[00:00.000 --> 00:07.640]  This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates, online
[00:07.640 --> 00:08.640]  at thelibertybeat.com.
[00:08.640 --> 00:14.080]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Thursday, January 22, 2015.
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[00:29.800 --> 00:33.720]  The Liberty Beat is hosting a fundraiser to send journalists to New York City to cover
[00:33.720 --> 00:36.280]  the entirety of the Ross Ulberg trial.
[00:36.280 --> 00:38.360]  The Liberty Beat is news you can trust.
[00:38.360 --> 00:40.920]  Let us be your eyes and ears on the ground in New York.
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[00:50.760 --> 00:55.320]  In the news, day five in the Ross Ulberg trial saw the prosecution call computer scientist
[00:55.320 --> 00:58.440]  and FBI agent Tom Kiernan to the witness stand.
[00:58.440 --> 01:04.280]  Kiernan led the October 1st, 2013 arrest of Ulberg at Glen Park Library in San Francisco.
[01:04.280 --> 01:08.240]  During the arrest, plain clothes FBI agent swiped Ulberg's laptop and quickly handed
[01:08.240 --> 01:10.280]  it off to Agent Kiernan.
[01:10.280 --> 01:14.440]  Among the files on the laptop revealed to the jury were detailed journal logs dating
[01:14.440 --> 01:19.200]  back to 2010, when the Silk Road was just an idea for an economic experiment.
[01:19.200 --> 01:23.480]  The journals document much more than that, however, sharing intimate details about Silk
[01:23.480 --> 01:28.920]  Road's day-to-day operation, including staff changes, hosting issues, and growing veins.
[01:28.920 --> 01:33.400]  They also show a tour chat about how to deal with vendors who break the rules.
[01:33.400 --> 01:38.240]  That chat was between the Dread Pirate Roberts and a user called DigitalAlchemy, in which
[01:38.240 --> 01:43.760]  the Dread Pirate Roberts wrote, quote, are you ready to become judge, jury, and executioner?
[01:43.760 --> 01:48.120]  After yesterday's testimony, the defense is facing an uphill battle, convincing the jury
[01:48.120 --> 01:52.280]  of the narrative presented in their opening statement that Ulberg created Silk Road, but
[01:52.280 --> 01:56.080]  he did not manage it or operate the site throughout his lifetime.
[01:56.080 --> 02:00.040]  The jury will get to decide for themselves when the defense cross-examines Agent Kiernan
[02:00.040 --> 02:01.480]  today.
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[03:18.760 --> 03:27.080]  Tell me, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do, yeah
[03:27.080 --> 03:32.560]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you
[03:32.560 --> 03:38.240]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you
[03:38.240 --> 03:43.680]  When you were eight and you had bad traits You'd go to school and learn the golden rule
[03:43.680 --> 03:46.480]  So why are you acting like a bloody fool?
[03:46.480 --> 03:49.120]  If you get hot then you must get cool
[03:49.120 --> 03:54.400]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you
[03:54.400 --> 04:00.320]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you
[04:00.320 --> 04:02.960]  You chuck it on that one, you chuck it on this one
[04:02.960 --> 04:05.520]  You chuck it on your mother and you chuck it on your father
[04:05.520 --> 04:08.280]  You chuck it on your brother and you chuck it on your sister
[04:08.280 --> 04:11.080]  You chuck it on that one and you chuck it on me
[04:11.080 --> 04:16.320]  Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you
[04:16.320 --> 04:19.360]  Bad boys, bad boys Whatcha gonna do?
[04:19.920 --> 04:32.480]  Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
[04:32.680 --> 04:37.440]  Nobody now give you no break Police now give you no break
[04:37.580 --> 04:43.560]  That old soldier man now give you no break Not even your adjunct now give you no break
[04:43.560 --> 05:06.560]  Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do? What you gonna do when they come for you?
[05:13.560 --> 05:24.560]  Bad boys, bad boys, what are you going to do when we come for you? Here on the
[05:24.560 --> 05:32.160]  Rule of Law. This is the Rule of Law Show on Logos Radio Network. It is Thursday,
[05:32.160 --> 05:40.200]  January 22nd, 2015. I'm Deborah Stevens here with Randy Kelton and we will be
[05:40.200 --> 05:44.400]  taking your calls a little bit later in the evening. But first we have a guest, a
[05:44.400 --> 05:48.360]  very special guest, who wants to tell her story. We're going to discuss the
[05:48.360 --> 05:53.480]  situation. Someone in her life has defrauded the Social Security
[05:53.480 --> 05:59.000]  Administration and come to find out the Texas Attorney General's office. And as a
[05:59.000 --> 06:05.520]  result, Ms. Mary has been harmed and we are going to discuss that situation and
[06:05.520 --> 06:10.040]  how we can help and what Mary can do about this. Mary, thank you and
[06:10.040 --> 06:16.520]  welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Yes, okay. So can you please tell us in
[06:16.520 --> 06:20.780]  your own words the story? And we know that you're on limited time. You need to
[06:20.780 --> 06:26.240]  go by 830 or so. So just tell us your story and then we will offer up some
[06:26.240 --> 06:33.080]  tips on how we can help and what you can do. Okay, recently my daughter passed
[06:33.080 --> 06:40.840]  away about eight months ago and she had five children. I have custody of the
[06:40.840 --> 06:47.960]  oldest one, which is not her husband's biological child. He raised when she
[06:47.960 --> 06:55.220]  was a baby and about four months ago I became her legal guardian. There was a
[06:55.220 --> 06:59.800]  lot of mess going on and they called me. They called me down to pick her up. So
[06:59.800 --> 07:07.000]  she's been with me since probably October 12th. When she come with me, she's 13
[07:07.000 --> 07:11.240]  years old. When she came with me and I told them to send her her clothes and
[07:11.240 --> 07:16.040]  things like that, you should, they sent me like this little container of things,
[07:16.040 --> 07:20.520]  maybe three or four outfits. So I called them back and asked her where's her clothes.
[07:20.520 --> 07:24.360]  They said, girl, she'll be back in about two weeks. So I got a notice then that
[07:24.360 --> 07:27.880]  I'm going to have custody of her. She will never go back in the house again
[07:27.880 --> 07:33.720]  since she's 18 if she wants to then. So I asked to send all her clothes to me. So
[07:33.720 --> 07:39.160]  when I got her clothes, there was nothing. So I had to go take her shopping, get her
[07:39.160 --> 07:44.960]  all new things, everything and I was told, the person told me, her stepdad told me
[07:44.960 --> 07:49.600]  that I'd buy something for her to use a different receipt, make sure I have her
[07:49.600 --> 07:56.560]  receipt by itself and I'm supposed to fax it to him, put it on the phone so he
[07:56.560 --> 08:04.920]  can reimburse me. He reimbursed me $103 which the bill was like $300 and that's
[08:04.920 --> 08:08.320]  the only one I received since then. It's been almost four months. I have not gotten
[08:08.320 --> 08:14.400]  another dime. I have called, I have called and they won't give me a dime and to my
[08:14.400 --> 08:18.560]  knowledge, I think he's still carrying her on the food stamps. He's still
[08:18.560 --> 08:22.720]  receiving her food stamps. I called him and I called and said they don't want to
[08:22.720 --> 08:27.520]  talk anymore to talk to his lawyer. I talked to his lawyer. His lawyer told me
[08:27.520 --> 08:31.680]  to write a letter and let them know to give me money. Why should I write a letter?
[08:31.680 --> 08:36.680]  They know they're supposed to give me money. So I was going to give it up and say
[08:36.680 --> 08:40.000]  this is my grandbaby, I'll take care of myself. My grandbaby said no, that's my money.
[08:40.000 --> 08:45.200]  My mom left that money to me. I want to go shopping and get me things that I
[08:45.200 --> 08:51.320]  don't have. I'm in sports now. She's grown up 14 years old. So it makes sense. That's
[08:51.320 --> 08:55.640]  her money. Why should I not, you know, get the money? So I called them and I
[08:55.640 --> 09:01.080]  text them. I did everything I could. They would not send me anything. They
[09:01.080 --> 09:06.840]  would not even talk to me. And matter of fact, they won't even let her even see her
[09:06.840 --> 09:09.680]  sisters and brothers, which is full of sisters and brothers. She had not seen her
[09:09.680 --> 09:15.040]  sisters and brothers since she's been here. And we were told when she left the
[09:15.040 --> 09:18.400]  place, when I picked her up, she could see her sisters and brothers. They could
[09:18.400 --> 09:22.640]  visit back and forth, Christmas, Thanksgiving. She has not seen them yet.
[09:22.640 --> 09:29.080]  So I was told to call legal aid and they was, it was, I was just a big miss
[09:29.080 --> 09:32.120]  calling legal aid because they want you to go to a class. They want you to stand in line
[09:32.120 --> 09:35.960]  for three hours. I couldn't afford a lawyer at that particular time because I'm on
[09:35.960 --> 09:41.560]  disability myself. So I can't do all that. So I didn't know what else to do. I
[09:41.560 --> 09:45.520]  know he has not given me about a hundred and three dollars and that was in
[09:45.520 --> 09:50.160]  October. And so her check, to my knowledge, she's going to be getting a
[09:50.160 --> 09:54.760]  check from her real father and from when my daughter passed away. I have not
[09:54.760 --> 09:58.600]  received anything else since then. I haven't received anything. Matter of fact, we
[09:58.600 --> 10:03.880]  can't even communicate anymore. So that's the situation pretty much.
[10:03.880 --> 10:10.720]  Okay, so just to back up a little bit to clarify, your daughter was receiving
[10:10.720 --> 10:15.240]  disability checks from Social Security before she went to be with the Lord.
[10:15.240 --> 10:20.400]  And also the children were also receiving checks from Social Security
[10:20.400 --> 10:28.080]  Administration. And so the one of the main issues here is that he was the
[10:28.080 --> 10:33.320]  executor of your daughter's estate since he was her husband. He's the widower now.
