[00:00.000 --> 00:08.000]  This is The Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates, online
[00:08.000 --> 00:09.000]  at TheLibertyBeat.com.
[00:09.000 --> 00:14.200]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Thursday, February 12, 2015.
[00:14.200 --> 00:22.320]  Gold is trading at $1,222, silver at $16.82, and Bitcoin is trading around $218.29.
[00:22.320 --> 00:26.760]  Learn more about Bitcoin with Justice Ranveer's Bitcoinism.Liberty.Me.
[00:26.760 --> 00:29.440]  Thoughts on Bitcoin and the future digital economy.
[00:29.440 --> 00:33.200]  Check out the blog at Bitcoinism.Liberty.Me.
[00:33.200 --> 00:38.280]  This broadcast of The Liberty Beat is sponsored by eFoodsDirect, redefining the way you think
[00:38.280 --> 00:39.760]  about storable food.
[00:39.760 --> 00:43.440]  With civil unrest occurring all across the country, being food secure has never been
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[00:51.560 --> 00:54.080]  security in a time of crisis.
[00:54.080 --> 00:58.760]  In the news, the Associated Press is reporting that President Barack Obama has asked Congress
[00:58.760 --> 01:03.920]  to formally authorize the use of military force against the Islamic State.
[01:03.920 --> 01:09.200]  President Obama offered a draft resolution stating the Islamic State poses a great threat.
[01:09.200 --> 01:13.200]  Obama's three-page resolution calling for military force was obtained by the AP early
[01:13.200 --> 01:14.640]  Wednesday morning.
[01:14.640 --> 01:18.540]  The resolution would limit the war to three years with no limitations on where the U.S.
[01:18.540 --> 01:21.200]  military could chase the apparent terror threat.
[01:21.200 --> 01:25.480]  The language of the bill does not make it clear if ground troops are a possibility.
[01:25.480 --> 01:32.640]  However, it bans enduring offensive combat operations.
[01:32.640 --> 01:37.080]  Controversy continues in the September 11 trial as a former CIA linguist working as
[01:37.080 --> 01:42.000]  a translator for one of the alleged 9-11 planners was revealed to have worked at a secret CIA
[01:42.000 --> 01:43.000]  prison.
[01:43.000 --> 01:46.720]  Defense lawyers for the accused have asked the judge to hold off on a planned pretrial
[01:46.720 --> 01:51.680]  hearing and to perform an investigation and background checks on staff.
[01:51.680 --> 01:56.880]  Defense attorney Cheryl Borman said the incident decimated any trust on the defense team.
[01:56.880 --> 02:01.840]  Judge Army Colonel James Pohl will question the prosecution about why the former CIA linguist
[02:01.840 --> 02:03.920]  was working for the defense team.
[02:03.920 --> 02:07.920]  The accused said they recognized the man from their years in secret prisons.
[02:07.920 --> 02:12.300]  The trial has been plagued with accusations of spying on the defense team and infiltration
[02:12.300 --> 02:13.300]  by the government.
[02:13.300 --> 02:17.840]  The Liberty Beat is brought to you by Coinarch, offering innovative trading solutions for
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[02:46.640 --> 02:50.640]  This is the Liberty Beat for Thursday, February 12, 2015.
[02:50.640 --> 02:52.920]  Check out the website at theLibertyBeat.com
[03:20.640 --> 03:35.920]  for information or buy their products at Brave New Books.
[03:35.920 --> 04:03.440]  Okay, howdy, howdy, the Bad Boys are back with Andy Kelton, Debra Stevens, and Bad Goyles.
[04:03.440 --> 04:13.520]  On this Thursday, February the 12th, 2015, and we're going to have the phones open all
[04:13.520 --> 04:18.280]  night, so we'll take your calls anytime.
[04:18.280 --> 04:22.400]  I'm going to start out talking about the fundraiser.
[04:22.400 --> 04:29.720]  We've only got a short time left on the fundraiser, and we're still about $1,500 behind, so we
[04:29.720 --> 04:36.360]  would greatly appreciate any help we can get, and go to Logos Radio Network, and if you
[04:36.360 --> 04:45.840]  buy Andy's seminar, you get, Dev, how many is that, 20, or is it 10, 10 in the drawing
[04:45.840 --> 04:56.760]  for the Glock 42 380 pistol and the Magic Mud, and go to Logos Radio Network and look
[04:56.760 --> 05:06.840]  at our sponsors, and if they have anything you could use, if you will patronize our sponsors,
[05:06.840 --> 05:09.920]  it will help us support this radio network.
[05:09.920 --> 05:16.360]  Okay, I'm going to start out talking about mortgage.
[05:16.360 --> 05:25.320]  Now Steve and I do mortgage on Friday, but there's one thing that we haven't done.
[05:25.320 --> 05:33.640]  We talk about all these different things you can do, but we never have given a synopsis,
[05:33.640 --> 05:36.240]  and it turns out there's a whole lot of things we can do.
[05:36.240 --> 05:40.080]  I had someone ask me the other day, well, what do you do?
[05:40.080 --> 05:47.280]  And I didn't know where to start telling him, because there are so many things you can do
[05:47.280 --> 05:50.600]  to gain advantage with your mortgage.
[05:50.600 --> 06:01.360]  Now what we haven't been able to consistently do is win the big fight, and frankly it was
[06:01.360 --> 06:09.560]  a little, I was annoyed with myself that I got caught up in the patriot fight.
[06:09.560 --> 06:16.000]  You know, we're legal reformists and we're fighting for justice, and that thing of fighting
[06:16.000 --> 06:23.640]  with these people got stuck in my head, and it took a long time for me to look around
[06:23.640 --> 06:35.320]  that and ask myself, is there some other way of doing this besides fighting?
[06:35.320 --> 06:44.360]  And once I got past my own limitations so that I could look at that, it turns out there's
[06:44.360 --> 06:51.240]  a lot of options, alternative to fighting with the banks.
[06:51.240 --> 06:58.520]  And I realized the position that the banks are the bad guys, they're the money changers,
[06:58.520 --> 07:04.360]  they're robbing from us, and by gosh, we need to fix that, well, maybe.
[07:04.360 --> 07:10.920]  We need to do what we can, but first we need to take care of business.
[07:10.920 --> 07:16.160]  There have been, we've helped over 600 people file federal lawsuits, and in the end, only
[07:16.160 --> 07:19.000]  a very few of them actually won.
[07:19.000 --> 07:24.880]  Granted, people got to stay in their houses a long time, and since that was the only thing
[07:24.880 --> 07:34.680]  we knew we could do, we considered those wins, but for the most part, what people consider
[07:34.680 --> 07:41.760]  as a win is you get everything for free and they got nothing.
[07:41.760 --> 07:44.920]  And for the most part, that is an unreasonable win.
[07:44.920 --> 07:52.800]  Even if the bank has defrauded you, they haven't defrauded you of the entire amount of mortgage.
[07:52.800 --> 08:01.880]  So we backed up, took a different look, and decided to see what else we can do.
[08:01.880 --> 08:07.640]  I'm just going to quickly run down through these.
[08:07.640 --> 08:09.760]  We haven't talked about this one much.
[08:09.760 --> 08:14.240]  There's the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Lookback Program.
[08:14.240 --> 08:24.440]  If you were foreclosed on between January 1st, 2009, December 31st, 2010, in that two-year
[08:24.440 --> 08:34.920]  period, if you get out all your closing documents and look real close at them, and then look
[08:34.920 --> 08:40.000]  at all of the things the bank did, go to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency
[08:40.000 --> 08:45.880]  and look up their look-back program, they have a printout that lists all of the things
[08:45.880 --> 08:53.680]  you can be paid a penalty for, penalty as opposed to a fine or a fee.
[08:53.680 --> 08:59.320]  For instance, if you were foreclosed on while you were in the military and your property
[08:59.320 --> 09:09.120]  was sold, regardless of any other remedy you may have, if this occurred between January
[09:09.120 --> 09:21.040]  1st, 2009, December 31st, 2010, then you get $15,000 as a penalty from the lender if they
[09:21.040 --> 09:24.360]  can return your house to you.
[09:24.360 --> 09:28.000]  If they can't, it's already been sold off and some other person's bought it in good
[09:28.000 --> 09:32.160]  faith, you get $125,000.
[09:32.160 --> 09:39.400]  It lists a whole bunch of things that you can claim a penalty from them.
[09:39.400 --> 09:40.400]  They have to pay the penalty.
[09:40.400 --> 09:43.360]  If they want to fight it, they can fight it later.
[09:43.360 --> 09:49.280]  They've had the banks hire independent auditors to determine what you should get back.
[09:49.280 --> 09:53.920]  I certainly don't trust the independent auditor, you should do your own audit first, but that's
[09:53.920 --> 09:57.960]  one program to look at, the OCC look-back program.
[09:57.960 --> 10:01.920]  Then there's rescission.
[10:01.920 --> 10:08.680]  Within three days of signing the original note, you can rescind the whole contract out
[10:08.680 --> 10:11.560]  of hand for no reason.
[10:11.560 --> 10:19.000]  Within three years, you can rescind the contract if you find more than $35 false fees charged
[10:19.000 --> 10:25.440]  to closing or charged to you after that.
[10:25.440 --> 10:29.520]  If you're foreclosed on, the right to rescind renews.
[10:29.520 --> 10:36.520]  When they send you a notice of default and intent to foreclose, that renews your right
[10:36.520 --> 10:43.120]  to rescind if you can find an accounting error of over $35.
[10:43.120 --> 10:46.040]  You can do that standing on your head.
[10:46.040 --> 10:53.480]  In being at closing, the lender failed to provide documentation to show that the fees
[10:53.480 --> 10:57.200]  charged on the HUD 1 settlement statement were not otherwise forbidden to be charged
[10:57.200 --> 11:05.640]  by law because the lender may not charge you those amounts that are the normal part of
[11:05.640 --> 11:07.520]  doing business.
[11:07.520 --> 11:12.400]  Those amounts were intended to be taken out of the finance charge, the interest that they
[11:12.400 --> 11:13.400]  charge you.
[11:13.400 --> 11:18.360]  Instead of that, they add them to the front of the note and charge interest on them for
[11:18.360 --> 11:19.360]  30 years.
[11:19.360 --> 11:25.640]  Since they didn't qualify any of the charges by providing documentation to show that they
[11:25.640 --> 11:32.600]  weren't forbidden to be charged or that they were for services actually rendered, that
[11:32.600 --> 11:39.440]  the vendor was a bona fide vendor and not a front company from one of your future years,
[11:39.440 --> 11:44.900]  that the service was necessary, the amounts charged were reasonable, and the lender did
[11:44.900 --> 11:47.480]  not take an undisclosed markup on the amounts charged.
[11:47.480 --> 11:50.920]  This is all out of the Truth in Lending Act.
[11:50.920 --> 11:52.840]  They didn't provide any of that.
[11:52.840 --> 11:56.880]  Your presumption is everything that was charged on the HUD 1 settlement statement on page
[11:56.880 --> 12:02.440]  2 was fraudulent, every bit of it.
[12:02.440 --> 12:08.680]  Take the last number off your HUD 1 settlement statement, line 1400.
[12:08.680 --> 12:13.720]  If there's a column A and a column B, there's a seller column, a buyer column, add them
[12:13.720 --> 12:17.320]  both up because the seller doesn't really pay anything.
[12:17.320 --> 12:22.200]  Anything the seller pays, he adds to the selling principle.
[12:22.200 --> 12:26.040]  You effectively pay it all, so add them both together.
[12:26.040 --> 12:29.040]  Take an amortization of the property.
[12:29.040 --> 12:35.480]  You want one that does an amortization on a spreadsheet.
