ROL_2010-04-15_16k.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:04.800]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[00:04.800 --> 00:09.560]  Paul Saltzman, attorney for the Clearinghouse Association, a group which includes Bank of
[00:09.560 --> 00:14.720]  America and JP Morgan Chase, says the biggest U.S. commercial banks will take their fight
[00:14.720 --> 00:20.960]  against disclosure of Federal Reserve lending in 2008 to the Supreme Court if necessary.
[00:20.960 --> 00:25.560]  Saltzman added, quote, our member banks are very concerned about real-time disclosure
[00:25.560 --> 00:29.920]  of information that could cause a run on the banks.
[00:29.920 --> 00:35.360]  At Linyard Assistant Commissioner John Yates said Wednesday, British police must be armed
[00:35.360 --> 00:40.600]  with even more powerful weapons to deal with a Mumbai-style terrorist attack.
[00:40.600 --> 00:45.560]  Security sources have told the government that unless police are backed, summoning the
[00:45.560 --> 00:49.600]  army could be the only option in the event of an attack.
[00:49.600 --> 00:53.760]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[00:53.760 --> 00:58.000]  The latest New York Times-CBS poll has found Tea Party supporters are wealthier and better
[00:58.000 --> 01:00.480]  educated than the general public.
[01:00.480 --> 01:05.600]  The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican,
[01:05.600 --> 01:09.000]  white, male, married, and over 45 years old.
[01:09.000 --> 01:13.400]  They hold more conservative views on a range of issues than Republicans generally.
[01:13.400 --> 01:19.640]  They are also more likely to describe themselves as very conservative and Barack Obama as very
[01:19.640 --> 01:21.080]  liberal.
[01:21.080 --> 01:25.280]  While most Republicans say they are dissatisfied with Washington, Tea Party supporters are
[01:25.280 --> 01:28.640]  more likely to classify themselves as angry.
[01:28.640 --> 01:32.960]  The Tea Party movement burst onto the scene a year ago in protest to the economic stimulus
[01:32.960 --> 01:38.760]  package and its supporters have vowed to purge the Republican Party of officials they consider
[01:38.760 --> 01:44.400]  not sufficiently conservative and block the Democratic agenda on the economy, the environment,
[01:44.400 --> 01:45.400]  and healthcare.
[01:45.400 --> 01:49.560]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[01:49.560 --> 01:54.720]  Lieutenant General Keith Alexander, director of the National Security Agency, says the
[01:54.720 --> 02:00.200]  U.S. must fire back against cyber attacks swiftly and strongly and should act to counter
[02:00.200 --> 02:04.640]  or disable a threat even when the attacker's identity is unknown.
[02:04.640 --> 02:10.640]  Alexander, who is the Obama administration's nominee, to also become head of the new cyber
[02:10.640 --> 02:15.520]  command says the U.S. should not be deterred from taking action against countries such
[02:15.520 --> 02:19.600]  as Iran and North Korea just because they might launch cyber attacks.
[02:19.600 --> 02:24.560]  Alexander says, quote, even with the clear understanding that we could experience damage
[02:24.560 --> 02:28.640]  in our infrastructure, we must be prepared to fight.
[02:28.640 --> 02:34.280]  Alexander's answers reflect the threat of cyber terrorism, which defies borders, operates
[02:34.280 --> 02:39.080]  at the speed of light, and can provide deep cover for assailants.
[02:39.080 --> 02:43.200]  Alexander was answering questions in preparation for a Senate Armed Service Committee hearing
[02:43.200 --> 02:46.920]  Thursday on his nomination to head cyber command.
[02:46.920 --> 03:01.560]  For more information, visit innworldreport.net.
[03:01.560 --> 03:08.560]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech
[03:08.560 --> 03:18.040]  and talk radio at its best.
[03:18.040 --> 03:43.960]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at its best.
[03:43.960 --> 03:45.400]  What you gonna do?
[03:45.400 --> 03:47.700]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:47.700 --> 03:49.460]  Bad boys, bad boys.
[03:49.460 --> 03:50.840]  What you gonna do?
[03:50.840 --> 03:53.400]  What you gonna do when they come for you?
[03:53.400 --> 03:56.100]  When you were eight and you had bad traits?
[03:56.100 --> 03:58.900]  You go to school and learn the golden rules.
[03:58.900 --> 04:01.620]  So why are you actin' like a fluffy boot?
[04:01.620 --> 04:03.100]  If you get high, and you-
[04:03.100 --> 04:04.900]  Bad boys, bad boys.
[04:04.900 --> 04:08.680]  What are you going to do when they come for you?
[04:08.680 --> 04:12.640]  Especially the bad boys behind the Oklahoma City bombing.
[04:12.640 --> 04:19.360]  This is The Rule of Law, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens, and tonight for the
[04:19.360 --> 04:23.960]  next hour and a half, you're going to hear a very special re-broadcast from the press
[04:23.960 --> 04:30.000]  conference on the steps of the state capitol in Oklahoma City earlier today.
[04:30.000 --> 04:33.200]  Chris Emery organized this press conference.
[04:33.200 --> 04:43.160]  There was V.Z. Lawton, Hoppe Heidelberg, Harmon Taylor, and many others, Janie Coverdale,
[04:43.160 --> 04:48.600]  speaking concerning the cover-up of the Oklahoma City bombing and the fact that it was an inside
[04:48.600 --> 04:50.640]  job and all the evidence.
[04:50.640 --> 04:56.280]  You're going to be hearing that for the next hour and a half, and then we'll be going live
[04:56.280 --> 04:58.160]  again after that.
[04:58.160 --> 05:04.360]  So please enjoy the press conference from earlier today.
[05:04.360 --> 05:10.880]  Okay if we can, we'll hold down on the, ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention please?
[05:10.880 --> 05:14.400]  Excuse me folks, can I have your attention?
[05:14.400 --> 05:17.560]  Due to the fact that we have a vaulted ceiling here, we're going to be dealing with a lot
[05:17.560 --> 05:21.400]  of ambient noise and echoes, so if we can keep the miscellaneous chatter to a minimum,
[05:21.400 --> 05:22.400]  that would be great.
[05:22.400 --> 05:29.160]  We are also broadcasting this interview in the press conference for a radio station,
[05:29.160 --> 05:34.160]  actually 19 different AM and FM stations throughout the U.S. on a network out of Austin, Texas.
[05:34.160 --> 05:38.600]  So any help that you can give me to really keep the miscellaneous chatter down, that
[05:38.600 --> 05:39.600]  would be great.
[05:39.600 --> 05:42.200]  Excuse me folks, we're about ready to get started.
[05:42.200 --> 05:46.200]  We're going to do a live feed here, thanks.
[05:46.200 --> 05:52.000]  Good afternoon, and I want to welcome to the Oklahoma State Capitol to the 15-year anniversary
[05:52.000 --> 05:55.120]  commemorative press conference.
[05:55.120 --> 06:02.000]  We are here as a group of concerned citizens for the press, victims, family members, survivors,
[06:02.000 --> 06:06.800]  members of the, former member of the federal grand jury that was a panel to actually hear
[06:06.800 --> 06:12.120]  the evidence and the pleadings for the federal trial for the Tim McVeigh federal trial back
[06:12.120 --> 06:13.780]  in 1997.
[06:13.780 --> 06:20.480]  My name is Christopher Emery, I'm a co-executive producer at the OTR Film Productions here
[06:20.480 --> 06:23.920]  in Oklahoma City, independent film company, and I've been working on a feature-length
[06:23.920 --> 06:30.480]  film on the Oklahoma City bombing and we are due to release that film within the next year.
[06:30.480 --> 06:33.760]  And the inspiration behind this press conference for the members of the media, I wonder why
[06:33.760 --> 06:37.960]  we're getting together, is that there are still several dozen unanswered questions regarding
[06:37.960 --> 06:39.440]  this case.
[06:39.440 --> 06:43.600]  The significance of the state Supreme Court corridor is twofold.
[06:43.600 --> 06:48.160]  If you look over your shoulder to the, to my left here, we have the state constitution
[06:48.160 --> 06:54.560]  actually encased in, I believe, bulletproof glass, and it has inscribed on the state constitution
[06:54.560 --> 07:00.080]  the provision to a panel in Malta County grand jury at the will of the citizens if they have
[07:00.080 --> 07:02.620]  enough petitions.
[07:02.620 --> 07:08.880]  Back in 1997, the nonprofit group, the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation Committee comprised
[07:08.880 --> 07:14.760]  of actually a gentleman that's here today, Mr. B. Z. Lotton, a survivor of the bombing,
[07:14.760 --> 07:22.040]  and four other, three other gentlemen tried to actually petition to a panel that grant
[07:22.040 --> 07:26.600]  at the protest of the then governor, Frank Heating, and our current Attorney General
[07:26.600 --> 07:27.600]  Drew Edmondson.
[07:27.600 --> 07:32.440]  They did not want that multi-counted grand jury impaneled, and it had to go all the way
[07:32.440 --> 07:34.320]  to the state Supreme Court.
[07:34.320 --> 07:38.280]  The big mahogany doors behind us is where they heard that case, and it was actually
[07:38.280 --> 07:43.120]  ruled in favor of the bombing investigation committee, and it is a matter of law.
[07:43.120 --> 07:47.520]  It is a matter of record, so there will not be any shenanigans pulled like that again
[07:47.520 --> 07:51.240]  ever, hopefully, within case law in the state of Oklahoma.
[07:51.240 --> 07:53.280]  And of course, we are here in the State Capitol building.
[07:53.280 --> 07:57.280]  I want to thank the crew that helped us set up and plan for this.
[07:57.280 --> 08:03.480]  We owe them a lot of gratitude, and since it is a public area, we have the right to
[08:03.480 --> 08:06.080]  be here, and they really have been overbackwards to help us out.
[08:06.080 --> 08:09.240]  So thank you to the maintenance staff of the Capitol building.
[08:09.240 --> 08:14.880]  What I want to get started on first is just going through the lineup of the speakers that
[08:14.880 --> 08:19.400]  we're going to have, and since we are limited on our time here, we are supposed to wrap
[08:19.400 --> 08:22.240]  up and pretty much be done by 4.30.
[08:22.240 --> 08:26.760]  We're going to have them stand up and say their piece and their concern about the case
[08:26.760 --> 08:28.040]  for about eight minutes each.
[08:28.040 --> 08:30.160]  Our first speaker will be Jenny Coverdale.
[08:30.160 --> 08:34.440]  She's a grandmother of two of the children that were actually killed in the bombing,
[08:34.440 --> 08:39.560]  two-and-a-half-year-old and a five-and-a-half-year-old grandson, Aaron and Elijah Coverdale.
[08:39.560 --> 08:43.760]  Then we're going to have her followed by Joseph Cooley, who's been doing a lot of research
[08:43.760 --> 08:49.040]  in a related case, a very closely related case to the murder of Officer Terrence Yankee,
[08:49.040 --> 08:53.760]  seven-year veteran of the Oklahoma City Police Department, followed by Harmon Taylor, who
[08:53.760 --> 09:00.200]  actually filed a lawsuit that helped stay the execution of Timothée Bay back in May
[09:00.200 --> 09:03.040]  of 2001 for 30 days.
[09:03.040 --> 09:07.800]  Mr. Taylor was actually the attorney that filed that litigation on behalf of two survivors,
[09:07.800 --> 09:08.800]  again, B.Z.
[09:08.800 --> 09:12.600]  Lotton and Ms. Jane Graham, who were both in the Murrah Building at the time of the
[09:12.600 --> 09:13.600]  bombing.
[09:13.600 --> 09:19.760]  Then we're going to follow Harmon by Mr. Lotton and then, of course, Hoppe Heidelberg, who
[09:19.760 --> 09:23.840]  was the only member of the 12-member grand jury, the federal grand jury, that was impaneled
[09:23.840 --> 09:27.240]  in January of 95.
[09:27.240 --> 09:32.800]  They recessed in October of 95, who was actually dismissed from the grand jury without cause
[09:32.800 --> 09:36.900]  because he was asking relevant questions, and Judge David Russell refused to acknowledge
[09:36.900 --> 09:40.760]  those questions in a two-and-a-half page letter that was sent to him.
[09:40.760 --> 09:44.800]  And then we will wrap up the speakers with Mr. Pat Shannon, who is the associate editor
[09:44.800 --> 09:48.920]  of American Free Press, which is based out of Washington, D.C.
[09:48.920 --> 09:53.840]  We're very grateful to have Pat travel all the way to Oklahoma City here to speak.
[09:53.840 --> 09:57.440]  Andrew Griffin, a member of the Independent Press, want to thank him for attending.
[09:57.440 --> 10:03.200]  He's with oklahomawatchdog.org and redjuryreport.com.
[10:03.200 --> 10:07.920]  So without further ado, once again, I want to thank you for attending.
[10:07.920 --> 10:11.320]  And we also want to acknowledge, before we continue on, if you may stand up, we have
[10:11.320 --> 10:16.440]  Vicki and Lashawn, who are both sisters of Terrence Hakey, the police officer.
[10:16.440 --> 10:17.440]  Thank you for coming, ladies.
[10:17.440 --> 10:23.240]  We really appreciate that.
[10:23.240 --> 10:25.800]  And once again, if you bear with me on the acoustics, I think this is going to turn out
[10:25.800 --> 10:26.800]  really well.
[10:26.800 --> 10:32.400]  And by the way, if you are so inspired and if you'd be kind enough just to do it quietly,
[10:32.400 --> 10:34.200]  you're welcome to step up to the media table here.
[10:34.200 --> 10:35.200]  We have index cards.
[10:35.200 --> 10:38.680]  If you would like to scribble down one question that you would like reviewed in the question
[10:38.680 --> 10:42.120]  and answer session after the speakers are done, we will line up their chairs here.
[10:42.120 --> 10:44.640]  And we'll be more than happy to field those questions for you.
[10:44.640 --> 10:49.320]  We'll just simply remove the mic from the podium and have a flexible mic there.
[10:49.320 --> 10:55.560]  And the final report, real quick, is a definitive source book for the case.
[10:55.560 --> 11:00.840]  If you are so inspired or want to go ahead and get a copy, a donation of $20, is all
[11:00.840 --> 11:01.840]  we ask.
[11:01.840 --> 11:05.480]  And we'll be available for questions after the press conference, too.
[11:05.480 --> 11:10.800]  Without further delay, I'm very honored to ask Ms. Janie Coverdale to come to the stage.
[11:10.800 --> 11:15.040]  She has quite a story to tell and would love to hear her share her thoughts.
[11:15.040 --> 11:20.040]  Ms. Janie Coverdale.
[11:20.040 --> 11:38.240]  Hello, I'm Janie Coverdale.
[11:38.240 --> 11:47.520]  On April 19, 1995, I lost two grandsons, Aaron and Elijah Coverdale.
[11:47.520 --> 11:57.960]  Since, I would say, about six months after the bombing, we've been asking questions and
[11:57.960 --> 12:00.600]  we haven't gotten any answers.
[12:00.600 --> 12:03.520]  We want to know who blew up the building.
[12:03.520 --> 12:07.000]  We know Timothy McVeigh was guilty.
[12:07.000 --> 12:11.200]  We know Terry Nichols was guilty to a certain extent.
[12:11.200 --> 12:15.720]  But Terry Nichols wasn't in Oklahoma City that Wednesday morning.
[12:15.720 --> 12:19.440]  Somebody else was, a lot of people were.
[12:19.440 --> 12:26.280]  We have eyewitnesses, say about 50 eyewitnesses, that saw Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City
[12:26.280 --> 12:28.200]  that Wednesday morning.
[12:28.200 --> 12:31.880]  Not one saw him by himself.
[12:31.880 --> 12:36.200]  Not one was called to testify.
[12:36.200 --> 12:39.200]  I was in Denver.
[12:39.200 --> 12:46.960]  Tim Tumlin, Marvin Buckner and I spent days and days down at the U.S. Attorney's Office
[12:46.960 --> 12:49.400]  asking questions.
[12:49.400 --> 12:55.960]  I was told to attend the trials in Denver and all of my questions would be answered.
[12:55.960 --> 13:03.640]  Needless to say, after Terry Nichols' trial was over, I had more questions.
[13:03.640 --> 13:07.200]  I have written, I wrote Janet Reno.
[13:07.200 --> 13:10.720]  I talked face-to-face with Bill Clinton.
[13:10.720 --> 13:12.840]  I wrote Louis Free.
[13:12.840 --> 13:16.960]  I've written politicians all over Washington.
[13:16.960 --> 13:19.520]  I've written state politicians.
[13:19.520 --> 13:20.960]  Nobody will help us.
[13:20.960 --> 13:26.600]  In fact, when I wrote the politicians here in the state of Oklahoma, I got one reply
[13:26.600 --> 13:31.880]  and it was from Governor Brad Henry and it was a form letter.
[13:31.880 --> 13:34.920]  I tore it up in little pieces and threw it in the trash.
[13:34.920 --> 13:35.920]  I regret that.
[13:35.920 --> 13:42.240]  I should have tore it up and mailed it back to him.
[13:42.240 --> 13:44.240]  Nobody will help us.
[13:44.240 --> 13:52.560]  So now there's a book out that just came out and it's written by David Paul Hammer.
[13:52.560 --> 13:55.560]  Some of you might know him because he's from Oklahoma City.
[13:55.560 --> 14:01.480]  He was on death row with Timothy McVeigh in Terrell, Indiana.
[14:01.480 --> 14:10.480]  And in order for Hammer to sort of help protect him, he decided to give, to tell Hammer what
[14:10.480 --> 14:13.240]  really happened.
[14:13.240 --> 14:18.480]  The book is naming names, dates, and everything.
[14:18.480 --> 14:22.320]  So I advise anybody to read the book.
[14:22.320 --> 14:31.000]  The name of the book is Deadly Secrets, Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing.
[14:31.000 --> 14:40.000]  And I believe once the bombing has been solved, the murder of Terry Yaking, the murder of
[14:40.000 --> 14:47.700]  Kenny Trenton will also be solved because I believe they were all connected.
[14:47.700 --> 14:52.160]  But you're not going to get the answer to your brother's murder until we get the answer
[14:52.160 --> 14:54.480]  to the bombings.
[14:54.480 --> 15:03.520]  If Tim was telling the truth, he was working with the government.
[15:03.520 --> 15:06.960]  That's why he blew up the building.
[15:06.960 --> 15:10.120]  So we need all the help we can get.
[15:10.120 --> 15:17.960]  The news media will not help us, especially the Oklahoma City news media.
[15:17.960 --> 15:24.520]  The only news media that has helped us so far is Fox 25, the rest of them have ignored
[15:24.520 --> 15:25.520]  us.
[15:25.520 --> 15:28.680]  They will not touch the bombing.
[15:28.680 --> 15:29.680]  And I wonder why.
[15:29.680 --> 15:34.200]  I would like for them to explain that to me too.
[15:34.200 --> 15:38.320]  Because you know, they were my grandchildren that died in 95.
[15:38.320 --> 15:42.600]  God only knows whose grandchildren they're going to be the next time.
[15:42.600 --> 15:46.360]  We lost a lot of babies that day.
[15:46.360 --> 15:52.840]  I knew 15 of them, and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about those babies
[15:52.840 --> 15:55.760]  and wonder who killed them.
[15:55.760 --> 15:56.760]  Thank you.
[15:56.760 --> 16:09.560]  We're going to do a little change up on the lineup here.
[16:09.560 --> 16:13.960]  We have Wendy Painting who flew in from upstate New York.
[16:13.960 --> 16:19.680]  Originally, we did not have her on the outline, but Wendy, I'd like to bring her to the podium.
