ROL_2014-04-25_16k_Hr3-4.timecode
[00:00.000 --> 00:07.880] This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates, online
[00:07.880 --> 00:08.880] at thelibertybeat.com.
[00:08.880 --> 00:14.400] I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Friday, April 25th, 2014.
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[01:02.560 --> 01:07.280] In the news, sweeping changes regarding gun laws in two states this week, in Georgia.
[01:07.280 --> 01:11.200] Governor Nathan Deal has signed legislation into law that will allow guns to be carried
[01:11.200 --> 01:13.820] into bars, churches, and government buildings.
[01:13.820 --> 01:18.720] The Los Angeles Times reports the Safe Carry Protection Act takes effect July 1st.
[01:18.720 --> 01:23.160] In Kansas, meanwhile, Governor Sam Brownback has signed into law legislation making it
[01:23.160 --> 01:26.480] legal statewide to openly carry firearms.
[01:26.480 --> 01:30.720] At the same time, the Associated Press reports the legislation strips local governments of
[01:30.720 --> 01:32.760] their gun-regulating power.
[01:32.760 --> 01:36.200] The change takes effect July 1st.
[01:36.200 --> 01:40.540] Vermont is poised to become the first state to enact labeling for foods containing genetically
[01:40.540 --> 01:42.280] modified organisms.
[01:42.280 --> 01:47.200] On Wednesday, the Vermont House voted 114 to 30 in favor of the bill, while the state
[01:47.200 --> 01:49.400] senate approved the measure last week.
[01:49.400 --> 01:53.840] The law also sets up a special defense fund to fight off expected lawsuits from food manufacturers
[01:53.840 --> 01:56.680] and biotech companies like Monsanto.
[01:56.680 --> 02:01.600] The measures go into effect July 1st of 2016.
[02:01.600 --> 02:05.680] Students in California will have their yearly standardized testing and reporting exam replaced
[02:05.680 --> 02:10.600] by Common Core, a national curriculum backed by Obama's Education Department.
[02:10.600 --> 02:15.640] Some educators are calling the new Common Core test confusing and developmentally inappropriate.
[02:15.640 --> 02:19.760] Check out theLibertyBeat.com for the full report to learn which states have banned the
[02:19.760 --> 02:20.760] curriculum.
[02:20.760 --> 02:24.680] Support for the Liberty Beat comes from Dorothy Erminger at Cap Star Lending.
[02:24.680 --> 02:27.720] Dorothy can walk you through the ins and outs of buying a home.
[02:27.720 --> 02:32.640] Give her a call 512-343-6494 or apply online.
[02:32.640 --> 02:36.680] Call Dorothy dot com, NMLS 216624.
[02:36.680 --> 02:40.600] Support also comes from My Magic Mud, All Natural Teeth Whitener.
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[02:51.760 --> 02:56.080] This is the Liberty Beat for Friday, April 25th, 2014.
[02:56.080 --> 03:18.240] Check out the website at theLibertyBeat.com.
[03:18.240 --> 03:47.840] The Liberty Beat for Friday, April 25th, 2014.
[03:47.840 --> 03:48.840] Hi everybody.
[03:48.840 --> 03:52.520] This is Joe Esquivel, Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Rule of Law Radio.
[03:52.520 --> 03:57.360] We've been talking about facts tonight, and pretty much-
[03:57.360 --> 04:00.360] We've been talking about a lot of stuff.
[04:00.360 --> 04:01.840] We're all over the place.
[04:01.840 --> 04:05.800] Well, we've been all over, but we haven't because they all pertain-
[04:05.800 --> 04:06.800] To facts.
[04:06.800 --> 04:09.560] To facts.
[04:09.560 --> 04:16.280] And I mean, even when Randy brought up the how to move around in Word, how to use Word,
[04:16.280 --> 04:20.320] it all relates to the facts.
[04:20.320 --> 04:27.400] And it's only in getting these facts out, Steve, that we're going to have any positive
[04:27.400 --> 04:29.600] results at all.
[04:29.600 --> 04:34.160] You can't bring conjecture to the court and opinion your own opinion to the court and
[04:34.160 --> 04:35.160] expect to win.
[04:35.160 --> 04:37.160] That ain't going to happen.
[04:37.160 --> 04:38.400] No, it's not.
[04:38.400 --> 04:42.880] And you know, so for facts for me, I mean, facts are very, very important.
[04:42.880 --> 04:45.400] Well, that's all you deal with every day.
[04:45.400 --> 04:46.400] That's it.
[04:46.400 --> 04:49.880] I'm required to look at all of the facts.
[04:49.880 --> 04:51.600] That's your nine to five life.
[04:51.600 --> 05:02.160] And to make a reasonable, how do I say, finding of what was to be done, what was done, what
[05:02.160 --> 05:06.480] was not done, according to the facts that are presented to me.
[05:06.480 --> 05:12.120] Now, you don't just flat come out in your affidavits and say, Bank of America broke
[05:12.120 --> 05:13.880] the law when they did this.
[05:13.880 --> 05:14.880] No.
[05:14.880 --> 05:24.320] I believe what you do is you state that the law says this, Bank of America did that.
[05:24.320 --> 05:25.320] And leave it at that.
[05:25.320 --> 05:26.320] Let the judge.
[05:26.320 --> 05:33.200] In your statement of facts, you don't even include any law, right?
[05:33.200 --> 05:39.760] We're investigating facts as it pertains to the law and statutory requirements of law.
[05:39.760 --> 05:41.240] You state all your facts.
[05:41.240 --> 05:46.480] I state all the facts in the analysis, however- Then you go over and say, this is a law that
[05:46.480 --> 05:48.280] applies to those facts.
[05:48.280 --> 05:49.280] Correct.
[05:49.280 --> 05:54.280] And then in the factual affidavit, I state strictly facts.
[05:54.280 --> 05:59.440] I, Joseph Esquivel, have looked at a document pertaining to this.
[05:59.440 --> 06:06.520] And I give all of the facts that relate to that document, the date, the names, the type
[06:06.520 --> 06:10.800] of document, and I state all the facts.
[06:10.800 --> 06:20.000] There is no legal conjecture, there's no legal opinion, there's no citation, it's just facts.
[06:20.000 --> 06:25.560] And then those facts are used as facts.
[06:25.560 --> 06:30.320] The analysis is strictly an analysis.
[06:30.320 --> 06:40.400] But when you put them together, the one statement of facts backs up the analysis.
[06:40.400 --> 06:44.920] And that's how the analysis is to be used, that we do.
[06:44.920 --> 06:51.120] So if you- We have a couple callers on.
[06:51.120 --> 06:52.120] Oh, good.
[06:52.120 --> 06:57.000] Why don't we go to Laura in Arizona?
[06:57.000 --> 07:01.720] Laura, what have you got?
[07:01.720 --> 07:10.440] I have a judgment for a child support debt that was issued in the state of Colorado.
[07:10.440 --> 07:20.240] I am now in my 19th year trying to collect this debt.
[07:20.240 --> 07:26.920] I have been unsuccessful in getting the responsible party to pay the debt.
[07:26.920 --> 07:31.040] And right now, the responsible party has moved to Southern California.
[07:31.040 --> 07:40.120] So I need to register the debt with the state of California to try to collect it there.
[07:40.120 --> 07:43.160] This says Arizona.
[07:43.160 --> 07:45.400] Are you in Arizona at the moment?
[07:45.400 --> 07:46.400] Yes.
[07:46.400 --> 07:48.840] Is the child in Arizona?
[07:48.840 --> 07:56.320] Yes, and the children right now, this debt has gone on so long, the children are now
[07:56.320 --> 07:57.320] in Arizona.
[07:57.320 --> 08:02.440] Okay, I see, the children are already beyond the age to collect.
[08:02.440 --> 08:03.920] This is just an old debt.
[08:03.920 --> 08:05.760] That makes it more difficult.
[08:05.760 --> 08:10.080] I was going to suggest you move to Texas, attorney general in Texas take care of that
[08:10.080 --> 08:11.080] for you.
[08:11.080 --> 08:12.080] Right away.
[08:12.080 --> 08:17.120] They'd go to Colorado and snatch him up and bring him to Texas and he'd stay in Texas
[08:17.120 --> 08:19.040] till he paid for it.
[08:19.040 --> 08:22.600] Would he be given a room at the Best Western?
[08:22.600 --> 08:26.360] Oh, yeah, he'd be given room all right.
[08:26.360 --> 08:35.320] I had a my sister-in-law's boyfriend worked with a guy that was from Arkansas and he got
[08:35.320 --> 08:37.640] a divorce and his wife moved to Texas.
[08:37.640 --> 08:40.280] He had never been to Texas in his life.
[08:40.280 --> 08:44.560] And they went to Arkansas and picked him up and brought him to Texas.
[08:44.560 --> 08:49.920] And the judge told him, we'll let you work and pay off this debt, but you're not leaving
[08:49.920 --> 08:52.880] Texas until you get it paid.
[08:52.880 --> 08:58.040] Ouch, and Texas is pretty tough on that, but most states are.
[08:58.040 --> 09:01.240] Have you talked to your attorney general?
[09:01.240 --> 09:11.240] Yes, I have and I have gone to the child support enforcement agencies to try to get their restrictions.
[09:11.240 --> 09:19.200] And their issue is because this debt, give you just real quick background knowledge.
[09:19.200 --> 09:27.840] Then my ex-husband and I, we lived in the state of Colorado and had our kids there.
[09:27.840 --> 09:30.840] We got divorced.
[09:30.840 --> 09:38.320] The house and this debt comes under USC 523A5.
[09:38.320 --> 09:42.040] What happened is I was responsible for the first mortgage, he was responsible for the
[09:42.040 --> 09:46.040] second mortgage, he stopped paying on the second mortgage.
[09:46.040 --> 09:50.920] I ended up selling the house, when you sell a house, you have to pay all the banks off
[09:50.920 --> 09:53.720] before you can transfer that title free and clear.
[09:53.720 --> 09:59.600] So I had to pay what was his signed debt from the divorce.
[09:59.600 --> 10:04.560] When I sold the house, I had to pay his debt from any proceeds that were.
[10:04.560 --> 10:09.560] Okay, so that part, portion wasn't child support.
[10:09.560 --> 10:19.840] It actually comes under USC 523A5, which is part of the child support umbrella under housing.
[10:19.840 --> 10:29.520] And the father tries to go bankrupt on it and I countered that claim of bankruptcy and
[10:29.520 --> 10:34.040] the federal judge in Colorado ruled in my favor that this debt was not dischargeable
[10:34.040 --> 10:38.080] because it was considered an element of child support.
[10:38.080 --> 10:43.600] So then the father turned around and found a local judge to temporarily make the peer
[10:43.600 --> 10:48.560] because the judge said, well, you paid the debt, so problem solved.
[10:48.560 --> 10:55.560] I filed an appeal with the state of Colorado and I won under the Robinson v Robinson case,
[10:55.560 --> 11:01.440] which says just because one party pays another party the debt, that doesn't absolve the
[11:01.440 --> 11:03.560] original debtor.
[11:03.560 --> 11:16.040] Okay, so this is, you're saying that the attorney generals have special powers to enforce child
[11:16.040 --> 11:21.600] support and generally they're pretty good at it because they tend to keep a part of
[11:21.600 --> 11:26.760] what they collect, but this one is different.
[11:26.760 --> 11:29.040] Does the husband have any assets?
[11:29.040 --> 11:39.280] Well, as a matter of fact, he has been buying and selling property, homes in Southern California.
[11:39.280 --> 11:44.360] And what will happen is every time I haul him into court, I've tried to go the contempt
[11:44.360 --> 11:51.040] route, anything that I can think of, what he'll do is he'll file a quick claim deed
[11:51.040 --> 11:56.560] on his properties, transfer the properties to his girlfriend and then after the hearing
[11:56.560 --> 12:03.240] about 60 to 90 days later, he files a replication of those quit claim deeds.
[12:03.240 --> 12:12.600] Oh, does he file the quit claim after your claim was made against him?
[12:12.600 --> 12:17.240] He files on the properties that he owns in Southern California.
[12:17.240 --> 12:21.560] He knows that I want to go after his assets.
[12:21.560 --> 12:27.800] So what he does is he takes the real estate property that he has, those deeds and he files
[12:27.800 --> 12:33.880] a quit claim deed on the current properties that he owns, transfers those into his girlfriend's
[12:33.880 --> 12:34.880] name.
[12:34.880 --> 12:41.920] That, wait, quit claim don't help him.
[12:41.920 --> 12:47.400] The girlfriend would only have the claim against the property that he would have had he filed
[12:47.400 --> 12:50.480] a less spendings against these properties.
[12:50.480 --> 12:52.360] I'm sorry, have I filed a what?
[12:52.360 --> 12:54.160] Oh, wait, wait, let me back up.
[12:54.160 --> 12:56.880] Do you have the judgment against your husband?
[12:56.880 --> 12:57.880] Absolutely.
[12:57.880 --> 13:04.320] And I also have what's called, I get it basically updated annually via...
[13:04.320 --> 13:12.480] Okay, petition the court for a claim that you find out where his properties are.
[13:12.480 --> 13:16.360] Go in and file a less spendings on each one of them.
[13:16.360 --> 13:20.280] In California, you'll have to get a lawyer to do it.
[13:20.280 --> 13:27.280] You might go to a lawyer and offer a lawyer a portion of what you can get, have him file
[13:27.280 --> 13:30.440] a less spendings on all of these properties.
[13:30.440 --> 13:32.760] Now your husband can't sell them.
[13:32.760 --> 13:40.440] And if your husband subsequently files a quit claim, he can only quit claim the claim that
[13:40.440 --> 13:42.040] he has.
[13:42.040 --> 13:47.200] Any claim that's against the property stays against the property and it transfers to whoever
[13:47.200 --> 13:49.240] he quit claims to.
[13:49.240 --> 13:53.000] Won't help him.
[13:53.000 --> 13:54.000] You need a less spendings.
[13:54.000 --> 13:55.000] Okay.
[13:55.000 --> 14:01.480] Doesn't she have to file suit to have a cause number to put on the less spendings?
[14:01.480 --> 14:02.480] Nope.
[14:02.480 --> 14:10.040] Less spendings, if she has a claim against him, then she can file a less spendings because
[14:10.040 --> 14:12.480] she has the claim.
[14:12.480 --> 14:19.840] In Texas, the Texas law says that if you have a claim against another party, you have a
[14:19.840 --> 14:26.200] less spendings against his property, whether it's filed or not.
[14:26.200 --> 14:30.160] It's better to have it filed, but you have it anyway.
[14:30.160 --> 14:35.600] And I suspect the law is going to be similar in California, but better if you have a less
[14:35.600 --> 14:38.280] spendings actually filed.
[14:38.280 --> 14:44.280] If you already have the judgment, now you have the standing to file the less spendings
[14:44.280 --> 14:49.600] as a claim against the property to satisfy the judgment and file the less spendings with
[14:49.600 --> 14:53.720] the judgment in the record.
[14:53.720 --> 14:57.160] Now you tie up all of these properties, nobody's going to buy them with that less spendings
[14:57.160 --> 14:58.800] in there.
[14:58.800 --> 15:10.040] Okay, now he is also self-employed as a private insurance salesman, he's like an underwriter
[15:10.040 --> 15:14.400] for RVs and things like that.
[15:14.400 --> 15:19.880] But with this girlfriend that he's had for over 10 years, can I do anything with Joinder?
[15:19.880 --> 15:25.000] Because what he does is he claims to the court that he's not working, but she's employed
[15:25.000 --> 15:30.080] by a hospital as an RN.
