ROL_2013-09-20_16k_Hr1-2.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:15.000]  You're listening to the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates, online at thelibertybeat.com.
[00:15.000 --> 00:17.000]  This is Justin Armand.
[00:17.000 --> 00:19.000]  And this is Jessica Armand.
[00:19.000 --> 00:24.000]  Here with your Liberty Beat for Friday, September 20, 2013.
[00:24.000 --> 00:36.000]  Gold opened today at $1,365, silver at $23.04, and Bitcoin is trading at $124.46.
[00:36.000 --> 00:44.000]  Support for the Liberty Beat comes from the first annual education conference being held on October 12 in Austin, Texas.
[00:44.000 --> 00:47.000]  If you are a parent, this is an event you do not want to miss.
[00:47.000 --> 00:51.000]  Register today at parentsforliberty.org.
[00:51.000 --> 00:52.000]  And now the news.
[00:52.000 --> 00:57.000]  A new federal document includes conspiracy theories as a sign of terrorist activity.
[00:57.000 --> 01:06.000]  The document entitled Potential Indicators for Terrorist Activities Related to Sleepers was released by the Bureau of Justice Assistance,
[01:06.000 --> 01:09.000]  a branch of the United States Department of Justice.
[01:09.000 --> 01:15.000]  Circulated to various law enforcement agencies across the nation, the document states that conspiracy theories,
[01:15.000 --> 01:20.000]  including those involving 9-11, could be a sign of membership in a terrorist sleeper cell.
[01:20.000 --> 01:28.000]  It additionally contains wording that those who oppose American foreign policy could also fall into the terrorist category.
[01:28.000 --> 01:36.000]  An ACLU report entitled Unleashed and Unaccountable describes the FBI as a secret domestic intelligence agency
[01:36.000 --> 01:45.000]  that has regularly overstepped the law, infringing on Americans' constitutional rights while overzealously pursuing its domestic security mission.
[01:45.000 --> 01:53.000]  A family in Germany just received their four children back that were removed weeks ago from their parents' home for the crime of homeschooling.
[01:53.000 --> 02:00.000]  Faced with permanently losing their children, Dirk and Petra Wunterlich were forced to agree to send their children to a German state public school.
[02:00.000 --> 02:05.000]  Dozens of supporters gathered outside the courthouse to show solidarity with the Wunterlich family.
[02:05.000 --> 02:09.000]  Germany outlawed homeschooling during the unification of the state in 1871.
[02:09.000 --> 02:13.000]  However, Hitler created harsh penalties for families that did not comply with the law.
[02:13.000 --> 02:15.000]  These penalties are still in place today.
[02:15.000 --> 02:21.000]  In Portland, Oregon, government schools were locking children in padded cells without parental knowledge or consent.
[02:21.000 --> 02:24.000]  A mother became so outraged that a new state law was passed,
[02:24.000 --> 02:31.000]  prohibiting schools from purchasing or using free-standing seclusion cells, or isolation booths, as they are called.
[02:31.000 --> 02:36.000]  As the new regulations are taking effect, schools are scrambling for a way around the provisions,
[02:36.000 --> 02:40.000]  so they can continue to place students in solitary confinement at their discretion.
[02:40.000 --> 02:48.000]  School administrators are defending isolation cells, stating that they have therapeutic purposes for some children.
[02:48.000 --> 02:50.000]  You've been listening to the Liberty Beat.
[02:50.000 --> 03:11.000]  Remember, freeing your mind is freeing our world.
[03:20.000 --> 03:27.000]  What you gonna do? What you gonna do?
[03:27.000 --> 03:30.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do?
[03:30.000 --> 03:32.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:32.000 --> 03:35.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do?
[03:35.000 --> 03:38.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:38.000 --> 03:43.000]  When you were eight and you had bad traits, you'd go to school and learn the golden rule.
[03:43.000 --> 03:46.000]  So why are you acting like a bloody fool?
[03:46.000 --> 03:50.000]  And if you get pissed then you must get to school!
[03:50.000 --> 03:52.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do?
[03:52.000 --> 03:54.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:54.000 --> 03:57.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do?
[03:57.000 --> 04:00.000]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[04:00.000 --> 04:03.000]  You chuck it on that one, you chuck it on that one.
[04:03.000 --> 04:06.000]  You chuck it on your mother and you chuck it on your father.
[04:06.000 --> 04:08.000]  You chuck it on your brother and you chuck it on your sister.
[04:08.000 --> 04:11.000]  You chuck it on that one and you chuck it on me!
[04:11.000 --> 04:13.880]  Bad boys, bad boys, what'che gonna do?
[04:14.200 --> 04:16.560]  What'ché gonna do when they come for you?
[04:16.560 --> 04:19.420]  Bad boys, bad boys, what'ché gonna do?
[04:19.660 --> 04:21.960]  What'ché gonna do when they come for you?
[04:21.960 --> 04:25.060]  Bad boys, bad boys, what'ché gonna do?
[04:25.060 --> 04:27.340]  What'ché gonna do when they come for you?
[04:27.360 --> 04:29.460]  Okay, okay. The bad boys are back.
[04:30.200 --> 04:31.760]  Randy Kelton, Joe Escobel,
[04:33.580 --> 04:40.160]  here with Rule of Law Radio on our four hour info marathon,
[04:40.160 --> 04:47.320]  I hope that tongue-tangling is not going to be a sign of the whole show.
[04:47.320 --> 04:54.360]  We have a couple of issues that we want to address with Joe on this first half of the
[04:54.360 --> 04:56.560]  show.
[04:56.560 --> 04:59.400]  And Joe has a question from somewhere.
[04:59.400 --> 05:03.120]  Joe, will you address the question?
[05:03.120 --> 05:13.000]  The question was, where civil statutes provide that a civil act a party commits is a crime
[05:13.000 --> 05:21.440]  as you find in the penal code, and where one meets civil proof by preponderance, but would
[05:21.440 --> 05:25.020]  you need to prove beyond any reasonable doubt?
[05:25.020 --> 05:31.120]  And would one need a civil attorney or a criminal attorney or both?
[05:31.120 --> 05:37.160]  Okay, that is obviously not your question.
[05:37.160 --> 05:38.160]  That's not mine.
[05:38.160 --> 05:39.520]  That was given to me.
[05:39.520 --> 05:42.320]  And I said, well, let me check with Brandy.
[05:42.320 --> 05:48.640]  Well, the question itself is multifarious and correct.
[05:48.640 --> 05:58.840]  It is fraught with presuppositions where civil statutes provide that a civil act a party
[05:58.840 --> 06:02.080]  commits is a crime.
[06:02.080 --> 06:08.640]  I don't know what that could be referring to other than RICO.
[06:08.640 --> 06:14.520]  Otherwise, civil is civil and criminal is criminal.
[06:14.520 --> 06:22.920]  The only time the two tend to mix at the court level is in a RICO action, where in a RICO
[06:22.920 --> 06:32.880]  action, you can through civil discovery, discover information that in a criminal case would
[06:32.880 --> 06:40.600]  not be discoverable by this method, because it would go to Fifth Amendment, and then you
[06:40.600 --> 06:46.400]  can use that civil discovery to pursue criminal prosecution.
[06:46.400 --> 06:53.920]  Well, normally civil and criminal is separate.
[06:53.920 --> 06:56.760]  And I can give an example.
[06:56.760 --> 07:06.760]  We file a civil action claiming that the lender at closing committed fraud per se in that
[07:06.760 --> 07:13.280]  he made statements to the borrower that were untrue.
[07:13.280 --> 07:17.320]  Statements that he knew were untrue.
[07:17.320 --> 07:25.280]  Statements concerning information that the lender knew the borrower did not have equal
[07:25.280 --> 07:28.520]  access to.
[07:28.520 --> 07:34.640]  The lender intended that the borrower take the statements that were made as true.
[07:34.640 --> 07:39.280]  The borrower did take the statements as true and was harmed thereby.
[07:39.280 --> 07:45.560]  Okay, that's the cause of action for fraud per se.
[07:45.560 --> 07:52.080]  But fraud per se is a crime under the penal code.
[07:52.080 --> 07:55.640]  You would not mix those two.
[07:55.640 --> 08:02.560]  And this is an issue that I'm working up a program to address, because I'm talking to
[08:02.560 --> 08:08.400]  some people, some larger companies that deal in securities trading.
[08:08.400 --> 08:16.040]  And when I talk to the head of the company, and I look at what's going on, and I'm saying,
[08:16.040 --> 08:17.040]  what the heck is this crap?
[08:17.040 --> 08:19.040]  These guys ought to go to jail for this.
[08:19.040 --> 08:22.800]  And he says, oh, no, no, no, we can't file.
[08:22.800 --> 08:27.680]  If we're in civil court, we can't file criminal charges.
[08:27.680 --> 08:29.640]  And I ask him, who told you that?
[08:29.640 --> 08:32.240]  Oh, our lawyers, our lawyers.
[08:32.240 --> 08:38.160]  They say you can't use criminal to gain leverage in a civil trial.
[08:38.160 --> 08:47.240]  Yeah, but what does that have to do with doing your duty under 18 U.S. Code 4 and 37, Texas
[08:47.240 --> 08:50.240]  Penal Code 37171?
[08:50.240 --> 08:54.640]  Those are statutory requirements to report crime, just because you can sue the guy for
[08:54.640 --> 09:03.840]  what he did to you doesn't protect him from criminal prosecution.
[09:03.840 --> 09:09.160]  And the guy sitting there listening to me, and the sense of that is making, you know,
[09:09.160 --> 09:16.440]  it's making absolute sense that it's a problem for a lawyer to tell you not to file criminal
[09:16.440 --> 09:17.440]  charges.
[09:17.440 --> 09:19.480]  Here's the deal.
[09:19.480 --> 09:26.000]  If you have knowledge that a felony has been committed in Texas, and the felony involves
[09:26.000 --> 09:33.760]  bodily injury or potential bodily injury, if you don't report that, you can be prosecuted.
[09:33.760 --> 09:43.560]  So, for anyone to say you can't report a criminal because you're doing civil, now what you can't
[09:43.560 --> 09:52.760]  do is make reference to the criminal accusations in the civil court.
[09:52.760 --> 09:59.120]  You act like they're not there, and if the other side mentions the criminal accusations,
[09:59.120 --> 10:06.600]  you immediately move for sanctions, move for mistrial, because the lawyer contaminated
[10:06.600 --> 10:11.520]  the court by mixing criminal with civil.
[10:11.520 --> 10:14.080]  You can't do it naked either.
[10:14.080 --> 10:16.160]  So the only thing you need to do is not mention it.
[10:16.160 --> 10:21.220]  So the point of that is, is the question is unclear.
[10:21.220 --> 10:27.560]  If it's not a RICO case, and if it, if it was a RICO case, then this question wouldn't
[10:27.560 --> 10:34.280]  come up, but it's clearly not a RICO case, so the only way I could answer that part is
[10:34.280 --> 10:38.480]  the criminal is criminal, the civil is civil, and don't mix the two.
[10:38.480 --> 10:39.480]  Okay.
[10:39.480 --> 10:40.480]  Okay.
[10:40.480 --> 10:47.700]  Now, would you need a civil attorney, criminal attorney, or both?
[10:47.700 --> 10:50.560]  You would not need a criminal attorney, period.
[10:50.560 --> 10:54.600]  The only time you need a criminal attorney is when you are defending yourself against
[10:54.600 --> 10:58.480]  a criminal action.
[10:58.480 --> 11:08.840]  Prosecution of a criminal act is vested in the county and district attorney, period.
[11:08.840 --> 11:16.960]  Prior to 1865, we had citizens prosecuted crime.
[11:16.960 --> 11:21.680]  If somebody committed a crime against you, you'd hire a lawyer and he would prosecute
[11:21.680 --> 11:24.160]  the crime.
[11:24.160 --> 11:36.240]  In 1865, the legislature vested sole jurisdiction for the prosecution of crime into state prosecutors,
[11:36.240 --> 11:38.680]  state and federal prosecutors.
[11:38.680 --> 11:45.360]  So you and I no longer have standing to prosecute a crime, and I better understood that after
[11:45.360 --> 11:47.360]  I came back from Australia.
[11:47.360 --> 11:58.920]  In Australia, a citizen can file a criminal complaint as a common law public official,
[11:58.920 --> 12:06.800]  and in that regard, he has standing concerning the prosecution of the criminal case.
[12:06.800 --> 12:12.480]  If the prosecution doesn't pursue prosecution, he's got standing to go to a court for writ
[12:12.480 --> 12:18.160]  mandamus and take other actions through the court to force prosecution.
[12:18.160 --> 12:20.760]  We don't have that here.
[12:20.760 --> 12:25.040]  So the criminal and the civil are absolutely separate.
[12:25.040 --> 12:31.840]  You cannot prosecute a criminal accusation, period, so you wouldn't need a criminal attorney
[12:31.840 --> 12:32.840]  for that.
[12:32.840 --> 12:35.640]  Does that kind of answer the question?
[12:35.640 --> 12:37.280]  I believe so.
[12:37.280 --> 12:38.280]  Thank you.
[12:38.280 --> 12:39.280]  You are welcome.
[12:39.280 --> 12:44.840]  So now, how can I answer your question that you have for me?
[12:44.840 --> 12:45.840]  Okay.
[12:45.840 --> 12:53.320]  In reading your evaluations and listening to your presentations, you talk about the
[12:53.320 --> 12:58.160]  lender selling a portion of the note.
[12:58.160 --> 13:02.640]  A portion of the mortgage loan instrument.
[13:02.640 --> 13:04.320]  Mortgage loan instrument.
[13:04.320 --> 13:05.320]  Correct.
[13:05.320 --> 13:10.600]  Well, I was reading through the section in the Truth in Lending Act.
[13:10.600 --> 13:13.560]  I should have had the number in front of me.
[13:13.560 --> 13:17.320]  It's, I think it's, I forget.
[13:17.320 --> 13:21.600]  15 U.S.C. Chapter 47, 1021 F?
[13:21.600 --> 13:25.120]  No, I don't think so.
[13:25.120 --> 13:30.600]  It's the section that requires the reporting of a change in...
[13:30.600 --> 13:31.600]  Correct.
[13:31.600 --> 13:32.600] ...beneficial interest.