[16:19.680 --> 16:26.480]  Ms. Painting and I met in New York City back on the fifth year anniversary of the Oklahoma
[16:26.480 --> 16:36.400]  City 9-11 tragedy, and hold on one second, I'm going to adjust the volume on this.
[16:36.400 --> 16:40.520]  And she had approached me, I was speaking at City Church in Midtown Manhattan on the
[16:40.520 --> 16:45.320]  connections between the Oklahoma City case and 9-11, and she had approached me to buy
[16:45.320 --> 16:48.280]  a copy of the final report.
[16:48.280 --> 16:50.120]  That was in September of 06.
[16:50.120 --> 16:51.600]  Since then, we've struck up a friendship.
[16:51.600 --> 16:53.280]  She's flown several times.
[16:53.280 --> 16:57.520]  We can't even begin to count how many times between here and Austin, Texas to reach her
[16:57.520 --> 16:58.520]  to this case.
[16:58.520 --> 17:11.400]  Without further delay, let me introduce Ms. Wendy Painting.
[17:11.400 --> 17:12.400]  Hi.
[17:12.400 --> 17:13.400]  It's good to be here.
[17:13.400 --> 17:14.400]  Just got off the plane.
[17:14.400 --> 17:20.920]  I just want to say a couple of things, but you'll have to bear with me because I'm not
[17:20.920 --> 17:22.760]  a public speaker.
[17:22.760 --> 17:28.040]  And so for this reason, I've prepared a brief statement.
[17:28.040 --> 17:31.880]  Before I do that, I want to say that I've met the most beautiful and heartfelt people
[17:31.880 --> 17:39.280]  in Oklahoma City, people whose stories cry out to be told, and the sense of community
[17:39.280 --> 17:44.400]  and hospitality I've found here is beyond my ability to express.
[17:44.400 --> 17:49.200]  My name is Wendy Painting, and I'm currently an American Studies PhD student at the University
[17:49.200 --> 17:53.200]  of Buffalo State, New York.
[17:53.200 --> 17:58.640]  I began researching the Oklahoma City bombing during the time that I was pursuing my master's
[17:58.640 --> 17:59.640]  degree.
[17:59.640 --> 18:03.200]  During that time, my objective was to tell the story of the bombing that happened here
[18:03.200 --> 18:08.840]  so many years ago and seems to have been forgotten about by the larger public.
[18:08.840 --> 18:13.440]  Although to me and to the people here today and to the people most tragically affected
[18:13.440 --> 18:19.040]  by it, this horrific event remains significant within contemporary American history.
[18:19.040 --> 18:23.360]  Yet I found that the more I read about the bombing, the more questions I had.
[18:23.360 --> 18:27.400]  I began to pore through thousands of pages of documents that Timothy McVeigh's former
[18:27.400 --> 18:33.320]  attorney had made available to the public after his execution in 2001.
[18:33.320 --> 18:37.040]  These documents led to serious doubts about the version of the bombing, which was echoed
[18:37.040 --> 18:43.200]  by prosecutors, by the media, who themselves seem to digest and regurgitate the most simplistic
[18:43.200 --> 18:49.320]  asinine and impossible-to-believe theory, that of the troubled lone wolf mastermind,
[18:49.320 --> 18:54.840]  who had minimal help from two mentally infirm friends, but who delivered and executed the
[18:54.840 --> 18:55.840]  attack alone.
[18:55.840 --> 18:59.800]  The amount of evidence to the contrary is startling, as you will hear today.
[18:59.800 --> 19:03.960]  As you may know, Timothy McVeigh could never be placed at the Murrah Building on the morning
[19:03.960 --> 19:05.600]  of the bombing at his trial.
[19:05.600 --> 19:09.760]  That's not because he wasn't there, Timothy McVeigh undoubtedly and unfortunately was
[19:09.760 --> 19:10.760]  there.
[19:10.760 --> 19:16.400]  He was not placed at the scene because the overwhelming majority of eyewitnesses had
[19:16.400 --> 19:21.560]  seen McVeigh with others when he drove up to the Murrah Building that fateful morning
[19:21.560 --> 19:27.000]  armed with an explosively loaded rider truck with the intention of killing those beside
[19:27.000 --> 19:28.000]  of it.
[19:28.000 --> 19:33.960]  These same others were seen with McVeigh countless times prior to the bombing in Kansas, Oklahoma.
[19:33.960 --> 19:37.600]  Who were these others and what became of them?
[19:37.600 --> 19:41.720]  What were their roles in the bombing and why were they systematically ignored during investigations
[19:41.720 --> 19:42.720]  and trials?
[19:42.720 --> 19:48.000]  Yet you don't have to believe me when I tell you that this is only one of the many questions
[19:48.000 --> 19:51.880]  still plaguing the public memory and there's enough information available to come to those
[19:51.880 --> 19:54.440]  conclusions yourself.
[19:54.440 --> 19:57.600]  But it did come as quite a shock.
[19:57.600 --> 20:01.760]  There were still ongoing legal battles being waged by those who were irrevocably altered
[20:01.760 --> 20:02.760]  by the attack here.
[20:02.760 --> 20:07.880]  In their efforts, they have tried ceaselessly to obtain videotapes capturing the moments
[20:07.880 --> 20:11.920]  before the bombing which may begin to explain who the perpetrators were.
[20:11.920 --> 20:17.720]  It is heartbreaking to know that this evidence is being denied to them even to this day 15
[20:17.720 --> 20:22.440]  years later and begs the question further, what is there to hide?
[20:22.440 --> 20:28.120]  On the other hand, it is also uplifting and inspiring to know that there are those who
[20:28.120 --> 20:33.360]  have made a commitment to obtain this information despite fear of retribution, threats of retribution
[20:33.360 --> 20:34.880]  and actual retribution.
[20:34.880 --> 20:40.320]  As the case of Teriyaki, which you'll hear, shows, these types of questions can be mortally
[20:40.320 --> 20:41.320]  dangerous.
[20:41.320 --> 20:47.520]  One of the amazing people who has never stopped asking how or why this happened is Janie Coverdell
[20:47.520 --> 20:52.000]  who lost her two baby grandsons, Erin and Elijah, in the daycare center at the Murrah
[20:52.000 --> 20:53.000]  Building.
[20:53.000 --> 20:57.280]  Mrs. Coverdell attended the trials, as you heard, was told that her questions would be
[20:57.280 --> 21:04.920]  answered as the results of that were farcical and there remains holes in both the prosecution
[21:04.920 --> 21:08.040]  versions of events as well as Timothy McVeigh's public version.
[21:08.040 --> 21:14.680]  However, we have his private version which is now memorialized in the book Deadly Secrets.
[21:14.680 --> 21:20.400]  Since April 19th, 1995, Janie Coverdell, Beze Lawton and so many others have been demanding
[21:20.400 --> 21:24.680]  answers and information concerning the bombing that killed their coworkers, friends and loved
[21:24.680 --> 21:25.680]  ones.
[21:25.680 --> 21:30.680]  The resiliency of the human spirit is exemplified in the relationship that many of these survivors
[21:30.680 --> 21:35.520]  have formed or have begun to form with those who have pertinent material information about
[21:35.520 --> 21:40.200]  the funding, planning and execution of the bombing, but who sometimes have also a criminal
[21:40.200 --> 21:42.200]  culpability in it.
[21:42.200 --> 21:48.720]  As a result of these relationships, new information is surfacing which threatens to shed light
[21:48.720 --> 21:52.080]  on much of the darkness surrounding the case.
[21:52.080 --> 21:56.520]  As you will hear today, the efforts of Jesse Trentadou or the family of Terrence Yagy who
[21:56.520 --> 22:00.800]  are desperate to know why their loved ones were brutally murdered, but who have seemed
[22:00.800 --> 22:03.960]  to be stonewalled.
[22:03.960 --> 22:07.880]  On the other hand, there's the case of Peter Langen, former member of a band of neo-Nazi
[22:07.880 --> 22:13.580]  bank robbers who was thought by scholars and attorneys to have had a role in the bombing.
[22:13.580 --> 22:19.080]  After correspondence to victims' family members, Mr. Langen has chosen to make his legal documents
[22:19.080 --> 22:25.400]  available for review to the media and the Oklahoma City Bombing Investigation Committee.
[22:25.400 --> 22:31.880]  Actions of V. Z. Lawton, Janie Coverdale, Jesse Trentadou, the Yagy family signify a
[22:31.880 --> 22:37.080]  little known and virtually unexplored phenomena within American culture and politics.
[22:37.080 --> 22:42.880]  That of victims of terrorism must align themselves against monolithic state secrecy and who as
[22:42.880 --> 22:47.160]  a result of this are left to seek answers from perpetrators themselves or those close
[22:47.160 --> 22:48.160]  to them.
[22:48.160 --> 22:53.680]  I often wonder and am asked by others, why is vital information about the bombing being
[22:53.680 --> 22:58.440]  withheld from V. Z. and Janie, as well as the general public and students like myself
[22:58.440 --> 23:00.480]  of American history?
[23:00.480 --> 23:04.120]  Whatever the truth, I believe the American people are capable enough and smart enough
[23:04.120 --> 23:05.120]  to handle it.
[23:05.120 --> 23:10.880]  Students of history and the American public are asked to believe that this case is closed,
[23:10.880 --> 23:16.800]  but the actions, testimony and investigations of the people here today suggest otherwise.
[23:16.800 --> 23:26.920]  Thank you.
[23:26.920 --> 23:27.920]  Thank you, Wendy.
[23:27.920 --> 23:32.520]  For your identification, folks, we have a two-page handout here that's available at
[23:32.520 --> 23:33.520]  the media desk.
[23:33.520 --> 23:38.920]  Myself and my film crew put this together back on the 10-year anniversary and we were
[23:38.920 --> 23:43.800]  kind enough to, we're fortunate enough to have the Archdiocese of the Catholic Church
[23:43.800 --> 23:48.080]  of Oklahoma City give us the space at the Jesus statue on the west side of the memorial
[23:48.080 --> 23:49.080]  downtown.
[23:49.080 --> 23:53.760]  Coincidentally, the secretary that works in the church office there was actually a survivor
[23:53.760 --> 23:54.760]  of the bombing.
[23:54.760 --> 23:59.600]  She was severely injured and actually was very interested in the final report and the
[23:59.600 --> 24:03.120]  findings of the committee and James has, I believe, handed them out.
[24:03.120 --> 24:07.360]  Out of 2,400 handouts that we gave out within a three-month period, we did have street
[24:07.360 --> 24:09.360]  permanence.
[24:09.360 --> 24:13.320]  It was all above board and bona fide with the city of Oklahoma City.
[24:13.320 --> 24:16.960]  Only three people objected to what we were doing, so that clearly showed that we had
[24:16.960 --> 24:21.120]  almost 100% support, not only for our efforts, but the fact that they wanted the film to
[24:21.120 --> 24:22.120]  come out.
[24:22.120 --> 24:24.040]  So nothing has really changed.
[24:24.040 --> 24:28.640]  Just a couple of the names of the contacts of the people in Congress at the time to call
[24:28.640 --> 24:29.640]  for the investigation.
[24:29.640 --> 24:33.280]  So that's for your further knowledge that it'll give you a great summary of why we're
[24:33.280 --> 24:34.640]  still doing what we're doing.
[24:34.640 --> 24:39.280]  Our next speaker is Mr. Joe Cooley, who's actually, we ran into each other about four
[24:39.280 --> 24:40.280]  and a half years ago.
[24:40.280 --> 24:42.240]  You can correct me on that, Joe.
[24:42.240 --> 24:48.520]  He was working his due diligence on the Teriyaki case and the murder of a very fine police
[24:48.520 --> 24:49.520]  officer.
[24:49.520 --> 24:53.760]  Teriyaki, at the time of the bombing, was actually right before, minutes before the
[24:53.760 --> 25:00.640]  blast occurred, was issuing a traffic ticket adjacent to the city music hall, not too far
[25:00.640 --> 25:03.800]  from the OCPD headquarters.
[25:03.800 --> 25:08.400]  And the individual who was issuing the traffic ticket to said that he dropped his ticket
[25:08.400 --> 25:15.800]  book, jumped in his black and white squad car, all the way to the Murrah building.
[25:15.800 --> 25:18.000]  And it was there that he started pulling out survivors.
[25:18.000 --> 25:20.960]  He was the very first OCPD officer to arrive on the scene.
[25:20.960 --> 25:34.800]  So Mr. Joe Cooley will share his thoughts with us.
[25:34.800 --> 25:36.160]  Thank you very much, Chris.
[25:36.160 --> 25:38.560]  Can you all hear me?
[25:38.560 --> 25:43.920]  You all okay on the sound?
[25:43.920 --> 25:46.800]  All right.
[25:46.800 --> 25:47.800]  Just better?
[25:47.800 --> 25:48.800]  Okay.
[25:48.800 --> 25:57.880]  Before I talk about Teriyaki, I'd just like to make a few statements from a prepared statement
[25:57.880 --> 25:58.880]  about the news media.
[25:58.880 --> 26:06.120]  You know, newspapers such as the Daily Oklahoman, as well as the Oklahoma National Memorial
[26:06.120 --> 26:15.760]  and Museum just down the street here, along with legislators such as Lee Denny and Ross,
[26:15.760 --> 26:21.360]  would have you believe that the Oklahoma City bombing was a random act of domestic terrorism
[26:21.360 --> 26:28.840]  committed by two disgruntled military GIs using only an ammonium nitrate truck bomb
[26:28.840 --> 26:32.720]  parked in front of the AP Murrah federal building.
[26:32.720 --> 26:37.080]  That is, without doubt, a patent lie.
[26:37.080 --> 26:43.040]  These lies are refuted in what I consider to be the best source book for the bombing,
[26:43.040 --> 26:47.480]  and it's called The Final Report.
[26:47.480 --> 26:52.840]  This book was written by the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee, which is a nonprofit
[26:52.840 --> 27:00.480]  organization founded by private citizens of extraordinary stature.
[27:00.480 --> 27:04.600]  I've been honored to meet the founders of the bombing committee, men like legislator
[27:04.600 --> 27:12.000]  Charles Key of District 90, BZ Lawton, who's a bombing survivor, Dale Phillips, and George
[27:12.000 --> 27:13.680]  B. Wallace.
[27:13.680 --> 27:21.480]  I've come to appreciate their honesty for all of those who were affected by the bombing,
[27:21.480 --> 27:27.080]  and their undaunted and heroic commitment to the truth.
[27:27.080 --> 27:36.320]  Consequently, I'm very appalled and very disheartened by the misrepresentations that have been made
[27:36.320 --> 27:40.760]  about who they are and what they say.
[27:40.760 --> 27:45.560]  You know, when people like you and us get together, the mainstream media refers to us
[27:45.560 --> 27:54.840]  as conspiracy buffs, as if what we do is nothing more than a hobby, like stamp collecting or
[27:54.840 --> 27:58.960]  bird watching, something that we do just to pass the time away.
[27:58.960 --> 28:05.160]  They call us conspiracy nuts and refer to our findings as conspiracy theories, implying
[28:05.160 --> 28:09.780]  that our findings are not based on convincing evidence.
[28:09.780 --> 28:14.720]  My interest in this case resulted from an article I read about the death of Oklahoma
[28:14.720 --> 28:17.720]  City Police Officer Terrence Shakey.
[28:17.720 --> 28:25.360]  The article was written by Mr. Pat Shannon today, and I was horrified by what I read.
[28:25.360 --> 28:31.960]  I learned that a co-worker of mine was a former Oklahoma City police officer, and I asked
[28:31.960 --> 28:34.760]  him if he ever heard of Terrie Shakey.
[28:34.760 --> 28:40.920]  He said that he knew him well, as both graduated from the police academy in 1990.
[28:40.920 --> 28:47.760]  As a matter of fact, Terrie's closest friend, a man named Barry McCarrie, gave him a reference.
[28:47.760 --> 28:52.360]  My co-worker told me that Terrie graduated in the top percentage of his class, was a
[28:52.360 --> 28:58.440]  very intelligent man who had a reputation for honesty.
[28:58.440 --> 29:04.120]  I gave Pat Shannon's article to my co-worker, and he was very surprised because he didn't
[29:04.120 --> 29:07.120]  know that anything had been written about Terrie.
[29:07.120 --> 29:13.920]  He verified and acknowledged that everything that Pat Shannon said was accurate and truthful.
[29:13.920 --> 29:20.280]  I showed my co-worker a letter written by Terrie Shakey to his wife, and I'd like to
[29:20.280 --> 29:24.840]  quote from that letter.
[29:24.840 --> 29:30.160]  Knowing what I know now and understanding fully just what went down that morning makes
[29:30.160 --> 29:33.840]  me ashamed to wear a badge from Oklahoma City Police Department.
[29:33.840 --> 29:37.600]  I took an oath to uphold the law to the best of my ability.
[29:37.600 --> 29:43.200]  This is something I cannot currently do and hold my head up proud any longer if I keep
[29:43.200 --> 29:47.360]  my silence as I was ordered to do.
[29:47.360 --> 29:52.920]  My co-worker told me that this was vintage Terrie, his writing style, and his use of
[29:52.920 --> 29:53.920]  language.
[29:53.920 --> 30:01.920]  The letter continues, and I quote, Luke Franey, a BATF agent who claimed he was in the building,
[30:01.920 --> 30:04.920]  but was not in the building at the time of the blast.
[30:04.920 --> 30:06.600]  I know this for a fact.
[30:06.600 --> 30:08.600]  I saw him.
[30:08.600 --> 30:13.240]  I also saw full riot here with rifles in hand.
[30:13.240 --> 30:14.440]  Why?
[30:14.440 --> 30:20.440]  Don't make the mistake I did and ask the wrong people.
[30:20.440 --> 30:24.880]  My co-worker told me that Terrie's always carried a video and other cameras with him,
[30:24.880 --> 30:31.460]  and he would not be surprised if I can imprint any crime scene photos of undetonated devices
[30:31.460 --> 30:34.720]  inside the building.
[30:34.720 --> 30:38.920]  Terrie suffered long-job harassment when he continued his personal investigation into
[30:38.920 --> 30:41.240]  the bombing.
[30:41.240 --> 30:47.400]  His former wife said that they would receive death threats and their vehicles were vandalized.
[30:47.400 --> 30:51.760]  After he was separated from his wife, he tried to give his wife a life insurance policy.
[30:51.760 --> 30:59.000]  Of course, he knew that there was a suicide exclusion.
[30:59.000 --> 31:03.960]  Terrie's body was found on May 8, 1996, about a year after the bombing.
[31:03.960 --> 31:10.360]  Body was in a farm field about two and a half miles west of El Reno Penitentiary.
[31:10.360 --> 31:15.560]  It was listed as a suicide, but there are a lot of problems with the crime scene.
[31:15.560 --> 31:19.680]  First is that the vehicle had large amounts of blood, ostensibly due to numerous cuts
[31:19.680 --> 31:20.680]  and lacerations.
[31:20.680 --> 31:26.600]  How did the officer who had sickle cell anemia manage to crawl at least a mile before shooting
[31:26.600 --> 31:27.600]  himself?
[31:27.600 --> 31:33.320]  Remember, we're talking about very, very rough terrain.
[31:33.320 --> 31:35.800]  What about the rope burns around his neck?
[31:35.800 --> 31:37.640]  Was a rope discovered at the scene?
[31:37.640 --> 31:40.600]  Neither was mentioned in the reports that I've read.
[31:40.600 --> 31:47.400]  Also, the unusual angle of the wound, 45 degrees downward angle from right to left.
