ROL_2009-09-04_16k_Hr1-2.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:09.520]  James Davis, the chief financial officer of the investment company owned by flamboyant
[00:09.520 --> 00:15.560]  billionaire Alan Stanford, pleaded guilty Thursday to charges stemming from a $7 billion
[00:15.560 --> 00:20.940]  fraud. Stanford pleaded not guilty in June to charges of fraud, money laundering and
[00:20.940 --> 00:26.840]  obstruction. Last spring, the media trumpeted Dick Cheney's challenge to release the CIA's
[00:26.840 --> 00:31.760]  torture memos saying they would show the Bush administration's torture program operated
[00:31.760 --> 00:37.440]  within the law and provided indispensable information. Since Monday when the CIA released
[00:37.440 --> 00:41.880]  most of the documents, there has been hardly a mention in the mainstream media that the
[00:41.880 --> 00:48.360]  CIA report largely contradicted what Cheney said. Scientists have just completed an unprecedented
[00:48.360 --> 00:54.040]  journey into the vast and little explored Great Pacific Ocean garbage patch, estimated
[00:54.040 --> 01:08.080]  to be twice the size of Texas. The website Refreshing News says forests of fake trees
[01:08.080 --> 01:13.160]  should be planted across the country to reduce the impact of climate change. According to
[01:13.160 --> 01:19.320]  a study by Britain's Institution of Mechanical Engineers, a single synthetic tree could capture
[01:19.320 --> 01:26.560]  10 tons of carbon dioxide from the air every day. Experts claim 100,000 of them would remove
[01:26.560 --> 01:31.680]  the carbon emissions of every car, truck and bus in Britain. The scientists argue that
[01:31.680 --> 01:37.720]  a single synthetic tree is thousands of times more efficient at absorbing CO2 than a real
[01:37.720 --> 01:44.280]  tree. The trees, which would each cost $25,000, would be coated with synthetic materials that
[01:44.280 --> 01:50.800]  absorb CO2, which would then be removed and stored underground in depleted oil and natural
[01:50.800 --> 01:57.520]  gas reservoirs. This study also called for pots of algae that absorb CO2 from the atmosphere
[01:57.520 --> 02:09.800]  to be used to line buildings. The algae could then be used as green biofuels for cars. Scientists
[02:09.800 --> 02:15.720]  have warned that breast cancer patients, given Tamoxifen, are four times more likely to develop
[02:15.720 --> 02:22.680]  a more aggressive tumor than those not prescribed the drug. A study over 1,000 patients found
[02:22.680 --> 02:28.000]  the estrogen-blocking drug reduced the risk of the most common easy-to-treat cancer recurring
[02:28.000 --> 02:34.180]  by 60 percent, but the chances of a rarer type not sensitive to the female hormone appearing
[02:34.180 --> 02:41.720]  in the opposite breast increased by an alarming 440 percent. Tamoxifen has been used to treat
[02:41.720 --> 02:46.480]  breast cancer for more than 20 years and has saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of
[02:46.480 --> 03:01.120]  women worldwide. The study confirms preliminary research published by the same team in 2001.
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[04:03.400 --> 04:25.840]  The Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech talk radio at its best.
[04:25.840 --> 04:54.400]  The Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech talk radio at its best.
[04:54.400 --> 05:09.160]  Alright. Why are you acting like a bloody fool? If you get hot, you must be cool. Ha ha!
[05:09.160 --> 05:16.440]  That seems to be the moral of the story for the last couple of days. Not going to mention
[05:16.440 --> 05:24.360]  any names. He knows who he is. Chuck it on this one, chuck it on that one. Yep, yep.
[05:24.360 --> 05:32.120]  He's got it coming to him. But first, tonight we have a very special guest, Mr. Chris Emery
[05:32.120 --> 05:40.720]  from Radio Free Oklahoma is going to join us and break some news, more revelations concerning
[05:40.720 --> 05:49.880]  the ties, the obvious, blatant, flagrant ties between 9-11 and Oklahoma City bombing. Chris,
[05:49.880 --> 05:54.760]  welcome to the show. Let's hear the goods. Thank you, Deb, and appreciate it. We'll keep
[05:54.760 --> 06:00.040]  this short and sweet. The articles we anticipate are going to be posted on Infowars.com and
[06:00.040 --> 06:05.520]  PrisonPlanet.com, hopefully right after the holiday. There's a source in Norman that I
[06:05.520 --> 06:09.680]  mentioned the name off break, but I'd rather keep it anonymous right now until the article
[06:09.680 --> 06:15.880]  does appear. Sure. He has received documents from a source on the East Coast, once again
[06:15.880 --> 06:20.760]  we're going to keep that nameless, from the 9-11 Commission report that this was never
[06:20.760 --> 06:25.520]  actually broken in the mainstream media and it's quite obvious why. The gist of the document
[06:25.520 --> 06:32.120]  is clear proof that Mohammed Atta and Zacharias Massawi, the 19th hijacker who was actually
[06:32.120 --> 06:37.760]  convicted on very frivolous, if not baseless, charges, he was mentally unstable at the very
[06:37.760 --> 06:43.000]  least and completely insane on the other end of the scale. But these two were actually
[06:43.000 --> 06:50.000]  flying at a private, not a private, but it's a smaller general service aviation airport
[06:50.000 --> 06:53.960]  in northwest Oklahoma City. Had nothing to do with Airman Flight School in Norman at
[06:53.960 --> 06:59.040]  the time. Now, about three and a half to four years ago, Airman Flight School was shut down
[06:59.040 --> 07:02.640]  and this was a quote, a very simple quote in a byline article in The Oklahoman, which
[07:02.640 --> 07:07.160]  is the state's largest newspaper based here in Oklahoma City, that clearly stated that
[07:07.160 --> 07:11.240]  Airman Flight School was shut down because of quote, unquote, lack of government funding.
[07:11.240 --> 07:17.320]  Huge red flag there. And there were some legitimate students coming through. A good majority of
[07:17.320 --> 07:24.240]  them, oddly enough, were from the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula and so forth. And
[07:24.240 --> 07:28.000]  just, I mean, that was just a matter of fact. We looked at the enrollment and the logs and
[07:28.000 --> 07:32.760]  so forth and a lot of them came from overseas. Okay, having said that, we know that Mohammed
[07:32.760 --> 07:39.240]  Atta did come through Oklahoma City in July and August of 2001. These are the months and
[07:39.240 --> 07:47.080]  weeks leading up to 2001. The story that broke last year by a former host that remained nameless,
[07:47.080 --> 07:53.080]  July 18 of 2008, myself, co-host Alan Vanden Heuwenhoff and Andrew Griffin broke the story
[07:53.080 --> 07:58.600]  to show that Atta was here with four of his accomplices five days before 9-11 occurred.
[07:58.600 --> 08:03.280]  They were here the Thursday and Friday before. Of course, 9-11 landed on Tuesday. And then
[08:03.280 --> 08:09.280]  the Saturday after 9-11, a fifth accomplice, who was the only hijacker that actually wore
[08:09.280 --> 08:14.240]  glasses at a goatee, was sighted at the same bar that Atta and his four accomplices were.
[08:14.240 --> 08:18.400]  Anyway, he's sighted the Saturday after, alive and well. Just, you know, four days after
[08:18.400 --> 08:22.720]  everything broke down. It was unbelievable. Well, this latest document was actually embedded
[08:22.720 --> 08:29.060]  in the nearly 500-page 9-11 commission report. And it was actually taken from the flight
[08:29.060 --> 08:34.120]  logs of this airport and the FBI field office here in Oklahoma City and the FBI office in
[08:34.120 --> 08:38.240]  Washington had full knowledge that these guys were actually flying airplanes in and out
[08:38.240 --> 08:44.720]  of Oklahoma City. It was unbelievable. Personal, small aircraft, twin-engine and single-engine
[08:44.720 --> 08:51.280]  aircraft. Now, the source is actually, has in possession by electronic document these
[08:51.280 --> 08:56.040]  particular papers from the report, came through a source out of the East Coast. And we're
[08:56.040 --> 08:59.680]  going to be vetting this and actually checking up on the context that we have here in Oklahoma
[08:59.680 --> 09:03.880]  City. What this does, the significance of this, and a lot of listeners say, OK, so what?
[09:03.880 --> 09:07.360]  These guys are dead. Number one, we don't know if they're actually dead. And that is
[09:07.360 --> 09:12.400]  a huge legitimate question mark. Question mark. Number two is that it completely throws
[09:12.400 --> 09:18.400]  a wrench in the official timeline of where these guys were, what Rumsfeld and Bush and
[09:18.400 --> 09:24.480]  Ashcroft at the time and all of the head cronies at the Pentagon were saying. Their testimony,
[09:24.480 --> 09:28.320]  their statements are completely false based on just what we have here in Oklahoma City.
[09:28.320 --> 09:32.880]  That's not even counting New York and the false stories that came out of the Pentagon
[09:32.880 --> 09:39.420]  as well as Shanksville, PA. So this is a major crux in their whole timeline. And we're very
[09:39.420 --> 09:44.600]  excited to have it because it dovetails perfectly with that citing not by one but two witnesses
[09:44.600 --> 09:49.160]  of these guys being here within five days before 9-11 occurred.
[09:49.160 --> 09:52.760]  Chris, amazing.
[09:52.760 --> 09:58.360]  Now, if I may, and I'm not going to take any more of your time. I'll just have a few more
[09:58.360 --> 10:01.400]  minutes. I know you've got a lot on your plate, but in the various presentations.
[10:01.400 --> 10:04.160]  Go ahead. Go ahead, Chris. Take your time.
[10:04.160 --> 10:08.760]  Various presentations that I've had the honor of making around the United States with Holland
[10:08.760 --> 10:13.400]  and others and eight different cities in a matter of two and a half years to have the
[10:13.400 --> 10:18.400]  audience understand. We try to have a kind of a local analogy, whether it be getting
[10:18.400 --> 10:22.800]  a relation to the size of the Myrrh Building, what happened here in Oklahoma City, or the
[10:22.800 --> 10:27.920]  distance and so forth, where these guys were, these meeting the perps from 9-11 and their
[10:27.920 --> 10:30.760]  counterparts as early as December of 94.
[10:30.760 --> 10:36.120]  We're talking almost a seven-year span of the terrorist cells going hot and going cold
[10:36.120 --> 10:41.520]  in Oklahoma City and Norman. Norman is the home of the University of Oklahoma. Over 43,000
[10:41.520 --> 10:46.520]  students there. It's, I believe, second only to the UT Texas, UT and Austin, and then Ohio
[10:46.520 --> 10:50.480]  State's right behind that. They run a close third as far as the size of enrollment. So
[10:50.480 --> 10:52.360]  we're not talking a small school.
[10:52.360 --> 10:58.880]  Big powerhouse in sports. Norman is 20 miles south of Oklahoma City, due south on I-35.
[10:58.880 --> 11:02.880]  It's about two and a half hour drive north of Dallas. Now, why would you have all of
[11:02.880 --> 11:07.880]  these guys hanging out in Norman and in Oklahoma City by chance? It's not by chance. It's
[11:07.880 --> 11:11.440]  by design. And how do we know this? It's because of the handlers and the people there. I believe
[11:11.440 --> 11:16.440]  observing them. Namely, George Tennant, good friend of David Bourne, who still serves as
[11:16.440 --> 11:20.040]  the president of the University of Oklahoma. David Bourne was a head of the Senate Intelligence
[11:20.040 --> 11:25.600]  Committee for many years. He actually brought, Tennant was, he was Tennant's, George Tennant's
[11:25.600 --> 11:31.520]  mentor. George Tennant had little to no qualification of being a secretary and then working his
[11:31.520 --> 11:35.920]  way up the committee and then into being the director of the CIA. It's astonishing to see
[11:35.920 --> 11:38.560]  that he even served as director of the CIA.
[11:38.560 --> 11:41.560]  And then, of course, we have, and a lot of people don't know about it, David Edger, who
[11:41.560 --> 11:45.640]  was a friend, continues to be a good friend of David Bourne, who was invited to actually
[11:45.640 --> 11:50.760]  teach on campus for six months in July of 2001. What just so happened, he was second
[11:50.760 --> 11:56.760]  in command to foreign intelligence and review for the CIA. He was the basically second in
[11:56.760 --> 12:03.760]  command jackal for the CIA in Argentina as early as 1973. He was head of actually monitoring
[12:03.760 --> 12:09.840]  Muhammad Atta's apartment in Hamburg, Germany, within a year before 9-11. And he claimed
[12:09.840 --> 12:15.280]  they had nothing to do and very little intelligence or nothing of significance, quote unquote,
[12:15.280 --> 12:19.480]  in his observation of Muhammad Atta. That turned out to be complete garbage.
[12:19.480 --> 12:24.480]  And now we have Edger, who's still teaching on campus. This guy was second in command
[12:24.480 --> 12:30.520]  of the CIA. He was in Santiago, Chile on September 11, 1973. That really sends chills up your
[12:30.520 --> 12:34.860]  spine when you realize the guy of that caliber and of that stature in U.S. intelligence is
[12:34.860 --> 12:39.920]  teaching on campus here and completely staying mum on what happened on 9-11. He's still here.
[12:39.920 --> 12:43.680]  These people are walking around the streets free. They're criminals. They should be indicted
[12:43.680 --> 12:47.520]  and thrown in federal prison, not only one for obfuscation, but a lying of covering up
[12:47.520 --> 12:53.440]  the facts of 9-11, which resulted in the brutal murder of over 3,300 people. They don't care.
[12:53.440 --> 12:56.840]  It's a normal day at the office for these guys, and it's absolutely outrageous.
[12:56.840 --> 13:01.440]  Oh, a normal day at the office. Absolutely. It's, you know, collateral damage. I mean,
[13:01.440 --> 13:03.640]  it's part of the whole psyop.
[13:03.640 --> 13:08.840]  Exactly. And I mean, it is real, people. It's real as you get up in the morning, you have
[13:08.840 --> 13:12.920]  breakfast, you put your pants on, you go to work for the day. That's exactly what these
[13:12.920 --> 13:18.640]  guys do. This is not, this is not pulp fiction. This is not out of a spy novel, spy novel
[13:18.640 --> 13:23.040]  or book or a James Bond movie. That's what these guys do day in and day out. And they
[13:23.040 --> 13:25.200]  get paid very well to do this.
[13:25.200 --> 13:32.720]  Very well. They get paid very well. This is what we're up against, people. All right.
[13:32.720 --> 13:35.640]  So anyway, we got to get serious about this.
[13:35.640 --> 13:38.520]  Just when you thought you heard everything and it couldn't get more bizarre, another
[13:38.520 --> 13:43.520]  revelation comes out like this. And it just, it just solidifies. It substantiates exactly
[13:43.520 --> 13:48.480]  we were, you know, putting together over the last six years. Andrew and I talked earlier
[13:48.480 --> 13:52.800]  today. He gave me the goods on it and told me what happened. And we're going to go ahead
[13:52.800 --> 13:57.200]  and let the, I guess the cards fall where they may and the names are going to be coming
[13:57.200 --> 14:02.200]  out. We're very proud to have the opportunity to have it come through on Infowars and Prison
[14:02.200 --> 14:06.360]  Planet. Hopefully they'll pick it up. They were consistent on doing similar stories last,
[14:06.360 --> 14:10.400]  the last two months. Andrew's, by the way, 13 articles by Andrew in the last year and
[14:10.400 --> 14:17.000]  a half on PrisonPlanet.com, Infowars.com and WhatReallyHappened.com. Those are huge, huge
[14:17.000 --> 14:24.880]  numbers. We're proud to at least help him in a small part with that. So that's my revelation.