[13:32.600 --> 13:33.600]  Okay.
[13:33.600 --> 13:34.600]  Is that the one?
[13:34.600 --> 13:35.600]  Yeah, that's it.
[13:35.600 --> 13:36.600]  Okay.
[13:36.600 --> 13:48.360]  In the notations to that, the drafter's notations stated that the only thing of value in the
[13:48.360 --> 13:54.640]  mortgage is the beneficial interest in the note.
[13:54.640 --> 14:05.280]  So I'd always had this concern about how do you take this instrument, the mortgage instrument,
[14:05.280 --> 14:08.160]  and sell a portion of it?
[14:08.160 --> 14:11.480]  How do you deal out these portions?
[14:11.480 --> 14:15.600]  What are the mechanics of actually doing that?
[14:15.600 --> 14:24.400]  And in reading that section in the notes, it's clear by the drafters that they intended
[14:24.400 --> 14:36.080]  that the beneficial interest in the instrument is the, I'm sorry, the only thing of value
[14:36.080 --> 14:42.480]  in the interest in the instrument is the beneficial interest in the income stream.
[14:42.480 --> 14:44.000]  The promise to pay.
[14:44.000 --> 14:45.000]  The promise to pay.
[14:45.000 --> 14:46.000]  The promise to pay.
[14:46.000 --> 14:47.000]  Nothing else has value.
[14:47.000 --> 14:48.000]  Correct.
[14:48.000 --> 14:51.000]  So how do you sell that?
[14:51.000 --> 14:52.760]  Oh, that's legal.
[14:52.760 --> 14:53.760]  All right.
[14:53.760 --> 14:54.760]  No, wait.
[14:54.760 --> 14:55.760]  Okay.
[14:55.760 --> 15:01.840]  How is it possible to sell that because the courts have held that the mortgage follows
[15:01.840 --> 15:03.760]  the note?
[15:03.760 --> 15:08.920]  If the mortgage follows the note, when you sell the note, you can't sell the mortgage.
[15:08.920 --> 15:09.920]  It don't have any...
[15:09.920 --> 15:10.920]  I'm sorry.
[15:10.920 --> 15:11.920]  You can't sell the security instrument.
[15:11.920 --> 15:12.920]  It don't have any value.
[15:12.920 --> 15:13.920]  Correct.
[15:13.920 --> 15:16.000]  So it follows the note.
[15:16.000 --> 15:17.000]  So this guy's...
[15:17.000 --> 15:18.000]  The properly secured note.
[15:18.000 --> 15:28.000]  The way I'm getting to that, whether it's properly secured or not, that security instrument
[15:28.000 --> 15:31.720]  follows the note when he sells the beneficial interest.
[15:31.720 --> 15:36.080]  When he negotiates the beneficial interest of another person, the note follows automatically.
[15:36.080 --> 15:38.400]  This is what the courts are saying.
[15:38.400 --> 15:39.400]  Okay.
[15:39.400 --> 15:49.680]  So that's the case if the lender sold the note before he came to the clerk and filed
[15:49.680 --> 15:54.480]  the security instrument in the record.
[15:54.480 --> 15:58.000]  He no longer held it.
[15:58.000 --> 15:59.000]  Okay.
[15:59.000 --> 16:07.040]  If he did hold it, then the security instrument does not follow the note.
[16:07.040 --> 16:09.640]  We can't have both.
[16:09.640 --> 16:10.640]  All right.
[16:10.640 --> 16:12.320]  Let's break it apart a little bit.
[16:12.320 --> 16:13.320]  Okay.
[16:13.320 --> 16:23.120]  One, what we were talking about to start is under 15 USC chapter 41, 1641 G, and that's
[16:23.120 --> 16:25.720]  under notice of new creditor.
[16:25.720 --> 16:28.280]  All right.
[16:28.280 --> 16:32.280]  So that's where you're going to find that statute where it talks about in addition to
[16:32.280 --> 16:38.540]  other disclosures required by the sub-chapter, not later than 30 days after the date on which
[16:38.540 --> 16:44.120]  a mortgage loan is sold or otherwise transferred or assigned to a third party, the creditor
[16:44.120 --> 16:48.640]  that is the new owner or assigning of the debt shall notify the borrower in writing
[16:48.640 --> 16:55.600]  out such transfer, including, and then we go down to A, B, C, D, and E, the identity,
[16:55.600 --> 17:00.560]  the date, how to reach the agent, the location where the transfer.
[17:00.560 --> 17:05.200]  Through advances in technology, our lives have greatly improved, except in the area
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[19:25.520 --> 19:45.120]  Okay, we are back, we had to go Esquivel, and we don't know how we talked over the break,
[19:45.120 --> 19:47.640]  but we're not going to tell Debra we did that.
[19:47.640 --> 19:51.720]  If we do that, it'll get real ugly around here.
[19:51.720 --> 19:56.800]  Debra is a really good producer, she don't like us screwing up.
[19:56.800 --> 20:06.160]  Okay, we were talking about how to sell a portion of the note.
[20:06.160 --> 20:07.520]  Correct.
[20:07.520 --> 20:09.760]  Have not figured that one out.
[20:09.760 --> 20:19.720]  Well, all right, actually, it's legal to sell the payment string.
[20:19.720 --> 20:22.120]  That falls under Article 9.
[20:22.120 --> 20:26.480]  But how is the payment stream not the whole thing?
[20:26.480 --> 20:28.480]  Well, that's simple.
[20:28.480 --> 20:33.080]  All right, we talked last week about definitions.
[20:33.080 --> 20:38.880]  The definition of the tangible promissory note, all right, is a piece of paper that
[20:38.880 --> 20:47.600]  can be touched, felt, bent, played with, all right, signed.
[20:47.600 --> 20:55.720]  Now that note evidences legal description of debt.
[20:55.720 --> 21:02.220]  It is that promise to pay that gives value, all right?
[21:02.220 --> 21:04.800]  So that's the tangible promissory note.
[21:04.800 --> 21:10.160]  You then have the deed of trust, which is we have here in state of Texas, and the deed
[21:10.160 --> 21:18.800]  of trust is the security instrument, which attaches itself to the debt.
[21:18.800 --> 21:27.160]  And when filed of record index recorded at the county recorder's office, all right, there
[21:27.160 --> 21:34.160]  then is a perfection of lien and an encumbrance that's been properly perfected.
[21:34.160 --> 21:38.040]  Okay, that's where I'm going to.
[21:38.040 --> 21:39.040]  I know.
[21:39.040 --> 21:42.720]  So then let's take it apart a little bit.
[21:42.720 --> 21:54.640]  So your question was, how can they sell a piece of this mortgage loan instrument?
[21:54.640 --> 22:02.120]  Because it's comprised of the tangible promissory note, your promise to pay, which is the economic
[22:02.120 --> 22:08.160]  payment stream, payment and tangible obligation, and then your security instrument being either
[22:08.160 --> 22:12.440]  a mortgage deed of trust or if you're in Georgia, a security deed.
[22:12.440 --> 22:22.560]  Now let's just take a minute and imagine that you own a strip shopping center in Poladonk.
[22:22.560 --> 22:23.920]  Okay, wait, wait.
[22:23.920 --> 22:28.800]  I don't understand the factoring part.
[22:28.800 --> 22:29.800]  Correct.
[22:29.800 --> 22:32.760]  But this is different.
[22:32.760 --> 22:34.440]  Well it's not different.
[22:34.440 --> 22:39.080]  You're selling an interest.
[22:39.080 --> 22:45.760]  You're selling a portion of the mortgage loan instrument, which is legal.
[22:45.760 --> 22:54.240]  When the guy sells the right to collect the payments, he has sold the whole thing.
[22:54.240 --> 22:56.320]  How do you figure that?
[22:56.320 --> 23:03.280]  That's like saying, I'm going to sell you my automobile, but I'm only going to give you
[23:03.280 --> 23:05.960]  the part that makes you go is the accelerator pedal.
[23:05.960 --> 23:07.440]  Heck, you don't need to rest.
[23:07.440 --> 23:11.040]  Okay, well then they are one piece.
[23:11.040 --> 23:12.640]  No, it's not.
[23:12.640 --> 23:14.200]  It's two pieces.
[23:14.200 --> 23:20.360]  Look at when you own a strip shopping center and you've got five stores, all right.
[23:20.360 --> 23:28.480]  Now within these stores, you have tenants that you have leases with.
[23:28.480 --> 23:32.640]  Those leases are payment strings, are they not?
[23:32.640 --> 23:33.640]  Yes.
[23:33.640 --> 23:34.640]  Okay.
[23:34.640 --> 23:41.560]  Now you fall in on hard times and your creditors are coming after you, all right, and you don't
[23:41.560 --> 23:43.360]  know what to do.
[23:43.360 --> 23:50.200]  Suddenly one night you just have a polythera of ideas and you have a brainstorm and you
[23:50.200 --> 23:55.000]  say, wait a minute, I've got these payment streams coming in.
[23:55.000 --> 24:02.280]  I can sell these payment streams and you do, and it's legal under Article 9.
[24:02.280 --> 24:03.760]  You can sell the payment streams.
[24:03.760 --> 24:10.720]  Now, wait a minute, you still on the brick and mortar building.
[24:10.720 --> 24:17.160]  So now let's just take it a little bit and take this tangible promissory note.
[24:17.160 --> 24:23.040]  The paper itself is personal property, all right.
[24:23.040 --> 24:26.760]  Fine, you own a piece of paper.
[24:26.760 --> 24:34.960]  It is the debt that is evidenced by this paper, which has value, which a security instrument
[24:34.960 --> 24:37.200]  attaches to.
[24:37.200 --> 24:45.800]  It is this right to future payments that is bought and sold every day.
[24:45.800 --> 24:59.840]  Now I can sell you an interest of this mortgage loan instrument and yes, under UCC 312 there
[24:59.840 --> 25:05.280]  is a temporary perfection of this secured interest.
[25:05.280 --> 25:09.040]  That perfection is for 20 days.
[25:09.040 --> 25:21.880]  Now on day 21 by operation of law, had you not properly secured the tangible to the intangible,
[25:21.880 --> 25:27.480]  then this obligation would become an unsecured obligation.
[25:27.480 --> 25:31.880]  And once Humpty Dumpty has fallen off the wall, you can't put them back together again.
[25:31.880 --> 25:43.720]  Okay, I'm suggesting that if you sell the rights to collect the income stream and you
[25:43.720 --> 25:56.120]  sell in excess of 50% of the right to collect the income stream, the rights to the security
[25:56.120 --> 26:01.080]  instrument move with that sale.
[26:01.080 --> 26:02.080]  This just doesn't make any sense.
[26:02.080 --> 26:06.680]  It's a presupposition that these are somehow separate entities.
[26:06.680 --> 26:08.560]  I don't see how they are.
[26:08.560 --> 26:12.360]  The only thing that's of value is that income stream.
[26:12.360 --> 26:13.360]  Correct.
[26:13.360 --> 26:19.680]  So if I tell you the income stream, that is all I sell you, period.
[26:19.680 --> 26:20.680]  You can't.
[26:20.680 --> 26:24.000]  How can you separate something that can't be separated?
[26:24.000 --> 26:26.720]  And that's what Kortz said.
[26:26.720 --> 26:28.800]  These two go together.
[26:28.800 --> 26:31.000]  You can't sell one and not the other.
[26:31.000 --> 26:37.160]  And we've had cases thrown out based on bifurcation because they say you can't make that claim
[26:37.160 --> 26:42.640]  because the deed of trust, the security instrument follows the note.
[26:42.640 --> 26:43.640]  And that's how it is.
[26:43.640 --> 26:44.640]  That's how it should be.
[26:44.640 --> 26:49.600]  Hey, Randy, can I add something here?
[26:49.600 --> 26:55.160]  Bifurcation covers more than the separation of the note from the deed of trust.
[26:55.160 --> 26:59.560]  The intangible income stream has been bifurcated.
[26:59.560 --> 27:05.080]  The intangible income stream is the only thing of any value.
[27:05.080 --> 27:09.760]  The only thing that can be sold is the mortgage.
[27:09.760 --> 27:13.280]  Listen, I'm going to read this to you.
[27:13.280 --> 27:18.960]  In commercial money center bankruptcy, the Ninth Circuit Appellate Court had no difficulty
[27:18.960 --> 27:23.880]  in concluding that the rights to the intangible payment stream can be stripped from the records
[27:23.880 --> 27:28.720]  that evidence them, end quote.
[27:28.720 --> 27:32.120]  From the commercial money center, I'm not going to...
[27:32.120 --> 27:37.720]  From this actual case, it states, the language on its face defines channel paper to mean
[27:37.720 --> 27:43.800]  the records that evidence certain things, including monetary obligations.
[27:43.800 --> 27:50.200]  Payment streams stripped from the underlying leases are not records that evidence monetary
[27:50.200 --> 27:51.200]  obligations.
[27:51.200 --> 27:55.680]  These are the monetary obligations.
[27:55.680 --> 27:58.000]  They are the monetary obligations.
[27:58.000 --> 27:59.000]  Okay.
[27:59.000 --> 28:09.080]  So, you're misconstruing what is being said because if you go to 3203D, which states,
[28:09.080 --> 28:14.520]  if the transfer purports to transfer less than the entire instrument, negotiation does
[28:14.520 --> 28:15.920]  not take place.
[28:15.920 --> 28:20.440]  The transferee obtains no rights under this chapter and has only the rights of a partial
[28:20.440 --> 28:21.440]  assignee.
[28:21.440 --> 28:31.840]  So, unless the mortgage loan instrument in its entirety is sold, negotiated, and transferred,
[28:31.840 --> 28:35.300]  there is no negotiation.
[28:35.300 --> 28:38.800]  It's like selling credit card debt.
[28:38.800 --> 28:42.280]  They sell the debt, it's unsecured.
[28:42.280 --> 28:53.080]  This is why in bankruptcy, all right, you've got the BK Rule 3001 Subsection D as in dog.
[28:53.080 --> 29:03.840]  If a party claims, is coming forth as a holder of a secured interest of a security instrument,
[29:03.840 --> 29:10.400]  they must be evidenced by a properly perfected lien.
[29:10.400 --> 29:21.120]  The Bank of America, when they came to court, they claimed to be plaintiff against me.