[31:47.400 --> 31:52.200]  The field report states that this was a contact wound, which always, and I mean always, has
[31:52.200 --> 31:56.280]  a skeleton or star-shaped pattern around the entry wound.
[31:56.280 --> 31:58.320]  None was listed.
[31:58.320 --> 32:02.080]  When the mother requested that a weapon be returned to her, she was told it would take
[32:02.080 --> 32:06.280]  three years.
[32:06.280 --> 32:09.840]  Then the police department simply never returned the weapon.
[32:09.840 --> 32:16.800]  I have submitted copies of the field reports to pathologists outside of the state of Oklahoma,
[32:16.800 --> 32:20.920]  and they've all stated that something is terribly wrong.
[32:20.920 --> 32:24.360]  The final problem, of course, is why no autopsy was done.
[32:24.360 --> 32:31.800]  All of the enemies I've talked to out of state find this to be unbelief and highly suspicious.
[32:31.800 --> 32:37.240]  In Terry's death, his family was put under surveillance and harassed by the authorities.
[32:37.240 --> 32:39.680]  I know the feeling.
[32:39.680 --> 32:45.520]  When I began to reach out and ask questions, I was also put under surveillance.
[32:45.520 --> 32:50.520]  My coworker, a former police officer, provided the names of two Oklahoma City police officers
[32:50.520 --> 32:55.120]  who he felt would probably know the whole truth about what happened to Terry.
[32:55.120 --> 33:00.280]  And when I tried to find them, I was horrified to learn that both had been killed in separate
[33:00.280 --> 33:02.920]  hit-and-run accidents.
[33:02.920 --> 33:06.900]  The crimes were never solved.
[33:06.900 --> 33:11.880]  My coworker and I also, on one occasion, interviewed one police officer who told us that Terry
[33:11.880 --> 33:18.320]  was murdered by federal agents, but that he was afraid to talk to us any further.
[33:18.320 --> 33:21.600]  We are continuing this investigation.
[33:21.600 --> 33:28.160]  I want all of you to know that from what I've heard, that Terry was a very kind man, a very
[33:28.160 --> 33:37.760]  loving family man, a man who loved children, a man who risked many lives from the ruins
[33:37.760 --> 33:38.760]  of the Murrah Building.
[33:38.760 --> 33:47.800]  And I want you to remember that Terry Wakey was the one who cared about you.
[33:47.800 --> 33:51.520]  I'd like to close with a quote from Martin Luther King, Jr.
[33:51.520 --> 33:57.760]  Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
[33:57.760 --> 33:58.760]  Thank you.
[33:58.760 --> 34:17.520]  I'm sure you folks would agree that it would take literally hours to go into all of these
[34:17.520 --> 34:20.720]  cases in depth, and we are very limited by time.
[34:20.720 --> 34:23.680]  We want to be courteous to the media staff here also.
[34:23.680 --> 34:27.360]  We know that you've got several appointments to go to, and then of course getting back
[34:27.360 --> 34:29.440]  to the stations to edit your work.
[34:29.440 --> 34:34.600]  So we are trying to just highlight why we're still doing what we're doing.
[34:34.600 --> 34:40.520]  And just a quick preface, I never had a dog in this hunt.
[34:40.520 --> 34:44.000]  I came this strictly from a filmmaker's point of view, living in Fort Worth at the time,
[34:44.000 --> 34:46.280]  actually in Austin, Texas.
[34:46.280 --> 34:51.400]  And when I looked at the raw footage that was shot, this is unedited footage that CNN
[34:51.400 --> 34:55.840]  and the flagship stations in New York and Chicago and L.A. didn't even want to touch.
[34:55.840 --> 34:58.880]  I looked at it and I said, my God, this case is completely upside down.
[34:58.880 --> 35:04.240]  So the case is, as Stephen Jones, the former attorney for McVeigh, once said, you know,
[35:04.240 --> 35:07.240]  I'm going to tell you what this case is and what it is not.
[35:07.240 --> 35:09.000]  And that's what we're trying to figure.
[35:09.000 --> 35:10.840]  We don't have any hidden political agenda.
[35:10.840 --> 35:11.840]  This isn't Republican.
[35:11.840 --> 35:12.840]  This isn't Democrat.
[35:12.840 --> 35:13.840]  This isn't libertarian.
[35:13.840 --> 35:15.200]  This is right and wrong.
[35:15.200 --> 35:17.000]  And that's what it all amounts to.
[35:17.000 --> 35:22.240]  So that's why we continue to do this even 15 years on.
[35:22.240 --> 35:24.920]  Our next speaker is a survivor of the city bombing.
[35:24.920 --> 35:28.080]  He was actually on the eighth floor when the blast occurred.
[35:28.080 --> 35:32.240]  Veazey is one of, and here's the key, folks, and a lot of you may not be aware of this.
[35:32.240 --> 35:37.800]  He was one of 14 survivors that we know of that either felt the building shake or were
[35:37.800 --> 35:40.720]  knocked unconscious before the truck bombing the detonated.
[35:40.720 --> 35:45.920]  I had a chance to meet with some members of the GSA office out of Fort Worth that actually
[35:45.920 --> 35:49.160]  designed and were subcontracted the building construction.
[35:49.160 --> 35:55.360]  And they told me that from what they saw and from the plans that they let me review, that
[35:55.360 --> 35:59.760]  and I can't name names, of course, because some of them are still employed, but they
[35:59.760 --> 36:04.920]  said that the building was coming down by controlled demolition from east to west.
[36:04.920 --> 36:09.960]  For those of you from the area, from Robinson Avenue to Harvey, the truck bomb detonated
[36:09.960 --> 36:16.800]  a full five to eight seconds, and we're talking about a five count to an eight count after
[36:16.800 --> 36:19.120]  the, that was before the truck bomb even detonated.
[36:19.120 --> 36:25.160]  So the Jack Oban, we have 13 ladies on the ninth floor, had enough wherewithal.
[36:25.160 --> 36:30.000]  They had the cognitive acumen to actually jump under their desks and take cover before
[36:30.000 --> 36:31.920]  the truck bomb even detonated.
[36:31.920 --> 36:36.040]  Clearly shows it was ordnance planted in the building and it was to come down in a very
[36:36.040 --> 36:37.040]  orderly structure.
[36:37.040 --> 36:40.880]  Thank goodness that the devices that were found on the west side, the unexploded devices
[36:40.880 --> 36:41.880]  did detonate.
[36:41.880 --> 36:50.320]  They were timed to go off 10 minutes after the first set to completely kill the walking
[36:50.320 --> 36:53.360]  wounded and the rescuers and the law enforcement.
[36:53.360 --> 36:54.360]  Thank God that didn't happen.
[36:54.360 --> 36:57.680]  So anyway, VZ is going to go ahead and share about eight minutes of his story.
[36:57.680 --> 37:02.680]  Let's welcome him to the podium.
[37:02.680 --> 37:13.720]  Thank you very much.
[37:13.720 --> 37:21.120]  It's after what happened April 19th in 95, it's good to be anywhere.
[37:21.120 --> 37:24.120]  And I'm just glad to be vertical.
[37:24.120 --> 37:30.000]  There's the 58 of my friends that aren't.
[37:30.000 --> 37:36.000]  We lost 35 people in the Murrah building that day from the Department of Housing and Urban
[37:36.000 --> 37:37.760]  Development that I worked for.
[37:37.760 --> 37:49.240]  Then we lost 18 from the Allegiance Credit Union, 18 beautiful young ladies that I still
[37:49.240 --> 37:58.360]  have a hard time walking by their pictures in the museum without shedding tears.
[37:58.360 --> 38:03.720]  The thing is, as I remember, I was sitting at my desk that morning signing some papers.
[38:03.720 --> 38:11.920]  I felt the building to begin to shake, lights went out, debris started falling on my desk
[38:11.920 --> 38:17.040]  and something hit me in the back of the head right here and knocked me out before the truck
[38:17.040 --> 38:18.040]  bomb ever went off.
[38:18.040 --> 38:20.520]  I never heard the truck bomb.
[38:20.520 --> 38:30.240]  So that reinforces what was just said, that the building was already coming down before
[38:30.240 --> 38:32.240]  the truck bomb went off.
[38:32.240 --> 38:36.440]  Now, what was bringing the building down?
[38:36.440 --> 38:44.640]  According to the Brigadier General of the Retired, Banton K. Parton's report, there
[38:44.640 --> 38:52.600]  were explosive devices that were wrapped around the columns in the building, out of the building,
[38:52.600 --> 38:57.200]  and that's what actually brought the building down.
[38:57.200 --> 39:05.960]  Now, there's a question that I'm sure everybody has, and that is, who wanted the building
[39:05.960 --> 39:08.680]  to be brought down?
[39:08.680 --> 39:17.040]  And there's more than probably one entity that was involved in wanting it brought down,
[39:17.040 --> 39:22.840]  and there's one that has never actually been tied to it, but most people don't know that
[39:22.840 --> 39:28.160]  the records from the Whitewater investigation in Arkansas were stored in the Murrah Building.
[39:28.160 --> 39:30.480]  Who was that about?
[39:30.480 --> 39:33.040]  That was about Bill and Hillary Clinton.
[39:33.040 --> 39:41.320]  Also, the records from the Waco debacle were stored in the Murrah Building, and there were
[39:41.320 --> 39:48.040]  probably some federal agencies, such as the ATF, that probably didn't want that evidence
[39:48.040 --> 39:55.040]  retained.
[39:55.040 --> 40:03.760]  Then there's the event when McVeigh filled the truck up there in front of the building.
[40:03.760 --> 40:05.600]  There was a John Doe II in the truck with him.
[40:05.600 --> 40:08.920]  He got out, walked to the rear, then back around the front, went across the street,
[40:08.920 --> 40:13.040]  got in a Brown Chevrolet pickup with two more John Doe IIs.
[40:13.040 --> 40:17.520]  That's three John Doe IIs that are still breathing free air.
[40:17.520 --> 40:23.280]  McVeigh got out of the driver's side of the truck, walked across the fifth street, got
[40:23.280 --> 40:26.440]  into the yellow Mercury with another John Doe II.
[40:26.440 --> 40:28.760]  That's four John Doe IIs.
[40:28.760 --> 40:32.080]  Four people still breathing free air.
[40:32.080 --> 40:38.600]  They got into the yellow Mercury, but those of you familiar with the location down there,
[40:38.600 --> 40:46.200]  they drove north to the east-west alley and drove east on the alley to Robinson Street,
[40:46.200 --> 40:50.520]  across Robinson Street, went across the north side of the YMCA, over to the north-south
[40:50.520 --> 40:58.640]  alley that is called Wall Street, and turned south, south across Wall Street.
[40:58.640 --> 41:01.640]  When I'm down to 4th Street and across 4th Street, filled up and stopped just before
[41:01.640 --> 41:10.200]  they went under the telephone company building there, got out and watched the building explode.
[41:10.200 --> 41:14.640]  They were still standing there when one of my co-workers, Jermaine Johnson, who got out
[41:14.640 --> 41:19.600]  of the building rather quickly, walked east on the fifth street sidewalk to the north-south
[41:19.600 --> 41:27.760]  alley called Wall Street, turned south on Wall Street, went across 4th Street, and was stopped
[41:27.760 --> 41:32.400]  by McVeigh as she walked up by him.
[41:32.400 --> 41:37.040]  He stopped her and asked her, said, were you in the building when it blew up?
[41:37.040 --> 41:38.040]  She said, yes, I was.
[41:38.040 --> 41:40.880]  He said, well, very many people killed.
[41:40.880 --> 41:44.280]  She said, well, I'm sure there were a lot of people killed.
[41:44.280 --> 41:45.280]  That was the end of it.
[41:45.280 --> 41:49.400]  She was trying to get to her husband who worked in the Kermagee building, just another hundred
[41:49.400 --> 41:52.160]  and fifty feet south of there.
[41:52.160 --> 41:58.240]  Well, McVeigh and the John Doe II then got in the Mercury, and I'm having to speculate
[41:58.240 --> 42:04.760]  a little on this, but ultimately it happened, and I think my speculation is correct.
[42:04.760 --> 42:09.880]  They drove north on Broadway to 23rd Street, east one block to Oklahoma, north on Oklahoma
[42:09.880 --> 42:15.520]  up into the warehouse district, and that's where McVeigh left the John Doe II out.
[42:15.520 --> 42:21.560]  The John Doe II got out of the car, went to the trunk to get some stuff out of the trunk.
[42:21.560 --> 42:26.840]  He also pulled a license plate off the car at that time, which makes you wonder whether
[42:26.840 --> 42:33.880]  he was a friend of McVeigh or a part-time employee of the FBI or some other federal
[42:33.880 --> 42:35.240]  agency.
[42:35.240 --> 42:40.520]  That license plate was later found underneath one of the semi-trailers that was parked up
[42:40.520 --> 42:45.600]  there, and the people called the FBI and asked them if they'd like to have that license plate.
[42:45.600 --> 42:51.640]  They said, oh yeah, we want it, and she gave them the information on how to get to her.
[42:51.640 --> 42:52.640]  She waited a week.
[42:52.640 --> 42:57.760]  They never showed up, so she called Channel 4.
[42:57.760 --> 43:05.640]  Channel 4 happened to have Jane Davis there handy, and Jane Davis talked to them.
[43:05.640 --> 43:08.240]  They told her what they had, and she said, well, I'll come get it.
[43:08.240 --> 43:11.240]  So Jane Davis went down and picked up the license plate, and it was the license plate
[43:11.240 --> 43:16.440]  that was off the truck, which was confirmed by people that had seen the license tag.
[43:16.440 --> 43:28.360]  So that's just another example of how hard our federal government employees, law enforcement
[43:28.360 --> 43:35.440]  people have tried to bring the truth into the open.
[43:35.440 --> 43:40.720]  And you've got to remember one thing, we cannot have justice without the truth, and we have
[43:40.720 --> 43:45.000]  not had the truth in the Oklahoma City bombing.
[43:45.000 --> 43:52.360]  There are so many instances, I've got eight minutes, and I don't think I can get very
[43:52.360 --> 43:58.840]  much out in eight minutes, but there are so many instances of, they just ignored important
[43:58.840 --> 44:08.320]  information, covered up other information, and as a member of the Obama Investigating
[44:08.320 --> 44:11.000]  Committee, I'm still pursuing the truth.
[44:11.000 --> 44:18.080]  We have a man in prison in Colorado right now that was working with the Middle Eastern
[44:18.080 --> 44:27.880]  group that probably were the ones that put the explosive devices in the building.
[44:27.880 --> 44:33.840]  He, I've visited with him a number of times, Poppy Heidelberg and I had him up here for
[44:33.840 --> 44:45.840]  a conference that we held in a motel conference room down in Moore, and this guy was working
[44:45.840 --> 44:51.120]  for the Middle Eastern terrorist group out of Las Vegas that had sent, they'd sent him
[44:51.120 --> 44:56.280]  down here to recon the building a couple of times, and he gave us a lot of information
[44:56.280 --> 44:58.400]  on what happened now.
[44:58.400 --> 45:05.080]  After the bombing, he started going public with his information, and all of a sudden,
[45:05.080 --> 45:12.880]  he gets arrested and charged with attempting to bribe sheriff's deputies over his wife's
[45:12.880 --> 45:16.800]  driver's license, and he gets 26 years in prison.
[45:16.800 --> 45:20.920]  Now that gets him off the street and away from the news media, which was what I'm sure
[45:20.920 --> 45:22.800]  their intentions were.
[45:22.800 --> 45:28.320]  I'm still working with him, I'm amazed that he's still alive, they've moved him, he's
[45:28.320 --> 45:33.040]  been in four different prisons, three in Colorado and one in Oklahoma out in Sayer, which I
[45:33.040 --> 45:38.520]  got to go out and visit with him there a couple of times, and I'm still working hard to get
[45:38.520 --> 45:46.760]  him out of prison, because he's got information that would just blow the government's case
[45:46.760 --> 45:47.760]  all to hell.
[45:47.760 --> 45:48.760]  How's my time?
[45:48.760 --> 46:01.960]  Well, okay, I'm going to finish up here.
[46:01.960 --> 46:07.760]  We're still, the Oklahoma Bombing Investigating Committee is still pursuing the truth, and
[46:07.760 --> 46:10.920]  we're going to keep pursuing it until my dying day.
[46:10.920 --> 46:19.360]  But for both my parents died at 94, I've only got 16 more years if I stay out of nine storey
[46:19.360 --> 46:20.360]  buildings.
[46:20.360 --> 46:31.360]  That's all I've got to say today.
[46:31.360 --> 46:32.360]  Thank you, VZ.
[46:32.360 --> 46:38.920]  Coincidentally, we have George Wallace, who's a member of the committee, and I guess they're
[46:38.920 --> 46:43.200]  running neck and neck on age here, and we want to thank George for all of his hard work
[46:43.200 --> 46:44.200]  too.
[46:44.200 --> 46:45.200]  He was not able to make it today.
[46:45.200 --> 46:46.200]  He had commitments out of town.
[46:46.200 --> 46:50.040]  I do want to introduce, and I was just one step out of order here, we're going to bring
[46:50.040 --> 46:57.080]  up Harmon Taylor, who was actually the attorney that filed litigation on behalf of VZ Lotton
[46:57.080 --> 47:00.760]  and Jane Graham to stay the execution of Tim McBey.
[47:00.760 --> 47:03.560]  Mr. Taylor is going to give us a quick summary, did he step out?
[47:03.560 --> 47:06.760]  Oh, here he is, okay, of that litigation.
[47:06.760 --> 47:12.720]  So let's welcome Mr. Harmon Taylor from Dallas, Texas, to the podium.
[47:12.720 --> 47:20.680]  Thank you, Chris, and thank you to everyone who's here, as is typically the case to document
[47:20.680 --> 47:22.520]  the change of the audience that's here.
[47:22.520 --> 47:27.440]  When we get to the legal side of this issue, the cameras leave.
[47:27.440 --> 47:30.520]  So thank you for the cameras that have remained.
[47:30.520 --> 47:37.040]  The contribution that I make to this entire study doesn't deal quite so much with the
[47:37.040 --> 47:41.520]  material facts that you hear about in the news reports and the radio reports and read
[47:41.520 --> 47:44.440]  about in the stories in the magazines.
[47:44.440 --> 47:50.280]  My focus is this, and this is more along the line of procedural facts.
[47:50.280 --> 47:55.300]  To go through this really briefly, we can start with this concept.
[47:55.300 --> 48:02.440]  To solve a problem, it really helps first to identify it correctly.
[48:02.440 --> 48:07.360]  We're dealing with a system that as so far, and we can go back to Pearl Harbor if we want
[48:07.360 --> 48:14.200]  to, committed homicide after homicide after homicide and has yet been brought to justice
[48:14.200 --> 48:16.520]  according to man's standards.
[48:16.520 --> 48:20.760]  How they deal and on will let God handle.
[48:20.760 --> 48:26.560]  So what we can do here, the question is, how does this system continue to murder people
[48:26.560 --> 48:27.880]  and get by with it?
[48:27.880 --> 48:30.560]  There's no question that this was an inside job.
[48:30.560 --> 48:36.280]  We can go through the physics of it and understand that a building that has all the debris outside
[48:36.280 --> 48:39.080]  was not blown in.
[48:39.080 --> 48:41.960]  The building was blown out.
[48:41.960 --> 48:49.960]  The devices that demolish this building were inside the building.
[48:49.960 --> 48:52.680]  So the rest of that and the rest of these facts, we can go on and on.
[48:52.680 --> 48:56.720]  The legal side of it gets even more interesting.