[14:24.880 --> 14:29.840]  That's awesome, Chris. Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on and breaking
[14:29.840 --> 14:36.720]  the news. Guys, Eddie, Randy, what do y'all have to say about this? Well, all this never
[14:36.720 --> 14:40.360]  really matters to me because I was all in from day one after watching what happened
[14:40.360 --> 14:46.400]  when they fell down. I already know, and as well as the Oklahoma bombing, I've never one
[14:46.400 --> 14:52.360]  minute thought it was anyone outside. Let me put it that way. But this is proof, you
[14:52.360 --> 14:59.800]  know, evidence that we can use to start closing in on these guys. Go ahead. Yeah, closing
[14:59.800 --> 15:05.080]  in on them is one thing. Actually doing something with them when we get close. I'll let you
[15:05.080 --> 15:11.480]  and Michael Banerich handle that one. We've got a little bonus here, guys, if you don't
[15:11.480 --> 15:16.400]  mind. Go ahead. Sure, go ahead. A good friend of mine that's helping research with the Teriyaki
[15:16.400 --> 15:20.600]  case just stepped into the studio. And let me go ahead and turn up his headphones here
[15:20.600 --> 15:24.680]  real quick. Can you hear it all right, Joe? All right. We're doing soundtrack. We're live
[15:24.680 --> 15:30.200]  on the air right now. So Joe Cooley has been very instrumental helping out on this case
[15:30.200 --> 15:34.200]  for the last three and a half to four years. Any updates on the Teriyaki case that you
[15:34.200 --> 15:44.560]  want to offer, Joe? Well, you know, we're continuing to interview active as well as
[15:44.560 --> 15:50.240]  retired Oklahoma City police officers and others in the law enforcement community, people
[15:50.240 --> 15:56.840]  who would know, and taking other steps I can't talk about to secure information that we need
[15:56.840 --> 16:03.960]  that will help this whole thing come to light and fruition. There's sources of, I guess
[16:03.960 --> 16:07.720]  we can, we're not going to name names, but of course we have some folks that have volunteered
[16:07.720 --> 16:14.360]  their time both on the legal aspect, the forensic pathology aspect. And basically this thing
[16:14.360 --> 16:19.840]  is finally starting to gel. And we're going to do a fundraising drive here locally and
[16:19.840 --> 16:25.840]  hopefully over the internet here shortly. So that's where we are on that. You know,
[16:25.840 --> 16:30.760]  the long of it and story short of it is that we are not giving up. This guy was brutally
[16:30.760 --> 16:35.600]  murdered over 14 years ago. Actually, what are we looking at? Coming up in May will be
[16:35.600 --> 16:41.520]  14 years. And it's, you know, if it would happen to you or your loved ones, we would
[16:41.520 --> 16:45.520]  do the same thing because that's how much we care about you. There's a lot of, there's
[16:45.520 --> 16:50.000]  just the basic principle of respect and getting an answer for this family because you've been
[16:50.000 --> 16:55.160]  lying to all of these years. And something I'd like to say is I know that the last time
[16:55.160 --> 17:03.080]  we did a show on the Terry Yakey case, we had a caller called in and he asked, you know,
[17:03.080 --> 17:07.560]  why pursue this? You know, it was so long ago and what would be proved? And the whole
[17:07.560 --> 17:17.080]  point is that it helps to establish and maintain the transparency and accountability of our
[17:17.080 --> 17:22.680]  county municipalities, our state government, the federal government. So it's not just the
[17:22.680 --> 17:27.640]  past, it's the present and the future that we're looking at. And as long as these kinds
[17:27.640 --> 17:33.160]  of things continue, it's a very serious roadblock because in this case, it's contract murder
[17:33.160 --> 17:40.000]  of a law enforcement officer whose only crime was trying to be a decent, honest human being.
[17:40.000 --> 17:43.440]  Yeah, but you know, here again, I'm putting in context, we're going to wrap this short
[17:43.440 --> 17:46.080]  and we've got one of the members of the bombing committee that came in.
[17:46.080 --> 17:49.800]  Yeah, don't worry, Chris, y'all don't have to hurry up. I mean, this is great.
[17:49.800 --> 17:54.120]  We don't want to take your thunder from you. No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, listen, please
[17:54.120 --> 17:58.840]  go ahead. We were on the air for four more, four hours on Friday nights. Chris, please.
[17:58.840 --> 18:03.080]  Just for the sake of the audience in Austin and anybody else listening in Minneapolis
[18:03.080 --> 18:07.840]  or South Bend, imagine your current police chief, whoever he is. And we know Art Acevedo
[18:07.840 --> 18:12.160]  in Austin, two police chiefs before him, who was the, who stepped, who worked before him
[18:12.160 --> 18:15.800]  and then the one before that. If all three of those individuals completely ignored the
[18:15.800 --> 18:20.920]  brutal torture and murder of a seven-year veteran of the police force, it just happened
[18:20.920 --> 18:24.600]  to be a minority. But that's not, we're not even, that's not even an issue here. But the
[18:24.600 --> 18:28.360]  fact is if the family was lied to, they were treated with disrespect, weren't even given
[18:28.360 --> 18:32.040]  a ride to the funeral, treated with disdain and harassed for over two and a half years
[18:32.040 --> 18:39.280]  after the case and after Terry was buried and, you know, put to rest. What would, what
[18:39.280 --> 18:42.520]  would you think? Would you, would you say that, you know what, that's okay, we can walk
[18:42.520 --> 18:45.600]  away from this. We'll just turn out the light, shut the door and walk out of the room.
[18:45.600 --> 18:49.240]  No, we're not. That's not the way it's going to happen here. And it shouldn't happen anywhere
[18:49.240 --> 18:53.560]  in the United States like that. And to sit down with the grandmother and the mom, and
[18:53.560 --> 18:57.920]  he's met the sisters and the mom, and to sit down with them and look in their eyes and
[18:57.920 --> 19:01.560]  say, you know, you've got a 93-year-old grandmother, Joe and I were over at their house about four
[19:01.560 --> 19:05.680]  weeks ago. You sit down with the aunts and the relatives of Terry. And to this day, they
[19:05.680 --> 19:10.520]  know that, you know what, there's a huge bone to pick here. There are people that need to
[19:10.520 --> 19:14.560]  be held accountable and they're not going to sit down. They're not going to take no
[19:14.560 --> 19:18.400]  for an answer. And we're going to find out what happened to this.
[19:18.400 --> 19:27.540]  The indication so far is that we, we can't prove that we suspect that the federal agencies
[19:27.540 --> 19:33.280]  were involved in a contract murder here and that they, they have individuals that do this
[19:33.280 --> 19:38.040]  for a living, that are retired, that are in an organization that does that. A lot of people
[19:38.040 --> 19:45.160]  find it very difficult to fathom that and to believe that. But when you research this
[19:45.160 --> 19:50.080]  case and they put you under surveillance, I mean, it just tells the whole story. People
[19:50.080 --> 19:56.280]  act very strange when it comes to this case. We've had attorneys who initially agreed to
[19:56.280 --> 20:03.320]  handle certain aspects of this case that backed out unexpectedly with no explanation and
[20:03.320 --> 20:09.960]  seemed somewhat fearful. So obviously, the Teriyaki case will open up a lot of sores
[20:09.960 --> 20:15.840]  in the state and federal government. He had some kind of information that was just deadly
[20:15.840 --> 20:23.360]  to have. It may have been that he had a camera with him and he took pictures all the time.
[20:23.360 --> 20:27.400]  I mean, he had a camera with him every place he went and he may have gotten a photograph
[20:27.400 --> 20:33.560]  of a charge that was set inside of the building that didn't go off. Wow. You know, it could
[20:33.560 --> 20:38.520]  have been something else. We don't know, but we do know that he was under surveillance
[20:38.520 --> 20:44.360]  by federal agents in the week before he was killed and he was very fearful. And he was
[20:44.360 --> 20:51.560]  killed on federal land too? Well, we don't know if he was killed. They found him on federal
[20:51.560 --> 20:58.280]  land. Right. He was in a vehicle off federal land on, I think it was Frontage Road and
[20:58.280 --> 21:02.840]  his wrists were cut, his throat was cut, he was beat up, his cheekbones were broken. And
[21:02.840 --> 21:08.520]  of course, he ended up with a contact wound, entry wound on the right temple and an exited
[21:08.520 --> 21:13.680]  on the lower left cheek. So it entered the head at about a 45 degree angle from the upper
[21:13.680 --> 21:18.720]  right and truly unusual. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm missing something here. I thought
[21:18.720 --> 21:25.000]  that Terry Yakey was found like a half a mile in the woods. Now you're saying he was found
[21:25.000 --> 21:28.720]  in the car on the Frontage Road? Chris, what's going on here? No, no, no. What happened was
[21:28.720 --> 21:36.840]  he was in the car and there was blood all over the car, okay, inside the car. And then
[21:36.840 --> 21:43.040]  there was a blood trail apparently from the car under a culvert. And then from there there's
[21:43.040 --> 21:48.480]  a, I believe it's a barbed wire fence at the time and then a field and they found him way
[21:48.480 --> 21:54.800]  out in that field in a supine position with a gunshot wound. It was a little over a mile
[21:54.800 --> 22:00.000]  and a quarter away from the car. A mile and a quarter and they said it was a suicide.
[22:00.000 --> 22:05.320]  We talked to a, actually through a third party, a former ME of a county not far from here
[22:05.320 --> 22:09.560]  who's going to remain nameless because he's really helped out a lot. He said that number
[22:09.560 --> 22:13.840]  one Terry was anemic and the amount of blood that was lost in the vehicle, he would have
[22:13.840 --> 22:17.020]  gone no more than 20 feet. His heart would have stopped. He would have simply had not
[22:17.020 --> 22:21.880]  enough blood pressure to function. His muscles, he would have gone into spasm and collapsed.
[22:21.880 --> 22:25.440]  Why in the world has he found over a mile and a quarter away from his car sitting in
[22:25.440 --> 22:29.560]  a supine position against a tree? This doesn't make any sense. If they killed him in the
[22:29.560 --> 22:35.200]  car, why didn't they just leave him in the car and try to make it look like a suicide
[22:35.200 --> 22:40.960]  for real? Why did they drag him after the fact? These people were so sick that committed
[22:40.960 --> 22:44.880]  this crime. There is no logic. There is no sense of reason. There is no train of thought
[22:44.880 --> 22:51.880]  that you and I would even be able to comprehend. Well, there's also the possibility they wanted
[22:51.880 --> 22:56.160]  to send a message that to anyone else who had knowledge of the events, this could be
[22:56.160 --> 23:04.160]  you. Yeah, but just killing him and leaving him in the car is the same. Oh, I see Eddie.
[23:04.160 --> 23:13.720]  They didn't want to make it look like a suicide. It was a psyop to send a message to all the
[23:13.720 --> 23:20.200]  rest of the Oklahoma PD and anyone else that knew anything that this is going to be you
[23:20.200 --> 23:26.080]  if you speak up. That's right. And then they just write on the official report that it's
[23:26.080 --> 23:32.600]  a suicide. Like it's in your face. They obviously brutally murdered the guy and then they ruled
[23:32.600 --> 23:39.520]  the death of suicide just for the sake of the books, but they show what really happened.
[23:39.520 --> 23:44.080]  Like hanging a dead coyote on the tree to keep the rest of them away. Right. As Chris
[23:44.080 --> 23:49.080]  pointed out, Chris said something that was very important about the fact that Terry had
[23:49.080 --> 23:54.920]  anemia. So that means if you have a large loss of blood, you just can't, you can't go
[23:54.920 --> 23:59.040]  that distance. And so I was very specific. And as was Chris, when we questioned the family
[23:59.040 --> 24:04.720]  about how much blood was there in that vehicle Ford probe and it was soaked, it was just
[24:04.720 --> 24:09.280]  blood all over the place. And that's why I, we both questioned the family. We wanted to
[24:09.280 --> 24:14.120]  be very specific on that point. So it's just improbable that he could, could go out like
[24:14.120 --> 24:22.680]  that. There was an unusual, uh, wound and there was, um, no staration of the wound and
[24:22.680 --> 24:28.920]  Craig Roberts, the gunshot wound to the head. So that the only way that could happen would
[24:28.920 --> 24:35.280]  be if the, you know, a sound suppressor also known as a silencer was used on a handgun
[24:35.280 --> 24:41.000]  of the police never revealed what type of handgun was used. But we do know that same
[24:41.000 --> 24:47.680]  day they had gained entrance into his apartment in Southwest Oklahoma city to retrieve a weapon.
[24:47.680 --> 24:52.340]  Not once, but they came back again twice. His mom, his mom told us about that on the
[24:52.340 --> 24:55.760]  air when she came on the air. Yeah. That was a heck of an integral effect. I was trying
[24:55.760 --> 24:59.640]  to find that archive a couple of days. We were supposed to have her on a July of last
[24:59.640 --> 25:04.840]  year and Pat Shannon came on and I think she came on the middle of the end of August. I've
[25:04.840 --> 25:08.720]  got to go through the archives. That was amazing, Chris. It was, it was the first time she ever
[25:08.720 --> 25:14.240]  spoke on the media about this. It was, it was quite a, quite a show, but, uh, long story
[25:14.240 --> 25:17.880]  short is we're not going to quit. Uh, VZ, like I said, has been working on this case
[25:17.880 --> 25:22.080]  longer than we have and he's here in studio. We want to say hello, VZ. You got to come
[25:22.080 --> 25:27.080]  up closer, come up closer. There you go. There you go. Full city survivor out of the Murr
[25:27.080 --> 25:32.600]  belly. Wow. And I have a question from, uh, one of the other hosts on this network, uh,
[25:32.600 --> 25:38.400]  Steve Skidmore, he's at, he wants me to ask if they found Terry's wife. I didn't know
[25:38.400 --> 25:42.200]  if she was missing. He says, is she still missing? He had the understanding she was
[25:42.200 --> 25:46.480]  missing for a while. Was she missing? Is she still missing? What's up with that guys? No,
[25:46.480 --> 25:52.920]  as a matter of fact, she, uh, that's Tanya Yakey and, uh, she, she wasn't missing. As
[25:52.920 --> 25:56.560]  a matter of fact, she did a, an interview on a radio program that can be accessed on
[25:56.560 --> 26:02.560]  the internet that talked about the, the strange things that went on during and after the body
[26:02.560 --> 26:09.680]  bombing and everything that Terry went through. Uh, they tried to get him to change his report
[26:09.680 --> 26:14.280]  on the bombing. And there's another officer, a retired officer we spoke to who went through
[26:14.280 --> 26:19.980]  the same thing. They got, they tried to get him to change the wording and, and substance
[26:19.980 --> 26:28.080]  of his report, uh, which is just a total deviation from police protocol. I mean, they may correct
[26:28.080 --> 26:32.480]  the grammar or something like that. We're talking about changing the very substance
[26:32.480 --> 26:39.360]  and essence of the report. And so this is a very disturbing and it's just a form of
[26:39.360 --> 26:46.440]  manipulation and obfuscation, uh, you know, characteristic of the local and the federal
[26:46.440 --> 26:50.520]  police. If any of your listeners want to get a better coverage of this, uh, where I do
[26:50.520 --> 26:56.240]  what's going on, startpage.com, which does an infinite better job than Google, startpage.com,
[26:56.240 --> 27:01.200]  just type in the name, Terrence, Y-E-A-K-E-Y. You will come up with an incredible cache
[27:01.200 --> 27:05.960]  of information, including the press release that we submitted to the, the local media
[27:05.960 --> 27:10.640]  here. And Alex was kind enough to post to Prison Planet back in May of 2006. It was
[27:10.640 --> 27:14.440]  a Monday afternoon. We had the 10 year anniversary. Joe was instrumental in helping us set that
[27:14.440 --> 27:19.680]  up. The following August had the first ever meeting with the, uh, Oklahoma state medical
[27:19.680 --> 27:23.560]  examiner's office and the family. And it was quite a heart wrenching meeting. There were
[27:23.560 --> 27:28.680]  over 18 of us there and the mom and the, the aunt and the two sisters and one of the nieces,
[27:28.680 --> 27:34.840]  I believe, in addition to 12 others, um, anyway, they're about 18, 19 of us. Um, and it was
[27:34.840 --> 27:39.720]  amazing that the ME's office had no idea what happened, why the family was treated the way
[27:39.720 --> 27:44.120]  they were. And we're pursuing getting used to, it was a longer form. Now it's a one page
[27:44.120 --> 27:47.720]  form to actually release the records from the ME's office and to get a judge to sign
[27:47.720 --> 27:51.800]  that order. The next step would be to exhume the body. And then we can't go into any further
[27:51.800 --> 27:56.160]  detail, but I'll tell you what, there's, there's going to be hell to pay on this. There are
[27:56.160 --> 28:00.080]  people that are going to go to jail. That's not a threat. That's a promise. And we know
[28:00.080 --> 28:05.160]  who we're going to go after. If I could on the press conference that was held that Chris
[28:05.160 --> 28:10.760]  set up at the, in the parking lot of the Oklahoma city police department, we had a big picture
[28:10.760 --> 28:16.200]  of karaoke. The family was there. VZ Lawton, who worked for her, who was inside of the
[28:16.200 --> 28:23.600]  building when the explosives plural went off. Uh, there was a Oklahoma city reporter there
[28:23.600 --> 28:30.920]  who was taken aside and was harassed by the public information officer and another captain
[28:30.920 --> 28:34.720]  with the police department asking what, why was he doing this? And in essence, the bottom
[28:34.720 --> 28:39.280]  line was they told him to just pretty much move on down the road, you know, and he would
[28:39.280 --> 28:46.120]  just standing there just to cover it. And here they are badgering him. Um, so anyway,
[28:46.120 --> 28:49.800]  that's, uh, that's the latest between nine 11 and still the ghost from Oklahoma city
[28:49.800 --> 28:54.840]  that just refused to go away. Um, but we're, we're fighting the good fight just like you
[28:54.840 --> 28:59.040]  guys do every day. And we were very inspired by your show and the people that call in the
[28:59.040 --> 29:03.680]  people that listening, because that's what really gives us the, I think the inspiration
[29:03.680 --> 29:08.240]  and the, and the drive to keep going on. Oh guys, y'all are just doing excellent work.
[29:08.240 --> 29:13.000]  I mean, I'm so happy and proud, thankful to have y'all on the network. I mean, y'all,
[29:13.000 --> 29:18.040]  y'all have done so much excellent work for so many years. I mean, I remember when I first,
[29:18.040 --> 29:22.280]  the first time I met you, Chris, it was that, uh, the conference here in Austin, when Steve
[29:22.280 --> 29:28.280]  Jones came and broke the news about the thermite being in the paint and all that. And you and
[29:28.280 --> 29:33.840]  Holland gave that, that wonderful presentation. And you talked about the documentary and I
[29:33.840 --> 29:38.760]  was like, man, I hope I get to meet that guy, you know, and I like barely said hi. It was
[29:38.760 --> 29:43.120]  true. And then I barely got to meet you for a few seconds. And now we're like best friends.
