ROL_2013-11-08_16k_Hr1-2.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:07.000]  This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates.
[00:07.000 --> 00:09.000]  Online at thelibertybeat.com.
[00:09.000 --> 00:14.000]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Friday, November 8th, 2013.
[00:14.000 --> 00:17.000]  Gold opened today at $1,295.
[00:17.000 --> 00:20.000]  Silver opened at $21.48.
[00:20.000 --> 00:23.000]  And Bitcoin is trading at $291.
[00:23.000 --> 00:26.000]  Support for the Liberty Beat comes from Brave New Books,
[00:26.000 --> 00:31.000]  your local source for One World Way, Hangy Tangerine 2.0, and Clearly Filtered.
[00:31.000 --> 00:36.000]  In Austin at 1904 Guadalupe Street and online at bravenewbookstore.com.
[00:36.000 --> 00:39.000]  Support also comes from Austin Animal Clinic,
[00:39.000 --> 00:42.000]  celebrating their 59th year of quality compassionate pet care.
[00:42.000 --> 00:45.000]  In Austin at 4330 North Lamar Boulevard.
[00:45.000 --> 00:52.000]  By phone at 512-453-6686 and online at AustinAnimalClinicInc.com.
[00:52.000 --> 00:56.000]  And now the news, more than $10 million each year.
[00:56.000 --> 01:02.000]  That's how much the CIA is paying AT&T for access to the company's phone records.
[01:02.000 --> 01:05.000]  A report published by the Washington Times Thursday
[01:05.000 --> 01:08.000]  says that while most of the calls were made overseas,
[01:08.000 --> 01:12.000]  some made to and from the United States are included with the collected data.
[01:12.000 --> 01:19.000]  The Times states that the company participation in the plot is volunteering.
[01:19.000 --> 01:22.000]  An Arkansas police officer is at the center of a lawsuit
[01:22.000 --> 01:26.000]  filed by a woman who claims she was tasered for refusing to show her breasts.
[01:26.000 --> 01:30.000]  The New York Daily News says Ashley Bennett claims that Officer Brandon Carter
[01:30.000 --> 01:34.000]  came to her workplace in uniform on December 11, 2011.
[01:34.000 --> 01:38.000]  It was then that he allegedly ordered her to let him look at her breasts.
[01:38.000 --> 01:41.000]  Bennett declined and claims she was chased around the building by Carter,
[01:41.000 --> 01:45.000]  who, when catching her, tased Bennett numerous times.
[01:45.000 --> 01:47.000]  She says it was not his first looted dance towards her.
[01:47.000 --> 01:54.000]  She's now suing Carter and the city of Haskell, Arkansas, in federal court.
[01:54.000 --> 01:59.000]  A new live videocast that will focus on solutions is set to launch on Thursday,
[01:59.000 --> 02:02.000]  November 14, 8 p.m. Central.
[02:02.000 --> 02:07.000]  The Conscious Resistance Live will be hosted by Houston-based community activist Derek Brose
[02:07.000 --> 02:12.000]  and place a strong emphasis on community members working on positive action.
[02:12.000 --> 02:14.000]  The program will run regularly on Sunday nights,
[02:14.000 --> 02:18.000]  covering topical news stories, as well as segments focusing on gardening,
[02:18.000 --> 02:22.000]  music, meditation, and ideas for creating change in your community.
[02:22.000 --> 02:26.000]  The debut episode will feature recently released activist Adam Kocash.
[02:26.000 --> 02:29.000]  The program can be found at theconsciousresistance.com.
[02:29.000 --> 02:32.000]  Support for the Liberty Beat comes from Cabo Bops.
[02:32.000 --> 02:37.000]  Check out their new location at 29th and Rio Grande, between Guadalupe and Lamar.
[02:37.000 --> 02:43.000]  Call them at 512-432-1111 or online at cabobobs.com.
[02:43.000 --> 02:47.000]  Support also comes from Central Texas Gun Works, CHL Courses,
[02:47.000 --> 02:50.000]  self-defense training, and firearm sales.
[02:50.000 --> 02:53.000]  Online, centraltexasgunworks.com.
[02:53.000 --> 02:57.000]  This is the Liberty Beat for Friday, November 8, 2013.
[02:57.000 --> 03:00.000]  Check out the website at thelibertybeat.com.
[03:00.000 --> 03:13.000]  The Liberty Beat for Friday, November 8, 2013.
[03:30.000 --> 03:32.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:32.000 --> 03:34.000]  Bad boys, bad boys.
[03:34.000 --> 03:35.000]  What you gonna do?
[03:35.000 --> 03:38.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:38.000 --> 03:41.000]  When you were eight and you had bad traits,
[03:41.000 --> 03:43.000]  you'd go to school and learn the golden rules.
[03:43.000 --> 03:46.000]  So why are you acting like a bloody fool?
[03:46.000 --> 03:49.000]  If you get hot, then you must get cool.
[03:49.000 --> 03:50.000]  Bad boys, bad boys.
[03:50.000 --> 03:52.000]  What you gonna do?
[03:52.000 --> 03:54.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:54.000 --> 03:56.000]  Bad boys, bad boys.
[03:56.000 --> 03:57.000]  What you gonna do?
[03:57.000 --> 04:00.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[04:00.000 --> 04:02.000]  Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
[04:02.000 --> 04:05.000]  I'm a guest host, Steve Skidmore.
[04:05.000 --> 04:07.000]  I have with me tonight Joe Esquivel,
[04:07.000 --> 04:12.000]  and Randy is down in Mexico getting teeth pulled.
[04:12.000 --> 04:15.000]  It's about time somebody does.
[04:15.000 --> 04:17.000]  They haven't talked straight in a long time.
[04:17.000 --> 04:24.000]  But anyway, tonight we're going to keep in the tradition
[04:24.000 --> 04:27.000]  of rural law radio here as of late,
[04:27.000 --> 04:30.000]  and for the first hour,
[04:30.000 --> 04:32.000]  I think Joe and I are going to leave the phones off.
[04:32.000 --> 04:38.000]  Tonight, since Randy's area is predominantly foreclosure
[04:38.000 --> 04:41.000]  and due process,
[04:41.000 --> 04:45.000]  we're going to leave those issues kind of closed tonight.
[04:45.000 --> 04:50.000]  Joe and I would like to focus strictly on foreclosure issues
[04:50.000 --> 04:52.000]  and mortgage-related issues.
[04:52.000 --> 04:59.000]  So we'll turn the telephones back on at the top of the hour.
[04:59.000 --> 05:02.000]  So if you have any questions as we go through tonight's dialogue,
[05:02.000 --> 05:04.000]  please feel free to write them down, call them in,
[05:04.000 --> 05:06.000]  and we'll see what we can do to answer them.
[05:06.000 --> 05:09.000]  So Joe, you're holding a piece of paper over there.
[05:09.000 --> 05:10.000]  What you got?
[05:10.000 --> 05:15.000]  Well, you know, right now we've been talking about
[05:15.000 --> 05:18.000]  we've been changing what we've been putting out.
[05:18.000 --> 05:22.000]  What I've been putting out is a product that I created
[05:22.000 --> 05:25.000]  called a chain of title analysis.
[05:25.000 --> 05:33.000]  And in my opinion, it is the best product that is out there
[05:33.000 --> 05:38.000]  for showing what was to be done, what was and what was not done.
[05:38.000 --> 05:42.000]  Factually, the actual work product is in the form of a sworn affidavit,
[05:42.000 --> 05:43.000]  is that correct?
[05:43.000 --> 05:44.000]  Correct.
[05:44.000 --> 05:50.000]  However, it was still needing some panache.
[05:50.000 --> 05:52.000]  It needed that little extra.
[05:52.000 --> 06:01.000]  So for the past week and a half, my partner and I, Damian Emholtz,
[06:01.000 --> 06:09.000]  have been working on recreating what we already have.
[06:09.000 --> 06:11.000]  Polishing it up.
[06:11.000 --> 06:19.000]  Finishing it up, taking that rough diamond and polishing it
[06:19.000 --> 06:24.000]  and putting forth an educational piece
[06:24.000 --> 06:29.000]  that everyone will be able to associate with.
[06:29.000 --> 06:31.000]  Because the last couple of months,
[06:31.000 --> 06:36.000]  I keep hearing again and again and again, Steve,
[06:36.000 --> 06:41.000]  PNC is coming forth to foreclose.
[06:41.000 --> 06:46.000]  Joe, Wells Fargo is coming forth to foreclose.
[06:46.000 --> 06:54.000]  And nobody has a clue who these parties are.
[06:54.000 --> 06:59.000]  The question you should be asking is, are they Pete?
[06:59.000 --> 07:01.000]  Who is Pete?
[07:01.000 --> 07:07.000]  Pete is person entitled to enforce.
[07:07.000 --> 07:09.000]  PETE.
[07:09.000 --> 07:10.000]  Correct.
[07:10.000 --> 07:11.000]  Or party entitled to enforce.
[07:11.000 --> 07:15.000]  Party entitled to enforce, person entitled.
[07:15.000 --> 07:21.000]  Because the truth is that in 99% of these instances,
[07:21.000 --> 07:25.000]  Steve, that party is not the proper party to come forth with this action.
[07:25.000 --> 07:26.000]  Right.
[07:26.000 --> 07:36.000]  So while there is a perceived deficiency of default
[07:36.000 --> 07:44.000]  on the part of the tangible obligor, the borrower,
[07:44.000 --> 07:47.000]  it's just perceived.
[07:47.000 --> 07:54.000]  You know, one of the things that you and I look at is, was there another default?
[07:54.000 --> 08:01.000]  And if so, who defaulted first, Steve?
[08:01.000 --> 08:04.000]  Chances are it's going to be the mortgage originator,
[08:04.000 --> 08:10.000]  and he will have done so either at closing, just before closing, or right after closing.
[08:10.000 --> 08:14.000]  Usually if you're talking about TILA, RESPA,
[08:14.000 --> 08:22.000]  you'll be going to what is normally found in Covenant 16 of the Deed of Trust for mortgage,
[08:22.000 --> 08:32.000]  in where you find a section, it's depending on whether you've got an average mortgage or some hybrid.
[08:32.000 --> 08:37.000]  It'll usually be Covenant 16 or Covenant 14 in some cases.
[08:37.000 --> 08:40.000]  Governing law and severability.
[08:40.000 --> 08:46.000]  Governing law in where most every deed of trust that I've read states,
[08:46.000 --> 08:53.000]  this security instrument shall be governed by federal law and the law of the jurisdiction in which the property is located.
[08:53.000 --> 08:55.000]  That's state law.
[08:55.000 --> 08:58.000]  So you got two bodies of law.
[08:58.000 --> 09:02.000]  This gives the banks two opportunities to mess up.
[09:02.000 --> 09:04.000]  You know, like how you put that.
[09:04.000 --> 09:05.000]  I mean, think about it.
[09:05.000 --> 09:12.000]  You know, they themselves say, okay, when you went and got your, when you bought your house,
[09:12.000 --> 09:16.000]  did you write the documents that you signed or were they presented to you?
[09:16.000 --> 09:18.000]  Oh, no, they wrote the documents for me.
[09:18.000 --> 09:19.000]  They wrote the documents.
[09:19.000 --> 09:20.000]  I was on school.
[09:20.000 --> 09:22.000]  They're the one that put that covenant in there, right?
[09:22.000 --> 09:23.000]  Correct.
[09:23.000 --> 09:30.000]  And since they're the ones that drafted that and offered it to you for its creation by your signature,
[09:30.000 --> 09:38.000]  you would think that they intended to go by and obey all the federal laws and state laws of the jurisdiction,
[09:38.000 --> 09:41.000]  you know, where the property is located, right?
[09:41.000 --> 09:45.000]  Yeah, that was my understanding.
[09:45.000 --> 09:46.000]  Okay.
[09:46.000 --> 09:52.000]  Now, if in the drafting of these documents, let's go to federal law, Truth in Lending Act,
[09:52.000 --> 09:55.000]  Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act.
[09:55.000 --> 09:57.000]  You look at how this thing is put together.
[09:57.000 --> 10:00.000]  Did the broker get too much on a yield spread premium?
[10:00.000 --> 10:04.000]  Was the yield spread premium done right?
[10:04.000 --> 10:07.000]  Did they give you all of the proper disclosures?
[10:07.000 --> 10:12.000]  All of these little issues found in TILA and RESPA, did they do all that?
[10:12.000 --> 10:17.000]  If they did not, or if they did something they were told not to or should not have done,
[10:17.000 --> 10:20.000]  that is a violation of federal statute.
[10:20.000 --> 10:23.000]  They've already defaulted on it first.
[10:23.000 --> 10:26.000]  What is the definition of default?
[10:26.000 --> 10:27.000]  I don't know.
[10:27.000 --> 10:28.000]  Let's find out.
[10:28.000 --> 10:29.000]  What is the definition of default?
[10:29.000 --> 10:30.000]  Let me get my glasses.
[10:30.000 --> 10:31.000]  And because...
[10:31.000 --> 10:32.000]  A lot of dictionary.
[10:32.000 --> 10:35.000]  I've read it a couple of times, but I don't trust my memory.
[10:35.000 --> 10:40.000]  What they claim is default, and what we are claiming is default, are two different things.
