[00:00.000 --> 00:06.000]  The following newsflash is brought to you by the Lone Star Lowdown, providing your jelly
[00:06.000 --> 00:08.000]  bulletins for the commodities market.
[00:08.000 --> 00:21.000]  Today in history, news updates and the inside scoop into the tides of the alternative.
[00:21.000 --> 00:27.000]  Markets for the 6th of October, 2015, opened up with gold at $1,147.08 an ounce.
[00:27.000 --> 00:32.000]  Silver, $15.88 an ounce. Texas crude, $46.26 a barrel.
[00:32.000 --> 00:43.000]  And Bitcoin is currently sitting at about 246 U.S. currency.
[00:43.000 --> 00:49.000]  Today in history, Sunday, October 6, 1889, Thomas Edison screens his very first motion picture,
[00:49.000 --> 00:53.000]  kickstarting a new art form and industry centered around motion pictures.
[00:53.000 --> 01:02.000]  In recent news, medical aid group Medicines Sans Frontieres, or Medicines Without Frontiers,
[01:02.000 --> 01:06.000]  or Borders, is calling for an independent international inquiry into a suspected U.S.
[01:06.000 --> 01:12.000]  airstrike that killed 22 people in an Afghan hospital, calling the attack a war crime.
[01:12.000 --> 01:15.000]  U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter stated the following, quote,
[01:15.000 --> 01:23.000]  We do know that American air assets were engaged in the Kunduz vicinity, and we do know that the structures that you see in the news were destroyed.
[01:23.000 --> 01:26.000]  I just can't tell you what the connection is at the time.
[01:26.000 --> 01:32.000]  MSF General Director Christopher Strokes said that under the clear presumption that a war crime has been committed,
[01:32.000 --> 01:39.000]  MSF demands that a full and transparent investigation into the event be conducted by an independent international body.
[01:39.000 --> 01:44.000]  President Obama offered condolences on Saturday to victims of what he called the tragic incident.
[01:44.000 --> 01:57.000]  U.S.-led coalition forces in Afghanistan said it expected to complete its preliminary multinational investigation within days.
[01:57.000 --> 02:03.000]  The Justice Department is preparing to release roughly 6,000 inmates from federal prison as part of an effort to ease overcrowding
[02:03.000 --> 02:10.000]  and cut back on the harsh penalties given to nonviolent, victimless drug dealers since the 80s and 90s, according to federal law enforcement officials.
[02:10.000 --> 02:14.000]  The release is scheduled to occur from October 30 to November 2.
[02:14.000 --> 02:19.000]  It will be one of the largest one-time discharges of inmates from federal prisons in American history.
[02:19.000 --> 02:24.000]  The Bureau of Prisons is arranging for many of the inmates to initially move into halfway houses.
[02:24.000 --> 02:30.000]  The United States has a quarter of the world's prison population and spends $63 billion plus on imprisoning people.
[02:30.000 --> 02:44.000]  We are long overdue for lowering those numbers and freeing political prisoners.
[02:44.000 --> 03:00.000]  The Lowstart Lowdown is currently looking for sponsors. If you have a project or a service you'd like to advertise with us, feel free to give us a call at 210-363-2257. This has been your Lowdown for October 6, 2015.
[03:14.000 --> 03:24.000]  Thank you for watching.
[03:44.000 --> 03:49.000]  Why are you acting like a bloody fool? If you get caught in your master coup.
[03:49.000 --> 04:00.000]  Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do? What you gonna do when they come for you? Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do? What you gonna do when they come for you?
[04:00.000 --> 04:06.000]  You chuck it on that one, you chuck it on this one, you chuck it on your mother and you chuck it on your father.
[04:06.000 --> 04:26.000]  Okay, howdy, howdy. Randy Kelton, View of Law Radio, Deborah Stevens. And on this 15th day of October 2015, I was gonna start out talking about pre-litigation discovery.
[04:26.000 --> 04:40.000]  However, we've got two calls coming in, so we'll go right to the call board and I'll go to pre-litigation discovery if we run out of calls. Okay, we're gonna go to Doug in Indiana. Hello, Doug.
[04:40.000 --> 04:42.000]  Hello.
[04:42.000 --> 04:45.000]  What do you have for us today?
[04:45.000 --> 04:49.000]  FDCPA.
[04:49.000 --> 05:00.000]  Fair Debt Collections Practices Act 15 U.S. Code 1682 G, perhaps?
[05:00.000 --> 05:04.000]  Yeah, I've been assorted others.
[05:04.000 --> 05:06.000]  Okay, tell us about it.
[05:06.000 --> 05:29.000]  Well, I talked to you here a week or so ago, a couple weeks, about an attorney that had gotten a judgment against me for a sewer lien that was actually for my landlord.
[05:29.000 --> 05:32.000]  Oh, you should have a lot of fun with that.
[05:32.000 --> 05:40.000]  Yeah. Well, I called the... I finally figured out where it was and what attorney had it.
[05:40.000 --> 05:55.000]  I called the attorney and the attorney told me that the landlord had paid it, and so I asked him to file when he was going to file the release of lien.
[05:55.000 --> 06:04.000]  Well, they told me, well, the attorney's not here. He's on vacation for a week. So, you know, I waited.
[06:04.000 --> 06:13.000]  I called him back the next Monday, and they said, well, our paralegal will have to talk to you because she's the one that will pipe it up.
[06:13.000 --> 06:19.000]  I said, well, I think I'm just going to do that myself. I'm tired of messing with you guys.
[06:19.000 --> 06:23.000]  And I said, well, I'll talk to the paralegal though.
[06:23.000 --> 06:29.000]  She said, well, she's on vacation right now. She's going to be gone for a week.
[06:29.000 --> 06:40.000]  So that week goes by, and starting yesterday, guess who starts calling me the paralegal?
[06:40.000 --> 06:48.000]  But she's not calling me in the capacity of a paralegal. She's calling me in the capacity as a collector.
[06:48.000 --> 06:59.000]  This judgment was for like $420 or something like that, and now it's skyrocketed to like $917.
[06:59.000 --> 07:01.000]  Funny how it does that.
[07:01.000 --> 07:03.000]  Yeah.
[07:03.000 --> 07:08.000]  Did you send them a debt validation letter?
[07:08.000 --> 07:17.000]  No, because I didn't know nothing about this until I ran my credit report because I was going to buy me some extra more property for my house.
[07:17.000 --> 07:20.000]  I was going to buy the adjoining acreage.
[07:20.000 --> 07:25.000]  Oh, and you couldn't buy it because this mark was on your credit?
[07:25.000 --> 07:26.000]  Yes.
[07:26.000 --> 07:30.000]  Did you look up benefit of the bargain?
[07:30.000 --> 07:43.000]  Yes. The problem we have with that in Indiana is they say it has to be of a contractual relationship.
[07:43.000 --> 07:49.000]  Oh, then you can just claim a tort. You claim the same amount under a tort.
[07:49.000 --> 08:01.000]  Since you weren't in a contract with this lawyer and he did something that harmed you, then you just claim a tort against him.
[08:01.000 --> 08:17.000]  Yeah. Well, talking to that debt collector again this afternoon around, well actually about an hour and a half ago, I kept on her and kept on her and kept on her, and she finally admitted that it was a default judgment.
[08:17.000 --> 08:21.000]  So right away it hit me. I know exactly what they did.
[08:21.000 --> 08:29.000]  They served me with sewer service at the old address because the house has been vacant for quite some time.
[08:29.000 --> 08:37.000]  And she verified that that's where they sent it to, but she said they also sent it in the mail and they would have automatically forwarded it to your new address.
[08:37.000 --> 08:41.000]  So, you know, the courts got good service on you.
[08:41.000 --> 08:49.000]  I'm like, yeah, okay, fine, whatever. That's your legal opinion. It's not mine.
[08:49.000 --> 09:02.000]  So first thing I need to do is deal with the default judgment. I'm thinking about just filing a motion as a void order because of your lack of service.
[09:02.000 --> 09:10.000]  You filed a motion to reconsider based on lack of proper notice.
[09:10.000 --> 09:16.000]  And most all default judgments get overturned.
[09:16.000 --> 09:27.000]  Yeah. And if they did the, how did the lawyer get your address?
[09:27.000 --> 09:31.000]  They got my phone number when I called them.
[09:31.000 --> 09:37.000]  But how did they get their address when they sent the sewer notice?
[09:37.000 --> 09:42.000]  They didn't. They sent it to the address that I used to live at.
[09:42.000 --> 09:47.000]  So did you have a forwarding address?
[09:47.000 --> 09:53.000]  Not at that time. No, I had, I moved out of the county to county.
[09:53.000 --> 10:03.000]  So you didn't live at the property at the time, did you live there at the time the sewage debt accrued?
[10:03.000 --> 10:07.000]  Yes.
[10:07.000 --> 10:15.000]  Is there any obligation that you have as a renter to pay the water and sewage?
[10:15.000 --> 10:32.000]  I have researched this and our Indiana, our Supreme Court here in several cases has determined that it's the ultimate responsibility of the owner of the property.
[10:32.000 --> 10:39.000]  Even though they bill the tenant, they do it out of just mere convenience.
[10:39.000 --> 10:46.000]  Okay. So you have no debt obligation to this lawyer?
[10:46.000 --> 10:47.000]  No.
[10:47.000 --> 10:53.000]  And they knew that when they filed this action against you?
[10:53.000 --> 10:57.000]  Yes.
[10:57.000 --> 11:00.000]  This should, you should have a lot of fun with this one.
[11:00.000 --> 11:04.000]  It's getting good, isn't it? I've got them on, there's so many people.
[11:04.000 --> 11:08.000]  Have you bar grieved the lawyer yet?
[11:08.000 --> 11:10.000]  Not yet, but I'm going to.
[11:10.000 --> 11:18.000]  That's one of the early things you do and that will get his attention.
[11:18.000 --> 11:26.000]  Have you checked to see if there has been a credit pull by this attorney?
[11:26.000 --> 11:33.000]  I just got a copy of my credit report here a couple of days ago from the people that I tried to get the mortgage from.
[11:33.000 --> 11:38.000]  And I haven't completely reviewed it yet, but I'm going to look.
[11:38.000 --> 11:41.000]  You might want to go through that real careful.
[11:41.000 --> 11:48.000]  If they've done a credit pull for debt collection, that's not a permissible purpose.
[11:48.000 --> 11:59.000]  And I'm not the credit guy. Maybe Jeff will pop in on this. I know he will if I say something incorrect.
[11:59.000 --> 12:04.000]  But at last I heard it was a felony for them to do that.
[12:04.000 --> 12:13.000]  I know I had a friend sued him here. They went after her for her husband's business credit card account.
[12:13.000 --> 12:20.000]  They pulled her credit, which was not permissible, and she went after them for pulling the credit.
[12:20.000 --> 12:30.000]  And they wound up dismissing, retiring the debt and paying her to drop her suit against them.
[12:30.000 --> 12:39.000]  Well, the FDCPA, I mean, yeah, okay, but it's only like $1,000.
[12:39.000 --> 12:45.000]  I want to, you know, probably a little bit bigger fish here than just $1,000.
[12:45.000 --> 12:59.000]  Unfortunately, our circuit, if they have it on the complaint, you only get $1,000 per complaint.
[12:59.000 --> 13:04.000]  Well, you might look at the credit pull. That'll give you another shot.
[13:04.000 --> 13:09.000]  And I think it's went up to $1,500. There was a change a couple of years ago.
[13:09.000 --> 13:13.000]  I think that the amount went from $1,000 to $1,500.
[13:13.000 --> 13:17.000]  Okay.
[13:17.000 --> 13:21.000]  In any case, that'll be enough to get their attention.
[13:21.000 --> 13:23.000]  Yeah, that'll be enough to get their attention.
[13:23.000 --> 13:32.000]  But, you know, because of the way they want to play dirty pool, I'm interested in a little more than that.
[13:32.000 --> 13:39.000]  Well, if they pulled your credit, didn't they have a serious problem with you?
[13:39.000 --> 13:42.000]  Now you can go after them directly for that.
[13:42.000 --> 13:54.000]  And since they created this claim against you, when you had no obligation to them and harmed you in a business transaction,
[13:54.000 --> 14:01.000]  now you can file a tort action against them for the value of the property.