[29:43.120 --> 29:47.040]  It's so awesome. Well, listen, thanks guys. I appreciate you. Well here, stay on the line
[29:47.040 --> 29:50.640]  Chris, cause I want to get VZ up when we get back on the other side. You got it. He's right
[29:50.640 --> 29:58.320]  here. All right. We'll be right back.
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[30:59.520 --> 31:20.920]  And everywhere I hear the sound of more than just the people. Cause summer's here and the
[31:20.920 --> 31:31.920]  vibe is the steeple and the way they seem to be diagnosed by the people. Check me for
[31:31.920 --> 31:36.920]  Don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me
[31:36.920 --> 31:41.920]  Don't think for half my life
[31:41.920 --> 31:51.920]  No
[31:51.920 --> 32:00.920]  Hey, think the time is right for a violent revolution
[32:00.920 --> 32:10.920]  From where I live the game is playing out for my solution
[32:10.920 --> 32:15.920]  Don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me
[32:15.920 --> 32:44.920]  Don't think for half my life
[32:45.920 --> 32:55.920]  Don't think for half my life
[33:15.920 --> 33:20.920]  Don't tell me, don't tell me
[33:45.920 --> 33:50.920]  Don't tell me
[34:15.920 --> 34:20.920]  Don't tell me
[34:45.920 --> 34:50.920]  Don't think for half my life
[35:15.920 --> 35:20.920]  Don't think for half my life
[35:45.920 --> 36:12.920]  Well, there's nothing for them to uncover, they already know.
[36:12.920 --> 36:24.920]  Yeah, but they have an obligation, they've got a duty, a moral duty and a constitutional duty, they've sworn oath to come forward and do something about it.
[36:24.920 --> 36:36.920]  So anyway, this whole story of 9-11, you thought you heard the cock and bull story here, I mean it's in spades with 9-11, and you and I, and most of the listeners know that's true.
[36:36.920 --> 36:45.920]  This latest deal with National Geographic, they were a little more balanced than they used to, normally were in the past, but there were still some huge gaping holes in the storyline with them.
[36:45.920 --> 36:57.920]  And why they chose to do that, I guess, you know, that's our prerogative, but it's our prerogative to say, you know what, not only are you guys wrong, you're completely off base, and here is the truth, and here's what we're basing the truth on.
[36:57.920 --> 37:18.920]  This is VZ talking, let me pass something on to you here that may have been put out over the airways here and may not have, but a few months ago, Terry Nichols, who's in the Federal Correctional Center out in Colorado,
[37:18.920 --> 37:41.920]  asked Jesse Trinadue, brother of Kenneth Trinadue, who was murdered here in the Federal Transfer Center, asked Jesse Trinadue to come out to the correctional facility that he was in to maybe represent him in some pellet procedures.
[37:41.920 --> 37:57.920]  And Jesse went out there and he spent a day and a half with Terry Nichols, and during that day and a half, Terry Nichols told him that one day he and McVeigh were talking, McVeigh kind of let it slip that he was working for the FBI, that Larry Potts was his handler,
[37:57.920 --> 38:15.920]  Larry Potts was the number two man in the FBI, one that had issued the change in the rules of engagement at Ruby Ridge that allowed Lon Horiuchi, the West Point graduate who was the sniper for the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation,
[38:15.920 --> 38:38.920]  that blew Vicki Weaver's head off standing in the doorway of her home with her one-year-old baby in her arms. This is something that has never gotten out into the major media, and Jesse Trinadue is trying to get it into a court of law where he can bring it
[38:38.920 --> 38:55.920]  to the attention of the media, and the government is fighting him tooth and nail, and so far he's not been able to get it out there, but Jesse Trinadue is an ex-Marine, he's a bulldog, and I don't think you're going to see him thwarted.
[38:55.920 --> 38:59.920]  I think that he will eventually get this information out into the public arena.
[38:59.920 --> 39:13.920]  Kurt Nemo did a great job on Alex's website earlier this week, I think he came out on Tuesday, actually reviewing, we've got one of the documents, this is a 63-page document from the CIA, declaration of Martha M. Lutz, who was an information review officer.
[39:13.920 --> 39:23.920]  In no uncertain terms, she came out on this document and said, hey, you know what, I'm just doing my job. Yes, there were documents here that were so sensitive, we couldn't even give you the blank documents.
[39:23.920 --> 39:39.920]  That's how outrageous, that's how insidious, and that's how tight and deep the CIA was in the Oklahoma City bombing. They can't even reveal documents that are blank, and that's completely over the top, and this information officer just flat out said that in a deposition.
[39:39.920 --> 39:50.920]  I mean, she just pretty much said, that's what I'm paid to do, and Jesse Trinadue got it down in black and white. He scans all these documents he gets, put it out in PDF format, and they go viral on the internet within hours.
[39:50.920 --> 40:02.920]  So this is what we're dealing with people, to help you put it in perspective. They don't care about human life if they have to cover their sources and their inside moles. They don't care, they're not going to tell you the truth.
[40:02.920 --> 40:03.920]  Except for their own lives.
[40:03.920 --> 40:17.920]  Exactly. You guys want to take a look at that. But anyway, so the march goes on, I guess, as Howard Harmon-Taylor says, onward through the fog. You've just got to keep focused and try to keep a sense of direction.
[40:17.920 --> 40:30.920]  Terry Nichols has very little to do with this case. We see all the proof that's coming out. He has nothing absolutely to gain and everything to lose by wanting to go on record. The Bureau of Prisons won't even let him be videotaped, right, D.Z.?
[40:30.920 --> 40:49.920]  Well, so far, the federal judge there in Salt Lake City, where Jesse Trinadue is located, has given him permission, though, to go down to the prison and do exactly what the government is telling him he can't do.
[40:49.920 --> 41:05.920]  I don't know where it stands right now, but if he has his way, he will do a total investigation in that area.
[41:05.920 --> 41:07.920]  I've got a mural at the house. It's a 6x9.
[41:07.920 --> 41:08.920]  That would be awesome.
[41:08.920 --> 41:17.920]  Yeah. I mean, you guys would have a field day on these documents. I've got to bring at least the second and third copies of the sets I have and bring them down and let you go through them.
[41:17.920 --> 41:28.920]  We have the originals and some of the other sets stored away. We have 37 different locations, three safe houses with us, so we're not scared about anybody breaking in. What are they going to do? Find our clothes and a roll of toilet paper. Big deal.
[41:28.920 --> 41:39.920]  You know, they can have all the fun they want, but it's a dollar short and a day late for these guys. We're ahead of the curveball. We're ahead of them by four steps, and we know exactly what they've done, and we're going to go after them.
[41:39.920 --> 41:50.920]  With the limited resources we have, we're going to continue to go after an illegal, very ethical, and very forthright matter, and we're going to see. I don't care if they're 90 years old. We're going to put some of these guys in jail.
[41:50.920 --> 41:58.920]  I mean, that's just you have to send a message. You pull something like this off, you're not going to get away with it, period.
[41:58.920 --> 41:59.920]  Anyway, so...
[41:59.920 --> 42:01.920]  No, you can't get away with it.
[42:01.920 --> 42:02.920]  Nope.
[42:02.920 --> 42:07.920]  You just can't go around doing things like that and get away with it.
[42:07.920 --> 42:12.920]  I think that this Madoff is a good example of that.
[42:12.920 --> 42:13.920]  Right.
[42:13.920 --> 42:19.920]  On that Bernie Madoff, which is called the Swindler's List, is the nickname now. He's naming names.
[42:19.920 --> 42:24.920]  Yeah, he's an old man, but he's going to prison. He's going to be there the rest of his life.
[42:24.920 --> 42:33.920]  Yeah, you've got to remember, these people tend to operate in this area kind of like Nixon used to put it. If the president does it, it's not illegal.
[42:33.920 --> 42:40.920]  Well, they're taking it because we're government. If we do it, it's not illegal. We can do it because it's necessary.
[42:40.920 --> 42:49.920]  Or because we perceive it to be necessary to serve our immediate ends, and that's a whole different thing.
[42:49.920 --> 42:54.920]  There he is is what I would like to see, sticking up out of the ground so I can park my bicycle.
[42:54.920 --> 42:58.920]  This is the problem with the commercial...
[42:58.920 --> 43:08.920]  When we talk about the implausibility of some of the explanations by the federal government about what happened in downtown Oklahoma City,
[43:08.920 --> 43:14.920]  I'd sort of like to defer to Chris to talk about the chemistry of ammonium nitrate.
[43:14.920 --> 43:20.920]  And VZ knows it all too well. This is astonishing. I'll never forget the morning, and this is a good segue, Joe.
[43:20.920 --> 43:26.920]  I've got the call board up here, too, so I'm watching your time, and you let us know when you need us to sign off. We don't want to take...
[43:26.920 --> 43:29.920]  No, go ahead, hey!
[43:29.920 --> 43:31.920]  This story is full of...
[43:31.920 --> 43:39.920]  Hey, have at it, guys. This is great. I'm like, I'm fixing to put some popcorn in the microwave, man. I'm having a great time here.
[43:39.920 --> 43:43.920]  Geez, all we want is a five-minute story and look what happens.
[43:43.920 --> 43:47.920]  Oh, man. Y'all are welcome to stay on as long as you want. This is great.
[43:47.920 --> 43:50.920]  All right, we'll be right back. We're going to break. This is the rule of law.
[43:50.920 --> 43:57.920]  Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Craig, Chris Emory, and his special guest. We'll be right back.
[43:57.920 --> 44:00.920]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
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[45:19.920 --> 45:32.920]  Alright, we're finally on our own, it would seem.
[45:32.920 --> 45:38.920]  Four dead in Ohio, Oklahoma, many, many more, New York.
[45:38.920 --> 45:44.920]  Soldiers are gunning us down, man. It's happening. They're blowing up our buildings to the government.
[45:44.920 --> 45:47.920]  They're killing us. They want to kill more.
[45:47.920 --> 45:53.920]  All their COINTELPRO and their disinfo and their lies and the cover-ups and the PSYOPs.
[45:53.920 --> 45:58.920]  We're closing in on them. It's not going to last. We're going to take our country back.
[45:58.920 --> 46:02.920]  So, Chris, go ahead. You were starting to tell us something on the break.
[46:02.920 --> 46:05.920]  We'll go back real quick to Terry Icky's funeral.
[46:05.920 --> 46:10.920]  Now, Terry, of course, morning of the bombing, he was the first police officer pulled up in a black and white.
[46:10.920 --> 46:19.920]  He's issuing a traffic ticket five blocks away at the Music Center City Hall, City Music Hall, which is five blocks west of where the Burr Building was.
[46:19.920 --> 46:24.920]  And just completely, in fact, we talked to the gal that he was going to issue a ticket to. He just left.
[46:24.920 --> 46:29.920]  He dropped his ticket book and got in the black and white and sped up to the bombing site, pulled out eight people.
[46:29.920 --> 46:35.920]  And one of his best friends that he actually was on the opposite side of one of the rescue gurneys,
[46:35.920 --> 46:41.920]  we've got a picture of it taken within hours after the bombing. These guys have blood all over their uniforms.
[46:41.920 --> 46:44.920]  That, his buddy, what was his name, this big muscle?
[46:44.920 --> 46:46.920]  His name is Barry McCary.
[46:46.920 --> 46:49.920]  Yes. And he shows up. Go ahead, Joe, relay the story on that.
[46:49.920 --> 46:55.920]  Yeah. Well, Barry McCary was Terry Icky's best friend at the police department.
[46:55.920 --> 47:01.920]  Of course, in 1990, they had a big move to hire minorities. This is what was going on in 1990.
[47:01.920 --> 47:10.920]  But he showed up at Terry's funeral and then left the state immediately. He was afraid to talk to anybody.
[47:10.920 --> 47:15.920]  However, the Icky family told me that down at the police station, they sort of crossed paths.
[47:15.920 --> 47:21.920]  And he told the sister, I believe, that there was something that he wanted to tell her.
[47:21.920 --> 47:28.920]  But apparently, he was really terrorized and he left the state and he hasn't talked to anybody.
[47:28.920 --> 47:34.920]  Now, I know another one of his friends that worked with the police department, who is also a close friend of Terry,
[47:34.920 --> 47:41.920]  who met with Mr. McCary down in the southern part of the state and they had a nice lunch and they were talking.
[47:41.920 --> 47:45.920]  And this friend of mine asked him, he said, what do you think happened to Terry?
[47:45.920 --> 47:50.920]  This guy looked scared to death. He left the lunch and turned around and just walked out.
[47:50.920 --> 47:55.920]  And this was somebody that he had known since high school, like just best buddies.
[47:55.920 --> 48:01.920]  What would instill that kind of fear in terror in someone?
[48:01.920 --> 48:05.920]  Well, the feds. Who else could do it?
[48:05.920 --> 48:11.920]  This goes way beyond anybody operative. I mean, you just don't do this to your own in the police department.
[48:11.920 --> 48:15.920]  So that's, you know, when you go back, you reverse engineer this thing.
[48:15.920 --> 48:21.920]  Yeah. And Chris, usually, I mean, Randy's always saying about the thin blue line, the thin blue line.
[48:21.920 --> 48:26.920]  It takes a lot to get them to cross that thin blue line.
[48:26.920 --> 48:34.920]  And for the entire police department to just totally abandon it and cover it up, you know,
[48:34.920 --> 48:43.920]  they were under major, major pressure by intelligence agencies and feds and the COINTELPRO and who knows who all else,
[48:43.920 --> 48:48.920]  CIA, NSA, the whole nine yards.
[48:48.920 --> 48:55.920]  Well, we do know that there were agencies that actually we didn't even know existed that were involved in the investigation
[48:55.920 --> 48:59.920]  of the Oklahoma City bombing. Whether or not they were complicit in the cover up, we don't know.
[48:59.920 --> 49:04.920]  But I mean, these guys are coming out of the woodwork and it's like, who in the world are you and where did you come from?
[49:04.920 --> 49:10.920]  It was that blatant and that black and white. Spooks doesn't even do justice to who these guys were.
[49:10.920 --> 49:17.920]  It was insane. We have no idea what their work was until we had some other people, private investigators
[49:17.920 --> 49:20.920]  and allies of ours that said, look, this is what these guys work for.
[49:20.920 --> 49:24.920]  That's why they were here investigating. And this is what they do on a daily basis.
[49:24.920 --> 49:28.920]  And it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up straight when you realize that it got that bad.
[49:28.920 --> 49:32.920]  It wasn't to disgruntled GIs blowing up an anvil bomb in front of the truck.
[49:32.920 --> 49:40.920]  This is a worldwide operation and the professionals that showed up within four hours on 14 C-21 Lair jets at Tinker Air Force Base.
[49:40.920 --> 49:47.920]  OK. What? That's huge. Yeah. Yeah, they were they flew in. That was it was something else.
[49:47.920 --> 49:55.920]  This is an international deal. This is this is an orchestrated, organized effort between the intelligence agencies of many different countries.
[49:55.920 --> 50:00.920]  Well, a lot of them were in the United States. We do know. Yeah, it was RCMP.
[50:00.920 --> 50:06.920]  There was a security detail for a we can't name the name. It was a very powerful family overseas.
[50:06.920 --> 50:11.920]  U.S. Marshals Office, Scotland Yard and my five knew what was going on.
[50:11.920 --> 50:17.920]  There was prior intelligence shared FBI flat foot just got called cold caught on this thing.
[50:17.920 --> 50:23.920]  They got caught flat footed and they were basically humiliated, embarrassed and they just had to cover their tracks.
[50:23.920 --> 50:28.920]  Go ahead, Joe. Yeah, I wanted to say, too, as all of you know, as all of your listeners,
[50:28.920 --> 50:35.920]  it's alleged that Mr. McVeigh drove up in a rider truck and he had an ammonium nitrate bomb.
[50:35.920 --> 50:38.920]  Now, Chris has uncovered some very interesting things.
[50:38.920 --> 50:44.920]  You have to remember that this bomb was ostensibly made at a place called Gary Lake up in Kansas.
[50:44.920 --> 50:48.920]  I think we drove by there and took pictures, took pictures, very safe fishing lake.
[50:48.920 --> 50:59.920]  Yeah. Now, Chris, tell them what the big gaping hole is in the story about mixing ammonium nitrate with diesel fuel, the myths versus the realities.
[50:59.920 --> 51:08.920]  The magic number is 28 people. And this was given to me by the ringleader of four people that pulled off the caper at three forty nine in the morning.
[51:08.920 --> 51:15.920]  August 20, 1970 in downtown Madison on the University of Wisconsin campus blew up half of the math research building,
[51:15.920 --> 51:20.920]  which actually they had designed the blueprint, the chemical blueprint for Agent Orange.
[51:20.920 --> 51:25.920]  And there were some pissed off students. Now, mind you, in May of that year, you had Kent State, the murders there.
[51:25.920 --> 51:29.920]  Nashville Guard gunning down the students. This was in August of that same year.
[51:29.920 --> 51:33.920]  And the ringleader sat across from me in a sandwich shop in Madison.
[51:33.920 --> 51:41.920]  It was on the second year anniversary of 9 11 flew from up here up to Madison, met with him twice in a matter of three weeks.
