ROL_2014-06-06_16k_Hr3-4.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:07.720]  This is The Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates, online
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[00:08.720 --> 00:13.720]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Friday, June 6, 2014.
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[00:43.680 --> 00:48.440]  In the news, the Los Angeles Police Department acquired two drones this week, enabling them
[00:48.440 --> 00:53.880]  to move closer towards using drones for manhunts, standoffs, and other tactical events.
[00:53.880 --> 00:57.800]  The drones were given to LAPD, free of charge, from the Seattle Police Department.
[00:57.800 --> 01:02.000]  Each remote-controlled copter is about three feet in width, has three rotors, and is equipped
[01:02.000 --> 01:03.880]  to carry a video camera.
[01:03.880 --> 01:09.880]  CBS reports the FAA must grant the LAPD with a certificate to use the drone.
[01:09.880 --> 01:16.760]  The application process is still in the preliminary stages.
[01:16.760 --> 01:21.960]  A 14-year-old female San Marcos student confided in her parents as she was asked how far she
[01:21.960 --> 01:25.640]  was willing to go sexually during a sex education lesson.
[01:25.640 --> 01:29.840]  Woodland Park Middle School reportedly asked students to stand under signs labeled, smiled
[01:29.840 --> 01:33.960]  at, hugged, kissed, above the waist, below the waist, and all the way.
[01:33.960 --> 01:37.000]  That's according to a report from 10 News.
[01:37.000 --> 01:41.040]  School officials defended the dating lesson, saying the goal was to discuss what is appropriate
[01:41.040 --> 01:43.480]  for dating at the middle school level.
[01:43.480 --> 01:46.720]  Students felt embarrassed because they thought the teacher wanted to know how far each would
[01:46.720 --> 01:47.720]  go sexually.
[01:47.720 --> 01:55.800]  The school's principal says the lesson has been in use for several years now.
[01:55.800 --> 01:59.840]  Pakistani officials are calling CIA drone strikes illegal and a criminal act that needs
[01:59.840 --> 02:01.360]  to be investigated.
[02:01.360 --> 02:05.440]  On Thursday, a Pakistani court ordered police to investigate murder allegations against
[02:05.440 --> 02:08.360]  senior CIA officer Jonathan Banks.
[02:08.360 --> 02:12.400]  Human rights campaigners say the move opens up the doorway for other cases to be brought
[02:12.400 --> 02:14.440]  against the U.S.
[02:14.440 --> 02:17.760]  Drone strikes show more than 60% of drone strikes target private homes in the middle
[02:17.760 --> 02:21.200]  of the night, often killing innocent families in their sleep.
[02:21.200 --> 02:24.720]  On Wednesday night, a U.S. drone strike killed three men in Yemen.
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[03:14.760 --> 03:37.240]  Welcome back to Rural Law Radio, folks.
[03:37.240 --> 03:41.080]  We're going to go to Francis in Colorado.
[03:41.080 --> 03:42.080]  Hello, Francis.
[03:42.080 --> 03:43.080]  My dear, how are you?
[03:43.080 --> 03:45.080]  Hi, Steve.
[03:45.080 --> 03:46.080]  I'm good.
[03:46.080 --> 03:47.080]  How are you?
[03:47.080 --> 03:48.080]  I'm ugly.
[03:48.080 --> 03:49.080]  But you know what?
[03:49.080 --> 03:50.080]  My wife still lets me in the house.
[03:50.080 --> 03:51.080]  I'm not even house-broke, either.
[03:51.080 --> 03:52.080]  Wow.
[03:52.080 --> 03:53.080]  Well...
[03:53.080 --> 03:54.080]  It abases me.
[03:54.080 --> 03:55.080]  Patience of job, I guess.
[03:55.080 --> 03:56.080]  Well, hey, the only thing I...
[03:56.080 --> 03:57.080]  Well, I have a question.
[03:57.080 --> 03:58.080]  But according to the last caller...
[03:58.080 --> 03:59.080]  Yes, ma'am?
[03:59.080 --> 04:00.080]  I know he's doing a 13.
[04:00.080 --> 04:01.080]  Yes.
[04:01.080 --> 04:02.080]  He needs to be careful.
[04:02.080 --> 04:17.480]  And if you work for a law firm, you probably know better than I do, but in a 7, if you file
[04:17.480 --> 04:22.760]  any case during the time period that your case is open for 180 days, all of that then
[04:22.760 --> 04:26.440]  belongs to the trustee, and it's the trustee you have standing and not you.
[04:26.440 --> 04:27.440]  Correct.
[04:27.440 --> 04:32.240]  So you have to be careful about that, at least with the 7.
[04:32.240 --> 04:38.680]  And my trustee has been bribed, so we go to court over some stuff that...
[04:38.680 --> 04:45.240]  They let go of my house, the property case, but they're still jacking around with inheritance
[04:45.240 --> 04:52.520]  that I didn't surrender when we saw the case, a challenge to a last-minute will, and that
[04:52.520 --> 04:53.520]  my brother did.
[04:53.520 --> 04:58.640]  My brother took lots of money and came out here and has been paying for the trustee to
[04:58.640 --> 04:59.640]  fight me.
[04:59.640 --> 05:00.640]  So it's the ugly thing.
[05:00.640 --> 05:04.580]  So I'd be real careful with those trustees, just never depend...
[05:04.580 --> 05:08.200]  You never know on whatever's going on.
[05:08.200 --> 05:09.200]  But anyway...
[05:09.200 --> 05:11.920]  So you're post foreclosure, right, Frances?
[05:11.920 --> 05:12.920]  You know what, Mike?
[05:12.920 --> 05:15.120]  My foreclosure had to be reopened.
[05:15.120 --> 05:16.120]  Okay.
[05:16.120 --> 05:18.920]  So how mine went was I filed...
[05:18.920 --> 05:21.160]  We filed two years ago in April.
[05:21.160 --> 05:22.160]  Right.
[05:22.160 --> 05:27.320]  And we were fighting for the house, and our bankruptcy attorney didn't agree with it.
[05:27.320 --> 05:30.560]  I was pro se at the time, working with Randy.
[05:30.560 --> 05:35.320]  And so he would scream and yell, and of course, you know, it's not the kind of thing I want
[05:35.320 --> 05:36.320]  to go in.
[05:36.320 --> 05:38.680]  It's just like, no, give me a glass of water and let me just talk, but we'll just...
[05:38.680 --> 05:41.520]  So I just stopped talking to him about the house.
[05:41.520 --> 05:46.120]  But we had a RESPA case in the federal court at the time.
[05:46.120 --> 05:49.560]  And so I thought it was a little odd, but I didn't ask enough questions because I'd
[05:49.560 --> 05:53.920]  been yelled at him by too many times over the house thing.
[05:53.920 --> 06:02.360]  And so he put the federal case on the Statement of Financial Affairs, and then he didn't put
[06:02.360 --> 06:07.160]  it on the Schedule F. And so everyone was figuring that I was going to lose.
[06:07.160 --> 06:08.160]  And then he had...
[06:08.160 --> 06:09.160]  This is...
[06:09.160 --> 06:10.160]  Wait a minute.
[06:10.160 --> 06:11.160]  This is the attorney that didn't?
[06:11.160 --> 06:12.160]  Yes.
[06:12.160 --> 06:13.160]  The attorney did not.
[06:13.160 --> 06:14.160]  Okay.
[06:14.160 --> 06:21.760]  So then when we went to the 341 hearing where the creditors come in, none of the creditors
[06:21.760 --> 06:29.120]  came in on our case, and he told the trustee that we were going to just walk away from
[06:29.120 --> 06:32.560]  the house, which wasn't true, but I didn't know at the time that it was going to make
[06:32.560 --> 06:33.560]  any difference.
[06:33.560 --> 06:34.560]  Okay.
[06:34.560 --> 06:35.560]  Good God.
[06:35.560 --> 06:42.720]  So the offshoot of all of this is that the other thing that he...
[06:42.720 --> 06:47.760]  And this could have been an honest mistake, but when you've got somebody who's fighting,
[06:47.760 --> 06:48.760]  you should say something.
[06:48.760 --> 06:49.760]  So anyway...
[06:49.760 --> 06:53.560]  There's a fine line, Francis.
[06:53.560 --> 06:57.720]  There's a fine line between an honest mistake and malpractice.
[06:57.720 --> 06:59.080]  Right.
[06:59.080 --> 07:03.000]  And I think we're at malpractice with this guy, but right now I'm just trying to get
[07:03.000 --> 07:04.000]  through.
[07:04.000 --> 07:10.720]  They've abandoned the house, and I got them to abandon the bankruptcy court.
[07:10.720 --> 07:16.200]  So what happened was I filed a case in the district court for unlawful foreclosure during
[07:16.200 --> 07:21.680]  the 180-day period in September 2012.
[07:21.680 --> 07:23.280]  And so I did...
[07:23.280 --> 07:25.280]  You're not challenging title?
[07:25.280 --> 07:31.480]  Well, this is what we were challenging at the time, was unlawful foreclosure, but we
[07:31.480 --> 07:33.040]  were already post foreclosure.
[07:33.040 --> 07:35.120]  We were still in the house.
[07:35.120 --> 07:40.400]  And that then became the property of the trustee, unbeknownst to me, and one of the people that
[07:40.400 --> 07:47.000]  was the foreclosure mill, they shot back at me and challenged my standing, that the bankruptcy
[07:47.000 --> 07:48.160]  trustee had standing.
[07:48.160 --> 07:52.040]  And I went right to the bankruptcy attorney and said, what is this and what are they talking
[07:52.040 --> 07:53.040]  about?
[07:53.040 --> 07:55.240]  And he came back and said, yes, that's right.
[07:55.240 --> 07:59.160]  And he decided he wasn't going to deal with the property, it was beyond the scope of what
[07:59.160 --> 08:00.160]  he was hired for.
[08:00.160 --> 08:05.600]  So he sent me some examples of motions to reopen, which I filed at the end.
[08:05.600 --> 08:07.880]  And the case had just closed.
[08:07.880 --> 08:12.440]  So my case closed on the 5th of December, and this was on the 28th of December, that
[08:12.440 --> 08:15.240]  I filed our motion to reopen.
[08:15.240 --> 08:17.960]  So that was sitting there.
[08:17.960 --> 08:25.280]  But prior to that, we had gone through the eviction process in the court.
[08:25.280 --> 08:29.280]  I can't remember the name of that, unlawful detainer.
[08:29.280 --> 08:31.800]  And so they ruled against us.
[08:31.800 --> 08:35.320]  And so I was shot down because my seven was closed.
[08:35.320 --> 08:39.280]  I shot down to bankruptcy court and filed a 13 to get the 30-day stay, because it was
[08:39.280 --> 08:43.920]  Christmas time.
[08:43.920 --> 08:47.640]  But the other thing that I had done during this court period, and I wasn't taught during
[08:47.640 --> 08:52.680]  the 180-day period, was that I wasn't thinking about, was I had filed, my sister and I had
[08:52.680 --> 08:58.840]  filed a challenge to this last-minute will, which was completely done.
[08:58.840 --> 09:03.680]  I filed a bar grievance against the attorney that did it and found that he never even met
[09:03.680 --> 09:04.680]  my dad.
[09:04.680 --> 09:08.880]  He only dealt with my brother, and the new will gave my mother everything and my brother
[09:08.880 --> 09:13.280]  control of everything, and left out my sister completely.
[09:13.280 --> 09:20.040]  And so the bankruptcy attorney had both the new will and the old will and the new trust.
[09:20.040 --> 09:25.660]  He read through them and could see that I wasn't going to get anything in the 180 days.
[09:25.660 --> 09:30.280]  But he didn't disclose any of that to the trustee.
[09:30.280 --> 09:34.440]  And then he didn't say to me, if you file a case, it belongs to the trustee.
[09:34.440 --> 09:38.640]  If you file a case during the 180 days, it belongs to the trustee.
[09:38.640 --> 09:43.440]  And he also didn't say to me, regarding the property, if you ever do anything with the
[09:43.440 --> 09:48.680]  property, you just gave your property up in the 341 hearing, and you're done.
[09:48.680 --> 09:52.960]  He didn't say that to me, because I was going to continue to fight, and did.
[09:52.960 --> 09:59.340]  So what ended up happening, you guys, was that I went down, I did my 341 in the 13,
[09:59.340 --> 10:04.520]  and then filed a notice, a motion to dismiss the case without prejudice.
[10:04.520 --> 10:08.840]  And still in the house, and so then I went down.
[10:08.840 --> 10:15.080]  They called a hearing on it, because the Chapter 13 trustee wanted to dismiss with prejudice.
[10:15.080 --> 10:17.560]  And I stood in front of the judge.
[10:17.560 --> 10:21.720]  And I said to him, I didn't know what I was supposed to do, and I figured out that I probably,
[10:21.720 --> 10:27.120]  if I needed to surrender the one case, I needed to surrender my dad's probate case, too.
[10:27.120 --> 10:31.720]  And I asked the judge right there in the court on the record, do I need to surrender that
[10:31.720 --> 10:32.720]  case as well?
[10:32.720 --> 10:33.720]  And he told me what to do.
[10:33.720 --> 10:39.960]  He dismissed the 13 without prejudice, and I amended my motion to reopen the very next
[10:39.960 --> 10:40.960]  day.
[10:40.960 --> 10:49.000]  And he, the judge reopened my bankruptcy case on March the 13th of 2013, and it is still
[10:49.000 --> 10:51.080]  open to this day.
[10:51.080 --> 10:57.720]  And what was surrendered to the court was the probate case on my dad's, that case, and
[10:57.720 --> 11:03.840]  the property issues, and a case that was outside of the 180 days that I had just found out
[11:03.840 --> 11:09.920]  about the very same people, my mother, brother, and sister-in-law, stole my money and my sister's
[11:09.920 --> 11:14.840]  money and my uncle's money out of an inheritance from an aunt in North Carolina.
[11:14.840 --> 11:19.600]  And the judge said, surrender them all, because I was concerned that my uncle was very ill,
[11:19.600 --> 11:23.720]  and I didn't want them to hang up because, anything to get hung up because of my bankruptcy.
[11:23.720 --> 11:30.580]  And he said, surrender them all, the trustee will have to abandon the case in North Carolina
[11:30.580 --> 11:33.160]  because it's out of time.
[11:33.160 --> 11:35.920]  And then, you know, then he'll make the decisions on the other.
[11:35.920 --> 11:36.920]  So...
[11:36.920 --> 11:39.920]  Did you get that in writing?
[11:39.920 --> 11:42.200]  Well, it's on the record.
[11:42.200 --> 11:43.200]  I had the transcript.
[11:43.200 --> 11:44.200]  Perfect.
[11:44.200 --> 11:45.200]  You got it in writing.
