there anything and I'm sorry, is there anything in statute that requires or statute or rules rather that requires service of process?
[01:27:11.320 --> 01:27:17.320]  On Class C misdemeanor.
[01:27:17.320 --> 01:27:21.320]  Not sure, Danny.
[01:27:21.320 --> 01:27:30.320]  Well, I mean, notices, that's what the site original notation is, your notice, supposedly why they take it.
[01:27:30.320 --> 01:27:38.320]  I mean, yeah, but see, that's not required to they don't do an actual citation where it's served.
[01:27:38.320 --> 01:27:42.320]  They do it by certified mail.
[01:27:42.320 --> 01:27:58.320]  Yeah, well, in a lot of cases, even in civil cases, service in some cases can be served or process can be served rather by certified mail.
[01:27:58.320 --> 01:28:04.320]  Most times by hand delivery, either by a courier or a process server.
[01:28:04.320 --> 01:28:10.320]  Original, always the original petition, but everything else after that should be mailable.
[01:28:10.320 --> 01:28:16.320]  So, Steve, is your question that the original citation had to be served?
[01:28:16.320 --> 01:28:18.320]  Yes.
[01:28:18.320 --> 01:28:21.320]  Isn't that always. Oh, OK. I see.
[01:28:21.320 --> 01:28:23.320]  It is if it's a ticket.
[01:28:23.320 --> 01:28:24.320]  Yes.
[01:28:24.320 --> 01:28:26.320]  It's the guy gives it to you.
[01:28:26.320 --> 01:28:40.320]  Yeah, it's served right there on the side of the road, but I'm talking about having having to go to court, not just appear before the magistrate to, you know, or go pay your fine or whatever.
[01:28:40.320 --> 01:28:48.320]  OK, let's let's say there's an extenuating circumstance such as failure to appear.
[01:28:48.320 --> 01:28:56.320]  Is there anything in the statute or code that requires that you be served?
[01:28:56.320 --> 01:28:58.320]  Process.
[01:28:58.320 --> 01:29:04.320]  That is, that you be served a citation, not roadside citation.
[01:29:04.320 --> 01:29:16.320]  Let me differentiate that that ticket they call a citation, but also more in civil cases where you're being sued.
[01:29:16.320 --> 01:29:20.320]  And if the state is suing you, that would be usually a criminal case.
[01:29:20.320 --> 01:29:28.320]  I don't see how the suit can file how the state can file a a civil suit against you.
[01:29:28.320 --> 01:29:39.320]  But in the process, is there if you're if you're usually if you've got to appear in court, you're served summons of some sort.
[01:29:39.320 --> 01:29:50.320]  That's usually by private courier or process server, the constable stop by here, gives you a piece of paper, says you are you have been sued.
[01:29:50.320 --> 01:29:55.320]  OK, that's kind of covered in the rest.
[01:29:55.320 --> 01:30:02.320]  Hang on, Randy. We'll be right back.
[01:30:02.320 --> 01:30:11.320]  The Chicago Marathon is no tiptoe through the tulips, but a pregnant woman overdue with her second child ran the whole race before going into labor.
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[01:31:19.320 --> 01:31:24.320]  Phew. I bet that was a relief. I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for Start Page dot com.
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[01:33:03.320 --> 01:33:09.320]  Looking for some truth? You found it. Logos radio network dot com.
[01:33:33.320 --> 01:33:39.320]  Randy, you want me to bring us in or you want to bring us in?
[01:33:39.320 --> 01:33:45.320]  Let's see. I think we're already in. I'd say so.
[01:33:45.320 --> 01:33:51.320]  Go ahead. This is Randy.
[01:33:51.320 --> 01:33:57.320]  And yeah, no other other jerk in the background. Danny, we need to wrap you up, buddy.
[01:33:57.320 --> 01:34:03.320]  We're the phone lines are stacking up.
[01:34:03.320 --> 01:34:07.320]  So can we can we come to some fruition in this conversation?