[29:21.120 --> 29:23.440]  I challenged that.
[29:23.440 --> 29:31.240]  They could not prove that they had a properly secured lien prior to me filing bankruptcy.
[29:31.240 --> 29:38.400]  So, how does one perfect a lien in Texas?
[29:38.400 --> 29:41.040]  But we'll get into that.
[29:41.040 --> 29:47.960]  Everybody would like you to call in at 512-646-1984.
[29:47.960 --> 29:50.520]  We got a lot of time in the next couple of hours.
[29:50.520 --> 29:51.520]  Take your phone calls.
[29:51.520 --> 29:54.640]  This is Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, and Deborah Stevens.
[29:54.640 --> 30:02.480]  We'll be right back.
[30:02.480 --> 30:04.600]  Move over beef, lamb, and pork.
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[31:18.480 --> 31:19.480]  No kidding.
[31:19.480 --> 31:21.320]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
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[33:58.640 --> 34:12.680]  Okay, we are back, Red Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Joe Esquivel, Rue of La Radio, and we're talking
[34:12.680 --> 34:24.120]  about the difference between negotiation, transfer, factoring, and what all of these
[34:24.120 --> 34:25.120]  mean.
[34:25.120 --> 34:34.560]  And what I'm trying to reconcile here are some court cases that we've had where the
[34:34.560 --> 34:44.000]  lender has apparently separated the note from the security instrument and the complainant
[34:44.000 --> 34:50.320]  goes in and raises this as an issue and the court says, ah, that's nonsense.
[34:50.320 --> 34:56.800]  The note, the security instrument follows the note.
[34:56.800 --> 35:11.040]  So if the security instrument follows the note, then what constitutes a sale of a piece
[35:11.040 --> 35:16.640]  of the note as opposed to a negotiation?
[35:16.640 --> 35:19.840]  It's just a sale of an obligation.
[35:19.840 --> 35:21.240]  That's not saying anything.
[35:21.240 --> 35:22.240]  That's what the note is.
[35:22.240 --> 35:23.240]  It is an obligation.
[35:23.240 --> 35:24.240]  No, it is not.
[35:24.240 --> 35:29.600]  The note is paper that evidences the obligation.
[35:29.600 --> 35:36.120]  So you're saying that you can throw away the evidence and the obligation still exists.
[35:36.120 --> 35:37.120]  Correct.
[35:37.120 --> 35:38.120]  Nonsense.
[35:38.120 --> 35:43.120]  If you have no evidence of an obligation, there is no obligation.
[35:43.120 --> 35:47.560]  Again, look to what was sold.
[35:47.560 --> 35:48.560]  That's what I'm looking to.
[35:48.560 --> 35:55.800]  And according to the crafters of the Truth in Lending Act, the only thing of value is
[35:55.800 --> 35:57.280]  the income stream.
[35:57.280 --> 35:58.280]  Okay.
[35:58.280 --> 36:00.760]  How do they sell credit card debt?
[36:00.760 --> 36:04.160]  How do you back up the debt?
[36:04.160 --> 36:05.160]  They sell the debt.
[36:05.160 --> 36:07.800]  Wait a minute.
[36:07.800 --> 36:10.480]  They don't just sell the right to be paid.
[36:10.480 --> 36:13.560]  They have to sell them the whole thing.
[36:13.560 --> 36:17.480]  They're not, and that's why these guys are losing when people go in and challenge because
[36:17.480 --> 36:19.040]  what they're doing is illegal.
[36:19.040 --> 36:22.360]  They're not challenging on the correct argument.
[36:22.360 --> 36:24.160]  That's the difference.
[36:24.160 --> 36:31.720]  When you bring forth the correct argument and go under 3203D, where we're talking about
[36:31.720 --> 36:36.760]  negotiation, transfer, and delivery because, Randy, there's only one statute within the
[36:36.760 --> 36:44.640]  entire Uniform Commercial Code or the state's equivalence, only one statute that goes to
[36:44.640 --> 36:49.640]  rights acquired by transfer, only one.
[36:49.640 --> 36:56.040]  You need to go to 3203, unless you're in State New York and you're going to go to 3202 because
[36:56.040 --> 37:01.860]  they're using 1961 UCC.
[37:01.860 --> 37:03.480]  So I understand what you're saying.
[37:03.480 --> 37:11.440]  The problem is that the arguments are not being brought forth with specificity and particularity.
[37:11.440 --> 37:18.720]  They need to go to three, they need to go to 751 for negotiation and delivery.
[37:18.720 --> 37:25.680]  They need to also use 3115 for incomplete instrument.
[37:25.680 --> 37:32.800]  So I understand what you are saying, Joe, why are they doing this, greed, ease of work?
[37:32.800 --> 37:37.440]  Well, I understand why they're doing it.
[37:37.440 --> 37:41.600]  What I'm trying to get to is the legal effect.
[37:41.600 --> 37:45.500]  Who actually has the standing?
[37:45.500 --> 37:55.260]  No one has standing because in order for one to be peaked, person entitled to enforce,
[37:55.260 --> 38:04.960]  one must have all three parts, which constitute the mortgage loan instrument.
[38:04.960 --> 38:09.860]  Without having all three parts, there is no holder in due course.
[38:09.860 --> 38:12.440]  You have only a partial cause of action.
[38:12.440 --> 38:21.800]  So unless your name is on the payee line of the tangible promissory note, unless you are
[38:21.800 --> 38:29.320]  the party with sole interest claiming that intangible payment obligation, and unless
[38:29.320 --> 38:36.640]  your name is in public record and in a timely fashion, one cannot come forth and claim holder
[38:36.640 --> 38:39.280]  in due course.
[38:39.280 --> 38:45.640]  This is why when I was in court and I moved the court and I asked the court, I'd like
[38:45.640 --> 38:51.200]  to ask opposing counsel for the record, on the record, under penalty of perjury, I asked
[38:51.200 --> 38:55.600]  opposing counsel, whom are you representing in court today?
[38:55.600 --> 39:03.000]  Are you representing the creditor or are you representing the holder in due course?
[39:03.000 --> 39:05.720]  And they're looking at me like I'm crazy.
[39:05.720 --> 39:08.760]  So I said it a second time.
[39:08.760 --> 39:13.540]  And I said it a third time, and after the third time, the judge says, Mr. Esquivel,
[39:13.540 --> 39:16.320]  you know he cannot answer that question today.
[39:16.320 --> 39:20.040]  I said, Your Honor, what are we doing in court?
[39:20.040 --> 39:24.200]  We now got a continuance 30 days.
[39:24.200 --> 39:29.040]  We know what can or cannot be done.
[39:29.040 --> 39:37.000]  However, until the judges have the correct arguments in front of them, they make the
[39:37.000 --> 39:41.480]  rulings based on what is put in front of them.
[39:41.480 --> 39:43.040]  That's what they're supposed to do.
[39:43.040 --> 39:45.440]  Now, yes, you're right.
[39:45.440 --> 39:49.560]  Many times they rule outside of color of law.
[39:49.560 --> 39:51.980]  You're right.
[39:51.980 --> 40:01.680]  But if we could get them the information that they need in the correct format with specificity
[40:01.680 --> 40:06.440]  and particularity, I believe there are many judges out there because I know I'm seeing
[40:06.440 --> 40:12.960]  results of these cases going to court and bringing forth the correct argument.
[40:12.960 --> 40:15.860]  And there are getting favorable responses.
[40:15.860 --> 40:23.060]  The courts are starting to look at them because instead of bringing a multifarious argument,
[40:23.060 --> 40:26.120]  you're bringing one argument.
[40:26.120 --> 40:29.520]  Did this take place according to statutory requirements of law?
[40:29.520 --> 40:30.520]  Yes, no.
[40:30.520 --> 40:31.520]  Okay.
[40:31.520 --> 40:39.080]  Yeah, this is where I'm going with that is I'm looking at the filing of the security
[40:39.080 --> 40:44.760]  instrument in the county record.
[40:44.760 --> 40:55.480]  If at closing, the lender either negotiated the note to someone else or never owned it
[40:55.480 --> 41:02.480]  to start with, where he was a- Are we talking about the tangible promissory
[41:02.480 --> 41:03.480]  note?
[41:03.480 --> 41:08.320]  I'm only talking about the one they signed at court.
[41:08.320 --> 41:15.520]  This is really hard if you're the tangible note, the right to pay everything at closing.
[41:15.520 --> 41:16.520]  Okay.
[41:16.520 --> 41:17.840]  He signed a note.
[41:17.840 --> 41:21.240]  Did he own that?
[41:21.240 --> 41:27.840]  He said he owned it and we're saying he didn't do a proper negotiation.
[41:27.840 --> 41:35.680]  Well, he may not have needed to because he never owned it to start with.
[41:35.680 --> 41:38.360]  Someone else owned it.
[41:38.360 --> 41:41.400]  Someone else actually funded the loan.
[41:41.400 --> 41:49.160]  Someone else owned the note when he sold it, so the lender only brokers the deal.
[41:49.160 --> 41:51.280]  You're right.
[41:51.280 --> 41:56.560]  Presenting himself as a lender, but he's actually only a broker.
[41:56.560 --> 42:02.280]  But see, that is where there's misconception when one says, well, Joe, they sold the note.
[42:02.280 --> 42:04.040]  I say, look at the note.
[42:04.040 --> 42:05.880]  Is there an endorsement on the note?
[42:05.880 --> 42:07.880]  Yes or no?
[42:07.880 --> 42:15.360]  Because that is the only way that negotiation transfer and delivery takes place, period.
[42:15.360 --> 42:16.360]  That's it.
[42:16.360 --> 42:17.360]  Okay.
[42:17.360 --> 42:18.360]  Good.
[42:18.360 --> 42:27.480]  Then if I have the- Well, that may be the reason we can't get them to produce the original
[42:27.480 --> 42:30.480]  note.
[42:30.480 --> 42:36.120]  If they bring a copy of the note to court- Okay.
[42:36.120 --> 42:38.800]  As it exists today- That's it.
[42:38.800 --> 42:40.280]  That was going to be my issue.
[42:40.280 --> 42:50.360]  If it does not have a negotiation on it or a launch permanently attached to it- With
[42:50.360 --> 42:54.680]  a paperclip?
[42:54.680 --> 42:58.280]  Depends on what they call permanently attached.
[42:58.280 --> 42:59.480]  Okay.
[42:59.480 --> 43:02.200]  Nothing the court will accept as permanently attached.
[43:02.200 --> 43:07.440]  If the court won't accept it as permanently attached, then it's not there.
[43:07.440 --> 43:18.920]  So if the court accepts the copy of the launch as permanently attached, then it shows a name
[43:18.920 --> 43:24.080]  different than the petitioner.
[43:24.080 --> 43:34.120]  Or if there is no a launch attached and there is no negotiation on the note itself, then
[43:34.120 --> 43:41.520]  I may legally come before the court and presume that the proper holder must be the name that
[43:41.520 --> 43:43.520]  is on the document.
[43:43.520 --> 43:44.520]  Yes.
[43:44.520 --> 43:46.560]  And you know what?
[43:46.560 --> 43:48.960]  We'll get that right after break.
[43:48.960 --> 43:56.640]  This is Joe Esquivel, Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Rule of Law Radio, and you can call
[43:56.640 --> 43:59.640]  at 512-646-9000.
[43:59.640 --> 44:08.080]  Hello, my name is Stuart Smith from naturespureorganics.com and I would like to invite you to come by our
[44:08.080 --> 44:13.640]  store at 9204 Guadalupe Street, Sweet D here in Austin, Texas on Brave New Books and Chase
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[45:59.840 --> 46:14.400]  Whoa, whoa, yeah.
[46:14.400 --> 46:33.360]  Always, I must be careful what I'm wishing for When I'm hungry, I like to know just what
[46:33.360 --> 46:41.360]  I'm fishing for I ain't asking for much I ain't trying to be no blood moon
[46:41.360 --> 46:51.280]  I'm just here making my living pushing buttons I get my message out to anyone who's out
[46:51.280 --> 46:53.280]  in the distance
[46:53.280 --> 46:59.560]  Okay, we are back with Randy Kelton, David Stevens, Wheel of Law Radio, and Joe's giving
[46:59.560 --> 47:02.560]  me a headache.
[47:02.560 --> 47:07.120]  This is a conversation I've been wanting to have a long time and I haven't had anybody
[47:07.120 --> 47:13.440]  I could have this sophisticated conversation with because where I'm trying to go with this
[47:13.440 --> 47:22.680]  is to show that the lender, if he negotiated that note to somebody else at closing or if
[47:22.680 --> 47:27.520]  he never held it in the first place, if somebody else funded the note and he was a pretender
[47:27.520 --> 47:35.640]  lender in a table funding situation, then the note changed hands immediately and then
[47:35.640 --> 47:42.680]  a week or two weeks later, he comes down to the county clerk and files a security instrument
[47:42.680 --> 47:46.440]  and I'm saying, whoa, hold on here.
[47:46.440 --> 47:49.320]  You no longer hold that security instrument.
[47:49.320 --> 47:55.680]  You should have done what I found in this case in Frisco where Washington Mutual held
[47:55.680 --> 48:03.280]  the note, Washington Mutual filed a release of lien in the record.
[48:03.280 --> 48:09.360]  And whoever the note was transferred to should have come back and filed a lien of their own
[48:09.360 --> 48:12.280]  in the record, correct?
[48:12.280 --> 48:14.240]  But they didn't do that.
[48:14.240 --> 48:20.800]  So I'm saying that the person who came down and filed the lien no longer held a note at
[48:20.800 --> 48:22.920]  the time they filed it.
[48:22.920 --> 48:30.560]  You'd have to show the, what you would have to show is that there was a sale prior to
[48:30.560 --> 48:33.680]  the filing of the security instrument.
[48:33.680 --> 48:34.680]  Okay.
[48:34.680 --> 48:37.720]  And I can imply that this way.
[48:37.720 --> 48:38.720]  Okay.
[48:38.720 --> 48:48.640]  The note was sold in December and the note was signed in December and the note shows
[48:48.640 --> 49:02.000]  to be in a pass-through trust that's closed for inclusion at the latest February.
[49:02.000 --> 49:03.000]  Okay.