[48:56.720 --> 49:01.040]  That may be an occupational hazard, but it gets really interesting and it goes something
[49:01.040 --> 49:04.300]  like this.
[49:04.300 --> 49:12.220]  Article 3, section 2, Article 4, section 2, and the 6th Amendment all say essentially
[49:12.220 --> 49:14.140]  the same thing.
[49:14.140 --> 49:17.880]  There's one and only one state that has jurisdiction over crime.
[49:17.880 --> 49:24.960]  You hear about this thing called extradition, extradition, bringing the guy back.
[49:24.960 --> 49:25.960]  They did something.
[49:25.960 --> 49:31.240]  They ran away from the place that has the authority to try that offense and they bring
[49:31.240 --> 49:37.320]  him back to the place, the one place that has the authority to try that offense.
[49:37.320 --> 49:40.520]  What happened with these cases?
[49:40.520 --> 49:41.960]  What happened to them?
[49:41.960 --> 49:44.640]  They got exported.
[49:44.640 --> 49:46.720]  They weren't tried here in Oklahoma City.
[49:46.720 --> 49:49.840]  They weren't tried in Oklahoma County courts.
[49:49.840 --> 49:55.040]  They were tried in a federal court in a totally different state.
[49:55.040 --> 49:59.800]  These cases were transferred to Denver, Colorado.
[49:59.800 --> 50:05.840]  That defies everything about the language that we call the Constitution.
[50:05.840 --> 50:08.880]  It's not just wrong, it's defiant.
[50:08.880 --> 50:12.720]  And so we could stop there and say, oh, there's nothing that they can do.
[50:12.720 --> 50:17.040]  Well, the whole point about the litigation that I call the Terre Haute litigation was
[50:17.040 --> 50:20.460]  to point out some rather obvious problems.
[50:20.460 --> 50:26.360]  You can't export a criminal case.
[50:26.360 --> 50:29.840]  Another side of it has to do with the law that applies, and this gets even a little
[50:29.840 --> 50:33.560]  bit more interesting, and I'll go through it because it may or may not be interesting
[50:33.560 --> 50:36.640]  unless you're into these details of the law.
[50:36.640 --> 50:39.600]  There's two roles that Congress plays.
[50:39.600 --> 50:42.920]  One of them is as the author of Law of the United States.
[50:42.920 --> 50:47.640]  That's the Article 1 legislative power, and we learn about that in the civics class.
[50:47.640 --> 50:52.120]  Not quite so detailed is the other role that Congress plays, and that's effectively as
[50:52.120 --> 50:59.040]  a state legislature over what land, the land owned by that government system.
[50:59.040 --> 51:04.520]  As the state legislature, of course, they had the authority to defy and punish homicide,
[51:04.520 --> 51:11.200]  but that's as the state legislature in the secondary role, as the primary role of exercising
[51:11.200 --> 51:17.880]  legislative power to create law of the United States, guess what's not on that list?
[51:17.880 --> 51:24.300]  Homicide is nothing about homicide that belongs in the authority of Congress.
[51:24.300 --> 51:30.160]  So we have this question of why is this thing set all in the first place?
[51:30.160 --> 51:31.160]  Homicide's a state issue.
[51:31.160 --> 51:35.480]  And the next question is how come it's not in Oklahoma County?
[51:35.480 --> 51:39.040]  Why is it in a federal court in some foreign state?
[51:39.040 --> 51:43.480]  But we can look also at Article 3 and see that if we're dealing with the law of the
[51:43.480 --> 51:50.240]  United States, fine, an Article 3 jurist has authority to determine those cases, but homicide's
[51:50.240 --> 51:51.480]  not in Article 1.
[51:51.480 --> 51:54.160]  It's not a legislative power matter.
[51:54.160 --> 52:00.760]  If it exists out of that body that we call Congress, it comes from the state authority.
[52:00.760 --> 52:03.520]  In other words, it's law of the district.
[52:03.520 --> 52:04.520]  Guess what?
[52:04.520 --> 52:12.120]  Article 3, if that is the limit on what we call the federal court, what's this case doing
[52:12.120 --> 52:17.120]  there?
[52:17.120 --> 52:19.960]  The microphones are messing up here.
[52:19.960 --> 52:32.080]  We'll take a five-second break here, and hopefully the microphone survived the event.
[52:32.080 --> 52:35.080]  Yeah, time's up.
[52:35.080 --> 52:36.680]  We still good to go?
[52:36.680 --> 52:38.680]  Sorry about that.
[52:38.680 --> 52:41.520]  It slipped and I didn't catch it in time.
[52:41.520 --> 52:49.280]  The fundamental problem is Article 3 doesn't get into law of the district.
[52:49.280 --> 52:50.280]  It doesn't get there.
[52:50.280 --> 52:55.680]  Law of the United States, constitutional provisions, law of the United States, and treaties.
[52:55.680 --> 53:00.520]  Article 3 doesn't entertain cases that arise under the law of the district.
[53:00.520 --> 53:02.240]  So we're talking about homicide by Congress.
[53:02.240 --> 53:03.240]  We don't get there either.
[53:03.240 --> 53:07.080]  And we can't talk about law of the United States as being homicides.
[53:07.080 --> 53:09.480]  We've got a lot of procedural questions.
[53:09.480 --> 53:15.920]  We've got a lot of jurisdictional problems with this case if our presumption is that
[53:15.920 --> 53:18.760]  we start with the Constitution.
[53:18.760 --> 53:20.080]  So we file the lawsuit.
[53:20.080 --> 53:22.480]  The objective of the lawsuit is to preserve evidence.
[53:22.480 --> 53:23.480]  What lawsuit?
[53:23.480 --> 53:24.480]  The Terre Haute litigation.
[53:24.480 --> 53:36.680]  To find the materials for the Terre Haute litigation, there's a website, www.APFN.org.
[53:36.680 --> 53:37.680]  It's Ken and Joan Barton.
[53:37.680 --> 53:43.360]  They do a wonderful job with keeping all kinds of information publicly available, and they've
[53:43.360 --> 53:53.280]  kept this material out there, APFN.org forward slash APFN forward slash OKC underscore coverup
[53:53.280 --> 53:54.280]  dot HTM.
[53:54.280 --> 53:58.080]  And all the materials for the Terre Haute litigation can be found there.
[53:58.080 --> 54:04.840]  Search for Taylor, T-A-Y-L-O-R, and you'll go right to the top of those PDF file links
[54:04.840 --> 54:07.440]  to understand what the appellate court told us.
[54:07.440 --> 54:12.240]  It really helps to understand what we argued in the trial court.
[54:12.240 --> 54:17.000]  We got dismissed out of the trial court, and we went to the Seventh Circuit.
[54:17.000 --> 54:18.760]  What was the point of the litigation?
[54:18.760 --> 54:21.760]  To preserve evidence.
[54:21.760 --> 54:24.560]  Critical evidence in this case was Timothy McVeigh himself.
[54:24.560 --> 54:28.240]  What we thought at the time was that there was other civil litigation going on.
[54:28.240 --> 54:29.240]  It turns out there wasn't.
[54:29.240 --> 54:33.840]  There were people that came in to say they were going to represent the survivors, and
[54:33.840 --> 54:39.240]  all they did was stall long enough for the stations to run, and then they stalled long
[54:39.240 --> 54:45.080]  enough again to allow the professional responsibility problems to expire.
[54:45.080 --> 54:50.360]  And so no case, no real way to do the professional responsibility matter.
[54:50.360 --> 54:56.240]  So what we thought we were preserving evidence for didn't really end up existing.
[54:56.240 --> 54:59.400]  But to preserve evidence, we needed Timothy McVeigh.
[54:59.400 --> 55:00.400]  So what are we doing?
[55:00.400 --> 55:03.240]  We're trying to stop the execution.
[55:03.240 --> 55:09.680]  Ashcroft gave a 30-day stay that kept the focus in Denver, the litigation was filed
[55:09.680 --> 55:14.400]  in Terre Haute, Indiana, where McVeigh was on death row.
[55:14.400 --> 55:19.000]  The case argued constitution.
[55:19.000 --> 55:23.560]  It says pure constitutional cases exist in the history of this nation, dismissed.
[55:23.560 --> 55:28.280]  Of course, this court has jurisdiction, what are you talking about?
[55:28.280 --> 55:35.960]  We go up on appeal, the Seventh Circuit handled the case that weekend, they got right on it.
[55:35.960 --> 55:41.440]  And they agreed with us on a couple of really critical issues, one of which was standing.
[55:41.440 --> 55:45.280]  Can a survivor of the bombing ask for preservation of evidence?
[55:45.280 --> 55:46.280]  Yes.
[55:46.280 --> 55:48.000]  That was the padding.
[55:48.000 --> 55:52.280]  Inside that padding is the two-by-four, and here's the two-by-four.
[55:52.280 --> 55:53.280]  You can read it, it's out there.
[55:53.280 --> 55:58.320]  It's about a two-and-a-half or three-page opinion, but they describe the trial litigation
[55:58.320 --> 56:03.520]  this way, frivolous, without merit.
[56:03.520 --> 56:04.520]  There's another one.
[56:04.520 --> 56:16.000]  You get to the legal stuff and they just run away, frivolous, without merit, of no authority
[56:16.000 --> 56:17.000]  and ludicrous.
[56:17.000 --> 56:18.720]  What were we arguing?
[56:18.720 --> 56:25.560]  Article Three, Section Two, Article Four, Section Two, and the Sixth Amendment, frivolous,
[56:25.560 --> 56:33.120]  without merit, of no authority and ludicrous.
[56:33.120 --> 56:39.280]  So the story on the legal side of this case actually just starts there, because as we
[56:39.280 --> 56:45.800]  get our mind around how it is that they argue that, have the system wrong, we start to understand
[56:45.800 --> 56:49.960]  some things about this system that murders its own people and gets by with it time after
[56:49.960 --> 56:50.960]  time after time.
[56:50.960 --> 56:54.360]  It's another system that we've been taught that it is.
[56:54.360 --> 56:56.920]  This was a real kick in the head to me.
[56:56.920 --> 56:59.080]  It took me two months to get through this opinion.
[56:59.080 --> 57:03.720]  I was just in shock over it, but the lesson was very clear.
[57:03.720 --> 57:08.280]  The judicial lesson to me was, your premise is wrong.
[57:08.280 --> 57:13.600]  You are still a constitutionist, and therefore you don't understand what's happening yet.
[57:13.600 --> 57:18.800]  What I've been doing ever since was helping my fellow constitutionists go through a very
[57:18.800 --> 57:24.680]  wicked paradigm shift to understanding that that is not the basis for this system.
[57:24.680 --> 57:28.280]  The value for learning that is very simple.
[57:28.280 --> 57:34.200]  Once we understand the game that we're playing, then we can play it a lot more successfully.
[57:34.200 --> 57:38.240]  So I continue to teach the Terre Haute litigation, there's a lot of details on it.
[57:38.240 --> 57:47.000]  I continue to raise these issues to get through this threshold barrier of, is it that makes
[57:47.000 --> 57:48.880]  this system tick?
[57:48.880 --> 57:56.520]  And the threshold is not the constitution, it's not the document that we call the constitution,
[57:56.520 --> 58:00.040]  it's a very different set of principles, the commercial principles.
[58:00.040 --> 58:05.880]  And I'll leave you with that because we need to get on with the rest of this, but fundamentally
[58:05.880 --> 58:12.160]  the Terre Haute litigation helped me understand how, not just how they did the jurisdictional,
[58:12.160 --> 58:19.440]  that's the legal questions, but how they make this system work generally, it's a very self-consistent
[58:19.440 --> 58:23.160]  picture when we understand what those principles are.
[58:23.160 --> 58:30.160]  And I'll just end by saying this, someone with the media very well understands the concepts
[58:30.160 --> 58:35.160]  that I teach, and they really don't want anybody else learning them.
[58:35.160 --> 58:41.040]  This is why when I get up here, they go away, so it's an honor and it's a privilege to
[58:41.040 --> 58:46.520]  get to work with these people, it is terrific, it's straight out of Scripture, they're going
[58:46.520 --> 58:53.800]  to approach by one, and run away by seven, well there they went, and as we, this is fifteen
[58:53.800 --> 58:59.520]  years into this, and it gives me hope every time this happens because some of them are
[58:59.520 --> 59:03.640]  beginning to get it, and it's extremely uncomfortable.
[59:03.640 --> 59:07.640]  And so I hope you're not necessarily uncomfortable with all of this, but if you are it's okay,
[59:07.640 --> 59:10.440]  I'm here to tell you it's survivable.
[59:10.440 --> 59:15.120]  And as we get in mind what we're dealing with, and as we identify correctly the problem,
[59:15.120 --> 59:19.760]  I guarantee you there's solutions out there, they're not full back up the middle, they're
[59:19.760 --> 59:26.920]  flea flicker, double in reverse, half back pass to the quarterback who laterals twenty
[59:26.920 --> 59:32.160]  yards down the field kind of play, but there are solutions to this, so that's the message
[59:32.160 --> 59:37.480]  of hope in all of this, as we learn the law, we understand this system.
[59:37.480 --> 59:42.400]  And as we continue to talk about this particular set of murders, it is one of our goals that
[59:42.400 --> 59:44.560]  they don't do this anymore.
[59:44.560 --> 59:50.400]  We didn't prevent S-11, we may not prevent the next one, but there's hope that maybe
[59:50.400 --> 59:53.480]  we're some of them down.
[59:53.480 --> 01:00:13.080]  Thanks very much for being here, you're a terrific group.
[01:00:13.080 --> 01:00:20.040]  Okay our next speaker, a former member of the federal grand jury that was impaneled
[01:00:20.040 --> 01:00:26.360]  about four months before the bombing occurred, so Hoppe had no idea, just like all of us
[01:00:26.360 --> 01:00:30.600]  had no idea this event was going to happen, but the first time I met Hoppe was shortly
[01:00:30.600 --> 01:00:34.760]  after I moved to Oklahoma City to start continuing my research on the film.
[01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:39.400]  We had I think met for the better part of three hours at his ranch south of Oklahoma
[01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:45.240]  City, and I was very humbled to hear the words come out of his mouth and what he had gone
[01:00:45.240 --> 01:00:46.240]  through.
[01:00:46.240 --> 01:00:50.000]  I read several articles on the internet prior to my visit, so he's got quite a story to
[01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.000]  tell.
[01:00:51.000 --> 01:01:06.960]  Well Hoppe Hurtleberg, we welcome you to the podium.
[01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:21.280]  Before I start, I want to recommend to all of you what Harmon was just talking about.
[01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:26.400]  I get at least two emails a day from Harmon explaining what he was trying to tell you.
[01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:31.000]  I've been two years trying to get around what he's talking about.
[01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:39.520]  It's complicated, but he's on to something, and from what I gather and from what I witness,
[01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:45.160]  this country no longer operates according to the U.S. Constitution.
[01:01:45.160 --> 01:01:48.640]  I don't yet know what system they operate on.
[01:01:48.640 --> 01:01:50.400]  Harmon calls it the commercial system.
[01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:54.000]  I'm still trying to figure out what he's talking about, but I'm going to stay with him until
[01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:58.680]  I get it figured out, but this guy's on to something.
[01:01:58.680 --> 01:02:02.880]  He got on it the hard way, he got his head knocked off, and that's why he began to study
[01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:03.880]  it.
[01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:04.880]  But this is very important.
[01:02:04.880 --> 01:02:10.000]  If I ever get it figured out, I'll explain it to you too.
[01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:13.000]  I've really got to thank Judge Russell.
[01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:17.400]  He did myself and all of us a huge favor.
[01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:22.520]  If he had not fired me, my identity would have never been known.
[01:02:22.520 --> 01:02:27.440]  I would have never become a problem for the authorities.
[01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:29.840]  And so he did us a big favor.
[01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:35.560]  It wasn't the smartest thing he's ever done, and I'm going to guess it was not his decision
[01:02:35.560 --> 01:02:40.280]  because it took him, I think, three weeks, the date between the letter I wrote him and
[01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:43.760]  the date of his letters, like three weeks, something like that.
[01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:48.800]  You can imagine there were a lot of conversations between him and Washington, D.C. during that
[01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:54.000]  three-week period for them to try and decide what to do.
[01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.240]  And they should have just let it go.
[01:02:56.240 --> 01:03:03.160]  I would have not had any platform, any standing, nobody had known who I was.
[01:03:03.160 --> 01:03:06.760]  Nobody would have known what did or did not happen in the grand jury room, because that's
[01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:12.800]  pretty important, because we were charged, the purpose of that grand jury, supposedly,
[01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:15.520]  was to investigate the bombing.
[01:03:15.520 --> 01:03:18.540]  That's a pretty important charge.
[01:03:18.540 --> 01:03:23.680]  And I was looking forward to it because they gave me this little handbook that explained
[01:03:23.680 --> 01:03:28.880]  my rights and duties and responsibilities, and I studied it, I highlighted it and underlighted
[01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:31.400]  it, and I was ready.
[01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:36.360]  What happened in that grand jury room was something completely foreign to what was supposed
[01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:37.560]  to happen.
[01:03:37.560 --> 01:03:42.400]  We were not allowed to do any investigation whatsoever.
[01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:46.600]  We were certainly entitled to those tapes that you keep hearing about.
[01:03:46.600 --> 01:03:51.120]  They confiscated all of the tapes from the cameras on all the buildings around the Murrah
[01:03:51.120 --> 01:03:52.120]  building.
[01:03:52.120 --> 01:03:56.160]  The grand jury was certainly entitled to see those tapes.
[01:03:56.160 --> 01:04:00.000]  We would have liked to have gotten out of that truck.
[01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:01.960]  If there was a truck, who got out of the truck?
[01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:05.800]  There were a lot of things that were not allowed to anything.
[01:04:05.800 --> 01:04:12.680]  We were not allowed to call one witness, and we're supposed to call all the witnesses.
[01:04:12.680 --> 01:04:16.440]  We're the only ones with the authority to call the witnesses.
[01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:22.000]  But the Department of Justice simply ignored us, used our authority to call their own witnesses
[01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:28.040]  so they could put on a dog and pony show, because they didn't bring not one witness
[01:04:28.040 --> 01:04:31.440]  in there that knew anything about the bombing.
[01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:35.520]  They'd bring a guy in there and say, yeah, I saw Tim McVeigh at a gun show in Ohio.
[01:04:35.520 --> 01:04:36.520]  Really?
[01:04:36.520 --> 01:04:40.680]  What's that got to do with the bombing?
[01:04:40.680 --> 01:04:43.080]  And that was the type of testimony that we heard.
[01:04:43.080 --> 01:04:44.560]  It was mostly just nonsense.
[01:04:44.560 --> 01:04:48.520]  Even if it's all true, it didn't mean anything.
[01:04:48.520 --> 01:04:55.360]  There was no evidence that Tim McVeigh wasn't in Oklahoma City that day.
[01:04:55.360 --> 01:05:00.880]  There were some eyewitnesses that I think they can identify, and there were also eyewitnesses
[01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:07.840]  that said he came into the Murrah Building, I think like a week prior to that, looking
[01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:09.480]  for a job or something silly like that.
[01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:13.960]  Sounds like what Lee Harvey Oswald did, going to the gun range and going to the Mexican
[01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:15.880]  consulate and all that.
[01:05:15.880 --> 01:05:21.080]  It was designed to set him up, because he'd give everybody his name as he went around
[01:05:21.080 --> 01:05:23.480]  the building.
[01:05:23.480 --> 01:05:27.520]  So I can't tell you, I served on the grand jury, and I can't tell you whether he was
[01:05:27.520 --> 01:05:29.480]  in town that day or not.