[10:40.000 --> 10:44.000]  Well, it is kind of the same thing by definition.
[10:44.000 --> 10:45.000]  Okay.
[10:45.000 --> 10:48.000]  Though there's a promise to pay, and if you don't...
[10:48.000 --> 10:53.000]  If you go bad on your promise, you've breached that covenant.
[10:53.000 --> 11:01.000]  But it says here in Black's Law Dictionary on Second Pocket Edition ID at page 184.
[11:01.000 --> 11:03.000]  It states default.
[11:03.000 --> 11:09.000]  The omission or failure to perform a legal or contractual duty.
[11:09.000 --> 11:14.000]  Well, okay, they wrote the contract.
[11:14.000 --> 11:20.000]  They said, you and I, both parties are going to abide by federal law and state law.
[11:20.000 --> 11:22.000]  But in this document, there are already...
[11:22.000 --> 11:26.000]  Before you sign it, there are already federal violations in it.
[11:26.000 --> 11:27.000]  So they've already gone...
[11:27.000 --> 11:32.000]  They've already defaulted by definition on Covenant 14.
[11:32.000 --> 11:40.000]  Now, if they sell in Covenant 20, and if you've got something other than a...
[11:40.000 --> 11:47.000]  If you've got a conventional loan, something other than, let's say, an FHA, you'll have a Covenant 20.
[11:47.000 --> 11:51.000]  Covenant 20 will state a sale of a note.
[11:51.000 --> 12:00.000]  It will say in here, this note or a portion of it, together with this security instrument,
[12:00.000 --> 12:04.000]  can be sold to a third party without having to tell you guys about it,
[12:04.000 --> 12:09.000]  without having to tell anybody about it or telling the homeowner about it, the borrower.
[12:09.000 --> 12:12.000]  So that's exactly what they do.
[12:12.000 --> 12:19.000]  They strip out that promise to pay from the note, and they sell that to a securities investor.
[12:19.000 --> 12:23.000]  That's put in a remit, a pool, a securities pool.
[12:23.000 --> 12:25.000]  So they've separated that.
[12:25.000 --> 12:29.000]  Now they're going to transfer what's left to someone else.
[12:29.000 --> 12:32.000]  That's less than the entire instrument.
[12:32.000 --> 12:36.000]  Right, but stop there for a second, because you brought up a good idea of what you just said.
[12:36.000 --> 12:39.000]  There's also a trap in that, and I'm sure that's what Joe...
[12:39.000 --> 12:47.000]  So now, before that, as Steve had mentioned, they strip out the payment intangible,
[12:47.000 --> 12:50.000]  which is the promise to pay, and that's legal.
[12:50.000 --> 12:51.000]  They can do that.
[12:51.000 --> 12:53.000]  And there's two parts of that.
[12:53.000 --> 12:57.000]  There's the promise, and there's the dollar amount.
[12:57.000 --> 12:59.000]  Okay?
[12:59.000 --> 13:03.000]  The promise is worth something, because that's future.
[13:03.000 --> 13:05.000]  Future what? Future amount.
[13:05.000 --> 13:07.000]  Future economic benefits.
[13:07.000 --> 13:08.000]  Right.
[13:08.000 --> 13:18.000]  So you've got two elements of one thing here that's now missing from this physical, tangible instrument.
[13:18.000 --> 13:19.000]  Right.
[13:19.000 --> 13:28.000]  And what is done, though, Steve, it's similar to, you own a strip shopping center downtown Austin.
[13:28.000 --> 13:29.000]  Okay.
[13:29.000 --> 13:34.000]  And this small strip shopping center has got five stores.
[13:34.000 --> 13:35.000]  All right?
[13:35.000 --> 13:36.000]  Okay.
[13:36.000 --> 13:41.000]  And you've hit hard times, and you've got competitors calling you.
[13:41.000 --> 13:48.000]  All right, so now, one morning you wake up and you have an epiphany.
[13:48.000 --> 13:50.000]  Wait a minute.
[13:50.000 --> 13:53.000]  I'm broke, but I'm not broke.
[13:53.000 --> 13:56.000]  I have five tenants with leases.
[13:56.000 --> 13:57.000]  And they're all paying me.
[13:57.000 --> 13:58.000]  They're all paying you.
[13:58.000 --> 13:59.000]  I've got 10-year leases.
[13:59.000 --> 14:01.000]  You know what?
[14:01.000 --> 14:04.000]  I'm going to sell the leases.
[14:04.000 --> 14:06.000]  I'm going to keep the building, though.
[14:06.000 --> 14:07.000]  Correct.
[14:07.000 --> 14:08.000]  You own the brick and mortar building.
[14:08.000 --> 14:10.000]  That's the tangible.
[14:10.000 --> 14:14.000]  So now, it's like factoring.
[14:14.000 --> 14:15.000]  You can do it.
[14:15.000 --> 14:19.000]  You can strip it, you can divvy it up however you want.
[14:19.000 --> 14:20.000]  It's done all day long.
[14:20.000 --> 14:21.000]  All day long.
[14:21.000 --> 14:22.000]  All right.
[14:22.000 --> 14:34.000]  Now, when they strip the value, which is the promise to pay from the tangible promissory note.
[14:34.000 --> 14:35.000]  All right.
[14:35.000 --> 14:36.000]  That's fine.
[14:36.000 --> 14:54.000]  However, what is done is that the tangible obligee takes that payment stream and in selling
[14:54.000 --> 15:07.000]  that payment stream, he creates an intangible obligation that is sold to an intangible obligee.
[15:07.000 --> 15:14.000]  Now, that intangible obligation which is created off of the payment stream of the tangible
[15:14.000 --> 15:21.000]  promissory note is all that is sold.
[15:21.000 --> 15:31.000]  It is not negotiated, transferred, and delivered along with the tangible promissory note is
[15:31.000 --> 15:34.000]  just a separate transaction.
[15:34.000 --> 15:41.000]  And for the most part, there is no evidence of this, Steve.
[15:41.000 --> 15:45.000]  There is no evidence into public record.
[15:45.000 --> 15:53.000]  There is no evidence showing that negotiation took place because what happened was that
[15:53.000 --> 16:02.000]  within the first 24 to 72 hours of that tangible promissory note getting signed and that security
[16:02.000 --> 16:07.000]  instrument being sent to the counter recorder's office getting index filed and recorded and
[16:07.000 --> 16:10.000]  being sent back to the original lender.
[16:10.000 --> 16:12.000]  All right.
[16:12.000 --> 16:21.000]  Once that security instrument came back, it was scanned and a digitized copy was made,
[16:21.000 --> 16:23.000]  a copy.
[16:23.000 --> 16:32.000]  And this copy that was created was called an e-note and a copy of the security instrument
[16:32.000 --> 16:37.000]  was created as well and that was an e-mortgage.
[16:37.000 --> 16:41.000]  And these are just transferable records.
[16:41.000 --> 16:46.000]  They are not the tangible file.
[16:46.000 --> 16:48.000]  Joe, I hear the music sounds like we're going out.
[16:48.000 --> 16:53.000]  Folks, we're going to leave the phone lines off until the top of the hour.
[16:53.000 --> 16:56.000]  This is Steve Skidmore and Joe Esquivel, Rule of Law Radio.
[16:56.000 --> 17:00.000]  We'll be back in just a second.
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[19:01.000 --> 19:25.000]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, the LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[19:25.000 --> 19:28.000]  Hi, this is Joe Esquivel and Steve Skidmore.
[19:28.000 --> 19:32.000]  Rule of Law Radio tonight.
[19:32.000 --> 19:34.000]  Randy's playing hooky.
[19:34.000 --> 19:35.000]  He is.
[19:35.000 --> 19:39.000]  He's got a night off complaining about he had to have four teeth pulled or something.
[19:39.000 --> 19:42.000]  You know, Steve, I think that was an excuse.
[19:42.000 --> 19:44.000]  That's it.
[19:44.000 --> 19:51.000]  He's probably loaded up on morphine, spice rum, doseques.
[19:51.000 --> 19:56.000]  Well, being done here in Mexico, if you don't get him at least a shot of tequila, he's wasting his time.
[19:56.000 --> 19:59.000]  He's probably chasing a damn donkey.
[19:59.000 --> 20:00.000]  Easy.
[20:00.000 --> 20:01.000]  We'll not go there.
[20:01.000 --> 20:02.000]  We'll not go there.
[20:02.000 --> 20:03.000]  Okay.
[20:03.000 --> 20:04.000]  All right.
[20:04.000 --> 20:05.000]  So we're talking about...
[20:05.000 --> 20:06.000]  I sure hope he's not listening.
[20:06.000 --> 20:07.000]  Or checks the archive.
[20:07.000 --> 20:10.000]  The intangible records.
[20:10.000 --> 20:14.000]  We're talking about e-notes.
[20:14.000 --> 20:15.000]  Excuse me.
[20:15.000 --> 20:17.000]  If you don't mind, let me clarify.
[20:17.000 --> 20:21.000]  There's a lot of confusing language in the mortgage world.
[20:21.000 --> 20:26.000]  Where is Joe getting this tangible, intangible language?
[20:26.000 --> 20:28.000]  Go to UCC.
[20:28.000 --> 20:32.000]  It's all over Article 9 of the UCC.
[20:32.000 --> 20:33.000]  Read Article 9.
[20:33.000 --> 20:40.000]  You'll have a pretty good understanding of the difference between what Joe's talking about in the tangible and intangible world.
[20:40.000 --> 20:42.000]  Tangible, keep in mind, is something you can touch.
[20:42.000 --> 20:44.000]  A piece of paper, you can touch it.
[20:44.000 --> 20:47.000]  Something intangible in that document is the revenue stream.
[20:47.000 --> 20:49.000]  You cannot touch that.
[20:49.000 --> 20:50.000]  Not physical.
[20:50.000 --> 20:51.000]  It's like electricity.
[20:51.000 --> 20:52.000]  Exactly.
[20:52.000 --> 20:55.000]  But now I'll tell you what.
[20:55.000 --> 20:57.000]  You will know when it hits you.
[20:57.000 --> 20:58.000]  Oh, yeah.
[20:58.000 --> 20:59.000]  That's no kidding.
[20:59.000 --> 21:01.000]  But I didn't mean to distract.
[21:01.000 --> 21:03.000]  No, that was perfect.
[21:03.000 --> 21:05.000]  Because many of the people...
[21:05.000 --> 21:08.000]  I'm at 30,000 feet looking down.
[21:08.000 --> 21:13.000]  And many times, Steve, I forget that not everybody's up there flying with me.
[21:13.000 --> 21:14.000]  Right.
[21:14.000 --> 21:15.000]  I do the same thing.
[21:15.000 --> 21:20.000]  I was talking some mortgage issues with a lady one day on the telephone.
[21:20.000 --> 21:24.000]  She said, Mr., listening to you is like trying to drink from a fire hydrant.
[21:24.000 --> 21:25.000]  I'm sorry.
[21:25.000 --> 21:27.000]  You want me to slow down?
[21:27.000 --> 21:29.000]  I concur.
[21:29.000 --> 21:30.000]  All right.
[21:30.000 --> 21:33.000]  So we're talking about e-notes, e-mortgages.
[21:33.000 --> 21:45.000]  And the truth is, Steve, is that there are no laws pertaining to negotiation of e-notes.
[21:45.000 --> 21:50.000]  Now, while we do have...
[21:50.000 --> 21:51.000]  I don't know why.
[21:51.000 --> 21:53.000]  That's why it's getting swapped on Wall Street.
[21:53.000 --> 21:54.000]  Well, you have to understand.
[21:54.000 --> 21:59.000]  I mean, e-notes fall under Article 8.
[21:59.000 --> 22:00.000]  You can do that.
[22:00.000 --> 22:01.000]  That's fine.
[22:01.000 --> 22:03.000]  But one of the things...
[22:03.000 --> 22:04.000]  Let's talk about...
[22:04.000 --> 22:05.000]  Okay.
[22:05.000 --> 22:09.000]  Let's talk about the elements of a mortgage loan instrument and how they are governed.
[22:09.000 --> 22:14.000]  Because this is what we've been working on for, I don't know, this past week.
[22:14.000 --> 22:17.000]  And this will clear up.
[22:17.000 --> 22:24.000]  So if it sounds a little overly complicated, go back into the archives and you can re-listen to this.
[22:24.000 --> 22:26.000]  So let's go over some definitions.
[22:26.000 --> 22:37.000]  One, tangible promissory note, tangible, is a writing in tangible form, signed unconditional
[22:37.000 --> 22:45.000]  and identifying an indebtedness, an unsecured promise by one party, the maker or promiser,
[22:45.000 --> 22:56.000]  to another, the payee or promisee or tangible obligee, that commits the maker, the debtor,
[22:56.000 --> 23:07.000]  or the tangible obligor, to pay a specified sum on demand or on a fixed or determinable date.
[23:07.000 --> 23:17.000]  If the paper promissory note is to be a secured indebtedness, then the security instrument is also
[23:17.000 --> 23:21.000]  identified within the paper promissory note.
[23:21.000 --> 23:29.000]  The paper promissory note is governed by a uniform Article 3 or your state's equivalence.
