ROL_2009-05-23_16k_After_Midnight.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:07.000]  Okay, we are back with Officer Ben.
[00:07.000 --> 00:13.640]  We are blessed to be joined in overtime mode and overtime, yes, we are going into overtime
[00:13.640 --> 00:14.640]  after midnight.
[00:14.640 --> 00:20.360]  We appreciate Ben coming on because we want to understand and we want our listeners to
[00:20.360 --> 00:27.320]  understand where you live and Ben, you were telling us on the break that you know that
[00:27.320 --> 00:33.600]  there are officers who would arrest people on a heartbeat and make up a charge on the
[00:33.600 --> 00:40.360]  way to the jail and that you believe that in and of itself is a crime, is that correct?
[00:40.360 --> 00:42.240]  I do, I do.
[00:42.240 --> 00:48.600]  Yes, but how, what percentage would you say of policemen are like that?
[00:48.600 --> 00:55.280]  I would say that probably half or more and the reason I say that is because I think what
[00:55.280 --> 00:59.760]  happens to a lot of people from any walk of life, whether you are a police officer or
[00:59.760 --> 01:06.160]  a politician or you work in an office setting, at some point you are going to do something
[01:06.160 --> 01:09.000]  that would probably be out of character for you.
[01:09.000 --> 01:14.240]  In the authority position of a police officer they have a lot of decisions to make and in
[01:14.240 --> 01:21.200]  some cases it becomes sort of an ego thing, I am a police officer, I know the law better
[01:21.200 --> 01:28.920]  than you do and you can push it too far with some people and you can be arrested and you
[01:28.920 --> 01:36.200]  are going and it is very easy to bring anyone up on charges of disorderly conduct, threatening
[01:36.200 --> 01:44.280]  situations, inhibiting a police officer, you can sneeze in the wrong direction and a police
[01:44.280 --> 01:48.880]  officer could arrest you if the circumstances are right and that depends on how aggressive
[01:48.880 --> 01:53.880]  you have gotten, how combative you have gotten with a police officer.
[01:53.880 --> 02:02.480]  My point of saying that is that it does not matter what the law is and I think that people
[02:02.480 --> 02:08.960]  getting arrested for not actually breaking the law but only for in reality pissing off
[02:08.960 --> 02:18.320]  a police officer, I think it is illegal myself, but you will never ever ever ever stop that
[02:18.320 --> 02:25.000]  kind of thing, it is a fact, it always has been and it always will be unfortunately.
[02:25.000 --> 02:33.440]  If I could get the powers that be to direct the policeman to take the person directly
[02:33.440 --> 02:40.040]  to the magistrate and explain himself, 90% of this will just simply go away.
[02:40.040 --> 02:45.160]  Okay and I want to ask a question of Ben also and I understand what you are saying is true
[02:45.160 --> 02:53.160]  and that is what we all fear, going back to the fear thing, what do you think needs to
[02:53.160 --> 03:02.600]  be done so that the police would have more of a mindset of camaraderie or wanting to
[03:02.600 --> 03:11.160]  help us as non-police officers rather than if we sneeze the wrong way they are going
[03:11.160 --> 03:20.120]  to put us under the jail so to speak, I mean how can we bridge this gap so to speak where
[03:20.120 --> 03:25.560]  you are our friend, we are your friend, you are here to help us, you are here to protect
[03:25.560 --> 03:30.520]  us from real criminals, do you understand what I am saying, what do you think could
[03:30.520 --> 03:32.280]  help here?
[03:32.280 --> 03:39.160]  I do but I do not see anything helping, we are talking about just human nature and everything
[03:39.160 --> 03:44.600]  what I say does not apply to everyone but it applies to a lot of people.
[03:44.600 --> 03:46.720]  How does a person become a police officer?
[03:46.720 --> 03:52.120]  What drives a person to want to be a green beret or what makes someone want to become
[03:52.120 --> 03:53.720]  a ballet dancer?
[03:53.720 --> 04:00.640]  There are certain traits and characteristics and personality quirks that make people comfortable
[04:00.640 --> 04:09.000]  in the position of a police officer and it is not shy people, it is not quiet or unassuming
[04:09.000 --> 04:18.400]  people, it is take charge, it is aggressive, it usually has a physical bearing about them,
[04:18.400 --> 04:24.640]  there are reasons people become police officers and if you put enough of those people in there
[04:24.640 --> 04:31.960]  you are going to have a larger percentage of that type of personality that is, that
[04:31.960 --> 04:36.480]  wields authority over people and you are never going to get away from that, it is a cultural
[04:36.480 --> 04:39.280]  thing and it is important.
[04:39.280 --> 04:47.800]  Let me ask you another question Ben and this may go to you all's training, when you all
[04:47.800 --> 04:58.400]  are dealing with a situation, what is the goal, is the goal to pacify and diffuse and
[04:58.400 --> 05:03.800]  you know what I am saying, trying to have a peaceful outcome and do what is best for
[05:03.800 --> 05:12.520]  the individuals around you or is the goal to just have complete and utter control at
[05:12.520 --> 05:16.800]  all costs no matter what or is it somewhere in between?
[05:16.800 --> 05:22.880]  I want to say it is somewhere in between, if you consider, if you talk about let's say
[05:22.880 --> 05:34.400]  military action, there are casualties, what is the word, casualties that are not military
[05:34.400 --> 05:42.520]  type targets, people get hurt, collateral damage, that is what I am thinking of, that
[05:42.520 --> 05:51.080]  is going to happen, now when it comes to a situation where a police officer now has control
[05:51.080 --> 05:57.520]  and responsibility of what happens from the point that they enter a scene, they have to
[05:57.520 --> 06:04.640]  secure that scene and very often and these are some of the tactics that we get most criticized
[06:04.640 --> 06:10.960]  for, we have to establish immediate control of the scene because we are responsible for
[06:10.960 --> 06:15.960]  what happens afterwards, if we are at a big bar fight and if we see somebody that is acting
[06:15.960 --> 06:20.880]  a certain way, we are going to try to neutralize that action as quickly as possible, it is
[06:20.880 --> 06:27.360]  going to come aggressively, it is going to come fast and you have seen enough time, if
[06:27.360 --> 06:32.800]  you put an officer in enough of those scenarios eventually he is going to make a wrong move,
[06:32.800 --> 06:37.040]  he is going to hit somebody the wrong way, push somebody the wrong way and it was just
[06:37.040 --> 06:42.280]  a video on TV today of an officer pushing a kid down outside of a theater and he fell
[06:42.280 --> 06:47.400]  back, hit his head on the wall and he is in a coma now, those are the things that kind
[06:47.400 --> 06:53.040]  of happen when your adrenaline is pumping and you are in a situation where you cannot
[06:53.040 --> 06:59.720]  predict the outcome but there are unknown dangers to you and the other people around
[06:59.720 --> 07:07.720]  you, it is not an excuse for anything but it is a fact of the job that nobody will ever
[07:07.720 --> 07:16.120]  get away from and the loser the majority of times in these situations are innocent people
[07:16.120 --> 07:23.480]  and that is the thing that you cannot control because in your effort to make the situation
[07:23.480 --> 07:30.280]  safe immediately for as many people as possible, innocent people get caught up in that net
[07:30.280 --> 07:40.240]  and then the courts can sort it out, so we say even if we arrest somebody, yes go ahead.
[07:40.240 --> 07:44.960]  That is exactly what I am trying to get to, is get the courts where they stand in their
[07:44.960 --> 07:51.160]  position to act as a check and balance, that is what is not happening.
[07:51.160 --> 07:56.880]  You mean in an immediate, when I jumped in on the, when I got in on the conversation
[07:56.880 --> 08:04.280]  after listening on the radio, the impression that I got was that and I have heard some
[08:04.280 --> 08:14.560]  other shows that where it is essentially people trying to provide technicality, reasons that
[08:14.560 --> 08:18.720]  never really do fly when you try to apply them, that is the impression that I got, I
[08:18.720 --> 08:23.480]  could have gotten the wrong impression but, can I jump in on that Randy?
[08:23.480 --> 08:28.200]  Yeah I want to just let me say something real quick and then I want to let Randy respond.
[08:28.200 --> 08:36.480]  Ben, we have been doing this show for over two years now, okay and our callers, our listeners
[08:36.480 --> 08:44.320]  and us, we have progressed through learning law and so when you, and when new people come
[08:44.320 --> 08:49.800]  in and hear these things, I can see, I can understand how you would get that impression
[08:49.800 --> 08:56.360]  but it is only because we ourselves are just trying to iron out and understand fine points
[08:56.360 --> 09:02.680]  of law but really I personally, I do not believe Randy or any of our listeners have any intention
[09:02.680 --> 09:11.120]  of trying to pull anything based on loopholes or technicalities, do you understand what
[09:11.120 --> 09:14.160]  I am saying and I will let Randy, I will let Randy respond.
[09:14.160 --> 09:21.760]  Let me explain my posture and I explain this on the air a lot, if you do not know where
[09:21.760 --> 09:28.280]  you are going, you will almost certainly wind up somewhere else and I have one purpose in
[09:28.280 --> 09:38.280]  all that I am doing here, I want to put every judge in a position such that when he steps
[09:38.280 --> 09:44.480]  out behind the bench and looks out across the bar at the gallery, he is wondering which
[09:44.480 --> 09:49.600]  one, which one of those jack legs are standing out there waiting for me to render a ruling
[09:49.600 --> 09:56.320]  he does not think is proper, so he can run down to the grand jury and try to get me indicted.
[09:56.320 --> 10:00.760]  Now tell everybody real quick, I do not want anybody indicted, I file criminal charges
[10:00.760 --> 10:07.120]  all the time, I do not want anybody indicted, I want them to realize and everything is about
[10:07.120 --> 10:14.340]  the judges, the police are not the problem, the judges are the problem, they are not enforcing
[10:14.340 --> 10:20.640]  the law that is in front of them, if they did their job all this other stuff would simply
[10:20.640 --> 10:31.720]  go away, so everything that I am doing is focused toward getting the judges to follow
[10:31.720 --> 10:38.880]  law and sometimes I have to get standing to come before them, which I am about to do in
[10:38.880 --> 10:43.040]  Austin and I am about to land on a judge like a ton of bricks.
[10:43.040 --> 10:45.680]  Go ahead Ben, you are about to ask us something.
[10:45.680 --> 10:50.960]  As far as the judges are concerned, do you think that they are trying to achieve something
[10:50.960 --> 10:55.200]  whether they are just lazy or that they just do not understand the law?
[10:55.200 --> 11:01.600]  I think they have been, they were attorneys and they came into a system they did not create
[11:01.600 --> 11:07.840]  and they did things the way things were done and most of the judges in criminal cases were
[11:07.840 --> 11:13.680]  prosecutors, the prosecutor gets into this position, he did not create this, he is just
[11:13.680 --> 11:20.920]  doing it the way it has always been done and then they move up to judges and they do things
[11:20.920 --> 11:26.160]  the way they have always been done and I walk in and walk through the code of criminal procedure
[11:26.160 --> 11:33.320]  front to back and show them where essentially every step from arrest to trial as presently
[11:33.320 --> 11:40.680]  practiced in the state of Texas is not only wrong, it is very specifically against particular
[11:40.680 --> 11:48.520]  law, I demonstrate it with what an attorney would call specificity and particularity and
[11:48.520 --> 11:55.840]  once you look at all of it, it really makes sense how it all should work and I was really
[11:55.840 --> 12:00.520]  glad Deborah asked you that question about whether you would have a problem taking someone
[12:00.520 --> 12:05.600]  before a magistrate, I have asked a lot of policemen that and not one had an objection.
[12:05.600 --> 12:11.360]  And you did neither and I just wanted to comment just very quickly on what Randy was saying
[12:11.360 --> 12:17.440]  about every step from arrest to trial is against law, it is not like there is a few things
[12:17.440 --> 12:25.600]  that are obscure that break some obscure law or some loophole, we are talking every single
[12:25.600 --> 12:34.200]  line of the entire criminal procedure code of the state of Texas is violated, we are
[12:34.200 --> 12:39.280]  talking hundreds of violations and I would be glad to sit down with you and walk right
[12:39.280 --> 12:47.440]  through it step by step, how it is wrong and everybody I have talked to, the police, prosecutors,
[12:47.440 --> 12:52.480]  magistrates, I ask them would you have any objection if a policeman arrests someone
[12:52.480 --> 12:56.960]  taking him directly to the magistrate and not one had an objection.
[12:56.960 --> 13:02.840]  So I look around and say what the heck is going on here, nobody has a problem with doing
[13:02.840 --> 13:08.480]  it right the way the statute says it is supposed to be done but everybody is doing it in a
[13:08.480 --> 13:15.400]  way that is a horrendous mess, makes it worse for everybody and frankly I just spoke before
[13:15.400 --> 13:23.240]  the city council in a meeting where the chief was trying to get a proposition where officers
[13:23.240 --> 13:27.800]  could take blood on the side of the highway and I asked them what is the point, you got
[13:27.800 --> 13:36.720]  a 99.6% conviction rate, why do you need more evidence, everybody pleads guilty, everybody
[13:36.720 --> 13:42.680]  takes the kill, the problem is the prosecutor, the guy who is a real criminal who has been
[13:42.680 --> 13:47.200]  through the system, he knows how to work the system, you arrest him, he goes in, makes
[13:47.200 --> 13:51.120]  a deal, he is on the street before you get done with the paperwork, the problem is not
[13:51.120 --> 13:58.560]  the case, it is the prosecutor, he don't want to have to prosecute all these cases, he wants
[13:58.560 --> 14:07.760]  to make a deal, everything is about the deal, the state, the governor's commission on criminal
[14:07.760 --> 14:20.000]  justice oversight council in 02 complained that everybody takes the deal, then after
[14:20.000 --> 14:27.680]  the deal, if they mess up on the probation and jail time, it is over crowned the jails,
[14:27.680 --> 14:38.680]  and that is right, it is, in the United States, the United States has 4% of the world's population,
[14:38.680 --> 14:48.240]  we house 50% of the world's population of inmates, and it is not the police, the police
[14:48.240 --> 14:53.560]  is struggling to do it right in a system you did not create, the prosecutors, I blame them
[14:53.560 --> 14:58.680]  but they didn't do it, the judges, I blame them, they didn't do it either, and everybody
[14:58.680 --> 15:09.700]  who listens to me knows who I blame, me, me and you and all of us citizens, we ask you
[15:09.700 --> 15:17.280]  to protect us and we didn't return the favor, we ask you to enforce law and we didn't do
[15:17.280 --> 15:25.680]  the same thing, it is our job, had we screamed bloody murder at the first step outside the
[15:25.680 --> 15:32.560]  legal lines, all these problems wouldn't have happened, and I especially like to take on
[15:32.560 --> 15:38.760]  tinky-tanky little issues, I don't want to take on this sergeant who smashed my face
[15:38.760 --> 15:44.840]  at the wall because he lost control, he was trying to control me and he couldn't, I just
[15:44.840 --> 15:49.640]  kept telling him, I don't want to talk to you, go away, beat it, scrap, yeah, what part
[15:49.640 --> 15:55.840]  of, oh we lost him, we lost him, okay, well maybe he'll come back, maybe he'll come back
[15:55.840 --> 16:01.120]  to another show, I would like to, hopefully he'll listen to this and if he is still listening
[16:01.120 --> 16:06.240]  I'd like to go ahead and ask something to him, he sounds like he's genuinely concerned
[16:06.240 --> 16:12.200]  with doing it right, that's first and foremost and that's, yeah, I was, to seldom we get
[16:12.200 --> 16:21.560]  a policeman call in and I was policed, did I lose you, oh we're here, oh I thought I
[16:21.560 --> 16:29.880]  lost Craig, Eddie are you there, hold on, I think we lost Craig, hold on, everybody's
[16:29.880 --> 16:38.320]  getting lost here, for me it would be great to have a policeman just go through this and
[16:38.320 --> 16:46.880]  get his opinion on it and his take and especially his take on how we could make things better,
[16:46.880 --> 16:51.640]  well I tried to ask him that already and it sounded to me like he was saying it can't
[16:51.640 --> 16:59.640]  be, he sounded frustrated and I understand his frustration and I think that's exactly
[16:59.640 --> 17:09.560]  the point, he seemed frustrated of what he heard of our show initially because he got
[17:09.560 --> 17:16.120]  the impression that we're all trying to get people off who shouldn't be getting off because
[17:16.120 --> 17:23.840]  of loopholes and that's not really what it's about, it has to do with due process and we
[17:23.840 --> 17:30.000]  just want our public officials to follow law just like we have to and I'm sorry but the
[17:30.000 --> 17:38.320]  criminal procedure code of the state of Texas is not an obscure, outdated, antiquated law,
[17:38.320 --> 17:51.120]  this is the structure of our criminal justice system and, which point did I get lost, I
[17:51.120 --> 17:59.480]  was talking, I had just talked about, right after we dropped him, just a couple seconds
[17:59.480 --> 18:04.480]  later we dropped you, right but see I can see where he's coming from and I'm really
[18:04.480 --> 18:10.800]  glad that Ben called in to give us his sign because what he's saying is, well he doesn't
[18:10.800 --> 18:16.880]  mind if he has to bring people directly to a magistrate upon arrest but it's cumbersome,
[18:16.880 --> 18:24.480]  there's a pain because it takes time and the officers have to be off the street when they
[18:24.480 --> 18:31.920]  could be out there on the beat and grabbing more people and stuff like that, okay but
[18:31.920 --> 18:38.280]  like Eddie says, what about our liberties, what about the person who gets railroaded
[18:38.280 --> 18:44.720]  because of a cop with an attitude, that time can never be replaced, all right, in their
[18:44.720 --> 18:53.920]  life, ever and we have to preserve liberties at all costs.
