ROL_2014-02-28_16k_Hr1-2.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:07.000]  This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates.
[00:07.000 --> 00:09.000]  Online at thelibertybeat.com.
[00:09.000 --> 00:14.000]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Friday, February 28th, 2014.
[00:14.000 --> 00:17.000]  Gold opened today at $1,332.
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[01:00.000 --> 01:06.000]  The Austin City Council voted unanimously yesterday to continue the fluoridation of Austin's water supply.
[01:06.000 --> 01:17.000]  The vote came after 45 minutes of testimony from community leaders, toxicology experts, and a mother who stated Austin's water gave her daughter dental fluorosis from her consumption of fluoridated water while pregnant.
[01:17.000 --> 01:27.000]  Despite the pleas to end the practice, the council passed the measure after a motion from Councilwoman Laura Morrison and the second from Councilman Bill Snellman.
[01:27.000 --> 01:36.000]  On Sunday, Central Texas Gunworks in Come and Take at Austin will celebrate Texas Independence Day with an open carry rally featuring music, education, and food.
[01:36.000 --> 01:41.000]  Participants are encouraged to bring long guns and pre-1899 black-powder revolvers.
[01:41.000 --> 01:46.000]  Central Texas Gunworks will also be unveiling a Bitcoin ATM inside the gun store.
[01:46.000 --> 01:52.000]  Texas Firearms Freedom will hold a training session for those interested in working on constitutional carry through the state legislature.
[01:52.000 --> 02:02.000]  The event begins at 2 p.m. at CTGW on 321 West Menwyte Boulevard, Suite 203 in Austin.
[02:02.000 --> 02:12.000]  A government contractor based out of Fort Worth, Texas has been awarded a $145 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to build security towers along the border.
[02:12.000 --> 02:21.000]  EFW will be tasked with building fixed towers capable of detecting, tracking, identifying, and classifying suspicious activity along the Arizona-Mexico border.
[02:21.000 --> 02:25.000]  EFW is expected to begin creating the towers later this year.
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[02:51.000 --> 02:56.000]  This is the Liberty Beat for Friday, February 28, 2014.
[02:56.000 --> 03:11.000]  Check out the website at thelibertybeat.com.
[03:27.000 --> 03:32.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[03:32.000 --> 03:38.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[03:38.000 --> 03:43.000]  When you were eight and you had bad traits, you'd go to school and learn the golden rule.
[03:43.000 --> 03:46.000]  So why are you acting like a bloody fool?
[03:46.000 --> 03:53.000]  Welcome to Rule of Law Radio, folks. Tonight is Friday, February 28.
[03:53.000 --> 03:58.000]  I am one of your hosts, Steve Skidmore, here tonight with Joe Esquivel.
[03:58.000 --> 04:10.000]  Randy has been gracious enough to give us the first couple hours to run down a list of things to do in quiet title actions.
[04:10.000 --> 04:16.000]  There's been a lot of confusion. Quiet title sounds simple, but it's not.
[04:16.000 --> 04:30.000]  We've got some new listeners tuning in tonight, so I think I should preface this show by saying that the opinions expressed on Rule of Law Radio are those of the hosts, their guests, and listeners.
[04:30.000 --> 04:36.000]  The content of this broadcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not to be construed as legal advice.
[04:36.000 --> 04:42.000]  If you're in need of legal advice, please consult licensed legal professionals.
[04:42.000 --> 04:51.000]  So, Joe, you've got... Joe's been doing a lot of research and, well, I like to call it due diligence.
[04:51.000 --> 05:06.000]  And we found some very... Actually, Joe's found some very interesting things that I think might help people come to a better understanding of a foundation that you want to set under your quiet title action.
[05:06.000 --> 05:08.000]  So I'm going to hand it over to Joe.
[05:08.000 --> 05:12.000]  All right. I'd like to welcome everybody to tonight's show.
[05:12.000 --> 05:23.000]  And basically, I'd like to cover a little bit of information as it pertains to a couple of articles that I've written lately.
[05:23.000 --> 05:29.000]  And the reason is because I've been hearing so many different things.
[05:29.000 --> 05:41.000]  So we're going to go over a little bit of the article, and the name of the article was called, When Should I Invite You to My Quiet Title Party?
[05:41.000 --> 05:48.000]  In looking at the many strategies that are being brought forward that pertain to wrongful foreclosure actions,
[05:48.000 --> 06:00.000]  I have to tell you people, there's nothing that's more disappointing than the quiet title complaints that state a lot of information, but they lack substance, form, and timeliness.
[06:00.000 --> 06:13.000]  Now, there has been a misnomer in the application of using a quiet title complaint in thinking that the quiet title cause of action is a fix-all for all the problems pertaining to the title of real property
[06:13.000 --> 06:19.000]  that has been clouded by the actions of other parties attempting to claim an interest to title.
[06:19.000 --> 06:26.000]  The problem that in many instances, this is putting the cart in front of the horse. It doesn't work.
[06:26.000 --> 06:41.000]  I have viewed countless quiet title complaints, and yes, while a lot of claims are being made and a lot of facts are being stated within these quiet title complaints, it's just sizzle.
[06:41.000 --> 06:46.000]  There's no viable substance to carry the cause of action.
[06:46.000 --> 06:59.000]  A complaint that pleads facts of entitlement relief, all right, and quoting Twombly, Allentic Bell v. Twombly, many times parties are named and claims of harm are stated.
[06:59.000 --> 07:09.000]  However, these claims are not sufficient to support a claim upon which relief can be granted.
[07:09.000 --> 07:25.000]  All right, as a result of the lack of proper pleading, all right, many times the defendant's final emotion to dismiss and a Rule 12b6 is ordered by the courts.
[07:25.000 --> 07:43.000]  Many times these state complaints are remanded to federal, and they use the diversity of citizenship between the parties, and they use the threshold for the monetary value, which is $75,000.
[07:43.000 --> 07:53.000]  And while this is very weak in what they do, it is enough many times to get it to the federal courts, where then they finally motion to dismiss.
[07:53.000 --> 08:05.000]  Now, lacking legal sufficiency of the claims being presented is one of the many reasons that these quiet title complaints fail.
[08:05.000 --> 08:15.000]  It is in my opinion that to file a quiet title complaint before a determination of superior right to title has been made, all right, is untimely.
[08:15.000 --> 08:19.000]  Unfortunately, that is not what is being done.
[08:19.000 --> 08:28.000]  Many times parties are named to participate in the quiet title action, and then they're told that they do not have standing to respond.
[08:28.000 --> 08:40.000]  So I would file a quiet title complaint if I was a homeowner, or many attorneys would do it, in which you name everybody and their mother that you think is related to this action.
[08:40.000 --> 08:46.000]  And then once they are named, you say, I'm sorry, you can't come to the party, you have nothing to do with it.
[08:46.000 --> 08:53.000]  So I'm looking at it a little different, all right.
[08:53.000 --> 09:02.000]  Rather than attempting to go forth and using quiet title complaint that enjoins named parties, and then attempts to sever the party from the action,
[09:02.000 --> 09:13.000]  first one needs to do is to make a determination as to the copability of the parties that will be allowed to participate in this arena of judicial litigation, all right.
[09:13.000 --> 09:22.000]  And in my opinion, I think an alternative, before you jump into the fire, look first.
[09:22.000 --> 09:28.000]  Look at possibly declaratory relief.
[09:28.000 --> 09:34.000]  All right, let's find out who are the parties that should be named.
[09:34.000 --> 09:44.000]  All right, so before we're going to have a party and invite everyone, all right, let's make a determination as to who should be invited.
[09:44.000 --> 09:55.000]  Because there is nothing worse than inviting everybody, all right, and then saying, I'm sorry, I don't like you being here.
[09:55.000 --> 09:58.000]  But that is what happens time after time again.
[09:58.000 --> 10:09.000]  Now, if one were to go into declaratory relief, such as a complaint for declaratory relief pertaining to specific documents,
[10:09.000 --> 10:15.000]  such as an assignment or a document that purports to be an assignment,
[10:15.000 --> 10:29.000]  using the information based in the four corners of that document, is that document proper as an assignment,
[10:29.000 --> 10:35.000]  whether it be an assignment of deed of trust, an assignment of mortgage?
[10:35.000 --> 10:50.000]  Because if you get declaratory relief pertaining to parties that can be prohibited from playing in this game, I believe you will be much better off.
[10:50.000 --> 11:02.000]  If I'm looking at documents that parties are attempting to put into public record, and I can show that these documents are not eligible to be recorded,
[11:02.000 --> 11:11.000]  and we can disqualify these players from playing in the party of a quiet title action or any other complaint,
[11:11.000 --> 11:19.000]  I believe that you stand a much better chance then to get your declaratory relief, then go for injunctive relief,
[11:19.000 --> 11:28.000]  and then go after whatever quiet title action or action for damages.
[11:28.000 --> 11:33.000]  So, again, this is completely different to what is being done today.
[11:33.000 --> 11:36.000]  If you're going to build a house, you've got to have a solid foundation under it.
[11:36.000 --> 11:43.000]  Right. One of the things that if you're going to build, like you said, Steve, is it going to be brick? Is it going to be straw?
[11:43.000 --> 11:51.000]  You know, that's one of the things that I've looked at. All right. If I'm going to build a house, I want a solid house.
[11:51.000 --> 11:58.000]  Okay. I want to make sure that what I'm building isn't going to fall apart. All right.
[11:58.000 --> 12:04.000]  And laying the proper foundation is essential before one can become building upon it.
[12:04.000 --> 12:09.000]  So, and this goes to almost anything that's in life. All right.
[12:09.000 --> 12:15.000]  So it's no different than issues pertaining to foreclosure, whether you're going to go on the offense or defense.
[12:15.000 --> 12:21.000]  When one decides to start building, you need to make a determination as to what ingredients to use.
[12:21.000 --> 12:25.000]  Do I use straw or bricks? And a foreclosure action,
[12:25.000 --> 12:30.000]  declaratory relief could be considered as a brick and as a good start.
[12:30.000 --> 12:39.000]  Quiet title, in this host's opinion, is very weak to start with it
[12:39.000 --> 12:45.000]  because you're going to try and stack everything on top and it's going to crumble.
[12:45.000 --> 12:54.000]  When you get removed to federal court and they're trying to find a cause of action, you said, well, we have quiet title.
[12:54.000 --> 12:59.000]  We have robo signers.
[12:59.000 --> 13:09.000]  Many pro se litigants and even many attorneys are fooled into thinking that wrongful foreclosure is a valid cause of action.
[13:09.000 --> 13:17.000]  We're going to apply that to the quiet title. Wrongful foreclosure is not a cause of action.
[13:17.000 --> 13:25.000]  Robo signers, not a valid cause of action. It's a claim.
[13:25.000 --> 13:38.000]  But if not properly pled out both factually and code by statutes, then you're going to get your butt kicked all the way back.
[13:38.000 --> 13:48.000]  This house you're trying to build is going to get blown down. You are not going to have a leg to stand on.
[13:48.000 --> 13:55.000]  A one-legged paper hanger will stand a better chance of standing up than you will in court.
[13:55.000 --> 14:02.000]  So one of the things, again, we need to look at is what is it that you are looking to do?
[14:02.000 --> 14:10.000]  Again, injunctive relief is very powerful remedy that can be used for specific behavior.
[14:10.000 --> 14:22.000]  All right. Now, again, before you get injunctive relief, in my opinion, I would go for declaratory relief.
[14:22.000 --> 14:31.000]  Again, injunctions work fantastic. Fine, we get a declaratory relief, we get a declaratory judgment.
[14:31.000 --> 14:36.000]  Now we're going to go for injunctive relief. All right. So what is an injunction?
[14:36.000 --> 14:41.000]  All right. An injunction, all right, is an order that is made by the court,
[14:41.000 --> 14:50.000]  either restraining or requiring performance of a specific act in order to give effect to the legal rights of the applicant.
[14:50.000 --> 14:58.000]  All right. Now, among the elements which must be proven by the party that is seeking the injunction is,
[14:58.000 --> 15:06.000]  one, it has no adequate remedy other than an injunction such as money damages.
[15:06.000 --> 15:12.000]  Two, truly irreparable harm will occur in the absence of an injunction.
[15:12.000 --> 15:22.000]  Three, it is more likely than not that the moving party will prevail on the underlying merits when the matter ultimately goes to trial.
[15:22.000 --> 15:30.000]  Four, the benefit to the party seeking the injunction outweighs the burden of the party opposed to the injunction.
[15:30.000 --> 15:37.000]  And five, the moving party's right to the relief sought is clear.
[15:37.000 --> 15:44.000]  If you can meet these elements, then you have a good stand, a good chance of getting an injunction.
[15:44.000 --> 15:54.000]  Many times the courts have enjoined trustee's sale for a property, all right, with an injunction prohibiting the sale.
[15:54.000 --> 16:05.000]  It does happen. But again, in my opinion, we need to make a determination as to the players that we're going to allow into the game.
[16:05.000 --> 16:06.000]  Would you agree, Steve?
[16:06.000 --> 16:14.000]  Yes. And it might be beneficial to, you know, for those, and I don't want to, I don't want to insult anybody's intelligence,
[16:14.000 --> 16:18.000]  but it might be beneficial to the listeners to actually define quiet title.
[16:18.000 --> 16:20.000]  What is a quiet title action?
[16:20.000 --> 16:35.000]  A quiet title action is, according to the freedictionary.com, quiet title action is a proceeding to establish an individual's right to ownership of real property against one or more adverse claimants.
[16:35.000 --> 16:37.000]  I hear the music in the background.
[16:37.000 --> 16:44.000]  I'd like to tell folks that for the first portion of this tonight's show, we're going to leave the telephone lines off.
[16:44.000 --> 16:50.000]  First half hour, we'll leave the telephone lines off, then we'll open them.
[16:50.000 --> 16:53.000]  Let me get back to my caller page.
[16:53.000 --> 16:55.000]  A lot of windows open.
[16:55.000 --> 16:59.000]  So with that, we'll be back after this short break.
[16:59.000 --> 17:06.000]  Short break.
[17:29.000 --> 17:32.000]  All right.
[17:32.000 --> 18:01.000]  We've come to trust YoungGevity so much, we became a marketing distributor along with Alex Jones, Ben Fuchs and many others.
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[18:41.000 --> 18:49.000]  For more information, please visit ruleoflawradio.com and click on the blue Michael Mears banner or email michaelmears at yahoo.com.
[18:49.000 --> 19:00.000]  That's ruleoflawradio.com or email m-i-c-h-a-e-l-m-i-r-r-a-s at yahoo.com to learn how to stop debt collectors now.
[19:00.000 --> 19:23.000]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, the LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[19:30.000 --> 19:46.000]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio.
[19:46.000 --> 19:50.000]  I am Steve Skidmore. To my right is Joe Esquivel.
[19:50.000 --> 19:53.000]  Randy Kelton is lurking around in the background.
[19:53.000 --> 19:57.000]  Now I said before we went out to break that we're going to leave the phones off.