[12:35.480 --> 12:44.440]  Plug into the first payment, an overpayment of the amount from line 14 of the HUD 1, and
[12:44.440 --> 12:49.560]  then take a look at your, generally, 360 payments.
[12:49.560 --> 12:55.120]  You go all the way to the last payment, and you will find a negative number there.
[12:55.120 --> 12:57.520]  That means you've overpaid the note.
[12:57.520 --> 13:02.520]  You will be surprised how large that negative number is.
[13:02.520 --> 13:11.440]  That's the number you claim is an overpayment.
[13:11.440 --> 13:19.600]  Leveraged buyouts, these are one of the things we've worked out is you can gain leverage
[13:19.600 --> 13:31.060]  against the lender because after 2000, the banks instituted a new whiz-bang scheme to
[13:31.060 --> 13:35.800]  make lots of money, this securitization scheme.
[13:35.800 --> 13:43.240]  They had these long-term notes during the 30 years, and they had these retirement funds
[13:43.240 --> 13:45.640]  that were looking for long-term investment.
[13:45.640 --> 13:48.880]  This appeared to be a perfect marriage.
[13:48.880 --> 13:53.960]  You take the long-term mortgage and convert it into a security, and you sell it to these
[13:53.960 --> 13:55.840]  investment firms.
[13:55.840 --> 14:04.200]  Well, problem, unlike other securities, real property mortgages have reporting requirements
[14:04.200 --> 14:11.120]  that the other kinds of investments do not, and those reporting requirements would have
[14:11.120 --> 14:18.120]  made the scheme not work, so the banks really screwed up the reporting requirements.
[14:18.120 --> 14:25.760]  First place you should look if you're considering doing something with your mortgage is go to
[14:25.760 --> 14:31.480]  the county recorder and do a search on your property.
[14:31.480 --> 14:36.360]  Actually, I'd like to have the clerk do the search.
[14:36.360 --> 14:41.520]  You give them your name, you give them the property address, and ask the clerk to do
[14:41.520 --> 14:46.760]  a search on that property.
[14:46.760 --> 14:56.680]  Get a copy of the actual search, because now you have what the clerk can find and what
[14:56.680 --> 15:05.920]  the law says, 13.001 Texas Property Code, a claim against real property, and this is
[15:05.920 --> 15:13.080]  what the law says in Texas, and most every state has a similar statute, because without
[15:13.080 --> 15:20.640]  it there'd be no purpose for a county recorder, and while the banks will say there is no statutory
[15:20.640 --> 15:26.320]  requirement to make this filing, and that's true in every state except Pennsylvania that
[15:26.320 --> 15:33.320]  I know of, it's absolutely voluntary, but what the code says, any claim against real
[15:33.320 --> 15:42.080]  property, not properly acknowledged or proven, acknowledges, notary, proven as two witnesses,
[15:42.080 --> 15:48.680]  and filed in the public record is void as to the holder, so it doesn't make any difference
[15:48.680 --> 15:51.680]  what you hold.
[15:51.680 --> 16:00.360]  If it's not properly filed in the public record, you can't enforce it, and properly, that means
[16:00.360 --> 16:16.400]  a complete chain of title, because Texas Government Code 51901C states that any document filed
[16:16.400 --> 16:27.280]  in the public record where there is no document giving the filer authority to make filings
[16:27.280 --> 16:35.680]  against the title of real property is presumed to be fraudulent.
[16:35.680 --> 16:41.040]  That makes a requirement that there be a complete chain of title in the record.
[16:41.040 --> 16:46.200]  Hang on, Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens, the rule of law radio, Jeff, I see you there,
[16:46.200 --> 16:49.920]  I'll finish this up quickly on the other side, then I'll go to you.
[16:49.920 --> 16:56.560]  While we're on break, go see our Logos Radio Network and donate to Randy's Beer Fund, we'll
[16:56.560 --> 17:00.680]  be right back.
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[18:49.800 --> 18:59.360]  That's ruleoflawradio.com, or email m-i-c-h-a-e-l-m-i-r-r-a-s at yahoo.com to learn how to stop debt
[18:59.360 --> 19:00.360]  collectors now.
[19:00.360 --> 19:22.840]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, lo-lo-lo-logosradio-network.com.
[19:22.840 --> 19:30.800]  Okay, we are back.
[19:30.800 --> 19:33.760]  Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Rule of Law Radio in New York.
[19:33.760 --> 19:37.760]  When we went out, we were talking about listening to the public record.
[19:37.760 --> 19:44.920]  That is the single most fertile place to find claims against the lender.
[19:44.920 --> 19:53.040]  Now in the end, we are almost always going to lose the suit no matter what it is.
[19:53.040 --> 19:59.920]  The courts are simply bought and paid for, and they are going to rule against us.
[19:59.920 --> 20:07.840]  However, especially if you are pro se, it takes you a little time and annoyance to prepare
[20:07.840 --> 20:13.200]  these documents, and you have to go on the internet and do a little plagiarizing.
[20:13.200 --> 20:18.680]  Like the bank, they have lawyers, and their lawyers are costing them on the average of
[20:18.680 --> 20:22.000]  $600 an hour.
[20:22.000 --> 20:25.360]  In the end, it is all about the money.
[20:25.360 --> 20:28.360]  All the bank cares about is the money.
[20:28.360 --> 20:30.600]  They do not care about winning or losing the lawsuit.
[20:30.600 --> 20:33.200]  They care about the money.
[20:33.200 --> 20:40.680]  When they come to court and win in court, they lose.
[20:40.680 --> 20:48.000]  What we are now using these claims for is as a bargaining tool, as a leverage, to go
[20:48.000 --> 20:55.360]  to the bank and give the bank a reason to come to the table and make a deal we can all
[20:55.360 --> 21:01.040]  live with, and it has been my experience that they all want to make a deal.
[21:01.040 --> 21:07.240]  It is a little hard to get them to deal with the borrower, but if you can get a lawyer
[21:07.240 --> 21:18.440]  to step in between or a quick claim to somebody else that the bank will perceive as a professional,
[21:18.440 --> 21:20.840]  then they will deal with you.
[21:20.840 --> 21:24.560]  You do a calculation.
[21:24.560 --> 21:34.440]  You put in the month of the note, the year of the note, and in an Excel spreadsheet,
[21:34.440 --> 21:37.920]  there is a function called cumulative principal.
[21:37.920 --> 21:44.840]  The cumulative principal function, you put in the month, the date, the interest rate,
[21:44.840 --> 21:50.760]  and the number of payments to date, and that is easy enough to calculate, and it will tell
[21:50.760 --> 21:54.840]  you how far down you have paid the principal.
[21:54.840 --> 22:00.760]  Then take that function and subtract it from the original principal, and that will tell
[22:00.760 --> 22:04.200]  you how much skin the bank has got left in the game.
[22:04.200 --> 22:11.920]  Now if you want to give them a number that their bean counters can base a decision on,
[22:11.920 --> 22:13.480]  that is a good one.
[22:13.480 --> 22:18.880]  This is what you have got left in the property.
[22:18.880 --> 22:22.760]  You have that in the property, but you screwed up the public record.
[22:22.760 --> 22:26.040]  The public record is broken, and you cannot fix it.
[22:26.040 --> 22:29.120]  For the most part, what they mess up in the record is broken.
[22:29.120 --> 22:35.280]  For instance, one of the more common things I see is the mortgage company issues the mortgage,
[22:35.280 --> 22:40.440]  goes out of business, and then MERS comes along and does an assignment of the security
[22:40.440 --> 22:43.360]  instrument from the original lender to somebody else.
[22:43.360 --> 22:46.880]  Whoa, whoa, hold on, guys.
[22:46.880 --> 22:55.320]  The original lender was a person under law, and that person died, and when he died, he
[22:55.320 --> 23:04.680]  hadn't transferred the security instrument, the lien, so the claim died with him.
[23:04.680 --> 23:06.200]  You guys can't fix that.
[23:06.200 --> 23:08.120]  That's broken.
[23:08.120 --> 23:13.520]  Or where they have this second company has then appointed a substitute trustee, well,
[23:13.520 --> 23:16.760]  if that company never got a proper assignment in the first place, the trustee couldn't get
[23:16.760 --> 23:18.360]  a proper assignment.
[23:18.360 --> 23:23.920]  Or they've sold the property, and the trustee who sold the property is not listed anywhere
[23:23.920 --> 23:27.160]  in the records as being appointed substitute trustee.
[23:27.160 --> 23:32.240]  These are things I find all the time, and they're all sudden deaths, and they're all
[23:32.240 --> 23:33.800]  things they can undo.
[23:33.800 --> 23:38.160]  If they've already done the foreclosure, that bell's been rung.
[23:38.160 --> 23:46.040]  They can't unring it, but I can, because I can come to them with a release of claim.
[23:46.040 --> 23:53.520]  They've got this release of claim that'll fix all these title problems you guys created,
[23:53.520 --> 24:00.280]  and I'll sell it to you, making a deal, if you're trying to do a short sale.
[24:00.280 --> 24:05.720]  And the bank is pretending to negotiate for a short sale while they're double tracking
[24:05.720 --> 24:10.680]  running the foreclosure in the background, or they're doing a modification running the
[24:10.680 --> 24:13.180]  foreclosure in the background.
[24:13.180 --> 24:18.480]  They don't have an incentive to do a short sale or to give you a modification.
[24:18.480 --> 24:22.160]  They have an incentive to make it look like they are, because they get paid for that from
[24:22.160 --> 24:24.520]  the HART program.
[24:24.520 --> 24:28.720]  So they make it look like they are, so they can collect that money while they're foreclosing
[24:28.720 --> 24:29.720]  in the background.
[24:29.720 --> 24:35.080]  So go through the public record.
[24:35.080 --> 24:37.120]  Look for gaps in chain of title.
[24:37.120 --> 24:42.640]  If you don't find gaps in chain of title, then you might want to go get a securities
[24:42.640 --> 24:52.120]  audit to see where the property has been transferred to by government records, and then compare
[24:52.120 --> 25:03.040]  what you find in the Security Exchange Commission and other places, you find entities that aren't
[25:03.040 --> 25:06.360]  listed in the public record.
[25:06.360 --> 25:14.280]  So this raises an issue of fact as concerns the security instrument, the contract.
[25:14.280 --> 25:20.480]  When you look at the public record, you look for violations of the contract.
[25:20.480 --> 25:32.120]  Read that deed of trust, especially read Covenant 16, the Governing Law and Severability Clause.
[25:32.120 --> 25:38.760]  If it's an FHA law and it's sometimes 15, sometimes 14, it's right in there, the Governing
[25:38.760 --> 25:47.280]  Law and Severability Clause, that means if something doesn't apply, it can be severed.
[25:47.280 --> 25:54.040]  That one contains an agreement that both parties will abide by all relevant law.
[25:54.040 --> 26:01.880]  So you look for places where the lender has violated relevant law by failing to make a
[26:01.880 --> 26:10.800]  filing giving notice of a change in the principal interest in the note.
[26:10.800 --> 26:13.880]  That's required to be filed in the public record.
[26:13.880 --> 26:21.000]  If it doesn't, people have been going in making the claim under the Truth in Lending Act,
[26:21.000 --> 26:23.480]  the Real Estate Seven Procedures Act.
[26:23.480 --> 26:29.780]  And we're saying, no, no, no, no, don't do that because the government, your Congress
[26:29.780 --> 26:36.760]  put those consumer protection laws in place and then set the statute of limitations for
[26:36.760 --> 26:42.800]  exercising the remedy so short as to make it essentially worthless.
[26:42.800 --> 26:49.160]  So by the time you figure out that they did this wrong, it's too late to exercise the
[26:49.160 --> 26:50.160]  remedy.