[14:01.000 --> 14:04.000]  That's $275,000.
[14:04.000 --> 14:06.000]  That'll work.
[14:06.000 --> 14:11.000]  Now they're going to say you can't claim the full value of the property. Let them claim whatever they want to.
[14:11.000 --> 14:21.000]  And the trick is, the thing to understand is, if you ask for a jury trial, at the end of the day,
[14:21.000 --> 14:29.000]  what the jury is going to remember more than anything is the amount you walked in the door with.
[14:29.000 --> 14:36.000]  The lawyers may do a song and dance and seltzer down your pants and try to whittle the number down.
[14:36.000 --> 14:40.000]  But in the end, that's the number they're going to work from.
[14:40.000 --> 14:42.000]  Either give you more or give you less.
[14:42.000 --> 14:46.000]  So you want to come in with as big a number as you can.
[14:46.000 --> 14:47.000]  Yeah.
[14:47.000 --> 14:50.000]  And I got another thing that'll tell me that you're on my side, too.
[14:50.000 --> 14:52.000]  I'm a disabled American veteran.
[14:52.000 --> 14:54.000]  That'll help.
[14:54.000 --> 15:00.000]  And in creating a number, don't just pull something out of the air.
[15:00.000 --> 15:07.000]  This benefit of the bargain claim, this loss of contract because of this, there you can say,
[15:07.000 --> 15:14.000]  this is the amount, this is the value of the deal that I lost due to their bad behavior.
[15:14.000 --> 15:17.000]  So you got an exact number.
[15:17.000 --> 15:20.000]  I had Robert Fox.
[15:20.000 --> 15:23.000]  He's been around a long time, helped a lot of people.
[15:23.000 --> 15:24.000]  He called me one day.
[15:24.000 --> 15:32.000]  I was in North Carolina and had two guys that had made a claim against a judge
[15:32.000 --> 15:34.000]  and the feds were coming after them for it.
[15:34.000 --> 15:37.000]  And I said, well, how much was the claim?
[15:37.000 --> 15:40.000]  11 trillion.
[15:40.000 --> 15:42.000]  Oh, 11 trillion.
[15:42.000 --> 15:44.000]  Well, what was the issue?
[15:44.000 --> 15:46.000]  Traffic.
[15:46.000 --> 15:47.000]  Duh.
[15:47.000 --> 15:50.000]  What were you thinking?
[15:50.000 --> 15:58.000]  So make it a number that the jury can see where you got it.
[15:58.000 --> 16:05.000]  They may think it's too much, but it's kind of like when you're in a negotiation,
[16:05.000 --> 16:09.000]  you want to start out as high as you can without being ridiculous.
[16:09.000 --> 16:11.000]  And then the fact that you're a veteran.
[16:11.000 --> 16:16.000]  Want them to get you to get them to meet somewhere around what you really want.
[16:16.000 --> 16:19.000]  Yes, exactly.
[16:19.000 --> 16:22.000]  The veteran card works pretty good.
[16:22.000 --> 16:25.000]  I was talking to my sheriff one day and he hated me.
[16:25.000 --> 16:27.000]  This one did.
[16:27.000 --> 16:30.000]  And I told him, now, Sheriff, I'm an old combat veteran.
[16:30.000 --> 16:31.000]  I don't hear so well.
[16:31.000 --> 16:35.000]  Will you look and speak clearly into my pen, please?
[16:35.000 --> 16:36.000]  There you go.
[16:36.000 --> 16:37.000]  Hang on.
[16:37.000 --> 16:39.000]  He'll be right back.
[16:39.000 --> 16:41.000]  This is Randy Kelton, Radio.
[16:41.000 --> 16:45.000]  I called in number 512-646-1984.
[16:45.000 --> 16:47.000]  Give us a call.
[16:47.000 --> 16:49.000]  You taking your calls all night?
[16:49.000 --> 17:00.000]  We'll be right back.
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[19:11.000 --> 19:34.000]  Look what we got, we asked the question, don't know what it is, don't have an answer.
[19:34.000 --> 19:49.000]  Look what we got, we asked the question, don't know what it is, don't have an answer.
[19:49.000 --> 19:50.000]  Okay, we are back.
[19:50.000 --> 19:53.000]  Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Wheel of Our Radio,
[19:53.000 --> 19:56.000]  and we're here with Jeff Sedrick.
[19:56.000 --> 20:00.000]  And we're talking to Doug in Indiana,
[20:00.000 --> 20:03.000]  and I have no doubt that Jeff is here to correct me.
[20:03.000 --> 20:05.000]  No, actually I'm not.
[20:05.000 --> 20:13.000]  But I am going to request that the court repeat what the Supreme Court said
[20:13.000 --> 20:18.000]  because I'm very suspicious of it.
[20:18.000 --> 20:27.000]  The property owner has ultimate responsibility or liability?
[20:27.000 --> 20:32.000]  Yes, it's over the sewer bill.
[20:32.000 --> 20:41.000]  Okay, but does it say that the owner has exclusive liability?
[20:41.000 --> 20:45.000]  Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what they use, exclusive.
[20:45.000 --> 20:49.000]  Be sure of that because if it's ultimate responsibility,
[20:49.000 --> 20:53.000]  then the secondary responsibility is yours.
[20:53.000 --> 21:00.000]  And if they come into court with the Supreme Court's statement that it's ultimate and not exclusive,
[21:00.000 --> 21:03.000]  you just filed a frivolous lawsuit, your case will be dismissed,
[21:03.000 --> 21:09.000]  and you might actually end up being very severely sanctioned.
[21:09.000 --> 21:12.000]  Okay.
[21:12.000 --> 21:16.000]  Reading these documents, you can't read white papers on them.
[21:16.000 --> 21:19.000]  You actually have to read the actual decision itself,
[21:19.000 --> 21:23.000]  and you have to actually read what is actually stated.
[21:23.000 --> 21:27.000]  And we have seen people read stuff that wasn't really there.
[21:27.000 --> 21:31.000]  So be very careful with it.
[21:31.000 --> 21:38.000]  Don't read other people's opinions as to what the case means.
[21:38.000 --> 21:40.000]  Right.
[21:40.000 --> 21:45.000]  Sometimes they have opinions that suit their needs.
[21:45.000 --> 21:52.000]  I had a friend in an IRS lien issue.
[21:52.000 --> 22:00.000]  The IRS lawyers filed an action, and they included case law in there,
[22:00.000 --> 22:04.000]  and we told Ben, make sure you read their case law.
[22:04.000 --> 22:06.000]  He read their case law.
[22:06.000 --> 22:13.000]  And the paragraph they had cited was a paragraph where the court said,
[22:13.000 --> 22:18.000]  prior to this case, this was the position the court held,
[22:18.000 --> 22:21.000]  and that's what these lawyers put in there.
[22:21.000 --> 22:25.000]  Where's the other shoe?
[22:25.000 --> 22:27.000]  How did he hammer them?
[22:27.000 --> 22:30.000]  Where's the other shoe?
[22:30.000 --> 22:33.000]  What the lawyers did is they did a search for what they wanted.
[22:33.000 --> 22:39.000]  They got a hit on it, and they saw a case that said what they wanted it to say,
[22:39.000 --> 22:41.000]  and they quoted it.
[22:41.000 --> 22:45.000]  They didn't bother to read the whole case or the context that it was in.
[22:45.000 --> 22:48.000]  We find this a lot.
[22:48.000 --> 22:54.000]  Claiming citations, when I go to look them up, they're not there.
[22:54.000 --> 22:59.000]  The language they use, I do a string search on the language they use.
[22:59.000 --> 23:02.000]  It's not in the case, and this is really common.
[23:02.000 --> 23:05.000]  Do you know where you will find that a lot?
[23:05.000 --> 23:07.000]  Well, where's that?
[23:07.000 --> 23:10.000]  In the headnotes on LexisNexis.
[23:10.000 --> 23:13.000]  Yeah, I was going to say Lexis.
[23:13.000 --> 23:21.000]  You'll find headnotes that say that the court that will infer that the court found a particular way when it didn't.
[23:21.000 --> 23:22.000]  Yeah.
[23:22.000 --> 23:25.000]  So you have to read the whole case, everything.
[23:25.000 --> 23:32.000]  Well, this is from doing a Google search and pulling it up from several different places,
[23:32.000 --> 23:40.000]  and they all say the same thing, but I haven't done, you know, like you said.
[23:40.000 --> 23:43.000]  I need to shepardize, that's what I need to do.
[23:43.000 --> 23:53.000]  Well, what you need to do is pull that Supreme Court case down, the actual findings of the court.
[23:53.000 --> 23:56.000]  Yeah, I've done that too and read it.
[23:56.000 --> 24:04.000]  Okay, if you don't have direct access to shepherds, and that's, I think, Lexis owns shepherds now,
[24:04.000 --> 24:09.000]  take the case name and run it on the internet.
[24:09.000 --> 24:12.000]  We have a lot of lawyers out there.
[24:12.000 --> 24:22.000]  We have lawyers who specialize in certain things, and they will write papers on cases that have changed
[24:22.000 --> 24:25.000]  and give their opinion on those cases.
[24:25.000 --> 24:33.000]  If I run a case and I don't get any hits on it, I can be relatively certain it hasn't changed.
[24:33.000 --> 24:44.000]  If I get hits on it, then I get three or four, I want to see three or four different perspectives on what that case means.
[24:44.000 --> 24:54.000]  And then when I read it and come to my own conclusion, I can see how it fits in with how real lawyers consider the case.
[24:54.000 --> 25:03.000]  Another way to go is to look up the case sites that were cited within the case.
[25:03.000 --> 25:07.000]  Yeah, I've been reviewing some of those too.
[25:07.000 --> 25:12.000]  Yeah, and you have to read the entire judicial order, I mean, all the way to the very end,
[25:12.000 --> 25:20.000]  because you will find that they'll say that this is the way that things are,
[25:20.000 --> 25:27.000]  you don't care what anybody else says, and then in the final paragraph it will say, not.
[25:27.000 --> 25:31.000]  Reverse and remain.
[25:31.000 --> 25:35.000]  So you have to be very careful, you have to read the whole thing.
[25:35.000 --> 25:43.000]  Yeah, when I read the case, I read it all the way through, because you never know what to say at the end.
[25:43.000 --> 25:52.000]  Yeah, you don't read these things once, you read them four, five, six times, because they are a struggle,
[25:52.000 --> 25:57.000]  and when you're struggling, you're not picking up everything that's there.
[25:57.000 --> 26:09.000]  Yeah, I've pulled off all the court case laws that they cited in the case and looked at them, and they all seem to say the same thing.
[26:09.000 --> 26:14.000]  Okay, now, another thing that will give you, perhaps be an aid for you,
[26:14.000 --> 26:22.000]  is the new Adobe Reader DC will read a PDF out loud.
[26:22.000 --> 26:29.000]  Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's nice, because you can sit and do whatever, listen instead of reading.
[26:29.000 --> 26:34.000]  Well, no, actually you need to do both at the same time,
[26:34.000 --> 26:40.000]  because you'll find sometimes that you'll hear the voice say things you didn't hear, you didn't see.
[26:40.000 --> 26:43.000]  Yeah, yeah.
[26:43.000 --> 26:44.000]  Okay.
[26:44.000 --> 26:47.000]  You can't get the expression out of the words.
[26:47.000 --> 26:55.000]  Well, it's, yeah. So, you know, that's something that might be of help to you.
[26:55.000 --> 26:59.000]  So, Adobe Reader PC?
[26:59.000 --> 27:02.000]  DC.
[27:02.000 --> 27:04.000]  DC, okay.
[27:04.000 --> 27:09.000]  So, if he's doing me any ways, I use it a lot.
[27:09.000 --> 27:13.000]  And you can get different voices for it, too.
[27:13.000 --> 27:16.000]  Yeah, I like that. Yeah, you can change them around.
[27:16.000 --> 27:19.000]  Get tired of one, you can switch it.
[27:19.000 --> 27:21.000]  That should help you on that.
[27:21.000 --> 27:30.000]  But I would, you know, you've got a lot of groundwork to get done before you even consider putting together a federal FDCPA lawsuit.
[27:30.000 --> 27:41.000]  But at the same time, it's not going to hurt you one little bit for you to file a dispute and demand for validation.