[11:45.200 --> 11:51.800]  But, well, yeah, so, and then he said that, you know, that these probate issues are state
[11:51.800 --> 11:56.240]  issues, and those have to be decided by the state, and the probate, the trustee wouldn't
[11:56.240 --> 12:00.880]  want to deal with it because it's a big, nasty, hairy fight to fight over a probate and get
[12:00.880 --> 12:03.400]  involved in families and such.
[12:03.400 --> 12:11.320]  What actually happened was nothing for over six months, and then we finally got some stuff
[12:11.320 --> 12:18.000]  out of the probate case, and we realized that my brother had, as personal representative,
[12:18.000 --> 12:21.800]  which he is no longer, had come out, for my dad's estate, had come out to Colorado and
[12:21.800 --> 12:26.740]  hired a bankruptcy attorney on behalf of my father's estate.
[12:26.740 --> 12:31.200]  And he got the trustee to do absolutely nothing.
[12:31.200 --> 12:32.200]  Nothing happened.
[12:32.200 --> 12:37.280]  I sent all the documentation, all the explanation, all the wills, everything, so that he could
[12:37.280 --> 12:43.540]  review it and decide whether or not he wanted to pursue it or if he wanted to abandon it.
[12:43.540 --> 12:49.040]  And my understanding is, and always has been, from the attorney that didn't properly inform
[12:49.040 --> 12:58.800]  me, that if I, as the bankruptcy debtor, the iris state, cannot fund the trustee to fuel
[12:58.800 --> 13:04.880]  that fight on any of these cases, most generally, they abandon them and let you do whatever
[13:04.880 --> 13:07.760]  you're going to do with them.
[13:07.760 --> 13:14.440]  And so they just finally abandoned the case in North Carolina and the property case, and
[13:14.440 --> 13:20.080]  I got my standing back on the 19th of February, nearly a year later.
[13:20.080 --> 13:21.080]  Very untimely.
[13:21.080 --> 13:23.400]  The rules do not allow a trustee to do nothing.
[13:23.400 --> 13:28.040]  They have to either take up the case or abandon the case.
[13:28.040 --> 13:32.040]  And the thing with my dad's case is still open.
[13:32.040 --> 13:38.880]  And they are still fighting, and what they have done is I filed a motion to compel, after
[13:38.880 --> 13:43.520]  calling in one Friday night, I filed a motion to compel the trustee to make a decision.
[13:43.520 --> 13:50.040]  And the trustee lawyered up instantly, not at my expense, at my brother's, evidently.
[13:50.040 --> 13:52.240]  And then they've been fighting ever since.
[13:52.240 --> 13:56.880]  I was fighting and got the two cases released, and then I've had to hire a very expensive
[13:56.880 --> 14:03.640]  attorney, and basically nearly out of money again, and they were-
[14:03.640 --> 14:05.880]  How can we help you today, Frances?
[14:05.880 --> 14:11.120]  Oh, I need to know what your post foreclosure remedy is, because we're beyond that.
[14:11.120 --> 14:12.880]  I've got all your documentation.
[14:12.880 --> 14:13.880]  Correct.
[14:13.880 --> 14:14.880]  All right.
[14:14.880 --> 14:24.200]  If I were in your shoes for post foreclosure, I would be looking at federal slander of title,
[14:24.200 --> 14:28.640]  going for damages, if I were in your shoes.
[14:28.640 --> 14:30.080]  Slander of title?
[14:30.080 --> 14:31.080]  Correct.
[14:31.080 --> 14:37.320]  If you could give me a call next week, or give Damien a call at her office, where we
[14:37.320 --> 14:45.960]  could speak to you off the record, all right, and you could call us at 888-491-3741.
[14:45.960 --> 14:50.800]  We could go into detail after the specifics of your case.
[14:50.800 --> 14:54.480]  I just don't want to do your case over the air right now, because we still have a bunch
[14:54.480 --> 14:57.760]  of callers that have been trying to get through.
[14:57.760 --> 15:02.160]  But I understand right where you're at, and yes, post foreclosure would be a great place
[15:02.160 --> 15:06.560]  to go, again, for federal going for damages.
[15:06.560 --> 15:07.560]  Okay.
[15:07.560 --> 15:09.080]  Well, now let me tell you this.
[15:09.080 --> 15:15.440]  On the state, on the district level, that little unlawful foreclosure case, the judge
[15:15.440 --> 15:20.960]  dismissed everybody except for one person out of that case, and I took it down to the
[15:20.960 --> 15:23.720]  appeals court, and they pushed it back, because it wasn't right for appeals.
[15:23.720 --> 15:26.560]  That one person is the notary.
[15:26.560 --> 15:33.520]  She has never responded into that case in 19 months, and so we filed last Tuesday, I
[15:33.520 --> 15:34.520]  believe it was.
[15:34.520 --> 15:36.200]  Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[15:36.200 --> 15:37.200]  The notary.
[15:37.200 --> 15:44.560]  Was this the notary who verified documents for the representative of the bank?
[15:44.560 --> 15:50.600]  Yeah, when we weren't there and didn't meet us, we didn't witness our signatures, didn't
[15:50.600 --> 15:51.600]  check her.
[15:51.600 --> 15:54.280]  Yeah, that's the one on the default.
[15:54.280 --> 15:55.280]  Okay.
[15:55.280 --> 16:01.480]  Yeah, so she, so we've asked for a no answer default judgment and a declaratory judgment
[16:01.480 --> 16:07.040]  on the invalidating the deed of trust.
[16:07.040 --> 16:11.560]  That's where I am with that one, and Joe, I don't know if that will help us or not.
[16:11.560 --> 16:13.120]  Okay.
[16:13.120 --> 16:14.760]  But I'll call you on Monday.
[16:14.760 --> 16:15.760]  Oh, definitely.
[16:15.760 --> 16:16.760]  Yes.
[16:16.760 --> 16:17.760]  All right.
[16:17.760 --> 16:18.880]  Give us a call during the day.
[16:18.880 --> 16:19.880]  Anytime, Francis.
[16:19.880 --> 16:20.880]  All right.
[16:20.880 --> 16:21.880]  All right.
[16:21.880 --> 16:22.880]  Thanks.
[16:22.880 --> 16:23.880]  All right.
[16:23.880 --> 16:24.880]  Thank you.
[16:24.880 --> 16:25.880]  Darlene in Florida.
[16:25.880 --> 16:26.880]  Hang on.
[16:26.880 --> 16:29.880]  We'll be getting you next.
[16:29.880 --> 16:34.480]  Yeah, we are coming up to a break.
[16:34.480 --> 16:39.040]  We got Darlene in Florida and Joe in Illinois waiting in the wings.
[16:39.040 --> 16:46.560]  512-646-1984 is the number you can dial to join us in conversation.
[16:46.560 --> 16:47.560]  Running low on callers, folks.
[16:47.560 --> 16:51.560]  If you want to get it on the record, this would be a good time to call in.
[16:51.560 --> 16:53.600]  We'll be right back after this break, folks.
[16:53.600 --> 16:54.600]  Stay tuned.
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[19:07.760 --> 19:14.440]  Well, don't let nothing get to you.
[19:14.440 --> 19:17.640]  Only the father can give it to you.
[19:17.640 --> 19:20.760]  Don't let bad mind people hurt you.
[19:20.760 --> 19:23.080]  Until safe and get behind.
[19:23.080 --> 19:26.360]  Know what I mean, my friend?
[19:26.360 --> 19:36.520]  Trust in God, my friend, tell Him you'll probably end up calling His name once again.
[19:36.520 --> 19:40.920]  He will call you, you know, He will stay in.
[19:40.920 --> 19:48.520]  Trust in God, my friend, tell Him you'll probably end up calling His name once again.
[19:48.520 --> 19:52.520]  He will call you, you know, He will stay in.
[19:52.520 --> 19:58.360]  He is my King, man, He is everything, He is everything to me, that's why I call Him.
[19:58.360 --> 20:04.360]  I touch my knee and I pray to Him, because He is the only one who could answer Him.
[20:04.360 --> 20:07.320]  There is no business with what the King of Man says.
[20:07.320 --> 20:09.480]  Man, can you know He is leading me?
[20:09.480 --> 20:16.760]  Tell Him you'll trust in God, my friend, tell Him you'll probably end up calling His name
[20:16.760 --> 20:18.760]  once again.
[20:18.760 --> 20:22.760]  He will call you, you know, He will stay in.
[20:22.760 --> 20:25.720]  Welcome back to Rural Law Radio, folks.
[20:25.720 --> 20:27.960]  Let's go to Darlene in Florida.
[20:27.960 --> 20:29.960]  Hello, Darlene.
[20:29.960 --> 20:31.160]  What do you got for us tonight?
[20:31.160 --> 20:33.160]  What's on your mind?
[20:33.160 --> 20:41.720]  In my foreclosure case, back in September of 2013, HSBC secured a summary judgment.
[20:41.720 --> 20:47.720]  I then filed a motion for reconsideration and rehearing and a motion to vacate the summary
[20:47.720 --> 20:56.360]  judgment because I had alleged fraud and factum and misrepresentation, so the file was then
[20:56.360 --> 20:57.560]  reopened.
[20:57.560 --> 21:00.120]  Well, HSBC just ignored this.
[21:00.120 --> 21:06.200]  They proceeded to do the advertising for the sale and October 31st, they did a sale of
[21:06.200 --> 21:09.640]  the property, purchased it for $5,100.
[21:09.640 --> 21:13.000]  Did you file a list penance?
[21:13.000 --> 21:14.120]  No.
[21:14.120 --> 21:15.480]  Okay, why not?
[21:15.480 --> 21:18.600]  No, well, they didn't know.
[21:18.600 --> 21:19.320]  Okay.
[21:19.320 --> 21:20.840]  Do you know what a list penance is?
[21:21.560 --> 21:23.080]  Sure, making a lien.
[21:23.080 --> 21:23.720]  Yeah.
[21:23.720 --> 21:25.880]  Well, no, no, not necessarily.
[21:26.600 --> 21:32.840]  A list penance means, a list penance is a Latin term for suit pending.
[21:34.040 --> 21:41.240]  Now, the only purpose for this is to prevent any innocent party from stepping into your
[21:41.240 --> 21:41.560]  fight.
[21:41.560 --> 21:49.960]  You don't necessarily want some unsuspecting bidder to make a bid on your property at sale
[21:50.520 --> 21:58.040]  and then find out that they, not only do they think they bought a house, they also bought
[21:58.040 --> 22:00.520]  a lawsuit to go with it.
[22:01.400 --> 22:06.040]  The list pendants is designed to prevent that.
[22:06.040 --> 22:13.400]  As a matter of fact, if there is a list pendants filed, any sale of the property, be it not
[22:13.400 --> 22:19.160]  back to a secured party is null and void, or can be, it's voidable.
[22:19.160 --> 22:21.960]  I don't want to say null and void, voidable.
[22:22.840 --> 22:23.400]  Okay.
[22:24.360 --> 22:24.920]  All right.
[22:24.920 --> 22:28.520]  Well, can I still file that because here's...
[22:28.520 --> 22:38.600]  Yeah, if you have a cause number, that's okay, the process of filing list pendants, you can't
[22:38.600 --> 22:40.680]  just go and file a list pendants.
[22:40.680 --> 22:49.400]  You've got to file suit first because your list pendants will cite your case number.
[22:51.080 --> 22:56.120]  So if anybody wants to go check out the case, they're free to do that.
[22:56.120 --> 23:01.960]  But anybody that's down there at the courthouse making bids on property, they're presuming
[23:01.960 --> 23:07.000]  or assuming to their own detriment that there is a clear title on the property.
[23:08.040 --> 23:15.240]  If there is a list pendants filed in the public record, then there is definitely a problem
[23:15.240 --> 23:23.000]  and chances are nobody is going to want to buy a piece of property that is already involved
[23:23.000 --> 23:24.280]  in litigation.
[23:24.280 --> 23:25.880]  They're just not going to want to do it.
[23:26.760 --> 23:33.240]  I mean, applying common sense, if I was down there at the courthouse wanting to buy foreclosed
[23:33.240 --> 23:40.280]  property, if I went to the county records first and saw, oh, I did like that, I drove
[23:40.280 --> 23:45.560]  by that house and I did kind of want to put a bid in on it, but I see it's inactive litigation.
[23:45.560 --> 23:46.920]  There's a list pendants.
[23:46.920 --> 23:48.760]  I'm going to scratch that one off my list.
[23:48.760 --> 23:50.200]  I don't want anything to do with that.
[23:50.200 --> 23:52.600]  Let's go find an easier target.
[23:52.600 --> 23:54.600]  Right.
[23:54.600 --> 24:01.880]  So yes, since you have a suit filed, you would file a list pendants and cite the case number
[24:01.880 --> 24:06.440]  of your suit, your cause number on the list pendants.
[24:06.440 --> 24:08.440]  Last week, we...
[24:08.440 --> 24:10.440]  Didn't mean to knock you off track.
[24:10.440 --> 24:12.440]  Oh, that's okay.
[24:12.440 --> 24:16.440]  Well, because you need to present your points there too.
[24:16.440 --> 24:25.400]  So then last week we had a hearing on my motion for a rehearing and I don't trust trial courts
[24:25.400 --> 24:30.200]  anyway and I really make sure that I've got all my evidence in there for an appeal.
[24:30.200 --> 24:37.320]  So the plaintiff HSBC, they know that I'm aware of all the fraud that's going on here
[24:37.320 --> 24:42.280]  and I know they do not have standing, but the judge is asking me, well, what kind of
[24:42.280 --> 24:43.560]  evidence do I have?
[24:43.560 --> 24:52.120]  Which basically one of the major things HSBC, when they went to the court to be substituted
[24:52.120 --> 24:57.160]  as party plaintiff, they presented an unrecorded deed to the judge.
[24:57.160 --> 25:01.960]  Well, I mean, he just took it that this is recorded, he doesn't question it.
[25:01.960 --> 25:08.920]  They never even recorded it after the judge granted them to be the substitute party plaintiff.
[25:08.920 --> 25:13.960]  Did you... Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, you threw up another red flag.
[25:13.960 --> 25:16.520]  Did you contest this?
[25:16.520 --> 25:18.520]  Did you object?
[25:18.520 --> 25:24.520]  Unfortunately, when that issue happened, I had an attorney that was handling my case
[25:24.520 --> 25:26.520]  and he didn't know anything about it.
[25:26.520 --> 25:30.520]  Okay, again, your attorney is a tool.
[25:30.520 --> 25:39.720]  Your attorney is to do whatever you want him to do so long as it does not break the law.
[25:39.720 --> 25:45.720]  If you ask or tell your attorney, keep in mind your attorney is representing you and
[25:45.720 --> 25:47.720]  your interests.
[25:47.720 --> 25:52.520]  If you tell your attorney to object, he better object unless he can give you a really good
[25:52.520 --> 25:55.320]  reason why he's not going to object.