[19:57.000 --> 20:02.000]  We're going to leave the phones on, but we're not going to take calls until the bottom of the hour.
[20:02.000 --> 20:14.000]  So if you'd like to call in and get in line, 512-646-1984, the number again, 512-646-1984 is the number to dial.
[20:14.000 --> 20:20.000]  If you'd like to call in, ask questions, give comments, tell us we're ugly or we got bad breath, whatever you want to do.
[20:20.000 --> 20:32.000]  But to get back to quiet title, there are basically three types of quiet title actions or let me rephrase that.
[20:32.000 --> 20:40.000]  There are three actions that result in quieting the controversy over possession of real property.
[20:40.000 --> 20:50.000]  One is a straight quiet title action. Another is trespass to try title. Another is slander of title.
[20:50.000 --> 21:01.000]  Now, dependent on the disposition of your mortgage, this kind of prefaces what type of action someone might seek.
[21:01.000 --> 21:07.000]  If it is pre-foreclosure, you might consider filing a quiet title action.
[21:07.000 --> 21:19.000]  If it is post-foreclosure, you might consider filing either suit under trespass to try title or slander of title.
[21:19.000 --> 21:23.000]  So with that said, Joe.
[21:23.000 --> 21:26.000]  All right. Well, thanks. You brought up an interesting subject.
[21:26.000 --> 21:32.000]  And again, depending on what state you're in, because.
[21:32.000 --> 21:37.000]  Yes, some states are title theory states. Some states are lean theory states.
[21:37.000 --> 21:43.000]  Here in Texas, we're in a lean theory state. So that means there's two things at play here.
[21:43.000 --> 21:48.000]  Number one, you won't have a mortgage. You'll have a deed of trust on your security.
[21:48.000 --> 21:53.000]  Your security instrument will say deed of trust in a title theory state.
[21:53.000 --> 21:58.000]  Your security instrument will be titled mortgage.
[21:58.000 --> 22:03.000]  There's another difference in these two theories in title theory states.
[22:03.000 --> 22:10.000]  These are judicial foreclosure states, which means that a foreclosing party has actually got to file suit
[22:10.000 --> 22:18.000]  and ask permission of the court to foreclose on real property as we're in a lean theory state.
[22:18.000 --> 22:23.000]  All the foreclosing party needs the courthouse for is a place to fence stolen property.
[22:23.000 --> 22:31.000]  And again, that's my opinion. Yes. And again, depending on what state you are in.
[22:31.000 --> 22:39.000]  OK. Some states have a very weak. Slander title quiet title.
[22:39.000 --> 22:45.000]  It just you need to look at your state specific statutes. You need to look at your situation.
[22:45.000 --> 22:51.000]  Now, I will agree. Quiet title is a great action when used properly.
[22:51.000 --> 22:58.000]  But it's a misnomer to think if I file a quiet title, that's all I need to do.
[22:58.000 --> 23:06.000]  And I can do it any time. And I've seen numerous complaints out there.
[23:06.000 --> 23:10.000]  I just saw one two days ago when it was about 10 pages long.
[23:10.000 --> 23:16.000]  They had 17 causes of action within their quiet title complaint.
[23:16.000 --> 23:23.000]  That's a lot crammed into 10 pages. Each one was one line.
[23:23.000 --> 23:27.000]  Sweet. Keep it simple. But there was nothing after it.
[23:27.000 --> 23:35.000]  Oh, that claims were made. There was nothing to back it. There was no substance.
[23:35.000 --> 23:44.000]  A claim was stated. Well, if you're going to state a claim upon what statute are you going to base your claim?
[23:44.000 --> 23:55.000]  Right. And what opinions from either Appellate Court or Supreme Court decisions do you have to back up your claim?
[23:55.000 --> 24:03.000]  Right. But even if you don't cite citations and you're just going to cite statutes, so you're going to plead facts and we're going to code, plead it with.
[24:03.000 --> 24:07.000]  All right. That means you're going to meet every element in that statute.
[24:07.000 --> 24:14.000]  So the problem is very seldom is this done correctly, whether it's even attorneys.
[24:14.000 --> 24:21.000]  I've looked at plenty with attorneys and allegations are made.
[24:21.000 --> 24:28.000]  The servicer did this. The bank did this. Well, what law says they can't do that? Exactly.
[24:28.000 --> 24:33.000]  How did they do it? When did they do it? Where did they do it?
[24:33.000 --> 24:43.000]  How am I damaged? Where did it happen? How did it happen? What statute did they break?
[24:43.000 --> 24:52.000]  Well, there's a mechanical means of challenging something when accused, and it's called demurrer.
[24:52.000 --> 24:58.000]  Some states allow demurrers. Some states do not allow demurrers, but in states that do allow demurrers,
[24:58.000 --> 25:05.000]  you could very well be stating a claim and then they can come in and demurr by saying, well, yeah, we did that.
[25:05.000 --> 25:17.000]  But according to this law, we're allowed to do that. That's why it's so important for us to when we draft our pleadings that we look at the statute,
[25:17.000 --> 25:24.000]  look at the infraction against the statute and plead out every element. How did they do this? How did they do that?
[25:24.000 --> 25:38.000]  Correct. Now, go back to a Lankt Bell versus Trombley. While they say the whole purpose of the 12b6 rule was to rule out frivolous pleadings.
[25:38.000 --> 25:50.000]  So while the homeowners are to be held to a lesser standard, actuality is that they're held to a higher standard
[25:50.000 --> 26:00.000]  because the courts do not want all of these frivolous filings being put into the courts and then taking the time to go to trial.
[26:00.000 --> 26:06.000]  It's a waste of the court's time. So what they can do is that's with the rule 12 is for dismissals.
[26:06.000 --> 26:12.000]  Rule 12b6 is failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.
[26:12.000 --> 26:28.000]  And that is done time and time again. If you do not state and if you're not specific, if it is not pled correctly, you know, oh, I found there was fraud on my documents.
[26:28.000 --> 26:30.000]  Prove it.
[26:30.000 --> 26:33.000]  Yes. All the elements of fraud.
[26:33.000 --> 26:43.000]  And with fraud, I use that term or that word with great reservation because fraud is what we the people see as fraud.
[26:43.000 --> 26:51.000]  The courts may not. In many states, California, I think, has nine elements. There are.
[26:51.000 --> 26:59.000]  Actually, we have nine in Texas, even though they say you need to prove five. I know if you're going to go criminally.
[26:59.000 --> 27:01.000]  You got to prove them all.
[27:01.000 --> 27:06.000]  And there must be with absolute.
[27:06.000 --> 27:08.000]  I mean, you cannot waiver.
[27:08.000 --> 27:09.000]  Right.
[27:09.000 --> 27:15.000]  Because they're waiting. They're going to beat us on procedure.
[27:15.000 --> 27:16.000]  Yes.
[27:16.000 --> 27:18.000]  That is where we're getting our butts kicked.
[27:18.000 --> 27:22.000]  That's why I take an attorney into court with me.
[27:22.000 --> 27:31.000]  I told my attorney once, I said, I can dance circles around you when it comes to the law. And he said, I agree, but I can dance circles around you when it comes to procedure.
[27:31.000 --> 27:33.000]  I said, that's why I need you in court.
[27:33.000 --> 27:38.000]  Exactly. And many people don't realize you need a mouthpiece.
[27:38.000 --> 27:41.000]  And that's what the attorney does better than anything.
[27:41.000 --> 27:42.000]  I agree.
[27:42.000 --> 27:43.000]  All right.
[27:43.000 --> 27:45.000]  They know when to object.
[27:45.000 --> 27:49.000]  And if they don't know, you can whisper in their ear.
[27:49.000 --> 28:00.000]  But they're going to look as a difference being an NBA player or somebody from one of the lower teams.
[28:00.000 --> 28:01.000]  All right.
[28:01.000 --> 28:04.000]  You know, it's like playing varsity.
[28:04.000 --> 28:05.000]  That's it.
[28:05.000 --> 28:08.000]  You may have all the moves, but you haven't earned your stripes yet.
[28:08.000 --> 28:10.000]  There you go.
[28:10.000 --> 28:17.000]  And again, I see this in the biggest thing that I've been talking to people for the last couple of weeks have been timeliness.
[28:17.000 --> 28:20.000]  Is this done in a timely fashion?
[28:20.000 --> 28:27.000]  If you're in a judicial state, and if you served a complaint and summons, reply.
[28:27.000 --> 28:31.000]  And reply in a timely fashion.
[28:31.000 --> 28:38.000]  Because the banks or the plaintiff that is coming against you, he's hoping that you don't know what you're doing.
[28:38.000 --> 28:39.000]  He's counting on it.
[28:39.000 --> 28:41.000]  He's counting on it.
[28:41.000 --> 28:44.000]  And even if you have an attorney.
[28:44.000 --> 28:47.000]  If that attorney forgets, if he's got a ton of cases.
[28:47.000 --> 28:50.000]  Well, I was going to say that shoe fits both feet.
[28:50.000 --> 28:54.000]  I've been in this house for five years now after foreclosure.
[28:54.000 --> 28:55.000]  Why do you think that is?
[28:55.000 --> 28:59.000]  Because the foreclosure mill attorney doesn't know the law like I do.
[28:59.000 --> 29:07.000]  He has, they have mishandled this thing from the word go.
[29:07.000 --> 29:08.000]  And that's why.
[29:08.000 --> 29:11.000]  That's where I take advantage of what they've done wrong.
[29:11.000 --> 29:12.000]  Correct.
[29:12.000 --> 29:17.000]  And that's why the best thing we can do is to educate the public.
[29:17.000 --> 29:23.000]  And then once we get them educated, we need to turn them around and give them a big push.
[29:23.000 --> 29:30.000]  Because if you don't take action, Steve, if nothing changes, nothing changes.
[29:30.000 --> 29:31.000]  There you go.
[29:31.000 --> 29:38.000]  One thing, you know, I've been in the foreclosure defense industry as a professional for quite a while.
[29:38.000 --> 29:41.000]  And when people ask me, well, what guarantee do you give me?
[29:41.000 --> 29:45.000]  I guarantee you if you don't do something, you're going to lose your house.
[29:45.000 --> 29:47.000]  I hear the music in the background, folks.
[29:47.000 --> 29:53.000]  512-646-1984 is the number to dial if you'd like to join in.
[29:53.000 --> 29:57.000]  And we will be taking calls on the other side of this break, so stay tuned.
[29:57.000 --> 30:02.000]  We'll be right back.
[30:02.000 --> 30:07.000]  A lot of teachers and students rely on laptops and iPads for education.
[30:07.000 --> 30:12.000]  A grad school in Silicon Valley has gone retro and banned computers.
[30:12.000 --> 30:18.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll be back to tell you about the grade school that says computers don't compute.
[30:18.000 --> 30:20.000]  Privacy is under attack.
[30:20.000 --> 30:23.000]  When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[30:23.000 --> 30:28.000]  And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish, too.
[30:28.000 --> 30:30.000]  So protect your rights.
[30:30.000 --> 30:34.000]  Say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[30:34.000 --> 30:36.000]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
[30:36.000 --> 30:43.000]  This message is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing.
[30:43.000 --> 30:46.000]  Start over with StartPage.
[30:46.000 --> 30:51.000]  Schools spend a fortune on classroom computers to train kids for the future.
[30:51.000 --> 30:55.000]  But in the heart of Silicon Valley, one private school has gone the other way,
[30:55.000 --> 30:59.000]  banning computers and even discouraging kids from using them at home.
[30:59.000 --> 31:05.000]  The Waldorf School has a unique philosophy focused on imagination and hands-on activities.
[31:05.000 --> 31:12.000]  Their teaching tools include low-tech pencils and paper, blackboards and chalk, knitting needles, and sometimes even mud.
[31:12.000 --> 31:18.000]  Three-quarters of the school's parents work for technology giants like Apple, Google, and Yahoo.
[31:18.000 --> 31:24.000]  While they're making technology for the rest of us, they're sending their own kids to greener pastures.
[31:24.000 --> 31:31.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[31:31.000 --> 31:37.000]  This is Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11.
[31:37.000 --> 31:39.000]  The government says that fire brought it down.
[31:39.000 --> 31:44.000]  However, 1,500 architects and engineers concluded it was a controlled demolition.
[31:44.000 --> 31:47.000]  Over 6,000 of my fellow service members have given their lives.
[31:47.000 --> 31:49.000]  Thousands of my fellow force responders are dying.
[31:49.000 --> 31:51.000]  I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
[31:51.000 --> 31:52.000]  I'm a structural engineer.
[31:52.000 --> 31:53.000]  I'm a New York City correction officer.
[31:53.000 --> 31:54.000]  I'm an Air Force pilot.
[31:54.000 --> 31:56.000]  I'm a father who lost his son.
[31:56.000 --> 31:58.000]  We're Americans, and we deserve the truth.
[31:58.000 --> 32:01.000]  Go to RememberBuilding7.org today.
[32:28.000 --> 32:32.000]  In conjunction with Rule of Law Radio has put together the most comprehensive teaching tool available
[32:32.000 --> 32:36.000]  that will help you understand what due process is and how to hold courts to the rule of law.
[32:36.000 --> 32:40.000]  You can get your own copy of this invaluable material by going to RuleOfLawRadio.com
[32:40.000 --> 32:42.000]  and ordering your copy today.
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[33:26.000 --> 33:27.000]  Okay.
[33:30.000 --> 33:31.000]  Who's that?
[33:33.000 --> 33:36.000]  Texas is a race for Mr. Bush.
[33:38.000 --> 33:41.000]  Texas is a race for Dick Cheney.
[33:42.000 --> 33:45.000]  Well, I need a prosecutor to come and help me
[33:45.000 --> 33:47.000]  prosecute them wicked leaders.
[33:47.000 --> 33:49.000]  You see, the Mamorias are liars.
[33:49.000 --> 33:51.000]  They tell me they are liars.
[33:51.000 --> 33:52.000]  They tell sick stories.
[33:52.000 --> 33:55.000]  They don't believe me, say what them tell me.
[33:56.000 --> 33:58.000]  And we're back from break, folks.
[33:58.000 --> 34:01.000]  Thank you for tuning in to RuleOfLawRadio tonight.
[34:01.000 --> 34:06.000]  I promised that we would go to the phones after this break, so let's do that.
[34:06.000 --> 34:08.000]  We've got Johnny in Texas.
[34:08.000 --> 34:09.000]  Hello, Johnny.
[34:09.000 --> 34:11.000]  What's on your mind tonight?
[34:13.000 --> 34:15.000]  Hello, Johnny.
[34:15.000 --> 34:17.000]  Oh, can you hear me?
[34:17.000 --> 34:18.000]  Can now.
[34:18.000 --> 34:20.000]  Oh, I know this, Johnny.
[34:20.000 --> 34:25.000]  Hey, you sent me something earlier, and I probably should keep this for off air,
[34:25.000 --> 34:27.000]  but I like your taste in music.
[34:27.000 --> 34:28.000]  That way.