[10:33.320 --> 10:39.000]  And it was his responsibility to take care of all the financial affairs, wrap
[10:39.000 --> 10:45.800]  everything up. You obtained custody of the granddaughter, which is not his blood
[10:45.800 --> 10:51.880]  child. That's his stepchild. And you obtained custody in October. The
[10:51.880 --> 10:56.560]  daughter went to be with the Lord over a year ago. It was his responsibility, the
[10:56.560 --> 11:02.960]  widower, to wrap up these financial affairs and make sure that your
[11:02.960 --> 11:07.360]  granddaughter's Social Security check was coming to you or coming to your
[11:07.360 --> 11:13.920]  daughter at your address as of October, okay? And so that has not happened. And
[11:13.920 --> 11:19.480]  furthermore, he has not afforded you any of the money. And so Randy and I had
[11:19.480 --> 11:23.800]  discussed the situation a little bit off the air before you came on. And we both
[11:23.800 --> 11:28.800]  agreed that the Social... What's happening is that he's defrauding the
[11:28.800 --> 11:32.760]  Social Security Administration, okay? He was supposed to let them know about this
[11:32.760 --> 11:37.680]  in October, and he didn't. It wasn't your responsibility. But now the situation has
[11:37.680 --> 11:43.560]  come to a head. So basically, to solve that problem, all you really need to do
[11:43.560 --> 11:46.880]  is contact the Social Security Administration and let them know what's
[11:46.880 --> 11:50.680]  going on briefly, that the custody has changed. And you'll probably need to
[11:50.680 --> 11:55.480]  forward them a copy of the court order regarding the custody change that
[11:55.480 --> 11:59.420]  happened last October. And at that point, it's the Social Security's
[11:59.420 --> 12:06.320]  Administration responsibility to pay you basically back benefits, or I guess pay
[12:06.320 --> 12:11.120]  your granddaughter back benefits from October. And they're not going to be very
[12:11.120 --> 12:17.280]  happy about having to pay twice. And so they're going to go after him to get
[12:17.280 --> 12:24.480]  the money back. And if they can't get it back from him, he is going to be in a lot
[12:24.480 --> 12:29.520]  of trouble and could possibly end up in jail over this. So you don't need to get
[12:29.520 --> 12:33.680]  a lawyer over this. The federal government is your attorney at this
[12:33.680 --> 12:37.920]  point. I mean, he is in big, big trouble. And we're going to discuss how he's
[12:37.920 --> 12:41.840]  defrauded the Texas Attorney General's office here in a moment. But Randy, what
[12:41.840 --> 12:49.000]  is your comment on this? Yes. One thing you need to understand, you don't have
[12:49.000 --> 12:58.800]  any duty here. I need to frame this so it makes legal sense. The Social Security
[12:58.800 --> 13:06.760]  Administration paid Social Security to your daughter, your granddaughter. I'm
[13:06.760 --> 13:10.920]  sorry, your daughter. Actually, Randy, the checks did come in the name of the minor.
[13:10.920 --> 13:16.240]  I did clarify that. And Ms. Mary says that she knows other people where for some
[13:16.240 --> 13:19.640]  reason the checks do come in the name of the minor and whoever that legal
[13:19.640 --> 13:24.480]  guardian is signs the back of the check. Okay. For the benefit of the minor,
[13:24.480 --> 13:29.880]  you didn't have anything to do with this. When you talk to the Social Security
[13:29.880 --> 13:36.000]  Administration, what they're going to try to do is place the responsibility for
[13:36.000 --> 13:43.160]  what's going on on anyone they can. But you didn't have anything to do with the
[13:43.160 --> 13:47.120]  original Social Security. You didn't have anything to do with anything that went
[13:47.120 --> 13:56.320]  on until you were appointed guardian. So whatever, and after that, it wasn't your
[13:56.320 --> 14:04.080]  duty to know everything that had went on before you were involved in this
[14:04.080 --> 14:10.200]  situation. So you had no duty to go to the Social Security system and say, hey,
[14:10.200 --> 14:15.440]  you know those checks you've been sending to the stepfather here for the
[14:15.440 --> 14:22.200]  benefit of his stepdaughter? You should have been sending those to me. Well, you
[14:22.200 --> 14:28.960]  had no way of knowing officially that she was receiving any checks. So you had
[14:28.960 --> 14:36.840]  no duty. It was the duty of the stepfather. Now, the best way to
[14:36.840 --> 14:45.880]  understand law is if it doesn't seem right, it's probably not. So it's
[14:45.880 --> 14:52.240]  unreasonable to think that this is the first time this situation has occurred.
[14:52.240 --> 14:59.320]  This situation has occurred probably more times than we could even count up
[14:59.320 --> 15:07.160]  to in millions, because we have a stepfather here. We have a family collecting
[15:07.160 --> 15:14.800]  Social Security. The mother dogs. Social Security checks keep coming. Oh, cool,
[15:14.800 --> 15:20.960]  look at these checks I got. Well, the guy's a little short on cash. You know, I
[15:20.960 --> 15:27.440]  probably should tell the Social Security administration that this money really
[15:27.440 --> 15:34.320]  ought to go somewhere else. People don't do that. You can't imagine this is the
[15:34.320 --> 15:38.840]  first time that's happened. And you can't imagine that Social Security
[15:38.840 --> 15:44.400]  administration doesn't have some very serious procedures in place to handle
[15:44.400 --> 15:52.720]  those kinds of situations. Point is, this is not your duty to get this right. It's
[15:52.720 --> 15:58.960]  Social Security administration duty to get it right. Because of that, you don't
[15:58.960 --> 16:06.880]  have to hire an attorney, because you have no duty here. It is Social Security
[16:06.880 --> 16:12.200]  administration that owes this money to you. If they paid it to the wrong party,
[16:12.200 --> 16:18.440]  their problem, not your problem. Yes, their problem. And furthermore, the
[16:18.440 --> 16:22.800]  stepfather's problem big time, because he's been defrauding the Social
[16:22.800 --> 16:27.600]  Security administration. It was his duty as the executor of your daughter's
[16:27.600 --> 16:34.000]  estate to work out all these details. So we are about to go to break. If you can
[16:34.000 --> 16:39.080]  hold on, Miss Mary, we will be back on the other side. This is the rule of law,
[16:39.080 --> 16:45.080]  ruleoflawradio.com on Logos Radio Network. Logosradionetwork.com. We will be
[16:45.080 --> 16:48.800]  right back.
[17:02.120 --> 17:07.000]  January is the time for new beginnings, a chance to sharpen our focus on what's
[17:07.000 --> 17:11.440]  important and recommit to ourselves and loved ones. Logos Radio Network is
[17:11.440 --> 17:15.680]  holding their third gun giveaway as a part of their annual fundraiser. Donate
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[18:21.240 --> 18:25.960]  to do when contacted by phones, mail, or court summons, how to answer letters and
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[18:56.440 --> 19:01.800]  at yahoo.com to learn how to stop debt collectors now.
[19:01.800 --> 19:10.200]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, logosradionetwork.com.
[19:31.800 --> 19:58.280]  Okay, we are back. This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens here
[19:58.280 --> 20:03.400]  tonight, Thursday, January 22nd. We're here talking to Mary and she may only be
[20:03.400 --> 20:07.440]  able to stay with us another segment so I want to move on to the next topic. We
[20:07.440 --> 20:12.200]  may have to save a more in-depth analysis until after Mary leaves us and
[20:12.200 --> 20:15.400]  she can go back and listen to the archive. We have Ken Magnuson on the line
[20:15.400 --> 20:20.080]  as well to give his take. We'll see how far we can get in this next segment
[20:20.080 --> 20:25.160]  with Mary but I want to get to the next topic on how he has defrauded the Texas
[20:25.160 --> 20:29.480]  Attorney General's office. Mary, you're going to love this. From what I
[20:29.480 --> 20:40.680]  understand, the real father has been paying child support to the stepdad post
[20:40.680 --> 20:48.680]  after your daughter went to be with the Lord. As of October, those
[20:48.680 --> 20:55.160]  child support checks were supposed to be coming to you because you have had
[20:55.160 --> 21:02.040]  custody of the granddaughter ever since October. Well, this all goes to the Texas
[21:02.040 --> 21:05.720]  Attorney General's office. The child support checks do not go directly to the
[21:05.720 --> 21:10.840]  to the guardian or the custodial parent. Okay, so basically it was his
[21:10.840 --> 21:16.560]  responsibility once again to notify the Texas Attorney General's office of the
[21:16.560 --> 21:22.560]  change in custody and he did not do that. He's been collecting these child support
[21:22.560 --> 21:30.200]  payments from the Attorney General basically fraudulently, just like he's
[21:30.200 --> 21:35.720]  been holding on to your granddaughter's social security checks fraudulently.
[21:35.720 --> 21:42.960]  This guy could end up in jail for a long time. He said he's not getting the child support check.
[21:42.960 --> 21:56.320]  My grandbaby says, for she knows, he is. He says he's not. He says he's not. He says he's not, but my grandbaby says, for she knows, he is. So I don't really know.
[21:56.320 --> 22:00.080]  Well, the bottom line is that he was supposed to notify the Texas Attorney
[22:00.080 --> 22:07.320]  General's office either way, regardless of whether he has been getting
[22:07.320 --> 22:11.680]  the checks from the Attorney General's office or not or from, you know, whatever.
[22:11.680 --> 22:17.800]  Sometimes there's a municipal entity that is involved as well and so if, I mean,
[22:17.800 --> 22:24.400]  even if checks have not been coming, he's still, he is still in error here by
[22:24.400 --> 22:29.960]  not notifying the Attorney General's office and if indeed he has been
[22:29.960 --> 22:35.960]  getting child support checks from the Attorney General's office since October,
[22:35.960 --> 22:39.040]  let me tell you what, the Attorney General is going to land on him like a
[22:39.040 --> 22:43.840]  ton of bricks. So he's about to be in some really deep doo-doo with the
[22:43.840 --> 22:48.280]  Texas Attorney General as well as the U.S. Department of Justice and Social
[22:48.280 --> 22:51.880]  Security Administration. Randy, you have any comments on this?
[22:51.880 --> 22:57.880]  Yes, the one thing that, about the Attorney General, when it comes to child
[22:57.880 --> 23:05.240]  support, the Attorney General is not somebody anybody wants to mess with
[23:05.240 --> 23:11.360]  because it is the Attorney General's responsibility to handle child support
[23:11.360 --> 23:16.000]  and as I understand, child support is required to be paid to the Attorney
[23:16.000 --> 23:23.120]  General and the Attorney General just distributes the child support to the
[23:23.120 --> 23:32.040]  individuals who are entitled to receive it. If the Attorney General is
[23:32.040 --> 23:38.840]  receiving child support payments from the biological father and is distributing
[23:38.840 --> 23:47.800]  the funds to someone other than the person who has custody of the child and
[23:47.800 --> 23:54.800]  that person has not notified the Attorney General that they're not the
[23:54.800 --> 23:59.320]  proper persons, people to receive it. The Attorney General is going to get real
[23:59.320 --> 24:08.000]  excited and what I'm trying, what I want to do here is explain the legal side.