[25:55.320 --> 26:00.920]  You can push the pause button anytime you want.
[26:00.920 --> 26:02.920]  Well, that's why I had to fire him, really, because...
[26:02.920 --> 26:06.920]  Okay, well, there you go.
[26:06.920 --> 26:08.920]  Right.
[26:08.920 --> 26:08.920]  Okay.
[26:08.920 --> 26:10.920]  And then I had to take it over myself.
[26:10.920 --> 26:12.920]  So then I found that issue.
[26:12.920 --> 26:18.920]  And when I went and pulled the records on my property and I find, well, there is no assignment
[26:18.920 --> 26:25.320]  of mortgage here, but yet they go and they record against my property an order from a
[26:25.320 --> 26:31.320]  judge giving them substitute party plaintiff, which, I mean, that was totally bizarre to
[26:31.320 --> 26:32.520]  me to do that.
[26:32.520 --> 26:34.520]  Yeah, I've never heard of that either.
[26:34.520 --> 26:36.520]  Right.
[26:36.520 --> 26:43.720]  So I think that they put together this document and it wasn't legitimate and they didn't want
[26:43.720 --> 26:45.720]  to go and put it in record.
[26:45.720 --> 26:48.920]  So they just did this order substituting them.
[26:48.920 --> 26:50.920]  Okay.
[26:50.920 --> 26:56.920]  But now, after this, when I went into the hearing, I informed the judge that whenever
[26:56.920 --> 27:03.720]  there is fraud or misrepresentation that is alleged, it's required in Florida to have
[27:03.720 --> 27:05.720]  an evidentiary hearing.
[27:05.720 --> 27:07.720]  Yes.
[27:07.720 --> 27:11.720]  And he just questioned the other attorney and she didn't even know.
[27:11.720 --> 27:13.720]  Okay.
[27:13.720 --> 27:17.720]  Let me back you up a couple of notches.
[27:17.720 --> 27:19.720]  Okay.
[27:19.720 --> 27:23.720]  You said that the judge asked you what kind of evidence do you have?
[27:23.720 --> 27:25.720]  Yes.
[27:25.720 --> 27:27.720]  Any new evidence.
[27:27.720 --> 27:29.720]  Okay.
[27:29.720 --> 27:31.720]  What kind of evidence do you have?
[27:31.720 --> 27:37.720]  Well, in doing my research, I found on one of these assignment of mortgages that was
[27:37.720 --> 27:45.720]  by someone supposed to be the VP for mayors that I found in Palm Beach County a deposition
[27:45.720 --> 27:53.720]  that she had done and she testifies that at that time she's an employee for One West Bank.
[27:53.720 --> 27:55.720]  Okay.
[27:55.720 --> 28:01.720]  Finding information that the very first assignment of mortgage, that was questionable.
[28:01.720 --> 28:03.720]  Okay.
[28:03.720 --> 28:05.720]  Let me push the pause button.
[28:05.720 --> 28:06.720]  Okay.
[28:06.720 --> 28:08.720]  Bringing in your own evidence.
[28:08.720 --> 28:10.720]  Yes.
[28:10.720 --> 28:12.720]  Okay.
[28:12.720 --> 28:14.720]  Problem.
[28:14.720 --> 28:16.720]  Your own evidence is bias and prejudice.
[28:16.720 --> 28:20.720]  You have a dog in this hunt.
[28:20.720 --> 28:22.720]  You follow me?
[28:22.720 --> 28:24.720]  Yes.
[28:24.720 --> 28:26.720]  Okay.
[28:26.720 --> 28:28.720]  What's better than your own evidence?
[28:28.720 --> 28:34.720]  Well, getting someone else that's objective to it and not a dog in the hunt.
[28:34.720 --> 28:36.720]  Bring in their documents.
[28:36.720 --> 28:38.720]  Okay.
[28:38.720 --> 28:40.720]  Bring in their documents that they filed.
[28:40.720 --> 28:42.720]  All right.
[28:42.720 --> 28:44.720]  But do not just make hearsay claims.
[28:44.720 --> 28:46.720]  Back up your allegations.
[28:46.720 --> 28:48.720]  All right.
[28:48.720 --> 28:50.720]  You factually plead and you co-plead.
[28:50.720 --> 28:56.720]  So you're going to say this is the statute that backs up this cause, this action.
[28:56.720 --> 29:00.720]  If you're citing fraud, you need to cite all the elements of fraud.
[29:00.720 --> 29:08.720]  And for each of the elements of fraud, you must state how it pertains to you at hand and what statute are you using to back it up.
[29:08.720 --> 29:10.720]  And you've got to satisfy all the elements.
[29:10.720 --> 29:12.720]  You need to satisfy all the elements.
[29:12.720 --> 29:14.720]  Right.
[29:14.720 --> 29:20.720]  So when you do that, you know, you're just tightening the grip around their neck.
[29:20.720 --> 29:24.720]  And you just need to start squeezing more and more and more.
[29:24.720 --> 29:32.720]  Well, I think I have been squeezing because this is what I wanted to tell you after that hearing.
[29:32.720 --> 29:36.720]  I got the notice they filed with the –
[29:36.720 --> 29:38.720]  Hey, Darlene, I'm going to have to push that pause button again.
[29:38.720 --> 29:40.720]  Unfortunately, we're coming up to break.
[29:40.720 --> 29:46.720]  So I'll make a note here and we'll come back to your point right after this break.
[29:46.720 --> 29:50.720]  512-646-1984 is the number to dial.
[29:50.720 --> 29:54.720]  And on the other side of this commercial message, we will be back with Darlene in Florida.
[29:54.720 --> 29:56.720]  Folks, you're listening to Rule of Law Radio.
[29:56.720 --> 30:02.720]  Stay tuned.
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[33:21.720 --> 33:38.720]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[33:38.720 --> 33:49.720]  Before we went out on break, we were talking with Darlene in Florida. Darlene, pick up where you left off, honey.
[33:49.720 --> 33:56.720]  Oh, wait a minute. I guess I could unmute you. Now you can hit the ground running.
[33:56.720 --> 34:17.720]  Okay. Now after we had that hearing where I stated that it was required to have an evidentiary hearing, three days later I get this letter that the plaintiff filed a motion to direct the clerk to issue a certificate of title on that sale.
[34:17.720 --> 34:29.720]  So I'm like, well, if we had an open case at the time when they proceeded to do a sale on my property, so I need to know where do I go from here?
[34:29.720 --> 34:32.720]  Oh, Lord.
[34:32.720 --> 34:38.720]  That's a good question. You may have stumped this jump on this.
[34:38.720 --> 34:43.720]  Okay, let's go back to the clerk.
[34:43.720 --> 34:49.720]  Which clerk, court clerk or the county clerk, is to do a declaration of title?
[34:49.720 --> 34:55.720]  This would be to the clerk of the court.
[34:55.720 --> 34:56.720]  Clerk of the court.
[34:56.720 --> 35:01.720]  And then who handled the actual auction of the property.
[35:01.720 --> 35:03.720]  Okay.
[35:03.720 --> 35:07.720]  That might be the substitute trustee as well.
[35:07.720 --> 35:13.720]  Substitute trustee works for the foreclosure mills.
[35:13.720 --> 35:21.720]  The clerk works for the court, but I don't understand where.
[35:21.720 --> 35:28.720]  Okay, this is this is kind of uncharted territory for me. I'm just trying to think out loud here and get this sorted out.
[35:28.720 --> 35:32.720]  I don't, I don't see where the court.
[35:32.720 --> 35:37.720]  Okay, let's let's back up and take a take a second look at this.
[35:37.720 --> 35:39.720]  Okay.
[35:39.720 --> 35:43.720]  You're challenging.
[35:43.720 --> 35:45.720]  A party's right.
[35:45.720 --> 35:48.720]  Yes, you're telling. Okay, standing.
[35:48.720 --> 35:55.720]  You're challenging a party's right to to be in court, actually, to come forward with a claim.
[35:55.720 --> 35:56.720]  Yes.
[35:56.720 --> 36:11.720]  Now, the court has issued an order to or a directive of some sort to the court clerk to make a declaration of title.
[36:11.720 --> 36:15.720]  Yeah, that's the motion that they've put before the clerk to do this because.
[36:15.720 --> 36:17.720]  Who's they? Who's they?
[36:17.720 --> 36:19.720]  The plaintiff.
[36:19.720 --> 36:20.720]  Okay.
[36:20.720 --> 36:21.720]  Okay.
[36:21.720 --> 36:27.720]  To issue them to issue them title to the to the property.
[36:27.720 --> 36:30.720]  Well, yes, to issue to the plaintiff title to the property.
[36:30.720 --> 36:40.720]  And one thing they're stating, which I don't know if this is true or not, but they're saying that within the 10 days of the sale, there was no objection.
[36:40.720 --> 36:42.720]  Well, no, I didn't object.
[36:42.720 --> 36:48.720]  I had motions going in the court and this was still an act of foreclosure.
[36:48.720 --> 36:50.720]  Okay.
[36:50.720 --> 36:54.720]  So I would think there were objections going.
[36:54.720 --> 37:05.720]  Not necessarily an objection is an objection, not not a pleading and not a not a motion.
[37:05.720 --> 37:09.720]  You didn't object within 10 days.
[37:09.720 --> 37:16.720]  Yeah, I don't see how an open case can go to auction.
[37:16.720 --> 37:23.720]  Okay, here's how an open case can go to auction.
[37:23.720 --> 37:29.720]  There's a difference between title and possession.
[37:29.720 --> 37:31.720]  Using the state.
[37:31.720 --> 37:42.720]  Now, I understand that there are differences and some big differences between the courts in Florida and the process in Florida and the courts in the process in Texas.
[37:42.720 --> 38:04.720]  However, generally, if there is a suit based on Texas law, if there is a suit for wrongful foreclosure in a district or federal court, the justice court, the lower court,
[38:04.720 --> 38:18.720]  the for an action of possession in the lower court, the jurisdiction of the lower court and the jurisdiction of the higher court run concurrent.
[38:18.720 --> 38:20.720]  That means at the same time.
[38:20.720 --> 38:26.720]  So you could have essentially two different suits filed and going at the same time.
[38:26.720 --> 38:39.720]  One in the district or the Fed over wrongful foreclosure and one in the justice court or the lower court for possession.
[38:39.720 --> 39:04.720]  However, if there is a pleading and adversarial pleading in the district or the federal court with genuine issues of title that abates any action or pushes the pause button on any action in the lower court for possession.
[39:04.720 --> 39:16.720]  Here's the logic behind that for the party in the lower court, the plaintiff in the lower court to gain possession.
[39:16.720 --> 39:25.720]  The higher court must make a determination as to who has the right to title.
[39:25.720 --> 39:36.720]  And I think from the sound of what you're telling me here, this goes runs very, very closely in line with what I'm speaking of.
[39:36.720 --> 39:46.720]  So you've got an action for possession and an action for either title or wrongful foreclosure.
[39:46.720 --> 39:51.720]  Which is it? No, that's a question. Which is it?
[39:51.720 --> 39:59.720]  Well, if they follow through to get certificate of title, it would be for wrongful foreclosure.
[39:59.720 --> 40:04.720]  No, no, no. I'm talking about you have a suit filed, correct?
[40:04.720 --> 40:05.720]  Yes.
[40:05.720 --> 40:15.720]  Okay. You have a suit filed not in the lower court, but you have a suit filed in the higher court.
[40:15.720 --> 40:18.720]  What is your cause of action in the higher court?
[40:18.720 --> 40:28.720]  Is it are you raising issues of wrongful foreclosure or are you raising issues, genuine issues of title?
[40:28.720 --> 40:31.720]  Well, that would be going to the appellate court and I'm not there yet.
[40:31.720 --> 40:33.720]  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[40:33.720 --> 40:38.720]  I'm asking you what cause of action do you have in the higher court?
[40:38.720 --> 40:41.720]  What are you challenging in the higher court?
[40:41.720 --> 40:43.720]  Steve, let me step in for a second.
[40:43.720 --> 40:45.720]  Sure, please, please.
[40:45.720 --> 40:49.720]  He has a wrongful foreclosure suit.
[40:49.720 --> 40:57.720]  The wrongful foreclosure suit will go to the validity of the trustee's deed.
[40:57.720 --> 41:08.720]  That would be the only issue because there is no harm until the trustee's deed is filed in the record.
[41:08.720 --> 41:15.720]  And the trustee's deed is the harm the wrongful foreclosure would go directly to the validity of the trustee's deed.
[41:15.720 --> 41:18.720]  Right. Okay.
[41:18.720 --> 41:20.720]  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
[41:20.720 --> 41:22.720]  And I don't blame you.
[41:22.720 --> 41:41.720]  Okay. What I'm trying to get to is where does the court get the authority to award title to a plaintiff without the plaintiff proving up title?
[41:41.720 --> 41:49.720]  I can see where they can do that in the lower court because all the lower court needs is color of title.
[41:49.720 --> 41:52.720]  But in the higher court, it's a different story.
[41:52.720 --> 41:59.720]  If you're challenging title, they've got to prove their rights to title.
[41:59.720 --> 42:13.720]  I don't see where the court has jurisdiction to just all willy-nilly just at their own whim grant title to a party that can't prove it.
[42:13.720 --> 42:16.720]  Well, they just take them for their word.
[42:16.720 --> 42:17.720]  They don't question it.
[42:17.720 --> 42:19.720]  I understand that.
[42:19.720 --> 42:26.720]  Now, what I'm asking you is when you filed suit, what cause of action did you have in your suit?
[42:26.720 --> 42:31.720]  Are you challenging the foreclosure or are you challenging title?
[42:31.720 --> 42:41.720]  Well, I'm actually challenging their right to do the foreclosure because they don't understand it.
[42:41.720 --> 42:42.720]  Okay.
[42:42.720 --> 42:44.720]  Now I see the problem.
[42:44.720 --> 42:47.720]  You have a wrongful foreclosure suit.
[42:47.720 --> 42:58.720]  Therefore, the action for possession and the action for wrongful foreclosure, the two different courts run concurrent.
[42:58.720 --> 42:59.720]  Okay.
[42:59.720 --> 43:08.720]  And it seems to me like the two courts or the two issues have kind of melded together.
[43:08.720 --> 43:18.720]  The court where you have your pleading filed seems to be granting title,
[43:18.720 --> 43:30.720]  therefore granting the lower court the authority to issue possession or grant possession to the party plaintiff or the substitute party plaintiff.
[43:30.720 --> 43:31.720]  Right.
[43:31.720 --> 43:32.720]  Okay.
[43:32.720 --> 43:34.720]  I hear music in the background.
[43:34.720 --> 43:41.720]  Let me talk with Randy over the break about this and come back in on the other side.