[51:41.920 --> 51:43.920]  And he says the magic number is twenty eight.
[51:43.920 --> 51:51.920]  And he scribbled it out on his legal pad and he says, Chris, you have 28 minutes when you mix and fall within 28 minutes to blow it up or else it just turns.
[51:51.920 --> 51:56.920]  It's like blowing up mud. It will do nothing except make a mess in the vehicle that you have.
[51:56.920 --> 52:01.920]  And he says, you sure about that? And he says, yes, we've tested this thing before the Madison caper.
[52:01.920 --> 52:09.920]  They tested it in a rock quarry about 35 miles northwest of Madison many times on just a regular weekday when it was deserted.
[52:09.920 --> 52:13.920]  They cased the place out. They knew when the authorities were going to be there.
[52:13.920 --> 52:18.920]  Usually the county sheriff's office would do rifle shooting out there sightings.
[52:18.920 --> 52:25.920]  Anyway, they knew when it was going to be deserted. They tested this out and they blew this bomb off in Madison within 23 minutes.
[52:25.920 --> 52:31.920]  They had a five minute window. He had military training in the army for bombs, munitions and all of that.
[52:31.920 --> 52:38.920]  He served in the U.S. Army. His demolition experience was limited, but he knew the rudimentary basics of what to do.
[52:38.920 --> 52:45.920]  And it was from that point that I said, OK, how do you get an amphibomb from Geary Lake, which is 220 miles away from here,
[52:45.920 --> 52:53.920]  over ramshackle beat up country roads? And that was attested by an expert that used to deal with IRA bombings in Northern Ireland.
[52:53.920 --> 52:58.920]  He says, you go over a bad road with an amphibomb, you're going to blow yourself up as well as a truck. There's not going to be anything left.
[52:58.920 --> 53:04.920]  So this whole storyline the FBI is offering us, I mean, Mother Goose would do better justice in this stuff.
[53:04.920 --> 53:09.920]  It was so off the wall and completely out of line. It just they're insulting our intelligence.
[53:09.920 --> 53:20.920]  And another glaring inconsistency is this. All of you, all of the listeners I'm sure are aware that the FBI said the way they were able to locate McVeigh was from when the vehicle,
[53:20.920 --> 53:26.920]  the writer truck was blown up. They got some information from the rear axle of the vehicle.
[53:26.920 --> 53:30.920]  Now, I think they said originally it was a VIN, a vehicle identification number.
[53:30.920 --> 53:39.920]  And all of us that own vehicles know that where the VIN number is printed on your vehicle, it's in the left windshield on the dashboard.
[53:39.920 --> 53:46.920]  Right. And there is no and this was the writer truck is manufactured in the continental United States.
[53:46.920 --> 53:53.920]  And no vehicle manufacturing this country has a VIN or a vehicle identification number on the rear axle.
[53:53.920 --> 53:56.920]  And Chris, you can add some things there about what is there.
[53:56.920 --> 54:03.920]  At the time, it was what we found out. It was actually a part number for a support bracket for the one of the suspension springs on the course.
[54:03.920 --> 54:10.920]  You had duallys on the back of this truck. And I don't know if we still see some of them driving around the streets today.
[54:10.920 --> 54:15.920]  It's an 18 foot box. You get a six foot cabin in your engine carriage in front of that.
[54:15.920 --> 54:19.920]  But it ended up being a the number that the FBI was touting.
[54:19.920 --> 54:23.920]  And it took a local OCPD officer to correct the guys. He's pulled them aside pretty much.
[54:23.920 --> 54:26.920]  He said, look, guys, you're way off base on this. Let me tell you what we can do.
[54:26.920 --> 54:31.920]  And it took the OCPD officer to correct the agents with the FBI and what to look for.
[54:31.920 --> 54:37.920]  But, you know, that's indicative of how this whole investigation, it started off bad and it just went downhill after that.
[54:37.920 --> 54:41.920]  But with a part number, you can't trace it to an individual.
[54:41.920 --> 54:47.920]  Right. There were 62,000 of those brackets made that year and they were actually installed in other trucks besides Ford's.
[54:47.920 --> 54:52.920]  It's like identifying somebody by a generic pair of Converse tennis shoes. It doesn't make any sense.
[54:52.920 --> 54:56.920]  So, I mean, that's, guys, we're not exaggerating.
[54:56.920 --> 55:00.920]  I mean, that's how that was the best that they could offer at the beginning of the investigation.
[55:00.920 --> 55:09.920]  It just slowly got worse from there. Corruption of evidence, no chain of custody, exposing the infamous crater in front of the building to torrential rains for over nine hours
[55:09.920 --> 55:14.920]  and having it completely filled with water and saying, you know what, this is where we're getting our forensic evidence from.
[55:14.920 --> 55:19.920]  And it's like, you've got to be kidding me. Come on, guys, you're the FBI. And this isn't what Chris is talking about.
[55:19.920 --> 55:27.920]  It's very important for all the people to understand that this isn't conjecture. This isn't speculation. This isn't fantasy.
[55:27.920 --> 55:34.920]  What he's talking about is cold, hard facts about you have, what, 28 minutes to set off the ammonium nitrate bomber. It won't work.
[55:34.920 --> 55:43.920]  It's inert material and you can't trace, use a part number and trace it to an individual who rented a truck. You just can't do that. That's a fact.
[55:43.920 --> 55:50.920]  Yeah, the part number. You're right. The VIN number would have been on the contract. And that thing will anywhere you turn.
[55:50.920 --> 55:56.920]  The only thing that was consistent with the official story, guys, was the fact that there were 169 people that were brutally murdered,
[55:56.920 --> 56:02.920]  several thousand that were severely injured mentally and physically. That's the only correct assertion the FBI has.
[56:02.920 --> 56:08.920]  Everything else on this thing, 72 different lies we caught them on. They're lying so much they can't even keep track of their own lives.
[56:08.920 --> 56:16.920]  They're stumbling over themselves. And it's like, you know what? Stop embarrassing yourself, guys. Just sit up straight, act like adults, tell us what happened.
[56:16.920 --> 56:21.920]  And we're going to bring the people who are responsible this accountable for their work, whether it be good or bad.
[56:21.920 --> 56:28.920]  And it was the whole thing was suspicious from the very beginning. At the time of the bombing, I recall I had a next door neighbor who was with Special Weapons and Tactics,
[56:28.920 --> 56:36.920]  SWAT with the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Department. And we were talking about it. And he was very puzzled why McVeigh,
[56:36.920 --> 56:42.920]  when stopped by Charlie Hanger, would allow himself to be taken into custody.
[56:42.920 --> 56:51.920]  And at that time, before anything was mentioned about conspiracy, my neighbor said, there's something wrong here. It just doesn't make sense.
[56:51.920 --> 56:58.920]  He had two full clips, including the one in his revolver. It was a nine millimeter Glock. Get this, guys. If that isn't strange enough, guess who Charlie Hanger?
[56:58.920 --> 57:07.920]  He's on the actual Board of Governors for the Fusion Center here in Oklahoma City that works closely with the OSBI, the FBI and the Homeland Security.
[57:07.920 --> 57:13.920]  He's the golden child. The red carpet has been rolled out and snapped and vacuumed clean for this guy everywhere he's walked. It's unbelievable.
[57:13.920 --> 57:22.920]  And also, I think, Chris, you uncovered or mentioned something about the fact that with the highway patrol, Hanger was out of his jurisdiction that day.
[57:22.920 --> 57:28.920]  It was his day off. He was 62 miles out of his precinct. And it was his day off. Yes. So anyway.
[57:28.920 --> 57:35.920]  And why was he the only highway patrol car moving away from Oklahoma City that day instead of coming towards it?
[57:35.920 --> 57:44.920]  That's right. We knew. In fact, there's a source up there and I can't reveal the name, but we pretty much got the goods on Charlie Hanger, too.
[57:44.920 --> 57:49.920]  I mean, it just everything was upside down and what he was supposed to do that day, completely, completely out of protocol.
[57:49.920 --> 57:59.920]  And it's reminiscent of the case in the Kennedy assassination of why Officer Tippett was where he was because he was way out of his jurisdiction and area also.
[57:59.920 --> 58:01.920]  Sure. Anyway, so we can go on and on.
[58:01.920 --> 58:11.920]  Guys, please go on and on. I'm reeling here. I mean, I've heard a lot of this before, but it's just like I love to keep hearing it and there's more details coming out.
[58:11.920 --> 58:19.920]  Like you said, Chris, Mother Goose could have done a better job with this. I mean, they just give it up. Just give it up, guys.
[58:19.920 --> 58:28.920]  I mean, they're so cold, hard busted. It's unbelievable. They left so many trails. They left so many footprints. It's like they didn't even try.
[58:28.920 --> 58:30.920]  Well, thank you for having us on.
[58:30.920 --> 58:38.920]  No, stay on. Stay on. I want to hear more. I want to talk about Eric Holder and how he's involved in the Oklahoma City bombing cover up, too.
[58:38.920 --> 58:44.920]  Our attorney general, Eric Holder, he that's what talk about laying out the red carpet.
[58:44.920 --> 58:48.920]  This is how people get into top levels of government these days.
[58:48.920 --> 58:53.920]  You cover up big false flag events like Oklahoma City bombing.
[58:53.920 --> 58:59.920]  You get to be the U.S. attorney general general.
[58:59.920 --> 59:02.920]  I got to tell you one thing right now. Texas is a terrible place.
[59:02.920 --> 59:11.920]  Oh, I can't think. It's a terrible state. I mean, it looks like a tumor. When it has nothing to do with Texas, it's people and organizations like the loony libertarians, what are they called?
[59:11.920 --> 59:13.920]  Oh, Texas for Cerebral Insanity.
[59:13.920 --> 59:15.920]  No, no. Texas for Accountable Schmoozy.
[59:15.920 --> 59:18.920]  Texas for Accountable Government. There you go. We would never do anything to promote them in any way.
[59:18.920 --> 59:24.920]  Never do any radio public service announcements, especially when they got this party coming up this Friday at 7 p.m.
[59:24.920 --> 59:26.920]  Oh, yeah, with Jimmy Vaughn?
[59:26.920 --> 59:27.920]  Yeah, Jimmy Vaughn's going to play the part.
[59:27.920 --> 59:32.920]  Yeah, I don't know. It's Texas blue stuff, I mean. You mean like Billy Joel or Bon Jovi if you like the hard stuff.
[59:32.920 --> 59:39.920]  Now you're talking. Now you're talking. So whatever you do, don't show up to the United States Auditorium's Spider House Cafe this Friday at 7 p.m.
[59:39.920 --> 59:41.920]  Tell me where it is so I don't go there.
[59:41.920 --> 59:44.920]  It's 510 West 29th and Fruits.
[59:44.920 --> 59:45.920]  Fruits?
[59:45.920 --> 59:46.920]  Fruits.
[59:46.920 --> 59:50.920]  Well, I'm about to tell you something. They want 20 bucks at the door? If I could say Fruits 10 times fast, they should let me in for free.
[59:50.920 --> 59:54.920]  Oh, those cheap skates. Whatever you do, don't go to TechTexas.org for more info.
[59:54.920 --> 59:57.920]  I'll definitely not.
[01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:32.920]  Forget sounds good.
[01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:38.920]  Forget, I'm not sure I could.
[01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:44.920]  They say time heals everything.
[01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:48.920]  But I'm still waiting.
[01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:53.920]  I'm true.
[01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:56.920]  Oh, this is great, guys.
[01:00:56.920 --> 01:01:00.920]  This is awesome. Totally spontaneous, totally unplanned.
[01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:07.920]  Chris was producing the Agenda 21 show tonight and we decided to have him on for a few minutes.
[01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:16.920]  He wanted to break a couple of stories and VZ and Joe, VZ Lawton and Joe Cooley were down the street and Chris called him on the break and said, hey, why don't you guys come over?
[01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:21.920]  And this is just awesome. So, Joe, you wanted to get into talking.
[01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:38.920]  Well, we're going to go into Eric Holder, I guess, next, but not after Joe, after you wanted to talk about there are other victims here besides just Terry Yakey that, you know, were brutally murdered over this whole thing.
[01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:46.920]  The U.S. prosecutor, Joe. Yeah, there was a girl in Tulsa who was a bar hostess at a liquor establishment.
[01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:59.920]  She saw Mr. McVeigh in the company of a Middle Eastern man or men and she ended up dead under mysterious circumstances and apparently there was an autopsy that was inconsistent with the alleged cause of death.
[01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:09.920]  Also, there's the case of Ted Allen Richardson, who was a deputy U.S. prosecutor for the Western District of Oklahoma. He worked for Pat Ryan.
[01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:23.920]  He was investigating some Middle Eastern people who were seen in the presence of McVeigh for HUD fraud and Mr. Richardson was a very respected prosecutor.
[01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:34.920]  He got it with a 12 gauge shotgun at point blank range in his vehicle and he was found in the parking lot of the church in downtown Oklahoma City.
[01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:48.920]  Now, what's really unusual there, there was also no autopsy and people are asking, I talked to a friend of his, he said, how do you fire a shotgun at point blank range in your car and kill yourself and leave absolutely no powder burns on your hand?
[01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:57.920]  Good question, you know. They said that he killed himself with a shotgun. They said it was a suicide. Yeah.
[01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:07.920]  It's very suspicious because he was working on the Middle Eastern connection, but Pat Ryan took him off of that, that whole case, even though that was his specialty, for no reason.
[01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:20.920]  And after that, he was found dead. Interestingly enough, one of the guys that we mentioned earlier, Deb, where this ties in, that's still walking the streets here in Oklahoma City.
[01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:28.920]  And we pretty much got the MO on the guy. That's one of the guys Anderson was actually investigating and he was about ready to break.
[01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:33.920]  He was about ready to kick the door open on that part of the case and they found him dead in the front seat of his car.
[01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:39.920]  And then, of course, there's also the case of an Oklahoma City physician. Chris is familiar with this case.
[01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:51.920]  Dr. Chumley, who was at the scene of the bombing and the ATF agents tried to persuade him to give them bandages so it would appear as though they were injured when they weren't.
[01:03:51.920 --> 01:03:53.920]  So he ended up dead.
[01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:56.920]  Wait, why would they want to make him appear to be injured?
[01:03:56.920 --> 01:04:00.920]  Well, to garner sympathy and to make it look as though they were in the building when they weren't.
[01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:05.920]  Oh, yes. They're heroes. They're such heroes.
[01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:06.920]  Exactly.
[01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:08.920]  Please give me a break.
[01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:18.920]  If you rewind the tape on the time frame on this thing, actually, we found out and Terry Nichols revealed that McVeigh was actually supposed to blow the building up at nine o'clock at night, but he wanted a body count, quote unquote.
[01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:25.920]  And that's when we think that Larry Potts pretty much told him to go medieval on this thing, to really go sour and to go after body count.
[01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:29.920]  I mean, there's no other reason why McVeigh would do that unless he's been given orders.
[01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:34.920]  We also found out that McVeigh did, he was trained by special forces, various elements of.
[01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:39.920]  In fact, he was so secret on the training that the FBI lies track of him for three months.
[01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:43.920]  You really, really got to go deep up for the FBI not to know where you are for three months.
[01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:50.920]  So anyway, we know what the time frame was and where he was within that time frame, at least for three or four days.
[01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:56.920]  And of course, there's talking about pre-knowledge, the fact that the government had pre-knowledge of the bombing.
[01:04:56.920 --> 01:04:59.920]  Chris, tell them about the roadblocks they had set up the night before.
[01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:02.920]  That's the whole time frame on this. It looks like we've got a caller. I don't know if you want to.
[01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:06.920]  No, go ahead to the roadblocks.
[01:05:06.920 --> 01:05:07.920]  OK, nine o'clock at night.
[01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:09.920]  We'll take Kitty in a minute.
[01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:13.920]  The between, from what I read in David Hoffman's book, we found that it was accurate.
[01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:19.920]  We did vet this through some of the former Oklahoma County sheriffs and a few OCPD officers retired.
[01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:23.920]  About four miles west of downtown, there's the fairgrounds.
[01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:28.920]  And it comes off of Interstate 44, which will eventually go toward the turnpike to Tulsa.
[01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:31.920]  And heading due east on that toward downtown is 10th Street.
[01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:34.920]  It's a main artery to go right down by St. Anthony's Hospital.
[01:05:34.920 --> 01:05:36.920]  And you have a cul-de-sac or the turnabout there.
[01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:45.920]  All right. On that 10th Street, you had Oklahoma County sheriffs who were actually helping with the roadblocks to actually bottleneck this traffic that was going downtown.
[01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:52.920]  The ATF and the Oklahoma County sheriffs in tandem were doing random vehicle checks just to see if they could.
[01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:58.920]  This thing operation was actually going hot at two o'clock in the morning before the bombing, up till about six a.m.
[01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:01.920]  At about six fifteen, they said, OK, everybody stand down.
[01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:07.920]  They're starting to take their gear off, kind of relaxing, have a coffee and they disperse and they're going back to their stations.
[01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:10.920]  What happens at nine oh two? All hell breaks loose downtown.
[01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:14.920]  Some of the guys are still down there. They see bomb squad trucks show up immediately.
[01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:17.920]  Some of these guys are wearing their ride gear and so forth.
