ROL_2009-03-30_16k.timecode

[00:00.000 --> 00:10.280]  In Northwest Pakistan, a suicide bomber killed up to 70 people at a mosque.
[00:10.280 --> 00:16.960]  The Obama administration plans to triple non-military aid to Pakistan to $1.5 billion a year for
[00:16.960 --> 00:19.000]  five years.
[00:19.000 --> 00:23.520]  A legal battle being waged by Palestinian families to stop the takeover of their neighborhood
[00:23.520 --> 00:29.320]  in East Jerusalem by Jewish settlers has received a major filip from the recent souring of
[00:29.320 --> 00:31.840]  relations between Israel and Turkey.
[00:31.840 --> 00:36.680]  After Israel's assault on Gaza, lawyers for the families were given access to Ottoman
[00:36.680 --> 00:42.960]  land registry archives in Ankara for the first time, providing proof that title deeds produced
[00:42.960 --> 00:44.960]  by the settlers are forged.
[00:44.960 --> 00:56.880]  A landmark UN report warns the world's water supplies are being threatened by population
[00:56.880 --> 01:02.080]  growth, climate change, reckless irrigation and chronic waste.
[01:02.080 --> 01:07.440]  The World Water Development Report published Thursday said, water is linked to the crises
[01:07.440 --> 01:13.960]  of climate change, energy and food supplies and prices and troubled financial markets.
[01:13.960 --> 01:18.320]  Population growth, especially in cities in poor countries, is driving explosive demand
[01:18.320 --> 01:24.120]  for water, prompting rivers in thirsty countries to be tapped for nearly every drop and driving
[01:24.120 --> 01:27.720]  governments to pump out so-called fossil water.
[01:27.720 --> 01:32.640]  These are aquifers hundreds of thousands of years old whose extraction is not being replenished
[01:32.640 --> 01:34.200]  by rainfall.
[01:34.200 --> 01:40.360]  Mining them for water today means depriving future generations of liquid treasure.
[01:40.360 --> 01:46.680]  Fueling this is misuse or abuse of water through pollution, unbridled irrigation, pipe leakage
[01:46.680 --> 01:50.120]  and growing water-craving crops in deserts.
[01:50.120 --> 01:56.160]  In addition, shifts in weather systems unleashed by man-made global warming will alter rainfall
[01:56.160 --> 02:01.600]  patterns and reduce snow melt.
[02:01.600 --> 02:07.080]  Critics say proposals to implement a new world reserve currency system to replace the dollar
[02:07.080 --> 02:11.440]  are part of plans to create a global financial dictatorship.
[02:11.440 --> 02:16.320]  This week Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told the Council on Foreign Relations he was
[02:16.320 --> 02:19.000]  open to the idea of a new currency.
[02:19.000 --> 02:24.160]  Geithner initially renounced Russian and Chinese proposals to supplant the dollar.
[02:24.160 --> 02:28.520]  Later he backtracked, saying he would do all he could to defend the dollar.
[02:28.520 --> 02:32.400]  While Geithner was still president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, he argued
[02:32.400 --> 02:35.480]  for a new global central banking system.
[02:35.480 --> 02:40.160]  Reports indicate a new reserve currency will be a major point of discussion at the upcoming
[02:40.160 --> 02:41.920]  G20 conference.
[02:41.920 --> 02:46.960]  A UN panel of economists pressed Thursday for a new global currency, saying it could
[02:46.960 --> 02:51.040]  contribute to global stability and economic strength.
[02:51.040 --> 02:56.480]  Critics warn a new global currency is a key step towards establishing global government
[02:56.480 --> 03:16.680]  with power concentrated in fewer hands.
[03:16.680 --> 03:20.800]  The forum will be sponsored by Councilmember Randy Shade and will allow you, the people
[03:20.800 --> 03:25.040]  of Austin, the opportunity to express your opinion regarding whether or not you believe
[03:25.040 --> 03:29.080]  the city should take federal funds in order to train Austin police officers to withdraw
[03:29.080 --> 03:30.080]  blood.
[03:30.080 --> 03:34.080]  The panelists will include Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo, Mad State Executive Director
[03:34.080 --> 03:39.280]  Karen Housewright, City Councilmember Mike Martinez, ACLU Chapter President Debbie Russell,
[03:39.280 --> 03:42.320]  and Texans for Accountable Government Executive Director John Bush.
[03:42.320 --> 03:46.960]  The forum will be moderated by local Austin TV host David Koporowski and open for questions
[03:46.960 --> 03:47.960]  from the public.
[03:47.960 --> 03:50.240]  Be there early as attendance is expected to be high.
[03:50.240 --> 03:53.200]  For more information, please visit tagtexas.org.
[03:53.200 --> 03:56.040]  Be there Monday, March 30th at 6 p.m. in Austin City Hall.
[03:56.040 --> 03:58.760]  This is our time to speak up and be heard.
[03:58.760 --> 04:07.200]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com.
[04:07.200 --> 04:14.200]  And Free Speech Talk Radio at its best.
[04:37.200 --> 04:51.160]  All right.
[04:51.160 --> 04:52.160]  We are live.
[04:52.160 --> 04:59.040]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens.
[04:59.040 --> 05:05.240]  We are coming to you live tonight from Austin City Hall.
[05:05.240 --> 05:12.400]  We're here for the public hearing on the fact of Police Chief Art Acevedo wanting us, wanting
[05:12.400 --> 05:15.200]  to be able to stick needles in our arms on the side of the road.
[05:15.200 --> 05:16.360]  We've got Nancy Robbins here.
[05:16.360 --> 05:17.840]  Nancy, thank you for joining us tonight.
[05:17.840 --> 05:19.200]  Well, thank you for having me.
[05:19.200 --> 05:21.960]  I like the music coming in that's appropriate.
[05:21.960 --> 05:22.960]  Yeah, exactly.
[05:22.960 --> 05:24.760]  Bad boys, bad boys.
[05:24.760 --> 05:28.640]  And apparently there's an issue at stake here.
[05:28.640 --> 05:33.160]  There's no way to sign up that we've been able to see to be a speaker, to go up to the
[05:33.160 --> 05:34.720]  podium and ask questions.
[05:34.720 --> 05:40.000]  I've heard they're going to be doing some kind of Q&A, but it's looking to me like they
[05:40.000 --> 05:41.880]  don't really want our input that much.
[05:41.880 --> 05:43.880]  They're just going to tell us the way it is.
[05:43.880 --> 05:46.520]  Randy or Nancy, what's going on here?
[05:46.520 --> 05:48.680]  Can people get up on the mic or what's going on?
[05:48.680 --> 05:53.040]  Well, there are five questions that we have already for the panelists, but we are going
[05:53.040 --> 05:55.240]  to open up to questions from the floor.
[05:55.240 --> 05:59.840]  There are supposed to be some cards at the table where you can, if you don't want to
[05:59.840 --> 06:03.320]  say your question yourself, you can fill out a card and we'll give it to the moderator,
[06:03.320 --> 06:06.040]  but they will be open to the floor for people in the open space.
[06:06.040 --> 06:07.040]  Okay.
[06:07.040 --> 06:08.040]  Excellent.
[06:08.040 --> 06:09.040]  Do we have to sign up?
[06:09.040 --> 06:10.040]  Not that I'm aware of.
[06:10.040 --> 06:11.040]  Okay.
[06:11.040 --> 06:12.040]  So you just kind of get in line and go up to the mic.
[06:12.040 --> 06:13.040]  Sounds like it.
[06:13.040 --> 06:14.040]  Okay.
[06:14.040 --> 06:15.040]  Good.
[06:15.040 --> 06:16.040]  Good.
[06:16.040 --> 06:17.040]  Okay.
[06:17.040 --> 06:18.040]  Randy, what's been going on with you?
[06:18.040 --> 06:19.040]  You've been trying to work over the police chief over this already or what?
[06:19.040 --> 06:23.080]  Yeah, I was kind of working over the chief of police.
[06:23.080 --> 06:26.600]  I asked him, why do you need to bother with the blood draw?
[06:26.600 --> 06:33.440]  He said, well, we need the evidence in order to be able to take these to court.
[06:33.440 --> 06:35.440]  I said, wait a minute.
[06:35.440 --> 06:36.440]  What's your conviction rate?
[06:36.440 --> 06:37.440]  Yeah, no kidding.
[06:37.440 --> 06:38.440]  All right.
[06:38.440 --> 06:39.440]  He said, well, I'm not really sure.
[06:39.440 --> 06:40.440]  Well, let me give you a guess.
[06:40.440 --> 06:41.440]  How about 99.6?
[06:41.440 --> 06:51.440]  Oh, well, I don't think it's quite that high and then he got his statistician, he had him
[06:51.440 --> 06:57.160]  ask him, what is the conviction rate in the city of Austin?
[06:57.160 --> 07:02.200]  Well, I think it's about 99%.
[07:02.200 --> 07:07.280]  So why do we need all this taking the blood when everybody takes a deal anyway?
[07:07.280 --> 07:11.240]  Well, I think there's other things going on here.
[07:11.240 --> 07:18.240]  The public forum is about not about stopping the conviction rate or getting, stopping the
[07:18.240 --> 07:20.360]  whole movement to get drunk drivers off the road.
[07:20.360 --> 07:24.640]  It's about the fact that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is giving a
[07:24.640 --> 07:28.760]  grant to the city of Austin in order to train police officers to do that.
[07:28.760 --> 07:35.680]  And in return, all of that information, the DNA collection goes into the national database.
[07:35.680 --> 07:40.000]  I just asked the chief about that and he didn't know a thing about it.
[07:40.000 --> 07:44.440]  Well, this is the same police chief that told us that there's no fusion center in Austin.
[07:44.440 --> 07:45.440]  Okay, listen, they're starting.
[07:45.440 --> 07:46.440]  They're starting.
[07:46.440 --> 07:47.440]  Hold on.
[07:47.440 --> 07:48.440]  First, thank you.
[07:48.440 --> 07:49.440]  Thanks, Randy.
[07:49.440 --> 07:50.440]  It is Katie Rue.
[07:50.440 --> 07:51.440]  Katie Rue are talking right now.
[07:51.440 --> 07:52.440]  I'd like to thank all of our panelists.
[07:52.440 --> 07:53.440]  Some of them.
[07:53.440 --> 07:54.440]  We're trading right now.
[07:54.440 --> 08:01.040]  So thank you for coming because without you coming, we couldn't have done the forum.
[08:01.040 --> 08:02.760]  We really appreciate it.
[08:02.760 --> 08:08.200]  And most of all, I really want to say thanks to the people of Austin for showing up today
[08:08.200 --> 08:13.640]  because we could get this forum together, but if no one shows up, it means nothing.
[08:13.640 --> 08:18.760]  Just to let you know about TAG, Texans for Accountable Government, our mission statement
[08:18.760 --> 08:24.160]  is to advance the cause of liberty by nonpartisan local activism.
[08:24.160 --> 08:25.160]  Okay.
[08:25.160 --> 08:29.000]  We're going to mute our mics here and join up on the tape and the audio that's going
[08:29.000 --> 08:32.280]  on with you and let you know what kinds of things we have going on in the city.
[08:32.280 --> 08:34.400]  Unless you have any other work, Nancy?
[08:34.400 --> 08:39.560]  Well, if you'd like to check out TAGTexas.org, there is a document there that you can download
[08:39.560 --> 08:44.480]  that talks about all of these things that you're doing for the December 1st and that's
[08:44.480 --> 08:45.480]  TAGTexas.org.
[08:45.480 --> 08:46.480]  All right.
[08:46.480 --> 08:47.480]  TAGTexas.org.
[08:47.480 --> 08:51.760]  That's Texas for Accountable Government's website.
[08:51.760 --> 08:52.760]  Texas for Accountable Government.
[08:52.760 --> 08:54.040]  They're responsible for putting this on.
[08:54.040 --> 08:55.040]  We want to thank them.
[08:55.040 --> 08:56.040]  All right.
[08:56.040 --> 08:57.040]  Okay.
[08:57.040 --> 08:58.040]  Here we go.
[08:58.040 --> 08:59.040]  We're going to bring you all live.
[08:59.040 --> 09:00.280]  Before I can validate on the way in, please feel free to get validated on the way out
[09:00.280 --> 09:02.560]  if you're parked in the city facilities here.
[09:02.560 --> 09:07.360]  And I just want to ask everybody to please, you know, comport themselves with civility
[09:07.360 --> 09:08.360]  and respect.
[09:08.360 --> 09:11.840]  Even though we might disagree on something, you know, let's recognize we're all human
[09:11.840 --> 09:12.840]  beings.
[09:12.840 --> 09:13.840]  This isn't us versus them.
[09:13.840 --> 09:17.400]  It's just a bunch of people trying to engage in a dialogue.
[09:17.400 --> 09:26.880]  And with that, I'd like to introduce Dave Kowarowski, who's going to be our moderator.
[09:26.880 --> 09:29.880]  And so, Dave, take it away.
[09:29.880 --> 09:39.320]  Again, this is a controversial topic, everybody, so we're fortunate to be able to have the
[09:39.320 --> 09:43.000]  topic here in the Court of Public Opinion right here in our city chambers.
[09:43.000 --> 09:48.720]  I want to thank all of our participants again, the Chief of Police, everyone on the panel,
[09:48.720 --> 09:52.720]  Councilperson Michael Martinez, Debbie Russell, Karen, John Butch, the whole group.
[09:52.720 --> 09:54.200]  We appreciate you all coming out today.
[09:54.200 --> 09:58.040]  We want to debate this vigorously but not divisively.
[09:58.040 --> 09:59.040]  That's the idea.
[09:59.040 --> 10:04.480]  There is, again, productive, fair, and beneficial forum is the goal today.
[10:04.480 --> 10:08.160]  We want to really elevate the key elements of this issue is what we want to do and frame
[10:08.160 --> 10:09.160]  those issues accordingly.
[10:09.160 --> 10:10.800]  I want to hear from all sides today.
[10:10.800 --> 10:14.200]  This is about the people's business, guys, as we're going to get done today here.
[10:14.200 --> 10:16.600]  And we want you all to be part of the process.
[10:16.600 --> 10:19.200]  And speaking of the process, this is the way it's going to work.
[10:19.200 --> 10:22.240]  We've got about five or six questions that have been planned ahead of time.
[10:22.240 --> 10:24.840]  We're going to first ask our panel.
[10:24.840 --> 10:27.120]  Then from there, we're going to be alternating.
[10:27.120 --> 10:31.320]  We're going to have one question from the audience on a cue card, and Katie is going
[10:31.320 --> 10:32.320]  to help me with those questions.
[10:32.320 --> 10:33.320]  She'll be handing them to me.
[10:33.320 --> 10:34.320]  I'll be reading them.
[10:34.320 --> 10:36.720]  Then we'll have one from either microphone.
[10:36.720 --> 10:40.600]  So as we get closer toward the middle of this event, you're welcome to line up on either
[10:40.600 --> 10:41.600]  side.
[10:41.600 --> 10:44.600]  And you're going to use one of these two podiums here to ask your questions.
[10:44.600 --> 10:49.040]  So again, we'll have five questions first that are already pre-planned, five or six
[10:49.040 --> 10:50.040]  questions that are pre-planned questions.
[10:50.040 --> 10:54.080]  Then we'll be alternating, cue card question, and then an audience question.
[10:54.080 --> 10:56.360]  Cue card question, audience question, just like that.
[10:56.360 --> 11:00.040]  We'll go to 8 o'clock p.m., and then we'll wrap it up.
[11:00.040 --> 11:02.760]  And we ask that your questions please try to keep them concise.
[11:02.760 --> 11:04.800]  We've got a huge audience, obviously.
[11:04.800 --> 11:07.760]  Try to please minimize the editorials and opinions.
[11:07.760 --> 11:08.760]  Everyone has a lot to say.
[11:08.760 --> 11:11.320]  We want to be able to challenge our panel.
[11:11.320 --> 11:12.320]  That's the idea here today.
[11:12.320 --> 11:16.040]  So I'm going to be a little bit of a tough love on that and try to keep you focused on
[11:16.040 --> 11:17.040]  the question.
[11:17.040 --> 11:20.040]  If you go longer than 30 seconds or a minute, I'm going to please, just to be fair to everyone,
[11:20.040 --> 11:21.040]  is that cool for everyone?
[11:21.040 --> 11:22.040]  We'll never get through this.
[11:22.040 --> 11:23.040]  So that's the idea.
[11:23.040 --> 11:28.040]  Unless anyone has any specific questions that are really critical, I'm going to get started.
[11:28.040 --> 11:31.040]  We only got until 8 o'clock to do this.
[11:31.040 --> 11:32.040]  Okay.
[11:32.040 --> 11:33.040]  So...
[11:33.040 --> 11:34.040]  Can I interrupt first?
[11:34.040 --> 11:35.040]  Yeah.
[11:35.040 --> 11:36.600]  I just want to take a moment of personal privilege.
[11:36.600 --> 11:41.280]  I think Councilmember Laura Morrison is in the audience and she's going to attend briefly.
[11:41.280 --> 11:43.400]  Councilmember Morrison, are you still here?
[11:43.400 --> 11:46.800]  I want to thank her for showing up.
[11:46.800 --> 11:54.400]  We also have our police monitor, Cliff Brown, who's also in the audience.
[11:54.400 --> 12:01.040]  I want to thank him for being here as well.
[12:01.040 --> 12:05.120]  I apologize for the voice, folks, but I'm going to make it through the night, I promise.
[12:05.120 --> 12:09.400]  We have Dr. Nelson Linder, from the NAACP, is also here joining us this evening.
[12:09.400 --> 12:14.400]  I want to thank him for being here.
[12:14.400 --> 12:15.400]  Thanks, David.
[12:15.400 --> 12:16.400]  Thank you, Mike.
[12:16.400 --> 12:19.680]  And I think what we'll do, too, is we'll spend a few minutes on introductions first to make
[12:19.680 --> 12:21.240]  sure everyone knows who our panel is.
[12:21.240 --> 12:22.240]  We'll start with the Chief of Police.
[12:22.240 --> 12:23.240]  We'll go down to Debbie.
[12:23.240 --> 12:26.760]  If you guys can keep your introductions within a minute or so, that'd be great.
[12:26.760 --> 12:27.760]  Chief?
[12:27.760 --> 12:28.760]  Hi, I'm David Carter.
[12:28.760 --> 12:31.760]  I already feel I can be here this evening.
[12:31.760 --> 12:35.960]  I'm already the Chief of Police, and I want to thank you all for being here, and thank
[12:35.960 --> 12:39.960]  you for coming out and weighing in on this issue, and, David, for you, thank you for
[12:39.960 --> 12:40.960]  your leadership.
[12:40.960 --> 12:45.160]  And, Council Member Martinez, thanks for showing up, even though you're obviously probably
[12:45.160 --> 12:48.160]  should be in bed, but thanks for being here.
[12:48.160 --> 12:51.040]  Yeah, I just want to thank everybody for showing up.
[12:51.040 --> 12:55.840]  Again, thank you to Chief Debbie, Karen Housewright, and Mike Martinez for taking part in this
[12:55.840 --> 12:56.840]  public discussion.
[12:56.840 --> 13:02.800]  I think that this type of debate and open forum is crucial if we are to have a successful
[13:02.800 --> 13:05.840]  democratic republic here in the United States and the city of Austin.
[13:05.840 --> 13:09.960]  I want to start by making our position clear as Texans for Accountable Government.
[13:09.960 --> 13:14.040]  We do feel that there is a very severe drinking and driving problem here in the state of Texas,
[13:14.040 --> 13:18.200]  especially the city of Austin, having the University of Texas and Sixth Street.
[13:18.200 --> 13:23.320]  We do, however, feel that the solution that the Chief of Police is proposing is both impractical
[13:23.320 --> 13:25.520]  and of questionable constitutionality.
[13:25.520 --> 13:29.240]  So we feel that we should move forward with this point rather than taking a cue from the
[13:29.240 --> 13:30.240]  federal government.
[13:30.240 --> 13:34.320]  We feel that we, as Austin residents, should come together and fully discuss this and come
[13:34.320 --> 13:37.600]  up with a solution that's not only effective, but constitutional.
[13:37.600 --> 13:38.600]  Thank you.
[13:38.600 --> 14:02.720]  I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone as well, but I also want to invite those of
[14:02.720 --> 14:03.720]  you that are standing in the back.
[14:03.720 --> 14:06.840]  I know it's not the best seating in the world, but you're welcome to come sit down here on
[14:06.840 --> 14:07.840]  the front row.
[14:07.840 --> 14:12.520]  I just ask that you don't clog the aisles in case we need to make an exit that folks
[14:12.520 --> 14:19.440]  can get in and out, but feel free to come down to the front and sit down as an option.
[14:19.440 --> 14:25.080]  Yeah, just all along in front here, wherever there's room to sit as long as they don't
[14:25.080 --> 14:26.080]  clog the aisles.
[14:26.080 --> 14:29.000]  If you want to come down to the front and sit down here, there's a lot of room.
[14:29.000 --> 14:33.240]  I know there's some capitalist boys out there that used to do altering, so help folks sit
[14:33.240 --> 14:34.240]  down.
[14:34.240 --> 14:35.240]  Just don't block the aisles.
[14:35.240 --> 14:41.320]  Bucky, I know you were an alter boy.
[14:41.320 --> 14:42.440]  Anything else Mike going to add?
[14:42.440 --> 14:45.000]  I want to thank everyone for coming out.
[14:45.000 --> 14:50.480]  I also want to emphasize what's already been said that for me, this issue is critically
[14:50.480 --> 14:54.720]  important that we have a community discussion about it.
[14:54.720 --> 15:01.160]  What I don't want this to become is a bashing session, whether you're for or against this.
[15:01.160 --> 15:03.600]  That's not what tonight is about, in my opinion.
[15:03.600 --> 15:05.600]  That's not why I chose to be here.
[15:05.600 --> 15:10.600]  I want us to have a community dialogue about this because I believe these issues are important.
[15:10.600 --> 15:16.240]  The current transportation code already allows for mandatory blood draws in cases of involuntary
[15:16.240 --> 15:20.960]  manslaughter and in cases of felony injury by motorized vehicle.
[15:20.960 --> 15:26.680]  If you're flying a plane, driving a boat, driving a car or truck, and you have a felony
[15:26.680 --> 15:30.360]  bodily injury, you can be forced to give blood.
[15:30.360 --> 15:33.880]  For me, the issue is, do we want to expand that?
[15:33.880 --> 15:34.880]  Is that appropriate?
[15:34.880 --> 15:37.040]  Guys, the City Council is not going to make this decision.
[15:37.040 --> 15:40.360]  It's your legislators that are going to make this decision.
[15:40.360 --> 15:45.560]  Don't ask me why I stuck my neck in this guillotine, but I'm here because I do have opinions about
[15:45.560 --> 15:46.560]  this as well.
[15:46.560 --> 15:52.400]  I do believe that we do have an alcohol issue here in Austin, but very much like the position
[15:52.400 --> 15:56.720]  I took with panhandling, outlawing it isn't going to make it go away.
[15:56.720 --> 15:59.800]  It doesn't solve the problems that we truly face.
[15:59.800 --> 16:04.560]  I will continue to foster the community dialogue whenever and wherever possible with you all
[16:04.560 --> 16:09.680]  so that we can have those broad discussions and so that we can find the true policy position
[16:09.680 --> 16:11.680]  wherever that may lie.
[16:11.680 --> 16:16.760]  So I thank you all for your time this evening.
[16:16.760 --> 16:22.480]  Karen Housewright with Mothers Against Strong Childhood.
[16:22.480 --> 16:23.840]  Thank you, David.
[16:23.840 --> 16:25.040]  Thanks everybody for being here.
[16:25.040 --> 16:29.360]  I was going to say I'm really glad to be here, really excited, but I guess I'll know better
[16:29.360 --> 16:30.360]  in two hours.
[16:30.360 --> 16:34.760]  In any case, my name is Karen Housewright.
[16:34.760 --> 16:37.520]  I'm the state director for Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
[16:37.520 --> 16:44.800]  My office is about two blocks away on South Congress, right next to ACLU.
[16:44.800 --> 16:48.920]  But our mission is to stop drunk driving, to support the victims of this violent crime
[16:48.920 --> 16:52.000]  and to prevent underage drinking.
[16:52.000 --> 16:56.320]  MAD did create a campaign to eliminate drunk driving two years ago.
[16:56.320 --> 17:01.160]  One prong of that campaign is to support law enforcement.
[17:01.160 --> 17:06.280]  And we have very aggressively gone out and told law enforcement that we will support
[17:06.280 --> 17:10.680]  any legal means to stop this very horrible crime from occurring.
[17:10.680 --> 17:14.840]  So anyhow, that's what MAD's position is.
[17:14.840 --> 17:19.680]  And I look forward to the dialogue and to answering any questions you might have.
[17:19.680 --> 17:25.000]  Thank you, Karen.
[17:25.000 --> 17:27.920]  Debbie Russell with the ACLU of Central Texas.
[17:27.920 --> 17:28.920]  Hi.
[17:28.920 --> 17:29.920]  Thank you.
[17:29.920 --> 17:35.680]  And I wanted to put in a plug for a couple of more bottled waters, especially for the
[17:35.680 --> 17:40.640]  council member who may lose his voice here before too long.
[17:40.640 --> 17:41.640]  Thank you very much for coming.
[17:41.640 --> 17:42.960]  I knew this was going to be packed.
[17:42.960 --> 17:45.960]  This is a very controversial issue.
[17:45.960 --> 17:48.640]  And we should have a community dialogue.
[17:48.640 --> 17:53.600]  And I'm so glad that we're able to come together in this forum to do that.
[17:53.600 --> 17:57.440]  Well, having never sat on this side of the dice before, please do come sit down in front.
[17:57.440 --> 18:01.840]  It would make me feel better, honestly, more comfortable.
[18:01.840 --> 18:07.120]  Just to say that the ACLU of Texas in general, not just our chapter, certainly believes that
[18:07.120 --> 18:09.520]  police should be getting drunk drivers off the road.
[18:09.520 --> 18:11.200]  But that's where we believe it should end.
[18:11.200 --> 18:15.080]  We need them back on the streets continuing that practice so that the public safety is
[18:15.080 --> 18:16.080]  ensured.
[18:16.080 --> 18:19.000]  And I think that I'm going to close with that.
[18:19.000 --> 18:23.120]  I think the council member said it beautifully about the expansion is just there's no reason
[18:23.120 --> 18:24.120]  to expand it.
[18:24.120 --> 18:27.360]  They have the tools at their disposal and we'll go into that more.
[18:27.360 --> 18:28.360]  Thank you, Debbie.
[18:28.360 --> 18:29.360]  Okay.
[18:29.360 --> 18:35.360]  So now we're going to start our questions.
[18:35.360 --> 18:40.880]  And our first question, I think we'll start with John.
[18:40.880 --> 18:44.760]  This is on democratic process and federal and local.
[18:44.760 --> 18:45.760]  This is a question.
[18:45.760 --> 18:46.760]  This is for all individuals.
[18:46.760 --> 18:50.120]  I'll start with John and we'll just go around.
[18:50.120 --> 18:54.800]  As evident by the public outcry surrounding this issue, it is both complex and controversial.
[18:54.800 --> 18:59.000]  Do you feel that solutions to such complex problems should be determined at the local
[18:59.000 --> 19:02.680]  level or at the federal level, John?
[19:02.680 --> 19:03.680]  Very good question.
[19:03.680 --> 19:08.160]  I'm going to start by illustrating exactly what it is our founding fathers gave us in
[19:08.160 --> 19:09.160]  the constitution.
[19:09.160 --> 19:15.840]  It was a form of federalism where the federal government was supposed to be limited in nature.
[19:15.840 --> 19:20.080]  The authority was supposed to be vested in the people and the higher authority was supposed
[19:20.080 --> 19:23.040]  to be vested in the local governments and the state government.
[19:23.040 --> 19:27.840]  Unfortunately, we've gotten very far away from that operation of doing things and I
[19:27.840 --> 19:33.200]  believe that it has affected we as an American people as such.
[19:33.200 --> 19:40.120]  I hold right here in my hands the 2003 Criminal Justice Summit on Impaired Driving, which
[19:40.120 --> 19:44.840]  was carried out by the Department of Public Safety and the National Highway and Traffic
[19:44.840 --> 19:48.920]  Safety Administration, which just so happens to be the organization that the chief seeks
[19:48.920 --> 19:52.320]  to take federal funds from in order to carry out this program.
[19:52.320 --> 19:56.880]  I'd also like to point out that this program, it was a National Highway and Traffic Safety
[19:56.880 --> 20:02.400]  Administration agent that approached the chief at a Mothers Against Drunk Driving forum
[20:02.400 --> 20:06.440]  in order to ask him if he would take part in this pilot program.
[20:06.440 --> 20:10.680]  So I would like to say to the Austin residents that such complex and controversial problems
[20:10.680 --> 20:13.580]  should be decided upon at the local level.
[20:13.580 --> 20:19.240]  We should come together as a community and figure out a solution that fits Austin's unique
[20:19.240 --> 20:20.520]  character.
[20:20.520 --> 20:24.920]  If we don't, then what we will soon have coming our way, again, emanating from the federal
[20:24.920 --> 20:30.360]  government is, this is from the public policy group section segment of this and again, everything
[20:30.360 --> 20:36.720]  lately seems to be getting decided the federal government and pushed down on we lowly Austinites.
[20:36.720 --> 20:42.040]  From here it says, states and tribes should enact laws that allow for DWI checkpoints.
[20:42.040 --> 20:47.540]  They weren't just saying it, because here we have in the wonderful Texas legislature,
[20:47.540 --> 20:51.280]  we have two bills that are actually calling for just that.
[20:51.280 --> 20:53.000]  One of them was supposed to get heard today.
[20:53.000 --> 20:54.440]  I do not believe that it did.
[20:54.440 --> 20:55.440]  It did and it passed.
[20:55.440 --> 20:57.720]  It did and it passed out of the Senate.
[20:57.720 --> 20:58.720]  Yes.
[20:58.720 --> 20:59.720]  So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.
[20:59.720 --> 21:03.920]  Again, emanating from the federal government, we could possibly have DWI checkpoints and
[21:03.920 --> 21:04.920]  why I consider this-
[21:04.920 --> 21:05.920]  That's right.
[21:05.920 --> 21:13.560]  While I consider this police blood withdrawal issue to be of questionable constitutionality,
[21:13.560 --> 21:18.840]  if somebody could effectively argue how DWI checkpoints do not violate the fourth amendment,
[21:18.840 --> 21:22.240]  then I'd love to invite them up here to try to do that because I don't think that they
[21:22.240 --> 21:27.240]  can.
[21:27.240 --> 21:35.840]  This federal document also calls for making test refusal a crime.
[21:35.840 --> 21:40.800]  Now we have a declaration, it's a tenet of American political life and that is you're
[21:40.800 --> 21:42.640]  innocent until proven guilty.
[21:42.640 --> 21:47.160]  Well with this, they would effectively take that away and if you just merely refuse to
[21:47.160 --> 21:52.360]  take a breathalyzer or blood specimen, you will be a criminal.
[21:52.360 --> 21:56.680]  Not only that, again, one of the caveats for taking federal money, this is another problem
[21:56.680 --> 21:58.520]  with taking direction from the federal government.
[21:58.520 --> 22:00.560]  I'm trying to ask you to wrap it up so we can keep moving here.
[22:00.560 --> 22:03.120]  One of the caveats, there's always strings attached, one of those strings that's going
[22:03.120 --> 22:08.600]  to come along with this program will be the collection of a DNA DWI national database.
[22:08.600 --> 22:11.760]  Last time I checked, that does not fit in with the American way of life.
[22:11.760 --> 22:15.760]  I believe that these problems should be solved at the local level, not the federal.
[22:15.760 --> 22:20.920]  Okay, so the local level is John, we'll just go around, Mike, you want to read the question
[22:20.920 --> 22:21.920]  again or?
[22:21.920 --> 22:25.840]  It's a democratic process and federal and local.
[22:25.840 --> 22:31.040]  As evident by the public outcry surrounding this issue, it is both complex and controversial.
[22:31.040 --> 22:35.160]  Do you feel that solutions to such complex problems should be determined at the local
[22:35.160 --> 22:36.800]  level or at the federal level?
[22:36.800 --> 22:37.800]  Mike.
[22:37.800 --> 22:38.800]  Thanks, David.
[22:38.800 --> 22:39.800]  Thanks for the question.
[22:39.800 --> 22:42.760]  All government starts at the local level as evidenced by what's here today.
[22:42.760 --> 22:44.760]  That doesn't mean it finishes here.
[22:44.760 --> 22:48.320]  As I mentioned earlier, a state statute already speaks to this issue.
[22:48.320 --> 22:52.560]  The state senate passed out today, did the DWI checkpoints, they waived a two-thirds
[22:52.560 --> 22:53.560]  majority rule.
[22:53.560 --> 22:54.560]  They passed it.
[22:54.560 --> 22:56.440]  Now it's going to the House.
[22:56.440 --> 22:59.520]  These things are not something that's going to go away.
[22:59.520 --> 23:04.880]  Even if 98% of Austin votes on a ballot that you don't want it, it doesn't mean it's not
[23:04.880 --> 23:05.880]  going to happen.
[23:05.880 --> 23:10.680]  Our state legislatures and even our federal lawmakers are going to continue to contemplate
[23:10.680 --> 23:17.600]  policing measures as we move forward that expand policing ability to curb crime.
[23:17.600 --> 23:19.720]  I am one of Chief Osvaldo's biggest supporters.
[23:19.720 --> 23:26.760]  I believe that he has come in here and done a very good job with what he was faced with.
[23:26.760 --> 23:31.160]  Because I'll tell you how, because we no longer have racial strife in our community.
[23:31.160 --> 23:36.600]  No person- This is live from City Hall.
[23:36.600 --> 23:40.680]  This is Deborah Stevens from Rule of Law Radio Network, and we are broadcasting live from
[23:40.680 --> 23:46.200]  City Hall on the public hearing regarding police chief Osvaldo want to take federal
[23:46.200 --> 23:53.000]  funding to implement a program for the police to take blood on the side of the road, which
[23:53.000 --> 23:56.400]  is totally illegal, by the way, because they're not licensed medical providers.
[23:56.400 --> 24:02.680]  We- Hey, guys, let me be reasonable here, we're not going to be able to get through
[24:02.680 --> 24:03.680]  this.
[24:03.680 --> 24:06.400]  If you guys want to ask questions, that's fine, but you're going to have to listen to
[24:06.400 --> 24:07.400]  the answer.
[24:07.400 --> 24:08.400]  Yeah, let's- Everything-
[24:08.400 --> 24:23.400]  Let me make it clear, we're paying, we're paying by the hour, so this is just a-
[24:23.400 --> 24:24.880]  All right, the crowd is heckling.
[24:24.880 --> 24:26.600]  Which is you.
[24:26.600 --> 24:28.240]  And we have Sheila Dean here with us.
[24:28.240 --> 24:30.600]  Let's just try to keep it, you know- Sheila Dean, stop lying.
[24:30.600 --> 24:31.600]  I'm leaving, I feel very, very passionate about it.
[24:31.600 --> 24:32.600]  I'm going to bring those vices out.
[24:32.600 --> 24:33.600]  I'm going to be as passionate as any of you guys.
[24:33.600 --> 24:38.120]  Sheila, let's discuss a little bit while we're waiting for these guys inside there.
[24:38.120 --> 24:39.120]  Let's settle down.
[24:39.120 --> 24:41.760]  Let's discuss a little bit what happened at the Capitol today.
[24:41.760 --> 24:43.920]  Sheila Dean from 511campaign.org.
[24:43.920 --> 24:45.360]  Thank you for joining us.
[24:45.360 --> 24:47.920]  Thank you.
[24:47.920 --> 24:56.440]  I recognize that there was an overwhelming support for those who don't want a federal
[24:56.440 --> 24:57.440]  ID.
[24:57.440 --> 24:58.720]  All right.
[24:58.720 --> 25:01.120]  And I was astonished myself at the number of people.
[25:01.120 --> 25:04.880]  I didn't have to necessarily go get each and every one of them.
[25:04.880 --> 25:05.880]  They just showed up.
[25:05.880 --> 25:06.880]  That's good.
[25:06.880 --> 25:09.040]  And Debra, they were listening to this show.
[25:09.040 --> 25:10.040]  Excellent.
[25:10.040 --> 25:11.040]  So we did some good.
[25:11.040 --> 25:12.040]  Yes.
[25:12.040 --> 25:13.040]  Yes, you're out there.
[25:13.040 --> 25:17.440]  And this is a direct result.
[25:17.440 --> 25:26.440]  The results of the Chairman Merritt said that the bill would be pending in committee.
[25:26.440 --> 25:32.920]  So typically what that means is that the bill is kind of probably going to stay there.
[25:32.920 --> 25:39.360]  If it goes for a vote, I'll be real surprised, but there was overwhelming support to kill
[25:39.360 --> 25:40.360]  it.
[25:40.360 --> 25:41.360]  Excellent.
[25:41.360 --> 25:45.760]  So because we got the word out and there was enough pressure, it looks like the bill is
[25:45.760 --> 25:47.560]  going to die in committee.
[25:47.560 --> 25:48.560]  We hope so.
[25:48.560 --> 25:49.560]  We hope so.
[25:49.560 --> 25:50.560]  We certainly hope so.
[25:50.560 --> 25:51.560]  But it looks up there.
[25:51.560 --> 25:52.560]  How many people were there, Sheila?
[25:52.560 --> 25:55.560]  Karen, it was packed out.
[25:55.560 --> 25:56.560]  Really?
[25:56.560 --> 25:57.560]  There was an overflow room.
[25:57.560 --> 26:00.280]  So how many hundreds of people you think were there?
[26:00.280 --> 26:02.720]  No, I would say probably 100.
[26:02.720 --> 26:03.720]  That's great.
[26:03.720 --> 26:04.720]  At least 100.
[26:04.720 --> 26:05.720]  I would say 150.
[26:05.720 --> 26:06.720]  How many do you think are here right now?
[26:06.720 --> 26:08.520]  This is like at least 300 people.
[26:08.520 --> 26:11.600]  Just eyeballing it, I'd say closer to five.
[26:11.600 --> 26:13.320]  Three, round three.
[26:13.320 --> 26:14.320]  Yeah.
[26:14.320 --> 26:15.320]  Okay.
[26:15.320 --> 26:16.320]  The security guard is nodding.
[26:16.320 --> 26:17.320]  She knows the room count.
[26:17.320 --> 26:18.320]  Yes.
[26:18.320 --> 26:21.600]  So we got about 300 people here packing out City Hall, standing room only.
[26:21.600 --> 26:22.600]  Support them.
[26:22.600 --> 26:23.600]  All right.
[26:23.600 --> 26:25.280]  Well, thank you, Sheila, for the report from the Capitol.
[26:25.280 --> 26:28.200]  So it looks like we probably beat the implementation of real ID.
[26:28.200 --> 26:29.200]  Beat the ship.
[26:29.200 --> 26:30.200]  Beat the ship.
[26:30.200 --> 26:32.520]  It looks like we're going to beat real ID here in Texas after all.
[26:32.520 --> 26:33.520]  All right.
[26:33.520 --> 26:34.520]  Thank you, Sheila.
[26:34.520 --> 26:35.520]  You're welcome.
[26:35.520 --> 26:36.520]  All right.
[26:36.520 --> 26:37.520]  We're going to go back to the room now.
[26:37.520 --> 26:39.840]  This is live from City Hall, Austin City Hall.
[26:39.840 --> 26:45.120]  We're determining what is the outcome going to be about them wanting to illegally take
[26:45.120 --> 26:48.880]  blood because they do have to be licensed healthcare practitioners under the state medical
[26:48.880 --> 26:52.960]  board in order to do something like that, not to mention many other problems that they
[26:52.960 --> 26:54.200]  have legally.
[26:54.200 --> 26:56.400]  They have a lot of legal problems with doing this at all.
[26:56.400 --> 26:57.400]  All right.
[26:57.400 --> 26:58.400]  We'll be right back.
[26:58.400 --> 27:01.520]  You're not in the selection of Brenda Kalish, Chief.
[27:01.520 --> 27:07.240]  And as you know, I'm one of the police's greatest critics, but I will tell you that our new
[27:07.240 --> 27:13.960]  chief has brought to town some very good progressive change, some discipline, much needed discipline.
[27:13.960 --> 27:21.360]  And I'm frankly, I'm willing to trade off a little bit of these infringements for people
[27:21.360 --> 27:25.960]  not dying on our streets from our police officers for a while.
[27:25.960 --> 27:31.680]  Let me also add, though, that I also believe that he understands the Constitution and he
[27:31.680 --> 27:35.000]  understands infringements in those aspects.
[27:35.000 --> 27:39.920]  And I think he's a reasonable person that will listen to reasonable discourse.
[27:39.920 --> 27:41.640]  And I invite you all to make that-
[27:41.640 --> 27:43.880]  He's not that reasonable because he doesn't know what the law is.
[27:43.880 --> 27:48.320]  I have stood out in front of the police department screaming, yelling my head off time and again.
[27:48.320 --> 27:51.040]  Didn't get a lot of change that way, okay?
[27:51.040 --> 27:57.960]  But I have tailored my ways a little bit.
[27:57.960 --> 27:59.880]  And honestly, I think I've made it some headway.
[27:59.880 --> 28:02.960]  Our chapter has made some headway in the last few years.
[28:02.960 --> 28:08.400]  And I would like to invite you, we can do that, this yelling stuff another time if it
[28:08.400 --> 28:10.400]  comes to that, okay?
[28:10.400 --> 28:12.320]  And again, we guys, we appreciate it.
[28:12.320 --> 28:14.240]  The faster we get through this, the faster we get to your questions.
[28:14.240 --> 28:17.360]  So thank you for not adding any disruption to the audience.
[28:17.360 --> 28:18.360]  We appreciate it.
[28:18.360 --> 28:19.360]  Chief Asevedo.
[28:19.360 --> 28:21.200]  The question was local or federal?
[28:21.200 --> 28:22.200]  Local or federal?
[28:22.200 --> 28:27.520]  Well, obviously, I think that the more that we can do at the local level to impact our
[28:27.520 --> 28:30.080]  safety, the better off we are.
[28:30.080 --> 28:35.200]  But I just want to just remind people why I'm fighting this battle with DWI.
[28:35.200 --> 28:41.480]  50% of people die in this country every year on our highways, 50% nationwide, and we're
[28:41.480 --> 28:45.000]  consistent with that, it's because of DWI.
[28:45.000 --> 28:48.880]  More people die on our highways than there are murdered.
[28:48.880 --> 28:55.560]  Last year in Austin, we lost, unfortunately, 22 people to homicides, and yet, 27 out of
[28:55.560 --> 29:01.600]  59 people died in crashes are drunk drivers, or DWI.
[29:01.600 --> 29:03.720]  And that's a preventable crime.
[29:03.720 --> 29:08.200]  It's preventable through education, enforcement, and accountability.
[29:08.200 --> 29:12.400]  And I really believe in my heart of hearts that we do start at the local level, absolutely.
[29:12.400 --> 29:14.200]  That's where government is at.
[29:14.200 --> 29:19.000]  But from a law enforcement perspective, we have to use whatever tools we have at our
[29:19.000 --> 29:22.840]  disposal that are constitutional, consistent with law, to keep people safe, to hold them
[29:22.840 --> 29:26.880]  accountable, and to keep people home with their families instead of the morgue or at
[29:26.880 --> 29:29.760]  the hospital with life-altering injuries.
[29:29.760 --> 29:34.040]  So if tomorrow the United States Supreme Court told me I couldn't do something, guess what
[29:34.040 --> 29:35.040]  we're going to do?
[29:35.040 --> 29:36.040]  We're going to stop doing it.
[29:36.040 --> 29:39.960]  Or if the legislature tells us we can't do something, we're going to obey the law because
[29:39.960 --> 29:44.160]  at the end of the day, we are a nation of laws, and we in the Austin Police Department
[29:44.160 --> 29:46.840]  have to govern and enforce based on laws.
[29:46.840 --> 29:47.840]  So locals answer.
[29:47.840 --> 29:48.840]  Question number two.
[29:48.840 --> 29:49.840]  This is on liability.