[01:34:07.320 --> 01:34:13.320]  And by the way, thank you very much for calling in and bringing.
[01:34:13.320 --> 01:34:17.320]  You're a good researcher. Thank you for bringing your work to the air.
[01:34:17.320 --> 01:34:23.320]  Yeah. And see if you can find us some case law on this subject.
[01:34:23.320 --> 01:34:29.320]  That would help. All right. Well, see if I can come up with something. But, you know, OK, one thing for you, Steve.
[01:34:29.320 --> 01:34:35.320]  You said yes, sir. With a licensed investigator. Is that right?
[01:34:35.320 --> 01:34:40.320]  I used to work with private investigators. I now work for a local law firm.
[01:34:40.320 --> 01:34:46.320]  Oh, OK. Well, might be some way you could do this, but I have a couple of other names that maybe work through.
[01:34:46.320 --> 01:34:55.320]  But kind of find like an investigator that could look into a name as being an alias for some body else.
[01:34:55.320 --> 01:35:01.320]  OK. It's a case that got his court here and they brought affidavit in and.
[01:35:01.320 --> 01:35:05.320]  Yeah. Yeah, I'm here. I'm listening.
[01:35:05.320 --> 01:35:16.320]  They brought affidavit in and not to check in the name, not finding too much on that name on its own.
[01:35:16.320 --> 01:35:21.320]  Let's not give any of that information out over there.
[01:35:21.320 --> 01:35:28.320]  OK, I won't give names. OK, good. You know, I figured you're smarter than that.
[01:35:28.320 --> 01:35:33.320]  But, you know, who really provides the information for something like that?
[01:35:33.320 --> 01:35:44.320]  And but then this one site I went to it listed that as an alias for this other name, along with a few other aliases.
[01:35:44.320 --> 01:35:48.320]  Yeah, I wouldn't trust a whole lot of what you find publicly on the Internet.
[01:35:48.320 --> 01:35:55.320]  If you're looking for something legal, then you need it from a source that's that's credible and the Internet is not very credible.
[01:35:55.320 --> 01:36:01.320]  Now, the antithesis to that Wikipedia quotes are now admissible as evidence in court.
[01:36:01.320 --> 01:36:10.320]  So that being said, if you want to contact me off air in regard to that, then I might be able to help you with that.
[01:36:10.320 --> 01:36:35.320]  And you can contact me at Steve underscore Skidmore, S-K-I-D-M-O-R-E-N. Steve is with a V, not a P-H.
[01:36:35.320 --> 01:36:46.320]  And I'll I'll get to shoot me what you need and I'll get back with you because I've got resources at my disposal.
[01:36:46.320 --> 01:36:52.320]  OK, I thought you might and I thought something interesting to talk about again in a later day.
[01:36:52.320 --> 01:36:56.320]  Absolutely. And if you want to call me, I don't mind giving my number out over the air.
[01:36:56.320 --> 01:37:05.320]  I do appreciate my my private life, but if anybody wants to contact me, I can be contacted directly at 512.
[01:37:05.320 --> 01:37:17.320]  You got a pencil, Danny? OK. Five, one, two. Seven, six, one. One double seven.
[01:37:17.320 --> 01:37:29.320]  OK. Oh, one little thing about your website in there, you got a link for somebody to send in things like for documents or some kind of information and another link to.
[01:37:29.320 --> 01:37:42.320]  Yes, there's there's on the on the contact page, there are, I think, four different set up, four different parameters on four.
[01:37:42.320 --> 01:37:51.320]  Identify your website for everybody. I was just going to on prosayforeclosure.wordpress.com.
[01:37:51.320 --> 01:37:59.320]  The reason I did this is because I kind of anticipated people having different reasons to contact me.
[01:37:59.320 --> 01:38:07.320]  And I kind of write those reasons in a priority and try to fit them into my my everyday schedule.
[01:38:07.320 --> 01:38:12.320]  So if it's just a general contact. Don't expect an immediate answer.
[01:38:12.320 --> 01:38:21.320]  If you if you need help with something and you need help now, I've got a link for that or it's basically the same link.