[23:29.000 --> 23:39.000]  The paper promissory note is not governed by E-Sign Act or UE Etta, and that's under 15 U.S.C. 7003,
[23:39.000 --> 23:46.000]  which clearly excludes item governed under Uniform Commercial Code Article 3 or the state's equivalent,
[23:46.000 --> 23:52.000]  such indebtedness can only be in paper, tangible form.
[23:52.000 --> 24:01.000]  So what that means is that your tangible promissory note falls under UCC Article 3 or your state's equivalence.
[24:01.000 --> 24:17.000]  While the banks and many parties claim that UE Etta and E-Sign, which are signature acts pertaining to electronic documents,
[24:17.000 --> 24:28.000]  are also eligible, they're not. E-Sign and UE Etta only pertains to real property or to personal property and not real property.
[24:28.000 --> 24:34.000]  So personal property being something that you would personally own as a personable item.
[24:34.000 --> 24:36.000]  Like a note.
[24:36.000 --> 24:41.000]  Correct. But it does not pertain to real property such as real estate.
[24:41.000 --> 24:45.000]  Right. The house is the real property. The land it sits on is the real property.
[24:45.000 --> 24:46.000]  Correct.
[24:46.000 --> 24:48.000]  So personal property is the note and the security instrument.
[24:48.000 --> 24:53.000]  Those two instruments you sign and give up for ransom on the day of closing.
[24:53.000 --> 24:56.000]  Well, personal property can be TVs, sofas.
[24:56.000 --> 24:57.000]  Sure. Cars.
[24:57.000 --> 24:58.000]  Personal items. Yeah.
[24:58.000 --> 24:59.000]  Yeah.
[24:59.000 --> 25:09.000]  All right. So let's talk about the promissory note, the intangible E-note, and the intangible payment obligation.
[25:09.000 --> 25:21.000]  Okay. An electronic transferable record, which is created during securitization and signed in accordance with the E-Sign Act that commits the maker,
[25:21.000 --> 25:33.000]  in this case the account debtor, or the intangible obligor to pay a specified sum on demand in accordance with the contract not governed by UCC Article III.
[25:33.000 --> 25:43.000]  Transferable records are governed by UCC Article VIII and the security interest securing the security instrument by UCC Article IX.
[25:43.000 --> 25:54.000]  Okay. So what I'm talking about here is the electronic note which they create because they can sell that all day long.
[25:54.000 --> 25:56.000]  Okay. Now.
[25:56.000 --> 25:58.000]  Wouldn't that what MERS is for?
[25:58.000 --> 26:01.000]  No. MERS is electronic registry.
[26:01.000 --> 26:02.000]  Right.
[26:02.000 --> 26:03.000]  Period. Okay.
[26:03.000 --> 26:05.000]  Now. It's a library.
[26:05.000 --> 26:24.000]  It's a library. Good. Now, while they would love to have that registry fall under Article VIII, because their intent was that it be run similar to the way that Canada runs its registry.
[26:24.000 --> 26:25.000]  Okay.
[26:25.000 --> 26:26.000]  But it's not.
[26:26.000 --> 26:30.000]  Right. It's a private registry. You have to be a member.
[26:30.000 --> 26:37.000]  All right. So a registry versus your county recorder's office is night and day.
[26:37.000 --> 26:43.000]  The county recorder's office is giving constructive notice to the world.
[26:43.000 --> 26:45.000]  Everyone has access to it.
[26:45.000 --> 26:46.000]  Yep.
[26:46.000 --> 26:56.000]  All right. So, when you give constructive notice to the world, the whole purpose, you can go back decades, go back to the 1600s.
[26:56.000 --> 27:02.000]  All right. When it was recorded into public record, 1700s, 1800s.
[27:02.000 --> 27:10.000]  The person that was doing the recording was recording for tax purposes. Who is the owner of the property?
[27:10.000 --> 27:15.000]  Who do I collect taxes from?
[27:15.000 --> 27:16.000]  That's the difference.
[27:16.000 --> 27:28.000]  So today, MERS, all they do is a registry. You register it on there. You can or you cannot. You don't have to.
[27:28.000 --> 27:36.000]  And it sells records, okay, transferable records, which are governed under Article VIII.
[27:36.000 --> 27:40.000]  And that's all they are. There's records. It's not the real deal.
[27:40.000 --> 27:41.000]  It's intangible.
[27:41.000 --> 27:46.000]  It's an intent. You can't physically possess it.
[27:46.000 --> 27:56.000]  The only way pursuant to the PEP report that came out, I believe, in 2011, October 2011,
[27:56.000 --> 28:06.000]  there was a response from the PEP report to the Uniform Commercial Code editorial board in which they stated,
[28:06.000 --> 28:17.000]  no one can physically possess the secured interest of a security instrument.
[28:17.000 --> 28:32.000]  The only way that one can physically possess the secured interest of a tangible security instrument is by properly perfecting it.
[28:32.000 --> 28:35.000]  And that would mean into public record.
[28:35.000 --> 28:45.000]  Now, while there is a temporary perfection afforded by the Uniform Commercial Code pursuant to 9312,
[28:45.000 --> 28:50.000]  or your state's equivalent, Steve, it's for a period of 20 days.
[28:50.000 --> 28:51.000]  Okay.
[28:51.000 --> 29:09.000]  So what that means is upon negotiation, transfer, and delivery of your tangible promissory note, along with the intangible obligation, which is your promise to pay, all right,
[29:09.000 --> 29:22.000]  party A would release its ownership and that beneficial interest, and they would transfer through an assignment to party B their interest.
[29:22.000 --> 29:26.000]  And they would have 20 days in order to do this.
[29:26.000 --> 29:37.000]  Now, by operation of law on day 21, if you were not a properly perfected party, it becomes an unsecured obligation.
[29:37.000 --> 29:39.000]  I would like to lean on that.
[29:39.000 --> 29:43.000]  And what happens when Humpty Dumpty falls off the wall?
[29:43.000 --> 29:48.000]  He breaks, and all the king's horses and all the king's men are not going to put him back together.
[29:48.000 --> 29:52.000]  Coming up to break, folks, we'll be right back after this.
[29:52.000 --> 29:54.000]  This is Steve Skidmore.
[29:54.000 --> 29:57.000]  Joe Esquivel and Randy's taking the night off.
[29:57.000 --> 29:59.000]  We'll be right back after these few messages.
[29:59.000 --> 30:02.000]  Stay with us.
[30:02.000 --> 30:10.000]  Well, folks, Macy's and Bloomingdale's have announced they'll begin tracking individual clothing items with radio frequency identification tags.
[30:10.000 --> 30:15.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll tell you why this is a declaration of war on our privacy.
[30:15.000 --> 30:23.000]  Your search engine is watching you, recording all your searches and creating a massive database of your personal information.
[30:23.000 --> 30:24.000]  That's creepy.
[30:24.000 --> 30:26.000]  But it doesn't have to be that way.
[30:26.000 --> 30:29.000]  Startpage.com is the world's most private search engine.
[30:29.000 --> 30:35.000]  Startpage doesn't store your IP address, make a record of your searches, or use tracking cookies, and they're third-party certified.
[30:35.000 --> 30:39.000]  If you don't like big brother spying on you, start over with Startpage.
[30:39.000 --> 30:42.000]  Great search results and total privacy.
[30:42.000 --> 30:45.000]  Startpage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[30:45.000 --> 30:51.000]  For years, corporate America has been secretly working to embed tiny tracking devices in consumer products.
[30:51.000 --> 31:00.000]  Now Macy's and Bloomingdale's will begin placing radio frequency identification tags into a third of their merchandise in all of their stores.
[31:00.000 --> 31:02.000]  This is huge news, folks.
[31:02.000 --> 31:11.000]  The broad adoption of this invasive technology means not only will consumers be buying clothes with radio chips that can broadcast your identity to anyone with a reader,
[31:11.000 --> 31:19.000]  it also means Macy's and Bloomingdale's will be able to remotely scan and identify you and your buying habits the instant you step through their doors.
[31:19.000 --> 31:25.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht urging everyone to stay clear of these stores until they drop this creepy technology.
[31:25.000 --> 31:30.000]  More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
[31:30.000 --> 31:35.000]  This is Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11.
[31:35.000 --> 31:37.000]  The government says that fire brought it down.
[31:37.000 --> 31:42.000]  However, 1,500 architects and engineers concluded it was a controlled demolition.
[31:42.000 --> 31:45.000]  Over 6,000 of my fellow service members have given their lives.
[31:45.000 --> 31:48.000]  Thousands of my fellow first responders are dying.
[31:48.000 --> 31:53.000]  I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not a structural engineer. I'm a New York City correction officer. I'm an Air Force pilot.
[31:53.000 --> 31:57.000]  I'm a father who lost his son. We're Americans, and we deserve the truth.
[31:57.000 --> 32:01.000]  Go to RememberBuilding7.org today.
[32:01.000 --> 32:05.000]  Rule of Law Radio is proud to offer the Rule of Law traffic seminar.
[32:05.000 --> 32:12.000]  In today's America, we live in an us-against-them society, and if we the people are ever going to have a free society, then we're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[32:12.000 --> 32:17.000]  Among those rights are the right to travel freely from place to place, the right to act in our own private capacity,
[32:17.000 --> 32:19.000]  and most importantly, the right to due process of law.
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[33:01.000 --> 33:15.000]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com.
[33:15.000 --> 33:31.000]  I got the warrant, and I'm going to solve them, to the head of the government then prosecute them. Okay.
[33:31.000 --> 33:36.000]  Welcome back to Logos, excuse me, cut, take two. Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[33:36.000 --> 33:42.000]  I'm one of your co-hosts, Steve Skidmore. Actually, Joe Esquivel has become a permanent fixture here.
[33:42.000 --> 33:50.000]  And Randy has the night off. Deborah Stevens runs the ship, and we've got Chris in the background.
[33:50.000 --> 33:58.000]  And Chris, we really appreciate you, and I hope you take advantage of tonight's reprieve from Randy's constant berating.
[33:58.000 --> 34:05.000]  But anyway, before we get started, folks, we'd like to remind you to help support the radio station.
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[34:25.000 --> 34:36.000]  Not the radio station, I'm sorry. Go to Rule of Law Radio on the web, ruleoflawradio.com, and visit some of the sponsors here.
[34:36.000 --> 34:41.000]  There's, I'm going through the front page here, and there's a lot of good stuff here.
[34:41.000 --> 34:52.000]  Eddie's show every night, Monday, every Monday night, Eddie Craig broadcasts and does a wonderful job going over due process and traffic tickets.
[34:52.000 --> 34:59.000]  And he's got a memory like a steel trap. My hat's off to Eddie.
[34:59.000 --> 35:06.000]  He's like a walking, living, breathing version of the Transportation Code, Texas Administration Code.
[35:06.000 --> 35:16.000]  But he's reduced his research to more simple writing, and he and Deborah and Randy put on a lecture.
[35:16.000 --> 35:22.000]  And if you'd like a copy of that lecture that goes over several different topics but are all invaluable,
[35:22.000 --> 35:29.000]  please come by and purchase the Rule of Law 2009 traffic seminar. Very, very well worth the money.
[35:29.000 --> 35:38.000]  Longevity is excellent, excellent product and jurisdictionary, an absolute must for pro se litigant.
[35:38.000 --> 35:47.000]  And I can concur on that one, Steve, because I have used it, and he who files the last motion wins.
[35:47.000 --> 35:50.000]  Oh, good. I love it.
[35:50.000 --> 35:52.000]  Sorry, that's just my take on it.
[35:52.000 --> 35:56.000]  Well, we filed the last one, so it's looking good, too, by the way.
[35:56.000 --> 35:57.000]  Yes.
[35:57.000 --> 35:58.000]  I'll talk to you about that later.
[35:58.000 --> 35:59.000]  Sorry to interrupt you.
[35:59.000 --> 36:13.000]  No, no, that's fine. Noble lies or a noble lie. If you want to know what really happened, the nitty gritty at Ground Zero in Oklahoma City in 1995, this is the definitive work.
[36:13.000 --> 36:24.000]  People, it's mind bending to know what our officials were up to in the vaccines.
[36:24.000 --> 36:31.000]  But anyway, needless to say that the Rule of Law radio could certainly use your support.
[36:31.000 --> 36:35.000]  So please go by and visit sponsors and patronize them.
[36:35.000 --> 36:41.000]  So, Joe, we were talking about you had a sign.
[36:41.000 --> 36:43.000]  Right. We're talking about bifurcation.
[36:43.000 --> 36:44.000]  Bifurcation.
[36:44.000 --> 37:00.000]  Between the tangible and the intangible pursuant to local law's jurisdiction under Article 9-312, where directly from the PEB report, which is the permanent editorial board for the Uniform Commercial Code.
[37:00.000 --> 37:04.000]  Now, this is the committee that governs the Uniform Commercial Code rules.
[37:04.000 --> 37:05.000]  Okay.
[37:05.000 --> 37:20.000]  And they had stated that in order the only way in which to perfect that intangible interest of the security instrument is to perfect the tangible.
[37:20.000 --> 37:25.000]  And as we all know, that there is a timely fashion in which it may be done.
[37:25.000 --> 37:26.000]  20 days.
[37:26.000 --> 37:29.000]  20 days.
[37:29.000 --> 37:39.000]  So I got to like scratch my head a little bit because when I see an assignment and let's just say PNC.