[43:41.720 --> 43:45.720]  We might be able to find you something that you can work with.
[43:45.720 --> 43:50.720]  512-646-1984, folks, is the number that you can dial.
[43:50.720 --> 43:53.720]  Joe in Illinois, we see you there.
[43:53.720 --> 44:01.720]  We'll be right back.
[44:01.720 --> 44:02.720]  Hello.
[44:02.720 --> 44:05.720]  My name is Stuart Smith from naturespureorganics.com,
[44:05.720 --> 44:11.720]  and I would like to invite you to come by our store at 1904 Guadalupe Street, Suite D here in Austin, Texas.
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[44:29.720 --> 44:36.720]  Call 512-264-4043 or find us online at naturespureorganics.com.
[44:36.720 --> 44:42.720]  That's 512-264-4043, naturespureorganics.com.
[44:42.720 --> 45:00.720]  Don't forget to like us on Facebook for information on events and our products, naturespureorganics.com.
[45:00.720 --> 45:03.720]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[46:14.720 --> 46:23.720]  Whoa, whoa, yeah.
[46:23.720 --> 46:29.720]  Always, I must be careful what I'm wishing for.
[46:29.720 --> 46:34.720]  When I'm hungry, I like to know just what I'm fishing for.
[46:34.720 --> 46:40.720]  I ain't asking for much, I ain't trying to be no glutton.
[46:40.720 --> 46:46.720]  I'm just here making my living pushing buttons.
[46:46.720 --> 46:52.720]  I give my message out to anyone in shout and distance.
[46:52.720 --> 46:58.720]  I vote for bravery and against slavery showing resistance.
[46:58.720 --> 47:03.720]  First I'm crawling, then I'm walking, then I start strutting.
[47:03.720 --> 47:06.720]  I'm just so glad to make my living pushing buttons.
[47:06.720 --> 47:11.720]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks. 512-646-1984 is the number to dial
[47:11.720 --> 47:14.720]  if you'd like to join us in conversation.
[47:14.720 --> 47:17.720]  Got a little over an hour left to the show.
[47:17.720 --> 47:20.720]  Got plenty of time for you to get on board.
[47:20.720 --> 47:23.720]  And Darlene in Florida.
[47:23.720 --> 47:29.720]  Randy and I briefly talked about this over the break.
[47:29.720 --> 47:33.720]  And I've got to agree with Randy.
[47:33.720 --> 47:44.720]  Motion to challenge subject matter jurisdiction might be in order.
[47:44.720 --> 47:52.720]  When I was contemplating how does the court grant the authority
[47:52.720 --> 47:58.720]  or how does the court get authority to grant title to a party that can't prove it,
[47:58.720 --> 48:04.720]  that goes straight to subject matter.
[48:04.720 --> 48:08.720]  So you might challenge the subject matter of the jurisdiction of the court.
[48:08.720 --> 48:15.720]  If a party cannot prove that they have title,
[48:15.720 --> 48:19.720]  then the court cannot grant title to a party that can't prove it.
[48:19.720 --> 48:27.720]  So you've got to ask, does the court have jurisdiction over the subject matter?
[48:27.720 --> 48:29.720]  Well, here's the situation.
[48:29.720 --> 48:37.720]  I presented a motion before the court with the subject matter jurisdiction for the judge.
[48:37.720 --> 48:40.720]  And, of course, I have the transcript on it.
[48:40.720 --> 48:45.720]  And basically he just said denied, would not give any reason,
[48:45.720 --> 48:51.720]  but he said I can do whatever I want and I have jurisdiction over everything.
[48:51.720 --> 48:53.720]  Oh, really?
[48:53.720 --> 48:55.720]  You're God, are you?
[48:55.720 --> 48:57.720]  Oh, yes.
[48:57.720 --> 48:58.720]  Wow.
[48:58.720 --> 48:59.720]  Yes.
[48:59.720 --> 49:00.720]  Wow.
[49:00.720 --> 49:01.720]  Okay.
[49:01.720 --> 49:03.720]  Yeah.
[49:03.720 --> 49:09.720]  It sounds to me like the appellate level is going to disagree with this moron.
[49:09.720 --> 49:12.720]  Well, that's why I get my transcripts.
[49:12.720 --> 49:15.720]  I try to get all my evidence in on the files.
[49:15.720 --> 49:16.720]  Absolutely.
[49:16.720 --> 49:17.720]  Yeah.
[49:17.720 --> 49:20.720]  So I just didn't know what I should do from here.
[49:20.720 --> 49:26.720]  I mean, like you said, file a list pending, but if they go and get certificate of title,
[49:26.720 --> 49:29.720]  sure, it's going to show a list pending, but...
[49:29.720 --> 49:30.720]  Okay.
[49:30.720 --> 49:33.720]  Has the property sold yet?
[49:33.720 --> 49:36.720]  Well, that's where they did October 31st.
[49:36.720 --> 49:40.720]  They did their auction while it was still in open status,
[49:40.720 --> 49:45.720]  and the HSBC themselves purchased it for $5,100.
[49:45.720 --> 49:46.720]  Okay.
[49:46.720 --> 49:49.720]  $5,100?
[49:49.720 --> 49:50.720]  Yes.
[49:50.720 --> 49:52.720]  Gee, that's cheap.
[49:52.720 --> 49:53.720]  Yes.
[49:53.720 --> 49:56.720]  For a waterfront home, yes.
[49:56.720 --> 49:58.720]  Oh, wow.
[49:58.720 --> 50:00.720]  Right.
[50:00.720 --> 50:06.720]  You didn't pledge $60,000 or $6,000?
[50:06.720 --> 50:08.720]  Oh, well, they would have kept going up and up and up.
[50:08.720 --> 50:10.720]  Well, yeah.
[50:10.720 --> 50:13.720]  I mean, they got more money than I do.
[50:13.720 --> 50:15.720]  Sure, they do.
[50:15.720 --> 50:19.720]  Wow, yeah, $5,100 is awful cheap.
[50:19.720 --> 50:24.720]  Yeah, but it's really of no consequence.
[50:24.720 --> 50:27.720]  Yeah, it sounds like you need to get ready for the appellate.
[50:27.720 --> 50:28.720]  Yeah.
[50:28.720 --> 50:31.720]  I mean, I just didn't know how, when it's still in open case,
[50:31.720 --> 50:34.720]  you could just take it forward to auction.
[50:34.720 --> 50:40.720]  Well, on one side I would say they can't.
[50:40.720 --> 50:43.720]  On the other side I would say they can't.
[50:43.720 --> 50:51.720]  But since you've got no innocent third party who has stepped in,
[50:51.720 --> 50:54.720]  I'd say it's of no consequence.
[50:54.720 --> 50:56.720]  You're still fighting the same guys.
[50:56.720 --> 50:57.720]  Yes.
[50:57.720 --> 51:00.720]  Now you're just fighting on a different front.
[51:00.720 --> 51:03.720]  I'd say keep up the fight.
[51:03.720 --> 51:06.720]  Okay, so basically we'll just be taking this into appellate court.
[51:06.720 --> 51:11.720]  I'm still going to try to get my evidentiary hearing so I can get that on record.
[51:11.720 --> 51:14.720]  Sure, sure, absolutely.
[51:14.720 --> 51:19.720]  Okay, and then I should still file that list pending though, right?
[51:19.720 --> 51:20.720]  The list pendants?
[51:20.720 --> 51:25.720]  Well, since the sale has already taken place, that's kind of water under the bridge.
[51:25.720 --> 51:28.720]  Okay, all right.
[51:28.720 --> 51:30.720]  I mean, it wouldn't hurt.
[51:30.720 --> 51:34.720]  I mean, you're not going to shoot yourself in the foot by going ahead
[51:34.720 --> 51:41.720]  and filing that list pendants so long as you have an active suit with a cause number
[51:41.720 --> 51:45.720]  to put on the list pendants, no harm, no foul.
[51:45.720 --> 51:47.720]  Yeah, okay.
[51:47.720 --> 51:50.720]  One other question that I wanted to ask her,
[51:50.720 --> 51:55.720]  have you ever had any dealings with Own It Mortgage Solutions?
[51:55.720 --> 52:02.720]  Because in my investigations I've found they went out of business in December 2006,
[52:02.720 --> 52:06.720]  but the first mortgage assignment that's in my file,
[52:06.720 --> 52:12.720]  it was filed June 2009 with Mears and Own It Mortgage Solutions,
[52:12.720 --> 52:17.720]  selling it to IndyMac Bank, who I had the original loan with.
[52:17.720 --> 52:22.720]  Well, okay, IndyMac is out of business.
[52:22.720 --> 52:23.720]  Right.
[52:23.720 --> 52:25.720]  Been out of business for a long time.
[52:25.720 --> 52:27.720]  They're now OneWest.
[52:27.720 --> 52:28.720]  Right.
[52:28.720 --> 52:29.720]  Same players.
[52:29.720 --> 52:35.720]  Well, they've got some new players on the field, but essentially the same bunch of crooks.
[52:35.720 --> 52:38.720]  But IndyMac is gone.
[52:38.720 --> 52:41.720]  They're out.
[52:41.720 --> 52:47.720]  When did this transfer take place, before or after IndyMac went out of business?
[52:47.720 --> 52:50.720]  Well, I don't know when Indy went out of business,
[52:50.720 --> 52:57.720]  but this Own It Mortgage Solutions transferred my loan through Mears to IndyMac in June 2009.
[52:57.720 --> 53:01.720]  I'm not really sure when IndyMac went out.
[53:01.720 --> 53:03.720]  Right after that.
[53:03.720 --> 53:04.720]  Oh, okay.
[53:04.720 --> 53:11.720]  Now, in your county records, who is the last party of interest?
[53:11.720 --> 53:17.720]  Honestly, it's IndyMac because this HSBC never filed an assignment to mortgage.
[53:17.720 --> 53:20.720]  Okay, great.
[53:20.720 --> 53:26.720]  Then how does a dead entity transfer anything?
[53:26.720 --> 53:28.720]  Well, Mears, you know Mears.
[53:28.720 --> 53:29.720]  No, no, no, no.
[53:29.720 --> 53:30.720]  I don't care about Mears.
[53:30.720 --> 53:40.720]  They're acting as a nominee, whatever that is, for a living entity, not a dead one.
[53:40.720 --> 53:50.720]  They can't act as a nominee or an agent of any kind for an entity that no longer exists.
[53:50.720 --> 53:52.720]  Corporate personage.
[53:52.720 --> 53:55.720]  You know what corporate personage is?
[53:55.720 --> 53:56.720]  Not really.
[53:56.720 --> 54:05.720]  Corporate personage grants the status of a person to a corporation.
[54:05.720 --> 54:11.720]  That means a corporation has all the rights that you and I as living beings have.
[54:11.720 --> 54:19.720]  That means that in the antithesis, when a corporation goes out of business, it dies.
[54:19.720 --> 54:22.720]  It's dead.
[54:22.720 --> 54:34.720]  I was fighting a corporation called, when it was alive, when it was, I don't want to say a breathing entity,
[54:34.720 --> 54:50.720]  but when it was an operating business, it was National City Real Estate Services LLC, successor to 15 other idiots.
[54:50.720 --> 54:54.720]  But that business folded.
[54:54.720 --> 54:56.720]  They closed their doors.
[54:56.720 --> 54:58.720]  It died.
[54:58.720 --> 55:00.720]  Okay.
[55:00.720 --> 55:08.720]  So let's say your brother-in-law dies and he's got a pickup truck.
[55:08.720 --> 55:12.720]  Can he sell you that pickup truck after he's dead and in his grave?
[55:12.720 --> 55:13.720]  No.
[55:13.720 --> 55:14.720]  No.
[55:14.720 --> 55:16.720]  Didn't think so.
[55:16.720 --> 55:26.720]  Okay. Apply that principle to IndyMac or this, what was this, this other outfit, one what?
[55:26.720 --> 55:28.720]  The Own It Mortgage solution.
[55:28.720 --> 55:29.720]  Own It Mortgage, yeah.
[55:29.720 --> 55:30.720]  Okay.
[55:30.720 --> 55:41.720]  So MERS as an agent of some sort, how can they act as agent for a dead guy?
[55:41.720 --> 55:42.720]  Yeah, right.
[55:42.720 --> 55:45.720]  They can't, can they?
[55:45.720 --> 55:48.720]  Right.
[55:48.720 --> 55:50.720]  Do you see a problem there?
[55:50.720 --> 55:53.720]  Oh, but the problem goes even further.
[55:53.720 --> 55:57.720]  I'm sure it does, but do you see a fatal flaw just in that alone?
[55:57.720 --> 56:04.720]  Right. And there's another flaw too because on that assignment, it's got the wrong legal description for my property.
[56:04.720 --> 56:07.720]  Okay. That's not a fatal flaw.
[56:07.720 --> 56:11.720]  It may be an error, but it's not a fatal flaw.
[56:11.720 --> 56:19.720]  The fatal flaw is that somebody is acting as agent for a dead principle.
[56:19.720 --> 56:20.720]  Yeah.
[56:20.720 --> 56:22.720]  That's major.
[56:22.720 --> 56:26.720]  The error in the legal description, that's curable.
[56:26.720 --> 56:27.720]  They can go back.
[56:27.720 --> 56:31.720]  If you griff about that, they can go back and change that.
[56:31.720 --> 56:32.720]  That's fine.
[56:32.720 --> 56:36.720]  They can claim it's a clerical error and then go back and change it.
[56:36.720 --> 56:42.720]  What they can't change is the fact that the alleged principle no longer exists.
[56:42.720 --> 56:44.720]  He's dead.
[56:44.720 --> 56:45.720]  They can't change that.
[56:45.720 --> 56:47.720]  That's a fatal flaw.
[56:47.720 --> 56:49.720]  Okay.
[56:49.720 --> 56:52.720]  Hone in on that.
[56:52.720 --> 56:53.720]  Okay.
[56:53.720 --> 56:54.720]  Yeah.
[56:54.720 --> 56:56.720]  That's why I figured there's a lot that's wrong here.
[56:56.720 --> 57:00.720]  I know they don't have standing, but the judge doesn't want to hear it.
[57:00.720 --> 57:04.720]  And at the trial court, they never will.
[57:04.720 --> 57:05.720]  Yeah.
[57:05.720 --> 57:10.720]  I've said before and I'll say again and I'll keep saying over and over and over,
[57:10.720 --> 57:18.720]  the trial court is there only for you to have a place to leave a footprint on your way to the appellate court.
[57:18.720 --> 57:19.720]  Right.
[57:19.720 --> 57:20.720]  Period.
[57:20.720 --> 57:23.720]  No other reason does it exist.
[57:23.720 --> 57:27.720]  So even though they go and get the certificate of title like you said,
[57:27.720 --> 57:35.720]  it still doesn't get them possession while I still keep my fight going.