[18:53.920 --> 18:57.680]  What I really wanted to ask you while it was on air if I got the chance to do it was that
[18:57.680 --> 19:03.620]  as a police officer who sounds like he wants to do it right, okay, if it's brought to his
[19:03.620 --> 19:08.440]  attention that he is doing it wrong, what's his take on that, oh I need to correct my
[19:08.440 --> 19:13.880]  actions or oh well this is just how I've been doing it, I'd like to know what his personal
[19:13.880 --> 19:20.120]  sway on that is and a good example, hang on a second and I'll let you have it, but a good
[19:20.120 --> 19:26.120]  example would be if you show the officer that he is enforcing a law that says it's specifically
[19:26.120 --> 19:31.480]  limited to blue vehicles for instance but he is actively enforcing it against every
[19:31.480 --> 19:36.880]  color vehicle on the road, now this is just a simple example, if you show this officer
[19:36.880 --> 19:43.760]  that it only applies in this instance, shouldn't the officer take the personal responsibility
[19:43.760 --> 19:46.880]  to make the adjustment of the enforcement?
[19:46.880 --> 19:51.680]  From the way it sounded like he was talking, no, we're being accused of nitpicking as the
[19:51.680 --> 19:57.040]  person who has bothered to read it and knows it's not supposed to be being applied to us
[19:57.040 --> 20:01.960]  but because we're arguing against it now we're trouble makers when what we're really trying
[20:01.960 --> 20:07.640]  to do is say look, we're not the one making the mistake here, okay, we're trying to show
[20:07.640 --> 20:13.600]  you that you are and all we're asking is for you to take the responsibility as that officer
[20:13.600 --> 20:18.720]  to say you're right, I goofed, I'll adjust and I'll do it right from now on and that's
[20:18.720 --> 20:20.280]  really what we're trying to do.
[20:20.280 --> 20:28.160]  Well see I see a bigger problem that this is going to a discretion of where Officer
[20:28.160 --> 20:33.440]  Ben was saying, basically it sounded to me like he was saying well if he feels the law
[20:33.440 --> 20:41.120]  is obscure or antiquated then he doesn't need to bother with it so now we are placed in
[20:41.120 --> 20:47.600]  the position of having to prove to him and show him that the criminal procedure code
[20:47.600 --> 20:54.440]  which structures our entire criminal justice system is not an obscure antiquated law and
[20:54.440 --> 20:58.880]  that's highly unfortunate and I hope that that's not really the way that it is but like
[20:58.880 --> 21:02.480]  Eddie says it sounds like he wants to do the right thing.
[21:02.480 --> 21:06.520]  Yeah and that's where we've dealt with that before though when we talk about it being
[21:06.520 --> 21:11.760]  antiquated and I've told you I have literally had police officers sit on the stand and tell
[21:11.760 --> 21:17.280]  me I don't have to read the law, I don't have to know what it says, I just have to enforce
[21:17.280 --> 21:21.400]  it and unfortunately that's a common mindset.
[21:21.400 --> 21:29.520]  Yeah I know that and trying to train each officer will be an impossible task, we can't
[21:29.520 --> 21:30.520]  do that.
[21:30.520 --> 21:33.520]  Well then we have to deal with those training.
[21:33.520 --> 21:38.920]  No that's what judges are for, judges will take care of that.
[21:38.920 --> 21:45.000]  We kick the judges behind then the judge will kick their behind.
[21:45.000 --> 21:51.600]  Well yes I agree Randy but what about the training programs of the police, the police
[21:51.600 --> 21:59.720]  academies, what about the training that they go through okay if they were trained to follow
[21:59.720 --> 22:06.360]  law then they would do it, they're going to do what they're trained to do.
[22:06.360 --> 22:15.840]  Exactly and we will get that from the tip of the spear or the judges, the judges will
[22:15.840 --> 22:19.000]  force the training to change, they'll do all of that for us.
[22:19.000 --> 22:25.480]  When the judges start kicking these policemen's behind for not following due process and kicking
[22:25.480 --> 22:32.400]  the prosecutors behind, primarily the prosecutor and then the prosecutor will give different
[22:32.400 --> 22:36.320]  advice to the police and then the training will have to change.
[22:36.320 --> 22:43.480]  So trying to beat up the policeman, there were a lot of things I didn't say to him
[22:43.480 --> 22:48.800]  because I didn't want to challenge him that hard, I was so pleased that we actually got
[22:48.800 --> 22:54.040]  a policeman that cared enough to call in, I certainly didn't want to beat him up too
[22:54.040 --> 22:59.640]  bad but I didn't want to go to what I'm doing to try to get this stopped.
[22:59.640 --> 23:06.480]  This policeman who smashed my face into the wall and arrested me, his career is going
[23:06.480 --> 23:07.480]  to end.
[23:07.480 --> 23:14.520]  Yeah and what you were saying is that we don't want to end these people's careers really
[23:14.520 --> 23:15.520]  ultimately.
[23:15.520 --> 23:20.600]  This is not what I wanted to happen but you know here I follow the thunder, he opened
[23:20.600 --> 23:22.840]  this door now he has to walk through it.
[23:22.840 --> 23:27.960]  Well see the thing is I still want to go to these training programs, how are they getting
[23:27.960 --> 23:33.400]  funded, what are the laws, what are the statutes that are being passed by our state legislature,
[23:33.400 --> 23:37.920]  the appropriations to fund these training programs, who's running them, what are their
[23:37.920 --> 23:45.600]  curriculums, who's the dean, who's the principal, who are the teachers, what exactly are these
[23:45.600 --> 23:49.360]  people teaching our police to do?
[23:49.360 --> 23:54.840]  Well having been through that I can respond to that and it goes back to what I said before.
[23:54.840 --> 23:59.120]  Most officers have never been taught to read the statute.
[23:59.120 --> 24:06.760]  A lot of them are thrown a simple field guide which is nothing more than somebody's attempt
[24:06.760 --> 24:13.600]  to summarize the intent of the statute into a brief description that the officer has to
[24:13.600 --> 24:15.760]  absorb in the field.
[24:15.760 --> 24:20.880]  It doesn't deal with the actual statute, the actual application and the actual language
[24:20.880 --> 24:28.000]  that comprises that statute and that's where that discretion part kicks in at a high rate.
[24:28.000 --> 24:33.760]  The officer's going by the little bit of information he's got and he believes with all his heart
[24:33.760 --> 24:39.880]  is correct most of the time and then you've got the full language of the legislature that
[24:39.880 --> 24:44.960]  lined it out and they do not directly translate.
[24:44.960 --> 24:50.120]  And you also have the feds that are funding training programs to teach our police to do
[24:50.120 --> 24:55.800]  things that have nothing to do with our state laws whatsoever on top of it.
[24:55.800 --> 24:58.440]  Actually we really need to go back to our callers.
[24:58.440 --> 25:02.560]  Okay we're going to go back to the callers and I'm going to trace down just what these
[25:02.560 --> 25:08.160]  training programs are anyway and who's funding them and what that is all about.
[25:08.160 --> 25:11.880]  Okay we're going to, sorry callers, we're going to go back to the call board but this
[25:11.880 --> 25:18.280]  is very important, I feel very honored that you know we have some police officers, a police
[25:18.280 --> 25:22.520]  officer that felt he wanted to call in and talk to us about these issues.
[25:22.520 --> 25:24.560]  Okay we're going to go to Mitchell in Texas.
[25:24.560 --> 25:26.400]  Mitchell thanks for calling in and thanks for holding.
[25:26.400 --> 25:27.400]  What's on your mind?
[25:27.400 --> 25:34.960]  Before I get to my first point just to comment on Ben's call, I found it actually kind of
[25:34.960 --> 25:43.120]  scary because he's got this mindset apparently that he does have some discretion to interpret
[25:43.120 --> 25:47.960]  the law and say well really things shouldn't work that way.
[25:47.960 --> 25:55.000]  I'm here to decide what's better and that's very, other than just wrong, it's very unprofessional
[25:55.000 --> 25:56.000]  too.
[25:56.000 --> 26:00.800]  I mean if you want to play in business terms you know you're given a set of orders, follow
[26:00.800 --> 26:08.360]  the law and it's not up to you to decide well in this case maybe it's not, things shouldn't
[26:08.360 --> 26:16.200]  be that way and it's not up to him to determine what the reasons are behind the law and frankly
[26:16.200 --> 26:22.200]  I guess my advice to countering some of his arguments would be to say we won't even go
[26:22.200 --> 26:28.080]  there as to why, if you want to change the law go ahead and you know protest or whatever
[26:28.080 --> 26:31.280]  or write another law to have the law changed.
[26:31.280 --> 26:39.880]  Right now you're authorized to uphold the law, not a different interpretation or a different
[26:39.880 --> 26:47.160]  application or a change in the law so I agree with you.
[26:47.160 --> 26:49.640]  You landed dead on it.
[26:49.640 --> 26:58.880]  The problem here is the mindset, it's the posture and the police are trained into this
[26:58.880 --> 27:07.120]  posture and part of it the criminals help to train them into it.
[27:07.120 --> 27:13.480]  I spent six days in jail once and it was a real eye-opener.
[27:13.480 --> 27:18.840]  These guys who had been in there a while, the only things they could talk about was
[27:18.840 --> 27:21.680]  what they were going to have for their next meal and the caper they were going to pull
[27:21.680 --> 27:24.160]  when they got out.
[27:24.160 --> 27:31.440]  The same guys, something like 90% of all the crime are committed, perpetrated by 10% of
[27:31.440 --> 27:32.440]  the population.
[27:32.440 --> 27:37.840]  Same guys over and over and over and over and the police get used to them so they help
[27:37.840 --> 27:44.720]  train the police to think that we're all criminal scum and because they don't have that much
[27:44.720 --> 27:49.960]  dealings with those of us who aren't, it develops this mindset.
[27:49.960 --> 27:56.360]  Everything about what I'm trying to do is change that mindset.
[27:56.360 --> 28:01.560]  Bring it back to where the police and the public are both on the same side.
[28:01.560 --> 28:11.480]  And Mitchell, it seemed to me that I wasn't quite sure if he held that opinion himself.
[28:11.480 --> 28:16.680]  It seemed to me he may have to a certain extent or was just trying to express to us that other
[28:16.680 --> 28:26.160]  police officers do that if they perceive that people like us are pushing the envelope, quote
[28:26.160 --> 28:33.960]  unquote, or filing documents or doing things to try to maneuver through loopholes just
[28:33.960 --> 28:39.480]  to be cocky and push the envelope of we have liberty, we have liberty, then it's going
[28:39.480 --> 28:49.560]  to incite them to become defensive and want to react according to what he's saying is
[28:49.560 --> 28:51.760]  human nature.
[28:51.760 --> 28:58.480]  And I agree with you, Mitchell, and my take on the whole thing is it's not their decision.
[28:58.480 --> 29:06.920]  It's not their place to decide whether or not what we're doing is being cocky of maneuvering
[29:06.920 --> 29:13.200]  through loopholes just to push some point or whether or not this is a very serious issue
[29:13.200 --> 29:16.560]  of fundamental liberties, okay?
[29:16.560 --> 29:19.360]  So I don't know what can be done about this.
[29:19.360 --> 29:20.360]  I really don't.
[29:20.360 --> 29:24.600]  And even he said that he doesn't know what can be done.
[29:24.600 --> 29:26.960]  I know what can be done about it.
[29:26.960 --> 29:33.360]  The other point is what I don't think he realized or my perception of what he doesn't realize.
[29:33.360 --> 29:38.400]  And I don't know if you guys touched on this too or I know you're intending to, but maybe
[29:38.400 --> 29:43.800]  just summarizing it a little bit is letting the system play out the way it's supposed
[29:43.800 --> 29:49.680]  to act as a natural governor for governance on the whole process.
[29:49.680 --> 29:57.280]  So if the police get overloaded with taking people on what is ultimately determined to
[29:57.280 --> 30:06.400]  be obscure reasons or just troublemaking or whatever, then the magistrates will just put
[30:06.400 --> 30:15.320]  those people in jail because they'll agree too or 180 degrees from that, if like in Randy's
[30:15.320 --> 30:21.200]  case, it was determined not to be obscure and that the police officer was wrong, then
[30:21.200 --> 30:29.840]  that is a natural governor too because the feedback from that, you used Ron Paul's term
[30:29.840 --> 30:37.240]  before, the blowback from that is that the police will then be sort of beat into shape
[30:37.240 --> 30:42.920]  like you're getting at or you keep alluding to, Randy, about how this ultimately filters
[30:42.920 --> 30:44.240]  back to the system.
[30:44.240 --> 30:52.800]  So by subverting the system, I mean by subverting one process or one link in the system, it
[30:52.800 --> 30:54.800]  makes the whole system break down.
[30:54.800 --> 30:55.800]  Precise.
[30:55.800 --> 31:02.480]  Sort of like the Constitution, you take out one part of the Constitution, you know, whatever,
[31:02.480 --> 31:06.880]  representatives in the Senate representing the state, suddenly everything else is shaking
[31:06.880 --> 31:11.280]  and it no longer acts like it was supposed to.
[31:11.280 --> 31:19.120]  Right, well this is, and I agree with Officer Ben when he's talking about the human nature,
[31:19.120 --> 31:27.920]  okay, people that get in positions of power are going to be led, attempted and most likely
[31:27.920 --> 31:35.540]  engage in abusing that power and that's why the founders of our republic set up the separation
[31:35.540 --> 31:39.840]  of the branches of government and I see two remedies here.
[31:39.840 --> 31:45.520]  Number one, we need to take control of the training programs of our police, okay, and
[31:45.520 --> 31:51.240]  number two, Randy's remedies, kick them in the butt when they don't follow law.
[31:51.240 --> 31:58.480]  Yeah, mainly we get the judges straightened out, they'll take care of everybody else and
[31:58.480 --> 32:03.720]  it's kind of unfortunate that I have to go through the guys at the bottom to get up there
[32:03.720 --> 32:09.280]  but I suspect that this case I'm about to bring, when I charged the director of the
[32:09.280 --> 32:14.920]  department of his, the major, I never did get to the assistant director, I'll just go
[32:14.920 --> 32:22.600]  for the major, Major Remy, when I charge him with first degree felony aggravated assault
[32:22.600 --> 32:28.560]  for acting in concert and collusion, I'm going to get their attention and then when I sue
[32:28.560 --> 32:36.960]  the Crapola out of them, the officers personally and individually and sue the state beyond
[32:36.960 --> 32:43.600]  its sovereign immunity because they used an automobile, we start winding their clocks
[32:43.600 --> 32:50.240]  a little bit, they'll get a little more respect and that's what this was all about and that's
[32:50.240 --> 32:55.080]  what I got from Ben is he lacked respect for us.
[32:55.080 --> 32:59.760]  Yeah and that's a big problem that I've seen is that they don't treat the respect as a
[32:59.760 --> 33:05.720]  two-way street because they're wearing the badge and the gun, it's all them and we got
[33:05.720 --> 33:12.600]  no say so in it but the lack of knowledge is you are a public servant, all right, don't
[33:12.600 --> 33:19.080]  approach me with attitude, approach me if nothing else as an equal, not a subordinate.
[33:19.080 --> 33:25.800]  Right, well see this goes to the training programs, okay, because you take a police
[33:25.800 --> 33:33.280]  officer who, you know, fresh clean slate, wants to do the right thing, clean in his
[33:33.280 --> 33:39.480]  heart, pure of heart, goes to this training program, listen to Officer Jack McClam, this
[33:39.480 --> 33:47.800]  has been going on since the 60s, 50s even, long before but they're trained to do this
[33:47.800 --> 33:52.320]  and so then when we implement Randy's techniques and we kick them in the butt to make them
[33:52.320 --> 34:00.120]  have to learn the hard way, agree it has to be done but I would like to see this a two-pronged
[34:00.120 --> 34:06.000]  approach at the least, we've got to get control of these training programs because if we get
[34:06.000 --> 34:10.840]  control of the training programs to train our police to actually be proper police officers,
[34:10.840 --> 34:16.200]  I really believe there's going to be a whole lot less of these kinds of problems because
[34:16.200 --> 34:19.400]  I believe a lot of our police really do want to do the right thing even though there are
[34:19.400 --> 34:23.120]  some that corrupt and then when they get out of line then we kick them in the butt like
[34:23.120 --> 34:30.240]  Randy says but man without getting control of the training programs, kicking every single
[34:30.240 --> 34:35.000]  one of them in the butt, it's going to be a long hard road.
[34:35.000 --> 34:41.400]  I don't think we'll have to, you know, a couple of good lawsuits, you know, if I get my complaints
[34:41.400 --> 34:50.080]  before the grand jury against high level DPS officials, the DPS is the best one because
[34:50.080 --> 34:55.920]  they're the agency of statewide jurisdiction and they pretty well set the tone for the
[34:55.920 --> 35:02.920]  rest of the state and of the DPS, I get the capital police, they're elite and I get to
[35:02.920 --> 35:06.480]  keep their behind so this is going to be a great case.
[35:06.480 --> 35:10.640]  Absolutely but Randy somebody still has to teach them how to do the right thing and act
[35:10.640 --> 35:11.640]  proper.
[35:11.640 --> 35:12.640]  I think, go ahead.
[35:12.640 --> 35:17.640]  Can I comment on the training aspect?
[35:17.640 --> 35:18.640]  Yes.
[35:18.640 --> 35:25.600]  I understand what you're saying Deborah about training is a good way to get there quickly
[35:25.600 --> 35:32.440]  but I guess I differ a little bit in that to me it seems that having a training program
[35:32.440 --> 35:37.520]  still has a middle man and I don't want to disregard that, you know, still obviously
[35:37.520 --> 35:45.920]  necessary but it tracks from really what all of our responsibilities are which is to know
[35:45.920 --> 35:46.920]  the law.
[35:46.920 --> 35:51.920]  The law is the bottom line, anything subsequent to that or downstream of that is someone's
[35:51.920 --> 35:57.440]  interpretation so it really takes away from individual responsibility and going back to
[35:57.440 --> 36:03.920]  how you started to show off two years ago from my memory or my understanding, you wanted
[36:03.920 --> 36:09.280]  to hit, well maybe it changed a little bit but I thought at the time you sort of wanted
[36:09.280 --> 36:18.200]  to hit the little guy and that's my thought too once you, whatever, bring criminal charges
[36:18.200 --> 36:25.600]  against the individual police officer who crosses the line or breaks the law himself,
[36:25.600 --> 36:30.880]  other people, other officers will say well wait a minute, that guy is going to jail,
[36:30.880 --> 36:33.640]  you know, I better find out what the real law is.
