ROL_2012-11-29_16k.timecode
[00:00.000 --> 00:07.440] Online video gaming is big business in China, but now Beijing is imposing limits on how
[00:07.440 --> 00:09.160] long citizens can play.
[00:09.160 --> 00:13.840] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, back to discuss gaming addiction and the Big Brother Nanny
[00:13.840 --> 00:16.160] States next.
[00:16.160 --> 00:17.880] Privacy is under attack.
[00:17.880 --> 00:21.480] When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[00:21.480 --> 00:26.480] And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[00:26.480 --> 00:31.560] So protect your rights, say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[00:31.560 --> 00:34.280] Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
[00:34.280 --> 00:39.880] This message is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search engine alternative to Google,
[00:39.880 --> 00:41.600] Yahoo and Bing.
[00:41.600 --> 00:45.560] Start over with StartPage.
[00:45.560 --> 00:52.120] In China, more than 20 million citizens spend half a billion dollars a year in smoky cybercafes
[00:52.120 --> 00:55.920] lost in the virtual world of multiplayer role-playing.
[00:55.920 --> 01:00.600] It's so popular that Beijing is trying to prevent addiction to online gaming by imposing
[01:00.600 --> 01:03.680] limits on how long citizens can play.
[01:03.680 --> 01:08.160] If they play more than three hours straight, their characters' in-game abilities go down.
[01:08.160 --> 01:11.640] To get those abilities back, players must take a five-hour break.
[01:11.640 --> 01:16.840] I'm all for parents doing this because no kid should waste his life in virtual combat,
[01:16.840 --> 01:22.040] but for the government to monitor and control people's use of their own computers is just
[01:22.040 --> 01:23.040] wrong.
[01:23.040 --> 01:33.360] I'm Dr. Cameron Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[01:33.360 --> 01:38.120] Search parties usually look for lost people, but in Iceland, one clueless group spent all
[01:38.120 --> 01:41.680] night trying to find a woman who had mysteriously not disappeared.
[01:41.680 --> 01:48.240] I'm Dr. Cameron Albrecht, back with the tale of the missing person who wasn't in a moment.
[01:48.240 --> 01:49.960] Privacy is under attack.
[01:49.960 --> 01:53.560] When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[01:53.560 --> 01:58.560] And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[01:58.560 --> 02:00.080] So protect your rights.
[02:00.080 --> 02:03.680] Say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[02:03.680 --> 02:06.320] Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
[02:06.320 --> 02:11.920] This message is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search engine alternative to Google,
[02:11.920 --> 02:13.640] Yahoo, and Bing.
[02:13.640 --> 02:17.280] Start over with StartPage.
[02:17.280 --> 02:20.720] When someone goes missing in the wilderness, it's a serious thing, right?
[02:20.720 --> 02:25.120] Well, not in the case of this hilarious true story from southern Iceland.
[02:25.120 --> 02:30.520] A tour bus stopped near the Elja volcano and a woman got off to change clothes and freshen
[02:30.520 --> 02:31.520] up.
[02:31.520 --> 02:35.920] When she returned, nobody recognized her, all snatched up, but they did notice the frumpy
[02:35.920 --> 02:38.560] woman who got off the bus never came back.
[02:38.560 --> 02:43.440] Worried, they put together a search party and spent hours combing the canyon.
[02:43.440 --> 02:48.320] High and low, they hunted in vain until 3 a.m. the next morning, when it finally dawned
[02:48.320 --> 02:51.640] on Ms. Makeover that she'd been searching for herself.
[02:51.640 --> 03:17.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[03:17.640 --> 03:43.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[03:43.640 --> 04:09.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[04:09.640 --> 04:37.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[04:37.640 --> 05:06.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[05:06.640 --> 05:28.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[05:28.640 --> 05:56.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[05:56.640 --> 06:24.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[06:24.640 --> 06:53.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, the world's most private search engine.
[06:53.640 --> 07:22.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[07:22.640 --> 07:49.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[07:49.640 --> 08:18.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, the world's most private search engine.
[08:18.640 --> 08:35.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[08:35.640 --> 08:58.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[08:58.640 --> 09:25.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, the world's most private search engine.
[09:25.640 --> 09:54.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[09:55.640 --> 10:23.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[10:23.640 --> 10:49.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[10:49.640 --> 11:18.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[11:19.640 --> 11:48.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[11:49.640 --> 12:17.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[12:17.640 --> 12:46.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[12:46.640 --> 13:15.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[13:15.640 --> 13:42.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[13:42.640 --> 14:11.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[14:11.640 --> 14:40.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[14:41.640 --> 15:10.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[15:11.640 --> 15:39.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[15:39.640 --> 16:08.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.
[16:09.640 --> 16:38.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[16:39.640 --> 16:59.640] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht.
[16:59.640 --> 17:15.640] Thought that I was doing well, but the truth to you I'll tell. MSGs and GMOs really ain't the way to go.
[17:15.640 --> 17:40.640] There's a better way I've seen. It's called Tangy Tangerine. And we're all drinking Tangy Tangerine.
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[17:55.640 --> 17:57.640] So what do you say, Elvis?
[17:57.640 --> 18:00.640] I am. I learn a lot.
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[21:38.640 --> 21:46.640] Okay folks, we are back. I am terribly sorry for the delay getting back on the air.
[21:46.640 --> 21:53.640] Randy is having a lot of technical problems that we're trying to resolve on the break that still have not been resolved.
[21:53.640 --> 22:01.640] So I do apologize for the extended break doing the best we can to try to get Randy back with us.
[22:01.640 --> 22:08.640] Anyway, we're just going to have to continue on right now and I will try to get Randy back on the next break.
[22:08.640 --> 22:20.640] In the meantime, we are going to our guest and we now have Ron Avery on the line and he is going to talk about secession.
[22:20.640 --> 22:39.640] So Ron, you sent me some talking points. I had a chance to briefly go over it, but I would like to give you the floor and if you would please just give us your take on this secession movement and your feelings about it and you seem to think that there are other alternatives.
[22:39.640 --> 22:41.640] So please go ahead.
[22:41.640 --> 22:47.640] Okay Deborah, well first of all, thank you for having me on your show.
[22:47.640 --> 23:10.640] It's hard to get this information out anywhere and however I would like to tell the listeners to watch the American Free Press edition next week as Mark Anderson has interviewed me at length and written a news story on dissolution,
[23:10.640 --> 23:19.640] a declaration of the observation of dissolution and as opposed to secession.
[23:19.640 --> 23:38.640] And it's kind of interesting in that issue, Ron Paul will be on the right hand side of the page and I will be on the left hand side of the page so you can read about secession on the right and a comparison of dissolution and secession on the left.
[23:38.640 --> 23:59.640] So anyway, when you said we would talk about secession, we certainly are and we're going to also talk about however the concept of dissolution and you know how popular this talk of secession is these days.
[23:59.640 --> 24:19.640] Just about a whole lot of people are talking about it and I mentioned Ron Paul, well the Texas Nationalist movement has talked about it and of course they've been talking about it for years and the 10th amendment group has been talking about it.
[24:19.640 --> 24:40.640] And just a whole lot of people have been talking about it and as you are aware they had all these petition signings at whitehousepetition.com or whatever it was where individuals went on under their state and signed a petition for secession.
[24:40.640 --> 24:50.640] But I want to talk about what secession really means and says when you do one.
[24:50.640 --> 24:58.640] And first let me tell you what dissolution is because this is really a new concept to most people.
[24:58.640 --> 25:11.640] Most people are familiar with secession because it's in our history as everyone should be well aware of the civil war, war between the states or whatever you want to call it.
[25:11.640 --> 25:23.640] That whole movement was called a secession and of course everybody talks about the right of secession and we'll get into that a little bit too.
[25:23.640 --> 25:29.640] But anyway let me begin by telling you what dissolution is.
[25:29.640 --> 25:48.640] A dissolution occurs when a nation or state changes the constitutional form of itself by law, by the passage of law, but without the required amendments to change the form.
[25:48.640 --> 26:05.640] And when this is done dissolution occurs and this dissolution does not require any action on behalf of the people.
[26:05.640 --> 26:12.640] In other words the people don't have to get together and say we dissolve this.
[26:12.640 --> 26:16.640] I'll talk more about that through the talking points I had.
[26:16.640 --> 26:24.640] Now Ron, before we continue can you please tell me where you are reading that definition of dissolution from?
[26:24.640 --> 26:30.640] Yeah, that's a good question. It's not new. I didn't come up with it. It's not my idea at all.
[26:30.640 --> 26:46.640] John Locke wrote about it in 1689 and in his book The Second Treaties of Government and this book was such a hot item that he couldn't sign it for fear of the king cutting his head off.
[26:46.640 --> 27:04.640] So in Thomas Jefferson said that all of American liberty is based on the two writers in their books. One was Algernon Sidney and his discourses of government and the other was The Second Treaties of Government by John Locke.
[27:04.640 --> 27:12.640] All our constitutions are based mainly upon John Locke's what he called the principles of property.
[27:12.640 --> 27:38.640] And the last chapter of his Second Treaties on Government covers the dissolution of government where he claims and shows by principle that governments dissolve themselves from within without the aid of a conquering army or a upset bunch of people that overthrow it.
[27:38.640 --> 28:02.640] So he essentially says that dissolution done by changing the form of a nation by law without amendments as required in their constitutions actually dissolves it and there's no other requirement made to dissolve it.
[28:02.640 --> 28:16.640] And what happens when it dissolves is that no one in it has any lawful authority to act for or against the people. So that's where I'm getting this.
