ROL_2009-06-12_16k_Hr1-2.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:05.240]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[00:05.240 --> 00:11.160]  The US military Wednesday said an airstrike in western Afghanistan killed Mullah Mustafa,
[00:11.160 --> 00:16.160]  a militant commander with reported links to Iran's elite military Quds Force.
[00:16.160 --> 00:20.200]  Sixteen of Mustafa's men were also killed.
[00:20.200 --> 00:25.560]  In the UK, the controversial use of control orders to limit the freedom of terrorist suspects
[00:25.560 --> 00:31.000]  without a trial has been dealt a serious blow after the law lords ruled the use of secret
[00:31.000 --> 00:34.120]  evidence breached human rights legislation.
[00:34.120 --> 00:40.040]  US envoy George Mitchell assured Palestinians Wednesday of Washington's commitment to a
[00:40.040 --> 00:41.440]  state of their own.
[00:41.440 --> 00:52.480]  Mitchell urged Israel to halt settlement expansion and Palestinians to rein in militants.
[00:52.480 --> 00:58.160]  Two passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on the Air France flight that
[00:58.160 --> 01:02.680]  crashed May 31st with the loss of 228 lives.
[01:02.680 --> 01:06.880]  The French Secret Service established the connection while working through the list
[01:06.880 --> 01:09.240]  of those who boarded in Rio.
[01:09.240 --> 01:14.840]  While it is certain there were computer malfunctions, terrorism has not been ruled out.
[01:14.840 --> 01:20.680]  Agents working for the DGSE, the French equivalent of the CIA, have established that two names
[01:20.680 --> 01:26.680]  on the passenger list are also on highly classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims
[01:26.680 --> 01:29.440]  considered a threat to France.
[01:29.440 --> 01:34.040]  Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers.
[01:34.040 --> 01:39.560]  It's possible the name similarities are simply a macabre coincidence, but the revelation
[01:39.560 --> 01:42.400]  is still being taken very seriously.
[01:42.400 --> 01:46.480]  France has received numerous threats from Islamist terrorist groups in recent months,
[01:46.480 --> 01:54.600]  especially after French troops were sent to fight in Afghanistan.
[01:54.600 --> 02:00.160]  In the Peruvian Amazon, confrontations between non-violent indigenous protesters and police
[02:00.160 --> 02:02.000]  have left 100 people dead.
[02:02.000 --> 02:08.280]  For almost two months, up to 30,000 indigenous people have been blocking road and river traffic,
[02:08.280 --> 02:15.100]  demanding the repeal of presidential decrees implementing the US-Peru Free Trade Agreement.
[02:15.100 --> 02:20.760]  Indigenous leaders say several decrees directly threaten indigenous territories and rights.
[02:20.760 --> 02:25.240]  Having attempted to get the government to repeal the most egregious decrees and faced
[02:25.240 --> 02:30.240]  with an influx of mining equipment into the region, the people decided it was imperative
[02:30.240 --> 02:33.200]  to put their bodies in front of the machines.
[02:33.200 --> 02:38.080]  On June 5th, the government launched an aggressive assault with police and troops using automatic
[02:38.080 --> 02:43.160]  weapons and heavy equipment against people armed with rocks and spears.
[02:43.160 --> 02:48.120]  Police say it is clear this was designed to inflict as many civilian casualties as possible
[02:48.120 --> 03:14.120]  and deter those in other regions from continuing protests.
[03:18.120 --> 03:44.920]  The police say it is clear this was designed to inflict as many civilian casualties as
[03:44.920 --> 03:45.920]  possible.
[03:45.920 --> 04:03.520]  This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens.
[04:03.520 --> 04:08.800]  It's our Friday evening info marathon.
[04:08.800 --> 04:14.200]  We're here with Eddie Craig who will be joining us shortly, but for now, for the first segment,
[04:14.200 --> 04:20.520]  we are opening the show by interviewing our very special guest, Deborah Medina, Republican
[04:20.520 --> 04:24.400]  candidate for the governor of Texas.
[04:24.400 --> 04:26.320]  Thank you, Deborah, for joining us tonight.
[04:26.320 --> 04:28.040]  Deborah, it's great to be with you.
[04:28.040 --> 04:32.000]  It's been a busy week, but I'm happy to have it be Friday evening and I've been looking
[04:32.000 --> 04:33.920]  forward to talking to you all all week.
[04:33.920 --> 04:34.920]  This is wonderful.
[04:34.920 --> 04:41.960]  So you're a Ron Paul supporter, and can you just open up by giving our listeners some
[04:41.960 --> 04:45.800]  of your background and some of your history and your stance on the issues that are most
[04:45.800 --> 04:46.800]  important to you?
[04:46.800 --> 04:52.360]  My husband and I were both born and raised in Beeville, Texas, which is about halfway
[04:52.360 --> 04:59.120]  between Corpus Christi and San Antonio, and we moved to Wharton County in 1989, which
[04:59.120 --> 05:04.520]  just happens to be right in the middle of Congressman Ron Paul's congressional district.
[05:04.520 --> 05:10.320]  And so as a young married couple with two young children, we kind of grew up under his
[05:10.320 --> 05:12.560]  political tutelage, if you will.
[05:12.560 --> 05:19.760]  I became the Republican county chairman here six years ago, five years ago, after having
[05:19.760 --> 05:24.480]  begun really becoming active in politics in the early 1990s.
[05:24.480 --> 05:26.460]  I'm a registered nurse.
[05:26.460 --> 05:28.720]  We have, as I said, two children.
[05:28.720 --> 05:31.360]  Our daughter is 24 and just married in April.
[05:31.360 --> 05:37.120]  She lives in Portland, Oregon, and our son is 20 and he lives in Snook, Texas and is
[05:37.120 --> 05:40.960]  a junior at Texas A or will be a junior at Texas A&M University.
[05:40.960 --> 05:48.680]  Both of those children were homeschooled all the way through, and both doing very well.
[05:48.680 --> 05:51.880]  He did great in college, and he's doing very well in college.
[05:51.880 --> 05:57.320]  I'm a registered nurse and have worked full-time the whole time, so we've got kind of an interesting
[05:57.320 --> 05:58.320]  story there.
[05:58.320 --> 06:02.960]  It's pretty unusual to have both parents working full-time while their children are being homeschooled,
[06:02.960 --> 06:07.920]  and I say that to encourage others out there who are struggling in the economic times to
[06:07.920 --> 06:14.640]  find themselves in that it can be done, and I find myself now in a governor's race.
[06:14.640 --> 06:15.640]  That's wonderful.
[06:15.640 --> 06:20.240]  So tell us some of the issues that are most important to you, what you intend to accomplish
[06:20.240 --> 06:21.240]  as governor.
[06:21.240 --> 06:28.000]  You know, I've been really frustrated for quite some time with not finding people in
[06:28.000 --> 06:30.520]  public office who do what they say they're going to do.
[06:30.520 --> 06:34.960]  I'm one of those old-fashioned girls that was raised on a farm in South Texas with,
[06:34.960 --> 06:39.720]  I think, some kind of traditional Texan values, and that is when you look a man in the eye
[06:39.720 --> 06:43.680]  and you tell him something, you don't have to dot the I, cross the T, sign it in blood,
[06:43.680 --> 06:44.680]  have it notarized.
[06:44.680 --> 06:49.760]  Your word ought to be your bond, and I'm sick to death of elected officials who say one
[06:49.760 --> 06:55.240]  thing when they campaign and then get in and all become big government, one world dictators.
[06:55.240 --> 07:06.480]  So I found myself, as we began to think about this race coming up, looking at the same kind
[07:06.480 --> 07:07.480]  of options.
[07:07.480 --> 07:13.360]  I think both of the leading candidates there are big government people, and certainly didn't
[07:13.360 --> 07:17.840]  see myself running, but back in the fall began to be approached by people from around the
[07:17.840 --> 07:22.480]  states, and we really would like you to take a serious look at that, and after several
[07:22.480 --> 07:28.280]  months of doing that, decided to enter the race, so we have been putting together a campaign
[07:28.280 --> 07:31.560]  and working pretty hard on that for the last couple of months.
[07:31.560 --> 07:32.560]  That's wonderful.
[07:32.560 --> 07:38.800]  I wanted to ask you, and I apologize, we didn't have much time to prepare, but one issue that's
[07:38.800 --> 07:45.280]  very important to me, just in a general sense, is federal government interference in the
[07:45.280 --> 07:50.680]  state's business, and I wanted to know what your stance is on that, and do you intend
[07:50.680 --> 07:58.640]  to, as governor, would you basically stand for the sovereignty of Texas as a state and
[07:58.640 --> 08:03.000]  not cave in to federal pressure, as it were?
[08:03.000 --> 08:06.680]  I mean, I've seen Homeland Security all over the state capitol, which I don't think is
[08:06.680 --> 08:07.680]  appropriate.
[08:07.680 --> 08:08.920]  It's the capitol of our state.
[08:08.920 --> 08:13.160]  It has nothing to do with the federal government, so can you just give us what your take is
[08:13.160 --> 08:14.160]  on that?
[08:14.160 --> 08:18.160]  Will you make a stand against the federal invasion of our states, basically?
[08:18.160 --> 08:22.840]  There's lots of places, I think, where we see that federal overreach and absolutely
[08:22.840 --> 08:26.400]  need to be pushing Washington back to Washington.
[08:26.400 --> 08:32.520]  I have conferred, thus far, with a former Texas Supreme Court Justice and a number of
[08:32.520 --> 08:39.440]  attorneys in an effort to figure out how to do that, or know whether it's attorney general
[08:39.440 --> 08:44.280]  of the state of Texas prosecuting that through the federal court system.
[08:44.280 --> 08:50.920]  Certainly, you know, you don't have a monarch in Texas in the governor's office, so figuring
[08:50.920 --> 08:59.440]  out the semantics from a practical day-to-day way, how do you shove Washington back?
[08:59.440 --> 09:03.560]  We certainly have seen vacillations on securing our border.
[09:03.560 --> 09:07.480]  If the federal government isn't going to get down here and do it, then Texas needs to do
[09:07.480 --> 09:08.480]  it.
[09:08.480 --> 09:11.120]  We're being invaded, and we've got to secure that border.
[09:11.120 --> 09:17.240]  We've got to look at the education policies coming out of Washington and the real ID stuff
[09:17.240 --> 09:18.840]  coming out of the side of Washington.
[09:18.840 --> 09:24.520]  There's just, I mean, I bet you and I could go on for the whole duration of the show talking
[09:24.520 --> 09:25.520]  about the places.
[09:25.520 --> 09:31.560]  I grew up along the coast, live now two counties away from the coast.
[09:31.560 --> 09:36.480]  Every time there's a hurricane, we've got the military in here taking care of what the
[09:36.480 --> 09:38.760]  military ought not be here taking care of.
[09:38.760 --> 09:43.680]  So there's lots of places where we see that overstep and that overreach, and absolutely
[09:43.680 --> 09:48.640]  have to have a governor who's going to work with the team of leadership in the state of
[09:48.640 --> 09:52.600]  Texas to tell the federal government, no thanks.
[09:52.600 --> 09:59.880]  Well, two points of interest to me of how we can get the federal meddling out of our
[09:59.880 --> 10:05.920]  state is, number one, we need to stop taking the funding, the dangling of the carrot on
[10:05.920 --> 10:12.160]  the stick as it were, and we need to stop the feds from interfering in the training
[10:12.160 --> 10:15.240]  of our police.
[10:15.240 --> 10:18.080]  As the leader of the executive branch, how do you feel about that?
[10:18.080 --> 10:24.320]  Do you think that the feds have any business directing and controlling the training programs
[10:24.320 --> 10:26.600]  of our law enforcement here in Texas?
[10:26.600 --> 10:33.720]  I think we certainly saw some clear direction historically saying that that was inappropriate.
[10:33.720 --> 10:37.440]  I do see some things happening in Texas that I'm excited about.
[10:37.440 --> 10:42.280]  I know that Sheriff Mack has been here to speak quite a few times, and I'm beginning
[10:42.280 --> 10:43.280]  to see a move.
[10:43.280 --> 10:47.840]  I don't know if you've seen down in Brazoria County, for example, a group there met with
[10:47.840 --> 10:54.440]  their county sheriff, shared the book with him, and then invited him to a group meeting
[10:54.440 --> 11:01.280]  after he had had an opportunity to read the book, and then went back after that and said,
[11:01.280 --> 11:07.800]  you know, Sheriff, we'd really like to share this information with every one of your deputies.
[11:07.800 --> 11:11.280]  The sheriff has 100 deputies on his staff.
[11:11.280 --> 11:14.120]  They have purchased 100 copies of the book.
[11:14.120 --> 11:19.440]  They're providing all of those deputies with the book and with copies of the Constitution,
[11:19.440 --> 11:21.760]  and I've shared that here in my own county.
[11:21.760 --> 11:24.880]  I think we're going to see more and more of that kind of thing happening.
[11:24.880 --> 11:30.440]  We just have not had enough education going on with regard to the proper role of that,
[11:30.440 --> 11:35.560]  so I'm excited to see those things happening and certainly would like to see leadership
[11:35.560 --> 11:41.000]  across the state becoming aware of those issues and taking a more proactive role to make sure
[11:41.000 --> 11:45.680]  that we understand what it takes to protect the liberty of the citizens of the state of
[11:45.680 --> 11:46.680]  Texas.
[11:46.680 --> 11:47.680]  Well, that's wonderful.
[11:47.680 --> 11:53.960]  So would you say that you are for or against a national ID card and RFID chipping and driver's
[11:53.960 --> 11:54.960]  licenses?
[11:54.960 --> 11:58.720]  Well, I've been fighting that for a long time.
[11:58.720 --> 12:03.840]  You know, I think what the vehicle that was first used and what we're seeing is the animal
[12:03.840 --> 12:04.840]  ID.
[12:04.840 --> 12:08.080]  You know, that was kind of the first place that we started to see that implemented in
[12:08.080 --> 12:15.400]  Texas, and I can't remember when I started working initially with J.C. Cooper right here
[12:15.400 --> 12:20.600]  in Wharton County to push back against the animal ID initiative.
[12:20.600 --> 12:23.760]  You know, we saw the state of Montana just nullify that.
[12:23.760 --> 12:26.720]  Their state legislature nullified real ID.
[12:26.720 --> 12:30.440]  I'm not sure why we've not done that here in Texas, and those are the kinds of things
[12:30.440 --> 12:34.240]  that we ought to be doing with federal law that is unconstitutional.
[12:34.240 --> 12:35.240]  Absolutely.
[12:35.240 --> 12:43.240]  Now, I was reading on your website a post concerning hand-counted paper ballots and
[12:43.240 --> 12:48.080]  public view and vote rescue, Karen Renick and Vicki Karp, two of my best friends.
[12:48.080 --> 12:52.840]  Can you please speak on how you feel on the voting machine issue?
[12:52.840 --> 12:55.440]  Yeah, I could.
[12:55.440 --> 13:01.000]  You know, one of the things that the governor of Texas does is appoint the secretary of
[13:01.000 --> 13:07.960]  state, and that's the individual responsible for making sure that elections are conducted
[13:07.960 --> 13:11.720]  properly in the state of Texas, and I think we've got some real problems there.
[13:11.720 --> 13:17.320]  I've been pretty involved in that just as a Republican county chairman.
[13:17.320 --> 13:25.200]  We had optical scan ballots, and kind of without a lot of public hoopla, our county election
[13:25.200 --> 13:34.240]  administrator decided to take the county from an optical scan ballot to a completely electronic
[13:34.240 --> 13:38.920]  touchscreen machine, and the very first time that those touchscreens were used in a countywide
[13:38.920 --> 13:44.920]  election, we had a well-documented, uncontested vote flipping.
[13:44.920 --> 13:50.500]  We had a voter notice that the screen was changing his vote, or his vote was being changed
[13:50.500 --> 13:55.480]  on the screen, and he put it back to where he wanted it to be, and he'd go vote another
[13:55.480 --> 14:00.880]  issue, and the previous issue would change, and that was well-documented.
[14:00.880 --> 14:02.960]  He called the election judge over.
[14:02.960 --> 14:07.440]  The election judge confirms that that is exactly what the machine was doing, and that was my
[14:07.440 --> 14:13.920]  first introduction to the world of problems with electronic.
[14:13.920 --> 14:18.160]  I kind of have this level of suspicion, but lo and behold, the very first time they're
[14:18.160 --> 14:24.120]  used countywide, we have that problem, and of course, I'm assured that it didn't happen
[14:24.120 --> 14:26.920]  anywhere else, and I immediately said, how do you know?
[14:26.920 --> 14:27.920]  Exactly.
[14:27.920 --> 14:29.360]  How do you know it didn't happen?
[14:29.360 --> 14:37.040]  Then the thing that has caused me the most grief is, as we began to investigate that,
[14:37.040 --> 14:44.120]  and Vote Rescue was instrumental in helping us find an individual to do the data analysis,
[14:44.120 --> 14:50.520]  I did a FOIA request and got the data, come to find out in the state of Texas, there's
[14:50.520 --> 14:56.080]  a panel appointed by the Secretary of State, four members appointed by the Secretary of
[14:56.080 --> 14:59.800]  State, two panel members appointed by the Texas Attorney General.
[14:59.800 --> 15:08.560]  Those six panelists are charged with reviewing that equipment before it is certified.
[15:08.560 --> 15:15.080]  The equipment used here in Wharton County, the ES&S IVOTRONIC machine has gone through
[15:15.080 --> 15:20.720]  or had gone through three certifications prior to its purchase and use here in Wharton County,
[15:20.720 --> 15:29.040]  and in all three certifications, several members of the panel said, we recommend that this
[15:29.040 --> 15:30.760]  equipment not be certified.