[27:41.000 --> 27:42.000]  Yeah.
[27:42.000 --> 27:45.000]  And then you're in Indiana.
[27:45.000 --> 27:50.000]  So, I do not know what the rules are in Indiana for execution on a lien.
[27:50.000 --> 27:55.000]  But you may want to find out what the rules are for execution on a lien,
[27:55.000 --> 28:01.000]  because they have to file a writ for execution in many states.
[28:01.000 --> 28:06.000]  In some states, they have to post a bond that is double the amount of the lien.
[28:06.000 --> 28:21.000]  And if they violate those prohibitions or fail to concur with the laws on executing a lien, they can find themselves in very deep trouble.
[28:21.000 --> 28:28.000]  And that's so that sometimes if you catch them at it and they're doing wrong, the whole thing will go away.
[28:28.000 --> 28:32.000]  Right now, it's just a judgment. They haven't filed any liens.
[28:32.000 --> 28:33.000]  Okay.
[28:33.000 --> 28:36.000]  Not that I got noticed of, anyways.
[28:36.000 --> 28:40.000]  When you moved, did you file in a change of address form?
[28:40.000 --> 28:41.000]  Yes.
[28:41.000 --> 28:49.000]  Okay. So, your argument, find out if proper service is first-class mail.
[28:49.000 --> 28:51.000]  Yeah, they say it is.
[28:51.000 --> 28:52.000]  Who's they?
[28:52.000 --> 28:54.000]  They even do notice by...
[28:54.000 --> 28:56.000]  Who's they?
[28:56.000 --> 28:57.000]  Who's they?
[28:57.000 --> 29:00.000]  The law, the state code.
[29:00.000 --> 29:05.000]  So, the Rules of Civil Procedure says that it's okay to send a first-class mail.
[29:05.000 --> 29:10.000]  Yeah, Rules of Civil Procedure even says notice by publication of the last resort.
[29:10.000 --> 29:15.000]  No, no, no, no, no. You have to get court permissions for it.
[29:15.000 --> 29:17.000]  Okay.
[29:17.000 --> 29:22.000]  So, they can actually serve you by a first-class mail.
[29:22.000 --> 29:26.000]  No certified mail, no personal service, just first-class mail?
[29:26.000 --> 29:27.000]  Mm-hmm.
[29:27.000 --> 29:29.000]  You want to bet the life of your firstborn on that?
[29:29.000 --> 29:33.000]  That's second. Yeah.
[29:33.000 --> 29:35.000]  Personal service first.
[29:35.000 --> 29:40.000]  Right. Well, in order to do the second, they have to have court's permission on it.
[29:40.000 --> 29:44.000]  You need to go back and reread the rules.
[29:44.000 --> 29:47.000]  I don't see anything on where it says they needed to see it happen.
[29:47.000 --> 29:48.000]  Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. Hang on.
[29:48.000 --> 29:49.000]  I'm about to go to break.
[29:49.000 --> 29:51.000]  Randy Felton, we'll go to radio.
[29:51.000 --> 29:55.000]  Call in number 512-646-1984.
[29:55.000 --> 30:00.000]  We'll be right back.
[30:00.000 --> 30:04.000]  Trash trucks across California are rumbling down city streets
[30:04.000 --> 30:07.000]  using clean fuel made from a dirty source.
[30:07.000 --> 30:08.000]  Garbage.
[30:08.000 --> 30:12.000]  Brilliant innovation or feel-good environmental lunacy.
[30:12.000 --> 30:15.000]  I'm Dr. Kathryn Albrecht, and I'll be back in just a moment with more.
[30:15.000 --> 30:19.000]  Your search engine is watching you, recording all your searches
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[30:46.000 --> 30:51.000]  Liquified natural gas, or LNG, is methane gas turned into a liquid.
[30:51.000 --> 30:54.000]  It's a renewable resource that can be produced from landfills
[30:54.000 --> 30:56.000]  like the one in Altamont, California.
[30:56.000 --> 31:00.000]  There, the gas from decaying garbage gets sucked into tubes
[31:00.000 --> 31:04.000]  and sent to a facility to be converted into liquified natural gas.
[31:04.000 --> 31:09.000]  The 15,000 gallons produced each day are then used to fuel garbage trucks.
[31:09.000 --> 31:14.000]  Critics note that liquefying and transporting LNG takes a lot of energy in itself,
[31:14.000 --> 31:17.000]  which reduces the overall environmental benefit,
[31:17.000 --> 31:21.000]  though the fuel may still be better than traditional fuels like oil or coal.
[31:21.000 --> 31:25.000]  But in any case, fueling garbage trucks with garbage is a spiffy idea.
[31:25.000 --> 31:31.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht. More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com.
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[32:01.000 --> 32:05.000]  Rule of Law Radio is proud to offer the Rule of Law traffic seminar.
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[33:26.000 --> 33:28.000]  Good job is to protect our services.
[33:29.000 --> 33:31.000]  Not beat our views.
[33:32.000 --> 33:33.000]  Not disserve.
[33:34.000 --> 33:37.000]  When you gonna stop abuse,
[33:37.000 --> 33:39.000]  you'll have a hard work.
[33:40.000 --> 33:42.000]  When you gonna stop abuse,
[33:43.000 --> 33:45.000]  you'll have a hard work.
[33:46.000 --> 33:48.000]  When you gonna stop abuse,
[33:48.000 --> 33:50.000]  you'll have a hard work.
[33:51.000 --> 33:53.000]  When you gonna stop abuse,
[33:53.000 --> 33:55.000]  you'll have a hard work.
[33:58.000 --> 33:59.000]  Okay, we are back.
[33:59.000 --> 34:03.000]  Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Rule of Law Radio on this,
[34:03.000 --> 34:07.000]  the 15th day of October, 2015,
[34:07.000 --> 34:09.000]  and we're talking to Doug in Indiana.
[34:10.000 --> 34:12.000]  Doug, we do need to kind of move along.
[34:13.000 --> 34:14.000]  Where are we with you?
[34:14.000 --> 34:17.000]  Have we, you haven't really asked us a question.
[34:18.000 --> 34:20.000]  Do you have a question for us?
[34:20.000 --> 34:22.000]  Well, I was just wondering,
[34:22.000 --> 34:26.000]  in case you was talking about the
[34:26.000 --> 34:28.000]  shooting for,
[34:28.000 --> 34:30.000]  oh God,
[34:30.000 --> 34:32.000]  I'm trying to solve it now.
[34:33.000 --> 34:35.000]  For the loss of the deal,
[34:35.000 --> 34:38.000]  the deal you lost because of the mark on your credit.
[34:39.000 --> 34:40.000]  You can't claim,
[34:40.000 --> 34:42.000]  since they weren't in a contract,
[34:42.000 --> 34:43.000]  actually that's correct,
[34:43.000 --> 34:45.000]  you can't claim benefit of the bargain,
[34:45.000 --> 34:48.000]  but you can claim the tort action against them.
[34:48.000 --> 34:50.000]  Okay.
[34:52.000 --> 34:54.000]  Would the tort action be what?
[34:54.000 --> 34:55.000]  Then it's the same thing?
[34:56.000 --> 35:00.000]  Tort is a type of a cause of action.
[35:01.000 --> 35:04.000]  That's the kind you use when someone harms you
[35:04.000 --> 35:07.000]  and you're not in a contractual relationship with them.
[35:09.000 --> 35:11.000]  If you're in a contractual relationship with them,
[35:11.000 --> 35:14.000]  then it rings in cause of action.
[35:14.000 --> 35:17.000]  If you're not, it rings in tort.
[35:18.000 --> 35:19.000]  Yeah.
[35:20.000 --> 35:22.000]  Okay. Do you have anything else for us?
[35:23.000 --> 35:24.000]  That's it.
[35:25.000 --> 35:27.000]  Okay. Thank you, Doug.
[35:27.000 --> 35:30.000]  Now we're going to go to Chris in Florida.
[35:30.000 --> 35:32.000]  Hello, Chris.
[35:33.000 --> 35:35.000]  Hey, Randy. Good evening, everybody.
[35:35.000 --> 35:36.000]  Good evening.
[35:36.000 --> 35:39.000]  What do you have for us today?
[35:40.000 --> 35:42.000]  Randy, first question is,
[35:42.000 --> 35:46.000]  I've been trying to get the name, if you can help me spell out,
[35:46.000 --> 35:52.000]  of the federal case or the defendant
[35:52.000 --> 35:57.000]  sued the opposing counsel for rendering a frivolous note.
[35:58.000 --> 36:03.000]  Santiago V. Mackey, M-A-C-K-Y.
[36:04.000 --> 36:10.000]  Santiago V. M-C-K-Y.
[36:10.000 --> 36:15.000]  M-A-C-K, I think it's K-Y or K-I-E,
[36:15.000 --> 36:17.000]  either spelling or gets you the case.
[36:17.000 --> 36:19.000]  Let me look it up real quick.
[36:21.000 --> 36:24.000]  But it is a Texas case,
[36:24.000 --> 36:27.000]  but if you run it from Florida,
[36:27.000 --> 36:31.000]  you'll probably get Florida cases that reference it.
[36:32.000 --> 36:35.000]  Okay. Texas. Very nice. Santiago V. Mackey.
[36:35.000 --> 36:39.000]  It's Mac. It's M-A-C-K-I-E.
[36:40.000 --> 36:44.000]  M-C-K, okay. Got you that.
[36:45.000 --> 36:48.000]  Very good. Now, my next question, Randy.
[36:49.000 --> 36:53.000]  This week, I visited the trustee
[36:53.000 --> 36:56.000]  for the bankruptcy of the original lender,
[36:57.000 --> 37:01.000]  and I was trying to get all the documents pertaining
[37:01.000 --> 37:05.000]  to the transfer of beneficial right, title, and interest
[37:06.000 --> 37:08.000]  to my property.
[37:08.000 --> 37:12.000]  And nervously so, they came back to me
[37:12.000 --> 37:15.000]  with all sorts of answers, none sent.
[37:16.000 --> 37:19.000]  And he also rendered me a document,
[37:19.000 --> 37:23.000]  which is a federal order granting trustee
[37:23.000 --> 37:27.000]  a minimum motion for authorizing to destroy records.
[37:27.000 --> 37:29.000]  Okay. Hold on, hold on. Okay.
[37:29.000 --> 37:32.000]  Bring us up to speed on where you're at.
[37:33.000 --> 37:36.000]  As I recall, this is a bankruptcy issue?
[37:37.000 --> 37:41.000]  Well, the original lender went belly up.
[37:41.000 --> 37:46.000]  So, he filed for bankruptcy.
[37:46.000 --> 37:48.000]  No, my case is a foreclosure.
[37:48.000 --> 37:56.000]  And I'm trying to find the true nature
[37:56.000 --> 38:01.000]  of ownership or the actual ownership of my note.
[38:01.000 --> 38:06.000]  Okay. Hold on. Are you in foreclosure at the moment?
[38:06.000 --> 38:08.000]  That is correct.
[38:08.000 --> 38:12.000]  Okay. Have you filed for discovery?
[38:13.000 --> 38:15.000]  Yes.
[38:16.000 --> 38:19.000]  What did you ask for in discovery?
[38:19.000 --> 38:24.000]  Among many things, for depositions.
[38:24.000 --> 38:29.000]  And I have an attorney who has helped me with that.
[38:29.000 --> 38:32.000]  Who did you ask to depose?
[38:32.000 --> 38:34.000]  Deposits.
[38:35.000 --> 38:37.000]  Wow, I don't have that thought.
[38:37.000 --> 38:38.000]  Here's where I'm going.
[38:38.000 --> 38:41.000]  You've got a lender here who's going bankrupt.
[38:41.000 --> 38:45.000]  And I'm going to ask you,
[38:45.000 --> 38:49.000]  who's going bankrupt?
[38:49.000 --> 38:54.000]  And did the lender assign the security instrument
[38:54.000 --> 38:56.000]  to some other party?
[38:56.000 --> 38:58.000]  That's exactly what I'm trying to find out.
[38:58.000 --> 39:01.000]  And that's why I was formulating that question to you
[39:01.000 --> 39:03.000]  so you could give me a quick answer
[39:03.000 --> 39:06.000]  on that specific question that I initiated.