[34:28.000 --> 34:31.000]  But I'm sure that's not why you called tonight.
[34:31.000 --> 34:32.000]  What you got?
[34:32.000 --> 34:37.000]  Well, I just wanted to call and expand a little bit on what you guys are talking about
[34:37.000 --> 34:43.000]  with the quiet title suits, the different types of them, and the elements of them.
[34:43.000 --> 34:51.000]  And the reason I do that is because I see people filing suits that, in the title,
[34:51.000 --> 34:57.000]  they say quiet title suits, but that's pretty much it.
[34:57.000 --> 35:01.000]  Nothing about it is actually, they don't fact plead and don't code plead the elements of it.
[35:01.000 --> 35:07.000]  And just calling it, just labeling it a quiet title suit does not make it so.
[35:07.000 --> 35:09.000]  I agree.
[35:09.000 --> 35:14.000]  Yeah, and a lot of times when you file any kind of quiet title suit,
[35:14.000 --> 35:20.000]  opposing counsel will argue that you're not arguing the superiority of your title,
[35:20.000 --> 35:23.000]  which I heard you guys touch on a little bit earlier.
[35:23.000 --> 35:30.000]  Basically, when you're talking about a quiet title suit, the courts and attorneys
[35:30.000 --> 35:36.000]  and practitioners, they often use the term quiet title or action to quiet title
[35:36.000 --> 35:40.000]  or suit to remove a cloud.
[35:40.000 --> 35:44.000]  It's kind of generally referring to any suit that would have the result
[35:44.000 --> 35:47.000]  of removing a cloud from title.
[35:47.000 --> 35:51.000]  But there are some very specific types and different requirements,
[35:51.000 --> 35:54.000]  different pleading requirements, different elements.
[35:54.000 --> 36:03.000]  For example, a trespass to try title suit, that is a purely statutory suit.
[36:03.000 --> 36:08.000]  And it's basically comprised of a suit for title and possession of land
[36:08.000 --> 36:11.000]  by a party claiming the legal or equitable title
[36:11.000 --> 36:16.000]  against another party who is asserting a conflicting possessory right.
[36:16.000 --> 36:19.000]  And in a trespass to try title suit,
[36:19.000 --> 36:22.000]  the plaintiff has to claim an ownership interest in the property,
[36:22.000 --> 36:29.000]  and he can only prevail by establishing that his interest is valid and superior.
[36:29.000 --> 36:34.000]  As I said, it's a statutory suit.
[36:34.000 --> 36:42.000]  It comes from section 22.001 through 22.004, Texas Property Codes.
[36:42.000 --> 36:47.000]  Martin B. Hammerman is a good case to look at regarding what you have to
[36:47.000 --> 36:51.000]  please improve in a trespass.
[36:51.000 --> 36:59.000]  We lost him.
[36:59.000 --> 37:01.000]  I think we lost him.
[37:01.000 --> 37:04.000]  Can I step in on this for a second?
[37:04.000 --> 37:06.000]  Sure.
[37:06.000 --> 37:10.000]  So people understand what a trespass to try title suit is.
[37:10.000 --> 37:14.000]  You got a piece of property, and when you purchased the property,
[37:14.000 --> 37:17.000]  you were granted a warranty deed.
[37:17.000 --> 37:21.000]  That warranty deed rests in the record uncontested,
[37:21.000 --> 37:25.000]  showing you as the uncontested owner of the property.
[37:25.000 --> 37:27.000]  Then the property is foreclosed on,
[37:27.000 --> 37:32.000]  and a substitute trustee files a substitute trustee's deed,
[37:32.000 --> 37:36.000]  and that purports to assign the property to somebody else.
[37:36.000 --> 37:39.000]  Then you come back and say, hold on.
[37:39.000 --> 37:46.000]  My warranty deed is more valid than your substitute trustee's deed is.
[37:46.000 --> 37:52.000]  That's where you have two people claiming ownership of the property,
[37:52.000 --> 37:56.000]  and you have to show that your claim is stronger than the substitute trustee's
[37:56.000 --> 37:58.000]  deed's claim.
[37:58.000 --> 38:01.000]  Does that sound right, Steve?
[38:01.000 --> 38:04.000]  To a degree.
[38:04.000 --> 38:07.000]  Oh dear, we lost Johnny altogether.
[38:07.000 --> 38:09.000]  No, he's back on the board.
[38:09.000 --> 38:11.000]  Well, okay.
[38:11.000 --> 38:14.000]  Let me refresh my page.
[38:14.000 --> 38:17.000]  Yeah, okay, there's Johnny there.
[38:17.000 --> 38:19.000]  Johnny, are you with us again?
[38:19.000 --> 38:20.000]  Yeah, I never dropped off.
[38:20.000 --> 38:21.000]  I don't know what happened.
[38:21.000 --> 38:24.000]  You guys just stopped hearing me for a minute.
[38:24.000 --> 38:27.000]  It looked like, well, you changed positions.
[38:27.000 --> 38:31.000]  You switched pole position there, so something did happen.
[38:31.000 --> 38:37.000]  Anyway, did you hear Randy's dissertation?
[38:37.000 --> 38:42.000]  No, I heard the first couple sentences of it, and then it just...
[38:42.000 --> 38:44.000]  Go back over there, Randy.
[38:44.000 --> 38:49.000]  Okay, an example so it makes sense what Johnny was talking about.
[38:49.000 --> 38:53.000]  You have a warranty deed in the record, so you purchased the property.
[38:53.000 --> 38:55.000]  They granted you a warranty deed.
[38:55.000 --> 39:00.000]  Then somebody comes along and does a foreclosure, and the substitute trustee
[39:00.000 --> 39:04.000]  files into the record a substitute trustee's deed.
[39:04.000 --> 39:10.000]  Now, they claim ownership, and then you file a trespass to try title and say,
[39:10.000 --> 39:16.000]  these guys who filed the substitute trustee's deed are trespassing on my title.
[39:16.000 --> 39:22.000]  My claim to title is greater than their claim because their claim is faulty.
[39:22.000 --> 39:30.000]  Prior to that, say they file some document in the record that makes a claim against
[39:30.000 --> 39:35.000]  your property, like an assignment of substitute trustee or an...
[39:35.000 --> 39:40.000]  I'm sorry, an appointment of substitute trustee or an assignment of the security
[39:40.000 --> 39:43.000]  instrument, and you say, wait a minute.
[39:43.000 --> 39:50.000]  That document is insufficient to meet the filing requirements of the state.
[39:50.000 --> 39:52.000]  That would go to quiet title.
[39:52.000 --> 39:55.000]  You'd quiet title or slander of title.
[39:55.000 --> 40:03.000]  You would file a quiet title action to quiet the title as concerns that document.
[40:03.000 --> 40:11.000]  But if you file a quiet title, don't make any claims of harm of any kind or they'll
[40:11.000 --> 40:12.000]  screw you.
[40:12.000 --> 40:16.000]  Quiet title in that regard is an injunctive suit.
[40:16.000 --> 40:18.000]  You ask, you merely...
[40:18.000 --> 40:19.000]  I'm sorry, not injunctive.
[40:19.000 --> 40:20.000]  It's declaratory judging.
[40:20.000 --> 40:22.000]  It's declaratory, yeah.
[40:22.000 --> 40:27.000]  You merely ask the judge to look at the four corners of this document and say,
[40:27.000 --> 40:35.000]  based on what is filed in the record and what you can see in this document, this
[40:35.000 --> 40:39.000]  document does not meet the statutory filing requirements.
[40:39.000 --> 40:41.000]  It's a real simple claim.
[40:41.000 --> 40:44.000]  This is what Joe was talking about beforehand.
[40:44.000 --> 40:48.000]  Don't go in and try to win the whole Lancelotta.
[40:48.000 --> 40:51.000]  Go in there and build your case first.
[40:51.000 --> 40:56.000]  Don't ask the judge to rule on a whole bunch of stuff.
[40:56.000 --> 40:59.000]  Go in there and say, this document, look at this document, judge.
[40:59.000 --> 41:03.000]  It was filed by JP Morgan Chase.
[41:03.000 --> 41:07.000]  They're claiming to be the successor to Washington Mutual.
[41:07.000 --> 41:12.000]  Washington Mutual never filed an assignment from Washington Mutual to JP Morgan
[41:12.000 --> 41:13.000]  Chase.
[41:13.000 --> 41:21.000]  So according to 13.01, the 13.001, Texas Property Code,
[41:21.000 --> 41:29.000]  statutorily JP Morgan Chase cannot make a claim against the title.
[41:29.000 --> 41:32.000]  You do that before a foreclosure.
[41:32.000 --> 41:35.000]  That would be on the quiet title side.
[41:35.000 --> 41:38.000]  You're quieting the title as concerns his claim.
[41:38.000 --> 41:44.000]  After foreclosure, where someone is claiming your property, or even if
[41:44.000 --> 41:49.000]  someone's in your property by adverse possession, and they make an adverse
[41:49.000 --> 41:52.000]  possession claim to your property, you would do that by trespassing the
[41:52.000 --> 41:53.000]  title.
[41:53.000 --> 41:58.000]  Does that suit with your research, John?
[41:58.000 --> 42:00.000]  Somewhat.
[42:00.000 --> 42:04.000]  I've never been able to find the authority that says that if it is
[42:04.000 --> 42:08.000]  preforeclosure, it's a quiet title action, and if it's postforeclosure,
[42:08.000 --> 42:10.000]  it's a trespassing the title.
[42:10.000 --> 42:12.000]  No, it doesn't say it that way.
[42:12.000 --> 42:15.000]  It's the nature of the claim.
[42:15.000 --> 42:22.000]  The nature of the claim would be on the order of an adverse possession
[42:22.000 --> 42:23.000]  claim.
[42:23.000 --> 42:27.000]  Someone is claiming a right to your property.
[42:27.000 --> 42:30.000]  Yeah, you have to...
[42:30.000 --> 42:34.000]  That would go to trespass.
[42:34.000 --> 42:40.000]  If someone is merely making a claim of a lien against your property, where
[42:40.000 --> 42:44.000]  they're not claiming possession of your property, that would go to the quiet
[42:44.000 --> 42:48.000]  title side.
[42:48.000 --> 42:55.000]  Well, from what I've found in my research is in a trespass to try title
[42:55.000 --> 43:01.000]  action, which is governed under Texas Property Code 22 and Texas Rules of
[43:01.000 --> 43:08.000]  Civil Procedure 783 through 809, it's when two parties have a conflicting
[43:08.000 --> 43:14.000]  claim to possessory rights, you would bring a trespass to try title, and you
[43:14.000 --> 43:18.000]  have to plead certain elements that are laid out in the Rules of Procedure
[43:18.000 --> 43:22.000]  and in the Property Code, and both parties have to trace their title back
[43:22.000 --> 43:28.000]  to a common source, and the petitioner must rely on the strength of his own
[43:28.000 --> 43:33.000]  title and not the weakness of a petitioner's title that's pursuant to
[43:33.000 --> 43:38.000]  Barton B. Ammerman, Landy Turner, Hale D. Worth.
[43:38.000 --> 43:40.000]  You don't quite hear the music there.
[43:40.000 --> 43:42.000]  Yep, we got music in the background.
[43:42.000 --> 43:47.000]  512-646-1984 is the number to dial, folks, if you'd like to join in
[43:47.000 --> 43:49.000]  conversation.
[43:49.000 --> 43:51.000]  Go ahead and call in, get in.
[43:51.000 --> 43:56.000]  Johnny, we'll be right back with some more of your research right on the
[43:56.000 --> 43:57.000]  other side of this break.
[43:57.000 --> 44:02.000]  Stay tuned.
[44:02.000 --> 44:06.000]  Hello, my name is Stuart Smith from naturespureorganics.com, and I would
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[44:37.000 --> 44:43.000]  That's 512-264-4043, naturespureorganics.com.
[44:43.000 --> 44:46.000]  Don't forget to like us on Facebook for information on events and our
[44:46.000 --> 45:01.000]  products, naturespureorganics.com.
[45:01.000 --> 45:04.000]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[46:01.000 --> 46:26.000]  Thank you.
[46:26.000 --> 46:47.000]  And welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[46:47.000 --> 46:53.000]  512-646-1984 is the number you can dial to get a joint conversation.
[46:53.000 --> 46:58.000]  And when we went out to break, we were still talking with Johnny in Texas.
[46:58.000 --> 47:07.000]  Johnny, do you have all of the elements pertaining to, and I hear you keep
[47:07.000 --> 47:09.000]  repeating Texas Code.
[47:09.000 --> 47:13.000]  I know that you are in Texas and the body of your research is in Texas Code,
[47:13.000 --> 47:19.000]  but let me tell folks that Trespass to Try Title, Quiet Title, Slander on
[47:19.000 --> 47:22.000]  Title is available in all states.
[47:22.000 --> 47:23.000]  And federal.
[47:23.000 --> 47:24.000]  And federal.
[47:24.000 --> 47:25.000]  Hold on.
[47:25.000 --> 47:26.000]  Hold on.
[47:26.000 --> 47:27.000]  No, no, no.
[47:27.000 --> 47:28.000]  Oh.
[47:28.000 --> 47:31.000]  Trespass to Try Title is peculiar to Texas.
[47:31.000 --> 47:32.000]  Okay.
[47:32.000 --> 47:36.000]  It's actually, you have the same avenue.
[47:36.000 --> 47:42.000]  Just in Texas, they have a special name for this particular one.
[47:42.000 --> 47:47.000]  And the peculiar thing about Trespass to Try Title, which makes it kind of
[47:47.000 --> 47:52.000]  cool, is there are no attorney fees authorized.
[47:52.000 --> 47:58.000]  Everywhere else, for the most part, what I've seen, they kind of lump it all
[47:58.000 --> 48:04.000]  into a Quiet Title action or a Slander of Title action.
[48:04.000 --> 48:11.000]  In either case, whatever they call it, it is a petition for declaratory
[48:11.000 --> 48:13.000]  judgment.
[48:13.000 --> 48:14.000]  Okay.
[48:14.000 --> 48:18.000]  It's important you understand declaratory.
[48:18.000 --> 48:23.000]  Do not ask for any harm, any damages.
[48:23.000 --> 48:24.000]  Yeah.
[48:24.000 --> 48:31.000]  If you're asking for recovery of damages, you're asking to be made whole.
[48:31.000 --> 48:36.000]  If you're asking to be made whole in a Quiet Title action, you need to be filing
[48:36.000 --> 48:39.000]  some other type of action because it's no longer Quiet Title.
[48:39.000 --> 48:40.000]  Exactly.
[48:40.000 --> 48:44.000]  If you do that, you're moving your bishop out before you move the pawn out of
[48:44.000 --> 48:45.000]  the way.
[48:45.000 --> 48:46.000]  There you go.
[48:46.000 --> 48:47.000]  Correct.
[48:47.000 --> 48:53.000]  The pawn move is to sneak in there with a declaratory judgment and tell the
[48:53.000 --> 48:59.000]  judge, you know, I'm not claiming these people don't have a claim.