[36:33.640 --> 36:38.240]  I mean we've all worked in situations, I used to work for the city and you know my
[36:38.240 --> 36:43.720]  boss would tell me something and I'd go and I had enough or at least I think I had enough
[36:43.720 --> 36:47.560]  thought or knowledge or whatever to go look up the rules myself.
[36:47.560 --> 36:52.280]  I didn't trust what someone else was telling me and I still operate like that today and
[36:52.280 --> 36:59.000]  I wish, you know, everyone would do that because really when it gets down to the individual
[36:59.000 --> 37:04.600]  acting that's how we disseminate this across, you know, the whole land, sort of like ever
[37:04.600 --> 37:11.640]  your rainbow coalition, the reason the parks folks have so much trouble is because it's
[37:11.640 --> 37:19.280]  not one person getting a permit, it's everyone sort of acting on their own and when you have
[37:19.280 --> 37:25.800]  something widely distributed and decentralized like that, it has much more of an implementable
[37:25.800 --> 37:34.240]  and, well, implementable or it is much more results.
[37:34.240 --> 37:42.480]  So I guess all I'm trying to say is in my desired world each individual would use their
[37:42.480 --> 37:49.000]  own thought process as an individual, man or woman, look at the law themselves and make
[37:49.000 --> 37:50.000]  their own determination.
[37:50.000 --> 37:55.440]  Yes, use what you're given through training as a guide but still at the end of the day
[37:55.440 --> 37:58.320]  you yourself are responsible for upholding the law.
[37:58.320 --> 38:03.880]  You know, the Nuremberg trials, those guys supposedly were sent to jail or put to death
[38:03.880 --> 38:12.560]  or whatever because the byline that they gave of, well, my superiors told me that didn't
[38:12.560 --> 38:13.560]  fly.
[38:13.560 --> 38:21.240]  Right, just following orders and that never was really after the little guy but we have
[38:21.240 --> 38:27.600]  to go through the little guy to work our way up and as to all of us having to learn the
[38:27.600 --> 38:36.800]  law, that's not going to happen and I understand that, I'm here looking for Mitchell, you're
[38:36.800 --> 38:42.000]  why I'm on the air, maybe one in a, if we're lucky one in 500.
[38:42.000 --> 38:45.640]  And we're looking for Ben too, that's why we're on the air.
[38:45.640 --> 38:54.560]  Yeah, they actually called in, yeah and Eddie, I mean, I found Eddie and this is why I'm
[38:54.560 --> 38:56.200]  here, we get a lot of people calling.
[38:56.200 --> 38:57.800]  Yeah, we're stacking up with the college.
[38:57.800 --> 38:58.800]  We're really cranking up.
[38:58.800 --> 39:04.640]  Okay, Nick, I just have one simple point to make that had nothing to do with this other
[39:04.640 --> 39:11.920]  stuff and this is a real one here but going back to Dr. Delvitte before and his sort of
[39:11.920 --> 39:19.320]  questioning where it comes in about why you are forced or not forced to accept a Federal
[39:19.320 --> 39:23.680]  Reserve Note, if you look and I don't know the whole law behind it but on the dollar
[39:23.680 --> 39:29.080]  bill it says this note is legal tender for all debts public and private and just from
[39:29.080 --> 39:35.560]  a wordsmithing point of view, all it says there is for all debts and in my understanding,
[39:35.560 --> 39:40.720]  you know, I'm not an economist or have training in this or whatever but you don't incur a
[39:40.720 --> 39:47.400]  debt until you agree to pay for something in the future so an immediate transaction
[39:47.400 --> 39:55.600]  does not constitute a debt having occurred yet so if I trade you my lemonade for your,
[39:55.600 --> 40:02.600]  you know, your chicken egg or something and I don't give you my lemonade until you give
[40:02.600 --> 40:07.200]  me your chicken egg then there is no debt.
[40:07.200 --> 40:13.320]  I mean, the transaction happens and that's the end of it so if I don't engage in that
[40:13.320 --> 40:19.400]  transaction until you give me what I want, no debt was ever created so the dollar bill
[40:19.400 --> 40:21.400]  never enters into that.
[40:21.400 --> 40:24.320]  Good point, Mitchell.
[40:24.320 --> 40:25.320]  Very good point.
[40:25.320 --> 40:28.880]  All right, on that note, I'll call out.
[40:28.880 --> 40:35.840]  I'm thinking that when the little girl puts the lemonade in your hand, the debt is created.
[40:35.840 --> 40:41.800]  Well how about this, she don't put it in your hand until you give her something else first.
[40:41.800 --> 40:46.240]  Randy, when we exchange something, I give you something with my right hand and take
[40:46.240 --> 40:48.680]  something with my left hand, that's the end of it.
[40:48.680 --> 40:49.680]  There's no debt.
[40:49.680 --> 40:58.400]  There's no future option there so to me that's something that I don't know.
[40:58.400 --> 41:05.920]  I think what we were trying to get to is if you and I agree to a trade, we can agree to
[41:05.920 --> 41:13.320]  trade anything we want to and like I said, I haven't looked this up but I'm relatively
[41:13.320 --> 41:16.000]  certain this is going to be the case.
[41:16.000 --> 41:24.720]  If you're operating a business that deals with the general public and not just one private
[41:24.720 --> 41:31.440]  person in their backyard with another private person but if you do business with the general
[41:31.440 --> 41:42.800]  public and someone from the general public wants to use these legal tender notes in the
[41:42.800 --> 41:48.960]  form of a public trade that you have to take them.
[41:48.960 --> 41:50.240]  Well that's the question of the hour.
[41:50.240 --> 41:55.240]  That's why I was researching for an hour and a half before we got on the line with Officer
[41:55.240 --> 42:01.320]  Ben and it's very vague because this battle over what the definition of legal tender
[42:01.320 --> 42:04.240]  actually is and our vendors require to take it.
[42:04.240 --> 42:05.720]  That's been going on since the 1800s.
[42:05.720 --> 42:11.560]  I mean the Supreme Court has ruled one way and then the other so it requires more research
[42:11.560 --> 42:19.400]  but I think Mitchell has got some really strong insight here.
[42:19.400 --> 42:22.840]  But Mitchell, he's the one we're looking for.
[42:22.840 --> 42:27.040]  Mitchell, most people are never going to learn the law and that's all there is to it and
[42:27.040 --> 42:29.680]  we don't need them all to.
[42:29.680 --> 42:32.120]  So it doesn't have to keep these guys in the behind.
[42:32.120 --> 42:33.120]  There's a few others.
[42:33.120 --> 42:36.600]  I think there's a point I was trying to make about Ben's comment too.
[42:36.600 --> 42:42.440]  There's a natural sort of governance there that if we all start to sort of act that way
[42:42.440 --> 42:49.640]  and try to learn the law and take the actions that come from it, over time there could be
[42:49.640 --> 42:55.960]  a gradual reduction in the complication of these laws and actually have them simpler
[42:55.960 --> 43:02.760]  and not have, you know, 5,000 pages of some tax code that's created that way because it
[43:02.760 --> 43:03.760]  breaks the law.
[43:03.760 --> 43:10.520]  So what I'm saying is again when you go in and you just parse out one part and say okay
[43:10.520 --> 43:17.200]  I'm just going to address this, it doesn't sort of address how the whole system acts.
[43:17.200 --> 43:24.920]  The natural action is yeah if people do start following the law or whatever, the consequence
[43:24.920 --> 43:31.720]  of that could very likely be in my opinion a reduction in the number of laws, you know,
[43:31.720 --> 43:36.400]  but first unconstitutional laws and then just absurd laws.
[43:36.400 --> 43:38.400]  I agree.
[43:38.400 --> 43:43.560]  Well we hope and pray society will head in that direction.
[43:43.560 --> 43:49.000]  We want those of us who have that mindset, we need to teach others that.
[43:49.000 --> 43:53.760]  Okay, Mitchell we need to let you go because we have like a full board of callers.
[43:53.760 --> 43:57.040]  Thanks guys, well don't stay up too late.
[43:57.040 --> 44:01.920]  Okay, well we'll stay up as late as we need to.
[44:01.920 --> 44:03.920]  Liberty doesn't sleep.
[44:03.920 --> 44:10.000]  Okay I want to take another new caller, first time caller, this is Trevor from Texas.
[44:10.000 --> 44:13.280]  Trevor, thank you for calling in, thank you for holding.
[44:13.280 --> 44:18.280]  What's on your mind tonight?
[44:18.280 --> 44:23.880]  Trevor?
[44:23.880 --> 44:26.320]  That'll suck, hold this line and then it cuts off.
[44:26.320 --> 44:27.320]  Come on Trevor.
[44:27.320 --> 44:28.320]  Hi, I'm here.
[44:28.320 --> 44:33.520]  Oh he's there, okay great, yay, what's on your mind?
[44:33.520 --> 44:40.200]  Well you were talking about the training that officers receive, well there is a conscious
[44:40.200 --> 44:47.280]  and coherently formulated training program to make BPS officers obnoxious.
[44:47.280 --> 44:52.680]  I've had a number of dealings with them and they admit it, as many times as I've called
[44:52.680 --> 45:00.680]  up to complain, I've been told that the officer is, well he's on the track of something big,
[45:00.680 --> 45:05.080]  he's trying to see if maybe my story doesn't stick together and I say I'm not telling a
[45:05.080 --> 45:09.800]  story, I'm getting written up because I have a burned out lightbulb.
[45:09.800 --> 45:15.640]  They claim that the officers on the site lie and they claim that they're not doing anything
[45:15.640 --> 45:19.760]  but they use the same code word though, I say I'm just being cordial, okay, during my
[45:19.760 --> 45:25.880]  last little encounter, I don't know if you know the geography of Travis County, I live
[45:25.880 --> 45:30.480]  in Austin, I was visiting a friend in Round Rock and the guy says is this address correct?
[45:30.480 --> 45:34.320]  Well it's on my driver's license isn't it and I said yes it is, well what are you doing
[45:34.320 --> 45:36.200]  so far north?
[45:36.200 --> 45:39.320]  How stupid can you get?
[45:39.320 --> 45:42.560]  And I ask him what that has to do with anything and he says well he could be coming from a
[45:42.560 --> 45:48.280]  crack house and here's the problem that Ben and some other officers have, if a civilian
[45:48.280 --> 45:54.080]  called me a crackhead, I'd take a four pound hammer and beat his face in, I'd slap some
[45:54.080 --> 45:55.080]  manners into him.
[45:55.080 --> 45:59.400]  Okay well wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on Trevor, hold on, hold
[45:59.400 --> 46:07.960]  on, this kind of escalation is what the bad guys want so that they can have an excuse
[46:07.960 --> 46:14.760]  to beat us down and put us under the jail so to speak and I agree that there has got
[46:14.760 --> 46:20.160]  to be a very specific training program, I know there is because the feds are federalizing
[46:20.160 --> 46:28.760]  our police, okay but we can't fall into the trap, okay, we have to realize that they are
[46:28.760 --> 46:34.960]  in a certain mindset and we need to rise above that, okay and try to do something about it
[46:34.960 --> 46:35.960]  and not escalate.
[46:35.960 --> 46:43.760]  I think he was just saying that if an ordinary person had done that he would really be upset
[46:43.760 --> 46:51.840]  and well I agree, I believe they trained them to be this way, the DPS very deliberately
[46:51.840 --> 46:59.360]  moves their officers to a place away from their hometown, away from where they are known,
[46:59.360 --> 47:03.440]  they don't want them to be around where people know them, they don't want them to be officer
[47:03.440 --> 47:06.040]  friendly, they want them to be obnoxious.
[47:06.040 --> 47:12.720]  Okay Trevor, do you have any, what is your take on the training program, do you have?
[47:12.720 --> 47:20.040]  You need to not inculcate the idea that they can speak to the people that employ them in
[47:20.040 --> 47:25.720]  any fashion they please, I told them if you didn't have a gun, a club, a badge and a radio
[47:25.720 --> 47:33.160]  to ask for help, I would correct your behavior toot sweet but you have to stand there and
[47:33.160 --> 47:37.720]  take verbal abuse and when you call in to complain you're told, well I reviewed the
[47:37.720 --> 47:41.840]  tape, the officer was inside the department guidelines, well they draw the department
[47:41.840 --> 47:47.160]  guidelines to include anything up to it, I guess pistol whipping me, well I'm sorry.
[47:47.160 --> 47:52.120]  They smashed my face into a stone wall back in February and threw me in jail and when
[47:52.120 --> 47:58.280]  I called the major he said he was aware of what went on and he felt his officers acted
[47:58.280 --> 48:00.960]  in accordance with policy.
[48:00.960 --> 48:08.280]  I said well thank you very much, now I will charge him with the first degree felony aggravated
[48:08.280 --> 48:12.200]  assault and criminal conspiracy to commit.
[48:12.200 --> 48:13.760]  Because it's policy.
[48:13.760 --> 48:17.720]  That's policy, it's conspiracy.
[48:17.720 --> 48:20.400]  Jerk.
[48:20.400 --> 48:24.840]  Thank you very much, I had his lieutenant, I called the lieutenant and I said my name
[48:24.840 --> 48:32.840]  is Ralph Kelton and I was arrested at the secretary of state building, one of your officers.
[48:32.840 --> 48:39.680]  Apparently someone sent a sergeant down there to demonstrate to his officers how to deal
[48:39.680 --> 48:44.720]  with someone who exercises their first amendment right by beating the hell out of them and
[48:44.720 --> 48:48.920]  throwing them in jail, did you send him down there to do that?
[48:48.920 --> 48:54.240]  And I guess I caught him off guard because he said well I guess I did.
[48:54.240 --> 49:02.360]  I said oh well thank you very much, I think I'm done with you, click and I got them both
[49:02.360 --> 49:04.360]  recorded.
[49:04.360 --> 49:09.960]  So he admitted that he sent the officer down there to beat the hell out of me.
[49:09.960 --> 49:12.960]  How dumb is that?
[49:12.960 --> 49:17.560]  Okay look, look I want to say something here okay and I want to go back to what officer
[49:17.560 --> 49:24.560]  Ben was saying because I agree and this is something that I feel that we have surmised
[49:24.560 --> 49:25.560]  before.
[49:25.560 --> 49:29.720]  Certain types of personalities are going to be attracted to law enforcement, you're going
[49:29.720 --> 49:38.920]  to have some that take the high road, that want to serve and protect okay and think these
[49:38.920 --> 49:44.880]  things through, you're going to have some that are the bullies in the high school parking
[49:44.880 --> 49:51.480]  lot type and that get off on the power and the authority and you're never going to get
[49:51.480 --> 49:56.120]  around that okay, I believe that, you're never going to get around that all right.
[49:56.120 --> 50:04.320]  But I do believe that we need to appeal to, we can appeal to human nature and I really
[50:04.320 --> 50:09.480]  feel that these training programs, we've got to investigate these training programs and
[50:09.480 --> 50:15.880]  get a hold of it because if you've got training programs where the training program curriculum
[50:15.880 --> 50:25.680]  is appealing to the dark side so to speak, the bully side, the authoritarian side etc.
[50:25.680 --> 50:30.840]  and then that's what's going to happen all right, if you have a training program that's
[50:30.840 --> 50:37.080]  going to try to enlighten these individuals to do the right thing, well then it's going
[50:37.080 --> 50:48.360]  to head in that direction too okay, so I believe that we can guide the situation, it's not
[50:48.360 --> 50:54.400]  going to just be a complete and total crapshoot okay, it's like teaching children or it's
[50:54.400 --> 51:00.160]  like curriculum in the school, we can't okay, you can't just let kids grow up all by themselves
[51:00.160 --> 51:05.320]  completely undisciplined and if they do something you don't want them to do, just kick them
[51:05.320 --> 51:14.160]  in the butt or whatever discipline them, there has to be a proactive teaching mechanism in
[51:14.160 --> 51:21.320]  addition to the discipline all right, we've got to get a hold of these training programs
[51:21.320 --> 51:27.080]  to try to appeal to these people, these people's higher side and like Ben was saying, there's
[51:27.080 --> 51:30.920]  always going to be the people who are like the bully in the high school parking lot but
[51:30.920 --> 51:39.240]  if they're trained to go that direction then we're in for big problems and we've got to
[51:39.240 --> 51:44.640]  try to rise above that and not fall into that trap ourselves, you know like with the police
[51:44.640 --> 51:50.600]  riots okay, things that you're supposed to do when it looks like there's a police riot
[51:50.600 --> 51:58.720]  or a police riot that's about to happen, you know be calm, sit down, don't instigate, don't
[51:58.720 --> 52:07.960]  try to calm others down, sing a song, stuff like that, don't give them any reason to beat
[52:07.960 --> 52:14.640]  you up, this goes to humility okay, because the escalation and the rise to anger has to
[52:14.640 --> 52:21.200]  do with the ego okay and if they're trained to push that envelope and then it pushes our
[52:21.200 --> 52:25.520]  envelope and then it just gets out of control, guess who's going to win, you know who's going
[52:25.520 --> 52:30.560]  to win and it ain't going to be us, not in that situation, all right so we just have
[52:30.560 --> 52:37.400]  to try to breathe, be calm, exercise some humility, rise above the situation and get
[52:37.400 --> 52:42.160]  a hold of these training programs and if it don't work on a case by case basis, kick them
[52:42.160 --> 52:46.920]  in the butt with Randy's technique, that's just the way I see it, I don't know, what
[52:46.920 --> 52:47.920]  do y'all say?
[52:47.920 --> 52:48.920]  Guys?
[52:48.920 --> 52:49.920]  Am I still on?
[52:49.920 --> 52:50.920]  Yes, go ahead.
[52:50.920 --> 52:58.720]  Okay, well when I called in to complain, you know, we went through this whole thing with
[52:58.720 --> 53:05.520]  the first officer that I spoke to before he quit, before he retired, that lost the report
[53:05.520 --> 53:11.000]  and I said well I'd like a copy of the film, the video of the interview and then well gosh
[53:11.000 --> 53:14.760]  we don't seem to be able to find that, you know, evidence is funny stuff, it just comes
[53:14.760 --> 53:23.240]  and it goes and the second guy I talked to is Major Vasquez who succeeded the really,
[53:23.240 --> 53:28.520]  really grossly obnoxious Richard Dalvon and was saying well I'd have to look at the tape
[53:28.520 --> 53:33.440]  to see how he was doing it, you know maybe how he was saying it, you know and I said
[53:33.440 --> 53:40.000]  there's no nice way to call someone crackhead, it's just like there's no nice way to suggest
[53:40.000 --> 53:44.120]  that his wife goes down to the truck stop and turns tricks, there's some things that
[53:44.120 --> 53:45.120]  are intrinsically offensive.