[28:16.640 --> 28:32.640] Now Ron can you tell us how our system of government has changed according by passage of law or according to some kind of enactment of law without amendments where can you give us examples of how this has happened with us.
[28:32.640 --> 28:41.640] Absolutely. I don't know that I can name all of them that I've thought about in the past but I'm going to bring up one which is absolutely irrefutable.
[28:41.640 --> 28:56.640] And by the way you don't have to do this to every provision of a constitution. You only have to change one provision of the constitution by law without an amendment to dissolve the whole thing.
[28:56.640 --> 29:04.640] And so I can just give you the first example which actually wouldn't require any others.
[29:04.640 --> 29:26.640] We use paper currency in all 50 states of the Union. But Article 1, Section 10 of the United States Constitution, requires all the states of the Union to use or it actually forbids them from using paper debt notes as currency.
[29:26.640 --> 29:45.640] They are to use only gold and silver coin. And they enacted this paper currency by law on several occasions without amendments. So that's in effect it destroyed the economic system of America.
[29:45.640 --> 29:56.640] Okay Ron, let's hold that thought because we are going to break. Folks, this is the rule of law. Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens, we'll be back on the other side after this break with Ron Avery.
[29:56.640 --> 29:59.640] We're talking about secession and dissolution.
[29:59.640 --> 30:12.640] This is Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11. The government says that fire brought it down. However, 1500 architects and engineers have concluded it was a controlled demolition.
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[30:18.640 --> 30:19.640] I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
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[30:21.640 --> 30:22.640] I'm an Air Force pilot.
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[30:24.640 --> 30:26.640] We're Americans and we deserve the truth.
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[31:00.640 --> 31:09.640] It is so enlightening to listen to 90.1 FM, but finding things on the Internet isn't so easy, and neither is finding like-minded people to share it with.
[31:09.640 --> 31:12.640] Oh, well, I guess you haven't heard of Brave New Books then.
[31:12.640 --> 31:13.640] Brave New Books?
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[32:00.640 --> 32:11.640] Live free speech radio, logosradionetwork.com.
[32:11.640 --> 32:17.640] Yes, Mr. Office, I was taking the line ahead.
[32:17.640 --> 32:22.640] I want you to follow the law of the land.
[32:22.640 --> 32:25.640] I don't have to stand.
[32:25.640 --> 32:28.640] The job is difficult to serve.
[32:28.640 --> 32:31.640] Not the Arab youths.
[32:31.640 --> 32:33.640] How could this work?
[32:33.640 --> 32:39.640] When you're gonna stop abuse, then how, how, where?
[32:39.640 --> 32:45.640] When you're gonna stop abuse, then how, how, where?
[32:45.640 --> 32:50.640] When you're gonna stop abuse, then how, how, where?
[32:50.640 --> 32:56.640] When you're gonna stop abuse, then how, how, where?
[32:56.640 --> 33:01.640] So please, Mr. Michael, and each officer has to abuse their power.
[33:01.640 --> 33:07.640] Send a request to the leader, the captain of our officer.
[33:07.640 --> 33:10.640] Tell them to uphold the law.
[33:10.640 --> 33:12.640] Please don't abuse their power.
[33:12.640 --> 33:15.640] Okay, folks, we are back.
[33:15.640 --> 33:17.640] This is the Rule of Law.
[33:17.640 --> 33:23.640] Tonight is November 29th, Thursday, November 29th, 2012.
[33:23.640 --> 33:25.640] I'm one of your hosts, Deborah Stevens.
[33:25.640 --> 33:28.640] We're here with architect Ron Avery.
[33:28.640 --> 33:32.640] We're talking about legal issues tonight, however, and not 9-11.
[33:32.640 --> 33:35.640] We may talk about 9-11 a little bit later.
[33:35.640 --> 33:37.640] I believe we do have Randy back.
[33:37.640 --> 33:41.640] I can hear him a little bit in the background, so it's good to have him back.
[33:41.640 --> 33:46.640] And right now we're talking about secession and how that is different from dissolution.
[33:46.640 --> 33:56.640] And Ron, you were discussing the issue of dissolution being a situation where a system or a constitution,
[33:56.640 --> 34:01.640] system of government or constitution has been changed by law.
[34:01.640 --> 34:05.640] However, there have been no amendments, and you just gave one example of that.
[34:05.640 --> 34:07.640] So if you would please continue.
[34:07.640 --> 34:13.640] Give us some other examples of how our U.S. Constitution has been changed
[34:13.640 --> 34:20.640] or how our system of government is not functioning the way our U.S. Constitution dictates or states
[34:20.640 --> 34:26.640] and that there have actually been acts of law changing our system of government.
[34:26.640 --> 34:28.640] However, there have been no amendments.
[34:28.640 --> 34:33.640] I gave one example, and so if you would please give some more examples, just continue on, Ron.
[34:33.640 --> 34:34.640] Yes.
[34:34.640 --> 34:41.640] I don't spend all too much time on the examples, but because actually I don't have them in front of me
[34:41.640 --> 34:44.640] and you kind of have to rattle them off.
[34:44.640 --> 34:46.640] But I can think of another one.
[34:46.640 --> 34:56.640] I did mention the use of paper money, which is actually forbidden in Article 1, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution.
[34:56.640 --> 35:02.640] And that that was changed by law without an amendment.
[35:02.640 --> 35:11.640] And actually the effect of it is that it altered the form of the nation, altered the constitutional form of it
[35:11.640 --> 35:17.640] without the required amendments, which dissolves the country and the nation.
[35:17.640 --> 35:22.640] I can think of another one right off the top of my head, which is standing armies.
[35:22.640 --> 35:29.640] The federal government has maintained a standing federal army for over 60 years,
[35:29.640 --> 35:39.640] and they can only fund a federal standing army for two years after the conclusion of a lawfully declared war.
[35:39.640 --> 35:41.640] Good point.
[35:41.640 --> 35:42.640] Yes.
[35:42.640 --> 35:48.640] And in fact, all that stuff that's going on today is in Iraq, Afghanistan.
[35:48.640 --> 35:56.640] All that stuff is absolutely unconstitutional and causes dissolution of the country.
[35:56.640 --> 36:04.640] And there are other things, and rather than talk about them, I could get a list of them.
[36:04.640 --> 36:09.640] Maybe I'll get a list on the break and go through them all if we really wanted to do that later.
[36:09.640 --> 36:13.640] But I do have quite a few talking points here to cover.
[36:13.640 --> 36:14.640] Okay, yes.
[36:14.640 --> 36:15.640] Please continue.
[36:15.640 --> 36:16.640] Okay.
[36:16.640 --> 36:24.640] I'd like to kind of go to the difference between dissolution and secession.
[36:24.640 --> 36:26.640] Yeah, that's where I'm going.
[36:26.640 --> 36:30.640] And because that's really what the nature of this conversation is about,
[36:30.640 --> 36:35.640] because so many people are wanting to do it and talking about it,
[36:35.640 --> 36:47.640] and it really is a self-defeating avenue to deal with a dissolved union.
[36:47.640 --> 36:54.640] Why would anybody want to secede from something that doesn't lawfully exist?
[36:54.640 --> 37:01.640] A lot of people like to use the comparison to a marriage.
[37:01.640 --> 37:11.640] The League of the South would say, well, the marriage went bad between the states and the union.
[37:11.640 --> 37:17.640] And the way to solve that is to apply for a divorce.
[37:17.640 --> 37:19.640] And I say no way.
[37:19.640 --> 37:26.640] The only way you'd want to apply for a divorce is if your spouse is still living.
[37:26.640 --> 37:39.640] In this case, the spouse is the union, and it would have to prove to all of us that it is lawfully conformed to the United States Constitution.
[37:39.640 --> 37:51.640] And anywhere it's altered and formed, it has to produce the amendments to show how the alterations were approved by the people.
[37:51.640 --> 37:53.640] Now, they can't do that.
[37:53.640 --> 37:57.640] And this union is dissolved 10 times over.
[37:57.640 --> 37:58.640] Right.
[37:58.640 --> 37:59.640] And you gave the example.
[37:59.640 --> 38:02.640] We were discussing this on the phone.
[38:02.640 --> 38:09.640] If the federal government is dissolved because they have enacted these laws,
[38:09.640 --> 38:14.640] changing the form of government without amendment of the Constitution to secede,
[38:14.640 --> 38:20.640] in effect, you're saying is the same thing as filing for divorce against a spouse who is deceased.
[38:20.640 --> 38:22.640] You can't divorce a dead spouse.
[38:22.640 --> 38:23.640] Correct.
[38:23.640 --> 38:24.640] Correct.
[38:24.640 --> 38:27.640] I thought that was an interesting analogy there, but please continue.
[38:27.640 --> 38:33.640] I'd like to make a comment about that.
[38:33.640 --> 38:37.640] I tend to be a pragmatist.
[38:37.640 --> 38:47.640] And pragmatically, this federal government, it appears as though it's still functioning.
[38:47.640 --> 38:57.640] It appears as though we have officials who are expressing authority, arresting people, shooting people,
[38:57.640 --> 39:03.640] and doing these things that would give it the appearance that it's still functioning.
[39:03.640 --> 39:08.640] And, you know, if it walks like a duck and it squawks like a duck, I got to treat like one.
[39:08.640 --> 39:16.640] So if this thing is dead, we still have to deal with the walking dead.
[39:16.640 --> 39:23.640] Well, let me answer that for you very well.
[39:23.640 --> 39:34.640] Just because you have a government that exercises power does not mean you have a lawfully existing government.