[48:59.000 --> 49:01.000]  They may have a claim, they may not.
[49:01.000 --> 49:05.000]  But this document, this particular piece of paper that they filed in the
[49:05.000 --> 49:11.000]  record, they didn't meet the statutory filing requirements.
[49:11.000 --> 49:17.000]  And we're going to ask you to rule in the interest of maintaining the
[49:17.000 --> 49:25.000]  integrity of the court record that this document is insufficient.
[49:25.000 --> 49:28.000]  Now, they can come back and file it again if they want to.
[49:28.000 --> 49:31.000]  Maybe.
[49:31.000 --> 49:38.000]  Focus your question real tight so it's real easy for the judge to give you
[49:38.000 --> 49:39.000]  your ruling.
[49:39.000 --> 49:44.000]  If this is an appointment of substitute trustee, and the trustee's already
[49:44.000 --> 49:49.000]  done a foreclosure, and you get the judge to say, yeah, you're right.
[49:49.000 --> 49:53.000]  This guy who appointed the substitute trustee, he was never properly
[49:53.000 --> 49:54.000]  appointed.
[49:54.000 --> 49:57.000]  And they say, yeah, you're right, this appointment is void.
[49:57.000 --> 50:04.000]  Then your suit for damages is res judicata.
[50:04.000 --> 50:11.000]  Already been ruled on, then you sue for damages, and your damages court
[50:11.000 --> 50:17.000]  looks back at the quiet title court, and that determination's been made
[50:17.000 --> 50:18.000]  already.
[50:18.000 --> 50:21.000]  This court can't revisit it.
[50:21.000 --> 50:27.000]  So it's already collateral estoppel.
[50:27.000 --> 50:29.000]  It's already res judicata.
[50:29.000 --> 50:32.000]  It's already been determined that they didn't have the authority to do
[50:32.000 --> 50:33.000]  this.
[50:33.000 --> 50:36.000]  So long for foreclosure is simply a matter of law.
[50:36.000 --> 50:37.000]  Okay.
[50:37.000 --> 50:41.000]  But that was the whole point in going for declaratory relief first.
[50:41.000 --> 50:43.000]  Yeah, that's what I started to say.
[50:43.000 --> 50:46.000]  That's pretty much where you're going, as I understand, Joe.
[50:46.000 --> 50:47.000]  Yeah.
[50:47.000 --> 50:50.000]  Johnny, do you got anything else to add?
[50:50.000 --> 50:55.000]  Yeah, Johnny, I wanted to ask you specifically, since you'd raised what
[50:55.000 --> 51:00.000]  appears to be peculiar to Texas, a trespass to try title, do you have for
[51:00.000 --> 51:04.000]  our Texas listeners in front of you all of the elements that must be pled
[51:04.000 --> 51:08.000]  in a trespass to try title suit?
[51:08.000 --> 51:14.000]  You have to plead that you have a specific interest in the property.
[51:14.000 --> 51:18.000]  You have to pledge right title or ownership, either in yourself or, you
[51:18.000 --> 51:23.000]  know, well, in yourself with sufficient certainty to enable the court to see
[51:23.000 --> 51:27.000]  that you have at least some kind of right of ownership that will warrant
[51:27.000 --> 51:30.000]  judicial interference.
[51:30.000 --> 51:36.000]  You have to plead that the title to the property is affected by a claim by
[51:36.000 --> 51:41.000]  the defendant and that the cloud, although facially valid, is invalid or
[51:41.000 --> 51:46.000]  unenforceable, and you have to show that your competing claim, when traced
[51:46.000 --> 51:52.000]  all the way back to a common source, is stronger than the defendant.
[51:52.000 --> 51:54.000]  Okay.
[51:54.000 --> 51:56.000]  Yeah.
[51:56.000 --> 52:01.000]  So, and I would add, as to what Randy just said, when you're asking for a
[52:01.000 --> 52:07.000]  ruling in a client title action that a document is invalid, do not use the
[52:07.000 --> 52:12.000]  51.903C government code definition of fraudulent to do that.
[52:12.000 --> 52:17.000]  I've seen some people try to do that, and that is absolutely not going to fly.
[52:17.000 --> 52:21.000]  So that's the only thing I would add there.
[52:21.000 --> 52:22.000]  Okay.
[52:22.000 --> 52:26.000]  So you're going to claim that it is a nullity or are you going to claim that
[52:26.000 --> 52:29.000]  it is void?
[52:29.000 --> 52:34.000]  Yeah, and, you know, one or the other, and also, too, you just said, Joe,
[52:34.000 --> 52:38.000]  particularly if it's an assignment, you want to be very careful about
[52:38.000 --> 52:42.000]  challenging the assignment.
[52:42.000 --> 52:46.000]  The courts have ruled that borrowers generally don't have standing to
[52:46.000 --> 52:52.000]  challenge assignments unless they are going to be voidness of an assignment.
[52:52.000 --> 52:58.000]  If you're attacking an assignment and you are making arguments that would go
[52:58.000 --> 53:05.000]  to voidability of the assignment, they're not going to hear you.
[53:05.000 --> 53:07.000]  You can't prove that it's voidable.
[53:07.000 --> 53:10.000]  You have to show that it is void.
[53:10.000 --> 53:11.000]  Right.
[53:11.000 --> 53:16.000]  And there is a case that came out a while back, and that was Casa J versus
[53:16.000 --> 53:24.000]  Merz, and within that case, the courts ruled that the homeowner did have
[53:24.000 --> 53:30.000]  standing to argue the validity of the assignment.
[53:30.000 --> 53:42.000]  And it used Calhoun, and it also used Woods cases to back up that they were
[53:42.000 --> 53:48.000]  saying that the whole purpose of the homeowner claiming standing to argue
[53:48.000 --> 53:55.000]  that they were a party was that they would be damaged if this assignment was
[53:55.000 --> 54:00.000]  to be allowed to be an assignment, and this would be an issue that would have
[54:00.000 --> 54:03.000]  to be readdressed at a later date.
[54:03.000 --> 54:06.000]  So the court said, well, you know what, you're correct.
[54:06.000 --> 54:08.000]  You do have standing.
[54:08.000 --> 54:09.000]  There's an attorney here in Texas.
[54:09.000 --> 54:10.000]  His name is Jeff Kelly.
[54:10.000 --> 54:16.000]  He actually set precedents in Houston court in the case of Miller v.
[54:16.000 --> 54:18.000]  Homecomings.
[54:18.000 --> 54:24.000]  A lot of people were trying to challenge assignments and conveyances, and
[54:24.000 --> 54:30.000]  Jeff Kelly actually went in and very masterfully put his arguments on the
[54:30.000 --> 54:32.000]  table and won that case.
[54:32.000 --> 54:39.000]  So there are some precedents has been set, at least here in Texas and in some
[54:39.000 --> 54:46.000]  of the federal courts, in where you can challenge title, but I believe you're
[54:46.000 --> 54:51.000]  correct on that, Johnny, that you can't just come in and say, hey, this is an
[54:51.000 --> 54:55.000]  improper party, you've got to show that the instrument is void.
[54:55.000 --> 54:56.000]  Right.
[54:56.000 --> 55:01.000]  You're going to have to go to ask, what is an assignment?
[55:01.000 --> 55:03.000]  What is the purpose of an assignment?
[55:03.000 --> 55:05.000]  Again, we go back to the elements.
[55:05.000 --> 55:08.000]  This all comes back to elementary fleeting.
[55:08.000 --> 55:09.000]  Correct.
[55:09.000 --> 55:14.000]  So, you know, the purpose of an assignment is to memorialize the sale of the
[55:14.000 --> 55:16.000]  tangible promissory note.
[55:16.000 --> 55:19.000]  It does not cause the sale.
[55:19.000 --> 55:21.000]  Correct.
[55:21.000 --> 55:26.000]  And if you go to Romero versus Bank of America, which came out last couple
[55:26.000 --> 55:31.000]  weeks ago, all right, they went through and they destroyed MERS.
[55:31.000 --> 55:36.000]  One can only assign the rights which they have been given.
[55:36.000 --> 55:39.000]  If you have not acquired any rights, you cannot assign any rights.
[55:39.000 --> 55:42.000]  This goes back to Nemo Dat Quod Non Habet.
[55:42.000 --> 55:44.000]  No man gives what he does not have.
[55:44.000 --> 55:47.000]  Right, maximum of law.
[55:47.000 --> 55:49.000]  So, you're correct.
[55:49.000 --> 55:54.000]  Now, that was Bank of America v. Romero in the Supreme Court of the United
[55:54.000 --> 55:57.000]  States of New Mexico.
[55:57.000 --> 56:00.000]  And it was also...
[56:00.000 --> 56:03.000]  I'm sorry, the Supreme Court of the State of New Mexico.
[56:03.000 --> 56:04.000]  Right.
[56:04.000 --> 56:08.000]  That was a state Supreme Court case.
[56:08.000 --> 56:13.000]  And the other case was Casagy versus Moritz Electronic Registration Systems.
[56:13.000 --> 56:18.000]  And that was from District Court in Rhode Island.
[56:18.000 --> 56:23.000]  Case number 10-442-M.
[56:23.000 --> 56:24.000]  Very good.
[56:24.000 --> 56:26.000]  Again, these are very important cases.
[56:26.000 --> 56:31.000]  And if you go into what the courts are saying, they're starting to back up what
[56:31.000 --> 56:34.000]  we've been saying for a while.
[56:34.000 --> 56:38.000]  You do have standing, if properly pled.
[56:38.000 --> 56:43.000]  If giving the correct arguments.
[56:43.000 --> 56:54.000]  I am sure, again, the judges want to give a true and accurate order.
[56:54.000 --> 56:56.000]  But they can only base their orders.
[56:56.000 --> 57:00.000]  They can only base their findings on the arguments that are given to them in
[57:00.000 --> 57:05.000]  court, both orally and within the pleadings.
[57:05.000 --> 57:12.000]  And, Steve, how many pleadings have you seen where they've just been ripped apart?
[57:12.000 --> 57:13.000]  Most of them.
[57:13.000 --> 57:17.000]  If you don't ask the right question...
[57:17.000 --> 57:18.000]  Correct.
[57:18.000 --> 57:22.000]  You're not going to get the right answer.
[57:22.000 --> 57:29.000]  When I look at the Deed of Trust in Texas, the Deed of Trust calls Merge the
[57:29.000 --> 57:35.000]  mortgagee, but that's in the definition section.
[57:35.000 --> 57:43.000]  It defines Merge as the nominee for the lenders and lenders' successors and
[57:43.000 --> 57:49.000]  assigns, and then it says Merge is the mortgagee.
[57:49.000 --> 57:55.000]  Well, mortgagee in this context cannot mean what we normally mean by the term
[57:55.000 --> 57:57.000]  mortgagee.
[57:57.000 --> 58:03.000]  It's clear by the definition that mortgagee in this instance means agent for
[58:03.000 --> 58:06.000]  the holder of the beneficial interest.
[58:06.000 --> 58:12.000]  Not the holder himself, but agent for the holder.
[58:12.000 --> 58:15.000]  Johnny, did you have any more questions or comments?
[58:15.000 --> 58:20.000]  Yeah, I had a few more, but I've already been on for a while, so I'll let the
[58:20.000 --> 58:24.000]  other listeners get on and pose their questions.
[58:24.000 --> 58:25.000]  Okay.
[58:25.000 --> 58:26.000]  You can call back.
[58:26.000 --> 58:27.000]  We'll call back later in the show.
[58:27.000 --> 58:28.000]  We've got plenty of it left.
[58:28.000 --> 58:32.000]  We're at the top of the hour, folks, and we'll be gone for a few minutes.
[58:32.000 --> 58:34.000]  This will allow us to take a break.
[58:34.000 --> 58:40.000]  So 512-646-1984 is the number you can dial to join in conversation.
[58:40.000 --> 58:45.000]  And when we come back on the other side of the top of the hour, we'll be going
[58:45.000 --> 58:46.000]  to Susan in Florida.
[58:46.000 --> 58:48.000]  So until then, folks, stay tuned.
[58:48.000 --> 58:50.000]  We'll be right back.
[58:50.000 --> 58:54.000]  Would you like to make more definite progress in your walk with God?
[58:54.000 --> 58:59.000]  Bibles for America is offering a free study Bible and a set of free Christian
[58:59.000 --> 59:01.000]  books that can really help.
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[59:04.000 --> 59:06.000]  Bibles available today.
[59:06.000 --> 59:10.000]  It's an accurate translation, and it contains thousands of footnotes that will
[59:10.000 --> 59:13.000]  help you to know God and to know the meaning of life.
[59:13.000 --> 59:17.000]  The free books are a three-volume set called Basic Elements of the Christian
[59:17.000 --> 59:18.000]  Life.
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[59:32.000 --> 59:40.000]  Christian Life, call Bibles for America toll free at 888-551-0102.
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[59:45.000 --> 59:50.000]  Or visit us online at bfa.org.
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[01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.000]  This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist
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[01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:09.000]  Online at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:14.000]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Friday, February 28, 2014.
[01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:17.000]  Gold opened today at $1,332.
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[01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.000]  The Austin City Council voted unanimously yesterday to continue the
[01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:06.000]  fluoridation of Austin's water supply.
[01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.000]  The vote came after 45 minutes of testimony from community leaders,
[01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:12.000]  toxicology experts, and a mother who stated Austin's water gave her
[01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:16.000]  daughter dental fluorosis from her consumption of fluoridated water while
[01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:17.000]  pregnant.
[01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:20.000]  Despite the pleas to end the practice, the council passed the measure after
[01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:24.000]  a motion from Councilwoman Laura Morrison and a second from Councilwoman
[01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:27.000]  Bill Spelman.
[01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:31.000]  On Sunday, Central Texas Gun Works and Come and Take at Austin will
[01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:35.000]  celebrate Texas Independence Day with an open carry rally featuring music,
[01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:36.000]  education, and food.
[01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.000]  Participants are encouraged to bring long guns and pre-1899 black powder
[01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:41.000]  revolvers.
[01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:45.000]  Central Texas Gun Works will also be unveiling a Bitcoin ATM inside the
[01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:46.000]  gun store.
[01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:49.000]  Texas Firearms Freedom will hold a training session for those interested in
[01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:52.000]  working on constitutional carry through the state legislature.
[01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:58.000]  The event begins at 2 p.m. at CTGW off 321 West Menwhite Boulevard, Suite
[01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:02.000]  203 in Austin.
[01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.000]  A government contractor based out of Fort Worth, Texas has been awarded a
[01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.000]  $145 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to build
[01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:11.000]  security towers along the border.
[01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:15.000]  EFW will be tasked with building fixed towers capable of detecting, tracking,
[01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:20.000]  identifying, and classifying suspicious activity along the Arizona-Mexico border.
[01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.000]  EFW is expected to begin creating the towers later this year.
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[01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:56.000]  This is the Liberty Beat for Friday, February 28, 2014.
[01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:01.000]  Check out the website at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:27.000]  It's all according to the will of the Almighty. I read His book and it says,
[01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:55.000]  Welcome back to Rule the Law Radio, folks.