[15:30.080 --> 15:34.960] Is California a community property state?
[15:34.960 --> 15:35.960] Yes.
[15:35.960 --> 15:44.520] I'm going to bet you can claim half of her salary.
[15:44.520 --> 15:51.760] Because half of everything they accrue while they're together is his, so you can make a
[15:51.760 --> 15:53.720] claim against his.
[15:53.720 --> 16:00.280] You might just cause some marital discord or non-marital discord.
[16:00.280 --> 16:05.800] But that's a harder fight to fight than a less spendings against these properties.
[16:05.800 --> 16:07.800] You tie them up immediately.
[16:07.800 --> 16:15.760] Okay, and then I know that when he also, this was years ago, he also wasn't paying his monthly
[16:15.760 --> 16:21.920] support, and so because of that I was able to, the state agency helped me out in doing
[16:21.920 --> 16:24.920] what's called an IRS federal tax intercept.
[16:24.920 --> 16:31.200] Do you know, can a private party who has a judgment for child support, can they do that
[16:31.200 --> 16:33.720] and work that out with the IRS?
[16:33.720 --> 16:36.280] Okay, hang on, we're about to go to break.
[16:36.280 --> 16:38.280] Let's pick this up on the other side.
[16:38.280 --> 16:48.840] This is Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, we live on our radio, I call it number 512-646-1984,
[16:48.840 --> 16:54.680] Danny, Kenny, I see you there, we'll pick you up when we finish with Laura, we'll be
[16:54.680 --> 17:00.760] right back.
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[18:59.000 --> 19:00.000] collectors now.
[19:00.000 --> 19:12.800] You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, l-l-l-LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[19:12.800 --> 19:18.720] Well don't let nothing get to you, only the father can deliver you, so don't let bad
[19:18.720 --> 19:22.720] mind people hurt you, until they can get behind you.
[19:22.720 --> 19:29.080] Okay, we are back, Brent Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Joe Esquivel, moved by radio, and we're talking
[19:29.080 --> 19:34.920] to Laura in Arizona, and we'll kind of kick this around on the break, if you try to go
[19:34.920 --> 19:44.160] after the girlfriend's salary or a portion of it, you're going to get into a big legal
[19:44.160 --> 19:49.600] battle that's likely to cost you more for the fight than you can get out of it at the
[19:49.600 --> 19:50.600] end.
[19:50.600 --> 19:57.840] Now that might not do right, but in the real world we live in, things are not fair and
[19:57.840 --> 20:00.920] we have to deal with the realities.
[20:00.920 --> 20:06.480] On the other hand, if you can locate his properties, and that's easy enough, just go down to whatever
[20:06.480 --> 20:11.960] accounting you think he has property in, and do a search for his name on the county records,
[20:11.960 --> 20:17.960] you might be able to do that from the internet, and then just contact a lawyer and get a lawyer
[20:17.960 --> 20:23.600] to file your less spendings for you, on all the properties you can find, now he's stuck
[20:23.600 --> 20:28.520] with them, he can't do anything with them until that list is off of there.
[20:28.520 --> 20:30.480] Then he'll have to take her to court.
[20:30.480 --> 20:36.160] Yeah, and he's not going to want to do that, because you're going to come into court with
[20:36.160 --> 20:42.040] your judgment, and court's going to grant you a claim against at least one of the properties
[20:42.040 --> 20:48.000] enough to satisfy the judgment, because the judgment's res judicata is from another state
[20:48.000 --> 20:51.080] so this court can't revisit it.
[20:51.080 --> 20:55.920] They have to give full faith and credit to the judgment.
[20:55.920 --> 21:04.200] So my suggestion is less spendings, it's actually what a less spendings is designed for.
[21:04.200 --> 21:09.040] Yeah, the less spendings ties property up.
[21:09.040 --> 21:13.440] Nobody in their right mind is going to go to the county records and see a less spendings
[21:13.440 --> 21:16.960] and think, oh, I think I'll buy that.
[21:16.960 --> 21:23.440] No, that's like putting a rattlesnake in the cake box.
[21:23.440 --> 21:31.960] The point of the less spendings is now you can't claim that you did not have prior knowledge.
[21:31.960 --> 21:39.640] He's going to sell the property tomorrow, and when the clerk opens at, say, eight o'clock
[21:39.640 --> 21:43.760] in the morning, you're down there and you file a less spendings, and at ten o'clock
[21:43.760 --> 21:50.280] they sign the papers, at least here in Texas as far as the court's concerned.
[21:50.280 --> 21:55.360] The one who bought the property knew about the less spendings.
[21:55.360 --> 22:01.160] Once it became a part of the public record, everyone is imputed to have knowledge of what
[22:01.160 --> 22:02.160] is there.
[22:02.160 --> 22:09.040] Basically, it just puts you on notice, hey, there's an action going on.
[22:09.040 --> 22:15.000] So if you accept the property, you accept the claim.
[22:15.000 --> 22:17.920] So does that make that sound like a solution, Laura?
[22:17.920 --> 22:26.720] It does, and so what I think you said is I don't have to register the judgment in California
[22:26.720 --> 22:28.440] to do the less spendings?
[22:28.440 --> 22:29.440] No.
[22:29.440 --> 22:37.280] Well, it would be better if you attach the judgment to the less spendings.
[22:37.280 --> 22:39.320] But as far as I know, it's not necessary.
[22:39.320 --> 22:45.120] A lawyer in California will tell you if you need to attach the judgment.
[22:45.120 --> 22:46.120] Okay.
[22:46.120 --> 22:53.040] I'd do it just to tell the world what a scumbag he is, what an irresponsible man he's been.
[22:53.040 --> 22:57.240] Yeah, and somebody can still come and buy the property, but they'd have to pay off
[22:57.240 --> 22:58.240] your judgment.
[22:58.240 --> 22:59.240] Yep.
[22:59.240 --> 23:06.200] Okay, and this question of kind of flying under the radar with work, do you guys have
[23:06.200 --> 23:12.840] any other suggestions in terms of ideas on how to collect something like this?
[23:12.840 --> 23:16.480] Yeah, but none of them are legal.
[23:16.480 --> 23:22.760] Yeah, the only other is to file the judgment.
[23:22.760 --> 23:26.920] For the most part, there is no debtor's prison.
[23:26.920 --> 23:31.720] There is kind of sorta, but there's no debtor's prison.
[23:31.720 --> 23:36.480] So the only way to get your money from him is to go after his assets.
[23:36.480 --> 23:37.480] Right.
[23:37.480 --> 23:40.520] If he didn't have any assets, you'd be out of luck.
[23:40.520 --> 23:43.960] You don't want him in prison anyway, because if he's in prison, he's not making the money
[23:43.960 --> 23:46.560] that he owes you.
[23:46.560 --> 23:52.560] Yeah, this is probably the slickest way to get this done.
[23:52.560 --> 23:56.580] And as to under the radar, you don't say anything to him.
[23:56.580 --> 23:57.580] Don't make any waves.
[23:57.580 --> 24:02.360] Just go to an attorney and get an attorney to slip those filings in the county record.
[24:02.360 --> 24:08.680] He is not likely to even know they're there until he tries to sell a property.
[24:08.680 --> 24:11.840] And then he's liable to call you all kinds of dirty names.
[24:11.840 --> 24:19.600] Then he's going to get real excited because he's going to lose a deal and now all his
[24:19.600 --> 24:22.720] properties are typed up.
[24:22.720 --> 24:28.520] But if he sues you to remove the less pendants, then you countersue for a judgment to collect
[24:28.520 --> 24:29.520] your client.
[24:29.520 --> 24:35.920] And he said he's not going to want to sue you.
[24:35.920 --> 24:39.940] This is probably the slickest way of getting it from him because now you put the squeeze
[24:39.940 --> 24:40.940] on him.
[24:40.940 --> 24:45.460] If he's got a whole bunch of properties and he's having to pay the mortgages on these
[24:45.460 --> 24:49.600] properties and he needs to flip them and he can't, it'll bankrupt him.
[24:49.600 --> 24:51.560] Yeah, he's going to go broke quick.
[24:51.560 --> 24:58.360] It'll cost him a whole lot more than what he owes you, real fast.
[24:58.360 --> 25:03.320] And he'll still owe you.
[25:03.320 --> 25:09.720] And with that, because I'm coming up on the 20th anniversary of the judgment, I have to
[25:09.720 --> 25:14.920] file a renewal prior to that expiration date.
[25:14.920 --> 25:20.680] Do you have any idea how far out something like that should be done?
[25:20.680 --> 25:29.080] Well, the sooner you file it, I'm not sure, this would depend on the specific laws, not
[25:29.080 --> 25:35.320] only in Colorado, but in the county that you're in or the district that you're in, the district
[25:35.320 --> 25:40.000] that has jurisdiction, the one that granted the judgment.
[25:40.000 --> 25:47.360] You'd need to call that court and ask when the renewal can be filed.
[25:47.360 --> 25:49.600] I'm sure they're going to have a time range.
[25:49.600 --> 25:50.600] Okay.
[25:50.600 --> 25:55.120] You're not going to be able to file 10 renewals at once, so you're going to have to wait
[25:55.120 --> 25:56.120] so long.
[25:56.120 --> 26:00.000] So there's going to be a start date and an end date, and they can tell you what that
[26:00.000 --> 26:01.000] is.
[26:01.000 --> 26:02.000] Oh, okay.
[26:02.000 --> 26:07.920] But I think if it's like everywhere else, it's just a notice of renewal and that's
[26:07.920 --> 26:11.320] just to tell the court that you're still trying to collect it.
[26:11.320 --> 26:12.320] Okay.
[26:12.320 --> 26:22.680] It would probably be worth it to talk to a real estate attorney in Colorado.
[26:22.680 --> 26:25.880] They're real good about giving you a little piece of information.
[26:25.880 --> 26:29.400] So if you ask them a real direct question, they'll probably give you a real direct answer
[26:29.400 --> 26:31.400] on something that simple.
[26:31.400 --> 26:32.400] Okay.
[26:32.400 --> 26:33.400] Okay.
[26:33.400 --> 26:35.400] Is that about it?
[26:35.400 --> 26:36.400] Yes.
[26:36.400 --> 26:39.280] I appreciate you taking my call.
[26:39.280 --> 26:42.480] You are welcome, and good luck on collecting that.
[26:42.480 --> 26:43.920] If it works, give us a call.
[26:43.920 --> 26:44.920] Let us know.
[26:44.920 --> 26:45.920] Oh, I will.
[26:45.920 --> 26:46.920] Definitely.
[26:46.920 --> 26:47.920] Okay.
[26:47.920 --> 26:48.920] Thank you, Laura.
[26:48.920 --> 26:52.640] Now we're going to go to Danny in Tennessee.
[26:52.640 --> 26:54.440] Hello, Dan.
[26:54.440 --> 26:55.440] Randy.
[26:55.440 --> 26:59.200] How's it going back down there in Hillbilly land?
[26:59.200 --> 27:03.160] Well, it's just all right as opposed.
[27:03.160 --> 27:10.200] I took some action on a suggestion you made a while back about writing the original lender
[27:10.200 --> 27:18.080] about the power, but verifying the power of attorney, a person signing an assignment of
[27:18.080 --> 27:31.360] their interest in a loan that they had made, and you said they don't ever answer back.
[27:31.360 --> 27:34.600] Did you get a response?
[27:34.600 --> 27:40.240] Well, what I got was it's not deliverable as addressed.
[27:40.240 --> 27:47.640] And when I checked on it further on the USPS website, because I thought maybe the office
[27:47.640 --> 27:51.560] just wasn't there anymore, and that's why it was returned.
[27:51.560 --> 27:56.760] So I just want to check the address, and looking for the zip code with that address, they don't
[27:56.760 --> 27:59.960] recognize that address.
[27:59.960 --> 28:09.200] And the problem is the name for the town that they gave, and I know some other website identified
[28:09.200 --> 28:14.200] that as being a train station, not a...
[28:14.200 --> 28:21.520] And the town is, on the map, is like a few miles away or so.
[28:21.520 --> 28:33.000] And using the Google Maps and the street view, they will see the associated bank sign on
[28:33.000 --> 28:41.480] the street at the address, the street address, but not the city name, like Jason City, about
[28:41.480 --> 28:45.240] 10 miles down the road.
[28:45.240 --> 28:49.000] So the document is fraudulent on its face.
[28:49.000 --> 28:57.120] Well, yeah, that's sort of what my question is, is it just how much of a problem is that
[28:57.120 --> 28:58.120] for them?
[28:58.120 --> 29:01.120] That's a serious problem.
[29:01.120 --> 29:03.000] The person who...
[29:03.000 --> 29:11.120] They identified themselves as being who they were, but when you checked, they couldn't
[29:11.120 --> 29:18.040] be who they said they were, because they used a fictitious address.
[29:18.040 --> 29:21.680] The address is part of who they are.
[29:21.680 --> 29:22.680] Yeah.
[29:22.680 --> 29:29.680] And this is the original day of trust that this name and address is in.
[29:29.680 --> 29:31.680] Is the company still in business?
[29:31.680 --> 29:32.680] Wait a minute.
[29:32.680 --> 29:33.680] Oh, okay.
[29:33.680 --> 29:40.360] Well, the associated bank is, you know, this transfer is done because they were getting
[29:40.360 --> 29:43.320] out of it, because they'd gotten in trouble and had...
[29:43.320 --> 29:46.600] Okay, wait, wait, wait, hold on, we're about to go to break.
[29:46.600 --> 29:53.920] This is Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, Steve Skidmore, and somebody else I forget.
[29:53.920 --> 30:01.000] We'll be right back, it's been a long day.
[30:01.000 --> 30:05.280] The Ten Commandments are a cornerstone of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.
[30:05.280 --> 30:09.040] If you're an educated person, you should probably know them, regardless of your religion.
[30:09.040 --> 30:13.120] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll be right back with a tip to help you remember one of
[30:13.120 --> 30:15.680] the Ten Commandments.
[30:15.680 --> 30:17.280] Privacy is under attack.
[30:17.280 --> 30:20.880] When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[30:20.880 --> 30:25.640] And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish, too.
[30:25.640 --> 30:30.680] So protect your rights, say no to surveillance, and keep your information to yourself.
[30:30.680 --> 30:33.400] Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
[30:33.400 --> 30:37.680] This public service announcement is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search
[30:37.680 --> 30:41.240] engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing.
[30:41.240 --> 30:45.160] Start over with StartPage.
[30:45.160 --> 30:49.000] I remember the Ninth Commandment by thinking about the bottom of the ninth inning of a
[30:49.000 --> 30:51.200] baseball game when the stakes are high.
[30:51.200 --> 30:56.400] If an umpire purposely fudged a call to help his favorite team win, he would be breaking
[30:56.400 --> 30:59.840] commandment number nine that says, don't bear false witness.
[30:59.840 --> 31:02.800] Bearing false witness is essentially lying.
[31:02.800 --> 31:06.960] It could involve changing facts, making up information, or giving false testimony.
[31:06.960 --> 31:11.080] The next time you need to recall the Ninth Commandment, think of the ninth inning of
[31:11.080 --> 31:12.080] a baseball game.
[31:12.080 --> 31:17.080] If the umpire can't bear to see his favorite team lose, he might break the Ninth Commandment
[31:17.080 --> 31:19.120] that forbids us to bear false witness.
[31:19.120 --> 31:21.320] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[31:21.320 --> 31:23.760] More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
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[31:59.440 --> 32:05.120] Rule of Law Radio is proud to offer the Rule of Law traffic seminar.