[39:34.640 --> 39:43.640] If the government is exercising a power when it has had all of its authority removed from it by dissolution,
[39:43.640 --> 39:46.640] that's just plain and simple called tyranny.
[39:46.640 --> 39:52.640] It turns everybody in the Union government into tyrants,
[39:52.640 --> 39:58.640] because the very definition of tyranny is the exercise of power without authority.
[39:58.640 --> 40:08.640] Well, when they change the form of government without by a means that is not specified in the Constitution, which is an amendment,
[40:08.640 --> 40:15.640] they have actually altered the government without the amendment, thereby dissolving it and their own authority.
[40:15.640 --> 40:21.640] And we're going to get into why that's so important when we're talking about dissolution,
[40:21.640 --> 40:25.640] because I'll give you a little hint about it up front.
[40:25.640 --> 40:41.640] When you secede from a dissolved Union, you are actually making a judicial admission that the Union is lawfully conformed to its Constitution.
[40:41.640 --> 40:47.640] Otherwise, why would you be asking and pursuing a secession?
[40:47.640 --> 40:54.640] Because just as Deborah said, you don't ask for a divorce from a deceased spouse.
[40:54.640 --> 40:59.640] They're dead and gone, and that's all you do.
[40:59.640 --> 41:05.640] You might have a probate hearing, but you certainly don't have a divorce.
[41:05.640 --> 41:18.640] And so I'm amazed at all these people that want to give a judicial admission to a dissolved and tyrannical Union by saying that they want to secede from it.
[41:18.640 --> 41:25.640] I certainly don't want to do that, and there's a whole lot of problems with it that we're going to get into later on here.
[41:25.640 --> 41:37.640] Oh, there's one thing I wanted to further say, and this goes to your point, Randy, that if you have this government that's completely dissolved,
[41:37.640 --> 41:54.640] and it's still exercising power without authority, and we treat them in any other way than they're dissolved,
[41:54.640 --> 41:58.640] then tyranny has been perfected on this earth.
[41:58.640 --> 42:11.640] Because if tyranny results from the creation of a Constitution from which nobody can come out from under until the government is completely destroyed,
[42:11.640 --> 42:14.640] then that's the perfection of tyranny.
[42:14.640 --> 42:26.640] And we know that the constitutions were to protect liberty and property, and that they were not to be eternal.
[42:26.640 --> 42:38.640] If the party to the Constitution alters it without the required means, they just simply have dissolved it, and we don't have to observe any more of it.
[42:38.640 --> 42:40.640] That's the end of it.
[42:40.640 --> 42:48.640] Well, Ron, that's an interesting statement because in a sense it's sort of like a contract between two parties,
[42:48.640 --> 42:57.640] and if one party alters the contract without the consent of the other party, I mean basically the contract is void.
[42:57.640 --> 42:58.640] That's it.
[42:58.640 --> 42:59.640] It's dissolved.
[42:59.640 --> 43:00.640] Yeah, it's dissolved.
[43:00.640 --> 43:03.640] It's been repudiated, so to speak.
[43:03.640 --> 43:22.640] Okay, moving on, I would like to talk about what the comparison of what I'm calling a declaration of the observation of dissolution is and what it does in comparison to a secession.
[43:22.640 --> 43:34.640] Number two on my point is a declaration of observation of dissolution in the United States of America is not an act of any state or person or groups of states.
[43:34.640 --> 43:37.640] Okay, I guess we're going to take a break here.
[43:37.640 --> 43:42.640] We're going to take a break, and when we come back, we will discuss more of your points.
[43:42.640 --> 43:52.640] Callers, if you would just hold off, please, we'll probably take some calls next hour on topic, but in the meantime, we are here with Ron Avery.
[43:52.640 --> 43:55.640] We're discussing secession and dissolution, the differences and what is appropriate in this situation.
[43:55.640 --> 44:20.640] We'll be right back, folks.
[44:20.640 --> 44:46.640] We'll be right back, folks.
[44:46.640 --> 45:12.640] We'll be right back, folks.
[45:12.640 --> 45:41.640] We'll be right back, folks.
[45:41.640 --> 46:01.640] We'll be right back.
[46:01.640 --> 46:19.640] Okay, folks, we are back.
[46:19.640 --> 46:20.640] This is the rule of law.
[46:20.640 --> 46:27.640] We are speaking with Ron Avery about secession and dissolution, and Ron, please continue right where you left off when we went to break.
[46:27.640 --> 46:43.640] Okay, I was saying that the declaration of the observation of dissolution of the United States of America is not an act of any state or a person or group of states or people as is the act of secession,
[46:43.640 --> 46:57.640] where states immediately remove themselves and take their stuff and their property and with them, and they stop being in a relationship with the Union.
[46:57.640 --> 47:06.640] And secondly, another important thing about this dissolution versus secession is that it's not a threat.
[47:06.640 --> 47:10.640] This document does not threaten to do anything.
[47:10.640 --> 47:13.640] It's not threatening to secede.
[47:13.640 --> 47:18.640] It's not threatening to take property or do anything.
[47:18.640 --> 47:31.640] It is simply a statement that the Union is dissolved, and it sets forth the reasons and the principles by which they can prove the Union is dissolved.
[47:31.640 --> 47:42.640] And on the other hand, a secession actually stops all interaction between the state and the Union, and in this case, the dissolved Union.
[47:42.640 --> 47:58.640] And number three going on is that this declaration of dissolution does not actually dissolve the Union by the declaration.
[47:58.640 --> 48:10.640] It is only declares what has already happened as the result of tyrants altering the constitutional form of the nation without the required amendments.
[48:10.640 --> 48:28.640] And another issue is that another comparison is that a declaration of dissolution is simply an observation that is declared to the world that the Union is dissolved and without authority while secession, on the other hand,
[48:28.640 --> 48:36.640] recognizes the lawfulness of the Union in order that it may secede from it.
[48:36.640 --> 48:40.640] I'll just keep going.
[48:40.640 --> 48:49.640] The number five is that the declaration of dissolution proves the soundness of dissolution and how and when it occurred.
[48:49.640 --> 49:05.640] While secession merely is the exercise of a right perceived only by some to leave the Union at its own will and desire while the Union is or is not lawfully conformed to its constitution.
[49:05.640 --> 49:24.640] Another comparison is that a declaration of dissolution simply enumerates the facts and applies the sound principle to prove dissolution while secession is a judicial admission that the Union is lawfully existing
[49:24.640 --> 49:31.640] requiring the states to secede from it as if it was alive and well or conformed to its constitution.
[49:31.640 --> 49:45.640] And before we go on, this next point has several sub points which are very interesting, but if you've got any questions about that or if there's any callers, we might want to take that.
[49:45.640 --> 49:53.640] We do have a call, but before we take the call, just continue on with your talking points because I want Randy to have a chance to respond.
[49:53.640 --> 50:01.640] Okay. Well, you just stopped me any time. I may just keep going until I run out of them. That way we are sure to cover all of them.
[50:01.640 --> 50:12.640] Okay. And let's wait. Randy, do you have a... Randy's typing something here. Randy, what is your take on this? Do you have a comment or question so far?
[50:12.640 --> 50:17.640] I would rather you go through all these. I'll have comments later.
[50:17.640 --> 50:20.640] Okay. All right. Very good. Okay. Then just continue on.
[50:20.640 --> 50:41.640] Okay. The seventh point is that a declaration of dissolution demonstrates that dissolution was not the work of the people, but of their representatives and government, placing the infidelity on the Union as opposed to the rebellious state under secession.
[50:41.640 --> 50:51.640] And we brought up this marriage and divorce concept and death, and all of that applies here.
[50:51.640 --> 51:02.640] When a state secedes from the Union, they are perceived as covenant breakers, infidels and family wreckers lacking in moral character.
[51:02.640 --> 51:15.640] And also the old Union can use these arguments to muster the remaining good old states to teach the secessionist a lesson about the sacredness of the family.
[51:15.640 --> 51:37.640] But under dissolution, this whole theme is reversed. It is shown in an undeniable and irrefutable manner that it is the Union that went out whoring over the world and slept with the bankers, leaving the people and the states at the mercy of foreign and domestic intrigues.
[51:37.640 --> 51:59.640] Further, under the secession, the Union and remaining states are seen as victims of a breakup, while under the dissolution of the Union, under the dissolution, the Union alone is seen as the infidel that has shown disdain for its founding documents,
[51:59.640 --> 52:11.640] giving it a conditional authority, which they have trampled beneath their feet and have the audacity to demand continuing and eternal obedience to their tyranny.
[52:11.640 --> 52:27.640] Number eight, a declaration of dissolution shows that dissolution does not require the people to vote on it unless it is still lawfully conformed to its constitution, which we know it is not.
[52:27.640 --> 52:39.640] That means if you still had a Union and it was conformed to its constitution, but for some reason all the states said, you know what, it's really not what we want.
[52:39.640 --> 52:46.640] That way the states would all have to come together and vote to dissolve the Union.
[52:46.640 --> 52:56.640] But when it dissolves itself, the people don't have to do anything. What would be the purpose of the people voting to dissolve a dissolved Union?
[52:56.640 --> 53:11.640] So number nine is a declaration of dissolution releases all the states from their obligations to the dissolved Union, and this occurs all at once.
[53:11.640 --> 53:19.640] Under a declaration of dissolution, no state can linger behind with a dissolved Union government as its head.
[53:19.640 --> 53:34.640] And third, all states must face the facts and decide if it wants to remain tyrannical and assist tyranny or join a new Union with all the independent republics or states.
[53:34.640 --> 53:42.640] And number 10, a declaration of dissolution removes the authority of the dissolved Union.