[29:49.840 --> 29:54.240]  Recently, leaders of the city's two major hospital networks and Travis County jail officials
[29:54.240 --> 29:59.040]  have told Austin police that they no longer wish to collect blood evidence of suspects
[29:59.040 --> 30:00.040]  in criminal investigations.
[30:00.040 --> 30:05.200]  Of the reasons given for no longer wanting to participate in DWI blood withdrawals, the
[30:05.200 --> 30:10.360]  increased liability that nurses and hospitals could take on seems to be one of their biggest
[30:10.360 --> 30:11.360]  concerns.
[30:11.360 --> 30:12.640]  This is the question.
[30:12.640 --> 30:18.040]  Do you feel it is fair to subject Austin police officers and the city of Austin to this burden
[30:18.040 --> 30:19.040]  of liability?
[30:19.040 --> 30:20.040]  Again, one minute each, guys.
[30:20.040 --> 30:21.040]  We'll start with the chief.
[30:21.040 --> 30:22.040]  Okay.
[30:22.040 --> 30:23.600]  First, I have met with Seton.
[30:23.600 --> 30:28.680]  This all started last summer when I came back from the MAD conference, and I spoke about
[30:28.680 --> 30:31.040]  what's going on nationwide.
[30:31.040 --> 30:35.760]  Hospitals are getting out of the blood draw business because nurses don't like going to
[30:35.760 --> 30:36.760]  court.
[30:36.760 --> 30:39.120]  They don't like being part of the criminal justice system, and they want to free up their
[30:39.120 --> 30:43.680]  resources specifically so they can focus on patient care.
[30:43.680 --> 30:48.240]  The other part of that is that here in Austin in July, we say it was going to start happening.
[30:48.240 --> 30:49.240]  It's now happening.
[30:49.240 --> 30:54.320]  Seton Hospital doesn't want to do search warrant blood draws, and they don't want to do consent
[30:54.320 --> 30:55.320]  blood draws.
[30:55.320 --> 30:59.040]  We just got turned away for consent blood draws.
[30:59.040 --> 31:05.000]  So what we need is either trained police officers, which is what started this debate, or we need
[31:05.000 --> 31:09.960]  to hire phlebotomists, in-house phlebotomists, to obtain this.
[31:09.960 --> 31:12.600]  Because remember, blood evidence isn't just about DWI.
[31:12.600 --> 31:16.560]  It's about rape, child molestation, other crimes where you need that blood evidence
[31:16.560 --> 31:17.560]  to-
[31:17.560 --> 31:18.560]  What about the liability?
[31:18.560 --> 31:19.560]  What about the liability?
[31:19.560 --> 31:25.520]  The liability in the city, in Arizona, they started many years ago a program, an officer
[31:25.520 --> 31:26.520]  phlebotomy program.
[31:26.520 --> 31:30.680]  They had one lawsuit in many, many years of this program, and that lawsuit was-
[31:30.680 --> 31:32.480]  So you're willing to accept the risk of the liabilities?
[31:32.480 --> 31:35.640]  Well, I think in law enforcement, the second you put on your uniform, you walk out the
[31:35.640 --> 31:37.120]  door, you have liability.
[31:37.120 --> 31:38.120]  Okay.
[31:38.120 --> 31:39.120]  Okay.
[31:39.120 --> 31:40.120]  John?
[31:40.120 --> 31:43.880]  Yes, I believe that this is an undue burden of liability that we'll be placing not only
[31:43.880 --> 31:47.480]  on the city of Austin police officers, but on the city of Austin itself, and in turn,
[31:47.480 --> 31:48.480]  the taxpayers.
[31:48.480 --> 31:54.000]  The tort on this position, if you take a look at the DWI cases that work their way through
[31:54.000 --> 31:56.040]  the system, it is indefinite.
[31:56.040 --> 32:00.560]  It goes on and on and on, and while the Texas Criminal Court Appeals has ruled that you
[32:00.560 --> 32:07.160]  can forcibly take blood with a warrant, I can find some very large cracks in their argument.
[32:07.160 --> 32:11.880]  They completely failed to take into account the Ninth Amendment on that instance.
[32:11.880 --> 32:15.080]  Not only that, this is not Arizona.
[32:15.080 --> 32:19.200]  This is the city of Austin, and I know if we continue this practice of forcible blood
[32:19.200 --> 32:22.960]  withdrawals, the city of Austin residents are not going to lay down without putting
[32:22.960 --> 32:28.440]  up a fight, whether it be in the state legislature, the city council chambers, or the judiciary
[32:28.440 --> 32:29.960]  branch of the government.
[32:29.960 --> 32:34.880]  So even if the individuals do not have a case, they are still going to go to court, and guess
[32:34.880 --> 32:36.280]  who's going to have to foot the bill?
[32:36.280 --> 32:37.880]  The Austin taxpayers.
[32:37.880 --> 32:40.400]  So you have concerns about liability, obviously, a lot of concerns.
[32:40.400 --> 32:44.200]  And the police officers that I've spoken to, this is not an exaggeration, 90% of them do
[32:44.200 --> 32:46.780]  not feel police officers should be taking the blood either.
[32:46.780 --> 32:47.780]  They do not want the liability.
[32:47.780 --> 32:53.280]  They can't legally.
[32:53.280 --> 33:00.080]  All right, again, we are broadcasting live from Austin City Hall.
[33:00.080 --> 33:02.960]  This is the rule of law, rule of law radio.
[33:02.960 --> 33:07.920]  There's a police safety issue before requiring our officers to start drawing blood.
[33:07.920 --> 33:12.080]  We own some liability as it relates to their own safety, but then we own liability as it
[33:12.080 --> 33:16.720]  relates to evidentiary process, and that raises the host of other questions for me.
[33:16.720 --> 33:19.480]  And then thirdly is the cost to the taxpayers.
[33:19.480 --> 33:23.320]  What we found out in the DNA legislation that's filed at the state is that it's going to cost
[33:23.320 --> 33:29.640]  millions upon millions of dollars to collect and store the DNA and maintain it in a secure
[33:29.640 --> 33:30.640]  process.
[33:30.640 --> 33:34.520]  Again, I think there's just too many questions, and until those questions get answered, I
[33:34.520 --> 33:39.640]  don't believe the city of Austin should be engaged in taking blood samples, collecting
[33:39.640 --> 33:40.640]  and storing them.
[33:40.640 --> 33:50.240]  That's the liability.
[33:50.240 --> 33:56.240]  Liabilities mission, everything we do these days, you can be sued for anything.
[33:56.240 --> 34:01.480]  I think when you look at the cost of training the officers or the liability that we're talking
[34:01.480 --> 34:07.720]  about, let's think about the cost of drunk driving and the cost of medical care, the
[34:07.720 --> 34:13.800]  cost of law enforcement that we need just to try to keep the road safe.
[34:13.800 --> 34:20.280]  So I wish I had the figures in front of me regarding what the cost of DWI is, lost wages,
[34:20.280 --> 34:25.040]  medical care, et cetera, but I don't, but that ought to be considered as well, I believe.
[34:25.040 --> 34:27.160]  Okay, thank you.
[34:27.160 --> 34:33.280]  What the police are doing here is they're running a glorified public education campaign,
[34:33.280 --> 34:38.920]  and when we're spending police dollars doing that, we're spending the wrong dollars.
[34:38.920 --> 34:44.320]  You can get a lot more bang for the buck by doing actual public education campaigns.
[34:44.320 --> 34:48.720]  You don't get good turnaround with these types of programs.
[34:48.720 --> 34:54.800]  I have to differ with our MAD representative on the, for the checkpoints, for instance,
[34:54.800 --> 34:58.800]  that actually studies are showing that they get about a two to three percent rate of people
[34:58.800 --> 35:03.320]  that they stop on that, and they get a lot more people out on the highway by seeing who's
[35:03.320 --> 35:05.000]  actually driving drunk.
[35:05.000 --> 35:07.760]  So I don't think we can afford it at this time.
[35:07.760 --> 35:08.760]  Okay, thank you, Debbie.
[35:08.760 --> 35:09.760]  Good for her.
[35:09.760 --> 35:10.760]  David, feel, pardon me.
[35:10.760 --> 35:19.520]  David, just want to let everybody know we were able to get a live audio and video stream
[35:19.520 --> 35:24.920]  out in the lobby if folks want to go out there, if it gets a little warmer, we want to sit
[35:24.920 --> 35:25.920]  down at one of the tables.
[35:25.920 --> 35:29.200]  You're welcome to watch it and listen outside.
[35:29.200 --> 35:30.200]  Thank you, Councilman Martinez.
[35:30.200 --> 35:33.880]  The next question, they gave me a little bit of a paragraph to read, so I appreciate all
[35:33.880 --> 35:37.880]  of your patience as I go through this, and we'll start this one with Michael Martinez.
[35:37.880 --> 35:45.120]  This is a case, Beeman versus Texas, Section 724.013 of the implied consent chapter of
[35:45.120 --> 35:50.080]  the Texas Transformation Code prohibits the taking of blood or breath without consent
[35:50.080 --> 35:55.280]  unless the suspected drunk driver is believed to have caused an accident that involves serious
[35:55.280 --> 35:56.280]  bodily injury.
[35:56.280 --> 36:01.400]  In other words, according to the Texas transportation law, unless the suspected drunk driver caused
[36:01.400 --> 36:07.320]  an accident or injury to occur, a nurse or police officer may not forcibly withdraw blood.
[36:07.320 --> 36:12.520]  This was a status quo until a Texas criminal court of appeals ruled on the appeal of the
[36:12.520 --> 36:15.400]  case Beeman versus Texas in 2002.
[36:15.400 --> 36:19.120]  In this ruling, the court determined that since there was no injury, and this is the
[36:19.120 --> 36:24.600]  key part, since there was no injury involved, the lower court's ruling did in fact violate
[36:24.600 --> 36:28.520]  Section 724.013 of the Texas transportation code.
[36:28.520 --> 36:32.680]  They found, however, that since a warrant was obtained under reasonable circumstances,
[36:32.680 --> 36:37.840]  the Fourth Amendment overruled the prohibition in Texas law, and in turn, with a magistrate's
[36:37.840 --> 36:41.920]  approval, blood can be taken in all drunk driving circumstances.
[36:41.920 --> 36:45.200]  Here's a question, and I can read it again if you'd like.
[36:45.200 --> 36:51.000]  Do you feel the city of Austin should be encouraging the coercive practice of taking police blood
[36:51.000 --> 36:57.360]  evidence in all instances during no-refusal initiatives when the Texas legislature specifically
[36:57.360 --> 37:01.840]  prohibited the practice unless certain specific criteria are met?
[37:01.840 --> 37:04.080]  And we'll start with Counsel Person, my friend.
[37:04.080 --> 37:05.080]  Good for him.
[37:05.080 --> 37:06.080]  Thanks, David.
[37:06.080 --> 37:10.960]  It's pretty rough on the questions, longer than he answered, but, you know, the transportation
[37:10.960 --> 37:17.880]  code does allow for forced blood draws, and that's exactly what's being filed this session.
[37:17.880 --> 37:23.200]  In fact, the legislation that's proposed would take the requirement for compelled blood draws
[37:23.200 --> 37:24.920]  to be bodily injury.
[37:24.920 --> 37:29.080]  So if you're in a car accident, and you're suspected of having been drinking, or you
[37:29.080 --> 37:33.280]  admit to having been drinking, and someone gets injured, not incapacitated, if someone
[37:33.280 --> 37:38.240]  just says, I'm hurt, then a forced blood draw can take place, that's the legislation that's
[37:38.240 --> 37:39.240]  pending right now.
[37:39.240 --> 37:41.240]  So do you feel the city of Austin might...
[37:41.240 --> 37:43.080]  But it's not passed yet.
[37:43.080 --> 37:49.920]  The liability for forced blood draws, there's too many questions surrounding that liability
[37:49.920 --> 37:50.920]  at this point.
[37:50.920 --> 37:52.920]  And the criminal procedure code prohibits it to people.
[37:52.920 --> 37:55.800]  It's going to go back through the court system if legislation...
[37:55.800 --> 38:01.360]  And if there's conflicting law, the criminal procedure code wins out over the transportation
[38:01.360 --> 38:02.360]  code.
[38:02.360 --> 38:05.720]  As a policymaker, this is not something that I'm prepared to support at this point.
[38:05.720 --> 38:06.720]  Karen?
[38:06.720 --> 38:07.720]  Yeah.
[38:07.720 --> 38:14.400]  The criminal procedure code always wins out of the transportation code, and the transportation
[38:14.400 --> 38:18.200]  code may say that you can, but the criminal procedure code says that they cannot.
[38:18.200 --> 38:22.880]  That means the criminal procedure code wins out when there's conflicting law, clearly.
[38:22.880 --> 38:23.880]  Okay.
[38:23.880 --> 38:24.880]  Thank you.
[38:24.880 --> 38:25.880]  Debbie?
[38:25.880 --> 38:34.760]  Basically, yeah, the law states, the legislative law that is on the books, if they have the
[38:34.760 --> 38:39.880]  tools at their disposal to do the job that they need to do to protect the public safety,
[38:39.880 --> 38:46.480]  they have also tools at their disposal to bring further charges against you if you refuse
[38:46.480 --> 38:47.480]  the breathalyzer.
[38:47.480 --> 38:52.760]  A lot of pending legislation and what this case speaks to is basically punishing you
[38:52.760 --> 38:59.440]  for further, for having refused to do that breathalyzer and expanding the ways in which
[38:59.440 --> 39:02.520]  they can get warrants in order to draw the blood.
[39:02.520 --> 39:07.080]  And one thing we haven't brought up yet, and maybe this is not appropriate to do so, but
[39:07.080 --> 39:14.040]  the use of force issue in getting the blood from a person who is unwilling to give up
[39:14.040 --> 39:15.680]  their most precious identifier.
[39:15.680 --> 39:16.680]  Sure.
[39:16.680 --> 39:17.680]  Sure.
[39:17.680 --> 39:21.760]  And just a reminder, guys, if you have questions, Katie's got cue cards, white cue cards.
[39:21.760 --> 39:26.560]  We'll fill her flag or down, raise her hand, or somehow she'll get one out to you.
[39:26.560 --> 39:29.560]  Let's go to Chief next.
[39:29.560 --> 39:39.400]  For folks that are joining late, we're going to do alternating questions.
[39:39.400 --> 39:41.520]  One cue card, one at the mic, one cue card on the mic.
[39:41.520 --> 39:42.520]  So you've got a question.
[39:42.520 --> 39:44.120]  You're welcome to stand up here on each side.
[39:44.120 --> 39:48.360]  We'll have folks speaking after the five questions, or you can write down your question on a mic.
[39:48.360 --> 39:50.960]  I'm sorry, on the cue card or the mic.
[39:50.960 --> 39:52.960]  Chief, you're up next.
[39:52.960 --> 39:55.200]  Well, I want to change the term.
[39:55.200 --> 39:56.200]  It's not force.
[39:56.200 --> 40:01.640]  We're not using force to draw the blood evidence from folks where it's non-consensual testing
[40:01.640 --> 40:07.040]  where we're utilizing a legal process to obtain a search warrant.
[40:07.040 --> 40:11.640]  I was looking for the total numbers we've done in the initiatives, and I can't find
[40:11.640 --> 40:13.960]  it, but I'll bring it up.
[40:13.960 --> 40:16.560]  But force is not an option for us.
[40:16.560 --> 40:20.040]  We are not going to beat people to draw blood.
[40:20.040 --> 40:25.160]  It is non-consensual blood evidence that is obtained only after a probable cause of arrest
[40:25.160 --> 40:28.880]  has been made and only after a search warrant is issued by a judge.
[40:28.880 --> 40:29.880]  But it's mandatory.
[40:29.880 --> 40:30.880]  Yes.
[40:30.880 --> 40:36.160]  And just as a reminder that when you sign up for the privilege of driving, which these
[40:36.160 --> 40:41.880]  courts have stated very clearly, it's a privilege, it's not a right, you do sign to implied
[40:41.880 --> 40:42.880]  consent laws.
[40:42.880 --> 40:43.880]  Okay.
[40:43.880 --> 40:44.880]  All right, John.
[40:44.880 --> 40:49.920]  I want to start off by saying sometimes the courts in the United States do not get it
[40:49.920 --> 40:50.920]  right.
[40:50.920 --> 40:55.280]  Unfortunately, the Texas Criminal Court of Appeals failed in our instance in Beeman v.
[40:55.280 --> 40:56.280]  Texas.
[40:56.280 --> 40:57.280]  Let me break it down for you.
[40:57.280 --> 41:03.120]  The Texas Code of Criminal Appeals, Section 724.013, specifically prohibits non-consensual
[41:03.120 --> 41:07.280]  blood withdrawals unless, as Mike Martinez has pointed out, there was an accident or
[41:07.280 --> 41:09.080]  serious bodily injury.
[41:09.080 --> 41:13.160]  The way that the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals gets around this is they state that the Fourth
[41:13.160 --> 41:16.880]  Amendment, as long as we have a reasonable reason to get a search warrant and issue a
[41:16.880 --> 41:19.960]  search warrant, the Fourth Amendment trumps Texas Code.
[41:19.960 --> 41:24.600]  Well, they fail to recognize the Ninth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which often
[41:24.600 --> 41:25.600]  goes overlooked.
[41:25.600 --> 41:26.920]  I'll read it real quick.
[41:26.920 --> 41:31.960]  The enumeration and the constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disbarge
[41:31.960 --> 41:33.680]  others retained by the people.
[41:33.680 --> 41:39.160]  So I would argue that using the Fourth Amendment to take away our right to refuse a blood withdrawal
[41:39.160 --> 41:41.780]  is unconstitutional under the Ninth Amendment.
[41:41.780 --> 41:45.240]  And if I get my blood taken forcibly, you can bet your bottom dollar, I'll take it all
[41:45.240 --> 41:48.240]  the way to the Supreme Court to revisit that.
[41:48.240 --> 41:57.160]  Yet not to mention the fact that the Criminal Procedure Code prohibits this.
[41:57.160 --> 42:01.880]  That John does not feel the City of Austin should be encouraging this.
[42:01.880 --> 42:05.560]  And I'm assuming, Chief, that you are encouraging the City of Austin, obviously.
[42:05.560 --> 42:06.560]  Yes.
[42:06.560 --> 42:07.560]  Okay.
[42:07.560 --> 42:08.560]  All right.
[42:08.560 --> 42:16.320]  Our next question is on training, and we're also going to start with the Chief on this
[42:16.320 --> 42:17.800]  question.
[42:17.800 --> 42:22.040]  What type and amount of training does the City of Austin plan on giving to the police
[42:22.040 --> 42:26.320]  officers that will be administering the blood withdrawals to the rest of the...
[42:26.320 --> 42:28.480]  And so that's a question to the Chief again.
[42:28.480 --> 42:32.760]  What type and amount of training does the City of Austin plan on giving to the police
[42:32.760 --> 42:35.680]  officers that will be administering the blood withdrawals?
[42:35.680 --> 42:38.280]  This question is actually only for the Chief, no one else.
[42:38.280 --> 42:39.280]  Okay.
[42:39.280 --> 42:42.960]  First of all, I just want to say something real clearly, that this phlebotomist program
[42:42.960 --> 42:46.800]  will not happen unless it has this complete support and approval of the Council.
[42:46.800 --> 42:49.720]  We committed to that from day one.
[42:49.720 --> 42:56.520]  It's a separate issue from utilizing the court's rulings on the constitutionality of search
[42:56.520 --> 42:57.520]  forms.
[42:57.520 --> 43:03.560]  If we move forward with this, the program would call for us to go to the Austin Community
[43:03.560 --> 43:04.560]  College.
[43:04.560 --> 43:12.680]  It is one of two training phlebotomy programs that are nationally accredited in the country.
[43:12.680 --> 43:20.040]  It would require that the officers perform 100 blood draws in a clinical setting, obviously
[43:20.040 --> 43:21.680]  at a hospital.
[43:21.680 --> 43:27.240]  And it would be, obviously, if carried out under strict guidelines and supervision.
[43:27.240 --> 43:33.400]  And then we've talked about it at the jail, there is a blood draw area that we have designated
[43:33.400 --> 43:39.680]  for us from Travis County Jails where I'd be very happy to have a camera there actually
[43:39.680 --> 43:41.960]  capturing the process.
[43:41.960 --> 43:47.720]  But if it is adopted by the city, it gives us training at Austin Community College as
[43:47.720 --> 43:50.520]  one of two nationally accredited programs.
[43:50.520 --> 43:51.520]  And that's when it would happen.
[43:51.520 --> 43:58.200]  And by the way, as to John's position on officers not wanting it, we have quite a few officers
[43:58.200 --> 44:02.160]  that have volunteered to go through the training and...
[44:02.160 --> 44:05.160]  How many are you expecting?
[44:05.160 --> 44:12.200]  How many?
[44:12.200 --> 44:13.200]  Over 50.
[44:13.200 --> 44:14.200]  Interesting.
[44:14.200 --> 44:15.200]  Yeah.
[44:15.200 --> 44:18.920]  I would never force somebody to be in a program.
[44:18.920 --> 44:20.520]  David, can I speak to that?
[44:20.520 --> 44:21.520]  Pardon me?
[44:21.520 --> 44:22.520]  Yeah, sure.
[44:22.520 --> 44:23.520]  It's a 20-hour course, if I recall.
[44:23.520 --> 44:24.520]  Is that correct?
[44:24.520 --> 44:26.960]  That's all it requires in the state of...
[44:26.960 --> 44:27.960]  It's 40?
[44:27.960 --> 44:31.160]  In the state of Texas, I thought we had a 20-hour minimum.
[44:31.160 --> 44:32.160]  No, the course...
[44:32.160 --> 44:37.720]  Remember, what I just said was the Austin Community College has one of two nationally
[44:37.720 --> 44:38.920]  accredited programs.
[44:38.920 --> 44:42.920]  So it's double the requirements of other places.
[44:42.920 --> 44:47.480]  And this is all being paid for by this federal grant or by our taxpayers?
[44:47.480 --> 44:53.400]  If we were to obtain, I'll be real honest with you because we do have a real DWI problem
[44:53.400 --> 45:00.920]  and John truly admits that, NHTSA is very interested in us being the first city outside
[45:00.920 --> 45:04.760]  of Arizona because they know that we have a problem.
[45:04.760 --> 45:09.440]  Texas has a heck of a problem and they want to study what our results would be in terms
[45:09.440 --> 45:15.320]  of on the back end, it cuts down on criminal trials and you know how the criminal justice
[45:15.320 --> 45:16.780]  system is pretty backlogged.
[45:16.780 --> 45:22.080]  So there are some other benefits in terms of costs and saving over time.
[45:22.080 --> 45:25.240]  But the federal government will be paying for this training, is that correct to say?
[45:25.240 --> 45:28.360]  If we're authorized to do it, it would be fairly funded, yes.
[45:28.360 --> 45:29.360]  Federally funded.
[45:29.360 --> 45:31.200]  Can I speak to that real quick?
[45:31.200 --> 45:32.200]  Sure.
[45:32.200 --> 45:36.720]  I just want to point out while I normally commend the chief for his transparency, accessibility
[45:36.720 --> 45:40.440]  and openness, it comes as a surprise to me that the chief just quoted exactly what the
[45:40.440 --> 45:41.760]  training program would be.
[45:41.760 --> 45:46.440]  I sent in a public information request to get that exact information about 15 days ago.
[45:46.440 --> 45:47.440]  It was not met.
[45:47.440 --> 45:49.720]  They said that that document did not exist.
[45:49.720 --> 45:51.520]  Just wanted to point that out.
[45:51.520 --> 45:53.840]  Do you want to comment on the chief or?
[45:53.840 --> 45:59.080]  Yeah, actually I just got back from a vacation so I'd have to see where that's at.
[45:59.080 --> 46:06.760]  It'd be kind of stupid for me to hide something and come here and talk about it.
[46:06.760 --> 46:08.760]  We appreciate you giving that information to us.
[46:08.760 --> 46:09.760]  Yeah.
[46:09.760 --> 46:11.760]  Okay, on the training, this question is for the rest of the panel.
[46:11.760 --> 46:12.760]  We'll start with John.
[46:12.760 --> 46:16.400]  For the rest of the panel, what amount of training do you feel would be sufficient for
[46:16.400 --> 46:20.960]  an officer to be able to faithfully execute a blood withdrawal from a DWI suspect?
[46:20.960 --> 46:21.960]  John?
[46:21.960 --> 46:26.720]  I'd also like to point out that that very same section 724, everybody should read it.
[46:26.720 --> 46:29.880]  It's pretty intense dealing with specifically what we're talking about right now.
[46:29.880 --> 46:35.400]  It actually prohibits emergency medical personnel from doing blood withdrawals.
[46:35.400 --> 46:40.640]  They have a lot more training and experience in doing blood withdrawals and administering
[46:40.640 --> 46:42.480]  any type of needle to the vein.
[46:42.480 --> 46:47.880]  I do not feel that any training would be sufficient for a police officer to take blood from a
[46:47.880 --> 46:49.160]  Austin resident.
[46:49.160 --> 46:52.920]  Not only will this individual be intoxicated, and unfortunately the courts have ruled that
[46:52.920 --> 46:55.600]  they can take it by force.
[46:55.600 --> 47:00.480]  I do not want to see the citizens of Austin subjected to this force, nor do I want to
[47:00.480 --> 47:02.680]  see the Austin police officer subjected to that.
[47:02.680 --> 47:04.360]  Right now it's a trained nurse license.
[47:04.360 --> 47:10.000]  Well, the real question is not what they think is enough training, what does the Texas Medical
[47:10.000 --> 47:11.640]  Board think is enough training?
[47:11.640 --> 47:15.560]  The jail nurses at Travis County no longer want to do it because they want to focus on
[47:15.560 --> 47:16.560]  their patient care.
[47:16.560 --> 47:20.800]  And quite frankly, we do a very good job of our DWIs in the city of Austin.
[47:20.800 --> 47:21.800]  I'm very proud of it.
[47:21.800 --> 47:26.160]  It's a trained nurse right now that's doing the...there are no police officers doing it
[47:26.160 --> 47:27.160]  right now.
[47:27.160 --> 47:28.160]  Pardon me?
[47:28.160 --> 47:29.160]  There are no police officers doing it right now.
[47:29.160 --> 47:30.160]  Not in our city, obviously.
[47:30.160 --> 47:36.960]  I think one city outside of...there's a Dalworthington...Dalworthington Gardens, there's a few other small cities...Houston
[47:36.960 --> 47:37.960]  is doing it.
[47:37.960 --> 47:38.960]  Houston.
[47:38.960 --> 47:39.960]  They're doing that in Houston.
[47:39.960 --> 47:40.960]  All right.
[47:40.960 --> 47:43.600]  Michael Martinez, same question about training.
[47:43.600 --> 47:44.600]  What do you think?
[47:44.600 --> 47:45.600]  Do you want me to read it again?
[47:45.600 --> 47:46.600]  Sure.
[47:46.600 --> 47:50.640]  Let's hear her read the question, please.
[47:50.640 --> 47:53.800]  What amount of training do you feel would be sufficient for an officer to be able to
[47:53.800 --> 47:56.920]  faithfully execute a blood withdrawal from a DWI suspect?
[47:56.920 --> 47:57.920]  Yeah.
[47:57.920 --> 47:59.520]  Like I said, it doesn't matter what they think is enough training.
[47:59.520 --> 48:02.280]  It matters what the Texas State Medical Board thinks is enough training.
[48:02.280 --> 48:06.160]  You have to be certified to do these kinds of things under the state.
[48:06.160 --> 48:08.180]  Whatever the federal government thinks about it doesn't really matter.
[48:08.180 --> 48:10.280]  We have state laws and the state medical board here.
[48:10.280 --> 48:11.280]  I was a firefighter.
[48:11.280 --> 48:15.560]  And I know exactly what it's like to roll up on a patient and try to hit a vein 20,
[48:15.560 --> 48:22.880]  13 times in some folks who just don't have the capacity to draw blood from.
[48:22.880 --> 48:24.160]  It becomes very difficult.
[48:24.160 --> 48:29.960]  It becomes a medical procedure at that point that takes the appropriate amount of training.
[48:29.960 --> 48:37.360]  Again, the liability issues and the questions of evidentiary process just haven't been answered.
[48:37.360 --> 48:43.320]  You can't tell me that we can clearly define the pathway of where that evidence starts
[48:43.320 --> 48:50.520]  and ends and where it's stored and securely stored for me convincingly enough.
[48:50.520 --> 48:51.520]  Okay.
[48:51.520 --> 48:52.520]  Karen.
[48:52.520 --> 49:01.000]  The phlebotomy training that the chief alluded to is what Matt would believe would be the
[49:01.000 --> 49:05.760]  standard for preparing officers to take the blood specimens.
[49:05.760 --> 49:06.760]  Just that training is enough.
[49:06.760 --> 49:07.760]  Yes.
[49:07.760 --> 49:08.760]  Okay.
[49:08.760 --> 49:09.760]  Dennis?
[49:09.760 --> 49:10.760]  It was their idea.
[49:10.760 --> 49:11.760]  Yes.
[49:11.760 --> 49:19.600]  The police are police and medical professionals do this every single day, 20, 30 times a day.
[49:19.600 --> 49:21.880]  Some of them are drawing blood.
[49:21.880 --> 49:29.280]  It takes quite a bit of practice and police are spending, a trained phlebotomist police
[49:29.280 --> 49:35.560]  officer spends 99% of their time out in the field protecting the public safety.
[49:35.560 --> 49:42.560]  And then to go in here and there once a week, once a month, I think that's very dangerous.
[49:42.560 --> 49:48.080]  I think that really does open up the city to a lot of liability that again, these questions
[49:48.080 --> 49:50.080]  have not been answered.
[49:50.080 --> 49:54.560]  I think also you're talking about police officers.
[49:54.560 --> 50:00.400]  They're not necessarily known for being the most genteel creatures in the world.
[50:00.400 --> 50:01.400]  No offense.
[50:01.400 --> 50:06.600]  But honestly, the reputation, when you put them in the chair, and I want to go back to
[50:06.600 --> 50:09.960]  that use of force, he says that they won't use force.
[50:09.960 --> 50:10.960]  They do use force.
[50:10.960 --> 50:14.680]  They are allowed to use up to a certain level, get you in the chair, strap you down and use
[50:14.680 --> 50:16.080]  pressure points.
[50:16.080 --> 50:22.640]  Now we know with our police department in the past, at least before our chief's tenure,
[50:22.640 --> 50:26.460]  we have had an incredible problem with excessive use of force.
[50:26.460 --> 50:27.460]  You can wrap up.
[50:27.460 --> 50:32.440]  We just don't want to see another area in which that's going to be another problem.
[50:32.440 --> 50:33.440]  Okay.
[50:33.440 --> 50:34.440]  Thank you, Debbie.
[50:34.440 --> 50:39.440]  We're making great progress, guys.
[50:39.440 --> 50:40.880]  We appreciate all your cooperation.
[50:40.880 --> 50:44.600]  We've got one more question that was pre-planned, and then we're going to go to your questions.
[50:44.600 --> 50:46.800]  Can I just add one thing real quick, David?
[50:46.800 --> 50:47.800]  Okay.
[50:47.800 --> 50:51.800]  Whether the police does it or somebody else does it, and let's just talk about blood
[50:51.800 --> 50:58.200]  evidence, period, whether it's for rape or you need evidence of a rape, murder, whatever,
[50:58.200 --> 51:04.600]  or we have a search warrant, the question still and the problem still remains that hospitals
[51:04.600 --> 51:09.400]  want to get out of that business because nurses don't want to be in court cross-examined by
[51:09.400 --> 51:10.400]  a defense attorney.
[51:10.400 --> 51:15.200]  They don't want to have to pay the cost of people losing the personnel hours.
[51:15.200 --> 51:20.120]  So my question is, it would take us seven phlebotomists on staff.
[51:20.120 --> 51:24.880]  If we hired seven phlebotomists for the police department, we wouldn't have a problem.
[51:24.880 --> 51:30.240]  We wouldn't need a phlebotomy program, but we have a responsibility under the law to
[51:30.240 --> 51:36.760]  lawfully obtain evidence of a crime when we have probable cause, when we have a warrant.
[51:36.760 --> 51:43.320]  And so I guess my question to the panel would be, would you support us getting seven full-time
[51:43.320 --> 51:49.600]  phlebotomists on staff that are not police officers, if that's all they do, so police
[51:49.600 --> 51:50.880]  don't have to be in that business.
[51:50.880 --> 51:53.840]  So the city of Austin has to pay for those seven, that there's still a lot of costs that
[51:53.840 --> 51:54.840]  goes into that.
[51:54.840 --> 51:55.840]  Do you guys want to-
[51:55.840 --> 51:56.840]  There's a cost involved.
[51:56.840 --> 51:57.840]  Yeah.
[51:57.840 --> 51:58.840]  Anybody have a quick answer on that?
[51:58.840 --> 51:59.840]  Yeah.
[51:59.840 --> 52:01.960]  A quick answer is the phlebotomists, at least they're a lot cheaper than the highest paid
[52:01.960 --> 52:03.960]  police officers in the nation.
[52:03.960 --> 52:07.560]  I'd also like to point out, while a phlebotomist doing the blood withdrawals is preferential
[52:07.560 --> 52:14.400]  to a police officer doing it, we are still against the whole idea of no refusal.
[52:14.400 --> 52:23.000]  Okay, this is the last question, and again, if you guys have questions, feel free to fill
[52:23.000 --> 52:24.000]  out a cue card.
[52:24.000 --> 52:29.960]  Please write your questions very concisely and neatly so we can read them, Katie.
[52:29.960 --> 52:37.200]  Ideally, if it's to a specific person, it can make it much faster a process.
[52:37.200 --> 52:39.800]  Please write the name of the person, obviously, on the cue card.
[52:39.800 --> 52:43.680]  Okay, our last question on alternative solutions, we'll start with Karen.
[52:43.680 --> 52:46.960]  We all agree that there is a serious drinking and driving problem here in Austin.
[52:46.960 --> 52:52.920]  Besides the program the chief is pursuing, what are other options worth exploring that
[52:52.920 --> 52:56.280]  are perhaps proactive and preventative in nature?
[52:56.280 --> 52:57.280]  Karen.
[52:57.280 --> 52:58.280]  Sobriety checkpoints.
[52:58.280 --> 53:02.160]  Sobriety checkpoints being the most effective deterrent to drunk driving.
[53:02.160 --> 53:06.480]  Those are at the top of our legislative list, and we will very actively and aggressively
[53:06.480 --> 53:12.200]  support APD and other local law enforcement agencies that choose to conduct sobriety checkpoints
[53:12.200 --> 53:13.200]  when they're-
[53:13.200 --> 53:14.200]  That's very direct.
[53:14.200 --> 53:18.920]  Are there other proactive, more preventative in the nature of the question?
[53:18.920 --> 53:21.360]  Well, sobriety checkpoints are very preventative.
[53:21.360 --> 53:22.360]  They are deterrents.
[53:22.360 --> 53:25.360]  They are the most effective deterrents to drunk driving.
[53:25.360 --> 53:26.360]  You can go next, Debbie.
[53:26.360 --> 53:27.360]  Do you want to finish your thought?
[53:27.360 --> 53:32.480]  But, of course, Matt is already actively involved in the schools, as are many other organizations
[53:32.480 --> 53:36.560]  trying to educate the public about the dangers of drinking and driving.
[53:36.560 --> 53:42.200]  Also, Ignition Interlocks, we know, work for repeat offenders, and so Matt is very supportive
[53:42.200 --> 53:47.320]  of the use of the requirement that Ignition Interlock devices be installed in the vehicles
[53:47.320 --> 53:49.360]  of all convicted offenders.
[53:49.360 --> 53:50.360]  Okay.
[53:50.360 --> 53:51.360]  Debbie.
[53:51.360 --> 53:52.360]  Yeah.
[53:52.360 --> 53:58.560]  Well, this is the major chiefs, major city chiefs legislative agenda.
[53:58.560 --> 54:05.240]  In it are all of these points that we've touched on today, and these checkpoints, the blood
[54:05.240 --> 54:10.040]  draws, the training of the police, that does nothing to prevent a drunk person getting
[54:10.040 --> 54:11.400]  behind the wheel.
[54:11.400 --> 54:15.440]  The interlocking device, perhaps, is the only measure that does, but that's not actually
[54:15.440 --> 54:18.300]  in here.
[54:18.300 --> 54:21.720]  We need to talk as a community, and I think that's one of the reasons we were brought
[54:21.720 --> 54:26.240]  here today, as to actually what we can do as a community to offer these solutions.
[54:26.240 --> 54:32.440]  It's not up to the police to devise these public education campaigns and these other
[54:32.440 --> 54:37.120]  preventative ways to keep people from getting behind the wheel, but they should be downtown
[54:37.120 --> 54:40.920]  on the streets preventing people from getting behind the wheel in the first place, and they're
[54:40.920 --> 54:41.920]  not doing that.
[54:41.920 --> 54:44.800]  They stand in one place, and they're not getting to where people are going to their cars or
[54:44.800 --> 54:48.080]  stumbling to their cars, I should say, and preventing them from getting behind the wheels
[54:48.080 --> 54:51.040]  because they want to get those arrest numbers in the end.
[54:51.040 --> 54:52.040]  That is not prevention.
[54:52.040 --> 55:04.200]  And that was set up perfectly for the next panel, which is the chief.
[55:04.200 --> 55:07.840]  Again, chief, this is for preventative and proactive in nature.
[55:07.840 --> 55:09.600]  I think it's really easy.
[55:09.600 --> 55:10.600]  Don't drink and drive.
[55:10.600 --> 55:12.280]  Don't worry about being arrested.
[55:12.280 --> 55:13.280]  That's one.
[55:13.280 --> 55:16.320]  It's a very simple solution.
[55:16.320 --> 55:25.360]  Secondly, if we sat at bars and started watching bars for people to come out, there would be
[55:25.360 --> 55:29.720]  a brouhaha where we would be beyond- I didn't say that.
[55:29.720 --> 55:30.720]  Excuse me?
[55:30.720 --> 55:33.880]  Okay, well, let me just finish the statement.
[55:33.880 --> 55:37.200]  Before they get to their cars, we would be beat up.
[55:37.200 --> 55:41.840]  I've seen cops sit at bars in the past, and it's against policy in most departments.
[55:41.840 --> 55:44.960]  You can't sit at bars, period.
[55:44.960 --> 55:47.360]  The solution, I mean, to me is simple.
[55:47.360 --> 55:48.360]  Don't drink and drive.
[55:48.360 --> 55:51.120]  Remember, it's not about DWI.
[55:51.120 --> 55:52.120]  It's about what's next.
[55:52.120 --> 55:59.040]  The next time we need evidence and we have a lawful court order, and the hospital says,
[55:59.040 --> 56:00.040]  no.
[56:00.040 --> 56:04.200]  What do I tell that family or that victim, whether it's a drunk that killed them, a repeat
[56:04.200 --> 56:08.120]  offender that killed them, or whether it's a victim of a molestation or a rape, what
[56:08.120 --> 56:09.120]  do I tell the victim?
[56:09.120 --> 56:13.640]  I knew that the hospitals were becoming more and more hesitant.
[56:13.640 --> 56:17.920]  So I think that at the end of the day, if the hospitals aren't willing to do these,
[56:17.920 --> 56:22.520]  we're going to have to come up with either having police officers trained with the national
[56:22.520 --> 56:28.720]  standards or having staffed phlebotomists.
[56:28.720 --> 56:30.200]  What about, I mean, are there any other preventatives?
[56:30.200 --> 56:34.840]  I mean, we talked about some training for education for individuals in schools.
[56:34.840 --> 56:38.120]  What about attacking the root cause, I think is what they're getting at here.
[56:38.120 --> 56:39.960]  We have a lot of education programs.
[56:39.960 --> 56:43.280]  We have a lot of youth programs.
[56:43.280 --> 56:46.360]  Next week I'm going to a program to talk to high school kids where they recreate a drunk
[56:46.360 --> 56:47.780]  driving scene.
[56:47.780 --> 56:50.960]  We have a lot of education programs, but life's about choices.
[56:50.960 --> 56:53.680]  We know that some people are going to make the poor choice.
[56:53.680 --> 56:58.040]  Some people make the poor choice over and over again.
[56:58.040 --> 57:00.280]  Our job is to hold people accountable.
[57:00.280 --> 57:06.080]  If the law, John, changes tomorrow, we will adhere to what the courts tell us to do, what
[57:06.080 --> 57:07.560]  the legislature tells us to do.
[57:07.560 --> 57:08.560]  All right.
[57:08.560 --> 57:09.560]  Let's keep moving, guys.
[57:09.560 --> 57:10.560]  We've got a lot of people in line, John.
[57:10.560 --> 57:11.560]  Okay.
[57:11.560 --> 57:15.760]  The chief has said that he wants to have police officers withdraw blood at the jailhouse.
[57:15.760 --> 57:19.800]  I'd like to point out Schmerber v. California is the biggest Supreme Court case dealing
[57:19.800 --> 57:21.400]  with blood withdrawals.
[57:21.400 --> 57:26.400]  And they condone blood withdrawals if it were, this is a direct quote, Schmerber v. California
[57:26.400 --> 57:31.240]  1966, if it were administered by police in the privacy station house.
[57:31.240 --> 57:32.240]  They condone that.
[57:32.240 --> 57:36.320]  To tolerate searches under these conditions might be to invite an unjustified element
[57:36.320 --> 57:39.600]  of personal risk of infection and pain.
[57:39.600 --> 57:42.720]  That's one of the solutions that's being presented to us.
[57:42.720 --> 57:46.000]  We've already illustrated the questionable constitutional nature of this issue.
[57:46.000 --> 57:51.160]  I got a common sense solution that I think fits very nicely with the nature of Austin.
[57:51.160 --> 57:57.240]  How about we start a nice little education campaign and we grow the Austin Safe Ride
[57:57.240 --> 58:04.160]  Home Project, which is a non-profit that takes private money and provides a free taxi cab
[58:04.160 --> 58:07.200]  ride home to drunk driving Austin residents.
[58:07.200 --> 58:08.800]  How about we go even further?
[58:08.800 --> 58:12.480]  If we're going to take federal money, if we're going to take any public money, why don't
[58:12.480 --> 58:14.640]  we subsidize these taxi cab services?
[58:14.640 --> 58:21.080]  Why don't we move the obtrusive licenses on them so we can actually afford a ride home?
[58:21.080 --> 58:25.600]  And that is proactive and preventative in nature.
[58:25.600 --> 58:26.600]  Thank you, John.
[58:26.600 --> 58:27.600]  Michael?
[58:27.600 --> 58:36.840]  Oh, while providing rides home may create safety, it doesn't solve the issue.
[58:36.840 --> 58:41.400]  The issue is, which we all have agreed on the panel, that we have a drinking and driving
[58:41.400 --> 58:44.560]  problem in Austin and a drinking problem for that matter.
[58:44.560 --> 58:50.880]  It is one component, but I believe this community can come up with a solution, guys.
[58:50.880 --> 58:55.680]  And saying that you can't sit down on 6th Street or in a bar district and figure out
[58:55.680 --> 58:59.280]  what needs to be done, I don't think it's challenging yourself enough.
[58:59.280 --> 59:03.520]  We just had an entire 10-month conversation about live music in neighborhoods and how
[59:03.520 --> 59:06.400]  we work together if we're going to be the live music capital of the world.
[59:06.400 --> 59:09.920]  Well, if we're going to be the live music capital of the world and have the University
[59:09.920 --> 59:13.800]  of Texas and have 6th Street, we need to do it responsibly.
[59:13.800 --> 59:18.740]  I believe that we can create a component that educates the retail aspect of this.
[59:18.740 --> 59:22.600]  If you are over-serving someone and you cut them off and tell them, you need to leave,
[59:22.600 --> 59:24.740]  you've been over-served, guess what?
[59:24.740 --> 59:27.200]  We got a problem there because where do they go?
[59:27.200 --> 59:30.520]  They go out on the street, they get in their cars or they go to the next bar who serves
[59:30.520 --> 59:31.520]  them some more.
[59:31.520 --> 59:32.820]  That's a problem.
[59:32.820 --> 59:34.800]  We have to address this aggressively.
[59:34.800 --> 59:36.360]  We have to be responsible.
[59:36.360 --> 59:38.280]  We're not trying to hurt the economy.