[37:39.000 --> 37:40.000]  Okay.
[37:40.000 --> 37:42.000]  Your buddies that you come to know when.
[37:42.000 --> 37:43.000]  I'd just love to pick on that.
[37:43.000 --> 37:44.000]  Oh, I know.
[37:44.000 --> 37:47.000]  A little bit harder target than B of A. It's still a good target.
[37:47.000 --> 38:02.000]  But when they do an assignment in 2010, 2011, 2012 to a trust that was started in 2003, 2004.
[38:02.000 --> 38:03.000]  Too late.
[38:03.000 --> 38:05.000]  They closed the gate.
[38:05.000 --> 38:06.000]  Wait a minute.
[38:06.000 --> 38:08.000]  You had 20 days by operation of law.
[38:08.000 --> 38:10.000]  That's right.
[38:10.000 --> 38:19.000]  So one of the questions that no one ever asked is this document eligible to be recorded?
[38:19.000 --> 38:26.000]  And to go even further into this, Steve, I was going on to a public record today.
[38:26.000 --> 38:34.000]  I was looking at Williamson County and I was looking at Travis County and I'm looking at these assignments that are filed of record.
[38:34.000 --> 38:38.000]  And up on top, it says electronic copy.
[38:38.000 --> 38:40.000]  Interesting.
[38:40.000 --> 38:54.000]  Now, I know what our laws say and many other laws for many states because I just had a client in South Carolina.
[38:54.000 --> 38:59.000]  In which I had set an affidavit of which was part of my analysis.
[38:59.000 --> 39:03.000]  I did an affidavit of fact.
[39:03.000 --> 39:12.000]  And so I went down and I got a certified copy made and recorded it kind of recorders office down the street.
[39:12.000 --> 39:20.000]  And the attorney says, I'm sorry, Mr. Esquivel, but county records require the original.
[39:20.000 --> 39:23.000]  So I have a certified copy.
[39:23.000 --> 39:32.000]  I know Mr. Esquivel, but this is South Carolina and Somerville requires the original.
[39:32.000 --> 39:37.000]  Really? Well, Williamson County, Travis County, they all require the original, Steve.
[39:37.000 --> 39:43.000]  But they take in electronic copies.
[39:43.000 --> 39:46.000]  That's not an original. Go figure. Yes.
[39:46.000 --> 39:52.000]  There's no maximum law. So something similar is not the same.
[39:52.000 --> 39:55.000]  Well, they meant it though. Yeah.
[39:55.000 --> 39:58.000]  They did mean it. Right.
[39:58.000 --> 40:08.000]  And so I'm looking at these. Well, you mean if I take this dollar bill out of my pocket and run it through Xerox machine five or six or 20,000 times, I can't use any of them.
[40:08.000 --> 40:12.000]  I've just wasted a lot of paper.
[40:12.000 --> 40:14.000]  I like the intent.
[40:14.000 --> 40:16.000]  Okay. Yeah.
[40:16.000 --> 40:25.000]  So I'm looking at these because many times that copy was from, say, a title company.
[40:25.000 --> 40:31.000]  And then when you have the title company, well, do you have the original? No. It was sent to me from a law firm.
[40:31.000 --> 40:36.000]  Then how does the title company know that it's an exact copy of the original?
[40:36.000 --> 40:41.000]  No, they don't. I mean, it could have come from Frappy Dappy and Mappy.
[40:41.000 --> 40:46.000]  It's like I told the judge out here in district court.
[40:46.000 --> 40:50.000]  I wasn't going to the show me the note thing.
[40:50.000 --> 40:55.000]  I was saying that we were in summary judgment, wife and I.
[40:55.000 --> 41:14.000]  And I told the judge that in the evidence that the purported plaintiff is bringing to court, or defendant rather, is bringing to court, there is an affidavit of business records.
[41:14.000 --> 41:36.000]  Now, in this affidavit of business records in the second paragraph, it starts off by saying that these are these instruments and the affiant was speaking of the copy of the note and the deed trust and warranty deed and a few other things, that these are records kept in the normal course of business.
[41:36.000 --> 41:54.000]  So they're business records that at the last sentence in the same paragraph, this young lady chose to make this statement, and I quote, the documents attached here to are the originals or exact duplicates.
[41:54.000 --> 41:57.000]  Was she at signing when you signed them? No, she was not.
[41:57.000 --> 42:01.000]  How the heck would she know? Well, that was one part of my argument.
[42:01.000 --> 42:24.000]  The second part of my argument was your honor, for her to have made that statement in a sworn affidavit, she had better been in physical contact with the absolute original documents and had put them on the glass plate of a Xerox copier herself.
[42:24.000 --> 42:33.000]  Elsewise, she was using another copy and they were not the originals or exact duplicates.
[42:33.000 --> 42:40.000]  The only way she could make an exact duplicate was to be in physical contact with the tangible original document.
[42:40.000 --> 42:44.000]  And how would she know if that was a tangible? Good question.
[42:44.000 --> 43:10.000]  She would still have had to have been there on the day of closing to know that, oh, yep, I saw him sign that. I know that's the same document. She would have had to have held it, felt it, see me sign it, and had been able to trace that thing all the way through its existence to make sure that that was the same original document.
[43:10.000 --> 43:15.000]  Otherwise, that was a perjurious statement. And what is a copy, Steve?
[43:15.000 --> 43:21.000]  A copy is anything that's not the original. Exactly.
[43:21.000 --> 43:33.000]  Anything that's been put through a scanner or photographed or otherwise recreated electronically. I have to agree with you on that.
[43:33.000 --> 43:52.000]  And I hear the music. So, folks, we will be right back. You're listening to Rule of Law Radio. And it is, I forgot to give the date. Today is the eighth day of October, 2013. October, November. Yes, it's October. I'm sorry.
[43:52.000 --> 44:02.000]  Things off through me. But we'll open the phone lines at the top of the hour. We'll be right back.
[44:02.000 --> 44:12.000]  Hello. My name is Stuart Smith from naturespureorganics.com, and I would like to invite you to come by our store at 1904 Guadalupe Street, Sweet D, here in Austin, Texas.
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[46:13.000 --> 46:38.000]  Welcome back to Rule of Law, ladies and gentlemen. I've got to apologize. Again, I apologize on the way out, now I'm apologizing on the way in. I was right the first time.
[46:38.000 --> 46:53.000]  It is November the 8th, 2013. I don't know why, but I think I'm going to have to go back and change the date on the document, Joe, because I've been putting October on everything today.
[46:53.000 --> 47:09.000]  I woke up this morning and in my world it was last month. Yeah, but you know in the banks world, all right? It's the same thing, apparently. It is. Because they can file these assignments years after a trust closes or years after the 20 days and it's okay.
[47:09.000 --> 47:35.000]  They think that nobody will notice. Now, you know, I mean, we were talking about copies. Yeah, exactly. What many parties need to understand is that the perception of what was to take place and what actually takes place are totally two different animals.
[47:35.000 --> 47:50.000]  Two different things. Two different things, because I have attorneys that tell me, Joe, they sold the note. And I asked them, really, do we have a copy of it? Are there endorsements on it?
[47:50.000 --> 48:09.000]  I even have two endorsements. At this point, I'd be happy with an endorsement. Right. Because now you're going to say, Joe, what's an endorsement? At least in my head, that would be a logical question that someone would ask Joe.
[48:09.000 --> 48:26.000]  Joe, what constitutes an endorsement? Simply put, a signature. Correct. Or additional words. Yes. Accompanied by. Now, and talking to certain parties. Vice President. Right. Now. Custodian of records.
[48:26.000 --> 48:44.000]  I was talking to a couple of parties in. I won't tell you where it's at, but they had the initials FL. And the attorney says Mr. Esquivel pursuant to 6731273.
[48:44.000 --> 48:49.000]  And he rattled off all these numbers. I said, what are we talking about? We're talking about endorsements.
[48:49.000 --> 49:03.000]  Mr. Esquivel, it says. A signature consists of a signature alone or other words. Accompanied. Yes, he says. Other words around that endorsement.
[49:03.000 --> 49:17.000]  The other words he was referring to were paid to the order of. No recourse. And. Or without recourse. Yes, those are other words in our English vocabulary.
[49:17.000 --> 49:29.000]  But many times it is these attorneys that are practicing law, Steve. Which are just determined.
[49:29.000 --> 49:37.000]  To make an understanding in their mind as to what is to take place and what has taken place.
[49:37.000 --> 49:40.000]  You know what I hear Steve is that Mr. Esquivel.
[49:40.000 --> 49:43.000]  There's other words.
[49:43.000 --> 49:47.000]  And I'm sorry, but when I read it and Steve, it says.
[49:47.000 --> 49:55.000]  Pay to the order of with an as of yet unnamed payee. That's what looks like a blank line, right?
[49:55.000 --> 50:07.000]  Okay, you could say it's a blank line. I know what it looks like. Right. It's an empty space. It would have appeared to the common man that the untrained eye that that's that's that's a blank.
[50:07.000 --> 50:16.000]  Everybody says that it is a blank line because it's a it's easier to say what it is not.
[50:16.000 --> 50:24.000]  Because our whole life we've been indoctrinated through school. Mr. Skidmore, would you mind filling in the blank lines on your application?
[50:24.000 --> 50:29.000]  Mr. Skidmore, would you fill in the form? Fill in the blank lines.
[50:29.000 --> 50:33.000]  Yeah, fill in the lines. So now.
[50:33.000 --> 50:41.000]  We're not talking about commenting. We're talking about legalese. We're talking about statutory requirements of the law. Right.
[50:41.000 --> 50:47.000]  Which states the language of English and the language of law, by the way, are not the same language.
[50:47.000 --> 50:51.000]  Let's just take the Uniform Commercial Cup pursuant to 3203C.
[50:51.000 --> 50:53.000]  Okay.
[50:53.000 --> 50:57.000]  Until the payee name is filled in.
[50:57.000 --> 51:01.000]  Negotiation does not take place. Right.
[51:01.000 --> 51:04.000]  Now, when they say filled in.
[51:04.000 --> 51:14.000]  And as of yet unnamed payee means it is not filled in.
[51:14.000 --> 51:19.000]  If it were filled in, there would be a named payee.
[51:19.000 --> 51:27.000]  And this is what I'd say 99 percent of the attorneys are stumbling over, Steve.
[51:27.000 --> 51:35.000]  They don't understand the difference between an E note and a tangible promissory note.
[51:35.000 --> 51:39.000]  They don't understand what is a security interest.
[51:39.000 --> 51:44.000]  So let's talk about security interest or security interests.
[51:44.000 --> 51:51.000]  These are the intangible personal property rights to future payments.
[51:51.000 --> 52:12.000]  Okay. We're talking about an intangible enforceable lien created by a security instrument or a claim created by a security agreement or by operation of law that secures the fulfillment of an intangible obligation pledge.
[52:12.000 --> 52:15.000]  That is what a security interest is.
[52:15.000 --> 52:35.000]  A security interest equals intangible obligation, which was created during securitization by an account debtor, which is routinely swapped for another intangible obligation being the certificates from the certificate holders.
[52:35.000 --> 52:44.000]  And as being a transferable record, such a transaction would fall under the governance of UCC-8.
[52:44.000 --> 53:05.000]  And for this certificate intangible to be secured by an intangible account debtor's personal property and for the negotiation of the intangible obligation would be in compliance with UCC-8 as it applies to transferable records.
[53:05.000 --> 53:15.000]  As the personal property securing the transferable record would be under article, UCC-9 would govern that, the personal property.
[53:15.000 --> 53:20.000]  So again, we have personal property and then we have the security interest.
[53:20.000 --> 53:37.000]  And there, because there are, there's more than one obligation. You got the obligation from the tangible obligor, Steve, and then you have the obligation, which the account debtor creates.
[53:37.000 --> 53:41.000]  And I use myself for an example.
[53:41.000 --> 53:44.000]  All right.
[53:44.000 --> 53:48.000]  I went through a bankruptcy.
[53:48.000 --> 53:55.000]  Now, in my bankruptcy, Steve, okay.
[53:55.000 --> 54:08.000]  I had my personal debt obligation listed as an unsecured obligation on Schedule F because it was unsecured.
[54:08.000 --> 54:09.000]  Okay.
[54:09.000 --> 54:18.000]  Because I had located that an interest of my mortgage loan instrument was sold to Fannie Mae.
[54:18.000 --> 54:19.000]  Okay.
[54:19.000 --> 54:23.000]  Thus leaving my mortgage loan instrument less an entire instrument.
[54:23.000 --> 54:40.000]  Secured meaning that the deed of trust, there was nothing wrong with it and that the premise would hold that the deed of trust would give whoever had, would give Pete, the person entitled to enforce the right to take your home from you in the event of default.
[54:40.000 --> 54:41.000]  Correct.
[54:41.000 --> 54:54.000]  And have been properly negotiated, transferred, and delivered the tangible promissory note. Right. But a secured debt is secured by a perfected instrument or a perfected security instrument, which is a deed of trust or a mortgage.
[54:54.000 --> 54:56.000]  And how did we perfect it?
[54:56.000 --> 55:00.000]  We perfect it by negotiation of the note.
[55:00.000 --> 55:05.000]  And filing. Carpenter V. Longin says the two are hand in hand. They are inseparable.