[01:03:55.000 --> 01:04:01.000]  512-646-1984 is the number you can dial to join in conversation.
[01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:08.000]  And I'd like to encourage everybody to go by logosradionetwork.com
[01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:13.000]  and please take advantage of all of the great offers there by,
[01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:18.000]  what's the word I'm looking for, by patronizing the advertisers.
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[01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:27.000]  by allowing the flow of information to continue to come to you.
[01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:33.000]  So, with no further ado, we're going to go to Susan in Florida.
[01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:36.000]  Good evening, Susan. What do you got for us tonight?
[01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:42.000]  Hi. I talked to Randy yesterday about an issue that I'm having.
[01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:46.000]  You poor thing.
[01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:50.000]  Well, you know, I really enjoyed what you were speaking on earlier
[01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:54.000]  about the Quiet Title issue because that's what I've been working on
[01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:56.000]  with the fraudulent foreclosure on my property.
[01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:01.000]  Well, the person that I'm considering that's actually trespassing on the property,
[01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:07.000]  he filed, I sent a letter saying that the foreclosure was fraudulent
[01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:09.000]  and that he was trespassing on the property.
[01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:14.000]  And six weeks, he failed to respond to my correspondence.
[01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:21.000]  And six weeks later, he goes to the court to get a temporary restraining order,
[01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:24.000]  which the judge granted.
[01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:29.000]  Okay. Let me pause you right there before we get too far off the cliff here.
[01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:34.000]  Did he, okay, you say you sent him a letter.
[01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:41.000]  What gave him any legal obligation to respond to your letter?
[01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:45.000]  I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
[01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.000]  What legal responsibility did he have to respond to your letter?
[01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:56.000]  Whether or not he's the lawful owner of the property.
[01:05:56.000 --> 01:06:00.000]  That's not a, what legal responsibility?
[01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.000]  I'm looking for a statute or a rule that says when you send somebody a letter,
[01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:06.000]  they must respond.
[01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:11.000]  Is there one that you know of?
[01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:18.000]  I didn't say that he, no, I guess, I'm not quite sure.
[01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:22.000]  Okay. You said you, let's recap real quick.
[01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:27.000]  You sent somebody a letter and now you're upset because they didn't respond.
[01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:29.000]  Instead, they went and got a TRO.
[01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.000]  Yes.
[01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:34.000]  Did you say anything threatening in your letter?
[01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:43.000]  No, and I don't see where, like, the thing is that he actually moved into my property.
[01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:48.000]  Well, apparently that hasn't been proven yet.
[01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:52.000]  That might be your opinion, but do you have any statute
[01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:57.000]  and opinion of appellate courts or Supreme Courts to back up your opinion?
[01:06:57.000 --> 01:07:02.000]  Okay. I had purchased the property and lived in the property
[01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:06.000]  and then he came in and changed the locks and moved into the property.
[01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:07.000]  So I'm not really...
[01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:10.000]  Okay. Was this post-foreclosure?
[01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:12.000]  You said what?
[01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:15.000]  Was it post-foreclosure when he came in and changed the locks?
[01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:20.000]  It was actually prior to him supposedly purchasing the property.
[01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:22.000]  No, no, no. It's not what I asked.
[01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:28.000]  Did, okay, I take it you'd mentioned a wrongful foreclosure.
[01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:33.000]  So you purchased the property. I take it the property was foreclosed on.
[01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:37.000]  Somebody purchased the property at foreclosure and then went and changed the locks.
[01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:39.000]  Is that accurate?
[01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:41.000]  Yes.
[01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:45.000]  Okay. So then you sent him a letter and said,
[01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:48.000]  hey, you're trespassing on my property.
[01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:54.000]  I can see your point, but from the position of a devil's advocate,
[01:07:54.000 --> 01:08:02.000]  I'm asking you what legal obligation did he have to respond to your letter?
[01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:07.000]  Certainly he feels that he possesses the property by right because he gave up money for it.
[01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:10.000]  He purchased the property.
[01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:13.000]  So now he's got somebody, he's got a former owner saying,
[01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:15.000]  you're trespassing on my property.
[01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:16.000]  Well, lady, no, I'm not.
[01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:21.000]  I bought it fair and square on the back steps of the courthouse.
[01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:32.000]  Okay. So what I'm what I'm kind of trying to very gently do is try to tell you that without going through the court system,
[01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:40.000]  I can understand why he filed his his TRO and got it.
[01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.000]  What you've got to do, you must understand.
[01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:54.000]  Excuse me. You must understand that just simply sending a letter to the new occupant of the property is insufficient as to the eyes of the law.
[01:08:54.000 --> 01:09:03.000]  You've got to go through court and prove that he purchased that property illegally or that there was no true sale of the property.
[01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:07.000]  Now, just a quick FYI, there's no true sale without a perfected lien.
[01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:13.000]  You can't perfect a lien under a clouded title and a clouded title must be proven.
[01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:18.000]  Clouded titles go to exactly the topic that we were discussing tonight.
[01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:30.000]  If there is a cloud on the on the title, you've got to go through the process of removing that cloud before that letter has any validity whatsoever.
[01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.000]  It's just a letter. It's just a letter.
[01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:36.000]  And he's got no legal obligation whatsoever to respond to your letter.
[01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:40.000]  He can take that as a threat.
[01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:49.000]  OK, so what I'm going to suggest is that if you want any validity behind the correspondence,
[01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:59.000]  if you want to place some type of obligation on him to respond to that correspondence, that's got to go through the court.
[01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:09.000]  And the way I would suggest you do that, it would be perhaps to file suit and then make these claims in discovery, not necessarily making claims in discovery,
[01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:21.000]  but ask certain questions that would either prove or disprove his disposition of ownership or his position of ownership.
[01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:33.000]  Simply sending a letter to them is it's if if I were to purchase a piece of property and I feel that that I purchased this property in a legitimate lawful manner
[01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:40.000]  and somebody that had been ousted from that property sends me a letter saying, hey, you're trespassing.
[01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:49.000]  I would take that as a threat and I would do exactly what this man did and go file for a temporary restraining order, if not a permanent injunction.
[01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:55.000]  And if I get my permanent injunction, guess who's never going to challenge the title of my property?
[01:10:55.000 --> 01:11:03.000]  Well, he actually is the one that ousted me from the property. He's the one that came in.
[01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:07.000]  By changing the locks because he feels that he has legal possession.
[01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:15.000]  Again, if you're going to make a claim in your correspondence, that correspondence should come through legal.
[01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:17.000]  The judicial system.
[01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:19.000]  Yes, through a legal venue.
[01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:26.000]  You're going to state a claim. All right. All right. You're going to have to provide a statement of claim.
[01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:36.000]  All right. In the form of a complaint, that must be simple, concise and direct, as well as positive, precise and as concise as possible.
[01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:44.000]  And the majority of the times I will concur with Steve. That is not what is done. Allegations are made.
[01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:52.000]  You made the allegation in your correspondence to the new occupant of this property that he was trespassing. Prove it.
[01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:55.000]  That's just an allegation. It's a hearsay claim.
[01:11:55.000 --> 01:12:05.000]  That's like Joe telling me, Steve, you're ugly. Well, so I don't care if I'm ugly. Show me where it's against the law for me to be ugly.
[01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:08.000]  No, no, you're supposed to say prove it.
[01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:25.000]  Yeah. Ask Randy. Ask Randy. Randy knows. But the whole point of my avenue of questioning to you, Susan, is before you start sending correspondences to new occupants,
[01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:36.000]  you've got to prove before a court of competent jurisdiction that your allegations are true, accurate, correct, factual and have legal grounds,
[01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:44.000]  have legal foundation. Simply sending this guy a letter, not going to get it.
[01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:49.000]  You need to state who, what, when, where and how.
[01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:54.000]  Exactly. OK. And if you don't, if you're missing any of that, you're going to miss it.
[01:12:54.000 --> 01:13:01.000]  And you're not going to do that in a direct correspondence to him. So I keep cutting you off and I'm sorry. Let me give you back the floor.
[01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:14.000]  It was my understanding first that before even filing a suit, that I should send him a notice, you know, to get his side of the story,
[01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:24.000]  whether or not, you know, he's the, if he believes that he's the lawful owner of the property, then, you know, that I'm more than willing to hear his response on
[01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:29.000]  whether or not he's the lawful owner of the property before I filed suit in court.
[01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:38.000]  That would be OK. In that vein, I would agree that we should leave the courts as an absolute last resort.
[01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:47.000]  We should try first amicably reaching an amicable resolution outside the court venue.
[01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:51.000]  If that doesn't work, seek some administrative remedy.
[01:13:51.000 --> 01:14:02.000]  Once you have exhausted all avenues, either either personal correspondences or through
[01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:11.000]  an exhaustive attempt to divest yourself or use all of your administrative remedies, then we go to court.
[01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:21.000]  Right. But she is she is going to have to prove that the letter receiver, the person that says they purchase the property,
[01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:28.000]  she's going to have to prove that the buyer did not buy the property under nemo dot.
[01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:34.000]  Nemo dot quote non habit. No man gives what he does not does not have.
[01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:48.000]  You'll have to show good faith. The question is, what claim do you have against the current holder of the property?
[01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:59.000]  OK, well, that's not really that at this point, because he filed a for an injunction against me.
[01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:04.000]  There's no like I would not be able to even file a complaint against him.
[01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:07.000]  Of course you would. You just can't go to his house.
[01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:14.000]  No, you have to prove that the seller had no right to sell it to the buyer.
[01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:23.000]  What is what is your claim against the holder of the property that the property was fraudulently foreclosed on that?
[01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:30.000]  I was not that's not a claim against the holder.
[01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:41.000]  Do you have evidence to indicate that the holder purchased the property in anything other than good faith?
[01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:48.000]  No, my my contention is that it was it was a fraudulent conveyance of the deed.
[01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:55.000]  OK, hold on, hold on. This is in order to make a claim against the current holder,
[01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:00.000]  you have to be able to show that the holder failed to act in good faith.
[01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:10.000]  And the reason I ask that that way is can you look in filings in the public record
[01:16:10.000 --> 01:16:22.000]  and demonstrate cause to believe that the foreclosure was exercised by someone without competent authority to do the foreclosure.
[01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:28.000]  If you can show that from the documentation in the public record,
[01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:40.000]  then you can hold the current purchaser as what's the term?
[01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:46.000]  You have the imputed knowledge, the propriety of the sale.
[01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:52.000]  Then you have a claim against it. Until you can make that claim, you have nothing to claim.
[01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:59.000]  OK, sorry about that. You prepare to knee arithmetic?
[01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:12.020]  You prepare to knee arithmetic rather than just
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[01:19:26.820 --> 01:19:49.820]  Well, ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again. I was blindsided but now I can see your plan. You put the fear in my pocket, took the money from my hand. Ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again.
[01:19:49.820 --> 01:20:08.820]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks. 512-646-1984 is the number dialed to join some conversation. And we're going back to Susan in Florida. And Susan, we're starting to wrap up some callers so we need to kind of come to some kind of understanding here.
[01:20:08.820 --> 01:20:24.820]  Let me do a transition here. When I went out, you know, I was saying that you have to have a claim. And in order to get that claim, Joe, will you explain to her how to get that claim?
[01:20:24.820 --> 01:20:36.820]  Well, one, before you can get the claim, you need to go back into public record. And when you go into public record, you're going to look at documents that were filed pertaining to your property.
[01:20:36.820 --> 01:20:47.820]  And there's probably going to be assignments of deed of trust. Surely after the assignment of deed of trust, there's probably going to be a substitution of trustee.
[01:20:47.820 --> 01:20:57.820]  After that was filed, there would then be a notice of default election to sell under a deed of trust. These are some of the documents.
[01:20:57.820 --> 01:21:17.820]  So what you would probably need would be a chain of title analysis in which we would compare the documents that you would have, like documents presented to the courts, documents that are in a public record, and compare the chain of title to the chain of endorsements.
[01:21:17.820 --> 01:21:40.820]  And look at what was to be done, what was done, and what was not done. Because if you invalidate the documents that purport to be an assignment, well, then you go down the chain, and then that would invalidate the substitution of trustee, appointment of substitution of trustee,
[01:21:40.820 --> 01:21:58.820]  which then would invalidate the notice of default. Because the correct question is, was a document eligible to be recorded? What rights were conferred? Remembering.
[01:21:58.820 --> 01:22:10.820]  And did the person who filed the document have authority by the record to file the document? Correct.
[01:22:10.820 --> 01:22:30.820]  If the record doesn't show that, then if you can see that by looking in the record, then you can go back to this guy that bought the property and say, I can see it in the record, and you have imputed knowledge of it so you could see it in the record.
[01:22:30.820 --> 01:22:36.820]  Therefore, you now cannot be construed as a bona fide purchaser.
[01:22:36.820 --> 01:22:43.820]  All right, she's going to have to invalidate the substitute trustee that did the trustee's sale.
[01:22:43.820 --> 01:22:59.820]  So she's going to have to show to the courts that the seller, all right, that bought the property from the substitute trustee did not have a right to purchase the property because there was clouded title.
[01:22:59.820 --> 01:23:08.820]  And again, there's no true sale without a perfected lien, and you cannot perfect lien under a clouded title.
[01:23:08.820 --> 01:23:12.820]  And how would you perfect? You'd file in public record. Right.
[01:23:12.820 --> 01:23:25.820]  So, again, you have a lot going on. It just depends, again, you each state has its individual statutes that pertain to assignment, whether you have them or not, is regardless.
[01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:35.820]  When you look at the purpose of the actions, did they follow law? Yes or no? Many times they didn't.
[01:23:35.820 --> 01:23:43.820]  Most times they didn't. Correct. And there's a different constructive knowledge versus actual knowledge, you know.
[01:23:43.820 --> 01:23:49.820]  So, all right. Well, Susan, I hope we answered your question.
[01:23:49.820 --> 01:23:56.820]  We've got a number of other callers. Did that clear anything up for you or did that just add to the confusion?
[01:23:56.820 --> 01:24:07.820]  I understand where you're coming from with that. But the thing is, the way I look at it, I have to clear up the whole injunction issue first before I can address it.
[01:24:07.820 --> 01:24:15.820]  No, no, no. That just means that you can't come near him. You don't go knock on his door. That doesn't stop you from filing suit.
[01:24:15.820 --> 01:24:32.820]  Okay. Let's look at a tacit implication. Since you tried to contact him and settled this amicably outside the court, but he chose to go get an injunction against you through the courts,
[01:24:32.820 --> 01:24:39.820]  I would say the negotiations have broken down and your only avenue is the judicial system.
[01:24:39.820 --> 01:24:48.820]  Yes. And there were also lies that were made. That doesn't matter. Looking at it from the point of the court, they don't care.
[01:24:48.820 --> 01:24:51.820]  We want to deal with facts. Objection hearsay, okay?
[01:24:51.820 --> 01:24:59.820]  There's no issues as far as defamation of my character to get a domestic violence injunction against me that I can go after.