[26:50.160 --> 26:59.120]  However, it is a law relating to the contract and you don't need the remedy provided by
[26:59.120 --> 27:00.640]  the legislature.
[27:00.640 --> 27:04.920]  You got your own breach of contract.
[27:04.920 --> 27:10.120]  It's not that you'll win breach of contract, but you'll cost them a lot of money fighting
[27:10.120 --> 27:14.960]  it and we are getting, the courts are beginning to move more in our favor, we're getting more
[27:14.960 --> 27:16.240]  rulings in our favor.
[27:16.240 --> 27:23.120]  Now they're beginning to prosecute these bank officials for filing these fraudulent documents
[27:23.120 --> 27:24.680]  in the record.
[27:24.680 --> 27:28.060]  So you're getting a lot more leverage.
[27:28.060 --> 27:30.680]  Now you go for a short sale.
[27:30.680 --> 27:35.800]  Instead of going to the bank with your hat in your hand, now you get to go to them with
[27:35.800 --> 27:38.320]  your boot up there behind.
[27:38.320 --> 27:42.720]  Now they've got a reason to come to the table.
[27:42.720 --> 27:52.160]  We are, I'm through a second set almost and I don't want to run out of time here.
[27:52.160 --> 27:53.160]  Excuse me.
[27:53.160 --> 27:56.560]  I'm going to take Jeff before we go any further.
[27:56.560 --> 27:57.560]  Hello, Jeff.
[27:57.560 --> 27:59.360]  What do you have for us?
[27:59.360 --> 28:00.840]  Hey, Randy.
[28:00.840 --> 28:05.200]  Thanks for having me on the show.
[28:05.200 --> 28:11.960]  And I finally got my hearing, the hearing that had been postponed.
[28:11.960 --> 28:14.360]  What was the nature of the hearing?
[28:14.360 --> 28:15.360]  Okay.
[28:15.360 --> 28:20.400]  Well, originally I was scheduled to have a motion hearing.
[28:20.400 --> 28:27.480]  And then my trial, this hearing was a hearing for my attorney to withdraw.
[28:27.480 --> 28:30.840]  So I never got to have my motion hearing.
[28:30.840 --> 28:33.440]  You there?
[28:33.440 --> 28:35.520]  Yeah, I'm here.
[28:35.520 --> 28:37.560]  How'd it go?
[28:37.560 --> 28:38.560]  Okay.
[28:38.560 --> 28:40.480]  So that was kind of confusing.
[28:40.480 --> 28:42.240]  I really wasn't expecting that.
[28:42.240 --> 28:48.160]  And I don't have the experience to be able to catch a fastball yet.
[28:48.160 --> 28:50.840]  But it was very, very interesting.
[28:50.840 --> 28:56.720]  If you several months ago, I got arrested when I went to the courthouse without a warrant,
[28:56.720 --> 28:58.320]  without a bond.
[28:58.320 --> 29:04.600]  This is after I won my appeal or the decision and it was remanded back to the court.
[29:04.600 --> 29:10.560]  They arrested me and then my attorney had claimed that they wanted to rewrite my bond.
[29:10.560 --> 29:12.720]  But there was never a court order.
[29:12.720 --> 29:18.320]  So after I got arrested, I sent her an email asking her, why did you have me arrested?
[29:18.320 --> 29:23.800]  And she said, oh, she said that she didn't arrest me, that the judge had arrested me
[29:23.800 --> 29:28.280]  and was going to hold me without bond for three months.
[29:28.280 --> 29:33.320]  Now this is after I've already done my prison and my parole, everything, all my obligations
[29:33.320 --> 29:34.320]  are fulfilled.
[29:34.320 --> 29:35.320]  I won the appeal decision.
[29:35.320 --> 29:36.320]  Are we coming up to break here?
[29:36.320 --> 29:37.320]  Yeah, we're coming up to break.
[29:37.320 --> 29:38.320]  We'll pick this up when we come back.
[29:38.320 --> 29:39.320]  This is Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Rule of Law Radio.
[29:39.320 --> 29:40.320]  Our call is number 512-646-1984.
[29:40.320 --> 29:41.320]  So give us a call.
[29:41.320 --> 29:42.320]  We'll be taking the calls all night.
[29:42.320 --> 30:11.400]  We'll be right back.
[30:11.400 --> 30:40.760]  We'll be right back.
[30:40.760 --> 31:10.120]  We'll be right back.
[31:10.120 --> 31:32.760]  We'll be right back.
[31:32.760 --> 31:52.240]  We'll be right back.
[31:52.240 --> 32:12.600]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[32:12.600 --> 32:33.960]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[32:33.960 --> 32:42.360]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[32:42.360 --> 33:02.920]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[33:02.920 --> 33:30.440]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[33:30.440 --> 33:58.240]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[33:58.240 --> 34:22.800]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[34:22.800 --> 34:36.320]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[34:36.320 --> 34:50.320]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[34:50.320 --> 35:01.720]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[35:01.720 --> 35:11.600]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[35:11.600 --> 35:18.680]  We're going to have to stand and defend our own rights.
[35:18.680 --> 35:24.160]  didn't seem to worry him at all. His, you know, his eyebrows didn't raise or anything.
[35:24.160 --> 35:27.080]  I thought he was going to get furious with her. And I was.
[35:27.080 --> 35:32.920]  He already knew about it because you had told him about it before. The last time you were
[35:32.920 --> 35:33.920]  there.
[35:33.920 --> 35:39.360]  No, I haven't gotten in front of him since July, since I had another.
[35:39.360 --> 35:50.280]  You said that you mentioned it in court and the lawyer kind of had a meltdown.
[35:50.280 --> 35:55.160]  That's what just happened here. It's for the same hearing.
[35:55.160 --> 36:00.600]  Oh, okay. Go ahead. I'll stop interrupting.
[36:00.600 --> 36:07.880]  It hasn't happened before. And yeah, the attorney had a meltdown. She actually wound up attacking
[36:07.880 --> 36:15.280]  him claiming that he had violated the rules. And have I already said that on the show already?
[36:15.280 --> 36:23.320]  I think you either did or you told me in an email, but go ahead and do it again. It was
[36:23.320 --> 36:24.320]  good.
[36:24.320 --> 36:31.880]  Well, am I? Okay. I did tell you in an email. She flips out, comes unraveled and accuses
[36:31.880 --> 36:38.240]  the judge of violating the rules. And he said, well, would you like to read the rule that
[36:38.240 --> 36:43.520]  I'm violating? And she was so stressed out. She couldn't read. So she slapped her head
[36:43.520 --> 36:49.400]  with her hand and said, judge, I just can't read. And by that time, he was kind of looking
[36:49.400 --> 36:58.840]  angrily at her. However, where they got me because she put on such of a show of coming
[36:58.840 --> 37:05.480]  unraveled and I was enjoying it so much because it went on for about 20 minutes. She kept
[37:05.480 --> 37:11.960]  making remarks about me not meeting her, which really was never an issue. And I couldn't
[37:11.960 --> 37:17.000]  quite figure out what was going on because I had raised the issue that she's not getting
[37:17.000 --> 37:24.120]  my paperwork and that she's not showing up for hearings in which they cancel them without
[37:24.120 --> 37:28.280]  me knowing it. But then she says that I'm supposed to go by and meet her. And it kind
[37:28.280 --> 37:34.840]  of doesn't make sense. And it gets by me at the end of the hearing. He does not allow
[37:34.840 --> 37:46.000]  her to withdraw. He forces her to stay with me as a shadow counsel. And so I'm, I'm supposed
[37:46.000 --> 37:54.200]  to, he did, he basically said, Mr. Hill, you can represent yourself if you want. And because
[37:54.200 --> 38:02.840]  she has been sneaking all these continuances in on me, I went ahead and accepted to be
[38:02.840 --> 38:06.280]  my own counsel on.
[38:06.280 --> 38:11.920]  Okay. So the, the trick about that is, is you can change your mind anytime you want
[38:11.920 --> 38:22.520]  to. Oh, good. Okay. Now you can get all your emotions in and then go back to counsel.
[38:22.520 --> 38:29.920]  Well, and I found out, which I did not know this, that all these continuances were initiated
[38:29.920 --> 38:37.600]  by her. And she had been going behind my back and filling out motions and not notifying
[38:37.600 --> 38:44.160]  me. And then after the continuance, I get a copy like 10 days later and she's the one
[38:44.160 --> 38:47.360]  that writes down the request.
[38:47.360 --> 38:55.360]  And she's almost certainly been coached to do that by the court. Okay. So now that I'm
[38:55.360 --> 39:00.480]  my own attorney, if they want to postpone it, which I know they're going to try, they're
[39:00.480 --> 39:07.480]  going to do that. They have to go through me first, right? Yep. Okay. Now you're, you're
[39:07.480 --> 39:17.760]  lead counsel now, but I suggest in the process, you sue your attorney for malpractice. And
[39:17.760 --> 39:26.360]  I plan on doing that and she's stuck. Okay, good. And what she's going to say, she's going
[39:26.360 --> 39:32.240]  to go back and say, well, he sued me now there's conflict of interest. He says, no, it's not
[39:32.240 --> 39:38.280]  fair. She's under contract to give me proper representation. And I expect her to give me
[39:38.280 --> 39:46.680]  proper representation. She doesn't get to run away just because I make her do her job.
[39:46.680 --> 39:51.440]  Get her in here, make her do her job. You want to put her in a position to where the
[39:51.440 --> 40:01.680]  court has to protect her from you. Okay. This is, this is the politics. This is how we win
[40:01.680 --> 40:09.760]  them. Debra was on last week and she talked about guy winning the case just that way.
[40:09.760 --> 40:14.880]  My last case in Austin, that's exactly how I wanted the judge dismissed the case to protect
[40:14.880 --> 40:20.960]  my lawyer from me. So you absolutely don't want this lawyer off the hook. She's gave
[40:20.960 --> 40:28.560]  you all kinds of great stuff. Yeah. So you can take her behind with, and now when she
[40:28.560 --> 40:35.800]  sees the gavel about to fall on her, now she may be motivated to get up and do her job
[40:35.800 --> 40:44.720]  and have plausible deniability when she does it. Okay. It's certainly not going to be what
[40:44.720 --> 40:53.160]  they expect. Make, make sure now that you have all of the documentation in place that
[40:53.160 --> 41:00.200]  you want. And since she's shadow counsel, she has to stay up to date and I'd put her
[41:00.200 --> 41:07.840]  right back on that die. Go back to the court, tell the court, this is way too complex. The
[41:07.840 --> 41:16.200]  last time I got improperly convicted, this time I don't want to make those mistakes.
[41:16.200 --> 41:24.720]  I need learned counsel and she can do this job. She just hasn't wanted to for whatever
[41:24.720 --> 41:33.480]  reason, but she needs to do this job. And you might give her a tort letter telling her
[41:33.480 --> 41:42.360]  that because of her inadequate representation, she has cost you all this time and all these
[41:42.360 --> 41:48.320]  times you come down there and spend all, spend all this time and it was her getting the continuances,
[41:48.320 --> 41:57.200]  you should bill her for you, for your cost and time and sting her good, give her a good
[41:57.200 --> 42:04.600]  billing. She's going to have a fit about that. And that's going, that alone will tell her
[42:04.600 --> 42:10.160]  that you're preparing to sue her and do a malpractice suit to get all this money back.
[42:10.160 --> 42:15.240]  Okay. And she's almost certainly going to go to the judge and tell the judge, you got
[42:15.240 --> 42:27.880]  to help me out here. Okay. So do you have a hearing set for the trial proper? Yes. The
[42:27.880 --> 42:39.600]  hearing is set for April 16th and the trial is set for April 27th. What is the hearing?