[15:30.760 --> 15:32.400]  It doesn't work.
[15:32.400 --> 15:34.160]  And they still did it anyway.
[15:34.160 --> 15:35.160]  And it's certified.
[15:35.160 --> 15:40.000]  And of course, with optical scanners, when it comes to the counting, it's the same thing.
[15:40.000 --> 15:43.640]  I mean, the only way we're really going to know what the real count is, is if the paper
[15:43.640 --> 15:46.040]  ballots are counted in hand.
[15:46.040 --> 15:47.040]  Right.
[15:47.040 --> 15:55.320]  And so I know that in the world of people that are paying attention to voting, the ideal
[15:55.320 --> 16:02.680]  situation is hand-counted paper ballots, but I'd like to at least say, gosh, I had a paper
[16:02.680 --> 16:03.680]  ballot.
[16:03.680 --> 16:06.600]  Before we were using optical scanners, but we had a paper ballot.
[16:06.600 --> 16:07.600]  We changed.
[16:07.600 --> 16:14.520]  It cost our county roughly $150,000 to make that change on equipment that the Secretary
[16:14.520 --> 16:17.640]  of State should have known would not work.
[16:17.640 --> 16:23.000]  Her own review panel, his own review panel, because it wasn't Hope S. Brons at the time.
[16:23.000 --> 16:27.800]  It was, you know, earlier Secretaries under which that equipment was certified.
[16:27.800 --> 16:29.440]  They should, they knew.
[16:29.440 --> 16:33.720]  They had the review from their own panel saying, this equipment doesn't work.
[16:33.720 --> 16:39.680]  In one instance, in one review, they were counting a test deck of nine ballots.
[16:39.680 --> 16:46.520]  The vendor's own experts had to rerun nine ballots three times before the equipment would
[16:46.520 --> 16:48.240]  count the nine ballots, correct?
[16:48.240 --> 16:49.240]  Yes.
[16:49.240 --> 16:55.680]  As I recall, the evaluators said that the machine could not correctly count the ballots
[16:55.680 --> 16:59.680]  until they programmed in the results.
[16:59.680 --> 17:00.680]  Yeah, I actually have that report.
[17:00.680 --> 17:04.880]  I downloaded it from the Secretary of State website.
[17:04.880 --> 17:10.720]  They had to pre-program in the results of the election to get the software to even work.
[17:10.720 --> 17:11.720]  So I...
[17:11.720 --> 17:14.720]  Pretty outrageous, huh?
[17:14.720 --> 17:18.480]  Yeah, we need, we need more boots on the ground helping with that.
[17:18.480 --> 17:24.520]  I, it had been my hope that once our story was fully documented, we would circulate it
[17:24.520 --> 17:26.640]  to all of the counties in Texas.
[17:26.640 --> 17:31.680]  I think there are 80 or 90 counties in Texas using that equipment, and I hoped that the
[17:31.680 --> 17:38.120]  commissioners and the county judges from those counties would seek damages from the state
[17:38.120 --> 17:39.120]  of Texas.
[17:39.120 --> 17:40.600]  They need to get rid of the equipment.
[17:40.600 --> 17:45.480]  They bought the equipment because the state certified the equipment as functioning equipment,
[17:45.480 --> 17:51.720]  and now they're stuck and having made purchases of equipment that the state should have known
[17:51.720 --> 17:52.720]  was flawed.
[17:52.720 --> 17:55.360]  So who, who made the purchases, the county or the state?
[17:55.360 --> 17:57.200]  The county purchased the equipment.
[17:57.200 --> 18:01.080]  The counties foot the bill, oh man.
[18:01.080 --> 18:05.120]  For equipment that the state certified worked.
[18:05.120 --> 18:10.640]  So I can't, I mean, I guess if you're, if you're, if you're super, super aggressive
[18:10.640 --> 18:14.840]  and you're a county election administrator, you go in and you, and you check the equipment
[18:14.840 --> 18:15.840]  yourself.
[18:15.840 --> 18:20.200]  But most county employees are going to say, hey, the state's got a certification process.
[18:20.200 --> 18:25.640]  My, you know, I can pick from any of these vendors' pieces of equipment as long as they've
[18:25.640 --> 18:29.880]  been certified and they pick a certified machine that, that they think is going to best work
[18:29.880 --> 18:30.880]  in their county.
[18:30.880 --> 18:31.880]  Yes, and see...
[18:31.880 --> 18:36.120]  Should we really expect, I don't think we really should have expected them to do all
[18:36.120 --> 18:38.520]  the digging that the state said it had already done.
[18:38.520 --> 18:42.640]  Right, and see, that's where you would come in as governor because I've studied the election
[18:42.640 --> 18:50.760]  code extensively and it's really completely set up in great detail to make the secretary
[18:50.760 --> 18:57.820]  of state an umbrella over all the county officials so that they cannot be held responsible, yet
[18:57.820 --> 18:59.400]  they have to foot the bill.
[18:59.400 --> 19:03.680]  And so all the fingers and it all, all roads lead to the secretary of state when it comes
[19:03.680 --> 19:10.360]  to the certification process of these voting machines or elect voting systems as they're
[19:10.360 --> 19:11.880]  called, okay.
[19:11.880 --> 19:16.880]  And so where you would come in is to appoint a secretary of state who is going to push
[19:16.880 --> 19:18.960]  for the hand counted paper ballots.
[19:18.960 --> 19:26.560]  I know we're beyond our time today, but you can see the videotape testimony of before
[19:26.560 --> 19:32.520]  the House Committee on Elections where Chairman Leo Berman, Leo Berman was the chair of that
[19:32.520 --> 19:36.360]  committee and they barely blinked an eye, didn't raise an eyebrow, didn't seem to cause
[19:36.360 --> 19:37.720]  any concern.
[19:37.720 --> 19:43.480]  Thankfully, the Senate committee that heard that testimony during the interim, the chair
[19:43.480 --> 19:50.720]  of the Senate committee was physically moved and sat back in his chair and said, if this
[19:50.720 --> 19:56.200]  is true, this is very disturbing.
[19:56.200 --> 20:01.160]  The members of the House Committee on Elections, shame on you, shame on you because they didn't
[20:01.160 --> 20:06.760]  blink when that testimony was provided and they had inflammatory testimony provided to
[20:06.760 --> 20:11.560]  them all day long and it didn't even cause them to blink.
[20:11.560 --> 20:17.560]  And it's that kind of apathy and lackadaisical, you know, don't really care just so I get
[20:17.560 --> 20:25.480]  re-elected, business as usual status quo that this campaign is going to fight.
[20:25.480 --> 20:30.120]  We Texans, common sense, common values, I hope your listeners will visit.
[20:30.120 --> 20:33.800]  The website should be up I think this weekend, MedinaForTexas.com.
[20:33.800 --> 20:40.960]  Wonderful, yes, and listeners out there, if you do a search, start page or Ixquick, don't
[20:40.960 --> 20:49.800]  use Google of course, for Deborah Medina for Governor, that's D-E-B-R-A-M-E-D-I-N-A.
[20:49.800 --> 20:54.200]  You will find a lot of really good information and I really appreciate your spirit and I
[20:54.200 --> 20:55.680]  appreciate you coming on tonight.
[20:55.680 --> 20:57.680]  Do you have any closing words for us?
[20:57.680 --> 21:01.600]  I appreciate you staying over the time that you promised us.
[21:01.600 --> 21:07.280]  Well, I know we're running a lot these days, I hope to get back on to talk with you more.
[21:07.280 --> 21:13.240]  We didn't get into economic issues or immigration or healthcare energy, there's certainly lots
[21:13.240 --> 21:14.240]  going on.
[21:14.240 --> 21:21.840]  I hope your listeners will visit us, MedinaForTexas.com and they can email me there, Deborah at MedinaForTexas.com.
[21:21.840 --> 21:22.840]  We really appreciate it.
[21:22.840 --> 21:29.600]  I mean the main thing is you're for a real election and you're also not wanting to cater
[21:29.600 --> 21:34.680]  to the feds and that's very important to me so I appreciate your candor and your spirit
[21:34.680 --> 21:35.680]  and your time.
[21:35.680 --> 21:36.680]  Thank you.
[21:36.680 --> 21:37.680]  You all have a good evening.
[21:37.680 --> 21:38.680]  All right, thank you Deborah.
[21:38.680 --> 21:39.680]  Bye bye.
[21:39.680 --> 21:46.040]  All right, that was Deborah Medina running for Governor for the State of Texas and now
[21:46.040 --> 21:51.240]  I believe we have our next guest who is Gary Johnson.
[21:51.240 --> 21:53.320]  Gary, are you on the line?
[21:53.320 --> 21:54.320]  Hello Deborah.
[21:54.320 --> 22:03.640]  Hey Gary and I just wanted to introduce Gary Johnson, he's a long time activist and producer
[22:03.640 --> 22:10.160]  and television host of two television shows on cable access here in Austin, Live and Let
[22:10.160 --> 22:18.080]  Live and Smash the State, two of my favorite shows of all time and I apologize Gary that
[22:18.080 --> 22:26.360]  we have not had a chance to accurately or adequately promote you but I am very pleased
[22:26.360 --> 22:31.480]  and honored to announce that Gary Johnson is our newest host on the Rule of Law Radio
[22:31.480 --> 22:32.480]  Network.
[22:32.480 --> 22:36.360]  He is going to be starting his show this Sunday at 8 p.m.
[22:36.360 --> 22:39.040]  He's going to be doing his shows every Sunday from 8 to 10.
[22:39.040 --> 22:41.800]  So Gary, thanks for joining us tonight and welcome aboard.
[22:41.800 --> 22:42.800]  Thank you Deborah.
[22:42.800 --> 22:50.400]  Yes, we'll be on Sunday 8 p.m. with Live and Let Live, just continuing as before and our
[22:50.400 --> 22:58.440]  first guest on Sunday will be John Rowland who is webmaster of the site constitution.org.
[22:58.440 --> 23:04.080]  He's going to talk about his trip to Jekyll Island, I know you've had other people talk
[23:04.080 --> 23:09.600]  about that but he's going to talk about it in more detail, Jekyll Island being the spawning
[23:09.600 --> 23:15.600]  ground of the Federal Reserve and we're also going to have Peggy Venable who is the executive
[23:15.600 --> 23:23.880]  director of Americans for Prosperity which among other things was one of the organizations
[23:23.880 --> 23:30.800]  that organized the tea parties on April 15th and she's going to talk about that and also
[23:30.800 --> 23:34.540]  they're going to have more tea parties on July 4th.
[23:34.540 --> 23:38.400]  So we have a full show I think.
[23:38.400 --> 23:39.400]  That's wonderful.
[23:39.400 --> 23:44.320]  So Gary, why don't you give us a little background on yourself and what you've been involved
[23:44.320 --> 23:53.040]  in in the last 20 years or so on cable access here in Austin and your stance as a libertarian.
[23:53.040 --> 23:57.760]  I kind of want to make Sunday nights libertarian nights so tell us something about yourself
[23:57.760 --> 24:04.600]  and where you stand as far as political ideology and the work that you've done.
[24:04.600 --> 24:14.960]  Well I am a libertarian, a capital L libertarian and I've held I guess as many different positions
[24:14.960 --> 24:22.320]  as a party as you can hold including national secretary and I've been a candidate a few
[24:22.320 --> 24:31.520]  times and I've been speaking on behalf of libertarianism for as you say about 20 years.
[24:31.520 --> 24:37.920]  As far as cable television I think in most towns there is something called public access
[24:37.920 --> 24:38.920]  television.
[24:38.920 --> 24:45.840]  We have it here in Austin and there has been a show called Live and Let Live that I have
[24:45.840 --> 24:51.720]  worked on not alone but many, many people have worked on this program Live and Let Live
[24:51.720 --> 24:58.760]  that started in 1987 and I know that you know or knew some of these people, some of them
[24:58.760 --> 25:07.880]  are no longer living, Terry Liberty Parker in particular was with the show for many,
[25:07.880 --> 25:15.920]  many years and I don't know if you knew Greg Clark he was our original host and so this
[25:15.920 --> 25:21.800]  is now a one hour, it actually started as a half hour interview show and we have had
[25:21.800 --> 25:28.720]  all sorts of people on Live and Let Live including John Henry Falk in his last television interview
[25:28.720 --> 25:36.320]  and so it's a libertarian show but it's not all libertarian, there's people all across
[25:36.320 --> 25:43.560]  the political spectrum telling their stories about I guess their brush with big government
[25:43.560 --> 25:49.440]  and I think that that's really what's important to me about the show is the guest, it's really
[25:49.440 --> 25:52.000]  giving the guest the opportunity to tell a story.
[25:52.000 --> 25:57.360]  I like to say that the secret to a good interview is a great guest, it's to find somebody who
[25:57.360 --> 26:02.240]  has something to talk about, somebody who knows what they're talking about and can tell
[26:02.240 --> 26:09.080]  it and it's really our opportunity to give them their chance to tell their story and
[26:09.080 --> 26:10.080]  let people know about it.
[26:10.080 --> 26:15.400]  I like for people after they've listened to the show to know more than they knew before
[26:15.400 --> 26:16.400]  the show.
[26:16.400 --> 26:17.400]  That's excellent.
[26:17.400 --> 26:29.680]  Gary, I would like you to explain to our listeners and me because I, well Jeff Davis and Terry
[26:29.680 --> 26:37.640]  Liberty Parker, they were guests on our show, well a year and a half or so ago, they were
[26:37.640 --> 26:43.680]  trying to explain and I'm sure they did a very good job, what exactly is the deal with
[26:43.680 --> 26:52.000]  Austin Cable Access or whatever they call it now, apparently it's a quasi-private, public
[26:52.000 --> 27:00.320]  sort of enmeshment cluster for lack of a better term and it's privately owned but publicly
[27:00.320 --> 27:05.680]  regulated and publicly funded but also probably, I mean and so it's like who's really pulling
[27:05.680 --> 27:06.680]  the strings?
[27:06.680 --> 27:07.680]  Is it private?
[27:07.680 --> 27:08.680]  Is it public?
[27:08.680 --> 27:09.680]  It's sort of both.
[27:09.680 --> 27:15.520]  I mean it seems to be kind of weird to me and I mean and the reason I'm saying this
[27:15.520 --> 27:20.280]  is because I'm always into like exposing corruption and this sort of thing and it's just a very
[27:20.280 --> 27:21.280]  bizarre situation.
[27:21.280 --> 27:27.240]  It's always struck me as a very bizarre situation, this Cable Access thing and apparently there's
[27:27.240 --> 27:33.240]  some strange things that are going down there right now and that's why you have elected,
[27:33.240 --> 27:38.640]  opted to make the transition from going from TV, which you've done for so many years, 20
[27:38.640 --> 27:42.880]  years to radio now so can you kind of, what's the deal?
[27:42.880 --> 27:43.880]  What's going on over there?
[27:43.880 --> 27:44.880]  What's been going on over there?
[27:44.880 --> 27:52.200]  Okay well I guess I should explain public access television to begin with.
[27:52.200 --> 27:58.000]  The theory, let me give you the theory, is this goes back to the old days when the belief
[27:58.000 --> 28:02.000]  was that cable television was a natural monopoly.
[28:02.000 --> 28:06.280]  Now I can tell you that that's not true, it is possible to have competing cable systems
[28:06.280 --> 28:10.920]  and theoretically you as a customer should be able to choose your cable service and in
[28:10.920 --> 28:15.640]  some parts of the country and in even some parts of Austin you can choose which cable
[28:15.640 --> 28:21.480]  company you want to have, just like we used to be told that the phone service was a natural
[28:21.480 --> 28:22.480]  monopoly.
[28:22.480 --> 28:26.640]  There was only one phone company, well we know that that's not true and so this natural
[28:26.640 --> 28:34.200]  monopoly argument has been given over the years and the argument of a natural monopoly
[28:34.200 --> 28:39.560]  then goes to the argument, well since it's a monopoly the government should control it
[28:39.560 --> 28:45.760]  and I would say, I know some people who are part of public access would not like me saying
[28:45.760 --> 28:51.320]  this but public access television is really a kind of censorship because it's the government
[28:51.320 --> 28:58.480]  forcing the cable television company to carry channels that it might not want to carry but
[28:58.480 --> 29:05.800]  the idea is that the cable company is required to carry channels of public access where the
[29:05.800 --> 29:12.120]  public theoretically can go down and produce any show it wants to so I can go down to their
[29:12.120 --> 29:15.720]  studio and make a show and they have to run it.
[29:15.720 --> 29:25.960]  Now in some cities the public access is run by the government, it's like a city department.
[29:25.960 --> 29:31.960]  Just like here in Austin there is a channel that is devoted to the city council, you watch
[29:31.960 --> 29:37.560]  the city council meeting, that's run by a city department, there's a channel, a government
[29:37.560 --> 29:41.880]  access channel that's run by the county and that's where you watch the county commissioner
[29:41.880 --> 29:42.880]  meeting.
[29:42.880 --> 29:47.880]  There's a school district channel that's run by the school district, there's a community
[29:47.880 --> 29:52.880]  college channel, all these are channels that the cable company is required to carry and
[29:52.880 --> 29:56.120]  the customers pay for.
[29:56.120 --> 30:01.080]  Well there are public access channels where anybody can go down and produce their shows
[30:01.080 --> 30:04.000]  and in many cities the government runs this.
[30:04.000 --> 30:07.920]  In Austin they have chosen and this is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it may be
[30:07.920 --> 30:08.920]  a good thing.
[30:08.920 --> 30:14.040]  The government has decided to contract this out and so they have competitive bidding in
[30:14.040 --> 30:19.040]  theory and different entities, corporations...