[59:38.280 --> 59:43.040]  We're not trying to shut down bars, but guys, we can come up with some alternative programs.
[59:43.040 --> 59:49.160]  Let's give our panelists a round of applause for their answers on that because now we're
[59:49.160 --> 59:51.160]  going to switch gears.
[59:51.160 --> 59:52.880]  We've got a lot of people here, guys.
[59:52.880 --> 59:54.680]  I'm going to keep you to under a minute.
[59:54.680 --> 59:57.400]  If you can ask your question quickly, I'd really appreciate it.
[59:57.400 --> 59:58.400]  We get through a lot of questions.
[59:58.400 --> 01:00:00.680]  We're going to start with the mic and then go to a cue card.
[01:00:00.680 --> 01:00:01.680]  Mic cue card.
[01:00:01.680 --> 01:00:02.680]  Mic cue card back and forth.
[01:00:02.680 --> 01:00:03.680]  We've got a line on each side.
[01:00:03.680 --> 01:00:05.360]  We're going to start right here.
[01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:09.480]  Are we ready, Katie, to get going or who's in line first?
[01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:11.920]  Okay, then you'll go second if that's okay after the cue card.
[01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:17.120]  Okay, so come on up, sir, and you've got within... Yeah, that mic should work just fine right
[01:00:17.120 --> 01:00:18.120]  there.
[01:00:18.120 --> 01:00:19.120]  Very good.
[01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:20.120]  Thank you.
[01:00:20.120 --> 01:00:21.120]  First off, my name's Stuart.
[01:00:21.120 --> 01:00:22.120]  I'm an alcoholic.
[01:00:22.120 --> 01:00:23.120]  Hello, Stuart.
[01:00:23.120 --> 01:00:24.120]  Hello, Stuart.
[01:00:24.120 --> 01:00:31.680]  And having been sober 28 years and having had a grandmother run over by a drunk driver,
[01:00:31.680 --> 01:00:38.400]  I can very much empathize with the passion of mothers against drunk drivers and the concern
[01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.280]  of the community.
[01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:44.640]  Everybody wants somebody that's smashed behind the wheel.
[01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:52.560]  Now, my problem though is the guy that ran over my grandmother had two previous DUIs
[01:00:52.560 --> 01:00:53.560]  with accidents.
[01:00:53.560 --> 01:00:58.000]  The problem is the court system, in my opinion.
[01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:05.280]  And what I'd like to see... Okay, I haven't touched alcohol or drugs in 28 years.
[01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:11.160]  I've worked in inner city drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs of all different kinds
[01:01:11.160 --> 01:01:15.240]  in New York City, Los Angeles, Dallas, and a little bit dabbled in Austin.
[01:01:15.240 --> 01:01:18.240]  You're going to get to your questions, Stuart.
[01:01:18.240 --> 01:01:19.240]  Okay.
[01:01:19.240 --> 01:01:25.200]  So if I'm at a stop and I'm getting pulled over and they want to draw my blood, I am
[01:01:25.200 --> 01:01:27.520]  not going to submit to it.
[01:01:27.520 --> 01:01:28.520]  No.
[01:01:28.520 --> 01:01:33.000]  So your question is... So what happens to me when I say, no, I will
[01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:34.000]  not?
[01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:35.000]  Is this just for the chief or is this for everyone?
[01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:38.320]  For... Well, I mean, that's a process question for
[01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:39.320]  me.
[01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:40.320]  I guess it's the chief.
[01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:41.320]  Okay.
[01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:42.320]  Thank you.
[01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:47.440]  If you are read the implied consent law and you refuse on a no refusal weekend, what we
[01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:53.600]  do is we write up a probable cause affidavit for a search warrant, which we've done... How
[01:01:53.600 --> 01:01:54.840]  many have we had so far, guys?
[01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:55.840]  I don't remember the number.
[01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:56.840]  Any search warrant?
[01:01:56.840 --> 01:01:57.840]  Fifty-four.
[01:01:57.840 --> 01:01:58.840]  Huh?
[01:01:58.840 --> 01:01:59.840]  Fifty, I think.
[01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:05.040]  Sixty-eight on a no refusal weekend, and when we get the court order, we take you to the
[01:02:05.040 --> 01:02:06.960]  facility and then we just obtain the blood.
[01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:10.880]  No, we have not had anybody sit up and fight us to not give the blood.
[01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:11.880]  Okay.
[01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:15.800]  They will have to physically restrain me to get my blood, and I haven't touched drugs
[01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:16.800]  or alcohol in 28 years.
[01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:17.800]  I don't want that.
[01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:18.800]  Okay.
[01:02:18.800 --> 01:02:26.800]  Chief, I think the question was, if somebody were to refuse all the way, would you forcibly
[01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.800]  take somebody's blood?
[01:02:27.800 --> 01:02:30.400]  No, we would not forcibly take somebody's blood.
[01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:31.400]  We would not use force.
[01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:35.120]  Except for the force you're allowed to use.
[01:02:35.120 --> 01:02:44.080]  The only thing that we have in our policy is a soft restraint on the arm when they're
[01:02:44.080 --> 01:02:45.080]  sitting down.
[01:02:45.080 --> 01:02:46.080]  No.
[01:02:46.080 --> 01:02:47.080]  No.
[01:02:47.080 --> 01:02:49.880]  You restrain a person who doesn't drink and require them to give blood, you'll have a
[01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:51.880]  fight on your hands and you'll lose it.
[01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:58.880]  Okay, so let's go to a two-card question.
[01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:01.280]  This is specifically for Chief Acevedo.
[01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:04.600]  What would keep corrupt cops from tainting the blood?
[01:03:04.600 --> 01:03:05.600]  Chief.
[01:03:05.600 --> 01:03:12.360]  Well, first of all, there's a chain of evidence on all of our evidence that we take.
[01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:16.280]  The blood now, no matter who takes it, that police officer takes possession and takes
[01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:20.800]  it to a booking facility and books it into the evidence.
[01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:24.960]  In terms of the actual, the case that you brought up, I think it was Schumer, which
[01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:32.480]  case you remember, where I would want a camera in there so people can see, it can be videotaped,
[01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:38.920]  how we obtained the blood evidence, what force was used, which is going to be none, and obviously
[01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:42.680]  if somebody refuses, then it's an additional charge of refusing the force.
[01:03:42.680 --> 01:03:47.640]  So you're confident that there's no chance of being tainted, that the process is rock
[01:03:47.640 --> 01:03:48.720]  solid, that there's...
[01:03:48.720 --> 01:03:54.880]  I am confident that the procedures we have in place are appropriate, they're consistent
[01:03:54.880 --> 01:04:00.000]  with the statutory requirements, but I've been a cop for 23 years and I would never
[01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:02.840]  say 100% you're going to have a problem ever.
[01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:03.840]  Okay.
[01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:04.840]  Okay.
[01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:05.840]  Okay, sir, you're next.
[01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:06.840]  Please keep your questions concise, guys.
[01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:07.840]  We appreciate it.
[01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:08.840]  We keep them concise.
[01:04:08.840 --> 01:04:09.840]  This is the Fourth Amendment.
[01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:16.320]  The right of the people to be secure against their persons, houses, papers, effects, and
[01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:23.680]  blood against unreasonable searches shall not be violated, Fifth Amendment, nor shall
[01:04:23.680 --> 01:04:29.080]  anybody in a criminal case be compelled to give evidence against themself.
[01:04:29.080 --> 01:04:33.520]  Now I understand that you're bloodthirsty.
[01:04:33.520 --> 01:04:40.120]  I understand that your police state that you're a part of is sending our young men to Afghanistan
[01:04:40.120 --> 01:04:43.200]  and Iraq to be slaughtered.
[01:04:43.200 --> 01:04:44.200]  What's your question?
[01:04:44.200 --> 01:04:46.640]  I understand that.
[01:04:46.640 --> 01:04:54.680]  I understand that when your superiors ordered the destruction of the Twin Towers.
[01:04:54.680 --> 01:04:55.680]  What's your question?
[01:04:55.680 --> 01:04:56.680]  3,000 people were killed.
[01:04:56.680 --> 01:04:57.680]  Do you have a question?
[01:04:57.680 --> 01:05:05.160]  Get to your question or else we got to ask you to take off, so come on.
[01:05:05.160 --> 01:05:13.160]  The question is, was that not enough to slake your bloodthirst and to quench your unnatural
[01:05:13.160 --> 01:05:20.800]  vampirish, bloodthirsty appetite for death and everything else in this country, by the
[01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:21.800]  way?
[01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:22.800]  Okay, we got it.
[01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:23.800]  We got it.
[01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:24.800]  What's your question for?
[01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:27.000]  You need to ask a question, sir.
[01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:28.000]  Ask a question.
[01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:29.000]  What's my question?
[01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:31.000]  Ask a question that has to do with this forum, sir.
[01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:32.000]  We got it.
[01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:33.000]  That's a minute.
[01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:34.000]  That's it.
[01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:35.000]  The question is.
[01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:36.000]  Thank you.
[01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:37.000]  What's the next question, David?
[01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:44.760]  The question is, do you think that free people in this country are going to submit to a gang
[01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:45.760]  of thugs.
[01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:46.760]  No.
[01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:47.760]  Thank you.
[01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:50.520]  Pulling people over on the highway, declaring that they're drunk.
[01:05:50.520 --> 01:05:51.520]  Okay.
[01:05:51.520 --> 01:05:52.520]  We're all set.
[01:05:52.520 --> 01:05:53.520]  We got it.
[01:05:53.520 --> 01:06:00.440]  Personally, I don't drink whatsoever, and if you pull me over, I do drive, but I don't
[01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:01.440]  drink.
[01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:02.440]  Come on.
[01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:03.440]  We're all set.
[01:06:03.440 --> 01:06:07.360]  I'm going to sit and kneel in my arm and expect blood.
[01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:08.360]  Well, I'm not finished.
[01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:09.360]  There's going to be a fight.
[01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:10.360]  Okay, sir.
[01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:11.360]  Thank you.
[01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:12.360]  Thank you.
[01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:13.360]  Thank you very much.
[01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:14.360]  Okay.
[01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:15.360]  Okay, guys.
[01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:16.360]  Here's the next question.
[01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:17.360]  What is the procedure?
[01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:27.040]  What is the procedure for destroying a blood sample if someone is not found guilty?
[01:06:27.040 --> 01:06:31.560]  Will all info derived from the blood sample be expunged from the databases, chief?
[01:06:31.560 --> 01:06:37.080]  Yes, the sample does have to be destroyed, and by the way, this is not DNA.
[01:06:37.080 --> 01:06:43.520]  We do not take any DNA samples or process blood alcohol vials for DNA.
[01:06:43.520 --> 01:06:47.840]  It will all be destroyed, and the first question was, what is the procedure for destroying
[01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:49.720]  a blood sample if someone is found guilty?
[01:06:49.720 --> 01:06:51.760]  That I don't know off the top of my head.
[01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:52.760]  I'm sorry.
[01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:54.640]  If someone is found not guilty.
[01:06:54.640 --> 01:06:56.960]  I'm not sure how the lab does the actual process.
[01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:00.480]  I'm going to chime in on that one.
[01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:05.800]  If you collect a sample, you destroy the sample, our government, in many instances, even with
[01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:10.920]  every single infant now born, is keeping on file the actual genetic code.
[01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:15.440]  Now, chief, if we can get your word, if this program were to go through while we're still
[01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:19.280]  taking blood, regardless if the police are doing it, can we have your word that the Austin
[01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.960]  Police Department will not take that DNA sample and say, perhaps, push it on to the fusion
[01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:29.320]  center, and they will destroy not only the sample, but the actual genetic digital code?
[01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:32.960]  Better yet, can we see that in policy?
[01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:49.480]  When we draw blood for DWI, we screen it for alcohol and drugs, we obtain the results,
[01:07:49.480 --> 01:07:54.800]  and then once the case is done, it will be destroyed, and we will not be sharing that
[01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:59.480]  with anybody, unless we have a court order from somebody, where we're...
[01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:01.360]  Okay, so chief is saying it's going to be destroyed, that's his answer.
[01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:02.360]  Let's keep going.
[01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:03.360]  Next person there.
[01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:04.360]  I share a lot of your concerns.
[01:08:04.360 --> 01:08:05.360]  Okay, guys, let the person ask the question.
[01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:06.360]  Go ahead.
[01:08:06.360 --> 01:08:07.360]  Hi.
[01:08:07.360 --> 01:08:08.360]  Good evening, panel.
[01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:09.360]  Thank you for coming.
[01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:10.360]  My name is George Lobb.
[01:08:10.360 --> 01:08:15.120]  I'm a criminal defense attorney here in Austin, and this question is for Chief Acevedo and
[01:08:15.120 --> 01:08:17.120]  also for Councilperson Martinez.
[01:08:17.120 --> 01:08:19.400]  First, a little bit of background.
[01:08:19.400 --> 01:08:22.360]  As a defense attorney and as a taxpayer, I kind of have this...
[01:08:22.360 --> 01:08:23.360]  Have you already done these?
[01:08:23.360 --> 01:08:28.320]  I have this image in my mind that I want tax money used properly and efficiently, and then
[01:08:28.320 --> 01:08:33.280]  the same time as a defense attorney, I'm seeing all these ways that I can defeat blood tests
[01:08:33.280 --> 01:08:34.280]  in court.
[01:08:34.280 --> 01:08:40.240]  So, over here, I've got me as the taxpayer wanting efficient tax money, or tax money
[01:08:40.240 --> 01:08:41.240]  used efficiently.
[01:08:41.240 --> 01:08:47.720]  And then over here, I've got me as the criminal defense attorney saying, there's so many complexities
[01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:52.920]  in blood tests that I can defeat it at each point and gain an acquittal or suppression,
[01:08:52.920 --> 01:08:54.880]  especially if it's a warrant.
[01:08:54.880 --> 01:09:00.520]  So my question is this, given that kind of schizophrenic mind that I have right now as
[01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:06.340]  a taxpayer and defense attorney, don't you think you could use this money or at least
[01:09:06.340 --> 01:09:12.160]  ask for different grant programs towards education or other programs that might prevent people
[01:09:12.160 --> 01:09:14.560]  from getting in the car in the first place and becoming my client?
[01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:15.560]  This is for the Chief.
[01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:16.560]  This is the special...
[01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:17.560]  Can I finish my question?
[01:09:17.560 --> 01:09:18.560]  Sure.
[01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:20.720]  It's for the Chief and also for Councilperson Martinez.
[01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:26.200]  The question is this, wouldn't you think that tax money could be better used for prevention
[01:09:26.200 --> 01:09:32.000]  and education to keep people from becoming my clients in the first place?
[01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:35.800]  Michael, start.
[01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:42.080]  Obviously, the answer is yes, but I'll go a step further.
[01:09:42.080 --> 01:09:47.360]  One of the things that Councilmember Morris and I are working on is to ensure that any
[01:09:47.360 --> 01:09:52.040]  grants that the police department or any other department within the city, for that matter,
[01:09:52.040 --> 01:09:59.880]  that are applied for and sought, don't constitute policy shifts that are already in place.
[01:09:59.880 --> 01:10:03.000]  What happens with some of the grants that we go after is that they're tied to a program
[01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:08.380]  and they're tied to a pilot project or some program that requires a policy shift in order
[01:10:08.380 --> 01:10:10.840]  to achieve the funding.
[01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:13.720]  So what we're trying to do is make sure that that goes through a process.
[01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:15.880]  It doesn't mean it can't continue to happen.
[01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:20.200]  It just goes through a public input process so that we know what grants are being applied
[01:10:20.200 --> 01:10:23.600]  for and what potential policy shifts may come with that.
[01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:25.800]  Okay, Chief.
[01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:30.480]  Well, I believe in education and enforcement.
[01:10:30.480 --> 01:10:35.280]  Obviously, we will always pursue as many grants as we can to put on preventative measures.
[01:10:35.280 --> 01:10:38.280]  I absolutely support the Dollar Ride program.
[01:10:38.280 --> 01:10:42.280]  I think it's important for the audience to know that on every weekend when we have a
[01:10:42.280 --> 01:10:47.040]  no refusal weekend, we publicize them all ahead of time so hopefully people will make,
[01:10:47.040 --> 01:10:50.720]  while they're sober, hopefully watching sober, unless they're drunk all the time, better
[01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:51.720]  choices.
[01:10:51.720 --> 01:10:56.160]  Two, we always do the Dollar Ride program and try to make that part of it in conjunction
[01:10:56.160 --> 01:10:57.160]  with the process.
[01:10:57.160 --> 01:11:01.920]  So, yeah, I would support obtaining as much grant funding for...
[01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:06.360]  And the last thing I want to say about the bars, if you've been to Sixth Street at bar
[01:11:06.360 --> 01:11:09.760]  closing, there is a problem with how much alcohol they're serving.
[01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:13.080]  They're over-serving people and one of the things that we're doing now with our code
[01:11:13.080 --> 01:11:18.360]  enforcement is keeping an eye on which are the problem establishments, Council Member,
[01:11:18.360 --> 01:11:22.600]  and we're going to start aggressively going after these people because they're setting
[01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:26.800]  people up for failure, they're setting people up for death, and they're setting people up
[01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:28.360]  to go to jail or the more.
[01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:29.360]  Okay.
[01:11:29.360 --> 01:11:33.880]  This question, I understand, came from a seventh grader, is that right?
[01:11:33.880 --> 01:11:34.880]  Okay.
[01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:35.880]  Oh, from...
[01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:36.880]  I don't know.
[01:11:36.880 --> 01:11:37.880]  Should I read his name or...
[01:11:37.880 --> 01:11:38.880]  I don't know if I want to...
[01:11:38.880 --> 01:11:39.880]  Maybe it's a little kid.
[01:11:39.880 --> 01:11:45.360]  But anyway, this is from a seventh grader, so, what if the person getting blood drawn
[01:11:45.360 --> 01:11:49.880]  is scared of needles and they're drunk and they go crazy?
[01:11:49.880 --> 01:11:54.520]  So basically, if they're afraid of needles, that's a very real fear and they're drunk
[01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:55.520]  and they make...
[01:11:55.520 --> 01:11:59.080]  I mean, so what if the person is scared of needles, Chief?
[01:11:59.080 --> 01:12:03.480]  Well, they go berserk and they start fighting, we're obviously not going to be taking a blood
[01:12:03.480 --> 01:12:04.480]  sample from them.
[01:12:04.480 --> 01:12:05.480]  Really?
[01:12:05.480 --> 01:12:06.480]  There's our app.
[01:12:06.480 --> 01:12:07.480]  We're not going to fight you.
[01:12:07.480 --> 01:12:10.480]  But wait a minute, don't get excited.
[01:12:10.480 --> 01:12:11.480]  You know what's really...
[01:12:11.480 --> 01:12:12.480]  That's what we want.
[01:12:12.480 --> 01:12:15.480]  Then why do you have the straps on the chairs?
[01:12:15.480 --> 01:12:18.680]  If somebody's squirming, you want to make sure they don't come up and punch you.
[01:12:18.680 --> 01:12:19.680]  Okay.
[01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:21.680]  So what does it say, squirming and fighting?
[01:12:21.680 --> 01:12:22.680]  You don't know the...
[01:12:22.680 --> 01:12:24.680]  I'm not going to define it for you, squirming and fighting.
[01:12:24.680 --> 01:12:28.160]  But if they're going crazy, you're saying that if we're going crazy, you're not going
[01:12:28.160 --> 01:12:29.160]  to...
[01:12:29.160 --> 01:12:30.160]  We're not going to rush to the ground and punch you.
[01:12:30.160 --> 01:12:31.160]  Take a blood sample from them.
[01:12:31.160 --> 01:12:32.160]  Okay.
[01:12:32.160 --> 01:12:34.240]  But just remember now, let me just add this.
[01:12:34.240 --> 01:12:37.440]  What I think is kind of ironic is the people in this audience, I don't think whoever sees
[01:12:37.440 --> 01:12:42.680]  you drunk driving, to be real frank with you, I just have a feeling that's the case here.
[01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:44.440]  But here's the...
[01:12:44.440 --> 01:12:47.240]  We would not fight somebody and use force.
[01:12:47.240 --> 01:12:53.200]  But if there's a court order, if there is an actual church warrant, there would be additional
[01:12:53.200 --> 01:12:54.200]  charges.
[01:12:54.200 --> 01:12:55.200]  Okay.
[01:12:55.200 --> 01:12:56.200]  Next question.
[01:12:56.200 --> 01:13:06.800]  My name is Randall Kelton, I do a radio show here in Austin on legal reform.
[01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:22.600]  My concern is that this is all much ado about nothing since in Texas, as the police department
[01:13:22.600 --> 01:13:30.800]  just verified, the average conviction rate is 99%, actually it's 99.6.
[01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:37.840]  So the police are doing a ample job of bringing in drunk drivers.
[01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:42.760]  But they keep getting them back, not because the police aren't doing their job and aren't
[01:13:42.760 --> 01:13:44.360]  getting enough evidence.
[01:13:44.360 --> 01:13:49.680]  They're getting them back because the courts are selling them away, the prosecutor is dealing
[01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:51.160]  them back on the streets.
[01:13:51.160 --> 01:13:53.160]  It's all about dollar flow.
[01:13:53.160 --> 01:13:57.640]  Our officers are doing their jobs.
[01:13:57.640 --> 01:13:58.640]  What's your question?
[01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:08.680]  And they're getting plenty of arrests, so what can you do to stop the prosecutors from
[01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:12.600]  dealing everything away to nothing?
[01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:18.160]  And in the process, convicting everybody that walks in the door so that nobody trusts the
[01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:21.960]  police or the courts or anyone.
[01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:24.840]  We have with no trust...
[01:14:24.840 --> 01:14:25.840]  That's your question.
[01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:27.120]  Is that for the chief?
[01:14:27.120 --> 01:14:28.120]  What can you do?
[01:14:28.120 --> 01:14:33.080]  Because do you have anything that you can do to straighten out the court system?
[01:14:33.080 --> 01:14:34.640]  Is that for everyone?
[01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:35.640]  For everyone.
[01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:36.640]  For everyone.
[01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:37.640]  Okay.
[01:14:37.640 --> 01:14:38.640]  You want to start with Debbie?
[01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:39.640]  We'll go right down.
[01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:40.640]  No?
[01:14:40.640 --> 01:14:41.640]  I'm not a lawyer.
[01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:42.640]  I don't really have that course.
[01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:47.760]  But I mean, from the ACLU standpoint, we work at a legal, legislative and a public education
[01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:48.760]  perspective.
[01:14:48.760 --> 01:14:52.560]  So we would have to gather together and see what we could come up with.
[01:14:52.560 --> 01:14:53.560]  Okay.
[01:14:53.560 --> 01:14:54.560]  Karen, any thoughts on...
[01:14:54.560 --> 01:15:00.760]  This is a court monitoring program in which we train volunteers on what happens or what
[01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:03.520]  is meant to happen in the courtroom.
[01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:07.920]  And certainly, if anybody here is interested in volunteering as a court monitor, the intent
[01:15:07.920 --> 01:15:15.760]  is to sit in on this demeanor, DWI trials, and track what happens and what doesn't happen.
[01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:22.280]  And we have a database that goes across the country on what is going on in DWI trials.
[01:15:22.280 --> 01:15:28.200]  And the idea, of course, is that with somebody present in the courtroom, a monitor, that
[01:15:28.200 --> 01:15:30.520]  the judges, the whole system works more effectively.
[01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:31.520]  Okay.
[01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:32.520]  Mike?
[01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:33.520]  I think this is probably the best question of the night.
[01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:34.520]  There are three things you can do.
[01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:39.760]  You can hold forums for folks running for office, then you can register to vote, then
[01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:40.760]  you can go vote.
[01:15:40.760 --> 01:15:41.760]  There you go.
[01:15:41.760 --> 01:15:42.760]  Those are the things you can do.
[01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:43.760]  All right.
[01:15:43.760 --> 01:15:44.760]  Thank you, man.
[01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:45.760]  John?
[01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:46.760]  Any thoughts?
[01:15:46.760 --> 01:15:50.480]  I think it's obvious that the judicial system in the United States is bogged down severely.
[01:15:50.480 --> 01:15:55.320]  Where we get into these intricate DWI laws that further bogs it down and allows, does
[01:15:55.320 --> 01:16:00.960]  not allow the opportunity for the courts to spend their time focusing on more severe crimes.
[01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:06.100]  I believe that if we were to follow through with a program that is preventative in nature,
[01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:09.960]  we would not even get to the point where the prosecutor gets an opportunity to convict someone.
[01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:15.000]  I believe if it were I, and I had a few beers to drink, and I was offered the opportunity
[01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:20.280]  to take a taxi cab ride home at a discounted rate, I would take the taxi, never even given
[01:16:20.280 --> 01:16:24.000]  the opportunity to drive drunk and in turn bog the court system down.
[01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:25.000]  Okay.
[01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:26.000]  Thanks, John.
[01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:30.760]  Well, I want to echo what the council members said.
[01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:34.600]  I think it's important that in all of you, I want to commend you, whether you agree with
[01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:35.600]  my position or not.
[01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:38.840]  I think that in this country, it's important for people to weigh in.
[01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:43.080]  It's important for people to engage their government.
[01:16:43.080 --> 01:16:44.320]  That's why I'm here.
[01:16:44.320 --> 01:16:46.360]  Whether you're my biggest critic or my biggest fan-
[01:16:46.360 --> 01:16:47.360]  I'm going.
[01:16:47.360 --> 01:16:48.360]  Pardon me?
[01:16:48.360 --> 01:16:49.360]  Who said that?
[01:16:49.360 --> 01:16:50.360]  I didn't hear it.
[01:16:50.360 --> 01:16:51.360]  I'm sorry.
[01:16:51.360 --> 01:16:52.360]  I didn't hear it.
[01:16:52.360 --> 01:16:53.360]  We're making good service.
[01:16:53.360 --> 01:16:56.680]  He said, go back to Cali, but I want the chief to stay right here because he has agreed to
[01:16:56.680 --> 01:16:57.680]  sit down in his open floor.
[01:16:57.680 --> 01:16:58.680]  We all appreciate that.
[01:16:58.680 --> 01:16:59.680]  Be kind here tonight.
[01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:00.680]  These are the lines then.
[01:17:00.680 --> 01:17:01.680]  Let those guys be respectful.
[01:17:01.680 --> 01:17:02.680]  All right.
[01:17:02.680 --> 01:17:09.680]  But I'd like to just finish with, I think it's you, he hit, where is that?
[01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:11.480]  Man, you hit it on the head.
[01:17:11.480 --> 01:17:16.640]  You've got to monitor what is going on in the courts, what the prosecutors are doing,
[01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:22.120]  what the city county attorney's doing, because at the end of the day, we make arrests, but
[01:17:22.120 --> 01:17:24.320]  we don't prosecute and we don't make those decisions.
[01:17:24.320 --> 01:17:25.320]  It's in somebody else's hands.
[01:17:25.320 --> 01:17:26.920]  It's completely out of our hands.
[01:17:26.920 --> 01:17:27.920]  And I agree with you.
[01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:31.920]  Sometimes people end up killing somebody because when we had the opportunity to hold them accountable,
[01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:32.920]  we didn't.
[01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:36.360]  And so they ended up going and killing an innocent third person.
[01:17:36.360 --> 01:17:37.360]  Okay.
[01:17:37.360 --> 01:17:38.360]  All right.
[01:17:38.360 --> 01:17:39.360]  Cue card question.
[01:17:39.360 --> 01:17:40.360]  This is for the chief.
[01:17:40.360 --> 01:17:43.360]  Will you use police phlebotomists to test your own police officers for steroids?
[01:17:43.360 --> 01:17:44.360]  Very good question.
[01:17:44.360 --> 01:17:45.360]  Very, very good.
[01:17:45.360 --> 01:17:54.080]  Since they use a 20 to 25% rate in urban cities.
[01:17:54.080 --> 01:18:00.320]  Let me just say, well, first of all, as you can tell from my physique, I do not use steroids
[01:18:00.320 --> 01:18:02.320]  by looking at me.
[01:18:02.320 --> 01:18:09.800]  But we have by contract, and I'm really proud of our association that they, which not every
[01:18:09.800 --> 01:18:14.560]  association agrees with this, but our police officers are subject to random drug testing.
[01:18:14.560 --> 01:18:16.600]  I'm very proud of that.
[01:18:16.600 --> 01:18:19.000]  And we actually have a contract agency.
[01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:25.120]  Again, if I can get seven staff members or seven people that work for the city to be
[01:18:25.120 --> 01:18:28.760]  phlebotomists for us for all these crimes, we can leave the hospitals alone, which is
[01:18:28.760 --> 01:18:29.920]  what Seton Hospital wants.
[01:18:29.920 --> 01:18:34.080]  I've met with them and we can do our jobs and we don't have to have the controversy
[01:18:34.080 --> 01:18:35.080]  of trained police officers.
[01:18:35.080 --> 01:18:37.440]  What I'm trying to get to is a solution.
[01:18:37.440 --> 01:18:39.960]  And I hope that together after this, we can come up with one.
[01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:44.640]  In reality, though, very few steroid tests are done per year in the police department.
[01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:47.240]  I've been here for almost two years, and I can tell you we've...
[01:18:47.240 --> 01:18:48.240]  Just a few.
[01:18:48.240 --> 01:18:49.240]  Just a handful.
[01:18:49.240 --> 01:18:50.240]  Yeah.
[01:18:50.240 --> 01:18:51.240]  Yeah.
[01:18:51.240 --> 01:18:52.240]  So maybe we do more.
[01:18:52.240 --> 01:18:54.640]  Would I use another cop to do it?
[01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:58.240]  I think, actually, that's a contractual issue in my contract.
[01:18:58.240 --> 01:19:02.640]  I'd use anybody if I could, but again, it's the law, and in this case, there's a contract
[01:19:02.640 --> 01:19:05.520]  that has guidelines on who we have to use.
[01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:06.520]  Okay.
[01:19:06.520 --> 01:19:07.520]  We have a question from Mike.
[01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:08.520]  Thank you, David.
[01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:09.520]  Real quick.
[01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:13.000]  Well, I think that steroid use is not the issue.
[01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:15.240]  There is random drug testing in the police department.
[01:19:15.240 --> 01:19:20.880]  If somebody is suspected of using illegal substances, including steroids, that they
[01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:22.840]  can be tested randomly.
[01:19:22.840 --> 01:19:24.800]  So I think it's not an issue.
[01:19:24.800 --> 01:19:25.800]  Okay.
[01:19:25.800 --> 01:19:26.800]  On the mic.
[01:19:26.800 --> 01:19:27.800]  Thank you.
[01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:28.800]  My name is Skip Davis.
[01:19:28.800 --> 01:19:29.800]  I've been around town a little while.
[01:19:29.800 --> 01:19:32.840]  I came here, too, from California 20 years ago.
[01:19:32.840 --> 01:19:37.040]  And I just want to remind Chief Acevedo, I'm sure that you're familiar with a particular
[01:19:37.040 --> 01:19:42.440]  case in which I harbor a great deal of fear from the results of, especially the results
[01:19:42.440 --> 01:19:50.440]  of blood evidence in the hands of police officers, not in a very good or well-controlled environment.
[01:19:50.440 --> 01:19:59.960]  And that antidote that I'll give you is Detective Van Adder's completely polluting the crime
[01:19:59.960 --> 01:20:05.280]  scene with O.J. Simpson's blood, and thereby avoiding what might have been in some people's
[01:20:05.280 --> 01:20:08.120]  eyes a proper conviction.
[01:20:08.120 --> 01:20:12.800]  But that's the kind of thing that I'm worried about as an American who loves the Constitution.
[01:20:12.800 --> 01:20:17.280]  And I understand the Fourth Amendment is to avoid exactly those kinds of policing.
[01:20:17.280 --> 01:20:18.280]  What's your question?
[01:20:18.280 --> 01:20:21.280]  I had just one more thing I wanted to say.
[01:20:21.280 --> 01:20:23.280]  Do you have a question?
[01:20:23.280 --> 01:20:24.280]  I do.
[01:20:24.280 --> 01:20:25.280]  We're talking...
[01:20:25.280 --> 01:20:32.480]  You guys have shifted the discussion from drinking and driving to search warrants.
[01:20:32.480 --> 01:20:34.400]  Search warrants require law.
[01:20:34.400 --> 01:20:38.680]  The law that governs search warrants is probable cause.
[01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:44.960]  Probable cause is established upon reasonable suspicion plus a bunch more other factors,
[01:20:44.960 --> 01:20:47.120]  evidentiary factors.
[01:20:47.120 --> 01:20:54.640]  If somebody simply refuses in a vanilla DWI case, no crash, no injury, didn't use his
[01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:55.760]  turn signal.
[01:20:55.760 --> 01:21:01.080]  If he simply refuses, and you have established reasonable suspicion because you smell the
[01:21:01.080 --> 01:21:09.520]  alcohol on him, his refusal does not give rise to probable cause simply because he disagrees
[01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:12.560]  with participating in an investigation.
[01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:15.160]  He's got a priority test, too.
[01:21:15.160 --> 01:21:16.160]  Well, no, he doesn't.
[01:21:16.160 --> 01:21:17.160]  It says no refusal.
[01:21:17.160 --> 01:21:23.920]  Basically, it means if you take it to its extension, it's a natural logical conclusion.
[01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:29.800]  If I just say no, and I lean up against my car, and the police officer does this, and
[01:21:29.800 --> 01:21:33.120]  I say, I'm not doing it, you've refused.
[01:21:33.120 --> 01:21:34.120]  I'll go get a search warrant.
[01:21:34.120 --> 01:21:35.120]  Can you put this in question?
[01:21:35.120 --> 01:21:36.120]  We've got to keep moving.
[01:21:36.120 --> 01:21:37.120]  This is a question.
[01:21:37.120 --> 01:21:44.920]  Under what circumstances, and it's two-part, under what circumstances in your eyes does
[01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:52.040]  disagreement or refusal to participate give rise to probable cause?
[01:21:52.040 --> 01:21:56.560]  And second, I want to remind everybody that the magistrates are being revalidated in the
[01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:58.120]  next couple of months.
[01:21:58.120 --> 01:22:06.080]  Will you allow the magistrates to actually review the arrest DWI video rather than rely
[01:22:06.080 --> 01:22:10.800]  on the probable cause affidavits that we know are fallacious because we have such a high
[01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:18.480]  number of cases that are tossed out on probable cause at pre-trial, which you are assembling
[01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:19.480]  over.
[01:22:19.480 --> 01:22:20.480]  All right, sir.
[01:22:20.480 --> 01:22:21.480]  You've had the mic for a long time.
[01:22:21.480 --> 01:22:22.480]  Please be fair to all of us.
[01:22:22.480 --> 01:22:23.480]  Good question, though.
[01:22:23.480 --> 01:22:24.480]  Chief, the...
[01:22:24.480 --> 01:22:32.520]  Everyone has a lot of great content back here, but we want to be able to get through a lot
[01:22:32.520 --> 01:22:33.520]  of these questions.
[01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:34.520]  So please respect that.
[01:22:34.520 --> 01:22:35.520]  All right.
[01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:36.520]  I'll try to be brief.
[01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:41.240]  Search warrants, you know, we had one the other day that was, if an officer does not,
[01:22:41.240 --> 01:22:46.800]  when he or she fills out a probable cause affidavit, they cannot articulate probable
[01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:51.120]  cause for a judge, the judge may or may not issue it.
[01:22:51.120 --> 01:22:53.360]  That is totally up to the judge.
[01:22:53.360 --> 01:22:56.600]  Please remember this about search warrants.
[01:22:56.600 --> 01:23:00.920]  If we write a search warrant probable cause affidavit, that search warrant is subject
[01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:02.880]  to judicial review.
[01:23:02.880 --> 01:23:08.280]  If we say A, B, C, and D, and E happened leading up to the arrest and the review of that tape
[01:23:08.280 --> 01:23:14.080]  shows it was only A and B, under suppression, motion to suppress that person's blood alcohol
[01:23:14.080 --> 01:23:18.840]  or blood test will be probably suppressed by the court.
[01:23:18.840 --> 01:23:24.280]  Secondly, if we have cases where our officers are writing in their probable cause affidavit
[01:23:24.280 --> 01:23:30.880]  a set of facts that a review shows is not factual, I'd have a problem with that officer
[01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:37.160]  because if they're being inaccurate or completely misleading, that's a problem because the probable
[01:23:37.160 --> 01:23:41.640]  cause affidavit is provided under penalty of perjury.
[01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:42.640]  Okay.
[01:23:42.640 --> 01:23:44.360]  This question is for the chief.
[01:23:44.360 --> 01:23:52.680]  May we hear the oath of office that you took when you were hired as Austin police chief?
[01:23:52.680 --> 01:24:02.080]  You know, actually it was an extremely long oath.
[01:24:02.080 --> 01:24:09.440]  I'd love to tell you about, I love to read it, but let me just say it includes defend
[01:24:09.440 --> 01:24:15.240]  the constitution of the United States and the law has been, the judges, excuse me, the
[01:24:15.240 --> 01:24:19.280]  courts have been very clear that blood search warrants, the United States Supreme Court
[01:24:19.280 --> 01:24:25.240]  and state of Texas have said that what we're doing is lawful and constitutional.
[01:24:25.240 --> 01:24:26.240]  I'd like to address that.
[01:24:26.240 --> 01:24:29.760]  It was actually the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, which was the final say in Beeman
[01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:34.040]  v. California again, and while I'm not a lawyer, I feel that it's a pretty sufficient argument
[01:24:34.040 --> 01:24:39.800]  that the ninth amendment specifically inhibits the state from using the other enumerated
[01:24:39.800 --> 01:24:43.320]  clauses in the constitution in order to take our rights away.
[01:24:43.320 --> 01:24:47.480]  So while the Texas Criminal Court of Appeals may have ruled that, I think they got it wrong
[01:24:47.480 --> 01:24:48.480]  personally.
[01:24:48.480 --> 01:24:49.480]  Okay.
[01:24:49.480 --> 01:24:56.480]  Next, please keep your question in place.
[01:24:56.480 --> 01:24:57.480]  Howdy.
[01:24:57.480 --> 01:24:58.480]  My name is Josh.
[01:24:58.480 --> 01:25:00.280]  I'm a community organizer here at Austin.
[01:25:00.280 --> 01:25:04.840]  I have a question primarily to the chief, I think he knows it, and for the councilman,
[01:25:04.840 --> 01:25:08.080]  but I'd love to hear from you all.
[01:25:08.080 --> 01:25:09.080]  Here's the deal.
[01:25:09.080 --> 01:25:13.240]  First, I wanted to thank you, Councilman Martinez, because you articulated a problem I've been
[01:25:13.240 --> 01:25:17.640]  having with the police department here, but apparently the race problem is solved, so
[01:25:17.640 --> 01:25:18.640]  it's good we know the progress.
[01:25:18.640 --> 01:25:19.640]  All right.
[01:25:19.640 --> 01:25:20.640]  Now, I'm going to ask a question.
[01:25:20.640 --> 01:25:21.640]  It's going to be concise.
[01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:22.640]  Here's the thing.
[01:25:22.640 --> 01:25:29.940]  I went to a drinking function the other night with an organization called the Fraternal
[01:25:29.940 --> 01:25:30.940]  Order of Police.
[01:25:30.940 --> 01:25:31.940]  Anybody heard of that?
[01:25:31.940 --> 01:25:32.940]  The who?
[01:25:32.940 --> 01:25:38.800]  Now, they were leaving, and I just, I want to know, when they get out there and they're
[01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:43.120]  drinking at their function, how do you make sure the Fraternal Order of Police, they're
[01:25:43.120 --> 01:25:47.160]  checking each other's blood just right, because really, it's been a problem.
[01:25:47.160 --> 01:25:48.920]  Police commit crimes in Austin.
[01:25:48.920 --> 01:25:50.920]  Thank you for pointing it out, Councilman.
[01:25:50.920 --> 01:25:54.680]  There have been prosecutions of police officers, by the way.
[01:25:54.680 --> 01:26:00.280]  Actually, we've had quite a few of our officers over the years arrested for DWI.
[01:26:00.280 --> 01:26:01.280]  And then promoted.
[01:26:01.280 --> 01:26:02.280]  Pardon me?
[01:26:02.280 --> 01:26:03.280]  And then promoted.
[01:26:03.280 --> 01:26:04.280]  Thank you.
[01:26:04.280 --> 01:26:09.280]  Well, we'll talk about that later.
[01:26:09.280 --> 01:26:20.520]  Debbie, you're starting to be a... Let me just say this about... Let me just say this
[01:26:20.520 --> 01:26:24.600]  about cops that drink and drive, and firefighters that drink and drive.
[01:26:24.600 --> 01:26:29.880]  I have a very... I have a strong problem with that, because we know the consequences.
[01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:31.000]  We see it.
[01:26:31.000 --> 01:26:32.560]  It's in our faces.
[01:26:32.560 --> 01:26:38.360]  When you have to carry a little baby, a child, an elderly person, just somebody's life altered.
[01:26:38.360 --> 01:26:43.720]  And so, not only do they have to face criminal prosecution, and they do face it, and we have
[01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:48.360]  a reputation in this state by other cops, don't come and drink and drive in Austin,
[01:26:48.360 --> 01:26:50.600]  because they will not cut you any slack.
[01:26:50.600 --> 01:26:54.200]  And quite frankly, I'm proud of that, because cops should know better, and they make enough
[01:26:54.200 --> 01:26:57.400]  money where they can take a taxi, and we should be leading by example.
[01:26:57.400 --> 01:26:58.400]  Let me ask the chief.
[01:26:58.400 --> 01:27:02.320]  Is there something on the new disciplinary matrix that addresses officers who drink and
[01:27:02.320 --> 01:27:03.640]  drive off duty?
[01:27:03.640 --> 01:27:10.280]  The first offense, if nobody's hurt, the misdemeanor offense, is we're going about 30 days suspension
[01:27:10.280 --> 01:27:15.400]  without pay, in addition to all of the criminal administrative cost.
[01:27:15.400 --> 01:27:19.800]  The second one, I would say more than likely, is going to get you fired.
[01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:20.800]  Thanks.
[01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:32.000]  David, I just, I don't think I need to make this point, but since it keeps coming up,
[01:27:32.000 --> 01:27:36.840]  no one up here suggested that the race problem is solved, but it certainly has improved from
[01:27:36.840 --> 01:27:39.160]  prior to Chief Oscevillo coming here.
[01:27:39.160 --> 01:27:44.400]  So I take exception to somebody taking my words, spinning them as if I'm saying, me
[01:27:44.400 --> 01:27:49.360]  of all people, that the race problem is solved, arguably the most adamant council member on
[01:27:49.360 --> 01:27:51.960]  race issues.
[01:27:51.960 --> 01:27:55.760]  Thank you, Councilman.
[01:27:55.760 --> 01:27:59.440]  This question is for Karen from Mothers Against Trump Driving.
[01:27:59.440 --> 01:28:06.000]  Where are your statistics from, and can TAG get a copy of the statistics?
[01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:09.120]  National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
[01:28:09.120 --> 01:28:10.400]  That's where all of our data comes from.
[01:28:10.400 --> 01:28:12.400]  So it's right off the website?
[01:28:12.400 --> 01:28:14.520]  That's correct.
[01:28:14.520 --> 01:28:18.440]  It's not as clear as it should be, but yeah, it is there.
[01:28:18.440 --> 01:28:20.400]  That's where all the data comes from for the United States.
[01:28:20.400 --> 01:28:21.400]  Next question at the podium.
[01:28:21.400 --> 01:28:22.880]  Thank you for keeping it concise.
[01:28:22.880 --> 01:28:23.880]  Thanks.
[01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:24.880]  My name is Arthur DiPianca.
[01:28:24.880 --> 01:28:29.760]  I work with the Travis County Libertarian Party.
[01:28:29.760 --> 01:28:35.400]  The threat of police harassment is a concern for me, and I want to ask a real specific
[01:28:35.400 --> 01:28:40.880]  question, and I'd like to get hopefully a brief answer from each of you.
[01:28:40.880 --> 01:28:46.360]  If a police officer decides that he wants to perform a forced blood draw, and he gives
[01:28:46.360 --> 01:28:52.680]  his affidavit, and gets his warrant, and administers the forced blood draw, and the test comes
[01:28:52.680 --> 01:28:59.640]  back very low, let's say 0.02, 0.01, or 0, how do you think that police officer should
[01:28:59.640 --> 01:29:04.240]  be punished?