[53:42.640 --> 53:52.640] And it initially, before the Union, can take any action. The whole world knows it is dissolved after that point.
[53:52.640 --> 54:07.640] And two points under this issue, number one, some have advocated that after secession, the succeeding states should join together and declare the old Union null and void.
[54:07.640 --> 54:17.640] This would be ludicrous because if the Union was not null and void prior to the secession, why did the states secede from it?
[54:17.640 --> 54:26.640] And the second point is how could states that are no longer a member of the Union declare it null and void?
[54:26.640 --> 54:32.640] That would be like Germany declaring that Russia is null and void.
[54:32.640 --> 54:52.640] So what I'm driving at here is that before any attempt is made to secede, you better think about this strongly because you will be cut off at that point from doing what needs to be done with a dissolved and tyrannical Union.
[54:52.640 --> 54:56.640] Number 11. Here I would like to make a comment.
[54:56.640 --> 55:07.640] Okay. If the states seceded, you're absolutely right, they would have nothing to say about a federal government.
[55:07.640 --> 55:15.640] They wouldn't care. You know, Texas is the 15th largest economy on the planet.
[55:15.640 --> 55:33.640] They don't need the federal government. They don't need the other states. And this whole argument of dissolution goes to the presupposition that secession is simply for the purpose of reforming the federal Union.
[55:33.640 --> 55:35.640] But I don't see it that way.
[55:35.640 --> 55:43.640] I see Texas is wanting to secede and not reform a federal enclave.
[55:43.640 --> 55:56.640] Well, I will get to this in a minute because what we're going to find out is many of the states are just as dissolved as the federal Union is and for the same reason.
[55:56.640 --> 56:11.640] So one of the good things about forming a new Union is that you could require the purging of all these laws that have changed the forms of the state without amendments.
[56:11.640 --> 56:21.640] And there's several I can give you examples of how the state of Texas, the present state of Texas, is dissolved by showing the same thing.
[56:21.640 --> 56:27.640] Changes in form of government without the required amendments under Article 17.
[56:27.640 --> 56:39.640] So now, issue 11. A declaration of dissolution should be made prior to any state making any decisions regarding a new Union.
[56:39.640 --> 56:48.640] And there's four points under this number 11. And one, it prevents the old Union head from it prevents it.
[56:48.640 --> 57:01.640] I'm sorry. It a declaration of dissolution prevents the old Union head from operating under the illusion of lawfulness any further.
[57:01.640 --> 57:13.640] And number two, it prevents the dissolved Union from competing with the new Union for sovereignty and recognition treaties with other nations.
[57:13.640 --> 57:25.640] Number three, other nations will not feel that they are compromising any loyalty to the dissolved Union by recognizing the new Union.
[57:25.640 --> 57:38.640] And number four, other nations are more likely to support a new Union knowing that the old Union is dissolved and why that is so.
[57:38.640 --> 57:43.640] In the 12th issue, there's only 13 of these, so we're almost done.
[57:43.640 --> 57:53.640] And finally, a declaration of dissolution puts all nations and global bankers on notice that they should not continue to do business.
[57:53.640 --> 57:55.640] Are we taking a break?
[57:55.640 --> 58:00.640] We are coming to the top of the hour, but finish it up because we've got about 50, 60 seconds left.
[58:00.640 --> 58:15.640] Okay. This was kind of all right. Finally, the declaration of dissolution puts all nations and global bankers on notice that they should not continue to do business with a dissolved and lawful old Union government
[58:15.640 --> 58:23.640] that may not be able to oppress its people any longer to serve the interests of global bankers.
[58:23.640 --> 58:34.640] And the best way to repudiate debt that was unlawfully established in America is to show that the old Union is dissolved and has been for many years.
[58:34.640 --> 58:47.640] And that those who have been instrumental in destroying America to steal its wealth have no moral claim to an enforceable contract to impoverish and enslave the people of this land any longer.
[58:47.640 --> 58:50.640] All right. We're going to break. We'll be right back.
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[59:59.640 --> 01:00:12.640] Swallow counting. It sounds like something you might do at Mission San Juan Campus, Toronto, when the sky fills with birds, but counting how many times you swallow could improve your health.
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[01:04:31.640 --> 01:04:37.640] Okay, folks, we are back. This is the Rule of Law. I am one of your hosts, Deborah Stevens, here with Randy Kelton.
[01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:47.640] We have a very special guest, Mr. Ron Avery, architect, of course, one of the signatories of the Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth Petition.
[01:04:47.640 --> 01:05:00.640] We've done several events with Ron. In the past, Ron and I organized an event a few years ago, a conference with several architects and engineers breaking it down, the 9-11 Truth thing.
[01:05:00.640 --> 01:05:06.640] We're not talking about that particular tonight. Ron is talking about secession and this solution.
[01:05:06.640 --> 01:05:18.640] And Ron is going to finish his talking points, and then we're going to open the floor for discussion for myself, Randy, and another very special guest, my all-time favorite guest, Mr. Harmon Taylor.
[01:05:18.640 --> 01:05:27.640] I gave him a call on the last segment to let him know what we were talking about because I think he would have a very special perspective on this matter.
[01:05:27.640 --> 01:05:35.640] And so, Harmon is now in the conversation, and he will be commenting as well. I have a few questions for Harmon about this that I'm going to ask in a few minutes.
[01:05:35.640 --> 01:05:43.640] So, Ron, we brought Harmon up to speed on the break. So, Ron, if you would please continue with your talking points, and then I want to ask Harmon a question. Go ahead, Ron.
[01:05:43.640 --> 01:05:54.640] Okay, great. The last point, and there's 13 of these, and some of these had subpoints, and number 13 has two subpoints.
[01:05:54.640 --> 01:06:12.640] That is that when a declaration of dissolution is made, all the released independent republics or states should come together to make a new union based upon all the things we have learned over the last 200 years.
[01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:27.640] And number one under that is this is a way to restore some of the states that have also been dissolved by changing their constitutional form without the required amendments in order to accommodate the old union.
[01:06:27.640 --> 01:06:38.640] And number two under 13 is that all states would be required to purge their unconstitutional laws prior to joining the union.
[01:06:38.640 --> 01:06:47.640] And I'm talking about their own constitution, and that's for the protection of the property of their own citizens.
[01:06:47.640 --> 01:06:53.640] So, I'm finished with my talking points, and anybody wants to fire away?
[01:06:53.640 --> 01:07:05.640] Yeah, I would like to fire away. Okay, one of the main reasons that I wanted to bring Harmon on is because he talks frequently about commercial agreements,
[01:07:05.640 --> 01:07:10.640] inadvertently establishing commercial agreements with the government and other types of agreements, et cetera.
[01:07:10.640 --> 01:07:23.640] And, Ron, when you first started bringing up the secession versus dissolution issue, one of the things that you said earlier in the show was that if the states declare secession,
[01:07:23.640 --> 01:07:39.640] they are making what you call a judicial admission that the federal government has adhered to its, you know, end of the contract, so to speak, by not altering its basic construction,
[01:07:39.640 --> 01:07:55.640] constructional form, its form of government, its system, i.e. what's laid out in the Constitution, without amendment. Again, you talked about the fact that the dissolution,
[01:07:55.640 --> 01:08:09.640] your definition of dissolution that you mentioned from John Locke had to do with a government changing its form of government, its construction, its system by act of Congress and not by amendment.
[01:08:09.640 --> 01:08:21.640] Okay, so my concern is, and you're calling it a judicial admission of it being legitimate if the states secede, and my concern, and the reason I wanted to bring Harmon on,
[01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:38.640] is that by filing for secession, it would go even further than that, that the states would actually be inadvertently agreeing to the illegitimate change that the federal government made.
[01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:54.640] By filing for secession, that they would not only be admitting that it's legitimate, but that they would be agreeing to whatever changes that the feds made without amendment.
[01:08:54.640 --> 01:09:06.640] So Harmon, what is your take on that by filing for secession? Does that either reinforce the agreement or establish a new agreement to whatever changes the feds made?
[01:09:06.640 --> 01:09:16.640] More than appreciate the call and the opportunity to participate in the conversation and really appreciate the efforts that Ron is doing through his organization,
[01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:30.640] help people understand that popular word on S11 isn't anything close to what happened. On secession, in particular, the fundamental premise that Ron's talking about is quite correct,
[01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:45.640] when the thought is, if there's no compact there, if there's no national organization there, and there isn't, then what's the point of secession?
[01:09:45.640 --> 01:10:01.640] There's not an organization from which to leave. So just on the concept there, I wanted to start there because that's logic, that's basic, it's elementary.
[01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:15.640] Now we're dealing with the issue of, is there or is there not a national organization? One of the things that I do now is help people through a paradigm shift, which is wicked, it really is.
[01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:21.640] I describe it in writing with the word rather, it's a rather wicked paradigm shift, but it's a wicked paradigm shift.
[01:10:21.640 --> 01:10:31.640] Fundamentally, there was never a national organization to begin with. This is at the heart and soul of everything that we're dealing with legally right now.
[01:10:31.640 --> 01:10:40.640] There are a lot of very well-intended, very intelligent people going with what they learned in junior high and high school about government.
[01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:52.640] And our teachers, all of them, for however long, have in very good faith taught us the basics about what they were taught about the government.
[01:10:52.640 --> 01:11:06.640] And fundamentally, the whole thing got off track from the beginning. It takes longer than we've got right now to discuss, but at the end of the day, there was never a constitution in the first place.
[01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:13.640] There was never admissible evidence of law. Now the Supreme Court in several cases describes it as a compact.