[30:19.040 --> 30:24.880]  Wait a minute, hold on back up, the city of Austin has decided to contract what out, the
[30:24.880 --> 30:25.880]  cable...
[30:25.880 --> 30:28.320]  The management of the public access.
[30:28.320 --> 30:29.320]  Okay, okay.
[30:29.320 --> 30:37.480]  The city has built a building which the city government owns for public access.
[30:37.480 --> 30:45.400]  The cable television customers pay a tax on their cable bill, it's 35 cents a month that
[30:45.400 --> 30:53.280]  pays for access television, if you get cable you can find it on your bill, it's an itemized
[30:53.280 --> 30:55.080]  tax on your bill.
[30:55.080 --> 31:00.440]  I know that some people really get upset when you call this tax a tax, they say, no it's
[31:00.440 --> 31:06.680]  a fee or a contribution or something, it's a tax and that money goes to the city.
[31:06.680 --> 31:13.720]  The city could spend that money to run public access itself out of the city department but
[31:13.720 --> 31:21.120]  the city of Austin has decided to use that money to hire a private entity to manage the
[31:21.120 --> 31:23.640]  public access channel.
[31:23.640 --> 31:30.200]  For I guess about 30 years it was run by something called Austin Community Television which they
[31:30.200 --> 31:33.640]  were kind of the pioneers, I don't know if they were the first but they were among the
[31:33.640 --> 31:38.200]  first to run public access in the country.
[31:38.200 --> 31:47.760]  Okay, well a scandal hit them, I'll give the short version of it.
[31:47.760 --> 31:54.200]  It turned out that the executive director was in Benzling Fund and I used to know the
[31:54.200 --> 32:00.800]  figure and I forgot the amount but that seems hundreds of thousands of dollars and so the
[32:00.800 --> 32:07.040]  contract which was awarded by the city, usually as I say it's a competitive bidding process
[32:07.040 --> 32:11.360]  but usually the only bidder was Austin Community Television.
[32:11.360 --> 32:18.080]  Well this time it looked like they were not going to get it so two other private entities
[32:18.080 --> 32:26.560]  bid on the contract and one of the group called Public Access Community Television won the
[32:26.560 --> 32:36.200]  bidding contract and so for the past I guess about three and a half years a different contractor
[32:36.200 --> 32:41.520]  has been running Public Access Television so in summary use a cable customer, pay a
[32:41.520 --> 32:48.840]  tax to the city, the city government then hire the private company to actually manage
[32:48.840 --> 32:53.520]  the public access facilities even though the facilities are owned by the government.
[32:53.520 --> 32:56.240]  Okay so I have two questions now.
[32:56.240 --> 33:04.440]  First question is, okay I don't have cable TV, I don't watch TV, we have like a 20 year
[33:04.440 --> 33:10.160]  old TV that's like stuck in the corner that we only use if we want to watch a DVD or something.
[33:10.160 --> 33:12.520]  Okay a documentary or something.
[33:12.520 --> 33:15.000]  You know the analog TV went off today.
[33:15.000 --> 33:16.000]  Oh it did?
[33:16.000 --> 33:18.120]  Yeah today was the day.
[33:18.120 --> 33:22.040]  Wow incredible.
[33:22.040 --> 33:23.040]  So ironic.
[33:23.040 --> 33:29.640]  Well my question is I have heard and maybe could verify if this is true or not, do cable
[33:29.640 --> 33:37.000]  customers who subscribe to cable have to pay extra to subscribe to the cable access, public
[33:37.000 --> 33:39.840]  cable access channel even though they're being taxed?
[33:39.840 --> 33:44.040]  So if they're being taxed shouldn't they not have to pay extra again?
[33:44.040 --> 33:47.520]  Isn't that kind of like, doesn't that not seem right to you, is that what's really going
[33:47.520 --> 33:48.520]  on?
[33:48.520 --> 33:52.560]  Okay the answer to your question is no.
[33:52.560 --> 33:57.200]  The most basic cable service that you can get, the minimum number of channels I think
[33:57.200 --> 34:00.560]  is fewer than 20 okay.
[34:00.560 --> 34:04.640]  You don't get HBO, you don't get anything, you just get the bare minimum, I probably
[34:04.640 --> 34:06.760]  don't even get a box.
[34:06.760 --> 34:09.160]  That includes public access.
[34:09.160 --> 34:17.080]  Every tier, every option includes the, not just public access but all the access channels,
[34:17.080 --> 34:22.240]  the government access, the education access, it's called PEG, P-E-G, Public Education
[34:22.240 --> 34:23.560]  and Government Access.
[34:23.560 --> 34:28.800]  You have to get that so you'll probably get the local over the air channels and the public
[34:28.800 --> 34:34.440]  education and government access channels on the bare minimum cable, that's the bare minimum.
[34:34.440 --> 34:39.000]  Then if you go higher you can get other channels in addition to that but you will definitely
[34:39.000 --> 34:44.200]  get the access channels and you pay for that in a tax on your cable bill.
[34:44.200 --> 34:49.040]  So you're not being ripped off in that you're paying twice, you're not doing that.
[34:49.040 --> 34:52.480]  I as a libertarian say you're being ripped off in that if you don't want public access
[34:52.480 --> 34:56.920]  you have to pay because the government requires the cable company to carry it and requires
[34:56.920 --> 35:01.400]  the cable company customers to pay for it whether they want it or not.
[35:01.400 --> 35:06.720]  Okay, okay and I just remembered and I just got a chat, it's in San Antonio that they're
[35:06.720 --> 35:07.720]  doing that.
[35:07.720 --> 35:08.720]  Oh really?
[35:08.720 --> 35:14.920]  Yeah, they're requiring certain areas of San Antonio to pay extra to get the cable access.
[35:14.920 --> 35:16.920]  Okay, well that's very interesting.
[35:16.920 --> 35:18.200]  Yeah but not in Austin.
[35:18.200 --> 35:23.760]  Okay my second question is, okay you said that the city of Austin owns the building,
[35:23.760 --> 35:28.000]  who owns the equipment?
[35:28.000 --> 35:32.040]  You know I have to refresh my memory on this.
[35:32.040 --> 35:41.760]  It may be the Time Warner or the cable companies own it because they paid for it.
[35:41.760 --> 35:46.520]  It may either be the city government or it may be the cable companies that actually paid
[35:46.520 --> 35:48.520]  for it.
[35:48.520 --> 35:53.720]  Wait a minute, didn't the taxpayers pay for it?
[35:53.720 --> 35:57.360]  That's a good question, that's a good point.
[35:57.360 --> 36:00.880]  Let me go back because I only gave half the story here.
[36:00.880 --> 36:04.680]  The taxpayers pay the tax, there's a tax on your cable bill.
[36:04.680 --> 36:09.640]  There's another tax which I didn't even mention which the cable company pays.
[36:09.640 --> 36:16.120]  It also is not called a tax, it's called the capital equipment fund and that pays for the
[36:16.120 --> 36:17.120]  equipment.
[36:17.120 --> 36:24.120]  The tax that you pay on your cable bill, the 35 cents per month, I guess that pays for
[36:24.120 --> 36:35.080]  the salaries and other expenses of the people who actually run the cable access facility.
[36:35.080 --> 36:40.360]  The cable company pays, I'm sorry I can't remember this, I used to know this, but it's
[36:40.360 --> 36:47.000]  several million dollars over a period of several years and they don't pay it all at once, but
[36:47.000 --> 36:54.880]  they pay a capital equipment fund and that is what's used to buy the cameras, the microphones,
[36:54.880 --> 36:55.880]  etc.
[36:55.880 --> 37:03.280]  The cable company does pay the tax, it does buy the equipment.
[37:03.280 --> 37:15.800]  But they're collecting the money from the taxpayers, theoretically, part of the tax
[37:15.800 --> 37:19.920]  is collected directly from the taxpayers, from the customers, I'll put it that way.
[37:19.920 --> 37:23.040]  Part of the tax is collected directly from the customers.
[37:23.040 --> 37:31.360]  There's another tax which is part of their franchise that's a separate capital equipment
[37:31.360 --> 37:34.160]  fund that is paid by the cable company.
[37:34.160 --> 37:41.000]  Now obviously the cable company passes that cost on to the consumer.
[37:41.000 --> 37:44.960]  Let me go back here and say I don't know if it really matters who owns the equipment because
[37:44.960 --> 37:48.160]  the cable company has no interest in this equipment once they pay for it.
[37:48.160 --> 37:52.200]  They're not going to take it back because it's going to be obsolete.
[37:52.200 --> 37:53.800]  It's just an expense to them.
[37:53.800 --> 37:58.960]  They buy the cameras, they send it over there and they don't want a 10 year old camera when
[37:58.960 --> 38:03.760]  it wears out.
[38:03.760 --> 38:09.320]  The cable company, put it this way, the cable customer is eventually paying this whether
[38:09.320 --> 38:13.800]  they're paying it directly through the tax or the cable company pays it and then passes
[38:13.800 --> 38:16.600]  it on to the customer in the form of a higher price.
[38:16.600 --> 38:24.240]  Right, but the bottom line, if I'm understanding you correctly Gary, is that somehow Time Warner
[38:24.240 --> 38:25.800]  is running this.
[38:25.800 --> 38:28.320]  No, Time Warner is paying for this.
[38:28.320 --> 38:33.440]  Time Warner, it's much to my surprise, doesn't seem to care about it.
[38:33.440 --> 38:34.960]  In my opinion, they could have shut it down.
[38:34.960 --> 38:36.760]  If they really didn't like it, they could shut it down.
[38:36.760 --> 38:39.200]  They're a big powerful cable company.
[38:39.200 --> 38:41.840]  They just pay it to them at the business expense.
[38:41.840 --> 38:46.160]  That's not a few of other people but that's the way it looks to me.
[38:46.160 --> 38:52.640]  Time Warner pays a tax, we pay a tax and Time Warner takes it out of our hide too to pay
[38:52.640 --> 38:58.040]  the tax to the government but then Time Warner ends up owning the equipment.
[38:58.040 --> 38:59.040]  Maybe.
[38:59.040 --> 39:02.360]  I don't remember who owns the equipment.
[39:02.360 --> 39:08.320]  I believe they do but they just turn it over to the facility.
[39:08.320 --> 39:13.320]  I think the only way that Time Warner would take back this equipment would be if there
[39:13.320 --> 39:17.720]  was some sort of dispute and I believe that that did happen in San Antonio, if you mentioned
[39:17.720 --> 39:23.880]  San Antonio where they shut down the studio.
[39:23.880 --> 39:25.680]  It was Time Warner who did that.
[39:25.680 --> 39:26.680]  Not surprising.
[39:26.680 --> 39:36.480]  Tell us what is going on now.
[39:36.480 --> 39:42.600]  You mentioned the costs for the payroll, et cetera, et cetera, to run the facility but
[39:42.600 --> 39:50.620]  isn't it true that I guess it would be the entity that has been contracted by the City
[39:50.620 --> 39:55.720]  of Austin to run the cable access channel.
[39:55.720 --> 40:02.880]  Don't they require the producers slash hosts to take training courses and the camera people
[40:02.880 --> 40:07.520]  and the people who are going to run the board to take these certification classes and pay
[40:07.520 --> 40:10.600]  so aren't you guys really the ones who are running it?
[40:10.600 --> 40:11.600]  Right.
[40:11.600 --> 40:19.800]  Well, I don't know who's running what but going back earlier, I said that the theory
[40:19.800 --> 40:24.820]  of public access television is anybody can produce a television show so you could go
[40:24.820 --> 40:30.360]  down there and you can put a TV, you can have a TV show, you can have Live on the Live on
[40:30.360 --> 40:31.360]  the TV.
[40:31.360 --> 40:32.360]  All right.
[40:32.360 --> 40:42.880]  Now, this is equipment, some of this is very expensive television equipment and microphones
[40:42.880 --> 40:51.640]  and mixers and so they do require you to take some kind of class to learn how to use the
[40:51.640 --> 40:52.640]  equipment.
[40:52.640 --> 41:00.240]  Now, in the old days, the classes were all free, those days are long since gone and the
[41:00.240 --> 41:05.440]  new management which has been running there for the past three years or so, they've really
[41:05.440 --> 41:13.040]  increased in my humble opinion the cost and I just took a class that cost $125 for one
[41:13.040 --> 41:19.840]  piece of equipment so this cost can add up, however, I will say in my humble opinion it
[41:19.840 --> 41:25.280]  is a bargain in the sense that even though that may be a high price to pay, once you
[41:25.280 --> 41:29.120]  are certified, you're allowed to use some very nice equipment.
[41:29.120 --> 41:34.840]  Yes, and it is because I've been there, you know, I was a guest frequently on Jeff Davis
[41:34.840 --> 41:37.480]  show and your show also.
[41:37.480 --> 41:38.480]  Yes.
[41:38.480 --> 41:43.480]  Well, so tell us what's, I mean, tell us what's going on now.
[41:43.480 --> 41:46.920]  Apparently they're shutting down and they're, what's the deal?
[41:46.920 --> 41:53.200]  Well, you know, this is bizarre, I should explain to people that there are two studios
[41:53.200 --> 41:58.600]  in this building, the city-owned building, as you say, Jeff Davis is out of one of the
[41:58.600 --> 42:04.640]  studios, Living It Live was out of the other studio, there are live shows, there are call-in
[42:04.640 --> 42:10.200]  shows, there is also facilities there for people to edit, I was going to say edit tape
[42:10.200 --> 42:15.440]  but they don't want us using tape anymore which is another issue, but they have decided
[42:15.440 --> 42:22.000]  that they want, they got new equipment, all right, and so they decided to shut down the
[42:22.000 --> 42:23.000]  studios.
[42:23.000 --> 42:27.440]  Now, they've installed the new equipment before so I don't understand and usually it took
[42:27.440 --> 42:32.880]  like a day or two but now they have shut down the studios actually beginning at the beginning
[42:32.880 --> 42:40.920]  of June and I just got an email which I don't have in front of me which informed us that
[42:40.920 --> 42:49.400]  it looks like in September everything will be back up and running but I don't know why
[42:49.400 --> 42:55.160]  they had to shut down the whole facility, well I should correct myself, the editing
[42:55.160 --> 43:02.480]  facility, the editing bay, they're still going to be running but we won't be doing, we aren't
[43:02.480 --> 43:07.560]  doing any live shows right now so that's an issue, you know, Jeff Davis is on live right
[43:07.560 --> 43:16.920]  now and so forth and they also, they're not having any series, that is the Jeff Davis
[43:16.920 --> 43:22.800]  show was on every Sunday night at 10 o'clock on channel 10, well that's not true anymore
[43:22.800 --> 43:30.320]  even if you had a taped show, they're just running random programs, there's no schedule
[43:30.320 --> 43:36.320]  and so as a result of that, you know, I'm not producing a show there.
[43:36.320 --> 43:41.320]  Okay, okay listen we're going to go to break, I want to talk about this random schedule
[43:41.320 --> 43:47.720]  when we get back because this is very confusing to me, we are speaking with Gary Johnson,
[43:47.720 --> 43:55.040]  long time activist libertarian, cable access producer, host, now our newest host on rule
[43:55.040 --> 43:57.440]  of law radio, we'll be right back.
[43:57.440 --> 44:03.000]  If your body isn't feeling too well these days, you're going to start taking this hemp
[44:03.000 --> 44:12.080]  I say, go to HempUSA.org, you may not like what I'm about to say but you know I'm going
[44:12.080 --> 44:17.480]  to say it anyway, the government doesn't want the best for you, they keep you down, they
[44:17.480 --> 44:25.280]  keep you blue, they starve your body for all its nutrients, they won't let you grow industrial
[44:25.280 --> 44:30.160]  hemp, it really doesn't make any kind of sense when it's so healthy for the world and useful
[44:30.160 --> 44:33.200]  for you my friends.
[44:33.200 --> 44:42.720]  I hope Mr. Bush will hear this song, for the heart of America wants this one, go to HempUSA.org.
[44:42.720 --> 44:47.680]  If you're a truther, an anarchist, a renegade, you only want things that God has made, go
[44:47.680 --> 44:52.200]  to HempUSA.org.
[44:52.200 --> 45:05.720]  They offer free shipping anywhere in the states, go to HempUSA.org.
[45:05.720 --> 45:33.240]  When soldiers at Nixon come in, we're finally on our own, this summer I hear the drumming,
[45:33.240 --> 45:35.700]  the
[46:33.240 --> 46:40.240]  Soldiers are cutting us down Sure have been blind long ago
[46:42.240 --> 46:48.240]  Well, if you knew a man Found a red leg on the ground
[46:48.240 --> 47:11.240]  How could you not let me know?
[47:11.240 --> 47:18.240]  Since soldiers and Nixon's fallen We're finally on our own
[47:18.240 --> 47:26.240]  This summer I hear the drumming For dead in Ohio
[47:26.240 --> 47:49.240]  For dead in Ohio
[47:56.240 --> 48:15.240]  For dead in Ohio
[48:15.240 --> 48:34.240]  For dead in Ohio
[48:34.240 --> 48:49.240]  For dead in Ohio
[48:49.240 --> 49:08.240]  For dead in Ohio
[49:08.240 --> 49:13.240]  Well, you know, I don't quite understand. I guess I should go back a little bit in history.
[49:13.240 --> 49:19.240]  It used to be that the cable companies did the programming.
[49:19.240 --> 49:24.240]  So there were live shows and there were taped shows, or maybe I'll call them pre-recorded shows.
[49:24.240 --> 49:29.240]  Now we're not on tape anymore. We're on computer files.
[49:29.240 --> 49:34.240]  But it was called master control. It was handled by the cable company.
[49:34.240 --> 49:39.240]  For a while Time Warner handled it. Then Grande handled it.