[01:24:59.820 --> 01:25:04.820]  How did that defame your character? Because I've never been accused of domestic violence.
[01:25:04.820 --> 01:25:13.820]  No, no, no. That's not a response. Objection, non-responsive. How did that damage your character?
[01:25:13.820 --> 01:25:16.820]  Because in the court record, it's saying that I've been...
[01:25:16.820 --> 01:25:28.820]  Okay, hold on, hold on. Let me go to the so what rule. So what? So it's in the court record. The court's going to say, so what?
[01:25:28.820 --> 01:25:29.820]  Exactly.
[01:25:29.820 --> 01:25:41.820]  How have you been harmed? Hurting your feelings is not harm. Maybe it might cause me harm sometime in the future.
[01:25:41.820 --> 01:25:50.820]  That's not harm. How have you actually been harmed? That's what you have to show.
[01:25:50.820 --> 01:26:01.820]  You know what I tell people? If you've got a claim against you that's improper, like when we have an improper claim against somebody's property,
[01:26:01.820 --> 01:26:09.820]  and say they're trying to short sell it, and this lender over here is claiming they have a right to foreclose on it.
[01:26:09.820 --> 01:26:14.820]  So you go to a real estate agent and say, hey, I would like to sell this property. What do you think it's worth?
[01:26:14.820 --> 01:26:20.820]  And give me a bid on it. Say, okay, I want to sell you this property. But I got this guy over here trying to foreclose on me.
[01:26:20.820 --> 01:26:29.820]  And the guy would say, well, I'd give you this much money for it. But since you got that guy trying to foreclose on you, I'm not going to give you a squat for it.
[01:26:29.820 --> 01:26:41.820]  Now you have lost the benefit of the bargain. Now when the judge says, how have you been harmed?
[01:26:41.820 --> 01:26:51.820]  This is how I've been harmed. I had an offer for this amount of money. But because of this false claim over here, I lost this bargain.
[01:26:51.820 --> 01:26:58.820]  I have a right to the benefit of the bargain. That's the harm you can claim. Okay, he filed an injunction against you.
[01:26:58.820 --> 01:27:07.820]  I know it hurts your feelings. And I know you don't like the idea of that being in the record. But how have you been harmed?
[01:27:07.820 --> 01:27:16.820]  Well, also with an injunction like that, they're actually requesting that you turn over any ammunition or any guns that you have.
[01:27:16.820 --> 01:27:18.820]  Injection, unresponsive.
[01:27:18.820 --> 01:27:25.820]  Did you take the time to go down there and turn over ammunition?
[01:27:25.820 --> 01:27:27.820]  No.
[01:27:27.820 --> 01:27:30.820]  How have you been harmed?
[01:27:30.820 --> 01:27:36.820]  But anyone that's around me would have to turn in the guns also or ammunition.
[01:27:36.820 --> 01:27:40.820]  Has anyone around you had to turn in their guns and ammunition?
[01:27:40.820 --> 01:27:43.820]  Property.
[01:27:43.820 --> 01:27:45.820]  That wasn't an answer.
[01:27:45.820 --> 01:27:47.820]  Non-responsive.
[01:27:47.820 --> 01:27:52.820]  Has anyone around you had to turn in any property, guns, ammunition?
[01:27:52.820 --> 01:27:54.820]  No, but as far as...
[01:27:54.820 --> 01:27:59.820]  Okay, then there's no harm. We're actually going way down a...
[01:27:59.820 --> 01:28:05.820]  I know this is difficult for you and I know it sucks.
[01:28:05.820 --> 01:28:13.820]  But for some things, there are no really efficient and adequate remedies.
[01:28:13.820 --> 01:28:14.820]  Okay.
[01:28:14.820 --> 01:28:19.820]  And courts are going to say the fact that this is here does not harm you.
[01:28:19.820 --> 01:28:25.820]  If you can show actual harm, then you have something you can adjudicate.
[01:28:25.820 --> 01:28:26.820]  Okay.
[01:28:26.820 --> 01:28:30.820]  And it really goes to the reality of the way things are.
[01:28:30.820 --> 01:28:38.820]  I have a conviction against me that's absolutely so incredibly horrendously improper
[01:28:38.820 --> 01:28:40.820]  that it's almost unbelievable.
[01:28:40.820 --> 01:28:45.820]  But it's going to take a lot to do something about it.
[01:28:45.820 --> 01:28:49.820]  It's not fair, but life is just not always fair.
[01:28:49.820 --> 01:28:52.820]  Got to choose your battles.
[01:28:52.820 --> 01:28:55.820]  That's the most important lesson.
[01:28:55.820 --> 01:28:59.820]  Go back, look at those records, figure out what they did wrong,
[01:28:59.820 --> 01:29:01.820]  land on them like a ton of bricks,
[01:29:01.820 --> 01:29:06.820]  and the next communication this guy gets from you is a summons.
[01:29:06.820 --> 01:29:11.820]  And let him file a restraining order on that.
[01:29:11.820 --> 01:29:15.820]  Well, thank you so much and have a nice evening.
[01:29:15.820 --> 01:29:16.820]  And thank you for calling in.
[01:29:16.820 --> 01:29:17.820]  Thank you, Susan.
[01:29:17.820 --> 01:29:25.820]  Now let's go to the great state of Ohio where Craig in Ohio has been patiently waiting.
[01:29:25.820 --> 01:29:28.820]  Hello, Craig. What do you got for us this evening?
[01:29:28.820 --> 01:29:30.820]  Hey, how you guys doing?
[01:29:30.820 --> 01:29:31.820]  Good.
[01:29:31.820 --> 01:29:33.820]  I've been listening.
[01:29:33.820 --> 01:29:35.820]  Wait a minute, wait a minute.
[01:29:35.820 --> 01:29:40.820]  Craig, you're too late. Your time is up.
[01:29:40.820 --> 01:29:45.820]  We've got 15 minutes and we'll go out on break, folks.
[01:29:45.820 --> 01:29:49.820]  512-646-1984 is the number to dial.
[01:29:49.820 --> 01:29:51.820]  Call in, get in line.
[01:29:51.820 --> 01:30:04.820]  We'll be right back after this brief message.
[01:30:04.820 --> 01:30:07.820]  In China, a toddler crawled out of a high-rise apartment window
[01:30:07.820 --> 01:30:11.820]  and was plunging to her death when a miracle happened.
[01:30:11.820 --> 01:30:12.820]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[01:30:12.820 --> 01:30:17.820]  In a moment, I'll be back to tell you how a quick-thinking stranger saved her life.
[01:30:17.820 --> 01:30:19.820]  Privacy is under attack.
[01:30:19.820 --> 01:30:22.820]  When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[01:30:22.820 --> 01:30:27.820]  And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[01:30:27.820 --> 01:30:29.820]  So protect your rights.
[01:30:29.820 --> 01:30:33.820]  Say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[01:30:33.820 --> 01:30:35.820]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
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[01:30:56.820 --> 01:31:00.820]  Their frantic screams alerted a passerby, 31-year-old Wu Juping,
[01:31:00.820 --> 01:31:02.820]  who looked up at the scene.
[01:31:02.820 --> 01:31:04.820]  She kicked off her heels and ran to the building
[01:31:04.820 --> 01:31:08.820]  just moments before the little girl lost her balance and fell.
[01:31:08.820 --> 01:31:12.820]  Juping stretched out her arms, felt a sharp pain, and passed out.
[01:31:12.820 --> 01:31:16.820]  When she awoke, she discovered she'd broken her left arm and saved a life.
[01:31:16.820 --> 01:31:20.820]  She'd caught the baby, who had nothing but a few bruises to show for her adventure.
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[01:31:30.820 --> 01:31:31.820]  I lost my son.
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[01:31:34.820 --> 01:31:35.820]  On September 11, 2001.
[01:31:35.820 --> 01:31:38.820]  Most people don't know that a third tower fell on September 11.
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[01:31:42.820 --> 01:31:46.820]  Although the official explanation is that fire brought down Building 7,
[01:31:46.820 --> 01:31:50.820]  over 1,200 architects and engineers have looked into the evidence
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[01:31:56.820 --> 01:31:57.820]  Go to buildingwhat.org.
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[01:33:02.820 --> 01:33:04.820]  Looking for some truth?
[01:33:04.820 --> 01:33:05.820]  You found it.
[01:33:05.820 --> 01:33:34.820]  Logosradionetwork.com
[01:33:36.820 --> 01:33:40.820]  The wicked come with temptation
[01:33:42.820 --> 01:33:45.820]  They're trying to buy the whole place
[01:33:47.820 --> 01:33:51.820]  They wanna poison the nation
[01:33:53.820 --> 01:33:56.820]  Because they're falling from grace
[01:33:58.820 --> 01:34:02.820]  I will not drink that cup
[01:34:02.820 --> 01:34:07.820]  I just can't act out of way
[01:34:09.820 --> 01:34:11.820]  They got this problem
[01:34:11.820 --> 01:34:13.820]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[01:34:13.820 --> 01:34:17.820]  And while I've got the mic to myself, haha,
[01:34:17.820 --> 01:34:22.820]  I would like to encourage everybody once again to go by Logosradionetwork.com
[01:34:22.820 --> 01:34:26.820]  and take advantage of all the good deals that are there.
[01:34:26.820 --> 01:34:30.820]  Also, Rule of Law Radio, Eddie Craig,
[01:34:30.820 --> 01:34:33.820]  our illustrious...
[01:34:33.820 --> 01:34:35.820]  Wait, wait, wait, Eddie who?
[01:34:35.820 --> 01:34:41.820]  Craig, Eddie Craig, our resident expert on fighting traffic tickets,
[01:34:41.820 --> 01:34:44.820]  has a wonderful package.
[01:34:44.820 --> 01:34:48.820]  If you want to buck the system,
[01:34:48.820 --> 01:34:52.820]  the traffic court is a good place to get you feet wet,
[01:34:52.820 --> 01:34:55.820]  and Eddie Craig's seminar is...
[01:34:55.820 --> 01:35:00.820]  I don't know of any other system out there
[01:35:00.820 --> 01:35:04.820]  that will inform you better as to how to get that done.
[01:35:04.820 --> 01:35:08.820]  So please do go by and take advantage of our sponsors.
[01:35:08.820 --> 01:35:12.820]  By doing so, you help yourself by keeping us on the air.
[01:35:12.820 --> 01:35:13.820]  So...
[01:35:13.820 --> 01:35:15.820]  Let me put a word in.
[01:35:15.820 --> 01:35:26.820]  The traffic courts are by far the most corrupt courts in the country.
[01:35:26.820 --> 01:35:31.820]  They do not care about anything other than collecting your money.
[01:35:31.820 --> 01:35:33.820]  That's what they're there for.
[01:35:33.820 --> 01:35:38.820]  If you get a ticket, it's going to cost you between 300 and 400 bucks.
[01:35:38.820 --> 01:35:44.820]  So, you might as well get a good legal education.
[01:35:44.820 --> 01:35:48.820]  You can't get as good a legal education in the higher courts
[01:35:48.820 --> 01:35:53.820]  because these guys in the higher courts are actually smarter
[01:35:53.820 --> 01:35:56.820]  and they understand law better.
[01:35:56.820 --> 01:35:59.820]  They're much more civil.
[01:35:59.820 --> 01:36:03.820]  They'll treat you with much more dignity and respect.
[01:36:03.820 --> 01:36:09.820]  They won't give you the legal workout you'll get in the traffic court.
[01:36:09.820 --> 01:36:14.820]  But in these higher courts, the outcome is a lot bigger deal.
[01:36:14.820 --> 01:36:16.820]  In the traffic courts, who cares?
[01:36:16.820 --> 01:36:18.820]  It's going to cost you the same anyway.
[01:36:18.820 --> 01:36:23.820]  So you might as well give these guys a really good dance through the legal system.
[01:36:23.820 --> 01:36:28.820]  It is the cheapest legal education you will ever get.
[01:36:28.820 --> 01:36:30.820]  There's no argument.
[01:36:30.820 --> 01:36:34.820]  Far more valuable to you in what you will learn about the system
[01:36:34.820 --> 01:36:38.820]  than the crummy ticket you're dealing with.
[01:36:38.820 --> 01:36:40.820]  Well said.
[01:36:40.820 --> 01:36:45.820]  Eddie Craig is absolutely the guy.
[01:36:45.820 --> 01:36:50.820]  He will show you how to wind their clocks.
[01:36:50.820 --> 01:36:52.820]  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
[01:36:52.820 --> 01:36:54.820]  Don't blame me. I agree.
[01:36:54.820 --> 01:36:59.820]  So, Craig in Ohio, I'm sorry we had to go to break so soon,
[01:36:59.820 --> 01:37:04.820]  but you got exactly seven minutes to get off your chest what you came here for.
[01:37:04.820 --> 01:37:06.820]  How are you guys doing again?
[01:37:06.820 --> 01:37:10.820]  Fine, thank you. I'm doing good.
[01:37:10.820 --> 01:37:15.820]  Joe and Steve, man, I really like the commentary, the material you guys are talking.
[01:37:15.820 --> 01:37:24.820]  It's been a long time that I've heard for prosaic consumption, if you will,
[01:37:24.820 --> 01:37:27.820]  or public consumption, this type of material.
[01:37:27.820 --> 01:37:32.820]  I'm hoping that you guys will come back on more and do what you're doing now
[01:37:32.820 --> 01:37:37.820]  because this scholarly material, and I know there's a great more
[01:37:37.820 --> 01:37:40.820]  or a great deal more of information that you're holding onto.
[01:37:40.820 --> 01:37:42.820]  You're really not giving us all that you got.
[01:37:42.820 --> 01:37:47.820]  You probably shouldn't, but I enjoy the material.
[01:37:47.820 --> 01:37:49.820]  I've been listening to it on the radio for a long time,
[01:37:49.820 --> 01:37:53.820]  but you guys on this instance here, you guys really got me,
[01:37:53.820 --> 01:37:56.820]  and I think the listeners would greatly benefit.
[01:37:56.820 --> 01:37:59.820]  We've been listening to a lot of wore-out material,
[01:37:59.820 --> 01:38:03.820]  we've had a lot of gibberish and nonsense over the years
[01:38:03.820 --> 01:38:08.820]  and seen stuff that don't work, and it's like a slaughterhouse
[01:38:08.820 --> 01:38:11.820]  and prosaic from hell stuff.
[01:38:11.820 --> 01:38:14.820]  That stuff don't really work well, and I looked at some of the material
[01:38:14.820 --> 01:38:19.820]  and looked at the site, talked to Steve, and I know you guys got the goods.
[01:38:19.820 --> 01:38:21.820]  So that's what I'm saying.
[01:38:21.820 --> 01:38:25.820]  I think that you guys should be on here all the time or run a radio station
[01:38:25.820 --> 01:38:30.820]  or a show, whatever it is that you can do, because the material is fantastic.