[01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:25.640] Okay, we can go with a compact. That compact created nothing and in effect did nothing except set aside the Articles of Confederation.
[01:11:25.640 --> 01:11:40.640] So where all we're doing here is fleshing out the premise. The premise is if there's no national organization, then succession makes no sense because there's nothing to leave.
[01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:49.640] All we're talking about here is when, not if, when the national organization ever formed.
[01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:53.640] And the answer is it never formed in the first place.
[01:11:53.640 --> 01:12:06.640] I'd like to bring up a point with that. I'm familiar with lots of people who say that and make that claim, certainly, and that's not a new claim by any means.
[01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:17.640] I think that was, I can't remember the man's name. I probably got his book around here somewhere, but he claimed there never was a union, a lawful union formed.
[01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:30.640] And of course, we're also dealing today with another movement called anarchy and anarchists are very big right now and they talk about stateism.
[01:12:30.640 --> 01:12:41.640] And that's anybody that believes that a lawful state can be created and anarchists really don't believe a lawful state can be created at all.
[01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:59.640] And they believe it's immoral to even attempt it. So what I'm, the point I'm going to try to make here is that I know that Randy said he was a pragmatist and I want to be somewhat of a pragmatist here too.
[01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:12.640] If your claim is that a lawful government was never made in the union, it makes it hard to declare it dissolved.
[01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:18.640] And there are so many people that aren't going to agree with that analysis in the first place.
[01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:40.640] And I personally don't agree with it either. And we can get into all that. But the reason why that's a weak position is that if you're an anarchist and you don't believe in lawful government and that lawful government cannot be created.
[01:13:40.640 --> 01:13:52.640] And those that do attempt to create them are immoral and not really whole people, not have evolved into the higher forms of life, they claim.
[01:13:52.640 --> 01:14:05.640] How would you talk about an unlawful government when all governments are unlawful and never have been created?
[01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:17.640] So anarchists really kind of shoot themselves in the feet because they don't have any ground to prove that something's unlawful, to prove a government's unlawful.
[01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:23.640] Because in their mind, all of them are unlawful.
[01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:38.640] Well, there's an issue here about lawful and unlawful. We're talking about whether the system was created by law through a democratic lawmaking process which was never activated, or whether it's a commercial system.
[01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:44.640] The fact that there's no constitution means there's no constitutional government. It doesn't mean there's no government.
[01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:59.640] It just means that it's created commercially and it functions commercially. So you may be right about the anarchist. I don't have an opinion about that right now, but that's not the position I'm coming from at all.
[01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:04.640] And it's okay to disagree with it. Like I mentioned, it's a wicked paradigm shift.
[01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:15.640] From where I am, it's not really a matter of whether it can be agreed to or not. It's simply a matter of how long does it take someone to work through the paradigm shift to understand it.
[01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:31.640] Well, Harman, let me ask you something. You just mentioned about the commercial agreement. If the states file for secession, does that in effect either reinforce a commercial agreement or does it create a new one?
[01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:35.640] How does that work?
[01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:50.640] Okay. Well, we had, I'll say, three different transitions of systems from the beginning. We've never had a constitutional one. We had something that went up until, what, about 1861 or so, and then something after that.
[01:15:50.640 --> 01:16:04.640] And it's changed again recently, but of course the major change was in 1965. And that's the thing Ron's talking about with the money. And yeah, huge change there.
[01:16:04.640 --> 01:16:14.640] So I'm going to start in 65. Why? Because that's where the choice of law changed from Genesis until 1965.
[01:16:14.640 --> 01:16:24.640] Everything, hey, Rome got sideways with this for a little while. We'll take that as an exception. But fundamentally, all systems worked on a legitimate money system.
[01:16:24.640 --> 01:16:32.640] Honest weights and measures, mostly silver, not exclusively that. But there's a choice of law that goes with that. It's the law of the land.
[01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:41.640] And in the Anglo-Saxon history, what we would consider to be the ancient common law, of course, has its origin of Scripture.
[01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:49.640] So we go to Scripture, we see all these things about money. Money and silver are synonymous concepts. To say one is to mean the other.
[01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:51.640] To say the other is to mean the one.
[01:16:51.640 --> 01:16:58.640] Okay, hold on. We're going to break. We'll be right back on the other side with Harmon Taylor and Ron Avery. We'll be right back.
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[01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:30.640] Okay folks, we are back. This is the rule of law and we may have to have both of these gentlemen back to discuss this issue because I have a feeling we're gonna run out of time in the show before we really get this entire discussion out.
[01:20:30.640 --> 01:20:43.640] Randy had a question that he wanted to propose and a point to make but before that, Harmon was gonna finish what he was saying about the monetary issues. So Harmon, if you please continue and then we'll go to Randy.
[01:20:43.640 --> 01:21:02.640] Yeah, just really briefly. What happened in 1965 in the taking out of circulation, out of general circulation, the last vestiges of honest weights and measures couldn't have happened while Kennedy was in office so they had to assassinate him to accomplish this.
[01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:16.640] The result is a total change in the foundational choice of law of the system. So we went from fun, I mean going through all kinds of details here very quickly, hitting the highlights.
[01:21:16.640 --> 01:21:26.640] We went from a law of the land system to a law of the sea system essentially overnight. A constitutional system, if it exists, has to be founded in the law of the land.
[01:21:26.640 --> 01:21:41.640] A law of the sea system doesn't go for constitution. A law of the sea system is commercial. So it totally changed the interaction between the system and the people and their commercial enterprises.
[01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:47.640] Well, can I address that now? Your statement there.
[01:21:47.640 --> 01:21:50.640] Yeah, I'm halfway through it but go ahead.
[01:21:50.640 --> 01:22:01.640] Well, go ahead and finish up then. The concept about the system means we've totally changed the structure of what we call government, totally changed it.
[01:22:01.640 --> 01:22:13.640] So the relationship between the individual and this system went from being one that could arguably have been based on law to one that's wholly based on commercial agreements.
[01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:25.640] I call them gotcha agreements. It's not entirely that. There is a citizenship deal which comes through on the national side, the social security system, and on the state side, the driver's license system.
[01:22:25.640 --> 01:22:37.640] We get into citizenship kinds of things there. But the mechanism by which the system purports to govern isn't law. It's agreement.
[01:22:37.640 --> 01:22:55.640] And this is why it teach federal means federal. It means federal. If we're talking about interactions between common wells, states, nations, whatever label we want to put on that body politic, then those body politics interact federally, which means what?
[01:22:55.640 --> 01:22:59.640] By compact or by treaty.
[01:22:59.640 --> 01:23:10.640] When a system interacts with its people, we can also use the term federal. But in that context, the definition is by agreement.
[01:23:10.640 --> 01:23:18.640] So conceptually then, the idea of succession makes no sense.
[01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:33.640] In our current situation, we have no states and we can get to that conclusion through several different ways. For this issue, the root doesn't matter if we end up with the understanding that there are no states forming a union.
[01:23:33.640 --> 01:23:39.640] Okay, there's a bunch of commercial enterprises forming a marketplace.
[01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:48.640] Those commercial enterprises have absolutely no desire to leave whether they're leaving the funny web system.
[01:23:48.640 --> 01:23:55.640] So succession on that level is just illogical under our current circumstance.
[01:23:55.640 --> 01:24:04.640] There's nothing to leave. There's no union. It's a marketplace. And to leave the marketplace is real easy. Stop using the funny money.
[01:24:04.640 --> 01:24:12.640] I really want to get out from what we're doing right now. The answer is use honest weights and measures.
[01:24:12.640 --> 01:24:28.640] Well, that's kind of a nice statement. But I don't know that you can tell the world that the world will recognize the power of the statement you're making by saying,
[01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:37.640] tomorrow morning we're going to start using honest weights and measures. I don't think most people in the world would even understand what you're talking about.
[01:24:37.640 --> 01:24:45.640] Well, that doesn't change the law, Ron. It may change the implementation of it. And we can talk about what we agree with and don't.
[01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:55.640] The question is what is the law? And the answer is we can change the choice of law by changing the currency. So go ahead.
[01:24:55.640 --> 01:25:13.640] Well, the point, it was kind of interesting the way you went about that, describing the paradigm shifts the evolution of a constitution into commercial contract law that regulates everything.
[01:25:13.640 --> 01:25:27.640] And actually ended up with the conclusion that I would have to, but based on another theory, you have shown that there aren't any lawful states left either.
[01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:35.640] So that really is. And I've said the same thing based on the same idea of dissolution.
[01:25:35.640 --> 01:25:51.640] If the states have altered their constitutions in order to accommodate this paradigm shift within their own state, then you don't have lawful states to secede from an unlawful union or a dissolved union.
[01:25:51.640 --> 01:25:59.640] So you have dissolved states attempting to secede from a dissolved union, which is absolutely ludicrous.
[01:25:59.640 --> 01:26:05.640] It doesn't take respect to anarchy.
[01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:22.640] No, what it does is it shows us that we need lawful government in America again because we haven't had a lawful government in America for probably 100 years at any level, state or federal.
[01:26:22.640 --> 01:26:35.640] Okay, Randy, you had a comment about secession and just something about from a pragmatic point of view as a means of a mechanism.
[01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:39.640] What is your question comment here on this issue?
[01:26:39.640 --> 01:26:56.640] If we had lawful government and one of the states wanted to secede from that lawful government, then the way we're using the term secede would be directly accurate.
[01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:11.640] We would be seceding from lawful government, but in taking Harmon's position that we don't have that lawful government anymore. Now what we have is contract.
[01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:19.640] Now, what we do is what it is without regard to what we call it.