[49:39.240 --> 49:43.240]  They wanted to, I guess, show they were good citizens or whatever.
[49:43.240 --> 49:45.240]  They did get paid for it, I should point out.
[49:45.240 --> 49:51.240]  But cable public access wanted to run it themselves.
[49:51.240 --> 49:54.240]  They wanted to have the playback equipment.
[49:54.240 --> 49:59.240]  This was a big controversy, which I don't want to go into,
[49:59.240 --> 50:02.240]  because the city didn't quite have enough money for it.
[50:02.240 --> 50:08.240]  The city had to have one city department borrow money from another city department to buy all this equipment.
[50:08.240 --> 50:16.240]  But eventually the actual programming, as you would call it, is done in the building in public access
[50:16.240 --> 50:22.240]  with this very expensive equipment, this giant computer that does the programming.
[50:22.240 --> 50:29.240]  So it decides that, you know, Jeff Davis is on 10 on Sunday night on Channel 10.
[50:29.240 --> 50:36.240]  For reasons that I don't understand, because of this remodeling of the studios,
[50:36.240 --> 50:41.240]  which they call the rewiring, they're also going to take the playback equipment out of the building.
[50:41.240 --> 50:44.240]  It may even be out of the building right now.
[50:44.240 --> 50:48.240]  And so they are not playing the shows with this big, expensive computer.
[50:48.240 --> 50:52.240]  They're doing it with some sort of, I don't know, it's running on somebody's laptop or something.
[50:52.240 --> 50:54.240]  I don't know what they're doing.
[50:54.240 --> 51:02.240]  But they say that they are not scheduled programs, that they're just running shows that's called floating.
[51:02.240 --> 51:10.240]  They're just running shows in no particular order.
[51:10.240 --> 51:18.240]  Yes.
[51:18.240 --> 51:24.240]  Actually I got this email saying that in September the series will begin again.
[51:24.240 --> 51:29.240]  So by series I mean regularly scheduled programming.
[51:29.240 --> 51:36.240]  So I don't know why, but that's what's going on right now.
[51:36.240 --> 51:52.240]  So we don't have the studios, and the shows are not running on scheduled time.
[51:52.240 --> 52:07.240]  You didn't ask me about the problems.
[52:07.240 --> 52:12.240]  Yes, so Gary, tell us, yes, this whole rewiring thing.
[52:12.240 --> 52:13.240]  No, that's not the issue.
[52:13.240 --> 52:14.240]  Let me tell you something.
[52:14.240 --> 52:17.240]  The rewiring, although the rewiring is an annoyance,
[52:17.240 --> 52:22.240]  the real problem is that some of the producers have been mistreated.
[52:22.240 --> 52:26.240]  That's the real problem, in my humble opinion.
[52:26.240 --> 52:29.240]  Yes, tell us what's going on with that.
[52:29.240 --> 52:39.240]  I want to tell the story of Nick Papatona, who was, notice I used the past tense, a producer of Public Act.
[52:39.240 --> 52:46.240]  He had a show, I think he had a series at one point, but he produced a taped show.
[52:46.240 --> 52:53.240]  And it was supposed to run in, let's see if I get the year right, December 2007,
[52:53.240 --> 52:56.240]  eight, I'm sorry, I had to get my calendar.
[52:56.240 --> 53:01.240]  It would be a little over a year ago, so what would that be?
[53:01.240 --> 53:03.240]  So his show was scheduled.
[53:03.240 --> 53:07.240]  It was listed in the schedule on the Web site.
[53:07.240 --> 53:10.240]  The show did not run at the time it was supposed to run,
[53:10.240 --> 53:14.240]  and apparently he told all his friends to be sure and watch his TV show.
[53:14.240 --> 53:17.240]  Okay, well this is not normally a big deal.
[53:17.240 --> 53:22.240]  So he sent an e-mail to the management complaining that his show did not run,
[53:22.240 --> 53:27.240]  and somewhere in the e-mail he referred to the management as incompetent.
[53:27.240 --> 53:33.240]  Well, this normally would not be a big issue, except that he carbon copied, I guess you would call it,
[53:33.240 --> 53:39.240]  the e-mail to just about everybody in town, including the mayor, the city council, the city manager, and blah, blah.
[53:39.240 --> 53:44.240]  Well, the management didn't like that. They didn't like being called incompetent.
[53:44.240 --> 53:54.240]  So they demanded that Nick apologize for this e-mail, and he would not.
[53:54.240 --> 54:03.240]  And so the management basically had banned him from the building since a little over a year ago,
[54:03.240 --> 54:12.240]  this would be around February of last year, for that reason, because he criticized them for not running his show on time
[54:12.240 --> 54:15.240]  and referred to them as incompetent.
[54:15.240 --> 54:19.240]  Wait a minute. This building belongs to who?
[54:19.240 --> 54:22.240]  It belongs to the government, the people.
[54:22.240 --> 54:28.240]  These guys could go to jail for that.
[54:28.240 --> 54:31.240]  What are you saying, Randy? These guys could go to jail for that?
[54:31.240 --> 54:33.240]  Yes.
[54:33.240 --> 54:42.240]  Well, see, this is what I was trying to get to earlier, like this quasi-public-private partnership here,
[54:42.240 --> 54:47.240]  and that's why I was pressing for who owns the equipment and who owns the building,
[54:47.240 --> 54:56.240]  because if it's a public entity, then they are under a lot of laws.
[54:56.240 --> 55:06.240]  For one thing, I will say that Nick at one point got himself a really good lawyer who was specialized in this sort of thing.
[55:06.240 --> 55:12.240]  And one of the issues is the civil rights violation that it's supposed to be.
[55:12.240 --> 55:18.240]  I mean, as you pointed out, Randy, it's the government building, and it's supposed to have equal access.
[55:18.240 --> 55:26.240]  And, you know, they may be private managers, but if this were a restaurant, it might be a different issue.
[55:26.240 --> 55:31.240]  But this is a public building, and they can't refuse service to him just because they're mad at him.
[55:31.240 --> 55:39.240]  See, my question comes up. How did they manage to keep him from ignoring their ban?
[55:39.240 --> 55:41.240]  Say that again.
[55:41.240 --> 55:48.240]  How did they keep him from ignoring their banning him from the building?
[55:48.240 --> 55:58.240]  You know, let me tell you that the sequence of events was he wrote the letter, which the mayor and everybody else received.
[55:58.240 --> 56:06.240]  Later, they wrote him a letter, mostly emails, saying, we demand that you apologize for this.
[56:06.240 --> 56:12.240]  He actually sarcastically apologized by saying, I'm sorry, you're incompetent.
[56:12.240 --> 56:15.240]  But for all practical purposes, he didn't apologize.
[56:15.240 --> 56:24.240]  Then what happened was they gave him a deadline to apologize, which was sometime in January.
[56:24.240 --> 56:26.240]  He did not.
[56:26.240 --> 56:31.240]  About a week later, he went into the building on a routine manner, you know,
[56:31.240 --> 56:40.240]  and he was stopped at the door by the two people who ran the facility, the two top people.
[56:40.240 --> 56:46.240]  And they confronted him and told him that you were banned from the building permanently,
[56:46.240 --> 56:52.240]  and you are not welcome here, and we have the right to refuse service to you.
[56:52.240 --> 56:56.240]  And he actually recorded this.
[56:56.240 --> 57:00.240]  At one time, this was up on the Internet, and he left.
[57:00.240 --> 57:05.240]  He then got a lawyer and was threatening to sue them.
[57:05.240 --> 57:11.240]  But what they've done is basically I don't think they've done anything in issuing a court order or anything.
[57:11.240 --> 57:13.240]  He just has not challenged them.
[57:13.240 --> 57:20.240]  He hasn't physically gone onto the property since then to say, I can come here.
[57:20.240 --> 57:28.240]  They told him that he could not come under the building, he did not use the facility.
[57:28.240 --> 57:31.240]  They said he couldn't even send them an email.
[57:31.240 --> 57:34.240]  He had to communicate by way of the U.S. Postal Service.
[57:34.240 --> 57:37.240]  He couldn't phone them.
[57:37.240 --> 57:42.240]  And so that was, as I say, he got a lawyer.
[57:42.240 --> 57:48.240]  The lawyer was somebody who specializes in this, but he wanted, you know,
[57:48.240 --> 57:55.240]  he didn't want to do it completely for free and basically backed out on it.
[57:55.240 --> 58:02.240]  He should go to the building and have them tell them what they will do if he doesn't leave.
[58:02.240 --> 58:05.240]  Yeah, and what does this mean? He can't send an email.
[58:05.240 --> 58:07.240]  I mean, give me a break. What are they going to do?
[58:07.240 --> 58:09.240]  This sounds like grade school.
[58:09.240 --> 58:16.240]  I mean, if they haven't issued a court order, I mean, I just don't see how anything like that can be enforced.
[58:16.240 --> 58:20.240]  I mean, and again, what Randy is saying, it's a public building.
[58:20.240 --> 58:23.240]  I'll explain what that is after the break.
[58:23.240 --> 58:30.240]  Yeah, and another thing that I want to know is I want to know who really controls the programming at Austin Cable Access.
[58:30.240 --> 58:35.240]  I mean, if people are paying for this with their tax dollars when they subscribe to cable
[58:35.240 --> 58:39.240]  and cable time orders taken out of their hide too with the fees,
[58:39.240 --> 58:44.240]  I mean, we should have a say regarding the programming.
[58:44.240 --> 58:48.240]  I mean, so then the city contracts out the management, blah, blah, blah.
[58:48.240 --> 58:56.240]  I mean, no, no, no, no. This this is ridiculous. OK, we're we're this is all about the mainstream media and getting the word out.
[58:56.240 --> 59:20.240]  We'll be right back.
[59:26.240 --> 59:50.240]  OK.
[59:50.240 --> 01:00:09.240]  You are listening to the rule of law radio network and rule of law radio dot com live free speech talk radio at its best.
[01:00:20.240 --> 01:00:35.240]  Yeah.
[01:00:35.240 --> 01:00:37.240]  Yeah.
[01:00:37.240 --> 01:01:04.240]  I'm not sure.
[01:01:04.240 --> 01:01:08.240]  OK, we are back. This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens.
[01:01:08.240 --> 01:01:16.240]  We're here with our newest host, Gary Johnson, longtime activist, libertarian.
[01:01:16.240 --> 01:01:22.240]  Been on his show and, of course, Jeff Davis show, Terry Liberty Parker, one of my best friends.
[01:01:22.240 --> 01:01:30.240]  Miss him dearly and shout out to Sasan and, of course, Lorraine and the whole crew out there.
[01:01:30.240 --> 01:01:41.240]  OK, we're going to get to the bottom of this. All right. So, Randy, you you have a take on the legal issue regarding these guys banning him from the property.
[01:01:41.240 --> 01:01:44.240]  I mean, they can't deny him access to public building, right?
[01:01:44.240 --> 01:01:57.240]  Yeah, I just read the book and the book says that if you threaten someone for the purpose of denying them access to a public building or interrupting their access to a public building,
[01:01:57.240 --> 01:02:02.240]  that is a terroristic threat. That's what I charged the district judge with.
[01:02:02.240 --> 01:02:07.240]  When he told me to get out of the building, Ronnie, he'd have me arrested.
[01:02:07.240 --> 01:02:21.240]  Said I was creating a disturbance. But if these guys, if the building is a public building and the program is supported by public funds,
[01:02:21.240 --> 01:02:28.240]  these guys fall under color law. They don't just get to do whatever they want.
[01:02:28.240 --> 01:02:42.240]  That's where I was going with this, Randy, because just because the city council contracts out the management or whatever to a private entity and then somehow Time Warner gets a hand in it.
[01:02:42.240 --> 01:02:47.240]  If the whole thing is a government project to begin with in a government building,
[01:02:47.240 --> 01:02:55.240]  these guys are not going to just be able to skate out of this just because they say, oh, we're private contractors. Is that right? They're still accountable.
[01:02:55.240 --> 01:02:59.240]  That's right. They're actually under color, the authority of the city of Austin.
[01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:01.240]  That's what I wanted to hear.
[01:03:01.240 --> 01:03:08.240]  In fact, they're actually even more accountable and more easily to get to because they're not government officials.
[01:03:08.240 --> 01:03:10.240]  They don't have immunity.
[01:03:10.240 --> 01:03:12.240]  That's right.
[01:03:12.240 --> 01:03:30.240]  I should point out that Nick Papatones, his lawyer, was going to argue it's a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1876 and also the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment issue in its legal axis.
[01:03:30.240 --> 01:03:39.240]  I should point out that the management, the key to Nick, is violating a couple of rules, and I don't have the letter in front of me.
[01:03:39.240 --> 01:03:42.240]  But the rules were very general.
[01:03:42.240 --> 01:03:44.240]  It was like disrupting the operation.
[01:03:44.240 --> 01:03:48.240]  This was the letter.
[01:03:48.240 --> 01:03:57.240]  The letter that called them incompetent, the email I should say, was the whole basis of all this.
[01:03:57.240 --> 01:04:06.240]  Well, if you look up the rules, and again, I don't have them in front of me, but even if he were found guilty of violating the rules, if they accused him of violating,
[01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:09.240]  the penalty was not permanent expulsion.
[01:04:09.240 --> 01:04:14.240]  It was eight hours of labor and a $100 fine.
[01:04:14.240 --> 01:04:21.240]  Even if you had done what they accused him of, which was disrupting the operation.
[01:04:21.240 --> 01:04:28.240]  To me, disrupting the operation would be I'm doing a live TV show and somebody walks into the studio during the show.
[01:04:28.240 --> 01:04:30.240]  That's a disruption.
[01:04:30.240 --> 01:04:34.240]  Sending an email calling the management incompetent is not a disruption.
[01:04:34.240 --> 01:04:36.240]  So I don't even think he broke the rule.
[01:04:36.240 --> 01:04:43.240]  But even if you had broken the rule as they threw the book at you, permanent expulsion from the building was not the listed penalty.
[01:04:43.240 --> 01:04:50.240]  Well, the thing is, even if it was, it doesn't matter because this is where their Achilles' heel is.
[01:04:50.240 --> 01:04:52.240]  This is a public building.
[01:04:52.240 --> 01:04:59.240]  Okay, if this was a complete and total 100 percent private entity from start to finish,
[01:04:59.240 --> 01:05:06.240]  well, they can make whatever rules they want and they can fire people and kick them out for an email all day long.
[01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:14.240]  But because this is a public building and this whole, from what I understand from what you were telling me earlier,
[01:05:14.240 --> 01:05:22.240]  this whole operation from the get-go is a government program.
[01:05:22.240 --> 01:05:31.240]  Okay, and they have contracted out private entities to manage it and it's filtered down and Time Warner takes money from here and there
[01:05:31.240 --> 01:05:34.240]  and the government takes money from here and there.
[01:05:34.240 --> 01:05:47.240]  Okay, but the umbrella over the top is that the cable access channel, whatever they want to call it now, is a government program.
[01:05:47.240 --> 01:05:50.240]  Okay, and it's the government building.
[01:05:50.240 --> 01:05:53.240]  As you put it, the umbrella is the government operation.
[01:05:53.240 --> 01:06:00.240]  They may contract it out to a private corporation, non-private corporation, but the government is in control.
[01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:06.240]  It's mandated by the franchise, which is the government regulation.
[01:06:06.240 --> 01:06:08.240]  The government runs it.
[01:06:08.240 --> 01:06:11.240]  They own the building and so forth.
[01:06:11.240 --> 01:06:13.240]  It's the government operation.
[01:06:13.240 --> 01:06:17.240]  The private company is performing a governmental function.
[01:06:17.240 --> 01:06:20.240]  Exactly, the government is contracting out to a private company.
[01:06:20.240 --> 01:06:29.240]  And the problem is if government employees were performing those functions, they would enjoy qualified immunity.
[01:06:29.240 --> 01:06:33.240]  I'll tell you what, they would be much better off if they were government employees.
[01:06:33.240 --> 01:06:37.240]  They are really shooting themselves in the foot here.
[01:06:37.240 --> 01:06:40.240]  They don't realize how vulnerable they are actually.
[01:06:40.240 --> 01:06:46.240]  They think they're getting out of something, but they're actually stepping into something.
[01:06:46.240 --> 01:07:00.240]  Well, this is the case of Nick Papatonis, and he's one, and a few other producers have been harassed in very minor ways,
[01:07:00.240 --> 01:07:03.240]  just like not allowing them to renew their membership.
[01:07:03.240 --> 01:07:07.240]  Yes, you pay a membership fee each year.
[01:07:07.240 --> 01:07:13.240]  Don Bennett complained about the management, and they wouldn't allow him to renew his membership.
[01:07:13.240 --> 01:07:25.240]  So you just have to walk on eggshells down there to make sure you don't get into trouble with them.
[01:07:25.240 --> 01:07:29.240]  Well, who is ZIM anyway?
[01:07:29.240 --> 01:07:32.240]  I mean, who runs the programming?
[01:07:32.240 --> 01:07:38.240]  Okay, well, the programming is, let me, ZIM is not necessarily a program.
[01:07:38.240 --> 01:07:50.240]  ZIM is Linda Latowski, who is the executive director, and ZIM was Gary Wilkerson, who was the general manager.
[01:07:50.240 --> 01:07:51.240]  He is left.
[01:07:51.240 --> 01:07:55.240]  He now works for the Austin Independent School District.
[01:07:55.240 --> 01:08:03.240]  But the two of them formed Public Access Community Television, Inc., which is the company the city contracted to,
[01:08:03.240 --> 01:08:07.240]  and they are the two that told Nick Papatonis he's banned from the building.
[01:08:07.240 --> 01:08:10.240]  And they told him this in person.