[49:03.000 --> 49:08.200]  It's open for three months and that's another thing I want to get to as a question about
[49:08.200 --> 49:09.200]  that.
[49:09.200 --> 49:10.200]  All right.
[49:10.200 --> 49:17.760]  If it's only open for three months and the note was written in December, then they would
[49:17.760 --> 49:20.360]  have until February to put it in.
[49:20.360 --> 49:21.360]  To put it in.
[49:21.360 --> 49:28.680]  So it must've been in there within 45, 50 days, maybe 60 if it was written on the 1st
[49:28.680 --> 49:36.520]  of December to actually get it, I'm sorry, 90 days to get it into the pool.
[49:36.520 --> 49:40.360]  What was sold to the pool?
[49:40.360 --> 49:49.560]  Ah, I have to ask if they sold what, if you sell every bit of value in something.
[49:49.560 --> 49:50.560]  But they don't.
[49:50.560 --> 49:51.560]  They don't.
[49:51.560 --> 49:59.400]  The only thing of value according to the framers of the Truth in Learning Act is the promise
[49:59.400 --> 50:00.400]  to pay.
[50:00.400 --> 50:01.400]  Okay.
[50:01.400 --> 50:09.360]  So now when you stipulate what must be done and we know what was done, that's apples and
[50:09.360 --> 50:12.200]  oranges.
[50:12.200 --> 50:21.920]  So to make a presumption that they sold the note is probably going to be an error 90%
[50:21.920 --> 50:30.480]  of the time because it says the depositor shall sell, or it says actually many of these,
[50:30.480 --> 50:40.680]  it doesn't say sell, it says the depositor shall convey all interest in many of these.
[50:40.680 --> 50:49.240]  Now a sale is a conveyance, but is a conveyance a sale?
[50:49.240 --> 50:54.300]  The determining factor is a consideration given.
[50:54.300 --> 51:01.560]  So what consideration was given for what item that was purchased?
[51:01.560 --> 51:02.560]  Wait a minute.
[51:02.560 --> 51:10.800]  Consideration doesn't really have anything directly to do with what was actually sold.
[51:10.800 --> 51:15.640]  I could sell you my car for a consideration of a dollar if I wanted to.
[51:15.640 --> 51:16.640]  Correct.
[51:16.640 --> 51:21.120]  A hundred dollars or a thousand dollars, that really doesn't have anything to do with what
[51:21.120 --> 51:23.920]  I agreed to convey.
[51:23.920 --> 51:24.920]  Okay.
[51:24.920 --> 51:32.640]  The real argument I'm making here and before we're having the separation is, is the only
[51:32.640 --> 51:37.480]  thing of value in the note is the promise to pay.
[51:37.480 --> 51:38.480]  Correct.
[51:38.480 --> 51:46.040]  If that is sold or negotiated or conveyed, then the whole document is conveyed.
[51:46.040 --> 51:47.040]  And how you...
[51:47.040 --> 51:48.040]  You're assuming.
[51:48.040 --> 51:49.040]  You're assuming.
[51:49.040 --> 51:53.760]  That's it.
[51:53.760 --> 52:00.480]  If you sell more than 51% of the promise to pay.
[52:00.480 --> 52:01.480]  All right.
[52:01.480 --> 52:02.480]  Well, then all you're getting...
[52:02.480 --> 52:03.480]  Go back to 3203.
[52:03.480 --> 52:04.480]  Wait a minute.
[52:04.480 --> 52:05.480]  Let me finish.
[52:05.480 --> 52:10.680]  You no longer have right to stand as holder.
[52:10.680 --> 52:18.680]  So for you not to have right to stand as holder, the security instrument would have to follow
[52:18.680 --> 52:19.680]  that 51%.
[52:19.680 --> 52:30.880]  And to say I can sell a portion, I could factor out three, four, five years of payments.
[52:30.880 --> 52:39.800]  But if I factor out 15 years and one month of payments, I've sold a note.
[52:39.800 --> 52:44.000]  That other person now has the right to the protection of the security instrument, not
[52:44.000 --> 52:45.000]  me.
[52:45.000 --> 52:47.800]  No, they don't.
[52:47.800 --> 52:49.360]  Only a properly secured note.
[52:49.360 --> 52:54.400]  Go back to Covenant 20, where it states, this note or a partial interest of the note may
[52:54.400 --> 53:00.280]  be sold one or more times without notice to the borrower, together with the security instrument.
[53:00.280 --> 53:02.760]  Now that's fraud and a factum.
[53:02.760 --> 53:03.880]  Why?
[53:03.880 --> 53:09.240]  Because it's a legal impossibility and yet the homeowner wants a party to it.
[53:09.240 --> 53:11.520]  And this is where innocence of consciousness comes in.
[53:11.520 --> 53:12.520]  Okay.
[53:12.520 --> 53:17.520]  So when you said the note was sold, I understand.
[53:17.520 --> 53:23.840]  It's an assumption and it's an admission.
[53:23.840 --> 53:26.360]  But it's not an actuality.
[53:26.360 --> 53:33.720]  Well, you're saying that you have to sell the piece of paper, the allonge, the piece
[53:33.720 --> 53:42.440]  of paper with the security instrument, and whatever else all has to be bundled up into
[53:42.440 --> 53:44.240]  one package and say sold.
[53:44.240 --> 53:45.240]  Yes.
[53:45.240 --> 53:54.440]  I'm saying the only thing you can sell is the beneficial interest.
[53:54.440 --> 53:55.680]  Nothing else has any value.
[53:55.680 --> 53:56.680]  Everything else follows it.
[53:56.680 --> 53:59.280]  And that's what the court said.
[53:59.280 --> 54:00.520]  Everything follows it.
[54:00.520 --> 54:01.520]  Correct.
[54:01.520 --> 54:06.760]  But if you also read that, all right, it says, an assignment of the note carries a mortgage
[54:06.760 --> 54:10.440]  with it, while an assignment of the loan is a nullity.
[54:10.440 --> 54:13.280]  The mortgage can have no separate existence.
[54:13.280 --> 54:18.120]  When the note is paid- You said assignment of the loan.
[54:18.120 --> 54:22.840]  I'm reading actual verbiage from Carpenter versus Logan, 1872.
[54:22.840 --> 54:27.320]  How are they defining the note separate from the loan?
[54:27.320 --> 54:30.240]  What they're claiming- The note being mortgage means-
[54:30.240 --> 54:35.320]  What they're saying is an assignment of the note, meaning an endorsement, they're using
[54:35.320 --> 54:40.560]  verbiage as an assignment, that would be an endorsement of the note carries a mortgage
[54:40.560 --> 54:45.640]  with it, which is true, all right?
[54:45.640 --> 54:50.800]  It says while the latter alone is a nullity, meaning if they just did an assignment of
[54:50.800 --> 54:57.880]  deed of trust without doing negotiation of the note, it did not take place.
[54:57.880 --> 55:03.520]  It's a nullity because the mortgage can have no separate existence.
[55:03.520 --> 55:07.600]  It says when the note is paid, the mortgage expires.
[55:07.600 --> 55:13.400]  It cannot survive a moment, the debt for which a note represents.
[55:13.400 --> 55:15.040]  Okay.
[55:15.040 --> 55:18.020]  I haven't studied Carpenter, Logan.
[55:18.020 --> 55:28.960]  How did they get to the separation of the two that was different from a normal situation
[55:28.960 --> 55:34.680]  where a lender would write a loan and then transfer the whole thing to someone else?
[55:34.680 --> 55:38.640]  Say they're getting out of that part of the business or they're shutting down and they
[55:38.640 --> 55:40.960]  transfer the whole thing to someone else.
[55:40.960 --> 55:48.000]  How is the transfer different such that the court would make this ruling?
[55:48.000 --> 55:49.760]  Okay.
[55:49.760 --> 55:54.680]  The mortgage and the note are to be construed as one instrument, as one document.
[55:54.680 --> 55:59.440]  They are created at the same time.
[55:59.440 --> 56:05.120]  So if you go back to the actual 1872 when these were done, all right, they said they
[56:05.120 --> 56:09.400]  are to be construed as one document.
[56:09.400 --> 56:14.480]  It's one mortgage loan instrument.
[56:14.480 --> 56:24.600]  That is why the mortgage follows the note, a properly secured note, but a partial interest
[56:24.600 --> 56:32.000]  of that note separate on itself that was sold, the security instrument cannot follow.
[56:32.000 --> 56:38.600]  Now, I'm having a problem with partial interest.
[56:38.600 --> 56:45.760]  Now, if I were to factor 20 payments, that would be a partial interest.
[56:45.760 --> 56:50.400]  But if I factored all the payments, that's all the interest.
[56:50.400 --> 56:52.000]  That is not a partial interest.
[56:52.000 --> 56:56.880]  That is a partial interest of the mortgage loan instrument.
[56:56.880 --> 56:57.880]  Okay.
[56:57.880 --> 57:01.480]  That, I need to see how that's defined so that I can use it.
[57:01.480 --> 57:07.160]  I'm trying to get a good declaratory judgment claim.
[57:07.160 --> 57:08.760]  Okay.
[57:08.760 --> 57:13.120]  Again, look at the entire mortgage loan instrument.
[57:13.120 --> 57:19.960]  It can comprise of two tangibles, the tangible promissory note and your deed of trust, and
[57:19.960 --> 57:27.920]  the intangible, which is the payment stream, the promise to pay.
[57:27.920 --> 57:34.720]  I, Randy Kelton, promise to pay $2,500 for the next 360 months.
[57:34.720 --> 57:36.400]  That is the value.
[57:36.400 --> 57:44.400]  When you sell the value, your security instrument decreases because now there is no value for
[57:44.400 --> 57:47.040]  it to attach itself to.
[57:47.040 --> 57:50.480]  Okay, that is the other argument.
[57:50.480 --> 57:56.240]  That was going to be in the alternative.
[57:56.240 --> 58:03.240]  If you're saying that thing, that everything moved together or that the lender could still
[58:03.240 --> 58:09.760]  hold the security instrument after he sold the right to the income stream and could properly
[58:09.760 --> 58:16.680]  file this document, then it doesn't make any difference because the document only protects
[58:16.680 --> 58:21.280]  him and not the person who actually has the right to pay, so the document is void on its
[58:21.280 --> 58:22.280]  face anyway.
[58:22.280 --> 58:23.280]  Right.
[58:23.280 --> 58:24.280]  Okay.
[58:24.280 --> 58:27.360]  When we come back, we've got a bunch of callers.
[58:27.360 --> 58:28.880]  I'll stop arguing this issue.
[58:28.880 --> 58:31.680]  I feel all beat up.
[58:31.680 --> 58:32.680]  This is great.
[58:32.680 --> 58:33.920]  We need to do this more often.
[58:33.920 --> 58:34.920]  Okay.
[58:34.920 --> 58:38.920]  This is Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Joe Esquivel, Wheel of Law Radio.
[58:38.920 --> 58:42.560]  Our call is number 512-646-1984.
[58:42.560 --> 58:50.360]  We'll go to your calls when we come back, but we'll be right back.
[58:50.360 --> 58:54.520]  Would you like to make more definite progress in your walk with God?
[58:54.520 --> 58:59.680]  Bibles for America is offering a free study Bible and a set of free Christian books that
[58:59.680 --> 59:01.040]  can really help.
[59:01.040 --> 59:05.480]  The New Testament Recovery Version is one of the most comprehensive study Bibles available
[59:05.480 --> 59:06.480]  today.
[59:06.480 --> 59:10.400]  It's an accurate translation and it contains thousands of footnotes that will help you
[59:10.400 --> 59:13.520]  to know God and to know the meaning of life.
[59:13.520 --> 59:18.760]  The free books are a three-volume set called Basic Elements of the Christian Life.
[59:18.760 --> 59:23.040]  Chapter by chapter, Basic Elements of the Christian Life clearly presents God's plan
[59:23.040 --> 59:27.960]  of salvation, growing in Christ, and how to build up the church.
[59:27.960 --> 59:32.960]  To order your free New Testament Recovery Version and Basic Elements of the Christian
[59:32.960 --> 59:45.760]  Life, call Bibles for America toll free at 888-551-0102, that's 888-551-0102, or visit
[59:45.760 --> 59:48.360]  us online at bfa.org.
[59:48.360 --> 01:00:04.000]  Live, free speech radio, logosradionetwork.com.
[01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:08.560]  You're listening to the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist
[01:00:08.560 --> 01:00:12.040]  updates, online at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:00:12.040 --> 01:00:16.480]  This is Justin Armon.
[01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:19.600]  And this is Jessica Armon.
[01:00:19.600 --> 01:00:24.240]  Here with your Liberty Beat for Friday, September 20th, 2013.
[01:00:24.240 --> 01:00:37.000]  Goals open today at $1,365, silver at $23.04, and bitcoin is trading at $124.46.
[01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:41.280]  Support for the Liberty Beat comes from the first annual education conference being held
[01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:43.640]  on October 12th in Austin, Texas.
[01:00:43.640 --> 01:00:51.160]  If you are a parent, this is an event you do not want to miss, register today at parentsforliberty.org.
[01:00:51.160 --> 01:00:52.160]  And now the news.
[01:00:52.160 --> 01:00:58.160]  A new federal document includes conspiracy theories as a sign of terrorist activity.
[01:00:58.160 --> 01:01:03.760]  The document entitled Potential Indicators for Terrorist Activities Related to Sleepers
[01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:08.600]  was released by the Bureau of Justice Assistance, a branch of the United States Department of
[01:01:08.600 --> 01:01:09.920]  Justice.
[01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:14.520]  Circulated to various law enforcement agencies across the nation, the document states that
[01:01:14.520 --> 01:01:20.120]  conspiracy theories, including those involving 9-11, could be a sign of membership in a terrorist
[01:01:20.120 --> 01:01:21.120]  sleeper cell.
[01:01:21.120 --> 01:01:26.000]  It additionally contains wording that those who oppose American foreign policy could also
[01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:28.760]  fall into the terrorist category.
[01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:35.960]  An ACLU report entitled Unleashed and Unaccountable describes the FBI as a secret domestic intelligence
[01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:41.520]  agency that has regularly overstepped the law, infringing on Americans' constitutional
[01:01:41.520 --> 01:01:45.520]  rights while overzealously pursuing its domestic security mission.