[55:05.000 --> 55:07.000]  And we perfect it by filing a public record.
[55:07.000 --> 55:08.000]  Correct.
[55:08.000 --> 55:34.000]  All right. So for my case, pursuant to BK rule 3001 subsection D as in dog, which states any party coming forth with a claim of a security interest must be proper, must be evidenced, must be evidenced by a properly perfected lien.
[55:34.000 --> 55:37.000]  What'd you find in the county records?
[55:37.000 --> 55:41.000]  Did you find a complete and correct and true accurate chain of title?
[55:41.000 --> 55:42.000]  I got to tell you this.
[55:42.000 --> 55:52.000]  What I did was because the plaintiff coming forth brought forth more than one copy into the court of the dead instrument being the tangible promissory note.
[55:52.000 --> 55:54.000]  And I know it was a, it was a true copy.
[55:54.000 --> 55:56.000]  You only signed one, didn't you?
[55:56.000 --> 55:57.000]  Well, that's all right.
[55:57.000 --> 55:59.000]  You know what? I guess they weren't sure.
[55:59.000 --> 56:00.000]  Okay.
[56:00.000 --> 56:10.000]  So anyways, the copy that they purported to be a true and correct copy of the original tangible promissory note had an incomplete stamping on it.
[56:10.000 --> 56:12.000]  I didn't see Fannie Mae on anything.
[56:12.000 --> 56:16.000]  So Fannie Mae was not written in the pay to the order of line.
[56:16.000 --> 56:18.000]  No. And then I checked public record.
[56:18.000 --> 56:19.000]  Guess what?
[56:19.000 --> 56:22.000]  Neither are, neither is anything there.
[56:22.000 --> 56:24.000]  Wasn't in there either.
[56:24.000 --> 56:26.000]  So.
[56:26.000 --> 56:28.000]  Seems to be a common problem.
[56:28.000 --> 56:39.000]  In doing my research and researching the, you know, statutes requirements pursuant to Article 9 and pursuant to Article 3.
[56:39.000 --> 56:45.000]  I said, okay, they've acquired an unsecured obligation.
[56:45.000 --> 56:47.000]  I concur.
[56:47.000 --> 56:52.000]  So now on my assets, I list them as an unsecured obligation.
[56:52.000 --> 57:02.000]  Now I will concur that a properly secured lien will survive a bankruptcy, Steve.
[57:02.000 --> 57:09.000]  However, at the time of my filing of my BK, there was no properly perfected lien.
[57:09.000 --> 57:10.000]  No, no.
[57:10.000 --> 57:13.000]  So what's a guy to do?
[57:13.000 --> 57:21.000]  I discharged the debt to my tangible promissory note.
[57:21.000 --> 57:23.000]  Because.
[57:23.000 --> 57:28.000]  When I was in court, I moved to court and I said, your honor, I moved to court.
[57:28.000 --> 57:33.000]  I asked a posting counsel for the record on the record on the penalty of perjury.
[57:33.000 --> 57:35.000]  Whom are you representing in court today?
[57:35.000 --> 57:38.000]  Are you representing Holder in due course?
[57:38.000 --> 57:41.000]  Or are you representing the creditor?
[57:41.000 --> 57:43.000]  The way to pause.
[57:43.000 --> 57:45.000]  European drop.
[57:45.000 --> 57:48.000]  Crickets, crickets, crickets.
[57:48.000 --> 57:49.000]  All right.
[57:49.000 --> 57:53.000]  And I asked it a second time.
[57:53.000 --> 57:57.000]  I asked it a third time, Steve.
[57:57.000 --> 57:58.000]  Asked it a third time.
[57:58.000 --> 58:06.000]  Judge said, Mr. Esquivel, you know, the opposing counsel cannot answer that question today.
[58:06.000 --> 58:10.000]  We are going to reconvene in 30 days.
[58:10.000 --> 58:15.000]  That gives him 30 days to find out who he's representing.
[58:15.000 --> 58:16.000]  Correct.
[58:16.000 --> 58:20.000]  That's where perjury comes to mind.
[58:20.000 --> 58:23.000]  This is why they practice law.
[58:23.000 --> 58:24.000]  Exactly.
[58:24.000 --> 58:25.000]  They haven't got it right yet.
[58:25.000 --> 58:26.000]  Right.
[58:26.000 --> 58:31.000]  So again, what was discharge?
[58:31.000 --> 58:33.000]  What was not discharge?
[58:33.000 --> 58:37.000]  When we come back, we're going to talk about that second obligation.
[58:37.000 --> 58:40.000]  And we'll turn the phones on to get back.
[58:40.000 --> 58:41.000]  Correct.
[58:41.000 --> 58:42.000]  We'll start taking calls.
[58:42.000 --> 58:43.000]  So.
[58:43.000 --> 58:44.000]  OK.
[58:44.000 --> 58:48.000]  I'll send in for Randy Kelton and Joe Esquivel to my right.
[58:48.000 --> 59:16.000]  We'll be right back.
[59:16.000 --> 59:43.000]  Thank you.
[59:46.000 --> 01:00:07.000]  This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty News and activist updates.
[01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:09.000]  Online at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:14.000]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Friday, November 8, 2013.
[01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:17.000]  Gold opened today at $1,295.
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[01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:53.000]  And now the news.
[01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:56.000]  More than $10 million each year.
[01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:02.000]  That's how much the CIA is paying AT&T for access to the company's phone records.
[01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:05.000]  A report published by the Washington Times Thursday
[01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.000]  says that while most of the calls are made overseas,
[01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:12.000]  some made to and from the United States are included with the collected data.
[01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:19.000]  The Times states that the company participation in the plot is volunteering.
[01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:22.000]  An Arkansas police officer is at the center of a lawsuit
[01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:26.000]  filed by a woman who claims she was tasered for refusing to show her breasts.
[01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:29.000]  The New York Daily News says Ashley Bennett claims that
[01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:34.000]  Officer Brandon Carter came to her workplace in uniform on December 11, 2011.
[01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:38.000]  It was then that he allegedly ordered her to let him look at her breasts.
[01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:41.000]  Bennett declined and claims she was chased around the building by Carter,
[01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:45.000]  who, when catching her, tased Bennett numerous times.
[01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.000]  She says it was not his first looted dance towards her.
[01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:54.000]  She's now suing Carter and the city of Haskell, Arkansas, in federal court.
[01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:59.000]  A new live videocast that will focus on solutions is set to launch on Thursday,
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[01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:07.000]  The Conscious Resistance Live will be hosted by Houston-based community activist Derek Brose
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[01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:16.000]  The program will run regularly on Sunday nights covering topical news stories
[01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:19.000]  as well as segments focusing on gardening, music, meditation,
[01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:22.000]  and ideas for creating change in your community.
[01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:26.000]  The debut episode will feature recently released activist Adam Kocash.
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[01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:57.000]  This is the Liberty Beat for Friday, November 8, 2013.
[01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:00.000]  Check out the website at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:36.000]  Welcome back to the Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:40.000]  I'd like to urge you one more time to go by ruleoflawradio.com
[01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:44.000]  and please take care of or take advantage of some of the great deals
[01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:48.000]  that are on the website and by doing so you'll help out the radio station.
[01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:53.000]  Tonight is Friday night and Steve Skidmore is setting in for Randy Kelton
[01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:57.000]  and to my right I've got Joe Esquivel, a licensed private investigator
[01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:00.000]  here in the bright state of Texas.
[01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:03.000]  We've got the phone lines opened up, so if you'd like to call in,
[01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:08.000]  that number is 512-646-1984.
[01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:17.000]  That's 512-646-1984 and we're going to try to keep the topics centered around
[01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:21.000]  foreclosure and mortgage issues and securitization thereof.
[01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:25.000]  So I assume we've got Ms. Frances, who's called in tonight.
[01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:27.000]  Hello, Frances, how are you tonight?
[01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:28.000]  What you got?
[01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.000]  Well, I'm sure you called to talk to Randy,
[01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:32.000]  but he's playing hooky tonight with a sore mouth.
[01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:34.000]  I hear that.
[01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:36.000]  Well, no, actually I called to talk to Joe.
[01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:37.000]  Okay.
[01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:42.000]  I got the bankruptcy court just ruled in just exactly what you were just talking about.
[01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:45.000]  Nice.
[01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:50.000]  And he didn't even mention the 3001D.
[01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:51.000]  You have to.
[01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:52.000]  Not...
[01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:53.000]  Huh?
[01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:54.000]  They have to?
[01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:56.000]  Well, that's something that I would bring up.
[01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:59.000]  The judge is not going to bring it up.
[01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:00.000]  Okay.
[01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.000]  Just so you know that this is...
[01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:11.000]  There is a presumption in the court that everybody already knows the rules.
[01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:16.000]  However, unless you state them, and one of the things, Frances,
[01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:20.000]  that is when you're in bankruptcy court, everything is recorded.
[01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:22.000]  Everything is on the record, and you can order an audio tape,
[01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:27.000]  and you can order a transcript to make sure as well, which is the cool part.
[01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:30.000]  So...
[01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:35.000]  Something might help everybody out is to know that to look at the judge...
[01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:40.000]  Okay, if everything is going according to law, look at the judge as a blank slate.
[01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.000]  You draw a line down the middle of this blank chalkboard,
[01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:49.000]  and one attorney brings his stuff and writes all his law on one side.
[01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:55.000]  The other attorney, or attorney in fact, comes in and writes in their law down on the other side.
[01:05:55.000 --> 01:06:00.000]  Whoever's got the most that sticks, wins.
[01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:05.000]  So it's our job as litigants to bring our law to court.
[01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:07.000]  The judge cannot bring his law.
[01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:10.000]  He's supposed to be a neutral party.
[01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:12.000]  So the judge is not going to raise any issues.
[01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:15.000]  That would be equivalent to practicing law from the bench,
[01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:17.000]  and they are forbidden from doing so.
[01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:20.000]  So what's your question, Frances?
[01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:22.000]  Okay, well, let me bring you up to speed then.
[01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:24.000]  Okay, so I filed a bankruptcy in 2012.
[01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:26.000]  Right.
[01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:30.000]  And Fannie Mae got a relief from stay, I argued.
[01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:31.000]  I tried to appeal.
[01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:34.000]  I couldn't get my paperwork quite right.
[01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:39.000]  So what I ended up doing was going back into the district court,
[01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:46.000]  and I filed a wrongful foreclosure and then was told that I had not properly surrendered
[01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:51.000]  the house and the cases into the bankruptcy court, so I lacked standing.
[01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:56.000]  So I went back to the bankruptcy court and I reopened the bankruptcy case,
[01:06:56.000 --> 01:07:00.000]  and it opened on March the 15th of this year.
[01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.000]  We have some shenanigans going on, and I don't think we need to talk about those just quite yet,
[01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:09.000]  because they – but anyway, so last – finally I compelled the court to –
[01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:15.000]  or moved the court to compel the trustee to make some sort of a decision one way or the other.
[01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:20.000]  And so then I filed – then the trustee hired an attorney,
[01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:26.000]  and – because there's some other – there's some probate stuff that's with it that I also had to surrender.
[01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:31.000]  And I filed my motion, which was basically, Joe, what you have said.
[01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:34.000]  I referenced Rule 3001D.
[01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:38.000]  I walked it down through the UCC and the Colorado Commercial Code
[01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:42.000]  and had all my exhibits that nothing was in the public record.
[01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:44.000]  There was no hearing.
[01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:49.000]  It was just paper motion that I filed into the court on the 28th of October.
[01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:54.000]  And this is what he's now ruled on, is basically – I already told you,
[01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:58.000]  and I'm not going to reinstate to stay, because I had –
[01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:04.000]  I was basically arguing it's unsecured debt, and therefore the stay should be reinstated.
[01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:05.000]  Correct.
[01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:06.000]  Okay.
[01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:13.000]  So now I've got this ruling that's denied, so I need to make my next move.
[01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:15.000]  Right?
[01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:20.000]  So do I – do I file for motion for reconsideration?
[01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:21.000]  I don't know.
[01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:25.000]  I am not sure.
[01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:32.000]  You're going to have a choice of one of two things, either appeal or motion to reconsider.
[01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:37.000]  Now, is – in the motion to reconsider, that's going to be very similar to an appeal
[01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:41.000]  over where you're not bringing anything new to court.
[01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:46.000]  Do you have enough on the record of the court for the court to reconsider?
[01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:50.000]  Is there something that has already been put before the court that the court overlooked
[01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:53.000]  that might be crucial to your case?
[01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:59.000]  How were you listed on – were you listed on Schedule F, Francis, your property?
[01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:05.000]  I listed the property on Schedule A as we had a warranty deed,
[01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:07.000]  because by the time we got to bankruptcy –
[01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:08.000]  Okay.
[01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:12.000]  And where else – other than A, was it on D as in Dog or F as in Frank?
[01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:13.000]  It was on F.
[01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:14.000]  All right.
[01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:16.000]  It was on D and F.
[01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:23.000]  So did you receive a discharge of the debt?
[01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:30.000]  You know – okay, let me – I'm not really sure, because we filed on April the 13th,
[01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:40.000]  and I did not add the mortgage stuff in the alleged liens until August the 16th,
[01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:45.000]  and I believe my debt may have been discharged on August the 2nd.