[32:05.120 --> 32:08.960] In today's America, we live in an us-against-them society, and if we the people are ever going
[32:08.960 --> 32:12.480] to have a free society, then we're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[32:12.480 --> 32:16.120] Among those rights are the right to travel freely from place to place, the right to act
[32:16.120 --> 32:20.160] in our own private capacity, and most importantly, the right to due process of law.
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[32:24.000 --> 32:25.360] our rights through due process.
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[33:32.840 --> 33:51.440] Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[33:51.440 --> 33:54.280] Before we left, we were talking to Danny in Tennessee.
[33:54.280 --> 33:57.760] And Danny, do you remember where you were at, sir?
[33:57.760 --> 34:09.680] Well, approximately at, you know, this envelope returned to me is not deliverable as addressed.
[34:09.680 --> 34:10.680] Okay.
[34:10.680 --> 34:14.960] That was in the Deer Trust.
[34:14.960 --> 34:16.120] Okay.
[34:16.120 --> 34:21.880] So you say that, now, is this the original lender or is this the servicer, who are we
[34:21.880 --> 34:22.880] talking about?
[34:22.880 --> 34:24.880] Well, the original lender, yeah.
[34:24.880 --> 34:25.880] Okay.
[34:25.880 --> 34:28.320] And the original Deer Trust.
[34:28.320 --> 34:31.600] Well, they could have moved out of that building.
[34:31.600 --> 34:32.600] Well, yeah.
[34:32.600 --> 34:33.600] That's what I said.
[34:33.600 --> 34:34.600] I had thought, too.
[34:34.600 --> 34:42.280] So I was just checking to see about the address and the USPS website and put the address in
[34:42.280 --> 34:46.600] to see about it providing me the zip code, and it didn't recognize the address.
[34:46.600 --> 34:47.600] Okay.
[34:47.600 --> 34:52.320] When was the last time you received a correspondence from this entity?
[34:52.320 --> 34:58.280] It was probably about January 2012.
[34:58.280 --> 34:59.280] Huh.
[34:59.280 --> 35:04.280] And you've not received anything from them since?
[35:04.280 --> 35:05.280] No.
[35:05.280 --> 35:10.240] I'm saying they were getting out of the business and they were transferring it to someone else.
[35:10.240 --> 35:11.240] Okay.
[35:11.240 --> 35:12.240] Okay.
[35:12.240 --> 35:14.240] Who did they transfer it to?
[35:14.240 --> 35:21.160] Well, I want to talk with you before about called Nation Star in Texas.
[35:21.160 --> 35:23.240] Nation Star in Texas.
[35:23.240 --> 35:24.240] Yes.
[35:24.240 --> 35:25.240] Okay.
[35:25.240 --> 35:30.440] Have you tried sending your request to Nation Star?
[35:30.440 --> 35:40.320] Well, since my request was to verify the power of attorney of the person who signed the assignment.
[35:40.320 --> 35:41.320] Right.
[35:41.320 --> 35:45.520] So it doesn't seem like they should be able to do that.
[35:45.520 --> 35:46.520] Could they?
[35:46.520 --> 35:47.520] Well, sure.
[35:47.520 --> 35:52.860] They could do the assignment, they would.
[35:52.860 --> 35:58.360] The assignment should have a proper address on it.
[35:58.360 --> 36:01.160] You can't go by an address from five years ago.
[36:01.160 --> 36:06.600] If they contacted you in 2012, what address did they mail from?
[36:06.600 --> 36:10.600] You would send back to the address that they contacted you.
[36:10.600 --> 36:11.680] That's part of your due diligence.
[36:11.680 --> 36:12.680] Right.
[36:12.680 --> 36:18.040] If they came back from that address, that indicates that they're no longer at that address.
[36:18.040 --> 36:19.040] Correct.
[36:19.040 --> 36:20.040] So you can't find them.
[36:20.040 --> 36:22.080] So you go to the next guy in line.
[36:22.080 --> 36:23.080] Correct.
[36:23.080 --> 36:25.200] Hey, where did they go?
[36:25.200 --> 36:26.800] How can I get in touch with them?
[36:26.800 --> 36:27.800] Secretary of State.
[36:27.800 --> 36:29.760] Oh, they're out of business.
[36:29.760 --> 36:31.960] Ah, okay.
[36:31.960 --> 36:36.160] So then you picked up the tab on this.
[36:36.160 --> 36:39.240] Yes.
[36:39.240 --> 36:42.880] Do you smell what I'm stepping in?
[36:42.880 --> 36:43.880] Okay.
[36:43.880 --> 36:44.880] Hello?
[36:44.880 --> 36:45.880] Okay.
[36:45.880 --> 36:54.560] So if, okay, you got party A, party B. Party A purports to have transferred to party B.
[36:54.560 --> 37:01.360] When party B received the transfer, party B became liable for whatever party A did.
[37:01.360 --> 37:08.960] It's called vicarious liability.
[37:08.960 --> 37:13.800] Vicarious liability is liability put on a party that did not commit the original offense.
[37:13.800 --> 37:15.240] Yes.
[37:15.240 --> 37:23.120] The FTC Holder Rule 16 USC 433, I believe.
[37:23.120 --> 37:27.640] So if party A is out of business, party B picked up the tab on this.
[37:27.640 --> 37:34.040] Party B assumed all the liability of party A. The liability of party A does not go away.
[37:34.040 --> 37:35.920] That also gets transferred.
[37:35.920 --> 37:42.480] If something gets transferred, you can't just say, oh, I don't want all the liability.
[37:42.480 --> 37:44.480] I just want all the benefit.
[37:44.480 --> 37:46.480] You can't do that.
[37:46.480 --> 37:48.600] That's inequitable.
[37:48.600 --> 37:52.720] This goes to holder in due course.
[37:52.720 --> 38:02.040] If I give you a check and you take that check to the bank and it bounces, the district attorney
[38:02.040 --> 38:06.200] is not going to come after you because you're a holder in due course.
[38:06.200 --> 38:11.520] You have no liability for any fraud that may have been committed in the creation of that
[38:11.520 --> 38:13.240] site draft.
[38:13.240 --> 38:20.520] However, what the FTC Holder Rule said, that we have these mortgage companies going into
[38:20.520 --> 38:27.520] business creating predatory loans, selling the loans to a third party, then going out
[38:27.520 --> 38:32.200] of business leaving the borrower with no remedy.
[38:32.200 --> 38:43.240] Therefore, in the matter of a consumer transaction, any subsequent holder is subject to any claim
[38:43.240 --> 38:47.240] the borrower would have against the lender.
[38:47.240 --> 38:53.320] So that makes them a holder, not a holder in due course.
[38:53.320 --> 38:56.320] That makes sense, Danny?
[38:56.320 --> 39:02.000] So, whoever would pick this up would pick up any claim.
[39:02.000 --> 39:08.000] But if the company went out of business, now it's probably too late to be able to establish
[39:08.000 --> 39:13.520] whether this person had power of attorney.
[39:13.520 --> 39:19.040] Was the company you sent the letter to the lender or a title company?
[39:19.040 --> 39:23.480] It's the original lender.
[39:23.480 --> 39:31.160] Okay, because oftentimes it is a title company that actually does the filing.
[39:31.160 --> 39:36.720] Did you send or are there any assignments or appointments in the record?
[39:36.720 --> 39:37.720] Yes.
[39:37.720 --> 39:40.440] Did you send to those as well?
[39:40.440 --> 39:42.400] No, I haven't done that.
[39:42.400 --> 39:43.400] Okay.
[39:43.400 --> 39:45.280] Those are the really important ones.
[39:45.280 --> 39:52.520] The deed of trust, that's the document you create, essentially you're the one that affirms
[39:52.520 --> 39:53.520] it.
[39:53.520 --> 40:00.520] So, you're the one that's essentially responsible for the validity of that document.
[40:00.520 --> 40:03.880] Don't make any difference who actually files it in the record.
[40:03.880 --> 40:11.200] Any assignment or appointment, like appointment of substitute trustee, that will be affirmed
[40:11.200 --> 40:21.040] by some person as under power of attorney or as attorney in fact.
[40:21.040 --> 40:25.440] Attorney in fact, that means power of attorney, that doesn't mean a lawyer.
[40:25.440 --> 40:31.800] So they're signing as attorney in fact to whatever this entity is and that's the company
[40:31.800 --> 40:38.200] you want them to prove up that this person actually had power of attorney for your company
[40:38.200 --> 40:41.600] and those are the ones we tend not to get responses for.
[40:41.600 --> 40:48.440] We have got a couple and if I remember right, both of those said we have no record of this
[40:48.440 --> 40:57.040] person and that wasn't surprising because it's like 10 years later, but we've got that.
[40:57.040 --> 41:00.760] We get to go to the court and say, we asked for power of attorney and they said they didn't
[41:00.760 --> 41:01.760] know this person.
[41:01.760 --> 41:02.760] That's prime FHA evidence.
[41:02.760 --> 41:05.200] It's a documents fraudulent.
[41:05.200 --> 41:13.320] So I would suggest any assignment, substitute trustee or any appointment, you get a letter
[41:13.320 --> 41:20.400] to those and any notary that notarized any of those documents.
[41:20.400 --> 41:26.640] There's not just robo signers, there's robo notaries and notaries are under a more of
[41:26.640 --> 41:32.800] a statutory duties to prove up what they did.
[41:32.800 --> 41:38.820] Now some states, Texas has a requirement that they keep a sequential ledger.
[41:38.820 --> 41:41.680] Not all states have that requirement.
[41:41.680 --> 41:51.160] So if you don't have that requirement in Tennessee, then you request evidence of the authentication
[41:51.160 --> 41:56.640] and one form of evidence is their IRS filing.
[41:56.640 --> 42:02.240] They should keep records of the money they made doing these notarizations because they
[42:02.240 --> 42:03.760] don't do it for free.
[42:03.760 --> 42:06.000] There should be financial records.
[42:06.000 --> 42:09.480] You ask for those financial records, they refuse.
[42:09.480 --> 42:13.200] Then you go to court and say, you asked for these records to prove that this was actually
[42:13.200 --> 42:14.200] done.
[42:14.200 --> 42:15.200] You didn't get them.
[42:15.200 --> 42:20.920] Now you ask for them in discovery and they probably didn't keep records of each authentication.
[42:20.920 --> 42:28.040] Therefore, the authentication cannot be authenticated.
[42:28.040 --> 42:32.360] You probably won't win that argument in the end, but in the end, you're not likely to
[42:32.360 --> 42:33.360] win anyway.
[42:33.360 --> 42:38.280] The only thing you're likely to be able to do is bring them to the table so that they
[42:38.280 --> 42:44.840] stop bleeding litigation costs.
[42:44.840 --> 42:47.720] Just one more hoop they'd have to jump, sir.
[42:47.720 --> 42:54.760] What about, well, we're already in court, so I wasn't in court with the original lenders,
[42:54.760 --> 43:01.120] so I thought it'd be all right to do this to them, but I mean-
[43:01.120 --> 43:05.520] What venue are you in, Danny?
[43:05.520 --> 43:07.360] You mean which court?
[43:07.360 --> 43:08.360] Yeah.
[43:08.360 --> 43:12.080] That's Chancery Court in Tennessee.
[43:12.080 --> 43:13.080] Okay.
[43:13.080 --> 43:14.080] Hillbilly Court.
[43:14.080 --> 43:19.800] They're about 60 miles from where I'm from in Tennessee.
[43:19.800 --> 43:25.880] Flatwaters Court over here on this part of the state.
[43:25.880 --> 43:26.880] Okay.
[43:26.880 --> 43:27.880] Hang on.
[43:27.880 --> 43:28.880] We're about to go to break.
[43:28.880 --> 43:34.800] There was a question I had and then I lost it, which it isn't.
[43:34.800 --> 43:39.640] It's getting to be a more serious problem as I get younger.
[43:39.640 --> 43:40.640] I don't get older anymore.
[43:40.640 --> 43:43.640] I give up on birthdays for lack of interest.
[43:43.640 --> 43:46.640] How's the road not lined?
[43:46.640 --> 43:47.640] Okay.
[43:47.640 --> 43:51.880] Joe Esquivel, Steve Skidmore, Randy Kelton, Blue's Law Radio.
[43:51.880 --> 44:02.560] Our call in number, 512-646-1984, we've got an hour and 15 minutes, give us a call.
[44:02.560 --> 44:03.560] Hello.
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[45:59.960 --> 46:11.520] Whoa, whoa, yeah.
[46:11.520 --> 46:29.600] Always I must be careful what I'm wishing for.
[46:29.600 --> 46:36.600] When I'm hungry, I like to know just what I'm fishing for.
[46:36.600 --> 46:41.600] I ain't asking for much, I ain't trying to be no glutton.
[46:41.600 --> 46:46.600] I'm just here making my living, pushing buttons.
[46:46.600 --> 46:53.600] I give my message out to anyone in the shot and distance.
[46:53.600 --> 46:55.600] Welcome back to Rule of Law, folks.
[46:55.600 --> 46:59.600] Before the break, we were talking to Danny in Tennessee.
[46:59.600 --> 47:10.600] And Danny, the power of attorney, I take it it was not filed in public record.
[47:10.600 --> 47:17.600] I take it that Tennessee has a requirement to file that power of attorney in public record.
[47:17.600 --> 47:22.600] And if they failed in their statutory duty, if there be a statutory duty,
[47:22.600 --> 47:27.600] then there is remedy in what you seek.
[47:27.600 --> 47:30.600] The question therein lies, is there a state statute
[47:30.600 --> 47:37.600] that places the filing of that power of attorney in the record?
[47:37.600 --> 47:39.600] Danny?
[47:39.600 --> 47:41.600] Well, I don't know that.
[47:41.600 --> 47:42.600] Okay.
[47:42.600 --> 47:47.600] That's the first thing you're going to have to do is define their obligation,
[47:47.600 --> 47:53.600] find out if they have an obligation to submit that power of attorney to public record.
[47:53.600 --> 47:59.600] Because if there is no statutory requirement, you're peeing up a rope, brother.
[47:59.600 --> 48:07.600] Well, maybe UCC pretty well requires that anyone who affirms a document
[48:07.600 --> 48:13.600] must have authority to make the affirmation, either as the principal
[48:13.600 --> 48:17.600] or as a bona fide agent of the principal.
[48:17.600 --> 48:23.600] An agent of the principal can only be established by power of attorney.
[48:23.600 --> 48:29.600] So you might have an argument anyway, but it's just going to be one of those annoyance arguments.
[48:29.600 --> 48:35.600] If they rule in your favor, they rule against everybody.
[48:35.600 --> 48:39.600] And finding a judge who wants to do that is tough.
[48:39.600 --> 48:43.600] But in the end, everything's about bringing them to the table.
[48:43.600 --> 48:49.600] If you're in court with them, have you requested mediation?
[48:49.600 --> 48:51.600] No.
[48:51.600 --> 48:53.600] You might request mediation.
[48:53.600 --> 48:57.600] That gives the bank the opportunity to come to the table
[48:57.600 --> 49:01.600] and make a deal with you without losing face.
[49:01.600 --> 49:04.600] If you get the court to order them to come to the table, they might want to.
[49:04.600 --> 49:09.600] They might want to make this go away, but they don't want to lose face.
[49:09.600 --> 49:11.600] It's poker. It's poker.
[49:11.600 --> 49:16.600] They're going to say, you know, we're not coming to the table because we got a weekend.
[49:16.600 --> 49:19.600] We're coming to the table because he made us.
[49:19.600 --> 49:22.600] So try for mediation.