[01:38:21.320 --> 01:38:30.320]  It just comes in and different priorities when I check my mail, but you can click anything there and and send me an email.
[01:38:30.320 --> 01:38:40.320]  I'll get it. OK, well, I was going to say is when I clicked one one, it looked like what I was expected to go to and I clicked the next one.
[01:38:40.320 --> 01:38:45.320]  It went to the same form again. Yes. Yes.
[01:38:45.320 --> 01:38:52.320]  That's OK. I've got one email server, but I've got four different priority settings.
[01:38:52.320 --> 01:39:01.320]  If someone would like to suggest something that I write an article about, they can click click that one.
[01:39:01.320 --> 01:39:11.320]  I'm not on my website right now, but you can click that and that will give when I when somebody has a priority issue.
[01:39:11.320 --> 01:39:21.320]  When I get the email, I can see the priority. If this is somebody that I need to contact right now, I'll contact them right now.
[01:39:21.320 --> 01:39:29.320]  OK, but if it's just a general thing, you know where the babies come from, you know, it's that's going on the back burner.
[01:39:29.320 --> 01:39:35.320]  OK, I just thought maybe I was in here because both of them went. OK, we need to move on anywhere.
[01:39:35.320 --> 01:39:41.320]  Yeah. All right. See you all next time. Bye. Thank you, Danny.
[01:39:41.320 --> 01:39:53.320]  Now let's go to Francis in Colorado. Francis, good evening. And what do you have for us, my dear?
[01:39:53.320 --> 01:40:01.320]  Hello, Francis. Hey, I'm there. There you go. You put your phone down, didn't you?
[01:40:01.320 --> 01:40:11.320]  No, it decided to die on me. My batteries are. Do you need to call back? No, I'm good. I'm on a corded phone.
[01:40:11.320 --> 01:40:17.320]  OK, good deal. What do you got for us tonight? OK, so I just think that a smoke's getting blown up my skirt a little bit.
[01:40:17.320 --> 01:40:24.320]  And I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. I filed a criminal complaint in South Dakota on the deal with my mother in law.
[01:40:24.320 --> 01:40:31.320]  And so it went from the city attorney. The cops blew it off. The cops told me that I needed to get it out of their jurisdiction.
[01:40:31.320 --> 01:40:38.320]  There was nothing they could do. Stop. Because it's a lead judge. Yes. Stop. Who's the complaint against?
[01:40:38.320 --> 01:40:43.320]  Generally not specific. The court.
[01:40:43.320 --> 01:40:52.320]  What I'm saying is don't mention names, but but who are we talking about? My mother in law has Alzheimer's, so she's a protected person.
[01:40:52.320 --> 01:41:00.320]  Understood. And OK, so we have a conservator involved and the conservator is an attorney, but she also has an attorney.
[01:41:00.320 --> 01:41:09.320]  She's an employee of a bank. We have an attorney that lacked agency, but stepped up and got, I don't know,
[01:41:09.320 --> 01:41:16.320]  somewhere around fifty thousand dollars of my mother in law's money. And and so we've got those people.
[01:41:16.320 --> 01:41:22.320]  And then we've got the conservator herself challenged the guardian.
[01:41:22.320 --> 01:41:25.320]  And there's no standing for the conservator to challenge the guardian.
[01:41:25.320 --> 01:41:33.320]  But she hired herself an attorney to challenge the guardian, which there is also no standing to do that.
[01:41:33.320 --> 01:41:42.320]  Have you have you raised this as an issue in form of written pleadings submitted to the court?
[01:41:42.320 --> 01:41:47.320]  Absolutely. We've been fighting this for 11 months trying to get her to Colorado.
[01:41:47.320 --> 01:41:54.320]  They want her to come to Colorado. So what we have now is we've descended into nursing home abuse.
[01:41:54.320 --> 01:41:59.320]  They're being investigated. What does she want?