[01:27:19.640 --> 01:27:26.640] If I file a motion, the motion is what the motion is that make any difference what I call the motion.
[01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:44.640] So if I secede from a contractual agreement, it would probably be more appropriate to call it an abdication of the contract, but it would have the same effect.
[01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:56.640] If we are only in a contractual arrangement with these individuals and we declare a separation, don't we just repudiate the contract and wouldn't have the same effect?
[01:27:56.640 --> 01:28:02.640] The agreements at issue there are not likely going to be allowed breached.
[01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:19.640] In other words, the only way through that maze is to know where those agreements got started, complete them, never enter into them again, and let it go.
[01:28:19.640 --> 01:28:26.640] There's no way we can stop, just walk away from the agreement. It's not going to happen.
[01:28:26.640 --> 01:28:34.640] The other side could say, okay, we'll just stop enforcing them. That's what I'm saying is never going to happen.
[01:28:34.640 --> 01:28:44.640] So the way through the maze, it starts with understanding that we've never had a constitution.
[01:28:44.640 --> 01:28:56.640] And what that helps the mind get to eventually is, okay, if this system isn't there by law, why is it there? Okay, why is General Motors there?
[01:28:56.640 --> 01:29:04.640] Why is Southwest Airlines there? Answer, someone declared a commercial entity into existence.
[01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:14.640] Okay, someone declared that thing into existence. And it's morphed from time to time.
[01:29:14.640 --> 01:29:20.640] So what it started out as and what it is now is not the same thing.
[01:29:20.640 --> 01:29:34.640] But in that process, because we as a nation had no idea, I mean, who knew? Nobody knew. Had no idea what the connection was between circulating silver and what the choice of law was.
[01:29:34.640 --> 01:29:49.640] Nobody knew. Okay, we know now. And at the end of the day, the solution is to start with understanding that we've never had what we've been taught state level or national.
[01:29:49.640 --> 01:29:54.640] And that the relationship here is a commercial relationship.
[01:29:54.640 --> 01:30:00.640] Okay, listen, we're going to break. We'll be right back, folks. This is a rule of law.
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[01:32:00.640 --> 01:32:10.640] You are listening to the Logos Radio Network. LogosRadioNetwork.com.
[01:32:10.640 --> 01:32:18.640] Yeah, who you want to check? Who you take me for? Free toilet? Who you want to check? Me, no free toilet. You can't check me.
[01:32:18.640 --> 01:32:24.640] All the time. Don't let them check you in the morning. Check you in the evening. Put a check in on your body.
[01:32:24.640 --> 01:32:34.640] And anyway, you go computer reading. You can't hide me if I'm nobody when you say. Check check in on your mom. Check in on your daddy. Check in on your grandpa and the granny.
[01:32:34.640 --> 01:32:41.640] Check in on me. Check in on your baby. Check in on your family. Who will family? Check in on your dad. And they kept around me.
[01:32:41.640 --> 01:32:48.640] Check in on the beef. And you still got EP. Check in on the fish. Them are all in the sea. Check in on the shark. And they reel around me.
[01:32:48.640 --> 01:32:55.640] You know, she man can't go and check crazy. Check the clinic room. And they want to repeat. Social security. They got therapy.
[01:32:55.640 --> 01:33:03.640] Number with them. Give me them. Repeat what you see. Check you in the morning. Check you in the evening. Check you out again. All the time.
[01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:10.640] Experiments and mankind. But man, you know, say them lie. Well, who you want to check? Man, you have your body.
[01:33:10.640 --> 01:33:17.640] Free them of something. Man, you're right for me. You should tell them. They'll be ready. Constitution set us free.
[01:33:17.640 --> 01:33:25.640] Don't let them put no chip in your body. Put no chip in your dog. I'll catch you see. Put no chip in your cow. I'm going to eat you.
[01:33:25.640 --> 01:33:32.640] Put no chip in the fish. I'm going to eat you. All in the wheel and the shark in the sea. Put the little chip in the little baby.
[01:33:32.640 --> 01:33:35.640] Want to put the chip in the ground for your sea. Want to put the little chip in the ground for your sea.
[01:33:35.640 --> 01:33:43.640] Okay, folks. We are back. All right. We have another couple of points to go over here. And then we're going to start taking your calls.
[01:33:43.640 --> 01:33:54.640] We've got several callers on the board here. And I guess basically just going back to the secession issue and what that would really mean.
[01:33:54.640 --> 01:34:08.640] And Ron was saying earlier in the show that he believes that would indicate if the states tried to secede that that would indicate that they would be making some kind of admission that the federal
[01:34:08.640 --> 01:34:15.640] government was a legitimate form of government that they had not changed their structure without amendment, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:34:15.640 --> 01:34:25.640] And my main question coming at it from a different angle of agreement or commercial agreement is if the states attempted to do such a thing,
[01:34:25.640 --> 01:34:44.640] would that indicate that the states or counties, as Harmon calls them, would be admitting or agreeing to whatever change in the contract that the feds did apparently without their consent prior to that?
[01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:48.640] Do you understand my question here, Harmon? Yeah, I got it.
[01:34:48.640 --> 01:35:00.640] Ron, Harmon, what is your take on it? Well, fundamentally, where Ron's headed as a logical conclusion is quite correct as at the end of the day,
[01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:10.640] whether we see states as the constitutional entities we've been taught or what they are, which is just basically commercial systems,
[01:35:10.640 --> 01:35:24.640] the concept of secession, if we have a legit state, the concept of secession does say there's an organization there from which to leave.
[01:35:24.640 --> 01:35:41.640] The two pieces of that go together quite well. If we presume that, then, yeah, to secede from an organization is to say that the organization existed.
[01:35:41.640 --> 01:35:54.640] Correct? Okay. The organization has never existed. No state has technically, no state's ever been anything but a commercial entity. If there's an exception of that, it'd be Alabama and Texas.
[01:35:54.640 --> 01:36:02.640] And neither one of those two survived the war and northern aggression. No system survived the change in choice of law in 1965.
[01:36:02.640 --> 01:36:14.640] So, however we get there to today in November of 2012, there are no constitutional systems at the state level.
[01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:26.640] There are no constitutional systems at the national level. So, we're talking about commercial entities and that is not ever going to produce a secession by a state.
[01:36:26.640 --> 01:36:32.640] To leave is possible but it's an act of an individual.
[01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:45.640] Harman, one of the problems with proving a dissolution of the union would be to have no constitution that ever took effect in the first place.
[01:36:45.640 --> 01:37:03.640] If there was never a union of the 13 original colonies and they never came together and they didn't fight a war and they didn't agree to come together as the United States of America and they wrote a frivolous document for commercial purposes,
[01:37:03.640 --> 01:37:12.640] that's pretty flimsy groundwork to lay and then try to come back later and show that the union is dissolved.
[01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:20.640] You're the one presuming a dissolution, Ron. I'm saying it's impossible for it to dissolve because it never existed.
[01:37:20.640 --> 01:37:29.640] Well, I'm just saying it's harder to prove a dissolution from something that never happened because there's no law to look at.
[01:37:29.640 --> 01:37:36.640] Why are we trying to prove a dissolution?
[01:37:36.640 --> 01:37:43.640] Well, because there's a union up there that pretends to be a union and they have a supreme court and they have no union.
[01:37:43.640 --> 01:37:47.640] We haven't had states since the 17th Amendment.
[01:37:47.640 --> 01:37:50.640] Well, it's never been a dissolution.
[01:37:50.640 --> 01:37:53.640] Okay, I don't know that that's worth the time.
[01:37:53.640 --> 01:38:00.640] First of all, I don't think it's appropriate either to just say everything's been turned into commercial law.
[01:38:00.640 --> 01:38:07.640] We have to conform to commerce. We don't have to conform to commerce.
[01:38:07.640 --> 01:38:12.640] There's nothing in the universe that says all men don't conform to commerce.
[01:38:12.640 --> 01:38:14.640] Yeah, there is.
[01:38:14.640 --> 01:38:16.640] Hold on, Harmon. What's that?
[01:38:16.640 --> 01:38:21.640] It sounds like both of you are going to the exact same place.
[01:38:21.640 --> 01:38:28.640] The conclusion, Ron, you're saying that union doesn't exist.
[01:38:28.640 --> 01:38:31.640] You're saying union doesn't exist.
[01:38:31.640 --> 01:38:32.640] It's never exist.
[01:38:32.640 --> 01:38:35.640] You're just using different perspectives to get there.
[01:38:35.640 --> 01:38:36.640] Yeah.
[01:38:36.640 --> 01:38:41.640] So we don't have to, and what you said, Ron, we don't have to dissolve the union.
[01:38:41.640 --> 01:38:45.640] It's only exist anyway. It's already dissolved if it exists.
[01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:48.640] So we're kind of both in the same place.
[01:38:48.640 --> 01:38:56.640] We are, but what I'm talking about is actually taking a step as a declaration to notify the world.
[01:38:56.640 --> 01:39:00.640] It doesn't know this. The common man on the street doesn't know this.
[01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:02.640] They don't know that the union is dissolved.
[01:39:02.640 --> 01:39:06.640] But if you try to tell them that it never existed and couldn't never...
[01:39:06.640 --> 01:39:09.640] I did tell them that it never existed. That's exactly what I do.
[01:39:09.640 --> 01:39:12.640] Been doing it since about, what, 2001?
[01:39:12.640 --> 01:39:15.640] Well, that's good. Here's what I'm going to suggest.
[01:39:15.640 --> 01:39:18.640] I'm just going to disagree with you.
[01:39:18.640 --> 01:39:19.640] You may.