[01:38:30.820 --> 01:38:38.820]  Well, I took a little hiatus for a little bit due to my schedule,
[01:38:38.820 --> 01:38:42.820]  but you will be hearing me every Friday from 8 to 10 along with Steve
[01:38:42.820 --> 01:38:45.820]  and then Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens as well.
[01:38:45.820 --> 01:38:47.820]  Right.
[01:38:47.820 --> 01:38:51.820]  So we've got a lot of material, and this is a perfect venue.
[01:38:51.820 --> 01:38:57.820]  We appreciate the kudos, but do you have any questions or comments
[01:38:57.820 --> 01:39:02.820]  that are along the lines of quiet title actions or trespass or tri-title?
[01:39:02.820 --> 01:39:04.820]  No, not at this time.
[01:39:04.820 --> 01:39:07.820]  The material, I'll say this, I'll make a statement.
[01:39:07.820 --> 01:39:10.820]  The material that you guys are talking about really fits really well
[01:39:10.820 --> 01:39:17.820]  in the material that I got with NCLC and Michoud Banks.
[01:39:17.820 --> 01:39:20.820]  Define NCLC.
[01:39:20.820 --> 01:39:22.820]  National Consumer Law Center.
[01:39:22.820 --> 01:39:23.820]  Gotcha.
[01:39:23.820 --> 01:39:27.820]  Which is expensive, so it would be wise to go to you guys in that way
[01:39:27.820 --> 01:39:32.820]  and have the education that way with hands-on or the classes or whatever,
[01:39:32.820 --> 01:39:34.820]  if it's stuff that's available.
[01:39:34.820 --> 01:39:38.820]  But it's really scholarly, and that's what we need to know.
[01:39:38.820 --> 01:39:43.820]  This blanket stuff just doesn't work, man.
[01:39:43.820 --> 01:39:45.820]  So that's what I'm looking for.
[01:39:45.820 --> 01:39:47.820]  That's what I'm looking for for you guys, and that's why I tuned in,
[01:39:47.820 --> 01:39:52.820]  because I think you guys are the sunrise, and that's pretty much it.
[01:39:52.820 --> 01:39:57.820]  I don't have much more to say or questions to ask.
[01:39:57.820 --> 01:39:58.820]  I appreciate that.
[01:39:58.820 --> 01:40:04.820]  And on the terms of being specific and on point, Toombly v. Iqbal.
[01:40:04.820 --> 01:40:09.820]  Toombly v. Iqbal had a great impact in the federal courts,
[01:40:09.820 --> 01:40:15.820]  and now we see the same, starting to see the same type of requirements
[01:40:15.820 --> 01:40:19.820]  creeping into our state venues.
[01:40:19.820 --> 01:40:24.820]  Just a real brief overview of Toombly v. Iqbal.
[01:40:24.820 --> 01:40:32.820]  These are requirements of the federal courts.
[01:40:32.820 --> 01:40:36.820]  When a petitioner files his pleading into court,
[01:40:36.820 --> 01:40:42.820]  you better be on point and cover all of the elements.
[01:40:42.820 --> 01:40:48.820]  If not, Rule 12B6 is going to kick you right square in the seat of your pants.
[01:40:48.820 --> 01:40:52.820]  So whether you're in the, and my whole point of saying this,
[01:40:52.820 --> 01:40:58.820]  is whether you're in the federal venue and bound by the idioms
[01:40:58.820 --> 01:41:02.820]  set forth in Toombly v. Iqbal, or whether you're in the state venue,
[01:41:02.820 --> 01:41:05.820]  you owe it to yourself, you owe it to the courts,
[01:41:05.820 --> 01:41:11.820]  and you owe it to those who come behind you to set good precedents.
[01:41:11.820 --> 01:41:16.820]  If you're going to go, and we keep saying that the trial court is there
[01:41:16.820 --> 01:41:19.820]  only for you to put a footprint on your way,
[01:41:19.820 --> 01:41:22.820]  or to leave a footprint on your way to the appellate court,
[01:41:22.820 --> 01:41:27.820]  if you're bringing in an issue such as I am in my own personal case,
[01:41:27.820 --> 01:41:31.820]  I don't want to make this a beat my own drum thing,
[01:41:31.820 --> 01:41:37.820]  but at the end of my, and it's not over yet,
[01:41:37.820 --> 01:41:41.820]  but at the end of this struggle that I've been in for the last five years,
[01:41:41.820 --> 01:41:44.820]  should this go to the appellate court,
[01:41:44.820 --> 01:41:47.820]  we will be setting precedents here in the state of Texas,
[01:41:47.820 --> 01:41:51.820]  and we'll be setting good precedents.
[01:41:51.820 --> 01:41:53.820]  That's still kind of up in the air.
[01:41:53.820 --> 01:41:58.820]  We went to court today, got the whole thing thrown out,
[01:41:58.820 --> 01:42:04.820]  so the other side's going to have to back up and punt one more time.
[01:42:04.820 --> 01:42:09.820]  But I have the feeling that since I've been fighting this thing for five years,
[01:42:09.820 --> 01:42:12.820]  these guys are not going to give up very easily.
[01:42:12.820 --> 01:42:17.820]  I do have the feeling that we will prevail again in the next round.
[01:42:17.820 --> 01:42:22.820]  We're waiting for the other side to file their next forcible detainer.
[01:42:22.820 --> 01:42:25.820]  We have reasonable expectation to prevail.
[01:42:25.820 --> 01:42:31.820]  We have reasonable expectation that the other side is going to appeal.
[01:42:31.820 --> 01:42:37.820]  So now I have the obligation, the legal obligation,
[01:42:37.820 --> 01:42:42.820]  to even though I'm in, I will be in a justice precinct,
[01:42:42.820 --> 01:42:45.820]  that is the lowest court in the state of Texas,
[01:42:45.820 --> 01:42:48.820]  I'm going to follow the idioms in Tumbley v. Ickbull
[01:42:48.820 --> 01:42:53.820]  and plead every single element in its entirety,
[01:42:53.820 --> 01:42:57.820]  so that when we do go to appeal,
[01:42:57.820 --> 01:43:03.820]  there will be no question as to who actually has the right to possess
[01:43:03.820 --> 01:43:06.820]  this house that I'm in right now.
[01:43:06.820 --> 01:43:10.820]  So what you're saying, Steve, is that you're setting up for appeal.
[01:43:10.820 --> 01:43:11.820]  Yes.
[01:43:11.820 --> 01:43:12.820]  From day one.
[01:43:12.820 --> 01:43:14.820]  From day one, yes.
[01:43:14.820 --> 01:43:17.820]  And that's what everyone should be looking at.
[01:43:17.820 --> 01:43:22.820]  You need to be setting your eyes at the end of the field.
[01:43:22.820 --> 01:43:23.820]  Yeah.
[01:43:23.820 --> 01:43:26.820]  Set up for appeal from day one.
[01:43:26.820 --> 01:43:29.820]  So shoot for the stars.
[01:43:29.820 --> 01:43:31.820]  If you hit the moon, hey, you did good.
[01:43:31.820 --> 01:43:33.820]  Correct.
[01:43:33.820 --> 01:43:35.820]  And I hear the music in the background.
[01:43:35.820 --> 01:43:38.820]  Craig, if you've got nothing else, we'll let you go and move on.
[01:43:38.820 --> 01:43:39.820]  All right, guys, thanks, man.
[01:43:39.820 --> 01:43:40.820]  We're hungry for your info.
[01:43:40.820 --> 01:43:41.820]  See you.
[01:43:41.820 --> 01:43:43.820]  Thank you for calling in.
[01:43:43.820 --> 01:43:48.820]  512-646-1984 is the number you can dial to join us tonight,
[01:43:48.820 --> 01:43:50.820]  and we've got some more callers on the board.
[01:43:50.820 --> 01:43:53.820]  Folks, we'll be right back after these few messages.
[01:43:53.820 --> 01:43:56.820]  If you'd like to call in and get in line, do it now.
[01:43:56.820 --> 01:43:59.820]  We'll be right back.
[01:43:59.820 --> 01:44:03.820]  You feel tired when talking about important topics like money and politics?
[01:44:03.820 --> 01:44:06.820]  Are you confused by words like the Constitution or the Federal Reserve?
[01:44:06.820 --> 01:44:07.820]  What?
[01:44:07.820 --> 01:44:12.820]  If so, you may be diagnosed with the deadliest disease known today, stupidity.
[01:44:12.820 --> 01:44:15.820]  Hi, my name is Steve Holt, and like millions of other Americans,
[01:44:15.820 --> 01:44:18.820]  I was diagnosed with stupidity at an early age.
[01:44:18.820 --> 01:44:21.820]  I had no idea that the number one cause of the disease
[01:44:21.820 --> 01:44:24.820]  is found in almost every home in America, the television.
[01:44:24.820 --> 01:44:28.820]  Unfortunately, that puts most Americans at risk of catching stupidity,
[01:44:28.820 --> 01:44:29.820]  but there is hope.
[01:44:29.820 --> 01:44:31.820]  The staff at Brave New Books have helped me
[01:44:31.820 --> 01:44:35.820]  and thousands of other foxaholics suffering from sports zombieism recover.
[01:44:35.820 --> 01:44:38.820]  And because of Brave New Books, I now enjoy reading
[01:44:38.820 --> 01:44:42.820]  and watching educational documentaries without feeling tired or uninterested.
[01:44:42.820 --> 01:44:45.820]  So if you or anybody you know suffers from stupidity,
[01:44:45.820 --> 01:44:51.820]  then you need to call 512-480-2503 or visit them at 1904Guadalupe
[01:44:51.820 --> 01:44:53.820]  or bravenewbookstore.com.
[01:44:53.820 --> 01:44:55.820]  Side effects from using Brave New Books products
[01:44:55.820 --> 01:44:57.820]  may include discernment and enlarged vocabulary
[01:44:57.820 --> 01:45:00.820]  and an overall increase in mental functioning.
[01:45:00.820 --> 01:45:03.820]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[01:45:46.820 --> 01:45:51.820]  forms for civil cases, pro se tactics, and much more.
[01:45:51.820 --> 01:45:55.820]  Please visit ruleoflawradio.com and click on the banner
[01:45:55.820 --> 01:46:00.820]  or call toll-free, 866-LAW-EZ.
[01:46:00.820 --> 01:46:27.820]  Thank you.
[01:46:27.820 --> 01:46:49.820]  And we're back on Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[01:46:49.820 --> 01:46:51.820]  Thank you all for tuning in tonight.
[01:46:51.820 --> 01:46:58.820]  512-646-1984 is the number to dial, and we're going to go to Bernice in Arkansas.
[01:46:58.820 --> 01:47:00.820]  Hello, Bernice in Arkansas.
[01:47:00.820 --> 01:47:01.820]  How are you this evening?
[01:47:01.820 --> 01:47:03.820]  I'm just fine, Steve.
[01:47:03.820 --> 01:47:05.820]  I'm so glad to talk to you.
[01:47:05.820 --> 01:47:12.820]  Well, you might not be after this, but anyway, I'm glad you called in.
[01:47:12.820 --> 01:47:13.820]  What do you got for us?
[01:47:13.820 --> 01:47:18.820]  Like Craig had said, I'm very happy with the information you're giving out.
[01:47:18.820 --> 01:47:22.820]  And my one question, which the fellow who answered the phone explained,
[01:47:22.820 --> 01:47:24.820]  I want to know if it's going to be archived
[01:47:24.820 --> 01:47:29.820]  and how soon I can listen to it again and again and again.
[01:47:29.820 --> 01:47:30.820]  Yes, ma'am.
[01:47:30.820 --> 01:47:34.820]  All of the radio, excuse me, cut, take two.
[01:47:34.820 --> 01:47:37.820]  All of the shows on Rule of Law Radio are archived.
[01:47:37.820 --> 01:47:42.820]  You can reach the archives either via ruleoflawradio.com
[01:47:42.820 --> 01:47:45.820]  or logosradionetwork.com.
[01:47:45.820 --> 01:47:52.820]  And as to when they will be archived, they will be archived as soon as possible.
[01:47:52.820 --> 01:47:53.820]  Oh, wonderful.
[01:47:53.820 --> 01:47:56.820]  And that is as specific as I can get.
[01:47:56.820 --> 01:47:57.820]  Yes, this is great.
[01:47:57.820 --> 01:48:02.820]  I have been following with Randy and David for a couple of years now,
[01:48:02.820 --> 01:48:04.820]  and so I'm real excited about them.
[01:48:04.820 --> 01:48:05.820]  Very good, thank you.
[01:48:05.820 --> 01:48:08.820]  But the reason I had for you, Steve, as you had mentioned last week,
[01:48:08.820 --> 01:48:10.820]  I think about land patents.
[01:48:10.820 --> 01:48:11.820]  Yes.
[01:48:11.820 --> 01:48:14.820]  I'm very interested in learning more about land patents,
[01:48:14.820 --> 01:48:19.820]  and I wondered if there's some way I could email you to give you my address
[01:48:19.820 --> 01:48:22.820]  and you can email me back or some way make the contact
[01:48:22.820 --> 01:48:24.820]  so I can get more information on land patents.
[01:48:24.820 --> 01:48:26.820]  I'm very interested in it.
[01:48:26.820 --> 01:48:29.820]  Do you have a pencil or a scratch awl?
[01:48:29.820 --> 01:48:30.820]  Well, I do.
[01:48:30.820 --> 01:48:36.820]  Yes, as a matter of fact, you know, I took my shoes off today.
[01:48:36.820 --> 01:48:37.820]  Okay.
[01:48:37.820 --> 01:48:41.820]  Well, you know, when you're in Arkansas, you're not expected to wear shoes.
[01:48:41.820 --> 01:48:43.820]  You're not supposed to, are you?
[01:48:43.820 --> 01:48:44.820]  No, I don't think so.
[01:48:44.820 --> 01:48:46.820]  It's against the law.
[01:48:46.820 --> 01:48:48.820]  Now, wait a minute.
[01:48:48.820 --> 01:48:52.820]  You're from Arkansas, but you're not speaking Hillbilly.
[01:48:52.820 --> 01:48:53.820]  Well...
[01:48:53.820 --> 01:48:56.820]  She's from the upper side.
[01:48:56.820 --> 01:48:57.820]  Oh, okay.
[01:48:57.820 --> 01:49:01.820]  I don't speak Hillbilly no more.
[01:49:01.820 --> 01:49:03.820]  She has progressed past that.
[01:49:03.820 --> 01:49:14.820]  Yes, ma'am, you can reach me at steve underscore skidmore, the number one, at hotmail.com.
[01:49:14.820 --> 01:49:15.820]  Okay, wonderful.
[01:49:15.820 --> 01:49:17.820]  I will do that tomorrow.
[01:49:17.820 --> 01:49:21.820]  I'll get my thoughts together so I can ask you the questions I need to know.
[01:49:21.820 --> 01:49:22.820]  Very good.
[01:49:22.820 --> 01:49:23.820]  I look forward to it.
[01:49:23.820 --> 01:49:25.820]  Yeah, and I am...
[01:49:25.820 --> 01:49:26.820]  Now, keep in...