[01:41:59.320 --> 01:42:05.320]  Has anybody considered that? What does she want? Yeah. Well, she she wants to come to Colorado.
[01:42:05.320 --> 01:42:12.320]  But the attorney that lacked agency and the conservator, they go over to the nursing home, rough her up and then go to the court and say,
[01:42:12.320 --> 01:42:19.320]  oh, she wants to maybe visit. And they mess her all up and say, do you want to go to California instead of Colorado?
[01:42:19.320 --> 01:42:23.320]  And she arrived in Denver. We went and got her. She arrived at 84 pounds.
[01:42:23.320 --> 01:42:27.320]  She's five foot seven. Her bottom teeth, because she grinds them when she's upset.
[01:42:27.320 --> 01:42:32.320]  They're completely broken off, decayed and ground down to the gums.
[01:42:32.320 --> 01:42:39.320]  And she had clothing that that was just absolutely neglect because we live so far away.
[01:42:39.320 --> 01:42:43.320]  We can't go in. My husband worked so much overtime. He can't go and see her all the time.
[01:42:43.320 --> 01:42:48.320]  So the guardian needs to be where the person is. The person needs to be where the guardian is.
[01:42:48.320 --> 01:42:51.320]  And he had an older brother who passed away last July.
[01:42:51.320 --> 01:42:56.320]  And so when he died, there wasn't anybody to check in on her and make sure things were OK.
[01:42:56.320 --> 01:43:06.320]  So this conservator and this other attorney who claimed to be her attorney failed to prove agency last October.
[01:43:06.320 --> 01:43:13.320]  I was just going to ask how. OK, I take it your mother.
[01:43:13.320 --> 01:43:17.320]  Is this mother or mother in law? Mother in law.
[01:43:17.320 --> 01:43:27.320]  OK, I take it your mother in law is not is no longer in the capacity to make rational decisions.
[01:43:27.320 --> 01:43:33.320]  That's as gently as I can put that. Yes, she has pretty advanced Alzheimer's.
[01:43:33.320 --> 01:43:38.320]  There's days when she's better. But my husband had durable power of attorney, but then went for guardianship and conservatorship.
[01:43:38.320 --> 01:43:42.320]  And that's when we went down the rabbit hole. OK, let's stop right there.
[01:43:42.320 --> 01:43:47.320]  We've got her coming up to a break. We'll pick up at the rabbit hole on the other side of this, folks.
[01:43:47.320 --> 01:43:50.320]  Five, one, two, six, four, six. Nineteen eighty four is number two.
[01:43:50.320 --> 01:43:53.320]  If you'd like to join us in conversation. Stay tuned.
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[01:45:58.320 --> 01:46:05.320]  Eight six six law easy.
[01:46:05.320 --> 01:46:09.320]  Well, you know, karma is around.
[01:46:09.320 --> 01:46:13.320]  You better watch.
[01:46:13.320 --> 01:46:19.320]  And you.
[01:46:19.320 --> 01:46:32.320]  Jerry.
[01:46:32.320 --> 01:46:42.320]  Welcome back to rule of law radio, folks, and when we left to break, we were still talking with Francis in Colorado.
[01:46:42.320 --> 01:46:54.320]  Francis, I hate to get you off track, but, you know, just just to kind of come up to speed, I wanted to ask a couple of foundational questions, but I think that's been satisfied.
[01:46:54.320 --> 01:47:00.320]  So your original concern was in regard to a criminal complaint that you have filed.
[01:47:00.320 --> 01:47:03.320]  Is that correct? You have filed this criminal complaint.
[01:47:03.320 --> 01:47:07.320]  Well, yes. And so we basically exhausted everything at the state court.
[01:47:07.320 --> 01:47:13.320]  The state court is just ruling in favor of the conservator and the attorneys, no matter what my husband does.
[01:47:13.320 --> 01:47:20.320]  They they refuse to reimburse him for his expenses, which means we can't afford to get an attorney and we're out of state.
[01:47:20.320 --> 01:47:28.320]  So we're posturing to go not only into the criminal, but also into the federal case, to a federal case.