[42:39.600 --> 42:47.960]  The hearing hearing. Oh, and all these motions you got. Okay. Yeah. April 16th. Do you don't
[42:47.960 --> 42:56.600]  have anything in between? No. Then you might make sure you've got your motions the way
[42:56.600 --> 43:03.800]  you want them. If you have one that's filed and you don't like the look of it, you can
[43:03.800 --> 43:13.840]  refile it as long as it's timely refiled before the hearing and then decide that this is too
[43:13.840 --> 43:23.760]  complex for you to adjudicate yourself, that you withdraw your agreement to represent yourself.
[43:23.760 --> 43:30.920]  Put that lawyer right back on that dime. The judge, the judge already bailed her out. Now
[43:30.920 --> 43:38.160]  we know what's going to happen is they'll continue the case once I do that. They're
[43:38.160 --> 43:46.120]  likely to do that anyway. Yeah. They do not want this coming to trial. Hang on, Randy
[43:46.120 --> 43:54.200]  Kelton's, Deborah Stevens, ruler of our radio. I call it number 512-646-1984. Give us a call.
[43:54.200 --> 44:04.160]  We'll be taking calls all night. We'll be right back. Hello. My name is Stuart Smith
[44:04.160 --> 44:08.720]  from naturespureorganics.com and I would like to invite you to come by our store at
[44:08.720 --> 44:14.080]  1904 Guadalupe Street, Sweet D here in Austin, Texas. I'm Brave New Books and Chase Payne
[44:14.080 --> 44:18.600]  to see all our fantastic health and wellness products with your very own eyes. Have a look
[44:18.600 --> 44:22.640]  at our Miracle Healing Clay that started our adventure in alternative medicine. Take a
[44:22.640 --> 44:27.480]  peek at some of our other wonderful products, including our Australian Eme oil, lotion candles,
[44:27.480 --> 44:35.280]  olive oil, soaps, and colloidal silver and gold. Call 512-264-4043 or find us online
[44:35.280 --> 44:43.680]  at naturespureorganics.com. That's 512-264-4043, naturespureorganics.com. Don't forget to like
[44:43.680 --> 45:01.160]  us on Facebook for information on events and our products, naturespureorganics.com.
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[46:25.520 --> 46:32.520]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Debra Stephens.
[46:56.520 --> 47:03.520]  And before we go back in, I've been working with my soap. I know once before I tried to
[47:04.360 --> 47:08.440]  give away a bunch of soap and I never did get any addresses. That never did work out
[47:08.440 --> 47:14.760]  so well. So I'm hoping maybe I can do better this time. From now to the end of the fund
[47:14.760 --> 47:21.760]  drive, anybody who donates $25 or more, I'll send them a bar of soap. Okay, this is not
[47:21.760 --> 47:28.760]  regular soap. This soap will not dissolve the oils out of your living tissue. If you
[47:31.360 --> 47:38.360]  use something on your skin that if you get it in your eye, it burns, you should not put
[47:39.360 --> 47:46.360]  it on your skin. Your eyes have nerves real close to the surface, so they're real sensitive.
[47:46.360 --> 47:52.320]  Your skin doesn't. If your skin was as sensitive as your eyes, you wouldn't be able to live
[47:52.320 --> 47:58.920]  in the world because everything would hurt you. The reason some things burn your eyes
[47:58.920 --> 48:05.920]  is because they're damaging the tissue. If you put a soap with any of the caustics, caustic
[48:05.920 --> 48:11.920]  soda, caustic potash, and there are several others, they will dissolve the oil out of
[48:11.920 --> 48:18.680]  your living tissue. That's why it hurts your eyes because it kills a layer of skin. All
[48:18.680 --> 48:25.680]  these women that sell cosmetics sell exfoliants. Well, you can't use an exfoliant on me. There's
[48:27.440 --> 48:33.960]  no dead skin because I don't kill a layer of skin every time I take a bath. And we have
[48:33.960 --> 48:40.960]  people with all of these skin cancers and anomalies. Well, if you force your skin to
[48:40.960 --> 48:47.960]  replace itself constantly, all that replication, you can expect some errors to occur. I'm
[48:48.960 --> 48:55.960]  65 now. I've never had one of these pre-cancerous lesions, anything like that. I have no skin
[48:57.560 --> 49:04.560]  issues. And people look at my skin, they can't believe how good it looks. My skin shines
[49:05.360 --> 49:09.360]  and it's silky smooth to the touch. I give my soap to other people, it has exactly the
[49:09.360 --> 49:16.360]  same effect. So, I've also added colloidal silver to this one. So, it will act as an,
[49:20.360 --> 49:26.600]  well, I can't really say it will act as an antiseptic because I get all these soap guys
[49:26.600 --> 49:33.600]  hopping up and down and accusing me of making false claims. So, go on the internet and do
[49:33.600 --> 49:40.600]  a search for colloidal silver and they'll tell you what magic colloidal silver is. So,
[49:42.160 --> 49:48.320]  anybody who's doing these 25 bucks or more, for every 25 bucks I send you bar soap. And
[49:48.320 --> 49:53.480]  these are big bars of soap. One of these bars of soap will last about three or four months
[49:53.480 --> 50:00.480]  because there's no filler in this. You get the soap a little wet and just touch it with
[50:00.480 --> 50:06.480]  your hand and just run your fingers across it and that's almost enough to shampoo your
[50:06.480 --> 50:13.480]  hair with. I mean, it is, it's pure soap and no filler, no garbage. Anyway, that's my offer.
[50:14.760 --> 50:21.760]  And besides, I'd like a bunch of people that I don't know trying it out and giving me feedback
[50:22.800 --> 50:29.320]  so I can get some testimonials that are not tainted by people knowing me.
[50:29.320 --> 50:36.320]  Well, I'd like to give a testimonial that's tainted by knowing you. I can highly vouch
[50:37.280 --> 50:41.640]  for Randy's Soap and I'm not just saying that because of the fundraiser. I mean, I've been
[50:41.640 --> 50:48.640]  using Randy's Soap for years. Now, I don't use it for myself from my skin because I have
[50:49.560 --> 50:56.560]  some special girly soap for that, but it's fine. I mean, I use it on the sinks for like
[50:56.560 --> 51:03.360]  washing my hands and I use it for dishes and laundry and I get the liquid version before
[51:03.360 --> 51:10.360]  Randy, he makes it as the liquid before he condenses it into a solid for the bars.
[51:11.440 --> 51:15.480]  I prefer the liquid soap because it's less messy than having a bar, but the bars are
[51:15.480 --> 51:22.040]  great too. But at any rate, I can completely and totally vouch for the soap. It's probably
[51:22.040 --> 51:28.960]  the only soap I've ever used that doesn't cause my skin to itch after I've washed my
[51:28.960 --> 51:35.960]  clothes. You'll see a lot of so-called natural soaps and what not environmentally friendly
[51:36.800 --> 51:43.800]  soaps and soaps that are supposedly only made with vegetable oils, et cetera, et cetera,
[51:44.320 --> 51:50.080]  free of dyes and colors and these sorts of things. I've tried pretty much all that stuff.
[51:50.080 --> 51:57.080]  What I've found is that the stuff that is supposedly hypoallergenic that has quote unquote
[51:58.000 --> 52:03.280]  real soap in it, but it just doesn't have the dyes and the perfumes, that stuff is still
[52:03.280 --> 52:07.720]  makes my skin itch. I still don't like it. I don't like the way my clothes feel or smell
[52:07.720 --> 52:14.440]  or anything after. I can't use it. The stuff I've found that's supposedly all natural made
[52:14.440 --> 52:20.320]  from all vegetable oils, et cetera, et cetera, they don't work. I find that they don't really
[52:20.320 --> 52:27.320]  work for me. Those types of soaps don't really get my clothes or my sheets, et cetera, really
[52:27.880 --> 52:34.880]  that clean. I've just had to split the difference, so to speak, and just use very small amounts
[52:34.880 --> 52:41.880]  of the soaps that don't have the dyes and the colors and things like that. But ever
[52:43.880 --> 52:47.880]  since I started using Randy's soap, it's been no problem. It's like a lot of the clothes
[52:47.880 --> 52:52.880]  that I've washed, it's like the colors come back brighter. I'm like, wow, I thought that
[52:52.880 --> 52:58.880]  these colors were so dull that the clothes are just worn out over time or whatever. It's
[52:58.880 --> 53:05.880]  just because there was soap residue in the fabric that just never really rinsed clean.
[53:06.880 --> 53:12.320]  So I've actually been able to recover the quality of a lot of my clothes and sheets
[53:12.320 --> 53:15.880]  and everything through Randy's soap. I know this may sound kind of sensational, but it
[53:15.880 --> 53:22.400]  really is true. I really do vouch for Randy's soap. Besides, I kind of have an extortion
[53:22.400 --> 53:27.400]  thing going on with Randy right now because if he doesn't give me the soap, then I don't
[53:27.400 --> 53:33.720]  let him go on the air. No, I'm just kidding. It's like, keep the soap coming, Randy, or
[53:33.720 --> 53:36.520]  you're fired. I'm just kidding.
[53:36.520 --> 53:42.760]  The thing about this soap is I developed it when I was in the industrial cleaning business,
[53:42.760 --> 53:49.760]  and I developed it to clean really heavy buildup industrial applications. What I did since
[53:49.760 --> 53:56.760]  most of the guys in the business, they bought soap from different manufacturers. Since I
[53:57.520 --> 54:04.520]  manufactured by own, I made absolutely the best soap I could possibly make, and it turned
[54:06.520 --> 54:13.520]  out to be the best builder money can buy in Sudsy Bubbly. I've had soaps with as many
[54:13.520 --> 54:20.520]  as 15 products in it. You put this product in it to give you this advantage. Yeah, but
[54:21.760 --> 54:25.640]  it causes you this problem over here, so you've got to put this other one in to buffer the
[54:25.640 --> 54:31.880]  problem that one caused. Oh, it was a mess. I took the best builder money can buy, and
[54:31.880 --> 54:34.320]  actually I come across it by accident.
[54:34.320 --> 54:38.960]  We only got a few minutes left, Randy. Why don't you tell them about the two? It's only
[54:38.960 --> 54:45.840]  two ingredients really, and also just one other thing. I use it for applications like
[54:45.840 --> 54:49.600]  clothes and laundry and dishes and stuff, but I do wash my hands with it. I'm kind of
[54:49.600 --> 54:55.240]  a clean freak when it comes to washing my hands. I wash my hands a lot. This is the
[54:55.240 --> 55:00.400]  only soap that I can wash my hands with multiple, multiple times a day without it really drying
[55:00.400 --> 55:03.880]  my skin out and crackling my cuticles and stuff like that.
[55:03.880 --> 55:10.880]  Yeah, if you have little cracks on your elbows and cracks on the back of your heel, that's
[55:11.440 --> 55:16.280]  because you've got real sensitive skin, and the soaps with caustics in it are attacking
[55:16.280 --> 55:23.000]  them. She mentioned natural soaps. Years ago, when I was very little, one of my earliest
[55:23.000 --> 55:29.160]  memories is my mother had a cast iron kettle on a tripod out in the yard, and she's got
[55:29.160 --> 55:36.160]  a fire under it. She stirred it. It reminds me of these witches, but what that was is
[55:37.880 --> 55:44.800]  we grew tobacco, and in order to start the seedlings, we would burn down a plant bed.