[53:45.120 --> 53:46.120]  What?
[53:46.120 --> 53:47.120]  I'm going again.
[53:47.120 --> 53:52.120]  I like the way you put that.
[53:52.120 --> 54:02.320]  Well, yeah, I just said there's no nice way to insult someone and verbally abuse them,
[54:02.320 --> 54:07.240]  it's not a matter of tone, which can be pretty offensive, it's a matter of content, then
[54:07.240 --> 54:13.640]  he said well you could have been drinking schnapps, there's cinnamon on your breath
[54:13.640 --> 54:18.720]  and I said well I'm chewing all-toys gum, let's go take a breathalyzer and he goes well
[54:18.720 --> 54:24.440]  I don't know, maybe you think you need to do that and I said yeah, let's go give me
[54:24.440 --> 54:29.400]  a breathalyzer and of course like all slithering cowards and bullies he folds what his bluff
[54:29.400 --> 54:34.320]  gets called, we didn't go get me a breathalyzer, then he asked me if I've ever been arrested
[54:34.320 --> 54:41.160]  before and I said being arrested for now and he said well that's up to you and I said
[54:41.160 --> 54:45.880]  well what came up on the rather elaborate computer system that you have in the front
[54:45.880 --> 54:48.360]  seat of your unit, do I have any outstanding warrants?
[54:48.360 --> 54:52.480]  Well I'm asking you, I'm just trying to be cordial with you again, I'm used to the
[54:52.480 --> 54:57.440]  key word and I said okay you said arrested before, what am I being arrested for now?
[54:57.440 --> 55:02.320]  And it took after 10 minutes, well you're not being arrested, well the use of the word
[55:02.320 --> 55:08.200]  before implies a previous occurrence of a present incident, now I said what you mean
[55:08.200 --> 55:13.480]  is have I ever been arrested in my life, I said even if I have still what, I don't have
[55:13.480 --> 55:17.640]  any outstanding warrants which I know for a fact and which your computer screen will
[55:17.640 --> 55:20.960]  reveal to you, these people can't even speak English.
[55:20.960 --> 55:28.240]  Okay, okay wait a minute, hold on, I want to pause here, this goes to one of Randy's
[55:28.240 --> 55:38.080]  primary areas of study of psychology, we have to realize these people are being trained
[55:38.080 --> 55:48.800]  to escalate, they are specifically intentionally trying to escalate the situation to get us
[55:48.800 --> 55:56.080]  to react so that they will be able to have a reason to come down on us like a ton of
[55:56.080 --> 56:02.520]  bricks and arrest us and run us through the booking process because of the financial gain
[56:02.520 --> 56:08.040]  of the system and the police I think nine times out of ten don't even realize that that's
[56:08.040 --> 56:13.840]  what they're doing, that's just what they're trained to do, okay, we've got to find a way
[56:13.840 --> 56:22.920]  to not get wrapped up in that cycle, okay, Randy's suggestions when a person is in that
[56:22.920 --> 56:32.240]  situation and you can see that the police is instigating, how do you back off, how do
[56:32.240 --> 56:42.040]  you swallow your pride, how do you defuse the situation for the sake of the better,
[56:42.040 --> 56:43.920]  you know, of everyone involved?
[56:43.920 --> 56:48.520]  Well I didn't defuse the situation to start with, I'm being perfectly courteous and I'm
[56:48.520 --> 56:56.080]  being verbally abused and whenever I take offense with the way I'm being treated, his
[56:56.080 --> 56:57.600]  attitude steps up.
[56:57.600 --> 57:02.320]  I know, that's what I mean, I didn't say that, I wasn't trying to imply that you were
[57:02.320 --> 57:05.000]  doing anything wrong, Trevor, I was just...
[57:05.000 --> 57:09.720]  Well the point is, if you're familiar with the geography of Central Texas, Round Rock
[57:09.720 --> 57:16.360]  is basically a suburb of Austin, people commute between Austin, Pflugerville, Round Rock,
[57:16.360 --> 57:21.720]  Georgetown, Gripping Springs, I mean any number of satellite communities and escalating a
[57:21.720 --> 57:29.280]  12 minute trip into probable cause for a trip to a crack house is just mind bogglingly stupid
[57:29.280 --> 57:34.680]  and I wasn't put on this earth to provide amusement for nincompoops in ridiculous hats.
[57:34.680 --> 57:39.880]  Little Buckaroo has plenty of real crimes to apply his attention to should he choose
[57:39.880 --> 57:47.200]  to do so and as I pointed out on the phone, I see the Governor's Mansion burned down recently,
[57:47.200 --> 57:52.760]  it's now black and white, it's a burned out shell, this is part of our state and national
[57:52.760 --> 58:00.440]  patrimony, it's the heritage from the founding of the republic of and then the state of Texas
[58:00.440 --> 58:06.680]  and they can't keep a guy who was caught on camera throwing a Molotov cocktail into it
[58:06.680 --> 58:10.800]  from burning it, from gutting it.
[58:10.800 --> 58:15.760]  They're in charge of it, they're now soliciting money from the public to rebuild the Governor's
[58:15.760 --> 58:22.400]  Mansion, I say, well great, why don't we take it out of DPS retirement, huh?
[58:22.400 --> 58:23.400]  That's a good idea.
[58:23.400 --> 58:30.480]  It's outrageous, I say, what were you doing that you can't stop someone, it's a joke,
[58:30.480 --> 58:37.800]  a guy with a Molotov cocktail, they just slide over it.
[58:37.800 --> 58:43.240]  Well, have you been listening to our show long?
[58:43.240 --> 58:50.760]  Yeah, I don't catch every episode, it's been a long time, a couple of years, year and a
[58:50.760 --> 58:51.760]  half.
[58:51.760 --> 58:55.200]  Then you understand that we're working at going after them.
[58:55.200 --> 58:56.200]  Yeah.
[58:56.200 --> 59:00.480]  And everything I'm about is adjusting their attitude.
[59:00.480 --> 59:06.600]  We're round the clock back to that mutual respect thing they lack.
[59:06.600 --> 59:07.600]  Exactly.
[59:07.600 --> 59:11.160]  I like your use of language.
[59:11.160 --> 59:15.080]  Well, I said, are you not required to treat the public courteously?
[59:15.080 --> 59:16.080]  Why, yes.
[59:16.080 --> 59:21.680]  Okay, how does calling someone a crackhead fit into that rubric?
[59:21.680 --> 59:28.120]  There's no polite way to do certain things, but I asked him, okay, do I look like a crackhead?
[59:28.120 --> 59:32.640]  Of course, he gets this little smirk and goes, I wouldn't know what a crackhead looks like.
[59:32.640 --> 59:36.920]  I said, well, I'm a moderately well-read civilian, for instance, am I underweight?
[59:36.920 --> 59:37.920]  I'm not.
[59:37.920 --> 59:39.920]  Do I have an ashy, solid complexion?
[59:39.920 --> 59:40.920]  No, I don't.
[59:40.920 --> 59:41.920]  Are my cheeks sunken?
[59:41.920 --> 59:42.920]  No, they're not.
[59:42.920 --> 59:47.160]  Are my eyes sunken and deeply shadowed or surrounded by black areas?
[59:47.160 --> 59:48.160]  No, they don't.
[59:48.160 --> 59:49.840]  Do the crackhead and raccoon look?
[59:49.840 --> 59:50.840]  No, they are not.
[59:50.840 --> 59:52.320]  Do I have a meth mouth?
[59:52.320 --> 59:54.320]  No, my chops are quite healthy.
[59:54.320 --> 59:55.320]  Okay.
[59:55.320 --> 59:58.560]  I said, well, I didn't say you had to be using the crack.
[59:58.560 --> 01:00:00.360]  I said, oh, so what am I?
[01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:03.160]  I could be coming from a crack house where I don't smoke anything.
[01:00:03.160 --> 01:00:06.160]  Am I a crack tourist?
[01:00:06.160 --> 01:00:15.320]  The thing is, if he were a jerk on the street, I would have adjusted his attitude or walked
[01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:19.320]  off, but I can't because I don't want to be shot in the back.
[01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:22.520]  I had him get away with it.
[01:00:22.520 --> 01:00:23.520]  Yes.
[01:00:23.520 --> 01:00:26.760]  What a little flashlight.
[01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:29.560]  You really think that they would shoot you in the back?
[01:00:29.560 --> 01:00:30.560]  Of course.
[01:00:30.560 --> 01:00:31.560]  Of course.
[01:00:31.560 --> 01:00:36.880]  They've developed this culture of impunity where the guy says, well, he's inside department
[01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:37.880]  guidelines.
[01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:38.880]  I said, okay.
[01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:40.240]  I had a guy screaming at me one night.
[01:00:40.240 --> 01:00:42.320]  I can ask you anything I want.
[01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:46.200]  Later on, the guy said, I was told... Well, I reviewed the film.
[01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:47.200]  I don't think he was screaming.
[01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:49.240]  I said, I was three feet from him.
[01:00:49.240 --> 01:00:50.240]  He was screaming.
[01:00:50.240 --> 01:00:51.240]  I said, too.
[01:00:51.240 --> 01:00:54.200]  Can he ask me about my religious ideas?
[01:00:54.200 --> 01:00:55.480]  Well, certainly not.
[01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:56.480]  Okay.
[01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:58.720]  He can't ask me anything.
[01:00:58.720 --> 01:01:00.720]  Can he?
[01:01:00.720 --> 01:01:07.440]  Once again, I have a stack of warnings because my car is old enough to vote and I have light
[01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:08.440]  bulbs burnt out.
[01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:10.800]  The thing is, I don't have a huge roster.
[01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:12.280]  I have no tickets.
[01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:16.080]  I have no tickets for harming anybody.
[01:01:16.080 --> 01:01:19.000]  I have no tickets for actual law breaking.
[01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:28.120]  I have a stack of warnings, but they use each warning or any stop as a... This is why Daryl
[01:01:28.120 --> 01:01:33.240]  Gates is burning in Dante's hell for being proactive.
[01:01:33.240 --> 01:01:39.000]  I was told by the one guy, he said, I don't want to answer my questions, and I said, because
[01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:40.000]  they're totally pointless.
[01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:43.000]  They have no practical application, and they can't be verified.
[01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:48.360]  I'm just trying to be, once again, cordial, and you, you're paranoid.
[01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:51.560]  Are you a licensed psychotherapist?
[01:01:51.560 --> 01:01:53.880]  I venture to say that you are not.
[01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:56.920]  Have you detected evidence of delusions of persecution?
[01:01:56.920 --> 01:01:59.760]  I'm sure any resistance to you is a delusion of persecution.
[01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:00.760]  How about retrospective falsification?
[01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:01.760]  He says, huh?
[01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:08.560]  Gee, I guess you don't know much about paranoia, do you?
[01:02:08.560 --> 01:02:13.440]  You start talking to these clowns about a burned out light bulb, and it never ends until
[01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:14.440]  they've had their fun.
[01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:18.320]  This is why I pay them.
[01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:19.520]  They work for me.
[01:02:19.520 --> 01:02:20.520]  I don't work for them.
[01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:25.080]  I've been told, he's a business talk to an officer that way, and I said, employers frequently
[01:02:25.080 --> 01:02:28.360]  talk to employees in a manner that the employees find offensive.
[01:02:28.360 --> 01:02:31.600]  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
[01:02:31.600 --> 01:02:35.240]  He looked at me and he said, yeah, you work for me.
[01:02:35.240 --> 01:02:36.240]  I'm your boss.
[01:02:36.240 --> 01:02:39.840]  The same way I'm Rick Parrott's boss.
[01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:42.360]  I was George Bush's boss.
[01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:44.120]  I'm Nancy Pelosi's boss.
[01:02:44.120 --> 01:02:45.120]  I'm a citizen.
[01:02:45.120 --> 01:02:48.760]  Citizens have an expectation of decent treatment.
[01:02:48.760 --> 01:03:02.920]  This is what I address in my writ is that we have an expectation of fair treatment,
[01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:10.280]  and most everything they do, at least from the advice of the prosecutor, is designed
[01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:18.040]  to interrupt our expectation of fair treatment, to give us the feeling that we can get no
[01:03:18.040 --> 01:03:25.600]  justice here, that the only thing we can rationally and reasonably do is accept the deal when
[01:03:25.600 --> 01:03:26.600]  it comes.
[01:03:26.600 --> 01:03:27.600]  It ain't necessarily so.
[01:03:27.600 --> 01:03:42.600]  I'm sure that you've been through this probably many more times than I have.
[01:03:42.600 --> 01:03:49.960]  I've been asked, like the last time they were rationing up to call me for jury duty, I was
[01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:55.160]  asked, sir, how do you feel that the legal system develops fair and just verdicts all
[01:03:55.160 --> 01:03:56.160]  and most of the time?
[01:03:56.160 --> 01:04:01.280]  I just looked at him and he said, sir, and I said, if you hit 40 percent, I'd be astonished.
[01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:05.200]  He said, well, sir, do you have any grounds for saying that?
[01:04:05.200 --> 01:04:06.200]  I said, okay.
[01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:09.200]  Does the word tulia ring any bells?
[01:04:09.200 --> 01:04:20.840]  You get a bunch of folks who can't afford, you know, Roy Minton, they can't afford Baker
[01:04:20.840 --> 01:04:21.840]  and Bottes.
[01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:25.560]  You tell them that they're as good as gone and that the best thing they can do is make
[01:04:25.560 --> 01:04:31.000]  a deal, so they sign off on ridiculous sentences to keep from getting, you know, a surrealistic
[01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:32.000]  sentence.
[01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:37.720]  Then, ultimately, you find the whole house of cards falls apart, but, you know, two digits
[01:04:37.720 --> 01:04:40.640]  worth of people have been locked up for nothing.
[01:04:40.640 --> 01:04:46.600]  You know, what's his name, Terry McEachern, the little tyrant behind all that?
[01:04:46.600 --> 01:04:53.240]  You know, he should be in the walls unit and he's not, especially the dimwit sheriff who
[01:04:53.240 --> 01:04:59.960]  hired this, you know, obviously, you know, radically dangerous and unqualified, you know,
[01:04:59.960 --> 01:05:00.960]  undercover cop.
[01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:06.280]  And then you wonder why, and then you keep hearing, why do people have so much contempt
[01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:07.280]  for the legal system?
[01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:11.120]  I don't know, the actions of judges and lawyers, could that be it?
[01:05:11.120 --> 01:05:18.040]  Well, I opt for the lawyers, I mean, for the judges, they're the ones I'm after, but we
[01:05:18.040 --> 01:05:21.000]  really need to move on, we got a lot of callers.
[01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.840]  Who's running the asylum, best question.
[01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:27.720]  Oh, speed your mighty work.
[01:05:27.720 --> 01:05:30.720]  And thank you for calling, Trevor, I like your use of language.
[01:05:30.720 --> 01:05:33.720]  Thank you for, yes, Trevor, yes.
[01:05:33.720 --> 01:05:36.120]  Well, continue to continue.
[01:05:36.120 --> 01:05:40.720]  I appreciate your spirit.
[01:05:40.720 --> 01:05:42.200]  Thank you so much for calling in.
[01:05:42.200 --> 01:05:45.200]  Take care of yourself.
[01:05:45.200 --> 01:05:48.200]  Okay, you as well.
[01:05:48.200 --> 01:05:56.000]  Before I go to the next caller, I just want to make a quick comment that I see not only
[01:05:56.000 --> 01:06:01.500]  us as the victims here, but the police as well.
[01:06:01.500 --> 01:06:11.240]  From what Ben was saying, and from what we all can see, you get these certain people
[01:06:11.240 --> 01:06:17.920]  who are probably insecure, the bully in the parking lot mentality, the people who are
[01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:21.980]  running these training programs prey on that.
[01:06:21.980 --> 01:06:25.260]  They want to see the escalation.
[01:06:25.260 --> 01:06:29.600]  They want to see the cops escalating against us and us escalating back.
[01:06:29.600 --> 01:06:35.080]  They want to see this clash so that more and more people get run through the jailing system
[01:06:35.080 --> 01:06:38.440]  so that they can make the money.
[01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:44.640]  And honestly, I see the police being frustrated with this.
[01:06:44.640 --> 01:06:48.000]  They know they don't like it.
[01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:51.200]  They know they want real respect.
[01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:57.360]  They don't know how to get real respect from us or from others, so they have to put on
[01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:05.640]  this front and with the badge and the gun and everything else and force it to forcibly
[01:07:05.640 --> 01:07:13.560]  take it from us, but I know deep inside that's not what they really want, okay?
[01:07:13.560 --> 01:07:15.960]  It just can't be.
[01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:19.400]  It just can't be.
[01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:24.320]  We've got to find a way to break through these psychological barriers, and we're not going
[01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:25.320]  to do it on the street.
[01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:27.800]  We're not going to do it in the heat of anger.
[01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:31.480]  We've got to take control of these training programs, and I'm telling you, the feds have
[01:07:31.480 --> 01:07:37.160]  infiltrated these training programs and the UN as well, okay?
[01:07:37.160 --> 01:07:40.640]  It's like I almost feel sorry for these people, all right?
[01:07:40.640 --> 01:07:47.920]  I mean, I respect them on a human level, but it really is sad because the bad guys are
[01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:49.520]  using the police against us.
[01:07:49.520 --> 01:07:53.040]  They're using us against the police, and nobody wins here.
[01:07:53.040 --> 01:07:54.400]  The cops don't win.
[01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:55.400]  We don't win.
[01:07:55.400 --> 01:07:56.400]  Who wins?
[01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:01.960]  The people who win are the people that are making all the money off of all of it, okay?
[01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:04.880]  We've got to see deeper into this, all right?
[01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:05.880]  Let's move on.
[01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:07.920]  We're going to go to Scott in Connecticut.
[01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:09.920]  Scott, thanks for calling in.
[01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:12.920]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:08:12.920 --> 01:08:18.680]  Scott, okay.
[01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:21.920]  We're going to go to Mike in Texas.