[01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:31.680]  I know there were three writer trucks involved.
[01:05:31.680 --> 01:05:35.440]  I can't tell you which one was parked in front of the Murrah Building or if there was one
[01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:40.840]  parked in the Murrah Building, because the tapes, it would have proven that the grand
[01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:43.960]  jury is never allowed to see.
[01:05:43.960 --> 01:05:53.840]  So if I had doubts or questions prior to the grand jury, I really had them after my experience,
[01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:59.680]  because there was no question that whether any of the Gumba story was true or not didn't
[01:05:59.680 --> 01:06:01.020]  matter at that point.
[01:06:01.020 --> 01:06:06.820]  It was obvious to me that we were never going to find out that this wasn't going to mean
[01:06:06.820 --> 01:06:09.080]  any different than the Kennedy assassination.
[01:06:09.080 --> 01:06:13.000]  How many years are we from the Kennedy assassination?
[01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:17.400]  So everything's kept secret, everything's locked up, there's no evidence released.
[01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:20.440]  And so this is going to be the same thing.
[01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:26.600]  And actually, I think I've quit talking about the Murrah Building bombing because 9-11 is
[01:06:26.600 --> 01:06:31.320]  a whole lot easier to unravel, and the American people are a little smarter.
[01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:37.960]  They're better able to grasp what probably happened in New York City than they are what
[01:06:37.960 --> 01:06:39.840]  happened here.
[01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:47.400]  And so for years after 95, I traveled the country speaking, and I addressed the Harvard
[01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:57.240]  Law in Boston, groups in Florida, Orange County, California, big group there, the state convention,
[01:06:57.240 --> 01:06:59.920]  the Libertarian State Convention in Santa Barbara.
[01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:06.960]  I crisscrossed the country for about two years speaking and did more radio shows than I can
[01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.640]  remember it all.
[01:07:08.640 --> 01:07:15.720]  And I finally concluded that, and this is to admit, and I hate to admit this, but I
[01:07:15.720 --> 01:07:19.440]  finally concluded the American people don't deserve to know the truth.
[01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:21.320]  They don't care enough.
[01:07:21.320 --> 01:07:25.280]  They don't ask questions, they believe everything the government tells them, and I said, I'm
[01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:26.280]  through.
[01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:27.280]  I'm just through.
[01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:31.280]  They don't care, they don't deserve to know, bye bye.
[01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:37.120]  And then 9-11 happened, they kind of reopened the can of worms, so to speak.
[01:07:37.120 --> 01:07:44.800]  But I guess, as Chris can tell you, I have to be invited to go anywhere now, I pretty
[01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:52.920]  much quit trying, but I guess you can never truly quit, but I appreciate y'all coming
[01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:58.800]  and I appreciate y'all listening, and I hope there's something we can do.
[01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:02.840]  The only thing we can do, they keep calling for congressional investigation and all that,
[01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:05.080]  that's going to be a total waste of time.
[01:08:05.080 --> 01:08:08.280]  The only thing that can be done is the states.
[01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:13.560]  The state of Oklahoma has the right and the authority to investigate the bombing.
[01:08:13.560 --> 01:08:20.440]  The state of New York has the authority to investigate the World Trade Center bombing.
[01:08:20.440 --> 01:08:23.100]  They can do that if they want to.
[01:08:23.100 --> 01:08:30.360]  The problem is, we have never had a governor of either state with any courage.
[01:08:30.360 --> 01:08:35.440]  But if the states want to investigate these things, they have the right and the authority
[01:08:35.440 --> 01:08:37.680]  and they can make a lot of noise.
[01:08:37.680 --> 01:08:43.040]  They could bring Washington down, just these two states, by investigating these two bombings.
[01:08:43.040 --> 01:08:44.980]  They could bring Washington to its knees.
[01:08:44.980 --> 01:08:50.120]  So this state sovereignty issue that's going around, and we've passed some bills here in
[01:08:50.120 --> 01:08:56.520]  Oklahoma declaring state sovereignty, until we get a governor that will stand up and enforce
[01:08:56.520 --> 01:09:01.040]  that state sovereignty, it won't make any difference, but we really need a governor
[01:09:01.040 --> 01:09:06.960]  with some macho that will tell the federal government, you can't do anything in this
[01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:09.800]  state without my permission.
[01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:14.880]  The truth is, the federal government and all its agencies, they cannot come into Oklahoma
[01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:19.840]  and arrest one Oklahoma citizen without the governor's.
[01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:23.960]  They can't go into the county, like I live in McLean County, you can't go into McLean
[01:09:23.960 --> 01:09:29.200]  County and arrest one citizen of McLean County without the county sheriff's permission.
[01:09:29.200 --> 01:09:33.680]  And these county sheriffs and these governors need to start enforcing their authority.
[01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:36.600]  If they would, we could turn this whole thing around.
[01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:41.680]  So if any of you are familiar with the governor or the county sheriff, you need to discuss
[01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:45.320]  with them what their authority really is and what their obligations are, because they're
[01:09:45.320 --> 01:09:50.000]  supposed to protect us, their job is to protect us here in Oklahoma.
[01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:51.840]  And they're not doing it.
[01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:54.080]  And we need to put pressure on them to get them to do it.
[01:09:54.080 --> 01:09:55.080]  Thank you.
[01:09:55.080 --> 01:09:56.080]  Thank you.
[01:09:56.080 --> 01:10:09.760]  I see the audience is thinning in just a little bit, but we still have members of the press
[01:10:09.760 --> 01:10:10.760]  here.
[01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:13.960]  I want to acknowledge the gentleman from the LA Times and of course, the prominent writer
[01:10:13.960 --> 01:10:17.120]  that's been following this case for many years from the Oklahoman.
[01:10:17.120 --> 01:10:20.840]  We thank you for staying with us and through the end here.
[01:10:20.840 --> 01:10:25.560]  By the way, before I introduce our last speaker, and we are going to take Q&A, so we certainly
[01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:26.560]  are open for that.
[01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:30.720]  I have in my hands, ladies and gentlemen, here an affidavit, and I'm not going to name
[01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:37.200]  the name of a former EMSA employee who actually worked for the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Department
[01:10:37.200 --> 01:10:39.200]  for seven years.
[01:10:39.200 --> 01:10:44.840]  This affidavit clearly states that he witnessed both ATF and FBI agents speeding.
[01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:53.640]  Matter of fact, clear as day that there was residue from C4 on the support columns inside
[01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:54.640]  the Murr Building.
[01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:55.640]  These are professionals.
[01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:56.640]  They show up every day.
[01:10:56.640 --> 01:10:57.640]  They punch the clock.
[01:10:57.640 --> 01:10:58.640]  They got the sidearm in their badge.
[01:10:58.640 --> 01:10:59.640]  They put on their belt.
[01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:02.200]  They know what they're talking about.
[01:11:02.200 --> 01:11:03.200]  This isn't hearsay.
[01:11:03.200 --> 01:11:04.200]  It's not conjecture.
[01:11:04.200 --> 01:11:05.200]  It's not rumor.
[01:11:05.200 --> 01:11:09.040]  There are certain individuals that are connected with the bonding committee and myself and
[01:11:09.040 --> 01:11:11.880]  two others that sat down in the living room with this gentleman for the better part of
[01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:13.440]  three hours.
[01:11:13.440 --> 01:11:18.000]  He held it inside him for close to seven years, went through substance abuse for over two
[01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:21.760]  and a half years because he did not know what to do with this information.
[01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:27.560]  He knew he was being bold-faced, lied to about what happened in the bombing, and he was there
[01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:32.840]  witnessing what was going on, pulling out the remains of the victims and a few of the
[01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:33.840]  survivors.
[01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:39.360]  So here we are almost 15 years on, and we still are having this information come out.
[01:11:39.360 --> 01:11:43.420]  For anybody that says we're wasting our time, you have to reevaluate this case.
[01:11:43.420 --> 01:11:46.880]  You've got to sit up straight and pay attention, and you have to come to terms with your conscience
[01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:47.880]  in your heart.
[01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:48.880]  And you say, you know what?
[01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:49.880]  You've been lied to.
[01:11:49.880 --> 01:11:50.880]  You've been played as a fool.
[01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:53.880]  You've been duped, and it's about time that you get in with the group that is still trying
[01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:54.880]  to find the truth.
[01:11:54.880 --> 01:12:01.040]  I want to introduce our last guest, Pat Shannon, associate editor with American Free Press,
[01:12:01.040 --> 01:12:02.720]  known Pat for several years.
[01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:07.320]  He has quite a story to share and is going to offer some friendly reminders to some of
[01:12:07.320 --> 01:12:09.320]  our media on why we're doing what we're doing.
[01:12:09.320 --> 01:12:12.320]  Let's welcome Pat Shannon to the podium.
[01:12:12.320 --> 01:12:18.360]  Thank you.
[01:12:18.360 --> 01:12:19.360]  Good afternoon.
[01:12:19.360 --> 01:12:31.640]  I'd like to thank the state of Oklahoma for all the fine acoustics in this meeting room.
[01:12:31.640 --> 01:12:33.120]  Somebody said, how come you're not wearing a tie?
[01:12:33.120 --> 01:12:36.080]  And I said, because I don't want anybody to think I'm a politician while I'm over here
[01:12:36.080 --> 01:12:38.080]  at the Capitol building.
[01:12:38.080 --> 01:12:43.880]  Yes, indeed, I didn't really even think about it until Chris invited me over here a few
[01:12:43.880 --> 01:12:44.880]  weeks ago.
[01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:49.560]  I said, I don't have anything new to add to the bombing investigation.
[01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:53.240]  We did that 15 years ago, and we did a two-hour documentary on the subject.
[01:12:53.240 --> 01:13:00.160]  And he said, there's plenty of new information out with Jesse Trinadue's Freedom of Information
[01:13:00.160 --> 01:13:01.400]  Act and all this other stuff.
[01:13:01.400 --> 01:13:06.820]  He said, you worked on the story longer than any other newsman, and you still are working
[01:13:06.820 --> 01:13:07.820]  on it.
[01:13:07.820 --> 01:13:09.560]  And I guess that's true.
[01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:15.140]  We have done probably a half a dozen articles in the last year concerning the Oklahoma City
[01:13:15.140 --> 01:13:20.880]  cover-up by the Federal Bureau of Intimidation.
[01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:23.840]  It really is what they do a lot more than investigate.
[01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:32.400]  They go by and intimidate witnesses and intimidate them into not testifying or testify.
[01:13:32.400 --> 01:13:40.720]  But as I think back over my investigative history, even back with stuff that I was too
[01:13:40.720 --> 01:13:46.100]  young to investigate, such as Pearl Harbor, we begin to realize that when you study your
[01:13:46.100 --> 01:13:51.080]  history that almost every official story was a lie.
[01:13:51.080 --> 01:13:57.600]  And Pearl Harbor, of course, I mean, hey, on Saturday, December the 6th, 1941, the Americans
[01:13:57.600 --> 01:14:03.920]  were in such an isolationist mood that nobody, 80% were isolationists and had no idea about
[01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:04.920]  ever going to war.
[01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:10.480]  By Monday morning, December the 8th, they were running, not walking, to the draft force
[01:14:10.480 --> 01:14:14.160]  to sign up, let's go get those guys that killed our brothers.
[01:14:14.160 --> 01:14:23.960]  And that's how a federal government with inside instigation can motivate things to get things
[01:14:23.960 --> 01:14:24.960]  done.
[01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:29.560]  In other books written, I don't know, over the next decade or so, everything was gung
[01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:33.080]  ho, yay, the boys came home in 45 and we won the war.
[01:14:33.080 --> 01:14:38.720]  But now we're learning how the whole thing was a setup, and Roosevelt and his staff knew
[01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:41.080]  it and many others beforehand.
[01:14:41.080 --> 01:14:46.520]  The Kennedy assassination, two weeks ago today, the Justice Department finally, after 40,
[01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:54.160]  nearly seven years, said, yes, we agree that the JFK assassination was a conspiracy, but
[01:14:54.160 --> 01:14:57.680]  the case is closed, and they slammed the books.
[01:14:57.680 --> 01:14:59.040]  It came out on April the 1st.
[01:14:59.040 --> 01:15:03.240]  I thought it was a satire, I thought it was an April Fool's Day thing, until I began to
[01:15:03.240 --> 01:15:08.480]  receive it from several other people and look it up, and sure enough, it was a true story.
[01:15:08.480 --> 01:15:12.920]  And those of us who've been working on that case, as long as I have, which is really from
[01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:19.960]  a few months after it happened, as an amateur sleuth, of course, we knew very well that
[01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:21.100]  the thing was a conspiracy.
[01:15:21.100 --> 01:15:28.400]  We knew that by 1964, when the Warranty Commission report came out in the giant cover-up.
[01:15:28.400 --> 01:15:34.260]  But everything is a cover-up in the government's favor, you know, Sir Hans Sir Han is serving
[01:15:34.260 --> 01:15:37.920]  life for murdering Senator Bob.
[01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:42.440]  But how many Americans know that not one bullet from the eight shot Iver Johnson 22 revolver
[01:15:42.440 --> 01:15:46.680]  that he fired that night and emptied, not one of them hit Bobby Kennedy.
[01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:51.880]  Bobby Kennedy had two powder burns and two shells behind his ear.
[01:15:51.880 --> 01:15:56.360]  And Thomas Noguchi, the enemy in Los Angeles, said that the gun had to be within from one
[01:15:56.360 --> 01:16:00.440]  to three inches to make those powder burns.
[01:16:00.440 --> 01:16:04.080]  Martin Luther King, they framed during drill right for that one, and that's one that I
[01:16:04.080 --> 01:16:06.280]  can spend hours on.
[01:16:06.280 --> 01:16:09.160]  George Wallace is one of my favorite cases.
[01:16:09.160 --> 01:16:13.280]  The attempted murder of him was on May the 15th, 1972.
[01:16:13.280 --> 01:16:22.040]  If you'll pull up the New York Times archives and look at the microfiche on May the 16th,
[01:16:22.040 --> 01:16:27.400]  the next day, you'll see that George Wallace was shot by Arthur Bremer four times.
[01:16:27.400 --> 01:16:32.240]  First he said five, but then they settled on four.
[01:16:32.240 --> 01:16:38.000]  Bremer had a Model 37, a lightweight air weight they called it, a Smith & Wesson snub-nosed
[01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:43.000]  revolver, a little deep trace, it held five shots.
[01:16:43.000 --> 01:16:47.880]  Well, they confessed that Wallace took four of them.
[01:16:47.880 --> 01:16:54.120]  And we got Wallace's personal bodyguard, a 40-year-old Alabama state trooper captain,
[01:16:54.120 --> 01:16:59.440]  was hit in the throat, no, he was hit in the abdomen.
[01:16:59.440 --> 01:17:03.320]  And then the Secret Service agent who was there was shot through the throat.
[01:17:03.320 --> 01:17:07.840]  And there was a campaign worker, a woman, who was shot in the leg.
[01:17:07.840 --> 01:17:13.840]  Now we got four in Wallace and five, six, seven coming out of a five-shot weapon.
[01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:18.200]  Am I the only reporter in the history of that, in this case, who figured that out?
[01:17:18.200 --> 01:17:20.800]  Of course not.
[01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:23.880]  But I'm one of the few, the only one who ever got it published, I'm the only one who ever
[01:17:23.880 --> 01:17:31.520]  talks about it because, and this is why I admonish you news people in Oklahoma City,
[01:17:31.520 --> 01:17:36.440]  because the bombs were on the inside of the building, there was never any evidence of
[01:17:36.440 --> 01:17:39.160]  ammonium nitrate fuel oil on the street.
[01:17:39.160 --> 01:17:45.720]  There are two signatures of ammonium nitrate fuel oil, one flames, which there were none
[01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:49.040]  in the Murrah building, there were flames outside in the cars, but not in the Murrah
[01:17:49.040 --> 01:17:53.320]  building, rescue was going on immediately, within two minutes.
[01:17:53.320 --> 01:17:56.920]  And the other signature is nitrate gas.
[01:17:56.920 --> 01:18:02.080]  No one can go near an anvil explosion for about an hour without a gas mask because of
[01:18:02.080 --> 01:18:04.200]  the nitrate gas that's in the area.
[01:18:04.200 --> 01:18:09.960]  So the whole anvil thing was a phony, it was a frame.
[01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:15.040]  And Tim McVeigh was a setup from the beginning, I'm not saying he wasn't involved, just like
[01:18:15.040 --> 01:18:19.760]  Oswald was active in Dallas, Texas being set up, but there were two Oswalds, and that would
[01:18:19.760 --> 01:18:24.480]  take me the rest of the afternoon to explain that one to you on the CIA setup on that.
[01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:30.280]  But Tim McVeigh was of military intelligence, his death certificate said when he died, he
[01:18:30.280 --> 01:18:32.200]  was a United States soldier, that was his occupation.
[01:18:32.200 --> 01:18:36.080]  Well, he was supposed to have been out of the Army since 91, so what is this business
[01:18:36.080 --> 01:18:37.080]  here?
[01:18:37.080 --> 01:18:41.960]  Well, the fact was that he still was, he still was in the U.S. military, somebody was funding
[01:18:41.960 --> 01:18:48.020]  that operation for him to travel all over the United States.
[01:18:48.020 --> 01:18:55.880]  So I admonish the news people in Oklahoma City because you have, you're suckers for
[01:18:55.880 --> 01:19:03.080]  a lie, and you swallowed the official story that didn't become official until two o'clock
[01:19:03.080 --> 01:19:04.080]  in the afternoon.
[01:19:04.080 --> 01:19:07.760]  For about five hours, the street reporters were telling the truth, and you should go
[01:19:07.760 --> 01:19:17.920]  back and look at a video documentary put together all from the local television news shots called
[01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:23.160]  Cover Up in Oklahoma, and you will see that the street reporters were telling the truth,
[01:19:23.160 --> 01:19:28.360]  and they always do in the initial hours in one of these big deals.
[01:19:28.360 --> 01:19:31.160]  They always tell the truth in the beginning, but what happens is they get censored at the
[01:19:31.160 --> 01:19:32.160]  top.
[01:19:32.160 --> 01:19:38.400]  Now, I know some of you reporters here were too young to be involved in 1995, but talk
[01:19:38.400 --> 01:19:45.240]  to some of your colleagues and ask them, how come they didn't report, continue to report
[01:19:45.240 --> 01:19:47.520]  that the bombs are on the inside of the building?
[01:19:47.520 --> 01:19:52.000]  It's harm, and said the, fill out, any blind man can see that.
[01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:55.400]  I interviewed two or three years later, a man who worked on the second floor of the
[01:19:55.400 --> 01:20:00.520]  journal record building across the street from Murrah and across the parking lot, and
[01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:06.360]  he told me that the toys from the Murrah nursery were blown through the window of the journal
[01:20:06.360 --> 01:20:10.400]  record building into his office, and all the furniture was pushed all the way to the back.
[01:20:10.400 --> 01:20:15.920]  Fortunately, his desk was near the back, toys from the Murrah building nursery.
[01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:21.760]  Now, the law of physics will not allow a bomb to go off between the two buildings, and demolish
[01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:25.560]  this one and blow toys out across the street into that one, all right?
[01:20:25.560 --> 01:20:27.560]  That just didn't happen.
[01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:33.720]  So, we're violating all the laws of logic here, but every official story becomes a law.
[01:20:33.720 --> 01:20:35.400]  Look at 9-1-1.