[55:44.800 --> 55:49.200]  You throw a lot of wood on a pile and burn it down until you've got ashes about four
[55:49.200 --> 55:56.200]  inches thick. The tobacco needed to germinate in a real high potash environment, so we'd
[55:56.200 --> 55:59.280]  stick them in there. When they get up about eight or 10 inches high, you pull them out
[55:59.280 --> 56:04.520]  of there and go set them in the field. Well, then they would take that ash and mother dumped
[56:04.520 --> 56:11.520]  it into this big kettle and boiled it, and she'd dip out the clinkers and pieces of wood
[56:13.560 --> 56:20.560]  left over in carbon and boil it down to a thick liquid. Perfectly natural, but if you
[56:21.160 --> 56:25.600]  stick your finger in that thing, your fingernail is going to bounce off the bottom of that
[56:25.600 --> 56:32.600]  pot right now. That's caustic potash, and it is really, really bad news. Then she would
[56:34.280 --> 56:41.280]  take the hog lard that they saved from the hog killing and put it in there and boil it,
[56:42.240 --> 56:49.240]  and that makes lye soap. I don't want lye soap touching me. That is bad stuff, and it's
[56:49.240 --> 56:56.240]  all natural. Natural doesn't mean anything to me. Right outside my door, I've got a big,
[56:58.600 --> 57:03.120]  beautiful oleander plant. It's as natural as it can be, but if you put one of those leaves
[57:03.120 --> 57:10.120]  in your salad, it'll drop you like a stone. The soap I made has sodium tripolyphosphate.
[57:10.880 --> 57:15.400]  That is the best builder money can buy. A few years ago, there was a big uproar about
[57:15.400 --> 57:20.000]  phosphates. Phosphates were messing up the water treatment plants. You've got to get
[57:20.000 --> 57:26.560]  them out of there. Well, our moron government went on a tirade about getting rid of phosphates,
[57:26.560 --> 57:33.560]  and all of us guys who mixed products said, are you guys crazy? Do you know what's going
[57:33.600 --> 57:38.560]  to happen when you stop using phosphates in your soap? You've got all these other chemicals
[57:38.560 --> 57:43.320]  that's got all kinds of obnoxious problems with them, and you're going to have to use
[57:43.320 --> 57:48.600]  five times as much. You're going to flood the system with this other really horrible
[57:48.600 --> 57:54.840]  garbage, and that is exactly what happened. After about two or three years, all of this
[57:54.840 --> 58:00.440]  stuff about phosphates just stopped. The government never comes back and says, oh, you know, we'll
[58:00.440 --> 58:06.440]  get all that hoopla. We really screwed up. No, they just get real quiet and let it all
[58:06.440 --> 58:13.440]  go away. What's the other ingredient, quickly, Randy? It is a derivative of coconut oil.
[58:14.440 --> 58:19.440]  All right. Well, there you go, folks. Two ingredients. I totally vouch for it. It's
[58:19.440 --> 58:24.440]  great. I love it. Okay. Sorry, Jeff. We'll pick you up on the other side, and I'll actually
[58:24.440 --> 58:30.440]  give you some time when we get back. As long as you donate to Randy's Beer Fund. Okay.
[58:30.440 --> 58:35.960]  So, $25, folks, you get a bar of Randy's soap from now until the end of the fundraiser, and
[58:35.960 --> 58:40.520]  I will post a notice on the website to that effect. Thank you, Randy. One condition. One
[58:40.520 --> 58:45.520]  condition. They have to donate to the Beer Fund. I need feedback. I need feedback. He
[58:45.520 --> 58:52.440]  needs feedback. Feedback. Hang on. We'll be right back. The Bible remains the most popular
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[59:53.440 --> 01:00:05.360]  to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com. This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source
[01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:10.640]  for Liberty news and activist updates, online at thelibertybeat.com. I'm Brian Hagan with
[01:00:10.640 --> 01:00:17.160]  your Liberty Beat for Thursday, February 12, 2015. Gold is trading at $1,222. Silver at
[01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:24.360]  $16.82, and Bitcoin is trading around $218.29. Learn more about Bitcoin with Justice Ranveer's
[01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:29.720]  Bitcoinism.liberty.main. Thoughts on Bitcoin and the future digital economy. Check out
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[01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:59.480]  the Associated Press is reporting that President Barack Obama has asked Congress to formally
[01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:04.560]  authorize the use of military force against the Islamic State. President Obama offered
[01:01:04.560 --> 01:01:10.320]  a draft resolution stating the Islamic State poses a great threat. Obama's three-page resolution
[01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:15.300]  calling for military force was obtained by the AP early Wednesday morning. The resolution
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[01:02:47.800 --> 01:03:10.800]  for Thursday, February 12, 2015. Check out the website at thelibertybeat.com.
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[01:03:45.800 --> 01:04:10.800]  Check out the website at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:22.640]  Okay, we are back. Randy Carlton, Deborah Stevens. We're on our radio and we're talking
[01:04:22.640 --> 01:04:27.240]  to Jeff in Mississippi. Jeff, did you wash your hands today?
[01:04:27.240 --> 01:04:29.800]  I can't remember.
[01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:30.800]  Okay.
[01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:37.280]  Well, you know what? I've washed my hands of one thing, and that is, we can be sure
[01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:41.000]  of that. I've washed my hands of all attorneys.
[01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:49.200]  Well, now, wait a minute. You got to understand the position the lawyer is in. Right now,
[01:04:49.200 --> 01:04:56.960]  the lawyer has been more afraid of the judge than she is of you. I could almost assure
[01:04:56.960 --> 01:05:03.400]  you that the lawyer would like to be able to just go in there and do her job, but she
[01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:10.400]  knows if she just goes in there and does her job and gets this case thrown out, that judge
[01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:14.520]  is going to be embarrassed because he didn't do it right in the first place and you caught
[01:05:14.520 --> 01:05:21.600]  him on it. Then he comes in there and embarrasses the judge. She's going to have a problem.
[01:05:21.600 --> 01:05:27.200]  You're not her only client. She has to think about her business because she's a business
[01:05:27.200 --> 01:05:34.160]  woman first. She's got to make a living, pay back this student loan she's got. I had one
[01:05:34.160 --> 01:05:40.600]  lawyer just got his bar card and he said he has a mortgage payment and doesn't own a house
[01:05:40.600 --> 01:05:50.480]  with $180,000 student loan to pay off. So they got these lawyers in a spot. The best
[01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:55.440]  thing you can do is give your lawyer plausible deniability and she's right in a position
[01:05:55.440 --> 01:06:04.160]  to have it. The judge has got her in a spot where she's stuck between you and the judge
[01:06:04.160 --> 01:06:10.760]  and now you're becoming far more dangerous to her career than the judge is. Now she gets
[01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:15.080]  to go back to the judge and say, judge, you've got to get me out of this mess you got me
[01:06:15.080 --> 01:06:24.520]  into. This is how we beat a couple already. In the end, everything's political. You've
[01:06:24.520 --> 01:06:36.080]  done a good job of cranking up the politics. You beat them. I mean, you put the pressure
[01:06:36.080 --> 01:06:40.640]  on them, give them a hard time. You're just a pro se, but you have put them through the
[01:06:40.640 --> 01:06:48.140]  wringer and they pretty well know that they have tried everything they could to get you
[01:06:48.140 --> 01:06:55.520]  to go away and leave them alone and just give up and you haven't. And it always, it takes
[01:06:55.520 --> 01:07:00.800]  a while, but in the end they tend to turn on each other and that's what you've got
[01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:08.600]  happening now. Judge would not let her off the case. He don't want to let her off the
[01:07:08.600 --> 01:07:17.560]  case because he don't want to screw it anymore. His lawyer buddies, you know, he may be ticked
[01:07:17.560 --> 01:07:22.520]  off at her at the moment for blaming him. So he's going to force her to stay on the
[01:07:22.520 --> 01:07:30.720]  case and punish her, but he's only going to punish her so far. When you really become
[01:07:30.720 --> 01:07:37.760]  dangerous to her career, like when you give her a tort letter and since it was her that
[01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:44.880]  did all these continuances and I have no doubt that the judge got her to do it, but she did
[01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:53.760]  it. So now she's going to go to the judge and say, see what you got me into. And she
[01:07:53.760 --> 01:08:00.800]  is likely to happen just like these others, like mine did, like Deborah's friend did is
[01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:06.560]  they'll just dismiss this thing and go away. You've got the right motion in there to do
[01:08:06.560 --> 01:08:14.240]  it. And that's the one about the grand jury, the indictment.
[01:08:14.240 --> 01:08:20.760]  Absolutely. Yeah. No, there was no transcript for those who don't know. Tell them about
[01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:28.520]  the indictment. Well, I was indicted. My indictment says we, the grand jury of the state of Mississippi.
[01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:32.480]  So a friend of mine said, well, why don't you ask for the transcripts? And I did. And
[01:08:32.480 --> 01:08:38.280]  the clerk of the court responded in writing, there are no transcripts. A court reporter
[01:08:38.280 --> 01:08:45.600]  is not present during the grand jury and therefore no minutes or transcripts are taken. So then
[01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:51.920]  I went to the Mississippi code 13725 says that a court reporter shall record either
[01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:59.160]  electronically or stenographically the proceedings of the grand jury, except when the grand
[01:08:59.160 --> 01:09:10.320]  jury is deliberating. So during all the witnesses and stuff, they do transcribe. I also got
[01:09:10.320 --> 01:09:16.520]  them on another thing. And that is during my last trial, we had found out that a witness
[01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:22.240]  was missing, the key witness. And the judge said, well, I never heard of a witness. And
[01:09:22.240 --> 01:09:29.000]  even the prosecutor said, well, I never heard of this witness from the police. And my attorney
[01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:35.240]  even said, we've never heard of this witness. But on the checklist, the mandatory checklist
[01:09:35.240 --> 01:09:43.040]  for the grand jury, it says that, that they checked off that they have the police report
[01:09:43.040 --> 01:09:50.440]  filed from the witness. And that police report is exactly what the judge, the DA and my attorney
[01:09:50.440 --> 01:09:54.240]  all said that we've never heard of this or seen this. In fact, they had to stop court
[01:09:54.240 --> 01:10:00.520]  to go fish it out, to go find it. Be it on the checklist, it says we've got it. And what
[01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:06.480]  it is, is just a general checklist, you know, police report filed by original complaining
[01:10:06.480 --> 01:10:12.960]  document thing. And then there's just a check by it. So either somebody is really, really
[01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:16.680]  breaking and violating the rules, or they just never had a grand jury. I think they
[01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:25.040]  just forged my indictment. And that's what I'm pushing.
[01:10:25.040 --> 01:10:43.440]  Oh, somebody muted my mic when I wasn't looking. Have you tried to get the grand jurors names?
[01:10:43.440 --> 01:10:47.560]  Yeah, I've actually got the grand jurors names.
[01:10:47.560 --> 01:11:01.320]  Send them a, each one of them a letter and ask them about the indictment. Did you participate
[01:11:01.320 --> 01:11:06.040]  in this indictment? You can tell that, you know, you have questions and you're concerned
[01:11:06.040 --> 01:11:14.120]  that there may actually have never been an indictment. Okay. And ask them about it. And
[01:11:14.120 --> 01:11:24.320]  especially ask the foreman because, Oh, wait, wait, wait. Have you looked at any other indictments
[01:11:24.320 --> 01:11:32.680]  that came down about the same time? No. Go back and ask for the court records for cause
[01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:41.400]  numbers will say 20 numbers before yours and 20 numbers after yours. Okay. And compare
[01:11:41.400 --> 01:11:50.440]  the signatures of the foreman. The main thing you want to look for are signatures that are
[01:11:50.440 --> 01:12:06.680]  exactly the same like a rubber stamp or a cut and pasty. So they're arrogant. You know,
[01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:11.480]  I could take your signature and cut and paste it 50 different ways. All I got to do is grab
[01:12:11.480 --> 01:12:18.560]  the corner of the box and morph it. So you pull the top up, you pull the side down. So
[01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:24.840]  if you superimpose them, they're not exact. I guarantee you, if these guys are cutting
[01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:32.440]  and pasting the foreman's signature, they're exact. Okay. So first you want to, you want
[01:12:32.440 --> 01:12:40.280]  to get those indictments and then did you, Oh, wait, wait. I started saying, I think
[01:12:40.280 --> 01:12:52.040]  we talked about requesting the court reporters a voucher for that day. Yes. And they have
[01:12:52.040 --> 01:13:02.600]  not responded. Oh, yeah. I wrote a certified letter to the clerk and to the comptroller
[01:13:02.600 --> 01:13:09.000]  of currency. Well, you told me which position and I found that position. I wrote it, sent
[01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:18.840]  it certified with a, I even Xerox to the receipt or the certification to prove that what the
[01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:23.280]  same certification on the outside of the envelope is on the inside of the envelope. And I have
[01:13:23.280 --> 01:13:32.160]  not received a response at all. And I wrote respond within 10 days. Have you read the
[01:13:32.160 --> 01:13:40.760]  open records act for Mississippi? Yes. Is it a civil statute or a criminal statute?