[01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:24.960]  Mike, thanks for calling in.
[01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:25.960]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:08:25.960 --> 01:08:26.960]  Hey.
[01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:30.960]  Then we're going to go to Dan, real in Connecticut, by the way.
[01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:33.960]  Go ahead, Mike.
[01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:34.960]  Okay.
[01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:39.000]  Man, this has been a great show.
[01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:49.800]  Some things have occurred to me just from listening, especially listening to the police
[01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:56.640]  officer ban.
[01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:06.680]  Police officers are there for enforcement, law enforcement.
[01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:12.120]  I just had a break-in in my studio a couple of weeks ago.
[01:09:12.120 --> 01:09:18.920]  Police officers come over, investigate, and nothing really gets done because the crime's
[01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:21.360]  already been committed.
[01:09:21.360 --> 01:09:32.880]  Who's in charge of preventing crimes?
[01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.800]  The way I see it, it's the people.
[01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:39.200]  The people are in charge of preventing the crimes.
[01:09:39.200 --> 01:09:49.320]  If we were doing our jobs, we wouldn't need that many police officers on the street.
[01:09:49.320 --> 01:09:54.920]  Officer Ben could bring as many people to the magistrate as he wanted to, as many as
[01:09:54.920 --> 01:10:05.160]  he could round up in one night, because there just wouldn't be that many people being arrested.
[01:10:05.160 --> 01:10:19.240]  Also, statistics on violent crimes, from what I understand, really, most of the people in
[01:10:19.240 --> 01:10:25.400]  jail and in prison are there for non-violent crimes.
[01:10:25.400 --> 01:10:28.400]  Absolutely.
[01:10:28.400 --> 01:10:35.120]  That's what's crazy about the whole mess.
[01:10:35.120 --> 01:10:38.000]  It's just a big money-making scheme.
[01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:45.680]  I know that a good portion of the police officers out there, a good portion of them really know
[01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:51.040]  that, but I think there's a lot of them out there that don't realize it.
[01:10:51.040 --> 01:10:57.520]  It's people like Ben who don't get that.
[01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:05.040]  They don't get it that they're here to make money for the state.
[01:11:05.040 --> 01:11:06.600]  That's it.
[01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:10.800]  That's what they're there for, law enforcement.
[01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:14.720]  You can't enforce a law until it's been broken.
[01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:22.440]  No, in my neighborhood here in Houston, a couple of months ago, some guys walked into
[01:11:22.440 --> 01:11:30.440]  a restaurant and just robbed everybody there at gunpoint.
[01:11:30.440 --> 01:11:40.560]  My question is, if you walk into a restaurant and you know everybody in that place, every
[01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:49.240]  man and woman in that place, as well as the employees and the restaurant owner, is armed,
[01:11:49.240 --> 01:11:55.960]  are you going to try to pull something like that?
[01:11:55.960 --> 01:12:00.520]  That depends upon the IQ available, just as an example.
[01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:06.560]  When I was living in Colorado, working up there, there were, and this is not a racial
[01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:12.920]  slur of any kind, but it is a fact, two black men walked into a gun show in...
[01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:13.920]  Eddie?
[01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:18.920]  One of those guys is listening to the show.
[01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:23.920]  Hold on, hold on, I'm going to get him back up.
[01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:34.200]  Hey, also, I wanted to mention to you, Debra, you've been checking out Alex Jones, and I
[01:12:34.200 --> 01:12:41.120]  know you've looked into the MIAC report and all that, ADL, I wonder if that's who's running
[01:12:41.120 --> 01:12:43.120]  the training program.
[01:12:43.120 --> 01:12:44.120]  ABL.
[01:12:44.120 --> 01:12:46.120]  The ADL.
[01:12:46.120 --> 01:12:49.120]  Anti-defamation league.
[01:12:49.120 --> 01:12:51.280]  No, no.
[01:12:51.280 --> 01:12:54.720]  These are private companies.
[01:12:54.720 --> 01:13:00.240]  You have criminal justice programs in college, it's a two-year college course, and then you
[01:13:00.240 --> 01:13:05.360]  have private companies that contract to do the training, but the state authorizes the
[01:13:05.360 --> 01:13:06.360]  training.
[01:13:06.360 --> 01:13:14.760]  Yeah, well, we really need to look into that, but Mike, I wouldn't... I don't know if it's
[01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:15.760]  specifically the ADL.
[01:13:15.760 --> 01:13:25.480]  The ADL is just a branch of a larger scheme, but I definitely know there is federalization
[01:13:25.480 --> 01:13:31.160]  of our local police, and ultimately, this is all coming down from the UN, this is all
[01:13:31.160 --> 01:13:38.200]  coming down from an insistence on global government, and exactly who all... I mean, the ADL, they're
[01:13:38.200 --> 01:13:40.680]  just a pawn as well.
[01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:50.960]  Well, yeah, but I know, but I mean, you could probably directly... I bet if we all got
[01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:55.960]  together and did the research, we could probably tie it all to...
[01:13:55.960 --> 01:13:58.720]  We need to find out the exact statutes...
[01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:02.200]  If we do, then we know it's got to be...
[01:14:02.200 --> 01:14:07.240]  We need to find out the exact statutes that fund these training programs, and not just
[01:14:07.240 --> 01:14:11.160]  the police academy, but whatever other training programs that they go through.
[01:14:11.160 --> 01:14:17.520]  All right, we need to find out the statutes that fund it, who pushed the bills for the
[01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:26.800]  funding, who appointed the teachers, who sets the curriculum, what the background is, try
[01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:33.520]  to match up the curriculum with other curriculum programs and agendas of the UN and the feds
[01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:34.960]  and all this kind of thing.
[01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:37.680]  We all need to get on this.
[01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:38.680]  Absolutely.
[01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:44.160]  I'm glad that you brought that up, because it didn't really occur to me.
[01:14:44.160 --> 01:14:46.200]  The police are being trained.
[01:14:46.200 --> 01:14:54.320]  I am one of those people who believe... I talk to cops, and I'm one of those people
[01:14:54.320 --> 01:14:59.280]  who believe that really most of the cops out there, they don't want to do... They want
[01:14:59.280 --> 01:15:01.320]  to serve the public.
[01:15:01.320 --> 01:15:07.280]  They want to hold people accountable for crimes.
[01:15:07.280 --> 01:15:11.920]  I think most of them really do want to do the right thing.
[01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:12.920]  Right.
[01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:15.080]  They want to make the community a better place.
[01:15:15.080 --> 01:15:21.720]  The problem is that the people who are telling them what is supposed to be a good community
[01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:29.240]  are the very people who would like to just not take everything away from them.
[01:15:29.240 --> 01:15:35.560]  Here's one thing that Ben said, and he made an analogy regarding the military.
[01:15:35.560 --> 01:15:43.960]  This has become more and more prevalent, where the police see themselves as some kind of
[01:15:43.960 --> 01:15:48.720]  military, and they openly refer to us as civilians.
[01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:50.200]  Yeah, I know.
[01:15:50.200 --> 01:15:57.880]  This is a very dangerous thing, because the job of the police is to serve and protect.
[01:15:57.880 --> 01:16:00.440]  Military training is totally different.
[01:16:00.440 --> 01:16:04.000]  Kill and break things, and take over.
[01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:08.000]  That's not what the role of the police are supposed to be.
[01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:09.000]  You know what?
[01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:13.320]  They're really shouldn't have... All we hear about all the time is, we need more police.
[01:16:13.320 --> 01:16:15.520]  We need more cops out there to do this.
[01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:16.880]  No, we don't.
[01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:18.360]  They're not preventing anything.
[01:16:18.360 --> 01:16:21.000]  They're not stopping anything.
[01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:28.240]  All they're doing, all they can do is hold people accountable when they catch them doing
[01:16:28.240 --> 01:16:29.240]  something.
[01:16:29.240 --> 01:16:34.040]  Really, most of it is traffic-related.
[01:16:34.040 --> 01:16:41.200]  Yeah, Mike, when you were talking about the Monaco, Mike, when you were saying it's the
[01:16:41.200 --> 01:16:46.440]  law enforcement, there's one thing I'd like to interject there.
[01:16:46.440 --> 01:16:49.640]  There's two different types of officers we deal with.
[01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:56.000]  You have the peace officer, whose job is to protect the public and maintain the peace.
[01:16:56.000 --> 01:17:03.520]  That is a vast difference from a law enforcement officer who sees his duty as break the rules
[01:17:03.520 --> 01:17:07.600]  over their back when they don't follow them.
[01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:11.400]  There's a difference in that mentality and that application.
[01:17:11.400 --> 01:17:15.320]  Yeah, I agree.
[01:17:15.320 --> 01:17:16.320]  I agree.
[01:17:16.320 --> 01:17:27.080]  Well, I think, in a way, it's everybody's responsibility to some extent to be a peace
[01:17:27.080 --> 01:17:35.280]  officer because we're the ones who are either the victims of the crime or who witness crimes
[01:17:35.280 --> 01:17:40.640]  being committed when they're happening.
[01:17:40.640 --> 01:18:07.440]  If you take it even a step further, law enforcement, to me, doesn't carry as much weight as prevention.
[01:18:07.440 --> 01:18:16.800]  I think that terminology has kind of been spun around the opposite to where law enforcement
[01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:22.200]  is more critical to our society than prevention.
[01:18:22.200 --> 01:18:31.560]  Prevention has this weak need connotation to it, but it's far more important to prevent
[01:18:31.560 --> 01:18:32.560]  the crime.
[01:18:32.560 --> 01:18:47.480]  They're pushing the police as our ultimate protector because I'm afraid that they're
[01:18:47.480 --> 01:18:50.160]  going to become our ultimate oppressor.
[01:18:50.160 --> 01:18:51.160]  Exactly.
[01:18:51.160 --> 01:19:00.960]  If we don't become proactive and start taking action ourselves to keep our police in control,
[01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:06.400]  they're going to get more out of control than they are, if you can imagine such a thing.
[01:19:06.400 --> 01:19:07.400]  Well, yes.
[01:19:07.400 --> 01:19:14.560]  If you have a gun on your hip, that is going to prevent so much crime without saying a
[01:19:14.560 --> 01:19:23.160]  word, without ever having to draw that weapon, without ever even having to touch that weapon.
[01:19:23.160 --> 01:19:30.800]  I was once thrown through the top half of a window in Thailand in a bar fight.
[01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:33.680]  Nobody there armed to the teeth.
[01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:38.600]  Nobody even thought about pulling a weapon.
[01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:39.600]  Not an option.
[01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:40.600]  All right.
[01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:41.600]  Mike, listen.
[01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:42.600]  Listen.
[01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:43.600]  We need to move on.
[01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:44.600]  I'm sorry.
[01:19:44.600 --> 01:19:45.600]  We still have a total full board of callers.
[01:19:45.600 --> 01:19:46.600]  No problem.
[01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:49.600]  Can I stay on just to listen?
[01:19:49.600 --> 01:19:50.920]  Yes, you can.
[01:19:50.920 --> 01:19:51.920]  You can stay on to listen.
[01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:52.920]  Awesome.
[01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:53.920]  Thank you.
[01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:54.920]  All right.
[01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:55.920]  You're welcome.
[01:19:55.920 --> 01:20:02.320]  Yeah, and before I take the next call, I just want to comment that we have to realize there's
[01:20:02.320 --> 01:20:04.120]  an agenda in place here.
[01:20:04.120 --> 01:20:05.120]  Okay?
[01:20:05.120 --> 01:20:12.320]  The bad guys, the Illuminati, whatever you want to call them, the banksters, they want
[01:20:12.320 --> 01:20:20.200]  to put in place a police state, a prison police state economy society, all right?
[01:20:20.200 --> 01:20:22.800]  They don't want us to be educated.
[01:20:22.800 --> 01:20:25.880]  They don't want the police to be educated.
[01:20:25.880 --> 01:20:34.200]  They do not want us to have a thought process of obeying laws, to repeal laws, and these
[01:20:34.200 --> 01:20:41.920]  kinds of things because their agenda is complete and total control and enslavement down to
[01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:47.520]  fiat currency and the whole nine yards, people, all right?
[01:20:47.520 --> 01:20:53.000]  This is why Alex Jones calls his website prisonplanet.com, all right?
[01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:54.360]  And that's just the way it is.
[01:20:54.360 --> 01:20:55.360]  That's what they want.
[01:20:55.360 --> 01:21:00.040]  The Bible tells us that's what we're seeing, all right, so we can't really demonize the
[01:21:00.040 --> 01:21:01.040]  police.
[01:21:01.040 --> 01:21:04.840]  They're victims as much as we are of this whole thing, and we've got to try to get
[01:21:04.840 --> 01:21:09.600]  control of it at the local level as much as possible, like what Eddie and I were talking
[01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:10.600]  about last night.
[01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:11.600]  Okay?
[01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:14.880]  Ultimately, we're not going to be able to stop it, all right?
[01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:16.600]  There's going to be global government.
[01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:22.800]  There's going to be global currency and the mark of the beast and the whole thing.
[01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:30.680]  All we can do is stand up against it and do what we can to establish and provide the wilderness
[01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:35.720]  for God's people to have a haven, okay?
[01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:37.040]  And that's just the way it is.
[01:21:37.040 --> 01:21:38.040]  There is an agenda.
[01:21:38.040 --> 01:21:43.440]  They want the police state that they're working towards that very aggressively, all right?
[01:21:43.440 --> 01:21:50.200]  It's the global police state prison economy, society, they don't want free thought, so
[01:21:50.200 --> 01:21:52.760]  we just have to fight it the best we can on all levels, all right?
[01:21:52.760 --> 01:21:54.960]  We're going to go now to Dan in Connecticut.
[01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:58.280]  All right, Dan, thanks for holding so long.
[01:21:58.280 --> 01:21:59.280]  What's on your mind?
[01:21:59.280 --> 01:22:07.520]  Nothing much, just a quick story, actually a quick point, a preface to that quick point
[01:22:07.520 --> 01:22:10.480]  and then two quick stories and I'll be out of your hair.
[01:22:10.480 --> 01:22:11.480]  Oh, don't worry about it.
[01:22:11.480 --> 01:22:12.480]  Go ahead.
[01:22:12.480 --> 01:22:20.160]  Well, first of all, as far as doing all this stuff, they're really falling short of it.
[01:22:20.160 --> 01:22:25.320]  I really give faith to the American people here because they've really done such a good
[01:22:25.320 --> 01:22:31.680]  job of just being prepared already and a lot of people see the writing on the wall and
[01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:37.200]  you're probably going to notice that with the next three things I'm going to mention.
[01:22:37.200 --> 01:22:43.080]  The first thing I want to bring up is you had a police officer call in and that is the
[01:22:43.080 --> 01:22:47.040]  primary and only reason I have held on for this long because I wanted to weigh in on
[01:22:47.040 --> 01:22:48.040]  it.
[01:22:48.040 --> 01:22:58.560]  First, if you're willing, I don't care who you are, to use your life to shield my person,
[01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:02.840]  my property or my unalienable rights, you're my friend.
[01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:08.560]  I don't care if whatever you're doing, if you're a member of the Socialist Party even,
[01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:11.440]  I could care less.
[01:23:11.440 --> 01:23:17.160]  That is just something we have to recognize right here.
[01:23:17.160 --> 01:23:21.600]  Second thing, I just wanted to go over these next two stories which you guys know about
[01:23:21.600 --> 01:23:26.560]  them, you've heard about them probably over a year ago, but I just want to re-emphasize
[01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:33.000]  these for the listeners who are on the air right now and who haven't heard them already.
[01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:41.000]  The first story involved a certain police chief in my town and everybody was raising
[01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:47.080]  all kinds of crazy accusations because he was charged with official oppression, tyranny,
[01:23:47.080 --> 01:23:53.040]  whatnot, all nine yards, a whole bunch of charges range from pulling somebody over with
[01:23:53.040 --> 01:23:58.360]  a police cruiser just for the purpose of sleeping with them or whatever, but the thing that
[01:23:58.360 --> 01:24:06.160]  never happened here and I just want to mention this because it needs to be said is he never
[01:24:06.160 --> 01:24:11.360]  got a day in court, he never got a trial and during the police commission, I just want
[01:24:11.360 --> 01:24:17.440]  to stop and ask here, do we have any language restrictions after hours?
[01:24:17.440 --> 01:24:25.760]  I would appreciate not having languages because our affiliates rerun our archives.
[01:24:25.760 --> 01:24:32.120]  I'll abbreviate what was said in the best way possible and I think people could appreciate
[01:24:32.120 --> 01:24:38.600]  that, but when it was asked that the police commission read the charges, I was the first
[01:24:38.600 --> 01:24:51.040]  person to stand up and say BS, read the blank charges and a lot of people followed that
[01:24:51.040 --> 01:24:55.080]  and they actually read the charges.
[01:24:55.080 --> 01:25:00.600]  The point I was trying to make with that and I think a lot of people miss this sad to say
[01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:07.000]  was that I don't care what this guy was charged with, he deserved his day in court, he deserved
[01:25:07.000 --> 01:25:13.040]  a hearing, but in the end, they ended up deciding let's just give this guy a golden parachute
[01:25:13.040 --> 01:25:18.880]  because he was the police chief for X amount of years, whatever and at least there were
[01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:25.040]  people there that could understand at least halfway to it.
[01:25:25.040 --> 01:25:31.160]  Another story I want to bring up, I told you guys about a ballot access issue we had and
[01:25:31.160 --> 01:25:36.720]  there was a certain case where New London's finest out in Connecticut, they were about
[01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:43.760]  to arrest a petitioner for Ralph Nader to get on the ballot and on a public street.
[01:25:43.760 --> 01:25:49.160]  Granted this was a public event, granted a bunch of people were given permits to be there,
[01:25:49.160 --> 01:25:54.800]  but the first thing I did and by the way before I continue, I just want to give the story
[01:25:54.800 --> 01:25:59.800]  to give people hope out there that yes, there are a lot more people out there than those
[01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:04.760]  going on and they realize they have to defuse these situations.