[01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:13.240]  The programming is handled by the staff.
[01:08:13.240 --> 01:08:21.240]  And, you know, I'm not too upset about the actual programming.
[01:08:21.240 --> 01:08:25.240]  I'm surprised that they're not doing scheduled programming.
[01:08:25.240 --> 01:08:32.240]  But in terms of, you know, who actually, the people who actually decide which show runs at which time,
[01:08:32.240 --> 01:08:35.240]  I haven't noticed any political pull.
[01:08:35.240 --> 01:08:38.240]  You mentioned the City Council earlier, Deborah.
[01:08:38.240 --> 01:08:43.240]  And the City Council really has had a kind of a hands-off attitude.
[01:08:43.240 --> 01:08:50.240]  At one time, you may recall that Austin had something called the Austin Music Network, which is Channel 15.
[01:08:50.240 --> 01:09:03.240]  And at one time, a couple of City Council members tried to interfere with that, but they pulled back because of public outcry.
[01:09:03.240 --> 01:09:09.240]  I haven't really seen the City Council here try to influence the programming.
[01:09:09.240 --> 01:09:14.240]  I know that this has happened in other cities like Houston where the City Council got very involved with Public Access.
[01:09:14.240 --> 01:09:25.240]  But the programming itself seems to be pretty fair, except for this recent thing where we don't have scheduled programs.
[01:09:25.240 --> 01:09:30.240]  We have random programs.
[01:09:30.240 --> 01:09:31.240]  Okay.
[01:09:31.240 --> 01:09:40.240]  Well, I want to bring up a more philosophical issue before we let Randy go off on his tirade about how we're going to go after these guys.
[01:09:40.240 --> 01:09:49.240]  I have a basic fundamental problem with calling this tax, quote, unquote, a tax,
[01:09:49.240 --> 01:09:58.240]  because it's not really a tax across the board because unless you subscribe to cable, you're not paying it.
[01:09:58.240 --> 01:09:59.240]  I don't pay it.
[01:09:59.240 --> 01:10:01.240]  Right.
[01:10:01.240 --> 01:10:02.240]  So how can...
[01:10:01.240 --> 01:10:04.240]  Well, there are lots of taxes you don't pay.
[01:10:04.240 --> 01:10:06.240]  It's an excise tax because you can avoid it.
[01:10:06.240 --> 01:10:09.240]  It's an excise tax, yeah.
[01:10:09.240 --> 01:10:12.240]  And actually, you know, the people who pay it are the ones who get cable.
[01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:14.240]  They're the ones who get the public access.
[01:10:14.240 --> 01:10:17.240]  I mean, you may not watch it.
[01:10:17.240 --> 01:10:28.240]  Well, I mean, okay, on a more fundamental level, I mean, okay, and this may be more a topic for your show than the rule of law because now we're getting to ideology.
[01:10:28.240 --> 01:10:41.240]  But I don't know that I feel right about the government doing excise taxes at all because it's not a fair tax, so to speak.
[01:10:41.240 --> 01:10:42.240]  I mean, they're just...
[01:10:42.240 --> 01:10:50.240]  The government's just raking off the top of people who are engaging in the free market to purchase a product that they want.
[01:10:50.240 --> 01:10:53.240]  So I don't know.
[01:10:53.240 --> 01:10:54.240]  It's not fair.
[01:10:54.240 --> 01:10:56.240]  It's not fair.
[01:10:56.240 --> 01:11:03.240]  I mean, if it's a tax, then let's everybody get taxed, and I want to get taxed, and I'll pay the tax,
[01:11:03.240 --> 01:11:11.240]  and I want to see the cable access whether or not I subscribe to cable, I want to watch it on the Internet, okay, or however else.
[01:11:11.240 --> 01:11:15.240]  Part of this is the question whether or not public access is really a public service.
[01:11:15.240 --> 01:11:17.240]  That's where I was going with this.
[01:11:17.240 --> 01:11:20.240]  And I'm not sure it is, to tell you the truth.
[01:11:20.240 --> 01:11:26.240]  I know this is, you know, I always get criticized, what are you libertarians doing on public access, you know?
[01:11:26.240 --> 01:11:29.240]  I mean, Terry Logan's always beating up on me about this.
[01:11:29.240 --> 01:11:31.240]  I don't know if we should be on public access.
[01:11:31.240 --> 01:11:34.240]  I used to beat up on Terry Parker about that, too.
[01:11:34.240 --> 01:11:35.240]  Yeah.
[01:11:35.240 --> 01:11:40.240]  But, you know, my excuse, and it's nothing but an excuse, is, well, you know, I paid for it.
[01:11:40.240 --> 01:11:42.240]  As long as I'm paying for it, I might as well use it.
[01:11:42.240 --> 01:11:46.240]  See, whether or not I use public access is a voluntary thing.
[01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:50.240]  But as long as I'm subscribing to cable, I don't have a choice of paying that tax.
[01:11:50.240 --> 01:11:56.240]  I do have a choice of subscribing to cable, but I don't have a choice of paying that tax if I subscribe to cable.
[01:11:56.240 --> 01:12:02.240]  So I get a mandatory tax, but I get a voluntary use of the benefits that I pay for.
[01:12:02.240 --> 01:12:07.240]  So I might as well use it, but that's more of an excuse than a reason.
[01:12:07.240 --> 01:12:10.240]  Right.
[01:12:10.240 --> 01:12:15.240]  Well, so where do you see it all going from here?
[01:12:15.240 --> 01:12:17.240]  I mean...
[01:12:17.240 --> 01:12:21.240]  Well, you know, Debra, you alluded to it a moment ago.
[01:12:21.240 --> 01:12:24.240]  You said you don't watch television.
[01:12:24.240 --> 01:12:25.240]  This is funny.
[01:12:25.240 --> 01:12:27.240]  I'm encountering this.
[01:12:27.240 --> 01:12:29.240]  At first, they did upset me.
[01:12:29.240 --> 01:12:35.240]  Some of my friends, you know, I noticed they weren't watching my show anymore, and I thought, Jesus, it's terrible.
[01:12:35.240 --> 01:12:40.240]  Then I found, you know, talking to them a little bit more, I found out, well, they don't have cable TV anymore.
[01:12:40.240 --> 01:12:42.240]  It's not that they're not watching my show.
[01:12:42.240 --> 01:12:45.240]  They don't have cable.
[01:12:45.240 --> 01:12:49.240]  The number of people who are subscribing to cable actually is going down.
[01:12:49.240 --> 01:12:52.240]  I do know that they might watch television on the Internet.
[01:12:52.240 --> 01:12:58.240]  They might watch The Daily Show or The Office or something, but they don't watch it on TV.
[01:12:58.240 --> 01:13:00.240]  They watch it on their computer.
[01:13:00.240 --> 01:13:05.240]  So things are changing, and it's...
[01:13:05.240 --> 01:13:09.240]  I keep going back to Dick Papatonis, but he's on the Internet.
[01:13:09.240 --> 01:13:21.240]  He's not on public access, but he has an Internet panel on bogulus.com, and he's there.
[01:13:21.240 --> 01:13:30.240]  So part of the thing with Nick is when this hit him, he was really upset, but he's sort of moved on.
[01:13:30.240 --> 01:13:31.240]  Well, you know what?
[01:13:31.240 --> 01:13:37.240]  I really appreciate you saying this because this brings up a very important point about the nature of the media
[01:13:37.240 --> 01:13:45.240]  and how it is brought to us, and you're talking about people that don't subscribe to cable.
[01:13:45.240 --> 01:13:51.240]  And I would have loved to have watched so many of your shows and was not able to,
[01:13:51.240 --> 01:13:56.240]  and Jeff Davis and these other wonderful shows, but I don't have cable.
[01:13:56.240 --> 01:14:00.240]  So you have to have cable, so you're restricted to the nature of the media.
[01:14:00.240 --> 01:14:10.240]  Well, that is why radio is so powerful, and you were mentioning earlier about how they ended analog TV today.
[01:14:10.240 --> 01:14:11.240]  Well, guess what?
[01:14:11.240 --> 01:14:15.240]  Analog radio ain't over, and I don't think it's ever going to be.
[01:14:15.240 --> 01:14:22.240]  In fact, AM and FM radio, talk radio specifically, is more powerful than ever,
[01:14:22.240 --> 01:14:26.240]  and that's why it's so important because we are on the air.
[01:14:26.240 --> 01:14:31.240]  When I say we're on the air, I don't mean we're just on the Internet or we're on cable.
[01:14:31.240 --> 01:14:35.240]  We are literally on the air.
[01:14:35.240 --> 01:14:44.240]  You can pick us up with your receiver in your car or wherever inside your house on over 15 different cities in this country,
[01:14:44.240 --> 01:14:52.240]  Minneapolis, Maple Grove, we've got Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Omaha, Nebraska, Madison, Wisconsin, Oklahoma City,
[01:14:52.240 --> 01:14:58.240]  South Bend, Indiana, Austin, Texas, Tulsa, Indianapolis.
[01:14:58.240 --> 01:15:02.240]  We've got St. Louis, Missouri.
[01:15:02.240 --> 01:15:03.240]  We've got Oregon.
[01:15:03.240 --> 01:15:06.240]  We've got Corvallis, Albany, Oregon.
[01:15:06.240 --> 01:15:08.240]  It's very crucial.
[01:15:08.240 --> 01:15:12.240]  It's very important that we're getting this message out.
[01:15:12.240 --> 01:15:17.240]  It's like I'm sick of it, the mainstream media with the way they're trying to control everything
[01:15:17.240 --> 01:15:21.240]  and Time Warner with the hands and the tentacles and the whole thing.
[01:15:21.240 --> 01:15:24.240]  It's just discombobulated.
[01:15:24.240 --> 01:15:27.240]  They're trying to twist everything around and they don't want to take responsibility,
[01:15:27.240 --> 01:15:30.240]  but they want to take all the money, you know?
[01:15:30.240 --> 01:15:37.240]  Well, digital TV is going to change things because it will open up a massive number of channels.
[01:15:37.240 --> 01:15:40.240]  Yeah, but again, you have to be on that cable.
[01:15:40.240 --> 01:15:46.240]  But that digital can be used for something a whole lot more sinister than that, Randy, for what it can be done with,
[01:15:46.240 --> 01:15:53.240]  plus the fact that if you've paid attention to all the new digital TVs and recorder boxes and your cable boxes,
[01:15:53.240 --> 01:15:59.240]  a lot of these things are coming with cameras hidden in the bezels of the electronics themselves.
[01:15:59.240 --> 01:16:03.240]  So they're actually watching you watch them, and they also have microphones with them,
[01:16:03.240 --> 01:16:10.240]  so they're listening to you as you watch them, and they can hear you and see you even when your TV is not working.
[01:16:10.240 --> 01:16:14.240]  Senator.
[01:16:14.240 --> 01:16:17.240]  We need to figure out how to disable those.
[01:16:17.240 --> 01:16:21.240]  You have to take the machine apart and pull the card that it's mounted on,
[01:16:21.240 --> 01:16:24.240]  but you've got to find it in this circuitry around the edge.
[01:16:24.240 --> 01:16:28.240]  But it's there.
[01:16:28.240 --> 01:16:31.240]  Throw the TV away, people.
[01:16:31.240 --> 01:16:35.240]  Get rid of your TV.
[01:16:35.240 --> 01:16:37.240]  All together.
[01:16:37.240 --> 01:16:40.240]  Okay, look, we want to start taking some calls.
[01:16:40.240 --> 01:16:43.240]  When we get back on the other side, callers, if you'd like to call in,
[01:16:43.240 --> 01:16:49.240]  speak with Gary or Randy or Eddie or myself, or if you'd like to bring up other topics, that's fine.
[01:16:49.240 --> 01:16:55.240]  And when we get back on the other side, Randy, I want to hear how we're going to socket to these guys at cable access.
[01:16:55.240 --> 01:16:59.240]  It's ridiculous.
[01:16:59.240 --> 01:17:06.240]  Are you looking for an investment that has no stock market risk, has a 100% track record of returning profits,
[01:17:06.240 --> 01:17:11.240]  is not affected by fluctuations in oil prices and interest rates,
[01:17:11.240 --> 01:17:14.240]  is publicly traded and SEC regulated?
[01:17:14.240 --> 01:17:18.240]  If this kind of peace of mind is what you have been looking for in an investment,
[01:17:18.240 --> 01:17:21.240]  then life settlements is the investment for you.
[01:17:21.240 --> 01:17:27.240]  Our annual rate of return has been 15.83% for the last 17 years.
[01:17:27.240 --> 01:17:31.240]  Our investments are insurance and banking commission regulated.
[01:17:31.240 --> 01:17:35.240]  Our returns are assured by the largest insurance companies.
[01:17:35.240 --> 01:17:41.240]  Even qualified retirement plans such as 401Ks and IRAs are eligible for transfer.
[01:17:41.240 --> 01:17:44.240]  We charge absolutely no commissions.
[01:17:44.240 --> 01:17:47.240]  100% of your investment goes to work for you.
[01:17:47.240 --> 01:17:56.240]  Please visit sleepwellinvestment.com or call Bill Schober at 817-975-2431.
[01:17:56.240 --> 01:18:22.240]  That's sleepwellinvestment.com or call 817-975-2431.
[01:18:22.240 --> 01:18:35.240]  We were born before the wind, also younger than the sun.
[01:18:35.240 --> 01:18:45.240]  And the bonnie boat was one as we sailed into the mystique.
[01:18:45.240 --> 01:18:58.240]  Oh, I can now hear the sailors cry, smell the sea and feel the sky.
[01:18:58.240 --> 01:19:09.240]  Let your soul and spirit fly into the mystique.
[01:19:09.240 --> 01:19:20.240]  And when that fall corn blows, I will be coming home.
[01:19:20.240 --> 01:19:27.240]  And when the fall corn blows, I wanna leave you alone.
[01:19:27.240 --> 01:19:37.240]  I don't have the fear that I wanna rock your gypsy soul.
[01:19:37.240 --> 01:19:43.240]  Just like way back in the days of old.
[01:19:43.240 --> 01:20:10.240]  And magnificently we will fall into the mystique.
[01:20:10.240 --> 01:20:27.240]  When that fall corn blows, you know I will be coming home.
[01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:44.240]  And when that fall corn blows, I gotta hear it, I don't have the fear that I wanna rock your gypsy soul.
[01:20:44.240 --> 01:20:49.240]  Just like way back in the days of old.
[01:20:49.240 --> 01:20:58.240]  And together we will fall into the mystique.
[01:20:58.240 --> 01:21:20.240]  Come on, girl.
[01:21:20.240 --> 01:21:33.240]  Too late to stop now.
[01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:35.240]  Okay, we are back, The Rule of Law.
[01:21:35.240 --> 01:21:47.240]  We're here with Gary Johnson, longtime activist, libertarian and community producer, television producer, television host, trusted friend,
[01:21:47.240 --> 01:21:51.240]  newest host on Rule of Law Radio Network.
[01:21:51.240 --> 01:21:57.240]  And we of course also have Eddie Craig, our newest co-host on Rule of Law Radio.
[01:21:57.240 --> 01:22:00.240]  Eddie Craig, Randy Kelso and myself.
[01:22:00.240 --> 01:22:03.240]  And we have John Bush, another host here on the network.
[01:22:03.240 --> 01:22:05.240]  John, thank you for calling in tonight.
[01:22:05.240 --> 01:22:07.240]  You have some news for us.
[01:22:07.240 --> 01:22:08.240]  Yes.
[01:22:08.240 --> 01:22:09.240]  Hello, Deborah.
[01:22:09.240 --> 01:22:10.240]  Hello, everybody else.
[01:22:10.240 --> 01:22:11.240]  Welcome to the family.
[01:22:11.240 --> 01:22:12.240]  Gary, Eddie.
[01:22:12.240 --> 01:22:13.240]  Thank you.
[01:22:13.240 --> 01:22:14.240]  Rock and roll.
[01:22:14.240 --> 01:22:27.240]  Yeah, so the city of Austin is holding some budgetary town hall hearings to get the community's feedback on how they're gonna overcome this $30 million budget deficit that we currently have
[01:22:27.240 --> 01:22:30.240]  and that we're gonna be facing for the 2010 budget year.
[01:22:30.240 --> 01:22:33.240]  And basically, so we have some agendas of course.
[01:22:33.240 --> 01:22:35.240]  We just started up a new group.
[01:22:35.240 --> 01:22:41.240]  We've been meeting the past couple months to take the fluoride out of the city of Austin water for obvious reasons.
[01:22:41.240 --> 01:22:42.240]  It's toxic.
[01:22:42.240 --> 01:22:49.240]  You know, it's against our liberty to basically force medication upon us, go on forever, yada, yada, yada.
[01:22:49.240 --> 01:22:53.240]  But that's one of the things that would definitely be a good idea to cut out of the budget.
[01:22:53.240 --> 01:22:54.240]  Here's a great idea.
[01:22:54.240 --> 01:22:58.240]  How about we save a million dollars a year by simply choosing not to poison ourselves?
[01:22:58.240 --> 01:23:06.240]  Another thing is the Proposition 2 battle we had here in town, which was a grassroots petition-led drive to stop the city of Austin from giving,
[01:23:06.240 --> 01:23:15.240]  it was gonna be $65 million worth of subsidies, but now, of course, in these tough economic times, people aren't buying to the point of $65 million.
[01:23:15.240 --> 01:23:20.240]  But basically, they're gonna give subsidies to this fancy mall that we have here in North Austin called The Domain.
[01:23:20.240 --> 01:23:22.240]  There's another way to cut the budget.