[01:39:19.640 --> 01:39:20.640] And I'm going to advocate...
[01:39:20.640 --> 01:39:22.640] You're in great company.
[01:39:22.640 --> 01:39:25.640] Everyone this side of the Supreme Court would agree with you.
[01:39:25.640 --> 01:39:28.640] I'm sorry?
[01:39:28.640 --> 01:39:36.640] Everyone this side of the Supreme Court of the United States agrees with you, with few exceptions.
[01:39:36.640 --> 01:39:37.640] Okay.
[01:39:37.640 --> 01:39:39.640] Okay. So we've got some calls on the board.
[01:39:39.640 --> 01:39:42.640] Let's try to take some calls here.
[01:39:42.640 --> 01:39:45.640] We've got a few minutes left of the show, about 20 minutes left.
[01:39:45.640 --> 01:39:47.640] Let's see. We've got Doug in Texas.
[01:39:47.640 --> 01:39:48.640] You called in first.
[01:39:48.640 --> 01:39:51.640] We're going to kind of have to blaze through the calls here.
[01:39:51.640 --> 01:39:56.640] Doug, what is your question comment?
[01:39:56.640 --> 01:40:05.640] Well, basically, I'm sitting out here as a working man, living in a system that I don't understand.
[01:40:05.640 --> 01:40:07.640] I was born into it.
[01:40:07.640 --> 01:40:13.640] I listen to what Mr. Avery is saying, and I don't disagree with him.
[01:40:13.640 --> 01:40:18.640] But let's assume, let's look at this like a bully in a playground.
[01:40:18.640 --> 01:40:23.640] Say there's a bully in the playground that pushes everybody around, and we all get together
[01:40:23.640 --> 01:40:28.640] and we one day decide we're going to declare you're no longer a bully.
[01:40:28.640 --> 01:40:33.640] Well, the first thing that bully's going to do is come and kick my butt.
[01:40:33.640 --> 01:40:38.640] He's not going to stop being a bully because I declare he isn't.
[01:40:38.640 --> 01:40:40.640] So what am I supposed to do?
[01:40:40.640 --> 01:40:50.640] As a working person, I'm going to continue to get kicked around by this bully, by this tyrant, by this union that doesn't exist.
[01:40:50.640 --> 01:40:54.640] There's no way out for me.
[01:40:54.640 --> 01:41:00.640] I'm simply a pawn in a system that is a whole lot bigger than me.
[01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:04.640] I mean, it's almost like the self-fulfilling prophecy.
[01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:14.640] People do and believe socially whatever they want to do and believe, and I'm stuck in it whether I like it or not.
[01:41:14.640 --> 01:41:19.640] And what people believe is more powerful than the rule of law.
[01:41:19.640 --> 01:41:24.640] They have the ability to push me around and I can't stop it.
[01:41:24.640 --> 01:41:33.640] So my question to everyone there is, as a small individual, what am I supposed to do?
[01:41:33.640 --> 01:41:40.640] I mean, I'm all in favor of declaring that the union is dissolved, but that's not going to stop the bully from pushing me around.
[01:41:40.640 --> 01:41:43.640] So what am I supposed to do?
[01:41:43.640 --> 01:41:45.640] Can I take that first?
[01:41:45.640 --> 01:41:55.640] The reason is this is one of the great advantages of a declaration of the observation of dissolution is because you're not in the document.
[01:41:55.640 --> 01:41:59.640] You're not really declaring it or making it dissolve.
[01:41:59.640 --> 01:42:06.640] You're only showing why it is dissolved and that it has been dissolved for a long time.
[01:42:06.640 --> 01:42:08.640] And it's not taking your stuff.
[01:42:08.640 --> 01:42:23.640] It's not a state yanking all of its stuff out of the union and not paying taxes and all the people quit paying taxes and entering into commercial contracts by some kind of inadvertence.
[01:42:23.640 --> 01:42:30.640] The beauty of a declaration of the observation of dissolution is it's no act at all.
[01:42:30.640 --> 01:42:37.640] It's just a declaration of a fact and a principle and everybody can look at it and say, well, I'll be damned.
[01:42:37.640 --> 01:42:39.640] We really don't have it.
[01:42:39.640 --> 01:42:43.640] We really don't have a union and we haven't had it for a long time.
[01:42:43.640 --> 01:42:45.640] But they're not going to say that.
[01:42:45.640 --> 01:42:53.640] 99% of the people out there, the pawns and those in control, are going to continue to operate business as usual.
[01:42:53.640 --> 01:42:55.640] They're going to continue to kick us around.
[01:42:55.640 --> 01:42:58.640] We're going to continue to succumb to their tyranny.
[01:42:58.640 --> 01:43:05.640] That piece of paper, I mean, it may make us feel good for about five minutes, but it's not going to stop them from being bullied.
[01:43:05.640 --> 01:43:08.640] Well, it does put them on notice, though.
[01:43:08.640 --> 01:43:15.640] Back in the Bible, when these guys saw the finger riding on the wall, all of them lost power in their knees.
[01:43:15.640 --> 01:43:17.640] Everybody's knees began to shake.
[01:43:17.640 --> 01:43:26.640] You can't make a declaration that's as powerful as a declaration of dissolution and publish it all over the world
[01:43:26.640 --> 01:43:33.640] and think that everything's going to be the same and everybody's going to do business as usual.
[01:43:33.640 --> 01:43:41.640] That's going to have an effect.
[01:43:41.640 --> 01:43:44.640] Okay, listen, we've got to go to break now.
[01:43:44.640 --> 01:43:47.640] We've got some more callers on the line.
[01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:54.640] We will be right back after this break with our very special guest, Ron Avery, and also Harmon Taylor, chiming in.
[01:43:54.640 --> 01:44:00.640] We'll be right back, folks.
[01:44:00.640 --> 01:44:09.640] It is so enlightening to listen to 90.1 FM, but finding things on the Internet isn't so easy, and neither is finding like-minded people to share it with.
[01:44:09.640 --> 01:44:12.640] Oh, well, I guess you haven't heard of Brave New Books, then.
[01:44:12.640 --> 01:44:13.640] Brave New Books?
[01:44:13.640 --> 01:44:20.640] Yes, Brave New Books has all the books and DVDs you're looking for by authors like Alex Jones, Ron Paul, and G. Albert Griffin.
[01:44:20.640 --> 01:44:24.640] They even stock inner food, Burkey products, and Calvin Soaps.
[01:44:24.640 --> 01:44:26.640] There's no way a place like that exists.
[01:44:26.640 --> 01:44:31.640] Go check it out for yourself. It's downtown at 1904 Guadalupe Street, just south of UT.
[01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:35.640] Oh, by UT? There's never anywhere to park down there.
[01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:43.640] Actually, they now offer a free hour of parking for paying customers at the 500 MLK parking facility just behind the bookstore.
[01:44:43.640 --> 01:44:46.640] It does exist, but when are they open?
[01:44:46.640 --> 01:44:59.640] Monday through Saturday, 11 a.m. to 9 p.m., and 1 to 6 p.m. on Sundays. So give them a call at 512-480-2503, or check out their events page at bravenewbookstore.com.
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[01:46:52.640 --> 01:46:57.640] It's a hot show. We're getting a lot of calls, a lot of Skype chats, a lot of emails.
[01:46:57.640 --> 01:47:03.640] So, folks, if you didn't get your call in tonight, don't worry, there'll be other opportunities.
[01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:08.640] We're going to go now to Rob in New Mexico. Rob, thank you for calling in.
[01:47:08.640 --> 01:47:11.640] What is your question, comment tonight on this issue?
[01:47:11.640 --> 01:47:16.640] Well, I want to thank everybody for their opinions. It's been an incredible discussion.
[01:47:16.640 --> 01:47:22.640] One of the reasons I love your show so much is because you focus on a remedy.
[01:47:22.640 --> 01:47:28.640] I agree with most of what Mr. Avery is saying. I agree with all of what Mr. Taylor is saying.
[01:47:28.640 --> 01:47:36.640] I just don't see any remedy. No matter what we do on this, the fact of the ATF and the FBI is there.
[01:47:36.640 --> 01:47:46.640] Whether it's a legitimate government or not, they're a government out of DC or Virginia or whatever the hell they are, they're run by the bankers, and they're not going to let us go willingly.
[01:47:46.640 --> 01:48:01.640] I don't see any remedy to this dissolution. The rest of the international community is run by the same people, and essentially, I see it coming down to a shooting war.
[01:48:01.640 --> 01:48:17.640] Can I take that, Rob? Again, as I told Doug, one of the reasons I like this declaration of the observation of dissolution is because it's not an act that makes the union come after you.
[01:48:17.640 --> 01:48:42.640] It's like introducing a virus, and the virus has this slow eating process over time, once it's published far and wide, that begins to eat upon the effectiveness of the union to do bad and continue bad things.
[01:48:42.640 --> 01:49:02.640] I know fully what you're talking about. Where I see secession is actually an act. The secession is saying, I'm taking my ball, I'm taking my property, I'm taking all my stuff, and I'm leaving, and we're not paying any more union taxes or federal income taxes or any of that.
[01:49:02.640 --> 01:49:19.640] Now, that is going to draw a union wrath, but a simple declaration of the observation of the dissolution of the union. You're not withholding any from it. Everybody keeps paying union taxes. Everybody keeps going.
[01:49:19.640 --> 01:49:41.640] But it does tell everybody involved, including the states and the people, and people worldwide, that we know that our union is not lawfully existing, and it cautions everybody. You better be watching out for dealing with a dissolved union.