[57:35.720 --> 57:40.720]  That again, that goes back to whatever issues that you brought to the court.
[57:40.720 --> 57:44.720]  If you brought for a wrongful foreclosure claim,
[57:44.720 --> 57:53.720]  then the issue of possession moves along with it as where if you bring forward a claim challenging title,
[57:53.720 --> 57:57.720]  that stops the issue of possession in the lower court.
[57:57.720 --> 57:59.720]  So you're kind of in limbo on that.
[57:59.720 --> 58:01.720]  You're hung in between.
[58:01.720 --> 58:03.720]  All right.
[58:03.720 --> 58:04.720]  Okay.
[58:04.720 --> 58:05.720]  All right.
[58:05.720 --> 58:07.720]  I'll keep plugging along here.
[58:07.720 --> 58:08.720]  Okay.
[58:08.720 --> 58:09.720]  Thank you.
[58:09.720 --> 58:13.720]  Well, I wish you the best of luck and be sure you call in and give us an update.
[58:13.720 --> 58:16.720]  Let us know how this is working out for you.
[58:16.720 --> 58:17.720]  I will.
[58:17.720 --> 58:18.720]  I will.
[58:18.720 --> 58:19.720]  Thank you.
[58:19.720 --> 58:20.720]  Right.
[58:20.720 --> 58:21.720]  Thank you for calling in, Darlene.
[58:21.720 --> 58:26.720]  It's another break and Joe in Illinois will come to you right after we come back from break.
[58:26.720 --> 58:30.720]  We're going to the top of the hour break, so you're going to have to put up the news.
[58:30.720 --> 58:33.720]  But while the news is on, folks, go take care of our sponsors.
[58:33.720 --> 58:36.720]  512-646-1984.
[58:36.720 --> 58:39.720]  That's the number you can dial to join us in conversation.
[58:39.720 --> 58:41.720]  Randy's lurking in the background somewhere.
[58:41.720 --> 58:44.720]  I hear him sneeze every now and then.
[58:44.720 --> 58:46.720]  You might be able to get him on air.
[58:46.720 --> 58:47.720]  You're listening to the rule of law.
[58:47.720 --> 58:49.720]  We'll be right back.
[58:49.720 --> 58:53.720]  Would you like to make more definite progress in your walk with God?
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[59:49.720 --> 01:00:02.720]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com.
[01:00:02.720 --> 01:00:08.720]  This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty News and activist updates, online at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:00:08.720 --> 01:00:12.720]  I'm Brian Higgin with your Liberty Beat for Friday, June 6, 2014.
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[01:00:33.720 --> 01:00:39.720]  Support also comes from Accountable Authority, now offering a public database of police abuse and misconduct.
[01:00:39.720 --> 01:00:42.720]  Online at accountableauthority.com.
[01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:52.720]  In the news, the Los Angeles Police Department acquired two drones this week, enabling them to move closer towards using drones for manhunts, standoffs, and other tactical events.
[01:00:52.720 --> 01:00:56.720]  The drones were given to LAPD free of charge from the Seattle Police Department.
[01:00:56.720 --> 01:01:02.720]  Each remote-controlled copter is about three feet in width, has three rotors, and is equipped to carry a video camera.
[01:01:02.720 --> 01:01:09.720]  CBS reports the FAA must grant the LAPD with a certificate to use the drone.
[01:01:09.720 --> 01:01:12.720]  The application process is still in the preliminary stages.
[01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:24.720]  A 14-year-old female San Marcos student confided in her parents as she was asked how far she was willing to go sexually during a sex education lesson.
[01:01:24.720 --> 01:01:32.720]  Woodland Park Middle School reportedly asked students to stand under signs labeled smile that, hugged, kissed, above the waist, below the waist, and all the way.
[01:01:32.720 --> 01:01:35.720]  That's according to a report from 10 News.
[01:01:35.720 --> 01:01:41.720]  School officials defended the dating lesson, saying the goal was to discuss what is appropriate for dating at the middle school level.
[01:01:41.720 --> 01:01:47.720]  Students felt embarrassed because they thought the teacher wanted to know how far each would go sexually.
[01:01:47.720 --> 01:01:54.720]  The school's principal says the lesson has been in use for several years now.
[01:01:54.720 --> 01:02:00.720]  Pakistani officials are calling CIA drone strikes illegal and a criminal act that needs to be investigated.
[01:02:00.720 --> 01:02:07.720]  On Thursday, a Pakistani court ordered police to investigate murder allegations against senior CIA officer Jonathan Banks.
[01:02:07.720 --> 01:02:13.720]  Human rights campaigners say the move opens up the doorway for other cases to be brought against the U.S.
[01:02:13.720 --> 01:02:20.720]  Reports show more than 60 percent of drone strikes target private homes in the middle of the night, often killing innocent families in their sleep.
[01:02:20.720 --> 01:02:23.720]  On Wednesday night, a U.S. drone strike killed three men in Yemen.
[01:02:23.720 --> 01:02:27.720]  Support for Liberty Beat comes from My Magic Mud, all-natural teeth-widener.
[01:02:27.720 --> 01:02:31.720]  Go to MyMagicMud.com to hear a short interview with Dr. Griffin Cole.
[01:02:31.720 --> 01:02:33.720]  That's MyMagicMud.com.
[01:02:33.720 --> 01:02:42.720]  And support comes from Brave New Books, now offering ProPure water filtration, the only gravity-driven all-in-one fluoride removal system that also alkalizes the water.
[01:02:42.720 --> 01:02:47.720]  Find them in Austin, 1904 Guadalupe Street, or online, BraveNewBookstore.com.
[01:02:47.720 --> 01:02:52.720]  This is The Liberty Beat for Friday, June 6, 2014.
[01:02:52.720 --> 01:03:21.720]  Check out the website at TheLibertyBeat.com.
[01:03:22.720 --> 01:03:32.720]  I will identify my father's house until he returns.
[01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:43.720]  He has to be with his faith and with God to aid my concerns.
[01:03:43.720 --> 01:03:54.720]  I will identify my father's house until he returns.
[01:03:54.720 --> 01:04:05.720]  I will guard his walls and fences until he comes to take his place.
[01:04:05.720 --> 01:04:14.720]  Take a peek in every night to show the father enter. Kiss all the parasites from around here.
[01:04:14.720 --> 01:04:19.720]  Kiss them all they must because they cannot enter. Pure and water-clean signs only.
[01:04:19.720 --> 01:04:25.720]  Only them could enter in that house, you see. See a few souls surrender quickly.
[01:04:25.720 --> 01:04:27.720]  That's what you're doing now with that house, you see.
[01:04:27.720 --> 01:04:38.720]  I will identify my father's house until he comes to take his place.
[01:04:38.720 --> 01:04:49.720]  Take a peek in every night to show the father enter.
[01:04:49.720 --> 01:04:57.720]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks. And we're going to go to Joe in Illinois.
[01:04:57.720 --> 01:05:04.720]  Joe, thank you for hanging on so long. I know you've been online there on the phone now for nearly two hours.
[01:05:04.720 --> 01:05:10.720]  I hope you haven't started growing a tumor in your right ear.
[01:05:10.720 --> 01:05:16.720]  Oh, I guess it would... Oh, you're there. Joe, you there?
[01:05:16.720 --> 01:05:21.720]  Joe in Illinois. Hello. Going once.
[01:05:21.720 --> 01:05:29.720]  Joe in Illinois. Going twice. Hello, Joe. Are you there?
[01:05:29.720 --> 01:05:31.720]  Sold.
[01:05:31.720 --> 01:05:37.720]  Oh, I think you might have put him to sleep. I thought I was in his sleep.
[01:05:37.720 --> 01:05:46.720]  Well, Joe, if you're listening, stay there and we'll come back to you after we go to Danny in Illinois. Hello, Danny.
[01:05:46.720 --> 01:05:47.720]  Hello.
[01:05:47.720 --> 01:05:53.720]  There's Danny. Okay, we got a voice on the other end. What's on your mind tonight, brother?
[01:05:53.720 --> 01:06:02.720]  Well, I'm not sure if this is a completely on topic or not, but there's a guy that I spoke to that has a house in Missouri.
[01:06:02.720 --> 01:06:03.720]  Okay.
[01:06:03.720 --> 01:06:09.720]  And he hasn't paid any property taxes on it for several years now.
[01:06:09.720 --> 01:06:10.720]  Okay.
[01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:23.720]  And he noticed that his taxes were sold and a lady apparently came to the house and said that she now owns the house.
[01:06:23.720 --> 01:06:26.720]  She purchased it at a tax auction.
[01:06:26.720 --> 01:06:27.720]  Right.
[01:06:27.720 --> 01:06:28.720]  Okay.
[01:06:28.720 --> 01:06:36.720]  And the people that are there, they just didn't want to give her any information, of course.
[01:06:36.720 --> 01:06:46.720]  But then later on, they sent a notice saying that everybody needs to be vacated out of the house by the 15th of June.
[01:06:46.720 --> 01:07:00.720]  Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. In Illinois, in a tax sale, how long does the original holder have to recover the property?
[01:07:00.720 --> 01:07:04.720]  Oh, I believe it's a year, but I'm talking about in Missouri.
[01:07:04.720 --> 01:07:09.720]  Oh, Missouri. Okay, so it's a year. Did she wait that amount of time?
[01:07:09.720 --> 01:07:11.720]  No.
[01:07:11.720 --> 01:07:21.720]  You can't evict until their time to recover has, wait a minute, I'm saying that and I'm not sure.
[01:07:21.720 --> 01:07:38.720]  Have you checked tax code in Missouri to see if you can do a forcible detainer of the person who has a right to recover prior to the recovery period?
[01:07:38.720 --> 01:07:42.720]  Forcible detainer, what would that be?
[01:07:42.720 --> 01:07:45.720]  They may call it a redemption period.
[01:07:45.720 --> 01:07:51.720]  Oh, yes. From what I understand, they have until the 26th of August.
[01:07:51.720 --> 01:08:11.720]  Now, does the party, once a property is sold at a tax sale, does the purchasing party have the right to take possession prior to the termination of the redemption period?
[01:08:11.720 --> 01:08:24.720]  Let me explain why I ask that. If a guy owns a piece of property and he gets in tight straits and he says it's a commercial property and has sold a tax sale, but he's got a year to recover,
[01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:33.720]  if you take the property away from him, that would virtually ensure that he would not be able to recover.
[01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:45.720]  I would expect in equity that he would be allowed to maintain possession of the property until the redemption period. Have you checked that in Missouri law?
[01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:50.720]  No, I haven't. He hasn't mentioned anything to me about that either.
[01:08:50.720 --> 01:09:07.720]  He may not know about it yet, but it won't matter. If you move to evict and you do get him evicted and there was this requirement of a redemption period,
[01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:22.720]  if he finds out about it later, he can come back and hammer you, or there's a good chance he'll be able to come back and hammer you for wrongful eviction.
[01:09:22.720 --> 01:09:37.720]  I see. So I would be real careful. Check that before you move against him. That's the drawback. Well, it's not really a drawback to buying from a tax sale,
[01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:49.720]  because if they do redeem it, you get a really good return on your money. So did that make sense?
[01:09:49.720 --> 01:10:00.720]  Oh, I guess I kind of lost you on me and him. I'm not actually involved in it. I was trying to get some information for the owner of the house.
[01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:22.720]  Well, have him check the tax code or just go down to the tax office and ask them. They'll probably tell you. But if not, call a local attorney who does property issues and ask them about how long you have to,
[01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:36.720]  can you evict prior to the redemption period. That's going to be real important. And did you have another question? Other than that, I think I kind of stepped in the middle.
[01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:53.720]  I think that was it. I couldn't imagine they'd be able to evict before. Because when I talked to the people at the county, they had mentioned that they can apply for a tax deed after the end of the redemption period.
[01:10:53.720 --> 01:10:58.720]  How long is the redemption period? They mentioned how long the redemption period is.
[01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:10.720]  That would be at the end, that would be the 26th of August. That pretty well answers that question. They don't have a deed yet.
[01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:20.720]  Right. Without a deed, they're going to have no standing to invoke the subject matter jurisdiction of a forcible containers court.
[01:11:20.720 --> 01:11:30.720]  Right. So if they file, the other side will almost certainly get it quashed and probably come back and hammer him for court costs.
[01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:35.720]  And attorneys, please.
[01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:50.720]  There's not anything from the actual county that has been sent that I know of. There was just something from an attorney saying that the occupants need to be moved out by the 16th.
[01:11:50.720 --> 01:12:01.720]  Well, maybe this attorney hasn't done his homework. Maybe this attorney doesn't know about the August 16th trigger date.
[01:12:01.720 --> 01:12:06.720]  That might be a good way to hammer the attorney on us.
[01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:21.720]  And we have learned, Steve has learned, I have learned, do not assume that because the attorney is learning counsel that he got all the I's dotted and all the T's crossed.
[01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:40.720]  Because, you know, we were talking on the break how busy the attorney Steve works for is. And if he didn't get good information from his client, he could be acting in a way that he will wind up wishing that he wasn't.
[01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:45.720]  So you would certainly want to ask that question.
[01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:55.720]  Yeah, I saw a piece of mail come through, come through the email today.
[01:12:55.720 --> 01:13:04.720]  As a matter of fact, it was a pleading and there's a lot of things that this this came from an opposing law firm.
[01:13:04.720 --> 01:13:09.720]  There were a lot of things that were wrong.
[01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:21.720]  The date on the certificate of service was the attorney was saying that he gave service on the sixth of May.
[01:13:21.720 --> 01:13:25.720]  Well, this is not the sixth of May.
[01:13:25.720 --> 01:13:28.720]  This is the sixth of June.
[01:13:28.720 --> 01:13:31.720]  Problem there.
[01:13:31.720 --> 01:13:34.720]  There was a discrepancy in the parties.
[01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:36.720]  Problem there.
[01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:45.720]  There was a discrepancy in the statute that opposing counsel was was citing.
[01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:48.720]  Problem there.
[01:13:48.720 --> 01:14:02.720]  I would say that opposing counsel is a lot busier tongue in cheek, a lot busier than we are because he really goofed this up bad.
[01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:11.720]  There's there's a lot of correctable errors or curable errors.
[01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:20.720]  But there are a couple of issues that go to they may not be fatal flaws, but they go to fatal flaws.
[01:14:20.720 --> 01:14:22.720]  And I can't get into specifics.
[01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:32.720]  But yeah, as Randy said, just because you got a bar card doesn't really mean that you're dotting all your I's and crossing all your T's.
[01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:42.720]  So any of the stuff that comes across, analyze this very, very carefully.
[01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:49.720]  Dig into the statutes or or encourage your your your acquaintance or your friend to dig into the statutes.
[01:14:49.720 --> 01:14:52.720]  And like Randy said, have him either.