[39:06.000 --> 39:09.000]  So then I can go towards what you're going to right now.
[39:09.000 --> 39:16.000]  Okay. Is there an assignment of the security instrument
[39:16.000 --> 39:20.000]  filed in the public record?
[39:20.000 --> 39:22.000]  Yes.
[39:22.000 --> 39:27.000]  Who assigned it to who?
[39:27.000 --> 39:30.000]  Original lender assigned it to MERS.
[39:30.000 --> 39:34.000]  And there is a, about a month ago,
[39:34.000 --> 39:40.000]  I found that this signature, I did a really nice project on that.
[39:40.000 --> 39:45.000]  And I did about 10 years signature investigation
[39:45.000 --> 39:51.000]  where none of the signatures from the original lender matched
[39:51.000 --> 39:54.000]  the one on the...
[39:54.000 --> 40:00.000]  Oh, you mean your signatures on the documents?
[40:00.000 --> 40:04.000]  No, the signature of the original lender.
[40:04.000 --> 40:11.000]  Okay. The original lender wouldn't be on the mortgage.
[40:11.000 --> 40:15.000]  And was each signature the same entity?
[40:15.000 --> 40:18.000]  Because often it's a different person from the company,
[40:18.000 --> 40:23.000]  so the signatures won't be the same.
[40:23.000 --> 40:33.000]  So on the mortgage and the note, the lender did sign them.
[40:33.000 --> 40:38.000]  The faulty signature is on the assignment of the mortgage.
[40:38.000 --> 40:47.000]  Who was the party who signed it for the lender?
[40:47.000 --> 40:51.000]  What I'm getting at is was it the same individual who signed every document?
[40:51.000 --> 40:54.000]  Yes. Yes.
[40:54.000 --> 41:00.000]  The name as it's spelled out underneath of his signature, yes.
[41:00.000 --> 41:08.000]  Okay. Have you had someone with experience in graphology look at the signature?
[41:08.000 --> 41:13.000]  It's such an absurd, Randy, that everybody has looked into it
[41:13.000 --> 41:16.000]  and as a matter of fact, I have a meeting tomorrow because of this.
[41:16.000 --> 41:26.000]  I had someone recently send me two signatures that they claimed were not the same hand.
[41:26.000 --> 41:32.000]  And I looked at them and absolutely they were the same hand.
[41:32.000 --> 41:37.000]  Now the signatures looked entirely different from a general perspective,
[41:37.000 --> 41:40.000]  and that's why you need a graphologist to look at it.
[41:40.000 --> 41:50.000]  My question would be when they made a T or an L or the up line on an H,
[41:50.000 --> 41:55.000]  did the lines draw back over the top of one another?
[41:55.000 --> 42:00.000]  Did they make a loop? Did they have a point at the top of the loop?
[42:00.000 --> 42:10.000]  Did the line leading in start away from the upright and roll up into it or did it start right at it?
[42:10.000 --> 42:13.000]  Were there any hooks in the loop?
[42:13.000 --> 42:17.000]  When they crossed the T, did they cross the T in the center,
[42:17.000 --> 42:21.000]  at the top of the T, above the T, or down at the bottom?
[42:21.000 --> 42:26.000]  Was the T made like a tent or was it straight up and down?
[42:26.000 --> 42:29.000]  Or did they lean forward or lean back?
[42:29.000 --> 42:37.000]  In graphology, you don't really pay so much attention to generally what it looks like.
[42:37.000 --> 42:45.000]  You look more closely at how the individuals make the letters that they make.
[42:45.000 --> 42:51.000]  And there are some very distinctive peculiarities in every hand you look at.
[42:51.000 --> 42:57.000]  And where you have the same peculiarities in two different hands, even though they look different,
[42:57.000 --> 43:04.000]  sometimes I'll sign fast, sometimes I'll sign slow, and they do not look alike.
[43:04.000 --> 43:06.000]  But if you get a graphologist to look at,
[43:06.000 --> 43:14.000]  he can give you a good determination before you go into court and they sting you good.
[43:14.000 --> 43:21.000]  Randy, I could answer that question very quickly as saying that each and every single professional in law,
[43:21.000 --> 43:27.000]  I have not put in the profession for that specific thing,
[43:27.000 --> 43:34.000]  but every single law profession that I've showed my project, they immediately consider that.
[43:34.000 --> 43:40.000]  Well, the one I looked at, lawyer had decided that they weren't the same hand,
[43:40.000 --> 43:42.000]  and I looked at it and absolutely didn't want to.
[43:42.000 --> 43:48.000]  Send them to me, I'll look at them and give you respect from a graphology standpoint.
[43:48.000 --> 43:54.000]  Coming on Randy Kelton Wheelbarrow Radio, call in number 512-646-1984.
[43:54.000 --> 43:56.000]  Call lines are open, they'll be open all night.
[43:56.000 --> 44:02.000]  We'll be right back.
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[44:43.000 --> 45:01.000]  Don't forget to like us on Facebook for information on events and our products, NaturesPureOrganics.com.
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[46:14.000 --> 46:34.000]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio, and we're talking to Chris in Florida.
[46:34.000 --> 46:39.000]  Okay, Chris, I'd like to look at those. Send them to me.
[46:39.000 --> 46:51.000]  And if I determine that they're the same handwriting, I will show you exactly how I got there so you can check.
[46:51.000 --> 47:00.000]  Once you know what to look for, it really becomes clear when one is the same and what's not.
[47:00.000 --> 47:01.000]  Anyway, okay.
[47:01.000 --> 47:05.000]  Your email right now, it should be the link right there. Just press the link, it will pop it open.
[47:05.000 --> 47:13.000]  Okay. Have you asked for a deposition for this person?
[47:13.000 --> 47:16.000]  Yes. Yes, I have.
[47:16.000 --> 47:19.000]  I take it they filed a motion to quash?
[47:19.000 --> 47:24.000]  That's what I'm going to learn tomorrow. From this person, I don't know yet.
[47:24.000 --> 47:32.000]  I'll learn tomorrow because I have to meet with my counsel on this.
[47:32.000 --> 47:40.000]  Okay, you sent me a letter.
[47:40.000 --> 47:46.000]  Okay, go ahead.
[47:46.000 --> 47:48.000]  No, I did send that to your email.
[47:48.000 --> 47:51.000]  So I have the following question.
[47:51.000 --> 47:56.000]  While you try to open the email, just press the link.
[47:56.000 --> 48:13.000]  So what I'm trying to learn from the trustee of the original lender is what was the final destination given to all documents pertaining to the transfer of my note.
[48:13.000 --> 48:27.000]  So they handed to me this grant from federal court that they can dispose and abandon the case.
[48:27.000 --> 48:31.000]  Does that mean that I have no other resource to get any information from them?
[48:31.000 --> 48:36.000]  Well, that means they can't prove up their position.
[48:36.000 --> 48:38.000]  Okay.
[48:38.000 --> 48:44.000]  And they're going to say, well, we got authorization to destroy them all. It's your call.
[48:44.000 --> 48:57.000]  You know, I was reading a case here where the Dallas County District Attorney sued Merz for all the money they should have paid the court clerk for all of these filings they should have done.
[48:57.000 --> 49:02.000]  And Merz filed a motion to dismiss claiming that the suit was frivolous.
[49:02.000 --> 49:04.000]  And I agreed with him.
[49:04.000 --> 49:11.000]  There was no requirement for them to file these assignments in the public record.
[49:11.000 --> 49:19.000]  But they went on to say, however, if we do not, we may not have a perfected claim.
[49:19.000 --> 49:23.000]  And I said, yeah, that's what that was my position.
[49:23.000 --> 49:28.000]  So the rule is, is you can screw yourself if you want to.
[49:28.000 --> 49:32.000]  Sure. The court said you could destroy all those documents.
[49:32.000 --> 49:36.000]  Bubba, you're in litigation with one of those cases.
[49:36.000 --> 49:44.000]  And now you're going to come to the court and say, oh, I can't prove up my position because I destroyed the documents.
[49:44.000 --> 49:47.000]  Well, sorry, Bubba.
[49:47.000 --> 49:51.000]  You can't collect.
[49:51.000 --> 49:55.000]  And what, is that a federal case, Randy?
[49:55.000 --> 50:01.000]  Oh, that's, that's hundreds of federal cases.
[50:01.000 --> 50:14.000]  Any time you make a, when they may send you a, a presentment, a presentment under the UCC is a demand for payments in United States dollars.
[50:14.000 --> 50:16.000]  They send you a presentment.
[50:16.000 --> 50:20.000]  It's presumed to be regular.
[50:20.000 --> 50:22.000]  Unless you dispute it.
[50:22.000 --> 50:26.000]  And once you dispute it, they must prove it up.
[50:26.000 --> 50:29.000]  Have you? Hold on just a second.
[50:29.000 --> 50:31.000]  Go ahead.
[50:31.000 --> 50:43.000]  Have you asked, have you requested a, have you disputed the debt and requested an accounting?
[50:43.000 --> 50:45.000]  Yes, I have.
[50:45.000 --> 50:49.000]  Did you receive a complete accounting?
[50:49.000 --> 50:52.000]  I would say partial.
[50:52.000 --> 50:55.000]  Partial is what we normally get.
[50:55.000 --> 51:04.000]  How far back, did it go back to the, the dates in the spreadsheets they would have sent you?
[51:04.000 --> 51:08.000]  Did they go all the way back to the data, to the note?
[51:08.000 --> 51:11.000]  Yeah, let me, let me add to this.
[51:11.000 --> 51:17.000]  I did request that from the comported lender, but not from the trustee.
[51:17.000 --> 51:18.000]  Doesn't matter.
[51:18.000 --> 51:19.000]  I'm just getting comported.
[51:19.000 --> 51:21.000]  The lender is the one that should have had it.
[51:21.000 --> 51:25.000]  The creditor is the one who should have it.
[51:25.000 --> 51:27.000]  If they don't have it.
[51:27.000 --> 51:35.000]  And the reason I asked about the dates is we've, we've made several disputes of debt lately.
[51:35.000 --> 51:44.000]  And what we get back from the servicer are the records that the servicer has.
[51:44.000 --> 51:50.000]  And the servicer will give you records from the time they took over the note.
[51:50.000 --> 51:59.000]  In looking at that, that's an indication that they are a debt buyer and not the creditor.
[51:59.000 --> 52:01.000]  That is what I have.
[52:01.000 --> 52:02.000]  Okay.
[52:02.000 --> 52:05.000]  There, that's an indication they're the debt buyer.
[52:05.000 --> 52:15.000]  That should get a discovery request for all of the records all the way back to the original date.
[52:15.000 --> 52:25.000]  They're saying that you owe X amount of dollars and they're saying that our records show on this day,
[52:25.000 --> 52:29.000]  we came into possession of this claim.
[52:29.000 --> 52:38.000]  And at that date, you owed X amount of dollars and you paid Y number of payments.
[52:38.000 --> 52:42.000]  Now your payoff amount is Z.
[52:42.000 --> 52:46.000]  Well, Bubba, X is a problem.
[52:46.000 --> 52:50.000]  How do you know X is correct?
[52:50.000 --> 52:59.000]  Can you demonstrate that during the X time period, before you received it,
[52:59.000 --> 53:11.000]  that all of the monies you paid in were properly credited to principal interest in escrow?
[53:11.000 --> 53:16.000]  It's not enough in law for you to make a proactive statement.
[53:16.000 --> 53:24.000]  You know, I tell people about writing documents is never make a proactive statement of law out of your own mouth.
[53:24.000 --> 53:32.000]  Never make a proactive statement of fact absent affidavit.
[53:32.000 --> 53:37.000]  You need to be able to prove up everything.
[53:37.000 --> 53:42.000]  And just to say that you owe X amounts not enough, you've got to prove it.
[53:42.000 --> 53:46.000]  This is not something that's somebody's idea or vague in general.
[53:46.000 --> 53:48.000]  This is dollars and cents.
[53:48.000 --> 53:52.000]  They should be able to demonstrate what you owe to the penny.
[53:52.000 --> 54:01.000]  If they can't, that's an indication that when this company went bankrupt,
[54:01.000 --> 54:07.000]  that your property was not an asset of this company.