[24:08.000 --> 24:17.160]  Legally, you don't know anything about this. Whatever you may actually know is
[24:17.160 --> 24:25.640]  irrelevant. What you legally know is what you have been officially notified of or
[24:25.640 --> 24:33.600]  what you have a legal duty to know. Now, you have been appointed the
[24:33.600 --> 24:41.200]  appointed custody of the child. You have no legal duty to know anything
[24:41.200 --> 24:47.720]  about Social Security, child support, any of that kind of stuff. It is the duty of
[24:47.720 --> 24:54.920]  those governmental agencies who are required to distribute these funds to
[24:54.920 --> 25:01.560]  give you notice of what you have no way of knowing without their notice. This has
[25:01.560 --> 25:06.920]  to do with children and most of what has to do with children is secret. You can't
[25:06.920 --> 25:14.400]  just find this information out. So there is a policy and law called imputed
[25:14.400 --> 25:23.840]  knowledge and those things that are filed in the public record, you have a, you are
[25:23.840 --> 25:30.000]  imputed to have knowledge of. But this is about children and these things are not
[25:30.000 --> 25:35.400]  in the public record. So you have no duty to know them. Okay, so at this point,
[25:35.400 --> 25:39.600]  should she notify the Texas Attorney General's office that she has custody
[25:39.600 --> 25:46.160]  now? Mary, if I were you, I would contact the Attorney General and tell the
[25:46.160 --> 25:50.480]  attorney and get a hold of one of their lawyers and say, I have received custody
[25:50.480 --> 25:56.840]  of my grandchild and I have reason to believe that child support is being paid
[25:56.840 --> 26:04.000]  to the stepfather, but I'm not receiving that child support. And then engage the
[26:04.000 --> 26:08.800]  Attorney General in your, on your behalf. And they'll know whether the
[26:08.800 --> 26:15.120]  biological father has been paying or not and what you are owed. Now, I don't mean
[26:15.120 --> 26:18.880]  to rush through this. We're going to do more analysis in the next segment, but
[26:18.880 --> 26:23.200]  just in case Mary has to go, I want to address one other issue before we go to
[26:23.200 --> 26:28.240]  break that she was concerned about. Mary is concerned that the biological father
[26:28.240 --> 26:34.000]  at this point may possibly try to gain custody of his 14-year-old daughter,
[26:34.000 --> 26:38.200]  mainly to get the money, mainly to get the Social Security check and to not
[26:38.200 --> 26:43.520]  have to pay child support anymore. But apparently the biological father has
[26:43.520 --> 26:47.440]  really not taken any interest in the child from what I understand from the
[26:47.440 --> 26:53.200]  story and even was delinquent on child support for many years. And his income
[26:53.200 --> 26:57.560]  tax refund check had to be garnished at one point, all kinds of things. And so
[26:57.560 --> 27:06.320]  Randy, can you please tell Mary what is the likelihood that this biological
[27:06.320 --> 27:10.480]  father would actually win in court in a custody battle if he tried to get custody
[27:10.480 --> 27:17.040]  of the child? Okay, you watch the TV programs and on the TV programs the
[27:17.040 --> 27:22.640]  biological father shows up out of the clear blue sky and wants custody and
[27:22.640 --> 27:27.200]  control of the child and they just say, oh, we have to give it to a horse
[27:27.200 --> 27:36.560]  manure. The judge in a family court, he is not going to care one iota about the
[27:36.560 --> 27:41.160]  father. He's not going to care about the mother. He's not going to care about the
[27:41.160 --> 27:47.880]  grandmother. He's not going to care about anybody except that child. Now is whatever
[27:47.880 --> 27:52.160]  we may say about these family court judges, however corrupt we may think they
[27:52.160 --> 27:58.680]  are, in the end they're human beings and they're also political. The worst thing
[27:58.680 --> 28:04.640]  you can do is harm a child. In this culture and that judge sitting on that
[28:04.640 --> 28:13.760]  bench, he is going to consider first the benefit of the child. And where we have a
[28:13.760 --> 28:20.280]  grandmother stepping in, where nobody else stepped in, to act in the best
[28:20.280 --> 28:25.200]  interest of the child, Mary you are in the best position. And because the
[28:25.200 --> 28:32.560]  granddaughter is of age of emancipation, which means that, you know, she doesn't
[28:32.560 --> 28:36.840]  have the legal right as an adult to decide where she wants to go, but the
[28:36.840 --> 28:41.960]  court will take it into very, very strong consideration as long as, you know, and
[28:41.960 --> 28:47.120]  basically let her go wherever she wants into whomever's custody she wants as
[28:47.120 --> 28:50.800]  long as it's, you know, not on the street or with a boyfriend or something.
[28:50.800 --> 28:56.200]  Yeah, keep in mind everything's political and this judge does not want it to get
[28:56.200 --> 29:02.160]  in the news that the judge put a child in the hands of someone who harmed the
[29:02.160 --> 29:09.720]  child. Right. And grandmothers are safe. In other words, the likelihood of a father who
[29:09.720 --> 29:16.240]  has been uninterested being able to come in and take control of the child so he
[29:16.240 --> 29:22.800]  can receive the support is somewhere between little and none. Go ahead, Mary.
[29:22.800 --> 29:30.840]  He hadn't seen her in about 12 years, but then she tried to call and talk to him. He said
[29:30.840 --> 29:38.040]  he didn't want to have anything to do with her. And that was it. So he's not
[29:38.040 --> 29:42.200]  going to have standing to come back now because the judge, you know, the judge is
[29:42.200 --> 29:49.520]  probably a father and a grandfather. And first of all, first off, even if a judge
[29:49.520 --> 29:55.480]  is corrupt, he's still a human. And humans care about their children.
[29:55.480 --> 30:01.320]  All right, we will be right back. This is the rule of law.
[30:01.320 --> 30:09.520]  Vermont Governor Peter Shumlin isn't known to shirk a political fight, but he beat a hasty
[30:09.520 --> 30:13.840]  retreat when a different kind of opponent showed up in his backyard. But Dr.
[30:13.840 --> 30:18.240]  Catherine Albrecht, in a moment, I'll tell you what had the governor running scared.
[30:18.240 --> 30:23.400]  Privacy is under attack. When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back
[30:23.400 --> 30:27.760]  again. And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to
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[30:51.880 --> 30:56.720]  bears in the yard? My answer, check the locks and dive back under the covers. But
[30:56.720 --> 31:01.560]  Vermont's governor, Peter Shumlin, is no city boy. When he saw four bears feasting
[31:01.560 --> 31:05.920]  on the bird feeders outside his Montpelier home, he yelled out the window.
[31:05.920 --> 31:11.160]  When that didn't work, he tried shooing the bears away. Finally, naked to his toes,
[31:11.160 --> 31:16.480]  he went outside to rescue his feeders. Mama Bear was not amused. She chased the
[31:16.480 --> 31:21.240]  bear-bottomed governor right back inside, then returned to her snack. I guess bears,
[31:21.240 --> 31:25.960]  like many of us, ignore the hand-waving of politicians. I'm Dr. Katherine Albrecht
[31:25.960 --> 31:32.320]  for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine. This is Building
[31:32.320 --> 31:37.160]  7, a 47-story skyscraper that fell on the afternoon of September 11th. The
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[34:28.000 --> 34:32.000]  Okay, folks, we are back. This is the rule of law. Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[34:32.000 --> 34:36.000]  here. We are here with Ms. Mary, and we are discussing the situation. She is able
[34:36.000 --> 34:41.000]  to stay with us a bit longer, and we are discussing the issue of the child support
[34:41.000 --> 34:47.000]  at this point. Ken has some comments to make, but just to go over briefly the
[34:47.000 --> 34:51.000]  scenario of the child support, just to lay out the groundwork here so everyone
[34:51.000 --> 34:56.000]  understands because it might seem like a bit of a complicated situation. The
[34:56.000 --> 35:03.000]  mother had full custody of the child while she was alive. She was married to
[35:03.000 --> 35:08.000]  someone who was not the biological father. The biological father was paying
[35:08.000 --> 35:15.000]  the mother child support, but the stepfather never adopted the child. He was
[35:15.000 --> 35:19.000]  just the stepfather. So when the biological mother died, went to be with the
[35:19.000 --> 35:28.000]  Lord, at that point the court awarded the stepfather temporary custody to the
[35:28.000 --> 35:35.000]  stepfather. And now the grandmother has temporary custody. But that doesn't
[35:35.000 --> 35:39.000]  change the fact that the biological father is still supposed to be paying child
[35:39.000 --> 35:41.000]  support. It doesn't matter who it goes to. He's still supposed to be paying
[35:41.000 --> 35:47.000]  because it's his biological daughter. And from my understanding, it is the
[35:47.000 --> 35:51.000]  stepfather's responsibility or was the stepfather's responsibility to notify
[35:51.000 --> 35:56.000]  the attorney general's office that he no longer had custody. Because if he's
[35:56.000 --> 36:01.000]  been receiving child support from the attorney general's office and he doesn't
[36:01.000 --> 36:05.000]  have the child anymore, I just don't see how he could be held harmless in that
[36:05.000 --> 36:10.000]  matter, especially if he's not forwarding the funds to whoever does have custody.
[36:10.000 --> 36:15.000]  But Ken, you have some comments on that. Please explain.
[36:15.000 --> 36:20.000]  Right. The issue here is this is all temporary orders. If these orders have
[36:20.000 --> 36:25.000]  been signed, there must have been a hearing and what we don't know is whether
[36:25.000 --> 36:29.000]  or not the issue of support and where the support payments were going or who
[36:29.000 --> 36:34.000]  they need to go to was discussed at the hearing, then we don't know what the
[36:34.000 --> 36:38.000]  orders completely say about the issue of child support at this moment. Now that
[36:38.000 --> 36:43.000]  doesn't mean that the court can't go back and retroactively order repayment of
[36:43.000 --> 36:47.000]  all that child support that was gotten by the father. I mean it was paid by the
[36:47.000 --> 36:51.000]  father that was received by the stepfather improperly and they'll rate
[36:51.000 --> 36:58.000]  those back in, okay? But the fact that he wasn't specifically ordered not to get
[36:58.000 --> 37:04.000]  them, he may not be criminally liable for that. Now the Social Security is a
[37:04.000 --> 37:08.000]  separate issue. If there's statutes on the book that says you're not allowed to
[37:08.000 --> 37:13.000]  collect this if you don't have the child, then he has an obligation to tell it.
[37:13.000 --> 37:18.000]  But I'm not familiar with any part of the family code, I could be mistaken, that
[37:18.000 --> 37:23.000]  says that once you don't have the child, you have to report it to the Attorney
[37:23.000 --> 37:29.000]  General's office. What has to happen is a motion before the court which has
[37:29.000 --> 37:34.000]  continuing exclusive jurisdiction over custody of the child and then the judge
[37:34.000 --> 37:39.000]  there has got to make the determination. But Ken, isn't it fraud, either which
[37:39.000 --> 37:45.000]  way you slice it, for him, for the stepdad to be cashing checks from the
[37:45.000 --> 37:50.000]  Attorney General's office for taking care of the child when he doesn't have
[37:50.000 --> 37:55.000]  custody anymore? I mean isn't that some kind of fraud? Yeah, it could be
[37:55.000 --> 37:59.000]  construed as fraud, but the problem is is the argument in the defense is the
[37:59.000 --> 38:03.000]  fact that the court hasn't ordered it to be turned over somewhere else. The
[38:03.000 --> 38:08.000]  court needed to order it be the Attorney General's office to send the payments
[38:08.000 --> 38:13.000]  to the grandmother now instead of to the stepfather. Okay, I understand. So at
[38:13.000 --> 38:19.000]  this point what needs to happen is Ms. Mary needs to go ahead and file for
[38:19.000 --> 38:25.000]  permanent custody and at that point as part of the deal she needs to be asking
[38:25.000 --> 38:32.000]  for basically the child support retroactively as of October. Right, Ms.
[38:32.000 --> 38:40.000]  Mary having supported the child herself has a right to any support for the
[38:40.000 --> 38:46.000]  child that somebody else has received. If somebody else receives support for the
[38:46.000 --> 38:50.000]  child and they knew full well they were not supporting the child as somebody
[38:50.000 --> 38:58.000]  else was, this may not ring in criminal, but it'll certainly ring in equity.