[01:26:04.760 --> 01:26:09.680]  That said, basically I directed a friend of mine that was there that had a permit to have
[01:26:09.680 --> 01:26:17.680]  her own booth, I said, hey, get your camcorder, record this, the person there that was organized
[01:26:17.680 --> 01:26:25.000]  in the festival basically yelled, you can't be here, you have to have a permit to petition
[01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:29.160]  for anything, whatever and then she basically got on the radio and said, this is a political
[01:26:29.160 --> 01:26:37.000]  protest and I yelled at her because I knew she thought she was doing the right thing
[01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:44.440]  and I said don't broadcast that over the radio, that's really going to make you look bad.
[01:26:44.440 --> 01:26:50.120]  Long story short, the Ralph Nader petitioners ended up not being arrested, I ended up not
[01:26:50.120 --> 01:26:56.880]  being arrested and the conversation with the officer at that point degenerated to me saying,
[01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:03.680]  okay, what am I being arrested for, am I being detained, am I free to go and you know what,
[01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:07.960]  I could kind of tell, you know, the officer thought he was doing the right thing and he
[01:27:07.960 --> 01:27:10.760]  eventually figured it out.
[01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:15.520]  So that was just a situation where I recognized that everybody was trying to do the right
[01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:21.800]  thing as far as they realized and eventually they got it.
[01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:28.520]  So that's nothing that listeners of this network and other similar ones can't do.
[01:27:28.520 --> 01:27:34.560]  So I just want to leave it at that and say, you know what, police really kind of get the
[01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:39.080]  clue after a while, I mean you don't even have to go to the point of criminal charge
[01:27:39.080 --> 01:27:40.560]  in many cases.
[01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:47.000]  Yeah, I think the hard part of this is for the most part everybody's trying to do the
[01:27:47.000 --> 01:27:49.160]  right thing.
[01:27:49.160 --> 01:27:55.440]  The police are, even the ones that are jerks, okay, they're not doing the right thing very
[01:27:55.440 --> 01:28:01.280]  elegantly but most of them are still trying to do the right thing and this doesn't take
[01:28:01.280 --> 01:28:06.560]  a major revolution, it just takes a minor adjustment.
[01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:15.040]  You're right and that definitely gives me a lot of hope.
[01:28:15.040 --> 01:28:20.880]  I would direct any law enforcement officials who may be listening right now to research
[01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:28.160]  officer Jack McClam, okay, police and military against new world order, police and military
[01:28:28.160 --> 01:28:38.040]  for productivity of coordinating with citizens, all right, to realize that you guys are our
[01:28:38.040 --> 01:28:39.040]  friends.
[01:28:39.040 --> 01:28:40.040]  We're your friends.
[01:28:40.040 --> 01:28:42.040]  We're not against you.
[01:28:42.040 --> 01:28:45.160]  You all shouldn't be against us.
[01:28:45.160 --> 01:28:46.440]  We're not alone out there.
[01:28:46.440 --> 01:28:54.080]  Yeah, I mean think about how much easier a peace officer's job would be with a cooperative
[01:28:54.080 --> 01:28:58.320]  public, not an antagonistic or an alienated public.
[01:28:58.320 --> 01:29:08.360]  Yeah, and I think the law enforcement needs to realize that nothing personal, same happened
[01:29:08.360 --> 01:29:10.160]  to us.
[01:29:10.160 --> 01:29:12.400]  We're being used like pawns.
[01:29:12.400 --> 01:29:15.560]  You guys are being used like pawns, okay.
[01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:19.080]  The bad guys are pitting the cops against us.
[01:29:19.080 --> 01:29:24.160]  They're pitting us against the cops, all right, and everybody's getting the wool pulled over
[01:29:24.160 --> 01:29:28.520]  their eyes and nobody is winning here at this level.
[01:29:28.520 --> 01:29:35.480]  The bad guys are winning, okay, and so, you know, we all need to wake up and see what's
[01:29:35.480 --> 01:29:38.120]  really going on here.
[01:29:38.120 --> 01:29:41.960]  That's why I started with the first story, because at that particular police commission
[01:29:41.960 --> 01:29:48.200]  hearing, I heard all kinds of rumors about that guy, and a lot of people were just going
[01:29:48.200 --> 01:29:53.280]  around convicting him in the court of public opinion, okay.
[01:29:53.280 --> 01:29:55.680]  Maybe he did that stuff.
[01:29:55.680 --> 01:30:01.920]  Maybe he didn't, but the bottom line, the point that I tried to make by being the first
[01:30:01.920 --> 01:30:10.040]  to not only just stand up, but yell in obscenity, I mean of like last resort, just to say, read
[01:30:10.040 --> 01:30:16.440]  the charges at the very least, you know, and give this guy his day in court, because we
[01:30:16.440 --> 01:30:22.080]  all go through the same thing every day, and, you know, if he ended up staying with the
[01:30:22.080 --> 01:30:26.760]  police force and if things ended up going that way, at least somebody would have been
[01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:36.720]  there to, you know, help give that hint in his mind, so he could better serve us.
[01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:38.720]  Safa.
[01:30:38.720 --> 01:30:40.720]  Randy?
[01:30:40.720 --> 01:30:45.520]  Yeah, I agree.
[01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:52.240]  You know, the police are not always the bad guys, and, you know, what I wanted to say
[01:30:52.240 --> 01:30:57.960]  to Ben, and I didn't get a chance, was that you don't hear about the good things the police
[01:30:57.960 --> 01:30:58.960]  do.
[01:30:58.960 --> 01:30:59.960]  You don't hear about the good cops.
[01:30:59.960 --> 01:31:03.240]  You only hear about the ones that cause a problem.
[01:31:03.240 --> 01:31:08.800]  You can go out there and do a hundred traffic stops, and nobody even notices, nobody thinks
[01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:10.440]  anything about it.
[01:31:10.440 --> 01:31:18.360]  You do one when you're in a bad mood, some guy smacks you, and you pop off back to him.
[01:31:18.360 --> 01:31:20.360]  Everybody hears about that.
[01:31:20.360 --> 01:31:29.840]  It goes to Mark Anthony when he said, I come to Barry Caesar not to praise him.
[01:31:29.840 --> 01:31:36.360]  The bad men do live after them, the good is often turned with their bones.
[01:31:36.360 --> 01:31:39.520]  Nobody hears the good stuff, they only hear the bad stuff.
[01:31:39.520 --> 01:31:45.440]  Well, I mean, Randy, you and I have talked about the good stuff that's happened in New
[01:31:45.440 --> 01:31:49.720]  York when we were there, the NYPD.
[01:31:49.720 --> 01:31:51.840]  They were exemplary.
[01:31:51.840 --> 01:31:54.680]  Yes, they were.
[01:31:54.680 --> 01:31:59.120]  They were absolutely exemplary, okay?
[01:31:59.120 --> 01:32:03.360]  And I don't know what kind of training programs they went through, but I'll tell you what,
[01:32:03.360 --> 01:32:06.120]  no matter what it was, they rose above.
[01:32:06.120 --> 01:32:10.400]  Those people, the men and the women there were just extraordinary.
[01:32:10.400 --> 01:32:19.080]  Yeah, this is when we were at ground zero, 9-11, a couple of years ago.
[01:32:19.080 --> 01:32:22.800]  I was frankly surprised.
[01:32:22.800 --> 01:32:31.200]  I grew up in the inner city in Chicago on the near north side, really bad neighborhood.
[01:32:31.200 --> 01:32:37.080]  And because of my experience with the police there, I expected something quite different
[01:32:37.080 --> 01:32:39.840]  than what I actually found.
[01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:47.600]  I mean, these people, these police officers were putting up with people losing their tempers
[01:32:47.600 --> 01:32:54.760]  and screaming in their faces and not reacting.
[01:32:54.760 --> 01:32:55.760]  It was amazing.
[01:32:55.760 --> 01:32:57.760]  I was totally impressed.
[01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:02.280]  Well, yeah, but in New York, they don't lose their temper until you steal their pizza or
[01:33:02.280 --> 01:33:03.280]  their hoagie.
[01:33:03.280 --> 01:33:11.440]  All right, Dan, do you have anything else for us, Dan?
[01:33:11.440 --> 01:33:13.480]  Nothing much aside from that.
[01:33:13.480 --> 01:33:19.360]  I noticed a lot of people, they do focus on that, but I'll just leave it with this.
[01:33:19.360 --> 01:33:23.280]  I know my posture with that thing that happened down in New London.
[01:33:23.280 --> 01:33:29.200]  If that officer decided to arrest me, I would have filed criminal charges.
[01:33:29.200 --> 01:33:33.360]  It would have been very animated and very interesting.
[01:33:33.360 --> 01:33:39.560]  But my position was, I know this guy thinks he's doing the right thing.
[01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:42.200]  I really don't want to do that.
[01:33:42.200 --> 01:33:46.640]  When the same thing goes to elected officials, I must have told you about Frank Reel, the
[01:33:46.640 --> 01:33:48.640]  fictitious voter, right?
[01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:49.640]  Yes.
[01:33:49.640 --> 01:33:50.640]  Yes.
[01:33:50.640 --> 01:33:58.600]  In any case, all I had to do was mention these three words, grand jury complaint, and my
[01:33:58.600 --> 01:34:07.160]  wife had the right to vote again, which I had no problem with that.
[01:34:07.160 --> 01:34:12.080]  I was laughing on the inside and thinking, I've got a cell phone here.
[01:34:12.080 --> 01:34:19.440]  I'm not sure whether I want to dial 911, let's wait and see what happens, but it worked out
[01:34:19.440 --> 01:34:22.640]  and they did their job.
[01:34:22.640 --> 01:34:24.720]  It was a lot better.
[01:34:24.720 --> 01:34:27.440]  I really felt good about it.
[01:34:27.440 --> 01:34:31.320]  I think that's definitely something to take away from this.
[01:34:31.320 --> 01:34:33.320]  All right.
[01:34:33.320 --> 01:34:34.320]  Excellent.
[01:34:34.320 --> 01:34:35.320]  Okay.
[01:34:35.320 --> 01:34:37.320]  Well, you guys have a good show.
[01:34:37.320 --> 01:34:38.320]  I'll talk to you later.
[01:34:38.320 --> 01:34:39.320]  All right.
[01:34:39.320 --> 01:34:40.320]  We've got two more callers.
[01:34:40.320 --> 01:34:41.320]  Thanks, Dan.
[01:34:41.320 --> 01:34:42.320]  All right.
[01:34:42.320 --> 01:34:45.320]  We've got two more callers on the line.
[01:34:45.320 --> 01:34:50.320]  My assistant producer has come back from playing pool and hanging out with the gang and is
[01:34:50.320 --> 01:34:53.320]  like, you guys still in the air?
[01:34:53.320 --> 01:34:56.320]  Yeah, we're still in the air.
[01:34:56.320 --> 01:34:57.320]  Okay.
[01:34:57.320 --> 01:34:59.320]  We're going to go back to Rick in California.
[01:34:59.320 --> 01:35:02.960]  Okay, Rick, thanks for hanging with us so long.
[01:35:02.960 --> 01:35:03.960]  Please continue.
[01:35:03.960 --> 01:35:04.960]  What's on your mind?
[01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:05.960]  Well, thanks for having me.
[01:35:05.960 --> 01:35:15.120]  It was very interesting and the funny part is I heard this officer talk and he sounded
[01:35:15.120 --> 01:35:22.720]  exactly the same like the officers over here in California, no different, just the same.
[01:35:22.720 --> 01:35:34.520]  When I say that, by that I mean, I understand that we are very peaceful, we are the people.
[01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:43.280]  However, in my opinion, okay, they do want to do good, but in the end it is us that pays
[01:35:43.280 --> 01:35:44.400]  the price.
[01:35:44.400 --> 01:35:45.400]  We pay the price.
[01:35:45.400 --> 01:35:50.760]  They say, I heard you guys say, well, they want to do good and they're just trapped.
[01:35:50.760 --> 01:35:55.760]  Yeah, you guys are right, but I, for the first time would have to say I disagree in the sense
[01:35:55.760 --> 01:36:00.440]  that, yeah, they do, but they're not the ones that have to sleep in a cold cell.
[01:36:00.440 --> 01:36:05.920]  They get to go home to their wives or husbands and children and we're stuck down there in
[01:36:05.920 --> 01:36:10.800]  the jail cell because they were just too lazy to do anything or because they don't know
[01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:11.800]  the law.
[01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:12.800]  You understand what I'm saying?
[01:36:12.800 --> 01:36:18.720]  In that sense, that I don't agree with because we do pay the price.
[01:36:18.720 --> 01:36:26.720]  Yeah, I agreed with that and we raised that issue to him when he was on that, yeah, we
[01:36:26.720 --> 01:36:28.760]  are the ones that pay for it.
[01:36:28.760 --> 01:36:34.320]  We're the ones that have to go through the booking procedures and the printing and when
[01:36:34.320 --> 01:36:40.360]  it took us to magistrate and the thing I didn't get a chance to say is it would keep the policeman
[01:36:40.360 --> 01:36:45.680]  from having time to get together and come up with a story.
[01:36:45.680 --> 01:36:50.320]  They would have to actually tell the truth.
[01:36:50.320 --> 01:36:52.280]  No testifying here.
[01:36:52.280 --> 01:36:55.400]  That is true.
[01:36:55.400 --> 01:36:56.400]  That is true.
[01:36:56.400 --> 01:37:02.480]  You know, what I've done, my technique here in the city of Glendale in California is that
[01:37:02.480 --> 01:37:08.600]  I have been stopped so many times that I honestly feel like I'm an expert now as to what to
[01:37:08.600 --> 01:37:09.600]  say.
[01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:13.680]  I mean, I'm still learning, but for the most part, I already know what I can and cannot
[01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:18.520]  do and making nobody feel the officer whether he's new or not, it's almost like down to
[01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:19.520]  a science.
[01:37:19.520 --> 01:37:27.760]  But at the same time, I turn the tables on them in the sense that, well, they're treating
[01:37:27.760 --> 01:37:33.520]  me as a casualty of war per se, just like they say and, you know, if I'm going to go
[01:37:33.520 --> 01:37:36.440]  to jail, I'm going to go to jail, well, that's true.
[01:37:36.440 --> 01:37:43.160]  Now I'm going to turn the tables and now they're going to be casualties of my civil actions
[01:37:43.160 --> 01:37:48.240]  or lawsuits or whatever you want to call it or criminal charges because I don't know if
[01:37:48.240 --> 01:37:53.840]  this officer meant to do it or not until after I start charging him, just like he doesn't
[01:37:53.840 --> 01:37:58.520]  know if I'm committing a crime until after he has already taken me to jail.
[01:37:58.520 --> 01:38:03.080]  So that's just the way I see it and I understand that there's a lot of good officers out there.
[01:38:03.080 --> 01:38:09.880]  It is only a few that are doing bad, but in my opinion, from what I understand, I could
[01:38:09.880 --> 01:38:15.480]  be mistaken, but an officer cannot stop me unless he sees me committing a felony or if
[01:38:15.480 --> 01:38:17.640]  he has a warrant for my arrest.
[01:38:17.640 --> 01:38:20.640]  Now call me crazy, but what are these citations for?
[01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:25.280]  Because the light is out and they say, well, that's a danger or somebody gets charged
[01:38:25.280 --> 01:38:27.040]  because a reckless driving.
[01:38:27.040 --> 01:38:28.040]  I say, really?
[01:38:28.040 --> 01:38:29.040]  Well, that's a crime, isn't it?
[01:38:29.040 --> 01:38:30.040]  Well, yes, it is.
[01:38:30.040 --> 01:38:31.040]  Really?
[01:38:31.040 --> 01:38:32.040]  Well, who did I injure?
[01:38:32.040 --> 01:38:33.040]  Well, nobody.
[01:38:33.040 --> 01:38:34.040]  Well, then you're charging me for something that hasn't even happened.
[01:38:34.040 --> 01:38:35.040]  Well, it already did happen.
[01:38:35.040 --> 01:38:36.040]  Really?
[01:38:36.040 --> 01:38:37.040]  Well, are you the victim?
[01:38:37.040 --> 01:38:38.040]  No.
[01:38:38.040 --> 01:38:41.040]  Well, I'm going to be the victim in my lawsuit, so I hope you're ready, you know?
[01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:43.040]  That's just the way I see it.
[01:38:43.040 --> 01:38:44.040]  I don't know.
[01:38:44.040 --> 01:38:48.280]  Actually, Rick, you got the felony part right, but the other is breach of the peace.
[01:38:48.280 --> 01:38:52.320]  If you're committing a breach of the peace in his presence, he has the authority to arrest
[01:38:52.320 --> 01:38:53.320]  without warrant.
[01:38:53.320 --> 01:39:00.560]  Well, actually, if you commit any crime at all in his presence, he can arrest.
[01:39:00.560 --> 01:39:04.640]  If I may... Go ahead, I'm sorry.
[01:39:04.640 --> 01:39:15.120]  Well, I was going to say, if I may just plug in my YouTube site again, because I read what
[01:39:15.120 --> 01:39:19.880]  the Court of Select I is, which the Supreme Court has held, there has to be for it to
[01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:20.880]  be a crime.
[01:39:20.880 --> 01:39:26.040]  There has to be a victim, injured party, proof of loss, injury or harm.
[01:39:26.040 --> 01:39:34.880]  My YouTube site is youtube.com forward slash tactical guy one, or you can just search Glendale
[01:39:34.880 --> 01:39:35.880]  police.
[01:39:35.880 --> 01:39:40.160]  I'm saying this because I'm starting to go into my black law dictionary, and I'm going
[01:39:40.160 --> 01:39:45.000]  to start reading most of the words there, so people can understand what they mean.
[01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:48.280]  For example, when you say, you're not under arrest, you're being detained.
[01:39:48.280 --> 01:39:49.280]  Well, that's funny.
[01:39:49.280 --> 01:39:58.280]  My black law dictionary says that that is a form of arrest, where is your warrant officer?
[01:39:58.280 --> 01:39:59.280]  They don't have one, and they don't like it.
[01:39:59.280 --> 01:40:05.000]  They absolutely do not like it when you call them on point of law, because it's like Eddie
[01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:13.280]  said, they don't really read the law itself, they read explanations about the law.
[01:40:13.280 --> 01:40:19.320]  Also, they get their emotions played on by these training programs, where it doesn't
[01:40:19.320 --> 01:40:23.720]  even have anything to do with law with these guys at all, it has to do with control.