[54:07.000 --> 54:09.000]  This was the deal with Washington Mutual.
[54:09.000 --> 54:15.000]  Washington Mutual went out of business or was put out of business by the CIA for London drug money.
[54:15.000 --> 54:21.000]  And Chase accrued all of the assets of Washington Mutual.
[54:21.000 --> 54:30.000]  Well, the first question becomes, was this particular note an asset of Washington Mutual at that time?
[54:30.000 --> 54:36.000]  When your lender assigned the security instrument to someone else,
[54:36.000 --> 54:40.000]  did they actually hold that in their portfolio at the time?
[54:40.000 --> 54:48.000]  You might ask to look at their portfolio holdings at the time of the purported transfer
[54:48.000 --> 54:52.000]  to see if your note is in their portfolio.
[54:52.000 --> 54:55.000]  Almost certainly it was not.
[54:55.000 --> 55:01.000]  It was already transferred to someone else.
[55:01.000 --> 55:05.000]  And they didn't give notice like they're required to under the Federal Collections,
[55:05.000 --> 55:07.000]  under the Real Estate Settler Procedures Act.
[55:07.000 --> 55:13.000]  Within 30 days of them transferring benefits or interest, they're required to notify you.
[55:13.000 --> 55:18.000]  And in the mortgage, mortgages are somewhat different than deeds of trust,
[55:18.000 --> 55:21.000]  so the covenant numbers may change slightly.
[55:21.000 --> 55:25.000]  You have a covenant in there for notice.
[55:25.000 --> 55:29.000]  Both parties are required to give all notices as required by law,
[55:29.000 --> 55:33.000]  and generally it says by certified mail, blah, blah, blah.
[55:33.000 --> 55:40.000]  And then the very next one will be the Governing Law and Severability Clause.
[55:40.000 --> 55:45.000]  Said both parties will abide by all relevant law.
[55:45.000 --> 55:49.000]  Well, one of the relevant laws is the Real Estate Settler Procedures Act
[55:49.000 --> 55:57.000]  that requires them to give you notice.
[55:57.000 --> 56:05.000]  They can't now come to the court and try to exercise the privilege
[56:05.000 --> 56:13.000]  of a confessed claim against your property that's contained in the mortgage document
[56:13.000 --> 56:19.000]  because they're already in default of the covenants of the mortgage document.
[56:19.000 --> 56:22.000]  They can't come and accuse you of being in default of the document
[56:22.000 --> 56:24.000]  when they're already in default.
[56:24.000 --> 56:29.000]  By defaulting on the document themselves, they repudiated the contract
[56:29.000 --> 56:31.000]  and they can't make the claim.
[56:31.000 --> 56:40.000]  So you want to go back and see a complete accounting from day one.
[56:40.000 --> 56:45.000]  And this is not unreasonable.
[56:45.000 --> 56:52.000]  And they can't claim that it's either unreasonable or costly or cumbersome.
[56:52.000 --> 56:58.000]  That's the normal complaints because the standing law requires them
[56:58.000 --> 57:01.000]  to maintain this documentation.
[57:01.000 --> 57:09.000]  It requires them to maintain the documentation in a system that will avoid errors.
[57:09.000 --> 57:14.000]  And the standing law requires them to produce this information on demand.
[57:14.000 --> 57:18.000]  That's part of the contractual agreement.
[57:18.000 --> 57:25.000]  So you're just asking them to comply with the contract with what they agreed to do
[57:25.000 --> 57:32.000]  so they can't complain about the discovery if you ask it right.
[57:32.000 --> 57:40.000]  For all that other junk about securitization, I don't ever go there.
[57:40.000 --> 57:42.000]  I don't need to.
[57:42.000 --> 57:45.000]  Stay in that contract.
[57:45.000 --> 57:48.000]  I don't care about securitization.
[57:48.000 --> 57:52.000]  What I do care about is you show where every dollar went to.
[57:52.000 --> 57:57.000]  And the Roe Dash case, that's a Florida case.
[57:57.000 --> 58:00.000]  Are you familiar with Roe Dash?
[58:00.000 --> 58:07.000]  I've initiated reading about it, but I have not finished all my research on that end, no.
[58:07.000 --> 58:09.000]  Okay, we're about to go to break.
[58:09.000 --> 58:11.000]  When we come back, we'll talk about Roe Dash.
[58:11.000 --> 58:16.000]  Roe Dash caused new legislation to be put in place.
[58:16.000 --> 58:22.000]  But once the new legislation was put in place, the banks went back to the old procedures.
[58:22.000 --> 58:24.000]  And they're still doing the same things.
[58:24.000 --> 58:33.000]  And I'll talk about how to make a claim there that goes directly to a very complete account.
[58:33.000 --> 58:35.000]  Hang on, Randy Kelton, we have a radio.
[58:35.000 --> 58:39.000]  I'll call the number, 512-646-1984.
[58:39.000 --> 58:40.000]  Ralph, I'll see you there.
[58:40.000 --> 58:50.000]  We'll get to you when we come back on the other side.
[58:50.000 --> 58:54.000]  The Bible remains the most popular book in the world.
[58:54.000 --> 58:58.000]  Yet countless readers are frustrated because they struggle to understand it.
[58:58.000 --> 59:02.000]  Some new translations try to help by simplifying the text,
[59:02.000 --> 59:07.000]  but in the process can compromise the profound meaning of the Scripture.
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[59:13.000 --> 59:18.000]  but the real story is the more than 9,000 explanatory footnotes.
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[59:48.000 --> 59:53.000]  That's freestudybible.com.
[59:53.000 --> 01:00:01.000]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com.
[01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:05.000]  The following news flash is brought to you by the Lone Star Lowdown,
[01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:08.000]  providing the jelly bulletins for the commodities market,
[01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:21.000]  today in history, news updates, and the inside scoop into the tides of the alternative.
[01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:27.000]  Markets for the 6th of October, 2015 open up with gold at $1,147.08 an ounce,
[01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:33.000]  silver $15.88 an ounce, Texas crude $46.26 a barrel,
[01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:43.000]  and Bitcoin is currently sitting at about $246 U.S. currency.
[01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:49.000]  Today in history, Sunday, October 6, 1889, Thomas Edison screens his very first motion picture,
[01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:57.000]  kickstarting a new art form and industry centered around motion pictures.
[01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:03.000]  In recent news, medical aid group Medicines Sans Frontieres or Medicines Without Frontiers or Borders
[01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:07.000]  is calling for an independent international inquiry into a suspected U.S. airstrike
[01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:12.000]  that killed 22 people in an Afghan hospital, calling the attack a war crime.
[01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:15.000]  U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter stated the following,
[01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:19.000]  quote, we do know that American air assets were engaged in the Kunduz vicinity,
[01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:23.000]  and we do know that the structures that you see in the news were destroyed.
[01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:26.000]  I just can't tell you what the connection is at the time.
[01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:30.000]  MSF General Director Christopher Strokes said that under the clear presumption
[01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:36.000]  that a war crime has been committed, MSF demands that a full and transparent investigation
[01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:39.000]  into the event be conducted by an independent international body.
[01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:44.000]  President Obama offered condolences on Saturday to victims of what he called the tragic incident.
[01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:48.000]  U.S.-led coalition forces in Afghanistan said it expected to complete
[01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:57.000]  its preliminary multinational investigation within days.
[01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:01.000]  The Justice Department is preparing to release roughly 6,000 inmates from federal prison
[01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:05.000]  as part of an effort to ease overcrowding and cut back on the harsh penalties
[01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.000]  given to nonviolent victimless drug dealers since the 80s and 90s,
[01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:11.000]  according to federal law enforcement officials.
[01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:14.000]  The release is scheduled to occur from October 30th to November 2nd
[01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:19.000]  and will be one of the largest one-time discharges of inmates from federal prisons in American history.
[01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:24.000]  The Bureau of Prisons is arranging for many of the inmates to initially move into halfway houses.
[01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:27.000]  The United States has a quarter of the world's prison population
[01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.000]  and spends $63 billion plus on imprisoning people.
[01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:44.000]  We are long overdue for lowering those numbers and freeing political prisoners.
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[01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:19.000]  On your HUD-1 settlement statement, it lists a bunch of fees they charged you at closing.
[01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:27.000]  Question, did the trustee, when he presented you with the HUD-1 settlement statement,
[01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:33.000]  provide documentation to show that all of the fees that were charged
[01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:39.000]  were not otherwise forbidden to be put on the HUD-1 as a matter of law?
[01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:49.000]  The HUD-1 Settlement Procedures Act lists what can be put on there and what cannot.
[01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:55.000]  Certain costs are considered part of the cost of doing business,
[01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:59.000]  and they're to be taken out of the interest that you're charged.
[01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:09.000]  Other costs that are not the normal part of doing business can be charged to you at closing.
[01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:17.000]  So they try to charge as much at closing as they can so that the interest rate can show to be lower
[01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:20.000]  and they can get the same return.
[01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:22.000]  Is that the RODASH friendly?
[01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.000]  That's RODASH.
[01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:34.000]  If at foreclosure you can demonstrate $35 in unauthorized fees,
[01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:38.000]  your right to rescind renews.
[01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:42.000]  It is reinvigorated.
[01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:46.000]  So what we do is we look at all of the fees charged on the HUD-1 settlement statement.
[01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:51.000]  We say, well, we didn't get any documentation on any of them.
[01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:56.000]  So we didn't get anything to show that they weren't otherwise forbidden to be charged by law.
[01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:02.000]  We didn't get anything to show that the services charged for were actually rendered,
[01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:12.000]  that the services were provided by bona fide vendors and not a front company for one of my fiduciaries,
[01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:17.000]  that the services were necessary, that the amounts charged were reasonable,
[01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:21.000]  and that the lender did not take an undisclosed markup on the amounts charged.
[01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:25.000]  That's all out of the State Settlement Procedures Act.
[01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:28.000]  So it isn't doing any of that.
[01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:31.000]  So as far as I'm concerned, these are all fraudulent.
[01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:34.000]  They're all bogus, every one of them.
[01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:42.000]  So we file a claim claiming that all of the amounts charged on the HUD-1 settlement statement were bogus
[01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:47.000]  because there's no documentation showing that they're anything else but bogus.
[01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:53.000]  And I have this huge spreadsheet where I do a calculation.
[01:11:53.000 --> 01:12:03.000]  If you take a spreadsheet that will give you a full layout of all your payments where it shows principal and interest,
[01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:12.000]  take that spreadsheet and take the columns that it develops and copy them three times.
[01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:15.000]  So you have four columns of these.
[01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:25.000]  In the first column, put the amounts, principal, interest from the truth in lending statement.
[01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:31.000]  In the second one, put the principal and interest from the note.
[01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:38.000]  And leave a couple of spaces between them, about four or five columns between them.
[01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:49.000]  And then in the third one, put in the principal and interest from the note.
[01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:55.000]  I generally look at the note in the truth in lending statement and see which one is higher.
[01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:58.000]  Whichever one's higher, I put in there.
[01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:06.000]  And then I subtract the full amount from line 1400 of the HUD-1 settlement statement.
[01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:13.000]  That's the total of all of the fees charged, both charged to the borrower and the lender.
[01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:16.000]  I mean the buyer and the seller.
[01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:18.000]  You've got two columns. I add them together.
[01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:26.000]  Subtract that full amount from the note, from the principal, and run the note.
[01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:31.000]  You run the amortization. You will be surprised.
[01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:37.000]  The first one I did this to was Steve Skidmore.
[01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:40.000]  He was a co-host on the show for a while.
[01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:44.000]  $116,000 note at 6%.
[01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:49.000]  They charged him $12,000 in closing fees.
[01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:52.000]  We ran the note out.
[01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:13.000]  If we took out that $12,000, he would overpay a $116,000 note over the 30-year term in the amount of $50,043 in change.
[01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:17.000]  So you get this really large number.
[01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:24.000]  And then you take this number and you sue them based on this number.
[01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:32.000]  You say that it was the intent of the borrower to defraud me of this much money.
[01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:37.000]  You do not sue them for the amount they actually defrauded you of.
[01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:42.000]  In Steve's case, it was a five-year-old note.
[01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:46.000]  So for five years he's been paying what we allege is these extra payments.
[01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:48.000]  That's not what you sue for.