[49:22.600 --> 49:25.600] And then you put in all these annoying arguments.
[49:25.600 --> 49:27.600] And they're going to say, well, now we win this.
[49:27.600 --> 49:29.600] And I say, you say, who cares?
[49:29.600 --> 49:30.600] This don't cost me much.
[49:30.600 --> 49:32.600] How much is going to cost you, bubba?
[49:32.600 --> 49:35.600] How many bar grievances are you going to get in the meantime?
[49:35.600 --> 49:41.600] Let's make a deal and make this thing go away.
[49:41.600 --> 49:43.600] Does that sound like fun?
[49:43.600 --> 49:45.600] Yeah, should be good.
[49:45.600 --> 49:46.600] You might give it a try.
[49:46.600 --> 49:49.600] At least you give you a chance to talk to them.
[49:49.600 --> 49:51.600] And, you know, they'll try to read you.
[49:51.600 --> 49:57.600] And if they read you as just one of these proceeds from hell
[49:57.600 --> 50:02.600] who has no other purpose than to give them as much grief as he possibly can,
[50:02.600 --> 50:06.600] they may just want to make you go away.
[50:06.600 --> 50:13.600] Write you a check, make a deal, something to get rid of you.
[50:13.600 --> 50:17.600] And that way everybody kind of wins.
[50:17.600 --> 50:21.600] Otherwise you'll fight this for the next five years and losing the end.
[50:21.600 --> 50:24.600] Yeah, there's got to be a, you got to have a stronger argument.
[50:24.600 --> 50:30.600] I've seen a lot of people raise the issue of there being no power of attorney,
[50:30.600 --> 50:38.600] but I haven't seen anybody get any traction with it anywhere.
[50:38.600 --> 50:40.600] It's kind of one of those throwaway arguments,
[50:40.600 --> 50:44.600] but it does give you more to go in with, and that's why I do it.
[50:44.600 --> 50:47.600] It gives claims to come into court with.
[50:47.600 --> 50:51.600] When they file a Rule 12 motion to dismiss fail state claim, well, this is a claim.
[50:51.600 --> 50:53.600] This is a valid claim.
[50:53.600 --> 50:58.600] And this is a claim that you've developed facts to back up the claim.
[50:58.600 --> 51:01.600] Documents filed on this date.
[51:01.600 --> 51:05.600] It was affirmed by this party on this date.
[51:05.600 --> 51:08.600] Plaintiff filed a request for power of attorney.
[51:08.600 --> 51:11.600] No power of attorney was forthcoming.
[51:11.600 --> 51:14.600] Therefore we have reason to believe in doing it.
[51:14.600 --> 51:15.600] You establish the facts.
[51:15.600 --> 51:18.600] You've got the claim.
[51:18.600 --> 51:19.600] They have to adjudicate.
[51:19.600 --> 51:20.600] They have to answer.
[51:20.600 --> 51:23.600] They're just going to cost a lot of money to answer.
[51:23.600 --> 51:25.600] Okay.
[51:25.600 --> 51:28.600] Does that pretty well take care of you, David, Danny?
[51:28.600 --> 51:30.600] Yeah, I believe so.
[51:30.600 --> 51:31.600] Okay.
[51:31.600 --> 51:32.600] Thank you.
[51:32.600 --> 51:33.600] Yeah.
[51:33.600 --> 51:34.600] Thank you for calling in.
[51:34.600 --> 51:37.600] You want to pick this up, Ken, Steve?
[51:37.600 --> 51:38.600] Sure.
[51:38.600 --> 51:40.600] Pick up, Ken.
[51:40.600 --> 51:43.600] Pick up, Ken.
[51:43.600 --> 51:47.600] Let's go to Kenny in Michigan.
[51:47.600 --> 51:48.600] Hello, Kenny.
[51:48.600 --> 51:49.600] How are you tonight?
[51:49.600 --> 51:51.600] Oh, good, good.
[51:51.600 --> 51:53.600] What do you got for us?
[51:53.600 --> 52:04.600] Well, I am trying to figure out how to file a notice of appeal in a district court.
[52:04.600 --> 52:07.600] From the district court?
[52:07.600 --> 52:09.600] Right.
[52:09.600 --> 52:10.600] Okay.
[52:10.600 --> 52:15.600] Let me restate my question.
[52:15.600 --> 52:21.600] What, okay, was your suit in a district court and you're trying to appeal from the district
[52:21.600 --> 52:27.600] to the appellate or are you trying to get your appeal in the district?
[52:27.600 --> 52:28.600] Wait a minute.
[52:28.600 --> 52:29.600] Wait a minute.
[52:29.600 --> 52:30.600] He's in Michigan.
[52:30.600 --> 52:31.600] Oh.
[52:31.600 --> 52:32.600] Yeah.
[52:32.600 --> 52:33.600] Silly me.
[52:33.600 --> 52:35.600] We don't know what these court.
[52:35.600 --> 52:37.600] Didn't you call last night, Kenny?
[52:37.600 --> 52:38.600] Yeah.
[52:38.600 --> 52:41.600] Actually, my friend Terry called you last night.
[52:41.600 --> 52:42.600] Terry.
[52:42.600 --> 52:43.600] Oh, okay.
[52:43.600 --> 52:44.600] You're the guy.
[52:44.600 --> 52:45.600] Okay.
[52:45.600 --> 52:48.600] We were really telling really great jokes about you last night.
[52:48.600 --> 52:49.600] And we laughed.
[52:49.600 --> 52:50.600] No, we didn't.
[52:50.600 --> 52:51.600] Really?
[52:51.600 --> 52:52.600] Okay.
[52:52.600 --> 52:53.600] What?
[52:53.600 --> 52:54.600] Okay.
[52:54.600 --> 52:57.600] This was a traffic case.
[52:57.600 --> 52:58.600] Yes.
[52:58.600 --> 52:59.600] Right.
[52:59.600 --> 53:02.600] So it was the district court that heard the traffic case.
[53:02.600 --> 53:04.600] Yes, sir.
[53:04.600 --> 53:05.600] Okay.
[53:05.600 --> 53:08.600] Now, in Texas, we have municipal courts.
[53:08.600 --> 53:13.600] We have justice of the peace courts and those are inferior courts.
[53:13.600 --> 53:15.600] They don't have to be lawyers.
[53:15.600 --> 53:17.600] And they're not courts of record.
[53:17.600 --> 53:18.600] Right.
[53:18.600 --> 53:24.600] And then we have county courts, district courts, and from there you go to the court of appeals.
[53:24.600 --> 53:31.600] So that's why I stopped because what level is the district court in?
[53:31.600 --> 53:40.600] Is this a court that you appealed to from a traffic court or was this the original court of jurisdiction?
[53:40.600 --> 53:46.600] This was the original court that I'm trying to appeal to a circuit court.
[53:46.600 --> 53:47.600] Okay.
[53:47.600 --> 53:52.600] So this is going to be the lowest court level court in Michigan?
[53:52.600 --> 53:54.600] I believe so, yes.
[53:54.600 --> 53:55.600] Okay.
[53:55.600 --> 54:01.600] So is this a trial de novo?
[54:01.600 --> 54:03.600] What is that?
[54:03.600 --> 54:10.600] That means you don't have to appeal on writ of error.
[54:10.600 --> 54:15.600] Let me butt in here.
[54:15.600 --> 54:20.600] Your trial court was not a court of record.
[54:20.600 --> 54:27.600] So when you get a new trial, that's kind of like a miniature appeal.
[54:27.600 --> 54:33.600] What you're doing is you're getting a new trial in a court of record.
[54:33.600 --> 54:38.600] That's where you leave your footprint to go to the appellate court.
[54:38.600 --> 54:48.600] So you go from a court of no record to a court of record that's your next higher up court.
[54:48.600 --> 54:53.600] And that's where you make your record that can be appealed.
[54:53.600 --> 54:56.600] You can't appeal anything if it's not on the record.
[54:56.600 --> 55:03.600] So you're coming out of a court of no record into a court of record on a new trial, trial de novo.
[55:03.600 --> 55:09.600] Trial de novo is a Latin term for new trial.
[55:09.600 --> 55:11.600] So it's a complete redo.
[55:11.600 --> 55:17.600] Here in the state of Texas in trial de novo, you're allowed to bring in new evidence
[55:17.600 --> 55:23.600] because there's no evidence on the record in a court of no record.
[55:23.600 --> 55:33.600] Once you make your footprint there in that first court of record, now you have something appealable.
[55:33.600 --> 55:44.600] But to address your specific question, your notice of appeal, all that has to be is just one paragraph.
[55:44.600 --> 55:50.600] You're just noticing the court that you're going to appeal.
[55:50.600 --> 55:55.600] Once you have noticed the court that you have, you've got time limits on all this.
[55:55.600 --> 55:59.600] You've got a certain amount of time that you've got to file your notice of appeal.
[55:59.600 --> 56:04.600] Here in the state of Texas, you've got five days to file your notice of appeal.
[56:04.600 --> 56:12.600] Then after you've filed your notice of appeal, you've got 30 days to file your appellate brief.
[56:12.600 --> 56:15.600] But in a trial de novo, there is no brief.
[56:15.600 --> 56:23.600] So all you've got to do is just take up a motion document, so it's got the header and the footer on it,
[56:23.600 --> 56:29.600] and just delete everything in the middle and put in, I hereby give notice of my intent to appeal.
[56:29.600 --> 56:31.600] That's it. Give it to the court.
[56:31.600 --> 56:32.600] Yep.
[56:32.600 --> 56:35.600] Unless there's something peculiar in Michigan.
[56:35.600 --> 56:38.600] Make sure it's verified. You've got to have that thing notarized.
[56:38.600 --> 56:41.600] You've got to have it juratable.
[56:41.600 --> 56:44.600] Not on a notice of appeal. It has no facts in it.
[56:44.600 --> 56:46.600] Generally not.
[56:46.600 --> 56:48.600] Okay, okay.
[56:48.600 --> 56:54.600] It never hurts to have something notarized even if it don't need it.
[56:54.600 --> 56:59.600] But if it needs it and you didn't do it, that can be a problem.
[56:59.600 --> 57:01.600] Yeah, that's going to create a gym.
[57:01.600 --> 57:11.600] A good rule of thumb is always to get it notarized, but the actual rule is when a document makes a statement of fact,
[57:11.600 --> 57:15.600] then it must be notarized.
[57:15.600 --> 57:17.600] Does that make sense, Kenny?
[57:17.600 --> 57:20.600] Yes, it does.
[57:20.600 --> 57:27.600] The 74 district court that I was in, it was a court of record.
[57:27.600 --> 57:29.600] Oh.
[57:29.600 --> 57:33.600] I requested for my transcripts and all that stuff.
[57:33.600 --> 57:39.600] That's the first thing that I asked is if it was a court of record.
[57:39.600 --> 57:43.600] So I'm getting all that.
[57:43.600 --> 57:53.600] What happened was today I had tried to go in with a notice of appeal and hand it to the district court,
[57:53.600 --> 57:55.600] and they wouldn't take it.
[57:55.600 --> 58:00.600] They tried sending it over to the other court.
[58:00.600 --> 58:01.600] Okay.
[58:01.600 --> 58:05.600] Are you sure that you took that to the proper venue, to the proper court?
[58:05.600 --> 58:11.600] You take it to the clerk of the court wherein you were tried.
[58:11.600 --> 58:13.600] Not to the judge, but to the clerk.
[58:13.600 --> 58:14.600] I did that.
[58:14.600 --> 58:16.600] She wouldn't take it.
[58:16.600 --> 58:18.600] Send it to her.
[58:18.600 --> 58:20.600] Never go into the court, ever, if you can avoid it.
[58:20.600 --> 58:23.600] Send it to her certified mail, return receipt requested.
[58:23.600 --> 58:26.600] Send one to the other court just in case.
[58:26.600 --> 58:29.600] But you need to check the rules for Michigan.
[58:29.600 --> 58:33.600] They may be somewhat different than other states.
[58:33.600 --> 58:35.600] But hang on, we're about to go to break.
[58:35.600 --> 58:39.600] This is Randy Kelton, Steve Skigmore, Joe Esquivel, Rue La Radio.
[58:39.600 --> 58:43.600] I call it number 512-646-1984.
[58:43.600 --> 58:49.600] We'll be right back.
[58:49.600 --> 58:53.600] Would you like to make more definite progress in your walk with God?
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[59:33.600 --> 59:40.600] call Bibles for America toll-free at 888-551-0102.
[59:40.600 --> 59:44.600] That's 888-551-0102.
[59:44.600 --> 59:49.600] Or visit us online at bfa.org.
[59:49.600 --> 59:59.600] You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com.
[59:59.600 --> 01:00:06.600] This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty News and activist updates.
[01:00:06.600 --> 01:00:08.600] Online at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:00:08.600 --> 01:00:13.600] I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Friday, April 25, 2014.
[01:00:13.600 --> 01:00:15.600] Gold opened today, $1,302.
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[01:00:18.600 --> 01:00:21.600] While Bitcoin is trading at $451.
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[01:00:41.600 --> 01:00:43.600] Online, affordablesound.com.
[01:00:43.600 --> 01:00:46.600] Or call up 512-459-5253.
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[01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:05.600] In the news, sweeping changes regarding gun laws in two states this week.
[01:01:05.600 --> 01:01:09.600] In Georgia, Governor Nathan Deal has signed legislation into law
[01:01:09.600 --> 01:01:13.600] that will allow guns to be carried into bars, churches and government buildings.
[01:01:13.600 --> 01:01:18.600] The Los Angeles Times reports the Safe Carry Protection Act takes effect July 1.
[01:01:18.600 --> 01:01:22.600] In Kansas, meanwhile, Governor Sam Brownback has signed into law legislation
[01:01:22.600 --> 01:01:26.600] making it legal statewide to openly carry firearms.
[01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:29.600] At the same time, the Associated Press reports the legislation
[01:01:29.600 --> 01:01:32.600] strips local governments of their gun-regulating power.
[01:01:32.600 --> 01:01:35.600] The change takes effect July 1.
[01:01:35.600 --> 01:01:39.600] Vermont is poised to become the first state to enact labeling for foods
[01:01:39.600 --> 01:01:41.600] containing genetically modified organisms.
[01:01:41.600 --> 01:01:45.600] On Wednesday, the Vermont House voted 114 to 30 in favor of the bill,
[01:01:45.600 --> 01:01:48.600] while the state Senate approved the measure last week.
[01:01:48.600 --> 01:01:52.600] The law also sets up a special defense fund to fight off expected lawsuits
[01:01:52.600 --> 01:01:55.600] from food manufacturers and biotech companies like Monsanto.
[01:01:55.600 --> 01:02:00.600] The measures go into effect July 1 of 2016.
[01:02:00.600 --> 01:02:03.600] Students in California will have their yearly standardized testing
[01:02:03.600 --> 01:02:06.600] and reporting exam replaced by Common Core,
[01:02:06.600 --> 01:02:09.600] a national curriculum backed by Obama's Education Department.
[01:02:09.600 --> 01:02:13.600] Some educators are calling the new Common Core test confusing
[01:02:13.600 --> 01:02:15.600] and developmentally inappropriate.
[01:02:15.600 --> 01:02:17.600] Check out TheLibertyBeat.com for the full report
[01:02:17.600 --> 01:02:20.600] to learn which states have banned the curriculum.
[01:02:20.600 --> 01:02:24.600] Support for The Liberty Beat comes from Dorothy Erminger at Cap Star Lending.
[01:02:24.600 --> 01:02:27.600] Dorothy can walk you through the ins and outs of buying a home.