[38:58.000 --> 39:04.000]  Right. And if I've learned anything about law in all the years of researching,
[39:04.000 --> 39:11.000]  if something doesn't seem right it's probably not. If things ought to be a
[39:11.000 --> 39:17.000]  certain way, they probably are. It's just a matter of finding the law that states
[39:17.000 --> 39:24.000]  it that way. We have a very well structured corpus juris body of law. So
[39:24.000 --> 39:32.000]  you can depend on what rings correct in the mind. Okay, well, Randy, let me ask
[39:32.000 --> 39:40.000]  you guys. Hello? Let me get this last thing. She can make a temporary motion
[39:40.000 --> 39:46.000]  to modify the support now and ask for it immediately and ask for it all to be
[39:46.000 --> 39:52.000]  raked back in and paid to her subsequent to her getting custody. That's a good
[39:52.000 --> 39:57.000]  point. She could make a motion to amend the temporary custody without having to
[39:57.000 --> 40:01.000]  go through the full permanent custody filing at this point. Good point. And if
[40:01.000 --> 40:07.000]  she's indigent she should be able to ask for court appointed counsel. Yes, that is
[40:07.000 --> 40:12.000]  true. And she could ask for it retroactively as of October, which leads
[40:12.000 --> 40:18.000]  into my next question, which is, okay, concerning the issue of Social Security,
[40:18.000 --> 40:22.000]  if Social Security's been paying, you know, to the wrong, sending the check to
[40:22.000 --> 40:27.000]  the wrong address and the stepfather has been cashing it fraudulently, that's
[40:27.000 --> 40:32.000]  Social Security problems, administration's problem, not hers, they still have to
[40:32.000 --> 40:37.000]  pay her and it's Social Security administration's responsibility to collect
[40:37.000 --> 40:41.000]  the money back from the stepfather. Is that the same with the Attorney General
[40:41.000 --> 40:46.000]  and the child support or once the Attorney General has transferred that child
[40:46.000 --> 40:51.000]  support to the wrong person, is the Attorney General basically washed their
[40:51.000 --> 40:55.000]  hands of the situation and now it's Mary's responsibility to collect it from
[40:55.000 --> 41:00.000]  the stepfather or will the Attorney General basically have to pay twice, so to
[41:00.000 --> 41:03.000]  speak, like the Social Security administration would and then the Attorney
[41:03.000 --> 41:07.000]  General would have to recoup it back from the stepdad, how would that work for the
[41:07.000 --> 41:13.000]  child support? You're asking me? Both of y'all. Go ahead, Ken, first. Okay.
[41:13.000 --> 41:20.000]  Here's, if there's statutory law that requires, chances are they're not going to
[41:20.000 --> 41:25.000]  charge him criminally unless there's statutory law that required him to
[41:25.000 --> 41:29.000]  notify, and of course you don't know what he may have received in the mail from
[41:29.000 --> 41:33.000]  them in the interim, okay? There may have been an exchange of mail between Social
[41:33.000 --> 41:38.000]  Security and the Attorney General in which he didn't answer, he remained silent
[41:38.000 --> 41:43.000]  where he had a duty to speak, okay? But we don't know about that. So if those
[41:43.000 --> 41:48.000]  documents happen, then the issue of fraud starts to reign supreme then, it
[41:48.000 --> 41:53.000]  becomes a big issue. But in either event, the argument can be made just like you
[41:53.000 --> 41:58.000]  laid it out, Deborah, about the Attorney General will have to pay her and it's
[41:58.000 --> 42:03.000]  up to them to get the money back from the person who fraudulently cashed them.
[42:03.000 --> 42:09.000]  I suspect how they will do it is if he pays it back immediately, there will be
[42:09.000 --> 42:14.000]  no criminal charges. It's one of those, oops, we made a mistake and he pays it
[42:14.000 --> 42:19.000]  back, no harm, no foul type of deal. But if he can't pay it back, they will
[42:19.000 --> 42:24.000]  probably then go after him for criminal for fraud because once they notified him
[42:24.000 --> 42:29.000]  that he needed to correct this and it wasn't his money, then he essentially
[42:29.000 --> 42:31.000]  committed embezzlement.
[42:31.000 --> 42:36.000]  Wow, okay, okay. So in either case, whether it's the Social Security or the
[42:36.000 --> 42:41.000]  child support, where Ms. Mary is in a situation where those government
[42:41.000 --> 42:48.000]  entities basically have to pay her retroactively all the way back to October
[42:48.000 --> 42:53.000]  as far as the child support if anything came in and the Social Security checks
[42:53.000 --> 42:57.000]  for sure and then those government entities will then go after the
[42:57.000 --> 43:04.000]  stepfather to recoup the money and if he doesn't pay it at that point, then he
[43:04.000 --> 43:09.000]  is probably going to be facing criminal charges on both counts.
[43:09.000 --> 43:15.000]  The first thing is the custody, the care of the child. That's everybody's
[43:15.000 --> 43:21.000]  first interest. Nobody wants this child to be harmed because somebody in
[43:21.000 --> 43:28.000]  government was doing some dance around, dance around over particularities in
[43:28.000 --> 43:33.000]  law. First they want to take care of the child and that's so that no politics
[43:33.000 --> 43:38.000]  comes back at them. Once they've taken care of the child, they can go beat up
[43:38.000 --> 43:45.000]  the stepfather, the husband. They can beat them up all they want to as long as
[43:45.000 --> 43:47.000]  that child is taken care of.
[43:47.000 --> 43:51.000]  Okay, listen, we're about to go to break. This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton,
[43:51.000 --> 43:55.000]  Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens. We're here with Ms. Mary and Ken Magnuson.
[43:55.000 --> 43:57.000]  We will be right back.
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[46:01.000 --> 46:14.000]  MUSIC
[46:14.000 --> 46:20.000]  If he's not having a problem, where are you going to look for one?
[46:20.000 --> 46:26.000]  If he could not wait any longer, would your purpose be done?
[46:26.000 --> 46:32.000]  Would you stand around a soldier or warrior unloved scuffling that keeps his peace?
[46:32.000 --> 46:37.000]  All they're taking is a misunderstanding if somebody calls the police.
[46:37.000 --> 47:02.000]  Why don't the sparks fly?
[47:02.000 --> 47:07.000]  The friction is an addiction. The hard work can leave you cold as nails.
[47:07.000 --> 47:13.000]  There's a possibility torture could be. Heavy loads of safe and unscathed.
[47:13.000 --> 47:19.000]  The time is colliding with the concrete. You find out after a while.
[47:19.000 --> 47:24.000]  It's not your moral standards. It's your patience that's on trial.
[47:24.000 --> 47:53.000]  Why don't the sparks fly?
[47:53.000 --> 48:07.000]  MUSIC
[48:07.000 --> 48:10.000]  Okay, we are back. This is the rule of law. Sorry for the extended break.
[48:10.000 --> 48:15.000]  This is Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens. We're here with Ms. Mary and Ken Magnuson.
[48:15.000 --> 48:23.000]  And we're trying to sort out the situation with the custody.
[48:23.000 --> 48:27.000]  And Ken, you had some questions. Go ahead, please.
[48:27.000 --> 48:30.000]  Right. It doesn't look like the court's done anything.
[48:30.000 --> 48:36.000]  So the couple of questions I have to ask is where did your daughter live with the child before she died?
[48:36.000 --> 48:38.000]  What county?
[48:38.000 --> 48:45.000]  She lived in Saginaw, which is outside of Fort Worth.
[48:45.000 --> 48:46.000]  Tarrant County.
[48:46.000 --> 48:50.000]  Right. So that's Tarrant County. All right. So she lived in Tarrant County. All right.
[48:50.000 --> 48:54.000]  And the father lived in, you're saying Denton County is where he got that thing notarized, right?
[48:54.000 --> 48:58.000]  Yeah. He said State of Texas County of Denton. Yeah.
[48:58.000 --> 49:02.000]  Denton, right. Okay. So all this is a power of attorney and he gave you custody.
[49:02.000 --> 49:04.000]  There's been no court action on this.
[49:04.000 --> 49:09.000]  That's why no orders have been issued changing child support for Social Security.
[49:09.000 --> 49:14.000]  And I'm going to suggest if you do anything with Social Security or the Attorney General's office,
[49:14.000 --> 49:19.000]  whatever you do, take notes with them when you call them on the phone.
[49:19.000 --> 49:23.000]  Then you're going to need to write an official letter and mail it.
[49:23.000 --> 49:26.000]  And I would mail that letter certified mail.
[49:26.000 --> 49:27.000]  Okay.
[49:27.000 --> 49:34.000]  So you've got a receipt telling them that when your daughter died, I would attach the death certificate.
[49:34.000 --> 49:37.000]  And then I would just lay out the situation.
[49:37.000 --> 49:42.000]  When she died, how long you've had custody, I sent a copy of the power of attorney.
[49:42.000 --> 49:45.000]  Copy. Never send any original documents.
[49:45.000 --> 49:51.000]  And then ask for them to correct the situation with regard to the child support.
[49:51.000 --> 49:54.000]  They may file a motion on their own.
[49:54.000 --> 49:57.000]  But I suspect you're going to, where do you live?
[49:57.000 --> 50:00.000]  I live in North Dallas. I live in Dallas.
[50:00.000 --> 50:01.000]  Okay.
[50:01.000 --> 50:04.000]  I'm basically trying to get the Social Security.
[50:04.000 --> 50:07.000]  Child support I don't even care about.
[50:07.000 --> 50:09.000]  Because I don't know if he's doing a child support.
[50:09.000 --> 50:12.000]  I'm trying to get the Social Security.
[50:12.000 --> 50:15.000]  The Social Security check is there.
[50:15.000 --> 50:17.000]  He has four of the kids and they all have a kid.
[50:17.000 --> 50:19.000]  Those are his kids.
[50:19.000 --> 50:22.000]  She's not getting a dime and he's getting the co-security.
[50:22.000 --> 50:25.000]  Okay. Hold on here. I'm getting it.
[50:25.000 --> 50:30.000]  My spidey sense is beginning to tingle.
[50:30.000 --> 50:33.000]  Who gave you custody?
[50:33.000 --> 50:36.000]  Was it the stepfather or the court?
[50:36.000 --> 50:39.000]  Yeah. He had no choice.
[50:39.000 --> 50:40.000]  No.
[50:40.000 --> 50:44.000]  Stepfather or court?
[50:44.000 --> 50:46.000]  Stepfather power of attorney.
[50:46.000 --> 50:52.000]  He was temporary power of attorney.
[50:52.000 --> 50:58.000]  But what happened, because she had to get out of that house for certain reasons,
[50:58.000 --> 51:02.000]  they gave her, they gave me temporary custody.
[51:02.000 --> 51:06.000]  Wait a minute. You said they gave me. Who was that?
[51:06.000 --> 51:07.000]  He did.
[51:07.000 --> 51:10.000]  Well, he did. He had no choice.
[51:10.000 --> 51:13.000]  So the court hasn't been involved in this?
[51:13.000 --> 51:19.000]  Well, yes and no. There's another aspect to the story that hasn't been quite explained yet.
[51:19.000 --> 51:22.000]  But Mary can say what she wants about it.
[51:22.000 --> 51:24.000]  I don't want to say too much.
[51:24.000 --> 51:28.000]  But there was a situation at the home.
[51:28.000 --> 51:33.000]  Apparently, some social workers had to intervene.