[01:29:04.240 --> 01:29:12.280]  Do you want me to start?
[01:29:12.280 --> 01:29:13.920]  I'm assuming that's the chief, correct?
[01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:14.920]  No, I said it.
[01:29:14.920 --> 01:29:20.960]  Well, let me start off with, first of all, had that person refused, and we didn't have
[01:29:20.960 --> 01:29:24.760]  that evidence to actually show that they were legally, not other than the influence, they
[01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:30.280]  could have very easily been convicted of a crime they did not commit, okay?
[01:29:30.280 --> 01:29:33.560]  So worst case scenario, you just proved somebody's innocence.
[01:29:33.560 --> 01:29:39.760]  The second part is that since I've been here, I've asked to get reports on all of our blood
[01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:42.480]  draws to see what the results are for two reasons.
[01:29:42.480 --> 01:29:46.720]  Number one, if an officer is consistently arresting people, and they're coming back
[01:29:46.720 --> 01:29:53.280]  extremely low, or double watts, you know, with no alcohol and no drugs, one of two things
[01:29:53.280 --> 01:29:54.280]  are happening.
[01:29:54.280 --> 01:29:58.680]  An officer needs additional training, or we need to take a look at how they're calling
[01:29:58.680 --> 01:30:02.680]  the calls, because they may be making attitude arrests, or who knows what's going on, but
[01:30:02.680 --> 01:30:07.660]  I will tell you, since I've been here, we have to look at those reports, because I want
[01:30:07.660 --> 01:30:12.320]  to know when we make people, take them to jail, and we take their blood for drunk driving,
[01:30:12.320 --> 01:30:16.440]  if they're coming back.00, because it's one of two things, one of several things.
[01:30:16.440 --> 01:30:20.560]  It's either a combination with drugs, to an officer that needs training, which more than
[01:30:20.560 --> 01:30:24.760]  likely, that would be it, but I want to make sure that we are not arresting people that
[01:30:24.760 --> 01:30:28.360]  should not be arrested, and that's something I've instituted since I've been here before
[01:30:28.360 --> 01:30:29.360]  we've been started this program.
[01:30:29.360 --> 01:30:30.360]  All right.
[01:30:30.360 --> 01:30:31.360]  Next question.
[01:30:31.360 --> 01:30:32.360]  Can I address that one?
[01:30:32.360 --> 01:30:35.360]  I think he wanted us all to get a brief answer on that one.
[01:30:35.360 --> 01:30:36.360]  Yes, he did.
[01:30:36.360 --> 01:30:37.360]  I'll start with that.
[01:30:37.360 --> 01:30:40.100]  I'll let Mr. Justice Fortes do the talking for me.
[01:30:40.100 --> 01:30:44.920]  He was one of the Supreme Court justices that dissented in the Schmerber v. California case.
[01:30:44.920 --> 01:30:48.960]  He says, I would reverse, in my view, petitioner's privilege against self-incrimination applies.
[01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:53.280]  I would add that under the due process clause, the state, in its role as prosecutor, has
[01:30:53.280 --> 01:30:58.000]  no right to extract blood from an accused or anyone else over his protest.
[01:30:58.000 --> 01:31:01.920]  The prosecutor, the state, has no right to commit any kind of violence upon the person
[01:31:01.920 --> 01:31:04.840]  or to utilize the results of such a tort.
[01:31:04.840 --> 01:31:07.440]  Extraction of blood over protest is an act of violence.
[01:31:07.440 --> 01:31:11.320]  We still have due process in this country, and if I am innocent until proven guilty,
[01:31:11.320 --> 01:31:20.320]  you cannot punish me by puncturing my body and taking my most sacred lifeblood.
[01:31:20.320 --> 01:31:35.440]  Again, I do believe there's accountability issues, and I think just as in any other use
[01:31:35.440 --> 01:31:38.480]  of force case, there has to be accountability.
[01:31:38.480 --> 01:31:47.360]  If officers are repeatedly forcing folks to do blood draws and they are repeatedly not
[01:31:47.360 --> 01:31:50.880]  reaching the level of constituting a crime, there has to be accountability.
[01:31:50.880 --> 01:31:51.880]  Darren?
[01:31:51.880 --> 01:31:58.280]  I would agree with that, but if we're talking about a one-case scenario, disciplining a
[01:31:58.280 --> 01:32:03.720]  police officer for believing that somebody was drunk and taking a test and coming out
[01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:06.280]  below the.08, I don't think there should be any punishment.
[01:32:06.280 --> 01:32:13.000]  There could be drugs in the system other than alcohol, so I obviously don't think there
[01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:14.000]  should be any punishment.
[01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:16.880]  Can I just add one thing real briefly?
[01:32:16.880 --> 01:32:22.560]  Every single one of the results have been over the limit, with the exception of one
[01:32:22.560 --> 01:32:24.560]  or two now, and that was...
[01:32:24.560 --> 01:32:25.560]  That's too many, Chief.
[01:32:25.560 --> 01:32:26.560]  Excuse me.
[01:32:26.560 --> 01:32:27.560]  Wait a minute.
[01:32:27.560 --> 01:32:28.560]  Let me finish, though.
[01:32:28.560 --> 01:32:33.200]  One was a person out of a crash that was a.07 three hours later, and the legal limit
[01:32:33.200 --> 01:32:37.120]  is.08, and the other one was a person that was under the combined influence.
[01:32:37.120 --> 01:32:43.680]  I think it was a.07, that was under the combined influence of alcohol and cocaine, so it was
[01:32:43.680 --> 01:32:44.680]  a synergistic effect.
[01:32:44.680 --> 01:32:45.680]  What?
[01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:46.680]  No cocaine.
[01:32:46.680 --> 01:32:53.680]  It's not just a test for BAC, it's also a test for any drug that's in your system, and
[01:32:53.680 --> 01:32:55.520]  it will prosecute.
[01:32:55.520 --> 01:32:57.800]  The sad part is that I made that arrest.
[01:32:57.800 --> 01:33:01.360]  I'm the old guy that actually found the guy drunk driving, and he gets out.
[01:33:01.360 --> 01:33:04.800]  I want to be honest with you, I've been snorting some coke, hits out some coke, who's extremely
[01:33:04.800 --> 01:33:08.040]  honest, very transparent guy, but that didn't help him.
[01:33:08.040 --> 01:33:09.040]  He was arrested that evening.
[01:33:09.040 --> 01:33:10.040]  How will you do that?
[01:33:10.040 --> 01:33:11.040]  All right.
[01:33:11.040 --> 01:33:12.040]  Those are the two that have come out.
[01:33:12.040 --> 01:33:13.040]  Let me...
[01:33:13.040 --> 01:33:14.040]  Two fires.
[01:33:14.040 --> 01:33:15.040]  There's been two to three times over the limit.
[01:33:15.040 --> 01:33:17.400]  Let Debbie go ahead and comment on them.
[01:33:17.400 --> 01:33:21.920]  On that point, actually, most of the people on the blood drug weekends, on the noversusel
[01:33:21.920 --> 01:33:24.400]  weekends, have been two to three times over the limit.
[01:33:24.400 --> 01:33:28.000]  To me, it's not worth the time and effort to collect the blood evidence if you have
[01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:30.680]  the video evidence of them being that slosh.
[01:33:30.680 --> 01:33:41.760]  The second point we haven't touched on, which I think that question was insinuating, was
[01:33:41.760 --> 01:33:46.880]  racial profiling issues, which again, the chief has come in and instituted a lot of
[01:33:46.880 --> 01:33:49.000]  accountability within the department.
[01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:53.280]  One thing we haven't truly looked at yet, which I know we will in the future, is the
[01:33:53.280 --> 01:33:55.480]  racial profiling by officer.
[01:33:55.480 --> 01:34:00.960]  And so if we start to find, and we start to find those numbers that officers are taking
[01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:06.680]  down three or four times as many black people as white people on the same charges, when
[01:34:06.680 --> 01:34:12.200]  we have a 9% African American population, then we need to look very carefully at each
[01:34:12.200 --> 01:34:14.880]  individual officer and hold them accountable.
[01:34:14.880 --> 01:34:19.880]  And if we need to look bigger at the bigger picture, we may make further changes at the
[01:34:19.880 --> 01:34:20.880]  department.
[01:34:20.880 --> 01:34:21.880]  Sure.
[01:34:21.880 --> 01:34:22.880]  Okay.
[01:34:22.880 --> 01:34:30.640]  Just a quick time check, we've got about a half an hour left that we're going through.
[01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:34.080]  We got a cue card when it's next, so we'll...
[01:34:34.080 --> 01:34:35.080]  Yep.
[01:34:35.080 --> 01:34:36.080]  All right.
[01:34:36.080 --> 01:34:40.800]  So this question is, if Austin citizens don't want the blood draws, will you listen?
[01:34:40.800 --> 01:34:44.800]  And this is for Art, Mike, and John, and basically to the question, if the citizens of Austin
[01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:49.040]  don't want this, if it's obvious that the majority of Austin doesn't want this, which
[01:34:49.040 --> 01:34:51.200]  if you look at this tonight, make your decision.
[01:34:51.200 --> 01:34:54.160]  But if the citizens of Austin don't want it, are we going to go forward with it?
[01:34:54.160 --> 01:34:56.280]  Again, this question is for Art, Mike, and John.
[01:34:56.280 --> 01:35:00.640]  Well, actually, there's 750,000 people in the city of Austin, and I don't think that
[01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:01.640]  they're all here tonight.
[01:35:01.640 --> 01:35:07.200]  Quite frankly, our job in law enforcement is to enforce the law and to make sure we're
[01:35:07.200 --> 01:35:08.680]  doing it constitutionally.
[01:35:08.680 --> 01:35:14.840]  I don't think that we have the ability to go out and take a vote on it, and I don't
[01:35:14.840 --> 01:35:15.840]  think that would be wise actually.
[01:35:15.840 --> 01:35:16.840]  Okay.
[01:35:16.840 --> 01:35:19.840]  But I want to add one last thing to the issue.
[01:35:19.840 --> 01:35:25.880]  When a representative is going to, have you noticed who refuses, quite frankly?
[01:35:25.880 --> 01:35:27.400]  You talk about race.
[01:35:27.400 --> 01:35:33.840]  The people that don't have the money to hire good attorneys or don't have the education
[01:35:33.840 --> 01:35:37.400]  to fight something in court end up getting convicted.
[01:35:37.400 --> 01:35:42.400]  The one thing I do like about this program is that whether you're rich or you're poor,
[01:35:42.400 --> 01:35:46.720]  everybody's being treated the same and being held to the same level of accountability.
[01:35:46.720 --> 01:35:47.720]  All right.
[01:35:47.720 --> 01:35:48.720]  John?
[01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:53.360]  Yes, that's a very excellent question, and it's exactly the goal of Texans for Accountable
[01:35:53.360 --> 01:35:54.360]  Government.
[01:35:54.360 --> 01:36:00.480]  We hope to utilize the city council as a legislative body, unlike the unelected chief of police,
[01:36:00.480 --> 01:36:06.200]  to effectively prohibit the act of police blood withdrawals in the city of Austin.
[01:36:06.200 --> 01:36:09.400]  And I would like to take this opportunity to ask Council Member Martinez if he would
[01:36:09.400 --> 01:36:14.720]  be in support of the city council resolution specifically prohibiting the action of police
[01:36:14.720 --> 01:36:15.720]  blood withdrawals in Austin.
[01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:19.880]  You can answer that, Mike, and I'll answer the other question here.
[01:36:19.880 --> 01:36:24.400]  Well, obviously, my position is pretty clear that I have a lot of questions about it.
[01:36:24.400 --> 01:36:28.520]  I would have to take a look at the specific proposal that John is referring to.
[01:36:28.520 --> 01:36:31.360]  This is not your question to answer.
[01:36:31.360 --> 01:36:32.360]  It's mine.
[01:36:32.360 --> 01:36:35.360]  Sir, we may have to ask you to leave.
[01:36:35.360 --> 01:36:38.000]  We don't want to do that, so please be respectful.
[01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:41.960]  Not everything that happens in this hall is voted on by the citizens, whether you like
[01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:42.960]  that or not.
[01:36:42.960 --> 01:36:46.720]  I'm not saying it's good, bad, right, or wrong, but where representative democracy
[01:36:46.720 --> 01:36:49.480]  in this council does have the opportunity to take action.
[01:36:49.480 --> 01:36:55.560]  But again, state statute and federal statute allow blood draws, force blood draws.
[01:36:55.560 --> 01:37:00.080]  So regardless of what position this council takes, it's not going to stop it from happening.
[01:37:00.080 --> 01:37:01.080]  I have questions.
[01:37:01.080 --> 01:37:03.560]  I have concerns about no refusal weekends.
[01:37:03.560 --> 01:37:08.240]  I will continue to ask those questions, and I will continue to remain opposed to it until
[01:37:08.240 --> 01:37:10.600]  those questions are answered to my satisfaction.
[01:37:10.600 --> 01:37:11.600]  Okay.
[01:37:11.600 --> 01:37:12.600]  Thank you, Mike.
[01:37:12.600 --> 01:37:17.080]  We have a question here at the podium.
[01:37:17.080 --> 01:37:23.000]  This question is directed to the chief of police and the lady, Mothers Against Drunk
[01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:24.480]  Drivers.
[01:37:24.480 --> 01:37:25.720]  My name is Barry Cooper.
[01:37:25.720 --> 01:37:37.440]  I'm with CopBusters.com and NeverGetBusted.com.
[01:37:37.440 --> 01:37:46.000]  I'm here with my beautiful wife, Candy.
[01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:50.600]  I'm running for attorney general for 2010.
[01:37:50.600 --> 01:37:52.640]  I'm getting the question, sir.
[01:37:52.640 --> 01:37:59.520]  And as your boss in 2010, chief, I'm going to do everything I can to approve every lawsuit
[01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:06.280]  from any citizen suing a police agency for taking blood without their permission.
[01:38:06.280 --> 01:38:13.400]  The question is, as a police officer of eight years, I also worked on DWI task forces, and
[01:38:13.400 --> 01:38:21.640]  I also know the value of a standardized field sobriety test, Texas using the three, horizontal
[01:38:21.640 --> 01:38:26.760]  gaze nystagmus, one leg stand, and heel to toe.
[01:38:26.760 --> 01:38:34.200]  I know how effective that test is in deciding if somebody is too intoxicated to drive.
[01:38:34.200 --> 01:38:40.880]  How is it, since that test absolutely works, do you feel like, and do you feel like you
[01:38:40.880 --> 01:38:47.200]  need more evidence to prove somebody is unsafe to drive?
[01:38:47.200 --> 01:38:54.400]  One other question to the chief.
[01:38:54.400 --> 01:38:58.960]  Do you want me to first answer that question first, or do you want me to first answer it?
[01:38:58.960 --> 01:38:59.960]  Sure.
[01:38:59.960 --> 01:39:02.520]  Quite frankly, it's because when it comes to a jury trial, what that person is going
[01:39:02.520 --> 01:39:07.000]  to argue is that they had a medical condition, and or they're a diabetic coma, they've come
[01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:14.040]  up with some theory of defense, and without that blood evidence, it's a crap shoot, and
[01:39:14.040 --> 01:39:15.040]  we're not going to hold them accountable.
[01:39:15.040 --> 01:39:19.800]  Are you saying the jury process does not work, chief?
[01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:26.080]  I'm saying that we want to utilize lawful means to obtain the best evidence for our
[01:39:26.080 --> 01:39:29.040]  jury so they can make well-informed decisions.
[01:39:29.040 --> 01:39:33.760]  And so if it is a diabetic issue or a medical issue, that we will have evidence of the fact
[01:39:33.760 --> 01:39:37.760]  that that person wasn't under the influence, they had another condition that afflicted
[01:39:37.760 --> 01:39:38.760]  them.
[01:39:38.760 --> 01:39:40.160]  I think Karen was also the one doing it.
[01:39:40.160 --> 01:39:47.080]  Juries look for a, and ask for expect, a breath or blood test result.
[01:39:47.080 --> 01:39:51.360]  The next question, I hear you repeat over and over that you're going to do what the
[01:39:51.360 --> 01:39:58.000]  legislators have said by law you must enforce.
[01:39:58.000 --> 01:40:03.720]  With that principle that you'll enforce the laws that our legislators have handed down
[01:40:03.720 --> 01:40:11.400]  for you to enforce, with that principle in mind, does that mean 50, 100 years ago when
[01:40:11.400 --> 01:40:19.320]  it was a law to beat slaves that escaped, would you obey that law?
[01:40:19.320 --> 01:40:32.480]  I think that, okay, I don't think that there's apples, dough, oranges here.
[01:40:32.480 --> 01:40:39.120]  I find slavery completely abhorrable and I would not participate in that, I go look for
[01:40:39.120 --> 01:40:40.600]  another line of work.
[01:40:40.600 --> 01:40:44.840]  Okay, here's, I mean, I'll put it to you, tomorrow they tell me to go arrest every black
[01:40:44.840 --> 01:40:47.840]  person because they're black or every Hispanic because they're Hispanic.
[01:40:47.840 --> 01:40:55.960]  I'm not there, I'm going to go find another job, at that point it'll be to Congress.
[01:40:55.960 --> 01:41:00.680]  There's an article published in the Austin American States and on March 23rd, 2009 states
[01:41:00.680 --> 01:41:05.760]  a substance, this is quote, a substitute Austin municipal judge declined to sign a search
[01:41:05.760 --> 01:41:11.920]  warrant for the blood of a drunken driving suspect during a no refusal operation last
[01:41:11.920 --> 01:41:15.880]  weekend because he thought officers lack evidence.
[01:41:15.880 --> 01:41:21.400]  This being the first opposition to a warrant, what protocols will be put in place to make
[01:41:21.400 --> 01:41:24.320]  sure sufficient evidence is not manipulated?
[01:41:24.320 --> 01:41:28.680]  Well, we're very fortunate here, is that for me?
[01:41:28.680 --> 01:41:29.680]  Of course.
[01:41:29.680 --> 01:41:36.800]  We're very fortunate that we have video cameras known as police cars, which has in many instances
[01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:42.880]  the driving behavior and the subject's behavior leading up to the arrest and subsequent to
[01:41:42.880 --> 01:41:43.880]  the arrest.
[01:41:43.880 --> 01:41:49.240]  So I think that that's a great tool for accountability purposes for the police department and for
[01:41:49.240 --> 01:41:51.280]  evidentiary purposes as well.
[01:41:51.280 --> 01:41:52.280]  Okay.
[01:41:52.280 --> 01:41:57.960]  David, really quickly, the question was what processes can be put in place?
[01:41:57.960 --> 01:42:03.720]  I met with District Attorney Lindbergh about this specific issue and I asked a simple question.
[01:42:03.720 --> 01:42:08.600]  If a judge refuses to find a search warrant, what precludes the prosecutor from going to
[01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:09.600]  another judge?
[01:42:09.600 --> 01:42:10.600]  The answer is nothing.
[01:42:10.600 --> 01:42:19.400]  And I said, well, what, I guess, what tracking mechanism do you keep for judges that refuse
[01:42:19.400 --> 01:42:20.400]  search warrants?
[01:42:20.400 --> 01:42:21.400]  And the answer is none.
[01:42:21.400 --> 01:42:23.400]  Same at the municipal court level.
[01:42:23.400 --> 01:42:27.400]  I simply believe that we need a tracking mechanism to hold our judges accountable just like we
[01:42:27.400 --> 01:42:29.400]  do anyone else.
[01:42:29.400 --> 01:42:30.400]  Okay.
[01:42:30.400 --> 01:42:34.400]  Next question at the podium.
[01:42:34.400 --> 01:42:38.440]  Hi, my name is Trevor W. Goodchild.
[01:42:38.440 --> 01:42:40.720]  I'm an Austin native, lived my entire life.
[01:42:40.720 --> 01:42:44.120]  If this concerned anyone, it would concern me.
[01:42:44.120 --> 01:42:46.320]  And I'm not even going to get into emotions about how I feel or anything.
[01:42:46.320 --> 01:42:48.040]  I'm going to go straight to the facts.
[01:42:48.040 --> 01:42:51.480]  As I understand, the law cannot be rewritten as it stands now.
[01:42:51.480 --> 01:42:55.160]  It takes a federal car accident where a death is involved or serious injury in order to
[01:42:55.160 --> 01:43:01.760]  mandate a blood draw as per Texas Transportation Code 724.013, which states of a quote unquote
[01:43:01.760 --> 01:43:04.680]  prohibition on taking specimen if a person refuses.
[01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:10.520]  The only exception to this is found under Texas Transportation Code 724.012B, which
[01:43:10.520 --> 01:43:14.760]  states the only way your refusal may be ignored is if, and I quote, an individual has died
[01:43:14.760 --> 01:43:18.120]  or will die or suffered serious bodily injury.
[01:43:18.120 --> 01:43:21.400]  A city council cannot change the law of Texas.
[01:43:21.400 --> 01:43:24.000]  That's why we are left state representative to that.
[01:43:24.000 --> 01:43:27.880]  The approach on breaking this law by APD, as I understand it, is that through obtaining
[01:43:27.880 --> 01:43:31.160]  a search warrant, gotten from a judge, an officer may draw blood from a person in order
[01:43:31.160 --> 01:43:35.000]  to prove they were intoxicated or suspected to be intoxicated.
[01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:38.880]  This is not reasonable for the issue of drunk driving.
[01:43:38.880 --> 01:43:43.280]  When the law says you can't do blood draws, if you refuse, the net law is specific, so
[01:43:43.280 --> 01:43:44.280]  it's controlled.
[01:43:44.280 --> 01:43:49.360]  It cannot be violated even with the search warrant because it's specific.
[01:43:49.360 --> 01:43:54.120]  So my question is, how do you avoid, this goes to everyone, but of course, in particular
[01:43:54.120 --> 01:43:58.160]  the chief, because you're advocating this strongly, but anyone that has input is, how
[01:43:58.160 --> 01:44:02.880]  do you avoid the fact that this is violating Texas law to do force blood draws?
[01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:04.840]  It is violating the statute of Texas law.
[01:44:04.840 --> 01:44:05.840]  How do you, it is.
[01:44:05.840 --> 01:44:10.920]  So how do you justify, even though it's going against Texas law, is your question to the
[01:44:10.920 --> 01:44:11.920]  chief?
[01:44:11.920 --> 01:44:14.160]  Break a law to, or see if someone else is breaking a law?
[01:44:14.160 --> 01:44:15.160]  How do you justify that?
[01:44:15.160 --> 01:44:16.160]  Yeah.
[01:44:16.160 --> 01:44:19.120]  I'm going to let the chief take a sip of water, he's kind of struggling up here.
[01:44:19.120 --> 01:44:20.720]  I'll address that one.
[01:44:20.720 --> 01:44:25.080]  Unfortunately, we had a question earlier, and it specifically addresses Beam and V, Texas,
[01:44:25.080 --> 01:44:30.280]  which was the 2002 Supreme Criminal Court of Appeals that addressed that.
[01:44:30.280 --> 01:44:32.000]  And like I said before, I'm not a lawyer.
[01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:36.440]  I do, however, respect this document right here, which is the federal constitution.
[01:44:36.440 --> 01:44:45.240]  And I'll run it by again, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals said that we can use the
[01:44:45.240 --> 01:44:51.680]  fourth amendment to trump section 724.013, the prohibition on forcibly taking blood.
[01:44:51.680 --> 01:44:57.840]  They neglected to read five amendments down, the ninth amendment, which again states, anything
[01:44:57.840 --> 01:45:02.760]  enumerated in the constitution, the fourth amendment, cannot be used to deny or disparage
[01:45:02.760 --> 01:45:04.920]  any rights retained by the people.
[01:45:04.920 --> 01:45:11.840]  And it specifically, they enumerate our rights in section 724.013 that the police cannot
[01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:14.880]  withdraw blood forcibly unless there is an accident.
[01:45:14.880 --> 01:45:19.000]  So Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, you need to revisit that one, and it will be revisited
[01:45:19.000 --> 01:45:22.000]  if we institute this police blood withdrawal program.
[01:45:22.000 --> 01:45:23.000]  Okay.
[01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:31.640]  He asked everyone to comment on it, I said, yes, you're up next.
[01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:32.640]  The chief is next.
[01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:33.640]  So we...
[01:45:33.640 --> 01:45:34.640]  Okay.
[01:45:34.640 --> 01:45:35.640]  You guys are confusing me.
[01:45:35.640 --> 01:45:36.640]  What are we doing?
[01:45:36.640 --> 01:45:37.640]  The podium.
[01:45:37.640 --> 01:45:38.640]  I think about...
[01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:47.560]  John just said it, that the current law here and the current Texas law allows for it, right?
[01:45:47.560 --> 01:45:48.560]  You agreed.
[01:45:48.560 --> 01:45:49.920]  If at some point they...
[01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:52.840]  Well, you agreed that the courts have...
[01:45:52.840 --> 01:45:54.840]  The ruling, yes, does allow for it, incorrectly.
[01:45:54.840 --> 01:45:58.120]  He's a rule that is constitutional.
[01:45:58.120 --> 01:46:02.880]  If tomorrow the courts say it's unconstitutional, the appeals court is the United States Supreme
[01:46:02.880 --> 01:46:06.760]  Court, we're going to abide by whatever that case law is.
[01:46:06.760 --> 01:46:08.760]  So it is legal, is you feel it?
[01:46:08.760 --> 01:46:10.760]  Well, as of today, right now it is.
[01:46:10.760 --> 01:46:11.760]  Okay.
[01:46:11.760 --> 01:46:13.720]  Anyone else want to comment on this as far as...
[01:46:13.720 --> 01:46:20.240]  The question was, if this is an illegal unconstitutional act that we're getting into here, does anyone
[01:46:20.240 --> 01:46:21.240]  have any comments on that?
[01:46:21.240 --> 01:46:22.240]  Well, David, yes.
[01:46:22.240 --> 01:46:26.560]  There are some questions, there are some serious questions and concerns.
[01:46:26.560 --> 01:46:33.160]  And I think the law is unfortunately for civil libertarians on the chief's side on this issue
[01:46:33.160 --> 01:46:34.160]  at the moment.
[01:46:34.160 --> 01:46:38.920]  But I think this is a good starting point where we can come together, and I know there's
[01:46:38.920 --> 01:46:43.240]  a lot of lawyers in the room that I've invited here to sit down and really work through this
[01:46:43.240 --> 01:46:47.960]  and see what we can do to work through these questions, and I would like to see that discussion
[01:46:47.960 --> 01:46:48.960]  happen.
[01:46:48.960 --> 01:46:50.760]  I have one more comment on that note.
[01:46:50.760 --> 01:46:57.200]  Once again, I have the Beaman v. Texas ruling right here, and I'd like to read just a small
[01:46:57.200 --> 01:47:04.960]  segment from the dissenting opinion, because again, the body did not rule unanimously in
[01:47:04.960 --> 01:47:07.360]  this ruling, and he states this.
[01:47:07.360 --> 01:47:11.680]  And again, this goes into the whole question of legislating from the bench and judicial
[01:47:11.680 --> 01:47:12.680]  activism.
[01:47:12.680 --> 01:47:16.120]  We elect our representatives, and the legislature makes our laws for a reason, because they
[01:47:16.120 --> 01:47:18.200]  are directly accountable to the people.
[01:47:18.200 --> 01:47:21.480]  So this is what Judge Johnson had to say.
[01:47:21.480 --> 01:47:27.280]  The legislature thus contemplated the possibility of refusal and provided adverse consequences,
[01:47:27.280 --> 01:47:31.780]  other than the involuntary taking of a specimen, for those DWI arrestees who refused to submit
[01:47:31.780 --> 01:47:33.400]  a breath blood specimen.
[01:47:33.400 --> 01:47:37.920]  Might this be because the legislature recognized the difference between a warrant to search
[01:47:37.920 --> 01:47:42.320]  the property or clothing of a person and a warrant that permits the extremely invasive
[01:47:42.320 --> 01:47:44.400]  search of bodily fluids?
[01:47:44.400 --> 01:47:47.160]  Other such invasive searches are authorized by statute.
[01:47:47.160 --> 01:47:51.120]  The legislature could have authorized such an invasive search for offenses under Chapter
[01:47:51.120 --> 01:47:56.880]  49, but instead chose to highly restrict the ability of law enforcement to forcibly collect
[01:47:56.880 --> 01:47:57.880]  blood samples.
[01:47:57.880 --> 01:47:58.880]  All right.
[01:47:58.880 --> 01:48:03.400]  Let's go to another question here.
[01:48:03.400 --> 01:48:04.400]  This is on the cue card.
[01:48:04.400 --> 01:48:05.400]  This is for the chief.
[01:48:05.400 --> 01:48:10.860]  Did the city council give you permission to testify at the Capitol on a bill that would
[01:48:10.860 --> 01:48:16.080]  allow blood to be drawn without a subpoena if that person has an arrest on their record
[01:48:16.080 --> 01:48:17.080]  but no conviction?
[01:48:17.080 --> 01:48:20.840]  And they ask the question again, who gave you or who gave you permission?
[01:48:20.840 --> 01:48:24.640]  Did the city, the first part of it, did the city council give you permission and who gave
[01:48:24.640 --> 01:48:25.640]  you permission?
[01:48:25.640 --> 01:48:29.560]  The city council did not give me permission and I didn't ask for permission.
[01:48:29.560 --> 01:48:31.920]  The first amendment too, so the chief can testify.
[01:48:31.920 --> 01:48:32.920]  Let me just...
[01:48:32.920 --> 01:48:33.920]  Let me clarify.
[01:48:33.920 --> 01:48:34.920]  The first amendment applies to me.
[01:48:34.920 --> 01:48:38.840]  Chief, if I can clarify on your behalf, he actually doesn't work directly for the city
[01:48:38.840 --> 01:48:39.840]  council.
[01:48:39.840 --> 01:48:43.560]  The only person that is his boss is the city manager, just so you know the structure of
[01:48:43.560 --> 01:48:44.560]  our government.
[01:48:44.560 --> 01:48:45.560]  But go ahead.
[01:48:45.560 --> 01:48:46.560]  I'm sorry.
[01:48:46.560 --> 01:48:47.560]  That's just the way it is.
[01:48:47.560 --> 01:48:48.560]  David.
[01:48:48.560 --> 01:48:53.080]  David, I'd also like to comment on this because it was a subject of some of the controversy.
[01:48:53.080 --> 01:48:56.360]  My comments were that I was not pleased with the chief's testimony.
[01:48:56.360 --> 01:49:01.840]  I never once said that the chief needed to or had to ask for permission, but I did say
[01:49:01.840 --> 01:49:06.800]  that I believe this is at some point a policy level decision and this council hasn't taken
[01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:09.000]  action on that policy level decision.
[01:49:09.000 --> 01:49:11.840]  The chief has every right to be the police chief.
[01:49:11.840 --> 01:49:13.760]  That's what we hired him to do.
[01:49:13.760 --> 01:49:19.480]  But the chief is also not above accountability, in my opinion, and this council ultimately
[01:49:19.480 --> 01:49:21.360]  is the governing body of this city.
[01:49:21.360 --> 01:49:27.680]  If we feel compelled to take a policy level decision, we will do that as a council.
[01:49:27.680 --> 01:49:28.680]  Okay.
[01:49:28.680 --> 01:49:31.680]  All right.
[01:49:31.680 --> 01:49:33.800]  Good evening, panel.
[01:49:33.800 --> 01:49:34.800]  My name is Norman Horn.
[01:49:34.800 --> 01:49:39.760]  I'm speaking on behalf of the Libertarian Longhorns at UT Austin, and my question that
[01:49:39.760 --> 01:49:45.720]  I have is specifically for Chief Acevedo and Mr. Martinez regarding how much this actually
[01:49:45.720 --> 01:49:46.720]  costs.
[01:49:46.720 --> 01:49:50.160]  You've all indicated that this will require massive amounts of training and it will increase
[01:49:50.160 --> 01:49:56.280]  the liability of the department to a great extent, and so given that this cost will be
[01:49:56.280 --> 01:50:01.600]  borne by the people of Austin, how much am I going to be expected to pay for this?
[01:50:01.600 --> 01:50:07.680]  So what I've asked is twofold, one, what is the cost of this initial program, just on
[01:50:07.680 --> 01:50:13.720]  a ground level, but then also what will the extended cost be of how this will undoubtedly
[01:50:13.720 --> 01:50:20.760]  bog up the legal system with numerous cases and furthermore prevent perhaps other cases
[01:50:20.760 --> 01:50:21.760]  from being heard?
[01:50:21.760 --> 01:50:22.760]  Okay.
[01:50:22.760 --> 01:50:29.120]  First, in terms of the cost of the training, I think we have two issues.
[01:50:29.120 --> 01:50:34.800]  There's the non-consensual blood draw weekends that we have, and there's the police training
[01:50:34.800 --> 01:50:39.120]  for the bottomless programs, which is something that we would not do unless the council approves
[01:50:39.120 --> 01:50:40.120]  it.
[01:50:40.120 --> 01:50:45.400]  That cost of the training is paid for through a NHTSA grant.
[01:50:45.400 --> 01:50:51.680]  On the back end, one of the things that the anecdotal evidence is in Arizona that's happened,
[01:50:51.680 --> 01:50:58.480]  with the blood evidence, with the actual BA, the opposite effect has happened.
[01:50:58.480 --> 01:51:01.280]  Their jury trials have gone way down.
[01:51:01.280 --> 01:51:08.040]  People plead out, because if you have a blood test that shows you're a 3.0 or 2.0 or 1.7,
[01:51:08.040 --> 01:51:12.480]  and you combine that with a tape that shows that you were weaving oil in the lane or whatever
[01:51:12.480 --> 01:51:17.240]  the objective symptoms were, more than likely most people end up pleading.
[01:51:17.240 --> 01:51:21.200]  And so what it does is actually relieve the court system to deal with other cases.
[01:51:21.200 --> 01:51:25.920]  And secondly, it frees up the overtime that we spend for police officers to testify so
[01:51:25.920 --> 01:51:28.880]  they can be hopefully fighting other crimes.
[01:51:28.880 --> 01:51:31.960]  How much is it going to cost?
[01:51:31.960 --> 01:51:34.560]  The training program is paid for by NHTSA.
[01:51:34.560 --> 01:51:36.760]  California is paying for Texas?
[01:51:36.760 --> 01:51:40.600]  Well, the federal government, it's a program.
[01:51:40.600 --> 01:51:46.400]  We do pay income taxes, by the way, so we are paying for that as well.
[01:51:46.400 --> 01:51:54.200]  Hold on, I think his question was how much, is there an actual number he can give us?
[01:51:54.200 --> 01:51:56.600]  I'd have to defer to the staff in the back.
[01:51:56.600 --> 01:52:00.440]  David, I think the answer is at the local level and in terms of the general fund, it's
[01:52:00.440 --> 01:52:01.440]  unknown.
[01:52:01.440 --> 01:52:05.520]  And that certainly is a question that, again, that I feel like needs to be answered before
[01:52:05.520 --> 01:52:09.040]  we enact some full-time policy position on this.
[01:52:09.040 --> 01:52:11.360]  And the liability costs are, of course, unknown.
[01:52:11.360 --> 01:52:14.360]  And again, I wanted to say that in Arizona, they've had it for 10 years.
[01:52:14.360 --> 01:52:17.720]  There's been one lawsuit in 10 years, and the plaintiffs lost that case.
[01:52:17.720 --> 01:52:21.440]  And I'm going to point out, the chief keeps going back to Arizona, Arizona.
[01:52:21.440 --> 01:52:22.440]  This is not Arizona.
[01:52:22.440 --> 01:52:23.440]  This is Austin, Texas.
[01:52:23.440 --> 01:52:30.200]  And I don't know how many DWI attorneys there are in the audience, but I know that there's
[01:52:30.200 --> 01:52:34.760]  a lot of them that are willing to take this all the way and hopefully include the Ninth
[01:52:34.760 --> 01:52:36.240]  Amendment in Beeman v. Texas.
[01:52:36.240 --> 01:52:38.240]  Did he answer your question?
[01:52:38.240 --> 01:52:39.240]  Okay.
[01:52:39.240 --> 01:52:45.360]  And we will do all those cost analysis in terms of the costs and the funding and present
[01:52:45.360 --> 01:52:46.360]  it at some point.
[01:52:46.360 --> 01:52:47.360]  I think that'd be very interesting to see in those.
[01:52:47.360 --> 01:52:49.920]  Another question from the audience on the cue card.
[01:52:49.920 --> 01:52:54.320]  Which program would you choose, other than the Forest Blood Withdrawal Grant Program
[01:52:54.320 --> 01:52:57.080]  from a national level, if this was not an option?
[01:52:57.080 --> 01:52:59.280]  So if this does not work out, I think it's a question.
[01:52:59.280 --> 01:53:00.280]  Which program would you choose?
[01:53:00.280 --> 01:53:06.680]  Well, we'd just continue our education efforts, our enforcement efforts, and the accountability
[01:53:06.680 --> 01:53:10.600]  effort on 6th Street and some of our bar districts where if you have a credit card or cash, they
[01:53:10.600 --> 01:53:14.840]  don't care, and you're standing, they're going to serve you until you walk outside and pass
[01:53:14.840 --> 01:53:18.640]  out in an alleyway somewhere.
[01:53:18.640 --> 01:53:24.120]  So we'll just continue to use enforcement education and obviously code enforcement as
[01:53:24.120 --> 01:53:29.680]  well to try to hold account of some of our problem establishments.
[01:53:29.680 --> 01:53:34.760]  Question from that side.
[01:53:34.760 --> 01:53:40.520]  I got three comments and one question.
[01:53:40.520 --> 01:53:46.120]  One comment is, I'm a national certified medical assistant and you need at least one year of
[01:53:46.120 --> 01:53:52.500]  experience to get a job, to be qualified for the position.
[01:53:52.500 --> 01:53:58.400]  You can't get the job, it just doesn't make sense, right out of college, you don't have
[01:53:58.400 --> 01:54:02.920]  experience but you need that one year of experience.
[01:54:02.920 --> 01:54:09.480]  And so 40 hours of, you know, the officers, you know, getting the training, that's not
[01:54:09.480 --> 01:54:10.480]  plenty.
[01:54:10.480 --> 01:54:15.400]  I have a year, can't use my skills, you know.
[01:54:15.400 --> 01:54:22.440]  The second one is, excuse me, John Bush.
[01:54:22.440 --> 01:54:27.520]  You're hitting it, you're hitting it, everybody else is speaking, you guys don't know what
[01:54:27.520 --> 01:54:28.520]  you're really talking about.
[01:54:28.520 --> 01:54:37.680]  I mean, you're speaking, it's not the Word of God, but you know, you're speaking, yeah,
[01:54:37.680 --> 01:54:38.680]  that sounds like vitals.
[01:54:38.680 --> 01:54:40.400]  What is your question, sir?
[01:54:40.400 --> 01:54:49.240]  And the third one is, I almost died from cancer twice, almost a year ago, and I know a guy
[01:54:49.240 --> 01:54:52.600]  has me here to speak, so just bear with me.
[01:54:52.600 --> 01:54:55.720]  I understand a lot of people are behind the scenes trying to move.
[01:54:55.720 --> 01:55:05.600]  The third one is, hey, Eric, rather, three, you know what I'm talking about, man.
[01:55:05.600 --> 01:55:07.000]  I lost my thought.
[01:55:07.000 --> 01:55:15.200]  The question is, who represents, the third one is, what happened to the government at
[01:55:15.200 --> 01:55:16.200]  home?
[01:55:16.200 --> 01:55:21.240]  That's where we start, you know, you know, teaching our children not to drink, you know,
[01:55:21.240 --> 01:55:22.240]  that's where it starts.
[01:55:22.240 --> 01:55:23.240]  Okay.
[01:55:23.240 --> 01:55:30.520]  And the question is, who belongs to UCLA, or who represents UCLA?
[01:55:30.520 --> 01:55:31.520]  ACLU?
[01:55:31.520 --> 01:55:32.520]  Or ACLU?
[01:55:32.520 --> 01:55:37.200]  UCLA, yeah, there's so many names, so I'm not going to step here and know what we're
[01:55:37.200 --> 01:55:38.200]  talking about.
[01:55:38.200 --> 01:55:39.200]  Who is your question targeted to?
[01:55:39.200 --> 01:55:40.200]  Who are you asking the question to?
[01:55:40.200 --> 01:55:41.200]  ACLU.
[01:55:41.200 --> 01:55:42.200]  Ask me questions.
[01:55:42.200 --> 01:55:44.200]  See if I can get it right this time.
[01:55:44.200 --> 01:55:46.360]  Separate from church and state, right?
[01:55:46.360 --> 01:55:51.320]  You know, I wanted to pray a prayer, but is that illegal?
[01:55:51.320 --> 01:55:52.320]  I mean, to pray?
[01:55:52.320 --> 01:55:54.800]  That's not the subject of the forum right now, you can talk about that afterwards.
[01:55:54.800 --> 01:55:56.920]  Is that illegal to pray?
[01:55:56.920 --> 01:55:58.960]  We got to keep this remain to our topic here.
[01:55:58.960 --> 01:55:59.960]  No, it's just a question.
[01:55:59.960 --> 01:56:06.040]  We've got to, if you want, anyone want to comment on his questions or his comments?
[01:56:06.040 --> 01:56:08.680]  I was just commenting, so I think we're running out of time.
[01:56:08.680 --> 01:56:09.680]  Yeah, we've got to keep rolling here.
[01:56:09.680 --> 01:56:10.680]  Thank you, sir.
[01:56:10.680 --> 01:56:11.680]  Thank you very much.
[01:56:11.680 --> 01:56:16.240]  I think the good point was a year of training versus a week of training is a good point.
[01:56:16.240 --> 01:56:23.120]  I will say this, if it was, we will lay out the training requirements and the costs and
[01:56:23.120 --> 01:56:27.240]  everything else and then whatever, if we get it, we get it, and if we don't, we're going
[01:56:27.240 --> 01:56:32.440]  to have to look at plan B in terms of how do we obtain in cases, not necessarily DWI,
[01:56:32.440 --> 01:56:36.440]  but other cases, evidence when we need it that requires blood evidence.
[01:56:36.440 --> 01:56:40.440]  Chief, can I get those training documents tomorrow?
[01:56:40.440 --> 01:56:41.440]  We don't have them yet.
[01:56:41.440 --> 01:56:42.440]  Hey, David.
[01:56:42.440 --> 01:56:43.440]  Are you still on that?
[01:56:43.440 --> 01:56:44.440]  I'm still on it.
[01:56:44.440 --> 01:56:45.440]  We have four minutes left.
[01:56:45.440 --> 01:56:46.440]  Hold up, guys.
[01:56:46.440 --> 01:56:47.440]  We have four minutes left.
[01:56:47.440 --> 01:56:48.440]  I think we should take one minute for each panelist to make a statement.
[01:56:48.440 --> 01:56:49.440]  Yeah, we're going to take the process, guys.
[01:56:49.440 --> 01:56:50.440]  We have enough time for probably one or two more questions.
[01:56:50.440 --> 01:56:51.440]  There's one guy that might be here somewhere.
[01:56:51.440 --> 01:57:04.520]  We have enough time for one or two more questions, and then we'll have a wrap up with each panelist
[01:57:04.520 --> 01:57:07.960]  giving us a minute or two of their thoughts, and then we'll have Katie come up and wrap
[01:57:07.960 --> 01:57:08.960]  it up.
[01:57:08.960 --> 01:57:15.560]  Someone asked a question about public acceptance of drinking and drunkenness, and how do we
[01:57:15.560 --> 01:57:19.720]  change that as far as in the movies and all that, and this is more of an intangible question,
[01:57:19.720 --> 01:57:23.600]  but I think it does mean a lot to us as far as how do we change the perception that drinking
[01:57:23.600 --> 01:57:27.600]  is not as cool as the movies make it out to be and all that, and this is more of a soft
[01:57:27.600 --> 01:57:31.400]  question that maybe Mike and the Chief and others can have, but how do we help to change
[01:57:31.400 --> 01:57:32.400]  that perception?
[01:57:32.400 --> 01:57:34.360]  I think that last speaker spoke to it.