[01:49:26.820 --> 01:49:28.820]  Let me preface this.
[01:49:28.820 --> 01:49:39.820]  Keep in mind that with land patents, Texas versus the other 49 states, it's a different process altogether.
[01:49:39.820 --> 01:49:41.820]  And here's why, just very briefly.
[01:49:41.820 --> 01:49:44.820]  Texas has its own land archives.
[01:49:44.820 --> 01:49:48.820]  It's called the General Land Office.
[01:49:48.820 --> 01:49:57.820]  The other 49 states, including Arkansas, operate from the Bureau of Land Management.
[01:49:57.820 --> 01:50:09.820]  Now, in Texas, back in the 1800s, every square inch of Texas was patented with the exception of the school zones.
[01:50:09.820 --> 01:50:14.820]  This was the only truly public land there was.
[01:50:14.820 --> 01:50:24.820]  All other land was granted by the Republic of Texas to large property owners or patent owners.
[01:50:24.820 --> 01:50:30.820]  Now, there's two things that you can do specific to Texas, not through the Bureau of Land Management,
[01:50:30.820 --> 01:50:33.820]  but through the GLO here in Texas.
[01:50:33.820 --> 01:50:43.820]  You can accept the existing land patent, which comes with, along with the water and mineral rights,
[01:50:43.820 --> 01:50:47.820]  or you can get a new one issued from the state of Texas.
[01:50:47.820 --> 01:50:55.820]  And the first thing the state of Texas is going to do is they will strip your patent of the mineral and water rights.
[01:50:55.820 --> 01:51:01.820]  Now, how that operates through the BLM, I don't know,
[01:51:01.820 --> 01:51:07.820]  but I will pass on whatever information that I do possess in regard to land patents.
[01:51:07.820 --> 01:51:08.820]  Be glad.
[01:51:08.820 --> 01:51:10.820]  That'll be wonderful.
[01:51:10.820 --> 01:51:14.820]  I own a piece of land here near the lake and so forth,
[01:51:14.820 --> 01:51:17.820]  and I sure would like to get a land patent out on it.
[01:51:17.820 --> 01:51:19.820]  There's a lot of advantages to it.
[01:51:19.820 --> 01:51:23.820]  Yes, there are, from what I've been able to study.
[01:51:23.820 --> 01:51:27.820]  But when I heard you mention it, I thought, yes, I'm going to get some more information from him.
[01:51:27.820 --> 01:51:31.820]  And the next time I call you, I'll tell you about my foreclosure problem.
[01:51:31.820 --> 01:51:33.820]  Okay, agreed.
[01:51:33.820 --> 01:51:35.820]  Be glad to hear that.
[01:51:35.820 --> 01:51:39.820]  So do you have any other questions regarding your foreclosure problems?
[01:51:39.820 --> 01:51:41.820]  Not at the present time.
[01:51:41.820 --> 01:51:48.820]  I'm waiting to get another piece of information here before I can formulate any kind of questions.
[01:51:48.820 --> 01:51:49.820]  Very good.
[01:51:49.820 --> 01:51:50.820]  Understood.
[01:51:50.820 --> 01:51:51.820]  Okay.
[01:51:51.820 --> 01:51:53.820]  Is that all you had for us?
[01:51:53.820 --> 01:51:54.820]  That's it.
[01:51:54.820 --> 01:51:57.820]  Well, Bernice, thank you very much for calling in tonight.
[01:51:57.820 --> 01:51:58.820]  Okay.
[01:51:58.820 --> 01:52:01.820]  I enjoy it immensely.
[01:52:01.820 --> 01:52:02.820]  Very good.
[01:52:02.820 --> 01:52:03.820]  Glad you do.
[01:52:03.820 --> 01:52:04.820]  I'll see you later.
[01:52:04.820 --> 01:52:05.820]  Be sure you tune in next week.
[01:52:05.820 --> 01:52:06.820]  Oh, I will.
[01:52:06.820 --> 01:52:07.820]  I will.
[01:52:07.820 --> 01:52:09.820]  In fact, I'm going to have some friends tune in.
[01:52:09.820 --> 01:52:10.820]  Okay.
[01:52:10.820 --> 01:52:11.820]  Very good.
[01:52:11.820 --> 01:52:17.820]  Bernice, just to give you the heads up, in case you're not sure who I am, this is Joe
[01:52:17.820 --> 01:52:20.820]  Esquivel, I am a licensed private investigator.
[01:52:20.820 --> 01:52:22.820]  Yes.
[01:52:22.820 --> 01:52:27.820]  And I'm with Mortgage Compliance Investigators, and we're licensed by DPS through the state
[01:52:27.820 --> 01:52:28.820]  of Texas.
[01:52:28.820 --> 01:52:29.820]  Ah.
[01:52:29.820 --> 01:52:36.820]  And that is one of the benefits of working with Mortgage Compliance Investigators is that
[01:52:36.820 --> 01:52:44.820]  we do the research, we have access to databases, to a lot of different venues that a large
[01:52:44.820 --> 01:52:47.820]  majority of the people don't have.
[01:52:47.820 --> 01:52:55.820]  So just to give you the heads up, you know, many times when people say they're doing research,
[01:52:55.820 --> 01:52:58.820]  not all of them are licensed to do that.
[01:52:58.820 --> 01:52:59.820]  Right.
[01:52:59.820 --> 01:53:00.820]  Would you agree, Steve?
[01:53:00.820 --> 01:53:01.820]  Yes.
[01:53:01.820 --> 01:53:02.820]  It goes to competent evidence.
[01:53:02.820 --> 01:53:07.820]  I had contacted Billy Bowles today to tell him that I want to do the online class.
[01:53:07.820 --> 01:53:08.820]  Oh, good.
[01:53:08.820 --> 01:53:09.820]  Yeah.
[01:53:09.820 --> 01:53:12.820]  Yes, the online training, that's what I do.
[01:53:12.820 --> 01:53:13.820]  You're talking to the instructor right there.
[01:53:13.820 --> 01:53:14.820]  Once a month.
[01:53:14.820 --> 01:53:15.820]  I am the guy that teaches it.
[01:53:15.820 --> 01:53:17.820]  So I do the online training.
[01:53:17.820 --> 01:53:23.820]  I did a five-hour course today, and tomorrow morning I will get up early, and we will be
[01:53:23.820 --> 01:53:25.820]  doing day two of the online training.
[01:53:25.820 --> 01:53:28.820]  So I'm the guy that puts it together.
[01:53:28.820 --> 01:53:29.820]  Okay.
[01:53:29.820 --> 01:53:34.820]  And just, it's like, it'll be like drinking water from a fire hose.
[01:53:34.820 --> 01:53:37.820]  Are you sure you bring a bucket?
[01:53:37.820 --> 01:53:42.820]  Is this an ongoing thing, or do I have to sign up in advance so I can...
[01:53:42.820 --> 01:53:47.820]  Actually, just give Billy a call on Monday, and we look forward to taking care of you.
[01:53:47.820 --> 01:53:51.820]  And Joe, just for clarification, you do this once a month.
[01:53:51.820 --> 01:53:58.820]  We do the online training, which consists of two five-hour training sessions.
[01:53:58.820 --> 01:54:03.820]  It's done the last Friday of the month and the first Saturday.
[01:54:03.820 --> 01:54:07.820]  So it's done, today's the 28th, tomorrow's Saturday.
[01:54:07.820 --> 01:54:10.820]  Two days back to back, beginning on the last Friday of the month.
[01:54:10.820 --> 01:54:12.820]  We go over everything.
[01:54:12.820 --> 01:54:18.820]  You name it, and we go over it, from inception all the way through.
[01:54:18.820 --> 01:54:23.820]  Not another more comprehensive, informative package anywhere.
[01:54:23.820 --> 01:54:29.820]  In addition to what we talk about doing the webinar, because it's a live webinar,
[01:54:29.820 --> 01:54:37.820]  and I do numerous presentations, all the information that we cover in the course
[01:54:37.820 --> 01:54:40.820]  is given to everyone that's in the webinar.
[01:54:40.820 --> 01:54:41.820]  Yes.
[01:54:41.820 --> 01:54:48.820]  So you get a drop box with a polythera of information, PowerPoint presentations,
[01:54:48.820 --> 01:54:53.820]  cases that we're talking about tonight, highlighted cases.
[01:54:53.820 --> 01:54:57.820]  Again, just a ton of ton of information.
[01:54:57.820 --> 01:55:01.820]  Facts and conclusions, nothing but.
[01:55:01.820 --> 01:55:02.820]  Correct.
[01:55:02.820 --> 01:55:06.820]  Okay, so I have to wait until the end of March to get this...
[01:55:06.820 --> 01:55:08.820]  Well, correct.
[01:55:08.820 --> 01:55:12.820]  The next one will be the last...
[01:55:12.820 --> 01:55:13.820]  Right, the online training.
[01:55:13.820 --> 01:55:14.820]  Again, because...
[01:55:14.820 --> 01:55:15.820]  He's checking his calendar.
[01:55:15.820 --> 01:55:16.820]  Yeah.
[01:55:16.820 --> 01:55:22.820]  Today's the 20th, the next training that we will be doing will be March 28th
[01:55:22.820 --> 01:55:24.820]  and March 29th.
[01:55:24.820 --> 01:55:27.820]  Okay, I'll put it on my calendar.
[01:55:27.820 --> 01:55:31.820]  And I guarantee you it will be worth every penny.
[01:55:31.820 --> 01:55:32.820]  I'm sure.
[01:55:32.820 --> 01:55:37.820]  Just the information I got tonight is worth it.
[01:55:37.820 --> 01:55:38.820]  Well, good.
[01:55:38.820 --> 01:55:39.820]  Glad to hear that.
[01:55:39.820 --> 01:55:47.820]  Yeah, it was normally a eight-hour or a 12-hour seminar, and I've just condensed it
[01:55:47.820 --> 01:55:51.820]  into ordinary two five-hour trainings.
[01:55:51.820 --> 01:55:52.820]  Okay.
[01:55:52.820 --> 01:55:53.820]  So.
[01:55:53.820 --> 01:55:54.820]  Yeah.
[01:55:54.820 --> 01:55:59.820]  All right, so if you don't have any other questions, it's been a pleasure talking to you.
[01:55:59.820 --> 01:56:03.820]  And Steve, let's take our next caller.
[01:56:03.820 --> 01:56:04.820]  All right.
[01:56:04.820 --> 01:56:05.820]  Thank you, fellas.
[01:56:05.820 --> 01:56:06.820]  Thank you, Bernice.
[01:56:06.820 --> 01:56:07.820]  Bye.
[01:56:07.820 --> 01:56:08.820]  Bye-bye.
[01:56:08.820 --> 01:56:11.820]  Now we'll go to Chris in Washington.
[01:56:11.820 --> 01:56:12.820]  Hello, Chris.
[01:56:12.820 --> 01:56:14.820]  What do you got for us tonight?
[01:56:14.820 --> 01:56:15.820]  Hi.
[01:56:15.820 --> 01:56:16.820]  Hi.
[01:56:16.820 --> 01:56:17.820]  Say it again.
[01:56:17.820 --> 01:56:22.820]  You guys hear me okay?
[01:56:22.820 --> 01:56:23.820]  Hello?
[01:56:23.820 --> 01:56:24.820]  Yes, sir.
[01:56:24.820 --> 01:56:25.820]  Just fine.
[01:56:25.820 --> 01:56:26.820]  What do you got for us tonight?
[01:56:26.820 --> 01:56:27.820]  Oh, okay.
[01:56:27.820 --> 01:56:28.820]  Great.
[01:56:28.820 --> 01:56:36.820]  Yes, I was working with Randy a couple years ago on Remedies in Real Estate Member Scholar
[01:56:36.820 --> 01:56:37.820]  Program.
[01:56:37.820 --> 01:56:38.820]  Okay.
[01:56:38.820 --> 01:56:44.820]  And kind of been lax the past couple years with that, and kind of didn't follow up with
[01:56:44.820 --> 01:56:50.820]  it, but I'll explain the situation regarding my real estate issue very quickly.
[01:56:50.820 --> 01:56:59.820]  So, in 2006, I bought a condo here in Washington State, and the lender at the time was RMC
[01:56:59.820 --> 01:57:00.820]  Vanguard.
[01:57:00.820 --> 01:57:07.820]  And so, I got a loan through them, and ever since then, I've been paying current on my
[01:57:07.820 --> 01:57:11.020]  payments every single month, religiously.
[01:57:11.020 --> 01:57:18.820]  And the thing is, when I started my first payment, it was to JPMorgan Chase, not to
[01:57:18.820 --> 01:57:20.140]  RMC Vanguard.
[01:57:20.140 --> 01:57:28.020]  And so, back in 2011, I went to the county record, looked up my parcel information.
[01:57:28.020 --> 01:57:31.340]  There's no assignment whatsoever on my condo.
[01:57:31.340 --> 01:57:35.180]  And then, again today, I went down there and looked again, same thing.
[01:57:35.180 --> 01:57:38.620]  There's absolutely no assignment in the county record.
[01:57:38.620 --> 01:57:43.100]  And so, I've been talking a little bit with David Lewis recently, who's with Remedies
[01:57:43.100 --> 01:57:44.100]  in Real Estate.
[01:57:44.100 --> 01:57:51.220]  And he said to call in to your show tonight, and kind of explain my situation, which I'm
[01:57:51.220 --> 01:57:52.220]  doing now.
[01:57:52.220 --> 01:57:56.580]  And so, just wanted to get an idea of what should I do next.
[01:57:56.580 --> 01:57:57.580]  Okay.
[01:57:57.580 --> 01:58:01.980]  I hear the music in the background, that means we're going to the top of the hour break.
[01:58:01.980 --> 01:58:07.220]  Just very briefly, what you've discussed, what I can get from what you've said is that
[01:58:07.220 --> 01:58:12.220]  you've had a change of mortgage servicers, not necessarily a change in the real party
[01:58:12.220 --> 01:58:13.220]  of interest.
[01:58:13.220 --> 01:58:14.220]  A big difference.
[01:58:14.220 --> 01:58:15.960]  A very big difference.
[01:58:15.960 --> 01:58:22.140]  One party is entitled to collect, the other party is entitled to receive payments.
[01:58:22.140 --> 01:58:26.140]  But we'll get deeper into that on the other side of this break, folks.
[01:58:26.140 --> 01:58:33.020]  1-2-646-1984 is the number to dial if you'd like to join in conversation, ask questions,
[01:58:33.020 --> 01:58:34.620]  offer comments.
[01:58:34.620 --> 01:58:39.140]  We'll be back on the other side of this break with more from Chris in Washington.
[01:58:39.140 --> 01:58:46.140]  Until then, please go by the radio website and take advantage of all the great offers
[01:58:46.140 --> 01:58:47.140]  there.
[01:58:47.140 --> 01:58:48.140]  Folks, we'll be back.
[01:58:48.140 --> 01:58:49.140]  Stay tuned.
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[01:59:48.900 --> 01:59:55.820]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, logosradionetwork.com.