[51:33.000 --> 51:34.000]  The police?
[51:34.000 --> 51:35.000]  Everybody had to intervene.
[51:35.000 --> 51:36.000]  The police, everybody.
[51:36.000 --> 51:37.000]  They had to intervene and everything.
[51:37.000 --> 51:40.000]  Yeah, because of, well, suffice it to say,
[51:40.000 --> 51:44.000]  a bad situation that was not in the best interest of the children.
[51:44.000 --> 51:52.000]  And so as a result of all of this, the stepfather was forced by these various.
[51:52.000 --> 51:53.000]  And put in jail.
[51:53.000 --> 51:57.000]  Okay. That makes my spidey sense stop teeming so much.
[51:57.000 --> 52:02.000]  And so he was basically forced by some, I guess, some social workers
[52:02.000 --> 52:08.000]  or maybe possibly the court was involved to voluntarily relinquish custody
[52:08.000 --> 52:11.000]  to the grandmother of his stepdaughter.
[52:11.000 --> 52:12.000]  Okay.
[52:12.000 --> 52:16.000]  Because he was in jail and he's going back to jail.
[52:16.000 --> 52:20.000]  Okay. What I was looking for is your legal standing to make a claim.
[52:20.000 --> 52:22.000]  Can that sit right there?
[52:22.000 --> 52:25.000]  And that kind of allays my concern.
[52:25.000 --> 52:29.000]  Now you have, you seem to have the legal standing to make the claim.
[52:29.000 --> 52:36.000]  He can't be in contact with her until she's 18 years old.
[52:36.000 --> 52:40.000]  So she can never go back there.
[52:40.000 --> 52:44.000]  He is not, the stepfather is not allowed to be in contact with his stepdaughter
[52:44.000 --> 52:46.000]  until after she's 18, is what she said.
[52:46.000 --> 52:47.000]  Yes.
[52:47.000 --> 52:51.000]  Okay. And this sounds a little bit more serious.
[52:51.000 --> 52:57.000]  So this would indicate that you have much stronger standing.
[52:57.000 --> 53:05.000]  Without a court order, then that's why my concern was that you may not have standing,
[53:05.000 --> 53:09.000]  but it sounds like you do have the standing to make these claims.
[53:09.000 --> 53:14.000]  So, you know, I'd hate to ask you to make the claims when you didn't have standing.
[53:14.000 --> 53:18.000]  Well, and I have a feeling that there were some court orders involved,
[53:18.000 --> 53:22.000]  but it just may not be the type of court order that we were thinking of at first,
[53:22.000 --> 53:26.000]  which was a family court, temporary custody order.
[53:26.000 --> 53:30.000]  There was probably some other court orders in a different court,
[53:30.000 --> 53:35.000]  basically ordering him to relinquish custody or what I imagine.
[53:35.000 --> 53:38.000]  Let me ask Ken a question.
[53:38.000 --> 53:50.000]  Ken, where something unsavory has gone down and the law enforcement agencies
[53:50.000 --> 54:00.000]  and other child protective services and such broker a deal for change of custody,
[54:00.000 --> 54:05.000]  how well will that stand up before a court?
[54:05.000 --> 54:07.000]  He just dropped, Randy, unfortunately.
[54:07.000 --> 54:09.000]  I know that's a really important question.
[54:09.000 --> 54:11.000]  But is that a relevant question, Mary?
[54:11.000 --> 54:16.000]  Well, I mean, I don't want to ask too much that you don't want to mention on the air,
[54:16.000 --> 54:21.000]  but let me just try to frame the question this way.
[54:21.000 --> 54:29.000]  Do you know if there was any kind of court order by any court ordering him
[54:29.000 --> 54:32.000]  to give power of attorney to you or was there?
[54:32.000 --> 54:33.000]  There was.
[54:33.000 --> 54:34.000]  Okay.
[54:34.000 --> 54:40.000]  So this wasn't just kind of a deal that was brokered by law enforcement and CPS or something?
[54:40.000 --> 54:41.000]  Yeah.
[54:41.000 --> 54:42.000]  Okay.
[54:42.000 --> 54:44.000]  So there was a court order.
[54:44.000 --> 54:45.000]  Wonderful.
[54:45.000 --> 54:46.000]  That's what we do.
[54:46.000 --> 54:49.000]  Do you have a copy of that court order, Mary?
[54:49.000 --> 54:50.000]  Yes, I do.
[54:50.000 --> 55:01.000]  First, I've got another paper in the mail about a month ago saying something about that he can ever be in her life again.
[55:01.000 --> 55:02.000]  Okay.
[55:02.000 --> 55:04.000]  Never be in her life again.
[55:04.000 --> 55:05.000]  Okay.
[55:05.000 --> 55:06.000]  So there is a court order.
[55:06.000 --> 55:09.000]  It's just not a family court order.
[55:09.000 --> 55:10.000]  No.
[55:09.000 --> 55:10.000]  Okay.
[55:10.000 --> 55:11.000]  Got it.
[55:11.000 --> 55:12.000]  Got it.
[55:12.000 --> 55:13.000]  Okay.
[55:13.000 --> 55:16.000]  So that answers your question.
[55:16.000 --> 55:19.000]  Now my fighting sense is not tingling.
[55:19.000 --> 55:20.000]  Okay.
[55:20.000 --> 55:23.000]  So the question for Ken is irrelevant at this point.
[55:23.000 --> 55:28.000]  There's no deal that was brokered by a prosecutor or CPS or law enforcement.
[55:28.000 --> 55:29.000]  There was a court order.
[55:29.000 --> 55:30.000]  Okay.
[55:30.000 --> 55:40.000]  And for those listening, if there was a deal brokered with the police, child protective services, then possibly a prosecutor, but not necessarily.
[55:40.000 --> 55:51.000]  If there's a equitable deal established, that's going to have standing before the court because the court is going to listen to the police first.
[55:51.000 --> 55:56.000]  They're going to listen to child protective services second.
[55:56.000 --> 56:03.000]  They're going to listen to you third to actually listen to the parents third and to you fourth.
[56:03.000 --> 56:05.000]  And then the child.
[56:05.000 --> 56:11.000]  Yeah. So, but if there's a court order, then that trumps everything.
[56:11.000 --> 56:12.000]  There you go.
[56:12.000 --> 56:13.000]  There you have it.
[56:13.000 --> 56:17.000]  I wish Ken would call back in perhaps his cell phone battery.
[56:17.000 --> 56:20.000]  He kept saying, he kept calling the guy.
[56:20.000 --> 56:21.000]  What's the guy's name?
[56:21.000 --> 56:23.000]  He said it about six times when he went in.
[56:23.000 --> 56:24.000]  So he kept calling.
[56:24.000 --> 56:25.000]  What's his name?
[56:25.000 --> 56:26.000]  Randy.
[56:26.000 --> 56:27.000]  He kept saying Randy.
[56:27.000 --> 56:28.000]  Yeah.
[56:28.000 --> 56:29.000]  Randy didn't hear him.
[56:29.000 --> 56:30.000]  Yeah.
[56:30.000 --> 56:34.000]  So he probably got upset and just hung up.
[56:34.000 --> 56:37.000]  Well, we're about to go to break.
[56:37.000 --> 56:38.000]  Social Security.
[56:38.000 --> 56:39.000]  Yeah.
[56:39.000 --> 56:40.000]  Yeah.
[56:40.000 --> 56:41.000]  Well, we'll contact Ken on the break.
[56:41.000 --> 56:45.000]  We're about to go to break and we'll get him back on so we can discuss this further.
[56:45.000 --> 56:59.000]  But yeah, as Mary was saying, and I do want to go over this child support issue because, Mary, it sounds like you are in a position that you could receive court appointed counsel,
[56:59.000 --> 57:06.000]  a court appointed counsel to basically represent you in the custody case.
[57:06.000 --> 57:23.000]  Because as we were saying earlier, Ken was saying earlier, you could file a motion to amend the temporary orders in order to have the child support directed to you and the back child support retroactively to October if any had come in.
[57:23.000 --> 57:30.000]  Okay. That motion needs to be filed even before you file for permanent custody.
[57:30.000 --> 57:32.000]  And Social Security.
[57:32.000 --> 57:38.000]  But the point is you could get court appointed counsel to represent you for that in the child support.
[57:38.000 --> 57:47.000]  And as far as the Social Security, I think that all you need to do is contact the Social Security Administration directly and send them all these court documents.
[57:47.000 --> 57:51.000]  Is that right, Randy?
[57:51.000 --> 57:58.000]  Yeah, the Social Security will be pretty good about making sure the money they're paying out goes in right.
[57:58.000 --> 58:01.000]  Wouldn't his lawyer tell him that?
[58:01.000 --> 58:10.000]  No, because his lawyer knows he's not paying me. I know his lawyer. His lawyer was my daughter's lawyer for 15, for 14 years.
[58:10.000 --> 58:19.000]  Well, look, keep in mind that lawyers, and we'll go over this some more on the other side, they like to do what's called milking their clients.
[58:19.000 --> 58:30.000]  Okay, which means they'll string them along and string them along and string them along and withhold information just so that they can what's called churning the case to keep it going to get money out of their clients.
[58:30.000 --> 58:33.000]  He got $27,000 out of my daughter.
[58:33.000 --> 58:34.000]  Yeah, so no, he's not going to necessarily.
[58:34.000 --> 58:35.000]  He kept bringing it on, yeah.
[58:35.000 --> 58:37.000]  Yeah, your own attorney is your worst enemy.
[58:37.000 --> 58:39.000]  Listen, we're about to go to break in 10 seconds.
[58:39.000 --> 58:44.000]  Mary, can you stay on with us a little bit longer so we can talk some more?
[58:44.000 --> 58:45.000]  A few more.
[58:45.000 --> 58:50.000]  Okay, all right, we'll be right back, folks.
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[59:53.000 --> 01:00:03.000]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com.
[01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:09.000]  This is the Liberty Beat, your daily source for Liberty news and activist updates, online at thelibertybeat.com.
[01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:14.000]  I'm Brian Hagan with your Liberty Beat for Thursday, January 22, 2015.
[01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:22.000]  Gold is trading at $1,290, silver at $18.14, and Bitcoin is trading around $230.75.
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[01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:36.000]  The Liberty Beat is hosting a fundraiser to send journalists to New York City to cover the entirety of the Ross Ulberg trial.
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[01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:58.000]  In the news, day five in the Ross Ulberg trial saw the prosecution call computer scientist and FBI agent Tom Kiernan to the witness stand.
[01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:04.000]  Kiernan led the October 1, 2013 arrest of Ulberg at Glen Park Library in San Francisco.
[01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:10.000]  During the arrest, plainclothes FBI agent swiped Ulberg's laptop and quickly handed it off to Agent Kiernan.
[01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:19.000]  Among the files on the laptop revealed to the jury were detailed journal logs dating back to 2010, when the Silk Road was just an idea for an economic experiment.
[01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:29.000]  The journals document much more than that, however, sharing intimate details about Silk Road's day-to-day operation, including staff changes, hosting issues, and growing pains.
[01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:33.000]  They also show a tour chat about how to deal with vendors who break the rules.