[01:57:34.360 --> 01:57:38.680]  It really starts in the home, and I think our biggest challenge in our country with
[01:57:38.680 --> 01:57:46.640]  a lot of issues is we have absentee parents that they don't take care of their kids.
[01:57:46.640 --> 01:57:50.280]  Education, right and wrong, starts in the home, and I think that we're losing that battle
[01:57:50.280 --> 01:57:53.280]  in a lot of places.
[01:57:53.280 --> 01:57:56.160]  Councilman Martinez, do you want to add?
[01:57:56.160 --> 01:57:57.160]  I agree.
[01:57:57.160 --> 01:57:58.160]  I think there's two things.
[01:57:58.160 --> 01:58:01.880]  It's accountability and responsibility, but I don't think it's just in the home.
[01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:05.600]  I think you can create community accountability and community responsibility.
[01:58:05.600 --> 01:58:09.960]  If we're all going to be residents of Austin, we have to accept responsibility for our fellow
[01:58:09.960 --> 01:58:14.920]  residents as well at some level, and I think that a community accountability program moving
[01:58:14.920 --> 01:58:20.240]  forward is exactly what we need to stem the tide of so many young folks growing up and
[01:58:20.240 --> 01:58:25.640]  thinking that there are no consequences to using alcohol, abusing alcohol, and getting
[01:58:25.640 --> 01:58:26.640]  behind the wheel of a car.
[01:58:26.640 --> 01:58:27.640]  Thank you, Mike.
[01:58:27.640 --> 01:58:28.640]  And I'd like to respond to that.
[01:58:28.640 --> 01:58:29.640]  Sure, Debbie.
[01:58:29.640 --> 01:58:35.960]  Just the point here is public education campaigns and efforts, I think, are a much better use
[01:58:35.960 --> 01:58:36.960]  of taxpayer money.
[01:58:36.960 --> 01:58:41.360]  In fact, you get a lot more bang for the buck by running those campaigns.
[01:58:41.360 --> 01:58:47.320]  The Don't Mess With Texas campaign produced like an 80% result in change in behavior.
[01:58:47.320 --> 01:58:48.640]  We're talking about changing behavior.
[01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:52.720]  It is not up to the police officers to teach us how to change our behavior.
[01:58:52.720 --> 01:58:58.280]  It is up to them to enforce the law, and it costs a lot more money when we run it through
[01:58:58.280 --> 01:59:01.040]  the police department to run those types of campaigns.
[01:59:01.040 --> 01:59:05.000]  We need to start that at the grassroots level, and we need to run it around the police department
[01:59:05.000 --> 01:59:07.080]  because they have enough to do.
[01:59:07.080 --> 01:59:13.640]  Okay, anyone else for the panel or else we'll take one more question.
[01:59:13.640 --> 01:59:14.640]  Go ahead.
[01:59:14.640 --> 01:59:18.640]  Thank you very much for hearing me today.
[01:59:18.640 --> 01:59:19.640]  My name is Kevin Smith.
[01:59:19.640 --> 01:59:25.000]  I'm an Austin, I'm a native Texan and freedom fighters, Debbie and John.
[01:59:25.000 --> 01:59:26.000]  Good to see you guys up there.
[01:59:26.000 --> 01:59:29.160]  You give me faith that we can stop some of this stuff.
[01:59:29.160 --> 01:59:32.240]  Councilman Martinez, I know you're a firefighter, so I know there's a good place in your heart
[01:59:32.240 --> 01:59:34.560]  and you've not been on the council long enough to change that.
[01:59:34.560 --> 01:59:44.720]  So I'd like to address the lady from Mothers Against Drug Driving, ma'am, I empathize and
[01:59:44.720 --> 01:59:49.520]  I sympathize and I cry when I hear of the death of a person, an innocent person.
[01:59:49.520 --> 01:59:53.920]  The idea that this is being done to save lives is nonsensical.
[01:59:53.920 --> 01:59:58.000]  These people do take the children with child protective services, vaccinate these kids,
[01:59:58.000 --> 02:00:02.160]  send our daughters now and sons into these meat grinder wars for the bankers.
[02:00:02.160 --> 02:00:03.520]  They don't care about human life.
[02:00:03.520 --> 02:00:10.440]  This is about control, this is about control, folks, hold on, and chief, you're an improvement
[02:00:10.440 --> 02:00:11.440]  over Stanley, sir.
[02:00:11.440 --> 02:00:17.240]  I'll give you that, but that's a pretty low, a low barrier to overcome, sir.
[02:00:17.240 --> 02:00:24.960]  You run, you work for a private, private for-profit corporation, the Austin PD is corporation
[02:00:24.960 --> 02:00:28.800]  and your bottom line is to make money and you look at us as the resources.
[02:00:28.800 --> 02:00:33.960]  This is not about safety, this is about control, making you know that we got to find our place
[02:00:33.960 --> 02:00:34.960]  and bow down.
[02:00:34.960 --> 02:00:35.960]  Folks-
[02:00:35.960 --> 02:00:36.960]  What's your question?
[02:00:36.960 --> 02:00:37.960]  According to-
[02:00:37.960 --> 02:00:38.960]  Kevin, please-
[02:00:38.960 --> 02:00:39.960]  According to the-
[02:00:39.960 --> 02:00:45.440]  The federal government is tripling down on the state spot now with their ties, with their
[02:00:45.440 --> 02:00:46.440]  control.
[02:00:46.440 --> 02:00:49.440]  The policy where this truck here tonight-
[02:00:49.440 --> 02:00:50.440]  I don't know what happened.
[02:00:50.440 --> 02:00:51.440]  The kid is my-
[02:00:51.440 --> 02:00:54.440]  I think everybody is a militia man, a racist, a terrorist.
[02:00:54.440 --> 02:00:55.440]  Sir, what is your question?
[02:00:55.440 --> 02:00:56.440]  We've got to keep moving here.
[02:00:56.440 --> 02:00:57.440]  It's a new profile.
[02:00:57.440 --> 02:01:00.440]  We have a question, sir.
[02:01:00.440 --> 02:01:06.440]  I have a question to say about the program that was brought to Arizona with DNA on the
[02:01:06.440 --> 02:01:07.440]  side of the road.
[02:01:07.440 --> 02:01:08.440]  In any case, we have a-
[02:01:08.440 --> 02:01:09.440]  What do you think about Joe Ayo?
[02:01:09.440 --> 02:01:10.440]  Is he here?
[02:01:10.440 --> 02:01:11.440]  Yes, sir.
[02:01:11.440 --> 02:01:12.440]  I have no respect for him.
[02:01:12.440 --> 02:01:13.440]  They must have cut his mic off.
[02:01:13.440 --> 02:01:14.440]  Okay.
[02:01:14.440 --> 02:01:15.440]  Remember that you work for us.
[02:01:15.440 --> 02:01:16.440]  Thank you.
[02:01:16.440 --> 02:01:17.440]  Thank you.
[02:01:17.440 --> 02:01:18.440]  Okay.
[02:01:18.440 --> 02:01:19.440]  All right.
[02:01:19.440 --> 02:01:20.440]  All right, Kevin.
[02:01:20.440 --> 02:01:21.440]  You go.
[02:01:21.440 --> 02:01:22.440]  You go, Kevin.
[02:01:22.440 --> 02:01:29.680]  I want to say that we've had a huge crowd here tonight.
[02:01:29.680 --> 02:01:34.080]  I want to give each of our panelists about two minutes to say a few words.
[02:01:34.080 --> 02:01:35.080]  We've had a lot of questions.
[02:01:35.080 --> 02:01:37.240]  We got through a lot of great content.
[02:01:37.240 --> 02:01:38.240]  I don't know if this is-
[02:01:38.240 --> 02:01:40.760]  This is almost practically unprecedented as far as the amount of people coming out for
[02:01:40.760 --> 02:01:41.760]  an event.
[02:01:41.760 --> 02:01:42.760]  Very impressive.
[02:01:42.760 --> 02:01:46.240]  But let's go through our panelists, and then we'll do some wrap up.
[02:01:46.240 --> 02:01:48.040]  So let's start with Chief Acevedo.
[02:01:48.040 --> 02:01:49.040]  We'll go right down the line.
[02:01:49.040 --> 02:01:52.400]  Well, I want to start with that Ron Paul t-shirt.
[02:01:52.400 --> 02:01:57.360]  I've got a real problem with what you just talked about in terms of identifying somebody
[02:01:57.360 --> 02:01:58.360]  as a terrorism.
[02:01:58.360 --> 02:02:02.080]  I'm aware of that Missouri Fusion Center report.
[02:02:02.080 --> 02:02:03.080]  I think it's ridiculous.
[02:02:03.080 --> 02:02:04.080]  And sometimes I think-
[02:02:04.080 --> 02:02:15.120]  But I've got to tell you something, DWI is an extremely challenging, difficult problem
[02:02:15.120 --> 02:02:19.520]  in this city, in this state, but specifically in this city.
[02:02:19.520 --> 02:02:23.280]  Judge us as we go forward on what we're doing here in Austin.
[02:02:23.280 --> 02:02:27.600]  You'll never see the Austin Police Department identify people that just because they believe
[02:02:27.600 --> 02:02:32.840]  in civil liberties, they're civil libertarians, or they're a Ron Paul supporter, that they're
[02:02:32.840 --> 02:02:35.080]  part of a militia or terrorists.
[02:02:35.080 --> 02:02:40.960]  And I really believe when we do things like that, this is what creates mistrust.
[02:02:40.960 --> 02:02:43.300]  This department will be transparent.
[02:02:43.300 --> 02:02:47.600]  We will never run away from our critics because at the end of the day, we do work for the
[02:02:47.600 --> 02:02:50.680]  community, the community as a whole, and this community is bleeding.
[02:02:50.680 --> 02:02:55.760]  That's why we're trying to keep the blood from flowing on our highways from the drunk
[02:02:55.760 --> 02:02:56.760]  driving.
[02:02:56.760 --> 02:02:57.760]  Thank you, Chief.
[02:02:57.760 --> 02:02:58.760]  Thank you.
[02:02:58.760 --> 02:03:04.040]  No, it's just going to flow on the highway into the syringes.
[02:03:04.040 --> 02:03:09.000]  I want to start by thanking the Chief and letting the City of Austin know that this
[02:03:09.000 --> 02:03:13.520]  gentleman here is very open, transparent, and accessible, and we should all be very
[02:03:13.520 --> 02:03:23.880]  appreciative of him sitting down at the table with we, the Austin residents.
[02:03:23.880 --> 02:03:29.680]  I personally feel blessed to be an American and to have the sort of democracy, the democratic
[02:03:29.680 --> 02:03:34.320]  republic that we do, but I got to assure each and every one of you that it doesn't stop
[02:03:34.320 --> 02:03:36.120]  at the ballot box.
[02:03:36.120 --> 02:03:38.320]  You don't just cast your vote and go on your merry way.
[02:03:38.320 --> 02:03:43.360]  It is up to us to ensure that our elected representatives are held accountable, and
[02:03:43.360 --> 02:03:45.520]  it takes all of us to do that.
[02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:48.960]  So moving on from here, I want to see each and every one of you present at the City Council
[02:03:48.960 --> 02:03:52.240]  forums, and we need to let this next City Council coming in.
[02:03:52.240 --> 02:03:53.240]  You could be City Hall.
[02:03:53.240 --> 02:03:54.240]  That's right.
[02:03:54.240 --> 02:04:01.760]  We need to let this next upcoming City Council know that the people are very concerned with
[02:04:01.760 --> 02:04:06.280]  the pilot program that the Chief is pushing, and we will not stand for it in the City of
[02:04:06.280 --> 02:04:09.280]  Austin.
[02:04:09.280 --> 02:04:17.360]  We all agree that there is a DWI problem.
[02:04:17.360 --> 02:04:19.720]  We got to ask ourselves, how do we deal with this problem?
[02:04:19.720 --> 02:04:24.280]  Do we set up a police state with checkpoints and police officers that take your blood,
[02:04:24.280 --> 02:04:29.760]  or do we come together as a community, a very intellectual and very responsive and active
[02:04:29.760 --> 02:04:33.960]  community and sit down at the table and come up with solutions that specifically address
[02:04:33.960 --> 02:04:34.960]  Austin's problem?
[02:04:34.960 --> 02:04:35.960]  Thank you.
[02:04:35.960 --> 02:04:36.960]  All right.
[02:04:36.960 --> 02:04:37.960]  Thank you, sir.
[02:04:37.960 --> 02:04:38.960]  Council member Michael Martinez.
[02:04:38.960 --> 02:04:39.960]  Thanks.
[02:04:39.960 --> 02:04:40.960]  Thank you, David.
[02:04:40.960 --> 02:04:45.960]  Guys, I'm so sorry about my voice tonight.
[02:04:45.960 --> 02:04:52.360]  I really apologize, but I'm glad I was able to make it.
[02:04:52.360 --> 02:04:55.320]  This is exactly what democracy is about.
[02:04:55.320 --> 02:04:59.120]  Making sure that folks have their voices heard and making sure that those in the positions
[02:04:59.120 --> 02:05:04.080]  that are making decisions such as Chief Osvaldo, myself and others.
[02:05:04.080 --> 02:05:07.440]  The city manager was here earlier, that we hear your concerns.
[02:05:07.440 --> 02:05:10.840]  I really do want to publicly thank and acknowledge Chief Osvaldo.
[02:05:10.840 --> 02:05:16.360]  He didn't have to be here, and he has every right to move forward with some of the things
[02:05:16.360 --> 02:05:17.360]  that he's doing.
[02:05:17.360 --> 02:05:23.560]  Not all of them, but some of them, but I want to thank him and his staff for continually
[02:05:23.560 --> 02:05:27.840]  listening to this community and for actually doing what we hired him to do, and that's
[02:05:27.840 --> 02:05:32.840]  to be the best police chief that he can while trying to stop crime at all levels, not just
[02:05:32.840 --> 02:05:34.640]  certain levels.
[02:05:34.640 --> 02:05:37.760]  I have a tremendous amount of respect for him.
[02:05:37.760 --> 02:05:42.560]  I have a tremendous amount of respect for this community and the things that you are
[02:05:42.560 --> 02:05:43.560]  sharing with us.
[02:05:43.560 --> 02:05:45.440]  I encourage you to continue to do that.
[02:05:45.440 --> 02:05:49.680]  I encourage you to continue to participate as John has asked, and I also want to thank
[02:05:49.680 --> 02:05:54.120]  Karen and Debbie and John for being here, for putting this forum on tonight.
[02:05:54.120 --> 02:05:59.120]  Thank you.
[02:05:59.120 --> 02:06:03.200]  Karen?
[02:06:03.200 --> 02:06:08.280]  You probably all know this, but Texas leads the nation in drunk driving fatalities.
[02:06:08.280 --> 02:06:15.400]  We have far more fatalities in Texas than even California, and Texas has two-thirds
[02:06:15.400 --> 02:06:17.920]  the population of California.
[02:06:17.920 --> 02:06:18.920]  We've got a problem.
[02:06:18.920 --> 02:06:20.000]  We've got a problem here in Austin.
[02:06:20.000 --> 02:06:21.680]  I think we all acknowledge that.
[02:06:21.680 --> 02:06:25.840]  It's going to take a well-rounded approach to deal with the problem, to say that education
[02:06:25.840 --> 02:06:31.040]  alone is going to solve it is absolutely not correct.
[02:06:31.040 --> 02:06:41.480]  It's going to take strong laws because strong laws do serve as a deterrent to drunk drivers.
[02:06:41.480 --> 02:06:48.160]  Even what the public is going to see from the media tonight is also going to work to
[02:06:48.160 --> 02:06:53.120]  all of our benefit, I believe, in that the public is going to be more engaged in this
[02:06:53.120 --> 02:06:55.120]  whole question.
[02:06:55.120 --> 02:07:01.000]  I think that forums just like this, in and of themselves, serve as a deterrent to would-be
[02:07:01.000 --> 02:07:04.000]  drunk driving.
[02:07:04.000 --> 02:07:05.520]  Once again, Matt supports.
[02:07:05.520 --> 02:07:07.600]  We support stronger educational efforts.
[02:07:07.600 --> 02:07:12.640]  We are out there in the schools with many other organizations, including APD, to try
[02:07:12.640 --> 02:07:18.680]  to educate young people about the responsibility involved with driving.
[02:07:18.680 --> 02:07:23.480]  However, that is not the only answer to this problem.
[02:07:23.480 --> 02:07:27.200]  Strong laws are also a big part of the solution.
[02:07:27.200 --> 02:07:28.200]  Thank you.
[02:07:28.200 --> 02:07:29.200]  Thank you, Karen.
[02:07:29.200 --> 02:07:32.200]  Karen Housewright with the Medicine Against Drunk Driving.
[02:07:32.200 --> 02:07:34.640]  Debbie Russell with the ACLU.
[02:07:34.640 --> 02:07:35.640]  Thank you.
[02:07:35.640 --> 02:07:40.000]  I do want to, again, echo the fact that the chief did not have to be here tonight.
[02:07:40.000 --> 02:07:43.520]  Stanley would not have been here tonight, am I right?
[02:07:43.520 --> 02:07:48.120]  He has been very open, and he has created a lot more accountability in the department,
[02:07:48.120 --> 02:07:49.560]  and that counts for a lot.
[02:07:49.560 --> 02:07:55.720]  When we're talking about these specific divisive issues, we can count on the fact that even
[02:07:55.720 --> 02:08:00.920]  if we lose the fight and some of these programs go forward, we'll be able to track these things
[02:08:00.920 --> 02:08:06.160]  and account for misuse and abuse of the programs.
[02:08:06.160 --> 02:08:10.920]  So I'm grateful that we do have that opportunity in this city.
[02:08:10.920 --> 02:08:15.960]  And I want to encourage us to consider this a call to action versus a reason to just bitch
[02:08:15.960 --> 02:08:16.960]  and moan.
[02:08:16.960 --> 02:08:20.000]  We bitch and moan because there's problems, right?
[02:08:20.000 --> 02:08:27.160]  But we organize for solutions, and we need to find solutions that aren't just inclusive
[02:08:27.160 --> 02:08:34.640]  of creating new enhanced laws, but that are preventative, truly preventative measures.
[02:08:34.640 --> 02:08:37.160]  And I hope this conversation continues, and I thank you for coming.
[02:08:37.160 --> 02:08:38.160]  Thank you.
[02:08:38.160 --> 02:08:39.160]  Thank you, Debbie.
[02:08:39.160 --> 02:08:45.640]  And, you know, there's more ways to have your voice heard than just screaming loudly.
[02:08:45.640 --> 02:08:49.200]  And we had, for the most part, we had a very productive forum, but there are ways to send
[02:08:49.200 --> 02:08:53.360]  letters to the editors, go out and be able to meet with legislators one-on-one and earn
[02:08:53.360 --> 02:08:58.160]  the respect and be able to show them proven facts that you can build your case and you
[02:08:58.160 --> 02:08:59.160]  will be listened to.
[02:08:59.160 --> 02:09:00.160]  Can you please give him, give David a big hand?
[02:09:00.160 --> 02:09:01.160]  David!
[02:09:01.160 --> 02:09:02.160]  Thank you very much, guys.
[02:09:02.160 --> 02:09:03.160]  I'm happy to help.
[02:09:03.160 --> 02:09:04.160]  Guys, let's give Kate and Katie, too, for being the Vanna White of this forum.
[02:09:04.160 --> 02:09:05.160]  Thank you for accountable government, everybody.
[02:09:05.160 --> 02:09:06.160]  Thank you, Katie.
[02:09:06.160 --> 02:09:07.160]  Okay, guys, so let's do the paper.
[02:09:07.160 --> 02:09:16.160]  Plus, we're carrying Katie Brewer, too.
[02:09:16.160 --> 02:09:21.720]  Katie Brewer, we're going to give you a lot of great information.
[02:09:21.720 --> 02:09:22.720]  Here's Katie Brewer.
[02:09:22.720 --> 02:09:23.720]  We made it.
[02:09:23.720 --> 02:09:24.720]  And nobody got Ks.
[02:09:24.720 --> 02:09:25.720]  I want to say thank you for our panelists.
[02:09:25.720 --> 02:09:26.720]  It is so important.
[02:09:26.720 --> 02:09:27.720]  I feel so blessed to be part of this forum.
[02:09:27.720 --> 02:09:40.280]  And all the people that spoke and thank you for everyone.
[02:09:40.280 --> 02:09:45.960]  I apologize that not everybody got to speak or all the questions didn't get answered.
[02:09:45.960 --> 02:09:50.280]  If it was up to me, everybody would get as much time as they possibly could.
[02:09:50.280 --> 02:09:54.240]  The reason why I was so strict is because I wanted to have everybody else speak.
[02:09:54.240 --> 02:10:01.280]  Now, on that, I created this flyer that's blue that says what's next, and it has specific
[02:10:01.280 --> 02:10:06.240]  questions that you could ask at these debates, and that is the next step.
[02:10:06.240 --> 02:10:11.760]  Also, I'd like everyone, if you would want to get involved with tag scene as John Bush
[02:10:11.760 --> 02:10:18.840]  has everything right, sign up outside on the table because we would really like to keep
[02:10:18.840 --> 02:10:22.520]  in touch with you, let you know what the next forum is.
[02:10:22.520 --> 02:10:29.880]  Also, don't forget to get your parking tickets validated if you parked in the City Hall parking
[02:10:29.880 --> 02:10:32.480]  lot garage, and that will be at the table as well.
[02:10:32.480 --> 02:10:35.880]  So there's probably going to be a line for that, so you might want to go ahead and do
[02:10:35.880 --> 02:10:36.880]  that if that's the case.
[02:10:36.880 --> 02:10:37.880]  Thank you.
[02:10:37.880 --> 02:10:38.880]  Thank you all for showing up.
[02:10:38.880 --> 02:10:46.480]  And thanks, David, for doing an excellent job.
[02:10:46.480 --> 02:10:47.480]  Okay.
[02:10:47.480 --> 02:10:55.600]  So this is our forum here in Austin at Austin City Hall concerning the police blood withdrawals.
[02:10:55.600 --> 02:11:00.280]  You are listening to the Rule of Law, Rule of Law Radio Network.
[02:11:00.280 --> 02:11:04.400]  We're going to take a short break, and then we'll be back with Barry Cooper.
[02:11:04.400 --> 02:11:07.400]  We'll be right back after these short messages.
[02:11:07.400 --> 02:11:18.680]  We'll be right back after these short messages.
[02:11:18.680 --> 02:11:42.280]  Thank you.
[02:12:42.280 --> 02:12:49.280] .
[02:13:12.280 --> 02:13:27.680]  The U.S. Navy has deployed two warships off Japan ahead of a planned rocket launch by
[02:13:27.680 --> 02:13:29.280]  North Korea in April.
[02:13:29.280 --> 02:13:34.660]  U.S. intelligence says North Korea is attempting to build nuclear warheads small enough to
[02:13:34.660 --> 02:13:37.320]  fit on its growing number of missiles.
[02:13:37.320 --> 02:13:41.880]  Experts agree North Korea is years away from putting nuclear warheads on missiles that
[02:13:41.880 --> 02:13:42.880]  could hit the U.S.
[02:13:42.880 --> 02:13:49.480]  The U.S. accused Sri Lanka Thursday of breaking promises to stop shelling a no-fire zone where
[02:13:49.480 --> 02:13:54.880]  civilians are trapped by fighting between Tamil Tiger separatists and government forces.
[02:13:54.880 --> 02:14:00.640]  UN humanitarian chief John Holmes said dozens of civilians were dying every day as up to
[02:14:00.640 --> 02:14:04.080]  190,000 remain trapped.
[02:14:04.080 --> 02:14:08.880]  The U.S. has welcomed Iran's decision to attend an international conference on the conflict
[02:14:08.880 --> 02:14:12.200]  in Afghanistan next Tuesday at The Hague.
[02:14:12.200 --> 02:14:18.560]  A U.S. State Department spokesman said there were no plans for U.S. officials to hold substantive
[02:14:18.560 --> 02:14:28.400]  bilateral meetings with the Iranians on the sidelines of the conference.
[02:14:28.400 --> 02:14:33.400]  FBI Director Robert Mueller this week urged lawmakers to renew the Patriot Act, saying
[02:14:33.400 --> 02:14:38.320]  it provides exceptional tools to protect national security.
[02:14:38.320 --> 02:14:44.440]  Civil libertarians say the law passed after 9-11 tramples on American civil liberties.
[02:14:44.440 --> 02:14:48.640]  Portions of the law are up for reauthorization this year.
[02:14:48.640 --> 02:14:53.420]  The American Civil Liberties Union issued a report this month describing widespread
[02:14:53.420 --> 02:14:57.120]  abuse of government authority under the Patriot Act.
[02:14:57.120 --> 02:15:02.640]  Carolyn Fredrickson, director of the ACLU's Washington Legislative Office, said the Patriot
[02:15:02.640 --> 02:15:07.960]  Act has been disastrous for Americans' rights and that Congress should use the Patriot Act
[02:15:07.960 --> 02:15:13.680]  reauthorization as an opportunity to reexamine the country's surveillance laws.
[02:15:13.680 --> 02:15:18.840]  At the Senate confirmation hearing for Attorney General Eric Holder in January, Mueller expressed
[02:15:18.840 --> 02:15:26.800]  support for renewing the provisions that will sunset in December.
[02:15:26.800 --> 02:15:32.160]  The Miami Herald says a promised land deal to save the Florida Everglades is being gutted
[02:15:32.160 --> 02:15:33.920]  by lawmakers.
[02:15:33.920 --> 02:15:39.440]  Many environmental groups have blamed Florida's sugar industry for the decades-long practice
[02:15:39.440 --> 02:15:43.240]  of dumping fertilizer-tainted water in the Everglades.
[02:15:43.240 --> 02:15:50.760]  In June 2008, a deal was struck calling for the state to spend $1.75 billion to buy up
[02:15:50.760 --> 02:15:56.600]  all land belonging to U.S. Sugar, one of the nation's largest privately held agricultural
[02:15:56.600 --> 02:15:57.720]  firms.
[02:15:57.720 --> 02:16:04.320]  The paper said the state would now purchase no more than 75,000 acres of U.S. Sugar's
[02:16:04.320 --> 02:16:05.320]  land.
[02:16:05.320 --> 02:16:09.240]  Florida Governor Charlie Crist is blaming failing tax revenues and the mortgage default
[02:16:09.240 --> 02:16:19.600]  crisis for backtracking on the state's most important environmental issue.
[02:16:19.600 --> 02:16:23.080]  Do you feel like you're shouting into the wind when it comes to speaking with politicians?
[02:16:23.080 --> 02:16:27.160]  Texans for Accountable Government believes your voices should be heard loud and clear.
[02:16:27.160 --> 02:16:31.920]  On Monday, March 30th at 6 p.m. in the council chambers at Austin City Hall, Texans for Accountable
[02:16:31.920 --> 02:16:35.920]  Government will be hosting a public forum regarding police blood withdrawals.
[02:16:35.920 --> 02:16:39.800]  The forum will be sponsored by Councilmember Randy Shade and will allow you, the people
[02:16:39.800 --> 02:16:44.040]  of Austin, the opportunity to express your opinion regarding whether or not you believe
[02:16:44.040 --> 02:16:48.080]  the city should take federal funds in order to train Austin police officers to withdraw
[02:16:48.080 --> 02:16:49.080]  blood.
[02:16:49.080 --> 02:16:53.080]  The panelists will include Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo, Mad State Executive Director
[02:16:53.080 --> 02:16:58.160]  Karen Housewright, City Councilmember Mike Martinez, ACLU Chapter President Debbie Russell
[02:16:58.160 --> 02:17:01.320]  and Texans for Accountable Government Executive Director John Bush.
[02:17:01.320 --> 02:17:05.960]  The forum will be moderated by local Austin TV host David Koporowski and open for questions
[02:17:05.960 --> 02:17:06.960]  from the public.
[02:17:06.960 --> 02:17:09.000]  Be there early as attendance is expected to be high.
[02:17:09.000 --> 02:17:12.200]  For more information, please visit tagtexans.org.
[02:17:12.200 --> 02:17:15.080]  Be there Monday, March 30th at 6 p.m. in Austin City Hall.
[02:17:15.080 --> 02:17:18.000]  This is our time to speak up and be heard.
[02:17:18.000 --> 02:17:27.440]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech
[02:17:27.440 --> 02:17:30.440]  talk radio at its best.
[02:17:30.440 --> 02:17:58.000]  Okay.
[02:17:58.000 --> 02:17:59.000]  We are back.
[02:17:59.000 --> 02:18:02.760]  This is the rule of law.
[02:18:02.760 --> 02:18:08.680]  When are you going to stop abusing your power, Mr. Police Officer?
[02:18:08.680 --> 02:18:10.160]  That's what this whole thing is about.
[02:18:10.160 --> 02:18:13.120]  When are they going to stop abusing the power?
[02:18:13.120 --> 02:18:14.120]  All right.
[02:18:14.120 --> 02:18:18.120]  We just got through broadcasting live from Austin City Hall.
[02:18:18.120 --> 02:18:19.120]  We're still here.
[02:18:19.120 --> 02:18:20.840]  We have permission to finish out our show here.
[02:18:20.840 --> 02:18:22.320]  They just finished.
[02:18:22.320 --> 02:18:25.960]  And right now, we've got Barry Cooper with us.
[02:18:25.960 --> 02:18:27.440]  Thank you for joining us, Barry.
[02:18:27.440 --> 02:18:29.120]  Of course, I'm glad to be here.
[02:18:29.120 --> 02:18:30.120]  My pleasure.
[02:18:30.120 --> 02:18:31.120]  And Barry, you are with...
[02:18:31.120 --> 02:18:36.880]  Give us the name of your website and your video again.
[02:18:36.880 --> 02:18:40.720]  Nevergetbusted.com and copbusters.com with a K.
[02:18:40.720 --> 02:18:41.720]  Excellent.
[02:18:41.720 --> 02:18:42.720]  Nevergetbusted.com and copbusters.com.
[02:18:42.720 --> 02:18:49.480]  All right, Barry, why don't you give us some background on who you are and what you're
[02:18:49.480 --> 02:18:51.720]  doing now to stop this police corruption.
[02:18:51.720 --> 02:18:52.720]  Now you're from East Texas, right?
[02:18:52.720 --> 02:18:53.720]  That's right.
[02:18:53.720 --> 02:19:00.800]  I'm from East Texas, but we recently located to Austin to launch the Cop Buster Project.
[02:19:00.800 --> 02:19:02.000]  And it was successful.
[02:19:02.000 --> 02:19:09.720]  We successfully stung our first police officers in Odessa, December 5th.
[02:19:09.720 --> 02:19:11.720]  Excellent.
[02:19:11.720 --> 02:19:13.960]  And we launched that from Austin.
[02:19:13.960 --> 02:19:21.520]  My bosses call me one of the top narcotics officers that our country has ever seen.
[02:19:21.520 --> 02:19:24.480]  I'm an ex-narcotics officer.
[02:19:24.480 --> 02:19:31.720]  I have over 800 narcotics arrests under my belt, along with running over 100 home invasions
[02:19:31.720 --> 02:19:34.080]  that are called search warrants.
[02:19:34.080 --> 02:19:40.760]  And when I realized that the war on drugs was causing more harm to our families than
[02:19:40.760 --> 02:19:48.460]  the drugs themselves, I switched and produced videos entitled Volume 1 and Volume 2 of Never
[02:19:48.460 --> 02:19:59.280]  Get Busted, and they teach all the law enforcement tactics and secrets that I was taught to harm
[02:19:59.280 --> 02:20:03.400]  nonviolent people in America.
[02:20:03.400 --> 02:20:11.280]  And I also teach in those videos how to counter those law enforcement techniques.
[02:20:11.280 --> 02:20:17.120]  Coming off of that success, we started Cop Busters, where we secretly rented a house
[02:20:17.120 --> 02:20:23.880]  in Odessa, Texas, and turned on a marijuana grow light and started pumping the heat out
[02:20:23.880 --> 02:20:27.280]  of the wall, put hidden cameras everywhere.
[02:20:27.280 --> 02:20:32.840]  And it was to prove that the police were using the illegal FLIR cameras and not putting that
[02:20:32.840 --> 02:20:34.380]  in the search warrant.
[02:20:34.380 --> 02:20:39.040]  So within 24 hours of us setting the trap, the cops raided the house.
[02:20:39.040 --> 02:20:44.080]  And that's all on video at CopBusters.com.
[02:20:44.080 --> 02:20:48.360]  That is absolutely incredible.
[02:20:48.360 --> 02:20:50.360]  It's absolutely incredible.
[02:20:50.360 --> 02:20:51.360]  Hello?
[02:20:51.360 --> 02:20:59.480]  Okay, we've got Police Chief Acevedo here.
[02:20:59.480 --> 02:21:01.480]  Go ahead.
[02:21:01.480 --> 02:21:05.040]  All right, we do have Police Chief Acevedo with us.
[02:21:05.040 --> 02:21:07.080]  He's about to get on the mic here.
[02:21:07.080 --> 02:21:09.560]  Is this the Cop Busters?
[02:21:09.560 --> 02:21:12.200]  No, actually, this is ruleoflawradio.com.
[02:21:12.200 --> 02:21:13.720]  Oh my God.
[02:21:13.720 --> 02:21:14.720]  We're here.
[02:21:14.720 --> 02:21:15.720]  We're here.
[02:21:15.720 --> 02:21:16.720]  But Cop Busters is here.
[02:21:16.720 --> 02:21:17.720]  Yeah.
[02:21:17.720 --> 02:21:18.720]  I'm going to lift that up.
[02:21:18.720 --> 02:21:19.720]  What is that?
[02:21:19.720 --> 02:21:20.720]  Like a corruption thing?
[02:21:20.720 --> 02:21:21.720]  Of course.
[02:21:21.720 --> 02:21:23.280]  Yeah, it's only a corrupt cop.
[02:21:23.280 --> 02:21:28.920]  And our trap that we just set in Odessa, Texas, where we rented a house and placed hidden
[02:21:28.920 --> 02:21:35.380]  cameras and turned on a marijuana grow light and pumped the heat out of the wall, the officers
[02:21:35.380 --> 02:21:40.160]  didn't know it was part of a reality TV show called Cop Busters.
[02:21:40.160 --> 02:21:44.720]  So when they obtained the warrant and the judge signed the warrant, they kicked the
[02:21:44.720 --> 02:21:49.500]  door in only to see signs that nothing illegal had taken place.
[02:21:49.500 --> 02:21:54.240]  So the judge and the police got caught in corruption, you know, violating our Fourth
[02:21:54.240 --> 02:21:57.840]  Amendment rights of illegal searches and seizures.
[02:21:57.840 --> 02:22:00.840]  So I'm running for Texas Attorney General.
[02:22:00.840 --> 02:22:09.000]  I will win in 2010, at which time that makes me the top law enforcement agent in Texas.
[02:22:09.000 --> 02:22:13.000]  I'll be the chief of the chiefs and the sheriffs of the sheriffs.
[02:22:13.000 --> 02:22:19.360]  And there'll be a zero tolerance policy on police, departments and officers who violate
[02:22:19.360 --> 02:22:24.240]  civil rights of Texas citizens or do illegal searches.
[02:22:24.240 --> 02:22:27.080]  They'll be fired immediately.
[02:22:27.080 --> 02:22:31.400]  And the first 30 days of taking office, every chief and sheriff will be required to come
[02:22:31.400 --> 02:22:38.140]  to Austin and attend a conference that I'll be teaching for three days and explain how
[02:22:38.140 --> 02:22:44.240]  we can get police officers or the confidence of the public back in the police to where
[02:22:44.240 --> 02:22:48.040]  when they see a cop, they feel safe instead of paranoid.
[02:22:48.040 --> 02:22:50.320]  How do you feel about that, Police Chief Oscevedo?
[02:22:50.320 --> 02:22:56.280]  Well, I completely agree with any effort to make sure that police officers are doing their
[02:22:56.280 --> 02:23:02.560]  duties in a constitutionally appropriate manner is something that's good because I strongly
[02:23:02.560 --> 02:23:05.720]  believe at least here in Austin, I don't want to speak for everybody, but the majority of
[02:23:05.720 --> 02:23:10.280]  our police officers are extremely hardworking, dedicated, caring professionals.
[02:23:10.280 --> 02:23:16.720]  And when we don't do things right and we go out and we break the law, really one or two
[02:23:16.720 --> 02:23:23.880]  incidents can really make the hard work of a lot of good men and women go down the drain
[02:23:23.880 --> 02:23:28.360]  because it overlapses and the hard work that goes on.
[02:23:28.360 --> 02:23:32.520]  So anything to keep police officers making professional, making them accountable, I'd
[02:23:32.520 --> 02:23:33.520]  support.
[02:23:33.520 --> 02:23:35.920]  Police Chief, are you endorsing cop busters?
[02:23:35.920 --> 02:23:36.920]  No.
[02:23:36.920 --> 02:23:37.920]  I haven't seen it.
[02:23:37.920 --> 02:23:38.920]  Am I on it?
[02:23:38.920 --> 02:23:48.360]  Officer Oscevedo, I wanted to ask you something also, something that Randy and I've been trying
[02:23:48.360 --> 02:23:55.640]  to determine, and that has to do with the legality of taking federal funding for a program
[02:23:55.640 --> 02:23:57.520]  to be implemented by the police.
[02:23:57.520 --> 02:24:02.760]  Does city council have to approve that or what law authorizes the police chief to just
[02:24:02.760 --> 02:24:03.760]  take money from here?
[02:24:03.760 --> 02:24:07.200]  Your honor, because if I tried to do the same thing, it would be called bribery.
[02:24:07.200 --> 02:24:10.200]  So why does the federal government get to do that?
[02:24:10.200 --> 02:24:11.480]  Well, they don't in this city.
[02:24:11.480 --> 02:24:18.600]  In order for us, and Senator Martinez brought up a good point, where in order for us to
[02:24:18.600 --> 02:24:24.800]  put in, to actually accept a grant, to accept monies from a grant, the council has to authorize
[02:24:24.800 --> 02:24:25.800]  that.
[02:24:25.800 --> 02:24:26.800]  Okay.
[02:24:26.800 --> 02:24:31.320]  So is this still, all of this is still pending city council approval?
[02:24:31.320 --> 02:24:37.640]  My biggest problem is, that's not just drunk driving, it's blood evidence in general for
[02:24:37.640 --> 02:24:42.240]  all crimes, more and more nurses don't like to go to court, they don't like being hammered
[02:24:42.240 --> 02:24:43.240]  by defense attorneys.
[02:24:43.240 --> 02:24:45.240]  That's not why they became nurses.
[02:24:45.240 --> 02:24:49.840]  So what I've talked to the council about is what we have a challenge here.
[02:24:49.840 --> 02:24:56.040]  How do we obtain evidence of a crime through a blood search warrant if nobody wants to
[02:24:56.040 --> 02:24:57.040]  do it?
[02:24:57.040 --> 02:24:58.040]  Right.
[02:24:58.040 --> 02:25:02.080]  So in order for us to do it internally, other than train the police officers, we would need
[02:25:02.080 --> 02:25:06.360]  seven full-time phlebotomists on staff to be able to handle the work.
[02:25:06.360 --> 02:25:08.800]  But all of this is still pending city council approval.
[02:25:08.800 --> 02:25:11.160]  We will not bring that program here without their approval.
[02:25:11.160 --> 02:25:12.160]  Okay.
[02:25:12.160 --> 02:25:13.160]  That was one of my main questions.
[02:25:13.160 --> 02:25:14.160]  I got to get going here.
[02:25:14.160 --> 02:25:15.160]  One more question.
[02:25:15.160 --> 02:25:16.160]  One question.
[02:25:16.160 --> 02:25:19.800]  We do a program on due process and legal reform.
[02:25:19.800 --> 02:25:26.360]  And over time, I've been trying to get people not to focus on the police as the problem,
[02:25:26.360 --> 02:25:29.240]  unless we really don't believe it is.
[02:25:29.240 --> 02:25:36.040]  And one of the things I would like to do is get either you or a good policeman to come
[02:25:36.040 --> 02:25:37.040]  on.
[02:25:37.040 --> 02:25:38.040]  Are you saying I'm not a good policeman or?
[02:25:38.040 --> 02:25:39.040]  Or another.
[02:25:39.040 --> 02:25:40.040]  I say another.
[02:25:40.040 --> 02:25:41.040]  Yeah.
[02:25:41.040 --> 02:25:42.040]  I would prefer you.
[02:25:42.040 --> 02:25:46.720]  Well, any cop that'll take the blood from somebody involuntarily is not a good policeman.
[02:25:46.720 --> 02:25:50.360]  Well, it's like people that, you know, you got it.
[02:25:50.360 --> 02:25:52.320]  You said I could ask one question.
[02:25:52.320 --> 02:25:53.320]  Does it?
[02:25:53.320 --> 02:25:54.320]  It's just a question real quickly.
[02:25:54.320 --> 02:25:55.720]  We're going to have a question.
[02:25:55.720 --> 02:26:01.980]  I would like you to come on because what I want to do is give our listeners the experience
[02:26:01.980 --> 02:26:06.080]  of actually being a police officer and hear where you live.
[02:26:06.080 --> 02:26:09.840]  We hear where we live and we hear the crap you do all the time and we hate you for it.
[02:26:09.840 --> 02:26:13.840]  I'd like to hear where you live so we can get another perspective.
[02:26:13.840 --> 02:26:14.840]  Let's face it.
[02:26:14.840 --> 02:26:17.520]  You know, police officers, we have a product nobody wants to buy.
[02:26:17.520 --> 02:26:18.520]  Nobody wants a ticket.
[02:26:18.520 --> 02:26:19.520]  Nobody wants to go to jail.
[02:26:19.520 --> 02:26:23.120]  I mean, have you met somebody that actually wants to go to jail and wants a ticket?
[02:26:23.120 --> 02:26:24.120]  Nobody wants it.
[02:26:24.120 --> 02:26:25.880]  So it makes it very difficult for us.
[02:26:25.880 --> 02:26:31.600]  And what you said in there, which I really liked, is that I think at times the public
[02:26:31.600 --> 02:26:35.960]  focuses on the police on the front end, but there's little focus on the rest of the criminal
[02:26:35.960 --> 02:26:37.380]  justice system.
[02:26:37.380 --> 02:26:42.160]  And so sometimes we get the credit or the blame for issues that have very little to
[02:26:42.160 --> 02:26:44.000]  do with the frontline police officers.
[02:26:44.000 --> 02:26:47.120]  The fact remains that most police officers are dedicated professionals.
[02:26:47.120 --> 02:26:50.840]  And what you talked about in there was something's beeping.
[02:26:50.840 --> 02:26:51.840]  Go ahead.
[02:26:51.840 --> 02:26:52.840]  Go ahead.
[02:26:52.840 --> 02:26:53.840]  No, that's okay.
[02:26:53.840 --> 02:26:54.840]  I'm not going to tell them to hurry up.
[02:26:54.840 --> 02:26:55.840]  Yes.
[02:26:55.840 --> 02:26:56.840]  No, it's all right.
[02:26:56.840 --> 02:26:59.000]  What you said in there was to look at what are the prosecutors doing?
[02:26:59.000 --> 02:27:01.400]  You said they're probably burning the heck out of everything just so they can get a conviction,
[02:27:01.400 --> 02:27:04.480]  so they can get the money and we can get them back out and still holding people accountable.
[02:27:04.480 --> 02:27:07.480]  I think that's a valid question, and that's something that the public should look at to
[02:27:07.480 --> 02:27:10.880]  see what's happening with prosecutors, what's happening with judges, because at the end
[02:27:10.880 --> 02:27:14.960]  of the day, if we can hold somebody accountable so they don't do it a second time, it's not
[02:27:14.960 --> 02:27:15.960]  a bad thing.
[02:27:15.960 --> 02:27:17.960]  So anyway, guys, that's all I've got.
[02:27:17.960 --> 02:27:18.960]  I've got to go.
[02:27:18.960 --> 02:27:19.960]  All right.
[02:27:19.960 --> 02:27:20.960]  Thank you.
[02:27:20.960 --> 02:27:21.960]  Chief, I have one more quick question.
[02:27:21.960 --> 02:27:22.960]  What was your name again?
[02:27:22.960 --> 02:27:23.960]  It's nice to meet you.
[02:27:23.960 --> 02:27:24.960]  Art.
[02:27:24.960 --> 02:27:25.960]  Art.