[01:40:23.720 --> 01:40:29.560]  I heard Randy's huff when you talked, Rick, about how they have to have these certain
[01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:33.560]  things and that it requires an injury for it to be considered a crime.
[01:40:33.560 --> 01:40:38.360]  He and I have discussed this before, but that goes back to the things that I've talked about
[01:40:38.360 --> 01:40:43.080]  so many times about knowing the terminology used in the statute.
[01:40:43.080 --> 01:40:47.320]  The reason exactly for what you're talking about and the reason the Supreme Court says
[01:40:47.320 --> 01:40:55.200]  it must be that way is because you cannot injure a legal fiction.
[01:40:55.200 --> 01:41:00.600]  Now, you can injure someone attached to it or representing it, but you can't injure the
[01:41:00.600 --> 01:41:08.360]  fiction, which is why the rule is that when we're talking about a person, which is what
[01:41:08.360 --> 01:41:15.320]  the statutes they're trying to charge us under covers, there's no injury.
[01:41:15.320 --> 01:41:21.080]  We're not that person party that the law is speaking to, but the officer believes we are.
[01:41:21.080 --> 01:41:22.080]  Right.
[01:41:22.080 --> 01:41:29.600]  That goes to the same thing as to when I was in traffic court and they obviously have a
[01:41:29.600 --> 01:41:34.160]  plan out here in California, if you have no registration for whatever reason, I don't
[01:41:34.160 --> 01:41:39.560]  know if there's no victim there, but the point is that I had the judge vote from criminal
[01:41:39.560 --> 01:41:44.640]  and he jumped to saying, well, you consented, and I said, never do it.
[01:41:44.640 --> 01:41:51.480]  He goes, well, you consented when you contracted by signing the driver's license and it's amazing.
[01:41:51.480 --> 01:41:57.280]  I reported it and I put it on YouTube, some people, that it's mostly contracts.
[01:41:57.280 --> 01:42:03.280]  There's never any victim in most crimes and that's a fraud that they're committing on
[01:42:03.280 --> 01:42:08.600]  the people and the people just unfortunately do not understand that and that's the way
[01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:13.720]  that it's designed so that they don't understand, but one thing I want to say hopefully, I really
[01:42:13.720 --> 01:42:21.200]  hope from the bottom of my heart, Randy, Deb, and everybody that is listening, that we organize
[01:42:21.200 --> 01:42:27.680]  and not just, you know, spend because it's such a thing and share thoughts and explain
[01:42:27.680 --> 01:42:31.920]  and understand the other side as well, other people because we're all human beings.
[01:42:31.920 --> 01:42:37.360]  However, I believe that if we do not organize and by organize, I just mean that we all,
[01:42:37.360 --> 01:42:44.480]  you know, get together somehow, whether it's over the phone or not, we talk about things
[01:42:44.480 --> 01:42:49.640]  and help each other out because if we don't do that, you know, I really don't see how
[01:42:49.640 --> 01:42:56.040]  we're going to move forward in helping our officers that do want to change the ways that
[01:42:56.040 --> 01:42:57.040]  we have now.
[01:42:57.040 --> 01:43:01.640]  We're not going to help them come out because I really do believe that a lot of officers
[01:43:01.640 --> 01:43:05.280]  do want to come out and say, hey, yeah, you know, I've seen this and this is wrong, but
[01:43:05.280 --> 01:43:10.280]  I really think that they do need our support, but we must organize for them to feel safe
[01:43:10.280 --> 01:43:16.320]  enough because we outnumber them as far as people, but not as far as supporters.
[01:43:16.320 --> 01:43:22.480]  There's a lot more cops out there that may have done things wrong and there's not enough
[01:43:22.480 --> 01:43:26.160]  people supporting these other officers that want to come out and say, I did witness this
[01:43:26.160 --> 01:43:30.760]  crime and it was an officer or it was a judge, you know, so hopefully we can do that and
[01:43:30.760 --> 01:43:35.320]  I want to thank you guys for taking my call and I will stay on the line in this if that's
[01:43:35.320 --> 01:43:36.320]  okay with you guys.
[01:43:36.320 --> 01:43:37.320]  Of course.
[01:43:37.320 --> 01:43:38.320]  This has been a great job.
[01:43:38.320 --> 01:43:41.600]  Of course and thank you, Rick, and indeed you're correct.
[01:43:41.600 --> 01:43:45.600]  I mean, we're, according to Randy, we're batting a thousand here.
[01:43:45.600 --> 01:43:51.840]  Anytime he's ever asked a police officer, would they really object to bringing an arrested
[01:43:51.840 --> 01:43:58.280]  person immediately before a magistrate, every one of them has said no and Officer Ben said
[01:43:58.280 --> 01:43:59.280]  no tonight.
[01:43:59.280 --> 01:44:04.280]  And he hemmed and hawed and yeah, he complained and said, well, you know, it would be a pain
[01:44:04.280 --> 01:44:07.960]  because people would, you know, the cops would be off the street and they'd have to deal
[01:44:07.960 --> 01:44:08.960]  with all this.
[01:44:08.960 --> 01:44:13.920]  But when push came to shove, he said no, he really wouldn't have a problem with it.
[01:44:13.920 --> 01:44:18.080]  He just came from the standpoint that he thinks it would be a waste of time because the magistrate
[01:44:18.080 --> 01:44:24.560]  would always take the officer's side and that may or may not be true.
[01:44:24.560 --> 01:44:25.560]  Okay.
[01:44:25.560 --> 01:44:33.840]  But the point is, at least from my point of view, okay, even if the magistrate did take
[01:44:33.840 --> 01:44:42.480]  the officer's side, at that point in time, the arrested person would have the opportunity
[01:44:42.480 --> 01:44:51.720]  to whip some bucks out of his or her pocket or a credit card or something to bail out
[01:44:51.720 --> 01:44:58.600]  and go on with the merry way without being put through the whole booking process.
[01:44:58.600 --> 01:45:03.480]  So even if Officer Ben is correct and the magistrate would always have, would always
[01:45:03.480 --> 01:45:08.560]  take the cop side, let's just assume that, at least the person would not be put through
[01:45:08.560 --> 01:45:13.920]  the booking process first, they would have the opportunity to bail out on the spot right
[01:45:13.920 --> 01:45:14.920]  then and there.
[01:45:14.920 --> 01:45:19.560]  And that's very, very important to me, at least.
[01:45:19.560 --> 01:45:20.560]  Right guys?
[01:45:20.560 --> 01:45:21.560]  Right.
[01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:22.560]  Let's do it.
[01:45:22.560 --> 01:45:27.000]  And just like how that, what's the thing, I forgot who it was, said that they charge
[01:45:27.000 --> 01:45:32.120]  us with crazy crimes and then so we can go ahead and sign off on something that's more
[01:45:32.120 --> 01:45:33.120]  reasonable.
[01:45:33.120 --> 01:45:37.920]  I believe these cops, same way, if they come out and talk about it, guess what?
[01:45:37.920 --> 01:45:41.480]  They have bills, so they're going to probably get fired or get recalculated again.
[01:45:41.480 --> 01:45:43.040]  I'm sure that's what they're scared of.
[01:45:43.040 --> 01:45:47.080]  So they're probably in the same predicament, just in a way.
[01:45:47.080 --> 01:45:48.080]  Absolutely.
[01:45:48.080 --> 01:45:49.080]  All right.
[01:45:49.080 --> 01:45:50.080]  Well, thank you, Rick.
[01:45:50.080 --> 01:45:51.080]  Appreciate it.
[01:45:51.080 --> 01:45:52.080]  Thank you.
[01:45:52.080 --> 01:45:53.080]  Okay.
[01:45:53.080 --> 01:45:58.160]  We are now going to bring on our next caller, who isn't exactly a caller.
[01:45:58.160 --> 01:46:08.800]  He is Aaron, my right-hand man, my assistant producer, producer extraordinaire.
[01:46:08.800 --> 01:46:11.020]  He's been screening calls from me all night long.
[01:46:11.020 --> 01:46:15.560]  He went out to play pool and drink at the bar with his buddies and he came back and
[01:46:15.560 --> 01:46:19.200]  heard us talking and was like, is this an archive, were you guys still in there?
[01:46:19.200 --> 01:46:27.080]  So he had a question for Eddie regarding some kind of a transition, some kind of crossover
[01:46:27.080 --> 01:46:33.560]  of civil and criminal law regarding these cameras, these red light cameras.
[01:46:33.560 --> 01:46:34.560]  Yeah.
[01:46:34.560 --> 01:46:41.760]  Can you, come on, Aaron, I've patched the producer bridge live.
[01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:42.760]  You got me, Deb?
[01:46:42.760 --> 01:46:43.760]  I got you.
[01:46:43.760 --> 01:46:44.760]  All right.
[01:46:44.760 --> 01:46:45.760]  Hi, guys.
[01:46:45.760 --> 01:46:46.760]  How are y'all doing?
[01:46:46.760 --> 01:46:47.760]  Good.
[01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.760]  Can y'all hear Aaron?
[01:46:48.760 --> 01:46:49.760]  Yeah.
[01:46:49.760 --> 01:46:50.760]  Okay.
[01:46:50.760 --> 01:46:51.760]  Go ahead.
[01:46:51.760 --> 01:46:55.800]  Well, my question, the thing that I've been looking into now is specifically the section
[01:46:55.800 --> 01:47:01.080]  of law that says exclusive appellate jurisdiction and what this is, just to catch everybody
[01:47:01.080 --> 01:47:13.360]  up if they're not aware, there's a statute in the Texas Code of Transportation, I can't
[01:47:13.360 --> 01:47:19.120]  even talk tonight, in the transportation code that specifically authorizes the creation
[01:47:19.120 --> 01:47:25.960]  of a municipal statute or ordinance that is a civil violation for violating these red
[01:47:25.960 --> 01:47:34.200]  light cameras and essentially they limit the appeal to the municipal court and they do
[01:47:34.200 --> 01:47:40.240]  this by putting in the law in the code specifically that the municipal court has exclusive appellate
[01:47:40.240 --> 01:47:45.280]  jurisdiction, the term exclusive appellate jurisdiction as far as I can tell only appears
[01:47:45.280 --> 01:47:50.280]  one time in law and it seems to go against some of the founding principles of law and
[01:47:50.280 --> 01:47:54.760]  of our courts that basically everything can go all the way up to the Supreme Court.
[01:47:54.760 --> 01:47:58.320]  Well, here is my question.
[01:47:58.320 --> 01:48:06.400]  I found a right to appeal in Texas law with regard to criminal code, but I have not found
[01:48:06.400 --> 01:48:10.600]  a right to appeal in Texas law with regard to civil code.
[01:48:10.600 --> 01:48:19.040]  So I can't prove that this is unconstitutional or unstatutory I suppose within the body of
[01:48:19.040 --> 01:48:25.280]  law itself because of the fact that this is a civil violation instead of a criminal violation.
[01:48:25.280 --> 01:48:27.240]  So Eddie, can you help me out?
[01:48:27.240 --> 01:48:28.240]  Yeah.
[01:48:28.240 --> 01:48:34.880]  Dr. Graves addresses something very specific to that when it's on the civil side.
[01:48:34.880 --> 01:48:39.440]  You do not have an automatic right to appeal.
[01:48:39.440 --> 01:48:46.360]  An appeal only applies if you can show that there was a violation of the application of
[01:48:46.360 --> 01:48:52.400]  law or the required procedure on behalf of the prosecutor or the judge.
[01:48:52.400 --> 01:48:58.560]  In other words, they disobeyed the rules in a fashion that prejudiced your case.
[01:48:58.560 --> 01:49:04.320]  Then you have the right to appeal and that's on the civil side.
[01:49:04.320 --> 01:49:12.520]  Now on the criminal, that appeal is allowed to go up, but on the civil, that qualification
[01:49:12.520 --> 01:49:16.640]  must exist before the appeal exists.
[01:49:16.640 --> 01:49:20.160]  Now you and I talked about this before.
[01:49:20.160 --> 01:49:24.360]  The difference here on the red light cameras in Texas is that you are being charged under
[01:49:24.360 --> 01:49:30.400]  an ordinance, not state law.
[01:49:30.400 --> 01:49:32.800]  So you've got to figure out...
[01:49:32.800 --> 01:49:34.440]  Eddie?
[01:49:34.440 --> 01:49:38.520]  Eddie, are you there?
[01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:44.280]  Okay, hold on listeners, we're going to get Eddie back.
[01:49:44.280 --> 01:49:50.520]  Yeah, this is my question too, because Eddie, are you there?
[01:49:50.520 --> 01:49:51.520]  Yeah, I'm here.
[01:49:51.520 --> 01:49:52.520]  I don't know what keeps happening.
[01:49:52.520 --> 01:49:53.520]  Okay.
[01:49:53.520 --> 01:49:54.520]  Yeah, it's just Skype.
[01:49:54.520 --> 01:49:55.520]  It's just the Internet.
[01:49:55.520 --> 01:50:03.880]  Okay, you were saying about the municipal being charged under municipal and the civil
[01:50:03.880 --> 01:50:04.880]  and the criminal.
[01:50:04.880 --> 01:50:10.640]  I was wondering about this too, because Aaron was texting me and saying that even though
[01:50:10.640 --> 01:50:16.080]  it's a municipal ordinance and it's civil, Aaron was telling me that it still falls under
[01:50:16.080 --> 01:50:20.280]  the transportation code, which is criminal, and I don't understand that.
[01:50:20.280 --> 01:50:26.440]  Aaron, can you text that link to Eddie?
[01:50:26.440 --> 01:50:33.640]  I don't have his Skype up, but essentially what the statute does at the state level is
[01:50:33.640 --> 01:50:36.680]  it authorizes the creation of a municipal ordinance.
[01:50:36.680 --> 01:50:41.800]  This is just more convolution that they put around this junk, and I'm sure what happened
[01:50:41.800 --> 01:50:48.400]  is ATS, the company that does it here in College Station, came to the Texas legislature with
[01:50:48.400 --> 01:50:52.960]  a bill already written in hand, and they came up with every single thing that they could
[01:50:52.960 --> 01:50:57.280]  pack in this thing to prevent this from being struck down.
[01:50:57.280 --> 01:51:01.320]  They came all ready to go, lobbied them, and the legislature just signed it.
[01:51:01.320 --> 01:51:05.040]  I'm sure that's who wrote it or somebody like that.
[01:51:05.040 --> 01:51:10.720]  They probably spent six months researching this law and finding every possible way that
[01:51:10.720 --> 01:51:14.920]  they could make this not be struck down like it's been struck down in other states.
[01:51:14.920 --> 01:51:20.600]  You've got a Texas set of statutes authorizing it, and then you've got a municipal ordinance
[01:51:20.600 --> 01:51:26.000]  that actually is the law that you're breaking.
[01:51:26.000 --> 01:51:33.120]  When you get the ticket in the mail, it says violation of ordinance, 3,000 whatever.
[01:51:33.120 --> 01:51:36.240]  If you're going to challenge this, I suppose you could challenge it in one of two ways.
[01:51:36.240 --> 01:51:39.560]  You could fight the ticket, you could fight the ordinance, or you could fight the state
[01:51:39.560 --> 01:51:40.560]  law.
[01:51:40.560 --> 01:51:43.560]  Of course, it would be better to beat the state law because then all the ordinances
[01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:47.760]  in the municipalities would be declared invalid because there's no longer an authority to
[01:51:47.760 --> 01:51:48.760]  create them.
[01:51:48.760 --> 01:51:53.480]  Basically, here in College Station, the municipal ordinance is practically word for word an
[01:51:53.480 --> 01:51:57.560]  exact copy of the state law.
[01:51:57.560 --> 01:52:03.640]  It just is a little more empowering, and it says it exists instead of you have the authority
[01:52:03.640 --> 01:52:05.640]  to create it.
[01:52:05.640 --> 01:52:16.280]  Right, but now when you look, this says a person who fails to pay the civil penalty.
[01:52:16.280 --> 01:52:22.520]  How does one become liable for a civil penalty?
[01:52:22.520 --> 01:52:26.400]  I would assume you have a civil judgment against you.
[01:52:26.400 --> 01:52:35.040]  Yeah, there would have to either be a judgment or an enforceable contract which you breached.
[01:52:35.040 --> 01:52:37.920]  That's all that's allowed on the civil side.
[01:52:37.920 --> 01:52:40.120]  Of which neither I have done.
[01:52:40.120 --> 01:52:41.120]  Correct.
[01:52:41.120 --> 01:52:44.320]  Again, we're into the terminology used.
[01:52:44.320 --> 01:52:48.440]  We're talking about a person again.
[01:52:48.440 --> 01:52:57.000]  From what I can see, Chapter 707 does not have, let's see if it does.
[01:52:57.000 --> 01:53:00.040]  And Eddie, I sent you the link that you have to.
[01:53:00.040 --> 01:53:02.400]  Yeah, that's what I've got pulled up.
[01:53:02.400 --> 01:53:03.400]  Okay.
[01:53:03.400 --> 01:53:07.440]  Yeah, the term person is not defined here, so guess what?
[01:53:07.440 --> 01:53:11.520]  Chapter 311 Government Code shall govern the definitions here.
[01:53:11.520 --> 01:53:18.960]  So we're right back to the fictitious person, not the real man, but the fictitious person.
[01:53:18.960 --> 01:53:24.440]  And Officer Ben, if you're listening, yes, there is a difference, and it is not minutiae.
[01:53:24.440 --> 01:53:26.520]  It is a fact.
[01:53:26.520 --> 01:53:32.000]  But the point is that the terminology in all the statutes is very important.
[01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:38.160]  And here it specifically says a person that is liable for a civil penalty.
[01:53:38.160 --> 01:53:42.320]  There aren't but two ways to fall under a civil penalty.
[01:53:42.320 --> 01:53:48.640]  There has to be a civil judgment or there must be a breach of contract.
[01:53:48.640 --> 01:53:52.520]  So again, the only person...
[01:53:52.520 --> 01:53:57.000]  That would be one thing that I would be able to appeal it out of a municipal court on.
[01:53:57.000 --> 01:53:59.200]  Well, at that point...
[01:53:59.200 --> 01:54:02.760]  You'd be able to appeal it out on the application as well.