[01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:43.000]  That chat was between the Dread Pirate Roberts and a user called DigitalAlchemy, in which the Dread Pirate Roberts wrote, quote, Are you ready to become judge, jury, and executioner?
[01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:55.000]  After yesterday's testimony, the defense is facing an uphill battle, convincing the jury of the narrative presented in their opening statement that Ulberg created Silk Road, but he did not manage it or operate the site throughout his lifetime.
[01:01:55.000 --> 01:02:01.000]  The jury will get to decide for themselves when the defense cross-examines Agent Kiernan today.
[01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:05.000]  Stay tuned to LibertyB.com for regular updates.
[01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:19.000]  Today's edition of LibertyB is brought to you by eFoodsDirect.com. Extreme weather, from droughts lasting for weeks and torrential rainstorms robbing the country of vital crops for food, to snowstorms of 70 inches plus stopping cities in their tracks.
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[01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:52.000]  This is the Liberty Beat for Thursday, January 22, 2015.
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[01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:28.000]  Okay, we are back.
[01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.000]  This is the rule of law, hour two.
[01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:33.000]  I'm Deborah Stevens here with Randy Kelton.
[01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:36.000]  We have Ken Magnuson back on the line and we're still with Ms. Mary.
[01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.000]  We are wrapping this up and then we'll be taking your calls.
[01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:46.000]  Again, before we get back into this child support issue, Ken has some more comments on this, some really good ideas.
[01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:52.000]  But just to wrap up, Ms. Mary's primary concern, which is getting the Social Security check.
[01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:58.000]  Because from what I understand, and I have a feeling, well, number one, the Social Security check is a sure thing, okay?
[01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:03.000]  And number two, it's probably a much larger amount than the child support anyway.
[01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:12.000]  So that is the primary concern and that, from what I understand so far tonight, is the easiest problem to solve.
[01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:17.000]  Thankfully, she doesn't need an attorney. She doesn't need a court-appointed attorney.
[01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:19.000]  She doesn't need to deal with the family courts.
[01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:23.000]  She doesn't need to deal with, you know, anything like that.
[01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:27.000]  All she needs to do is tell the, yes, Ken?
[01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:35.000]  Okay, there may be an issue with the family courts because Social Security may want a copy of the order giving her custody,
[01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:42.000]  which is essentially at this point is the power of attorney that's been signed over.
[01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:43.000]  Okay, wait a minute.
[01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:44.000]  And that should do it.
[01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.000]  Okay, but yes.
[01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:50.000]  And that's what I was just about to say, that she'll need to write a letter,
[01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:56.000]  send it certified to the Social Security Administration with a copy of this power of attorney.
[01:05:56.000 --> 01:06:04.000]  But also, Ken, some more information came out when you had dropped off, which there actually is a court order regarding the custody.
[01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:07.000]  It's just not a family court order.
[01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:08.000]  It's criminal.
[01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.000]  Yes, apparently it's a criminal court.
[01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:11.000]  Yes.
[01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:17.000]  Okay, where a criminal court ordered the stepfather to relinquish custody to the grandmother.
[01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:19.000]  So she should probably include that too.
[01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:20.000]  Yes.
[01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:29.000]  Okay, so that's really all you should need to do, Ms. Mary, to retroactively receive all the Social Security checks
[01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:34.000]  for your granddaughter since October and to be receiving them from now on.
[01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:38.000]  So that should be an easy enough problem to solve.
[01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:42.000]  And if he doesn't pay back Social Security Administration,
[01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.000]  then they're going to go after him with the U.S. Attorney Department of Justice.
[01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:46.000]  Go ahead, Randy.
[01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:47.000]  Okay.
[01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:50.000]  Yes, that raises a question for me for Ken.
[01:06:50.000 --> 01:07:00.000]  A criminal court order for custody, how is that different from a civil?
[01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.000]  What kind of weight does that carry?
[01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:09.000]  Can you explain the difference between that, Ken?
[01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:15.000]  Yes, the issue is not that they're giving him custody, they're giving her custody.
[01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:20.000]  They're just making him surrender custody because of the criminal action against him.
[01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:23.000]  This is not a child support or custody issue.
[01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:26.000]  This is just whether or not he's allowed to have custody.
[01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:31.000]  And the criminal court is saying based on what took place, he cannot have custody.
[01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:35.000]  Now, I haven't seen the order, but that's what I suspect it says.
[01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:37.000]  Is that about what it says, Mary?
[01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:42.000]  I would assume that that would have some really serious damage.
[01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:51.000]  I was seeing last month something else saying that he's been found guilty.
[01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:52.000]  He's been found guilty.
[01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:53.000]  Oh, whatever.
[01:07:53.000 --> 01:08:00.000]  So he's going to go to prison so he can't have custody of the child while he's in prison.
[01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:01.000]  No.
[01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:04.000]  Is that the reason that custody was transferred to you?
[01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:08.000]  Yes.
[01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:13.000]  So that should be profound, that's not something that can be challenged, I would think.
[01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:14.000]  Is that right?
[01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:15.000]  Randy?
[01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:20.000]  The custody wasn't ordered transferred by the criminal court.
[01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:24.000]  It was just give him the option to do that.
[01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:31.000]  The issue is that by the power of attorney that he signed, he gave her the right to have custody.
[01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:37.000]  So he surrendered or relinquished his custody voluntarily based on the criminal court saying
[01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:41.000]  he couldn't retain custody because of the criminal charges.
[01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:42.000]  Okay.
[01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:52.000]  So if he's relinquished custody, what duty is upon him to also relinquish access to the
[01:08:52.000 --> 01:09:01.000]  funds distributed by the biological father and by the government for support of the child?
[01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:04.000]  Don't know if there is any, right?
[01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:09.000]  If he spends the money that's not his, once he spends it, he's going to be in trouble.
[01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:14.000]  But if he gets it and then returns it and just says, you get culpa, then there's probably
[01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:16.000]  not going to be anything done.
[01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:21.000]  But if he took it and he knew he shouldn't have it, he can't return it, then they'll
[01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:22.000]  go after him criminally.
[01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:23.000]  Yes.
[01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:26.000]  See, I think this goes back to what Ken was saying earlier.
[01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:34.000]  If there wasn't anything in a court order previously regarding child support or ordering
[01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:41.000]  him to notify Social Security Administration, et cetera, et cetera, then technically he
[01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:45.000]  may not have committed a wrong technically.
[01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:47.000]  It may not be in violation of anything.
[01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:57.000]  But now she goes and she files a motion for modification of the temporary custody and
[01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:02.000]  sends all these documents to Social Security at that point and also notifying the attorney
[01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:03.000]  general.
[01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:11.000]  At that point, now the bell has been rung basically several months after the fact.
[01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:20.000]  So now they're going to go back and say, oh, okay, maybe you were not required to notify
[01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:24.000]  these entities or turn this money over before, but you are required to now.
[01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:28.000]  And you're required to retroactively pay back all this stuff.
[01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:33.000]  And if he does not at that point, then he's in trouble.
[01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:37.000]  So either way, the result is the same.
[01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:43.000]  Ms. Mary is going to get all the money from both of these government entities retroactively.
[01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:46.000]  And if he doesn't pay it back, his ass is grass.
[01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:48.000]  And that's just basically all there is to it.
[01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:49.000]  Now, Ken...
[01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:50.000]  Okay.
[01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:51.000]  This is Ken.
[01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:52.000]  Yep.
[01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:53.000]  This is Ken.
[01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:57.000]  The important thing is when did the child first start living with you in October?
[01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:02.000]  It was like, I think, like in the middle of October.
[01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:03.000]  Okay.
[01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:07.000]  And you're going to have to have a date because that date is very important because you have
[01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:12.000]  to wait six months before you can file the motion to modify and transfer.
[01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:17.000]  It'll have to be originally filed in Tarrant County, but you want to transfer to Dallas
[01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:20.000]  County because that's where you live with the child.
[01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:23.000]  So in other words, I've got to wait six months before I do anything.
[01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:24.000]  No, no, no.
[01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:25.000]  He's just talking about the child support.
[01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:26.000]  No, no, no.
[01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:30.000]  The child support and actual custody order from the family court.
[01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:31.000]  Yeah.
[01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:32.000]  That has nothing to do with the Social Security.
[01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:34.000]  You can do the Social Security right now.
[01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:36.000]  Do the Social Security immediately.
[01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:37.000]  Those are apples and oranges.
[01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:38.000]  Okay.
[01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:39.000]  Okay.
[01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:40.000]  Okay.
[01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:45.000]  But I know the lady did tell me it'd be five or six months before I could file for poor
[01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:46.000]  custody.
[01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:47.000]  That's true.
[01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:57.000]  Now, Ken, what is the likelihood that she will be able to get the custody case transferred
[01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:00.000]  to Dallas County from Tarrant County?
[01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:07.000]  Oh, once the child has lived, there's an affidavit that has to be filed under the rule to transfer
[01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:08.000]  a case.
[01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:13.000]  You file a motion to modify, motion to transfer at the same time, and an affidavit is filed
[01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:18.000]  stating that the child has lived at a specific address in Dallas County for a period of six
[01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:19.000]  months.
[01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:23.000]  And then you put the starting date, and you put the date that you file this, and you make
[01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:25.000]  sure that six months is expired.
[01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:27.000]  So all you need is six months and one day.
[01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:30.000]  And then she can have the case...
[01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:32.000]  And that's mandatory.
[01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:33.000]  There's no discretion.
[01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:36.000]  The judge has to transfer the case to Dallas County.
[01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:37.000]  Okay.
[01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:42.000]  So Ken, you're recommending that she wait that six months...regarding anything to do
[01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:48.000]  with custody or modifying the temporary custody or anything like that before she does anything
[01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:56.000]  in the custody case at all, she should wait the six months and transfer the case to Dallas
[01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:59.000]  County first because Tarrant County is so corrupt.
[01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.000]  Is that what you're saying?
[01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:02.000]  Yes.
[01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:03.000]  Okay, great.
[01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:10.000]  Now, she can talk to West Texas Legal Services or whatever and see what they say, but the
[01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:17.000]  issue is that Tarrant County is just absolutely a mess, legally speaking, in custody cases
[01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:21.000]  and family law cases of our particular source subject.
[01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:27.000]  And the issue is that to avoid the problems that Tarrant County might bring, you only
[01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:29.000]  have a month and a half to wait.
[01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:30.000]  Well, two months.
[01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:31.000]  Well, yeah.
[01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:32.000]  And then...
[01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:33.000]  It's the end of January.
[01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:38.000]  You've got to wait until middle of the latter part of March.
[01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:41.000]  And there's another issue here regarding venue.
[01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:44.000]  I mean, she lives in Dallas County.
[01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:47.000]  She has to support her granddaughter.
[01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:49.000]  The granddaughter is there.
[01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:56.000]  It would be a hardship, a burden for Mary to have to travel to Tarrant County to go
[01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:57.000]  to hearing.
[01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:58.000]  It's irrelevant.
[01:13:58.000 --> 01:13:59.000]  Et cetera, et cetera.
[01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:00.000]  It's irrelevant.
[01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:01.000]  It's irrelevant.
[01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:05.000]  The reason to transfer is only based on where the child lives.
[01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:08.000]  She has a power of attorney.