[01:20:35.400 --> 01:20:41.320]  Never in the history of firefighting has ever a skyscraper tumbled from too much heat in
[01:20:41.320 --> 01:20:46.000]  the building from a fire, and we're talking about some that burn for days, like the Reno
[01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:50.400]  Hotel fire and casino fire, another one in Madrid, Spain, burned for literally two and
[01:20:50.400 --> 01:20:53.660]  three days.
[01:20:53.660 --> 01:20:58.480]  But they want us to believe that in New York City, that two of the towers fell within an
[01:20:58.480 --> 01:20:59.720]  hour or so of each other.
[01:20:59.720 --> 01:21:05.240]  I think one was more than an hour, one was less than an hour after the bombs went off
[01:21:05.240 --> 01:21:06.240]  on the inside.
[01:21:06.240 --> 01:21:11.280]  Oh, there was some kind of plane it hit, too, but that was diversionary, just like the truck
[01:21:11.280 --> 01:21:14.120]  bomb was here in Oklahoma City.
[01:21:14.120 --> 01:21:18.280]  But then a third one falls in the afternoon, and half of the Americans don't even know
[01:21:18.280 --> 01:21:25.480]  that a 47-story building called Building 7 in New York City collapsed at 523 in the afternoon,
[01:21:25.480 --> 01:21:29.800]  some seven hours after the first two did in the morning.
[01:21:29.800 --> 01:21:33.520]  It was never hit by an airplane, it had some fires inside.
[01:21:33.520 --> 01:21:38.080]  We learned later that it was the brains, probably, the whole operation, that there was all kind
[01:21:38.080 --> 01:21:43.520]  of CIA equipment inside there, and, of course, it had to come down.
[01:21:43.520 --> 01:21:46.800]  But we reported to the American Free Press, and it was one of my favorite stories of the
[01:21:46.800 --> 01:21:51.920]  whole 9-1-1 thing, and you've got to understand, most of the stuff we uncover has to come out
[01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:58.760]  of London Press, Paris, or Berlin, because we have such a propaganda machine here in
[01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:03.840]  the States that they cover up whatever they want to cover up, and one of the big cover-ups
[01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:10.120]  was after all the planes had been grounded on 9-1-1, that the whole Bin Laden family
[01:22:10.120 --> 01:22:13.640]  was flown out of Boston and allowed to escape back to Europe.
[01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:20.280]  Those cousins and aunts and uncles, how many Americans know that Osama Bin Laden was actually
[01:22:20.280 --> 01:22:26.120]  a partner in the oil business with George Bush 20, 30 years ago, in the early 80s?
[01:22:26.120 --> 01:22:29.100]  And he's been CIA since the early 80s.
[01:22:29.100 --> 01:22:33.000]  What a convenient patchy dependence holding on.
[01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:34.480]  And so what do we do first?
[01:22:34.480 --> 01:22:39.400]  Well, we get the Patriot Act passed first to give away more liberty in exchange for
[01:22:39.400 --> 01:22:40.400]  security.
[01:22:40.400 --> 01:22:45.080]  Of course, it had been written since the first week Bush was in office, waiting for the new
[01:22:45.080 --> 01:22:49.120]  Pearl Harbor, as they described it.
[01:22:49.120 --> 01:22:56.280]  And then you will remember that only a week or so after the 9-1-1 incident, the FBI came
[01:22:56.280 --> 01:22:59.720]  up with 19 suspects.
[01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:00.720]  Here they are.
[01:23:00.720 --> 01:23:01.720]  Here are the terrorists.
[01:23:01.720 --> 01:23:05.300]  Well, the problem was we never heard this in America, but out of Saudi Arabia, we had
[01:23:05.300 --> 01:23:09.600]  six of them stand up immediately, live and well, saying, wait a minute, I didn't crash
[01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:12.440]  any plane in the trade center, here I am.
[01:23:12.440 --> 01:23:17.260]  And now three more have surfaced, nine out of the 19 at least are alive today.
[01:23:17.260 --> 01:23:22.880]  So some more of the Federal Bureau of Intimidation's baloney that they were feeding.
[01:23:22.880 --> 01:23:25.720]  The official story becomes another lie.
[01:23:25.720 --> 01:23:28.080]  How's that?
[01:23:28.080 --> 01:23:38.120]  Well, my favorite story of the whole 9-1-1 incident was, and some of you may have seen
[01:23:38.120 --> 01:23:47.640]  it in AFP when we reported, was a BBC, British Broadcasting Corporation out of London, has
[01:23:47.640 --> 01:23:49.800]  their woman who happens to be in New York that day.
[01:23:49.800 --> 01:23:54.640]  So she's reporting all day long about the explosion of the trade center.
[01:23:54.640 --> 01:24:06.120]  And at 5 o'clock, she comes on stage in Manhattan with her back to the trade center.
[01:24:06.120 --> 01:24:10.680]  And she's saying it's now been reported that the Solomon Brothers building, which was building
[01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:15.160]  seven in the trade center, 47-story tower building has collapsed.
[01:24:15.160 --> 01:24:20.240]  Well, the problem with this story is, as you look in the background, there is a Solomon
[01:24:20.240 --> 01:24:24.880]  Brothers building still standing behind her, as she is reporting.
[01:24:24.880 --> 01:24:29.400]  And it's at 5 o'clock, and 23 minutes later, indeed, it did go down.
[01:24:29.400 --> 01:24:32.240]  Now, is that conspiracy theory?
[01:24:32.240 --> 01:24:36.600]  Well, go ahead and call that theory if you want.
[01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:40.000]  But it's not theory that the bombs were inside the Murrow building.
[01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:47.500]  It's not theory that at least two men were murdered by an official dome in Oklahoma City
[01:24:47.500 --> 01:24:48.500]  after the incident.
[01:24:48.500 --> 01:24:55.960]  Of course, Terry Yakes was outrageous, I mean, here, May the 8th of 1996, a year later.
[01:24:55.960 --> 01:25:01.440]  He's supposed to get an award three days later on the 11th for all the great heroic work
[01:25:01.440 --> 01:25:05.640]  that he had done the previous year.
[01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:13.200]  But they want us to believe that he committed suicide by slashing himself 13 times, 11 of
[01:25:13.200 --> 01:25:18.560]  them here in a defensive position, and two of them across the throat.
[01:25:18.560 --> 01:25:24.680]  And then he tied a chain around his neck and dragged himself for a mile across the prairie.
[01:25:24.680 --> 01:25:29.400]  And he gets out there, and he shoots himself in the head at an absolutely impossible angle
[01:25:29.400 --> 01:25:33.000]  with some kind of small caliber weapon that could not be found.
[01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:40.400]  And we had 40, count them, city and county and state officers out there combing the ground,
[01:25:40.400 --> 01:25:44.080]  trying to find the suicide weapon.
[01:25:44.080 --> 01:25:47.960]  And for an hour, they combed the area, they can't find it.
[01:25:47.960 --> 01:25:54.760]  But the Wizard of Oz flies in on a helicopter, Bob Ricks and Chief Gonzalez come flying in
[01:25:54.760 --> 01:26:01.200]  on a helicopter and they land, and Bob Ricks, the big FBI wing dean who lied to us for 51
[01:26:01.200 --> 01:26:09.000]  straight days in Waco on the television, fabricating whatever stories he could come up with, it
[01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:13.560]  takes Bob Ricks about five minutes to, oh, here's the weapon, we got it.
[01:26:13.560 --> 01:26:18.080]  Of course, as someone said earlier, that weapon was never turned over to the family, so we
[01:26:18.080 --> 01:26:22.360]  don't know anything about what caliber it might have been, but we can be sure it wasn't
[01:26:22.360 --> 01:26:27.500]  the weapon that Terry carried, because there was not enough damage to the body.
[01:26:27.500 --> 01:26:31.120]  But these are the sorts of things that go on, and it's been my experience that there
[01:26:31.120 --> 01:26:36.240]  are only two factions in the United States that can prevent an autopsy, and one of them
[01:26:36.240 --> 01:26:40.520]  is the CIA and the other is the Federal Bureau of Intimidation.
[01:26:40.520 --> 01:26:48.440]  And these medical examiners, indeed, will knuckle under for them out of fear of repercussions
[01:26:48.440 --> 01:26:49.440]  if they don't.
[01:26:49.440 --> 01:26:54.720]  Well, if you want to read your history, you'll find out that almost every one of the stories
[01:26:54.720 --> 01:26:55.720]  is a lie.
[01:26:55.720 --> 01:26:59.520]  Lyndon Johnson got us into Vietnam with a lie, claiming the Gulf of Tonkin happened,
[01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:00.520]  when it didn't.
[01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:05.320]  There was never an incident there where we were attacked by any North Vietnamese ships.
[01:27:05.320 --> 01:27:07.480]  Every one you look at, it goes on and on and on.
[01:27:07.480 --> 01:27:16.080]  The attempted murder of Ron O'Reilly on March 30, 1981, and immediately after the incident,
[01:27:16.080 --> 01:27:19.520]  Nancy Jeckerson in NBC News reported a second gun being fired.
[01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:21.720]  She only said it once.
[01:27:21.720 --> 01:27:23.480]  She never reported that again.
[01:27:23.480 --> 01:27:27.320]  But if you look at the History Channel, when those scenes come on, you can see that John
[01:27:27.320 --> 01:27:31.840]  Hinckley is over here in a football scrimmage, covered up by about six or seven Secret Service
[01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:36.480]  agents, and tackled on the ground.
[01:27:36.480 --> 01:27:44.800]  But McCarthy, the Secret Service agent, who's over six feet tall and over 200 pounds, runs
[01:27:44.800 --> 01:27:49.080]  as he's supposed to do, and positions himself between himself and the president, but it's
[01:27:49.080 --> 01:27:54.160]  over here on this side of the screen, and he takes one in the gut from this angle, and
[01:27:54.160 --> 01:28:00.440]  is strong enough to actually lift him off of his heels onto his toes.
[01:28:00.440 --> 01:28:02.480]  Hinckley's carrying a.22 pistol.
[01:28:02.480 --> 01:28:05.720] .22s don't do that.
[01:28:05.720 --> 01:28:11.960]  But Officer McCarthy, of course, went down, and I won't go into a lot of the details
[01:28:11.960 --> 01:28:18.280]  on that right now, except for you to understand that the number one suspect in that attempted
[01:28:18.280 --> 01:28:24.580]  murder was never investigated, because he also was the one who had most to gain.
[01:28:24.580 --> 01:28:29.000]  He was named was George Bush, and he was about to be elevated to become president of the
[01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:32.640]  United States, which I think was by design, because we're only nine weeks into the Reagan
[01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:33.640]  presidency.
[01:28:33.640 --> 01:28:38.800]  It took him about that long to put this plot together.
[01:28:38.800 --> 01:28:48.080]  And John Chance for NBC News, reporter at that time, actually said on NBC hourly report
[01:28:48.080 --> 01:28:57.440]  that night, half-hour report, that what a coincidence, what a coincidence that Scott
[01:28:57.440 --> 01:29:06.840]  Hinckley, brother of John Hinckley Jr., the shooter, and Neil Bush, son of George Bush,
[01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:13.400]  were good friends in Denver, Colorado, and they had a dinner engagement scheduled for
[01:29:13.400 --> 01:29:17.760]  that night.
[01:29:17.760 --> 01:29:19.440]  What are the odds?
[01:29:19.440 --> 01:29:22.560]  What are the odds of such a thing coming down?
[01:29:22.560 --> 01:29:25.400]  But of course, because George Bush is vice president of the United States, he's never
[01:29:25.400 --> 01:29:29.600]  indicated and never investigated.
[01:29:29.600 --> 01:29:34.280]  And the attempted murders pinned on Hinckley, and of course, the rest is history.
[01:29:34.280 --> 01:29:37.200]  Look at them over and over and over, and you'll see almost everyone is a lie.
[01:29:37.200 --> 01:29:46.880]  Well, the one in Oklahoma City was a lie, too, and the Kenny Trinadue situation, most
[01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:52.120]  of you here probably know, but if you newsmen are not aware, news people, excuse me, to
[01:29:52.120 --> 01:29:58.280]  be politically correct, but if you're not aware, Kenny Trinadue committed suicide in
[01:29:58.280 --> 01:30:04.320]  August of 95 out here at the holding center, and he committed suicide by beating himself
[01:30:04.320 --> 01:30:06.360]  to death.
[01:30:06.360 --> 01:30:13.160]  And he was beaten from head to toe, literally had bruises on the bottoms of his feet, and
[01:30:13.160 --> 01:30:16.360]  must have put up one heck of a fight.
[01:30:16.360 --> 01:30:21.360]  And Kenny was, he was pretty tough, according to his brother, and he looks at it in his
[01:30:21.360 --> 01:30:25.920]  pictures, too, like he's very capable of handling himself, but I'm sure it must have been six
[01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:29.560]  or eight guys in there beating him with clubs and everything else in that cell.
[01:30:29.560 --> 01:30:33.040]  And they said that even though the cell got cleaned up before anybody could get there,
[01:30:33.040 --> 01:30:37.360]  that it was blood even on the ceiling, on the walls, and all over the place, so he put
[01:30:37.360 --> 01:30:42.600]  up one heck of a fight for his life, but it went down as suicide.
[01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:50.320]  And by the way, there are over 100, we are about 110 now of suicided people or people
[01:30:50.320 --> 01:30:55.360]  with strange deaths in the Clinton administration and before in Arkansas.
[01:30:55.360 --> 01:30:58.720]  We call them Arkans, where they got Arkansited.
[01:30:58.720 --> 01:31:05.200]  And since this case, as someone mentioned earlier, could relate back to Hillary Clinton
[01:31:05.200 --> 01:31:10.640]  and some of the other things, perhaps this even might have been another Arkansite.
[01:31:10.640 --> 01:31:13.920]  I do remember one story we used to tell in that era.
[01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:19.600]  Many of you may remember the rash of church fires on the black churches across the southeast
[01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:25.280]  back in that era, 96, 97 in there, went on for a couple of years.
[01:31:25.280 --> 01:31:29.840]  Well, finally, some way I figured out that Hillary Clinton had hidden the Whitewater
[01:31:29.840 --> 01:31:36.080]  papers in one of the churches, but you couldn't remember which one it was.
[01:31:36.080 --> 01:31:47.120]  Probably not true, but nevertheless, I can't urge you news people enough to dig for the
[01:31:47.120 --> 01:31:54.640]  truth, look into the films of that morning here in Oklahoma City and watch how the story
[01:31:54.640 --> 01:32:00.000]  changes and then look into the cover up that just, you know, went on and on and on.
[01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:04.880]  But we talk about those two murders here and there undoubtedly were more.
[01:32:04.880 --> 01:32:08.480]  In fact, I just learned about a couple of others today that I want to talk to Joe about
[01:32:08.480 --> 01:32:10.480]  that I had never heard of.
[01:32:10.480 --> 01:32:16.640]  But then we also, if indeed it happened, we have to consider that Tim McVeigh was a victim
[01:32:16.640 --> 01:32:18.640]  of the situation too.
[01:32:18.640 --> 01:32:28.160]  And if indeed he was executed, then that would be murder number three of principal players.
[01:32:28.160 --> 01:32:34.800]  I just heard it's been 15 years and we were talking on the radio last night and we all
[01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:36.480]  hope it's not 15 more.
[01:32:36.480 --> 01:32:41.520]  But we, like Hoppe, I kind of believe that it will be because if they can cover up the
[01:32:41.520 --> 01:32:46.240]  Kennedy assassination for nearly 47 years and then say, oh, well, yeah, we agree you
[01:32:46.240 --> 01:32:48.240]  were right, but case is closed.
[01:32:48.240 --> 01:32:54.800]  I can tell you they can never, ever admit to killing 3,000 or more in New York City
[01:32:54.800 --> 01:32:57.840]  and they can never admit to killing 168 here.
[01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:02.080]  Actually, I think I always said 169 because of that missing leg.
[01:33:02.080 --> 01:33:06.640]  But these are things, as somebody told me not long ago, he said, you know, I believe
[01:33:06.640 --> 01:33:11.360]  we could show a videotape now of Dick Cheney hauling munitions into the Trade Center New
[01:33:11.360 --> 01:33:16.080]  York City by himself and it still wouldn't make any difference.
[01:33:16.080 --> 01:33:20.080]  They could still never afford to confess to the truth.
[01:33:20.080 --> 01:33:22.480]  But nevertheless, I say don't give up.
[01:33:22.480 --> 01:33:27.040]  Keep slugging and keep fighting for the truth.
[01:33:27.040 --> 01:33:32.800]  And if you're going to move ahead in your industry, I can tell you that, too, that the
[01:33:32.800 --> 01:33:38.000]  way you move ahead in the news industry today is being a liar.
[01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:42.560]  You have to carry and perpetuate the story of the official story.
[01:33:42.560 --> 01:33:44.720]  And that's the way you move up.
[01:33:44.720 --> 01:33:48.480]  But I hope, like I, that you can't do that.
[01:33:48.480 --> 01:33:54.320]  I hope you're not one who can sell the truth away for anything.
[01:33:55.360 --> 01:33:58.000]  And I urge you to get on with it.
[01:33:59.120 --> 01:34:04.160]  As some philosopher said, upon the plains of hesitation, bleached the bones of countless
[01:34:04.160 --> 01:34:08.080]  millions who, upon the threshold of victory, sat down to wait.
[01:34:09.040 --> 01:34:10.240]  And while waiting, they died.
[01:34:10.240 --> 01:34:13.760]  Thank you.
[01:34:13.760 --> 01:34:27.760]  Okay, we've got, we're going to have to wrap it up at about 3.30 here.
[01:34:27.760 --> 01:34:29.120]  Looks like we have about 40 more minutes.
[01:34:29.120 --> 01:34:34.480]  If you folks are interested in doing it, answer, like I said, we did have the index cards here,
[01:34:34.480 --> 01:34:37.680]  but we can bring one by one any of the speakers that you have any questions for.
[01:34:37.680 --> 01:34:39.680]  We'll bring them to the podium to answer.
[01:34:39.680 --> 01:34:43.920]  And I do want to make a couple of comments before we get into that segment to reiterate
[01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:48.720]  the new book coming out that was authored by David Paul Hammer, who is actually on death
[01:34:48.720 --> 01:34:50.080]  row in Terre Haute.
[01:34:50.080 --> 01:34:51.280]  It's called Deadly Secrets.
[01:34:51.280 --> 01:34:56.960]  You can find that book available at authorhouse.com and simply search for the title Deadly Secrets.
[01:34:57.520 --> 01:35:01.680]  And also want to encourage you to log on to the website, kennethtrentado.com.
[01:35:02.960 --> 01:35:08.160]  We, I don't think we can even begin to thank attorney Trentado, if that is even the proper
[01:35:08.160 --> 01:35:14.240]  word for all of the selfless, unselfish work that he's done monetarily, physically, mentally,
[01:35:14.240 --> 01:35:14.800]  and otherwise.
[01:35:16.320 --> 01:35:19.120]  And we had invited him to come here to speak.
[01:35:19.120 --> 01:35:24.240]  He was not able to due to prior trial obligations in Salt Lake City, but we told him that we
[01:35:24.240 --> 01:35:26.480]  would definitely have him here in mind and spirit.
[01:35:26.480 --> 01:35:32.320]  So kennethtrentado.com, you will get a full from A to Z coverage of what happened to his
[01:35:32.320 --> 01:35:36.720]  brother and how he's tip us on this case of this day.
[01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:40.080]  Are there anybody, anybody in the audience, anybody that wanted to field a question for
[01:35:40.080 --> 01:35:41.040]  any of our speakers today?
[01:35:43.040 --> 01:35:45.840]  Any members from the press, general public?