[01:23:22.240 --> 01:23:32.240]  Based on a lawsuit that Brian Rogers, who led the Proposition 2 campaign, filed, the city of Austin is not obligated legally to pay these payments, so it's entirely voluntary.
[01:23:32.240 --> 01:23:34.240]  Basically, we planned on showing up at these meetings.
[01:23:34.240 --> 01:23:36.240]  One of them took place on the 10th.
[01:23:36.240 --> 01:23:37.240]  It was last Wednesday.
[01:23:37.240 --> 01:23:40.240]  The second one's gonna be on the 15th, and the third one's gonna be on the 16th.
[01:23:40.240 --> 01:23:43.240]  Well, we get a report from somebody that showed up on the 10th.
[01:23:43.240 --> 01:23:44.240]  Her name's Linda Green.
[01:23:44.240 --> 01:23:49.240]  She's a longtime activist here in town, and she's one of the leaders in the anti-fluoride battle to stop the fluoridation of the water.
[01:23:49.240 --> 01:24:01.240]  And basically, the way that the meeting went down, and this is great because it'll tie in perfectly with the Agenda 21 talk, is that the meeting is structured in a way that it's the consensus process.
[01:24:01.240 --> 01:24:04.240]  It's also very similar to the Delphi technique.
[01:24:04.240 --> 01:24:06.240]  Basically, it's a controlled meeting.
[01:24:06.240 --> 01:24:12.240]  They label it as a town hall where the citizens can come in and voice their opposition or what they think should happen with the budget.
[01:24:12.240 --> 01:24:22.240]  But really what it is, is you go in, there's about 20 tables, you break up into eight little groups, and they have some sort of game on the table where you put chips that are based on value on different things,
[01:24:22.240 --> 01:24:27.240]  and each time it goes around in different cycles, and you vote on which one you want to have cut, and then you continue on the next round.
[01:24:27.240 --> 01:24:29.240]  If something didn't get voted on, you vote it on again.
[01:24:29.240 --> 01:24:31.240]  It always has to have consensus.
[01:24:31.240 --> 01:24:41.240]  Well, at each table, there's a mediator, and I'm not even 100% sure if this is an official mediator or if it's just somebody that's sitting there, positioned at the table in order to control the opinion.
[01:24:41.240 --> 01:24:48.240]  But either way, this meeting, written all the way across it, is total consensus controlled process.
[01:24:48.240 --> 01:24:52.240]  It's controlled by the state, controlled by the stakeholders who are supposed to be checked.
[01:24:52.240 --> 01:25:01.240]  It's supposed to be the people come in, and we were planning on showing up and saying, here's a great idea, cut a million dollars out of the budget, stop poisoning ourselves.
[01:25:01.240 --> 01:25:09.240]  But now that's not even one of the options, of course, because the status quo and the industry, whatever, city council is controlled by all these special interests.
[01:25:09.240 --> 01:25:14.240]  So I'm calling everybody in the city of Austin to show up on the 15th and especially the 16th.
[01:25:14.240 --> 01:25:23.240]  And what we're going to do is basically, I define, I use the term ops rather loosely, operation, intelligence operation, black ops, spy ops, whatever.
[01:25:23.240 --> 01:25:24.240]  There's always ops going on.
[01:25:24.240 --> 01:25:28.240]  Glenn Beck is an example of an op going on right now against the Ron Paul movement.
[01:25:28.240 --> 01:25:41.240]  There's an op going on right now which is hoping to label patriots and libertarians and liberty lovers and activists as right-wing extremists, simultaneously why the state is trying to link Al-Qaeda with these right-wing extremists.
[01:25:41.240 --> 01:25:42.240]  It's a massive op.
[01:25:42.240 --> 01:25:45.240]  There's an op going on within the city of Austin locally, a budget op.
[01:25:45.240 --> 01:25:46.240]  These meetings are an op.
[01:25:46.240 --> 01:25:49.240]  They're using the Delphi technique, the consensus process.
[01:25:49.240 --> 01:25:51.240]  It's a controlled meeting.
[01:25:51.240 --> 01:25:56.240]  So what we're going to do is we're going to go in there with a lot of people, and we're going to op the op.
[01:25:56.240 --> 01:25:57.240]  They're trying to control it.
[01:25:57.240 --> 01:26:04.240]  So what we're going to do is try to get enough people to go to where we have one person at each table, and we take over the moderating.
[01:26:04.240 --> 01:26:08.240]  And they have their own little control thing with only a select list of 15 items to cut out of the budget.
[01:26:08.240 --> 01:26:12.240]  We're going to show up with proposed items like, hey, how about we cut out some surveillance cameras?
[01:26:12.240 --> 01:26:15.240]  Or how about we cut out this police state measure here?
[01:26:15.240 --> 01:26:18.240]  Or how about we stop buying fluoride, which is poison?
[01:26:18.240 --> 01:26:23.240]  How about we don't give the $60 million subsidy to the domain mall?
[01:26:23.240 --> 01:26:35.240]  We're going to come in with our own documents, and we're going to try to get people to have a consensus that regardless, it's either should we not give $50,000 to a domain luxury mall,
[01:26:35.240 --> 01:26:40.240]  not buy another $500,000 worth of fluorosilicic acid chemical byproduct?
[01:26:40.240 --> 01:26:44.240]  Or should we cut the library hours on the east side?
[01:26:44.240 --> 01:26:48.240]  Or should we close down three pools that are barely getting used?
[01:26:48.240 --> 01:26:54.240]  And we're going to get the actual people to have a voice, because unfortunately, a lot of people walk into there expecting to be able to voice their opinion,
[01:26:54.240 --> 01:26:56.240]  expecting for democracy to work.
[01:26:56.240 --> 01:26:59.240]  But as many of us activists realize, that's not the case.
[01:26:59.240 --> 01:27:00.240]  It's controlled.
[01:27:00.240 --> 01:27:07.240]  So we're going to show up, and we're basically going to fight and turn it into a true, genuine town hall meeting.
[01:27:07.240 --> 01:27:10.240]  So everybody in Austin, I'd definitely love to invite you out.
[01:27:10.240 --> 01:27:14.240]  On the 15th, it's going to be at the Gus Garcia Recreation Center.
[01:27:14.240 --> 01:27:17.240]  That's 1201 East Runberg Lane.
[01:27:17.240 --> 01:27:22.240]  The 15th at 630 p.m., Gus Garcia Recreation Center, 1201 East Runberg Lane.
[01:27:22.240 --> 01:27:28.240]  Tuesday, June 16th, it's at the Tony Berger Activity Center, 3200 Jones Road in South Austin.
[01:27:28.240 --> 01:27:32.240]  We're going to try to turn up the most people to the 16th, but we'd like the people to come to both.
[01:27:32.240 --> 01:27:33.240]  We're going to be at both.
[01:27:33.240 --> 01:27:35.240]  And you can check out PAGTexas.org.
[01:27:35.240 --> 01:27:36.240]  Not right now, but tomorrow.
[01:27:36.240 --> 01:27:37.240]  We'll have the details up.
[01:27:37.240 --> 01:27:39.240]  Also, you could just go to the City of Austin website.
[01:27:39.240 --> 01:27:41.240]  Just Google City of Austin.
[01:27:41.240 --> 01:27:42.240]  It's there on the front page.
[01:27:42.240 --> 01:27:44.240]  It's like the third or fourth item down on the little post.
[01:27:44.240 --> 01:27:46.240]  It'll say a town hall meeting called.
[01:27:46.240 --> 01:27:48.240]  But of course, it's not a town hall meeting.
[01:27:48.240 --> 01:27:54.240]  But what we're going to do is we're going to go in there, and we're going to ensure that the opinions of the voice of the people is heard.
[01:27:54.240 --> 01:27:58.240]  And we need you to come out and make it a success.
[01:27:58.240 --> 01:28:01.240]  Well, John, this is just excellent work.
[01:28:01.240 --> 01:28:09.240]  What I really appreciate the most about this is that instead of fighting against something, you're coming with a plan.
[01:28:09.240 --> 01:28:10.240]  Okay?
[01:28:10.240 --> 01:28:12.240]  It's like this is what we want.
[01:28:12.240 --> 01:28:14.240]  This is what we're going to do.
[01:28:14.240 --> 01:28:15.240]  Okay?
[01:28:15.240 --> 01:28:17.240]  I really, really like that a lot.
[01:28:17.240 --> 01:28:22.240]  You know, and then these people are complaining about money and, oh, the $30 million deficit and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[01:28:22.240 --> 01:28:29.240]  But yeah, like you bring up, the domain subsidies and the fluoride and the red light cameras and all the surveillance cameras.
[01:28:29.240 --> 01:28:39.240]  Well, why don't we cut out some of this unnecessary surveillance and corporate welfare, and maybe we won't have these deficit problems.
[01:28:39.240 --> 01:28:40.240]  That's right.
[01:28:40.240 --> 01:28:47.240]  And if the citizens are to get active and participate, because I've been reading a lot of Murray Rothbard, and he talks a lot about the nature of the state.
[01:28:47.240 --> 01:28:54.240]  Basically, he calls the state a parasite because it's the only entity that's able to survive off of somebody else's property, somebody else's wealth.
[01:28:54.240 --> 01:29:00.240]  Well, there's a whole group of parasites that see this, and they flock to the state, and this is the bureaucracy and all the special interests.
[01:29:00.240 --> 01:29:11.240]  Meanwhile, the normal people, the ones that are paying for all this, that are paying for all the bureaucratic salaries and paying for all the CEOs and the industries that are sucking off the tea to the state, they're the ones that are getting screwed.
[01:29:11.240 --> 01:29:19.240]  They're the ones that are not participating because they're the ones that are in the minority of actual the people that show up because they don't feel that they have a stake in the game or they don't feel that they have power.
[01:29:19.240 --> 01:29:21.240]  And here's the truth of the matter.
[01:29:21.240 --> 01:29:29.240]  Unfortunately, in many instances, the system is set up for them not to have power, and the way that they're going to run this meeting, and it's going to be a wonderful learning experience too,
[01:29:29.240 --> 01:29:38.240]  but based on two reports that I've had on the way that the meeting was ran, it is total consensus process, which is going to be a new shift that we're going to start to see more and more often.
[01:29:38.240 --> 01:29:53.240]  I mentioned Agenda 21 talks because Agenda 21 and the actual document from 1993, they call for stakeholder groups to come together, councils to come together in different regions to execute the philosophy of sustainable development,
[01:29:53.240 --> 01:30:00.240]  which of course can be deciphered into basic total control of private property, total control of everything, total control of people and commerce and traffic.
[01:30:00.240 --> 01:30:10.240]  And the way that they do this is rather than having elected a true Republican form of democracy where people have a say or at least they elect their representatives,
[01:30:10.240 --> 01:30:17.240]  this is going to be formed by stakeholder groups, simple councils of bureaucratic and non-government entities coming together to make the decision.
[01:30:17.240 --> 01:30:18.240]  That's the way that they're going to execute it.
[01:30:18.240 --> 01:30:29.240]  That's the way they executed and envisioned Central Texas, which is the planning group that we have here in Central Texas, which actually was directly called for in Agenda 21, the 1993 document.
[01:30:29.240 --> 01:30:35.240]  They call for different regional roundtable stakeholder groups to come together to execute Agenda 21 and the global biodiversity assessment.
[01:30:35.240 --> 01:30:40.240]  And the manner in which they do it is a controlled manner where they have mediators and they have people running the meeting.
[01:30:40.240 --> 01:30:43.240]  This is exactly what we see here with the city budget.
[01:30:43.240 --> 01:30:55.240]  And here we have the opportunity to not just lay down, to go in there, to educate the citizens that are truly there, that genuinely care, and hopefully we can allow for a true democratic process to take place.
[01:30:55.240 --> 01:30:57.240]  And basically what we're going to do is we're going to opt the opt.
[01:30:57.240 --> 01:30:59.240]  It's going to be fun.
[01:30:59.240 --> 01:31:09.240]  Well, John, this is exactly what we've been talking about with Gary Johnson all night long, the fact that you've got this government run entity,
[01:31:09.240 --> 01:31:14.240]  but they're contracting out to private organizations to run the thing.
[01:31:14.240 --> 01:31:16.240]  This is exactly what you're saying.
[01:31:16.240 --> 01:31:29.240]  I'm starting to figure out if there's some way that we can put this issue regarding cable access on the table at this meeting.
[01:31:29.240 --> 01:31:30.240]  I'm not sure.
[01:31:30.240 --> 01:31:31.240]  I'm not familiar.
[01:31:31.240 --> 01:31:38.240]  I know that there's going to be a lot of changes, but it seems like taking the cable access off the air or whatever is going down would actually help the budget.
[01:31:38.240 --> 01:31:39.240]  Not that I'm advocating for that.
[01:31:39.240 --> 01:31:40.240]  I'm just uninformed on what's going on.
[01:31:40.240 --> 01:31:41.240]  I don't know.
[01:31:41.240 --> 01:31:42.240]  Gary?
[01:31:42.240 --> 01:31:46.240]  I am familiar with this Delphi thing.
[01:31:46.240 --> 01:31:47.240]  You call them mediators.
[01:31:47.240 --> 01:31:53.240]  I've heard them called facilitators, and I think it's brilliant, John, to you just get enough people into one of those little groups,
[01:31:53.240 --> 01:31:58.240]  and you just outdo the facilitators, because that's what they do.
[01:31:58.240 --> 01:32:00.240]  They manipulate the whole thing.
[01:32:00.240 --> 01:32:06.240]  They call on certain people, and if you say something they like, they write it up on the blackboard.
[01:32:06.240 --> 01:32:10.240]  If you say something they don't like, they say, oh, well, let's talk about this a little bit more.
[01:32:10.240 --> 01:32:12.240]  The whole game is rigged.
[01:32:12.240 --> 01:32:21.240]  They stack the deck, and so you've got to have people in there pushing things, pushing the agenda, offing the off, as you say.
[01:32:21.240 --> 01:32:22.240]  That's right.
[01:32:22.240 --> 01:32:24.240]  That's why it's so important for us to show up.
[01:32:24.240 --> 01:32:31.240]  I've come to learn in the past few years of hardcore activism that the most important thing you can do is simply show up.
[01:32:31.240 --> 01:32:34.240]  Just show up, and here's two opportunities that we have.
[01:32:34.240 --> 01:32:40.240]  Monday, June 15th, at Gus Garcia Recreation Center, 1201 East Runberg Lane.
[01:32:40.240 --> 01:32:45.240]  It's going to be in northeast Austin, and then Tuesday, June 16th, Tony Berger Activity Center, 3200 Jones Road.
[01:32:45.240 --> 01:32:47.240]  Again, just Google City of Austin.
[01:32:47.240 --> 01:32:49.240]  It's on the front page of the website, the link.
[01:32:49.240 --> 01:32:54.240]  It'll be something like Mark Odkos for town hall meetings or whatnot, but yeah, that's exactly what it is.
[01:32:54.240 --> 01:32:55.240]  They're facilitators.
[01:32:55.240 --> 01:33:00.240]  That's what they're called, and basically they control the show, so if we're aware of this,
[01:33:00.240 --> 01:33:06.240]  this is what my whole activism has been based on recently, what you do is you take all the conspiracies and whatnot,
[01:33:06.240 --> 01:33:13.240]  Agenda 21 and the big things, you break them down, you boil them down, you study them, you analyze them, and you realize how they work.
[01:33:13.240 --> 01:33:16.240]  You really got to give the establishment.
[01:33:16.240 --> 01:33:21.240]  I don't think it's one big monolith, but there is a lot of special interests, and there are different oligarchies that are at play here.
[01:33:21.240 --> 01:33:25.240]  But what you do is you got to give them a lot of credit because they've planned this out for years and years and years.
[01:33:25.240 --> 01:33:31.240]  But if you study the way that they execute these things, it always takes place at the local level, and one of their biggest tools,
[01:33:31.240 --> 01:33:36.240]  one of the biggest means for their end, which is Agenda 21 by total population control,
[01:33:36.240 --> 01:33:42.240]  total property control by a small group of people, you take what they do, and one of their means,
[01:33:42.240 --> 01:33:45.240]  one of the ways to execute this is through the consensus process.
[01:33:45.240 --> 01:33:47.240]  So it looks like, wow, we came to a wonderful agreement.
[01:33:47.240 --> 01:33:49.240]  Isn't this beautiful, everyone?
[01:33:49.240 --> 01:33:54.240]  It's all harmony, and there's birds and doves flying around in the air, but really it's controlled opposition,
[01:33:54.240 --> 01:33:58.240]  and they put different people in different parts of the room, and yeah, if somebody says something that's controversial
[01:33:58.240 --> 01:34:01.240]  or that's against the status quo, they shoot it down, they ignore it.
[01:34:01.240 --> 01:34:04.240]  Somebody says something that's obviously part of the agenda.
[01:34:04.240 --> 01:34:08.240]  They have people positioned in the crowd to start clapping and whatnot, and the Delphi technique,
[01:34:08.240 --> 01:34:16.240]  I learned about it from Jeter Griffin, it's a way that in meetings they position people on the outskirts in different parts of the group.
[01:34:16.240 --> 01:34:21.240]  So when somebody says something that's for the status quo or for what they're trying to accomplish out of the meeting,
[01:34:21.240 --> 01:34:25.240]  then the other people say, oh yeah, that's a great idea, so it makes it seem to the person just sitting there,
[01:34:25.240 --> 01:34:30.240]  you know, just a normal Joe, that wow, there must be a lot of support for such a thing.
[01:34:30.240 --> 01:34:34.240]  This is something that you really got to, we really got to be aware of because it's happening all the time,
[01:34:34.240 --> 01:34:40.240]  and yes, the tentacles of whatever you want to call it, whatever this nasty thing, I'll call it the state, hell,
[01:34:40.240 --> 01:34:43.240]  the state is entirely illegitimate lately in my eyes, so it is the state.