[01:01:45.520 --> 01:01:49.520]  A family in Germany just received their four children back that were removed weeks ago
[01:01:49.520 --> 01:01:53.000]  from their parents' home for the crime of homeschooling.
[01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:57.160]  Faced with permanently losing their children, Dirk and Petra Wunterlich were forced to
[01:01:57.160 --> 01:02:00.120]  agree to send their children to a German state public school.
[01:02:00.120 --> 01:02:04.560]  Dozens of supporters gathered outside the courthouse to show solidarity with the Wunterlich
[01:02:04.560 --> 01:02:05.560]  family.
[01:02:05.560 --> 01:02:09.160]  There was not a lot of homeschooling during the unification of the state in 1871.
[01:02:09.160 --> 01:02:13.800]  However, Hitler created harsh penalties for families that did not comply with the law.
[01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:15.840]  These penalties are still in place today.
[01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:19.880]  In Portland, Oregon, government schools were locking children in padded cells without parental
[01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:21.200]  knowledge or consent.
[01:02:21.200 --> 01:02:25.840]  A mother became so outraged that a new state law was passed, prohibiting schools from purchasing
[01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:31.720]  or using free-standing seclusion cells, or isolation booths, as they are called.
[01:02:31.720 --> 01:02:35.400]  As the new regulations are taking effect, schools are scrambling for a way around the
[01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:40.600]  provisions so they can continue to place students in solitary confinement at their discretion.
[01:02:40.600 --> 01:02:45.080]  School administrators are defending isolation cells, stating that they have therapeutic
[01:02:45.080 --> 01:02:48.600]  purposes for some children.
[01:02:48.600 --> 01:02:50.400]  You've been listening to the Liberty Beat.
[01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:55.400]  Remember, freeing your mind is freeing our world.
[01:02:55.400 --> 01:03:06.400]  It's all according to the will of the Almighty.
[01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:19.400]  I read his book and it says, A Christmas for the unsightly.
[01:03:19.400 --> 01:03:43.400]  I read his book and it says, A Christmas for the unsightly.
[01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:49.400]  Okay, we are back, Randy Kelton, Joe Esquivel, Rue La Radio, and we're going to your calls.
[01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:52.400]  We're going to go to Chris in California.
[01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:55.400]  Hello, Senior Chris.
[01:03:55.400 --> 01:03:56.400]  Hi.
[01:03:56.400 --> 01:04:01.400]  What do you have for us, Chris?
[01:04:01.400 --> 01:04:18.400]  Okay, my question to you is basically this, last year in February of 2012, I received
[01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:33.400]  a DUI and it was a pretty startling experience for me because, well, for one, I had just
[01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:38.400]  moved to the city, to this new city called Suny Valley.
[01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:40.400]  I'm sure you've heard of it, Suny Valley, California.
[01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:42.400]  I had just moved there.
[01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:44.400]  I had just moved back from the northwest.
[01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:46.400]  I was living up in Washington.
[01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:48.400]  Okay, wait a minute.
[01:04:48.400 --> 01:04:49.400]  We've got a lot of people waiting.
[01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:52.400]  Let's kind of move along if we can.
[01:04:52.400 --> 01:04:54.400]  I'll just cut to the chase real quick.
[01:04:54.400 --> 01:05:04.400]  What I wanted to find out was when the officer pulled me over, I basically told him, the
[01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:06.400]  first thing I asked him was, why did you pull me over?
[01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:12.400]  Because as soon as I walked outside the bar and I got into my vehicle and I pulled out
[01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:20.400]  in the street, I looked in my rear-view mirror and I noticed across the street, across the
[01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:26.400]  street in the next block over, a car had kind of pulled out really slowly and then sped
[01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:29.400]  up and gotten back at me immediately.
[01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:34.400]  I noticed immediately he was a police officer.
[01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:37.400]  The guy followed me down another mile or so.
[01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:39.400]  Then when I made a right hand turn, he followed me as well.
[01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:43.400]  Of course, he pulled me over like I knew he was going to.
[01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:47.400]  I had asked him when he walked up to the car, why did you pull me over?
[01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:55.400]  He quickly said under his breath, I tell you, you were kind of swerving or whatever.
[01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:57.400]  Then I said, what?
[01:05:57.400 --> 01:05:59.400]  I was swerving.
[01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:06.400]  Before I can defend myself by saying that, he immediately went on to say, let me see
[01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:09.400]  your driver's license and insurance registration.
[01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:15.400]  I was just waiting for him to give me a response as to why he thought I would.
[01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:16.400]  Okay.
[01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:17.400]  Move along.
[01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:20.400]  These are unnecessary details for us to understand.
[01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:34.400]  Anyways, what ended up happening was I ended up paying a lawyer over $2,000.
[01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:37.400]  The lawyer really didn't do anything for me at all.
[01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:43.400]  Just kept me from going to jail and just went to court for me and everything.
[01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:44.400]  Okay.
[01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:46.400]  What is your question or issue?
[01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:56.400]  My question is I don't feel like the police officer had probable cause to pull me over.
[01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:59.400]  I want to know if there's anything that I can do.
[01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:02.400]  That's exactly what I was thinking.
[01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:13.400]  The fact that you just left a beer joint or a tavern is not probable cause.
[01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:19.400]  He knew you had just left a beer joint, so he knew you'd have alcohol on your breath.
[01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:21.400]  He lied.
[01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:23.400]  Policemen do this all the time.
[01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:25.400]  They're dealing with a scam.
[01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:37.400]  You're a lawyer and your lawyer you thought was working for you when the lawyer was really working for himself.
[01:07:37.400 --> 01:07:44.400]  Have you exceeded the time limit to appeal or did you take a deal?
[01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:46.400]  That's exactly the next question I wanted to ask you.
[01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:50.400]  This is the main topic of the conversation with you.
[01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:54.400]  A friend of mine that listens to your radio station that lives in Oklahoma told me to call you.
[01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:57.400]  I never heard of your station or anything like that.
[01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:03.400]  I called and that's exactly what I wanted to find out was how long of appeal do I have
[01:08:03.400 --> 01:08:10.400]  because this happened last year on February the 4th, 2012.
[01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:13.400]  You only have 30 days.
[01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:14.400]  Okay.
[01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:15.400]  It was in May.
[01:08:15.400 --> 01:08:20.400]  It was in May when I was convicted of it, in May of 2012.
[01:08:20.400 --> 01:08:30.400]  Okay, the only thing you can do now is go back and challenge subject matter jurisdiction.
[01:08:30.400 --> 01:08:39.400]  But you can claim a lack of probable cause so that the officer did not have probable cause
[01:08:39.400 --> 01:08:44.400]  and therefore was unable to invoke subject matter jurisdiction to the court.
[01:08:44.400 --> 01:08:47.400]  But you're not likely to win this one.
[01:08:47.400 --> 01:08:52.400]  I think it's because of the time limit that has passed.
[01:08:52.400 --> 01:08:57.400]  It's hard to help you this far past.
[01:08:57.400 --> 01:08:58.400]  Right.
[01:08:58.400 --> 01:08:59.400]  And you know what?
[01:08:59.400 --> 01:09:00.400]  I was scared when I got pulled over.
[01:09:00.400 --> 01:09:01.400]  I didn't know my rights or anything like that.
[01:09:01.400 --> 01:09:04.400]  I was intimidated by the police officer as far as what I had to do.
[01:09:04.400 --> 01:09:08.400]  Otherwise, he told me, hey, if you don't do this, you're going to lose your license for a year
[01:09:08.400 --> 01:09:12.400]  and I'll take you to jail and you won't impound your vehicle and blah, blah, blah.
[01:09:12.400 --> 01:09:16.400]  So he kind of coerced me into going into that.
[01:09:16.400 --> 01:09:18.400]  Okay, we understand that fully.
[01:09:18.400 --> 01:09:24.400]  Listen to this show regularly and you'll get to where when you see those lights in your rear view mirror,
[01:09:24.400 --> 01:09:26.400]  you'll think like I do.
[01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.400]  Come on, Bubba, take your best shot.
[01:09:29.400 --> 01:09:32.400]  I'm fixing to give you a romp through the legal system.
[01:09:32.400 --> 01:09:35.400]  You are not going to believe.
[01:09:35.400 --> 01:09:43.400]  I listened to your show on and off here over the past few months, but not like, you know, every day.
[01:09:43.400 --> 01:09:49.400]  And I felt that this was something that I just wanted to know what you would have to say about it
[01:09:49.400 --> 01:09:58.400]  because I know that there's probably things that could have been done in a wiser.
[01:09:58.400 --> 01:10:04.400]  What you can still do is sue the crap out of your lawyer.
[01:10:04.400 --> 01:10:06.400]  Yeah.
[01:10:06.400 --> 01:10:08.400]  Absolutely filed bar grievance against him.
[01:10:08.400 --> 01:10:15.400]  If we don't start hammering these guys for not doing their job, they're going to keep not doing their job.
[01:10:15.400 --> 01:10:17.400]  Okay, this is how it works.
[01:10:17.400 --> 01:10:23.400]  Your lawyer has an affinity.
[01:10:23.400 --> 01:10:24.400]  It's all about alliances.
[01:10:24.400 --> 01:10:28.400]  He has an alliance with the prosecutor.
[01:10:28.400 --> 01:10:30.400]  They work together.
[01:10:30.400 --> 01:10:32.400]  He has an alliance with the court.
[01:10:32.400 --> 01:10:35.400]  He don't want either one of them upset at him.
[01:10:35.400 --> 01:10:38.400]  He wants to be able to deal his clients out.
[01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:41.400]  His clients come to him and give him money.
[01:10:41.400 --> 01:10:45.400]  He wants to be able to show the client that he did something for him.
[01:10:45.400 --> 01:10:53.400]  What he doesn't tell you is if you pay him a whole lot of money, he'll get you the same deal you could have got yourself.
[01:10:53.400 --> 01:10:58.400]  And what he's there for is to make sure you don't have anything to appeal.
[01:10:58.400 --> 01:11:06.400]  Okay, let me tell you this real quick here before it gets into a longer-winded discussion than what I'm anticipating here, and that is this.
[01:11:06.400 --> 01:11:19.400]  When I first hired this lawyer, I got to the nitty-bitty tidbits, and that was, hey, I want to see the video footage of him pulling me over because I'm telling you I wasn't speeding.
[01:11:19.400 --> 01:11:22.400]  The cop basically allowed him to report that I was speeding.
[01:11:22.400 --> 01:11:27.400]  I made a wide turn on the first right-hand turn before he flashed a light on me.
[01:11:27.400 --> 01:11:31.400]  Those are all false, made-up statements by the police officer.
[01:11:31.400 --> 01:11:42.400]  And even the lawyer that retained me even said himself, oh, yeah, I've had other clients just like you that where the police reports were exactly the same as the previous client.
[01:11:42.400 --> 01:11:43.400]  He's like, so I know they're lying.
[01:11:43.400 --> 01:11:44.400]  They lie all the time.
[01:11:44.400 --> 01:11:45.400]  That's what he told me.
[01:11:45.400 --> 01:11:47.400]  And I was just like, wow.
[01:11:47.400 --> 01:11:48.400]  I was like, cool.
[01:11:48.400 --> 01:11:52.400]  Then I felt that he didn't fight extra hard.
[01:11:52.400 --> 01:11:54.400]  He would fight extra hard for my case.
[01:11:54.400 --> 01:12:00.400]  And really all it was was, hey, and when it was all said and done in the end, all he did was keep me out of jail.
[01:12:00.400 --> 01:12:04.400]  He went to court for me every time and kept me out of jail.
[01:12:04.400 --> 01:12:09.400]  He did not do anything you could not have just as well done yourself.
[01:12:09.400 --> 01:12:11.400]  Right.
[01:12:11.400 --> 01:12:18.400]  If you had not hired a lawyer, they would have made you essentially the same deal.
[01:12:18.400 --> 01:12:19.400]  It's all a scam.
[01:12:19.400 --> 01:12:24.400]  You don't learn about these things until after it was all said and done.
[01:12:24.400 --> 01:12:26.400]  And I know I didn't set all the right things at the time of the stop.
[01:12:26.400 --> 01:12:28.400]  I told the police officer, hey, I don't drink.
[01:12:28.400 --> 01:12:35.400]  And his probable cause basically at first to pull me over was he saw me swerving and whatever.
[01:12:35.400 --> 01:12:39.400]  Okay, we can't spend all night going over these same details.
[01:12:39.400 --> 01:12:40.400]  I got that part.
[01:12:40.400 --> 01:12:42.400]  We hear this all the time.
[01:12:42.400 --> 01:12:47.400]  If you don't go after them, if you don't file grievances against this lawyer,
[01:12:47.400 --> 01:12:52.400]  put together a malpractice suit against this lawyer, you get the same thing next time.
[01:12:52.400 --> 01:12:57.400]  You go down and file aggravated perjury charges against the officer,
[01:12:57.400 --> 01:13:00.400]  the prosecutor will refuse to prosecute.
[01:13:00.400 --> 01:13:06.400]  Then you file charges against the prosecutor for shielding the officer from prosecution.
[01:13:06.400 --> 01:13:08.400]  And you file that with a judge.
[01:13:08.400 --> 01:13:11.400]  And when the judge refuses to take it, you file criminal charges against the judge
[01:13:11.400 --> 01:13:16.400]  and just make their lives miserable.
[01:13:16.400 --> 01:13:20.400]  If we don't start doing this, they'll just keep doing what they're doing.
[01:13:20.400 --> 01:13:23.400]  Do you think they'll saw footage of the video footage of me being pulled over?
[01:13:23.400 --> 01:13:25.400]  That's what I want to find out because I know for a fact...
[01:13:25.400 --> 01:13:27.400]  I think you're too late.
[01:13:27.400 --> 01:13:29.400]  That was when you did that a year ago.
[01:13:29.400 --> 01:13:33.400]  Okay, but what I'm asking you is would they still have that available for me
[01:13:33.400 --> 01:13:35.400]  in the archives for them to pull up?
[01:13:35.400 --> 01:13:39.400]  No, I think generally they only keep stuff for six months.
[01:13:39.400 --> 01:13:41.400]  Okay, well then that's a done deal then.