[01:02:27.600 --> 01:02:32.600] Give her a call 512-343-6494 or apply online.
[01:02:32.600 --> 01:02:36.600] Call Dorothy.com and email us at 216624.
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[01:02:50.600 --> 01:02:55.600] This is The Liberty Beat for Friday, April 25, 2014.
[01:02:55.600 --> 01:02:59.600] Check out the website at TheLibertyBeat.com.
[01:02:59.600 --> 01:03:09.600] The Liberty Beat for Friday, April 25, 2014.
[01:03:29.600 --> 01:03:41.600] Welcome back to Rule of Law, folks.
[01:03:41.600 --> 01:03:45.600] Joseph Esquivel has, well, he's leaving the building.
[01:03:45.600 --> 01:03:47.600] He's got a lot of stuff to do tomorrow,
[01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:50.600] so we're going to bid Joe a good evening.
[01:03:50.600 --> 01:03:54.600] And thank you, Joe, for being on the air another week.
[01:03:54.600 --> 01:03:58.600] But we're going to go back to Danny in Michigan.
[01:03:58.600 --> 01:04:00.600] Danny, you're...
[01:04:00.600 --> 01:04:02.600] No, no, Kenny.
[01:04:02.600 --> 01:04:03.600] Oh, I'm sorry, Kenny.
[01:04:03.600 --> 01:04:05.600] Yeah, Danny was the last guy.
[01:04:05.600 --> 01:04:07.600] I'm sorry, Kenny.
[01:04:07.600 --> 01:04:09.600] Danny was the hillbilly.
[01:04:09.600 --> 01:04:10.600] He was, yes.
[01:04:10.600 --> 01:04:12.600] Actually, he's a redneck hillbilly.
[01:04:12.600 --> 01:04:14.600] He's a hillbilly from Houston.
[01:04:14.600 --> 01:04:16.600] Oh, oh, okay.
[01:04:16.600 --> 01:04:19.600] Well, that's acceptable.
[01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:23.600] But your appeal, okay.
[01:04:23.600 --> 01:04:26.600] So you kind of threw me for a loop there when you said
[01:04:26.600 --> 01:04:31.600] the court of original jurisdiction was a court of record.
[01:04:31.600 --> 01:04:34.600] So since you do have something on the record,
[01:04:34.600 --> 01:04:37.600] now you have something to appeal.
[01:04:37.600 --> 01:04:38.600] Right.
[01:04:38.600 --> 01:04:39.600] Okay.
[01:04:39.600 --> 01:04:41.600] Which brings up the question.
[01:04:41.600 --> 01:04:46.600] That's what I was setting it all up for, was for the appeal.
[01:04:46.600 --> 01:04:47.600] Gotcha.
[01:04:47.600 --> 01:04:53.600] But the problem was is that I had printed up my own notice of appeal,
[01:04:53.600 --> 01:04:56.600] and I tried taking it in to 74 District Court,
[01:04:56.600 --> 01:05:01.600] because to my knowledge, you're supposed to let them know,
[01:05:01.600 --> 01:05:04.600] inform them that you will be appealing the case.
[01:05:04.600 --> 01:05:05.600] Right.
[01:05:05.600 --> 01:05:10.600] Now, was this District Court, was this the original court?
[01:05:10.600 --> 01:05:11.600] Yes.
[01:05:11.600 --> 01:05:13.600] Okay.
[01:05:13.600 --> 01:05:17.600] Then you took it to the right court.
[01:05:17.600 --> 01:05:22.600] Why did the court, did they state a reason for not accepting it?
[01:05:22.600 --> 01:05:23.600] She wouldn't.
[01:05:23.600 --> 01:05:25.600] She said that they couldn't accept it.
[01:05:25.600 --> 01:05:28.600] You have to go file it with the Circuit Court.
[01:05:28.600 --> 01:05:30.600] And I said, all right.
[01:05:30.600 --> 01:05:34.600] So, you know, I went over to the Circuit Court, and I tried filing it,
[01:05:34.600 --> 01:05:41.600] and she said that I couldn't file it because it wasn't legal or something.
[01:05:41.600 --> 01:05:43.600] I don't know what her reason was.
[01:05:43.600 --> 01:05:44.600] She wouldn't tell me.
[01:05:44.600 --> 01:05:47.600] She kept on going with the line of I'm not a licensed attorney,
[01:05:47.600 --> 01:05:49.600] so I can't tell you any of this stuff.
[01:05:49.600 --> 01:05:54.600] Well, then you demand to see every case that has been appealed.
[01:05:54.600 --> 01:05:57.600] Oh, go to the court that it's been filed in.
[01:05:57.600 --> 01:06:01.600] You go to that, the court that it's going to,
[01:06:01.600 --> 01:06:12.600] and ask to see every case that's been appealed to this court in the last year.
[01:06:12.600 --> 01:06:14.600] See, you guys want to play hardball?
[01:06:14.600 --> 01:06:15.600] Show me all of them.
[01:06:15.600 --> 01:06:19.600] I'll find a notice of appeal in there.
[01:06:19.600 --> 01:06:23.600] Or you might look online to do a search.
[01:06:23.600 --> 01:06:24.600] You might look in the rules.
[01:06:24.600 --> 01:06:29.600] See if they have any special rules for that.
[01:06:29.600 --> 01:06:34.600] But I suggest you always mail everything.
[01:06:34.600 --> 01:06:35.600] If it's not in proper form,
[01:06:35.600 --> 01:06:39.600] that's not going to be sufficient to deny the notice of appeal.
[01:06:39.600 --> 01:06:47.600] I've never seen one that was more than the standard motion form.
[01:06:47.600 --> 01:06:51.600] Did you build yours on a standard motion form?
[01:06:51.600 --> 01:06:54.600] Mine was very basic at the very top,
[01:06:54.600 --> 01:06:58.600] just notice of appeal at the bottom.
[01:06:58.600 --> 01:07:03.600] At the top, did it have the court that it was going to,
[01:07:03.600 --> 01:07:07.600] and the plaintiff and defendant?
[01:07:07.600 --> 01:07:10.600] Yes.
[01:07:10.600 --> 01:07:14.600] You need to send that certified mail.
[01:07:14.600 --> 01:07:19.600] Something I always do when I'm used to drafting these documents now,
[01:07:19.600 --> 01:07:21.600] but when I started drafting documents,
[01:07:21.600 --> 01:07:24.600] I wasn't real familiar with how to draft the documents,
[01:07:24.600 --> 01:07:27.600] form and format and all that substance.
[01:07:27.600 --> 01:07:37.600] So what I did was I went online and looked at other documents
[01:07:37.600 --> 01:07:43.600] that had been filed by attorneys, and I just simply copied that.
[01:07:43.600 --> 01:07:46.600] I replaced all the pertinent information, of course,
[01:07:46.600 --> 01:07:49.600] but simply for form and format,
[01:07:49.600 --> 01:07:52.600] I used something that attorneys would use,
[01:07:52.600 --> 01:07:54.600] something that had already been filed.
[01:07:54.600 --> 01:07:58.600] The reason I say this is that the circuit court was saying
[01:07:58.600 --> 01:08:03.600] that there was something wrong with your notice of appeal.
[01:08:03.600 --> 01:08:09.600] So this tells me that you might want to go find a notice of appeal
[01:08:09.600 --> 01:08:13.600] that was filed in that court and adjudicated.
[01:08:13.600 --> 01:08:16.600] That way you'll get the proper format.
[01:08:16.600 --> 01:08:21.600] Just copy it like you're cheating on a test.
[01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:24.600] Plagiarism is allowed in law.
[01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:26.600] As a matter of fact, it's required.
[01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:30.600] And I am an expert and accomplished plagiarist.
[01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:32.600] You are.
[01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:39.600] Okay, go to courts.mi.gov.
[01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:44.600] And I just did a search, and the third hit got me
[01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:51.600] to Michigan Court's index of SCOA approved forms for use in appeals.
[01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:54.600] Perfect.
[01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:58.600] And I'm looking for a notice of filing a transcript,
[01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:00.600] notice of ended, notice of records,
[01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:08.600] notice of right to appeal, form CC265.
[01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:12.600] That will show you what the form looks like.
[01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:16.600] And it has State of Michigan Judicial Circuit Court,
[01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:21.600] notice of right to appeal and request for appointment of attorney.
[01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:22.600] Oh, good.
[01:09:22.600 --> 01:09:26.600] Get them to do that too.
[01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:29.600] So you'll find a basic form.
[01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:35.600] Just fill it out, sign it, send it certified mail.
[01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:39.600] That way if they refuse to accept it, they have to do it in writing.
[01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:43.600] And you'll have evidence of the fact that you gave the notice.
[01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:48.600] The fact that they consider it insufficient shouldn't,
[01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:51.600] you should be within the time limit.
[01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:53.600] Okay.
[01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:55.600] That should be easy enough.
[01:09:55.600 --> 01:09:59.600] You might look on that and do all of your forms.
[01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:00.600] This one was for appeals court.
[01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:06.600] See if you can find standard forms for the other courts.
[01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:13.600] You never want to craft a document from scratch if you can avoid it.
[01:10:13.600 --> 01:10:19.600] And one reason it's a whole lot easier if you use a standard format.
[01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:23.600] But the other is, is you've got this judge up here.
[01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:26.600] And this judge is a busy guy.
[01:10:26.600 --> 01:10:30.600] He reads motion after motion after motion.
[01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:33.600] I was in court with a judge that hated me.
[01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:38.600] And when you're a pro se, they always give the youngest guy in the office
[01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:40.600] the pro se litigant.
[01:10:40.600 --> 01:10:44.600] The guy comes in and hands the judge some documents.
[01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:47.600] And he gave me some of their case law.
[01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:50.600] And this was back in the 90s.
[01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:57.600] So he put the book on the copier and copied both pages to one page.
[01:10:57.600 --> 01:11:00.600] And I picked it up, looked at it, and I looked up at the judge and I said,
[01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:05.600] Your Honor, does the court have a magnifying glass?
[01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:07.600] The judge gave me a strange look.
[01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:12.600] And then he picked up the discovery, I mean the case law, and looked at it.
[01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:14.600] He took it by the corner.
[01:11:14.600 --> 01:11:16.600] It was a stack about a half inch high.
[01:11:16.600 --> 01:11:21.600] Took it by the corner and just flung it out into the courtroom.
[01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:24.600] Pages were like confetti.
[01:11:24.600 --> 01:11:29.600] And just railed on this lawyer while he's running around picking up all these papers.
[01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:32.600] About are you trying to blind me?
[01:11:32.600 --> 01:11:34.600] You know how many documents I have to read every day?
[01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:40.600] And I looked up at the judge and the lawyer was down on his hands
[01:11:40.600 --> 01:11:41.600] and he was picking up the paper.
[01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:43.600] He kind of smiled and caught his head.
[01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:45.600] And I kind of nodded, yeah, I know.
[01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:48.600] He wasn't mad at the lawyer at all.
[01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:50.600] He was training him.
[01:11:50.600 --> 01:11:52.600] Teaching him a lesson.
[01:11:52.600 --> 01:11:53.600] Yeah.
[01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:55.600] I took a good lesson from that.
[01:11:55.600 --> 01:12:03.600] Do not give the judge a document that's different than what he sees every day.
[01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:10.600] All of these lawyers use standard forms, standard case law.
[01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.600] The only thing that's different is their particular issue.
[01:12:14.600 --> 01:12:19.600] A friend of mine needs a TRO.
[01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:21.600] He writes one, sends it to me.
[01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:25.600] This is Ken Magnuson, he's my civil go-to guy for civil strategy.
[01:12:25.600 --> 01:12:27.600] So he should know what he's doing.
[01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:30.600] He called me up, said, what do you think, piece of crap, Ken?
[01:12:30.600 --> 01:12:32.600] He said, think you can do better?
[01:12:32.600 --> 01:12:33.600] Darn right I can.
[01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:35.600] So I made him up one, sent it to him.
[01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:36.600] He went to court.
[01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:38.600] He won the TRO.
[01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:39.600] They come out.
[01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:42.600] The lawyer said, are you an attorney?
[01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:44.600] He said, well, no, but my brother's is.
[01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:45.600] Did you write this?
[01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:47.600] He said, well, I had some help.
[01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:52.600] And the lawyer said, that is really good.
[01:12:52.600 --> 01:12:55.600] And Ken told me that.
[01:12:55.600 --> 01:13:00.600] I didn't tell Ken that I pulled that right out of O'Connor's forms
[01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.600] and filled in the blanks.
[01:13:04.600 --> 01:13:10.600] But the reason the judge gave him the ruling is the judge looked at this document.
[01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:14.600] He saw everything exactly where he expected to see it.
[01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:18.600] He saw all the standard case law that he expected to see
[01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:23.600] and only had to pay attention to one little section.
[01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:29.600] If you give the judge a motion or pleading that you've written from scratch
[01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:34.600] and you've got 10 cases the judge has never seen before
[01:13:34.600 --> 01:13:41.600] and everything is out of place from what he expects, you know what he's going to do.
[01:13:41.600 --> 01:13:45.600] You think I'm really going to release 10 cases?
[01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:47.600] Denied.
[01:13:47.600 --> 01:13:55.600] Now that may not be right, but that's how it works in the real world you and I live in.
[01:13:55.600 --> 01:14:00.600] So find the litigation guides for Michigan.
[01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:05.600] You will be amazed at how much time that will save you.
[01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:08.600] And you will get very well crafted documents.
[01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:12.600] When you file a document, the only way the judge should know
[01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:18.600] that a lawyer did not craft the document is by the signature on the bottom.
[01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:25.600] Don't put any of this patriot mythology crapola terminology in there.
[01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:29.600] Man on the land, blah, blah, blah, had a guy do that.
[01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:33.600] And I ask him, Ray, what the heck is all this crap?
[01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:37.600] I had written the pleading and he put all this patriot stuff in there.
[01:14:37.600 --> 01:14:38.600] He said, well, it's all true.
[01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:42.600] I said, well, yeah, it's true, but you're fat, old and bald.
[01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:44.600] You didn't put that in there.
[01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:46.600] Well, that wasn't relevant.
[01:14:46.600 --> 01:14:47.600] Right.
[01:14:47.600 --> 01:14:49.600] Neither is all this garbage.
[01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:52.600] All you're doing is telling the judge that you're a chump
[01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:54.600] and he don't have to pay attention to you.
[01:14:54.600 --> 01:14:58.600] And I heard his son in the background, I told you, dad, I told you, dad.
[01:14:58.600 --> 01:15:00.600] I told you so, yeah.
[01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:07.600] But anyway, that's advice on how to construct these, make your life a whole lot easier.
[01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:11.600] But just do an Internet search, you'll find probably all of these forms.
[01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:15.600] Even if you find that appeals, the court form,
[01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:24.600] the basic structure is going to be the same for all motions in all of the courts.
[01:15:24.600 --> 01:15:30.600] Of course, states tend to have different formats slightly, but the whole state,
[01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:32.600] all of the formats would be essentially the same.
[01:15:32.600 --> 01:15:39.600] So this will tell you how to craft them so that they look the way the judge expects to see it.
[01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:45.600] And if you're going to do legal research, the first place to go is down to the clerk
[01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:52.600] and pull other cases and see what the lawyers have done and then copy their motions.
[01:15:52.600 --> 01:15:58.600] Most of my really good motions I stole from other lawyers out of the public record.
[01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:02.600] You'll find stuff in there you would have never thought of.
[01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:05.600] Does that make sense, Kenny?
[01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:09.600] Yes, yes it does, actually that's really helpful.