[01:54:02.760 --> 01:54:08.720]  Okay, but if I can have a judgment against me by the municipal court, then I do have
[01:54:08.720 --> 01:54:14.560]  a civil judgment against me, and I am liable for a civil penalty, correct?
[01:54:14.560 --> 01:54:20.840]  Yeah, provided you were subject of the ordinance to begin with, yes.
[01:54:20.840 --> 01:54:27.280]  If they're applying an ordinance to someone to whom by the very writing of the law it
[01:54:27.280 --> 01:54:30.240]  cannot apply to, that is a fraudulent act.
[01:54:30.240 --> 01:54:31.240]  Right.
[01:54:31.240 --> 01:54:33.840]  I mean, that's just common sense.
[01:54:33.840 --> 01:54:39.040]  If I told you I painted your car red and you went out and looked and it's still yellow,
[01:54:39.040 --> 01:54:43.480]  then I committed fraud in what I told you, especially if I collected money from you to
[01:54:43.480 --> 01:54:48.360]  do the paint job and delivered it back to you exactly the same way you gave it to me,
[01:54:48.360 --> 01:54:54.440]  telling you that I had altered it and hadn't.
[01:54:54.440 --> 01:54:59.720]  We discussed this one day, I think, Aaron, about if a city is actually a corporation,
[01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:06.400]  which we know they are, and a corporation has their corporate rules, this is how the
[01:55:06.400 --> 01:55:13.560]  corporation functions, who is subject to the corporate rules?
[01:55:13.560 --> 01:55:16.200]  The employees of the corporation.
[01:55:16.200 --> 01:55:17.640]  Exactly.
[01:55:17.640 --> 01:55:22.640]  It is not the people that work down the street at a different company and a different corporation
[01:55:22.640 --> 01:55:24.680]  that's got nothing to do with this one.
[01:55:24.680 --> 01:55:29.720]  It is the people that are specifically employed by that corporation that is governed by that
[01:55:29.720 --> 01:55:33.960]  corporation's rules.
[01:55:33.960 --> 01:55:39.160]  In this case, when they are using the term person, and that term person is drawn from
[01:55:39.160 --> 01:55:44.080]  chapter 311, then what is one of the things there?
[01:55:44.080 --> 01:55:48.600]  Governmental entity.
[01:55:48.600 --> 01:55:56.440]  Any employee of a governmental entity falls under the subject of an ordinance, because
[01:55:56.440 --> 01:56:03.840]  they are an employee of that political subdivision, a government entity.
[01:56:03.840 --> 01:56:05.700]  That again is not minutiae.
[01:56:05.700 --> 01:56:14.760]  That is just a simple logical conclusion to the application of the writing of the law.
[01:56:14.760 --> 01:56:15.840]  That all makes sense to me.
[01:56:15.840 --> 01:56:20.840]  What I've been doing is I've been trying to go through this specific piece of law and
[01:56:20.840 --> 01:56:25.880]  take it apart a little bit at a time and find all the holes in it.
[01:56:25.880 --> 01:56:31.120]  That's a hole that's applicable to a whole mass of law.
[01:56:31.120 --> 01:56:32.120]  I like it.
[01:56:32.120 --> 01:56:33.120]  All of them.
[01:56:33.120 --> 01:56:34.120]  You're right.
[01:56:34.120 --> 01:56:35.360]  I like it.
[01:56:35.360 --> 01:56:38.720]  I'm just trying to pick apart this one in every place that I can.
[01:56:38.720 --> 01:56:40.760]  I wasn't sure about that appeal.
[01:56:40.760 --> 01:56:49.360]  Fortunately, it looks like the phrase, exclusive appellate jurisdiction, is not against the
[01:56:49.360 --> 01:56:50.360]  rules.
[01:56:50.360 --> 01:56:51.360]  Right.
[01:56:51.360 --> 01:56:52.360]  However...
[01:56:52.360 --> 01:56:55.360]  It's not against their employees.
[01:56:55.360 --> 01:56:56.360]  It's not.
[01:56:56.360 --> 01:56:57.360]  Right.
[01:56:57.360 --> 01:56:58.360]  There's a problem with that.
[01:56:58.360 --> 01:56:59.360]  Okay.
[01:56:59.360 --> 01:57:00.360]  Go ahead.
[01:57:00.360 --> 01:57:06.080]  How could you tell if it's unconstitutional?
[01:57:06.080 --> 01:57:13.480]  A municipal court can be a non-attorney.
[01:57:13.480 --> 01:57:25.560]  If the municipal court, having exclusive appellate jurisdiction, rules in violation of constitution,
[01:57:25.560 --> 01:57:32.960]  how would you get or say this statute is totally unconstitutional, but the municipal courts
[01:57:32.960 --> 01:57:40.560]  are obviously ignorant of the fact, how would you ever get such an unconstitutional statute
[01:57:40.560 --> 01:57:45.680]  overturned if you can't appeal it to a court of competent jurisdiction?
[01:57:45.680 --> 01:57:47.120]  Exactly.
[01:57:47.120 --> 01:57:50.480]  That would be where the citizen differentiates from the person.
[01:57:50.480 --> 01:57:52.960]  The person wouldn't have that ability.
[01:57:52.960 --> 01:57:55.160]  The citizen always does.
[01:57:55.160 --> 01:57:57.640]  It's a matter of right.
[01:57:57.640 --> 01:58:00.160]  Here's something to clarify this for you, Aaron.
[01:58:00.160 --> 01:58:05.240]  Section 707.002, authority to provide for civil penalty.
[01:58:05.240 --> 01:58:10.040]  The governing body of a local authority... Well, what does local authority mean?
[01:58:10.040 --> 01:58:17.160]  If you go up to 001, local authority has the meaning assigned by section 541.002, which
[01:58:17.160 --> 01:58:26.320]  states local authority means a county, municipality, or other local entity authorized to enact
[01:58:26.320 --> 01:58:33.160]  traffic laws under the laws of this state.
[01:58:33.160 --> 01:58:34.160]  What is traffic?
[01:58:34.160 --> 01:58:35.720]  We've already looked it up.
[01:58:35.720 --> 01:58:41.880]  It is commerce.
[01:58:41.880 --> 01:58:47.800]  So now, by-ordinates may implement a photographic traffic signal.
[01:58:47.800 --> 01:58:53.480]  Now, Randy, does this make sense to you that if you are unable to enact a traffic law under
[01:58:53.480 --> 01:59:00.720]  the laws of this state, is a law and an ordinance the same thing?
[01:59:00.720 --> 01:59:03.800]  Well, yes.
[01:59:03.800 --> 01:59:10.840]  It's a law with limited... Local application, right.
[01:59:10.840 --> 01:59:16.560]  Specific local application.
[01:59:16.560 --> 01:59:23.680]  Or traffic photographic traffic signal enforcement.
[01:59:23.680 --> 01:59:30.440]  And 541.304 is where that definition resides.
[01:59:30.440 --> 01:59:37.160]  So let's see if we can get there from here.
[01:59:37.160 --> 01:59:42.760]  Traffic control signal means a manual electric or mechanical device that alternately directs
[01:59:42.760 --> 01:59:51.840]  traffic to stop and to proceed.
[01:59:51.840 --> 01:59:57.800]  So again, we're going to see, as specified, let's see, the vehicle is operated in violation
[01:59:57.800 --> 02:00:06.160]  of instructions of that traffic control signal as specified by section 544.007.
[02:00:06.160 --> 02:00:12.120]  Let's pull that one up.
[02:00:12.120 --> 02:00:13.120]  007.007.
[02:00:13.120 --> 02:00:22.480]  All right, traffic control signals in general.
[02:00:22.480 --> 02:00:28.400]  A traffic control signal displaying different colored lights or colored lighted arrows successfully
[02:00:28.400 --> 02:00:33.840]  or in any combination may display only green, yellow, or red and applies to operators of
[02:00:33.840 --> 02:00:37.840]  vehicles as provided by this section.
[02:00:37.840 --> 02:00:44.680]  Again, specific words with specific meanings and that's intentional.
[02:00:44.680 --> 02:00:50.520]  And it all deals, once again, with operating and operating and operating.
[02:00:50.520 --> 02:00:56.400]  I mean, it's just like what I wanted to ask Officer Ben when he was on.
[02:00:56.400 --> 02:01:01.240]  Does he understand that in Texas traffic laws there are transportation code?
[02:01:01.240 --> 02:01:03.800]  There are only two types of licenses.
[02:01:03.800 --> 02:01:05.760]  No more, no less.
[02:01:05.760 --> 02:01:07.920]  There are only two.
[02:01:07.920 --> 02:01:12.720]  Is he aware both of them are only for commercial purposes?
[02:01:12.720 --> 02:01:18.400]  The only difference being the weight capacity of the commercial vehicle you're allowed to
[02:01:18.400 --> 02:01:21.880]  operate with that license.
[02:01:21.880 --> 02:01:25.440]  That's the only difference.
[02:01:25.440 --> 02:01:35.680]  So you can't look at these things as separate entities because they all tie themselves together.
[02:01:35.680 --> 02:01:38.120]  It's like insurance without a driver's license.
[02:01:38.120 --> 02:01:40.960]  It's like insurance without registration.
[02:01:40.960 --> 02:01:52.720]  They cannot stand alone because they require some part of each other in order to be functional.
[02:01:52.720 --> 02:02:01.080]  Impera Materia.
[02:02:01.080 --> 02:02:13.880]  So I mean, let's see, now in subtitle, let's see, what subtitle are we in here?
[02:02:13.880 --> 02:02:21.640]  Subtitle C, Rules of the Road 541, something I was just looking at.
[02:02:21.640 --> 02:02:33.880]  Now in section 541, or subtitle 541, which, yeah, subtitle C. Now this is what they stuck
[02:02:33.880 --> 02:02:35.840]  for the definition of traffic.
[02:02:35.840 --> 02:02:44.280]  In this subtitle, traffic means pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, and conveyances
[02:02:44.280 --> 02:02:49.760]  including vehicles and street cars, singly or together, while using a highway for the
[02:02:49.760 --> 02:02:51.760]  purpose of travel.
[02:02:51.760 --> 02:02:53.760]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[02:02:53.760 --> 02:02:55.640]  Say that again, Eddie.
[02:02:55.640 --> 02:02:57.200]  Pedestrians what now?
[02:02:57.200 --> 02:02:58.200]  Yes.
[02:02:58.200 --> 02:03:06.080]  In this subtitle, traffic means pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, and conveyances
[02:03:06.080 --> 02:03:12.640]  including vehicles and street cars, singly or together, while using a highway for the
[02:03:12.640 --> 02:03:16.200]  purposes of travel.
[02:03:16.200 --> 02:03:23.320]  Now notice, for the first time, you've come across the word travel versus transportation.
[02:03:23.320 --> 02:03:24.920]  Right.
[02:03:24.920 --> 02:03:26.600]  Okay.
[02:03:26.600 --> 02:03:31.680]  Highway or street means the width between the boundary lines of a publicly maintained
[02:03:31.680 --> 02:03:36.400]  way, any part of which is open to the public for vehicular travel.
[02:03:36.400 --> 02:03:39.400]  Again, more in travel.
[02:03:39.400 --> 02:03:40.400]  Exactly.
[02:03:40.400 --> 02:03:45.440]  This goes all the way back to those Supreme Court cases that we've already validated that
[02:03:45.440 --> 02:03:53.360]  say no ifs, no ands, no buts, the public has a right to the use of the road for the purpose
[02:03:53.360 --> 02:03:57.000]  of vehicular travel.
[02:03:57.000 --> 02:03:58.560]  It is a right.
[02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:02.240]  If they're public roads.
[02:04:02.240 --> 02:04:03.240]  Not a privilege.
[02:04:03.240 --> 02:04:04.240]  Correct.
[02:04:04.240 --> 02:04:05.240]  Not a privilege.
[02:04:05.240 --> 02:04:06.760]  It is a right.
[02:04:06.760 --> 02:04:08.160]  If they're public roads.
[02:04:08.160 --> 02:04:09.160]  Right?
[02:04:09.160 --> 02:04:10.160]  Yeah.
[02:04:10.160 --> 02:04:13.000]  You can only, you only have a right to go on public property.
[02:04:13.000 --> 02:04:14.000]  Yeah.
[02:04:14.000 --> 02:04:16.720]  You don't have a right to go on private.
[02:04:16.720 --> 02:04:23.880]  But any, any state maintained road that is publicly accessible is a public road, according
[02:04:23.880 --> 02:04:27.080]  to the Supreme Court.
[02:04:27.080 --> 02:04:35.560]  Yeah, state or municipality, any governmental agency maintains it.
[02:04:35.560 --> 02:04:36.560]  Right.
[02:04:36.560 --> 02:04:42.560]  Now, when, and in the cases we've read where it says that the state has the right to reasonable
[02:04:42.560 --> 02:04:45.400]  regulation.
[02:04:45.400 --> 02:04:48.280]  Reasonable does not include licensure.
[02:04:48.280 --> 02:04:49.280]  Okay.
[02:04:49.280 --> 02:04:50.280]  Why?
[02:04:50.280 --> 02:04:54.000]  Because a license is a privilege.
[02:04:54.000 --> 02:05:00.120]  And in order to acquire the privilege, they require the surrendering of a right.
[02:05:00.120 --> 02:05:03.520]  And you can't be made to do that either.
[02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:10.720]  No one is going to trade something of unlimited value for something of greatly limited value
[02:05:10.720 --> 02:05:13.320]  in its place.
[02:05:13.320 --> 02:05:20.320]  Especially when that limited value item can be revoked on a whim and the other cannot.
[02:05:20.320 --> 02:05:22.320]  Right.
[02:05:22.320 --> 02:05:24.000]  We have one more caller.
[02:05:24.000 --> 02:05:27.120]  Aaron, did we answer your question?
[02:05:27.120 --> 02:05:28.920]  Yeah, you did.
[02:05:28.920 --> 02:05:29.920]  Okay.
[02:05:29.920 --> 02:05:30.920]  I appreciate it.
[02:05:30.920 --> 02:05:31.920]  Okay.
[02:05:31.920 --> 02:05:32.920]  Thank you, Eddie.
[02:05:32.920 --> 02:05:33.920]  Yeah.
[02:05:33.920 --> 02:05:34.920]  All right.
[02:05:34.920 --> 02:05:35.920]  That was Aaron.
[02:05:35.920 --> 02:05:40.080]  My right-hand man, a producer man, helps out so much I can't even express.
[02:05:40.080 --> 02:05:42.160]  I can't do this without him.
[02:05:42.160 --> 02:05:43.160]  Okay.
[02:05:43.160 --> 02:05:44.160]  Last caller.
[02:05:44.160 --> 02:05:45.160]  Scott from Connecticut.
[02:05:45.160 --> 02:05:46.160]  Scott.
[02:05:46.160 --> 02:05:47.160]  Hello.
[02:05:47.160 --> 02:05:48.160]  All right.
[02:05:48.160 --> 02:05:49.160]  You're following up here.
[02:05:49.160 --> 02:05:50.160]  I'm all done.
[02:05:50.160 --> 02:05:51.160]  I was listening in.
[02:05:51.160 --> 02:05:52.160]  What?
[02:05:52.160 --> 02:05:53.160]  Do you have a comment?
[02:05:53.160 --> 02:05:54.160]  Come on.
[02:05:54.160 --> 02:05:55.160]  Give us something.
[02:05:55.160 --> 02:06:00.160]  Well, during that last call, the voice of your pool player there, what was his name?
[02:06:00.160 --> 02:06:11.200]  Well, during that last call, the voice of your pool player there wasn't coming through.
[02:06:11.200 --> 02:06:13.200]  Oh, you couldn't hear him?
[02:06:13.200 --> 02:06:14.200]  Oh, no.
[02:06:14.200 --> 02:06:18.240]  Well, I don't know if it was any good or not, but I don't know.
[02:06:18.240 --> 02:06:21.200]  I think maybe like on your archive or whatever, you may not get that voice.
[02:06:21.200 --> 02:06:22.200]  Oh, yeah.
[02:06:22.200 --> 02:06:23.200]  It'll be on the archive.
[02:06:23.200 --> 02:06:24.200]  You know what?
[02:06:24.200 --> 02:06:25.200]  I'm sorry.
[02:06:25.200 --> 02:06:26.200]  I'm sorry.
[02:06:26.200 --> 02:06:27.200]  I was doing something new.
[02:06:27.200 --> 02:06:28.200]  He's my producer.
[02:06:28.200 --> 02:06:34.880]  That's a producer bridge, which is normally not patched to the caller board, and I'm sorry
[02:06:34.880 --> 02:06:35.880]  about that.
[02:06:35.880 --> 02:06:36.880]  Oh, that's all right.
[02:06:36.880 --> 02:06:39.480]  You can go back and hear it on the archive, though.
[02:06:39.480 --> 02:06:42.560]  What an excellent session tonight.
[02:06:42.560 --> 02:06:43.560]  Thank you.
[02:06:43.560 --> 02:06:44.560]  Excellent.
[02:06:44.560 --> 02:06:48.200]  Why, if everybody thinks so.
[02:06:48.200 --> 02:06:51.920]  I hope I wasn't too unruly, everybody.
[02:06:51.920 --> 02:06:54.200]  You were, but we're used to it.
[02:06:54.200 --> 02:06:58.480]  Do you have any questions for Eddie or us, Scott?
[02:06:58.480 --> 02:06:59.480]  Not tonight.
[02:06:59.480 --> 02:07:00.480]  All right.
[02:07:00.480 --> 02:07:06.240]  Well, thank you for tuning in, and thanks, Eddie, and Randy, and Scott.
[02:07:06.240 --> 02:07:14.120]  I'm sorry I failed to patch the producer bridge into the caller bridge, but you can go back
[02:07:14.120 --> 02:07:16.320]  and hear it on the archive if you like.
[02:07:16.320 --> 02:07:17.320]  Okay.
[02:07:17.320 --> 02:07:18.320]  Okay.
[02:07:18.320 --> 02:07:19.320]  Good night, all.
[02:07:19.320 --> 02:07:20.320]  All right.
[02:07:20.320 --> 02:07:21.320]  All right, Deborah.
[02:07:21.320 --> 02:07:22.320]  All right.
[02:07:22.320 --> 02:07:23.320]  We'll be back.
[02:07:23.320 --> 02:07:25.680]  We'll be back Monday night.