[01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:46.000]  Okay.
[01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:49.000]  This is where you might – probably would like to talk to me.
[01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:51.000]  That does strictly decay.
[01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:56.000]  Now, I'm not sure in regards to getting a stay reenacted,
[01:09:56.000 --> 01:10:03.000]  but as far as getting the debt of the tangible promissory note discharge,
[01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:07.000]  because again, here's what you have to understand.
[01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:10.000]  You were with a GSE, correct?
[01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:11.000]  Correct.
[01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:23.000]  Okay. So your intangible payment stream that was ripped out from your tangible promissory note,
[01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:32.000]  all right, by your – by your tangible obligee, who was seal under,
[01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:44.000]  and then the tangible obligee became the account debtor and created an intangible obligation,
[01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:53.000]  which was sold to Fannie Mae, and then Fannie Mae took that intangible payment obligation
[01:10:53.000 --> 01:11:08.000]  and put that into a pool of intangible obligations, and then sold interest of that to certificate holders.
[01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:09.000]  Okay.
[01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:19.000]  Because many times they're – basically, there's a swap is what they do.
[01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:29.000]  So the investors think that they have a true residential mortgage-backed security,
[01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:36.000]  but the truth is that it is an unsecured obligation, which was created by the account debtor,
[01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:44.000]  which was never properly transferred, negotiated, delivered.
[01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:49.000]  It was – the instrument was never properly done because it was an e-instrument.
[01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:54.000]  It was not a tangible, negotiable instrument.
[01:11:54.000 --> 01:12:03.000]  It did not contain a security instrument with a secured interest.
[01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:07.000]  Fannie Mae bought an interest of your mortgage loan instrument.
[01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:14.000]  So I know this because when I go – I've gone back to court a number of times.
[01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:27.000]  I bought Bank of America back into court, and I was suing them for their – they violated the injunction of the discharge order.
[01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:40.000]  So my question to you is, and at which I would look into is, was your debt of the – of your tangible promissory note discharge?
[01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:48.000]  Again, there were two obligations, one created by the tangible obligor being yourself,
[01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:56.000]  and the second intangible obligation, which was created by the account debtor.
[01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:59.000]  Because Fannie Mae can only go back to the account debtor.
[01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:05.000]  Fannie Mae can't go to the homeowner because Fannie Mae has never dealt with the homeowner.
[01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:07.000]  Fannie Mae has nothing to do with the homeowner.
[01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:08.000]  You're not on the note.
[01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:10.000]  You're not listed in public record.
[01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:15.000]  Get out.
[01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:17.000]  Does that make sense?
[01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:18.000]  It does.
[01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:21.000]  I did list the account debtor, and I did say that, but you know what?
[01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:24.000]  I just like the light bulb went on totally at that point when you just said that.
[01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:33.000]  All right, so now when I've gone back in the court, all right, and again, it's how you word it.
[01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:37.000]  So when I went back in the court, you know, pardon my pleading word, Your Honor.
[01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:48.000]  You know, they have violated the injunction pertaining to the discharge of the debt of the tangible promissory note.
[01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:52.000]  Because they tell me, Mr. Esquivel, your debt has been discharged.
[01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:01.000]  Okay, then if my debt for the tangible instrument has been discharged, then there is no debt to evidence,
[01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:07.000]  conditions over which collection can take place pertaining to the security instrument.
[01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:18.000]  Because Carpenter v. Longin, 1872, the mortgage cannot survive a moment without the debt that exists.
[01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:28.000]  So with the debt being discharged, what is the security instrument to attach itself to?
[01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:29.000]  Nothing. There's no debt.
[01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:38.000]  It becomes a nullity. It's not voidable. It's not voided. It becomes a nullity by operation of law.
[01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:44.000]  If you're taking the house to collect the debt and there's no debt, then stay away from my house.
[01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:52.000]  Right. Now, they're going to tell you, Francis, Francis, you know that a lien can survive a bankruptcy.
[01:14:52.000 --> 01:14:59.000]  And you're going to say, I concur. However, there was not a properly perfected lien.
[01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:06.000]  And I know that because I've been in court testifying, Francis, in Denver, I was at a Rule 120 hearing.
[01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:12.000]  And the judge told me, Mr. Esquivel, I don't like what you're saying.
[01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:21.000]  Now, he says to me, Mr. Esquivel, there was a legitimate lien on that property at one time.
[01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:31.000]  Okay. At one time, not today, not yesterday. At this time, there was no valid lien.
[01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:39.000]  Okay. And pursuant to Colorado 6-10-108, under notice of assignments of realty,
[01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:49.000]  it says, where real property or any interest, any interest therein by deed conveyed to the assignee,
[01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:57.000]  the assignee shall file with the clerk and recorder of each county where the real estate is situated,
[01:15:57.000 --> 01:16:02.000]  a notice of the assignment containing the names of the assigner.
[01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:12.000]  Wait a minute. If any may purchase an interest in my mortgage loan instrument, had this been a legitimate transaction
[01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:22.000]  pertaining to the tangible promissory note, pertaining to the sale of the intangible payment obligation,
[01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:31.000]  pertaining to the security instrument, then they would have a right to foreclose Francis.
[01:16:31.000 --> 01:16:40.000]  The problem is that this is smoke and mirrors. So when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about this, Francis,
[01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:46.000]  because that's all it is. It's a shell game. That's all. No more, no less.
[01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:51.000]  So this is Joe Esquivel, Steve Skidmore, Rule of Law Radio.
[01:16:51.000 --> 01:17:00.000]  We're looking forward to take your calls at 512-646-1984. We'll be right back.
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[01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:40.000]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks.
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[01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:55.000]  Before we left, let me hit the Go Live button.
[01:19:55.000 --> 01:20:09.000]  Joe was speaking with Francis in Colorado about discharging mortgage debt or discharging debt in general, discharging an obligation, I'm sorry, in bankruptcy.
[01:20:09.000 --> 01:20:17.000]  Right. Now, as we're talking, Francis, again, we need to have a clear understanding.
[01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:26.000]  And I believe when I got my discharge, I was probably spoke for about 15 minutes because he gave me the open floor.
[01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:32.000]  And one of the things that I did ask was, is my debt discharged?
[01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:37.000]  His words to me were, all dischargeable debts have been satisfied.
[01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:40.000]  That's not what I want to hear.
[01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:51.000]  I'm asking a specific question. Is my debt discharged as per my summary of schedules?
[01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:57.000]  Yes or no? Well, it turns out my debt is discharged.
[01:20:57.000 --> 01:21:13.000]  And the post in council, when we were in court about a year ago, and the judge asked him, because he was there on behalf of Bank of America, Steve, and he said, so, Mr. Wilde, what are we in court for today?
[01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:20.000]  I don't know what we're in court for, Your Honor. Mr. Esquivel's debt has been discharged about two years ago. I don't know what we're doing here.
[01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:23.000]  Then what are they trying to take the house for?
[01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:25.000]  They're not trying.
[01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:26.000]  Not anymore.
[01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:39.000]  Not anymore. So, Francis, when you understand that the obligation that still exists is the obligation of the account debtor.
[01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:45.000]  So, it is the account debtor that created that obligation.
[01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:52.000]  So, they are the ones that need to be held accountable.
[01:21:52.000 --> 01:21:57.000]  They are the ones that you need to put their feet to the fire.
[01:21:57.000 --> 01:22:12.000]  Okay. Well, once you say that, then what I, you know, what I didn't, I probably did not, I didn't add that to my Schedule F until quite far along into my bankruptcy.
[01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:24.000]  In fact, my bankruptcy attorney had just left us on our own at that point. He did all the filing. He didn't put the debt obligation, you know, the notes and stuff that, he didn't put that.
[01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:27.000]  However, you added there before the discharge, correct?
[01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:34.000]  I'm not sure if I did. I think that I added it after the discharge was done. And so, I think that you've brought up a very legitimate question.
[01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:43.000]  So, how would I move the court? I mean, I'm not moving the court to discharge that debt since my bankruptcy's reopened.
[01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:55.000]  You know what? I don't have an answer I could give you at this time. My best answer to you would be to seek out a bankruptcy.
[01:22:55.000 --> 01:23:11.000]  One, I would go through the docket history and I would see, I would look at the date in which you amended your schedules because you can go back on the PACER and you can pull up your docket history from the newest to the oldest.
[01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:19.000]  And look at the date in which you were discharged and look at the date in which you change your summary of schedules.
[01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:25.000]  Okay. And if one, if I change my schedules after the discharge, then I'm not discharged, correct?
[01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:38.000]  Correct. And I would then find out what would it take for me to open up the case and discharge that debt.
[01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:41.000]  Well, my case is reopened now.
[01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:58.000]  Okay. So then ask, I would, I'm not sure how to ask, but one of the questions would be to an attorney that does be cased, how can I get this debt discharged off of my bankruptcy today?
[01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:03.000]  What kind of times filing deadlines do you have, Frances?
[01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:13.000]  You know, it's kind of weird, Steve. They had asked for the 29th for everyone to respond by the 29th. We have two probate cases that are going on inside of this too.
[01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:20.000]  Only one is the property of the bankruptcy court. The other one, it was 267 days afterward.
[01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:27.000]  They can only have the things that happened up to 180 days after the bankruptcy was filed.
[01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:34.000]  My brother and mother took all of my inheritance out of my dad's and my aunt's.
[01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:38.000]  Oh, right. Yeah. I remember hearing about that.
[01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:43.000]  My brother's inserted himself in here and so now he's gummed up the whole process, as it were.
[01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:45.000]  Oh, okay.
[01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:52.000]  So we have, so it's opened right now and I think we probably have more time, unfortunately. I mean, I kind of wanted it to be...
[01:24:52.000 --> 01:25:05.000]  I wonder, okay, I'm wondering if you can sever these issues. Does your brother have any connection to your mortgage?
[01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:14.000]  No, not at all. He's just entered in as a representative of the death of states and that will only last until December the 6th when he'll be officially removed.
[01:25:14.000 --> 01:25:24.000]  Okay. I'm wondering, now this is just a theory, I'm wondering if you can sever your issues from the rest of the probate issues.
[01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:33.000]  If you can sever that, you say you've got a filing deadline coming up on the 29th. That's three weeks from today.
[01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:36.000]  No, no, that was last, that was October.
[01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:45.000]  Oh, oh, oh, okay. I told you I woke up last month this morning. Okay.
[01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:54.000]  That's so funny. So, you know, right now we're just kind of, there's this nebulance.
[01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:55.000]  Yeah.
[01:25:55.000 --> 01:26:02.000]  It's a state thing, you know, they haven't made a decision about whether they're going to take the cases on the house, which is a wrongful foreclosure.
[01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:09.000]  I surrendered the eviction, I surrendered everything I had going on in, on the house.
[01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:10.000]  Okay.
[01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:16.000]  And so all of it is kind of opened, but if that makes any sense.
[01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:19.000]  It does, it does.
[01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:20.000]  And so the others.
[01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:23.000]  Where there's an opening, there's a wiggle room.
[01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:24.000]  Right. Okay.
[01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:31.000]  You just got to take advantage of it. And now your question is how do you take advantage of that wiggle room?
[01:26:31.000 --> 01:26:35.000]  I would, yeah.
[01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:40.000]  If you can call back in Friday, Randy might have something up his sleeve in regard to that.
[01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:49.000]  I'm not sure and I don't want to put that on his shoulders, but he might have something that we don't.
[01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:52.000]  Yeah, I think BK is really not.
[01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:54.000]  You need a BK specialist to be honest.
[01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:55.000]  Yeah, BK is not.
[01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:59.000]  You need, you need someone that does BK all the time to pit their brain.
[01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:02.000]  Okay. I can do that too.
[01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:03.000]  Perfect.
[01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:04.000]  I can do that.
[01:27:04.000 --> 01:27:05.000]  Okay.
[01:27:05.000 --> 01:27:06.000]  All right.
[01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:15.000]  Would you tell me again what the statute, you quoted the statute so fast I didn't get it written down about any interest must be recorded.
[01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:16.000]  Oh, sure.
[01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:17.000]  All right, hold on one second.
[01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:18.000]  All right.
[01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:19.000]  That's the beautiful thing about archives.
[01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:22.000]  Here's what you got.
[01:27:22.000 --> 01:27:24.000]  All right.
[01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:37.000]  Only because, like I said, I was in Colorado testifying, so you have a Colorado statute 6-10-108.
[01:27:37.000 --> 01:27:38.000]  Okay.
[01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:46.000]  Now, the magic words are shell forth with file.
[01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:50.000]  Define file.
[01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:57.000]  So if you go to the statute and pull it up, it gives you everything that you need.
[01:27:57.000 --> 01:27:58.000]  Okay.
[01:27:58.000 --> 01:27:59.000]  Thank you.
[01:27:59.000 --> 01:28:10.000]  But what parties don't understand, Francis, again, did negotiation take place?
[01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:21.000]  And what was negotiated? Was the mortgage loan instrument properly negotiated, transferred, delivered?
[01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:31.000]  Was there an assignment in parallel at the same time of the security instrument pertaining to that document?
[01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:46.000]  And was that payment intangible sold to that sole party with the only party being able to claim interest of that payment intangible?