[01:34:43.240 --> 01:34:54.240]  It's a nasty state-run industry, just gobbapoo, sorry, and it's trying to control our lives,
[01:34:54.240 --> 01:34:59.240]  so we need to get up there and just basically say no.
[01:34:59.240 --> 01:35:02.240]  Op-the-op, gobbapoo.
[01:35:02.240 --> 01:35:08.240]  Well, I agree, John, and I mean, you know, talking about the cable access thing, cable access channel,
[01:35:08.240 --> 01:35:16.240]  I mean, yeah, you're right, budgetary cut, but, you know, my take on the whole thing is if we're going to be taxed for it,
[01:35:16.240 --> 01:35:19.240]  we should have control over it, okay?
[01:35:19.240 --> 01:35:23.240]  If we're not going to have control over it, then we shouldn't be taxed on,
[01:35:23.240 --> 01:35:27.240]  because it's not fair that they tax us, but then we don't have control.
[01:35:27.240 --> 01:35:29.240]  That's just pure thievery.
[01:35:29.240 --> 01:35:32.240]  Mm-hmm, for sure, but that's always the case.
[01:35:32.240 --> 01:35:34.240]  Of course.
[01:35:34.240 --> 01:35:42.240]  Well, and speaking of showing up, you have a very special interview coming up this Wednesday, don't you?
[01:35:42.240 --> 01:35:45.240]  Oh, man, I announced it on my last show.
[01:35:45.240 --> 01:35:47.240]  The chief actually had to cancel.
[01:35:47.240 --> 01:35:49.240]  Uh-huh.
[01:35:49.240 --> 01:35:51.240]  And he's going to reschedule.
[01:35:51.240 --> 01:35:55.240]  I mean, they've got their hands full with the – there's a lot going on now, unfortunately.
[01:35:55.240 --> 01:36:00.240]  It seems like there's some slip-ups, but I'll definitely have them back on.
[01:36:00.240 --> 01:36:04.240]  I don't know if there's some sinister behind it, but we'll have them back on for sure.
[01:36:04.240 --> 01:36:09.240]  That's good for me, because I plan on being in jail on next Wednesday.
[01:36:09.240 --> 01:36:13.240]  Oh, that's funny.
[01:36:13.240 --> 01:36:14.240]  Oh, John.
[01:36:14.240 --> 01:36:15.240]  Okay, well, this is great.
[01:36:15.240 --> 01:36:16.240]  Thank you, John, for the update.
[01:36:16.240 --> 01:36:18.240]  We really appreciate it.
[01:36:18.240 --> 01:36:24.240]  Yeah, and again, check out TAGSTexas.org, probably tomorrow, late afternoon, if you want the details,
[01:36:24.240 --> 01:36:27.240]  or go to the City of Austin website, and then there's two places again.
[01:36:27.240 --> 01:36:32.240]  Monday, June 15th, at 630 p.m., the Gus Garcia Recreation Center,
[01:36:32.240 --> 01:36:37.240]  1201 East Runberg Lane, and then Tuesday, June 16th, at 630 p.m.,
[01:36:37.240 --> 01:36:40.240]  Tony Berger Activity Center, 3200 Jones Road.
[01:36:40.240 --> 01:36:42.240]  We're trying to have a lot of people show up.
[01:36:42.240 --> 01:36:44.240]  All I've got to do is show up and participate.
[01:36:44.240 --> 01:36:46.240]  We're going to op the op.
[01:36:46.240 --> 01:36:49.240]  I'm going to – the table that I sit at, I can guarantee you, unless they got some –
[01:36:49.240 --> 01:36:53.240]  unless they got some that really knows what they're doing, I will manage my table,
[01:36:53.240 --> 01:36:56.240]  and I'll manage it in a manner that the people – and I'll even go to other people.
[01:36:56.240 --> 01:36:58.240]  What's going on in your neighborhood?
[01:36:58.240 --> 01:37:01.240]  They're giving us a list of pre-prepared stuff that they want to let go,
[01:37:01.240 --> 01:37:07.240]  because it's not going to piss off any of their buddies that fill up their trough when it comes election time.
[01:37:07.240 --> 01:37:11.240]  So we show up, we give the people a voice, and it's beautiful.
[01:37:11.240 --> 01:37:16.240]  Democracy can be a really beautiful thing, as long as the people participate,
[01:37:16.240 --> 01:37:19.240]  and they hold the government in check, and they don't allow for the special interests
[01:37:19.240 --> 01:37:21.240]  to get their greedy hands all over it.
[01:37:21.240 --> 01:37:25.240]  And I do think that we have a good system, but there's a necessary caveat,
[01:37:25.240 --> 01:37:29.240]  and it's that there's active and educated citizens that are constantly participating
[01:37:29.240 --> 01:37:32.240]  and keeping a watchful eye on them.
[01:37:32.240 --> 01:37:35.240]  Well, John, I want to point out that this isn't really local.
[01:37:35.240 --> 01:37:41.240]  This consensus, the facilitator, mediator, Delphi, it's being done all over the country.
[01:37:41.240 --> 01:37:47.240]  It seems to be local, but they're doing these same kind of things in towns all over the country.
[01:37:47.240 --> 01:37:49.240]  You're right. You're right. And that's why it's so beautiful.
[01:37:49.240 --> 01:37:53.240]  Here we have an opportunity for those that are fighting this big new world order.
[01:37:53.240 --> 01:37:58.240]  Here we have an opportunity to cut off the tentacles that are reaching its way into Austin,
[01:37:58.240 --> 01:38:00.240]  because, again, this whole consensus process,
[01:38:00.240 --> 01:38:06.240]  especially a lot of this green push in Vision Central, Texas, the City Climate Protection Plan,
[01:38:06.240 --> 01:38:10.240]  the point-of-sale ordinance where you've got to do an energy audit
[01:38:10.240 --> 01:38:12.240]  and give the state all the records of all your energy and appliances.
[01:38:12.240 --> 01:38:17.240]  This is all part of a bigger scheme, a grander agenda, which is illustrated,
[01:38:17.240 --> 01:38:19.240]  which is enumerated in Agenda 21.
[01:38:19.240 --> 01:38:22.240]  That's totally Agenda 21. Totally.
[01:38:22.240 --> 01:38:24.240]  It's going to be an opportunity to cut it off and stop it,
[01:38:24.240 --> 01:38:29.240]  because if we go toe-to-toe with Al Gore, if we go toe-to-toe with the Rothschild family,
[01:38:29.240 --> 01:38:32.240]  or toe-to-toe with the head of the U.N. Secretary General,
[01:38:32.240 --> 01:38:36.240]  it's going to be like an ant fighting Mike Tyson in his prime.
[01:38:36.240 --> 01:38:40.240]  But if we go toe-to-toe with Mark Onn or with the mediators sitting across from the table,
[01:38:40.240 --> 01:38:42.240]  then it's going to be an equal battle.
[01:38:42.240 --> 01:38:43.240]  We have all our power on the local level,
[01:38:43.240 --> 01:38:48.240]  and this instance illustrates the perfect opportunity to make real success,
[01:38:48.240 --> 01:38:51.240]  to stop the new world order, whatever you want to call it, here at the local level.
[01:38:51.240 --> 01:38:56.240]  And yes, Gary, that's why it's so beautiful.
[01:38:56.240 --> 01:38:58.240]  Yeah, we've got to stop it at the local level.
[01:38:58.240 --> 01:39:01.240]  And you're right, John, this is total Agenda 21.
[01:39:01.240 --> 01:39:07.240]  Total Agenda 21, this whole greening thing and the environmentalism.
[01:39:07.240 --> 01:39:12.240]  I mean, not that I'm into pollution or anything, but this is a fraud.
[01:39:12.240 --> 01:39:13.240]  It's a total fraud.
[01:39:13.240 --> 01:39:18.240]  It's a total scam to tax us and control our private property
[01:39:18.240 --> 01:39:24.240]  and control every move we make under the guise of protecting the environment.
[01:39:24.240 --> 01:39:25.240]  That's right.
[01:39:25.240 --> 01:39:27.240]  And we're not going to let it happen here in central Texas.
[01:39:27.240 --> 01:39:31.240]  And those of you that are listed in other states, don't let it happen over there either.
[01:39:31.240 --> 01:39:36.240]  You can bet your bottom dollar that the exact same type of activity is happening in your neck of the woods.
[01:39:36.240 --> 01:39:38.240]  So here's what's a beautiful thing about this radio network,
[01:39:38.240 --> 01:39:43.240]  it presents us the opportunity to network across state lines and to fight the same battle,
[01:39:43.240 --> 01:39:49.240]  all fighting the same battle in the end and to share with each other our victories and whatnot and fits and tactics.
[01:39:49.240 --> 01:39:52.240]  So I'll be on the radio next Wednesday,
[01:39:52.240 --> 01:39:57.240]  and I'll give you a report on how it went down on Monday and Tuesday and what we learned from everything.
[01:39:57.240 --> 01:39:58.240]  All right, thanks, John.
[01:39:58.240 --> 01:39:59.240]  I appreciate it.
[01:39:59.240 --> 01:40:00.240]  All right, guys.
[01:40:00.240 --> 01:40:01.240]  You all have a wonderful night.
[01:40:01.240 --> 01:40:02.240]  Thanks for having me on.
[01:40:02.240 --> 01:40:03.240]  Okay, thank you.
[01:40:03.240 --> 01:40:04.240]  All right, good-bye.
[01:40:04.240 --> 01:40:07.240]  Bye.
[01:40:07.240 --> 01:40:10.240]  Okay, there you go.
[01:40:10.240 --> 01:40:12.240]  We have a chance to stop it.
[01:40:12.240 --> 01:40:17.240]  Agenda 21 in action here in Austin.
[01:40:17.240 --> 01:40:18.240]  Everybody better show up.
[01:40:18.240 --> 01:40:19.240]  Right, Randy?
[01:40:19.240 --> 01:40:21.240]  Yes, I agree.
[01:40:21.240 --> 01:40:23.240]  And I'm going to have to be out of town,
[01:40:23.240 --> 01:40:29.240]  but I would very much like to see what they're actually trying to do here.
[01:40:29.240 --> 01:40:34.240]  I'd like to see the structure of what they're putting together.
[01:40:34.240 --> 01:40:41.240]  I'd like to figure out interesting ways of screwing it up.
[01:40:41.240 --> 01:40:43.240]  Indeed.
[01:40:43.240 --> 01:40:49.240]  Well, what I'm interested in is finding liens on these people's bonds.
[01:40:49.240 --> 01:40:50.240]  Multiple times.
[01:40:50.240 --> 01:40:51.240]  Eddie.
[01:40:51.240 --> 01:40:52.240]  Yes.
[01:40:52.240 --> 01:40:55.240]  Eddie, you have some comments on that issue, right?
[01:40:55.240 --> 01:40:59.240]  Yeah, I actually talked to the Agenda 21 folks tonight and Wendy up in Tennessee,
[01:40:59.240 --> 01:41:06.240]  who's had an ongoing battle with the city there and the state, agricultural society,
[01:41:06.240 --> 01:41:09.240]  as well as several federal courts.
[01:41:09.240 --> 01:41:13.240]  And what she said that she did, the first lien that she filed,
[01:41:13.240 --> 01:41:18.240]  she filed with the U.S. Department of Transportation.
[01:41:18.240 --> 01:41:23.240]  Then she also filed it, Randy, with the United States Coast Guard,
[01:41:23.240 --> 01:41:30.240]  which is what her hope was by filing it with these agencies that she was making the lien go national outside of Tennessee.
[01:41:30.240 --> 01:41:32.240]  Maritime.
[01:41:32.240 --> 01:41:33.240]  But that's what it is.
[01:41:33.240 --> 01:41:35.240]  It's a maritime lien.
[01:41:35.240 --> 01:41:43.240]  The way it's explained to me is that since the courts and the government themselves are operating under admiralty law,
[01:41:43.240 --> 01:41:47.240]  then they can't just declare these liens invalid
[01:41:47.240 --> 01:41:52.240]  because they are using the exact same process to steal the people's property.
[01:41:52.240 --> 01:41:59.240]  So any attempt to invalidate a lien placed on them using the same rules and procedures
[01:41:59.240 --> 01:42:04.240]  would be used to invalidate any liens they themselves have imposed.
[01:42:04.240 --> 01:42:09.240]  Now, that's the understanding that I've gotten out of it so far, which makes perfect sense.
[01:42:09.240 --> 01:42:15.240]  So let's hope that as I dig deeper into this, that that's exactly how it turns out.
[01:42:15.240 --> 01:42:20.240]  Well, that makes sense to me because from all the research that Randy has shown me
[01:42:20.240 --> 01:42:23.240]  and the cases he's mounting and the arguments he's mounting,
[01:42:23.240 --> 01:42:31.240]  it's like he's using their entire jurisprudence against themselves to the point where they can't deny it,
[01:42:31.240 --> 01:42:36.240]  they can't rule against it because if they do, they will destroy their own system.
[01:42:36.240 --> 01:42:37.240]  That's right.
[01:42:37.240 --> 01:42:38.240]  That's exactly the problem.
[01:42:38.240 --> 01:42:42.240]  They're hoping that we won't notice the house of cards
[01:42:42.240 --> 01:42:46.240]  and that we won't knock out one of the walls that will cause it all to fall down.
[01:42:46.240 --> 01:42:51.240]  But by the same token, if we stand our ground with these liens against them,
[01:42:51.240 --> 01:42:58.240]  they cannot afford to kick one of the walls out of the card house because then they knock it down and they all lose.
[01:42:58.240 --> 01:43:03.240]  Unlike the system where we're fighting right now, Randy, with the criminal complaints and so on and so forth,
[01:43:03.240 --> 01:43:09.240]  they're able to dance around the rules because they themselves aren't actually using those rules.
[01:43:09.240 --> 01:43:12.240]  They're using a whole different set they're not telling us about.
[01:43:12.240 --> 01:43:19.240]  So I think this, according to what they've said, so far they haven't,
[01:43:19.240 --> 01:43:24.240]  they haven't leaned a $10 billion lien filed against a federal court in Tennessee.
[01:43:24.240 --> 01:43:34.240]  The court cannot get the lien removed because any judge that would attempt to remove it would be violating the law.
[01:43:34.240 --> 01:43:38.240]  A $10 billion lien against what court in Tennessee?
[01:43:38.240 --> 01:43:42.240]  I don't know. They didn't give me the specific number of the court.
[01:43:42.240 --> 01:43:44.240]  Oh, boy.
[01:43:44.240 --> 01:43:48.240]  Wendy's got it filed or Tim Turner does, one of the two.
[01:43:48.240 --> 01:43:50.240]  Okay. All right. We're going to talk about this morning.
[01:43:50.240 --> 01:43:58.240]  The side callers, if you'd like to call in, we're going to open up the phone lines 512-646-1984.
[01:44:20.240 --> 01:44:23.240]  We're going to talk about this morning.
[01:44:50.240 --> 01:44:52.240]  It's a great way to change your life.
[01:44:52.240 --> 01:45:20.240]  So call 908-691-2608 or visit us at hempusa.org today.
[01:45:20.240 --> 01:45:24.240]  Something in this world I will never understand.
[01:45:24.240 --> 01:45:28.240]  Something I realize fully.
[01:45:28.240 --> 01:45:33.240]  Somebody's gonna police that police man.
[01:45:33.240 --> 01:45:37.240]  Somebody's gonna police the police.
[01:45:37.240 --> 01:45:42.240]  There's always a room at the top of the hill.
[01:45:42.240 --> 01:45:46.240]  I hear things are great, fine, and it's lonely there too.
[01:45:46.240 --> 01:45:50.240]  They're wishing it was more than opposition to fail.
[01:45:50.240 --> 01:45:54.240]  They know that if they don't do it, somebody will.
[01:45:54.240 --> 01:45:58.240]  Something in this world I will never understand.
[01:45:58.240 --> 01:46:02.240]  Something I realize fully.
[01:46:02.240 --> 01:46:07.240]  Somebody's gonna police that police man.
[01:46:07.240 --> 01:46:11.240]  Somebody's gonna police the police.
[01:46:11.240 --> 01:46:13.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:13.240 --> 01:46:16.240]  Yeah, they're gonna put the bill.
[01:46:16.240 --> 01:46:17.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:17.240 --> 01:46:20.240]  See, so much in God's detail.
[01:46:20.240 --> 01:46:21.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:21.240 --> 01:46:24.240]  Never fail to reach it back to scale.
[01:46:24.240 --> 01:46:25.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:25.240 --> 01:46:28.240]  Never fail to reach it back to scale.
[01:46:28.240 --> 01:46:32.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:32.240 --> 01:46:35.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:35.240 --> 01:46:37.240]  I never know.
[01:46:37.240 --> 01:46:38.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:38.240 --> 01:46:43.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:43.240 --> 01:46:45.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:45.240 --> 01:46:46.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:46.240 --> 01:46:49.240]  Went down to that old rock quarry the other day.
[01:46:49.240 --> 01:46:50.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:50.240 --> 01:46:53.240]  That's where I heard that old rock quarry man say.
[01:46:53.240 --> 01:46:54.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:54.240 --> 01:46:58.240]  He knew I always have a place for my head to lay.
[01:46:58.240 --> 01:46:59.240]  I know they will.
[01:46:59.240 --> 01:47:02.240]  I still have my truck wave goodbye and drove away.
[01:47:02.240 --> 01:47:03.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:03.240 --> 01:47:06.240]  Something in this world I will never understand.
[01:47:06.240 --> 01:47:08.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:08.240 --> 01:47:10.240]  I'm real life fooling.