[01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:20.920]  And what do they call it? VDUs?
[01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:26.920]  And it takes. And this is the thing that Officer Yakey said that these people just came out of nowhere.
[01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:29.920]  And, you know, people saw that morning to put that stuff on.
[01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:31.920]  Oh, yeah. They were there in full gear.
[01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:35.920]  And they gave a lot of different stories about the ATF, about where they were and what they were doing.
[01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:43.920]  But Officer Yakey found it unusual that these ATF agents in full gear showed up just minutes after the bombing out of nowhere.
[01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:46.920]  And he thought to himself, where the hell did these people come from?
[01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:48.920]  They obviously knew ahead of time.
[01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:54.920]  And they had dogs out there the morning of the bombing before nine sniffing all over the place.
[01:06:54.920 --> 01:07:00.920]  See, look, this is the standard MO of what these guys do.
[01:07:00.920 --> 01:07:14.920]  They will run either drills or set up some kind of sting operation at the same time or the day before or all around the same time to confuse the lower level law enforcement.
[01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:22.920]  That's what the whole compartmentalization principle is of how they work, these false flag ops.
[01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:31.920]  Question for VZ real quick. The week before the bombing, Jane Graham attested, this is the people from the YMCA across the street, that there was an evacuation of the building.
[01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:35.920]  I mean, there were folks out in the street. Michael, which is named the.
[01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:36.920]  The street blogger?
[01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:41.920]  No, the gentleman that was on the bus the morning of the bombing said the city bus rocked twice.
[01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:42.920]  I love who you're talking about.
[01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:47.920]  He was in he was living in the YMCA at the time and he was a complete evacuation of all the buildings the week before the bombing.
[01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:49.920]  They were going through a dry run just to anticipate.
[01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:51.920]  Just like 9-11.
[01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:52.920]  It's crazy.
[01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:59.920]  We had a same thing that happened in our office there at HUD the week before the building blew up.
[01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:01.920]  You were on the eighth floor.
[01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:04.920]  I was on the eighth floor. They emptied the building.
[01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:12.920]  We went out to our assigned spaces that we were supposed to stay in until we were called back in and called back in.
[01:08:12.920 --> 01:08:14.920]  Nobody said anything about that.
[01:08:14.920 --> 01:08:23.920]  It might be a bomb go off in the building or outside the building shortly thereafter.
[01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:29.920]  When they evacuate the buildings like that, like a week or two ahead of time, that's when they're doing their prep work.
[01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:36.920]  Also, VZ, I wanted to ask a question. I believe you had told me a story about a woman that was teaching a computer class.
[01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:38.920]  Jean Graham was up there on the ninth floor.
[01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:40.920]  Up there. They thought there was an earthquake.
[01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:45.920]  You talk about the timing between one explosion and the second explosion.
[01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:49.920]  Could you elaborate on that?
[01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:51.920]  I play handball with a lot of different people.
[01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:58.920]  I play with a couple of different FBI agents and talk to them about the bombing a little bit.
[01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:20.920]  They were telling me that when I said that I was sitting there at my desk signing papers that morning and felt the building start shaking and all of a sudden the bomb went off.
[01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:31.920]  The building was already coming down before the truck bomb went off. Something hit me in the back of the head and knocked me out before the truck bomb ever went off, so I didn't hear that.
[01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:45.920]  See, it's just like what happened with the 9-11 and Eddie Rodriguez and his friend Felipe were in the basement and the bombs were going off in the basement before the jets hit.
[01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:49.920]  They were ripping the support columns, you're right.
[01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:55.920]  When I was talking to the FBI agents and telling them the story, they said, well, you probably just imagined some of that stuff.
[01:09:55.920 --> 01:10:00.920]  You got hit in the back of the head and you weren't really real alert.
[01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:04.920]  They were trying to debrief you. That's called debriefing.
[01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:14.920]  Well, what I told them, though, was I said, you know, you might be right about me, but how about the young lady that was teaching the class up on the ninth floor that morning when she felt the building start shaking?
[01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:21.920]  She told the class that it's an earthquake, everybody under the table. They were all under the table before the truck bomb went off.
[01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:26.920]  Yeah, we have 14 people in different parts of the building doing the same thing. Your mind responds.
[01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:32.920]  These people, you probably would have been impaled by glass if you weren't knocked out and fallen on the floor.
[01:10:32.920 --> 01:10:34.920]  And I hate to think of that.
[01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:39.920]  I still got a piece of glass in my head that every now and then it tries to come out.
[01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:44.920]  But, you know, it's like the film crew and we've talked about this before off air.
[01:10:44.920 --> 01:10:52.920]  You reverse engineer, you reconstruct a crime scene and we're talking 15 to 18 blocks around where the perps were before, during and after the bombing.
[01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:59.920]  Some of them stuck around. They were so arrogant, they actually stuck around to ask some of the survivors, including McVeigh and one of his accomplices.
[01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:08.920]  And then he just casually got in his, you know, beat up yellow marquee and hauled the mail up the interstate and Charlie Hanger pulls him over.
[01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:13.920]  Who happens to be 62 miles out of this precinct? None of this is making any sense.
[01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:22.920]  So anyway, as far as Eric Holder, I want to touch on Dr. Chumley real quick and then we can go to Eric Holder. Dr. Chumley, go ahead, easy.
[01:11:22.920 --> 01:11:32.920]  Let's talk just a little bit about the joke. The whole FBI story is a joke.
[01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:34.920]  Yeah, it's a cruel joke.
[01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:39.920]  But let's use this story to define it.
[01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:44.920]  You know what the difference between unlawful and illegal is?
[01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:52.920]  Well, unlawful is something that's against the law and illegal is a sick bird.
[01:11:52.920 --> 01:12:06.920]  This is the story of what the FBI is trying to tell us, the whole thing's a joke as far as I'm concerned. What they're telling me is not what I experienced.
[01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:12.920]  Anyway, we go on. Dr. Chumley was actually head of the Broadway Clinic at 18th and Broadway.
[01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:18.920]  Broadway is one block, actually half a block west east of the Murrah Building and 13 blocks north.
[01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:26.920]  So you're looking about 13 and a half blocks away. He heard the explosion and immediately as a medical doctor realizes something horribly wrong happened.
[01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:30.920]  By instinct, he wants to set up triage for any of the walking wounded survivors.
[01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:39.920]  His son relayed the story to me about three and a half years ago and his son actually took over the clinic after his dad was tragically killed in a single engine plane accident.
[01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:41.920]  But we'll go into that in just a second.
[01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:48.920]  Dr. Chumley pulls up his Ford Esquire station wagon, backs it up to the rear door of the clinic and throwing everything in.
[01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:55.920]  Bandages, sutures, chemical, mercurochrome, anything to get his hands on that you think would be useful at the center.
[01:12:55.920 --> 01:13:03.920]  Goes down to the crime scene. Who walks up to him before he gets any of the survivors? Two of the ATF officers in full BDUs, full battle gear.
[01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:12.920]  They're taking it off. They get the street clothes on under this and they're asking him to put on what they call mercurochrome or whatever makes you look like you have fake blood on your skin.
[01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:15.920]  Wrapping ace bandages around their hands and putting them in arm splits.
[01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:20.920]  And he looked at both of them and pretty much verbally flipped them off and says, you know what, I don't work like that.
[01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:24.920]  I got the Hippocratic Oath. I'm a doctor. You want to have somebody else do that, go ask somebody else.
[01:13:24.920 --> 01:13:30.920]  Tick these two guys off. They walked off. And he went to his business. He was helping a lot of survivors.
[01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:39.920]  Now that's on April of 95. In August of 95, he goes on an antelope hunting trip to New Mexico. Accomplished single engine pilot. Very good. Very conscientious.
[01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:45.920]  Instrument trained. And he goes over, does his hunting, comes back, two hops. Okay.
[01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:57.920]  He comes from basically west of Albuquerque, about an hour and a half, refuels in Albuquerque, hops over to Amarillo, lands at a general services strip there, not too far from the air base, and refuels.
[01:13:57.920 --> 01:14:06.920]  And the guy remembers who he was. He was the attendant of the gas pump there. Gets up at about 6,000 feet coming from Amarillo into Oklahoma City.
[01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:16.920]  Actually lived in Guthrie, about 20 miles north of here. 6,000 feet over Shamrock, Texas. Now that's about 30 miles west of the Oklahoma-Texas border.
[01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:22.920]  Right in the, just on the eastern side of the Panhandle. Drops out of the sky like a rock into a potato field.
[01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:33.920]  I mean, obviously he didn't survive. There was no chance of him doing that. The county sheriffs investigate that case. They take the wreckage of the plane back to the facilities and say, you know what, there was nothing wrong with this plane.
[01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:40.920]  They found out that somebody had jimmied with the wire, the chromium wire that went back to the rudder on the back of the plane. Just got lost all control.
[01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:43.920]  Yeah, the control wire going back to the elevator.
[01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:44.920]  They sabotaged the plane?
[01:14:44.920 --> 01:14:54.920]  Somebody with a corrosive agent sabotaged that wire. That's what they think. And these guys, I mean, the county sheriffs over there, I mean, they have to figure out. You've got a plane falling in the sky in your county. You've got to figure out what's going on.
[01:14:54.920 --> 01:14:59.920]  Now here's the weird thing about it. Go ahead. Last thing and then I'll shut up and get you on here, Joe.
[01:14:59.920 --> 01:15:10.920]  The gentleman that actually manned that fueling station outside of Amarillo said that by procedure, by the book, the FAA has to come within 10 days of the accident to take a fuel sample to find out there's anything wrong with the gas.
[01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:14.920]  He has set aside the prescribed 10 gallons of gas in a special container.
[01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:23.920]  This jet fuel, not jet fuel, but plain fuel. And nobody came by, not for 10 days, not for 10 weeks, not for six months.
[01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:32.920]  And it got so corrupt and it just basically was still sample. He had to dump it. He had to go to the fuel dump where they do the oil dumps and throw it out.
[01:15:32.920 --> 01:15:39.920]  Nobody from the FAA came by and investigated that. He said that never happened in the 28 years he's been running that fuel station.
[01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:46.920]  And why is it I think about JFK Jr. when you talk about that? Exactly. That's a whole nother story. Yeah, it's just crazy.
[01:15:46.920 --> 01:15:54.920]  Now also, Dr. Chungley and Terry Yeke were good friends and they shared a safety deposit box.
[01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:59.920]  This is what happened. Terry Yeke was his patient. Yes, he was his patient. And I confirm this.
[01:15:59.920 --> 01:16:07.920]  Downtown Oklahoma City at a bank and they had information about the bombing they had collected and will continue to collect in this safety deposit box.
[01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:12.920]  They got this safe deposit box together after the fact. And they also had one in Kingfisher.
[01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:18.920]  And the FBI came in, badged their way in, called a conspiracy Batman. I mean, you know.
[01:16:18.920 --> 01:16:22.920]  What, the FBI confiscated the contents of the box?
[01:16:22.920 --> 01:16:30.920]  You've got somebody getting paid $8.50 an hour at a bank teller station, the FBI walks in and badges their way in. What are you going to do, tell them no?
[01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:37.920]  This is a lesson. Word to the wise, don't put anything in safe deposit boxes. They're obviously not safe.
[01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:45.920]  You put something in a safe deposit box, just know you're just handing it over to the government, OK? Just give it to them.
[01:16:45.920 --> 01:16:52.920]  That's what safe deposit boxes. All right, listen, guys, we're going to break. We'll be back on the other side. This is awesome.
[01:16:52.920 --> 01:17:05.920]  You feel tired when talking about important topics like money and politics? Are you confused by words like the Constitution or the Federal Reserve?
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[01:18:16.920 --> 01:18:29.920]  We were born before the wind, also younger than the sun.
[01:18:29.920 --> 01:18:39.920]  The bonnie boat was one as we sailed into the mystique.
[01:18:39.920 --> 01:18:51.920]  When I hear the sailors cry, smell the sea and feel the sky.
[01:18:51.920 --> 01:19:02.920]  Let your soul and spirit fly into the mystique.
[01:19:02.920 --> 01:19:14.920]  And where that foghorn blows, I will be coming home.
[01:19:14.920 --> 01:19:21.920]  And when the foghorn blows, I want to hear it.
[01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:32.920]  I don't have to fear it. I just say so.
[01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:55.920]  I'm looking around me and I'm finding that they're my peers and closest friends now.
[01:19:55.920 --> 01:20:07.920]  And so that's a wonderful experience to have these wonderful people around me like Chris and Randy and now Eddie and Holland and all the other wonderful hosts on this network.
[01:20:07.920 --> 01:20:10.920]  So we're going to go to Kenny in California right now.
[01:20:10.920 --> 01:20:15.920]  He has a couple of comments to make and then we're going to go back to our guest talking about Dr. Chumlee.
[01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:18.920]  Kenny, thanks for calling in. What's your comment?
[01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:20.920]  Hey, how are you guys?
[01:20:20.920 --> 01:20:22.920]  Hey, Kenny, how are you doing this evening?
[01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:23.920]  I'm pretty good, pretty good.
[01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:26.920]  I was just going to touch base a little bit on what you're talking about.
[01:20:26.920 --> 01:20:37.920]  I had several years ago, it's probably been about four years ago, I had been to a little seminar type thing, a little rally type deal where a – you probably heard of this guy,
[01:20:37.920 --> 01:20:43.920]  an ex-FBI field agent by the name of Ted Gunderson was there speaking about this very subject matter.
[01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:46.920]  Yes, he's done some pretty good work and he's got a lot of respect for Mr. Gunderson.
[01:20:46.920 --> 01:21:00.920]  Yeah, it was a very interesting talk that he put on and he basically stated a lot of the same things that you're stating here today about what went on with that particular bombing incident.
[01:21:00.920 --> 01:21:08.920]  And he also said that it wasn't a nitrogen fertilizer bomb, he said it was something else.
[01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:17.920]  He named off the substance and he talked a bit about Nichols and McVeigh and how they were recruited by the – I don't know, either CIA or FBI,
[01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:25.920]  I'm not sure which agency he spoke of, but they were recruited for the special opting and then of course the agency turns on them and turns them into patsies.
[01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:27.920]  That's what he said. It's pretty interesting.
[01:21:27.920 --> 01:21:37.920]  So this guy, Ted Gunderson, has got a bunch of interesting information about that and it's all – most of what I can recall about what he said is directly in line with what you guys are talking about.
[01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:39.920]  So I just want to throw that out there.
[01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:50.920]  And then I was also going to just point out, because it's all related, these special ops situations that are going on and these false flag operations are pulling.
[01:21:50.920 --> 01:21:55.920]  9-11 is of course another example of that sort of thing.
[01:21:55.920 --> 01:22:02.920]  And I wanted to just throw out that I had recently seen a documentary that I had not seen before,
[01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:08.920]  which I believe someone did a good job of bringing a lot of various information together.
[01:22:08.920 --> 01:22:12.920]  And that's a film called Zero, Z-E-R-O, 9-1-1.
[01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:16.920]  I thought I'd throw that out there for listeners and for you folks who haven't seen it.
[01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:18.920]  I thought that's worth mentioning.
[01:22:18.920 --> 01:22:24.920]  And I'll call back in later with some questions that are off topic whenever you guys are ready for that.
[01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:25.920]  It's funny you mention that, Kenny.
[01:22:25.920 --> 01:22:26.920]  Thank you.
[01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:29.920]  In fact, I was on Tom Keiley's show last night for a brief moment promoting the same movie.
[01:22:29.920 --> 01:22:32.920]  And I got to meet some of the producers of that at a conference.
[01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:34.920]  They started working on that movie about three years ago.
[01:22:34.920 --> 01:22:38.920]  They flew to a 9-11 Truth Convergence in Chicago.
[01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:41.920]  And Alex and his staff were there.
[01:22:41.920 --> 01:22:45.920]  They interviewed a wide swath of people regarding the 9-11 movement.
[01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:50.920]  And that by far, you put that together with the series Loose Change, the final edition,
[01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:55.920]  you will get a pretty much succinct and very complete review of how to look at the case.
[01:22:55.920 --> 01:22:59.920]  And then oddly enough, you have National Geographic coming out three nights ago.
[01:22:59.920 --> 01:23:00.920]  They only went so far on that.
[01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:02.920]  But yes, Zero is one of the best I've seen.
[01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:06.920]  And it was very honored to meet some of the guys that actually produced that movie.
[01:23:06.920 --> 01:23:08.920]  Yeah, very well done.
[01:23:08.920 --> 01:23:12.920]  I thought what was great about what they did was they pulled information
[01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:17.920]  that I had seen from various other documentaries and kind of pulled it all together.
[01:23:17.920 --> 01:23:18.920]  It's quite lengthy.
[01:23:18.920 --> 01:23:23.920]  I want to say it's maybe two and a half, almost three hours long, the entirety of it.
[01:23:23.920 --> 01:23:25.920]  And yeah, just very well done.
[01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:30.920]  I mean, it's not the utmost in visual quality, but it's really more about the content.
[01:23:30.920 --> 01:23:33.920]  It's not meant to be, you know, an educational thing.
[01:23:33.920 --> 01:23:37.920]  It's about educating folks as to what has gone down.
[01:23:37.920 --> 01:23:41.920]  And, you know, if we can just keep on and on putting this out there.