[01:13:41.400 --> 01:13:45.400]  I mean, I'm just wasting my time then because I think if I knew that ahead of time
[01:13:45.400 --> 01:13:49.400]  and I spoke with you within six months of me being pulled over,
[01:13:49.400 --> 01:13:52.400]  I think I can get access to that video.
[01:13:52.400 --> 01:13:56.400]  And then they would see that everything I told the police officer to stop was true
[01:13:56.400 --> 01:13:57.400]  and that by him doing...
[01:13:57.400 --> 01:13:58.400]  That won't help.
[01:13:58.400 --> 01:14:01.400]  I'm telling you, they don't care.
[01:14:01.400 --> 01:14:04.400]  When you ask for the video, they won't produce it.
[01:14:04.400 --> 01:14:05.400]  This is not about right or wrong.
[01:14:05.400 --> 01:14:07.400]  It's about revenue, period.
[01:14:07.400 --> 01:14:08.400]  That's right.
[01:14:08.400 --> 01:14:09.400]  It's a business for them.
[01:14:09.400 --> 01:14:10.400]  That's right.
[01:14:10.400 --> 01:14:12.400]  Yeah, and here's the revenue part.
[01:14:12.400 --> 01:14:16.400]  When you start filing complaints against the officer in a tort letter
[01:14:16.400 --> 01:14:21.400]  with the county commissioner's court, their bond rating goes up.
[01:14:21.400 --> 01:14:25.400]  When you file a judicial bar grievance against the lawyer,
[01:14:25.400 --> 01:14:30.400]  his malpractice insurance doubles if it doesn't get canceled altogether.
[01:14:30.400 --> 01:14:32.400]  Bar grievance is a big deal.
[01:14:32.400 --> 01:14:37.400]  Judicial conduct complaint against the judge, his bond rating goes up.
[01:14:37.400 --> 01:14:39.400]  It's all about the money.
[01:14:39.400 --> 01:14:42.400]  This is how we cost them money.
[01:14:42.400 --> 01:14:43.400]  Their lives are a little bit more miserable,
[01:14:43.400 --> 01:14:47.400]  but that doesn't even compare to the way they make my life miserable as far as financial.
[01:14:47.400 --> 01:14:48.400]  That's right.
[01:14:48.400 --> 01:14:52.400]  You know, the thing is, it's not fair.
[01:14:52.400 --> 01:14:58.400]  It never has been fair, and it's never going to be fair unless we make it fair.
[01:14:58.400 --> 01:15:02.400]  And I just don't understand how they can just get away with that.
[01:15:02.400 --> 01:15:04.400]  It's just like an easy...
[01:15:04.400 --> 01:15:07.400]  Well, what did you do to stop them?
[01:15:07.400 --> 01:15:09.400]  I didn't know my rights if I would have known my rights.
[01:15:09.400 --> 01:15:11.400]  That's how they got away with it.
[01:15:11.400 --> 01:15:13.400]  I didn't stop them.
[01:15:13.400 --> 01:15:14.400]  I've done a lot.
[01:15:14.400 --> 01:15:15.400]  That is...
[01:15:15.400 --> 01:15:16.400]  Trust me.
[01:15:16.400 --> 01:15:17.400]  Okay.
[01:15:17.400 --> 01:15:19.400]  That is exactly how they got away with it.
[01:15:19.400 --> 01:15:21.400]  You didn't know your rights.
[01:15:21.400 --> 01:15:23.400]  They do this to people every day of the week,
[01:15:23.400 --> 01:15:27.400]  and it's just nuts because people that don't know their rights...
[01:15:27.400 --> 01:15:28.400]  Okay, okay.
[01:15:28.400 --> 01:15:30.400]  We know that...
[01:15:30.400 --> 01:15:32.400]  It's an awful act.
[01:15:32.400 --> 01:15:35.400]  If you don't learn your rights and you don't demand your rights,
[01:15:35.400 --> 01:15:37.400]  the courts have clearly held.
[01:15:37.400 --> 01:15:41.400]  Rights belong to the belligerent litigant.
[01:15:41.400 --> 01:15:45.400]  If you want your rights, you must take them.
[01:15:45.400 --> 01:15:48.400]  If you want your children to have their rights,
[01:15:48.400 --> 01:15:53.400]  you have to leave this system in better shape than you got it.
[01:15:53.400 --> 01:15:55.400]  That's what we're here for.
[01:15:55.400 --> 01:15:58.400]  Randy, the mind-blowing thing to me that I'm trying to explain to you though
[01:15:58.400 --> 01:16:01.400]  that pretty much trumps everything that I'm explaining to you here
[01:16:01.400 --> 01:16:05.400]  is they could do these things that aren't even constitutional
[01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:07.400]  or even legal to do, and they do them anyway
[01:16:07.400 --> 01:16:11.400]  because they want you to basically submit and pay
[01:16:11.400 --> 01:16:15.400]  and not know that there's other things you can do to prove them wrong
[01:16:15.400 --> 01:16:18.400]  and to get out of what they're trying to charge you with and make you pay.
[01:16:18.400 --> 01:16:19.400]  Okay.
[01:16:19.400 --> 01:16:22.400]  You've got to understand that's natural and normal.
[01:16:22.400 --> 01:16:26.400]  People in power tend to increase their power,
[01:16:26.400 --> 01:16:31.400]  and people who are vulnerable to the public
[01:16:31.400 --> 01:16:34.400]  don't want the public to know they're vulnerable to them,
[01:16:34.400 --> 01:16:36.400]  so they do everything they can to hide it.
[01:16:36.400 --> 01:16:38.400]  This is what you'd expect.
[01:16:38.400 --> 01:16:40.400]  Okay, okay, hold on.
[01:16:40.400 --> 01:16:42.400]  We've got to go to break.
[01:16:42.400 --> 01:16:43.400]  We do need to move on.
[01:16:43.400 --> 01:16:45.400]  We've got a whole raft of callers.
[01:16:45.400 --> 01:16:48.400]  And get, order, jurisdictionary.
[01:16:48.400 --> 01:16:50.400]  Go through jurisdictionary.
[01:16:50.400 --> 01:16:53.400]  Then call back and you'll have a whole different perspective.
[01:16:53.400 --> 01:16:54.400]  This is Randy Kelton, David Stevens,
[01:16:54.400 --> 01:16:56.400]  and you have the radio.
[01:16:56.400 --> 01:17:00.400]  We'll be right back.
[01:17:00.400 --> 01:17:04.400]  Through advances in technology, our lives have greatly improved,
[01:17:04.400 --> 01:17:06.400]  except in the area of nutrition.
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[01:19:01.400 --> 01:19:07.400]  This is the Logos Radio Network.
[01:19:07.400 --> 01:19:10.400]  This is the Logos Radio Network.
[01:19:10.400 --> 01:19:13.400]  This is the Logos Radio Network.
[01:19:13.400 --> 01:19:20.400]  This is the Logos Radio Network.
[01:19:34.400 --> 01:19:36.400]  We are back at St. Kelton,
[01:19:36.400 --> 01:19:39.400]  Joe Esquivel, Ruva Radio,
[01:19:39.400 --> 01:19:48.400]  and Chris, go to Ruva Radio and look for Jurisdictionary.
[01:19:48.400 --> 01:19:51.400]  It's a relatively inexpensive course,
[01:19:51.400 --> 01:19:58.400]  but that will give you all of the basics of the practice of law.
[01:19:58.400 --> 01:20:02.400]  The difference between motions and pleadings,
[01:20:02.400 --> 01:20:04.400]  when to file a motion, when to file a pleading,
[01:20:04.400 --> 01:20:09.400]  how to file the motions, how to get them set for hearing,
[01:20:09.400 --> 01:20:13.400]  how to enter evidence, how to establish foundation,
[01:20:13.400 --> 01:20:18.400]  all of these basic, you know, it's like learning to ride a bicycle.
[01:20:18.400 --> 01:20:22.400]  When you first start, you got to think of a hundred different things at once,
[01:20:22.400 --> 01:20:27.400]  but after just a little bit, all these pieces begin to fit together.
[01:20:27.400 --> 01:20:30.400]  When people call in and they've been through Jurisdictionary,
[01:20:30.400 --> 01:20:36.400]  I can tell very quickly because the level of conversation is totally different.
[01:20:36.400 --> 01:20:39.400]  They are ready to go after these folks.
[01:20:39.400 --> 01:20:42.400]  If you get that and go through it,
[01:20:42.400 --> 01:20:48.400]  and then read your local penal code and code of criminal procedure,
[01:20:48.400 --> 01:20:56.400]  and you listen in on Mondays, that's when Eddie does the traffic show,
[01:20:56.400 --> 01:21:00.400]  and you might want to get Eddie's traffic seminar.
[01:21:00.400 --> 01:21:02.400]  This will give you all of the basics.
[01:21:02.400 --> 01:21:08.400]  The hardest thing about learning law is there's so much of it out there.
[01:21:08.400 --> 01:21:11.400]  What do you learn and where do you start?
[01:21:11.400 --> 01:21:14.400]  You could spend three lifetimes going through all the law that's out there.
[01:21:14.400 --> 01:21:18.400]  Well, courses like this sort out from the plethora of possibilities
[01:21:18.400 --> 01:21:23.400]  those things that you need to know to get a good foundation.
[01:21:23.400 --> 01:21:26.400]  Do that, go through those,
[01:21:26.400 --> 01:21:31.400]  and you will very quickly come to be a force to be reckoned with.
[01:21:31.400 --> 01:21:37.400]  You'll stop being so frustrated about these guys pulling you over and mistreating you.
[01:21:37.400 --> 01:21:41.400]  Last time I got pulled over, they wrote me two tickets,
[01:21:41.400 --> 01:21:44.400]  one for speeding, and I wasn't speeding,
[01:21:44.400 --> 01:21:47.400]  and one because I wouldn't show him my insurance.
[01:21:47.400 --> 01:21:49.400]  I told him, go look in your computer.
[01:21:49.400 --> 01:21:50.400]  He said, I don't do that.
[01:21:50.400 --> 01:21:52.400]  Well, go do that.
[01:21:52.400 --> 01:21:53.400]  I'm not going to check.
[01:21:53.400 --> 01:21:54.400]  I want to see your proof of insurance.
[01:21:54.400 --> 01:21:56.400]  No.
[01:21:56.400 --> 01:21:57.400]  He said, do you have insurance?
[01:21:57.400 --> 01:21:58.400]  Of course I do.
[01:21:58.400 --> 01:21:59.400]  You're not going to show it to me?
[01:21:59.400 --> 01:22:00.400]  No.
[01:22:00.400 --> 01:22:01.400]  Then I'll write you a ticket.
[01:22:01.400 --> 01:22:02.400]  Okay, go ahead.
[01:22:02.400 --> 01:22:05.400]  That'll be fun.
[01:22:05.400 --> 01:22:07.400]  I went in and asked for a jury trial,
[01:22:07.400 --> 01:22:09.400]  and they asked me, did you have insurance?
[01:22:09.400 --> 01:22:10.400]  Of course I had insurance.
[01:22:10.400 --> 01:22:14.400]  Well, if you show me proof of insurance, well, we'll just dismiss it.
[01:22:14.400 --> 01:22:15.400]  I said, I don't want you to dismiss it.
[01:22:15.400 --> 01:22:18.400]  I want a jury trial.
[01:22:18.400 --> 01:22:22.400]  Oh, I need to talk to the judge.
[01:22:22.400 --> 01:22:26.400]  I can't get these guys to bring me to trial
[01:22:26.400 --> 01:22:31.400]  because I filed a whole stack of criminal complaints against the officer
[01:22:31.400 --> 01:22:36.400]  and asked the judge when they called me up for this first hearing.
[01:22:36.400 --> 01:22:40.400]  I walked up to the judge, and I looked at him, and I said,
[01:22:40.400 --> 01:22:44.400]  Judge Dedman, I remember a Judge Dedman here,
[01:22:44.400 --> 01:22:48.400]  but I don't remember him having that much gray hair.
[01:22:48.400 --> 01:22:51.400]  Then the judge looked at me and said,
[01:22:51.400 --> 01:22:57.400]  Mr. Kelton, I don't remember you having quite that big a belly.
[01:22:57.400 --> 01:23:01.400]  I said, touche.
[01:23:01.400 --> 01:23:06.400]  But then I asked him to hold an examining trial, and he refused.
[01:23:06.400 --> 01:23:11.400]  I asked him to take my criminal complaints against the arresting officer, and he refused.
[01:23:11.400 --> 01:23:15.400]  I asked the bailiff to arrest him, and the bailiff refused.
[01:23:15.400 --> 01:23:19.400]  It was just great fun.
[01:23:19.400 --> 01:23:25.400]  Once you learn how to handle yourself, these traffic issues,
[01:23:25.400 --> 01:23:29.400]  they are great opportunities to learn how to beat these guys up.
[01:23:29.400 --> 01:23:34.400]  So listen to Monday night to Eddie's show, get his traffic seminar,
[01:23:34.400 --> 01:23:39.400]  get jurisdictionary, and you will be loaded for bear.
[01:23:39.400 --> 01:23:43.400]  Okay, we're going to go to James in Texas,
[01:23:43.400 --> 01:23:48.400]  and James had a question or comment on the topic we were rattling around earlier.
[01:23:48.400 --> 01:23:50.400]  Hello, James.
[01:23:50.400 --> 01:23:53.400]  Oops, hold on, I thought I...
[01:23:53.400 --> 01:23:55.400]  Okay, gotcha.
[01:23:55.400 --> 01:23:56.400]  Go ahead, James.
[01:23:56.400 --> 01:23:59.400]  Good evening, Randy.
[01:23:59.400 --> 01:24:03.400]  Yes, did you hear Joe beat me up earlier?
[01:24:03.400 --> 01:24:13.400]  Yeah, he's going to pull all your hair out and make you look like you're old Brenner.
[01:24:13.400 --> 01:24:17.400]  Okay, you had a comment or a question?
[01:24:17.400 --> 01:24:20.400]  I think I can simplify down what Joe was trying to say,
[01:24:20.400 --> 01:24:26.400]  and what I think is some of the confusion is the security instrument,
[01:24:26.400 --> 01:24:32.400]  deed of trust, mortgage, whatever, contains rights that are attached to the rights
[01:24:32.400 --> 01:24:36.400]  that are represented by the blue ink note.