[01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:50.000]  Because you need to have all three parts.
[01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:56.000]  If you don't have all three parts, then you only have a partial cause of action.
[01:28:56.000 --> 01:29:02.000]  A partial cause of action will not allow you to be peaked.
[01:29:02.000 --> 01:29:03.000]  Okay.
[01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:05.000]  But you're doing awesome.
[01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:08.000]  They're going to try and buffalo you.
[01:29:08.000 --> 01:29:11.000]  They're going to tell you there is a lien.
[01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:12.000]  All right.
[01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:23.000]  Well, unfortunately, because Fannie Mae was not there prior to your bankruptcy, Fannie Mae is not in there on the tangible promissory note.
[01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:29.000]  Now, you're not going to get your stay because there's nothing to apply the stay against.
[01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:37.000]  But I would definitely look at making sure that your debt is discharged.
[01:29:37.000 --> 01:29:38.000]  Okay.
[01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:39.000]  All right.
[01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:40.000]  Right.
[01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:42.000]  Guy, we'll do that.
[01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:44.000]  I hear the music in the background, folks.
[01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:48.000]  512-646-1984 is the number.
[01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:53.000]  We'll be back after this brief message and get something off the website.
[01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:54.000]  Go look and see what we've got.
[01:29:54.000 --> 01:30:02.000]  We'll be right back.
[01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:08.000]  Police arrested activists outside the Capitol building for, get this, selling lemonade without a permit.
[01:30:08.000 --> 01:30:10.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:15.000]  Back to tell you how cops are cracking down on lemonade stands across America next.
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[01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:50.000]  As far as I know, nobody's been punished on Wall Street yet for the 08 crash.
[01:30:50.000 --> 01:30:58.000]  Instead, police have been putting children's lemonade stands out of business in seven states, including Texas, Georgia, and Maryland.
[01:30:58.000 --> 01:31:02.000]  Kitty lemonade stands, the nerve of those hardened criminals.
[01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:07.000]  To make a point, activists set up a 10-cent-a-cup lemonade stand on the lawn of the Capitol building.
[01:31:07.000 --> 01:31:14.000]  Cops monitored the lemonistas with binoculars, then arrested the group on charges of vending without a permit.
[01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:18.000]  Thumbs down to the sour-faced cops who handcuffed the protesters.
[01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:23.000]  And long live lemon liberty to the sweet demonstrators on the right side of freedom.
[01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:30.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht. More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
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[01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:19.000]  Looking for some truth? You found it. Logosradionetwork.com.
[01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:44.000]  You having technical difficulty over there?
[01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:46.000]  No, I just refreshed it.
[01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:48.000]  Okay, folks, we're back on Rural Law Radio.
[01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:57.000]  512-646-1984, we'll get you on here.
[01:33:57.000 --> 01:34:02.000]  I'm Steve Skidmore sitting in for Randy Kelton tonight while he's out playing hooky.
[01:34:02.000 --> 01:34:08.000]  He's down in Mexico drinking tequila, talking to the ladies, and getting his teeth pulled.
[01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:11.000]  Gee, what fun. Can't think of anything better in the world.
[01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:14.000]  And here with Joe Esquivel.
[01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:22.000]  We're going to talk now to Doug in Texas. Hi, Doug. How are you tonight?
[01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:24.000]  Hi, Steve.
[01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:27.000]  There you are. What you got for us?
[01:34:27.000 --> 01:34:42.000]  Well, you know, this might be a little bit off topic, but I want to talk to you about what you thought about the grave punishment that they gave to Ken Anderson, the scumbag of the world.
[01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:51.000]  Oh, Ken Anderson. I think he got a slap on the wrist. If you ask me, the man should be in prison.
[01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:57.000]  For at least as long as he sent an innocent man to prison, he should be in prison.
[01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:03.000]  No, not at least. He'd be there about two or three times as long.
[01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:08.000]  Okay. I'll match you that.
[01:35:08.000 --> 01:35:31.000]  Yeah. For folks that don't understand, Ken Anderson, I was going to say is, was a judge in Williamson County. And by withholding exculpatory evidence, he sent a man to prison under the false pretenses that he'd murdered somebody.
[01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:37.000]  And he didn't. He was an innocent man. And Ken Anderson knew it when he sentenced him to prison.
[01:35:37.000 --> 01:35:47.000]  My question is, why? How would Ken Anderson, what would he have gained by doing that?
[01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:55.000]  We see what he'd lost. He lost his career. He lost his seat at the bench. And rightly so. He earned that ousting.
[01:35:55.000 --> 01:36:15.000]  He lost his bar card. He kept his pension. In other words, he did a little penny. He got 10 days. And he lost his bar card. But he kept his pension. So we're going to be paying the useless piece of crap.
[01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:18.000]  For years to come.
[01:36:18.000 --> 01:36:24.000]  I mean, he's the worst of the worst as far as I'm concerned.
[01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:30.000]  Well, there's some out there worse. He's just the one that got caught.
[01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:40.000]  There are a lot of them out there that are just as bad, just as corrupt, just don't care any more than Ken Anderson does about the life of his fellow man.
[01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:49.000]  Now, I don't want to paint all judicial officers with that broad brush. There are some good judges out there. I've met a few of them. I've been in a few of them.
[01:36:49.000 --> 01:37:01.000]  I've had my backside handed to me by good judges that just tells me that I wasn't as good a litigant as he or she was a judge.
[01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:18.000]  I think sometimes the berating that we give attorneys and judges are well deserved. And sometimes I think that it's the bad ones that give the good ones a bad name.
[01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:33.000]  But, you know, I mean, when a litigant goes to court, they know the law, they've done their homework, and you got a judge that just doesn't want to hear it, won't allow any of your evidence on the record, won't give you a fair shake whatsoever.
[01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:46.000]  That's not a judge, folks. That's not a judge. That's somebody in a black robe that's got his own agenda or her own agenda and best interests at heart and definitely not the public.
[01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:49.000]  The public can be damned. They're making money doing this.
[01:37:49.000 --> 01:37:59.000]  Now, this brings me back to what motivation would Ken Anderson have sentenced a man to life in prison when he knew full well he was innocent?
[01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:01.000]  I want to look at some financial records.
[01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:03.000]  Yes, sir.
[01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:04.000]  Bank statements.
[01:38:04.000 --> 01:38:05.000]  Yeah.
[01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:07.000]  Portfolios.
[01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:17.000]  I mean, if it was just a burr that he had under his saddle, okay, take his pension from him.
[01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:24.000]  Not just his robe and his bar card, take it all. He has shown himself not to be worthy of office.
[01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:34.000]  So, yeah, I get a little fired up about Ken Anderson. I get fired up about any of these judges that act well beyond their judicial bounds.
[01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:38.000]  That's how this country got in the mess that it's in today.
[01:38:38.000 --> 01:38:51.000]  And that's why we have, but one of the things that you did bring up, Steve, is that the judges are supposed to rule based on what is put in front of them.
[01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:52.000]  Exactly.
[01:38:52.000 --> 01:39:04.000]  So we as litigants must come forth with the proper arguments articulating with specificity and particularity, and that is where the majority.
[01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:08.000]  Well, in this case, the man had the evidence he needed.
[01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:09.000]  I concur.
[01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:18.000]  It was exculpatory evidence. For those who don't know, exculpatory evidence is evidence that would clear you of a charge.
[01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:22.000]  That's what exculpatory evidence, and Ken Anderson would not allow it on the record.
[01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:24.000]  And that's why it cost him his career.
[01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:26.000]  And he deserves much more than that.
[01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:27.000]  Thank you.
[01:39:27.000 --> 01:39:28.000]  I agree.
[01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:30.000]  Yeah. I think Doug does too.
[01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:40.000]  And I agree, as you had mentioned, Steve, is that as litigants, when we go forth, we need to give the courts the correct arguments.
[01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:43.000]  Right. Not just the correct evidence, but the correct argument.
[01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:56.000]  Well, the correct argument and with specificity, because there is not a lot of case law pertaining to these correct arguments, because they have not been brought forth.
[01:39:56.000 --> 01:40:01.000]  Well, Joe, if things go right for me on the 21st, I'll be setting precedents.
[01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:03.000]  Correct.
[01:40:03.000 --> 01:40:21.000]  And I tell people, many times, Steve, if you put forth the correct argument and the judge rules against you, the whole point is to set it up for appeals, because when it goes to the appellate court is to be ruled on the merits, period.
[01:40:21.000 --> 01:40:36.000]  So I understand that many times certain parties think they're being cunning. And I hear them say, Joe, I'm going to hold back on filing this.
[01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:39.000]  Joe, I'm going to hold back on giving this information.
[01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:43.000]  My question is, why hold back?
[01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:55.000]  If you are going to get ruled against you, pursuant to Russ Judicata, you can only appeal what has been ruled upon.
[01:40:55.000 --> 01:41:05.000]  If you did not have the proper arguments articulated, you may not get that second chance, period.
[01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:12.000]  So I agree with you and Doug, thanks for that call. We really appreciate it.
[01:41:12.000 --> 01:41:15.000]  Did you have anything else?
[01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:33.000]  I heard this morning on a different talk radio show that a guy said he knew Ken Anderson for quite a while, and he disrespected him for the last 20 years because he saw him at a charity golf game.
[01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:43.000]  And he kicked his ball, you know, to advance himself a little bit. And he said, well, I knew he was sorry then.
[01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:49.000]  This guy's been his whole life making a fortune.
[01:41:49.000 --> 01:41:59.000]  Yeah. But if you're going to cheat on the golf course or on the pool table, then you'll cheat anywhere.
[01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:03.000]  Well, if you do it someplace, you'll do it someplace else.
[01:42:03.000 --> 01:42:05.000]  Exactly. Exactly. Well played.
[01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:14.000]  I lost all respect for him. But can you imagine how much harm this man is doing with all the power that he's had?
[01:42:14.000 --> 01:42:23.000]  Well, you know, with the topic of murder aside, with a ruling like this, you've got to question, is this an isolated event?
[01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:37.000]  Or should the judiciary or the powers that be up there in the higher courts take a look at some of the other decisions that he's come to, particularly those that have been questioned?
[01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:45.000]  I'd say, yes, invest some time, look into it and see if you can put this guy away, man.
[01:42:45.000 --> 01:42:54.000]  I mean, if it had been one of us, we would never, ever have received such leniency.
[01:42:54.000 --> 01:43:05.000]  What I say by one of us is somebody who's not been to law school, somebody is not one of their bar members, not one of the good old boys, just an average old boy.
[01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:18.000]  Yeah, if it were me, you'd never see me again. They'd put me away. But I guess that there are certain privileges that come with the robe.
[01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:25.000]  With the robe, Steve, you expect to be held to higher standards.
[01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:26.000]  Absolutely.
[01:43:26.000 --> 01:43:31.000]  I know on the streets it's stealing loaf of bread or something like that.
[01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:43.000]  Right, right. I've gotten much more respect for somebody who would steal to feed their kids than to put an innocent man in jail, possibly for the rest of his life.
[01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:46.000]  Doug, hang on. If you've got anything else, we're coming up to a break.
[01:43:46.000 --> 01:43:58.000]  512-646-1984. We'll get you on the phone with myself, Steve Skidmore, who's setting in for Randy Kelton tonight, or setting to my left, Joe Esquivel.
[01:43:58.000 --> 01:44:00.000]  We'll be right back after this.
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[01:46:22.000 --> 01:46:48.000]  Welcome back to Rule of Law Radio, folks.
[01:46:48.000 --> 01:46:58.000]  Stop by the website and check out what there is to learn from and to purchase and to support the network.
[01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:04.000]  Debra's doing a fantastic keeping this thing together, but she's doing so on a huge ring and she needs some help.
[01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:10.000]  We were talking to Doug in Texas. Doug, were you through or did you have some more?
[01:47:10.000 --> 01:47:11.000]  More.
[01:47:11.000 --> 01:47:12.000]  Okay.
[01:47:12.000 --> 01:47:23.000]  Yeah, he's going to lose his bar card. In other words, he can't rob people legally. He can't, you know, participate in his little activities.
[01:47:23.000 --> 01:47:36.000]  And that's a big penalty. And God knows if he did this to Michael Morton, how many other people did he screw over?
[01:47:36.000 --> 01:47:45.000]  Right. Yeah, we need to go back and look at some of the other cases that he's made ill decisions on.
[01:47:45.000 --> 01:47:52.000]  He is a psychopath. And what we're going to do is give him 10 days in the county jail.
[01:47:52.000 --> 01:47:54.000]  Yeah, that's not good enough.
[01:47:54.000 --> 01:47:59.000]  What we're going to give him is he's going to keep his little pension.
[01:47:59.000 --> 01:48:00.000]  Right.
[01:48:00.000 --> 01:48:05.000]  That man should have absolutely nothing.
[01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:14.000]  I agree. Well, Doug, we've been over these issues and we do have more callers. Did you have a fresh issue?
[01:48:14.000 --> 01:48:21.000]  Yeah, the fresh issue is the man should be completely deaf, too.
[01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:27.000]  Hey, Doug, we've got a stack of callers now. I'm going to let you go so we can go to Debbie in Texas.
[01:48:27.000 --> 01:48:32.000]  Thank you, Doug. I appreciate you calling in. Hello, Debbie. What have you got for us tonight?