[01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:43.920]  I mean, I haven't been extensively involved,
[01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:49.920]  but there's an organization in the LA area that's called We Are Change LA.
[01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:53.920]  Yes, our co-host James Lane actually took a bid from them
[01:23:53.920 --> 01:23:55.920]  and he started We Are Change Oklahoma.
[01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:57.920]  We had a couple of people from We Are Change LA.
[01:23:57.920 --> 01:23:58.920]  You're right, man.
[01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:00.920]  You're hitting your bat in 100 on this.
[01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:03.920]  The names and the sources you're putting out tonight are solid.
[01:24:03.920 --> 01:24:04.920]  They're very good.
[01:24:04.920 --> 01:24:05.920]  They're excellent.
[01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:06.920]  They're hard workers.
[01:24:06.920 --> 01:24:08.920]  Yeah, it's a very good group.
[01:24:08.920 --> 01:24:10.920]  I've only met with them a few times.
[01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:13.920]  I've got so many various different things.
[01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:15.920]  I've got probably too many irons in the fire.
[01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:19.920]  But it's a real good organization and they're doing a heck of a job getting,
[01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:22.920]  you know, trying to put the truth out there to folks.
[01:24:22.920 --> 01:24:26.920]  The unfortunate problem that we have is that, you know, about probably,
[01:24:26.920 --> 01:24:28.920]  maybe you'll disagree,
[01:24:28.920 --> 01:24:32.920]  but I'm guessing about 97% of the population of the country just didn't have
[01:24:32.920 --> 01:24:36.920]  enough sense to realize what's going on around them.
[01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:39.920]  And they're basically in a state of hypnosis.
[01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:45.920]  Wait a minute.
[01:24:45.920 --> 01:24:46.920]  That's not fair.
[01:24:46.920 --> 01:24:47.920]  That's not fair.
[01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:48.920]  I'm going to object.
[01:24:48.920 --> 01:24:49.920]  Okay.
[01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:52.920]  We're all here for our own purposes.
[01:24:52.920 --> 01:24:56.920]  We all have our own issues that we have to deal with.
[01:24:56.920 --> 01:25:00.920]  Some of us were put here for this purpose.
[01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:03.920]  Others were put here for other purposes.
[01:25:03.920 --> 01:25:09.920]  We can't expect everybody to have the same issues that we have.
[01:25:09.920 --> 01:25:17.920]  It's enough that we can wake up sufficient numbers of people to get this job
[01:25:17.920 --> 01:25:19.920]  done.
[01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:24.920]  But I think it's unfair to pick on the guy who's got six kids and two
[01:25:24.920 --> 01:25:29.920]  mortgages and he's up to his eyeballs already because he's not doing what
[01:25:29.920 --> 01:25:30.920]  we're doing.
[01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:31.920]  Right.
[01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:33.920]  Yeah, I understand.
[01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:35.920]  That's a good point.
[01:25:35.920 --> 01:25:37.920]  I'm not trying to make everybody wrong.
[01:25:37.920 --> 01:25:42.920]  I'm just saying that 95 to 98% of the population is not really,
[01:25:42.920 --> 01:25:48.920]  they're not willing to take on the responsibilities of state,
[01:25:48.920 --> 01:25:50.920]  I'm not going to say US citizenship.
[01:25:50.920 --> 01:25:52.920]  I'm going to say state citizenship.
[01:25:52.920 --> 01:25:58.920]  Because it is our responsibility and our duty to police our government.
[01:25:58.920 --> 01:25:59.920]  Yes, it is.
[01:25:59.920 --> 01:26:02.920]  If we're letting it, then we are letting our responsibilities down.
[01:26:02.920 --> 01:26:05.920]  Well, see, and Kenny, okay, in a sense you're right.
[01:26:05.920 --> 01:26:06.920]  You know, I agree.
[01:26:06.920 --> 01:26:09.920]  But the thing is a lot of people don't understand,
[01:26:09.920 --> 01:26:12.920]  they don't know that it is their responsibility.
[01:26:12.920 --> 01:26:15.920]  And so, you know, we're helping people to understand what their real
[01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:16.920]  responsibilities are.
[01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:19.920]  I had a very long conversation with Michael Banerich.
[01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:23.920]  Again, another close friend of mine, someone I looked up to for years and
[01:26:23.920 --> 01:26:24.920]  always wanted to meet.
[01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:26.920]  Now he's one of my best friends and peers.
[01:26:26.920 --> 01:26:31.920]  And we talked about this whole entitlement mentality thing that is just
[01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:36.920]  pervasive in this country in this day and age.
[01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:40.920]  And that people don't understand what the differences are between rights
[01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:44.920]  and privileges and responsibilities and all these kinds of things because
[01:26:44.920 --> 01:26:46.920]  they've been so brainwashed.
[01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:51.920]  And so we have to start educating people on how to think logically and use
[01:26:51.920 --> 01:26:58.920]  deductive reasoning to find flaws in their own philosophical structures and
[01:26:58.920 --> 01:27:04.920]  belief systems, to find the misconceptions and the things that don't make sense,
[01:27:04.920 --> 01:27:08.920]  the inconsistencies, so that they can start recognizing these kinds of
[01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:09.920]  disinfo.
[01:27:09.920 --> 01:27:14.920]  And, you know, the thing is people, some people have, like Ernie says,
[01:27:14.920 --> 01:27:17.920]  they have a family and they have to feed their kids.
[01:27:17.920 --> 01:27:22.920]  And the wife may be taking the responsibility to homeschool so they don't
[01:27:22.920 --> 01:27:26.920]  have two incomes because they want to homeschool their kids and not have to
[01:27:26.920 --> 01:27:29.920]  have them be in public schools and vaccinations.
[01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:33.920]  You know, I'll tell you, the only reason, well, not the only reason, but one
[01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:39.920]  of the main contributing factors to me being able to run this network and
[01:27:39.920 --> 01:27:45.920]  put all these wonderful hosts on the air is that I don't have any kids.
[01:27:45.920 --> 01:27:50.920]  I'm married and my husband, you know, makes it a decent living and he
[01:27:50.920 --> 01:27:52.920]  supports us and the listeners support us.
[01:27:52.920 --> 01:27:57.920]  But I'll tell you, if we had children, this network would not exist.
[01:27:57.920 --> 01:27:58.920]  Okay?
[01:27:58.920 --> 01:28:00.920]  So some people are called to do certain things.
[01:28:00.920 --> 01:28:05.920]  I was speaking with Solange with Michael Baderick today and one of his
[01:28:05.920 --> 01:28:11.920]  friends who has a six-month-old baby and he had the child with him today at
[01:28:11.920 --> 01:28:12.920]  the restaurant.
[01:28:12.920 --> 01:28:19.920]  And we were discussing what happened at the Senatorial Republican Convention
[01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:24.920]  for Senate District 14 here in Travis County, mostly represents Travis
[01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:27.920]  County and a few surrounding areas.
[01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:29.920]  I became a delegate.
[01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:31.920]  I represented my precinct.
[01:28:31.920 --> 01:28:35.920]  You know, all the Ron Paulers got together and we were trying to become
[01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:38.920]  delegates to go to the state convention and eventually national.
[01:28:38.920 --> 01:28:40.920]  And so we had a strong showing.
[01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:44.920]  We had a strong representation there of the people who supported Ron Paul.
[01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:49.920]  It ended up being about 45% of the convention were Ron Paul supporters at
[01:28:49.920 --> 01:28:51.920]  our senatorial convention, which was actually very strong.
[01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:53.920]  It wasn't quite enough to take over.
[01:28:53.920 --> 01:28:58.920]  But the point is what happened, the reason that we actually lost that
[01:28:58.920 --> 01:29:03.920]  convention was because the way they have it set up for the at-large candidates,
[01:29:03.920 --> 01:29:09.920]  they have the committee decides who the at-large candidates are going to be.
[01:29:09.920 --> 01:29:13.920]  So if you don't have enough representation for your precinct to actually elect
[01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:18.920]  your own delegates to go to state, then you have to be an at-large candidate.
[01:29:18.920 --> 01:29:22.920]  And then the committee picks and chooses, and it's a political process,
[01:29:22.920 --> 01:29:23.920]  of course.
[01:29:23.920 --> 01:29:31.920]  And the committee, five hours, they were handpicking the neocons to be the
[01:29:31.920 --> 01:29:32.920]  at-large candidates.
[01:29:32.920 --> 01:29:37.920]  And we had a plan to try to pull some parliamentary maneuvers to do a
[01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:43.920]  roll call vote, to try to gain back control of the convention at the end and
[01:29:43.920 --> 01:29:45.920]  be able to get our at-large candidates in.
[01:29:45.920 --> 01:29:52.920]  But because we had to wait so long, we had to wait so long, then everybody
[01:29:52.920 --> 01:29:53.920]  started leaving.
[01:29:53.920 --> 01:29:58.920]  And people, and the reason they were leaving is because they had kids, okay,
[01:29:58.920 --> 01:30:03.920]  and they had other responsibilities that they had to attend to.
[01:30:03.920 --> 01:30:07.920]  And so ultimately we lost the convention.
[01:30:07.920 --> 01:30:12.920]  And so we can't be that hard on people because they do have other
[01:30:12.920 --> 01:30:13.920]  responsibilities.
[01:30:13.920 --> 01:30:14.920]  So, you know, it's...
[01:30:14.920 --> 01:30:15.920]  Good point.
[01:30:15.920 --> 01:30:16.920]  Good point.
[01:30:16.920 --> 01:30:18.920]  And I want to jump in and make a comment if I could.
[01:30:18.920 --> 01:30:23.920]  I think the gentleman is talking about apathy and, to some extent,
[01:30:23.920 --> 01:30:26.920]  the fear and denial people have.
[01:30:26.920 --> 01:30:32.920]  And I'd like to ask VZ to jump in because VZ Lawton, I was asking today if
[01:30:32.920 --> 01:30:36.920]  there's anybody that still works for HUD that was inside the building when it
[01:30:36.920 --> 01:30:40.920]  went off, and VZ was telling me about the different attitudes of his former
[01:30:40.920 --> 01:30:41.920]  co-workers.
[01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:43.920]  Now, listen to this, VZ.
[01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:48.920]  Well, there's a few of them that agree with what I'm doing.
[01:30:48.920 --> 01:30:50.920]  I'm still pursuing the truth.
[01:30:50.920 --> 01:30:53.920]  I'm not going to be satisfied until everybody that was involved in it has been
[01:30:53.920 --> 01:30:58.920]  held accountable for their degree of participation.
[01:30:58.920 --> 01:31:02.920]  But there's also some of them that said, I don't want to talk about it anymore.
[01:31:02.920 --> 01:31:04.920]  I want to forget it.
[01:31:04.920 --> 01:31:09.920]  And I just can't believe anybody would be that way.
[01:31:09.920 --> 01:31:12.920]  But there are some people that don't want to hear about it anymore.
[01:31:12.920 --> 01:31:16.920]  Yeah, and I can relate to that because I spoke to a close friend of Ted
[01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:18.920]  Richardson who was murdered.
[01:31:18.920 --> 01:31:19.920]  We just talked about the former Deputy U.S.
[01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:22.920]  Attorney and I talked to one of his close friends.
[01:31:22.920 --> 01:31:24.920]  And his attitude was, well, what does it matter?
[01:31:24.920 --> 01:31:28.920]  He says, you're not going to bring him back from the dead.
[01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:31.920]  And I said, well, I know, but what about social justice, accountability,
[01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:34.920]  transparency, and the future of our government?
[01:31:34.920 --> 01:31:36.920]  If we were able to find out, would that be of interest to you?
[01:31:36.920 --> 01:31:39.920]  He says, well, no, because you couldn't bring him back.
[01:31:39.920 --> 01:31:41.920]  Just let sleeping dogs lie.
[01:31:41.920 --> 01:31:43.920]  Let the murderer get away.
[01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:46.920]  Yeah, and so I think what the gentleman was talking about, yeah, there's people
[01:31:46.920 --> 01:31:48.920]  that have families, they don't really have the time.
[01:31:48.920 --> 01:31:51.920]  But there's a lot of other people out there that I know what this gentleman's
[01:31:51.920 --> 01:31:55.920]  talking about that are afraid to talk about those kinds of things.
[01:31:55.920 --> 01:32:04.920]  Or they just become sort of drugged by the media into some kind of an apathy
[01:32:04.920 --> 01:32:05.920]  and an indifference.
[01:32:05.920 --> 01:32:09.920]  And I think that may have been what the gentleman was getting at.
[01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:10.920]  I'm not sure.
[01:32:10.920 --> 01:32:15.920]  Well, what I was going to comment on that was is that you've got to remember,
[01:32:15.920 --> 01:32:18.920]  this indoctrination has been going on for several generations now.
[01:32:18.920 --> 01:32:21.920]  This is not just an overnight thing in America.
[01:32:21.920 --> 01:32:23.920]  This has been going on for a long time.
[01:32:23.920 --> 01:32:26.920]  Our TV shows breed it into our kids.
[01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:28.920]  We let it breed them into the kids.
[01:32:28.920 --> 01:32:34.920]  I mean, this is our fault that the mindset of America is what it is.
[01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:36.920]  And that's where we need to make the change.
[01:32:36.920 --> 01:32:38.920]  We can't blame other people because of how they are.
[01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:43.920]  That's how they've been brought up for the last three generations.
[01:32:43.920 --> 01:32:47.920]  By the education of what we're trying to do right now,
[01:32:47.920 --> 01:32:50.920]  that's how we're going to try and reverse this trend
[01:32:50.920 --> 01:32:54.920]  and get us back to where apathy is no longer a problem.
[01:32:54.920 --> 01:32:58.920]  But it's not going to be overnight any more than the problem came about.
[01:32:58.920 --> 01:32:59.920]  Right.
[01:32:59.920 --> 01:33:02.920]  Of course, the media uses words like conspiracy buffs.
[01:33:02.920 --> 01:33:07.920]  That's the word I hate, to sort of downplay the significance
[01:33:07.920 --> 01:33:10.920]  of what all of us do that are concerned with the truth.
[01:33:10.920 --> 01:33:13.920]  If I could, let me just make a couple of statements before I jump off here.
[01:33:13.920 --> 01:33:15.920]  Number one was, yeah, you're correct.
[01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:22.920]  My statement wasn't so much a blaming as it was more of an observation
[01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:27.920]  that it seems that it's more important for people to watch TV
[01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:31.920]  and watch football and drink beer than it is to have involvement
[01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:34.920]  in what's going on with their world and their government
[01:33:34.920 --> 01:33:36.920]  and what's going to happen to their children in the future.
[01:33:36.920 --> 01:33:41.920]  The other comment was that I think what Deborah was talking about earlier,
[01:33:41.920 --> 01:33:46.920]  I think there's a huge connection whenever you bring up subject matter like Ron Paul.
[01:33:46.920 --> 01:33:53.920]  I believe that he is very aware of the connection between all these world events
[01:33:53.920 --> 01:33:59.920]  and monetary policy and control of monetary policy,
[01:33:59.920 --> 01:34:03.920]  which is basically international banking, Federal Reserve,
[01:34:03.920 --> 01:34:08.920]  which is taking control over virtually every currency in the world.
[01:34:08.920 --> 01:34:15.920]  And they are driving how they are driving all of these agencies,
[01:34:15.920 --> 01:34:18.920]  these alphabet agencies, and these world events,
[01:34:18.920 --> 01:34:21.920]  which include these supposed terrorist events, which are in our borders.
[01:34:21.920 --> 01:34:25.920]  I believe it's all intricately connected, and I think Ron Paul knows that.
[01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:27.920]  But I'll jump off now and make room for another caller.
[01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:28.920]  I'll call you guys later.
[01:34:28.920 --> 01:34:31.920]  Let me know when you're ready for off-subject calls.
[01:34:31.920 --> 01:34:33.920]  Okay, that's fine, Kenny.
[01:34:33.920 --> 01:34:35.920]  Thanks, and you brought up some excellent points, too.
[01:34:35.920 --> 01:34:38.920]  And I realize we know you weren't blaming.
[01:34:38.920 --> 01:34:42.920]  I mean, it's just a very difficult situation for people.
[01:34:42.920 --> 01:34:44.920]  It really is.
[01:34:44.920 --> 01:34:47.920]  In order to be on the front lines like this,
[01:34:47.920 --> 01:34:50.920]  I mean, you not only have to kind of streamline your own life
[01:34:50.920 --> 01:34:53.920]  to not have to be bogged down by so many other responsibilities,
[01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:55.920]  but you're right, and to be awake, too,
[01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:59.920]  and not be so distracted by the TV and be so placated.
[01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:02.920]  You know, that's one reason why I love talk radio.
[01:35:02.920 --> 01:35:06.920]  I think talk radio is really where it's at because you don't get spoon-fed
[01:35:06.920 --> 01:35:08.920]  the visual imagery.
[01:35:08.920 --> 01:35:13.920]  You know, you have to exercise that other portion of your mind
[01:35:13.920 --> 01:35:16.920]  that normally is occupied by visual imagery.
[01:35:16.920 --> 01:35:19.920]  You don't have a choice, and so you use your ears.