[02:27:25.960 --> 02:27:26.960]  Okay, Art.
[02:27:26.960 --> 02:27:30.760]  I see your sincerity in really wanting to serve the people.
[02:27:30.760 --> 02:27:34.600]  There's no question there, and for that, I respect that.
[02:27:34.600 --> 02:27:43.200]  But does the phrase giving up a freedom in the name of security mean anything to you
[02:27:43.200 --> 02:27:49.560]  in the sense this emotional debate about DWIs is always centered around our children, as
[02:27:49.560 --> 02:27:51.240]  is the farce war on drugs.
[02:27:51.240 --> 02:27:55.760]  We need to save our kids.
[02:27:55.760 --> 02:28:04.320]  In the principle of taking away freedoms from us to keep Americans secure, do you agree
[02:28:04.320 --> 02:28:06.080]  with that principle or not?
[02:28:06.080 --> 02:28:11.640]  I think that you have to balance the need for security with freedoms.
[02:28:11.640 --> 02:28:16.560]  If you go to the extent where we no longer live in a free society, it's kind of too great
[02:28:16.560 --> 02:28:20.280]  of a cause to pay for freedom.
[02:28:20.280 --> 02:28:22.680]  Freedom sometimes means that we do have challenges.
[02:28:22.680 --> 02:28:25.040]  Sometimes it means that we do take risks.
[02:28:25.040 --> 02:28:31.800]  And when we go too extreme on either side of an issue, I think moderation and pragmatism
[02:28:31.800 --> 02:28:36.000]  and people coming together to find common ground is the way to go and not go to any
[02:28:36.000 --> 02:28:37.000]  extremes.
[02:28:37.000 --> 02:28:38.000]  You're right.
[02:28:38.000 --> 02:28:41.240]  That's why taking blood from somebody without their consent is not moderation.
[02:28:41.240 --> 02:28:42.600]  Thank you, Dr. Sadi.
[02:28:42.600 --> 02:28:44.720]  Thank you, Police Chief Acevedo.
[02:28:44.720 --> 02:28:45.720]  All right.
[02:28:45.720 --> 02:28:51.640]  So we just heard from Police Chief Acevedo, and so they do have to have city council's
[02:28:51.640 --> 02:28:57.840]  approval in order to do this, which is something that has been kind of unclear to me for the
[02:28:57.840 --> 02:29:01.560]  whole time because it seemed like they were just going to do this thing.
[02:29:01.560 --> 02:29:07.880]  So what are your comments at this point, Barry?
[02:29:07.880 --> 02:29:17.480]  My comments are that I'm sort of embarrassed as a country that this many intelligent adults
[02:29:17.480 --> 02:29:24.480]  tonight had to come together to debate something as ludicrous as holding a grown man or grown
[02:29:24.480 --> 02:29:29.320]  woman down to draw their blood forcefully.
[02:29:29.320 --> 02:29:34.960]  And the chief of police kept saying over and over, we will not force taking that person's
[02:29:34.960 --> 02:29:35.960]  blood.
[02:29:35.960 --> 02:29:36.960]  And I believe him.
[02:29:36.960 --> 02:29:43.240]  And what they will do is tack on another charge of resisting search and arrest.
[02:29:43.240 --> 02:29:47.520]  There's an issue that I've never heard addressed.
[02:29:47.520 --> 02:29:52.760]  What about the constitutional prohibition against the corruption of blood?
[02:29:52.760 --> 02:29:57.800]  Well, and also the other issue that was never addressed, and I wrote it down on a card,
[02:29:57.800 --> 02:30:01.440]  a question to be asked, is that the penal code prohibits this.
[02:30:01.440 --> 02:30:05.800]  And so even if the transportation code at this point in time is a gray area, or even
[02:30:05.800 --> 02:30:11.240]  if the legislature is going to amend the transportation code, it does not matter because when there's
[02:30:11.240 --> 02:30:16.760]  two sets of conflicting law in this case, the penal code wins out over the transportation
[02:30:16.760 --> 02:30:17.760]  code.
[02:30:17.760 --> 02:30:18.760]  And that was never addressed.
[02:30:18.760 --> 02:30:25.520]  The Code of Criminal Procedure says that an intoxicated person cannot give consent.
[02:30:25.520 --> 02:30:31.880]  And then the transportation code says if you're intoxicated, you have given tacit permission.
[02:30:31.880 --> 02:30:40.600]  Well, if two statutes conflict in the criminal realm, the Code of Criminal Procedure governs.
[02:30:40.600 --> 02:30:46.720]  Yeah, and the other code also says that they cannot do it by force.
[02:30:46.720 --> 02:30:48.680]  They can only do it if you give your consent.
[02:30:48.680 --> 02:30:50.960]  And so that means that breathalyzers are illegal, too.
[02:30:50.960 --> 02:30:54.880]  Can I get into the kitchen of the listeners?
[02:30:54.880 --> 02:30:57.600]  Here's what's in the kitchen right now.
[02:30:57.600 --> 02:31:05.400]  The mothers against drunk drivers have carried an issue way too far out of emotion, no different
[02:31:05.400 --> 02:31:12.040]  than when a 22-year-old black kid kills a police officer.
[02:31:12.040 --> 02:31:17.920]  There's so much emotion around, oh my god, a cop's dead, a cop's dead, that we fail to
[02:31:17.920 --> 02:31:23.920]  look at the culture that would raise a 22-year-old man that's so angry at somebody that's supposed
[02:31:23.920 --> 02:31:28.960]  to protect him but has caused him to be angry enough to kill him.
[02:31:28.960 --> 02:31:33.600]  It's the same when a child dies in a DWI traffic accident.
[02:31:33.600 --> 02:31:36.320]  It's sad, it's horrible, it's tragic.
[02:31:36.320 --> 02:31:41.880]  But we need to look past the emotion of that and get to the reality of what we're talking
[02:31:41.880 --> 02:31:42.880]  about.
[02:31:42.880 --> 02:31:44.440]  This is a freedom issue.
[02:31:44.440 --> 02:31:50.720]  I have four children, a 16-year-old daughter that's going to college full-time.
[02:31:50.720 --> 02:31:54.120]  All of our kids are straight A popular kids.
[02:31:54.120 --> 02:32:00.520]  And they will tell you that they are not willing to give up any freedoms for safety.
[02:32:00.520 --> 02:32:12.080]  I would rather take the chance of one of my children unfortunately dying in a DWI accident
[02:32:12.080 --> 02:32:16.880]  than to take one freedom away from one American individual.
[02:32:16.880 --> 02:32:19.360]  And that's what we must stand on.
[02:32:19.360 --> 02:32:23.960]  A lot of the forum tonight was talking about how we're going to do this and how we're going
[02:32:23.960 --> 02:32:29.840]  to take the blood when it was clear the audience was booing the whole process.
[02:32:29.840 --> 02:32:34.360]  So we didn't get to really debate whether we should or shouldn't do it.
[02:32:34.360 --> 02:32:39.080]  Most of the time was spent talking about how we're going to do this when it's clear the
[02:32:39.080 --> 02:32:41.520]  citizens are not happy with it.
[02:32:41.520 --> 02:32:50.200]  This is fueled by insurance company money and a group of mad women that are using emotion
[02:32:50.200 --> 02:32:56.080]  to guide law instead of our constitution and reason and logic.
[02:32:56.080 --> 02:33:01.760]  Furthermore, and I'll end with this, we inflame the situation by talking about saving our
[02:33:01.760 --> 02:33:04.680]  kids, saving our kids, saving our kids.
[02:33:04.680 --> 02:33:10.840]  Have they given as mothers against drunk drivers or the chief of police of the city of Austin,
[02:33:10.840 --> 02:33:17.120]  given any of thought to the hardships brought on the families when the mother or father
[02:33:17.120 --> 02:33:21.800]  are arrested illegally for a DWI and then they have to prove they're innocent.
[02:33:21.800 --> 02:33:26.360]  A lot of times they can't afford the court, the court costs.
[02:33:26.360 --> 02:33:29.320]  So they get on probation and they have to pay $3,000 a year.
[02:33:29.320 --> 02:33:30.320]  They can't drive.
[02:33:30.320 --> 02:33:31.720]  They get all this stuff taken away.
[02:33:31.720 --> 02:33:37.080]  What about the harms caused on those kids at home because of that?
[02:33:37.080 --> 02:33:42.440]  And they're paying attention mostly to the kids that had died in a traffic accident,
[02:33:42.440 --> 02:33:44.480]  which is sad too.
[02:33:44.480 --> 02:33:49.880]  So what I'm saying is the real issues really did not get discussed tonight.
[02:33:49.880 --> 02:33:54.400]  It should have been the reverse where the audience of 200 people were sitting back there
[02:33:54.400 --> 02:33:59.160]  on the panel questioning the police officers and the people in the government position
[02:33:59.160 --> 02:34:00.920]  instead of the other way around.
[02:34:00.920 --> 02:34:01.920]  No kidding.
[02:34:01.920 --> 02:34:04.840]  One thing that I really didn't like about the way they had this public input set up
[02:34:04.840 --> 02:34:08.520]  is that nobody, they wouldn't let people make comments.
[02:34:08.520 --> 02:34:10.760]  You had to ask a question.
[02:34:10.760 --> 02:34:15.320]  Well, Randy and I came here with information to give them.
[02:34:15.320 --> 02:34:19.800]  We researched statutes and case law and we were coming here to inform them that what
[02:34:19.800 --> 02:34:21.840]  they want to do is illegal.
[02:34:21.840 --> 02:34:26.280]  And so in order to make that point to them, you have to reframe that in the form of a
[02:34:26.280 --> 02:34:29.720]  question like, do you know that what you want to do is illegal?
[02:34:29.720 --> 02:34:30.720]  Can someone please respond?
[02:34:30.720 --> 02:34:36.640]  And this is what's going to happen when you do these illegal things.
[02:34:36.640 --> 02:34:41.000]  My concern was that it was totally the wrong argument.
[02:34:41.000 --> 02:34:46.400]  Human beings are some of the only creatures that will try to do something and it doesn't
[02:34:46.400 --> 02:34:50.360]  work so they'll try to do it harder.
[02:34:50.360 --> 02:34:57.720]  I'm in no way against going after drunk drivers, but the way we're doing it's not working.
[02:34:57.720 --> 02:35:04.640]  99.6% conviction rate and the drunk driving goes up.
[02:35:04.640 --> 02:35:09.800]  We need to back up and find a way to do this differently.
[02:35:09.800 --> 02:35:10.800]  And I like that.
[02:35:10.800 --> 02:35:11.800]  There is a solution.
[02:35:11.800 --> 02:35:13.800]  There's a simple solution.
[02:35:13.800 --> 02:35:16.040]  As I said earlier, I have four kids.
[02:35:16.040 --> 02:35:19.600]  I don't want to see them die in a DWI traffic accident.
[02:35:19.600 --> 02:35:27.600]  Well, I not only made more narcotics arrests than my peers, I also worked on the DWI task
[02:35:27.600 --> 02:35:37.360]  force as a police officer and I'm certified in field sobriety tests that absolutely work.
[02:35:37.360 --> 02:35:42.760]  And I know from my experience that the horizontal gaze nystagmus, the one leg stand and the
[02:35:42.760 --> 02:35:49.080]  heel to toe, when you're too drunk to drive, that test will show it.
[02:35:49.080 --> 02:35:50.860]  We don't even need the breath test.
[02:35:50.860 --> 02:35:52.020]  We don't need urine test.
[02:35:52.020 --> 02:35:53.160]  We don't need blood test.
[02:35:53.160 --> 02:35:56.400]  Our parents and our grandparents gave all that stuff away.
[02:35:56.400 --> 02:35:59.040]  We're going to fight on this blood issue.
[02:35:59.040 --> 02:36:04.000]  So the solution is the standardized field sobriety test.
[02:36:04.000 --> 02:36:10.400]  I do not agree with the 0.08 blood alcohol content that you're too intoxicated to be
[02:36:10.400 --> 02:36:11.400]  driving.
[02:36:11.400 --> 02:36:13.200]  That is not a fair test.
[02:36:13.200 --> 02:36:21.400]  When I was young, I don't know, started drinking 16 or 17, if I was at 0.08, I was stumbling
[02:36:21.400 --> 02:36:22.400]  everywhere.
[02:36:22.400 --> 02:36:25.080]  I had no business driving a car or a tractor for that matter.
[02:36:25.080 --> 02:36:26.960]  I grew up on a farm.
[02:36:26.960 --> 02:36:32.820]  Now if I'm at 0.08, you can't even tell I've had anything to drink, yet you'll call me
[02:36:32.820 --> 02:36:34.420]  a criminal.
[02:36:34.420 --> 02:36:41.420]  So the test of 0.08 in these BAC levels are not the true test if somebody can safely drive
[02:36:41.420 --> 02:36:42.420]  or not.
[02:36:42.420 --> 02:36:44.800]  It's standardized field sobriety.
[02:36:44.800 --> 02:36:47.720]  This is sensationalism driving these laws.
[02:36:47.720 --> 02:36:54.760]  It's money driving these DWI laws and it's emotion driving the DWI laws at the expense
[02:36:54.760 --> 02:36:58.480]  of the freedom of the American people.
[02:36:58.480 --> 02:37:04.720]  And as Texas Attorney General in 2010, just like I told the chief, if he's still chief
[02:37:04.720 --> 02:37:10.520]  here, I'll be his boss and I'll make sure and approve every lawsuit that any citizen
[02:37:10.520 --> 02:37:16.840]  files against a police department or a police officer for taking blood involuntarily.
[02:37:16.840 --> 02:37:21.120]  I'll also approve the suit of the judge for that matter.
[02:37:21.120 --> 02:37:24.040]  Good for you, Barry, and really appreciate that.
[02:37:24.040 --> 02:37:27.040]  Excellent, excellent work.
[02:37:27.040 --> 02:37:33.120]  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
[02:37:33.120 --> 02:37:34.120]  Absolutely, absolutely.
[02:37:34.120 --> 02:37:37.960]  All right, do you have anything else for us, Barry?
[02:37:37.960 --> 02:37:38.960]  Will you come back?
[02:37:38.960 --> 02:37:39.960]  Will you agree to join us again?
[02:37:39.960 --> 02:37:40.960]  I will.
[02:37:40.960 --> 02:37:42.560]  I would like to close with this.
[02:37:42.560 --> 02:37:45.720]  Please support our campaign effort.
[02:37:45.720 --> 02:37:49.960]  Our campaign website should be launched within the next few weeks.
[02:37:49.960 --> 02:37:55.960]  Until then, the way we're funding this project is through the sales of my Never Get Busted
[02:37:55.960 --> 02:38:03.800]  videos and other neat stuff that we have in our store at nevergetbusted.com and or copbusters.com.
[02:38:03.800 --> 02:38:05.920]  All right, excellent.
[02:38:05.920 --> 02:38:06.920]  Thank you very much.
[02:38:06.920 --> 02:38:07.920]  All right.
[02:38:07.920 --> 02:38:14.440]  This is Barry Cooper from copbusters.com and nevergetbusted.com and we have another guest
[02:38:14.440 --> 02:38:15.440]  coming up.
[02:38:15.440 --> 02:38:17.200]  Our next attorney general.
[02:38:17.200 --> 02:38:19.120]  Our next attorney general, we hope.
[02:38:19.120 --> 02:38:20.120]  All right.
[02:38:20.120 --> 02:38:21.640]  We have another guest coming up.
[02:38:21.640 --> 02:38:22.640]  All right.
[02:38:22.640 --> 02:38:26.360]  This is Karen House from Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
[02:38:26.360 --> 02:38:29.680]  Karen, thank you for joining us tonight.
[02:38:29.680 --> 02:38:30.680]  You're welcome.
[02:38:30.680 --> 02:38:36.040]  Karen, can you kind of bring this up to speed of how you got here?
[02:38:36.040 --> 02:38:40.520]  You're one of those ordinary people that got out here and made an extraordinary difference.
[02:38:40.520 --> 02:38:45.040]  I am the state director from Mothers Against Drunk Driving and enjoy being out in public
[02:38:45.040 --> 02:38:47.160]  and sharing the ideas.
[02:38:47.160 --> 02:38:52.960]  I mean, it's been a very helpful, I think, good debate tonight.
[02:38:52.960 --> 02:38:58.720]  And I'm just a citizen, yes, who is very concerned about the drunk driving problem in Texas and
[02:38:58.720 --> 02:39:01.120]  specifically here in Austin.
[02:39:01.120 --> 02:39:06.000]  And what I do is take information that I gather from events like this and report back to my
[02:39:06.000 --> 02:39:10.760]  advisory council and to other people just to keep them abreast of some of the issues
[02:39:10.760 --> 02:39:11.760]  being discussed.
[02:39:11.760 --> 02:39:12.760]  Yes.
[02:39:12.760 --> 02:39:21.200]  I raised an issue before them and I had this whole spiel laid out, and they ruined it all.
[02:39:21.200 --> 02:39:26.640]  But we do a show on due process and legal reform.
[02:39:26.640 --> 02:39:33.920]  And after some 30 years of researching the criminal justice system, I find it in an incredible
[02:39:33.920 --> 02:39:43.240]  mess and with all of the, right now, we do have a conviction rate of 99.6.
[02:39:43.240 --> 02:39:45.560]  So what do we do?
[02:39:45.560 --> 02:39:46.560]  This is not working.
[02:39:46.560 --> 02:39:52.760]  Well, when you say a conviction rate of 99.6, that's not all convicted of drunk driving.
[02:39:52.760 --> 02:39:57.440]  It means the cases, people who have been arrested for DWI, those cases have been adjudicated
[02:39:57.440 --> 02:39:58.920]  one way or another.
[02:39:58.920 --> 02:40:03.180]  Many of those are pled down to lesser charge, to PI, to reckless driving.
[02:40:03.180 --> 02:40:09.280]  We see people who are arrested for DWI eventually found guilty of reckless driving and public
[02:40:09.280 --> 02:40:10.280]  intoxication.
[02:40:10.280 --> 02:40:18.680]  So it's 99 point, whatever you said, 6% conviction rate does not mean that 99.6% of the people
[02:40:18.680 --> 02:40:23.600]  arrested for drunk driving are eventually convicted for drunk driving.
[02:40:23.600 --> 02:40:30.200]  The point of problem here seems to be that it doesn't make any difference what you get
[02:40:30.200 --> 02:40:31.200]  accused of.
[02:40:31.200 --> 02:40:34.400]  You're going to take a deal.
[02:40:34.400 --> 02:40:40.240]  And I know I've talked to a lot of policemen who have a serious concern about this because
[02:40:40.240 --> 02:40:45.280]  the habitual offender, he knows how to work the system.
[02:40:45.280 --> 02:40:48.320]  The policeman arrests them, they put him in jail.
[02:40:48.320 --> 02:40:52.960]  Before the policeman gets done with his paperwork, the guy's on the street, he goes to the prosecutor
[02:40:52.960 --> 02:40:56.600]  and he knows how to play poker with the prosecutor and get his best deal.
[02:40:56.600 --> 02:41:02.800]  I had a sheriff's deputy try to kill me of 92.
[02:41:02.800 --> 02:41:07.680]  And when I went to court, they brought in a witness and his name was Mr. Starr.
[02:41:07.680 --> 02:41:13.000]  I said, Mr. Starr, on the date in question, have you been drinking?
[02:41:13.000 --> 02:41:15.840]  Oh, no, no, I haven't been drinking.
[02:41:15.840 --> 02:41:19.400]  Mr. Starr, I have your criminal history here.
[02:41:19.400 --> 02:41:21.720]  You've been a bad boy.
[02:41:21.720 --> 02:41:24.400]  Tell me, Mr. Starr, have you ever been arrested for DUI?
[02:41:24.400 --> 02:41:31.760]  Oh, well, yeah, a time or two, I said, or two or three maybe, four, well, yeah, three,
[02:41:31.760 --> 02:41:39.200]  four, maybe five, maybe seven, yeah, ten, Mr. Starr, ten arrests for DUI.
[02:41:39.200 --> 02:41:42.960]  Well, no more questions.
[02:41:42.960 --> 02:41:46.600]  How does a man get ten arrests for DUI?
[02:41:46.600 --> 02:41:49.640]  Something is terribly wrong.
[02:41:49.640 --> 02:41:51.240]  I'm not going to defend the system.
[02:41:51.240 --> 02:41:53.040]  I know there are a lot of holes in it.
[02:41:53.040 --> 02:41:58.320]  I think the public being engaged in the debate and making the judges know that this is a
[02:41:58.320 --> 02:42:00.760]  grave concern makes all the difference.
[02:42:00.760 --> 02:42:04.320]  I have no doubt about that.
[02:42:04.320 --> 02:42:09.200]  I was going to respond to one specific thing you said, of course, right now I can't remember
[02:42:09.200 --> 02:42:16.240]  what it was, but, you know, MAD knows what we see on a daily basis are the victims, the
[02:42:16.240 --> 02:42:19.760]  people who are injured and killed by drunk drivers every day.
[02:42:19.760 --> 02:42:25.080]  And so we struggle with what could have been done to prevent those tragedies from happening.
[02:42:25.080 --> 02:42:32.600]  And I think that for the repeat offenders, which there are many, there's, I think, something
[02:42:32.600 --> 02:42:36.880]  like 267,000 people in Texas who have two or more DUI convictions.
[02:42:36.880 --> 02:42:42.840]  It's an astronomical amount, which is why we are supporting technology like ignition
[02:42:42.840 --> 02:42:43.960]  interlock.
[02:42:43.960 --> 02:42:50.720]  The first conviction, why shouldn't somebody who has proven themselves to be a lawbreaker
[02:42:50.720 --> 02:42:54.600]  have to have an ignition interlock device on their vehicle?
[02:42:54.600 --> 02:42:58.000]  That stops, that prevents people from drinking and driving.
[02:42:58.000 --> 02:43:02.360]  I actually very much agree with that.
[02:43:02.360 --> 02:43:08.880]  Once you have been convicted of the act, you've shown yourself not to be responsible and your
[02:43:08.880 --> 02:43:14.480]  inconvenience is not near as important as my neighbor's life.
[02:43:14.480 --> 02:43:23.720]  So the thing I'm concerned about is more deterioration in the trust between the public and the police.
[02:43:23.720 --> 02:43:24.720]  Well, yeah.
[02:43:24.720 --> 02:43:29.120]  And I'm concerned about the police breaking the law because even if the transportation
[02:43:29.120 --> 02:43:34.280]  code says that they can do this, the penal code says that it cannot.
[02:43:34.280 --> 02:43:36.960]  And that's something that was never addressed at the forum.
[02:43:36.960 --> 02:43:41.520]  And they were citing some case law and some things like that, but the penal code wins
[02:43:41.520 --> 02:43:45.840]  out over the transportation code in Texas and the penal code says that they cannot do
[02:43:45.840 --> 02:43:46.840]  this.
[02:43:46.840 --> 02:43:53.000]  So they're setting themselves up for some extreme liability here of being charged before
[02:43:53.000 --> 02:43:55.400]  a grand jury, of being sued.
[02:43:55.400 --> 02:44:00.280]  And so before we can even take this any further, first it looks like we need to go to the legislature
[02:44:00.280 --> 02:44:05.720]  and have them do something with the penal code or this before it can really be implemented
[02:44:05.720 --> 02:44:13.480]  because our state law says that it can't, but the state courts have ruled that the search
[02:44:13.480 --> 02:44:14.920]  warrants are legal.
[02:44:14.920 --> 02:44:16.400]  So you're right.
[02:44:16.400 --> 02:44:18.520]  There is something of a conflict there.
[02:44:18.520 --> 02:44:22.840]  And I think that law enforcement agencies that are determined to do something about
[02:44:22.840 --> 02:44:28.160]  this problem are going to take what's available to them, whether it's a statute or a court
[02:44:28.160 --> 02:44:31.840]  decision and use it to stop drunk driving.
[02:44:31.840 --> 02:44:32.840]  Yes.
[02:44:32.840 --> 02:44:37.960]  And yeah, and we'll have to use the statutes that say that what they're doing is illegal
[02:44:37.960 --> 02:44:42.200]  and do something about that ourselves because I mean, obviously we've got conflicting law
[02:44:42.200 --> 02:44:47.400]  here and conflicting case law as well.
[02:44:47.400 --> 02:44:58.200]  And we're all walking a tightrope here, looking for a way to find that fine line between giving
[02:44:58.200 --> 02:45:06.440]  up all our rights and giving up our right to stay alive because I was in Vietnam for
[02:45:06.440 --> 02:45:09.000]  one year.
[02:45:09.000 --> 02:45:14.920]  More people were killed at the time on the highways than were killed in one year than
[02:45:14.920 --> 02:45:17.880]  were killed in all of Vietnam.
[02:45:17.880 --> 02:45:22.440]  So this is an extremely difficult problem.
[02:45:22.440 --> 02:45:23.440]  It is.
[02:45:23.440 --> 02:45:26.760]  And I think if you work for an organization like MAD that comes face to face with the
[02:45:26.760 --> 02:45:30.840]  people who've been affected by drunk driving every single day, their family members have
[02:45:30.840 --> 02:45:37.120]  suffered very serious injuries, their loved ones have been killed, those people demand
[02:45:37.120 --> 02:45:39.600]  and want a better system also.
[02:45:39.600 --> 02:45:45.000]  They want to know that they can be involved and it can help make change that will prevent
[02:45:45.000 --> 02:45:47.520]  somebody else from going through what they did.
[02:45:47.520 --> 02:45:48.520]  Yes.
[02:45:48.520 --> 02:45:54.280]  I'm originally from North Texas near Fort Worth and in Weatherford, Texas, west of Fort
[02:45:54.280 --> 02:46:02.440]  Worth, a drunk driver crossed the center medium and hit a carload of teenagers head on, killed
[02:46:02.440 --> 02:46:05.440]  them all.
[02:46:05.440 --> 02:46:15.720]  Two years later, first DUI, a Weatherford jury gave the man 99 years.
[02:46:15.720 --> 02:46:22.960]  They said, no more killing our teenagers in Weatherford County.
[02:46:22.960 --> 02:46:31.720]  And while that seemed excessive and I believe the jury knew full well that that excessive
[02:46:31.720 --> 02:46:37.360]  sentence would never stand, I absolutely had to agree with the sentiment.
[02:46:37.360 --> 02:46:38.360]  Yeah.
[02:46:38.360 --> 02:46:42.640]  If you're referring to the crash in which four young girls were killed, that sounds
[02:46:42.640 --> 02:46:43.640]  familiar.
[02:46:43.640 --> 02:46:47.480]  And yes, we did track that case very, very carefully and those family members are still
[02:46:47.480 --> 02:46:51.640]  involved in trying to change the system and make stronger laws.
[02:46:51.640 --> 02:46:56.520]  And I was talking to a few people after the forum today and we were talking about what
[02:46:56.520 --> 02:46:58.160]  are the solutions to this problem.
[02:46:58.160 --> 02:47:04.400]  I think MAD and APD as well are very interested in engaging the public in hearing comments
[02:47:04.400 --> 02:47:10.400]  like those we heard tonight as to what is going to stop the slaughter on the highways.
[02:47:10.400 --> 02:47:16.160]  And as I said in my closing comments, I agree that education is so important, but it's not
[02:47:16.160 --> 02:47:17.560]  the only answer.
[02:47:17.560 --> 02:47:24.920]  I think strong laws are a strong deterrent and we need strong laws and certainly to enforce
[02:47:24.920 --> 02:47:25.920]  those laws.
[02:47:25.920 --> 02:47:26.920]  Yes.
[02:47:26.920 --> 02:47:35.320]  And our focus and after 30 years of researching the problem, it appears that the police are
[02:47:35.320 --> 02:47:40.360]  not the problem and actually the prosecutors are not the problem.
[02:47:40.360 --> 02:47:44.840]  And while I focus on the judges, they're not even the problem.
[02:47:44.840 --> 02:47:52.040]  I think it was your third question was from a criminal defense attorney.
[02:47:52.040 --> 02:47:55.120]  They are the problem.
[02:47:55.120 --> 02:48:01.880]  They are the ones that have allowed the criminal justice system to deteriorate to the point
[02:48:01.880 --> 02:48:06.960]  to where a criminal charge is now has little to do with guilt or innocence.
[02:48:06.960 --> 02:48:08.520]  It's all about a negotiation.
[02:48:08.520 --> 02:48:09.520]  It's all about some...
[02:48:09.520 --> 02:48:10.520]  About the deal.
[02:48:10.520 --> 02:48:11.520]  Yeah.
[02:48:11.520 --> 02:48:15.800]  If you got plenty of money, no problem, you can negotiate it all away and just pay a little
[02:48:15.800 --> 02:48:18.800]  money and go back out there and do the same thing.
[02:48:18.800 --> 02:48:19.960]  I'm not going to argue.
[02:48:19.960 --> 02:48:25.000]  I think defense attorneys, if they have a client who's had one or more DWIs could serve
[02:48:25.000 --> 02:48:26.000]  a huge...
[02:48:26.000 --> 02:48:35.160]  They could be a big benefit to their clients in making sure, guiding them towards counselors
[02:48:35.160 --> 02:48:40.600]  and to getting the kind of help they need instead of just assuring them that what they
[02:48:40.600 --> 02:48:44.280]  did wasn't so bad after all and setting them right back out on the road again.
[02:48:44.280 --> 02:48:49.120]  I think they could, as could medical doctors, in evaluating people more carefully when they
[02:48:49.120 --> 02:48:56.240]  come in for annual checkups just to see what is their alcohol use and just guide them,
[02:48:56.240 --> 02:49:01.040]  make them think about whether or not they ought to be looking for some kind of counseling.
[02:49:01.040 --> 02:49:02.040]  Yes.
[02:49:02.040 --> 02:49:10.240]  My comment wasn't about the attorneys not trying to make their clients look good.
[02:49:10.240 --> 02:49:16.000]  My concern was that defense attorneys are the only ones in a position to ensure that
[02:49:16.000 --> 02:49:22.880]  the judges and the prosecutors and everybody else follow law and they haven't done that.
[02:49:22.880 --> 02:49:28.200]  The legal system has got terribly out of hand.
[02:49:28.200 --> 02:49:32.080]  We're looking at going after primarily the judges.
[02:49:32.080 --> 02:49:37.320]  I can go after the prosecutors, I mean the defense counsels, secondarily, but the judges
[02:49:37.320 --> 02:49:38.640]  are the problem.
[02:49:38.640 --> 02:49:40.120]  They're not doing their jobs.
[02:49:40.120 --> 02:49:45.360]  Attorneys are accepting plea bargains they know are bogus.
[02:49:45.360 --> 02:49:48.840]  They know should not go through the courts.
[02:49:48.840 --> 02:49:54.360]  Not only from third and fourth time offenders, but from people who should never have been
[02:49:54.360 --> 02:49:57.000]  there in the first place.
[02:49:57.000 --> 02:50:04.560]  If we start prosecuting the guilty and properly adjudicating those who are not, we'll get
[02:50:04.560 --> 02:50:10.720]  more respect for the law and the law can get more teeth in it if we stop pleading everybody
[02:50:10.720 --> 02:50:11.720]  out on the streets.
[02:50:11.720 --> 02:50:15.560]  I'm not going to argue that.
[02:50:15.560 --> 02:50:17.040]  Thank you for joining us, Karen.
[02:50:17.040 --> 02:50:18.440]  We really appreciate it.
[02:50:18.440 --> 02:50:19.440]  You bet.
[02:50:19.440 --> 02:50:20.440]  Okay.
[02:50:20.440 --> 02:50:21.440]  We have more interviews coming up.
[02:50:21.440 --> 02:50:26.160]  We've got John Bush here from Texans for Accountable Governments.
[02:50:26.160 --> 02:50:27.160]  Okay.
[02:50:27.160 --> 02:50:29.120]  That's John Bush.
[02:50:29.120 --> 02:50:30.120]  No relation.
[02:50:30.120 --> 02:50:31.120]  All right.
[02:50:31.120 --> 02:50:35.840]  All right, John, and thank you, Karen.
[02:50:35.840 --> 02:50:37.640]  Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
[02:50:37.640 --> 02:50:38.640]  All right.
[02:50:38.640 --> 02:50:39.640]  Thank you, John.
[02:50:39.640 --> 02:50:41.880]  John, thanks for joining us tonight.
[02:50:41.880 --> 02:50:46.160]  How do you feel about how the forum went tonight?
[02:50:46.160 --> 02:50:48.080]  I think it couldn't have gone any better.
[02:50:48.080 --> 02:50:49.080]  All right.
[02:50:49.080 --> 02:50:50.080]  Well, very good.
[02:50:50.080 --> 02:50:58.240]  I was quite impressed with your level of knowledge and your ability to articulate that knowledge.
[02:50:58.240 --> 02:50:59.240]  Thank you.
[02:50:59.240 --> 02:51:00.240]  Thank you.
[02:51:00.240 --> 02:51:01.240]  Thank you for the opportunity.
[02:51:01.240 --> 02:51:02.240]  And it's pretty intricate.
[02:51:02.240 --> 02:51:03.240]  I think it just illustrates.
[02:51:03.240 --> 02:51:07.000]  The amount of studying that I had to do further illustrates how many DWI laws we actually
[02:51:07.000 --> 02:51:10.160]  have and in turn how they bog down the court system.
[02:51:10.160 --> 02:51:14.320]  Well, you certainly handled them very well.
[02:51:14.320 --> 02:51:23.040]  And it is my hope that being doing what I do, I try not to have a particular issue other
[02:51:23.040 --> 02:51:27.960]  than everybody follow law.
[02:51:27.960 --> 02:51:28.960]  Pretty simple.
[02:51:28.960 --> 02:51:35.920]  But I felt like this went a very long way toward establishing that, especially some
[02:51:35.920 --> 02:51:41.400]  of your, the nature of your arguments I thought were especially astute.
[02:51:41.400 --> 02:51:46.200]  Now, okay, yeah, and I think I want to discuss with John, too, about what we found in the
[02:51:46.200 --> 02:51:47.200]  penal code.
[02:51:47.200 --> 02:51:48.200]  Oh, yes.
[02:51:48.200 --> 02:51:51.480]  Okay, so, okay, because you were talking about some case law, but in the-
[02:51:51.480 --> 02:51:52.480]  It's in penal.
[02:51:52.480 --> 02:51:53.480]  It's criminal.
[02:51:53.480 --> 02:51:54.480]  Okay, the Code of Criminal Procedure.
[02:51:54.480 --> 02:51:56.840]  I'm sorry, because you had told me it was a penal code and I looked it up and I forgot
[02:51:56.840 --> 02:51:57.840]  which one it was.
[02:51:57.840 --> 02:52:04.440]  The Code of Criminal Procedure, John, it says that people- thank you, Nancy, Nancy Robbins
[02:52:04.440 --> 02:52:07.280]  and Kay Brewer from Campaign for Liberty here.
[02:52:07.280 --> 02:52:08.280]  They've helped us out a lot.
[02:52:08.280 --> 02:52:09.280]  Thanks, ladies.
[02:52:09.280 --> 02:52:10.440]  From Texans for Accountable Government.
[02:52:10.440 --> 02:52:12.280]  And Texans for Accountable Government.
[02:52:12.280 --> 02:52:14.440]  You guys are the ones that did most of the work here.
[02:52:14.440 --> 02:52:23.120]  Okay, so in the Criminal Procedure Code, it says that they cannot forcefully extract biometric
[02:52:23.120 --> 02:52:26.560]  data, that they have to have the person's permission.
[02:52:26.560 --> 02:52:32.080]  And it also says that if the person is intoxicated, that they're incapable of giving permission.
[02:52:32.080 --> 02:52:36.600]  And so, that overrides the transportation code because it's a higher body of law.
[02:52:36.600 --> 02:52:39.960]  And so, what that means is that breathalyzers are illegal too, honestly.
[02:52:39.960 --> 02:52:41.440]  I stand corrected.
[02:52:41.440 --> 02:52:42.440]  She was right.
[02:52:42.440 --> 02:52:45.240]  I didn't realize you were referring to 3251.
[02:52:45.240 --> 02:52:49.800]  Yeah, and we never got to address this in the form, which was mainly the reason I came
[02:52:49.800 --> 02:52:50.800]  down here.
[02:52:50.800 --> 02:52:58.640]  3251 Penal Code makes it a felony to take biometric data from someone without their
[02:52:58.640 --> 02:52:59.640]  permission.
[02:52:59.640 --> 02:53:00.640]  Okay, so it is the Penal Code.
[02:53:00.640 --> 02:53:01.640]  You were right.
[02:53:01.640 --> 02:53:02.640]  Okay, I thought it was.
[02:53:02.640 --> 02:53:09.000]  I thought you were referring to, I think it's chapter, it's the first Code of Criminal Procedure,
[02:53:09.000 --> 02:53:12.600]  the 1.01 is definitions.
[02:53:12.600 --> 02:53:20.840]  And in there, it defines, it addresses consent, and it specifically states that a person who
[02:53:20.840 --> 02:53:29.800]  is mentally incompetent or intoxicated cannot give permission under law.
[02:53:29.800 --> 02:53:34.560]  And then the transportation code says, well, if you give drunk and drive, you give tacit
[02:53:34.560 --> 02:53:35.560]  permission.
[02:53:35.560 --> 02:53:40.040]  Yeah, but the Penal Code wins out though, because it's a higher body of law.
[02:53:40.040 --> 02:53:43.600]  Whenever there's conflict in law, the higher body of law will win.
[02:53:43.600 --> 02:53:45.760]  Right, and the Code of Criminal Procedure governs.
[02:53:45.760 --> 02:53:46.760]  It's like...
[02:53:46.760 --> 02:53:48.120]  And the Penal Code governs.
[02:53:48.120 --> 02:53:49.800]  With open records law.
[02:53:49.800 --> 02:53:55.840]  If you violate the open records law, the government code says that the prosecuting attorney may
[02:53:55.840 --> 02:53:59.040]  determine whether or not a crime has been committed.
[02:53:59.040 --> 02:54:05.100]  However, 2.03 of the Code of Criminal Procedure says that if a prosecutor attorney is made
[02:54:05.100 --> 02:54:09.520]  known that public officials violated law relating to his office, he shall present a complaint
[02:54:09.520 --> 02:54:10.960]  to the grand jury.
[02:54:10.960 --> 02:54:15.880]  So that gives it no discretion, the government code would give him discretion, Code of Criminal
[02:54:15.880 --> 02:54:16.880]  Procedure wins.
[02:54:16.880 --> 02:54:22.440]  Well, I think one of the obstacles to that, unfortunately, and correct me if I'm wrong,
[02:54:22.440 --> 02:54:26.560]  but the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals case, the Beeman v. Texas, I think it makes all
[02:54:26.560 --> 02:54:29.560]  the rest of that moot if they get a search warrant, unfortunately.
[02:54:29.560 --> 02:54:31.560]  Well, right, because with a search warrant...
[02:54:31.560 --> 02:54:34.560]  Yeah, with a search warrant, but that's different.
[02:54:34.560 --> 02:54:37.080]  With a search warrant, you don't have to give permission.
[02:54:37.080 --> 02:54:38.080]  That's right.
[02:54:38.080 --> 02:54:41.680]  The issue we're trying to address is these no refusal weekends and the very program of
[02:54:41.680 --> 02:54:45.800]  training the DWI Task Force to do the blood withdrawals during the no refusal weekend.
[02:54:45.800 --> 02:54:50.640]  So unfortunately, we're going to need to find some sort of judicial or legal remedy specifically
[02:54:50.640 --> 02:54:55.000]  dealing with whenever a judge gives a search warrant, because they're just checking these
[02:54:55.000 --> 02:54:56.240]  things off.
[02:54:56.240 --> 02:55:05.160]  A franks hearing, it challenges, well, what we're trying to promote would virtually end
[02:55:05.160 --> 02:55:06.160]  this problem.
[02:55:06.160 --> 02:55:09.800]  Listen, also, why don't you define what these no refusal weekends are?
[02:55:09.800 --> 02:55:12.920]  I mean, what does this mean, that they're just going to do it anyway?
[02:55:12.920 --> 02:55:14.600]  Do they still have to get search warrants?
[02:55:14.600 --> 02:55:16.400]  What is the deal with the no refusal?
[02:55:16.400 --> 02:55:17.400]  What does that mean?
[02:55:17.400 --> 02:55:22.360]  Well, before 2002 and before that dreaded Beeman v. Texas case, the police officers
[02:55:22.360 --> 02:55:30.000]  could only get a breath or blood sample without consent if there was an accident or if there
[02:55:30.000 --> 02:55:32.200]  was serious bodily harm.
[02:55:32.200 --> 02:55:38.400]  But since then, and post Beeman v. Texas, the police officers now have the ability to
[02:55:38.400 --> 02:55:42.800]  take blood forcibly in every event, as long as there is a search warrant.
[02:55:42.800 --> 02:55:47.080]  So what the no refusal weekend does is it harps on that, they bring in a 24 hour magistrate
[02:55:47.080 --> 02:55:51.600]  and effectively, if you are pulled over for suspicion of drunk driving, then they will
[02:55:51.600 --> 02:55:54.320]  take your blood by all means necessary.
[02:55:54.320 --> 02:55:55.320]  On the side of the road?
[02:55:55.320 --> 02:55:56.640]  No, not on the side of the road.
[02:55:56.640 --> 02:56:00.400]  They'll take you back to the court, to the jail house, which Schmerber v. California
[02:56:00.400 --> 02:56:05.840]  1966 U.S. Supreme Court specifically says that that practice is a bad practice and we
[02:56:05.840 --> 02:56:07.200]  should not be doing that.
[02:56:07.200 --> 02:56:12.160]  Okay, here's a problem with that.
[02:56:12.160 --> 02:56:20.560]  I'm not sure how the first case related, but in order to get a search warrant, you can't
[02:56:20.560 --> 02:56:23.600]  hold the person unless you have probable cause.
[02:56:23.600 --> 02:56:29.360]  If you need the search warrant to get probable cause, you can't hold the person in the interim.
[02:56:29.360 --> 02:56:34.840]  If you can arrest him for something else, you can hold him under the arrest.
[02:56:34.840 --> 02:56:42.480]  But if you don't have anything, like it's just a standard stop where they stop everybody,
[02:56:42.480 --> 02:56:44.480]  when they come to me, they don't have probable cause.
[02:56:44.480 --> 02:56:45.480]  That's right.
[02:56:45.480 --> 02:56:47.640]  That's why DWI checkpoints are on consultation.
[02:56:47.640 --> 02:56:55.280]  So if they attempt to hold me while they go get a search warrant, that period of confinement
[02:56:55.280 --> 02:56:59.280]  is aggravated kidnapping.
[02:56:59.280 --> 02:57:01.680]  In Texas, we have no false imprisonment statute.
[02:57:01.680 --> 02:57:04.720]  The statute is kidnapping.
[02:57:04.720 --> 02:57:09.720]  Kidnapping 20.03 is defined as abduction.
[02:57:09.720 --> 02:57:16.400]  If you commit abduction while displaying a deadly weapon, that's 20.04, it's aggravated
[02:57:16.400 --> 02:57:17.400]  kidnapping.
[02:57:17.400 --> 02:57:21.120]  And that's what we need to charge them with.
[02:57:21.120 --> 02:57:26.720]  If we charge the policeman with it, it doesn't matter what the court said.
[02:57:26.720 --> 02:57:32.040]  The policeman are going to tell the chief, Bubba, you want to hold him?
[02:57:32.040 --> 02:57:33.720]  You come home.
[02:57:33.720 --> 02:57:36.760]  I'm not doing it.
[02:57:36.760 --> 02:57:41.720]  I will be going after police officers, but I'm not after the police officers.
[02:57:41.720 --> 02:57:43.280]  I want to help them out.
[02:57:43.280 --> 02:57:45.120]  I want to give them plausible deniability.
[02:57:45.120 --> 02:57:51.200]  I may have to kick them in the behind to get it, but life is tough.
[02:57:51.200 --> 02:57:57.240]  Now John, I wanted to ask you a question too about this event.
[02:57:57.240 --> 02:58:02.000]  Was this organized by Texans for Accountable Government or was this a public hearing put
[02:58:02.000 --> 02:58:03.880]  on by the city?
[02:58:03.880 --> 02:58:07.480]  This was, well the chief on July 10th sent a memo to the city council saying it was his
[02:58:07.480 --> 02:58:10.400]  intent if he were to go through with this program to host a public forum.