[01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:45.680]  I don't remember. It's been six months. Okay. I'm almost going to assure you that it's a
[01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:52.440]  criminal statute. Everyone I've looked at. Yes. And for those that, for whom this is
[01:13:52.440 --> 01:13:59.200]  not clear, if you go file a information request and they don't respond to it in time, they
[01:13:59.200 --> 01:14:04.560]  say, well, you can just sue us. No, that's not what the code says. The code says violation
[01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:11.440]  of this act is a class a misdemeanor official misconduct.
[01:14:11.440 --> 01:14:17.520]  Up to a year in jail. I will look that up as soon as I hang up. And then when I call
[01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:24.120]  you next week, I'll have that written down. Now this kind of goes to my adage. Never ask
[01:14:24.120 --> 01:14:32.280]  a public official to do anything you actually want him to do. Because you never ask a public
[01:14:32.280 --> 01:14:40.240]  official to do anything that the law does not specifically command him to do. That way,
[01:14:40.240 --> 01:14:47.940]  when he doesn't do it, you get to club him good. The little tar baby thing. I go into
[01:14:47.940 --> 01:14:53.200]  public offices and I say, Hey, I got this little tar baby. You want to touch it? I say,
[01:14:53.200 --> 01:14:57.920]  here, go ahead, touch it. And then I'll drag you to the next one in line and get him to
[01:14:57.920 --> 01:15:03.280]  touch it because he's not going to want to prosecute you.
[01:15:03.280 --> 01:15:09.800]  It's just great fun, but it makes them nuts. Now to make things simple, could I just go
[01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:15.140]  to, can I write a letter to one of the grand juror members of my indictment and just ask
[01:15:15.140 --> 01:15:19.960]  him if there was a court reporter present during the proceedings? Well, you want to
[01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:27.160]  find out if there actually were any proceedings or the foreman is the one who had to sign
[01:15:27.160 --> 01:15:37.800]  it. So if there weren't any proceedings, the one who has skin in the game is the one whose
[01:15:37.800 --> 01:15:47.680]  signature is on the document. Yeah. And yeah, you could write it to any grand juror, but
[01:15:47.680 --> 01:15:54.680]  the likelihood that they would remember this particular indictment is very, very slim,
[01:15:54.680 --> 01:16:03.400]  especially this far down the road. Yeah. The foreman, he's got a, he's got a dog in this
[01:16:03.400 --> 01:16:11.200]  hunt and you might tell him that you have reason to believe that your indictment was
[01:16:11.200 --> 01:16:17.960]  actually forged, that it never actually happened. Because if a grand jury had heard the information
[01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:26.760]  that was available, then there's no way they would have indicted. And now you can't find
[01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:32.760]  the transcripts of the grand juror. And whenever you do that, this goes to the other end. Never
[01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:39.960]  make a proactive statement of law out of your own mouth. You say, I've got to go to break
[01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:44.960]  and then you kind of go right. Okay. I'll pick this up when we come back on the other
[01:16:44.960 --> 01:16:51.080]  side. I'll talk about how you make your request in the language of the law. This is Randy
[01:16:51.080 --> 01:16:57.840]  Kelton, Deborah Stevens with our radio. I call it number 512-646-1984. We'll be right
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[01:19:27.080 --> 01:19:45.640]  Okay, we are back. Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens, Wheel of Law Radio. We're talking to Jeff
[01:19:45.640 --> 01:19:51.400]  in Mississippi. And Jeff, we're talking about never make a proactive statement of law out
[01:19:51.400 --> 01:20:01.040]  of your own mouth. So you make up a letter to the foreman and tell the foreman that under
[01:20:01.040 --> 01:20:11.320]  whatever statute, the court reporter is required to make a recording or state that kind of
[01:20:11.320 --> 01:20:18.540]  in the verbiage of the law. And then state that you made a request for the transcript
[01:20:18.540 --> 01:20:24.720]  of that particular hearing. Since the hearing involved you, you had a special interest,
[01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:34.040]  but you were informed that there was no such transcript. Since the recording is specifically
[01:20:34.040 --> 01:20:42.280]  required by statute, you now have reason to believe that there actually was never a hearing
[01:20:42.280 --> 01:20:48.640]  at all. And you have reason to believe that your signature was forged on an indictment
[01:20:48.640 --> 01:21:00.400]  of me. Then ask him the question you want to ask. Now you'll have his attention. And
[01:21:00.400 --> 01:21:05.400]  you know, he's going to be concerned that he's going to be called down to testify as
[01:21:05.400 --> 01:21:15.240]  a witness concerning the, oh, the indictment. You're going to a motion hearing petition
[01:21:15.240 --> 01:21:28.040]  for summons is summoned the grand jury. Oh, hold on here. Okay. Go ahead. Summon the grand
[01:21:28.040 --> 01:21:32.080]  jury because you have reason to believe that the indictment was never happened because
[01:21:32.080 --> 01:21:37.360]  there's no recording. Now they'll claim that that's a different issue and not relevant
[01:21:37.360 --> 01:21:42.760]  for my motion hearing. You don't care what they claim. You're claiming the indictment
[01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:49.640]  is improper because it never, it wasn't properly brought. And you need to summon the grand
[01:21:49.640 --> 01:21:55.040]  jury members to get them to testify as to whether there was an indictment at all. Since
[01:21:55.040 --> 01:22:03.240]  there is no recording, you have reason to believe it didn't happen. Request it anyway.
[01:22:03.240 --> 01:22:11.200]  Let them deny it. One more thing for appeal. They have listed as a witness, the police
[01:22:11.200 --> 01:22:19.560]  officer that testified against me in court. Should I summon him too? Absolutely. Ask him
[01:22:19.560 --> 01:22:25.280]  if he testified because he's kind of stupid. So he, he's not really all that bright. He
[01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:32.480]  may say, no, I never went to a grand jury hearing and was, is he still around? Oh, I'm
[01:22:32.480 --> 01:22:40.000]  sure he is because he's supposed to testify against me at my trial. I mean, he's the main
[01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:48.720]  dude that they brought in against me. Okay. So he may still be around then because policemen,
[01:22:48.720 --> 01:22:54.880]  they float around a lot, especially the losers. Well, he's going to have to be, I mean, cause
[01:22:54.880 --> 01:23:01.160]  that's their whole case is based on him. And you know, if you hammer them enough, that's
[01:23:01.160 --> 01:23:10.880]  a real easy way to make the case go away. Okay. No witness. Oh my goodness. The officer didn't
[01:23:10.880 --> 01:23:21.160]  show up. We want a continuance and they expect you to object. If you do it right, you will
[01:23:21.160 --> 01:23:27.560]  object. You were ordered to be here on this day. That policeman should have been ordered
[01:23:27.560 --> 01:23:32.200]  to be here on this day. I have a right to my hearing today.
[01:23:32.200 --> 01:23:38.440]  Cause we've seen these TV programs where they've got a witness is supposed to be there. That
[01:23:38.440 --> 01:23:45.320]  way they can't get the witness in there. It's sudden death. Then that's because if it was
[01:23:45.320 --> 01:23:51.960]  civil trial, it'd be different, but this is criminal. They don't call you and say, Hey,
[01:23:51.960 --> 01:23:57.200]  would this be a good day for you to show up in court or do you have something else planned?
[01:23:57.200 --> 01:24:05.080]  If it's civil, they do that. But criminal, they say, be here on this day at this time.
[01:24:05.080 --> 01:24:13.400]  That way the judge and the prosecutor can manage their docket. But as a consequence
[01:24:13.400 --> 01:24:19.320]  of that, if they say you be here on this day at this time and you're there, you have a
[01:24:19.320 --> 01:24:29.960]  right to your hearing. And that's a good way to get rid of a case. And if the prosecutor
[01:24:29.960 --> 01:24:37.960]  sees this going south on him, that's how he can get rid of the case and not lose face.
[01:24:37.960 --> 01:24:45.280]  But make sure you summon those grand jury members. If they didn't do the indictment
[01:24:45.280 --> 01:24:54.360]  right and that, even if they do, you know, then if they have the trial again, you're
[01:24:54.360 --> 01:24:59.820]  setting a record for appeal and this is not something they're going to want to go before
[01:24:59.820 --> 01:25:07.600]  court of appeals because what that says, every single indictment that they got according
[01:25:07.600 --> 01:25:19.000]  to this procedure is now in jeopardy. In Houston, we had the crime lab false, got caught falsifying
[01:25:19.000 --> 01:25:33.440]  evidence, and it put thousands of cases in jeopardy. In Dallas, a court appointed counsel
[01:25:33.440 --> 01:25:42.400]  is representing this guy for a drug issue and he asks for the sample of drugs and gets
[01:25:42.400 --> 01:25:54.280]  a private test on it and it's chalk. There was no cocaine in it at all. It was just chalk.
[01:25:54.280 --> 01:26:00.920]  And this was based on an informant and this informant had informed on hundreds of people,
[01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:06.960]  put all the cases in jeopardy or all thrown out, had to redo them all. This is what they're
[01:26:06.960 --> 01:26:14.320]  looking at. No recording of the grand jury hearing when there is a statutory requirement
[01:26:14.320 --> 01:26:23.080]  for recording. They come into the court of appeals and say that, oh my goodness, they
[01:26:23.080 --> 01:26:33.520]  got a problem. And you might look for something like a court of inquiry. This may be somewhat
[01:26:33.520 --> 01:26:39.440]  hard to find in the code. I really like Texas code because they got all this cool stuff
[01:26:39.440 --> 01:26:49.840]  in there. But somewhere in Mississippi law, they have to have a provision for ferreting
[01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:55.320]  out the really corrupt morons.
[01:26:55.320 --> 01:27:03.440]  The smart corrupt guys can hide what they're doing or make it look plausibly deniable.
[01:27:03.440 --> 01:27:08.160]  It's the morons who do the stupid arrogant stuff that gets everybody in trouble. So there
[01:27:08.160 --> 01:27:13.240]  has to be a way to crucify those guys and flush them out. In Texas, it's called a court
[01:27:13.240 --> 01:27:20.880]  of inquiry and it's primarily for examining into public officials. Do you know of anything
[01:27:20.880 --> 01:27:23.360]  in Mississippi of that nature?
[01:27:23.360 --> 01:27:27.440]  No, I don't. I'll start looking.