[01:14:52.720 --> 01:14:55.720]  You can you can call down if you want to.
[01:14:55.720 --> 01:14:56.720]  You can help your friend out.
[01:14:56.720 --> 01:15:07.720]  It doesn't matter who makes the call, but somebody needs to make a call down to the to the tax authorities and get some information.
[01:15:07.720 --> 01:15:24.720]  OK, they've already said the redemption period is until the trigger date is the 16th of August, but they're already trying to evict.
[01:15:24.720 --> 01:15:30.720]  I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but it sure smells like a wrongful eviction.
[01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:37.720]  Yeah, you're you're denying someone an opportunity to cure something that's wrong.
[01:15:37.720 --> 01:15:43.720]  Let's say he went out and stopped on his way home, got a six pack of beer and a winning lottery ticket.
[01:15:43.720 --> 01:15:48.720]  Well, he can pay the taxes and pay the property off.
[01:15:48.720 --> 01:16:01.720]  And if he's evicted, now he can do the same and sue the evicting party for wrongful eviction.
[01:16:01.720 --> 01:16:02.720]  So there's it.
[01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:05.720]  You know, it sounds like there's still some remedy there.
[01:16:05.720 --> 01:16:17.720]  You just you're just going to have to dig into the Missouri code and make some telephone calls, ask some questions, get some answers and proceed from there.
[01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:22.720]  Before I would do anything, you'd have to show me.
[01:16:22.720 --> 01:16:25.720]  Yeah, especially in Missouri.
[01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:30.720]  So it says on the license plate anyway.
[01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:32.720]  Is that pretty much got you?
[01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:40.720]  You're you addressed there, Danny.
[01:16:40.720 --> 01:16:42.720]  Somebody muted Danny.
[01:16:42.720 --> 01:16:44.720]  Danny, you got any more questions?
[01:16:44.720 --> 01:16:49.720]  Yes, I wanted to ask you about property tax in general, if that can be disputed.
[01:16:49.720 --> 01:16:51.720]  OK, well, stay right there.
[01:16:51.720 --> 01:16:53.720]  And we'll come to that after this break.
[01:16:53.720 --> 01:16:55.720]  Folks, you're listening to Rural Law Radio.
[01:16:55.720 --> 01:16:57.720]  We'll be right back after these brief messages.
[01:16:57.720 --> 01:17:00.720]  Stay tuned.
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[01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:46.720]  If I can't get everything I want, I need to get a range, yeah.
[01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:57.720]  If I can't get everything I need, I need to get a range, yeah.
[01:19:57.720 --> 01:20:09.720]  If the people of the world can get out and dance and pee, I need to get a range, yeah.
[01:20:09.720 --> 01:20:32.720]  If we can't get all these crazy waters, I need to get a range, yeah.
[01:20:32.720 --> 01:20:43.720]  Looking for a little bitty smidge in the hole, could I get a range, yeah.
[01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:54.720]  I want to reach the top of the hill, sliding on the slippery slope, looking for a range, yeah.
[01:20:54.720 --> 01:21:06.720]  Can I get away from all this sorrow, can I get a range, yeah.
[01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:33.720]  Can I get away from all this sadness and sorrow, can I get a range, yeah.
[01:21:33.720 --> 01:21:52.720]  I want to reach the top of the hill, sliding on the slippery slope, looking for a range, yeah.
[01:21:52.720 --> 01:22:01.720]  I want to reach the top of the hill, sliding on the slippery slope, looking for a range, yeah.
[01:22:01.720 --> 01:22:05.720]  Let's finish up with Danny in Illinois.
[01:22:05.720 --> 01:22:18.720]  Danny, you had another question about property taxes.
[01:22:18.720 --> 01:22:22.720]  Yes, and it didn't work for the guy that I know that did it.
[01:22:22.720 --> 01:22:24.720]  Didn't work at all.
[01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:36.720]  The reason being that when you buy a piece of property, part of the contract is that you agree to pay all the taxes.
[01:22:36.720 --> 01:22:42.720]  You're under a contractual agreement to do so, okay.
[01:22:42.720 --> 01:22:55.720]  The only way I know to challenge taxes is prior to any kind of trouble with the taxing authority is to patent the land.
[01:22:55.720 --> 01:23:00.720]  And that's a whole other subject that would take the rest of the show to explain.
[01:23:00.720 --> 01:23:13.720]  But patenting the land, you acquire absolute title or superior title.
[01:23:13.720 --> 01:23:18.720]  And once the land is patented, now you can challenge the taxing authority.
[01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:22.720]  But until that, you're under a contractual agreement.
[01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:26.720]  Let me explain title a little bit so it makes kind of sense.
[01:23:26.720 --> 01:23:32.720]  You don't actually get a crude title, you accrue ownership.
[01:23:32.720 --> 01:23:38.720]  Correct. That is opposed to ownership interest under deed.
[01:23:38.720 --> 01:23:51.720]  Exactly. When the states sold this property to people, they generally sold it to them on time.
[01:23:51.720 --> 01:23:58.720]  And they said, while you're paying for this property, we're going to take an interest in the form of title.
[01:23:58.720 --> 01:24:02.720]  And so long as we hold this interest, you have to pay us taxes.
[01:24:02.720 --> 01:24:13.720]  But once this is paid off, you can bring forward your loyal title and now you have full ownership.
[01:24:13.720 --> 01:24:23.720]  But consider, what do you think the state or the county who's collecting these taxes is likely to do
[01:24:23.720 --> 01:24:28.720]  when you try to claim this loyal title position?
[01:24:28.720 --> 01:24:33.720]  Consider that you were the tax assessor collector and you've got somebody coming in here saying,
[01:24:33.720 --> 01:24:40.720]  all I got to do is bring forward the loyal title and I don't have to pay taxes anymore.
[01:24:40.720 --> 01:24:51.720]  If I was the assessor, I would say, holy moly, what happens if we let this guy do that?
[01:24:51.720 --> 01:24:53.720]  You open a floodgate.
[01:24:53.720 --> 01:25:04.720]  So you got to know they're going to take your tax dollars and fight you till hell freezes over.
[01:25:04.720 --> 01:25:13.720]  Now, we're not saying you can't do it, but be ready for the fight when you do.
[01:25:13.720 --> 01:25:15.720]  Agreed.
[01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:18.720]  And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
[01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:25.720]  That just goes to the reality of the world that we live in.
[01:25:25.720 --> 01:25:28.720]  That's why we don't know if anybody here has actually done it,
[01:25:28.720 --> 01:25:40.720]  except for a guy down in South Texas and his taxes were 35 bucks a year.
[01:25:40.720 --> 01:25:42.720]  I know the guy that you're talking about.
[01:25:42.720 --> 01:25:48.720]  That was on 260-odd acres, I think, and then he bought a parcel next door to him.
[01:25:48.720 --> 01:25:50.720]  No, it's 11 acres.
[01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:52.720]  He had an 11-acre strip.
[01:25:52.720 --> 01:25:54.720]  Are we talking about Pat?
[01:25:54.720 --> 01:25:55.720]  Yeah, I'm talking about Pat.
[01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:56.720]  Okay.
[01:25:56.720 --> 01:26:02.720]  He was talking about that once when the border patrol agents were trying to go on his property
[01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:06.720]  looking for a pack somebody had dropped.
[01:26:06.720 --> 01:26:08.720]  They claimed they were looking for illegals,
[01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:13.720]  and he knew they were looking for a pack full of dope that they thought somebody dropped out there.
[01:26:13.720 --> 01:26:18.720]  Then he said, it's just perfectly flat, so there's nobody out there.
[01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:21.720]  He said, you can stand here and see the entire 11 acres.
[01:26:21.720 --> 01:26:23.720]  There's nobody here.
[01:26:23.720 --> 01:26:26.720]  He's right down near the border.
[01:26:26.720 --> 01:26:31.720]  It's out there in the desert, and there's not much taxes on the property,
[01:26:31.720 --> 01:26:33.720]  so it wasn't worth having a fight with him,
[01:26:33.720 --> 01:26:41.720]  especially when you go out there and you see a crippled guy hanging from the water tower
[01:26:41.720 --> 01:26:48.720]  with a bunch of big black dogs as meat or snakes just leaving be.
[01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:49.720]  Yep.
[01:26:49.720 --> 01:26:54.720]  Somehow, I doubt you would be quite that lucky in Missouri.
[01:26:54.720 --> 01:26:55.720]  Yeah.
[01:26:55.720 --> 01:26:58.720]  I was coming down to North Carolina one time.
[01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:04.720]  I got a call from Robert Fox, and he had two guys with him.
[01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:12.720]  They were being prosecuted for mail fraud by the U.S. attorney,
[01:27:12.720 --> 01:27:15.720]  and they wanted to know what I thought would happen,
[01:27:15.720 --> 01:27:17.720]  and I asked them what was the issue.
[01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:22.720]  He said, well, we filed some liens against the public official.
[01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:24.720]  How much were the liens?
[01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:27.720]  $11 trillion?
[01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:28.720]  Good Lord.
[01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:30.720]  Oh.
[01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:32.720]  What was the issue?
[01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:37.720]  Traffic?
[01:27:37.720 --> 01:27:41.720]  What were you thinking?
[01:27:41.720 --> 01:27:43.720]  They asked what I thought.
[01:27:43.720 --> 01:27:46.720]  Their chance is whether or not they could get a conviction.
[01:27:46.720 --> 01:27:49.720]  I said, oh, you'll beat the conviction.
[01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:50.720]  No problem.
[01:27:50.720 --> 01:27:51.720]  Don't worry about that.
[01:27:51.720 --> 01:27:52.720]  Oh, is that so?
[01:27:52.720 --> 01:27:53.720]  Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:27:53.720 --> 01:27:57.720]  You'll beat the time, but you won't beat the right.
[01:27:57.720 --> 01:28:01.720]  You're going to spend around a year in a federal lockup.
[01:28:01.720 --> 01:28:03.720]  They're going to dethrone you all over the country.
[01:28:03.720 --> 01:28:06.720]  They're going to cost you everything you've got, cost you your family,
[01:28:06.720 --> 01:28:12.720]  your friends, your neighbors, and once they have totally destroyed you,
[01:28:12.720 --> 01:28:15.720]  they're going to take you to court, and they're going to lose.
[01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:18.720]  They don't care.
[01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:21.720]  You may beat the time, but you won't beat the right.
[01:28:21.720 --> 01:28:25.720]  And that's the similar concern I have with the county.
[01:28:25.720 --> 01:28:29.720]  They have so much to lose.
[01:28:29.720 --> 01:28:33.720]  You won't beat that right.
[01:28:33.720 --> 01:28:36.720]  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
[01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:38.720]  And I never heard from these guys again.
[01:28:38.720 --> 01:28:41.720]  I don't know what actually happened to them.
[01:28:41.720 --> 01:28:47.720]  But I had just came from a guy in Asheville, North Carolina,
[01:28:47.720 --> 01:28:49.720]  who had been a broadcaster for 20 years.
[01:28:49.720 --> 01:28:51.720]  He filed a bunch of these liens.
[01:28:51.720 --> 01:28:59.720]  They prosecuted him, and he got this Dr. Carlton out of Florida,
[01:28:59.720 --> 01:29:03.720]  who's since passed away, to testify for him.
[01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:07.720]  They let him testify for 45 minutes.
[01:29:07.720 --> 01:29:10.720]  They had enough charges to hold him for 160 years.
[01:29:10.720 --> 01:29:12.720]  He beat them all.
[01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:14.720]  And he's crowing like a bandy rooster.
[01:29:14.720 --> 01:29:16.720]  And I said, well, when did all this start?
[01:29:16.720 --> 01:29:17.720]  Did you have a family?
[01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:20.720]  Oh, yeah, my wife divorced me and took the kids.
[01:29:20.720 --> 01:29:21.720]  Well, where were you living?
[01:29:21.720 --> 01:29:24.720]  Oh, I had a three-story house over here in Asheville.
[01:29:24.720 --> 01:29:25.720]  Where are you living now?
[01:29:25.720 --> 01:29:30.720]  Oh, I'm living over here in a motorhome park in a camper trailer.
[01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:33.720]  And how long are you in federal lockup?
[01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:36.720]  A year and some days.
[01:29:36.720 --> 01:29:40.720]  And you think you won something?
[01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:42.720]  You need to look around, Bubba.
[01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:44.720]  This is Randy Kelton.
[01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:46.720]  Steve Skidmore, Rule of Law Radio.
[01:29:46.720 --> 01:29:51.720]  Our call is number 512-646-1984.
[01:29:51.720 --> 01:29:54.720]  And we're going to try to beat the ride.
[01:29:54.720 --> 01:29:57.720]  We'll be right back on the other side.
[01:29:57.720 --> 01:29:59.720]  All right, I'll be right back.
[01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:05.720]  We think of plants as silent objects,
[01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:08.720]  but new research suggests they not only respond to sounds,
[01:30:08.720 --> 01:30:11.720]  but they're constantly chattering with one another.
[01:30:11.720 --> 01:30:12.720]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht,
[01:30:12.720 --> 01:30:16.720]  and I'll be back with more on how plants talk in a moment.
[01:30:16.720 --> 01:30:18.720]  Privacy is under attack.
[01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:21.720]  When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[01:30:21.720 --> 01:30:23.720]  And once your privacy is gone,
[01:30:23.720 --> 01:30:26.720]  you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish, too.
[01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:29.720]  So protect your rights, say no to surveillance,
[01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:32.720]  and keep your information to yourself.
[01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:34.720]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
[01:30:34.720 --> 01:30:37.720]  This message is brought to you by StartPage.com,
[01:30:37.720 --> 01:30:41.720]  the private search engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing.
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[01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:48.720]  You may remember when Prince Charles said he talked to his plants.
[01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:49.720]  People thought he was baddie,
[01:30:49.720 --> 01:30:52.720]  but the Prince of Wales may have been on to something.
[01:30:52.720 --> 01:30:55.720]  New research shows that sound is vital for plants.
[01:30:55.720 --> 01:30:57.720]  They not only respond to it,
[01:30:57.720 --> 01:31:00.720]  but they communicate with one another through clicking noises.
[01:31:00.720 --> 01:31:04.720]  British scientists used microphones to listen to corn saplings
[01:31:04.720 --> 01:31:06.720]  and heard clicking sounds coming from their roots.
[01:31:06.720 --> 01:31:08.720]  When they suspended the roots in water
[01:31:08.720 --> 01:31:12.720]  and played a continuous noise at a similar frequency to the clicks,
[01:31:12.720 --> 01:31:14.720]  the plants grew toward it.
[01:31:14.720 --> 01:31:17.720]  Wow, maybe I should switch from singing in the shower
[01:31:17.720 --> 01:31:18.720]  to singing in the garden.
[01:31:18.720 --> 01:31:21.720]  At least I'll have a captive audience.