[01:47:10.240 --> 01:47:11.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:11.240 --> 01:47:14.240]  Somebody's gonna call the police.
[01:47:14.240 --> 01:47:15.240]  I'm only a man.
[01:47:15.240 --> 01:47:16.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:16.240 --> 01:47:19.240]  Somebody's gonna pull the police.
[01:47:19.240 --> 01:47:21.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:21.240 --> 01:47:22.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:22.240 --> 01:47:24.240]  Yeah, they're gonna put the bill.
[01:47:24.240 --> 01:47:25.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:25.240 --> 01:47:28.240]  See, so much in God's detail.
[01:47:28.240 --> 01:47:29.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:29.240 --> 01:47:32.240]  Never fail to reach it back to scale.
[01:47:32.240 --> 01:47:33.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:33.240 --> 01:47:38.240]  I will never fail to sit that back to scale.
[01:47:38.240 --> 01:47:41.240]  Yeah, I will never fail to sit back to scale.
[01:47:41.240 --> 01:47:45.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:45.240 --> 01:47:49.240]  I will never fail.
[01:47:49.240 --> 01:47:53.240]  I know they will.
[01:47:53.240 --> 01:47:56.240]  I know they well fail.
[01:47:56.240 --> 01:47:58.240]  Never save.
[01:47:58.240 --> 01:48:02.240]  I will never fail to step back that scale.
[01:48:02.240 --> 01:48:20.700]  Alright, Judge I Never Will fail to tip back the scales, neither will we.
[01:48:20.700 --> 01:48:28.860]  We are here, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Gary Johnson, myself Deborah Stevens, and we are
[01:48:28.860 --> 01:48:36.360]  taking your calls, open lines, open minds, any topic, any subject you wish to talk about.
[01:48:36.360 --> 01:48:46.080]  512-646-1984, we've got a caller JD from Texas, hey JD, what's on your mind tonight?
[01:48:46.080 --> 01:48:55.280]  Yeah Deborah, this is JD out of Austin, I was just calling 90.110 Fier here in Austin,
[01:48:55.280 --> 01:48:59.720]  so I was just giving a call to make sure you're still up and running.
[01:48:59.720 --> 01:49:06.040]  We are, I just got word, I'm on it, I'm doing something about it right now, in the meantime
[01:49:06.040 --> 01:49:12.440]  folks can listen to ruleoflawradio.com, the stream, you can go to our website, ruleoflawradio.com
[01:49:12.440 --> 01:49:16.460]  on the internet, and you can listen to the stream there, or you can listen to the listener
[01:49:16.460 --> 01:49:20.280]  line which is 512- Okay, go ahead.
[01:49:20.280 --> 01:49:33.720]  The listener line is 512-485-9010-484-485-485, okay, and what's the last three?
[01:49:33.720 --> 01:49:38.200]  9010-10, okay Debbie, thank you.
[01:49:38.200 --> 01:49:47.440]  All right, thank you JD, thank you for listening, such diligent, attentive listeners.
[01:49:47.440 --> 01:49:53.160]  Okay so, let me give you an analogy here, I want to go back into this whole lean thing,
[01:49:53.160 --> 01:50:01.640]  okay, all right, my parents and my sister and I, we adopted a parrot, actually a parrot
[01:50:01.640 --> 01:50:08.840]  and a cockatoo when we lived at home, all right, Lucy, African Grey, one of the smartest
[01:50:08.840 --> 01:50:15.680]  creatures on the planet, in the animal kingdom, all right, they can do math, they, it's just
[01:50:15.680 --> 01:50:20.320]  incredible if you do any study on African Grey parrots, well at any rate, you know,
[01:50:20.320 --> 01:50:24.320]  you have to train the parrots and this sort of thing, you can't just let them fly around
[01:50:24.320 --> 01:50:28.760]  the house, we never clip their wings, but you can't let them just go crazy because they'll
[01:50:28.760 --> 01:50:34.400]  chew on electrical cables, they'll kill themselves, right, so, you know, I don't know how I feel
[01:50:34.400 --> 01:50:38.520]  about keeping pets in cages, but anyway, that's what happened when I was a child, it wasn't
[01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:42.920]  my choice, you know, that's just the way it was, at any rate, you let them out, but then
[01:50:42.920 --> 01:50:50.200]  there's times they have to go back in the cage, okay, and so, here, here was the deal,
[01:50:50.200 --> 01:50:56.720]  very strong beaks, they'll take the finger off, they'll take the hand off, okay, seriously,
[01:50:56.720 --> 01:51:01.360]  you do not want to mess with these parrots or cockatoo, actually cockatoo is a stronger
[01:51:01.360 --> 01:51:05.680]  beak than parrot, at any rate, when it's time to go back in the cage, what's going to make
[01:51:05.680 --> 01:51:12.080]  them go, okay, you don't want to mess with these birds, really, in general, claws, everything,
[01:51:12.080 --> 01:51:18.320]  so, my mother, she has a big glove, a big leather glove that she puts on her left hand,
[01:51:18.320 --> 01:51:24.680]  and she holds it out, Lucy, step up, okay, step up on, on my hand, time to go back in
[01:51:24.680 --> 01:51:28.320]  your cage, and believe me, the bird knows what that means, the bird tells the other
[01:51:28.320 --> 01:51:32.800]  bird it's time to go back in the cage, okay, well, what's going to make the bird go back
[01:51:32.800 --> 01:51:39.080]  in the cage, here's, here's the analogy I'm trying to create, to me, the statutory law
[01:51:39.080 --> 01:51:45.760]  and the constitutional law is like the glove, the cage, this is what has to be done, this
[01:51:45.760 --> 01:51:50.720]  is the right thing that has to be done, it needs to be done, God was given dominion over
[01:51:50.720 --> 01:51:55.040]  the creatures, I mean, who knows if these African greys would have gone extinct if,
[01:51:55.040 --> 01:51:58.600]  you know, we weren't taking care of them, okay, it's a philosophical argument I don't
[01:51:58.600 --> 01:52:02.960]  want to get into, but at any rate, I see the statutory law is like the cage and the glove,
[01:52:02.960 --> 01:52:08.400]  right, well, what's going to make them do it, okay, as many people have pointed out,
[01:52:08.400 --> 01:52:14.360]  they throw the criminal complaints in the trash, all right, it's like how are you going
[01:52:14.360 --> 01:52:19.320]  to make them do it, okay, how are you going to make them obey the constitution, how are
[01:52:19.320 --> 01:52:25.640]  you going to make the government behave and abide by our rights, all right, they are our
[01:52:25.640 --> 01:52:28.840]  public servants, well, how are you going to make them, okay, well, the way I see it, there's
[01:52:28.840 --> 01:52:34.960]  like two ways to make them, either violence or, which we do not promote on this show or
[01:52:34.960 --> 01:52:41.520]  in my life at all, or another way, okay, here's what my mother does, she takes a newspaper
[01:52:41.520 --> 01:52:47.160]  and she holds it up over her head and over the bird's head, okay, and she goes to the
[01:52:47.160 --> 01:52:53.960]  bird and says, Lucy, step up, step up, okay, well, if it weren't for that paper, if it
[01:52:53.960 --> 01:53:00.280]  weren't for that newspaper holding over the head, that fear, okay, of infliction, some
[01:53:00.280 --> 01:53:06.640]  kind of threatening, the bird would not step up, I promise you, okay, well, this is the
[01:53:06.640 --> 01:53:13.760]  way I see it, that newspaper that my mom's holding over the bird to put the fear to step
[01:53:13.760 --> 01:53:23.160]  up, that is the commercial lien, okay, that is our lien on their bond to make them behave
[01:53:23.160 --> 01:53:29.840]  and abide by our constitutional God-given right and our statutory law, so that's kind
[01:53:29.840 --> 01:53:32.280]  of my little analogy there.
[01:53:32.280 --> 01:53:36.240]  That's a good one, Deborah, can I interject one?
[01:53:36.240 --> 01:53:37.240]  Sure.
[01:53:37.240 --> 01:53:41.960]  Let's go with your parrot analogy.
[01:53:41.960 --> 01:53:46.800]  You take a parrot, completely misbehaves, it learns to talk, it learns some words you
[01:53:46.800 --> 01:53:50.640]  don't like and you're trying to teach it not to use those words, but all it does is get
[01:53:50.640 --> 01:53:56.320]  routier and worse and routier and worse and you spend weeks, months, years trying to untrain
[01:53:56.320 --> 01:54:02.120]  all the garbage this parrot has picked up, but it doesn't improve and the parrot is very,
[01:54:02.120 --> 01:54:07.800]  very good at what it does, it can even almost hold conversations with you now, so finally
[01:54:07.800 --> 01:54:12.440]  one day the parrot starts cussing you a blue streak, well, you snatch the parrot up, you
[01:54:12.440 --> 01:54:17.800]  run into the kitchen, throw it in the freezer and leave it for 20 minutes, 20 minutes later
[01:54:17.800 --> 01:54:22.640]  you go and you take the parrot out of the freezer, it's calm, it's polite, it is addressing
[01:54:22.640 --> 01:54:28.680]  you in a respectful manner and you look at the parrot and you say, all right, why are
[01:54:28.680 --> 01:54:29.680]  you being so nice?
[01:54:29.680 --> 01:54:33.440]  He's going, oh, it just seemed like a good idea, I've suddenly seen the light, but can
[01:54:33.440 --> 01:54:38.440]  I ask you a question and you say, well, of course, what did the chicken in the freezer
[01:54:38.440 --> 01:54:39.440]  do?
[01:54:39.440 --> 01:54:40.440]  Oh, man.
[01:54:40.440 --> 01:54:48.480]  So, what we do is we take one of them and we make an example out of them that cannot
[01:54:48.480 --> 01:54:56.440]  be ignored, even if it is the lean over their head or their political death and burial,
[01:54:56.440 --> 01:55:01.880]  however you want to put it, but if we don't start making good examples out of some of
[01:55:01.880 --> 01:55:07.640]  these people to make the other ones toe the line, we're not going to get anywhere.
[01:55:07.640 --> 01:55:08.640]  My concern is...
[01:55:08.640 --> 01:55:13.520]  We don't have a big enough freezer?
[01:55:13.520 --> 01:55:19.440]  We need to proactively teach them how they should behave and not just beat them onto
[01:55:19.440 --> 01:55:20.440]  the path.
[01:55:20.440 --> 01:55:24.440]  Well, I would agree with that, but it's kind of like one of those inner city schools where
[01:55:24.440 --> 01:55:28.840]  the students don't want to be taught and will do everything possible to prevent you from
[01:55:28.840 --> 01:55:29.840]  teaching them.
[01:55:29.840 --> 01:55:33.440]  Even though it's for their own good, they don't want to hear it.
[01:55:33.440 --> 01:55:38.680]  It's like when you pull out your best team of mules and one of them don't want to work
[01:55:38.680 --> 01:55:39.680]  today.
[01:55:39.680 --> 01:55:43.640]  Where you go get a two before and you whack him upside the head with it, now you don't
[01:55:43.640 --> 01:55:49.320]  want to hurt him, you just want to get his attention.
[01:55:49.320 --> 01:55:52.400]  I like this idea.
[01:55:52.400 --> 01:55:59.520]  I do criminal complaints and that's all well and good, but you're right, it's long term.
[01:55:59.520 --> 01:56:01.480]  It takes a lot of...
[01:56:01.480 --> 01:56:03.080]  We need some extra leverage.
[01:56:03.080 --> 01:56:04.080]  Exactly.
[01:56:04.080 --> 01:56:08.320]  And I think the commercial law is really where it's at with the leans and stuff.
[01:56:08.320 --> 01:56:11.680]  And listen guys, we've got some callers on the line now, of course Gary Johnson's still
[01:56:11.680 --> 01:56:12.680]  with us.
[01:56:12.680 --> 01:56:15.520]  What do you guys say we go to some calls?
[01:56:15.520 --> 01:56:16.960]  Let's rock.
[01:56:16.960 --> 01:56:18.160]  Okay, let's rock.
[01:56:18.160 --> 01:56:23.320]  And unfortunately, we have some technical difficulties here with the internet.
[01:56:23.320 --> 01:56:28.120]  We're blessed, we're on the air, so forgive me callers, I don't know what your name is
[01:56:28.120 --> 01:56:30.080]  or what state you're from.
[01:56:30.080 --> 01:56:34.960]  I'm going to go to the first caller, Erica 303, thanks for calling in.
[01:56:34.960 --> 01:56:38.160]  What's your name and what state are you from and what's on your mind?
[01:56:38.160 --> 01:56:39.160]  Hello?
[01:56:39.160 --> 01:56:40.160]  Yes, go ahead.
[01:56:40.160 --> 01:56:42.680]  What is your name and what state are you from?
[01:56:42.680 --> 01:56:44.960]  Yeah, my name's Joe, I'm from Colorado.
[01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:47.960]  Hey Joe, from Colorado, what's on your mind tonight?
[01:56:47.960 --> 01:56:52.200]  Yeah, I was wondering if you were going to the gathering again this year.
[01:56:52.200 --> 01:56:53.200]  Yes, I am.
[01:56:53.200 --> 01:56:54.880]  The shows that you did on it last year.
[01:56:54.880 --> 01:56:55.880]  Yes, I am.
[01:56:55.880 --> 01:56:56.880]  I thought it was absolutely awesome.
[01:56:56.880 --> 01:56:57.880]  Yes, I am.
[01:56:57.880 --> 01:56:58.880]  Right on.
[01:56:58.880 --> 01:57:03.400]  I just was looking forward to hearing that and hearing about it.
[01:57:03.400 --> 01:57:07.880]  I certainly hope we don't have to do another show like we did last year.
[01:57:07.880 --> 01:57:08.880]  I agree.
[01:57:08.880 --> 01:57:09.880]  I agree.
[01:57:09.880 --> 01:57:17.280]  So yeah, they've settled on a site and stuff and people are there and it's starting to
[01:57:17.280 --> 01:57:18.280]  rock and roll.
[01:57:18.280 --> 01:57:19.960]  Oh, are you there?
[01:57:19.960 --> 01:57:22.720]  I'm not there yet, I'm leaving next week.
[01:57:22.720 --> 01:57:26.560]  Well, all right, well Joe, I hope I see you there.
[01:57:26.560 --> 01:57:27.560]  Right on.
[01:57:27.560 --> 01:57:32.320]  In fact, I'm sure you will probably meet each other, I'll be spinning fire.
[01:57:32.320 --> 01:57:34.680]  All right, I'll look for you.
[01:57:34.680 --> 01:57:36.120]  All right, Joe.
[01:57:36.120 --> 01:57:39.280]  She'll be the hot babe spinning the fire.
[01:57:39.280 --> 01:57:41.920]  Yeah, she'll be spinning fire at points too.
[01:57:41.920 --> 01:57:42.920]  No, no, no.
[01:57:42.920 --> 01:57:43.920]  I'm not going to spit fire.
[01:57:43.920 --> 01:57:44.920]  No.
[01:57:44.920 --> 01:57:45.920]  Awesome.
[01:57:45.920 --> 01:57:46.920]  All right.
[01:57:46.920 --> 01:57:47.920]  Thank you, Joe.
[01:57:47.920 --> 01:57:49.920]  And hey, can you hold on the fort until I get there?
[01:57:49.920 --> 01:57:50.920]  Absolutely.
[01:57:50.920 --> 01:57:51.920]  All right.
[01:57:51.920 --> 01:57:52.920]  Excellent.
[01:57:52.920 --> 01:57:56.600]  Last year got real interesting and we hope we can avoid that this year.
[01:57:56.600 --> 01:57:57.600]  Yeah.
[01:57:57.600 --> 01:58:03.680]  I tried to get you a care package, Debra, Israeli gas mask, bulletproof vest, things
[01:58:03.680 --> 01:58:04.680]  like that.
[01:58:04.680 --> 01:58:10.480]  Well, you know, it's kind of like, I wouldn't take it anyway.
[01:58:10.480 --> 01:58:17.360]  I mean, to me, the Rainbow Gathering, this is our ultimate expression and exercise of
[01:58:17.360 --> 01:58:18.360]  freedom.
[01:58:18.360 --> 01:58:19.360]  Okay.
[01:58:19.360 --> 01:58:26.840]  Randy and I and you and Gary, all of us, Terry Liberty Parker, Michael Banerich, Wes, Alex
[01:58:26.840 --> 01:58:32.080]  Jones, all of us, we spent our whole lives fighting for freedom.
[01:58:32.080 --> 01:58:36.480]  Well, it's like, I am going to enjoy my freedom.
[01:58:36.480 --> 01:58:37.480]  Okay.
[01:58:37.480 --> 01:58:38.480]  And this is the time.
[01:58:38.480 --> 01:58:41.880]  If the Fourth of July ain't it, then where is it?
[01:58:41.880 --> 01:58:42.880]  When is it?
[01:58:42.880 --> 01:58:43.880]  Okay.
[01:58:43.880 --> 01:58:45.720]  And it's like, I ain't taking no firearms.
[01:58:45.720 --> 01:58:48.360]  I ain't taking no gas masks.
[01:58:48.360 --> 01:58:50.960]  If they're going to come kill me, they're going to come kill me.
[01:58:50.960 --> 01:58:51.960]  Okay.
[01:58:51.960 --> 01:58:53.720]  I'm going and I'm going to enjoy myself.
[01:58:53.720 --> 01:58:55.680]  I'm going to spin my fire.
[01:58:55.680 --> 01:59:00.640]  I'm going to commune with nature and we'll be right back to take more of your calls.
[01:59:00.640 --> 01:59:02.640]  All right.
[01:59:02.640 --> 01:59:31.640]  All right.
[01:59:31.640 --> 01:59:54.900]  Thank you.