[01:35:19.920 --> 01:35:22.920]  It's auditory, so you're listening to what people are saying,
[01:35:22.920 --> 01:35:25.920]  and so it activates this creativity in this other area of your mind,
[01:35:25.920 --> 01:35:31.920]  and it gets you to think and become proactive in the subject material
[01:35:31.920 --> 01:35:34.920]  rather than just sitting there and just consuming, like with TV.
[01:35:34.920 --> 01:35:37.920]  That's a really good point. That's very important.
[01:35:37.920 --> 01:35:40.920]  And people, I get emails all the time,
[01:35:40.920 --> 01:35:44.920]  oh, you guys should webcam and broadcast video of yourselves
[01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:46.920]  while you're doing the radio,
[01:35:46.920 --> 01:35:49.920]  and why don't you go down to Brave New Books and set up and broadcast there?
[01:35:49.920 --> 01:35:54.920]  I mean, well, not only would that triple the amount of time of setup,
[01:35:54.920 --> 01:35:58.920]  but you know what? I don't want to do that for a reason.
[01:35:58.920 --> 01:36:04.920]  I want people to have to use and exercise that other area of their brain
[01:36:04.920 --> 01:36:08.920]  that is normally just basically pacified and placated
[01:36:08.920 --> 01:36:11.920]  by consuming visual imagery.
[01:36:11.920 --> 01:36:15.920]  I want people to listen to our words and use their imaginations
[01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:19.920]  to exercise and focus on our words
[01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:22.920]  so that they can be proactive about the subject material
[01:36:22.920 --> 01:36:24.920]  when they go in their other areas of life.
[01:36:24.920 --> 01:36:26.920]  That's why talk radio is so effective.
[01:36:26.920 --> 01:36:29.920]  Even Trent Lott said on the Senate floor
[01:36:29.920 --> 01:36:33.920]  that he wants to kill talk radio because talk radio is running the country,
[01:36:33.920 --> 01:36:36.920]  and it is. We are making a huge difference.
[01:36:36.920 --> 01:36:38.920]  Yeah, and I'd like to comment on that.
[01:36:38.920 --> 01:36:44.920]  My comment to Kenny was a matter of mental self-discipline.
[01:36:44.920 --> 01:36:49.920]  We sit here on the radio, and I'm sitting in front of a microphone
[01:36:49.920 --> 01:36:52.920]  and speaking to air.
[01:36:52.920 --> 01:36:56.920]  I don't have a human being in front of me that I can look at
[01:36:56.920 --> 01:36:59.920]  and gauge his response to me.
[01:36:59.920 --> 01:37:03.920]  So I have to be careful and think about what I'm saying
[01:37:03.920 --> 01:37:09.920]  and the kinds of effects the words I'm using are likely to have on my listener.
[01:37:09.920 --> 01:37:14.920]  So I tend to try to be very careful about how I hold my mind.
[01:37:14.920 --> 01:37:22.920]  I can't think of my listener as a beer-drinking complacent slug.
[01:37:22.920 --> 01:37:27.920]  I have to think of my listener as someone who's been lied to all his life,
[01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:33.920]  and I come and lay down before him a horrible, ugly truth,
[01:37:33.920 --> 01:37:37.920]  and it's very hard to swallow.
[01:37:37.920 --> 01:37:41.920]  So I have to be patient, I have to be consistent,
[01:37:41.920 --> 01:37:44.920]  and I have to be willing not to give up,
[01:37:44.920 --> 01:37:49.920]  so I can't think about my listener in those terms.
[01:37:49.920 --> 01:37:54.920]  Otherwise, it will injure my motivation.
[01:37:54.920 --> 01:37:57.920]  It takes away my energy,
[01:37:57.920 --> 01:38:02.920]  and I'm hoping to convey that back to everybody else.
[01:38:02.920 --> 01:38:06.920]  Yeah, they may be out there, the beer-drinkers and the ones that don't care,
[01:38:06.920 --> 01:38:09.920]  but I'm not after them anyway.
[01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:12.920]  Randy, you made an excellent point about the talk radio
[01:38:12.920 --> 01:38:15.920]  and you saying that you have to exercise.
[01:38:15.920 --> 01:38:20.920]  Talk radio is an exercise on the part of the host and the audience,
[01:38:20.920 --> 01:38:25.920]  and it's a good thing to have those blinders on
[01:38:25.920 --> 01:38:30.920]  because it makes both audience and the host exercise
[01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:33.920]  so that we can get the job done that needs to be done.
[01:38:33.920 --> 01:38:37.920]  Your brain isn't part of your body just like muscles or anything else.
[01:38:37.920 --> 01:38:39.920]  It needs to be exercised to get stronger.
[01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:41.920]  You have to think.
[01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:43.920]  Do math problems.
[01:38:43.920 --> 01:38:48.920]  Mike Badnerich was saying play the game.
[01:38:48.920 --> 01:38:50.920]  Mastermind.
[01:38:50.920 --> 01:38:55.920]  All right, train your mind to think logically with Boolean logic and stuff
[01:38:55.920 --> 01:38:58.920]  and listen to talk radio so that you can be effective in other areas of your life.
[01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:01.920]  So excellent points on everyone's account.
[01:39:01.920 --> 01:39:03.920]  Well, another point to bring up, too,
[01:39:03.920 --> 01:39:08.920]  is that there seems to be a consorted effort on the part of whomever you want to call it,
[01:39:08.920 --> 01:39:15.920]  how does it be or whatever, to train the masses to think a certain way
[01:39:15.920 --> 01:39:23.920]  and to train the masses to reject anything that's outside the mainstream train of thought,
[01:39:23.920 --> 01:39:30.920]  which is really a propaganda technique which was learned, I think, probably from the Nazis.
[01:39:30.920 --> 01:39:34.920]  But there does seem to be, now you can call me crazy if you want,
[01:39:34.920 --> 01:39:36.920]  but there does seem to be an effort.
[01:39:36.920 --> 01:39:40.920]  It's like when we talk about this subject matter,
[01:39:40.920 --> 01:39:47.920]  either about Oklahoma or 9-11, about how these might have been inside jobs
[01:39:47.920 --> 01:39:52.920]  and all this information and evidence to support that idea,
[01:39:52.920 --> 01:39:56.920]  you're oftentimes looked at or comments are made that,
[01:39:56.920 --> 01:40:02.920]  oh, another conspiracy theorist, well, you can call me what you may,
[01:40:02.920 --> 01:40:07.920]  but whenever I research a subject matter and I find that there's overwhelming evidence to suggest
[01:40:07.920 --> 01:40:10.920]  other than what the mainstream media is telling me,
[01:40:10.920 --> 01:40:19.920]  then there's strong reason to continue to investigate that and dig into it a little bit deeper.
[01:40:19.920 --> 01:40:21.920]  Do you understand what I'm saying, you guys?
[01:40:21.920 --> 01:40:32.920]  Yes, those jet-booted, thug, skinheaded, moronic, alphabet soup employees
[01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:39.920]  use that name-calling propaganda to improperly sway us from our positions.
[01:40:39.920 --> 01:40:46.920]  Yes, and Mike Badnerich, we were discussing this exact subject this afternoon,
[01:40:46.920 --> 01:40:54.920]  and it comes down to inconsistencies and contradictions in different thought patterns,
[01:40:54.920 --> 01:40:57.920]  and this goes to the double-think and the George Orwell,
[01:40:57.920 --> 01:41:02.920]  and so you have to train your mind that when you see inconsistencies and contradictions,
[01:41:02.920 --> 01:41:08.920]  to question it and trace it down to make everything logical so you can find the truth
[01:41:08.920 --> 01:41:12.920]  and what a lot of people, they've just been trained to do because of government schooling,
[01:41:12.920 --> 01:41:16.920]  because they intend it this way, a lot of people, most people I would say,
[01:41:16.920 --> 01:41:21.920]  when they come across contradictions in their thought patterns,
[01:41:21.920 --> 01:41:25.920]  instead of stopping and saying, wait a minute, something's wrong here,
[01:41:25.920 --> 01:41:29.920]  and the information I'm receiving, I see a contradiction, let's sort this out,
[01:41:29.920 --> 01:41:36.920]  their mind is trained to hide it from themselves because it's too much work to chase it down
[01:41:36.920 --> 01:41:41.920]  and find out what's really going on, and it's easier just to ignore it and go the other way,
[01:41:41.920 --> 01:41:45.920]  but then those inconsistencies and contradictions build up inside your psyche
[01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:50.920]  until eventually your mind is just mushed and you can't even think logically anymore,
[01:41:50.920 --> 01:41:54.920]  and the government is doing that on purpose, so we have to train our minds to actually think.
[01:41:54.920 --> 01:41:59.920]  I have a confession, I have a quick confession, and then I want to go back to Oklahoma City.
[01:41:59.920 --> 01:42:01.920]  Yes, absolutely.
[01:42:01.920 --> 01:42:08.920]  Earlier when you mentioned about the serial number on the differential out of that truck,
[01:42:08.920 --> 01:42:17.920]  it was like you slapped me in my face because I already knew that.
[01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:24.920]  When they mentioned the truck, I could see in my mind's eye the little sheet metal tab
[01:42:24.920 --> 01:42:31.920]  with the bolt hole in it that's put on one of the bolts that's run into the differential cover
[01:42:31.920 --> 01:42:36.920]  or the pumpkin gear where it bolts into the differential.
[01:42:36.920 --> 01:42:42.920]  I knew that, but when these guys fed out that horse hockey,
[01:42:42.920 --> 01:42:49.920]  I didn't stop and say, wait a minute, wait a minute, what is actually on that tab?
[01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:54.920]  I knew it was only a part number, but they sucked me in anyway.
[01:42:54.920 --> 01:42:59.920]  See, even the best of us, and Randy's an electrical engineer, he's an engineer, I'm a mathematician,
[01:42:59.920 --> 01:43:04.920]  we have to train our minds that whenever we see something that doesn't make sense,
[01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:09.920]  that's a contradiction, instead of just blowing it off and going on,
[01:43:09.920 --> 01:43:17.920]  we have to discipline ourselves to stop and chase it down and understand it, and it's work.
[01:43:17.920 --> 01:43:22.920]  But people, the more you train your mind to think like that, you'll become smarter.
[01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:23.920]  You actually become smarter.
[01:43:23.920 --> 01:43:27.920]  You'll start thinking faster and figuring out these things faster,
[01:43:27.920 --> 01:43:31.920]  and it's a good idea to play that mastermind game if you've never played it before.
[01:43:31.920 --> 01:43:36.920]  Work yourself to the point where you can solve it in four moves or less every time,
[01:43:36.920 --> 01:43:39.920]  and you'll take your mind to a different level.
[01:43:39.920 --> 01:43:41.920]  Anyway, listen, Kenny, we're going to let you go,
[01:43:41.920 --> 01:43:44.920]  and we're going to go back to Oklahoma City on the other side.
[01:43:44.920 --> 01:43:45.920]  Thanks, guys.
[01:43:45.920 --> 01:43:47.920]  All right, we'll be right back.
[01:43:47.920 --> 01:43:51.920]  The rule of law, Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, and Radio Free Oklahoma.
[01:43:51.920 --> 01:43:53.920]  We'll be right back.
[01:43:53.920 --> 01:43:55.920]  And Eddie Craig, of course.
[01:43:55.920 --> 01:43:57.920]  Hey, guys, we're going to...
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[01:44:57.920 --> 01:45:24.920]  Music
[01:45:24.920 --> 01:45:43.920]  Alright, we're back, and we've got one last final segment with Veezy Lawton, Joe Cooley,
[01:45:43.920 --> 01:45:45.920]  and Chris Emery.
[01:45:45.920 --> 01:45:49.920]  You're going to finish up with Chumlee, and then you're going to discuss Eric Holder
[01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:56.920]  and Loudon Schlager, so pack it in and give us as much info as you can in this last segment.
[01:45:56.920 --> 01:45:58.920]  Kind of a weird twist of circumstance.
[01:45:58.920 --> 01:46:03.920]  The day before the 10-year anniversary of Terry's passing, we had the press conference.
[01:46:03.920 --> 01:46:05.920]  It was Monday, May 8, 2006.
[01:46:05.920 --> 01:46:08.920]  I was moving boxes that weekend out of my apartment.
[01:46:08.920 --> 01:46:13.920]  I was truly concerned that we were going to go to the next level on this particular story,
[01:46:13.920 --> 01:46:16.920]  Terry's case, and I needed to put some things in safekeeping.
[01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:18.920]  It just so happened I threw my back out.
[01:46:18.920 --> 01:46:21.920]  And about two weeks after the press conference, it got so bad that I had to go to,
[01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:23.920]  of all places, the Broadway Clinic.
[01:46:23.920 --> 01:46:28.920]  I'm waiting in the waiting area for the nurse to come out to do a pre-exam,
[01:46:28.920 --> 01:46:30.920]  and then I was going to get a chiropractor to help me out.
[01:46:30.920 --> 01:46:34.920]  But lo and behold, I'm sitting in the chair, and what is up above my head?
[01:46:34.920 --> 01:46:38.920]  It's the bronze plaque commemorating Dr. Charles Chumlee for him starting.
[01:46:38.920 --> 01:46:40.920]  He had the money that funded the brand-new clinic.
[01:46:40.920 --> 01:46:46.920]  And the name to sun is one of the chief operating personnel.
[01:46:46.920 --> 01:46:49.920]  And I looked at that and I go, wow, that's really kind of uncanny.
[01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:51.920]  Two days later, I ended up calling his son,
[01:46:51.920 --> 01:46:54.920]  and he gave me the whole story about what really happened to his dad.
[01:46:54.920 --> 01:46:56.920]  And here again, their family has been strung out
[01:46:56.920 --> 01:46:59.920]  and not given the answers of what happened to Charles.
[01:46:59.920 --> 01:47:00.920]  He had a beautiful wife.
[01:47:00.920 --> 01:47:03.920]  He treated some of the top athletes, all the way from Muhammad Ali,
[01:47:03.920 --> 01:47:07.920]  some top hockey players, top professional football players,
[01:47:07.920 --> 01:47:09.920]  happened to be alum of Norman.
[01:47:09.920 --> 01:47:11.920]  I mean, it was the who's who gallery of all of the photos that he had there
[01:47:11.920 --> 01:47:14.920]  autographed in the lobby of the Broadway Clinic.
[01:47:14.920 --> 01:47:15.920]  This guy was not a slouch.
[01:47:15.920 --> 01:47:16.920]  He knew his business.
[01:47:16.920 --> 01:47:18.920]  He was very good and highly respected.
[01:47:18.920 --> 01:47:20.920]  And it just so happened Terry was one of his patients
[01:47:20.920 --> 01:47:22.920]  almost two years before the bombing.
[01:47:22.920 --> 01:47:25.920]  Terry had a series of congenital back problems.
[01:47:25.920 --> 01:47:27.920]  He was born with some of them.
[01:47:27.920 --> 01:47:30.920]  And then, of course, his work in the line of duty, he injured his back.
[01:47:30.920 --> 01:47:33.920]  So long story short, full circle back to the son.
[01:47:33.920 --> 01:47:36.920]  And that's where I was able to get the story.
[01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:40.920]  But his son told me that he said, look, I can't meet with you face to face,
[01:47:40.920 --> 01:47:42.920]  but I can talk to you on the phone.
[01:47:42.920 --> 01:47:43.920]  He was harassed.
[01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:47.920]  There was a parcel that was left on the back step of the Broadway Clinic.
[01:47:47.920 --> 01:47:50.920]  He came in usual Monday morning to open it up at 630.
[01:47:50.920 --> 01:47:56.920]  There's a newspaper wrapped with an article about the prosecutor that died.
[01:47:56.920 --> 01:48:00.920]  And then it was a post-it note that simply said, dead men don't tell tales.
[01:48:00.920 --> 01:48:02.920]  And he took that as an ominous sign.
[01:48:02.920 --> 01:48:04.920]  It's like, you know, just don't cross the line.
[01:48:04.920 --> 01:48:05.920]  We're not going to be talking about your dad.
[01:48:05.920 --> 01:48:06.920]  You don't go there.
[01:48:06.920 --> 01:48:07.920]  We don't go there.
[01:48:07.920 --> 01:48:09.920]  And everything is, you know, live and let live.
[01:48:09.920 --> 01:48:10.920]  And that was it.
[01:48:10.920 --> 01:48:12.920]  And he really chose not to go any farther than that.
[01:48:12.920 --> 01:48:15.920]  His son to this day knows that something horribly wrong happened to his dad.
[01:48:15.920 --> 01:48:18.920]  They just don't know why or who was responsible for it.
[01:48:18.920 --> 01:48:20.920]  So still left up to speculation.
[01:48:20.920 --> 01:48:22.920]  You wanted to talk about Lodenschlager.
[01:48:22.920 --> 01:48:23.920]  Yes.
[01:48:23.920 --> 01:48:31.920]  Briefly, Mike Lodenschlager worked for the General Services Administration in the federal building.
[01:48:31.920 --> 01:48:40.920]  I talked to his supervisor with the county sheriff's department because he was also a reserve officer with the horse division.
[01:48:40.920 --> 01:48:47.920]  And this gentleman told me that there were a lot of unanswered questions concerning his death.
[01:48:47.920 --> 01:48:55.920]  Now, about a week or so before the bombing, Mr. Lodenschlager was enlisted.
[01:48:55.920 --> 01:49:01.920]  There's a woman named Ms. Hunt, Danielle Hunt.