[01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:57.000]  You sue for the amount they would have defrauded you of had their plan ran to fruition, the 30-year amount.
[01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:02.000]  But you don't sue for that amount, you sue for triple.
[01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:08.000]  So in my first calculation, I get an amount three times the original principal.
[01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:12.000]  I'm sorry, in excess of the original principal.
[01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:17.000]  So now I have a claim against the lender in excess of the original principal.
[01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:21.000]  Now we fire off a rescission.
[01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:29.000]  They got 20 days, they don't get it done in 20 days, then it's over.
[01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:36.000]  And even if they do get it done, they're going to say, you tender, they tender to you, and then you tender to them.
[01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:44.000]  And we're going to claim tender by set-off against the claim we already have against you.
[01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:47.000]  Now you've got something to negotiate with.
[01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:49.000]  Does that make sense?
[01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:59.000]  Randy, as far as that rescission letter, I did set up my to be mailed out next week, so I hope.
[01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:07.000]  Did you say that when you filed that rescission after the rescission, then you submitted those other documents?
[01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:08.000]  No.
[01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:19.000]  In this rescission, I put the amounts in the documents saying, you know, in order to rescind after foreclosure,
[01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:24.000]  you have to show $35 unauthorized charges.
[01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:30.000]  I put the amounts from the HUD-1 in there saying, this is what they overcharged me in this amount,
[01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:33.000]  and this is what they intended to overcharge me over the life of the note.
[01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:38.000]  So I'm saying, you know, this is what we're going to have a fight about, guys.
[01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:43.000]  But you needed to justify the, you need to be able to show the $35 in false fees.
[01:16:43.000 --> 01:16:45.000]  And that's real easy.
[01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:50.000]  They charged you fees that didn't give you anything to verify those fees.
[01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:58.000]  We filed about 500 lawsuits with this calculation in it as a claim against the lender.
[01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:00.000]  And in there was two.
[01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:05.000]  Are you being harassed by debt collectors with phone calls, letters, or even lawsuits?
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[01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:52.000]  That's ruleoflawradio.com.
[01:17:52.000 --> 01:18:01.000]  Or email m-i-c-h-a-e-l-m-i-r-r-a-s at yahoo.com to learn how to stop debt collectors now.
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[01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:10.000]  This is the Logos Lafogos Radio Network.
[01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:28.000]  Okay, we are back.
[01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:32.000]  Randy Kelton with our radio from falling off the cliff.
[01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:35.000]  Deborah wasn't watching me.
[01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:37.000]  That's why I fell off the cliff.
[01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:40.000]  Anyway, road ash.
[01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:43.000]  All you have to do is make the claim.
[01:19:43.000 --> 01:19:46.000]  You don't expect them to give you.
[01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:52.000]  You don't get the property for free unless you've really got ugly stuff and the politics are on your side.
[01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:58.000]  But you bring a real heavy case against them and, you know, give them opportunities to screw up.
[01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:06.000]  And then what we did was send, you know, put a letter on top saying, let's make a deal, make this go away.
[01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:12.000]  And then when they don't respond, like these didn't, I put in there, let's make a deal.
[01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:17.000]  Give me a payoff amount I can live with and we'll make this go away.
[01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:19.000]  We'll sell the property.
[01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:25.000]  We'll clean up this to borrowers credit and sell the property.
[01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:29.000]  Give him some money back so he can purchase another property.
[01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:31.000]  They didn't respond.
[01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:36.000]  They responded with a offer to short sale.
[01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:39.000]  So now we sue.
[01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:44.000]  And we asked the court to order mediation.
[01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:46.000]  This is about politics.
[01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:51.000]  The court does not want to sit through another foreclosure hearing.
[01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:55.000]  He sits through foreclosure after foreclosure after foreclosure.
[01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:59.000]  He'd rather be out playing golf.
[01:20:59.000 --> 01:21:02.000]  So he wants a deal made.
[01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:12.000]  And if you go to the court and say we've attempted to mediate in good faith, the defendant is, the plaintiff is recalcitrant.
[01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:16.000]  We'd like the court to order mediation.
[01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:19.000]  You don't care if they order it or not.
[01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:23.000]  You've stuck it right in the behind of the lawyer.
[01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:35.000]  And you've given the lawyer plausible deniability because what the judge is very likely to do, he's not likely to order mediation,
[01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:41.000]  but he will strongly recommend mediation.
[01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:45.000]  When he strongly recommends something to you, you need to take that or not.
[01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:58.000]  But when he strongly recommends something to a lawyer, that means you get this case off my docket or I'm going to kick you behind.
[01:21:58.000 --> 01:21:59.000]  Yes.
[01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:02.000]  In the end, it's not about law, it's all about politics.
[01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:08.000]  And if we figure out where the politics is, we can get them to come to the table.
[01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:16.000]  Brandy, if I get to mail out my rescission letter next week, I can always send the counterclaim one or two weeks after that.
[01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:23.000]  Well, if you mail out the rescission letter and don't make any noise, just send it.
[01:22:23.000 --> 01:22:25.000]  He already had that.
[01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:27.000]  I already got the template.
[01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:28.000]  Okay.
[01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:36.000]  Send that to him and don't make any noise and count down your 20 days.
[01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:41.000]  And then I suggest you count down another 10 days after.
[01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:50.000]  Don't jump on them instantly because if they get some action within 25 or 30 days,
[01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:57.000]  the court is not going to cut their throat for missing a deadline.
[01:22:57.000 --> 01:22:59.000]  They're real reluctant to do that.
[01:22:59.000 --> 01:23:10.000]  So you wait an extra 10 or 15 days so that, you know, we waited 30 days and then they gave us a response that wasn't,
[01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:17.000]  they gave us a response as if we had filed a qualified written request.
[01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:23.000]  So now we have a response and that indicates this is how they intended to respond.
[01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:27.000]  Now we can go back and go after them.
[01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:37.000]  So wait till these 15 days extra or until they send you a response that is non-responsive.
[01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:42.000]  They either have to tender, and that's what the Jasminowski case said.
[01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:47.000]  It's a Minnesota case, but the U.S. Supreme ruled unanimously.
[01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:51.000]  Bank has to tender first.
[01:23:51.000 --> 01:24:01.000]  So they either have to tender or file an opposition to rescission within that 20 days.
[01:24:01.000 --> 01:24:06.000]  And it's new enough they don't seem to really know how to handle it yet.
[01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:09.000]  That's what it looks like with Wells Fargo.
[01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:15.000]  They're doing things the way they've always done things, and they haven't taken it into account.
[01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:18.000]  The Jasminowski was a big deal.
[01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:20.000]  Go ahead.
[01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:29.000]  Do you have any recommendation to do alongside with all this at the federal consumer protection level?
[01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:38.000]  It's really hard to make a claim under the federal consumer protection law
[01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:46.000]  because the legislature, what they did was a lot of song and dance and sell shirt down your pants.
[01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:53.000]  They passed all of these consumer protection laws to protect the public from these dirty rotten bankers.
[01:24:53.000 --> 01:24:59.000]  But the dirty rotten bankers are the ones that were filling their reelection campaigns.
[01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:03.000]  So they did a song and dance about passing the consumer protection laws,
[01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:12.000]  but then they set the time limits for exercising the remedies included in the consumer protection laws
[01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:18.000]  so short as to make consumer protection laws ineffective.
[01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:20.000]  Problem.
[01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:31.000]  That annoying Covenant 15 where both parties agree to abide by all law.
[01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:35.000]  What that gives you is a separate remedy.
[01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:40.000]  You can claim a violation of the consumer protection law,
[01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:52.000]  but claim the remedy in breach of contract, not the remedy that the legislature wrote into the law.
[01:25:52.000 --> 01:25:58.000]  There is no statute of limitations on breach of contract.
[01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:01.000]  Does that make sense?
[01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:02.000]  Yes, it does.
[01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:05.000]  One last question, Randy.
[01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:16.000]  I've been reading in the state of Florida there has been some legal counsels that have been getting positive response
[01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:30.000]  by offering or negotiating with the bank based on a bona fide offer of full payment.
[01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:35.000]  Okay, I have a friend in New York and this is what he's doing.
[01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:47.000]  He sends them a bona fide offer to Tender with a thousand dollar earnest money check.
[01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:53.000]  Will the true holder step forth?
[01:26:53.000 --> 01:27:03.000]  If the true holder steps forth and proves up a full uninterrupted chain of holders at us,
[01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:06.000]  we will pay off the full amount.
[01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:09.000]  When they offer to pay off the full amount,
[01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:15.000]  it's on the condition that the true and proper holder step forward.
[01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:17.000]  They never step forward.
[01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:25.000]  I think of the original note in all other documents that proves transaction of ownership.
[01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:41.000]  Yes, the one thing that the lender does not want to produce is that you have a debt collector.
[01:27:41.000 --> 01:27:46.000]  We talked about this on the show.
[01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:51.000]  Jeff Sedgwick has brought this up and went through this pretty extensively,
[01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:57.000]  that the debt collector buys evidence of a debt.
[01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:04.000]  He buys a spreadsheet that says they're a debt, but he never gets all of the documentation.
[01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:07.000]  The creditor has all the documentation.
[01:28:07.000 --> 01:28:12.000]  All they sell is a spreadsheet with evidence of debt on it.
[01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:19.000]  That's why when you send a debt validation letter, the servicer who is the debt collector,
[01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:25.000]  the debt buyer, will send you what information he has.
[01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:28.000]  He doesn't have any more.
[01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:35.000]  In order to be able to establish his position, he's going to have to have all that other information.
[01:28:35.000 --> 01:28:43.000]  It sounds like in your case, they asked the court for permission to destroy all those records.
[01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:48.000]  Now they can't prove it out.
[01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:55.000]  This would be good grounds for a motion to dismiss.
[01:28:55.000 --> 01:29:01.000]  Would I have to get some sort of affidavit from these trustees that they actually do not hold
[01:29:01.000 --> 01:29:05.000]  documents that have a tendency of appearing?
[01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:09.000]  You have enough.
[01:29:09.000 --> 01:29:11.000]  No, you don't have to have an affidavit from the trustees.
[01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:19.000]  The trustee is immune from suit, so I'll give you the action in good faith.
[01:29:19.000 --> 01:29:25.000]  The trustee is a good one to do discovery on.
[01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:34.000]  You request from the trustee the full amount of default.
[01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:39.000]  You want to see his calculations, how he got to that.
[01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:41.000]  Hang on, about to go to break.
[01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:47.000]  We have our radio call in number 512-646-1984.
[01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:49.000]  We've got two more segments.
[01:29:49.000 --> 01:29:52.000]  Ralph, we'll try to get to you in the next segment.
[01:29:52.000 --> 01:30:05.000]  We'll be right back.
[01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:07.000]  Mind reading vehicles?
[01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:12.000]  Imagine if your car decided when to apply the brakes based on your thoughts alone.
[01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:18.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll be back to tell you about braking at the speed of thought next.
[01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:20.000]  Privacy is under attack.
[01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:23.000]  When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:28.000]  And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:30.000]  So protect your rights.
[01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:34.000]  Say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:36.000]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
[01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:43.000]  This message is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing.
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[01:30:53.000 --> 01:30:55.000]  Plus, they have no speed limit on the Autobahn.
[01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:59.000]  But when they start developing cars that read minds, they've gone too far.
[01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:03.000]  To test cars that apply the brakes when the driver thinks of stopping,
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[01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:19.000]  Dog is showing, guys, but no thanks.
[01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:23.000]  If I'm going to drive, I don't need my car to second-guess me.
[01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:31.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[01:31:31.000 --> 01:31:37.000]  This is Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11.
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[01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:28.000]  Okay, we are back.
[01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:31.000]  Randy Kelton, Debbie Stevens, Real Raw Radio.
[01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:35.000]  And we're talking to Chris in California.
[01:33:35.000 --> 01:33:36.000]  California.
[01:33:36.000 --> 01:33:39.000]  Chris in Florida.
[01:33:39.000 --> 01:33:42.000]  Okay, Chris.
[01:33:42.000 --> 01:33:44.000]  So where are we?
[01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:49.000]  Basically on that bona fide, Randy, offer.
[01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:56.000]  What will be the documents, as you see, mostly necessary, besides the original note?