[01:48:32.000 --> 01:48:43.000]  Well, can a deputy district attorney do the scheduling for a grand jury?
[01:48:43.000 --> 01:48:44.000]  I don't know.
[01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:46.000]  I don't either. Grand juries are not my forte.
[01:48:46.000 --> 01:48:48.000]  That is a Randy Kelton question.
[01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:50.000]  I would agree. I concur.
[01:48:50.000 --> 01:48:52.000]  Let me ask you another question, just in case.
[01:48:52.000 --> 01:48:53.000]  Okay.
[01:48:53.000 --> 01:49:01.000]  Can a deputy district attorney also be a foreman for the grand jury?
[01:49:01.000 --> 01:49:05.000]  I would think not. That might create a conflict of interest.
[01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:17.000]  Again, if it pertains to foreclosure, I can answer that. Rules of civil procedure and court rules, that's outside of me.
[01:49:17.000 --> 01:49:24.000]  I know how to define conflict of interest, and it looks like we're looking straight down that barrel.
[01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:28.000]  Well, that's what I thought, but just another question.
[01:49:28.000 --> 01:49:31.000]  You might look in the administrative code.
[01:49:31.000 --> 01:49:34.000]  Administrative code, okay.
[01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:44.000]  And beware, some of the portions of the administrative code are very carefully and very intentionally hidden.
[01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:45.000]  Okay.
[01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:55.000]  Eddie Craig can tell you about that. He had to go downtown Austin and literally pry some of this information out.
[01:49:55.000 --> 01:50:03.000]  He was reading through the administrative code, and he noticed there were some sections missing.
[01:50:03.000 --> 01:50:07.000]  And it took an open records request to get that information.
[01:50:07.000 --> 01:50:10.000]  So just a heads up on the administrative code.
[01:50:10.000 --> 01:50:15.000]  But it seems to me like that would create a conflict of interest.
[01:50:15.000 --> 01:50:22.000]  Well, I don't even know if you're saying it was a district attorney?
[01:50:22.000 --> 01:50:24.000]  Yes, a deputy district attorney.
[01:50:24.000 --> 01:50:26.000]  Deputy district attorney.
[01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:34.000]  I don't know if he can sit on the grand jury even if he took a leave of absence.
[01:50:34.000 --> 01:50:38.000]  That still screams a conflict of interest.
[01:50:38.000 --> 01:50:44.000]  Call back in and talk to Randy next Friday or Thursday or Friday and see what he's got to say on it.
[01:50:44.000 --> 01:50:47.000]  He's the guy to talk to about grand juries.
[01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:50.000]  God knows he's had his battles with them.
[01:50:50.000 --> 01:50:53.000]  Well, just one more question, just in case.
[01:50:53.000 --> 01:50:54.000]  Sure.
[01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:59.000]  When you do go before the grand jury, how long does it afterwards?
[01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:05.000]  How long does it take before you know if you get a true bill or not?
[01:51:05.000 --> 01:51:08.000]  That's another Randy question.
[01:51:08.000 --> 01:51:12.000]  I agree. That's out of my scope.
[01:51:12.000 --> 01:51:21.000]  Okay. Okay. And when should I call back in for Randy?
[01:51:21.000 --> 01:51:22.000]  Say it again.
[01:51:22.000 --> 01:51:24.000]  When should I call back in for Randy?
[01:51:24.000 --> 01:51:26.000]  Thursday or Friday night?
[01:51:26.000 --> 01:51:27.000]  Okay.
[01:51:27.000 --> 01:51:30.000]  Eddie's got Monday nights.
[01:51:30.000 --> 01:51:35.000]  Debra and Randy are on Thursday and it's Randy and Joe on Fridays.
[01:51:35.000 --> 01:51:37.000]  Okay. Thank you.
[01:51:37.000 --> 01:51:38.000]  Yes, ma'am.
[01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:39.000]  Thank you for calling in.
[01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:44.000]  Now we're going to go to Troy in Colorado.
[01:51:44.000 --> 01:51:45.000]  Hello, Troy.
[01:51:45.000 --> 01:51:46.000]  Hang on.
[01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:49.000]  Okay. Take two.
[01:51:49.000 --> 01:51:50.000]  Hi, Troy.
[01:51:50.000 --> 01:51:53.000]  What do you got for us tonight?
[01:51:53.000 --> 01:51:54.000]  Hello, Troy.
[01:51:54.000 --> 01:51:55.000]  There he is.
[01:51:55.000 --> 01:51:56.000]  Yes.
[01:51:56.000 --> 01:51:58.000]  What's on your mind, Troy?
[01:51:58.000 --> 01:52:01.000]  Well, I've been having troubles with my mortgage company,
[01:52:01.000 --> 01:52:03.000]  just like I'm here and all of your callers have been doing.
[01:52:03.000 --> 01:52:06.000]  Well, bless your heart and join the club.
[01:52:06.000 --> 01:52:07.000]  You came to the right place.
[01:52:07.000 --> 01:52:09.000]  What you got?
[01:52:09.000 --> 01:52:12.000]  My house payments are up to date.
[01:52:12.000 --> 01:52:16.000]  Everything's paid off and everything there.
[01:52:16.000 --> 01:52:17.000]  Hang on just a second.
[01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:22.000]  Okay. You say your house payments are up to date and then you said it's paid off.
[01:52:22.000 --> 01:52:24.000]  It's one or the other.
[01:52:24.000 --> 01:52:25.000]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[01:52:25.000 --> 01:52:26.000]  You're right.
[01:52:26.000 --> 01:52:27.000]  No, they are up to date.
[01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:28.000]  It is not paid.
[01:52:28.000 --> 01:52:29.000]  Okay.
[01:52:29.000 --> 01:52:30.000]  Okay.
[01:52:30.000 --> 01:52:31.000]  Okay.
[01:52:31.000 --> 01:52:34.000]  So my house payments are up to date.
[01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:48.000]  I have had in the past my mortgage company or what I like to call – they're just a mortgage servicing company.
[01:52:48.000 --> 01:52:49.000]  Right.
[01:52:49.000 --> 01:52:50.000]  Right.
[01:52:50.000 --> 01:52:52.000]  Try to –
[01:52:52.000 --> 01:52:55.000]  What company are we talking about?
[01:52:55.000 --> 01:52:58.000]  Bank of America, Chase.
[01:52:58.000 --> 01:52:59.000]  PNC.
[01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:01.000]  PNC.
[01:53:01.000 --> 01:53:02.000]  Your favorite friend.
[01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:03.000]  My favorite.
[01:53:03.000 --> 01:53:04.000]  Yeah.
[01:53:04.000 --> 01:53:11.000]  I've been fussing with PNC now for, I don't know, the last six – five, six years.
[01:53:11.000 --> 01:53:14.000]  I'm going on four years messing with them.
[01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:15.000]  Okay.
[01:53:15.000 --> 01:53:23.000]  My question is that, you know, I'm trying to figure out what I can do to sue these people.
[01:53:23.000 --> 01:53:30.000]  I'm a little nervous about going pro se with them because I'm not quite clear about, you know, the laws.
[01:53:30.000 --> 01:53:33.000]  I mean, as soon as you walk into a courtroom, everything English is –
[01:53:33.000 --> 01:53:35.000]  It goes out the window, doesn't it?
[01:53:35.000 --> 01:53:38.000]  It sounds like English.
[01:53:38.000 --> 01:53:41.000]  What are you looking to do?
[01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:44.000]  What's your status right now?
[01:53:44.000 --> 01:53:47.000]  I want to sue my mortgage company.
[01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:48.000]  For?
[01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:56.000]  For all of the money that I've put into this home and all of the legal fees and things that I've had to pay to keep my home.
[01:53:56.000 --> 01:54:02.000]  Okay. So far they haven't tried to foreclose on you, so right now all you've got is some suspicions.
[01:54:02.000 --> 01:54:06.000]  Is that – am I on point?
[01:54:06.000 --> 01:54:09.000]  No. They actually tried to foreclose on me.
[01:54:09.000 --> 01:54:13.000]  They actually tried to force a foreclosure on me in 2010.
[01:54:13.000 --> 01:54:14.000]  2010. Okay.
[01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:17.000]  Have they given up or are they pursuing?
[01:54:17.000 --> 01:54:20.000]  They had to give up because I paid them.
[01:54:20.000 --> 01:54:24.000]  What had happened is we had a bunch of storms roll through here in Denver,
[01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:29.000]  and my home got about $20,000 worth of damage done to it.
[01:54:29.000 --> 01:54:31.000]  Okay.
[01:54:31.000 --> 01:54:36.000]  And the insurance company wrote the check to me and TNC Mortgage.
[01:54:36.000 --> 01:54:38.000]  Right. They were the lien holder.
[01:54:38.000 --> 01:54:47.000]  Right. So TNC Mortgage, they didn't even give me enough of the money of that check to pay for the materials to repair my home.
[01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:51.000]  What did they do with the check? Did they apply it toward payments?
[01:54:51.000 --> 01:54:55.000]  No, sir, they did not, and I asked them to do that.
[01:54:55.000 --> 01:55:01.000]  However, they did hold about $9,000 of it.
[01:55:01.000 --> 01:55:10.000]  Did they give you a reason? Did they give you an itemized list of what their reasons were for holding that money?
[01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:13.000]  That was to repair your house, not line their pockets.
[01:55:13.000 --> 01:55:24.000]  Correct. What they told me was that as soon as I got – this is where I got into trouble with them – as soon as I got the home repairs done on my house,
[01:55:24.000 --> 01:55:29.000]  that they would have their inspector come out and look at it and release the check.
[01:55:29.000 --> 01:55:36.000]  And their inspector came out and looked at it, and everything was repaired up to code here in the county.
[01:55:36.000 --> 01:55:40.000]  Okay. So, so far the inspector is happy with it?
[01:55:40.000 --> 01:55:42.000]  Absolutely.
[01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:43.000]  Okay.
[01:55:43.000 --> 01:55:50.000]  They released just enough of my money to where I couldn't afford the payment in December.
[01:55:50.000 --> 01:55:59.000]  And then December, right before Christmas, they sent me a letter of intent to foreclose if I don't pay it.
[01:55:59.000 --> 01:56:04.000]  Okay. Did they pay off the vendor? Did they pay off the roofer, the contractor?
[01:56:04.000 --> 01:56:08.000]  No, I was the roofer. I was the contractor. I did all the work myself.
[01:56:08.000 --> 01:56:10.000]  Did they pay you?
[01:56:10.000 --> 01:56:12.000]  No, they did not.
[01:56:12.000 --> 01:56:17.000]  Did you present them with a bill for your time, your labor, your materials?
[01:56:17.000 --> 01:56:25.000]  I presented them the bill for the materials, but not the time. That was part of where I messed up at.
[01:56:25.000 --> 01:56:36.000]  Yeah, that's probably why they held those funds. They had a bill for materials, but they didn't have a bill for labor.
[01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:43.000]  Well, the deal was that the check was, the insurance money was supposed to be released to me,
[01:56:43.000 --> 01:56:53.000]  and then the insurance check was supposed to include the labor once their inspector got validation that all the work was done properly.
[01:56:53.000 --> 01:56:57.000]  You just told me that labor wasn't part of the bill.
[01:56:57.000 --> 01:57:02.000]  Well, no, it was part of the insurance, what the insurance company did.
[01:57:02.000 --> 01:57:12.000]  Right, but okay, they're going to hold, as the lien holder, or the alleged lien holder, I hate stipulating to anything,
[01:57:12.000 --> 01:57:22.000]  the alleged lien holder gets the check. When the work is done, the contractor, being you,
[01:57:22.000 --> 01:57:29.000]  would present the lien holder with a bill for materials and labor to apply the materials.
[01:57:29.000 --> 01:57:38.000]  If you did not put your time on there as labor, they're not going to pay you for it. That's free income for the bank.
[01:57:38.000 --> 01:57:46.000]  But it seems equitable for them to, I don't know if there's a statute that says they're supposed to,
[01:57:46.000 --> 01:57:53.000]  but it seems equitable to apply what was left to the note.
[01:57:53.000 --> 01:58:00.000]  And I hear the music in the background. Can we pick this up on the other side of the break?
[01:58:00.000 --> 01:58:02.000]  We're coming up to the top of the hour, and you'll have to sit through news.
[01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:03.000]  Certainly.
[01:58:03.000 --> 01:58:10.000]  Good deal. All right. We're talking to Troy in Colorado, and Troy will be back on the other side of the news.
[01:58:10.000 --> 01:58:16.000]  Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to Rule of Law Radio. Go to ruleoflawradio.com
[01:58:16.000 --> 01:58:25.000]  and look at all of the fine products that are available there on the website at his seminar and several others.
[01:58:25.000 --> 01:58:33.000]  This is Steve Skidmore sitting in for Randy Kelton, who I hope is enjoying himself and listening to his absence.
[01:58:33.000 --> 01:58:37.000]  Oh, that's right. He doesn't have Wi-Fi, so he can't hear this. He can't even pull up the archives.
[01:58:37.000 --> 01:58:42.000]  Anyway, sitting here with Joe Esquivel, a very knowledgeable man.
[01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:50.000]  I've got seven minutes to burn. On the other side, you can dial 5127.
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