[01:31:21.720 --> 01:31:23.720]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com,
[01:31:23.720 --> 01:31:30.720]  the world's most private search engine.
[01:31:53.720 --> 01:32:04.720]  After work, I'm so tired that I want to be left alone to sleep.
[01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:06.720]  Hey, listen to me.
[01:32:06.720 --> 01:32:07.720]  Who are you?
[01:32:07.720 --> 01:32:09.720]  I knew you years ago when you felt healthy and young
[01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:11.720]  and everything worked on your body.
[01:32:11.720 --> 01:32:12.720]  Do you remember that?
[01:32:12.720 --> 01:32:13.720]  Yes.
[01:32:13.720 --> 01:32:14.720]  I wish I felt like that now.
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[01:32:25.720 --> 01:32:27.720]  and you'll find more drive in your romantic life.
[01:32:27.720 --> 01:32:28.720]  Really?
[01:32:28.720 --> 01:32:30.720]  I got to try Eye Die Now.
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[01:32:31.720 --> 01:32:34.720]  It also protects you from radiation, heavy metals,
[01:32:34.720 --> 01:32:35.720]  fluoride, chlorine, and bromine,
[01:32:35.720 --> 01:32:37.720]  including cancer and most major diseases.
[01:32:37.720 --> 01:32:38.720]  You'll be amazed.
[01:32:38.720 --> 01:32:40.720]  You can be your own doctor.
[01:32:40.720 --> 01:32:43.720]  I want to keep you out of the hospital and off pharmaceuticals.
[01:32:43.720 --> 01:32:45.720]  Wow, why are you so nice to me?
[01:32:45.720 --> 01:32:46.720]  Because I'm you.
[01:32:46.720 --> 01:32:49.720]  You're out of shape and I need a better looking future.
[01:32:49.720 --> 01:32:52.720]  Call 888-910-4367.
[01:32:52.720 --> 01:32:55.720]  That's 888-910-4367.
[01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:57.720]  Or visit microplantpowder.com.
[01:32:57.720 --> 01:33:00.720]  Microplantpowder.com.
[01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:04.720]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network.
[01:33:04.720 --> 01:33:17.720]  Logosradionetwork.com.
[01:33:34.720 --> 01:33:56.720]  Thank you.
[01:33:56.720 --> 01:34:24.720]  Thank you.
[01:34:24.720 --> 01:34:27.720]  Okay, we are back.
[01:34:27.720 --> 01:34:30.720]  Randy Kelton with Steve Skidmore, Rublo Radio.
[01:34:30.720 --> 01:34:34.720]  And Danny, did all that make sense?
[01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:37.720]  Or did I oversell it?
[01:34:37.720 --> 01:34:39.720]  No, you're not.
[01:34:39.720 --> 01:34:42.720]  I guess that's the contract that you spoke of.
[01:34:42.720 --> 01:34:47.720]  That would be somewhere in the closing of the house?
[01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:48.720]  I can't hear you.
[01:34:48.720 --> 01:34:49.720]  You're a little too light for me.
[01:34:49.720 --> 01:34:51.720]  Let me turn up my headset.
[01:34:51.720 --> 01:34:53.720]  Okay, say that again.
[01:34:53.720 --> 01:34:56.720]  The contract that you spoke of,
[01:34:56.720 --> 01:35:00.720]  is that something that would be in the closing documents of the house?
[01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:02.720]  Yes.
[01:35:02.720 --> 01:35:06.720]  That would be the security instrument, the mortgage.
[01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:10.720]  There was no mortgage on this house, I believe.
[01:35:10.720 --> 01:35:12.720]  Was it a cash sale?
[01:35:12.720 --> 01:35:13.720]  Yes.
[01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:15.720]  Okay.
[01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:23.720]  Even in cash sale, there is an implication,
[01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:29.720]  there will be something in that sale document that will grant a taxing authority.
[01:35:29.720 --> 01:35:35.720]  There is in all purchases of property.
[01:35:35.720 --> 01:35:38.720]  Okay, so in order to avoid something like that,
[01:35:38.720 --> 01:35:41.720]  you would have to do a direct buy from the...
[01:35:41.720 --> 01:35:45.720]  That's going to come in the form of a deed restriction.
[01:35:45.720 --> 01:35:48.720]  Right.
[01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:55.720]  You've got police, you've got fire department, you've got ambulance,
[01:35:55.720 --> 01:35:59.720]  you've got all the municipal water services, sewer services,
[01:35:59.720 --> 01:36:05.720]  you've got all this stuff that's tied into some type of municipality
[01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:09.720]  upon which they are going to levy taxes on the property
[01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:14.720]  for the use of these services or the availability of these services.
[01:36:14.720 --> 01:36:19.720]  So to have these services rendered at your whim,
[01:36:19.720 --> 01:36:23.720]  they're going to be prepaid by your taxes.
[01:36:23.720 --> 01:36:27.720]  That will create an adhesion contract.
[01:36:27.720 --> 01:36:29.720]  Correct.
[01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:33.720]  If you enjoy any of these amenities,
[01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:38.720]  then you're in a contract with them to pay for them.
[01:36:38.720 --> 01:36:42.720]  We have had people get out of it,
[01:36:42.720 --> 01:36:46.720]  but if you stop paying the taxes, the police can't protect you.
[01:36:46.720 --> 01:36:50.720]  The fire department can't put your house out if it catches on fire.
[01:36:50.720 --> 01:36:53.720]  You can if you get a contract with them,
[01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:56.720]  and they will contract with you to do that.
[01:36:56.720 --> 01:36:58.720]  That's where I was going to go next.
[01:36:58.720 --> 01:37:01.720]  You'd have to go and do all of that separate,
[01:37:01.720 --> 01:37:05.720]  and you probably wouldn't gain very much.
[01:37:05.720 --> 01:37:08.720]  Right, but at this point, it seems like water under the bridge
[01:37:08.720 --> 01:37:11.720]  because the taxing authority has already invoked their power,
[01:37:11.720 --> 01:37:16.720]  which was granted at the time of sale.
[01:37:16.720 --> 01:37:20.720]  So for all intents and purposes, I hate to be the bearer of bad news,
[01:37:20.720 --> 01:37:25.720]  but it sounds like this guy is going to lose his property.
[01:37:25.720 --> 01:37:29.720]  If he doesn't do the redemption?
[01:37:29.720 --> 01:37:34.720]  The redemption, if he can redeem it, then he can get it back.
[01:37:34.720 --> 01:37:37.720]  He can cure the tax liability.
[01:37:37.720 --> 01:37:39.720]  Steve, I think you're on the wrong side.
[01:37:39.720 --> 01:37:41.720]  Okay.
[01:37:41.720 --> 01:37:46.720]  This guy, your friend is the one that purchased the tax sale, isn't he?
[01:37:46.720 --> 01:37:48.720]  No.
[01:37:48.720 --> 01:37:50.720]  He's losing his tax sale.
[01:37:50.720 --> 01:37:51.720]  He's the one that lost its tax sale.
[01:37:51.720 --> 01:37:52.720]  Okay.
[01:37:52.720 --> 01:37:55.720]  All he needs to do, if he owns the property outlaw, right,
[01:37:55.720 --> 01:37:59.720]  just go get a minor loan against the property.
[01:37:59.720 --> 01:38:05.720]  The taxes change relative to the value of the property and redeem.
[01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:08.720]  Do you know how much the tax bill is?
[01:38:08.720 --> 01:38:14.720]  No, I think they were trying to calculate that now.
[01:38:14.720 --> 01:38:15.720]  Okay.
[01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:20.720]  If it's not over half the property value,
[01:38:20.720 --> 01:38:26.720]  then it's a loan to cover that should be a bringer for a bank.
[01:38:26.720 --> 01:38:29.720]  Right.
[01:38:29.720 --> 01:38:36.720]  Even if you've got crap credit, you're 200% collateralized.
[01:38:36.720 --> 01:38:39.720]  That should not be hard.
[01:38:39.720 --> 01:38:40.720]  All right.
[01:38:40.720 --> 01:38:41.720]  I'll let her know about it.
[01:38:41.720 --> 01:38:42.720]  Thanks.
[01:38:42.720 --> 01:38:43.720]  Okay.
[01:38:43.720 --> 01:38:44.720]  Good luck on that.
[01:38:44.720 --> 01:38:46.720]  All right.
[01:38:46.720 --> 01:38:53.720]  We are in the, we've got about a segment and a half left.
[01:38:53.720 --> 01:38:57.720]  And there was something I was going to start with at the beginning,
[01:38:57.720 --> 01:38:59.720]  if Joe and Steve wasn't here.
[01:38:59.720 --> 01:39:01.720]  And I kind of talked about it last night.
[01:39:01.720 --> 01:39:05.720]  I was going through causes of action.
[01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:12.720]  And in reading through the cause of action for assault or with bodily injury,
[01:39:12.720 --> 01:39:16.720]  I came across something I had never seen before.
[01:39:16.720 --> 01:39:21.720]  Steve, have you ever heard of ratification?
[01:39:21.720 --> 01:39:25.720]  I've heard of ratification, but not as it applies to bodily injury.
[01:39:25.720 --> 01:39:26.720]  Yeah.
[01:39:26.720 --> 01:39:29.720]  I've heard of it as ratification of commencement to rule 17.
[01:39:29.720 --> 01:39:30.720]  Yes.
[01:39:30.720 --> 01:39:39.720]  But if you are an employer and you hire somebody to do a job,
[01:39:39.720 --> 01:39:46.720]  and part of the job requirements is that you do something
[01:39:46.720 --> 01:39:52.720]  that will cause someone else bodily injury, then rather than,
[01:39:52.720 --> 01:40:01.720]  or if you have control over someone as maybe an employee of an employer,
[01:40:01.720 --> 01:40:07.720]  and you authorize someone to do something that causes bodily injury,
[01:40:07.720 --> 01:40:13.720]  you can be claimed as a defendant under ratification.
[01:40:13.720 --> 01:40:20.720]  Now, that's not a real big deal, but we talk about when you make a claim,
[01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:24.720]  you have to make it correctly.
[01:40:24.720 --> 01:40:30.720]  So if somebody beats a crapola out of us,
[01:40:30.720 --> 01:40:35.720]  and we want to file a suit to recover damages,
[01:40:35.720 --> 01:40:39.720]  we really have to know how to do it.
[01:40:39.720 --> 01:40:43.720]  If we don't know what ratification is,
[01:40:43.720 --> 01:40:50.720]  then we won't know how to claim that if it is appropriate.
[01:40:50.720 --> 01:40:55.720]  We really need to go through, I think of all of the things,
[01:40:55.720 --> 01:41:00.720]  if I were going to have someone read one book on law,
[01:41:00.720 --> 01:41:06.720]  it would be O'Connor's Causes of Action.
[01:41:06.720 --> 01:41:13.720]  And it gives you a real good idea of how to make claims under law,
[01:41:13.720 --> 01:41:19.720]  how claims are created, how they're alleged, and how they're defended against.
[01:41:19.720 --> 01:41:24.720]  And for the rest of this segment and the next,
[01:41:24.720 --> 01:41:32.720]  I'm going to read Contract Actions under O'Connor's Causes of Action.
[01:41:32.720 --> 01:41:37.720]  I think you will find this very enlightening.
[01:41:37.720 --> 01:41:38.720]  Definitions.
[01:41:38.720 --> 01:41:44.720]  Following are some of the more common terms used in contract actions, bilateral contract.
[01:41:44.720 --> 01:41:49.720]  A contract is bilateral when there are mutual promises between two parties
[01:41:49.720 --> 01:41:56.720]  making each or both a promisor and a promisee.
[01:41:56.720 --> 01:42:03.720]  Each promise in a bilateral contract must be sufficient consideration for the other,
[01:42:03.720 --> 01:42:06.720]  or both promises are invalid.
[01:42:06.720 --> 01:42:08.720]  That's equitable.
[01:42:08.720 --> 01:42:13.720]  Thus, if either promise is too indefinite for enforcement,
[01:42:13.720 --> 01:42:19.720]  or if either promise is insufficient consideration, both promises are invalid.
[01:42:19.720 --> 01:42:21.720]  The continuing contract.
[01:42:21.720 --> 01:42:27.720]  The contemplated performance and payment are divided into several parts.
[01:42:27.720 --> 01:42:30.720]  When the work is continuous and indivisible,
[01:42:30.720 --> 01:42:37.720]  the payment for the work is made in installments as the work is completed.
[01:42:37.720 --> 01:42:39.720]  Option contract.
[01:42:39.720 --> 01:42:46.720]  An option contract is a right that the owner of property gives another by certain property.
[01:42:46.720 --> 01:42:47.720]  I'm sorry.
[01:42:47.720 --> 01:42:55.720]  An option is a right that the owner of property gives another to buy certain property
[01:42:55.720 --> 01:42:58.720]  at a fixed rate within a certain period.
[01:42:58.720 --> 01:43:02.720]  An option contract has two components.
[01:43:02.720 --> 01:43:06.720]  The underlying contract, which is not binding until accepted.
[01:43:06.720 --> 01:43:14.720]  The covenant to hold open to the optionee the opportunity to accept.
[01:43:14.720 --> 01:43:21.720]  An optionee's acceptance of an option must be unqualified, unambiguous,
[01:43:21.720 --> 01:43:26.720]  and strictly in accordance with the agreements and terms.
[01:43:26.720 --> 01:43:34.720]  When the optionee gives notice or otherwise complies with the terms and conditions of the option,
[01:43:34.720 --> 01:43:38.720]  regardless of whether the consideration for the option exists,
[01:43:38.720 --> 01:43:45.720]  a bilateral executory contract is formed in which one party has the duty to convey
[01:43:45.720 --> 01:43:49.720]  and the other party has the duty to pay.
[01:43:49.720 --> 01:43:51.720]  Contract general.
[01:43:51.720 --> 01:43:57.720]  Generally the term contract refers to an agreement between two or more persons.
[01:43:57.720 --> 01:43:59.720]  Randy, hold that thought. We'll be right back.
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[01:44:03.720 --> 01:44:04.720]  Sorry.
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[01:46:18.720 --> 01:46:30.720]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Rule of Law Radio,
[01:46:30.720 --> 01:46:36.720]  and Steve asked me the perfect question on break.
[01:46:36.720 --> 01:46:43.720]  He said, what code is that coming from? And it's not coming from code.
[01:46:43.720 --> 01:46:48.720]  I'm reading a litigation guide.
[01:46:48.720 --> 01:46:56.720]  Now, I'm going to read this contract section again, but this time I'm going to include where it comes from.
[01:46:56.720 --> 01:47:04.720]  This is how statements are made in legal pleadings.
[01:47:04.720 --> 01:47:11.720]  Contracts. Generally, the term contract refers to an agreement between two or more persons
[01:47:11.720 --> 01:47:17.720]  that creates an obligation to do or not do a particular thing.