[01:35:47.360 --> 01:35:47.600]  Okay.
[01:35:47.600 --> 01:35:50.960]  Any other final comments from anybody in the speakers that you want to say here before
[01:35:50.960 --> 01:35:51.680]  we wrap it up?
[01:35:51.680 --> 01:35:52.480]  BZ, come on up.
[01:35:52.480 --> 01:36:11.520]  Due to his notoriety, so to speak, he wound up going up to Florence, Colorado and spending
[01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:13.120]  a day and a half with Terry Nichols.
[01:36:14.240 --> 01:36:19.520]  And while he was there, Terry Nichols told him that he and McZae were conversing one
[01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:24.720]  day and that they kind of looked like he was working for the FBI and that Larry Cox, the
[01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:27.040]  number two man in the FBI was his handler.
[01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:29.600]  I forgot to mention that.
[01:36:37.120 --> 01:36:37.760]  Okay.
[01:36:37.760 --> 01:36:40.400]  I guess this concludes our press conference.
[01:36:40.400 --> 01:36:42.240]  15 year anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:36:42.240 --> 01:36:43.200]  We're not going to continue.
[01:36:43.200 --> 01:36:46.880]  We are going to continue to fight for the truth and we will never give up.
[01:36:46.880 --> 01:36:47.920]  Thank you for coming folks.
[01:36:47.920 --> 01:36:50.240]  We appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to join us.
[01:36:50.240 --> 01:36:51.040]  Have a good afternoon.
[01:36:58.160 --> 01:37:00.640]  Okay, folks, there it was.
[01:37:00.640 --> 01:37:06.400]  That was the press conference organized by Chris Emery and James Lane earlier today on
[01:37:06.400 --> 01:37:10.080]  the steps of the Capitol building in Oklahoma City.
[01:37:10.080 --> 01:37:12.960]  And I have to say, I am very impressed.
[01:37:12.960 --> 01:37:16.480]  We do have Chris and James with us right now.
[01:37:16.480 --> 01:37:19.360]  They're joining us from their studio.
[01:37:19.360 --> 01:37:23.760]  They've piped in as they usually do on their show.
[01:37:23.760 --> 01:37:26.480]  And gentlemen, thank you for joining us tonight.
[01:37:27.360 --> 01:37:28.320]  Good evening, Deb.
[01:37:28.320 --> 01:37:29.200]  Oh, man.
[01:37:29.200 --> 01:37:34.000]  I got to say, I was mostly impressed with Hoppy Heidelberg.
[01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:36.080]  That was just amazing.
[01:37:36.080 --> 01:37:37.200]  And you know what?
[01:37:37.200 --> 01:37:38.560]  I love the catchphrase.
[01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:40.320]  He's given me a new catchphrase.
[01:37:41.040 --> 01:37:43.840]  The World Trade Center bombing.
[01:37:43.840 --> 01:37:45.360]  That's what I'm going to start calling it.
[01:37:45.360 --> 01:37:47.440]  I'm not going to call it the events of 9-11 anymore.
[01:37:47.440 --> 01:37:50.560]  I'm going to start calling it the World Trade Center bombing, just like we call it the Oklahoma
[01:37:50.560 --> 01:37:52.000]  City bombing, because that's what it was.
[01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:53.360]  It was the World Trade Center bombing.
[01:37:53.360 --> 01:37:55.040]  And I was so impressed by him.
[01:37:55.040 --> 01:37:57.920]  I mean, they tried to subpoena all these witnesses.
[01:37:57.920 --> 01:37:59.520]  They tried to subpoena tapes.
[01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:03.040]  They wouldn't let the grand jury do anything, man.
[01:38:03.040 --> 01:38:06.960]  I mean, that was just, it was just heart wrenching hearing him.
[01:38:06.960 --> 01:38:11.040]  Well, you know, where he's talking about, you know, asking for access to the videos,
[01:38:11.040 --> 01:38:15.360]  you know, and this is what we were talking about, you know, with Pat, even last night.
[01:38:15.360 --> 01:38:18.480]  You know, if this is the official story, just let us see the tapes, you know.
[01:38:19.280 --> 01:38:22.880]  And it's not that they said that they lost them or they were burned up in a fire or something.
[01:38:22.880 --> 01:38:27.280]  They're just flat out deleting the parts that they don't want us to see, you know,
[01:38:27.280 --> 01:38:29.120]  and then deny it to the grand jury.
[01:38:29.120 --> 01:38:31.760]  I mean, the audacity of it is just staggering.
[01:38:32.480 --> 01:38:37.840]  And then, of course, we saw how they treated Jesse Trinadour on the request for those.
[01:38:37.840 --> 01:38:43.040]  There was an interview that I caught, another catchphrase that Hoppe had.
[01:38:43.040 --> 01:38:45.360]  It was back in November of 2004.
[01:38:45.360 --> 01:38:49.280]  And we used this on a banner that our film crew displayed and handed out the leaflets
[01:38:49.280 --> 01:38:51.360]  that I cited at the beginning of this press conference.
[01:38:51.920 --> 01:38:55.280]  At the Jesus statue on the west side of the memorial, across the street,
[01:38:55.280 --> 01:38:58.560]  out of the hands of the federal protective services.
[01:38:58.560 --> 01:39:02.320]  They were glaring at us quite a bit throughout the three months that we were there.
[01:39:03.680 --> 01:39:05.200]  This is Hoppe's famous line.
[01:39:05.200 --> 01:39:09.600]  He says, the only thing the FBI does these days is sweep up the broken glass.
[01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:12.240]  And that's exactly what they did with the Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:39:12.240 --> 01:39:14.640]  I quote, and we had a picture of the Murrah building.
[01:39:14.640 --> 01:39:19.280]  And we had so many members of the public comment favorably on that because they knew.
[01:39:19.280 --> 01:39:23.280]  People know in passing that there's something so horribly wrong with the story here.
[01:39:23.920 --> 01:39:25.280]  And Hoppe is a very smart man.
[01:39:25.280 --> 01:39:26.320]  He's a Mensa member.
[01:39:26.960 --> 01:39:28.160]  He's nobody's fool.
[01:39:28.160 --> 01:39:31.040]  And you met him in person this weekend.
[01:39:31.040 --> 01:39:36.240]  And he's, he is very, as you can say, he was very eloquent in his speaking.
[01:39:36.240 --> 01:39:38.640]  He only had a certain amount of time to speak today.
[01:39:38.640 --> 01:39:40.400]  So he couldn't hit on all the highlights.
[01:39:40.400 --> 01:39:44.960]  But the first time I met him was at his ranch.
[01:39:44.960 --> 01:39:47.200]  It was about three weeks after I moved to Oklahoma City.
[01:39:47.200 --> 01:39:52.080]  And he lives about 25 miles south of the city in a community called Blanchard, Oklahoma.
[01:39:52.080 --> 01:39:55.200]  He was a multimillion dollar horse breeder.
[01:39:55.840 --> 01:39:59.760]  And it got to the point, he told me we're sharing a cup of coffee or sharing coffee
[01:39:59.760 --> 01:40:00.880]  at his kitchen table.
[01:40:00.880 --> 01:40:05.200]  And he says, Chris, it got so bad that my neighbors did not want their phone
[01:40:05.200 --> 01:40:07.600]  numbers on my phone bill and vice versa.
[01:40:07.600 --> 01:40:10.160]  His neighbors were getting harassed because of what he was doing.
[01:40:10.720 --> 01:40:12.160]  And the FBI was relentless.
[01:40:12.880 --> 01:40:17.200]  They would literally, he could set his clock by every time that they would fly the
[01:40:17.200 --> 01:40:18.480]  helicopters over his house.
[01:40:18.480 --> 01:40:20.240]  He'd have to go out and wave them off.
[01:40:20.240 --> 01:40:22.080]  This is around dinnertime every night.
[01:40:22.080 --> 01:40:24.160]  And then it happened for almost three straight months.
[01:40:24.800 --> 01:40:26.480]  And he says, they're not black helicopters.
[01:40:26.480 --> 01:40:28.000]  And they looked at him and says, what are you talking about?
[01:40:28.000 --> 01:40:29.840]  He says, they're actually dark green.
[01:40:29.840 --> 01:40:34.560]  They landed by his house about 50 yards away.
[01:40:34.560 --> 01:40:36.080]  And he says, it's a dark metallic green.
[01:40:36.080 --> 01:40:38.320]  That's how intimidating they were trying to get him.
[01:40:38.320 --> 01:40:40.000]  He didn't let it faze him.
[01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:41.200]  They landed by his house?
[01:40:41.200 --> 01:40:43.840]  When they knew that he knew what he was doing.
[01:40:43.840 --> 01:40:46.400]  So that's just in a nutshell what he'd gone through.
[01:40:46.400 --> 01:40:47.920]  It was pure hell for him.
[01:40:47.920 --> 01:40:51.840]  And when we were wrapping up the press conference today, he told me, he said, that
[01:40:51.840 --> 01:40:55.200]  was one of the big mistakes was taking him off of that grand jury.
[01:40:55.200 --> 01:40:57.040]  He said, because they created a monster.
[01:40:57.040 --> 01:40:58.320]  He said, now he's relentless.
[01:40:59.120 --> 01:41:01.680]  I can't believe they landed the helicopters right by his house.
[01:41:02.400 --> 01:41:02.880]  Yeah.
[01:41:02.880 --> 01:41:07.920]  And he said, and that's more of a, it's not so much a direct, that is a bail threat.
[01:41:07.920 --> 01:41:11.280]  Because he says, I could be out grocery shopping or running errands.
[01:41:11.280 --> 01:41:15.760]  And they could drop a blare of gas on my house and say, hey, this cook set his house on fire.
[01:41:15.760 --> 01:41:18.480]  And everything, all of his property would be destroyed.
[01:41:19.040 --> 01:41:23.040]  But he turned it around and he just, he went back at him twice as hard
[01:41:23.040 --> 01:41:27.280]  and kept a positive attitude all of these years.
[01:41:27.280 --> 01:41:32.080]  Well, Chris, you and James had something y'all wanted to announce, but first,
[01:41:32.080 --> 01:41:37.680]  before we turn it back over to you, I wanted Eddie and Randy to make commentary
[01:41:38.240 --> 01:41:39.440]  before we continue on.
[01:41:39.440 --> 01:41:40.560]  Randy, do you have anything?
[01:41:41.920 --> 01:41:47.920]  Yes, I was telling Chris earlier that he ought to be ashamed of himself,
[01:41:47.920 --> 01:41:52.560]  bushwhacking that poor media this way.
[01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:57.440]  Yeah, the mainstream media didn't know that y'all were going to hit them with all this information, right?
[01:41:57.440 --> 01:42:03.280]  And they were so dumbfounded by all of this information that when you got to the question
[01:42:03.280 --> 01:42:06.400]  and answers, they couldn't even speak.
[01:42:06.400 --> 01:42:09.920]  Yeah.
[01:42:09.920 --> 01:42:11.760]  What's your take on that, James?
[01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:16.080]  Well, what has happened was, you know, we had simultaneous events going on that day.
[01:42:16.080 --> 01:42:19.920]  The Oklahoma Second Amendment Association was doing a press conference.
[01:42:19.920 --> 01:42:21.920]  There was a tea party going on outside.
[01:42:21.920 --> 01:42:26.960]  We had some national news media present because of the recent AP article
[01:42:26.960 --> 01:42:28.320]  talking about Oklahoma militias.
[01:42:28.320 --> 01:42:31.680]  It was totally mischaracterized, but it really brought out a lot of media.
[01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:36.960]  So some of them had come in and sat up during the beginning of the press conference
[01:42:36.960 --> 01:42:42.960]  and they were taking people to the side and doing interviews away from, you know, away from the mic.
[01:42:42.960 --> 01:42:48.400]  So they did get their questions asked, but it was done, you know, during the press conference.
[01:42:48.400 --> 01:42:50.800]  By the end, they had pretty much got what they wanted and left.
[01:42:53.360 --> 01:43:01.440]  Well, I thought it was pretty telling that none of them would ask a question to the microphone.
[01:43:02.720 --> 01:43:05.600]  Yeah, it was a dead silence.
[01:43:05.600 --> 01:43:07.920]  A gentleman, a writer from the New York or the LA Times.
[01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:12.720]  And then, of course, we had, oh gosh, his name is Nolan Clay.
[01:43:12.720 --> 01:43:14.560]  He's a fixture with the Oklahoman.
[01:43:14.560 --> 01:43:20.240]  He pretty much himself and two others were on a crack team of reporters
[01:43:20.240 --> 01:43:24.880]  who just were relentless with Charles for the first two and a half years of this case.
[01:43:24.880 --> 01:43:28.720]  In fact, Charles shared that we had dinner after the event and walked through it all.
[01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:31.680]  Anyway, it looks like we're coming up on break here.
[01:43:31.680 --> 01:43:35.920]  No, we're going to skip break because we're coming into the end of the show.
[01:43:35.920 --> 01:43:42.400]  But, you know, it is just sometimes if you it was kind of, I guess, dumb luck and a little
[01:43:42.400 --> 01:43:43.840]  bit of serendipity today.
[01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:47.280]  We scheduled this event over three weeks ago because you have to go through the process
[01:43:47.280 --> 01:43:50.000]  of, you know, the permission and getting everything done and set up.
[01:43:50.000 --> 01:43:54.640]  And I didn't know that the tea party was actually going to be scheduled.
[01:43:54.640 --> 01:43:57.920]  So like James says, we had those large groups outside.
[01:43:57.920 --> 01:44:02.960]  The press was here and they did an amazing job interviewing Charles.
[01:44:02.960 --> 01:44:07.840]  And he was interviewed with the public TV station here last night on the militia.
[01:44:07.840 --> 01:44:10.800]  He's also been interviewed over the last two days by CNN.
[01:44:10.800 --> 01:44:13.360]  It's supposed to air on Anderson Cooper Monday night.
[01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:17.360]  So we're all hoping that they don't just edit it into, you know, oblivion.
[01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:23.040]  Of course, the candidate, Randy Brogdon, they're definitely tipping their hat to him, too.
[01:44:23.040 --> 01:44:24.080]  The media is there.
[01:44:24.080 --> 01:44:26.160]  So it was kind of a blessing in disguise.
[01:44:26.160 --> 01:44:30.240]  We had these people that normally would not make the circuit at this time in Oklahoma
[01:44:30.240 --> 01:44:33.040]  City and they migrated over to us.
[01:44:33.040 --> 01:44:35.840]  The significance, like I mentioned at the beginning of the press conference was the
[01:44:35.840 --> 01:44:40.400]  fact that we were actually inside on the second floor with the entire west wing of the Capitol,
[01:44:40.400 --> 01:44:42.160]  which is called the Supreme Court corridor.
[01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:49.600]  And I guess the break thing here, we're not going to break the news agency that was there
[01:44:49.600 --> 01:44:52.160]  that that that did completely ignore us with CNN.
[01:44:52.160 --> 01:44:56.320]  I ran into them at multiple occasions, gave them an invitation to the press conference.
[01:44:56.320 --> 01:44:59.680]  They walked through to do an interview with someone else, walked through the press conference
[01:44:59.680 --> 01:45:00.880]  and didn't even pay attention.
[01:45:01.680 --> 01:45:03.680]  So they were intentionally completely ignored us.
[01:45:04.320 --> 01:45:09.920]  Some of the young reporters, we had two young gentlemen and a young female reporter from
[01:45:09.920 --> 01:45:11.840]  two from Tulsa and one from the local station.
[01:45:12.400 --> 01:45:15.600]  I was in a meeting with James before the interview.
[01:45:15.600 --> 01:45:17.040]  They were in their diapers.
[01:45:17.040 --> 01:45:19.120]  When the bombing happened, that's how young these people are.
[01:45:19.120 --> 01:45:22.240]  And they look at us like deer in the headlights, like, what are you guys doing here?
[01:45:23.520 --> 01:45:25.440]  And it's like, if you only knew.
[01:45:25.440 --> 01:45:28.080]  So if they only listen, go ahead.
[01:45:28.080 --> 01:45:30.960]  Yeah, if they only listen to what you guys have to say, then they would know.
[01:45:32.080 --> 01:45:38.640]  They actually were very professional and they did stick around and actually extended some
[01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:40.800]  interviews to Pat Shannon and Janie Coverdale.
[01:45:40.800 --> 01:45:43.120]  So this is something brand new.
[01:45:43.120 --> 01:45:49.520]  And I think I may have shared this with you, Deb, off the air before we went live.
[01:45:50.160 --> 01:45:54.640]  Justice Taylor, Stephen Taylor was the state district judge at the time of the
[01:45:54.640 --> 01:45:58.320]  Terran Nichols trial, they presided over the trial, very corrupt at the end.
[01:45:58.320 --> 01:46:00.720]  I mean, it was just a travesty, miscarriage of justice.
[01:46:02.480 --> 01:46:08.160]  His office was less than 10 feet from our stage and the rear entrance to it.
[01:46:08.160 --> 01:46:12.880]  And he came out with his wife before we went live and he looked at me.
[01:46:12.880 --> 01:46:17.280]  He knew I was because he knew that I had done some work with Charles and so forth.
[01:46:17.280 --> 01:46:20.960]  And I run into him at the post office, you know, even at the lunchroom in the basement
[01:46:20.960 --> 01:46:21.760]  of the Capitol there.
[01:46:22.480 --> 01:46:24.160]  And he says, what are you guys doing today?
[01:46:24.160 --> 01:46:27.840]  And I said, well, this is a 15 year anniversary press conference for the
[01:46:27.840 --> 01:46:28.800]  Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:46:28.800 --> 01:46:30.480]  And his eyes went wide.
[01:46:30.480 --> 01:46:32.080]  And he says, what are you going to talk about?
[01:46:32.080 --> 01:46:35.040]  And I says, actually, we're going to review a lot of the highlights of the case that haven't
[01:46:35.040 --> 01:46:37.120]  been answered over the last 15 years.
[01:46:37.120 --> 01:46:39.200]  And he said, oh, and he walked away with his wife.
[01:46:41.440 --> 01:46:44.720]  So, you know, in a roundabout way, we put him on notice.
[01:46:45.760 --> 01:46:47.760]  And the press conference was right outside of his office.
[01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:49.120]  Oh, it was priceless.
[01:46:49.120 --> 01:46:49.760]  That's great.
[01:46:49.760 --> 01:46:56.880]  Well, Eddie, the state constitution, handwritten, and a lot of people don't know this.
[01:46:56.880 --> 01:47:00.160]  Gore Vidal's grandfather was a blind U.S.
[01:47:00.160 --> 01:47:03.520]  representative in the Teddy Roosevelt's administration.
[01:47:04.240 --> 01:47:09.120]  And Teddy actually handpicked him to come to help draft the constitution.
[01:47:09.120 --> 01:47:10.880]  There was handwritten, James.
[01:47:10.880 --> 01:47:15.760]  It's an amazing piece of work under bulletproof glass, 30 feet from our stage.
[01:47:15.760 --> 01:47:20.480]  And you're looking ahead 140 feet from where the Diaz was, and there's the big mahogany
[01:47:20.480 --> 01:47:23.520]  doors to the entrance of the state Supreme Court, who are actually ruling in favor of
[01:47:23.520 --> 01:47:28.080]  the multi-county grand jury, which Governor Keating and, of course, Drew Edmondson
[01:47:28.080 --> 01:47:30.160]  dug their heels in and fought tooth and nail.
[01:47:30.720 --> 01:47:35.360]  We found that spent over $35,000 of state taxpayer money to impede that when the
[01:47:35.360 --> 01:47:37.360]  Supreme Court says, what in the world are you guys doing?