[01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:13.600] Okay, hang on, we're about to go to break.
[01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:16.600] There are a couple of other things I'd like to address on the other side.
[01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:24.600] I understand you have a group of people working together to kind of learn how to do this.
[01:16:24.600 --> 01:16:25.600] Yes.
[01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:31.600] Is that right? Good, good. I'm glad to hear that. We love that kind of stuff.
[01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:34.600] So let's pick this up on the other side.
[01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:36.600] This is too hard to do on your own.
[01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:41.600] Uh oh, Kenny's going to kill me, he was listening.
[01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:42.600] Yes.
[01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:45.600] Yeah, he just called in, he's going to shoot me out.
[01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:47.600] You noticed that, did you?
[01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:55.600] Hang on, a little radio, I call in number 512-646-1984, we'll be right back.
[01:16:55.600 --> 01:17:00.600] Now he knows where I got that motion.
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[01:19:24.600 --> 01:19:30.600] Okay, we are back.
[01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:35.600] Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Rouvla Radio, and we're talking to Kenny in Michigan.
[01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:40.600] And I'm going to have to bring up Ken Magnussen.
[01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:43.600] The real Ken is here.
[01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:46.600] He heard me telling a story on him.
[01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:48.600] Hello, Ken.
[01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:51.600] Yeah, I heard the story.
[01:19:51.600 --> 01:19:56.600] He's out there trying to save you money on your phone bill, and I sent you a Skype message.
[01:19:56.600 --> 01:19:57.600] You didn't answer.
[01:19:57.600 --> 01:19:59.600] I said, I wonder if they're actually on tonight.
[01:19:59.600 --> 01:20:02.600] I just happened to tune in.
[01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:04.600] Oops.
[01:20:04.600 --> 01:20:07.600] About the time he was talking about you, huh?
[01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:12.600] Yeah, my ears are tingling a little bit, so yeah.
[01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:19.600] I tell that story because it really gave me a revelation.
[01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:25.600] Because I'm thinking, why on earth would this be looking like that?
[01:20:25.600 --> 01:20:30.600] I just took that thing out of O'Connor's forms and just filled in all the blanks.
[01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:34.600] And then it occurred to me, this guy's a new lawyer.
[01:20:34.600 --> 01:20:41.600] And he comes to court, and Ken hands him a motion, and he looks at that motion and says,
[01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:44.600] wow, that looks just like ours.
[01:20:44.600 --> 01:20:47.600] How did he do that?
[01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:49.600] He has O'Connor's, too.
[01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:50.600] Yeah.
[01:20:50.600 --> 01:20:53.600] Well, I think the lawyer didn't realize what they were doing because, you know,
[01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:56.600] they don't teach them how to practice law in law school.
[01:20:56.600 --> 01:20:59.600] They just teach them how to argue legal elements.
[01:20:59.600 --> 01:21:03.600] Once they get out of law school, then they learn how to file motions,
[01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:07.600] how to put them on for hearing, and all these practice things.
[01:21:07.600 --> 01:21:12.600] So he's just gotten out, and he sees the motion looks just like his,
[01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:15.600] and he's wondering how in the heck Ken did that.
[01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:18.600] That was a real revelation.
[01:21:18.600 --> 01:21:23.600] And Kenny, if you can find a set of forms,
[01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:28.600] one of these litigation guides are going to have a set of standard forms.
[01:21:28.600 --> 01:21:31.600] If you can't, just go down.
[01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:33.600] You have a cause number.
[01:21:33.600 --> 01:21:41.600] Ask to see all of the cause numbers between 10 before yours and yours,
[01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:44.600] given this range.
[01:21:44.600 --> 01:21:46.600] And then just look at the documents that are filed in there.
[01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:49.600] Look at how they're styled.
[01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:57.600] And when you find, just get copies of samples of different kinds of pleadings.
[01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:00.600] And then when you craft a pleading,
[01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:03.600] they'll have all the standard case law in there already,
[01:22:03.600 --> 01:22:05.600] so you won't have to dig it out.
[01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:07.600] You know, when you look at four or five pleadings,
[01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:15.600] you'll see all the things that are the same like venue, jurisdiction.
[01:22:15.600 --> 01:22:21.600] Like in Texas, we have you put in for the type of discovery.
[01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:23.600] You know, there's things that are peculiar in each state.
[01:22:23.600 --> 01:22:25.600] You'll have all that in these motions already,
[01:22:25.600 --> 01:22:28.600] and you won't have to figure it out.
[01:22:28.600 --> 01:22:32.600] Ken, do you want to comment on something?
[01:22:32.600 --> 01:22:34.600] Yeah, just to reiterate some of this,
[01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:38.600] where I learned it all from was actually Lance Flores.
[01:22:38.600 --> 01:22:43.600] Lance Flores told me when I first was under his tutelage back in the early 1890s,
[01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:46.600] he said just get out of the courthouse, spend a day down there,
[01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:52.600] and ask the clerk to give you the biggest, thickest file.
[01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:54.600] That's going to have all the activity.
[01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:58.600] That's where two attorneys or more are dueling it out with swords
[01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:02.600] or, well, the pen, which is mightier than the sword.
[01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:06.600] And that's where you're going to find all of the details of how they argue,
[01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:09.600] and then you're going to see how the judge ruled.
[01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:12.600] You'll get a sense of how the process works.
[01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:14.600] Okay.
[01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:19.600] That is exactly what I did when I started doing legal research,
[01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:23.600] and I found absolutely wonderful stuff in there.
[01:23:23.600 --> 01:23:27.600] I found emotion in limine.
[01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:30.600] Kenny, do you know what emotion in limine is?
[01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:32.600] I do not.
[01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:36.600] See, I didn't either, and I said what in the heck is this?
[01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:37.600] And it was cool.
[01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:41.600] It's all the questions the other side can't ask.
[01:23:41.600 --> 01:23:45.600] Yeah, it's emotion to suppress evidence or arguments.
[01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:47.600] This one was so much fun.
[01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:48.600] The judge is going through it.
[01:23:48.600 --> 01:23:52.600] It's about 20 pages, and he is really annoyed,
[01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:57.600] and he gets to the part where I ask him to forbid any questions
[01:23:57.600 --> 01:24:02.600] concerning any hypnotic interviews.
[01:24:02.600 --> 01:24:06.600] The judge said, Mr. Kelton, were you hypnotized?
[01:24:06.600 --> 01:24:07.600] Well, I don't know, Judge.
[01:24:07.600 --> 01:24:08.600] Ask him.
[01:24:08.600 --> 01:24:13.600] Do you know how they can make you forget that kind of stuff?
[01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:19.600] He did not think it was a bit funny.
[01:24:19.600 --> 01:24:22.600] But it saved the day.
[01:24:22.600 --> 01:24:25.600] In the trial, that really saved the day,
[01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:29.600] because there was a number of really important issues in there
[01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:34.600] that motion in limine blocked the prosecutor from bringing up.
[01:24:34.600 --> 01:24:40.600] So the point is, I don't know what they do in Michigan.
[01:24:40.600 --> 01:24:45.600] 90% of the law is all the same, but everybody has their peculiarities.
[01:24:45.600 --> 01:24:50.600] This will give you everything, and you'll get...
[01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:54.600] I found one case that he must have been a really expensive lawyer
[01:24:54.600 --> 01:24:57.600] because he had some really, really good-looking pleadings,
[01:24:57.600 --> 01:25:01.600] and I just about copied out his whole case.
[01:25:01.600 --> 01:25:09.600] You do that, and that will give you a jump start on how to adjudicate these cases.
[01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:10.600] Okay.
[01:25:10.600 --> 01:25:14.600] Let me add one more thing, just so everybody...
[01:25:14.600 --> 01:25:15.600] Can you hear me?
[01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:17.600] Yeah, go ahead.
[01:25:17.600 --> 01:25:18.600] Okay.
[01:25:18.600 --> 01:25:21.600] One thing is, if anybody ever goes to federal court
[01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:24.600] and they want to change venue,
[01:25:24.600 --> 01:25:27.600] you need to look in the Tyler federal courts
[01:25:27.600 --> 01:25:33.600] for the filing of the Enron case, motion to change venue.
[01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:36.600] It's, like, 98 pages long,
[01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:41.600] and every kind of law regarding change of venue is in that case,
[01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:50.600] and it's out there on their website on the federal district court in Tyler.
[01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:51.600] That was fine.
[01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:52.600] Nice.
[01:25:52.600 --> 01:25:54.600] In the early 2000s, it's got everything.
[01:25:54.600 --> 01:25:58.600] Anybody that ever needs to change venue, there it is.
[01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:03.600] It's all been done for you by millionaire lawyers.
[01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:05.600] Yeah, here in the state of Texas,
[01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:13.600] the rules of civil procedure had changed and took effect in August 31, 2013,
[01:26:13.600 --> 01:26:17.600] and the motion to change venue on affidavit,
[01:26:17.600 --> 01:26:20.600] the rules have changed a little bit.
[01:26:20.600 --> 01:26:25.600] It used to say that upon affidavit,
[01:26:25.600 --> 01:26:29.600] a motion can be transferred to the nearest justice court,
[01:26:29.600 --> 01:26:32.600] and that is nearest as the crow flies.
[01:26:32.600 --> 01:26:36.600] Now, a change of venue can stay in that precinct,
[01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:39.600] but it's got to go to a different judge.
[01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:41.600] So that's just a little FYI there.
[01:26:41.600 --> 01:26:42.600] Okay, wait a minute.
[01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:47.600] Can stay in that precinct or must stay in the precinct?
[01:26:47.600 --> 01:26:56.600] Well, it will stay in that precinct unless there's a similar or another type of prejudice.
[01:26:56.600 --> 01:27:01.600] Okay, if you got two justices in the court,
[01:27:01.600 --> 01:27:05.600] if you got one justice, it's got to go to the nearest precinct.
[01:27:05.600 --> 01:27:07.600] If you have two justices,
[01:27:07.600 --> 01:27:12.600] it will go to the next justice unless there's a similar bias or prejudice,
[01:27:12.600 --> 01:27:15.600] in which case it will go to the nearest precinct.
[01:27:15.600 --> 01:27:19.600] Okay, well, what I was kind of getting to,
[01:27:19.600 --> 01:27:25.600] it doesn't say that a judge from another precinct would come to this precinct and hear it in this court?
[01:27:25.600 --> 01:27:27.600] No.
[01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:29.600] Oh, okay, so then it would go to,
[01:27:29.600 --> 01:27:31.600] they'd have to physically go to the other precinct to hear it.
[01:27:31.600 --> 01:27:32.600] Oh, okay.
[01:27:32.600 --> 01:27:33.600] Correct.
[01:27:33.600 --> 01:27:38.600] Let me ask a question, is this only dealing with justice courts?
[01:27:38.600 --> 01:27:39.600] Yes.
[01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:49.600] Okay, because there is a rule for change of venue outside of a county entirely based on political mechanisms
[01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:52.600] that make it impossible for you to get a fair trial.
[01:27:52.600 --> 01:27:54.600] Correct.
[01:27:54.600 --> 01:27:56.600] Okay.
[01:27:56.600 --> 01:27:59.600] Okay, don't go anywhere, Ken.
[01:27:59.600 --> 01:28:03.600] I want to, when I get done with Kenny,
[01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:09.600] I'd like to talk about some of the lobbying things that you're doing if you have time.
[01:28:09.600 --> 01:28:10.600] Sure.
[01:28:10.600 --> 01:28:12.600] Okay, hang on.
[01:28:12.600 --> 01:28:17.600] Kenny, have we, do you have any other questions for us?
[01:28:17.600 --> 01:28:22.600] No, that's it, and you guys really helped me out with this.
[01:28:22.600 --> 01:28:26.600] Unfortunately, I got to file this by Monday,
[01:28:26.600 --> 01:28:31.600] but I think that's my deadline, so I really won't have time to go in and go through all their paperwork,
[01:28:31.600 --> 01:28:38.600] but I'll definitely go to the website and see what's going on there.
[01:28:38.600 --> 01:28:43.600] Yeah, the form is on there, so you can just download it, fill it out, and send it.
[01:28:43.600 --> 01:28:53.600] It is considered filed when it's mailed, but these lower courts, they try to screw around with you.
[01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:57.600] I generally advise people to never go to the courts unless you have to.
[01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:05.600] I suggest you put one in the mail, certified mail return receipt, and then take one down there,
[01:29:05.600 --> 01:29:14.600] and you might take three copies, take it in an envelope, and with a cover letter,
[01:29:14.600 --> 01:29:28.600] ask the clerk to file this document and stamp one and return it to you in the included stamp self-addressed envelope.
[01:29:28.600 --> 01:29:36.600] You put an envelope in there so they can send it back to you, and then just hand it to them and leave.
[01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:44.600] That way, if they send them all back, if they want to, you don't care, but now you have proof that you actually filed it.
[01:29:44.600 --> 01:29:46.600] Okay.
[01:29:46.600 --> 01:29:49.600] Okay. Thank you, Kenny.
[01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:50.600] Thanks for having me.
[01:29:50.600 --> 01:29:52.600] And keep us up to date on how this goes.
[01:29:52.600 --> 01:29:54.600] Yeah, let us know how it works out.
[01:29:54.600 --> 01:29:59.600] Okay. Going to break, we'll be right back.
[01:29:59.600 --> 01:30:06.600] The Ten Commandments are a cornerstone of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. If you're an educated person,
[01:30:06.600 --> 01:30:08.600] you should probably know them, regardless of your religion.
[01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:14.600] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll be right back with a tip to help you remember one of the Ten Commandments.
[01:30:14.600 --> 01:30:19.600] Privacy is under attack. When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[01:30:19.600 --> 01:30:24.600] And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish, too.
[01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:29.600] So protect your rights, say no to surveillance, and keep your information to yourself.
[01:30:29.600 --> 01:30:32.600] Privacy, it's worth hanging onto.
[01:30:32.600 --> 01:30:39.600] This public service announcement is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing.
[01:30:39.600 --> 01:30:43.600] Start over with StartPage.
[01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:46.600] Looking for a memorable way to remember the Tenth Commandment?
[01:30:46.600 --> 01:30:49.600] Think of a $10 bill sticking out of someone's wallet.
[01:30:49.600 --> 01:30:53.600] If you were to see it and wish it was yours, then you would be coveting it.
[01:30:53.600 --> 01:30:58.600] Coveting is longing for something that belongs to someone else, and the Tenth Commandment forbids it.
[01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:03.600] The Commandment says, you shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife
[01:31:03.600 --> 01:31:08.600] or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
[01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:14.600] The Ten Commandments have probably inspired more commitment and controversy than any other moral code.
[01:31:14.600 --> 01:31:19.600] The next time someone has something you might want, like a $10 bill, don't drool over it.
[01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:22.600] Remember, coveting is forbidden by the Tenth Commandment.
[01:31:22.600 --> 01:31:27.600] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht. More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
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[01:33:00.600 --> 01:33:04.600] You are listening to the Logos Radio Network.
[01:33:04.600 --> 01:33:24.600] Logosradionetwork.com
[01:33:24.600 --> 01:33:25.600] Okay, we are back.
[01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:31.600] Randy Kelton, Stu Skidmore, Lou Blah Radio, and we're talking to Ken in Texas.
[01:33:31.600 --> 01:33:36.600] Ken, you've been doing some lobbying.
[01:33:36.600 --> 01:33:41.600] Can you kind of bring us up to speed on what you've been doing?