[01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:01.000]  What, transactions pertaining to all payments?
[01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:08.000]  A complete chain of holder status.
[01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:09.000]  Have you looked?
[01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:11.000]  Okay, I take it you've done a lot of research.
[01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:25.000]  What does Florida law say about the ability of a claimant to enforce a claim against real property
[01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:32.000]  as concerns filing the claim in the public record?
[01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:34.000]  Let me explain why I ask that question.
[01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:42.000]  Texas law says under 13.001 Texas Property Code, any claim against real property
[01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:50.000]  not properly acknowledged or proven and filed in the public record is void as to the holder.
[01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:57.000]  So I look at the record and say, I don't care what you claim to hold.
[01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:04.000]  If I can't walk down the documents in the public record and show that the original lender
[01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:10.000]  made a transfer to some other party while the original lender was still in business
[01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:17.000]  and that second party made a transfer to a third party while the second party was still in business
[01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:24.000]  and ultimately a transfer to the claimant, then I don't care what you've got.
[01:35:24.000 --> 01:35:27.000]  You can use it for toilet paper.
[01:35:27.000 --> 01:35:35.000]  I suspect that Florida has a similar statutory filing requirement.
[01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:42.000]  Not that it requires you to file, but it makes it so that you can't make the claim if you don't.
[01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:43.000]  Are you familiar with what...
[01:35:43.000 --> 01:35:46.000]  I do have that statute saved somewhere.
[01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:48.000]  Say that again.
[01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:53.000]  Yeah, I do have that statute saved somewhere, but I cannot remember.
[01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:55.000]  Is that essentially what it says?
[01:35:55.000 --> 01:35:57.000]  Simulate to what you just said.
[01:35:57.000 --> 01:35:59.000]  Yes, it is.
[01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:06.000]  In order for the county recorder's office to be of any value, you have to have that requirement.
[01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:16.000]  So your real issue is show me by the public record how you have a claim.
[01:36:16.000 --> 01:36:27.000]  If it's not in the public record, you may have a claim, I don't care what you have, but it's not enforceable.
[01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:33.000]  You've got to ask the right question to get the right answer.
[01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:34.000]  Yes, I noticed that.
[01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:38.000]  Randy, one last thing.
[01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:44.000]  If you had the opportunity to open the link that I sent you or if you want me to send you the actual PDF,
[01:36:44.000 --> 01:36:51.000]  you would be ready to have a lot of fun because once you see the actual signatures that I was talking about...
[01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:54.000]  Yes, Lesboa.
[01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:56.000]  Same impression.
[01:36:56.000 --> 01:36:57.000]  Yes, sir.
[01:36:57.000 --> 01:36:58.000]  I see two...
[01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:01.000]  Oh, that's your signature, Lesboa.
[01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:09.000]  And then I see an all-star mortgage company, Stephen Curley or something.
[01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:12.000]  Okay.
[01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:17.000]  I only have one example.
[01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:25.000]  I see two that are clearly the same signature, three that's the same signature, these are the same guy.
[01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:32.000]  Okay, last one.
[01:37:32.000 --> 01:37:35.000]  You tell me those three signatures are the same.
[01:37:35.000 --> 01:37:38.000]  Yes, they're all the same.
[01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:40.000]  Okay.
[01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:48.000]  As far as you can tell, I don't have enough on the last one where it looks like an E and then a big loop.
[01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:59.000]  The other one is threaded, but these two with the last three signatures...
[01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:01.000]  I don't even have to go to the last page.
[01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:05.000]  Go to the last page, Randy, to see what I'm trying to explain.
[01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:14.000]  There's two examples of a signature that they don't match.
[01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:19.000]  It looks like two people did sign these documents.
[01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:20.000]  That's correct.
[01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:22.000]  Stephen Bubbly...
[01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:28.000]  Because I do the full comparison.
[01:38:28.000 --> 01:38:37.000]  There are two, Steve Bubbly, signatures.
[01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:41.000]  The second one is clearly...
[01:38:41.000 --> 01:38:42.000]  It's not clearly.
[01:38:42.000 --> 01:38:44.000]  I don't have enough.
[01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:53.000]  The beginning loop on every signature starts at a point, moves to the left and circles back.
[01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:59.000]  One of them starts at a point and doesn't make a hook, it just lifts up and circles back.
[01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:06.000]  All of the lines move smoothly, and the loops...
[01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:11.000]  There's a large loop in each one that...
[01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:14.000]  This looks like the same signature.
[01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:16.000]  These all look like the same.
[01:39:16.000 --> 01:39:20.000]  Are you on page six and on?
[01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:23.000]  All the way down.
[01:39:23.000 --> 01:39:28.000]  Yeah, if you go to page six, from page six all the way to page ten...
[01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:29.000]  Yeah.
[01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:31.000]  I'm going to tell you...
[01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:34.000]  These are the same hand.
[01:39:34.000 --> 01:39:35.000]  Okay.
[01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:38.000]  Yeah, for seven years I never had a signature that looked like that.
[01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:43.000]  That big loop that he makes, it's slightly different.
[01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:44.000]  It's questionable.
[01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:49.000]  The second signature I don't have quite enough to work with because I only got two letters.
[01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:52.000]  The second signature are all exactly the same hand.
[01:39:52.000 --> 01:39:54.000]  It may be the exact same signature.
[01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:56.000]  That's the signature I'm questioning.
[01:39:56.000 --> 01:40:02.000]  Randy, the signature that you said you don't have enough information, that's the one I'm questioning.
[01:40:02.000 --> 01:40:05.000]  That's the one from the assignment.
[01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:06.000]  You understand?
[01:40:06.000 --> 01:40:07.000]  Yes.
[01:40:07.000 --> 01:40:09.000]  The other two, they are the same people.
[01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:10.000]  Okay.
[01:40:10.000 --> 01:40:11.000]  Hold on.
[01:40:11.000 --> 01:40:12.000]  They are not the same.
[01:40:12.000 --> 01:40:13.000]  That is the one.
[01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:14.000]  Okay.
[01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:15.000]  I found it.
[01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:17.000]  We have two signatures.
[01:40:17.000 --> 01:40:19.000]  These are people who can't see it.
[01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:23.000]  One of them starts out with what looks like a letter and then a threaded line.
[01:40:23.000 --> 01:40:27.000]  A threaded line where you don't really make the characters.
[01:40:27.000 --> 01:40:29.000]  This line just moves up and down a little bit.
[01:40:29.000 --> 01:40:33.000]  That's usually done by people who are writing fast and who are intelligent and they don't
[01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:40.000]  care about getting the correct construction.
[01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:44.000]  Then at the end there's this big loop.
[01:40:44.000 --> 01:40:47.000]  One has a big loop that's flat.
[01:40:47.000 --> 01:40:52.000]  The other one has a big loop and the line comes to the bottom of the loop and runs to
[01:40:52.000 --> 01:40:53.000]  the end.
[01:40:53.000 --> 01:40:59.000]  If you look at the end of that loop on every one of them, it tips up just a little bit.
[01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:04.000]  Some of them tip up before it gets to the end, but there's a hook in the end of it.
[01:41:04.000 --> 01:41:09.000]  The other signature has the big loop and the line goes evenly down and doesn't have that
[01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:10.000]  little hoop.
[01:41:10.000 --> 01:41:13.000]  That is a tick.
[01:41:13.000 --> 01:41:17.000]  That's not something that someone can do on purpose.
[01:41:17.000 --> 01:41:20.000]  That's a physical tick.
[01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:27.000]  As I look at the formations, I see other ticks.
[01:41:27.000 --> 01:41:29.000]  This guy's on drugs.
[01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:31.000]  He's on some kind of medication.
[01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:35.000]  It makes these kinds of ticks.
[01:41:35.000 --> 01:41:38.000]  The second one doesn't have any of those ticks.
[01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:45.000]  These are the kind of things that are almost impossible for a forger to forge because they
[01:41:45.000 --> 01:41:48.000]  don't even know how to see them for the most part.
[01:41:48.000 --> 01:41:51.000]  I see three signatures here.
[01:41:51.000 --> 01:41:54.000]  I see another one that's absolutely not the same hand.
[01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:59.000]  Only one that's the one I'm in question, which is the one, the E with the loop.
[01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:01.000]  The E with the loop is the only one in question.
[01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:07.000]  All the other ones, I consider them original because they look so dramatic.
[01:42:07.000 --> 01:42:10.000]  The E is the one.
[01:42:10.000 --> 01:42:13.000]  I've got three different hands here.
[01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:14.000]  Great.
[01:42:14.000 --> 01:42:16.000]  This is great.
[01:42:16.000 --> 01:42:18.000]  I see three hands.
[01:42:18.000 --> 01:42:21.000]  I see the same person.
[01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:23.000]  I see absolutely two hands.
[01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:27.000]  No, one of these is a third hand.
[01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:31.000]  One is absolutely a third hand.
[01:42:31.000 --> 01:42:37.000]  Even if there are two hands, as far as the E goes, you see no pattern for what, seven
[01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:41.000]  years of anything that is signed similar to that.
[01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:45.000]  That's the one that's in question.
[01:42:45.000 --> 01:42:49.000]  Everything else, I just got it from probably correct.
[01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:50.000]  Okay.
[01:42:50.000 --> 01:42:51.000]  You've got a good claim here.
[01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:54.000]  These are different enough.
[01:42:54.000 --> 01:43:01.000]  There is one, you have two very distinctive signatures that are not the same and that
[01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:07.000]  E is somebody else signed that.
[01:43:07.000 --> 01:43:08.000]  Okay.
[01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:09.000]  There you go.
[01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:10.000]  Okay.
[01:43:10.000 --> 01:43:11.000]  That looks good.
[01:43:11.000 --> 01:43:12.000]  That looks good.
[01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:13.000]  I agree with you.
[01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:16.000]  That's enough to make the claim.
[01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:17.000]  Okay.
[01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:18.000]  I really need to move on.
[01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:20.000]  If you'd like, we could talk again tomorrow.
[01:43:20.000 --> 01:43:25.000]  I have a four hour show to take a lot more time, but I've got Ralph here and I've only
[01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:28.000]  got about a segment and a half.
[01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:30.000]  Thank you, Randy.
[01:43:30.000 --> 01:43:31.000]  Okay.
[01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:32.000]  Thank you, Chris.
[01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:33.000]  Okay.
[01:43:33.000 --> 01:43:34.000]  Hello, Ralph.
[01:43:34.000 --> 01:43:37.000]  What do you have for us today?
[01:43:37.000 --> 01:43:38.000]  Hold on.
[01:43:38.000 --> 01:43:39.000]  Hold on.
[01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:40.000]  Hold on, Ralph.
[01:43:40.000 --> 01:43:41.000]  I'm sorry.
[01:43:41.000 --> 01:43:42.000]  We're about to go to break.
[01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:45.000]  We'll pick you up on the other side.
[01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:48.000]  This is Randy Kelton with Radio.
[01:43:48.000 --> 01:43:54.000]  We'll be right back.
[01:43:54.000 --> 01:44:04.000]  You feel tired when talking about important topics like money and politics?
[01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:05.000]  Sorry.
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[01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:09.000]  What?
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[01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:23.000]  Hello. Oh, man. He's in jail. He got busted, man. Oh, man, I'm broke, man.
[01:46:23.000 --> 01:46:32.000]  Some things in this world I will never understand. Some things I realize foolish.
[01:46:32.000 --> 01:46:40.000]  Somebody's gonna police that policeman. Somebody's gonna police the bully.
[01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:46.000]  There's always a room at the top of the hill.
[01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:51.000]  Okay, we are back, Randy Kelton, Rule of Law Radio, and we're going to Ralph in Texas.
[01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:56.000]  Sorry, Ralph, that took longer than I expected. What do you have for us today?
[01:46:56.000 --> 01:47:02.000]  That's okay. What happens? Well, I'd like to get your opinion on something.
[01:47:02.000 --> 01:47:03.000]  Okay.
[01:47:03.000 --> 01:47:07.000]  Hello? My phone was doing something there.
[01:47:07.000 --> 01:47:13.000]  Okay, time to get a cruiser recording from a traffic stop.