[01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:10.000]  The power of attorney has been executed.
[01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:14.000]  So, she has had the child for six months in Dallas County.
[01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:18.000]  Dallas County has continuing exclusive jurisdiction.
[01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:21.000]  The case must get transferred from Tarrant County.
[01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:24.000]  The reason why is nothing.
[01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:29.000]  The reasons other than the fact that the child lives in Dallas County are irrelevant to statutory
[01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:31.000]  law for Texas.
[01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:33.000]  Well, that's very good news.
[01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:35.000]  That's very good news.
[01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:39.000]  So, Mary, the bottom line is you're sitting pretty here.
[01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:45.000]  You can go ahead and move forward with the Social Security Administration immediately.
[01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:50.000]  Just write them a letter, send them a certified letter, and enclose copies of all the court
[01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:57.000]  documents, the criminal court order, the power of attorney, all these things, and notify
[01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:04.000]  them that basically when you've had the granddaughter since the certain date on October?
[01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:05.000]  October 12th.
[01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:06.000]  October 12th.
[01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:07.000]  October 12th.
[01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:16.000]  And that you are requesting that they send all the Social Security checks for your granddaughter
[01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:22.000]  retroactively from October forward to your current address.
[01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:25.000]  And that should be the end of the story.
[01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:32.000]  They should be paying you a lump sum, I would imagine, quite quickly on that matter.
[01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:36.000]  And then they're just going to turn around and go after him.
[01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:41.000]  Again, again, again, just again, again, one of the things I want to make sure that you
[01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:44.000]  understand is everything has to be done in writing.
[01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:49.000]  Whatever you send to Social Security, keep a copy of it because a copy of it the attorneys
[01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:53.000]  are going to want to see when you talk to them about custody because they're going
[01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:55.000]  to want to see what you sent to Social Security.
[01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:00.000]  Make sure you keep copies of documents and never give out the originals.
[01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:11.000]  And if you ever talk to any government entity on the phone at all or any lawyer or an opposing
[01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:18.000]  party, if he calls the stepfather or the real father or anybody that is basically not in
[01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:23.000]  your camp, you record that phone conversation and that's perfectly legal.
[01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:26.000]  And if you're not set up to do that, then we'll discuss that offline.
[01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:32.000]  Yes, the lawyer who has this case, he has two lawyers, one who's doing the case and
[01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:34.000]  then he has one for the other one.
[01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:35.000]  So he has two lawyers.
[01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:37.000]  They both have contacts.
[01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:41.000]  Yeah, you record all those conversations with those lawyers from now on.
[01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:42.000]  All right.
[01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:45.000]  Well, Ms. Mary, do you have any other questions for us?
[01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:47.000]  No, I sure don't.
[01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:49.000]  Well, thank you so much.
[01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:51.000]  I'm writing all this down and I appreciate it.
[01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:54.000]  This is all recorded so you can go back and listen to it later.
[01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:57.000]  We appreciate you joining us tonight, Ms. Mary.
[01:16:57.000 --> 01:16:58.000]  Thank you.
[01:16:58.000 --> 01:16:59.000]  Thank you so much.
[01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:00.000]  Thank you.
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[01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:13.000]  This is the Logos Logos Radio Network.
[01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:28.000]  Ain't gonna blind me, don't bore me.
[01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:36.000]  Ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again.
[01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:41.000]  I was blindsided but now I can see your plans.
[01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:46.000]  You put the fear in my pocket, took the money from my hand.
[01:19:46.000 --> 01:20:11.000]  Ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again.
[01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:16.000]  Ain't gonna drive me with that same old sucker pun.
[01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:21.000]  I get it now but then I must have been nothing.
[01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:23.000]  Back then you had me.
[01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:29.000]  Okay, this is the rule of law, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens, and we just finished
[01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:31.000]  talking to Ms. Mary.
[01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:36.000]  And this is a very interesting situation because most of the time we have discussions on the
[01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:43.000]  air about people that have been wronged by government entities, you know, the police,
[01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:49.000]  the prosecutor, the judge, their own attorney, opposing counsel, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:20:49.000 --> 01:20:55.000]  This is a little bit of a different situation where the tables are turned where actually,
[01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:59.000]  you know, the Department of Justice and the Attorney General could actually be your friend.
[01:20:59.000 --> 01:21:02.000]  So kind of interesting situation here.
[01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:06.000]  But I wanted to go over a few things we talked about on the break before Ms. Mary had to
[01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:08.000]  leave.
[01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:11.000]  We were talking, number one, about recording everything.
[01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:13.000]  Number one, doing everything in writing.
[01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:18.000]  But if they call you, well, and I'm speaking to people in Texas particularly and anyone
[01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:24.000]  else who is in a state that has laws similar to ours, record it, okay?
[01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:30.000]  Don't ever say anything to opposing counsel or to the opposing party or any government
[01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:36.000]  entity even if they're on your side as would be the case in this situation without recording
[01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:37.000]  it.
[01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:38.000]  Period.
[01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:40.000]  And go ahead.
[01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:49.000]  This is a good spot to lead into this guy Ken's four rules.
[01:21:49.000 --> 01:21:50.000]  Yes.
[01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:51.000]  Well, hold on.
[01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:55.000]  Before he goes into the four rules, I wanted to mention other thing that he said which
[01:21:55.000 --> 01:22:02.000]  we talked about which is if any of these entities especially opposing parties or opposing
[01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:06.000]  counsels call or write a letter saying that we're going to be sending you some documents
[01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:09.000]  or here's some documents that you have to sign, you don't sign anything.
[01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:15.000]  You don't have to sign anything especially, you know, that they send and you don't sign
[01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:21.000]  anything you don't understand fully and I wouldn't recommend signing anything by any
[01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:23.000]  opposing attorney anyways.
[01:22:23.000 --> 01:22:29.000]  So we just made that clear with Ms. Mary to just be careful about, you know, these entities
[01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:32.000]  sending documents saying you have to sign this, you have to sign that.
[01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:36.000]  So Ken, was there anything else you wanted to add on that matter?
[01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:37.000]  Well, yes.
[01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:44.000]  The biggest issue is that sharp practice by attorneys is always used meaning that if they're
[01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:49.000]  on the opposing side, what might they tell you that would lead you to believe that you
[01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:51.000]  have to do something?
[01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:56.000]  And the issue is that first off if they're going to do anything, if they're saying stuff
[01:22:56.000 --> 01:23:00.000]  verbally and they want to get your permission to do something, don't do it.
[01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:05.000]  Ask them for whatever they're asking for, have them put it in writing and send it to
[01:23:05.000 --> 01:23:10.000]  you and explain the authority under which they get the right to make this demand or
[01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:12.000]  make this request.
[01:23:12.000 --> 01:23:18.000]  Don't assume just because they ask for it that you have any kind of duty to reciprocate
[01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:19.000]  and sign the documents.
[01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:24.000]  I have met more people that have signed documents because the attorney said, oh, here, sign
[01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:27.000]  here, sign here, thank you, and that's it.
[01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:33.000]  If you end up deciding that a document is in your favor and you do decide to sign it,
[01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:35.000]  you want multiple original copies.
[01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:39.000]  You don't want them to send, oh, we'll send you a copy later.
[01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:42.000]  No, you want a copy when you sign it.
[01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:47.000]  If you're going to sign it, you make a copy of it when you sign it and keep a copy.
[01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:53.000]  Always keep a copy of anything that you sign and that leads into what Randy was saying
[01:23:53.000 --> 01:23:56.000]  was the four rules.
[01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:57.000]  Wait a minute.
[01:23:57.000 --> 01:24:00.000]  Important distinction, original.
[01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:09.000]  When someone says original, a reasonable person of ordinary prudence thinks there is only
[01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:11.000]  one.
[01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:13.000]  Not.
[01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:16.000]  Explain that, Ken.
[01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:17.000]  Okay.
[01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:19.000]  There may be multiple original documents.
[01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:25.000]  Any document that has all of the signatures on the same document is an original, so you
[01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:30.000]  could have, bills of lading are one of those common things that have multiple originals.
[01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:31.000]  Everybody gets a copy.
[01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:33.000]  The truck driver gets a copy.
[01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:38.000]  The clerk at the freight company gets a copy.
[01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:42.000]  A copy of it is sent to the delivery address.
[01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:44.000]  They get a copy of it.
[01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:47.000]  The only ones that are originals are the ones that are actually signed.
[01:24:47.000 --> 01:24:54.000]  Now, they may be multiple copies as well, but the originals are the ones that actually
[01:24:54.000 --> 01:25:00.000]  have the actual wet ink signature, as they refer to it, on the document.
[01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:02.000]  So that's how that works.
[01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:05.000]  So you could sit there and sign four, five, six of those.
[01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:06.000]  Right.
[01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:10.000]  And all of those would be originals.
[01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:11.000]  Yes.
[01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:18.000]  When I suggest that people go and get affidavits or jurat signed in order to prepare case material
[01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:24.000]  that they might be doing, I tell them to get three or four extra original jurats.
[01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:31.000]  And a jurat is the part you sign in an affidavit that says that it's you.
[01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:33.000]  That's all a jurat is.
[01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:38.000]  So the idea is if you have multiple, you have multiple originals.
[01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:45.000]  Now, in the advent of electronic filing now, some of this is becoming a little obsolete.
[01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:50.000]  But you've got to pay particular attention to it because we're already aware that some
[01:25:50.000 --> 01:25:53.000]  lawyers out there are falsifying the signatures.
[01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:59.000]  They're not using wet ink signatures for affidavits or even signing the affidavits at all.
[01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:01.000]  They're just attaching them.
[01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:03.000]  So be cognizant of that issue.
[01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:08.000]  But that gets into the details of paying attention to the actual documents you're filing and
[01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:13.000]  why they're being filed and what the requirements are, depending on whether you're in a court
[01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:17.000]  proceeding or an administrative proceeding or something of that.
[01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:22.000]  But that leads back to the discussion that Randy said, which is my core rules.
[01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:24.000]  First one is perception is everything.
[01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:31.000]  How you're perceived and how the world perceives you and how you perceive the world is what matters.
[01:26:31.000 --> 01:26:36.000]  Sometimes the truth enters into this, but frequently people have been blamed or less frequently
[01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:40.000]  credited with something that they didn't do based on perception.
[01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:47.000]  And we can go into an entire dialogue for an hour about perception of what goes on in the world.
[01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:49.000]  Number two is everything is negotiable.
[01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:53.000]  And what I mean is that it's not necessarily means you'll make a deal.
[01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:57.000]  It means that there's always the availability to try to make a better deal.
[01:26:57.000 --> 01:27:02.000]  Kids know this inherently with regards to mommy, can I have a cookie now?
[01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:05.000]  I'll eat two helpings of vegetables at dinner.
[01:27:05.000 --> 01:27:07.000]  That's a negotiation.
[01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:13.000]  Mommy might say no, but frequently mommy will say, okay, two helpings of vegetables.
[01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:14.000]  That'll work.
[01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:15.000]  You can have a cookie now.
[01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:19.000]  And then the child has made the negotiations.
[01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:21.000]  Adults frequently forget this.
[01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:26.000]  Attorneys are notorious for always negotiating something different or better.
[01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:28.000]  They're asking you to change something.