[01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:50.600] Well, the situation that has been going on in Texas for quite a while has been a failure of the State Commission on Judicial Conduct
[01:33:50.600 --> 01:33:58.600] and the Texas Bar Association that seems to think that it's discretionary to discipline people who commit crimes
[01:33:58.600 --> 01:34:02.600] while sitting on the bench or using their bar card.
[01:34:02.600 --> 01:34:08.600] And we were trying to get some, when I say we, the legal reform movement in general.
[01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:12.600] Randy was part of this when we testified before the state legislature last year
[01:34:12.600 --> 01:34:18.600] and the reauthorization of the State Commission of Judicial Conduct.
[01:34:18.600 --> 01:34:21.600] And there wasn't much done.
[01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:26.600] There was a very concise report put together.
[01:34:26.600 --> 01:34:33.600] It was replete with suggestions that I had made along with a number of suggestions from some other people.
[01:34:33.600 --> 01:34:38.600] And yet the state legislature did virtually nothing.
[01:34:38.600 --> 01:34:46.600] The only thing they did give us was a public hearing with the State Commission on Judicial Conduct
[01:34:46.600 --> 01:34:50.600] in the even-numbered years when the legislature's not meeting.
[01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:55.600] And they'll go under sunset review in six years rather than 12.
[01:34:55.600 --> 01:35:02.600] So other than that, they've done nothing to correct the fact that an average of 800 complaints come in a year.
[01:35:02.600 --> 01:35:07.600] No criminal charges are filed against any of these corrupt judges.
[01:35:07.600 --> 01:35:13.600] And very few of them are actually asked to leave the bench or removed.
[01:35:13.600 --> 01:35:18.600] In any given year, it's usually less than 12.
[01:35:18.600 --> 01:35:24.600] And that includes all of the benches, municipal courts, JP courts, district courts.
[01:35:24.600 --> 01:35:28.600] They never remove anybody from the appellate court or the Supreme Court.
[01:35:28.600 --> 01:35:31.600] It's never happened in this state that I'm aware of.
[01:35:31.600 --> 01:35:37.600] So in the off year, we now have a political year going on.
[01:35:37.600 --> 01:35:40.600] And there are a number of people running for office.
[01:35:40.600 --> 01:35:46.600] And they're very open to sitting down and having meetings about the potential legislation in the future.
[01:35:46.600 --> 01:35:55.600] So we're looking at some major issues that we'd like to change that were part of the report from the State Sunset Commission.
[01:35:55.600 --> 01:36:02.600] One of them, the big one, which is video and audio taping all of the judicial hearings in the state.
[01:36:02.600 --> 01:36:04.600] The state of Ohio does this.
[01:36:04.600 --> 01:36:06.600] The state of Kentucky does this.
[01:36:06.600 --> 01:36:10.600] There may be some other states that I'm unaware of that do it as well.
[01:36:10.600 --> 01:36:19.600] But what this does is provides a record of what transpired in the courtroom that's not subject to the caprice of the judge and the court reporter
[01:36:19.600 --> 01:36:25.600] and the court reporters under the thumb of the judge to actually record this.
[01:36:25.600 --> 01:36:32.600] We actually had a caller, Randy, if you remember, several months back where he called in complaining about the courts.
[01:36:32.600 --> 01:36:35.600] I believe it was in Kentucky.
[01:36:35.600 --> 01:36:41.600] And he filed complaints against this judge that he flat out just told him he wasn't going to let him win because he didn't have a lawyer.
[01:36:41.600 --> 01:36:55.600] And this gentleman, the plaintiff in the case filed the written complaints and appealed the written complaints and nobody did anything until he found out there was a recording.
[01:36:55.600 --> 01:37:03.600] Then he took the recording and put it out on YouTube and the judge was gone two weeks later.
[01:37:03.600 --> 01:37:13.600] So that's the whole thing is they can't hide the corruption from the fact that everybody will have the obvious ability to do this.
[01:37:13.600 --> 01:37:22.600] So I've been meeting with state representatives an average of one or two a week in the Dallas-Port Worth area.
[01:37:22.600 --> 01:37:26.600] And they've been very receptive to moving this forward.
[01:37:26.600 --> 01:37:38.600] Now, I've been disappointed because one of the legislators I was trying to work with to get some changes last legislative session was state Senator Wendy Davis who is now running for governor.
[01:37:38.600 --> 01:37:49.600] And I've been disappointed because I've been trying to sit down and get her to take a law and order and nobody's above the law stance in her campaign.
[01:37:49.600 --> 01:37:50.600] And we were friends.
[01:37:50.600 --> 01:37:52.600] I live in her district.
[01:37:52.600 --> 01:37:53.600] I've met with her in the past.
[01:37:53.600 --> 01:37:59.600] Randy was there when we met and talked with her in the Senate hearings.
[01:37:59.600 --> 01:38:11.600] And yet I've been unable to meet with her and she's not being able to take a law and order stance, which is kind of unusual since the fact that she's a Harvard-trained lawyer.
[01:38:11.600 --> 01:38:18.600] So the issue there is that I'm not sure what's up with that type of situation.
[01:38:18.600 --> 01:38:28.600] So the way I've been putting it to the legislators I've been talking to has been we've got a problem in the courts.
[01:38:28.600 --> 01:38:30.600] There are corrupt judges out there.
[01:38:30.600 --> 01:38:32.600] There are corrupt attorneys out there.
[01:38:32.600 --> 01:38:35.600] And we need to do something about it.
[01:38:35.600 --> 01:38:38.600] And there's only two things you can be in the legislature.
[01:38:38.600 --> 01:38:44.600] You're either for changing the system and fixing the problem or you're against it.
[01:38:44.600 --> 01:38:46.600] There is no third option.
[01:38:46.600 --> 01:38:50.600] And at this point in time, Wendy Davis is trying to sit on the fence.
[01:38:50.600 --> 01:39:01.600] And frankly, fence-sitting is just as bad as being part of the corrupt autocratic system that's been in place.
[01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:02.600] Hold on, Ken.
[01:39:02.600 --> 01:39:05.600] Are you on a headset?
[01:39:05.600 --> 01:39:06.600] Yes, I am.
[01:39:06.600 --> 01:39:10.600] We're getting some bad feedback, some beeping.
[01:39:10.600 --> 01:39:12.600] Yeah, there's some weird beeps.
[01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:16.600] Can you try it without the headset?
[01:39:16.600 --> 01:39:17.600] Is it better now?
[01:39:17.600 --> 01:39:19.600] Oh, much better.
[01:39:19.600 --> 01:39:20.600] Much better.
[01:39:20.600 --> 01:39:25.600] I moved away from a noisy fan in the other room.
[01:39:25.600 --> 01:39:27.600] Okay, I'm still getting that beeping.
[01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:32.600] The beeping is not too awful bad, but your voice is sounding a lot better.
[01:39:32.600 --> 01:39:34.600] It was chopping and breaking up before.
[01:39:34.600 --> 01:39:35.600] Okay, go ahead.
[01:39:35.600 --> 01:39:38.600] That sounds better.
[01:39:38.600 --> 01:39:43.600] So the issue is that sitting on the fence is not an acceptable solution.
[01:39:43.600 --> 01:39:44.600] Wait a minute.
[01:39:44.600 --> 01:39:45.600] That is a problem.
[01:39:45.600 --> 01:39:49.600] Can you try turning your mic down a little bit on Skype?
[01:39:49.600 --> 01:39:52.600] Oh, no, you're on your headset.
[01:39:52.600 --> 01:39:53.600] Never mind.
[01:39:53.600 --> 01:39:54.600] You can't.
[01:39:54.600 --> 01:39:55.600] Move the mic a little bit away from your mouth.
[01:39:55.600 --> 01:39:56.600] That might help.
[01:39:56.600 --> 01:39:57.600] Okay.
[01:39:57.600 --> 01:39:58.600] Can you hear me now?
[01:39:58.600 --> 01:39:59.600] Yes.
[01:39:59.600 --> 01:40:00.600] Go ahead.
[01:40:00.600 --> 01:40:01.600] That sounds better.
[01:40:01.600 --> 01:40:02.600] Okay.
[01:40:02.600 --> 01:40:07.600] So the issue at this point is Wendy Davis is attempting to sit on the fence and do nothing
[01:40:07.600 --> 01:40:10.600] and doing nothing allows the evil to continue.
[01:40:10.600 --> 01:40:17.600] So I'm not happy with Wendy Davis' approach on the fact that she didn't do anything to
[01:40:17.600 --> 01:40:21.600] modify the judicial conduct permission.
[01:40:21.600 --> 01:40:24.600] So this is some of the lobbying we're doing.
[01:40:24.600 --> 01:40:27.600] One of the platforms that proposed...
[01:40:27.600 --> 01:40:28.600] Yes?
[01:40:28.600 --> 01:40:29.600] Randy?
[01:40:29.600 --> 01:40:32.600] Did I lose you, Ken?
[01:40:32.600 --> 01:40:35.600] No, I thought you were asking me a question.
[01:40:35.600 --> 01:40:36.600] Oh, no, no.
[01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:38.600] That headset is still a problem.
[01:40:38.600 --> 01:40:40.600] Can you try it without the headset?
[01:40:40.600 --> 01:40:41.600] Okay.
[01:40:41.600 --> 01:40:44.600] Let me turn it off and put it on speaker.
[01:40:44.600 --> 01:40:46.600] The speaker won't work at all.
[01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:47.600] Okay.
[01:40:47.600 --> 01:40:50.600] The speaker will sound like you're in a well.
[01:40:50.600 --> 01:40:51.600] Okay.
[01:40:51.600 --> 01:40:52.600] It's not on headset.
[01:40:52.600 --> 01:40:53.600] Oh, muy better.
[01:40:53.600 --> 01:40:54.600] Muy better.
[01:40:54.600 --> 01:40:55.600] Okay.
[01:40:55.600 --> 01:40:56.600] Okay.
[01:40:56.600 --> 01:40:57.600] Go ahead.
[01:40:57.600 --> 01:41:01.600] And you met with a couple of legislators here recently.
[01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:02.600] Yeah.
[01:41:02.600 --> 01:41:07.600] At some extensive meetings, most of the time when I meet with them down in Austin, you
[01:41:07.600 --> 01:41:09.600] get 15 minutes.
[01:41:09.600 --> 01:41:12.600] If you really grab their attention, they give you 15 more.
[01:41:12.600 --> 01:41:16.600] I've met with several of these for more than two hours.
[01:41:16.600 --> 01:41:18.600] So we've gotten a lot of material.
[01:41:18.600 --> 01:41:23.600] And what's really interesting is when you start telling stories about horrible injustices
[01:41:23.600 --> 01:41:26.600] in the court, all of a sudden it strikes a chord with them.
[01:41:26.600 --> 01:41:35.600] Somebody, usually a family member or a close friend that's experienced something like that
[01:41:35.600 --> 01:41:36.600] before.
[01:41:36.600 --> 01:41:41.600] And now all of a sudden it makes sense why they were so upset about what had taken place.
[01:41:41.600 --> 01:41:49.600] So there's a very good consensus at this point in time to put some real teeth into these,
[01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:52.600] you know, State Commission on Judicial Conduct.
[01:41:52.600 --> 01:41:57.600] And just so that the listeners that are in Texas recognize the State Bar Association
[01:41:57.600 --> 01:42:00.600] comes under Sunset Review next year.
[01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:06.600] So those people who have filed complaints and gotten that mediocre, if not absolutely
[01:42:06.600 --> 01:42:10.600] worthless letter back from the Bar Association, save those.
[01:42:10.600 --> 01:42:11.600] We need those.
[01:42:11.600 --> 01:42:17.600] We need those to go down there and testify before the Sunset Commission and to go ahead
[01:42:17.600 --> 01:42:23.600] and try to put pressure on them to change, again, some of the processes of how they deal
[01:42:23.600 --> 01:42:26.600] with corrupt attorneys.
[01:42:26.600 --> 01:42:35.600] Maybe we can get them to turn the State Bar over to non-lawyers so we get the fox out
[01:42:35.600 --> 01:42:37.600] of the hen house.
[01:42:37.600 --> 01:42:43.600] Well, frankly, the general consensus that I've gotten with working with Lance Flores
[01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:47.600] is the idea that the Bar Association should be a value-added organization.
[01:42:47.600 --> 01:42:50.600] It's a voluntary membership.
[01:42:50.600 --> 01:42:54.600] They should be providing information that helps attorneys do their jobs better,
[01:42:54.600 --> 01:42:56.600] training and so forth like that.
[01:42:56.600 --> 01:42:57.600] I have no problem.
[01:42:57.600 --> 01:43:01.600] But they shouldn't be in the disciplinary process at all.
[01:43:01.600 --> 01:43:05.600] It should be a professional licensing organization that's a state agency,
[01:43:05.600 --> 01:43:10.600] not what they call the bar, which is essentially a quasi-state agency.
[01:43:10.600 --> 01:43:15.600] So it's a private agency as long as you're trying to do something that the state can't do,
[01:43:15.600 --> 01:43:20.600] but then when you want public information from them, they suddenly become a state agency
[01:43:20.600 --> 01:43:22.600] where everything's secret.
[01:43:22.600 --> 01:43:25.600] So they change hats all the time.
[01:43:25.600 --> 01:43:26.600] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:43:26.600 --> 01:43:27.600] They're always doing that.
[01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:29.600] It's the musical hats.
[01:43:29.600 --> 01:43:33.600] And the biggest thing that the Bar Association, as well as judicial conduct,
[01:43:33.600 --> 01:43:41.600] can be blamed for is the process of trying to file a complaint is that you can't save a local copy
[01:43:41.600 --> 01:43:42.600] to your hard drive.
[01:43:42.600 --> 01:43:46.600] You can print it out, but you can't save a local copy so you can print it.
[01:43:46.600 --> 01:43:48.600] Okay, hang on just a second.
[01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:49.600] We're about to go to break.
[01:43:49.600 --> 01:43:52.600] This is Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Wheel of Law Radio.
[01:43:52.600 --> 01:43:56.600] Our call-in number is 512-646-1984.
[01:43:56.600 --> 01:43:59.600] We'll be right back.
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[01:46:21.600 --> 01:46:23.600] Okay, we are back.
[01:46:23.600 --> 01:46:26.600] Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Rule of Law Radio,
[01:46:26.600 --> 01:46:31.600] and we're talking to the illustrious Ken Magnuson.
[01:46:31.600 --> 01:46:38.600] Just to show my respect, I even pronounced his name right.
[01:46:38.600 --> 01:46:41.600] That's not what you said over the break, Randy.
[01:46:41.600 --> 01:46:45.600] Hey, hey, hey, hey, cut that out, you're getting me in trouble.
[01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:49.600] He pronounced it right once in 10 years, so.
[01:46:49.600 --> 01:46:51.600] Well, bless his pointed little head.
[01:46:51.600 --> 01:46:53.600] Yeah, can't be worse than that.
[01:46:53.600 --> 01:46:55.600] Nobody don't notice.
[01:46:55.600 --> 01:47:03.600] And at the Sunset hearing on the State Commission on Judicial Conduct,
[01:47:03.600 --> 01:47:07.600] you proposed some changes.
[01:47:07.600 --> 01:47:09.600] And some of those apparently were accepted.
[01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:12.600] Will you kind of go through that a little bit for us?
[01:47:12.600 --> 01:47:15.600] Well, anybody that wants to look at the details,
[01:47:15.600 --> 01:47:20.600] you can go out to the Texas Sunset Commission website and look at past reports.
[01:47:20.600 --> 01:47:27.600] And you can just look into 2012 and look for the State Commission on Judicial Conduct.