[01:49:01.920 --> 01:49:03.920]  And she took care of the nursery.
[01:49:03.920 --> 01:49:08.920]  And she observed agents of the ATF bringing munitions and explosives in the building.
[01:49:08.920 --> 01:49:12.920]  And they were apparently stored in a room close to where the nursery was.
[01:49:12.920 --> 01:49:13.920]  So she asked them about it.
[01:49:13.920 --> 01:49:15.920]  And they treated her very rudely.
[01:49:15.920 --> 01:49:18.920]  And so she decided to file a complaint.
[01:49:18.920 --> 01:49:22.920]  And he helped her fill out the forms and do that.
[01:49:22.920 --> 01:49:28.920]  And so shortly afterwards, she was escorted off the building or contract was terminated.
[01:49:28.920 --> 01:49:39.920]  And then after the explosion of the federal building, apparently he was seen outside of the building helping put people on stretchers,
[01:49:39.920 --> 01:49:43.920]  seen at St. Anthony's Hospital helping to bring people in.
[01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:47.920]  And then he just simply disappears.
[01:49:47.920 --> 01:49:53.920]  And later it was alleged that he was killed at his desk and he was under the rubble.
[01:49:53.920 --> 01:49:55.920]  Now, how does that happen?
[01:49:55.920 --> 01:50:00.920]  And we found out that that room was actually reinforced cinder block in concrete room.
[01:50:00.920 --> 01:50:02.920]  It was actually under the nursery.
[01:50:02.920 --> 01:50:07.920]  Highly illegal to store C4 and blasting caps in that room.
[01:50:07.920 --> 01:50:10.920]  And of course, just by pressure, you don't have to detonate the blasting caps.
[01:50:10.920 --> 01:50:19.920]  Just by pressure alone from the debris that was falling and the enormous tonnage of the load of the building falling on that same part, it exacerbated.
[01:50:19.920 --> 01:50:22.920]  It completely compounded the explosion even worse.
[01:50:22.920 --> 01:50:27.920]  The GSA, they sort of oversee those sort of compliance aspects of it is what I understood.
[01:50:27.920 --> 01:50:29.920]  His death was very suspicious.
[01:50:29.920 --> 01:50:33.920]  Oklahoma Fire Department chief wanted to go in there and look and the federal government,
[01:50:33.920 --> 01:50:36.920]  reps in the federal government pretty much says not only no, but hell no.
[01:50:36.920 --> 01:50:37.920]  I mean, completely in the face.
[01:50:37.920 --> 01:50:43.920]  They're spitting in the face of the fire chief, not letting him go into that room about a week and a half before the bombing.
[01:50:43.920 --> 01:50:45.920]  And they pretty much paid the price for it.
[01:50:45.920 --> 01:50:50.920]  19 children slaughtered, 19 children, the three of their adult caretakers.
[01:50:50.920 --> 01:51:00.920]  I know. And Chris gave me a copy, a very rare photo of the nursery, the children in the nursery before the bombing is precious.
[01:51:00.920 --> 01:51:03.920]  Now, Eric Holder, Eric Holder.
[01:51:03.920 --> 01:51:04.920]  Oh, wow.
[01:51:04.920 --> 01:51:07.920]  Eric Holder, you cover up the Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:51:07.920 --> 01:51:09.920]  You get to be attorney general of the U.S.
[01:51:09.920 --> 01:51:12.920]  We only have like seven minutes left, but string this guy up, bust him.
[01:51:12.920 --> 01:51:14.920]  What's going on? He covered up.
[01:51:14.920 --> 01:51:15.920]  What happened?
[01:51:15.920 --> 01:51:16.920]  Try to do it in a nutshell.
[01:51:16.920 --> 01:51:20.920]  We did the presentation April 20th, bring the books. You were kind enough to rebroadcast.
[01:51:20.920 --> 01:51:21.920]  Right.
[01:51:21.920 --> 01:51:26.920]  Okay. Eric Holder, deputy attorney general, the time of the bombing.
[01:51:26.920 --> 01:51:28.920]  That happened in April, August 95.
[01:51:28.920 --> 01:51:35.920]  Kenny Trenidu was brutally tortured and murdered at a transfer facility.
[01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:37.920]  And in the ensuing months after that.
[01:51:37.920 --> 01:51:41.920]  No way. He was deputy attorney general of the state of Oklahoma, not the U.S.
[01:51:41.920 --> 01:51:42.920]  No, no, no. This is the U.S.
[01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:43.920]  Oh, OK. OK. Go ahead.
[01:51:43.920 --> 01:51:46.920]  He appeared in the Clinton administration and he was actually at the beck and call of
[01:51:46.920 --> 01:51:49.920]  Jamie Grellick, who was on the 9-11 Commission.
[01:51:49.920 --> 01:51:51.920]  That's a whole other pot to stew there.
[01:51:51.920 --> 01:51:57.920]  But anyway, Holder was put in charge of actually covering up the investigation
[01:51:57.920 --> 01:52:03.920]  of the brutal torture and murder of Kenneth Trenidu and a huge red flag immediately.
[01:52:03.920 --> 01:52:07.920]  Why would a U.S. attorney general be concerned about what was basically labeled
[01:52:07.920 --> 01:52:13.920]  as a routine suicide at a transfer facility or Bureau of Prisons facility in Oklahoma City?
[01:52:13.920 --> 01:52:15.920]  And that was the big question.
[01:52:15.920 --> 01:52:20.920]  Jesse Trenidu, Kenny's brother, lawyer in Salt Lake City, stumbled across it.
[01:52:20.920 --> 01:52:23.920]  All of the documents that he was uncovering and he finally was able to get through FOIA
[01:52:23.920 --> 01:52:29.920]  clearly showed that Eric Holder's office, his personal aides, paralegals, and a lot of the attorneys
[01:52:29.920 --> 01:52:33.920]  that worked either on his level or right below him were complicit in the cover-up.
[01:52:33.920 --> 01:52:36.920]  We're talking about 20 individuals.
[01:52:36.920 --> 01:52:38.920]  They did not want the story to come out.
[01:52:38.920 --> 01:52:42.920]  They didn't want any stain at all, figuratively or literally, getting on the Clinton administration.
[01:52:42.920 --> 01:52:44.920]  So they shut it down. They lied.
[01:52:44.920 --> 01:52:49.920]  They actually approached Warren Hatch and Byron Dorgan and told them to back off,
[01:52:49.920 --> 01:52:54.920]  as well as Senator Nichols, U.S. attorney from Oklahoma that wanted to approach it,
[01:52:54.920 --> 01:52:56.920]  told them ought to buzz off.
[01:52:56.920 --> 01:53:01.920]  And we found out that to this day, he still has – and there's no other way to put it.
[01:53:01.920 --> 01:53:03.920]  This guy has blood on his hands.
[01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:08.920]  He was complicit in the cover-up of the murder of Kenneth Trinadue on August 21, 1995,
[01:53:08.920 --> 01:53:12.920]  right here at Oklahoma City at the Bureau of Prison Transfer Facility.
[01:53:12.920 --> 01:53:19.920]  And why would the – like half the Clinton administration be so interested in covering up
[01:53:19.920 --> 01:53:24.920]  a murder of a federal prisoner at a transfer facility?
[01:53:24.920 --> 01:53:28.920]  He was a spitting image, a stunt double of actually Richard Lee Guthrie,
[01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:32.920]  who was one of the accomplices of McVeigh, who the federal prosecutor's department
[01:53:32.920 --> 01:53:34.920]  just did not want to get that name out.
[01:53:34.920 --> 01:53:36.920]  They killed the wrong guy in the prison.
[01:53:36.920 --> 01:53:37.920]  It was horrible.
[01:53:37.920 --> 01:53:39.920]  They killed the wrong guy.
[01:53:39.920 --> 01:53:44.920]  They made a mistake because he looked like the guy that they were trying to get.
[01:53:44.920 --> 01:53:45.920]  Chando number two.
[01:53:45.920 --> 01:53:47.920]  Yep. Right after – if you want to comment on this.
[01:53:47.920 --> 01:53:48.920]  Chando number two.
[01:53:48.920 --> 01:53:54.920]  Yep. Richard Lee Guthrie was actually an accomplice of McVeigh and over 14 bank robberies.
[01:53:54.920 --> 01:53:57.920]  They knocked down 14 banks in the two and a half years before the bombing,
[01:53:57.920 --> 01:53:59.920]  raised nearly $300,000.
[01:53:59.920 --> 01:54:04.920]  That whole premise of where they spent that money, we still can't even pin it to Oklahoma City.
[01:54:04.920 --> 01:54:05.920]  We think that's just a ruse.
[01:54:05.920 --> 01:54:09.920]  These guys went and blew it on, things that they really had nothing to do with the bombing.
[01:54:09.920 --> 01:54:10.920]  So two questions.
[01:54:10.920 --> 01:54:14.920]  What happened to Guthrie and why did they want to kill him anyway?
[01:54:14.920 --> 01:54:17.920]  Guthrie ended up dying in a federal prison in Kentucky
[01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:20.920]  the day before he was to go live on a Kentucky TV station.
[01:54:20.920 --> 01:54:21.920]  What a coincidence.
[01:54:21.920 --> 01:54:23.920]  Yeah. Found him hanging in his cell.
[01:54:23.920 --> 01:54:29.920]  And there was a witness right in the facility here in Oklahoma City.
[01:54:29.920 --> 01:54:30.920]  He was found hanging in his cell.
[01:54:30.920 --> 01:54:36.920]  He was actually to go state's evidence on behalf of Jesse Trenedue to tell what he saw.
[01:54:36.920 --> 01:54:41.920]  He was actually a trustee the night of and in the same area that Kenny Trenedue was murdered.
[01:54:41.920 --> 01:54:43.920]  People – the list goes on and on.
[01:54:43.920 --> 01:54:45.920]  This is like the Clinton murders in Arkansas.
[01:54:45.920 --> 01:54:46.920]  It's insane.
[01:54:46.920 --> 01:54:49.920]  But you can't make this stuff up.
[01:54:49.920 --> 01:54:54.920]  They are serious about covering this up. Anybody that comes close to it that knows anything
[01:54:54.920 --> 01:54:59.920]  or they think that you know something, you're off.
[01:54:59.920 --> 01:55:01.920]  Anyway, I'm going to – we've got three, four minutes here.
[01:55:01.920 --> 01:55:02.920]  Go ahead.
[01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:06.920]  I just want to point there's an excellent website called atfabuse.com
[01:55:06.920 --> 01:55:10.920]  that really gives you an inside view of how these people work
[01:55:10.920 --> 01:55:15.920]  and some of the vicious things that they've done to people.
[01:55:15.920 --> 01:55:18.920]  And it's atfabuse.com.
[01:55:18.920 --> 01:55:23.920]  You mean Waco wasn't a good show with that?
[01:55:23.920 --> 01:55:25.920]  Boy, Lon Houcher reared his ugly head down there.
[01:55:25.920 --> 01:55:26.920]  I don't know if you guys knew.
[01:55:26.920 --> 01:55:28.920]  He did such a stellar job in the River Ridge.
[01:55:28.920 --> 01:55:31.920]  He was actually driving one of the two tanks that crashed through,
[01:55:31.920 --> 01:55:36.920]  sprayed syringe gas and all of – whoever survived that blaze was ready to leap out of there.
[01:55:36.920 --> 01:55:37.920]  He was in one of the two tanks.
[01:55:37.920 --> 01:55:39.920]  He didn't even know how to drive the tanks.
[01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:40.920]  They put him on the blue team.
[01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:41.920]  They had the red team and the blue team.
[01:55:41.920 --> 01:55:44.920]  He was in charge of the authorized for the blue team.
[01:55:44.920 --> 01:55:45.920]  Well, let's be fair.
[01:55:45.920 --> 01:55:49.920]  You don't really have to know how to drive a tank, just aim it.
[01:55:49.920 --> 01:55:50.920]  Spray and pray.
[01:55:50.920 --> 01:55:51.920]  Yeah.
[01:55:51.920 --> 01:55:55.920]  Oh, so anyway, that shows you the logic of Larry Potts and his whole elk there.
[01:55:55.920 --> 01:55:59.920]  But I guess we're coming up on a busy – you want to make some comments here?
[01:55:59.920 --> 01:56:01.920]  Yeah, we've got three minutes left, so go ahead, guys.
[01:56:01.920 --> 01:56:05.920]  Y'all can have the rest of the segment.
[01:56:05.920 --> 01:56:10.920]  There's so many things that are still going on with Oklahoma City bombing.
[01:56:10.920 --> 01:56:17.920]  We have a participant in the Oklahoma City bombing that worked for the Middle Eastern Terrorist Group
[01:56:17.920 --> 01:56:24.920]  out of Las Vegas that is still in prison.
[01:56:24.920 --> 01:56:32.920]  He was beginning to tell some of the stories that he was involved in,
[01:56:32.920 --> 01:56:36.920]  and it was beginning to embarrass the federal government.
[01:56:36.920 --> 01:56:43.920]  Because back in 1994, September 14th, they'd given him a letter of immunity
[01:56:43.920 --> 01:56:51.920]  so that he would come forth and tell them what was really going on with the Middle Eastern people.
[01:56:51.920 --> 01:56:54.920]  Let me ask one question real quick, guys.
[01:56:54.920 --> 01:56:59.920]  Chris, weren't you telling me at one point this whole thing boils down to the Oklahoma City bombing?
[01:56:59.920 --> 01:57:05.920]  They blew up the Murrow Building to try to protect Clinton himself from being exposed or something?
[01:57:05.920 --> 01:57:08.920]  Yeah, some speculation. That's a whole other side story.
[01:57:08.920 --> 01:57:12.920]  We have not seen a lot of definitive documentation.
[01:57:12.920 --> 01:57:17.920]  Of course, the rumors swirl on the Internet, but we have to stick with what we can believe here.
[01:57:17.920 --> 01:57:18.920]  Right, sure.
[01:57:18.920 --> 01:57:23.920]  Let me just add parenthetically something that BZ pointed out is that the records for Waco
[01:57:23.920 --> 01:57:29.920]  and the records for Whitewater were stored in the Oklahoma City Federal Building.
[01:57:29.920 --> 01:57:31.920]  We know that for a fact. Whitewater was here.
[01:57:31.920 --> 01:57:34.920]  And they've evaporated.
[01:57:34.920 --> 01:57:38.920]  There was a huge federal drug trafficking case that was due to go to court May 8th of that year.
[01:57:38.920 --> 01:57:41.920]  All of the contraband, the evidence, the documents were destroyed.
[01:57:41.920 --> 01:57:46.920]  They ended up flying over downtown Oklahoma City the morning of the bombing, five blocks to the south.
[01:57:46.920 --> 01:57:50.920]  And we had a bucket brigade line of FBI agents with their blue jackets
[01:57:50.920 --> 01:57:54.920]  and the yellow numbers on the back just reaching up at the sky going after these documents.
[01:57:54.920 --> 01:57:55.920]  They were frantic.
[01:57:55.920 --> 01:57:58.920]  And it was a wash. These guys had nothing to stand on.
[01:57:58.920 --> 01:58:01.920]  They dropped the indictments three weeks after the bombing.
[01:58:01.920 --> 01:58:04.920]  So, anyway, thank you guys for having us on.
[01:58:04.920 --> 01:58:06.920]  Unbelievable, Chris.
[01:58:06.920 --> 01:58:07.920]  Thank you very much.
[01:58:07.920 --> 01:58:10.920]  Thank you, Chris. Thank you, BZ. Thank you, Joe.
[01:58:10.920 --> 01:58:16.920]  This was a very wonderful surprise to have you guys on for two hours.
[01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:18.920]  Time flies. Thank you, Deb.
[01:58:18.920 --> 01:58:21.920]  Got to do it again, man. Y'all are awesome.
[01:58:21.920 --> 01:58:22.920]  Thank you, Randy.
[01:58:22.920 --> 01:58:24.920]  What a blessing. What a gift.
[01:58:24.920 --> 01:58:25.920]  Thanks, guys.
[01:58:25.920 --> 01:58:28.920]  Thank you very much. I really enjoyed your comments and commentary.
[01:58:28.920 --> 01:58:30.920]  Oh, thank you.
[01:58:30.920 --> 01:58:32.920]  Mr. BZ, let me make one last statement.
[01:58:32.920 --> 01:58:33.920]  Go ahead.
[01:58:33.920 --> 01:58:34.920]  Twenty seconds, BZ.
[01:58:34.920 --> 01:58:37.920]  You can't have justice without the truth.
[01:58:37.920 --> 01:58:40.920]  Exactly. Excellent, BZ. Thank you.
[01:58:40.920 --> 01:58:41.920]  Good night, Janet.
[01:58:41.920 --> 01:58:42.920]  All right. Good night, guys.
[01:58:42.920 --> 01:58:45.920]  And we'll return, Eddie, Randy and myself, for another two hours.
[01:58:45.920 --> 01:58:49.920]  Callers, if you'd like to call in, open lines, open minds,
[01:58:49.920 --> 01:59:01.920]  whatever topics you want to bring up, call in 512-646-1984.
[01:59:19.920 --> 01:59:20.920]  Thank you.
[01:59:20.920 --> 01:59:49.920]  Thank you.
[01:59:50.920 --> 01:59:55.920]  Thank you.