[01:47:28.320 --> 01:47:30.320]  But anyway, how do you get.
[01:47:30.320 --> 01:47:37.320]  Whoa, how do you get federal? We have violations of due process.
[01:47:37.320 --> 01:47:40.320]  That's not federal, that's state.
[01:47:40.320 --> 01:47:51.320]  It is if he's in Colorado and if they denied his due process and they're in North Dakota or South Dakota.
[01:47:51.320 --> 01:48:00.320]  OK, that would. All right. That would constitute that. Yeah, that would invoke a diversity of jurisdiction if he had a provable claim. Yeah, I get it.
[01:48:00.320 --> 01:48:12.320]  OK, he does. And then they've they've also now the conservator has indebted him for bills for his mother and has violated the federal consumer fair credit.
[01:48:12.320 --> 01:48:18.320]  They've just gone straight to judgment. There were no bills. He had no contracts. I've got the debt validation letters out on that.
[01:48:18.320 --> 01:48:22.320]  And there's also a family right. Forty two.
[01:48:22.320 --> 01:48:28.320]  Debt validation letters would invoke the federal FDCPA as well.
[01:48:28.320 --> 01:48:34.320]  OK. And so anyway, but back to the criminal.
[01:48:34.320 --> 01:48:41.320]  So I, I didn't do it exactly. I hadn't gotten it all the way down to where I needed to get it for the attorney general.
[01:48:41.320 --> 01:48:49.320]  But when we moved her, Galen just went up there and got her. She was just she was languishing. She's you know, we don't have long.
[01:48:49.320 --> 01:48:57.320]  She doesn't have long. She's you know, you never know when they're 87, 88 years old and they've got the Alzheimer's and you know, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:48:57.320 --> 01:49:00.320]  And she was down to eight pounds. So not eating.
[01:49:00.320 --> 01:49:12.320]  Not a good sign. And so they have they got him on a contempt of court for a temporary restraining order that was 11 months old.
[01:49:12.320 --> 01:49:20.320]  So the court's just doing whatever they want to. Pause. Pause. Randy. Pause right there.
[01:49:20.320 --> 01:49:26.320]  Yes. Do you know of any statute of limitations on a restraining order?
[01:49:26.320 --> 01:49:36.320]  A temporary restraining order can only be. That's 14 days. Right. And then you can get one more.
[01:49:36.320 --> 01:49:50.320]  A temporary restraining order is an emergency order in order to restrain someone long enough to set a hearing for a injunction.
[01:49:50.320 --> 01:49:57.320]  Correct. That be permanent, preliminary or temporary. Right. Right. They never did that.
[01:49:57.320 --> 01:50:01.320]  Well, they set a hearing and then it got vacated and they never redid it.
[01:50:01.320 --> 01:50:10.320]  And then after he was on the way here, the next actually after we got her checked in, we had her discharged by her medical doctor and admitted down here in Colorado.
[01:50:10.320 --> 01:50:21.320]  And I call the police the next day because the nursing home was just off the chain and and they didn't have any orders to restrain her from leaving.
[01:50:21.320 --> 01:50:24.320]  And it's a pay to stay place. You know, these places are pay to stay.
[01:50:24.320 --> 01:50:29.320]  So now the conservator is refusing to pay her bills here.
[01:50:29.320 --> 01:50:38.320]  But she has told the nursing home in Rapid City, South Dakota, to hold a room and to charge Galen, my husband.
[01:50:38.320 --> 01:50:42.320]  And they've removed him as guardian. They have no cause or anything.
[01:50:42.320 --> 01:50:46.320]  And then when I went to appeal that they kept blocking my appeal. I submitted a notice of appeal three times.
[01:50:46.320 --> 01:50:53.320]  They sent it back three times until the time it told. So they blocked us from being able to have access to the court.
[01:50:53.320 --> 01:51:04.320]  That's what your appellate system's for. Well, yes, but then the judge has said that unless he gives Galen permission to enter anything into the court,
[01:51:04.320 --> 01:51:11.320]  he can't, which is blocking of access to the court. They've removed the attorney that doesn't have agency.