[01:27:27.440 --> 01:27:37.560]  That one would be a good one to find. And you could use these two terms. The primary
[01:27:37.560 --> 01:27:49.240]  term is predicate acts. You use the term predicate acts. The red flags go up everywhere. Predicate
[01:27:49.240 --> 01:28:01.320]  acts ongoing criminal enterprise. That's what it takes to establish RICO. And RICO scares
[01:28:01.320 --> 01:28:08.680]  everybody. It's in a RICO suit. You get to develop testimony under the rules of civil
[01:28:08.680 --> 01:28:17.320]  procedure that can then be used to prosecute under the criminal code. The rules of criminal
[01:28:17.320 --> 01:28:24.080]  procedure are a lot stricter on what evidence you can develop, like the prohibition against
[01:28:24.080 --> 01:28:31.560]  self-incrimination. That don't happen in civil. So when they're looking at RICO, where they
[01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:37.000]  can develop this testimony under civil and then bring it in under criminal, that scares
[01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:50.560]  them. And if they have actually created bogus indictments, do you really think that kind
[01:28:50.560 --> 01:29:03.600]  of thing would happen? Let me tell you a story. The US attorneys, they all have a rubber stamp
[01:29:03.600 --> 01:29:10.720]  with the foreman's signature on it. What they do is they come in and they get an indictment
[01:29:10.720 --> 01:29:16.920]  over any BS. Just anything they can get an indictment over. That's when they really start
[01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:24.920]  to root their investigation. And then once they get other evidence, then they come back
[01:29:24.920 --> 01:29:32.520]  in for superseding indictments. And the US attorney just stamps those. That's what we
[01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:42.240]  do all over the country. So good chance these guys learned from the feds and all those annoying
[01:29:42.240 --> 01:29:47.280]  indictments were too much pain in the rear. So we were just signing, especially if it's
[01:29:47.280 --> 01:29:52.720]  a little iffy, iffy, we just signed it ourselves. Hang on, Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, we
[01:29:52.720 --> 01:29:58.680]  have our radio or call it number 512-646-1984. We'll be right back.
[01:29:58.680 --> 01:30:04.480]  Have you ever fed your family cornflakes or sent your kid off to school with a juice box?
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[01:30:47.320 --> 01:30:51.400]  Well, it's no secret that too much sugar will expand your waistline. When that sweetener
[01:30:51.400 --> 01:30:55.800]  is in the form of high fructose corn syrup, you put your body at risk for disease. We're
[01:30:55.800 --> 01:31:00.720]  talking high blood pressure, obesity, especially in children, high cholesterol and insulin
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[01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:20.200]  The life you save may be your child's. This is Dr. Catherine Albrecht. More news and information
[01:31:20.200 --> 01:31:33.480]  at CatherineAlbrecht.com. We want to thank all our listeners who contributed
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[01:33:16.800 --> 01:33:31.800]  Thank you very much.
[01:33:46.800 --> 01:34:05.800]  Okay. We are back. Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Wheel of Law Radio. We're talking to Jeff
[01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:14.040]  in Mississippi. This is getting to be way too much fun, Jeff. This part here could get
[01:34:14.040 --> 01:34:23.480]  real interesting. We keep talking about the politics of the case. It looks as though you've
[01:34:23.480 --> 01:34:39.240]  got some serious politics in your favor. When you do your request to the grand jury foreman,
[01:34:39.240 --> 01:34:52.040]  you might copy the request to the judge and ask the judge to consider the request to make
[01:34:52.040 --> 01:35:00.320]  sure it doesn't violate any rules or regulations or anything. I'm not sure. I have to think
[01:35:00.320 --> 01:35:06.280]  about how to do that. We want them, now it'd probably be better if you didn't, just send
[01:35:06.280 --> 01:35:12.640]  it to the foreman. They can't accuse you of tampering with the jury, the grand jury,
[01:35:12.640 --> 01:35:14.960]  because these guys aren't grand jurors anymore.
[01:35:14.960 --> 01:35:24.080]  Well, and the code 99-1-9 says that you cannot ask a grand juror member about any witness
[01:35:24.080 --> 01:35:29.640]  testimony or anything during the proceedings for up to six months.
[01:35:29.640 --> 01:35:41.360]  Oh, that is good. So now you can ask him essentially anything except for the deliberation. Is that
[01:35:41.360 --> 01:35:43.400]  singled out as separate?
[01:35:43.400 --> 01:35:45.800]  What, during deliberation?
[01:35:45.800 --> 01:35:46.800]  Yeah.
[01:35:46.800 --> 01:35:51.360]  Yeah, it only talks about the proceedings, like witness testimony, what happened during
[01:35:51.360 --> 01:35:53.560]  the proceedings. It doesn't say about deliberation.
[01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:59.960]  Okay, because deliberations are probably still secret and always will be, and they probably
[01:35:59.960 --> 01:36:05.400]  always should be. But you get to ask about what you want to ask for. Now they don't have
[01:36:05.400 --> 01:36:10.360]  any grounds for objecting.
[01:36:10.360 --> 01:36:12.480]  Yes.
[01:36:12.480 --> 01:36:21.240]  So this is great. You already have in the motion challenging the validity of the indictment,
[01:36:21.240 --> 01:36:22.240]  don't you?
[01:36:22.240 --> 01:36:30.680]  Yes, I absolutely do. And as far as grand jurors, I know two grand jury members that
[01:36:30.680 --> 01:36:37.640]  served grand jury duty two years after my indictment, my Baptist preacher and the dean
[01:36:37.640 --> 01:36:44.080]  of the college. I didn't tell the Baptist preacher what I was asking. I just said it
[01:36:44.080 --> 01:36:50.120]  kind of as a curious note, hey, when you guys were in the main courtroom during your proceedings
[01:36:50.120 --> 01:36:55.720]  and all the presentations, was there a little lady at a typewriter there chugging away?
[01:36:55.720 --> 01:37:04.320]  And he says, yes, the court reporter. Yes, that was my indictment. Mine was two years
[01:37:04.320 --> 01:37:11.720]  before. But I do have a grand jury members, actually two of them, because the dean of
[01:37:11.720 --> 01:37:17.000]  the college was there saying that, yeah, the court reporters in there chugging away.
[01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:23.440]  So you might want to go to the dean of the college and this Baptist preacher and ask
[01:37:23.440 --> 01:37:28.720]  them if they would be willing to testify to that fact.
[01:37:28.720 --> 01:37:30.760]  Okay.
[01:37:30.760 --> 01:37:36.640]  Both of them is likely to have a very high moral center. The dean of the college is going
[01:37:36.640 --> 01:37:43.120]  to be more political. The Baptist preacher is probably the best one.
[01:37:43.120 --> 01:37:44.120]  Okay.
[01:37:44.120 --> 01:37:48.720]  But, you know, you tell them you want to subpoena them and you'd hope that you could subpoena
[01:37:48.720 --> 01:37:54.240]  them not as a, what do you call it? Hostile witness.
[01:37:54.240 --> 01:37:55.240]  Okay.
[01:37:55.240 --> 01:38:10.040]  And you might get grand juries before grand juries after. Before and after your indictment.
[01:38:10.040 --> 01:38:21.960]  And talk to them and ask them. If the one before says yes, and the one after says yes,
[01:38:21.960 --> 01:38:26.320]  then they almost certainly cheated your indictment.
[01:38:26.320 --> 01:38:29.160]  Yeah. Okay.
[01:38:29.160 --> 01:38:35.040]  And when you go down and start asking these questions, like when you talk to the clerk
[01:38:35.040 --> 01:38:41.680]  and ask for these grand juror names, these folks are going to get excited. And if they
[01:38:41.680 --> 01:38:50.160]  give you some nonsense that they don't keep the names, then you go down and do a calculation
[01:38:50.160 --> 01:39:00.040]  on the cause numbers. You know, like you might ask them about how many felony criminal complaints
[01:39:00.040 --> 01:39:11.480]  or indictments do you have a year? And that gives you a number to work with. So take your
[01:39:11.480 --> 01:39:16.720]  cause number and deduct however many from it and that'll put you, it should put you
[01:39:16.720 --> 01:39:17.720]  about a year back.
[01:39:17.720 --> 01:39:18.720]  Okay.
[01:39:18.720 --> 01:39:23.440]  How long do grand juries sit in Mississippi?
[01:39:23.440 --> 01:39:29.280]  I don't know. I don't know if it's a week or two weeks. I've actually done the paperwork.
[01:39:29.280 --> 01:39:30.280]  I'll have to dig it out.
[01:39:30.280 --> 01:39:34.360]  Yeah. Their whole term, generally in small counties like that is six months.
[01:39:34.360 --> 01:39:39.000]  Oh, okay. You mean their term. I thought you meant-
[01:39:39.000 --> 01:39:41.640]  Do you have the full term?
[01:39:41.640 --> 01:39:44.880]  I don't know. I'll find that out next week.
[01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:51.720]  And then back up to the term before yours and into the term after yours. And if they
[01:39:51.720 --> 01:39:59.680]  don't give you the names, then go in and look at the indictments and get the grand juror's
[01:39:59.680 --> 01:40:00.680]  signature off the indictments.
[01:40:00.680 --> 01:40:01.680]  Okay. I got you.
[01:40:01.680 --> 01:40:08.000]  And it should have his name printed under the signature. Somewhere you can find the
[01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:09.000]  foreman's name.
[01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:15.600]  Okay. I got it. Okay. Well, I will call you next week. I'm done. That's all the questions
[01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:16.600]  I've got.
[01:40:16.600 --> 01:40:23.400]  Now that ought to get pretty interesting. This is where the good, this is where the
[01:40:23.400 --> 01:40:27.960]  fun starts. Now you're going after them. They're not going after you.
[01:40:27.960 --> 01:40:30.240]  No, they're running for me.
[01:40:30.240 --> 01:40:37.200]  Yes. And they're doing everything they can, but it's not working. And now you got the
[01:40:37.200 --> 01:40:42.960]  judge and the lawyer at one another's throats. When you get the sharks to turn on each other,
[01:40:42.960 --> 01:40:44.760]  that's when it starts getting good.
[01:40:44.760 --> 01:40:46.600]  Okay. Good deal.
[01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:54.800]  And who's going to throw who under the bus? Well, recently I had so much fun when I went
[01:40:54.800 --> 01:41:05.080]  to my local chief of police. They had refused to give a complaint that I filed to the local
[01:41:05.080 --> 01:41:10.000]  magistrate or the county attorney. And he said the county attorney told him not to.
[01:41:10.000 --> 01:41:15.040]  So the county attorney, he come out and said, Mr. Kelton, do you think I'm out of my professional
[01:41:15.040 --> 01:41:21.480]  mind? Do you really think I would waive my sovereign immunity by giving legal advice
[01:41:21.480 --> 01:41:22.480]  to the police?
[01:41:22.480 --> 01:41:29.600]  I said, well, James, I didn't think so, but I'm just following the thunder here. So I
[01:41:29.600 --> 01:41:35.280]  went back and knocked on the chief's door and he come to the door. Can I help you, Mr. Kelton?
[01:41:35.280 --> 01:41:41.760]  I said, yes, chief, the county attorney just threw you under the bus and I'm here to run
[01:41:41.760 --> 01:41:45.400]  you over with it.
[01:41:45.400 --> 01:41:52.280]  That was so much fun. He just ducked his head. Come on in, Mr. Kelton.
[01:41:52.280 --> 01:42:00.600]  But now you may have that opportunity. They may start throwing one another under the bus.
[01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:08.360]  That's what happens. Your attorney is probably afraid that the judge is going to throw her
[01:42:08.360 --> 01:42:15.800]  under the bus and she's not going to want to be thrown under the bus, especially when
[01:42:15.800 --> 01:42:25.640]  you sent her a bill for the time that this cost you. And did the judge ever admit or
[01:42:25.640 --> 01:42:29.480]  did he deny having you arrested?
[01:42:29.480 --> 01:42:35.960]  He would not answer my question. I asked him twice. He looked down at the table and just
[01:42:35.960 --> 01:42:36.960]  went on.