[01:47:37.360 --> 01:47:38.560]  Are we out of your mind?
[01:47:38.560 --> 01:47:40.720]  Of course, these people couldn't have handled this grand jury.
[01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:42.080]  Get the heck out of the way.
[01:47:42.080 --> 01:47:43.360]  And now it's a matter of case law.
[01:47:43.360 --> 01:47:45.360]  So nobody can bring that issue up again.
[01:47:45.360 --> 01:47:48.240]  Even though it was provided for in the state constitution, it's unbelievable.
[01:47:48.880 --> 01:47:49.600]  Crazy.
[01:47:49.600 --> 01:47:51.440]  I wanted to get Eddie's take on all of this.
[01:47:51.440 --> 01:47:56.480]  Eddie, what are your comments and thoughts about what you've heard so far tonight?
[01:47:58.160 --> 01:48:03.200]  Well, it's given me a little bit more information than I had on some of the things that were
[01:48:03.200 --> 01:48:08.880]  involved in this, especially the suicide in the jail.
[01:48:09.760 --> 01:48:13.760]  I'd read up a little bit on that and found out exactly what was going on.
[01:48:13.760 --> 01:48:19.520]  And correct me if I'm wrong, gentlemen, but the autopsy pictures showed that there were
[01:48:19.520 --> 01:48:26.480]  actual zip lock, the zip tie marks around his throat as well embedded in the flesh.
[01:48:27.440 --> 01:48:29.200]  Yeah, it was pretty gruesome.
[01:48:29.920 --> 01:48:30.160]  Yeah.
[01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:35.040]  And yet there was no such tie around his neck at the time they found him,
[01:48:35.040 --> 01:48:40.080]  allegedly for the purpose of a suicide, kind of like the gun in the Yankee case.
[01:48:40.080 --> 01:48:42.080]  Yeah.
[01:48:42.080 --> 01:48:47.360]  How does a man commit suicide in an open field and manage to lose the weapon he committed suicide with?
[01:48:48.160 --> 01:48:54.000]  Well, I find it strange that how he drags himself by a rope through the brush and everything,
[01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:59.600]  where he's got grass in his wounds, where he had been, you know, and then to get that far away and
[01:48:59.600 --> 01:49:05.440]  then shoot himself with a weapon far enough that it doesn't leave any residue, you know,
[01:49:05.440 --> 01:49:07.360]  it's just, you know, it's absurd.
[01:49:07.360 --> 01:49:08.560]  It's just beyond absurd.
[01:49:08.560 --> 01:49:09.360]  Yeah.
[01:49:09.360 --> 01:49:14.160]  Well, I mean, it matches pretty well with the Warren Commission's magic bullet theory,
[01:49:14.160 --> 01:49:15.920]  works right along the same lines, right?
[01:49:16.480 --> 01:49:16.720]  Right.
[01:49:16.720 --> 01:49:21.440]  Well, and then the explosion blowing stuff from inside the building out into the window,
[01:49:21.440 --> 01:49:22.400]  into the building next door.
[01:49:23.200 --> 01:49:26.320]  Yeah, it's magic, magic bullets, magic bombs.
[01:49:27.360 --> 01:49:30.400]  The laws of physics don't exist for our government on most days.
[01:49:31.840 --> 01:49:35.520]  We had packed up our equipment and waiting at the elevator to go down
[01:49:35.520 --> 01:49:39.840]  to the ground level past security checkpoint and here comes Drew Edmondson.
[01:49:39.840 --> 01:49:41.920]  Can you believe this guy's 15 years on?
[01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:47.600]  He's got walking down the hallway with an $800 Armani suit and a $600 haircut and just
[01:49:47.600 --> 01:49:48.640]  entourage.
[01:49:48.640 --> 01:49:49.760]  Unbelievable.
[01:49:49.760 --> 01:49:52.000]  This son of a gun just skated on this.
[01:49:52.000 --> 01:49:55.040]  Just walking through there cocky like he owns the place.
[01:49:55.040 --> 01:50:00.400]  And then it has all the other gubernatorial candidates showed up for the tea party to
[01:50:01.360 --> 01:50:02.560]  say a few words.
[01:50:02.560 --> 01:50:06.720]  He declined and says he would be unavailable and then here he is walking around inside
[01:50:06.720 --> 01:50:07.280]  the Capitol.
[01:50:07.920 --> 01:50:08.560]  He was available.
[01:50:08.560 --> 01:50:09.440]  He was there.
[01:50:09.440 --> 01:50:10.400]  He just chickened out.
[01:50:12.400 --> 01:50:19.280]  So it was definitely an interesting day just to have and I commented to Joe,
[01:50:19.280 --> 01:50:24.720]  who was one of the speakers and the brain trust of knowledge and of experience of these
[01:50:24.720 --> 01:50:26.960]  people and I'm in awe.
[01:50:26.960 --> 01:50:31.520]  I've known them for several years and it's just like, wow, why aren't these people
[01:50:31.520 --> 01:50:33.200]  listened to?
[01:50:33.200 --> 01:50:35.760]  It just really blows my mind sometimes.
[01:50:40.080 --> 01:50:42.480]  It sounded like it was a really excellent conference, guys.
[01:50:43.360 --> 01:50:47.680]  I suspect the tide in this is beginning to turn.
[01:50:49.440 --> 01:50:54.880]  We can see from our own show that the sleeping giant is beginning to wake up and he is not
[01:50:54.880 --> 01:50:55.840]  a happy camper.
[01:50:55.840 --> 01:50:59.520]  Well, we were just thrilled to be able to even do this on the tape delay and we want
[01:50:59.520 --> 01:51:01.120]  to thank you guys for stepping in.
[01:51:01.120 --> 01:51:02.640]  This is all brand new.
[01:51:02.640 --> 01:51:06.080]  We tried the wireless and I think there were just a few minor hiccups on that.
[01:51:06.080 --> 01:51:08.080]  Here's the irony, guys.
[01:51:08.080 --> 01:51:12.960]  We were tapping on to the house side of the Capitol onto their server and using their
[01:51:12.960 --> 01:51:18.480]  wireless to beam out this message that 99.9% of the people in that building don't want
[01:51:18.480 --> 01:51:19.040]  to get out.
[01:51:19.040 --> 01:51:20.320]  I mean, how crazy is that?
[01:51:20.320 --> 01:51:26.240]  We have no problem with boasting about that.
[01:51:26.240 --> 01:51:32.240]  It's public property, but I really do have to give credit for the crew that helped us
[01:51:32.240 --> 01:51:34.240]  plan and set that thing up.
[01:51:34.240 --> 01:51:38.240]  They came in with the red carpet and just rolled it out for us.
[01:51:38.240 --> 01:51:38.800]  It was great.
[01:51:38.800 --> 01:51:42.800]  I think the lineup of speakers, you guys, you did a good job on picking them out.
[01:51:42.800 --> 01:51:46.800]  I think Wendy overcame a little bit of her stage fright getting up there.
[01:51:46.800 --> 01:51:48.800]  I think she had a good message.
[01:51:48.800 --> 01:51:54.800]  Yeah, you know, here's a gal that was literally born and raised an hour from where McBake
[01:51:54.800 --> 01:52:00.800]  grew up in northern New York State and done a beautiful job.
[01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:04.800]  We did have a peculiar guest there, I guess, in the fact that they were there.
[01:52:04.800 --> 01:52:06.800]  I guess that was peculiar.
[01:52:06.800 --> 01:52:14.800]  Ron Justice, state senator, who actually voted in favor of, in fact, ran it through, got
[01:52:14.800 --> 01:52:20.800]  it through the Senate Education Committee, this bill that authorized the Memorial Museum
[01:52:20.800 --> 01:52:26.800]  to their storyline, which is complete bunk, to be part of the official textbook curriculum.
[01:52:26.800 --> 01:52:30.800]  His personal aide was down at the press conference reading our handouts.
[01:52:30.800 --> 01:52:32.800]  I didn't go up to him.
[01:52:32.800 --> 01:52:34.800]  I knew who he was.
[01:52:34.800 --> 01:52:36.800]  He'd seen me in his office several times.
[01:52:36.800 --> 01:52:42.800]  And that issue is even more outrageous because at the same time, you had another
[01:52:42.800 --> 01:52:48.800]  state trying to put into law that the Constitution has to be taught in the schools, and they
[01:52:48.800 --> 01:52:49.800]  declined that.
[01:52:49.800 --> 01:52:52.800]  Now, you're not going to learn about the Constitution, but you're going to learn the
[01:52:52.800 --> 01:52:54.800]  false story about the Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:52:54.800 --> 01:52:55.800]  Good point.
[01:52:55.800 --> 01:52:56.800]  Good point.
[01:52:56.800 --> 01:52:57.800]  So...
[01:52:57.800 --> 01:52:59.800]  Lies are truth, and truth are lies.
[01:52:59.800 --> 01:53:04.800]  It was, you know, we've used this term before, but it really did feel like we were in the
[01:53:04.800 --> 01:53:06.800]  middle of a Twilight Zone episode today.
[01:53:06.800 --> 01:53:09.800]  It was very surreal in some respects.
[01:53:09.800 --> 01:53:12.800]  Well, you guys did a fantastic job on the audio, I got to say.
[01:53:12.800 --> 01:53:18.800]  It sounded great on this end, and, you know, there were only half a dozen hiccups or so,
[01:53:18.800 --> 01:53:20.800]  you know, you guys being on a Wi-Fi connection.
[01:53:20.800 --> 01:53:25.800]  But overall, it was awesome.
[01:53:25.800 --> 01:53:26.800]  I wanted to...
[01:53:26.800 --> 01:53:27.800]  You want to take the caller?
[01:53:27.800 --> 01:53:28.800]  No.
[01:53:28.800 --> 01:53:30.800]  Priscilla has some questions about other things.
[01:53:30.800 --> 01:53:33.800]  Callers, we have about five minutes left.
[01:53:33.800 --> 01:53:38.800]  If y'all want to call in and make some comments on topic, I know Priscilla has questions on
[01:53:38.800 --> 01:53:40.800]  other things, other issues.
[01:53:40.800 --> 01:53:41.800]  Priscilla, I'm sorry.
[01:53:41.800 --> 01:53:43.800]  If you could call back in, perhaps tomorrow night.
[01:53:43.800 --> 01:53:46.800]  We only have a few minutes left.
[01:53:46.800 --> 01:53:54.800]  Callers, if you would like to speak with Chris or James or Eddie or myself or Randy about
[01:53:54.800 --> 01:53:58.800]  these issues, please call in and make some comments.
[01:53:58.800 --> 01:54:01.800]  Randy, where do you see all this headed?
[01:54:01.800 --> 01:54:09.800]  How can we get some justice here for the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing and Jesse Trinadue
[01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:15.800]  from, you know, his brother being murdered and the family of Terrence Yakey and Janie
[01:54:15.800 --> 01:54:16.800]  Coverdale, all these people?
[01:54:16.800 --> 01:54:23.800]  I mean, in a way, it seems like there's more confounding, hardcore evidence surrounding
[01:54:23.800 --> 01:54:24.800]  the Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:54:24.800 --> 01:54:29.800]  It seems like it was much more of a mess, in other words, regarding the trail of evidence
[01:54:29.800 --> 01:54:31.800]  left behind than 9-11.
[01:54:31.800 --> 01:54:34.800]  It seems like we should be able to do something about this.
[01:54:34.800 --> 01:54:36.800]  What can be done, Randy?
[01:54:36.800 --> 01:54:42.800]  Well, when you have everyone in government totally corrupt, it's really hard to get
[01:54:42.800 --> 01:54:44.800]  government to move.
[01:54:44.800 --> 01:54:51.800]  But I'm looking at the next two or three years as being extremely hard times for the
[01:54:51.800 --> 01:54:53.800]  United States.
[01:54:53.800 --> 01:54:57.800]  But then again, it's an awakening.
[01:54:57.800 --> 01:55:02.800]  Well, see, Randy, I mean, there was the Oklahoma City bombing commission that released the
[01:55:02.800 --> 01:55:03.800]  final report.
[01:55:03.800 --> 01:55:07.800]  I mean, obviously, there are people in government, at least at the state level, that want to
[01:55:07.800 --> 01:55:08.800]  do something.
[01:55:08.800 --> 01:55:15.800]  Can lawsuits or criminal charges somehow be brought maybe into state court over this?
[01:55:15.800 --> 01:55:18.800]  Look at what's happened in the past.
[01:55:18.800 --> 01:55:22.800]  They're not going to stop spending our tax money to stop us.
[01:55:22.800 --> 01:55:28.800]  Well, and I think maybe we move from trying to get justice to just stand on the fact that
[01:55:28.800 --> 01:55:30.800]  we're not going to go away.
[01:55:30.800 --> 01:55:33.800]  We're not going to give up on the message, and we're going to let the people know.
[01:55:33.800 --> 01:55:37.800]  That's the only way that we're going to get anything out of this is to continue to educate
[01:55:37.800 --> 01:55:39.800]  people about the situation.
[01:55:39.800 --> 01:55:41.800]  That's what I started to say.
[01:55:41.800 --> 01:55:48.800]  And when I try to help people and they get in these bad situations and just one bad thing
[01:55:48.800 --> 01:55:54.800]  happens and another and another and another, the ones that win are the ones that never
[01:55:54.800 --> 01:55:57.800]  quit.
[01:55:57.800 --> 01:56:01.800]  The bad guys just keep pressing and pressing and pressing, and then one day they just throw
[01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:03.800]  in the towel.
[01:56:03.800 --> 01:56:10.800]  The only way we're going to beat these people is to just never quit.
[01:56:10.800 --> 01:56:15.800]  Here's a quick example of how people think, well, they did a great job on this case.
[01:56:15.800 --> 01:56:17.800]  Just a very simple example.
[01:56:17.800 --> 01:56:23.800]  Within about, oh, I'd say about a day or two after there was a heavy rainstorm that evening
[01:56:23.800 --> 01:56:29.800]  of the bombing, which completely washed away any relevant forensic evidence, and info just
[01:56:29.800 --> 01:56:31.800]  simply wasn't there, folks.
[01:56:31.800 --> 01:56:32.800]  I mean, that's a fact.
[01:56:32.800 --> 01:56:34.800]  It's not even up for debate anymore.
[01:56:34.800 --> 01:56:41.800]  There was a team from the FBI lab that was flown in, and here's what was allegedly a
[01:56:41.800 --> 01:56:45.800]  piece of the plywood used on the box of the truck.
[01:56:45.800 --> 01:56:50.800]  This team came in with their spray cans with pink spray paint to mark out relevant evidence.
[01:56:50.800 --> 01:56:51.800]  Well, they did what they call overspray.
[01:56:51.800 --> 01:56:55.800]  They literally sprayed the evidence that they were going to analyze in the FBI lab.
[01:56:55.800 --> 01:56:59.800]  I mean, just a complete boondoggle, complete incompetence, and then they had the audacity
[01:56:59.800 --> 01:57:03.800]  to put it in a triple baggie, put it in a special carrier, and fly it back on a lirajet
[01:57:03.800 --> 01:57:05.800]  to Washington, D.C.
[01:57:05.800 --> 01:57:06.800]  Like it's even going to matter.
[01:57:06.800 --> 01:57:08.800]  That's how they were stumblebots.
[01:57:08.800 --> 01:57:10.800]  They literally weren't thinking.
[01:57:10.800 --> 01:57:14.800]  The chain of custody on the evidence that was even saved was horrendous.
[01:57:14.800 --> 01:57:17.800]  So anybody that thinks that we're just spinning our wheels, no.
[01:57:17.800 --> 01:57:20.800]  I mean, you've got to get back to the basics on this.
[01:57:20.800 --> 01:57:24.800]  I think I suspect they were thinking, and they were doing precisely what they had been
[01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:25.800]  directed to do.
[01:57:25.800 --> 01:57:26.800]  Absolutely.
[01:57:26.800 --> 01:57:27.800]  It was an intentional cover-up.
[01:57:27.800 --> 01:57:28.800]  Okay, listen.
[01:57:28.800 --> 01:57:30.800]  We've got about a minute and a half left.
[01:57:30.800 --> 01:57:31.800]  We're about to end the show.
[01:57:31.800 --> 01:57:32.800]  There is a caller on the line.
[01:57:32.800 --> 01:57:33.800]  No time to scream.
[01:57:33.800 --> 01:57:36.800]  Caller, what is your comment?
[01:57:36.800 --> 01:57:42.800]  What are your comments on what you've heard tonight?
[01:57:42.800 --> 01:57:44.800]  I'm sorry, the caller dropped off the line.
[01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:45.800]  Okay.
[01:57:45.800 --> 01:57:47.800]  Well, folks, we're about to the end of the...
[01:57:47.800 --> 01:57:48.800]  Go ahead, Randy.
[01:57:48.800 --> 01:57:50.800]  It was probably one of the reporters from our...
[01:57:50.800 --> 01:57:51.800]  Oh, absolutely.
[01:57:51.800 --> 01:57:52.800]  Okay, and...
[01:57:52.800 --> 01:57:54.800]  They thought of a question.
[01:57:54.800 --> 01:57:57.800]  All right, and callers, sorry, we're out of time.
[01:57:57.800 --> 01:58:00.800]  Tomorrow night...
[01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:01.800]  Well, here we go.
[01:58:01.800 --> 01:58:02.800]  He's back.
[01:58:02.800 --> 01:58:04.800]  Quickly, caller, what are your comments?
[01:58:04.800 --> 01:58:06.800]  Oh, Deborah?
[01:58:06.800 --> 01:58:07.800]  Yes, comments.
[01:58:07.800 --> 01:58:08.800]  We're at the end of the show.
[01:58:08.800 --> 01:58:12.800]  Hi, this is Gary King.
[01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:13.800]  Oh, hey, Gary.
[01:58:13.800 --> 01:58:14.800]  How are you doing?
[01:58:14.800 --> 01:58:15.800]  Good.
[01:58:15.800 --> 01:58:17.800]  You have a few seconds to make comments on Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:58:17.800 --> 01:58:18.800]  Oh, okay.
[01:58:18.800 --> 01:58:24.800]  Yeah, what I was wanting to say, I was hoping that everyone would watch the MSNBC special
[01:58:24.800 --> 01:58:28.800]  on Monday, April the 19th at 8 o'clock.
[01:58:28.800 --> 01:58:29.800]  Okay, let me interject, folks.
[01:58:29.800 --> 01:58:32.800]  That is a complete bunch of fun.
[01:58:32.800 --> 01:58:35.800]  It's based on a book that is complete garbage.
[01:58:35.800 --> 01:58:36.800]  Oh, crazy.
[01:58:36.800 --> 01:58:39.800]  Even the Ford embassy, the decency to watch it, it is garbage.
[01:58:39.800 --> 01:58:40.800]  All lies.
[01:58:40.800 --> 01:58:41.800]  It is.
[01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:45.800]  Say that because I played Tennessee Mike Bay's grandfather.
[01:58:45.800 --> 01:58:47.800]  Okay, he's an actor.
[01:58:47.800 --> 01:58:50.800]  All right, listen, folks, we are at the end of the show.
[01:58:50.800 --> 01:58:51.800]  We have to go.
[01:58:51.800 --> 01:58:53.800]  Tomorrow night, we are Change San Antonio.
[01:58:53.800 --> 01:59:21.800]  We are going to be discussing traffic issues with them and a ticket they got recently.
[01:59:21.800 --> 01:59:48.800]  We are going to be discussing traffic issues with them and a ticket they got recently.
[01:59:48.800 --> 01:59:58.800]  Thank you.