[02:58:10.400 --> 02:58:11.400]  He never did.
[02:58:11.400 --> 02:58:15.760]  So, Texans for Accountable Government had to call him on that and ensure that the citizens
[02:58:15.760 --> 02:58:21.400]  had the opportunity to have their voices heard, and I think we did just that and that.
[02:58:21.400 --> 02:58:23.920]  So in other words, the city did not put this on?
[02:58:23.920 --> 02:58:24.920]  No.
[02:58:24.920 --> 02:58:26.920]  And anybody can do exactly what we did.
[02:58:26.920 --> 02:58:30.920]  All it takes is the sponsorship of one city council member in order to use the city council
[02:58:30.920 --> 02:58:35.440]  chambers or the city hall in any one of the rooms that they have.
[02:58:35.440 --> 02:58:37.480]  So we simply saw that there was a problem.
[02:58:37.480 --> 02:58:41.040]  The chief was pushing for this program pretty hard without getting public input.
[02:58:41.040 --> 02:58:45.120]  And as the democratic way goes, the chief cannot act, nor can the city council act unless
[02:58:45.120 --> 02:58:47.840]  they have the consent of the governed, which is we the people.
[02:58:47.840 --> 02:58:48.840]  Yeah, no kidding.
[02:58:48.840 --> 02:58:49.840]  That's right.
[02:58:49.840 --> 02:58:50.840]  Yeah.
[02:58:50.840 --> 02:58:57.560]  And he was saying that I think the councilman said that they actually could.
[02:58:57.560 --> 02:59:01.280]  And in effect, I think he's right.
[02:59:01.280 --> 02:59:06.960]  But the democratic process being what it is would be a really bad strategy.
[02:59:06.960 --> 02:59:07.960]  That's right.
[02:59:07.960 --> 02:59:11.160]  In the city of Austin, we tout ourselves on being this wonderful, liberal, democratic
[02:59:11.160 --> 02:59:13.160]  city where everybody participates actively.
[02:59:13.160 --> 02:59:16.800]  But unfortunately, the city council and local city government does not reflect that virtue
[02:59:16.800 --> 02:59:18.160]  that the citizens have.
[02:59:18.160 --> 02:59:21.460]  So we as Texans for Accountable Government, just like our name says, we're hoping to hold
[02:59:21.460 --> 02:59:25.760]  our elected officials accountable and bring back a true virtuous democratic process to
[02:59:25.760 --> 02:59:26.760]  the city of Austin.
[02:59:26.760 --> 02:59:32.520]  Well, and that's what we're doing too, because if they do what they should not do, if they
[02:59:32.520 --> 02:59:35.320]  break the law, well, then we're going to file criminal charges against them.
[02:59:35.320 --> 02:59:36.840]  We're going to bring them in front of the grand jury.
[02:59:36.840 --> 02:59:40.040]  That's how we're holding them accountable, because the voting booth doesn't seem to be
[02:59:40.040 --> 02:59:42.760]  working very well, because as we all know, the elections are rigged.
[02:59:42.760 --> 02:59:48.040]  We've got Mary Rennick here with us from Vote Rescue, and we'll get her up a little bit.
[02:59:48.040 --> 02:59:49.040]  Yes.
[02:59:49.040 --> 02:59:53.800]  It's good that we hit them from all angles, legislative, activist, judicial, the courts,
[02:59:53.800 --> 02:59:54.800]  jury, everything.
[02:59:54.800 --> 02:59:55.800]  Yes.
[02:59:55.800 --> 03:00:01.040]  Civil litigation, criminal charges, every way possible.
[03:00:01.040 --> 03:00:06.080]  Jack McClam calls it death by a thousand pinpricks, okay?
[03:00:06.080 --> 03:00:09.160]  It's like you just keep hitting them with these little pinpricks, and eventually they
[03:00:09.160 --> 03:00:11.920]  just bleed to death because they've got too many wounds.
[03:00:11.920 --> 03:00:15.000]  So we definitely are able to make a difference here.
[03:00:15.000 --> 03:00:20.880]  We're hoping that here pretty soon, we do a lot more than a pinprick.
[03:00:20.880 --> 03:00:22.200]  Yeah, absolutely.
[03:00:22.200 --> 03:00:30.640]  And apparently, we really, really got a turnout to the state legislature, the committee hearing
[03:00:30.640 --> 03:00:31.640]  this afternoon.
[03:00:31.640 --> 03:00:32.640]  Wonderful.
[03:00:32.640 --> 03:00:35.520]  We had Sheila Dean on, for those of you who may not have heard her at the beginning of
[03:00:35.520 --> 03:00:41.320]  the video, we had Sheila Dean on from 511campaign.org, and she was here reporting on what happened
[03:00:41.320 --> 03:00:48.320]  at the state capitol, and it seemed like there was such an overflow of opposition to the
[03:00:48.320 --> 03:00:54.200]  real ID being implemented here in Texas at that committee hearing that apparently they've
[03:00:54.200 --> 03:00:58.520]  euphemistically said that it's going to stay in committee, and so she believes that it's
[03:00:58.520 --> 03:00:59.520]  going to just stay there.
[03:00:59.520 --> 03:01:00.520]  It's a victory right there.
[03:01:00.520 --> 03:01:01.520]  I know.
[03:01:01.520 --> 03:01:02.520]  See?
[03:01:02.520 --> 03:01:07.360]  These committees, committee hearings, there'd be four or five people there.
[03:01:07.360 --> 03:01:14.680]  I went to the committee hearing to sunset the bar, there were about 15 or 20 people
[03:01:14.680 --> 03:01:15.680]  there.
[03:01:15.680 --> 03:01:21.160]  Ken Magnuson, that we've had on the show, went to a hearing to sunset the Judicial Conduct
[03:01:21.160 --> 03:01:28.600]  Commission, and a few months later, his brother, who's an attorney, came to him and he said,
[03:01:28.600 --> 03:01:33.680]  what is going on with the Judicial Conduct Commission, they're going after all these
[03:01:33.680 --> 03:01:34.680]  judges?
[03:01:34.680 --> 03:01:38.080]  And Ken played him the tape.
[03:01:38.080 --> 03:01:45.320]  After his speech to the commission, they fired the director, they put in the director's place
[03:01:45.320 --> 03:01:49.080]  the most aggressive prosecutor they had and doubled their budget.
[03:01:49.080 --> 03:01:55.400]  Yes, and in San Marcos, also after Catherine Albrecht's testimony and the major opposition,
[03:01:55.400 --> 03:02:00.520]  groundswell of opposition down there for the mandatory RFID chip implanting of everyone's
[03:02:00.520 --> 03:02:05.240]  pets, apparently San Marcos City Council is backing down off of that too.
[03:02:05.240 --> 03:02:06.240]  There you go.
[03:02:06.240 --> 03:02:12.080]  So maybe we've succeeded in sending a strong message to our city council now because city
[03:02:12.080 --> 03:02:17.640]  council does have to approve this, that the police chief can't just go and just do this.
[03:02:17.640 --> 03:02:22.440]  Yeah, and we're definitely, the tide is starting to turn in favor of liberty.
[03:02:22.440 --> 03:02:26.600]  I know there's some out there that would have you believe that there is a monster conspiracy
[03:02:26.600 --> 03:02:31.200]  that's all powerful and all consuming and we're all doomed, but we're not all doomed.
[03:02:31.200 --> 03:02:35.560]  The powers that be are not as powerful as they would have you think and the people do
[03:02:35.560 --> 03:02:38.920]  actually have power, but it's so important that everybody actually show up to these events
[03:02:38.920 --> 03:02:42.200]  and we were able to turn out a large crowd tonight and at the committee hearing for the
[03:02:42.200 --> 03:02:43.200]  Real ID Act.
[03:02:43.200 --> 03:02:47.440]  So I think it's important that people continue to participate and right now, as we gain this
[03:02:47.440 --> 03:02:51.740]  momentum, we all need to kick it up a notch and be sure that we do all that we can to
[03:02:51.740 --> 03:02:54.800]  restore liberty to the wonderful United States of America.
[03:02:54.800 --> 03:02:55.800]  Yes.
[03:02:55.800 --> 03:02:56.800]  Absolutely.
[03:02:56.800 --> 03:03:03.200]  There have always been these influences to take our liberty and there have always been
[03:03:03.200 --> 03:03:06.800]  influences to maintain our liberty.
[03:03:06.800 --> 03:03:11.720]  Don't let anyone tell you that this game is already over.
[03:03:11.720 --> 03:03:17.560]  Right now we're at a point of a window of opportunity.
[03:03:17.560 --> 03:03:20.340]  The giant is beginning to awaken.
[03:03:20.340 --> 03:03:24.320]  On this show, we used to talk about people who were asleep and who are awake.
[03:03:24.320 --> 03:03:26.680]  We don't talk about that anymore.
[03:03:26.680 --> 03:03:30.560]  If you're not awake now, you're in a coma.
[03:03:30.560 --> 03:03:35.720]  The whole country realizes now that there's a big problem.
[03:03:35.720 --> 03:03:39.600]  I have a brother-in-law who's much older than me and he always knew everything and we were
[03:03:39.600 --> 03:03:42.400]  always do nothing.
[03:03:42.400 --> 03:03:47.520]  He actually admitted recently that maybe I was right.
[03:03:47.520 --> 03:03:50.600]  I took that as a sign from above.
[03:03:50.600 --> 03:03:52.400]  Well, yeah, really.
[03:03:52.400 --> 03:03:53.920]  We are making a difference here.
[03:03:53.920 --> 03:03:58.800]  John, why don't you let us know what else you guys are working on at Texans for Accountable
[03:03:58.800 --> 03:04:03.840]  Government and how this organization came about.
[03:04:03.840 --> 03:04:09.160]  Well, we were basically, after the Ron Paul campaign here in Travis County, we decided
[03:04:09.160 --> 03:04:13.960]  that we need to keep the organization together and we have all learned, especially judging
[03:04:13.960 --> 03:04:17.920]  from the Ron Paul campaign on the national level, but more so judging from the outcry
[03:04:17.920 --> 03:04:22.040]  that came out against the bailout package, that unfortunately the leverage that we have
[03:04:22.040 --> 03:04:24.800]  at the federal government is minimal if none.
[03:04:24.800 --> 03:04:30.240]  We decided that we are going to use our power in a position where we can enact the most
[03:04:30.240 --> 03:04:33.000]  change and have the most leverage and that is at the local level.
[03:04:33.000 --> 03:04:36.400]  We formed Texans for Accountable Government as a nonprofit political action committee.
[03:04:36.400 --> 03:04:41.040]  Our mission is to advance the causes of liberty by means of nonpartisan local activism and
[03:04:41.040 --> 03:04:42.040]  we're doing just that.
[03:04:42.040 --> 03:04:46.160]  A couple of the operations, three of the operations we're working on right now, one of them is
[03:04:46.160 --> 03:04:51.440]  Operation Stop Vampire Cops and this was one of the first, this is the big battle, this
[03:04:51.440 --> 03:04:54.880]  was the second battle that we've had in this front and I do think that the tide is turning
[03:04:54.880 --> 03:04:55.880]  on that one as well.
[03:04:55.880 --> 03:05:00.800]  It's also Stop Vampire Cops, but it's also Stop LUI, which is legislating under the influence.
[03:05:00.800 --> 03:05:04.680]  So we're going to be coming out against those DWI checkpoints in a very big way.
[03:05:04.680 --> 03:05:07.560]  One of them just got passed through the Senate today, it's going to make its way to the Texas
[03:05:07.560 --> 03:05:12.920]  legislature and you can guarantee that it'll meet some very fierce opposition.
[03:05:12.920 --> 03:05:16.880]  Other than that, we have Operation EEEE and that's elect a local liberty lover and we're
[03:05:16.880 --> 03:05:20.360]  working very hard on the campaign for Sam Oseminy, he's running for City Council Place
[03:05:20.360 --> 03:05:23.160]  Six, his website is oseminysam.com.
[03:05:23.160 --> 03:05:27.920]  Also our very own steering committee member, Erika Grino, is running for Pflugerville City
[03:05:27.920 --> 03:05:32.360]  Council Place Six, that's Erika for the number four Pflugerville.com.
[03:05:32.360 --> 03:05:36.360]  Also Lisa Mallory is running for Leander ISD, so we're going to use a lot of our power and
[03:05:36.360 --> 03:05:40.680]  energy to try and get some local liberty lovers here in office so we can start turning the
[03:05:40.680 --> 03:05:42.520]  tide at the legislative level.
[03:05:42.520 --> 03:05:46.640]  And then one of my biggies, this is one of my pet projects, it's called Operation Defuse
[03:05:46.640 --> 03:05:51.380]  Texas and I'm sure everybody heard of, the Missouri Information Analysis Center recently
[03:05:51.380 --> 03:05:57.120]  put out a document called the Modern Militia Movement, which effectively implies that Ron
[03:05:57.120 --> 03:06:02.200]  Paul supporters and libertarians and Campaign for Liberty supporters could be more than
[03:06:02.200 --> 03:06:07.160]  likely our militiamen and in turn scary evil terrorists that need to be dealt with.
[03:06:07.160 --> 03:06:10.760]  We have a fusion center, there's actually three of them here in the state of Texas,
[03:06:10.760 --> 03:06:14.320]  one of them is the North Central Texas Fusion Center in Collin County, one of them is in
[03:06:14.320 --> 03:06:18.080]  Houston and there's one of them, the Texas Intelligence Center, here in the city of Austin
[03:06:18.080 --> 03:06:19.840]  at the DPS complex.
[03:06:19.840 --> 03:06:25.320]  In December, the Austin Police Department will begin operating its own fusion center
[03:06:25.320 --> 03:06:29.680]  that will be in contact with the other local jurisdictions around Central Texas and for
[03:06:29.680 --> 03:06:32.840]  those of you who don't know what a fusion center is, it's basically an apparatus, an
[03:06:32.840 --> 03:06:37.360]  intelligence gathering apparatus that has the ability to collect, analyze and distribute
[03:06:37.360 --> 03:06:39.720]  data on innocent Americans.
[03:06:39.720 --> 03:06:43.920]  I believe the, of course, purpose, I'm under the impression that the entire anti-terror
[03:06:43.920 --> 03:06:47.680]  apparatus was developed in order to keep the dissidents back, in order to keep threats
[03:06:47.680 --> 03:06:49.480]  to the establishment at bay.
[03:06:49.480 --> 03:06:54.440]  So unfortunately, history has shown that as well in other states, they are using the fusion
[03:06:54.440 --> 03:06:58.480]  center against local activists and against peaceful protesters and we are already in
[03:06:58.480 --> 03:07:02.680]  talks with the Chief of Police and his Department of Homeland Security liaison, Chief of Staff
[03:07:02.680 --> 03:07:06.840]  David Carter and I can assure you, you activists in the city of Austin, that we're doing all
[03:07:06.840 --> 03:07:11.400]  we can to ensure that this massive leviathan monstrosity known as the fusion center will
[03:07:11.400 --> 03:07:16.080]  never be used against peaceful protesters, peaceful activists and any Texas resident
[03:07:16.080 --> 03:07:18.200]  who has not been suspected of a crime.
[03:07:18.200 --> 03:07:22.640]  Well, I'm wondering if there's, what the legality is behind these fusion centers in
[03:07:22.640 --> 03:07:26.680]  general just at all, you know, because it's my understanding that these jurisdictions
[03:07:26.680 --> 03:07:35.680]  are separate and intermingling them often has very dramatic, disastrous legal ramifications
[03:07:35.680 --> 03:07:40.200]  on the part of law enforcement, okay, because they find themselves in these pickles where
[03:07:40.200 --> 03:07:42.480]  they're exercising authority that they don't have.
[03:07:42.480 --> 03:07:45.080]  It is the nature of government.
[03:07:45.080 --> 03:07:48.040]  So, Randy, what's the deal with the fusion centers?
[03:07:48.040 --> 03:07:52.400]  It sounds, I mean, just from what John is explaining, it sounds to me like just fusion
[03:07:52.400 --> 03:07:59.920]  centers in and of themselves don't really have a legal, any legal backup to, I mean,
[03:07:59.920 --> 03:08:05.200]  where's the authorization, where's the statute that authorizes them to exist?
[03:08:05.200 --> 03:08:09.360]  I mean, they can't, but that has nothing to do with Texas statute.
[03:08:09.360 --> 03:08:13.600]  There's Texas statute enabling them, their creation, unfortunately, it's all federal
[03:08:13.600 --> 03:08:16.000]  funds again though, it always emanates from the federal level.
[03:08:16.000 --> 03:08:18.080]  Then we need to look at the federal funds.
[03:08:18.080 --> 03:08:23.240]  How are we doing on the 10th Amendment?
[03:08:23.240 --> 03:08:24.240]  That's true.
[03:08:24.240 --> 03:08:28.920]  Well, it's, they got some really, I mean, they sat down with a lot of lawyers and developed
[03:08:28.920 --> 03:08:31.600]  a process for skirting the law.
[03:08:31.600 --> 03:08:38.200]  For example, it's CFR 28, which was, I think it's from 1996 or something, was Bill Clinton's
[03:08:38.200 --> 03:08:42.320]  an executive order that was actually good, which protected the privacy of we the people.
[03:08:42.320 --> 03:08:49.400]  And it says that intelligence gathering apparatus, apparatus, I guess, cannot house intelligence
[03:08:49.400 --> 03:08:53.280]  or databases on individuals that are not suspected of a crime.
[03:08:53.280 --> 03:08:56.280]  So the way that they get around this, this is one of the essence, one of the cores of
[03:08:56.280 --> 03:09:00.480]  the fusion center, one of the purposes of the fusion center is they basically share
[03:09:00.480 --> 03:09:04.880]  data rather than having one massive central database, which many people have in their
[03:09:04.880 --> 03:09:05.880]  mind.
[03:09:05.880 --> 03:09:09.960]  They have the ability and with through massive supercomputers to take bits and pieces of
[03:09:09.960 --> 03:09:11.760]  data from the various jurisdictions.
[03:09:11.760 --> 03:09:13.280]  So that's kind of the way they skirt around it.
[03:09:13.280 --> 03:09:16.040]  It's not housed in one central fusion center.
[03:09:16.040 --> 03:09:20.920]  However, the technology and the software that is apparent with the fusion center allows
[03:09:20.920 --> 03:09:25.160]  them to take bits and pieces of data from here and there.
[03:09:25.160 --> 03:09:28.880]  So I think that's how they're actually skirting that executive order that is supposed to protect
[03:09:28.880 --> 03:09:29.880]  us from that.
[03:09:29.880 --> 03:09:33.480]  Well, that sounds to me like then they're setting themselves up to be able to obtain
[03:09:33.480 --> 03:09:35.720]  evidence without a warrant.
[03:09:35.720 --> 03:09:40.040]  Okay, because it rather than going to the courts or going to a magistrate to secure
[03:09:40.040 --> 03:09:44.000]  a warrant, why not just hit up one of these fusion centers?
[03:09:44.000 --> 03:09:45.480]  That just doesn't seem right to me.
[03:09:45.480 --> 03:09:51.040]  There's something about this that completely circumvents due process.
[03:09:51.040 --> 03:09:54.960]  Kevin Albrecht addresses this issue.
[03:09:54.960 --> 03:10:06.400]  We are at a time in our history where we are advancing so fast that our technology is outrunning
[03:10:06.400 --> 03:10:07.400]  of sophistication.
[03:10:07.400 --> 03:10:14.280]  Yeah, but Randy, even if it does, where's the law that allows these certain jurisdictions
[03:10:14.280 --> 03:10:18.480]  to get evidence against somebody from some other jurisdiction?
[03:10:18.480 --> 03:10:23.720]  I mean, that's the whole point of why they have to go to a judge and get a search warrant.
[03:10:23.720 --> 03:10:24.720]  Okay?
[03:10:24.720 --> 03:10:29.760]  They don't if they gather the information legally.
[03:10:29.760 --> 03:10:30.880]  And that's the problem.
[03:10:30.880 --> 03:10:34.400]  There are so many sources of information now.
[03:10:34.400 --> 03:10:36.600]  They know everything about you.
[03:10:36.600 --> 03:10:41.320]  Yeah, but how is it legal for one jurisdiction to obtain information and have it on file
[03:10:41.320 --> 03:10:46.960]  and then another jurisdiction can just go and tap into that different jurisdictions database?
[03:10:46.960 --> 03:10:48.640]  I don't see how that's legal.
[03:10:48.640 --> 03:10:58.320]  I don't know what the statutes are, but the statutes that establish the NCIC system, National
[03:10:58.320 --> 03:11:05.720]  Criminal Intelligence, Criminal Information Center, where all the states participate and
[03:11:05.720 --> 03:11:14.640]  post their criminal information with a central database controlled by the Fed, by the FBI.
[03:11:14.640 --> 03:11:20.000]  See, again here, it seems like we're getting, it's like everything's moving off of what
[03:11:20.000 --> 03:11:21.320]  the real issue is, okay?
[03:11:21.320 --> 03:11:23.360]  Because now we're getting back to the Fed.
[03:11:23.360 --> 03:11:26.800]  To me, that's not really the issue.
[03:11:26.800 --> 03:11:31.840]  The issue is at the local level, at our state level, okay?
[03:11:31.840 --> 03:11:34.640]  What authorizes them to do that?
[03:11:34.640 --> 03:11:37.760]  I don't care if the Fed's authorized it.
[03:11:37.760 --> 03:11:40.360]  I want to see that our state authorizes it.
[03:11:40.360 --> 03:11:45.640]  All of the states are authorized to load all their information into NCIC.
[03:11:45.640 --> 03:11:49.640]  So that gets it into a central database where all the rest of them can get at it.
[03:11:49.640 --> 03:11:53.880]  Well, a lot of the data that they're collecting is in fact public data.
[03:11:53.880 --> 03:11:57.180]  They're just having the ability to just grab it all from everywhere.
[03:11:57.180 --> 03:12:00.560]  Somebody could make the argument that your credit card transactions now, especially post
[03:12:00.560 --> 03:12:04.640]  9-11 with the Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act, is public data.
[03:12:04.640 --> 03:12:05.640]  So they just have the ability.
[03:12:05.640 --> 03:12:06.640]  They're pulling it from everywhere.
[03:12:06.640 --> 03:12:10.600]  It goes as far as to include a private sector component in where they have advocated for
[03:12:10.600 --> 03:12:13.080]  grabbing the closed circuit television feeds.
[03:12:13.080 --> 03:12:16.980]  Now one of the things that concerns me, and this is where we can have some legal judicial
[03:12:16.980 --> 03:12:21.520]  restraint on them, is when the suspicious activity report.
[03:12:21.520 --> 03:12:24.800]  There's something called suspicious activity reports, which there's actually the Director
[03:12:24.800 --> 03:12:25.800]  of National Intelligence.
[03:12:25.800 --> 03:12:29.680]  And again, it always emanates from the federal level, has suspicious activity report guidelines
[03:12:29.680 --> 03:12:33.720]  which mandate every police officer to fill out a suspicious activity report.
[03:12:33.720 --> 03:12:36.800]  You may have heard this from Infowars or something back in the day, because this is what they
[03:12:36.800 --> 03:12:38.040]  do in London.
[03:12:38.040 --> 03:12:42.400]  But basically, if you were to take a picture that has no apparent aesthetic value, and
[03:12:42.400 --> 03:12:48.320]  they point to a specific example, if you were to take a picture of law enforcement mechanisms
[03:12:48.320 --> 03:12:52.240]  or technology, then that triggers a suspicious activity report.
[03:12:52.240 --> 03:12:56.280]  If you were to question a police officer, they give another example, for example, what
[03:12:56.280 --> 03:12:57.840]  is that camera recording?
[03:12:57.840 --> 03:12:59.880]  That triggers a suspicious activity report.
[03:12:59.880 --> 03:13:03.160]  All these suspicious activity reports get gathered in this central database.
[03:13:03.160 --> 03:13:07.960]  Now according to the law, you're not allowed to tie an individual's name to the suspicious
[03:13:07.960 --> 03:13:11.680]  activity report because he is not yet a suspect of a crime.
[03:13:11.680 --> 03:13:15.840]  However, they do allow you to put the eye color, the height, the approximate weight.
[03:13:15.840 --> 03:13:18.280]  If you collect date on them, you could put their birth date and whatnot.
[03:13:18.280 --> 03:13:21.920]  So definitely anybody could put the puzzle pieces together and find out who that individual
[03:13:21.920 --> 03:13:22.920]  is.
[03:13:22.920 --> 03:13:26.480]  But one of the things we're going to focus on is the actual gathering of suspicious activity
[03:13:26.480 --> 03:13:31.560]  reports to ensure that they are only collecting them and maintaining them if this individual
[03:13:31.560 --> 03:13:34.080]  is in fact a suspect of a crime.
[03:13:34.080 --> 03:13:38.760]  Because once they become a suspect of a crime, then it opens up a whole purview of the ability
[03:13:38.760 --> 03:13:40.560]  for the government to collect information.
[03:13:40.560 --> 03:13:43.760]  But if it's just me questioning police officers about what these cameras are recording that
[03:13:43.760 --> 03:13:47.920]  are starting to come up all over Austin, then they have no right to hold that data in their
[03:13:47.920 --> 03:13:48.920]  database.
[03:13:48.920 --> 03:13:56.640]  Yeah, and that raised a question, if they're just holding the data generically, how would
[03:13:56.640 --> 03:14:04.320]  they refer it back to you unless they do as I would always suspect, have the information
[03:14:04.320 --> 03:14:07.880]  about who you are in there, they just don't make it public.
[03:14:07.880 --> 03:14:08.880]  That's right.
[03:14:08.880 --> 03:14:12.880]  And they're starting to set up, I see dossiers getting set up on each individual.
[03:14:12.880 --> 03:14:17.760]  And one of this thing that one of the abilities that this fusion center apparatus has is to
[03:14:17.760 --> 03:14:18.760]  grab.
[03:14:18.760 --> 03:14:23.720]  So say you're a suspect, and in my opinion, it's mainly being charged against activists.
[03:14:23.720 --> 03:14:28.160]  So I am making a big hubbub, and I'm actually knocking on the door of the very apparatus
[03:14:28.160 --> 03:14:30.840]  that is set up to monitor my activity.
[03:14:30.840 --> 03:14:34.840]  So say you are a very powerful activist in central Texas, and they start monitoring your
[03:14:34.840 --> 03:14:37.720]  activities to ensure that you don't become a threat that will actually prevent them to
[03:14:37.720 --> 03:14:40.400]  carry out whatever agenda they may have.
[03:14:40.400 --> 03:14:42.960]  I see that as being the purpose.
[03:14:42.960 --> 03:14:46.840]  So for example, the cameras that we're going to start having in central Texas in the city
[03:14:46.840 --> 03:14:50.000]  of Austin surveillance cameras, they're going to have human ID program.
[03:14:50.000 --> 03:14:53.320]  And by the way, I forgot to mention all of this fusion center technology all came from
[03:14:53.320 --> 03:14:57.640]  the total information awareness program in 2002 under the DARPA program, which of course
[03:14:57.640 --> 03:14:59.520]  was meant to protect us from terrorists.
[03:14:59.520 --> 03:15:02.760]  Now they're flipping it around with an all crimes approach, and they're using it on the
[03:15:02.760 --> 03:15:04.040]  American public.
[03:15:04.040 --> 03:15:08.660]  And there's so many instances where this mechanism, this fusion center apparatus, I could make
[03:15:08.660 --> 03:15:12.860]  a very strong argument that the purpose of it, one of the purposes of it is to keep tabs
[03:15:12.860 --> 03:15:17.480]  on activists to ensure that they are not getting too close to actually making a difference.
[03:15:17.480 --> 03:15:21.760]  So I say to the fusion center, I'm right here, sit down and talk.
[03:15:21.760 --> 03:15:25.920]  There's something that people who are not familiar with the nature of the technology
[03:15:25.920 --> 03:15:27.400]  may not understand.
[03:15:27.400 --> 03:15:34.120]  When you talk about building a dossier, most people my age thinks about a guy running around
[03:15:34.120 --> 03:15:38.920]  asking questions, writing notes in a notebook and sticking them in a folder.
[03:15:38.920 --> 03:15:39.920]  That's not like that.
[03:15:39.920 --> 03:15:44.400]  They just gather bits and pieces of information and they're laying around.
[03:15:44.400 --> 03:15:49.480]  And if you happen to decide you want some information on this guy, you put his name
[03:15:49.480 --> 03:15:57.280]  in these massive computers and the computer generates the dossier from all of this apparently
[03:15:57.280 --> 03:16:00.640]  innocuous information that's been floating around all this time.
[03:16:00.640 --> 03:16:06.000]  So you think, well, okay, they know where I went on Google, that's not a big deal.
[03:16:06.000 --> 03:16:11.920]  And they can pull in everything you've ever done at a keystroke.
[03:16:11.920 --> 03:16:14.840]  That becomes a very big deal.
[03:16:14.840 --> 03:16:18.160]  And one of the software that was developed as part of total information awareness, it's
[03:16:18.160 --> 03:16:22.640]  called Genoa and it gives the computer the ability to use complex algorithms that can
[03:16:22.640 --> 03:16:27.080]  take all of this massive amount of data that they have collected on individuals and analyze
[03:16:27.080 --> 03:16:32.680]  it to see if this individual may fit the pattern that they could potentially become a terrorist.
[03:16:32.680 --> 03:16:34.600]  And that's what I fear.
[03:16:34.600 --> 03:16:35.600]  Potentially become.
[03:16:35.600 --> 03:16:36.600]  That's right.
[03:16:36.600 --> 03:16:37.600]  That's right.
[03:16:37.600 --> 03:16:40.760]  Bad news bears.
[03:16:40.760 --> 03:16:47.560]  That is most frightening when they use algorithms to decide what we're going to become.
[03:16:47.560 --> 03:16:49.400]  Oh, well, it's worse than that.
[03:16:49.400 --> 03:16:57.360]  In England, they have these programs now where the social services look at the behavior history
[03:16:57.360 --> 03:17:03.920]  or criminal history of parents and then they deem that the child is going to have the same
[03:17:03.920 --> 03:17:05.160]  behavior pattern.
[03:17:05.160 --> 03:17:11.120]  And so they start putting the child in counseling for non-criminal behavior when they're like
[03:17:11.120 --> 03:17:12.120]  in kindergarten.
[03:17:12.120 --> 03:17:13.120]  Pre-emptive counseling.
[03:17:13.120 --> 03:17:14.120]  That's right.
[03:17:14.120 --> 03:17:17.640]  And especially if they're going along collecting all of our DNA, they're going to be able to
[03:17:17.640 --> 03:17:20.120]  track it for generations and generations.
[03:17:20.120 --> 03:17:23.320]  So your bloodline will have an alert on it.
[03:17:23.320 --> 03:17:24.320]  Incredible.
[03:17:24.320 --> 03:17:29.000]  You will get a petty criminal act on this day.
[03:17:29.000 --> 03:17:30.000]  That's right.
[03:17:30.000 --> 03:17:33.560]  This is a direct quote from the chief at Oak Hill Area Association of Neighborhoods.
[03:17:33.560 --> 03:17:36.720]  He said, with the fusion center, this is the first time I heard about it, we're going to
[03:17:36.720 --> 03:17:38.840]  have the ability to predict crime.
[03:17:38.840 --> 03:17:43.840]  And it's basically the minority report with a mix of 1984 and its reality.
[03:17:43.840 --> 03:17:47.680]  But the good news is, as you may have heard with the Missouri Information Analysis Center,
[03:17:47.680 --> 03:17:52.720]  the governor came on and the Missouri Department of Public Safety came back and they have retracted
[03:17:52.720 --> 03:17:56.960]  that modern militia movement document because all the activists, the Ron Paulers Campaign
[03:17:56.960 --> 03:18:00.380]  for Liberty, we all came together and made such a hubbub about it.
[03:18:00.380 --> 03:18:03.520]  But we are now in the process of determining the policies and the guidelines that will
[03:18:03.520 --> 03:18:05.600]  govern our fusion center here in central Texas.
[03:18:05.600 --> 03:18:08.840]  And like I said before, everybody, we need you to participate so we can ensure that this
[03:18:08.840 --> 03:18:15.080]  apparatus here in central Texas will not ever be used for any means besides what its proper
[03:18:15.080 --> 03:18:18.320]  role is, which is sharing intelligence about gangs and crimes and whatnot.
[03:18:18.320 --> 03:18:22.560]  And last time I checked, protest is not a crime.
[03:18:22.560 --> 03:18:27.000]  I liked what the chief said.
[03:18:27.000 --> 03:18:29.480]  We are our own worst enemy.
[03:18:29.480 --> 03:18:36.480]  And one of the things about the government as it grows, the government just cannot get
[03:18:36.480 --> 03:18:37.480]  it right.
[03:18:37.480 --> 03:18:46.400]  And that's one of the advantages we have going for us, because some moron actually wrote
[03:18:46.400 --> 03:18:48.600]  that document and put it out there.
[03:18:48.600 --> 03:18:52.400]  Well, what do you say, guys, I want to take some calls, you want to open up the phone
[03:18:52.400 --> 03:18:53.400]  lines?
[03:18:53.400 --> 03:18:54.400]  Absolutely.
[03:18:54.400 --> 03:18:55.400]  Okay, callers, we're going to open up the phone lines.
[03:18:55.400 --> 03:19:01.360]  If you'd like to call in 512-646-1984.
[03:19:01.360 --> 03:19:02.360]  So please call in.
[03:19:02.360 --> 03:19:06.760]  If you have any questions, if you'd like to talk to John Bush here from Texans for
[03:19:06.760 --> 03:19:10.640]  Accountable Government, you can call in and ask your questions.
[03:19:10.640 --> 03:19:12.920]  He's going to be with us for a few more minutes.
[03:19:12.920 --> 03:19:13.920]  Is that all right, John?
[03:19:13.920 --> 03:19:16.800]  Yeah, not to be confused with Jay or George.
[03:19:16.800 --> 03:19:17.800]  No relation whatsoever.
[03:19:17.800 --> 03:19:18.800]  Excellent.
[03:19:18.800 --> 03:19:19.800]  Wonderful.
[03:19:19.800 --> 03:19:26.200]  But I really enjoyed the meeting tonight.
[03:19:26.200 --> 03:19:32.880]  I thought it went extremely well, that the chief handled himself very well.
[03:19:32.880 --> 03:19:36.240]  I was impressed with him as a professional.
[03:19:36.240 --> 03:19:43.480]  And as a professional, I would expect that he will recognize the muddy waters he's wading
[03:19:43.480 --> 03:19:44.480]  into.
[03:19:44.480 --> 03:19:46.520]  Well, we would hope.
[03:19:46.520 --> 03:19:54.160]  I suspect he will, and if he doesn't, we intend to muddy up the waters a bit more for him.
[03:19:54.160 --> 03:20:00.960]  If I have my way, training his officers to take blood is going to become one of his least
[03:20:00.960 --> 03:20:01.960]  concerns.
[03:20:01.960 --> 03:20:02.960]  I'm right with you.
[03:20:02.960 --> 03:20:08.800]  We're hoping to use the city council as our means to prevent this by simply passing a
[03:20:08.800 --> 03:20:13.120]  resolution that states the practice of police blood withdrawals will not take place in the
[03:20:13.120 --> 03:20:14.120]  city of Austin.
[03:20:14.120 --> 03:20:16.200]  We're hoping Mike Martinez is on our side on this.
[03:20:16.200 --> 03:20:19.520]  He seemed to be pushing him back a little bit tonight in the question I answered him,
[03:20:19.520 --> 03:20:22.240]  but we're going to have meetings with him shortly, and hopefully we'll be able to get
[03:20:22.240 --> 03:20:25.760]  a majority of the council members to actually say, no, this is not going to take place because
[03:20:25.760 --> 03:20:28.720]  the chief is a very ambitious man, and he's got a lot of plans.
[03:20:28.720 --> 03:20:32.600]  And while he may tout that he respects the Constitution and wants to be accountable and
[03:20:32.600 --> 03:20:35.940]  respects what the city of Austin residents have to say, I think there's an element that's
[03:20:35.940 --> 03:20:38.920]  pushing him a little harder than we are.
[03:20:38.920 --> 03:20:42.320]  And he's been known, actually, to lay down to the federal government on several instances.
[03:20:42.320 --> 03:20:45.920]  He's brought in tyranny programs like license plate reading cameras to California Highway
[03:20:45.920 --> 03:20:48.240]  Patrol as well, so.
[03:20:48.240 --> 03:20:51.120]  We may need to rub him raw a little bit more.
[03:20:51.120 --> 03:20:52.120]  All right.
[03:20:52.120 --> 03:20:53.680]  And we do have some callers here.
[03:20:53.680 --> 03:20:56.680]  We've got Chris Emery from Oklahoma.
[03:20:56.680 --> 03:20:57.680]  Chris who?
[03:20:57.680 --> 03:20:58.680]  Well, I don't know.
[03:20:58.680 --> 03:21:02.160]  The Chris Emery I know, he's a broadcaster on this network.
[03:21:02.160 --> 03:21:03.640]  Chris, thanks for calling in.
[03:21:03.640 --> 03:21:04.640]  Hey, Deb.
[03:21:04.640 --> 03:21:05.640]  Thanks.
[03:21:05.640 --> 03:21:06.640]  And Randy, awesome.
[03:21:06.640 --> 03:21:11.320]  We really enjoyed listening to the broadcast here in Oklahoma City.
[03:21:11.320 --> 03:21:12.320]  Excellent sound quality.
[03:21:12.320 --> 03:21:13.320]  You guys did a great job.
[03:21:13.320 --> 03:21:14.320]  Thank you.
[03:21:14.320 --> 03:21:15.320]  John on the network.
[03:21:15.320 --> 03:21:19.960]  John, I understand, was on the former WTPRN, is that correct?
[03:21:19.960 --> 03:21:20.960]  Yes it is.
[03:21:20.960 --> 03:21:21.960]  Yes.
[03:21:21.960 --> 03:21:22.960]  Good job, John.
[03:21:22.960 --> 03:21:23.960]  You're on the network somehow.
[03:21:23.960 --> 03:21:24.960]  You're great.
[03:21:24.960 --> 03:21:25.960]  I mean, you're very well-spoken.
[03:21:25.960 --> 03:21:29.840]  I was impressed with your spontaneous, you know, answers and questions.
[03:21:29.840 --> 03:21:32.240]  And anyway, I just wanted to commend you guys.
[03:21:32.240 --> 03:21:34.960]  We are very proud to listen to the broadcast.
[03:21:34.960 --> 03:21:35.960]  You did an outstanding job.
[03:21:35.960 --> 03:21:37.680]  I know you've got a lot of people on the queue.
[03:21:37.680 --> 03:21:40.480]  I'll get out of the way and keep up the good work.
[03:21:40.480 --> 03:21:41.480]  All right.
[03:21:41.480 --> 03:21:42.480]  Thank you.
[03:21:42.480 --> 03:21:43.480]  Thank you, Chris.
[03:21:43.480 --> 03:21:44.480]  We really appreciate it.
[03:21:44.480 --> 03:21:45.480]  All right.
[03:21:45.480 --> 03:21:49.880]  That's Chris Emery from Radio Free Oklahoma on the line with us.
[03:21:49.880 --> 03:21:51.200]  We appreciate the phone call.
[03:21:51.200 --> 03:21:52.200]  All right.
[03:21:52.200 --> 03:21:53.200]  We are going to move on.
[03:21:53.200 --> 03:21:54.200]  We've got more callers on the line.
[03:21:54.200 --> 03:21:59.480]  We've got, we've got Kerry from Louisiana.
[03:21:59.480 --> 03:22:03.160]  Oops.
[03:22:03.160 --> 03:22:04.160]  My call screen just froze.
[03:22:04.160 --> 03:22:06.480]  Do you got your call screen up, Randy?
[03:22:06.480 --> 03:22:07.480]  Yes.
[03:22:07.480 --> 03:22:08.480]  Bring up Kerry from Louisiana.
[03:22:08.480 --> 03:22:09.480]  Kerry, you there?
[03:22:09.480 --> 03:22:10.480]  Yeah, I'm here.
[03:22:10.480 --> 03:22:11.480]  Excellent.
[03:22:11.480 --> 03:22:16.920]  Do you have a question or comment for our guests or about, in general, what happened
[03:22:16.920 --> 03:22:17.920]  tonight?
[03:22:17.920 --> 03:22:18.920]  Yes.
[03:22:18.920 --> 03:22:24.200]  I was listening to y'all's forum about the officers taking the blood and everything.
[03:22:24.200 --> 03:22:25.200]  Yes.
[03:22:25.200 --> 03:22:28.160]  We really got to get tough on this.
[03:22:28.160 --> 03:22:35.560]  I mean, I'm sitting here listening to this and it's like, you know, true enough, nobody
[03:22:35.560 --> 03:22:41.440]  wants to lose their brother, their sister, their child, their mother, their joint driver,
[03:22:41.440 --> 03:22:48.880]  a reckless operator, whatever the situation may be.
[03:22:48.880 --> 03:22:56.360]  But the thing is, is we have to understand you cannot infringe on one person's right
[03:22:56.360 --> 03:23:06.800]  to keep from testifying against themselves to protect someone else's life.
[03:23:06.800 --> 03:23:15.160]  You've got to kill that individually, that individual actually runs that red light and
[03:23:15.160 --> 03:23:21.680]  kills that person and at that point, they have committed a crime.
[03:23:21.680 --> 03:23:26.840]  If he leaves the bar and he is so blitzed, he can't stand up.
[03:23:26.840 --> 03:23:34.120]  If he makes it all the way home without killing anyone, he has not committed a crime.
[03:23:34.120 --> 03:23:36.880]  He's not harmed anyone.
[03:23:36.880 --> 03:23:37.880]  That's right.
[03:23:37.880 --> 03:23:38.880]  That's right.
[03:23:38.880 --> 03:23:44.800]  That's the main thing you have to stop and realize in this country, I can be sitting
[03:23:44.800 --> 03:23:52.000]  on top of the building, getting ready to shoot someone, which y'all had this incident in
[03:23:52.000 --> 03:23:53.000]  Austin.
[03:23:53.000 --> 03:23:54.000]  Charles Whitman.
[03:23:54.000 --> 03:23:55.000]  Yep.
[03:23:55.000 --> 03:24:00.440]  No one could actually legally stop that guy.
[03:24:00.440 --> 03:24:05.520]  The deputy sheriff could be standing there by that guy and he look at him and say, look,
[03:24:05.520 --> 03:24:09.760]  if you pull that trigger, you don't have to carry you to jail.
[03:24:09.760 --> 03:24:16.200]  No one can stop him until he actually squeezes that trigger because he has up until that
[03:24:16.200 --> 03:24:24.240]  point before he commits the crime and that's the biggest thing I listen to so many people
[03:24:24.240 --> 03:24:31.480]  for so many years, a billion of this since early 90s and everybody always wants to sugar
[03:24:31.480 --> 03:24:32.480]  coat it.
[03:24:32.480 --> 03:24:33.480]  Right.
[03:24:33.480 --> 03:24:39.480]  My heart goes out to organizations like MADD and everything because most of those people
[03:24:39.480 --> 03:24:45.480]  lost someone due to a drunk driver, but- Yeah, and it's unfortunate because they don't
[03:24:45.480 --> 03:24:50.080]  realize that what they're pushing for is not really going to help their cause and all it's
[03:24:50.080 --> 03:24:52.200]  going to do is hurt a lot more people.
[03:24:52.200 --> 03:25:01.400]  Yes, because let's take for instance, if you was to leave the show this afternoon and stop
[03:25:01.400 --> 03:25:04.800]  and get a beer- I probably will.
[03:25:04.800 --> 03:25:13.320]  You've got another beer and you drank half of that beer and you was half a block from
[03:25:13.320 --> 03:25:14.680]  your house.
[03:25:14.680 --> 03:25:21.160]  No one else on the street but you, you've got your DUI and you're going to suffer a
[03:25:21.160 --> 03:25:22.440]  lot of consequences.
[03:25:22.440 --> 03:25:30.280]  That money that you're going to have to pay out for a crime that is not a crime, you could
[03:25:30.280 --> 03:25:37.920]  have bought your child better clothes, better schools and so forth.
[03:25:37.920 --> 03:25:42.760]  You could have even went down to the homeless shelter and donated.