[01:42:36.960 --> 01:42:45.120]  You should have stopped him. You didn't answer my question. If you had me arrested, I'd need
[01:42:45.120 --> 01:42:53.400]  an answer because if you did, I want you to get out off that bench. He didn't and he didn't
[01:42:53.400 --> 01:42:55.120]  want to bury the lawyer.
[01:42:55.120 --> 01:42:56.120]  Okay.
[01:42:56.120 --> 01:43:04.280]  So he didn't have anything to do with it. The lawyer did it and now he's going to throw
[01:43:04.280 --> 01:43:09.200]  her under the bus because he didn't say yes, he did.
[01:43:09.200 --> 01:43:13.040]  No. Can I redeem myself in the future?
[01:43:13.040 --> 01:43:18.720]  Wait a minute. Was that a question?
[01:43:18.720 --> 01:43:24.560]  Yeah. If I get another hearing, can I reopen that question? Hey, judge, why did you arrest
[01:43:24.560 --> 01:43:26.400]  me? Tell me now.
[01:43:26.400 --> 01:43:34.400]  Yes. Well, you might do a request for the court order to order your arrest.
[01:43:34.400 --> 01:43:36.600]  Got it. Okay.
[01:43:36.600 --> 01:43:40.360]  The arrest order referred to by this lawyer.
[01:43:40.360 --> 01:43:41.360]  Okay.
[01:43:41.360 --> 01:43:47.920]  Okay. Thank you, Jeff. We're about to go to another break. Randy Kelton, Debra Stevens,
[01:43:47.920 --> 01:43:55.440]  we have our radio. Our call in number is 512-646-1984. We're going to our last break. So if you
[01:43:55.440 --> 01:44:00.320]  have a question or comment, give us a call. We'll be right back.
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[01:46:21.600 --> 01:46:49.960]  Okay, we are back, Brenda Kelton and Deborah Stevens, Rule of Law Radio, and we have won
[01:46:49.960 --> 01:46:58.120]  a steemed caller, the immutable, the undeniable, Mr. Jeff Sedgwick. Hello, Mr. Jess.
[01:46:58.120 --> 01:47:05.960]  Hello. Good evening. I sent you a Skype, asking if you had time for me to do a little, to
[01:47:05.960 --> 01:47:10.240]  give you a little information about an 11th Circuit decision that was handed down on the
[01:47:10.240 --> 01:47:11.240]  5th of January.
[01:47:11.240 --> 01:47:18.080]  Yeah, and I apologize. I didn't see that Skype earlier. I'm old and I don't multitask well.
[01:47:18.080 --> 01:47:19.080]  Okay.
[01:47:19.080 --> 01:47:26.400]  And I have all my Skype sounds turned off, because if I don't, Deborah will beat me.
[01:47:26.400 --> 01:47:36.600]  It's a first blush case, and it's a very interesting case. A guy gets sued by a debt buyer. He
[01:47:36.600 --> 01:47:43.080]  wins the case. He contacts all three of the credit reporting agencies. All but one takes
[01:47:43.080 --> 01:47:49.000]  it off. The one that didn't take it off sent back a letter, said, hey, the zip code on
[01:47:49.000 --> 01:47:53.960]  your envelope didn't match the zip code in our records. We have a suspicion that this
[01:47:53.960 --> 01:47:59.520]  isn't you. Please send us all this information to verify that it's you, and we'll entertain
[01:47:59.520 --> 01:48:10.120]  your request. So he did. And again, they refused to take it off. So he sues him in District
[01:48:10.120 --> 01:48:23.720]  Court for failure to conduct a reasonable investigation under 1681 IA. And they snooker
[01:48:23.720 --> 01:48:30.800]  the District Court judge by saying, well, he's not really entitled to any damages because
[01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:38.520]  we never conveyed a report to anyone. So the District Judge on motion for summary judgment
[01:48:38.520 --> 01:48:48.760]  gave the judgment to the credit reporting agency. He appeals, takes it into court, points
[01:48:48.760 --> 01:48:57.760]  out to the Circuit Court the judge erred, because under 1681 IA, it doesn't say anything
[01:48:57.760 --> 01:49:14.240]  about a credit report. It says, is credit file. So the judge basically says, yea, verily,
[01:49:14.240 --> 01:49:22.080]  you're entitled to statutory damages, actual damages, and punitive damages, but only under
[01:49:22.080 --> 01:49:35.280]  negligence, not under willful. You with me? I was thinking, I was trying to structure
[01:49:35.280 --> 01:49:44.520]  out the difference between negligent and willful. Okay. In this context. I can send a case to
[01:49:44.520 --> 01:49:48.600]  you, and he gives a bit of a dissertation in there, and it's much too long to try and
[01:49:48.600 --> 01:49:54.400]  handle in the few minutes you have left in the show. Oh, okay. But we've got, you're
[01:49:54.400 --> 01:50:03.600]  the only caller, so we've got another eight minutes. Which is also interesting. Okay.
[01:50:03.600 --> 01:50:11.360]  What I was wondering is, why is this one so important? How else can we use this? Well,
[01:50:11.360 --> 01:50:22.560]  I'm getting to that. Okay. That was my next step. Okay, I'll shut up. The same statute
[01:50:22.560 --> 01:50:37.560]  also applies to the furniture. The furniture being one that furnished the original documentation
[01:50:37.560 --> 01:50:45.560]  to the credit reporting agency to put the mark on the credit. Is that correct? Yes,
[01:50:45.560 --> 01:50:55.560]  and the furniture knew they had lost the case, but they were verifying the CRA's inquiry.
[01:50:55.560 --> 01:51:07.000]  Isn't that interesting? Oh, wait a minute. Verifying the credit reporting agency's inquiry.
[01:51:07.000 --> 01:51:16.960]  The credit reporting agency would send an investigatory inquiry to the furniture saying,
[01:51:16.960 --> 01:51:24.360]  hey, this is disputed, please verify it. So they verified a debt that had already been
[01:51:24.360 --> 01:51:30.120]  trashed in court. Yes. And it was-
[01:51:30.120 --> 01:51:38.920]  This collateral estoppel. They were the ones who sued him for the debt. So they had to
[01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:52.360]  have known that they had lost. There is a current case in, I'm not sure if it's the
[01:51:52.360 --> 01:51:59.860]  Atlanta district court or just, it should be in the Dublin district court in Georgia,
[01:51:59.860 --> 01:52:03.920]  but it's not. It's in a different one. I think it's in the Atlanta district court.
[01:52:03.920 --> 01:52:16.520]  It's the very same case, but it is going after the debt buying furniture. And that is at
[01:52:16.520 --> 01:52:21.120]  this moment up on the field. Okay, that was going to be my question. Did
[01:52:21.120 --> 01:52:24.920]  they also sue the furniture that you answered that question?
[01:52:24.920 --> 01:52:34.080]  In this particular instance, they did not sue the furniture, keeping in mind that both
[01:52:34.080 --> 01:52:43.560]  of these cases are first blush. Not a good idea to take on two separate issues first
[01:52:43.560 --> 01:52:49.160]  blush. I was thinking they did well by staying with
[01:52:49.160 --> 01:52:56.600]  one point or one litigant. Two litigants can really mess things up.
[01:52:56.600 --> 01:53:02.680]  Right. Well, now because of this decision out of the 11th circuit, which coincidentally
[01:53:02.680 --> 01:53:14.040]  includes the Atlanta division of the district, this now becomes supporting doctrine for their
[01:53:14.040 --> 01:53:24.080]  case. If it's in one district and it's a first blush,
[01:53:24.080 --> 01:53:32.040]  it would be still strongly advisable for all of the other districts under full faith and
[01:53:32.040 --> 01:53:38.160]  credit because they haven't considered the issue that this one has. So I apologize for
[01:53:38.160 --> 01:53:42.640]  that in the background. So this should be citable in every district.
[01:53:42.640 --> 01:53:52.240]  They're coming to get me. That's why they had that wheelchair tied
[01:53:52.240 --> 01:53:59.160]  to the back of it. Right. That and the shovel. They hit me over
[01:53:59.160 --> 01:54:09.360]  the head with it. Anyway, you were saying. No, that was pretty much it, that this should
[01:54:09.360 --> 01:54:17.920]  be citable everywhere because it's first blush. Well, yes, but you know yourself that if you
[01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:22.840]  take that particular circuit court decision into another circuit, it's not going to be
[01:54:22.840 --> 01:54:28.600]  controlling. It's just going to be persuasive. Right. Just advisory. But it's strongly advisory
[01:54:28.600 --> 01:54:36.880]  because nobody else has considered it. And the court, one court tends to trust another.
[01:54:36.880 --> 01:54:46.560]  This whole notion of good faith and I mean, full faith and credit. And what was it? Landmark
[01:54:46.560 --> 01:54:52.360]  v. Kessler addressed that really well when they said that we have never looked at this
[01:54:52.360 --> 01:54:59.240]  issue, but courts in other states have looked at this issue and under full faith and credit,
[01:54:59.240 --> 01:55:07.920]  they trusted those courts to make a good determination. Right. Well, the end result was that the circuit
[01:55:07.920 --> 01:55:16.440]  court sent it back down to the district court for additional litigation. And what the circuit
[01:55:16.440 --> 01:55:27.680]  court did remove from the complaint basically was the willful part. So even though the willful
[01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:35.280]  part has been removed, the negligent part is still there. So they are in launch mode,
[01:55:35.280 --> 01:55:45.800]  for statutory damages, actual damages and punitive damages in the form of negligence.
[01:55:45.800 --> 01:55:56.160]  If this occurs again, then the intentional will definitely be animated because then it
[01:55:56.160 --> 01:56:05.400]  can go for willful. Willful. That's what the word is looking for. So, yeah. But it's a,
[01:56:05.400 --> 01:56:13.960]  you know, this is getting to be very interesting that all of this stuff that's going on. It
[01:56:13.960 --> 01:56:23.200]  sounds like we're, the courts are tending to rule more in our favor. You know, I don't
[01:56:23.200 --> 01:56:30.320]  know that I would necessarily go quite that far. I think I would be more inclined to say
[01:56:30.320 --> 01:56:44.200]  they're willing to accept the arguments from pro se as being legitimate, worthy arguments.
[01:56:44.200 --> 01:56:53.840]  That is a good sign. Is it a sign that the pro se's are getting better or that the courts
[01:56:53.840 --> 01:57:00.960]  are paying more attention to the pro se's? It's both actually. I think in the case of
[01:57:00.960 --> 01:57:06.920]  the, like in the case of the mortgages, you know, the pro se's and even those represented
[01:57:06.920 --> 01:57:16.360]  by attorneys, you know, it was just struggling and efforting. It just could not get wins.
[01:57:16.360 --> 01:57:24.680]  And then the investors for the mortgage backed securities started going into court raising
[01:57:24.680 --> 01:57:33.920]  some of the same issues. And when the same issues got raised, now they had more issues
[01:57:33.920 --> 01:57:39.560]  than just the ones that the homeowners had. But a lot of the issues that they had were
[01:57:39.560 --> 01:57:46.080]  basically the same or at least a very close parallel. The courts began to recognize, hey,
[01:57:46.080 --> 01:57:50.480]  with these people over here in the consumer side of the house, maybe they're not trying
[01:57:50.480 --> 01:57:57.560]  to get a free house. Maybe they do have a legitimate piece. Well, that is good news
[01:57:57.560 --> 01:58:05.080]  because we do seem to be getting more in our favor. Okay. Thank you very much, Jeff. We
[01:58:05.080 --> 01:58:10.280]  are about out of time and I still want to get you on as a guest. We could do a real
[01:58:10.280 --> 01:58:27.880]  good show. We could do a Jeff Sedgwick Roast. Okay. Thank you, Jeff. Bye bye.
[01:58:40.280 --> 01:58:52.480]  Oh, somebody muted my mic again. Thank you for listening. Bibles for America is offering
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