[01:51:11.320 --> 01:51:17.320]  He finally bowed out and then they removed Galen as guardian. She has no guardian.
[01:51:17.320 --> 01:51:24.320]  She has no one to speak on her behalf. She is no longer really protected. And now the conservator is petitioned.
[01:51:24.320 --> 01:51:36.320]  She's become a ward of the court or a ward of the state. But the state she's in is Colorado.
[01:51:36.320 --> 01:51:40.320]  I understand. Well, now she's been moved to the state of Colorado.
[01:51:40.320 --> 01:51:45.320]  And of course, no attorney down here will touch it because there's so many issues in South Dakota.
[01:51:45.320 --> 01:51:51.320]  And we had one that was interested. And as soon as she calls up to South Dakota, she calls over here and says, no, she won't take the case.
[01:51:51.320 --> 01:51:57.320]  So she didn't want to have anything to do with it. She's young and she doesn't want her bar card pulled, of course.
[01:51:57.320 --> 01:52:06.320]  And these judges. And kudos to her for admitting even tacitly her inexperience.
[01:52:06.320 --> 01:52:16.320]  That's good. It's it's good to know when you're in something over your head and when something is outside your your area of comprehension.
[01:52:16.320 --> 01:52:22.320]  So I would give kudos to this attorney. She's doing she knows what she's doing, Steve.
[01:52:22.320 --> 01:52:30.320]  But she and she had actually worked for this attorney. I mean, for this judge that hears all these guardianship and conservatorship cases.
[01:52:30.320 --> 01:52:36.320]  And because there's no guardian at this point, Galen was going to apply to have the guardian down here.
[01:52:36.320 --> 01:52:45.320]  He was removed without cause up there. He was removed because he was fighting the conservator who wanted to told him back in September of last year.
[01:52:45.320 --> 01:52:52.320]  That he could have his mother if if the conservator could have her money.
[01:52:52.320 --> 01:53:03.320]  She told him that over the telephone. And so when so they're not interested in the in the the body, they're interested in the revenue generated.
[01:53:03.320 --> 01:53:10.320]  That's right. And when they removed when they removed Galen as guardian and they also removed,
[01:53:10.320 --> 01:53:16.320]  which I understand you can't do, there's no voluntary giving up of the durable power of attorney,
[01:53:16.320 --> 01:53:21.320]  which Galen had that Joyce gave him that his mother gave him. They can't remove.
[01:53:21.320 --> 01:53:29.320]  The court can't even remove that without going through quite a process because that kicks in when she lacks capacity.
[01:53:29.320 --> 01:53:34.320]  And they did that anyway. So we sent a letter and said, fine, you have what you want.
[01:53:34.320 --> 01:53:42.320]  Give us Joyce. Give give me my mother. And they came back and all of a sudden the guardian has magical powers and only the guardian can move the person.
[01:53:42.320 --> 01:53:48.320]  But they would never. We filed two different notice, a notice and a petition to move the person.
[01:53:48.320 --> 01:53:53.320]  And they just simply would change the hearing to a status hearing or refused to hear those.
[01:53:53.320 --> 01:54:00.320]  So they refused to hear moving. So, I mean, it's really it's very corrupt and whatever.
[01:54:00.320 --> 01:54:07.320]  So I sent a criminal complaint and I didn't have it all bumped out like you all told me yet, because I mean, we we had to move her.
[01:54:07.320 --> 01:54:11.320]  That was, you know, it's like all of a sudden she had to come to Colorado. So I filed.
[01:54:11.320 --> 01:54:15.320]  OK, so let's let's come forward to where we're at right now.
[01:54:15.320 --> 01:54:24.320]  And then get to what what's the issue at at this moment?
[01:54:24.320 --> 01:54:35.320]  OK, so the city attorney passed it to the state attorney and the chief of police and the state attorney and the chief of police are telling Galen and I that this is a civil case and not a criminal case.