[03:25:42.760 --> 03:25:45.240]  Now what is that money used for?
[03:25:45.240 --> 03:25:52.920]  It's used to go back out into the streets and boss in prison more people that has not
[03:25:52.920 --> 03:25:57.920]  committed a crime.
[03:25:57.920 --> 03:26:00.680]  Absolutely, absolutely.
[03:26:00.680 --> 03:26:04.200]  I think what Mothers Against Drunk Driving fails to realize is we all agree that there's
[03:26:04.200 --> 03:26:11.320]  a massive DWI problem but if the remedy is of questionable constitutionality in any degree
[03:26:11.320 --> 03:26:12.520]  then you just can't go there.
[03:26:12.520 --> 03:26:15.860]  I'm sorry you have to take it off the table and I wish the chief of police and Mothers
[03:26:15.860 --> 03:26:19.960]  Against Drunk Driving would realize here in town, I'm sorry we cannot participate in this
[03:26:19.960 --> 03:26:25.320]  program the no refusal program or the blood withdrawals because it's just not constitutional.
[03:26:25.320 --> 03:26:32.680]  Yes it's not and apparently there is also some discrepancy over whether it's legal because
[03:26:32.680 --> 03:26:34.920]  there's conflicting law.
[03:26:34.920 --> 03:26:37.760]  All right Kerry thank you so much for calling in tonight.
[03:26:37.760 --> 03:26:40.200]  Let's move on to our other callers because we're stacking up the board.
[03:26:40.200 --> 03:26:41.200]  One more please.
[03:26:41.200 --> 03:26:42.200]  Okay.
[03:26:42.200 --> 03:26:51.000]  I'm going to my first trial for an officer.
[03:26:51.000 --> 03:26:58.120]  I present my case to grand jury the 6th of April and I'm going against the officer that
[03:26:58.120 --> 03:27:09.240]  falsely arrested me and if anybody out there can help me in doing this I've got a lot of
[03:27:09.240 --> 03:27:10.240]  information on it.
[03:27:10.240 --> 03:27:12.640]  Like I said I've been doing this since the early 90s.
[03:27:12.640 --> 03:27:20.880]  I don't wish to hit the officer with an aggravated kidnap charge but I want to wake them up so
[03:27:20.880 --> 03:27:27.920]  let me let me make a suggestion hit him with the aggravated kidnapping charge.
[03:27:27.920 --> 03:27:35.680]  Don't hit him with something lesser because if he really acted like a jerk the grand jury
[03:27:35.680 --> 03:27:41.000]  may be really ticked get really ticked off and can and indict him for something lesser.
[03:27:41.000 --> 03:27:45.040]  They're not going to indict him for aggravated kidnapping.
[03:27:45.040 --> 03:27:50.840]  Yeah that's right but he's not going to know that and he's going to worry about that.
[03:27:50.840 --> 03:27:57.920]  He took it on himself to call my employer and get me terminated from my job.
[03:27:57.920 --> 03:27:58.920]  Who did?
[03:27:58.920 --> 03:27:59.920]  Who did?
[03:27:59.920 --> 03:28:00.920]  The police officer.
[03:28:00.920 --> 03:28:06.480]  Oh now he could be sued for that.
[03:28:06.480 --> 03:28:11.240]  Maybe you can return the favor.
[03:28:11.240 --> 03:28:18.600]  I would love to call y'all at the office and maybe discuss maybe y'all can point me in
[03:28:18.600 --> 03:28:23.480]  the direction of getting some help in this because I've talked to attorneys locally and
[03:28:23.480 --> 03:28:25.480]  nobody wants to touch it.
[03:28:25.480 --> 03:28:26.480]  Right.
[03:28:26.480 --> 03:28:27.480]  Okay well send Randy an email.
[03:28:27.480 --> 03:28:29.120]  We actually don't have an office.
[03:28:29.120 --> 03:28:31.680]  Yeah you could call in on Friday night.
[03:28:31.680 --> 03:28:32.680]  We do a four hour show.
[03:28:32.680 --> 03:28:35.800]  Yeah we do a four hour show and we can have more time to discuss it then.
[03:28:35.800 --> 03:28:43.520]  Well I just saw y'all and I'm so glad to have found y'all too and y'all have a good night.
[03:28:43.520 --> 03:28:48.440]  Okay we are now going to go to Eddie in Texas.
[03:28:48.440 --> 03:28:49.440]  Eddie thanks for calling in.
[03:28:49.440 --> 03:28:50.440]  What's on your mind tonight?
[03:28:50.440 --> 03:28:56.440]  Well I listened to the majority of this tonight and I completely agree with Randy's question
[03:28:56.440 --> 03:29:01.680]  first off and what the other gentleman just said about these people need to understand
[03:29:01.680 --> 03:29:06.960]  that when you are coming up with a solution under law that violates our constitutional
[03:29:06.960 --> 03:29:09.920]  principle then it is not a solution.
[03:29:09.920 --> 03:29:17.120]  It is in fact an additional problem and we know this because that's the entire basis
[03:29:17.120 --> 03:29:23.040]  of the show that you guys do, having to fix the problems that others have created by assuming
[03:29:23.040 --> 03:29:25.880]  a power they never had.
[03:29:25.880 --> 03:29:27.680]  That's right.
[03:29:27.680 --> 03:29:30.960]  And that's the biggest problem we have and as far as the gentleman that wants to run
[03:29:30.960 --> 03:29:31.960]  for Attorney General.
[03:29:31.960 --> 03:29:32.960]  Yeah that's Barry Cooper.
[03:29:32.960 --> 03:29:39.720]  Yeah if he does the job the way he is talking about I would be more than happy to vote for
[03:29:39.720 --> 03:29:40.720]  him.
[03:29:40.720 --> 03:29:41.720]  Indeed.
[03:29:41.720 --> 03:29:47.080]  If he is willing to carry that a step further and go against any public official that violates
[03:29:47.080 --> 03:29:52.840]  their oath and the laws of this state and the rights of the people.
[03:29:52.840 --> 03:29:57.080]  And then I will get off after this Randy I just want to let you know that on the comptroller
[03:29:57.080 --> 03:30:02.080]  thing I have sent you a copy of an update on what I was trying to do for the injunction.
[03:30:02.080 --> 03:30:05.040]  If you get your chance would you please look that over and get it back to me so I can get
[03:30:05.040 --> 03:30:06.040]  it filed.
[03:30:06.040 --> 03:30:07.040]  Certainly will.
[03:30:07.040 --> 03:30:10.760]  All right I appreciate it and you all have a very good night and I really enjoyed listening
[03:30:10.760 --> 03:30:11.760]  tonight.
[03:30:11.760 --> 03:30:15.240]  All right absolutely thank you so much for calling in.
[03:30:15.240 --> 03:30:19.160]  Okay we're going to move on to our next caller.
[03:30:19.160 --> 03:30:21.360]  Do you have an update?
[03:30:21.360 --> 03:30:22.360]  Randy?
[03:30:22.360 --> 03:30:25.040]  Okay we've got Janet from Texas.
[03:30:25.040 --> 03:30:32.520]  Hi you guys I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate having had that program to listen
[03:30:32.520 --> 03:30:33.520]  to tonight.
[03:30:33.520 --> 03:30:34.520]  Well thank you.
[03:30:34.520 --> 03:30:42.280]  I live in Austin too and I'm very, very concerned and have been for a long time about what I
[03:30:42.280 --> 03:30:49.920]  see going on with government at all levels and I have long been since 1999 when I got
[03:30:49.920 --> 03:30:53.800]  involved in this been a proponent of local action.
[03:30:53.800 --> 03:30:59.000]  I believe that too much focus was put on the federal government and once we realized that
[03:30:59.000 --> 03:31:05.960]  the federal government was behind most of this with their money and then of course we
[03:31:05.960 --> 03:31:12.720]  have those who support it locally and then at the state and then government as well at
[03:31:12.720 --> 03:31:16.120]  all levels that you know that you know local is where we need to be.
[03:31:16.120 --> 03:31:21.160]  Now what I heard tonight I heard our people I heard our elected servants and our not so
[03:31:21.160 --> 03:31:29.000]  elected servants which is the employees of our employees telling us that in no uncertain
[03:31:29.000 --> 03:31:38.360]  terms that they do not understand what their jobs are that they are willing to sacrifice
[03:31:38.360 --> 03:31:45.640]  one or more of our rights in order to for their whatever agenda they have and whatever
[03:31:45.640 --> 03:31:54.160]  altruistic you know deed they want to make their livelihood or you know depart their
[03:31:54.160 --> 03:31:55.960]  lives.
[03:31:55.960 --> 03:32:02.960]  And to me I just I believe that the one sole purpose that we have government is to protect
[03:32:02.960 --> 03:32:05.320]  our rights not remove them.
[03:32:05.320 --> 03:32:06.320]  Absolutely.
[03:32:06.320 --> 03:32:08.920]  Good point Janet.
[03:32:08.920 --> 03:32:13.760]  And I think what we're doing is natural and it's healthy.
[03:32:13.760 --> 03:32:14.760]  Definitely.
[03:32:14.760 --> 03:32:22.960]  We want our police to want to do the best job they can and they're focused on one thing
[03:32:22.960 --> 03:32:26.640]  you and I are focused on something else.
[03:32:26.640 --> 03:32:29.840]  Well they should be focused on the same thing we are but they're training.
[03:32:29.840 --> 03:32:32.400]  Sometimes they need a little push like I like this.
[03:32:32.400 --> 03:32:33.400]  Exactly.
[03:32:33.400 --> 03:32:34.880]  So we balance one another.
[03:32:34.880 --> 03:32:40.680]  Yeah and our brand of activism is one where we are helping the our elected representatives
[03:32:40.680 --> 03:32:43.840]  we're helping the chief of police to realize that I mean they have their hands full with
[03:32:43.840 --> 03:32:47.840]  a variety of issues and the ones that deal with our civil liberties we can step up to
[03:32:47.840 --> 03:32:50.320]  the plate and we can assist them in making these decisions.
[03:32:50.320 --> 03:32:51.560]  Yeah no kidding.
[03:32:51.560 --> 03:32:54.280]  And if they don't make them then we can kick them right out of office.
[03:32:54.280 --> 03:32:56.040]  We can give them free shoes.
[03:32:56.040 --> 03:32:59.520]  I don't know that we can kick them out of office but it may take something more than
[03:32:59.520 --> 03:33:02.000]  that but you know it's a nice place to try.
[03:33:02.000 --> 03:33:08.120]  I believe that my parents and my parents generation they're both gone and dead now live nice long
[03:33:08.120 --> 03:33:09.120]  lives.
[03:33:09.120 --> 03:33:12.480]  I believe they were very permissive with our government and very trusting of our government
[03:33:12.480 --> 03:33:20.560]  and I believe that some beliefs that they had they were asleep.
[03:33:20.560 --> 03:33:27.080]  And I believe that in my generation and maybe some of their generation people started to
[03:33:27.080 --> 03:33:30.240]  become more aware of what was going on.
[03:33:30.240 --> 03:33:35.920]  For example with my background in lab teching for many many many years I know that it was
[03:33:35.920 --> 03:33:41.040]  insurance companies under the direction of government that started making people give
[03:33:41.040 --> 03:33:50.840]  blood samples in order to qualify quote unquote for insurance.
[03:33:50.840 --> 03:33:55.160]  And I believe that that's where all of this saw its root.
[03:33:55.160 --> 03:33:58.280]  I always knew they were coming after blood.
[03:33:58.280 --> 03:34:01.360]  If they can take blood from you they can take anything from you.
[03:34:01.360 --> 03:34:06.520]  It's all about operant conditioning what they can get us accustomed to.
[03:34:06.520 --> 03:34:07.520]  Yeah indeed.
[03:34:07.520 --> 03:34:12.880]  That's why they want to chip the animals get us used to that so they can come ship us too.
[03:34:12.880 --> 03:34:13.880]  Incrementalism.
[03:34:13.880 --> 03:34:19.040]  Well it's very much incrementalism as a matter of fact my husband pointed out to me earlier
[03:34:19.040 --> 03:34:28.480]  that this started out to be a holiday blood drive police blood drive.
[03:34:28.480 --> 03:34:32.800]  A blood drive I like that one.
[03:34:32.800 --> 03:34:41.080]  And then it moved to weekend no refusal weekend so before it was it was no refusal holidays
[03:34:41.080 --> 03:34:42.760]  and now it's no refusal weekend.
[03:34:42.760 --> 03:34:44.800]  What's it going to be next time?
[03:34:44.800 --> 03:34:45.800]  Is it just every time?
[03:34:45.800 --> 03:34:47.760]  It's going to be no refusal anytime.
[03:34:47.760 --> 03:34:50.400]  No refusal Sunday morning on the way to church.
[03:34:50.400 --> 03:34:52.200]  It's going to be no refusal anytime.
[03:34:52.200 --> 03:34:54.960]  That's what it is in Arizona and Utah.
[03:34:54.960 --> 03:35:00.240]  That's why the chief kept on tarping on Arizona Arizona does Arizona this is Austin Texas this
[03:35:00.240 --> 03:35:04.680]  is a hotbed for activism both from the left and the right and we will by no means stand
[03:35:04.680 --> 03:35:05.680]  for this.
[03:35:05.680 --> 03:35:06.680]  No kidding.
[03:35:06.680 --> 03:35:07.680]  Good.
[03:35:07.680 --> 03:35:08.680]  We will not stand for it.
[03:35:08.680 --> 03:35:09.680]  That's right.
[03:35:09.680 --> 03:35:10.680]  Go ahead.
[03:35:10.680 --> 03:35:14.960]  We will not stand for it and I hope that they hear me say it I hope they hear other people
[03:35:14.960 --> 03:35:15.960]  say it.
[03:35:15.960 --> 03:35:23.160]  I hope they understand that my agenda is to see that the city council can you imagine
[03:35:23.160 --> 03:35:29.440]  how nine people are they nine people on the diocese that sit above the people are ruling
[03:35:29.440 --> 03:35:34.800]  no matter how much land and territory is taken in by the city.
[03:35:34.800 --> 03:35:42.440]  Those people also come under the the auspices and permission giving sitting people the same
[03:35:42.440 --> 03:35:49.320]  work and they have careers now they've they've taken the service of government the service
[03:35:49.320 --> 03:35:55.560]  of the people and the servant hood that they have and turned it into a career.
[03:35:55.560 --> 03:35:57.600]  Now let's take that away from them.
[03:35:57.600 --> 03:36:03.200]  I am an advocate of having a city council members change every six months because I'd
[03:36:03.200 --> 03:36:08.240]  rather vote more often and see different faces in there so that they can't become friends.
[03:36:08.240 --> 03:36:10.800]  They can't hold hands with other forms of government.
[03:36:10.800 --> 03:36:15.680]  They can't go behind closed doors that they are people who have to take a constitutional
[03:36:15.680 --> 03:36:20.760]  force for a year before they can even serve and that in order to serve they have to they
[03:36:20.760 --> 03:36:26.640]  have to serve as a matter of being a citizen and that their names are drawn by by lottery
[03:36:26.640 --> 03:36:27.640]  not an election.
[03:36:27.640 --> 03:36:34.520]  That's a good point and maybe difficult to to pull that off but I think more importantly
[03:36:34.520 --> 03:36:37.840]  we just need to ensure that we all keep a very watchful eye on just about all of their
[03:36:37.840 --> 03:36:38.840]  actions.
[03:36:38.840 --> 03:36:44.200]  For example the city council agenda is available on their website probably about a week before
[03:36:44.200 --> 03:36:47.720]  it goes in there so if you just peruse there you know your chances are that there's going
[03:36:47.720 --> 03:36:51.320]  to be some sort of tyrannical measure that's going to be voted on the next Thursday.
[03:36:51.320 --> 03:36:55.280]  So we just need to show up and we need to actually make them fear we need to light the
[03:36:55.280 --> 03:36:59.640]  fire of fear in their eyes and show them that there is a large contingent of their electorate
[03:36:59.640 --> 03:37:01.080]  that is not going to stand for it.
[03:37:01.080 --> 03:37:05.080]  So I believe once we start showing up and show them that we do have the numbers they'll
[03:37:05.080 --> 03:37:09.240]  realize that we are a voting block to be dealt with and they will act accordingly because
[03:37:09.240 --> 03:37:13.080]  if they don't like I said before we will vote them out of office and I know that the voting
[03:37:13.080 --> 03:37:14.080]  machines of course are flawed.
[03:37:14.080 --> 03:37:18.400]  They're counted in public and I really have to disagree with you on that and that's a
[03:37:18.400 --> 03:37:24.960]  minor issue but you know I've already seen what happens to the vote and I know that they
[03:37:24.960 --> 03:37:26.520]  have control of those as well.
[03:37:26.520 --> 03:37:32.320]  So unless and until we go back to paper trails and the votes are counted in public and you
[03:37:32.320 --> 03:37:37.720]  know we can make sure that who the people who the people are who are voting are citizens
[03:37:37.720 --> 03:37:47.200]  and properly you know have proper citizenhood to vote then I don't know that we're going
[03:37:47.200 --> 03:37:48.200]  to vote them out.
[03:37:48.200 --> 03:37:52.440]  That's why I'd rather see the change.
[03:37:52.440 --> 03:37:56.560]  And Janet yeah I mean you're right of course I know all about the fraudulent elections
[03:37:56.560 --> 03:37:57.560]  as well.
[03:37:57.560 --> 03:38:03.440]  I think maybe what John was just trying to say is that we can scare them into thinking
[03:38:03.440 --> 03:38:07.880]  that they're not going to be voted in office next time because a lot of these legislators
[03:38:07.880 --> 03:38:11.120]  don't know how fraudulent the voting system is.
[03:38:11.120 --> 03:38:19.400]  I mean there are a few rogues at the top that may or may not even be a senator or a house
[03:38:19.400 --> 03:38:20.400]  rep.
[03:38:20.400 --> 03:38:24.560]  So the main thing is that if we can scare them into thinking they're going to lose their
[03:38:24.560 --> 03:38:28.720]  job even though the elections are totally rigged I still think there's a chance that
[03:38:28.720 --> 03:38:32.880]  we can pressure them into doing the right thing because it happened today at that committee
[03:38:32.880 --> 03:38:34.320]  hearing at the Capitol.
[03:38:34.320 --> 03:38:40.360]  But you're absolutely right I mean without hand counted paper ballots in public view
[03:38:40.360 --> 03:38:48.480]  counted at the precinct I might add not carted off under you know guarded by the sheriff
[03:38:48.480 --> 03:38:53.760]  or whoever else and brought to the convention center and then counted no no no no no count
[03:38:53.760 --> 03:38:56.240]  it at the precinct that's the only way.
[03:38:56.240 --> 03:39:02.000]  Exactly and let us not get caught up in the fallacy of the ballot box if a public official
[03:39:02.000 --> 03:39:08.880]  violates the law relating to his office don't give me this crapola about voting him out.
[03:39:08.880 --> 03:39:15.040]  I want him in jail I want him removed for war in tow yeah really and see Janet well obviously
[03:39:15.040 --> 03:39:19.360]  that's what that's what we're doing I mean it's like if the voting doesn't work well
[03:39:19.360 --> 03:39:24.240]  get him thrown get him thrown in jail that'll work when there's on the other recourses we
[03:39:24.240 --> 03:39:29.800]  can take we are the people that's right and this is the thing we need to start taking
[03:39:29.800 --> 03:39:36.080]  the other recourses these public officials want to play fast with our law because it's
[03:39:36.080 --> 03:39:39.680]  because it's a radio station and I know I have just one more thing to say and I really
[03:39:39.680 --> 03:39:45.480]  want everyone to hear me say that okay okay I want them to not have the power to vote
[03:39:45.480 --> 03:39:51.760]  themselves raises and then no kidding see I want to see their salaries cut by by three
[03:39:51.760 --> 03:39:59.760]  quarters so that's a good idea salary issues in the initiative and referendum.
[03:39:59.760 --> 03:40:04.880]  Go ahead Janet excuse me I'm sorry go ahead say what you were saying just a second ago
[03:40:04.880 --> 03:40:08.320]  Randy interrupted and we couldn't hear what you were saying oh well but I just wanted
[03:40:08.320 --> 03:40:13.040]  to make sure that they have all you know no emphasis to have make a career out of being
[03:40:13.040 --> 03:40:22.400]  a politician yeah no kidding James Madison in the founders I forget what the documents
[03:40:22.400 --> 03:40:29.680]  were the federalist papers federalist papers he suggested that that elected officials should
[03:40:29.680 --> 03:40:36.240]  only be in office a year and then return to the public sector yeah really well so Janet
[03:40:36.240 --> 03:40:40.160]  thank you so much for calling in I believe I know what's Janet is this is this a Janet
[03:40:40.160 --> 03:40:45.720]  that is my neighbor yes it is all right this is Janet my neighbor she lives a few blocks
[03:40:45.720 --> 03:40:54.000]  away from me where as you can see my neighborhood is very very active John in fact we beat city
[03:40:54.000 --> 03:41:02.000]  council when this was way back in like oh 2000 I believe they tried to use our our city
[03:41:02.000 --> 03:41:06.960]  our neighborhood is a litmus test to try to rezone the whole place and cut up our neighborhood
[03:41:06.960 --> 03:41:12.360]  like with to allow 2500 square foot lot sizes and stuff like that and with our good friend
[03:41:12.360 --> 03:41:17.760]  Kelly Smoot Janet Janet knows who knows who she is we got a valid petition in our neighborhood
[03:41:17.760 --> 03:41:24.400]  and forced a super majority vote saying we do not want this and we want all right yeah
[03:41:24.400 --> 03:41:29.160]  absolutely so thank you so much Janet for all your activism thank you all right we're
[03:41:29.160 --> 03:41:35.240]  good we're going to move on now bye-bye okay we're going to go to Bill in Wisconsin Randy
[03:41:35.240 --> 03:41:41.080]  would you punch him in please I'm running so many things on my laptop here all right
[03:41:41.080 --> 03:41:47.120]  Bill thanks for calling in what's on your mind tonight hi just bill here about am I
[03:41:47.120 --> 03:41:53.280]  on there yes you're on go ahead oh okay I want to comment about that Missouri report
[03:41:53.280 --> 03:41:58.360]  and glad to hear John was saying about defusing Texas and best permission I'd also like to
[03:41:58.360 --> 03:42:05.080]  use that it was a good idea but like well some activism and what people can do that
[03:42:05.080 --> 03:42:12.400]  report alone that got rescinded both the governor turned around and said we got rid of it and
[03:42:12.400 --> 03:42:21.680]  the the commander of the police force and okay you know a complete I believe a nationwide
[03:42:21.680 --> 03:42:26.040]  group of activists that had continued to hammer Missouri till I actually got that thing turned
[03:42:26.040 --> 03:42:32.640]  down so we can't all make a difference in that regard absolutely and how are you listening
[03:42:32.640 --> 03:42:39.920]  to us tonight tonight Bill oh as I do every night that's on the computer all right thank
[03:42:39.920 --> 03:42:44.920]  you very much we have a we we have an affiliate in Madison Wisconsin that's why I was asking
[03:42:44.920 --> 03:42:49.560]  if you were listening on the radio Madison would be a little too far away for me to pick
[03:42:49.560 --> 03:42:56.760]  up okay yes and once again I do want to welcome our newest affiliate Liberty 1710 in Minneapolis
[03:42:56.760 --> 03:43:03.480]  Minnesota thank you for joining us tonight as well yeah one of the things too I've done
[03:43:03.480 --> 03:43:07.480]  a little more research on this fusion I'm sure John probably has a more depth than I
[03:43:07.480 --> 03:43:14.920]  do but just a couple of things we seem to think it's kind of hard how can the government
[03:43:14.920 --> 03:43:20.800]  or an individual or your your county sheriff get a hold of this kind of information well
[03:43:20.800 --> 03:43:25.680]  there is a report out at the Washington Post and there are several private data brokers
[03:43:25.680 --> 03:43:30.760]  shall we call them they mentioned one called intersect they claim they can do they have
[03:43:30.760 --> 03:43:40.160]  12 billion records on 98 percent of the Americans that's just one of these outfits and there's
[03:43:40.160 --> 03:43:44.680]  another add-on you say well fine they have all these records what about accessing them
[03:43:44.680 --> 03:43:51.040]  IBM has been putting out an ad on a TV something they called a petaflop and the way that they're
[03:43:51.040 --> 03:43:57.320]  describing it it's a hundred and fifty thousand computations per second for every human on
[03:43:57.320 --> 03:44:06.440]  the planet wow incredible so it's out there and they they have it there that's why they
[03:44:06.440 --> 03:44:12.440]  it's like a feed me they just want more more information what else can we get well let's
[03:44:12.440 --> 03:44:16.680]  get everybody's blood don't throw that in there too and this I think this is going to
[03:44:16.680 --> 03:44:20.480]  be one of the most important battles that we face as the freedom movement it's definitely
[03:44:20.480 --> 03:44:25.680]  going to be one of my focuses as a local activist here in Austin but this is a battle that's
[03:44:25.680 --> 03:44:29.920]  winnable and it's of the utmost importance and the main reason being if they are able
[03:44:29.920 --> 03:44:34.640]  to carry this fusion center concept to its fullest potential I like to say it's going
[03:44:34.640 --> 03:44:39.060]  to make big brother look like little sister and basically they're going to have total
[03:44:39.060 --> 03:44:43.520]  information awareness which was the program again under DARPA that they initiated the
[03:44:43.520 --> 03:44:47.640]  development of this technology and of this software so ladies and gentlemen anybody listening
[03:44:47.640 --> 03:44:51.800]  in any city in any town I encourage you to show up at the door of your fusion center
[03:44:51.800 --> 03:44:55.880]  just google fusion center and put in your state and you show up at the door that's what
[03:44:55.880 --> 03:44:59.040]  we did me and Nancy Robbins actually showed up at the door of our fusion center and asked
[03:44:59.040 --> 03:45:03.280]  if we could take a tour of course they said no and I told them well you know all the intelligence
[03:45:03.280 --> 03:45:07.040]  and data that y'all gather on us it sure is pretty hard to get any answers about the fusion
[03:45:07.040 --> 03:45:11.480]  center but I can tell you this we will definitely get the answers file FOIA request whatever
[03:45:11.480 --> 03:45:16.160]  it takes to ensure that this fusion center apparatus is not abused because it already
[03:45:16.160 --> 03:45:21.600]  has been in several states well I want to kill it all together there you go all right
[03:45:21.600 --> 03:45:25.240]  listen we really need to move on because we've only got one second left we've been skipping
[03:45:25.240 --> 03:45:28.660]  all the breaks here and we've got a number of callers on the line thank you for calling
[03:45:28.660 --> 03:45:38.560]  Bill okay okay we're going to go now to Matt in Texas Randy we punch men yes okay we've
[03:45:38.560 --> 03:45:45.880]  got Matt here in Texas thanks so much for everything you guys do tonight was was fabulous
[03:45:45.880 --> 03:45:54.240]  oh thank you one of the things I was wondering about was the ability of the police chief
[03:45:54.240 --> 03:46:03.160]  to take funding from the feds without statutorily being delegated that ability that's what we
[03:46:03.160 --> 03:46:08.840]  were talking about all along and I even asked him directly if he thought he could do that
[03:46:08.840 --> 03:46:14.280]  and he said that he would have to city council would have to approve it okay so that's state
[03:46:14.280 --> 03:46:18.800]  law this it has to get the federal funds must go through the local jurisdiction of the home
[03:46:18.800 --> 03:46:26.000]  rule states home rule cities so as the so has he received any funding for this yet no
[03:46:26.000 --> 03:46:29.200]  he's apparently not he hasn't even applied for the grant and that was something that
[03:46:29.200 --> 03:46:33.080]  took me a lot of work to get that one answer have you applied for the grant and apparently
[03:46:33.080 --> 03:46:37.560]  they have not that this will go through the city council and unfortunately there's a lot
[03:46:37.560 --> 03:46:42.360]  of other stuff that we haven't been able to hop on like we have in this battle but the
[03:46:42.360 --> 03:46:46.040]  city council and I'm sure it's the same in any city across the country they usually just
[03:46:46.040 --> 03:46:50.560]  green light this because the most cities they their main focus is on zoning like Debbie
[03:46:50.560 --> 03:46:56.480]  was saying earlier and unfortunately they do not have the concern that we do for the
[03:46:56.480 --> 03:47:00.640]  constitution and for civil liberties and for the growing ever growing police state that's
[03:47:00.640 --> 03:47:04.920]  why it's our job as Americans it's our duty as Americans to ensure that these individuals
[03:47:04.920 --> 03:47:08.480]  do not step out of line and they don't simply have a blank check and green light every single
[03:47:08.480 --> 03:47:12.320]  federal program that comes down the comes down the line so that's what we're hoping
[03:47:12.320 --> 03:47:15.280]  to do here in the city of Austin we've got to hold their feet to the fire and pay very
[03:47:15.280 --> 03:47:18.920]  close attention because just about every day they're taking federal money and just about
[03:47:18.920 --> 03:47:22.640]  every single instance this federal money is being used to desecrate our civil liberties
[03:47:22.640 --> 03:47:27.200]  well hopefully they got the message loud and clear because this isn't even up for vote
[03:47:27.200 --> 03:47:31.600]  from the city in front of the city council yet but we had one city council member here
[03:47:31.600 --> 03:47:37.880]  tonight and so I'm you know this is just a preliminary public forum if it really comes
[03:47:37.880 --> 03:47:42.640]  up to vote that they're going to get a lot more resistance from us well we're hoping
[03:47:42.640 --> 03:47:46.560]  that to forget about the vote to hell with the vote they're going to push for 10 years
[03:47:46.560 --> 03:47:50.880]  down the road so we're hoping to have a resolution passed that prohibits that practice that's
[03:47:50.880 --> 03:47:55.240]  even better that's even better John because the next council you know say two three years
[03:47:55.240 --> 03:47:59.240]  down the road every single city around Austin will be doing this program they're going to
[03:47:59.240 --> 03:48:04.200]  do it anyway so we need to specifically prohibit that very practice in the city of Austin absolutely
[03:48:04.200 --> 03:48:08.880]  did that answer your question Matt it did thanks okay excellent let's move on we've
[03:48:08.880 --> 03:48:16.600]  got three more callers we've got Randy from Texas Randy go ahead hey guys I've been thinking
[03:48:16.600 --> 03:48:20.880]  about this a while and I think there's two things that need to happen if we want to secure
[03:48:20.880 --> 03:48:27.080]  our freedoms at the local level we need to take back the sole authority from the state
[03:48:27.080 --> 03:48:33.120]  and the local county governments for prosecutorial actions in other words we should be able to
[03:48:33.120 --> 03:48:37.000]  have a private prosecutor the way it used to be absolutely that's what I've been saying
[03:48:37.000 --> 03:48:41.600]  all along too and number two if you want to win at the federal level you have to end the
[03:48:41.600 --> 03:48:46.400]  Federal Reserve because that's where they're getting the power to drive that's a big one
[03:48:46.400 --> 03:48:52.760]  you go Randy absolutely all right anything else we've got three more callers on the line
[03:48:52.760 --> 03:48:58.400]  all right thank you Randy we're going to go now to Mitchell in Texas we just saw Mitchell
[03:48:58.400 --> 03:49:07.200]  earlier this evening Mitchell you there yeah great show as usual my question is and I'm
[03:49:07.200 --> 03:49:11.720]  sorry I tuned in late so you may have covered this already but I heard John mentioned briefly
[03:49:11.720 --> 03:49:19.240]  before about the license plate readers and had you talked about that being passed in
[03:49:19.240 --> 03:49:25.440]  Austin here yes the City Council again just went ahead and green lighted that program
[03:49:25.440 --> 03:49:29.560]  greenlit that program and yeah they accepted the federal funds I think to the tune of four
[03:49:29.560 --> 03:49:33.000]  hundred thousand dollars four hundred thirty thousand dollars to set up a license plate
[03:49:33.000 --> 03:49:36.360]  scanning camera now here's the thing a lot of this is just going to get ran through and
[03:49:36.360 --> 03:49:39.360]  it's going to be very difficult unless we ourselves are the legislators on the local
[03:49:39.360 --> 03:49:43.280]  level but what we can do in order to ensure because I don't think we would have been able
[03:49:43.280 --> 03:49:47.520]  to prevent the City of Austin from actually appropriating those funds and implementing
[03:49:47.520 --> 03:49:52.400]  their license plate scanning cameras but what you can do is get all up in their business
[03:49:52.400 --> 03:49:56.320]  and ensure that they do not keep the data because in other states and other cities every
[03:49:56.320 --> 03:50:00.400]  single car that drives past they have the ability to collect the four license plates
[03:50:00.400 --> 03:50:04.320]  per second every car that drives past they take all that information and store it in
[03:50:04.320 --> 03:50:08.400]  a massive database so say ten years down the road they can go back and see where I John
[03:50:08.400 --> 03:50:15.280]  Bush was on this this Monday March 30th so what you can do is say unless this individual
[03:50:15.280 --> 03:50:21.000]  is a suspect of a crime you must erase that data that very next day or don't even begin
[03:50:21.000 --> 03:50:24.400]  to collect it in the first place so a lot of the times it is difficult I don't think
[03:50:24.400 --> 03:50:27.640]  that we're going to be able to defund the fusion center or eliminate the fusion center
[03:50:27.640 --> 03:50:31.480]  but I do believe that we'll be able to get in the decision making process and the policy
[03:50:31.480 --> 03:50:36.240]  guiding and the policy development process to ensure that it doesn't get abused and that
[03:50:36.240 --> 03:50:39.360]  it doesn't get turned against we the people.
[03:50:39.360 --> 03:50:44.120]  And John could you slowly say the name of the Supreme Court case you referred to where
[03:50:44.120 --> 03:50:50.120]  they directly said that involuntary blood withdrawal was unconstitutional?
[03:50:50.120 --> 03:50:56.080]  No unfortunately they said it was constitutional the Supreme Court case U.S. Supreme Court
[03:50:56.080 --> 03:51:07.000]  case 1966 at Schmerber v. California S-C-H-M-E-B-R-E-M-E-R-B-E-R-B-E-R sorry that was tough Schmerber
[03:51:07.000 --> 03:51:12.000]  v. California the other one dealing with this issue is Rochin v. California and that's the
[03:51:12.000 --> 03:51:15.840]  only one of the only few cases that actually sided with the people it was the instance
[03:51:15.840 --> 03:51:20.200]  where an individual swallowed methamphetamines the police took him to the hospital and forced
[03:51:20.200 --> 03:51:23.720]  the nurse to stick a tube down his throat in order to get his drugs out to be used as
[03:51:23.720 --> 03:51:27.440]  evidence when he went all the way to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court ended up throwing
[03:51:27.440 --> 03:51:32.360]  the evidence out overturning the ruling saying that if the practice shocks the conscience
[03:51:32.360 --> 03:51:38.920]  so that's what they gave us if it shocks the conscience then it cannot be used in court
[03:51:38.920 --> 03:51:43.280]  so I would argue that if the police officers are holding me down or strapped me down taking
[03:51:43.280 --> 03:51:47.120]  my blood you can bet your bottom dollar that is shocking my conscience and I'm sure all
[03:51:47.120 --> 03:51:52.800]  the listeners consciences as well absolutely that's Rochin v. California well see in the
[03:51:52.800 --> 03:51:58.320]  in a set Acevedo tonight was saying well we're not going to force anybody into it but to
[03:51:58.320 --> 03:52:05.200]  me no no refusal sounds to me like forcing they say it's not forcing it it's non-consensual
[03:52:05.200 --> 03:52:10.360]  which is like a mandatory volunteerism I know exactly exactly I mean what are they going
[03:52:10.360 --> 03:52:16.280]  to do if you say no I think that's how I got in Vietnam you go we got the crop though I
[03:52:16.280 --> 03:52:19.760]  we got the quote from the the word from the chief himself I asked him so you're not going
[03:52:19.760 --> 03:52:23.840]  to do it forcibly he said no we're not going to do it for you yeah and it went out on the
[03:52:23.840 --> 03:52:28.960]  air too all over the whole all over many FM and AM radio stations and its archives as
[03:52:28.960 --> 03:52:33.960]  well refuse give us the opportunity to overturn that beam in v. Texas which unfortunately
[03:52:33.960 --> 03:52:38.680]  left out the ninth amendment which often gets overlooked everybody refused all tests in
[03:52:38.680 --> 03:52:46.400]  every instance a lot of it absolutely in order to get a good opinion you have to ask the
[03:52:46.400 --> 03:52:51.960]  right question right and so we may have to bring the right question before the court
[03:52:51.960 --> 03:52:57.040]  do you feel that ninth amendment remedy makes sense yes I do okay what I haven't seen is
[03:52:57.040 --> 03:53:04.480]  the case law surrounding the ninth amendment not much there's not much I may have to take
[03:53:04.480 --> 03:53:09.560]  a look at that all right Mitchell did you get your question answered yes thanks guys
[03:53:09.560 --> 03:53:14.640]  all right thank you Mitchell thanks for for supporting us and thanks for being here tonight
[03:53:14.640 --> 03:53:21.040]  we're going to go now to CJ in Minnesota CJ is actually our affiliate CJ thanks for calling
[03:53:21.040 --> 03:53:27.440]  in and thank you for broadcasting us up there in Minnesota what's on your mind tonight so
[03:53:27.440 --> 03:53:35.880]  we just went down to the to the City Council how did that go yes well we we're here right
[03:53:35.880 --> 03:53:40.860]  now we've been broadcasting since 6 p.m. we we we coordinated with the building manager
[03:53:40.860 --> 03:53:48.360]  and the sound man and they piped us in sound directly from the sound man's main board and
[03:53:48.360 --> 03:53:56.520]  the entire hearing went out on the air oh no it's from six to eight and I think I think
[03:53:56.520 --> 03:54:00.800]  chess up there maybe run something else from six to eight so that's maybe why it didn't
[03:54:00.800 --> 03:54:06.920]  go out up there but that it's archived I'm going to be I'll be uploading the archive
[03:54:06.920 --> 03:54:12.640]  later this evening so what was the ruling on it well there's no ruling this was just
[03:54:12.640 --> 03:54:18.440]  a forum for public input except they wouldn't let anybody make any comments you could only
[03:54:18.440 --> 03:54:30.040]  ask a question anyway yeah we had to go down the day before and actually get on the agenda
[03:54:30.040 --> 03:54:37.200]  to make comments right well this wasn't actually City Council meeting this was a public forum
[03:54:37.200 --> 03:54:43.160]  to take input or so they said organized by John Bush here from Texans for Accountable
[03:54:43.160 --> 03:54:47.000]  Government thanks to John yeah we had to take the matters into our own hand because unfortunately
[03:54:47.000 --> 03:54:51.040]  like I said before in the city of Austin the democratic process isn't completely skewed
[03:54:51.040 --> 03:54:55.160]  and flawed so it's up to we the people to put it right on back on the right track and
[03:54:55.160 --> 03:54:59.680]  I think we did just that yeah and Acevedo kept saying how he was going to have a hearing
[03:54:59.680 --> 03:55:05.520]  for public input but he never would do it so John over here and and his his organization
[03:55:05.520 --> 03:55:13.160]  had to had to make this happen I called him on it I just called the state when they had
[03:55:13.160 --> 03:55:18.960]  the ruling here that we went down and we were on the agenda and we voiced our opinion about
[03:55:18.960 --> 03:55:23.560]  the enhanced driver's license and I called them back because it it looked like when you
[03:55:23.560 --> 03:55:28.080]  went on their state site that it actually had gotten passed so I called them up and
[03:55:28.080 --> 03:55:33.680]  I was like excuse me you said this got passed and now it's in finance and they they cleared
[03:55:33.680 --> 03:55:40.680]  that up for me saying that finance actually set sent the bill to the transportation department
[03:55:40.680 --> 03:55:45.160]  and that's where we were we were in front of the transportation committee and it's funny
[03:55:45.160 --> 03:55:53.960]  that you say that Mr. Bush because all the democrats voted in favor of the enhanced driver's
[03:55:53.960 --> 03:56:00.080]  license and all the republicans stood up and said nay to it which was you know which was
[03:56:00.080 --> 03:56:05.920]  nice but so they kicked it back to finance now finance now we have the full committee
[03:56:05.920 --> 03:56:12.560]  that on the finance so we are just slamming them and every I called every talk show radio
[03:56:12.560 --> 03:56:21.480]  and tomorrow about 15 different talk show radios are hosting this on about the FMNAM
[03:56:21.480 --> 03:56:27.440]  here in the Minneapolis St. Paul area about the enhanced driver's license and we're actually
[03:56:27.440 --> 03:56:34.440]  calling the governor tomorrow and we have a thing that we're going to interview him
[03:56:34.440 --> 03:56:41.560]  and record that all and air it live on our station here good for you and we got direct
[03:56:41.560 --> 03:56:47.160]  questions and I was just wondering if maybe you could give me some input on what kind
[03:56:47.160 --> 03:56:54.720]  of questions I want to ask him to make sure that this law this doesn't get passed because
[03:56:54.720 --> 03:57:01.520]  last year the real ID came in effect and Minnesota shot it down and now well CJ check it out
[03:57:01.520 --> 03:57:05.600]  let me give you some because we're about to end the show I can give you some tips of what
[03:57:05.600 --> 03:57:09.760]  we did with Sheila Dean or what Sheila Dean actually did what she organized and she said
[03:57:09.760 --> 03:57:14.280]  one of the best methods is written testimony because there's a lot of people who couldn't
[03:57:14.280 --> 03:57:17.760]  go to the committee hearing today I was one of them because I had to work and I had to
[03:57:17.760 --> 03:57:22.880]  get here to set up the broadcast so I couldn't go and so get people to submit written testimonies
[03:57:22.880 --> 03:57:27.720]  and have them put on their written testimony that they authorize you or whoever else to
[03:57:27.720 --> 03:57:31.920]  submit their testimony for them because then it goes in the public record and it carries
[03:57:31.920 --> 03:57:38.120]  a lot more weight than people just getting up on the mic during these hearings and ranting
[03:57:38.120 --> 03:57:43.520]  so that's apparently very effective and we won today apparently in our legislature and
[03:57:43.520 --> 03:57:47.360]  looks like this implementation of the real ID is going to get shelved in committee for
[03:57:47.360 --> 03:57:48.360]  a while.
[03:57:48.360 --> 03:57:53.880]  That's awesome well we did the same thing and now the finance department has got to
[03:57:53.880 --> 03:57:58.200]  kick it back and now they're going to have a no-hold-nother meeting on it and I contacted
[03:57:58.200 --> 03:58:02.920]  them and we've got everybody on their list so they're getting mad email I mean completely
[03:58:02.920 --> 03:58:09.240]  just flooded the lady called me back and she says you weren't playing around were you?
[03:58:09.240 --> 03:58:10.960]  Absolutely not.
[03:58:10.960 --> 03:58:18.120]  No she said I've already gotten over 10,000 emails from this morning's conversation that
[03:58:18.120 --> 03:58:22.840]  we had because I had kicked it out to everybody that I know and I gave them all their email
[03:58:22.840 --> 03:58:28.320]  addresses but now you say that I should go to these people and inform a meeting and have
[03:58:28.320 --> 03:58:31.120]  them sign a petition.
[03:58:31.120 --> 03:58:36.320]  Right and they yeah okay listen I know it's just always the run around listen CJ we got
[03:58:36.320 --> 03:58:39.840]  to let you go because we're at the end of the show thank you for calling in.
[03:58:39.840 --> 03:58:44.720]  Yeah just tell me when you shout us out that I don't want people to think that we're airing
[03:58:44.720 --> 03:58:47.840]  in Minneapolis we're actually airing in Maple Grove.
[03:58:47.840 --> 03:58:52.800]  Maple Grove okay in Maple Grove all right thank you we'll be we'll be back on Thursday
[03:58:52.800 --> 03:58:57.880]  night we're going off the air thank you guys and we will be back Thursday night rule of
[03:58:57.880 --> 03:59:24.720]  law.
[03:59:24.720 --> 03:59:36.720]  I'm dangerous, I'm dangerous I'm like a tough enraiser
[03:59:36.720 --> 03:59:44.720]  Watch my side, I'm dangerous, dangerous If you eat, I'll be born
[03:59:44.720 --> 03:59:55.720]  So you better treat me good If you drink less soup You better treat me good