[01:47:13.000 --> 01:47:18.000]  And the governmental body has said that an investigation is going on,
[01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:23.000]  then the charges were dropped, and they're saying that they don't have to give it to me
[01:47:23.000 --> 01:47:28.000]  because the charges were dropped. Are you familiar with any of that?
[01:47:28.000 --> 01:47:36.000]  Wait a minute, wait a minute. The investigation, you said it, what was it?
[01:47:36.000 --> 01:47:40.000]  The cruiser recording. They're saying the governmental body says they do not have to give me
[01:47:40.000 --> 01:47:44.000]  the cruiser recording because the investigation is going on.
[01:47:44.000 --> 01:47:51.000]  Well, I did another public information request after the case was dropped.
[01:47:51.000 --> 01:47:55.000]  And so there's no charges against me. Now they're saying that they don't have to give me
[01:47:55.000 --> 01:48:07.000]  the recording because, I'll read it right here, it says, because it did not result in conviction
[01:48:07.000 --> 01:48:11.000]  or deferred adjudication. Now...
[01:48:11.000 --> 01:48:18.000]  I don't know where they come up with that. I've never seen that in law anywhere.
[01:48:18.000 --> 01:48:27.000]  If they made a recording, then it's public.
[01:48:27.000 --> 01:48:35.000]  The public, the open records law is not contingent on whether or not you were prosecuted.
[01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:41.000]  Well, I haven't delved into it. I just, you know, I'm looking at what they're saying,
[01:48:41.000 --> 01:48:45.000]  and I know, I've already done a dozen of these public information requests,
[01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:51.000]  probably more than a dozen, probably 14, but the AG is just completely rubber stamping
[01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:58.000]  whatever the governmental body says. So I'm looking at it from a different angle now.
[01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:03.000]  I did have a court-appointed attorney for a short while, and during that time,
[01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:08.000]  he told me that I had a case against the arresting officer.
[01:49:08.000 --> 01:49:10.000]  I'm assuming he meant a civil case.
[01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:11.000]  Yes.
[01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:15.000]  I also have a criminal case against the arresting officer.
[01:49:15.000 --> 01:49:20.000]  So if the governmental body does not release the information,
[01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:28.000]  and the information is what I need to present to a grand jury to show that a crime was committed,
[01:49:28.000 --> 01:49:34.000]  is the governmental body conspiring to conceal material evidence of a criminal act?
[01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:45.000]  Oh, this is good. When I started the show, I was going to talk about pre-litigation discovery.
[01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:52.000]  Texas has, and when I'm reading the white papers on pre-litigation discovery in Texas,
[01:49:52.000 --> 01:49:56.000]  they call it the Wild West of discovery.
[01:49:56.000 --> 01:50:02.000]  Texas has pre-litigation discovery like nobody else.
[01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:11.000]  So since they're saying this doesn't fall under open records, wonderful.
[01:50:11.000 --> 01:50:16.000]  Read Texas Rules of Civil Procedure 202.
[01:50:16.000 --> 01:50:23.000]  Just do a search on the Internet for pre-litigation discovery Texas.
[01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:32.000]  In Texas, you can do pre-litigation discovery for the purpose of preserving evidence.
[01:50:32.000 --> 01:50:44.000]  Pre-litigation discovery is primarily for the purpose of doing, what do you call it?
[01:50:44.000 --> 01:50:46.000]  I hate it when I lose words.
[01:50:46.000 --> 01:50:50.000]  Where do you question somebody on tape?
[01:50:50.000 --> 01:50:55.000]  Anyway, it's primarily to preserve testimony of someone.
[01:50:55.000 --> 01:50:59.000]  But Texas, depositions, that's the word I was looking for.
[01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:02.000]  It's primarily to do depositions.
[01:51:02.000 --> 01:51:15.000]  But in Texas, you can do pre-litigation discovery to determine if you have a case or not.
[01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:24.000]  And because of that, when you file for pre-litigation discovery under 202, you haven't sued anybody.
[01:51:24.000 --> 01:51:30.000]  So because you haven't sued anybody, they can't remove it to the federal court.
[01:51:30.000 --> 01:51:34.000]  They can't claim protection.
[01:51:34.000 --> 01:51:39.000]  Say you ask for pre-litigation discovery from the officer.
[01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:49.000]  He has no protection because he can claim he's immune from suit, but you didn't sue him.
[01:51:49.000 --> 01:51:52.000]  You don't even know if you're going to sue him.
[01:51:52.000 --> 01:52:01.000]  You need to do this pre-litigation discovery to determine if you have something, a case you can sue him with.
[01:52:01.000 --> 01:52:10.000]  So read 202 and not just the statute, the statute's not really clear.
[01:52:10.000 --> 01:52:15.000]  You will get a lot of white papers.
[01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:21.000]  Lawyers write these white papers, especially lawyers who specialize in these areas.
[01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:27.000]  They write them so that other lawyers who need their specialty will know who to call.
[01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:31.000]  But that's really good information on how to use it.
[01:52:31.000 --> 01:52:36.000]  And I am preparing to really put pre-litigation discovery to work.
[01:52:36.000 --> 01:52:40.000]  And your case is perfect.
[01:52:40.000 --> 01:52:48.000]  Discovery cannot, I'm sorry, the Open Records Act cannot supplant discovery.
[01:52:48.000 --> 01:52:55.000]  If you get into a lawsuit, then the Open Records Act doesn't apply anymore.
[01:52:55.000 --> 01:53:01.000]  And so they've already said that the Open Records Act doesn't apply.
[01:53:01.000 --> 01:53:05.000]  It still does. They lied to you.
[01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:11.000]  But that's okay. They stuck their foot in it.
[01:53:11.000 --> 01:53:16.000]  And this is what I'm finding out more and more as I deal with these people.
[01:53:16.000 --> 01:53:20.000]  Everything they do works in your favor.
[01:53:20.000 --> 01:53:27.000]  They give you what you want, or they don't, and then you get to kick them in the behind.
[01:53:27.000 --> 01:53:41.000]  So I suggest that you prepare pre-litigation discovery and ask to depose the arresting officer.
[01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:45.000]  These guys are going to go bonkers.
[01:53:45.000 --> 01:53:48.000]  And for the most part, they're not going to know how to use it.
[01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:54.000]  Is this a big town, little town?
[01:53:54.000 --> 01:54:01.000]  Like Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin, San Antonio, or is it a smaller municipality?
[01:54:01.000 --> 01:54:04.000]  18,000 population county.
[01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:08.000]  Oh, good. Small municipality.
[01:54:08.000 --> 01:54:14.000]  They don't have really deep pockets.
[01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:19.000]  I'm taking on Lakeside. They got 1,300 people.
[01:54:19.000 --> 01:54:22.000]  They got really shallow pockets.
[01:54:22.000 --> 01:54:26.000]  So when you hit them with pre-litigation discovery,
[01:54:26.000 --> 01:54:35.000]  this municipality has a problem with me because they couldn't afford to hire top-level lawyers.
[01:54:35.000 --> 01:54:39.000]  They hire these chumps who can't make it in the real world.
[01:54:39.000 --> 01:54:42.000]  If they were good lawyers, they'd be out making the big bucks.
[01:54:42.000 --> 01:54:48.000]  But they're not, so they get a job at a municipality making jump change.
[01:54:48.000 --> 01:54:56.000]  And a municipality that size is not going to have very deep pockets.
[01:54:56.000 --> 01:55:00.000]  So very good chance.
[01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:08.000]  You start doing pre-litigation discovery and then send a tort letter to the municipality.
[01:55:08.000 --> 01:55:16.000]  In Texas, you cannot sue a governmental entity without giving them notice
[01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:21.000]  in the form of a tort letter in 60 days to make you whole.
[01:55:21.000 --> 01:55:24.000]  You send the tort letter, they'll always ignore it.
[01:55:24.000 --> 01:55:30.000]  So I suggest you make up a tort letter and claim an outrageous amount.
[01:55:30.000 --> 01:55:33.000]  Send it to them, certified mail.
[01:55:33.000 --> 01:55:35.000]  Now you've covered the notice.
[01:55:35.000 --> 01:55:42.000]  Then follow that with pre-litigation discovery under 202.
[01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:44.000]  That's going to make them crazy.
[01:55:44.000 --> 01:55:52.000]  Very good chance they may come to you and make you an offer you can't refuse.
[01:55:52.000 --> 01:55:57.000]  Well, I'm considering Title 42.
[01:55:57.000 --> 01:56:00.000]  No, I don't do a 42.
[01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:05.000]  Unless you're a lawyer and you've got deep pockets yourself,
[01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:09.000]  you do not want this in the federal court.
[01:56:09.000 --> 01:56:12.000]  The feds will just blow you off.
[01:56:12.000 --> 01:56:18.000]  I'm pretty sure I'm going to go federal because I don't trust the state courts.
[01:56:18.000 --> 01:56:21.000]  I trust the feds even less.
[01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:29.000]  Well, if I go to the state courts, I'm going to be stuck in the same jurisdiction where it happened.
[01:56:29.000 --> 01:56:31.000]  Okay.
[01:56:31.000 --> 01:56:36.000]  Either case, and you may be right because it's a small municipality,
[01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:43.000]  the kind of rule of thumb is sue the state and the fed and the fed and the state.
[01:56:43.000 --> 01:56:52.000]  So pulling them out to the federal court, they're not going to like that.
[01:56:52.000 --> 01:56:59.000]  But even if you have a federal claim, you can do state pre-litigation discovery.
[01:56:59.000 --> 01:57:02.000]  It doesn't affect it.
[01:57:02.000 --> 01:57:05.000]  That's what I was trying to formulate.
[01:57:05.000 --> 01:57:07.000]  Yeah, that question I can do.
[01:57:07.000 --> 01:57:13.000]  I do the discovery anywhere, and then if it leads to a federal lawsuit, then that's fine.
[01:57:13.000 --> 01:57:15.000]  If it leads to a state lawsuit, that's fine too.
[01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:18.000]  Okay, that's what I was thinking, but I didn't know if I could.
[01:57:18.000 --> 01:57:23.000]  Exactly, and pre-litigation discovery cannot be removed to the fed.
[01:57:23.000 --> 01:57:26.000]  They can't do anything with it.
[01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:27.000]  They just have to respond to it.
[01:57:27.000 --> 01:57:31.000]  There's a really jerkin' knot in their behinds.
[01:57:31.000 --> 01:57:39.000]  And I'll have more to say about it in the near future because I'm going to start filing them.
[01:57:39.000 --> 01:57:43.000]  Well, when I first listened to the show tonight, I thought, wow, great, pre-trial litigation,
[01:57:43.000 --> 01:57:50.000]  because that's where I was thinking I would go with this, but I was afraid that if I put in my next public
[01:57:50.000 --> 01:57:54.000]  information request that they're consuming material evidence of a criminal act,
[01:57:54.000 --> 01:57:58.000]  that they would say, oh, well, no, we can't show, you know...
[01:57:58.000 --> 01:58:02.000]  Pre-litigation discovery won't make any difference.
[01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:04.000]  You read up on it.
[01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:06.000]  It is absolutely wonderful.
[01:58:06.000 --> 01:58:11.000]  Texas is the only one that has one that's this extensive.
[01:58:11.000 --> 01:58:13.000]  So we have a real tool here.
[01:58:13.000 --> 01:58:14.000]  We are out of time.
[01:58:14.000 --> 01:58:16.000]  We want to talk more about this.
[01:58:16.000 --> 01:58:18.000]  Well, call back tomorrow.
[01:58:18.000 --> 01:58:19.000]  We've got four hours.
[01:58:19.000 --> 01:58:22.000]  It's something I would like to spend some time on.
[01:58:22.000 --> 01:58:26.000]  This is Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens, the leader of our radio.
[01:58:26.000 --> 01:58:28.000]  Thank you all for listening.
[01:58:28.000 --> 01:58:34.000]  And when you get off tonight, go to our Lovers Radio Network and look at our sponsors,
[01:58:34.000 --> 01:58:40.000]  and especially if you're interested in the legal matters, look at jurisdiction area.
[01:58:40.000 --> 01:58:45.000]  It will give you an understanding of everything we're doing here.
[01:58:45.000 --> 01:58:46.000]  Thank you all for listening.
[01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:47.000]  See you tomorrow night.
[01:58:47.000 --> 01:58:50.000]  Good night.
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