[01:47:17.720 --> 01:47:23.720]  Frady V. May 23, Southwest 3D, 588.
[01:47:23.720 --> 01:47:29.720]  Never make a proactive statement of law out of your own mouth.
[01:47:29.720 --> 01:47:32.720]  They always make it from the mouth of the court.
[01:47:32.720 --> 01:47:36.720]  Exactly. This is exactly how you do it.
[01:47:36.720 --> 01:47:44.720]  And when you look at court cases, not so much the pleadings themselves,
[01:47:44.720 --> 01:47:50.720]  the motions and pleadings, but the briefs or points and authorities,
[01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:54.720]  whichever they happen to call them, and the decisions.
[01:47:54.720 --> 01:47:57.720]  They're always written this way.
[01:47:57.720 --> 01:48:03.720]  In the briefing pleading, occasionally they'll make a statement out of their own mouth.
[01:48:03.720 --> 01:48:11.720]  If it's merely there to tie one issue to another and make it reasonable,
[01:48:11.720 --> 01:48:17.720]  but it's not really something going to the adjudication of the case,
[01:48:17.720 --> 01:48:20.720]  they won't always include every single one.
[01:48:20.720 --> 01:48:25.720]  But everything that goes to the adjudication of the case will be done exactly this way.
[01:48:25.720 --> 01:48:31.720]  In the judge's opinion, they will always be done exactly this way.
[01:48:31.720 --> 01:48:37.720]  And the time I have the most fun honing my plagiarist skills
[01:48:37.720 --> 01:48:47.720]  is where I take a section out of a court opinion like this
[01:48:47.720 --> 01:48:54.720]  and drop it into one of my pleadings and readjust the wording enough,
[01:48:54.720 --> 01:49:02.720]  just the, primarily the pronouns and some adjectives so this reads well
[01:49:02.720 --> 01:49:05.720]  in the context of the document that I'm writing,
[01:49:05.720 --> 01:49:11.720]  where in this case the guy, it was a he, he, and in my case it's a she,
[01:49:11.720 --> 01:49:16.720]  I'll change it to she, and just adjust it slightly so it reads correctly,
[01:49:16.720 --> 01:49:23.720]  but effectively use their language in their format.
[01:49:23.720 --> 01:49:30.720]  When the judge reads it, he will know exactly what you have done.
[01:49:30.720 --> 01:49:36.720]  And that will give what you're writing much more credence,
[01:49:36.720 --> 01:49:43.720]  because he knows you're pulling this right out of a court case on point.
[01:49:43.720 --> 01:49:46.720]  So I'm going to keep going through this.
[01:49:46.720 --> 01:49:50.720]  I'm reading this not so much for contracts,
[01:49:50.720 --> 01:49:58.720]  but so that we'll get a better understanding of how legal ease works.
[01:49:58.720 --> 01:50:04.720]  And one of the books I read on legal writing, the first thing it said,
[01:50:04.720 --> 01:50:10.720]  avoid legal ease at all costs.
[01:50:10.720 --> 01:50:18.720]  If you use a term for which you intend a specific meaning, define it.
[01:50:18.720 --> 01:50:22.720]  Either define it before you use it in a definition section
[01:50:22.720 --> 01:50:29.720]  or define it in the section in parentheses.
[01:50:29.720 --> 01:50:30.720]  Okay, so I'm going to move ahead.
[01:50:30.720 --> 01:50:33.720]  This is, you know, in legal ease,
[01:50:33.720 --> 01:50:38.720]  you only use specific legal terms when they're absolutely necessary.
[01:50:38.720 --> 01:50:44.720]  Otherwise, write your document so any eighth grader can read it.
[01:50:44.720 --> 01:50:48.720]  And that's not putting down the judge.
[01:50:48.720 --> 01:50:52.720]  It's because the judge is really, really busy.
[01:50:52.720 --> 01:50:55.720]  If you ever go into court when they're having motion hearings,
[01:50:55.720 --> 01:51:01.720]  he'll have a line of lawyers lined up in front of his bench,
[01:51:01.720 --> 01:51:06.720]  and they'll drop motions on him and he'll read them and render a ruling.
[01:51:06.720 --> 01:51:10.720]  If he has to struggle through your motion,
[01:51:10.720 --> 01:51:14.720]  he's going to struggle with his decision for you.
[01:51:14.720 --> 01:51:22.720]  The judge is accustomed to reading legal writings and legal language.
[01:51:22.720 --> 01:51:31.720]  When he comes across a layman's pleading, it's just plain English.
[01:51:31.720 --> 01:51:32.720]  It's straight English.
[01:51:32.720 --> 01:51:34.720]  He doesn't have to really think about it.
[01:51:34.720 --> 01:51:44.720]  But the difference is if you're not an attorney, don't try to be one.
[01:51:44.720 --> 01:51:52.720]  Right, but when you write, you want to construct your pleading
[01:51:52.720 --> 01:51:59.720]  in a way where the judge will find what he expects to find where he expects to find it.
[01:51:59.720 --> 01:52:01.720]  Exactly.
[01:52:01.720 --> 01:52:08.720]  So he'll find the case law he expects to see, where he expects to see it.
[01:52:08.720 --> 01:52:13.720]  You be in court and you hear these lawyers spouting off this case law,
[01:52:13.720 --> 01:52:18.720]  and the other lawyer will argue against the case law like they got it memorized.
[01:52:18.720 --> 01:52:24.720]  And I've sat there and wonder with all the thousands and thousands of cases,
[01:52:24.720 --> 01:52:26.720]  how do they do that?
[01:52:26.720 --> 01:52:29.720]  Well, they do it with the litigation guides.
[01:52:29.720 --> 01:52:33.720]  What I'm looking at right here.
[01:52:33.720 --> 01:52:41.720]  And O'Connor's Causes of Action has O'Connor's Causes of Action pleadings.
[01:52:41.720 --> 01:52:43.720]  They have all the forms.
[01:52:43.720 --> 01:52:50.720]  One of my favorite stories, Ken, a friend of mine that I go to for civil strategy,
[01:52:50.720 --> 01:52:52.720]  he needs a TRO.
[01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:55.720]  He wrote one up, sent it to me, said, what do you think?
[01:52:55.720 --> 01:52:58.720]  I read it and I told him it was a piece of crap, Ken.
[01:52:58.720 --> 01:52:59.720]  He said, you think you can do better?
[01:52:59.720 --> 01:53:00.720]  It's darn right I could.
[01:53:00.720 --> 01:53:02.720]  Made him up one, sent it.
[01:53:02.720 --> 01:53:05.720]  He went into court, got the TRO, comes out.
[01:53:05.720 --> 01:53:08.720]  The lawyer said, are you an attorney?
[01:53:08.720 --> 01:53:11.720]  And he said, well, I know who my brother is.
[01:53:11.720 --> 01:53:12.720]  Did you write this?
[01:53:12.720 --> 01:53:14.720]  He said, well, I had some help.
[01:53:14.720 --> 01:53:18.720]  He said, this is very good.
[01:53:18.720 --> 01:53:20.720]  Straight out of O'Connor's.
[01:53:20.720 --> 01:53:21.720]  Yeah, Ken told me that.
[01:53:21.720 --> 01:53:23.720]  Showing the blanks.
[01:53:23.720 --> 01:53:26.720]  Yeah, what in the heck is going on?
[01:53:26.720 --> 01:53:31.720]  And I took O'Connor's fill in the blanks and filled in the blanks.
[01:53:31.720 --> 01:53:35.720]  And it occurred to me, this guy's a new lawyer.
[01:53:35.720 --> 01:53:37.720]  They give the new lawyers the process.
[01:53:37.720 --> 01:53:43.720]  And he looked at this pleading and it looked exactly like the ones they use.
[01:53:43.720 --> 01:53:46.720]  And he's thinking, was this guy clairvoyant?
[01:53:46.720 --> 01:53:47.720]  How did he do that?
[01:53:47.720 --> 01:53:51.720]  He didn't know they were using O'Connor's forms.
[01:53:51.720 --> 01:53:54.720]  That's a valuable, valuable lesson.
[01:53:54.720 --> 01:54:02.720]  Never, ever construct a pleading if the local litigation guide for your state
[01:54:02.720 --> 01:54:05.720]  has a standard pleading model.
[01:54:05.720 --> 01:54:06.720]  It provides one.
[01:54:06.720 --> 01:54:13.720]  And if you don't have access to your local or your state's litigation guide,
[01:54:13.720 --> 01:54:15.720]  go to the court.
[01:54:15.720 --> 01:54:21.720]  The court very often has template pleadings that they can just print off.
[01:54:21.720 --> 01:54:24.720]  May cost you a couple of bucks, but so what?
[01:54:24.720 --> 01:54:25.720]  It's a couple of bucks.
[01:54:25.720 --> 01:54:27.720]  Spend the couple of bucks.
[01:54:27.720 --> 01:54:33.720]  California has fill in the blanks right on their California website.
[01:54:33.720 --> 01:54:34.720]  Wow.
[01:54:34.720 --> 01:54:36.720]  Yeah, just check them off.
[01:54:36.720 --> 01:54:39.720]  You don't have to write the pleading, just check them.
[01:54:39.720 --> 01:54:44.720]  So all the proceeds out there who are going through a lot of time and trouble
[01:54:44.720 --> 01:54:49.720]  to construct these very well-researched and well-put-together pleadings,
[01:54:49.720 --> 01:54:54.720]  you give it to this judge, and he doesn't see what he expects to see,
[01:54:54.720 --> 01:54:55.720]  where he expects to see it.
[01:54:55.720 --> 01:54:57.720]  Now he's got to read the whole thing.
[01:54:57.720 --> 01:54:58.720]  He is annoyed.
[01:54:58.720 --> 01:55:03.720]  And he sees 15 or 20 cases in there he's never seen before.
[01:55:03.720 --> 01:55:08.720]  Do you really think he's going to stop and go drag out the books
[01:55:08.720 --> 01:55:11.720]  and read those cases?
[01:55:11.720 --> 01:55:14.720]  Denied.
[01:55:14.720 --> 01:55:17.720]  Now that may not be right,
[01:55:17.720 --> 01:55:20.720]  but that's how it works in the world I live in,
[01:55:20.720 --> 01:55:24.720]  and I've had a number of attorneys who just had one two days ago say,
[01:55:24.720 --> 01:55:26.720]  you are exactly right.
[01:55:26.720 --> 01:55:28.720]  That's exactly what they'll do.
[01:55:28.720 --> 01:55:37.720]  So we're telling you there's a very specific way to write pleadings.
[01:55:37.720 --> 01:55:43.720]  There's also a very easy way to get that done because the lawyers are lazy
[01:55:43.720 --> 01:55:45.720]  and they all use the litigation guides.
[01:55:45.720 --> 01:55:47.720]  You use the litigation guide.
[01:55:47.720 --> 01:55:51.720]  The only way the judge will know you're not a lawyer is
[01:55:51.720 --> 01:55:54.720]  he doesn't see a lawyer's name at the end.
[01:55:54.720 --> 01:55:57.720]  That will give you a good reading.
[01:55:57.720 --> 01:56:02.720]  And in the next few shows I want to read some more of these.
[01:56:02.720 --> 01:56:05.720]  So you begin to hear how this is structured,
[01:56:05.720 --> 01:56:11.720]  and we'll go through some of the issues that come up a lot
[01:56:11.720 --> 01:56:16.720]  because when we talk about the elements,
[01:56:16.720 --> 01:56:19.720]  you have to address every single one.
[01:56:19.720 --> 01:56:25.720]  This book started out with saying that the very first thing you should do
[01:56:25.720 --> 01:56:29.720]  is write the charge to the jury.
[01:56:29.720 --> 01:56:31.720]  Start at the end.
[01:56:31.720 --> 01:56:36.720]  What are you going to direct the jury to pay attention to
[01:56:36.720 --> 01:56:40.720]  in order to make a determination in your case?
[01:56:40.720 --> 01:56:49.720]  Now, what discovery will you have to do in order to secure the evidence you need
[01:56:49.720 --> 01:56:53.720]  to prove up each one of those issues?
[01:56:53.720 --> 01:56:59.720]  Now you start backing up from those, and that's how you develop your case.
[01:56:59.720 --> 01:57:04.720]  I had never, I'd come across that years ago and I somehow missed it.
[01:57:04.720 --> 01:57:07.720]  But absolutely we start from the front.
[01:57:07.720 --> 01:57:11.720]  We don't know what we're going to wind up when we get to the end.
[01:57:11.720 --> 01:57:14.720]  And that's crazy.
[01:57:14.720 --> 01:57:19.720]  Get the pattern jury charges.
[01:57:19.720 --> 01:57:23.720]  Get the pattern jury charges for whatever cause of action
[01:57:23.720 --> 01:57:29.720]  or whatever criminal issue you're either prosecuting
[01:57:29.720 --> 01:57:33.720]  or defending for our purposes, mostly defending.
[01:57:33.720 --> 01:57:36.720]  The first thing to get is the pattern jury charges.
[01:57:36.720 --> 01:57:38.720]  Everything will be in there.
[01:57:38.720 --> 01:57:40.720]  Now you know what you have to prove.
[01:57:40.720 --> 01:57:44.720]  Now go to the litigation guide and it will tell you exactly
[01:57:44.720 --> 01:57:48.720]  how to argue each of those in your state.
[01:57:48.720 --> 01:57:54.720]  And there may be a section in there that's not actually addressed.
[01:57:54.720 --> 01:57:58.720]  That's the only time you have to do your own research.
[01:57:58.720 --> 01:58:02.720]  And if you have one of those, that's the only part
[01:58:02.720 --> 01:58:06.720]  the judge wants to have to pay attention to.
[01:58:06.720 --> 01:58:09.720]  He wants to be able to cruise through this document,
[01:58:09.720 --> 01:58:16.720]  get to that part, and do what judges are there to do.
[01:58:16.720 --> 01:58:20.720]  A lot of litigation guys.
[01:58:20.720 --> 01:58:24.720]  Go ahead.
[01:58:24.720 --> 01:58:28.720]  He wants to fill in the spaces that are not filled in already.
[01:58:28.720 --> 01:58:30.720]  That's what he wants to do.
[01:58:30.720 --> 01:58:33.720]  That will give you a better reading.
[01:58:33.720 --> 01:58:35.720]  And sorry we're out of time.
[01:58:35.720 --> 01:58:37.720]  This is Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore.
[01:58:37.720 --> 01:58:39.720]  Thank you all for listening.
[01:58:39.720 --> 01:58:43.720]  We will be back next week, same time, same station.
[01:58:43.720 --> 01:58:47.720]  Tune in, go to our sponsors, help us keep this on the air.
[01:58:47.720 --> 01:58:49.720]  Thank you and good night.
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