[01:49:41.640 --> 01:49:59.640] Well, can I follow up on that? Sure. You know, I'm in a position, I'm an over the road truck driver, I get paid direct deposit. I have to use the funding money system to a large degree. I know who I am, I know where I am.
[01:49:59.640 --> 01:50:11.640] I know that the country, you know, I know where it is, I know where it's going, and I just don't see, they're just going to laugh at that. I don't see it making any difference.
[01:50:11.640 --> 01:50:22.640] Most of our sheriffs, we've got some good sheriffs. I've got a great sheriff in my county. Most of our sheriffs are either corrupt or brain dead. Most of our governors are corrupt or brain dead.
[01:50:22.640 --> 01:50:31.640] Most of our state legislatures are corrupt or brain dead, and our federal legislature is completely corrupt or brain dead with, you know, maybe two or three exceptions.
[01:50:31.640 --> 01:50:44.640] And I just don't see, I don't see that this is going to really, I don't see any remedy in this. I think it's a great idea. I love it. It sounds fantastic.
[01:50:44.640 --> 01:50:54.640] But to me, it sounds like, you know, most of the patriot mythology stuff that sounds good and is true, but has no enforcement and no remedy.
[01:50:54.640 --> 01:51:08.640] Let me ask you, Rob, how do you think the declaration of observation of dissolution stacks up against secession? Would you be in more favor of some state attempting to secede?
[01:51:08.640 --> 01:51:14.640] To be honest with you, I'd be more in favor of pushing the envelope and making them react at this point.
[01:51:14.640 --> 01:51:16.640] With secession?
[01:51:16.640 --> 01:51:27.640] Well, whatever it takes. The best way to call out tyrants is to show them as tyrants. And I just think this is something that they're going to ignore. I like it. I'd sign it.
[01:51:27.640 --> 01:51:31.640] The secession or the declaration of dissolution?
[01:51:31.640 --> 01:51:32.640] Both.
[01:51:32.640 --> 01:51:37.640] Okay. That's a good answer.
[01:51:37.640 --> 01:51:48.640] I'm willing to do whatever it takes at this point. I've got kids. I've got a grandchild and, you know, I'm willing to see them go through all this.
[01:51:48.640 --> 01:51:49.640] I want it to happen.
[01:51:49.640 --> 01:51:52.640] I understand.
[01:51:52.640 --> 01:51:56.640] I'm not pushing it under the next generation.
[01:51:56.640 --> 01:51:59.640] Well, I fully understand that.
[01:51:59.640 --> 01:52:08.640] Well, we certainly don't advocate on this show violence or firing the first shot, so to speak.
[01:52:08.640 --> 01:52:09.640] Oh, absolutely.
[01:52:09.640 --> 01:52:20.640] And I personally do believe that there are remedies other than that because I have seen remedies work on this show for various different situations.
[01:52:20.640 --> 01:52:27.640] And I mean, Frederick Graves is right. You have to take it into the court system. You have to know what you're doing.
[01:52:27.640 --> 01:52:34.640] Harmon advocates changing one's commercial behavior as a remedy. There are remedies.
[01:52:34.640 --> 01:52:47.640] Absolutely. No, I agree with you 100%. And I don't want to see any kind of violence. All I'm saying is that, you know, we need to expose these people for what they are and for what they've done to us.
[01:52:47.640 --> 01:52:57.640] I mean, thanks to you guys and Alex Jones, I have two beautiful, slightly over two-year-old twin girls that have never had a needle stuck in them.
[01:52:57.640 --> 01:53:03.640] And if it wasn't for you guys, you know, that wouldn't be the case. I used to believe wholeheartedly in vaccinations.
[01:53:03.640 --> 01:53:12.640] I thought that was necessary for health. And I've got two beautiful daughters who, you know, never had more than a sniffle a day in their life.
[01:53:12.640 --> 01:53:18.640] Before you, Ron, I hope you listen to Sean Siegel's show on Sundays on this network, The Vaccine Myth.
[01:53:18.640 --> 01:53:21.640] I will start you now that I have a listener line number.
[01:53:21.640 --> 01:53:32.640] Well, yeah, well, listening online is the best because we actually need people to listen online because that gets our numbers up on ShoutCast so that we can try to attract sponsors.
[01:53:32.640 --> 01:53:40.640] And really, this network does not have a listener line. This is a caller line. The line that you are on right now is a caller line for people who want to call and talk on the air.
[01:53:40.640 --> 01:53:49.640] It's not a listener line. And this network actually does not have a listener line. There is another network that rebroadcasts this network.
[01:53:49.640 --> 01:53:58.640] It's called TexasLibertyRadioTXLR.net. They rebroadcast a few different networks' stream. They have a listener line, but it's not mine.
[01:53:58.640 --> 01:54:09.640] And so I do actually really strongly request that people listen online because we need to get those numbers up on ShoutCast so that I can get sponsors so that I can find a way to pay for all of this.
[01:54:09.640 --> 01:54:16.640] So at any rate, Rob, thank you for the call. We need to move on because we've got limited time left and thank you so much for listening and calling in.
[01:54:16.640 --> 01:54:17.640] Thank you, Deborah.
[01:54:17.640 --> 01:54:22.640] Thank you. All right. LogosRadioNetwork.com is where you go to listen.
[01:54:22.640 --> 01:54:29.640] All right. We've got John in Texas. John, thank you for calling in. What is your question and comment tonight?
[01:54:29.640 --> 01:54:39.640] Oh, you know, I've been listening for like 90 minutes and we've jumped from the solutions to session. Very interesting topic. And I was going to bring up notification.
[01:54:39.640 --> 01:54:50.640] You know, the theory that the state has the right to nullify or invalidate any federal law that the state has declared unconstitutional.
[01:54:50.640 --> 01:55:04.640] But we've jumped so far beyond that into maritime law and basically we've come all the way around to where we live actually in a state of perpetual martial law in the United States because none of this is legitimate.
[01:55:04.640 --> 01:55:15.640] And that's exactly back in 1776 what we declared our independence from was the crown and the martial law that existed within the colonies.
[01:55:15.640 --> 01:55:28.640] So we've come like full circle with all this discussion. So I just like to see what the, I kind of agree with Ron on dissolution because I think it's the most basic way to advance forward.
[01:55:28.640 --> 01:55:40.640] But the whole concept is just amazing to me as we've gone full circle back to where we were back in 1776. So I just like to hear what they have to say about that and be great.
[01:55:40.640 --> 01:55:46.640] That's great, John. I agree that we've come full circle.
[01:55:46.640 --> 01:56:00.640] And no matter whether you want to call this stuff martial law or commercial law or what are tyranny, whatever you want to call it, it's not it's not constitutional law.
[01:56:00.640 --> 01:56:10.640] In other words, nobody agreed to it. Nobody fought for it. Nobody died for it. They just gave it to us and imposed it upon us.
[01:56:10.640 --> 01:56:32.640] So again, I would still advocate and back to what Rob was saying too, and Doug too, are we going to just do nothing?
[01:56:32.640 --> 01:56:49.640] I mean, because most things seem to be ineffective, are we going to do nothing? Well, I'm not in favor of doing nothing because some people have said that when the monetary system completely collapses,
[01:56:49.640 --> 01:56:57.640] sovereignty and freedom will return to the people.
[01:56:57.640 --> 01:57:07.640] And I don't agree with that. I mean, when your system totally collapses and you've got no money and no currency and no nothing going on,
[01:57:07.640 --> 01:57:17.640] this is not a powerful state to be in. And many other countries and other tyrants around the world will certainly take advantage of them,
[01:57:17.640 --> 01:57:29.640] like we do presently with other countries that don't have strong, powerful commerce and economics.
[01:57:29.640 --> 01:57:37.640] So the idea of just sitting and waiting for nothing or collapse, I don't think is a good idea.
[01:57:37.640 --> 01:57:43.640] Well, I think you touched on that when you said sovereign because the word is just amazing. Who creates what?
[01:57:43.640 --> 01:57:54.640] That's right. That's right. And man created government, so we're all goddess sovereign and over man and man is sovereign over government.
[01:57:54.640 --> 01:57:58.640] I think that's the solution. We just have to figure out how to work that.
[01:57:58.640 --> 01:58:02.640] Well, yeah, I spent a lot of time on that.
[01:58:02.640 --> 01:58:09.640] Alright, folks. Clint, I see you there. John, thank you for calling in. I'm sorry we are out of time. What a hot topic.
[01:58:09.640 --> 01:58:17.640] We're going to have to continue this topic in the weeks to come and have Ron and Harmon on again to discuss these issues.
[01:58:17.640 --> 01:58:21.640] Ron, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
[01:58:21.640 --> 01:58:23.640] My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
[01:58:23.640 --> 01:58:27.640] And Harmon, also thank you for coming on at the last minute like this.
[01:58:27.640 --> 01:58:29.640] Thanks for the invite. Always glad to be here.
[01:58:29.640 --> 01:58:33.640] Alright. Clint, we'll have to take your call on this at another time.
[01:58:33.640 --> 01:58:41.640] So, folks, tune in tomorrow night for the four hour info marathon with Randy Kelton and call in.
[01:58:41.640 --> 01:58:50.640] Save up your questions and we will see you tomorrow night. Good night and God bless.
[01:58:50.640 --> 01:59:08.640] The Bible's for America is offering absolutely free, a unique study Bible called the New Testament Recovery Version.
[01:59:08.640 --> 01:59:20.640] Order your free copy today from Bibles for America. Call us toll free at 888-551-0102 or visit us online at bfa.org.
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[01:59:52.640 --> 02:00:00.640] You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at www.logosradionetwork.com.