[01:47:27.600 --> 01:47:30.600] It will open up a whole subdirectory on PDF files,
[01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:33.600] which will include all of the submissions made to the agency,
[01:47:33.600 --> 01:47:38.600] which will include my report as well as the staff recommendations that they did.
[01:47:38.600 --> 01:47:47.600] But the laundry list of things that we wanted to do is actually replete in the final report of the committee.
[01:47:47.600 --> 01:47:50.600] But they didn't adopt any of it, and the legislature didn't change it,
[01:47:50.600 --> 01:47:55.600] which means that they essentially, you know, how can I say it?
[01:47:55.600 --> 01:47:59.600] The Sunset Commission essentially just told the people in Texas,
[01:47:59.600 --> 01:48:03.600] well, we don't really care enough about your justice to change any of this.
[01:48:03.600 --> 01:48:06.600] And that's basically what came out of this.
[01:48:06.600 --> 01:48:12.600] But I can go through some of the provisions that were in here, the various issues.
[01:48:12.600 --> 01:48:19.600] What the Sunset Commission was mainly worried about is that the State Commission on Judicial Conduct,
[01:48:19.600 --> 01:48:29.600] the executive director, Shawna Willing, essentially tried to claim attorney-client privilege,
[01:48:29.600 --> 01:48:33.600] and she couldn't turn over documents to the Sunset Commission
[01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:39.600] that related to documents that she submitted to the commissioners, which are mostly judges.
[01:48:39.600 --> 01:48:44.600] There's two non-judges that are on that commission, but most of them are judges,
[01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:48.600] and tried to say that she acted as an advisory capacity.
[01:48:48.600 --> 01:48:51.600] So that's the main thing that they got to be in their bonnet about,
[01:48:51.600 --> 01:48:56.600] was the fact that they didn't want the agency to withhold these documents.
[01:48:56.600 --> 01:49:00.600] So they changed the legislative intent of the agency
[01:49:00.600 --> 01:49:03.600] in such a way that they have to turn over those documents now.
[01:49:03.600 --> 01:49:10.600] But some of the other lists, including some of the other major issues that were suggested,
[01:49:10.600 --> 01:49:17.600] one of them was the videotaping, and even though I have that in mind,
[01:49:17.600 --> 01:49:22.600] it wasn't one of the primary issues I was focusing on at the time.
[01:49:22.600 --> 01:49:30.600] But some of the comments that were there was they had a lot of people
[01:49:30.600 --> 01:49:33.600] that wanted to essentially abolish the agency.
[01:49:33.600 --> 01:49:36.600] Well, that's not going to happen because the State Commission on Judicial Conduct
[01:49:36.600 --> 01:49:43.600] is required to exist based on the Texas Constitution, so you're not going to make it go away.
[01:49:43.600 --> 01:49:55.600] My suggestion was to retool the agency and create it as a prosecutorial organization
[01:49:55.600 --> 01:50:03.600] so that they would have the ability to convene a grand jury, to subpoena witnesses,
[01:50:03.600 --> 01:50:13.600] to actually criminally prosecute the judge, and to remove them from office
[01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:17.600] or issue stays in proceedings based on the issue.
[01:50:17.600 --> 01:50:21.600] And my suggestions, and I'm not going to read them all because they're quite lengthy,
[01:50:21.600 --> 01:50:25.600] I think I've got 21 of them here, but transparency was the first one.
[01:50:25.600 --> 01:50:28.600] Most judges are elected and all appeals court judges are elected.
[01:50:28.600 --> 01:50:33.600] There is an overriding public interest and necessity to have all complaints remain public.
[01:50:33.600 --> 01:50:35.600] The current system, as designed by the good old boys,
[01:50:35.600 --> 01:50:41.600] have a closer resemblance to a Soviet-style system than the one that propagandized openness
[01:50:41.600 --> 01:50:46.600] and public access with clear visibility.
[01:50:46.600 --> 01:50:52.600] The second one was frequent sunset reviews until such time as the agency showed improvement
[01:50:52.600 --> 01:50:55.600] and let the fewer complaints.
[01:50:55.600 --> 01:51:00.600] Motion to stay proceedings when a person would come to the commission
[01:51:00.600 --> 01:51:05.600] and ask for a trial court to be held accountable for the fact
[01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:10.600] that it wasn't following the rules of civil procedure or criminal procedure.
[01:51:10.600 --> 01:51:15.600] Reports by officials that all reports submitted by the judiciary
[01:51:15.600 --> 01:51:21.600] or by the members of the Texas Sunset Commission would have to be submitted under oath.
[01:51:21.600 --> 01:51:27.600] Complaint response as it stands now, if you file a complaint against the judge,
[01:51:27.600 --> 01:51:32.600] the judge answers the commission, but you never get to see that answer.
[01:51:32.600 --> 01:51:36.600] We feel that that is totally inappropriate because it essentially allows the judge
[01:51:36.600 --> 01:51:38.600] to lie through his teeth or her teeth.
[01:51:38.600 --> 01:51:41.600] It's an equal opportunity corruption.
[01:51:41.600 --> 01:51:48.600] And there's no ability for the party that filed the complaint to rebut what they're saying
[01:51:48.600 --> 01:51:53.600] or show that it's an absolute lie.
[01:51:53.600 --> 01:51:58.600] Dismissals, any motion to dismiss should have an actual hearing before the commission
[01:51:58.600 --> 01:52:03.600] where both parties, the complainant, the commission, and the party that's been accused
[01:52:03.600 --> 01:52:06.600] can make arguments before the commission at a hearing
[01:52:06.600 --> 01:52:13.600] whether or not the complaint would be dismissed.
[01:52:13.600 --> 01:52:17.600] There would be transcripts of original hearings and trials.
[01:52:17.600 --> 01:52:20.600] There would be a jury.
[01:52:20.600 --> 01:52:23.600] So if the complainant wanted to have a jury trial,
[01:52:23.600 --> 01:52:25.600] regardless of whether the agency wanted it or not,
[01:52:25.600 --> 01:52:30.600] there would be a jury trial to determine whether or not the judge had committed misconduct
[01:52:30.600 --> 01:52:32.600] and then be removed from the bench.
[01:52:32.600 --> 01:52:34.600] And there would be mandatory removals.
[01:52:34.600 --> 01:52:38.600] And we're down to like number 10 and 11, which is mandatory removals
[01:52:38.600 --> 01:52:42.600] where a judge is found to have committed criminal acts while on the bench
[01:52:42.600 --> 01:52:46.600] to harm a party in front of their court and it was malicious.
[01:52:46.600 --> 01:52:47.600] They're gone.
[01:52:47.600 --> 01:52:48.600] That's it.
[01:52:48.600 --> 01:52:51.600] And they'll be prosecuted criminally for it.
[01:52:51.600 --> 01:52:52.600] There would be fines.
[01:52:52.600 --> 01:52:56.600] Fines would be implemented based on how the party was harmed
[01:52:56.600 --> 01:53:00.600] and the state of Texas would have to get these fines.
[01:53:00.600 --> 01:53:05.600] And part of the fines, my recommendation was half the fine that was collected
[01:53:05.600 --> 01:53:09.600] from whoever the guilty judge was for whatever misconduct occurred,
[01:53:09.600 --> 01:53:15.600] half of that would go to the complaining party.
[01:53:15.600 --> 01:53:22.600] That would give a good incentive for people to actually file complaints.
[01:53:22.600 --> 01:53:23.600] Yes.
[01:53:23.600 --> 01:53:28.600] Well, it would also be somewhat reparation for the fact that they got put through this
[01:53:28.600 --> 01:53:32.600] separate from their court case.
[01:53:32.600 --> 01:53:36.600] The public hearings, which was number 16, we actually got.
[01:53:36.600 --> 01:53:38.600] We now have the public hearings.
[01:53:38.600 --> 01:53:41.600] Initially it was in the bill as every year.
[01:53:41.600 --> 01:53:45.600] And a retired judge that was state representative,
[01:53:45.600 --> 01:53:52.600] Tyon Lewis from Midland, Odessa, on his own volition,
[01:53:52.600 --> 01:53:57.600] removed it from every year and made it every other year.
[01:53:57.600 --> 01:54:01.600] I think the commissioners should be elected from the public.
[01:54:01.600 --> 01:54:05.600] I'm also thinking that they don't all have to be judges.
[01:54:05.600 --> 01:54:07.600] I think right now they're all appointed
[01:54:07.600 --> 01:54:12.600] and they're all political cronies appointed by either the state senate,
[01:54:12.600 --> 01:54:15.600] the governor's office or the house of representatives.
[01:54:15.600 --> 01:54:22.600] And essentially it's all the people that are in the political power play
[01:54:22.600 --> 01:54:24.600] and it's part of the oligarchy.
[01:54:24.600 --> 01:54:31.600] So the video and audio taping is number 21
[01:54:31.600 --> 01:54:35.600] and that should be done because of what they're doing in Ohio.
[01:54:35.600 --> 01:54:42.600] And basically that's the overriding need for the changes,
[01:54:42.600 --> 01:54:45.600] is to give the agency the ability then to go ahead
[01:54:45.600 --> 01:54:49.600] and go after judges that commit crimes on the bench.
[01:54:49.600 --> 01:54:53.600] If a judge sits there, if a judge has a pro se litigant,
[01:54:53.600 --> 01:54:56.600] and I know a lot of followers into the show are pro se
[01:54:56.600 --> 01:54:58.600] because they can't afford an attorney
[01:54:58.600 --> 01:55:01.600] or they've been shortchanged by attorneys in the past,
[01:55:01.600 --> 01:55:05.600] what it says is as soon as the judge and the opposite counsel,
[01:55:05.600 --> 01:55:09.600] opposing counsel get together and decide to go into judges chamber
[01:55:09.600 --> 01:55:12.600] for a conference and they exclude the pro se litigant,
[01:55:12.600 --> 01:55:14.600] they've committed a crime.
[01:55:14.600 --> 01:55:17.600] They're conspiring to deny due process.
[01:55:17.600 --> 01:55:20.600] This is absolutely forbidden and yet there really isn't
[01:55:20.600 --> 01:55:23.600] any specific criminal law that addresses this.
[01:55:23.600 --> 01:55:26.600] And that's one of the things, that's one of the platforms
[01:55:26.600 --> 01:55:29.600] for the Republican party coming up at the state convention
[01:55:29.600 --> 01:55:31.600] to make that a crime.
[01:55:31.600 --> 01:55:34.600] We've been seeing a lot of that in the Texas family courts
[01:55:34.600 --> 01:55:39.600] around the state, where associate judges are essentially
[01:55:39.600 --> 01:55:42.600] having private meetings with counsel,
[01:55:42.600 --> 01:55:44.600] including special counsel that's assigned,
[01:55:44.600 --> 01:55:47.600] such as ad litem or amicus attorneys.
[01:55:47.600 --> 01:55:51.600] These people go and meet with the judge in chambers
[01:55:51.600 --> 01:55:53.600] and they do whatever they want because it's off the record,
[01:55:53.600 --> 01:55:55.600] and the pro se litigant's sitting out in the courtroom
[01:55:55.600 --> 01:55:57.600] not knowing what's going on.
[01:55:57.600 --> 01:56:00.600] Essentially they're conspiring to fix the case against them.
[01:56:00.600 --> 01:56:05.600] Wait a minute, isn't that already beyond scope?
[01:56:05.600 --> 01:56:08.600] But nobody's enforcing it.
[01:56:08.600 --> 01:56:12.600] Well, if the judge exerts or purports to exert an authority
[01:56:12.600 --> 01:56:16.600] he doesn't have and that authority is restricting
[01:56:16.600 --> 01:56:22.600] the pro se litigant from a meeting that becomes ex parte,
[01:56:22.600 --> 01:56:26.600] that would be official oppression.
[01:56:26.600 --> 01:56:31.600] I agree, but the problem is how do you preserve the error?
[01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:35.600] The problem is most of the associate judge courtrooms
[01:56:35.600 --> 01:56:39.600] are not on the record.
[01:56:39.600 --> 01:56:43.600] Supposedly in the family courts there's associate judges involved.
[01:56:43.600 --> 01:56:46.600] In the family code there is supposed to be a provision
[01:56:46.600 --> 01:56:52.600] for how you can put them on the record in the associate judges'
[01:56:52.600 --> 01:56:54.600] hearings before the associate judge,
[01:56:54.600 --> 01:56:57.600] but the district judge is supposed to prescribe how they do that,
[01:56:57.600 --> 01:57:00.600] and what they do is a very clever, well,
[01:57:00.600 --> 01:57:06.600] if you want it on the record you've got to bring your own court reporter.
[01:57:06.600 --> 01:57:08.600] Well, that's not what the statute says.
[01:57:08.600 --> 01:57:11.600] So they talk everybody out of it because they don't have the money
[01:57:11.600 --> 01:57:15.600] to hire their own court reporter, but that's not what the statute says.
[01:57:15.600 --> 01:57:19.600] The statute says that the district judge shall prescribe the method
[01:57:19.600 --> 01:57:21.600] by which it would be recorded.
[01:57:21.600 --> 01:57:23.600] That means tape recordings.
[01:57:23.600 --> 01:57:26.600] The other thing I'm talking to state representatives about is that by
[01:57:26.600 --> 01:57:32.600] notice any party should be able to record the hearings, period.
[01:57:32.600 --> 01:57:34.600] That's the way it should be.
[01:57:34.600 --> 01:57:37.600] But if we get the video and audio taping, we won't need it anyway.
[01:57:37.600 --> 01:57:41.600] You can get the video and audio tape from whoever does that,
[01:57:41.600 --> 01:57:43.600] and we're not going to let the courts do it.
[01:57:43.600 --> 01:57:45.600] What we want to do is have a separate agency.
[01:57:45.600 --> 01:57:50.600] The Secretary of State oversees the management of regulations
[01:57:50.600 --> 01:57:52.600] over notaries and court reporters.
[01:57:52.600 --> 01:57:54.600] So we ought to have the Secretary of State,
[01:57:54.600 --> 01:57:59.600] the entity that does the video and the audio recordings.
[01:57:59.600 --> 01:58:03.600] So that would make a big difference.
[01:58:03.600 --> 01:58:04.600] Okay, hold on.
[01:58:04.600 --> 01:58:08.600] We are out of show.
[01:58:08.600 --> 01:58:10.600] We need to bring you on earlier.
[01:58:10.600 --> 01:58:14.600] How about next Thursday, Ken?
[01:58:14.600 --> 01:58:18.600] I'm preparing you for a video deposition the next day.
[01:58:18.600 --> 01:58:22.600] Okay, well, we'll work out a day where we can bring you on
[01:58:22.600 --> 01:58:25.600] and pretty much do a whole show here on this.
[01:58:25.600 --> 01:58:26.600] Get a little deeper into this.
[01:58:26.600 --> 01:58:28.600] This is good stuff.
[01:58:28.600 --> 01:58:30.600] Okay, we are out of time.
[01:58:30.600 --> 01:58:31.600] Thank you all for listening.
[01:58:31.600 --> 01:58:35.600] This is Randy Kelton, Steve Skidmore, Wheel of Law Radio.
[01:58:35.600 --> 01:58:40.600] We will be back next week, next Thursday at 8 p.m. Central,
[01:58:40.600 --> 01:58:42.600] and then again Friday.
[01:58:42.600 --> 01:58:44.600] Friday we do this four-hour show.
[01:58:44.600 --> 01:58:49.600] So call in, ask us questions, dump the jumps.
[01:59:14.600 --> 01:59:16.600] We'll be right back.
[01:59:44.600 --> 01:59:56.600] We'll be right back.