[01:24:36.400 --> 01:24:44.400]  Now, the rights to the security are attached to the blue ink note,
[01:24:44.400 --> 01:24:53.400]  and I agree that you can sell the interest or the payment stream from that blue ink note,
[01:24:53.400 --> 01:24:59.400]  but still the rights within that security are still attached to that blue ink note.
[01:24:59.400 --> 01:25:08.400]  You need to negotiate the blue ink note at the same time you sell the intangible payment stream.
[01:25:08.400 --> 01:25:14.400]  If you don't do all of the parts together, then there's a breakdown.
[01:25:14.400 --> 01:25:27.400]  Yes, and that part I got, I was trying to work out an argument to say they sold the only thing of value.
[01:25:27.400 --> 01:25:33.400]  So everything should have followed it.
[01:25:33.400 --> 01:25:38.400]  So if they say it didn't follow it, now I've backed them into a corner.
[01:25:38.400 --> 01:25:45.400]  But the problem is you can't sell the payment stream before you negotiate the blue instrument.
[01:25:45.400 --> 01:25:48.400]  You have to negotiate the blue instrument.
[01:25:48.400 --> 01:25:56.400]  The last party in the chain can sit there and sell the interest in the payment stream to the securities,
[01:25:56.400 --> 01:26:01.400]  and then your perfected rights and your security instrument, perfected of record,
[01:26:01.400 --> 01:26:09.400]  would follow all the way up if each sale of the blue ink note took place.
[01:26:09.400 --> 01:26:14.400]  So it's real simple.
[01:26:14.400 --> 01:26:18.400]  You negotiate the instrument before you securitize it.
[01:26:18.400 --> 01:26:21.400]  If you can't securitize it, try to negotiate the instrument.
[01:26:21.400 --> 01:26:23.400]  It don't work.
[01:26:23.400 --> 01:26:34.400]  Okay, I was trying to get the specific argument that I could make in a petition for declaratory judgment.
[01:26:34.400 --> 01:26:47.400]  I wanted to go in and say this guy who filed this security instrument that purports to grant him certain privileges,
[01:26:47.400 --> 01:26:58.400]  he doesn't hold this instrument anymore because he sold the only thing of value, which was the ink and stream to the note.
[01:26:58.400 --> 01:27:08.400]  And this instrument, for it to have any force and effect, would have to follow that sale
[01:27:08.400 --> 01:27:13.400]  because that's the only person that can be harmed.
[01:27:13.400 --> 01:27:23.400]  And the only way this note, this security instrument, can be exerted is if the holder's harmed.
[01:27:23.400 --> 01:27:30.400]  So the courts have held that it follows the note, and I'm saying that when he sold that income stream,
[01:27:30.400 --> 01:27:33.400]  he effectively sold everything of value.
[01:27:33.400 --> 01:27:36.400]  The rest of it's just paper.
[01:27:36.400 --> 01:27:46.400]  And if they argued, no, they didn't, that we kept the note and we kept the security instrument and they only got the income stream.
[01:27:46.400 --> 01:27:54.400]  I say, oh, okay, then in that case, the deed of trust is void in any case.
[01:27:54.400 --> 01:27:59.400]  Okay, did that argument make sense?
[01:27:59.400 --> 01:28:03.400]  Yes and no.
[01:28:03.400 --> 01:28:07.400]  Look at it this way.
[01:28:07.400 --> 01:28:13.400]  You can go to a lot of the current day security instruments and they will point blank like Joe says,
[01:28:13.400 --> 01:28:21.400]  Covenant 20 says, we're going to sell an interest in the note along with the security instrument.
[01:28:21.400 --> 01:28:25.400]  That security instrument cannot follow an interest in the note.
[01:28:25.400 --> 01:28:27.400]  It can only follow the note.
[01:28:27.400 --> 01:28:33.400]  The interest then is just the rights that the note contains.
[01:28:33.400 --> 01:28:39.400]  But the way the law is written, it follows the instrument, the Blue Ink instrument,
[01:28:39.400 --> 01:28:55.400]  and that Blue Ink instrument has to be negotiated for each subsequent party to be identified in record to have a valid enforceable security interest.
[01:28:55.400 --> 01:29:10.400]  Okay, so then if that's the case, then that works very well because if the person holding the Blue Ink document has sold the right to be paid,
[01:29:10.400 --> 01:29:18.400]  then he cannot be harmed and the document is void in any case.
[01:29:18.400 --> 01:29:29.400]  By making the separate arguments, the – I won't say the document would be void because the UCC allows for the note to be proved up.
[01:29:29.400 --> 01:29:34.400]  If there's any missing endorsements, they can be put on the note.
[01:29:34.400 --> 01:29:41.400]  But you can't sell the note under UCC 3203.
[01:29:41.400 --> 01:29:52.400]  Oh, wait. Okay, we've got to go to break. I'll show that the security instrument would be void in any case even if they do prove up the note because they breach the notice requirement.
[01:29:52.400 --> 01:30:00.400]  Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Real Law Radio. I'll call it number 512-646-1984. We'll be right back.
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[01:33:31.400 --> 01:33:41.400]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens, Rule of Law Radio, Debra Stevens, Joe Esquivel.
[01:33:41.400 --> 01:33:50.400]  We were having too much fun on the break. Our poor producer, he takes such a beating on the breaks.
[01:33:50.400 --> 01:34:09.400]  Okay, we're talking to James, and I'm talking about the, what I'm trying to do is develop a good strong argument for a most petition for declaratory judgment.
[01:34:09.400 --> 01:34:24.400]  I want to go in and claim that the deed of trust in Texas or a mortgage in a judicial state is unenforceable.
[01:34:24.400 --> 01:34:35.400]  Whether it's void or annulity, and we were talking about the difference in those two on the breaks, I want to be able to claim that it's unenforceable.
[01:34:35.400 --> 01:34:51.400]  And I was trying to construct an argument that in order for the other side to win one argument, they will nail themselves for the second argument.
[01:34:51.400 --> 01:35:12.400]  And the first argument is the evidence that we secure outside the county records of the negotiation of the beneficial interest in the note to a third party,
[01:35:12.400 --> 01:35:25.400]  be it a trust or whatever it's negotiated to. They sell the right to be paid. And we make the argument that they can't sell the right to be paid
[01:35:25.400 --> 01:35:39.400]  without the security instrument following that negotiation or sale or transfer, and they're going to come back and argue that they can't.
[01:35:39.400 --> 01:35:48.400]  And that's what the case law says. The case law says that the security instrument follows the obligation, the note.
[01:35:48.400 --> 01:36:02.400]  And I'm having trouble with the distinction between the right to be paid and the piece of paper that creates the right to be paid.
[01:36:02.400 --> 01:36:19.400]  But that aside, if they argue that they can sell the beneficial interest from the note and keep the note itself and thereby keep the security instrument,
[01:36:19.400 --> 01:36:34.400]  then if they testify that and that they can do it and they have done it, then I can come back and say that in that case, you have no standing to bring an issue before the court,
[01:36:34.400 --> 01:36:43.400]  because in order to invoke subject matter jurisdiction of the court, you have to bring a controversy by showing how you have been harmed.
[01:36:43.400 --> 01:36:53.400]  And since you sold the right to receive payment, you cannot be harmed. Have I missed something, James?
[01:36:53.400 --> 01:37:05.400]  That would be correct. Look at it this way, Randy. The security instrument contains a right to a claim to title as an alternate method of payment.
[01:37:05.400 --> 01:37:13.400]  Now, that right is secured to the promissory note, the blue ink note.
[01:37:13.400 --> 01:37:37.400]  So in essence, the blue ink note has rights to title of property. If the note is not negotiated to these other people in accordance to law, then the rights to title have not been transferred.
[01:37:37.400 --> 01:37:53.400]  Okay. And even if we didn't pay the third party, the first party wants to come back and say, you didn't pay that third party to whom I sold the right to be paid.
[01:37:53.400 --> 01:38:00.400]  Therefore, I can come back and invoke the security instrument.
[01:38:00.400 --> 01:38:14.400]  And then I'm going to back up and say, hold on. You can only invoke the subject matter jurisdiction of the court if you can bring a real controversy.
[01:38:14.400 --> 01:38:20.400]  And you can't bring a real controversy because you have not been harmed.
[01:38:20.400 --> 01:38:27.400]  The person who has been harmed is the one to whom you sold the right to be paid.
[01:38:27.400 --> 01:38:44.400]  They can come to the court and invoke a claim that they have been harmed, but then they will have to show that the borrower has a duty to pay this person.
[01:38:44.400 --> 01:39:04.400]  Then we don't. You also got to remember one other thing. Under the Uniform Commercial Code Article 3, if there's fraud affecting the instrument by the transferee, he cannot achieve rights of holder in due course, and he cannot achieve rights to entitle to enforce.
[01:39:04.400 --> 01:39:15.400]  But he has never been perfected a record to have a claim to title to the real property title. He doesn't have rights anywhere because of fraud.
[01:39:15.400 --> 01:39:34.400]  And that goes to the Clean Hands Doctrine and to 13.001 Text Property Code. If he doesn't have a perfected claim in the record, then he has no enforceable claim. The claim is not enforceable as to the holder.
[01:39:34.400 --> 01:39:43.400]  And if he comes to the court with unclean hands, no man shall be allowed to benefit from his own misdeeds.
[01:39:43.400 --> 01:39:52.400]  But I was trying to get more specific. That's why I was trying to craft this. And I think we've kind of beat this one to death. And I think I pretty well got it.
[01:39:52.400 --> 01:40:06.400]  I think we can put the lender in a position to where he's kind of darned if he does and darned if he don't. If he argues one position, it sets him up for the second one.
[01:40:06.400 --> 01:40:15.400]  These are the kinds of arguments I really like. Okay.
[01:40:15.400 --> 01:40:27.400]  Okay. Thank you, James. Okay. Now we're going to go to Terrence in Ohio. Hello, Terrence. What do you have for us today?
[01:40:27.400 --> 01:40:37.400]  Well, this is all mind-boggling, this mortgage stuff. But the seller, he got his money and he went to Belize where he can't be extradited.
[01:40:37.400 --> 01:40:50.400]  These bankers and lawyers or whoever they are, JP Morgan, the derivatives, whatever they are, they've taken the buyer's signature on a promissory note,
[01:40:50.400 --> 01:41:05.400]  and they're playing with it, making all kinds of money. But the buyer gets nothing out of the deal except some convoluted – he's supposed to still hold the rights to the land.
[01:41:05.400 --> 01:41:13.400]  But they're off trading everything else. And when he gets behind or something, they come back and take his land.
[01:41:13.400 --> 01:41:25.400]  In the meantime, they've made the millions of dollars off of him somehow, some way. Isn't there a two-sit number or something that can be traced where these guys have made a billion dollars, yet they're still coming back to him?
[01:41:25.400 --> 01:41:42.400]  Okay. Wait. Hold on. Hold on. That goes to an unstated presupposition. The presupposition is that you would have some claim to monies they made with this obligation.
[01:41:42.400 --> 01:41:46.400]  And where would you get that claim?
[01:41:46.400 --> 01:41:52.400]  It would seem it would have to be in the purchase agreement somewhere.
[01:41:52.400 --> 01:41:54.400]  It's not.
[01:41:54.400 --> 01:42:08.400]  You're looking at basically a side bet in poker. That's what you're looking at. When you're looking at the derivatives market, you're not a party to those transactions.
[01:42:08.400 --> 01:42:24.400]  The party or transactions, the party that you are – the transaction that you are a party to is between you and the lender or you and the name of the party that claims to be the lender.
[01:42:24.400 --> 01:42:33.400]  What was sold once it left your hands pertains to other parties.
[01:42:33.400 --> 01:42:39.400]  That's why when AIG came into play, all of these side bets are like playing poker.
[01:42:39.400 --> 01:42:46.400]  Randy and I are playing poker, and Steve is making a side bet as to who is going to win.
[01:42:46.400 --> 01:43:01.400]  Now, Steve has no interest in the hand that Randy and I are playing, but based on the outcome of our hand, we'll make a determination as to how much money Steve makes on the side bet.
[01:43:01.400 --> 01:43:06.400]  So you have not been harmed in all these other transactions.
[01:43:06.400 --> 01:43:14.400]  So when you're looking at the CUSEP number and you're trying to figure out, well, it's in, you know, 15 out of 25 tranches, that's fine.
[01:43:14.400 --> 01:43:24.400]  All they're talking about is the intangible payment obligation, which can be diced and sliced and sold as many times as they want.
[01:43:24.400 --> 01:43:37.400]  It's a portion of payment that was divided up and depending on risk of loss that the investor was willing to participate in is what tranche was put in and what he purchased.
[01:43:37.400 --> 01:43:42.400]  So that is not a claim that you have.
[01:43:42.400 --> 01:43:54.400]  If I didn't exist, they couldn't do that stuff, and you may have been harmed because where is the owner of the land?
[01:43:54.400 --> 01:44:00.400]  Okay, hold on, hold on. This is Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Wheel of Law Radio, calling number 512-646-98.
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[01:46:21.400 --> 01:46:44.400]  Hi, this is Joe Esquivel with Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio, and we were talking about the derivatives,
[01:46:44.400 --> 01:46:58.400]  and you were asking how you were a party to this. Again, what is it exactly that you were looking to do, Terrence?
[01:46:58.400 --> 01:47:05.400]  Well, it seems in the end, they're always coming after the buyer and after the house and the land,
[01:47:05.400 --> 01:47:14.400]  and forcing the buyer to pay them for house and land that they went off and traded. It was without you buying that house and land,
[01:47:14.400 --> 01:47:19.400]  they couldn't be doing what they're doing, but they're going off and doing all kinds of fun things.
[01:47:19.400 --> 01:47:32.400]  Yes, the only one that held liable to bleed is the buyer, and he's forced to bleed away his house and land after they're all playing all these games.
[01:47:32.400 --> 01:47:44.400]  Now, wait a minute, hold on. The only way you lose your property is if you don't abide by your agreement to them.