[01:54:35.320 --> 01:54:41.320]  But I haven't found any statutes that aren't criminal. Elder abuse is criminal.
[01:54:41.320 --> 01:54:47.320]  Elder financial exploitation is a felony, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:54:47.320 --> 01:54:53.320]  Miss prison a felony. There was theft of her money that was reported to the court and nobody has reported that to the police.
[01:54:53.320 --> 01:55:00.320]  And all of that. So are they blowing smoke? And I just keep moving forward and put this thing into the hands of the attorney general at this point.
[01:55:00.320 --> 01:55:09.320]  They're blowing smoke. Yeah, they're blowing a big job. OK, so they're just blowing smoke and it is and it is criminal.
[01:55:09.320 --> 01:55:14.320]  Absolutely. You made a criminal accusation. That's criminal.
[01:55:14.320 --> 01:55:21.320]  And they have to act on the accusation. You might look at the South Dakota.
[01:55:21.320 --> 01:55:33.320]  Yes. South Dakota Code of Criminal Procedure or rules of they've got a they've got a criminal procedure code in South Dakota of some type.
[01:55:33.320 --> 01:55:40.320]  Look at it. Did you hear the first part of the show where we were talking about all of that?
[01:55:40.320 --> 01:55:48.320]  It's going to be similar in South Dakota and go back, go after the prosecutor.
[01:55:48.320 --> 01:55:54.320]  OK. He didn't want to do his job. Wonderful. Now we go for him.
[01:55:54.320 --> 01:55:59.320]  And now he gets and gets you after him for trying to protect these other guys.
[01:55:59.320 --> 01:56:08.320]  He's more political because he's elected. So now you file against him with a district judge or the attorney general,
[01:56:08.320 --> 01:56:13.320]  where you want to go to since you've had so much trouble with the district courts.
[01:56:13.320 --> 01:56:24.320]  That goes straight to the attorney general. And when the attorney. OK. Does the attorney general in South Dakota have prosecutorial authority?
[01:56:24.320 --> 01:56:30.320]  Then one filed the filed the complaint against the district attorney with the attorney general.
[01:56:30.320 --> 01:56:39.320]  And when the attorney general doesn't act, file against the attorney general with the chief justice of the Supreme in his capacity as a magistrate.
[01:56:39.320 --> 01:56:48.320]  And when he doesn't act, then filed against the chief justice of the Supreme with one of the appeals justices,
[01:56:48.320 --> 01:56:55.320]  one of the one of the appeals court judge. Just pass this thing around. Get everybody's name on it.
[01:56:55.320 --> 01:57:10.320]  And then since she's now in Colorado, if they're still holding money that belongs to her,
[01:57:10.320 --> 01:57:25.320]  file against him in Colorado criminally and then sue him in the federal court, drag him to Colorado.
[01:57:25.320 --> 01:57:44.320]  And you might look at a RICO suit. It's it's inappropriate to presume that this level of corruption can occur in isolation.
[01:57:44.320 --> 01:57:49.320]  You might consider they're doing this to everybody.
[01:57:49.320 --> 01:57:55.320]  So it's hard to believe that it could get to this whether you've got a chief judge and you've got and we're at this point,
[01:57:55.320 --> 01:57:58.320]  I'm not even sure how we got a conservator. The judge may have it.
[01:57:58.320 --> 01:58:10.320]  It's it's not so uncommon. I have found through research that most family courts in all 50 states are some of the most corrupt,
[01:58:10.320 --> 01:58:23.320]  the most misguided, those without moral or spiritual compass reside in the family courts that I'm talking about the bench.
[01:58:23.320 --> 01:58:40.320]  But where, Francis, we're going to excuse me, we're fixing to go to break 512646 1984 is number dial. We're coming to the top. They are break. And Francis, do you have anything else? Right quick.
[01:58:40.320 --> 01:58:46.320]  I just have a foreclosure issue about why a bank would pay double for. OK, OK, we'll come back to you on the other side of this break.
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