[01:47:44.400 --> 01:47:55.400]  Now, if they go behind the scenes and make all these trades, and they lose their behinds, they screw up and don't do it right,
[01:47:55.400 --> 01:48:08.400]  and they lose a bet. Do you want to help pay off the debt? Do you want to have to help pay off what they would lose?
[01:48:08.400 --> 01:48:13.400]  You see my point? You don't get to take part of the profit if you don't take part of the risks.
[01:48:13.400 --> 01:48:29.400]  What they're doing back there is trading between themselves. If they gain or lose, they benefit or they're harmed, and you're not affected.
[01:48:29.400 --> 01:48:37.400]  So, therefore, you have no claim on their profit or you have no liability for their loss.
[01:48:37.400 --> 01:48:40.400]  Randy, can I put my two cents in here?
[01:48:40.400 --> 01:48:42.400]  How about a cent and a half?
[01:48:42.400 --> 01:48:45.400]  Okay, a cent and a half. I'll give you a discount.
[01:48:45.400 --> 01:48:49.400]  For all y'all out there, this is Mr. Steve Skidmore.
[01:48:49.400 --> 01:48:58.400]  Got it, y'all. Miller v. Homecomings, and I believe that was adjudicated in Houston, Texas, was a brilliant case.
[01:48:58.400 --> 01:49:08.400]  And it was in opposition to the claim that the homeowner has no rights to question the assignments or even bring them up in court.
[01:49:08.400 --> 01:49:16.400]  It was decided otherwise in Miller v. Homecomings in where since in the derivatives markets,
[01:49:16.400 --> 01:49:35.400]  the effect of the derivatives did affect the negotiability or the eligibility for negotiation, and it also affected the security instrument.
[01:49:35.400 --> 01:49:40.400]  Therefore, the borrower has every right in the world to question these assignments,
[01:49:40.400 --> 01:49:49.400]  to go into the derivatives markets and start raising questions about that because it had an effect on the instruments that he signed.
[01:49:49.400 --> 01:50:03.400]  But only to the degree that it affected the ability of the alleged holder of a document to express that document to the detriment of the borrower.
[01:50:03.400 --> 01:50:07.400]  Right. I'm not saying that he would have a claim for recovery.
[01:50:07.400 --> 01:50:10.400]  He would not have a claim for recovery because he was not harmed.
[01:50:10.400 --> 01:50:17.400]  However, what happened in the backrooms of Wall Street had an effect on the instruments that he signed.
[01:50:17.400 --> 01:50:20.400]  Therefore, he has the right to question that.
[01:50:20.400 --> 01:50:24.400]  Exactly. We absolutely wouldn't challenge that.
[01:50:24.400 --> 01:50:30.400]  You absolutely have the right to dig into that because when the guy comes to the table,
[01:50:30.400 --> 01:50:33.400]  if you've got a hand, we're going to want you to show it.
[01:50:33.400 --> 01:50:38.400]  And if you're lying about your hand, we need to be able to tell that you're lying about your hand.
[01:50:38.400 --> 01:50:39.400]  Exactly.
[01:50:39.400 --> 01:50:41.400]  Absolutely. We can dig and scratch all we want to.
[01:50:41.400 --> 01:50:44.400]  But we can't say, well, you made this much money.
[01:50:44.400 --> 01:50:46.400]  I should get a piece of it.
[01:50:46.400 --> 01:50:47.400]  No, no, no, no.
[01:50:47.400 --> 01:50:54.400]  Another way to look at it, Randy, would be let's say that Steve moved into your neighborhood.
[01:50:54.400 --> 01:50:56.400]  All right. Oh, my goodness.
[01:50:56.400 --> 01:51:02.400]  You knew that Steve had a prior history of being a pyromaniac.
[01:51:02.400 --> 01:51:06.400]  And the last four houses Steve has been in, every one of them has burned down.
[01:51:06.400 --> 01:51:08.400]  I don't know how that happened.
[01:51:08.400 --> 01:51:16.400]  So now, Randy, you decide you're going to take out an insurance policy on Steve's home.
[01:51:16.400 --> 01:51:23.400]  You didn't tell him, but you took out a policy and a pretty darn good sized one.
[01:51:23.400 --> 01:51:29.400]  And sure as luck would have it, three years later, Steve's home burns down.
[01:51:29.400 --> 01:51:31.400]  I don't know how that's going to happen either.
[01:51:31.400 --> 01:51:38.400]  Now, you collect a handsome amount on this insurance policy.
[01:51:38.400 --> 01:51:42.400]  You don't tell Steve about it.
[01:51:42.400 --> 01:51:50.400]  Now, was it legal? Yeah, it was legal. Was it lawful?
[01:51:50.400 --> 01:51:56.400]  Well, you can question that. And that is what is being done in a lot of the derivative markets.
[01:51:56.400 --> 01:52:02.400]  Was it ethical? Was it ethical? Well, it depends if you have ethics.
[01:52:02.400 --> 01:52:07.400]  It depends on if you had something to do with the house burning down.
[01:52:07.400 --> 01:52:11.400]  Correct. But you can collect the money.
[01:52:11.400 --> 01:52:15.400]  You just had some information that you thought you could use.
[01:52:15.400 --> 01:52:17.400]  And that's what happened with these derivatives.
[01:52:17.400 --> 01:52:26.400]  While the homeowner is not directly affected by the goings on, again, yes.
[01:52:26.400 --> 01:52:36.400]  Was what was being done ethical? No, not always. But it happened.
[01:52:36.400 --> 01:52:38.400]  And we didn't have a claim.
[01:52:38.400 --> 01:52:39.400]  Correct.
[01:52:39.400 --> 01:52:48.400]  Unless they tried to exert a claim against you, then you could use that information to negate their claim.
[01:52:48.400 --> 01:52:52.400]  But does that make sense?
[01:52:52.400 --> 01:52:59.400]  Yeah. But the reason I ask is, is the buyer paying the right person?
[01:52:59.400 --> 01:53:01.400]  But if he pays the wrong person, he's asking...
[01:53:01.400 --> 01:53:04.400]  It has nothing to do with paying the right person, Terrence.
[01:53:04.400 --> 01:53:09.400]  Again, it goes to the party that took out that insurance policy.
[01:53:09.400 --> 01:53:29.400]  What you're going to look at for you, for your specific instance, not for the derivatives, but for your particular instrument, you would go to Ohio's revised code, Chapter 1303.22, D as in dog.
[01:53:29.400 --> 01:53:33.400]  And that's on transfer of instrument rights acquired by transfer.
[01:53:33.400 --> 01:53:45.400]  And when you read that and have an understanding, you can see what must have happened for the rights to be acquired by any given party coming forth with an action.
[01:53:45.400 --> 01:54:08.400]  Well, I think what Terrence was concerned of is, is he, when he receives a presentment, as defined under the UCC as demand for payment in United States dollars, is he discharging the debt when he responds to this presentment?
[01:54:08.400 --> 01:54:33.400]  Are these the people who are authorized to collect this money or is this just some guy off the street who went down and looked in the county record and saw who my lender was and saw an appointment of a servicer and sent me a bill supposedly from that servicer when he meant I have anything to do with anything.
[01:54:33.400 --> 01:54:36.400]  And that's when the question comes up.
[01:54:36.400 --> 01:54:40.400]  Are you representing the creditor or are you representing Holdren?
[01:54:40.400 --> 01:54:42.400]  Of course.
[01:54:42.400 --> 01:54:45.400]  And how do we tell that what you're saying to us is true?
[01:54:45.400 --> 01:54:49.400]  So yeah, we should be able to go back and dig in all that information.
[01:54:49.400 --> 01:54:58.400]  But in order to make sure, because the UCC says if you render payment to the wrong party, the debt is not discharged.
[01:54:58.400 --> 01:55:00.400]  Correct.
[01:55:00.400 --> 01:55:04.400]  And that's why, I mean, you hit it right on the head.
[01:55:04.400 --> 01:55:16.400]  I mean, to see the opposing counsel's jaw drop when I had asked him that question three times, it was priceless.
[01:55:16.400 --> 01:55:18.400]  He couldn't answer.
[01:55:18.400 --> 01:55:22.400]  That was the beauty of it.
[01:55:22.400 --> 01:55:23.400]  Okay.
[01:55:23.400 --> 01:55:29.400]  Terrence, does that answer your issue or do you still have a question?
[01:55:29.400 --> 01:55:31.400]  That helps me out a lot.
[01:55:31.400 --> 01:55:36.400]  I just want to make sure that the buyer isn't getting screwed by all these guys.
[01:55:36.400 --> 01:55:37.400]  I'm not looking for a free house.
[01:55:37.400 --> 01:55:43.400]  I'm just thinking I don't want to get robbed by all these people playing games.
[01:55:43.400 --> 01:55:48.400]  Well, there's actually another issue here.
[01:55:48.400 --> 01:55:52.400]  You know, these judges want to say, well, did you get a loan?
[01:55:52.400 --> 01:55:54.400]  Yeah, I did, but that's not before the court.
[01:55:54.400 --> 01:55:56.400]  Correct.
[01:55:56.400 --> 01:55:57.400]  Don't you owe somebody?
[01:55:57.400 --> 01:55:59.400]  Yeah, I do.
[01:55:59.400 --> 01:56:01.400]  It's not before the court.
[01:56:01.400 --> 01:56:15.400]  And it doesn't make any difference if this entity here is the bona fide true holder of the complete obligation.
[01:56:15.400 --> 01:56:21.400]  Before he can force me to pay it, he has to prove it.
[01:56:21.400 --> 01:56:25.400]  If he didn't do his homework, this is a free country.
[01:56:25.400 --> 01:56:34.400]  If he didn't do all the proper assignments and filings, he has a perfect right not to do all the proper filings.
[01:56:34.400 --> 01:56:39.400]  This is a free country, and you have the right to screw yourself if you want to.
[01:56:39.400 --> 01:56:44.400]  So if he screwed himself, he can't come here and ask for money.
[01:56:44.400 --> 01:56:51.400]  That's the issue before the court, not whether I ought to owe money.
[01:56:51.400 --> 01:56:52.400]  Bingo.
[01:56:52.400 --> 01:56:54.400]  Thank you guys so much.
[01:56:54.400 --> 01:56:55.400]  Okay, thank you, Terrence.
[01:56:55.400 --> 01:56:59.400]  Now we're going to go to Mark in Wisconsin.
[01:56:59.400 --> 01:57:00.400]  Hello, Mark.
[01:57:00.400 --> 01:57:03.400]  What are you up to this week?
[01:57:03.400 --> 01:57:04.400]  What am I up to this week?
[01:57:04.400 --> 01:57:09.400]  Hey, oh, by the way, Joe, your guys are doing that chain of title search.
[01:57:09.400 --> 01:57:11.400]  I really appreciate that.
[01:57:11.400 --> 01:57:15.400]  And I haven't stopped looking at things either, so here comes a question.
[01:57:15.400 --> 01:57:22.400]  Since my mortgage, the day we signed this noted mortgage,
[01:57:22.400 --> 01:57:28.400]  it was assigned to Merz as nominee for Wachovia.
[01:57:28.400 --> 01:57:31.400]  Since Wachovia was merged or blocked...
[01:57:31.400 --> 01:57:32.400]  Wait a minute.
[01:57:32.400 --> 01:57:33.400]  Hold up.
[01:57:33.400 --> 01:57:35.400]  Who assigned it to Merz?
[01:57:35.400 --> 01:57:41.400]  When I signed the assignment on the day that we originated this note and mortgage,
[01:57:41.400 --> 01:57:46.400]  we signed the assignment to Merz as nominee for Wachovia unbeknownst to...
[01:57:46.400 --> 01:57:47.400]  Now, wait a minute.
[01:57:47.400 --> 01:57:48.400]  Hold on.
[01:57:48.400 --> 01:57:49.400]  Hold on.
[01:57:49.400 --> 01:57:50.400]  Did you sign a separate document?
[01:57:50.400 --> 01:57:51.400]  Yes.
[01:57:51.400 --> 01:57:53.400]  Oh, I've never heard of that.
[01:57:53.400 --> 01:57:56.400]  This was in 2002 when this was all originated,
[01:57:56.400 --> 01:57:58.400]  and we just, of course, followed instructions.
[01:57:58.400 --> 01:58:00.400]  Here, sign this.
[01:58:00.400 --> 01:58:01.400]  Okay.
[01:58:01.400 --> 01:58:06.400]  The thing I was really getting to is a separate document
[01:58:06.400 --> 01:58:11.400]  as opposed to the reference to Merz in the deed of trust or the mortgage.
[01:58:11.400 --> 01:58:14.400]  Now, Merz is not referenced in the deed of trust.
[01:58:14.400 --> 01:58:16.400]  It's a separate document.
[01:58:16.400 --> 01:58:17.400]  Oh, that is interesting.
[01:58:17.400 --> 01:58:19.400]  I haven't come across that before.
[01:58:19.400 --> 01:58:21.400]  Okay, we're about to go to break.
[01:58:21.400 --> 01:58:23.400]  This is our top-of-the-hour break,
[01:58:23.400 --> 01:58:26.400]  so it'll take a little longer than usual.
[01:58:26.400 --> 01:58:28.400]  This is Randy Telt and Deborah Stevens,
[01:58:28.400 --> 01:58:30.400]  Joe Esquivel,
[01:58:30.400 --> 01:58:33.400]  and Steve Skidmore hanging around there in the background,
[01:58:33.400 --> 01:58:35.400]  poking around in the fire.
[01:58:35.400 --> 01:58:39.400]  I call in number 512-646-1984.
[01:58:39.400 --> 01:58:40.400]  Give us a call.
[01:58:40.400 --> 01:58:41.400]  It generally builds up toward the end.
[01:58:41.400 --> 01:58:43.400]  We're going into the third hour.
[01:58:43.400 --> 01:58:44.400]  So give us a call.
[01:58:44.400 --> 01:58:45.400]  Get in line.
[01:58:45.400 --> 01:58:46.400]  We'll be right back.
[01:58:46.400 --> 01:58:49.400]  We'll be right back.
[01:59:16.400 --> 01:59:18.400]  We'll be right back.
[01:59:47.400 --> 01:59:50.400]  That's pre-studybible.com.
[01:59:50.400 --> 01:59:53.400]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network,
[01:59:53.400 --> 02:00:16.400]  logosradionetwork.com.