[01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:32.000]  You know, if there's an agreement in place and then they ask you to change something,
[01:27:32.000 --> 01:27:35.000]  it's generally because it's more advantageous to them.
[01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:40.000]  That's why they're making the negotiation or the proposal to change it.
[01:27:40.000 --> 01:27:47.000]  And the only reason you would agree to some change in a process is if it also is mutually advantageous to you.
[01:27:47.000 --> 01:27:49.000]  The third one is document everything.
[01:27:49.000 --> 01:27:51.000]  I can't get over that enough.
[01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:53.000]  You have to have copies of documents.
[01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:56.000]  Debra talks about recording stuff.
[01:27:56.000 --> 01:28:01.000]  Recordings are great, but the recordings are second to documents.
[01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:04.000]  It's much better that if you call somebody or you have them.
[01:28:04.000 --> 01:28:09.000]  You know, now that we've had this discussion, Mr. Smith, please send me a document explaining your position.
[01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:11.000]  I want a copy of the document.
[01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:20.000]  I want, you know, courts and attorneys that are notorious for sharp practices will always call you on the phone
[01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:26.000]  and make a discussion and you'll blurt out something or they'll say something or they'll make you a promise.
[01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:30.000]  They may even act sincere and they'll never reduce it to writing.
[01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:33.000]  And later they'll have a memory lapse.
[01:28:33.000 --> 01:28:36.000]  Oh, no, I don't recall ever calling you.
[01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:37.000]  I have seen this.
[01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:38.000]  I have heard this.
[01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:39.000]  I've been there.
[01:28:39.000 --> 01:28:48.000]  And only when you play them the tape of the conversation do they suddenly get embarrassed about the fact that they got caught lying about the situation.
[01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:50.000]  It's much better to get it in writing.
[01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:51.000]  Yes, absolutely.
[01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:52.000]  That is an excellent point.
[01:28:52.000 --> 01:29:04.000]  When you record the conversation, but you always lead them to send everything that they're proposing in writing because that way they can't squirm out of it.
[01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:12.000]  Because when it comes to audio recordings in court, you generally cannot submit the audio itself into evidence.
[01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:23.000]  What you have to do is transcribe it yourself and then you submit it, the transcription with an affidavit, you know, asserting, testifying that you did record this.
[01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:28.000]  But if it's penned in their own hand, that is, of course, much better.
[01:29:28.000 --> 01:29:29.000]  That's an excellent point.
[01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:37.000]  So you always want to lead them, lure them, if you will, into sending everything to you in writing.
[01:29:37.000 --> 01:29:52.000]  And you can even say things like, well, you know, before I fully commit to what we're discussing here, please send it to me in writing what you're proposing so that I can more better understand what we're saying, what you're talking about.
[01:29:52.000 --> 01:30:04.000]  In all of my experience, I have had one lawyer actually do that.
[01:30:04.000 --> 01:30:11.000]  The government wants to be able to secretly attach GPS to anyone's car and track them without a warrant.
[01:30:11.000 --> 01:30:13.000]  Should the Supreme Court cry foul?
[01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:18.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, back with a story that could soon affect us all in a moment.
[01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:20.000]  Privacy is under attack.
[01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:24.000]  When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again.
[01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:29.000]  And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too.
[01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:34.000]  So protect your rights, say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself.
[01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:37.000]  Privacy, it's worth hanging on to.
[01:30:37.000 --> 01:30:44.000]  This message is brought to you by StartPage.com, the private search engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing.
[01:30:44.000 --> 01:30:47.000]  Start over with StartPage.
[01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:52.000]  Should the feds be allowed to secretly monitor citizens' vehicles without a warrant?
[01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:57.000]  That's the question in United States v. Jones, a watershed U.S. Supreme Court case.
[01:30:57.000 --> 01:31:01.000]  It involves a man named Antoine Jones suspected of cocaine trafficking.
[01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:07.000]  FBI agents secretly planted a GPS tracker on his Jeep, then tracked Jones for over a month.
[01:31:07.000 --> 01:31:11.000]  Trouble is they never bothered to get a court order, which is unconstitutional.
[01:31:11.000 --> 01:31:14.000]  The Supreme Court ruling is expected by this summer.
[01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:21.000]  If the court doesn't stomp on the FBI for this, we can expect the FBI to stomp on the Constitution even further.
[01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:31.000]  I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht for StartPage.com, the world's most private search engine.
[01:31:31.000 --> 01:31:35.000]  I lost my son, my nephew, my uncle, my son on September 11, 2001.
[01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:39.000]  Most people don't know that a third tower fell on September 11.
[01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:43.000]  World Trade Center 7, a 47-story skyscraper, was not hit by a plane.
[01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:47.000]  Although the official explanation is that fire brought down Building 7,
[01:31:47.000 --> 01:31:51.000]  over 1,200 architects and engineers have looked into the evidence
[01:31:51.000 --> 01:31:53.000]  and believe there is more to the story.
[01:31:53.000 --> 01:31:56.000]  Bring justice to my son, my uncle, my nephew, my son.
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[01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:18.000]  and classified it as a Schedule I drug to hide it behind the marijuana plant?
[01:32:18.000 --> 01:32:22.000]  People have been confused about this plant for over 80 years,
[01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:24.000]  and many still don't know what hemp is.
[01:32:24.000 --> 01:32:28.000]  So now you know hemp is not marijuana, and marijuana is not hemp.
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[01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:12.000]  You are listening to the Logos Radio Network, logosradionetwork.com.
[01:33:32.000 --> 01:33:56.000]  Okay, folks, we are back.
[01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:00.000]  This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens.
[01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:02.000]  We are here with Ken Magnuson.
[01:34:02.000 --> 01:34:06.000]  He is with us for some more post-interview analysis,
[01:34:06.000 --> 01:34:09.000]  and we are going to open up the phone lines at this point.
[01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:15.000]  512-646-1984 is the number to call.
[01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:19.000]  And before we go back into the discussion where we left off,
[01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:23.000]  I do want to plug the fundraiser, folks.
[01:34:23.000 --> 01:34:26.000]  If you are getting helpful information from this,
[01:34:26.000 --> 01:34:29.000]  if this is entertaining to you, informative to you,
[01:34:29.000 --> 01:34:35.000]  if you feel like this is a worthy cause, we do need your support.
[01:34:35.000 --> 01:34:37.000]  We have an annual fundraiser,
[01:34:37.000 --> 01:34:42.000]  and this year we are being sponsored by My Magic Mud.
[01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:46.000]  And for the first 50 people, and we have not had 50 donors yet,
[01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:49.000]  so you can still get in on the My Magic Mud promotion.
[01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:55.000]  For a $25 or more donation, you get a free jar of My Magic Mud,
[01:34:55.000 --> 01:35:01.000]  which is bentonite clay and coconut shell activated charcoal.
[01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:06.000]  It is a tooth whitener and also gum detoxing.
[01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:12.000]  It will help with all kinds of situations, gingivitis sensitivity.
[01:35:12.000 --> 01:35:15.000]  I can testify I use it, and it is great, great stuff.
[01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:16.000]  It is great for kids.
[01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:17.000]  It is nontoxic.
[01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:20.000]  It is recommended by dentists, highly recommended.
[01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:25.000]  Please visit logosradionetwork.com to get more information.
[01:35:25.000 --> 01:35:30.000]  And also our fundraiser is being sponsored this year by Central Texas Gunworks.
[01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:33.000]  Michael Cargill, the owner of Central Texas Gunworks.
[01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:34.000]  We have been working with him.
[01:35:34.000 --> 01:35:36.000]  He is just a great guy.
[01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:39.000]  He has his own show, by the way, that is going to be carried soon
[01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:42.000]  on one of the affiliates of Logos Radio Network.
[01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:47.000]  He is sponsoring our network fundraiser this year also.
[01:35:47.000 --> 01:35:54.000]  He is giving away a Glock 42.380 caliber pistol as the first prize
[01:35:54.000 --> 01:36:00.000]  and two concealed handgun carry classes as second prize.
[01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:04.000]  Of course, in order to qualify for second prize, you need to be in Texas
[01:36:04.000 --> 01:36:08.000]  because it is for Texas CHL license.
[01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:12.000]  You don't have to be in Austin, but you do have to be able to travel to Austin
[01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:14.000]  to take the class.
[01:36:14.000 --> 01:36:20.000]  So for every $25 you donate, you get your name entered in the hat.
[01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:25.000]  So a $100 donation would get your name entered into the hat four times.
[01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:27.000]  And this is not a raffle.
[01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:28.000]  Okay, this is a drawing.
[01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:30.000]  This is a giveaway.
[01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:31.000]  We are not selling tickets.
[01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:33.000]  You don't get a ticket number.
[01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:37.000]  It is a drawing because raffles are something that are highly regulated
[01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:43.000]  by the federal government and can only be done by registered nonprofit entities
[01:36:43.000 --> 01:36:45.000]  or government entities.
[01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:48.000]  They have to be done for a specific amount of Federal Reserve notes,
[01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:50.000]  not items, all these kinds of things.
[01:36:50.000 --> 01:36:51.000]  So this is not a raffle.
[01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:52.000]  This is a drawing.
[01:36:52.000 --> 01:36:53.000]  This is a giveaway.
[01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:56.000]  And folks, we really do need your help.
[01:36:56.000 --> 01:37:00.000]  We are coming up on today's the 22nd.
[01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:02.000]  The promotion ends.
[01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:07.000]  We're going to stop pushing the fundraiser at the end of this month.
[01:37:07.000 --> 01:37:14.000]  And so basically we only have nine days left of the fundraiser,
[01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:17.000]  and we're not even at 20% of our goal yet.
[01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:23.000]  We haven't even had $1,000 come in, and our goal is $7,000.
[01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:25.000]  Folks, please help us out.
[01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:26.000]  I mean, I hate to beg.
[01:37:26.000 --> 01:37:29.000]  It's really kind of humiliating and annoying.
[01:37:29.000 --> 01:37:31.000]  But we really do need your help.
[01:37:31.000 --> 01:37:36.000]  We want to help you, but we need your help in order to help you.
[01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:38.000]  So again, if you've gotten helpful information,
[01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:43.000]  I mean, just imagine how much money you would have to spend in a law school
[01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:48.000]  or community college classes or things like that to learn this kind of
[01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:51.000]  information, even if you haven't used it yourself in a case.
[01:37:51.000 --> 01:38:03.000]  I mean, we aim for informative radio, not just history or entertainment
[01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:06.000]  or just discussing news and current events.
[01:38:06.000 --> 01:38:10.000]  I mean, we really want to educate people for self-empowerments
[01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:14.000]  so they can better their lives and help people work through the court system.
[01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:19.000]  So even if you have not been able to use any of this information yourself,
[01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:21.000]  we are helping a lot of people.
[01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:28.000]  So you can help other people who are using this information by helping us
[01:38:28.000 --> 01:38:32.000]  continue to give this information to people who actually need it.
[01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:34.000]  So please donate today.
[01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:36.000]  We only have nine days left.
[01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:42.000]  And if you are in Austin, next Wednesday, the 28th,
[01:38:42.000 --> 01:38:46.000]  we have pharmacist Ben Fuchs who's going to be at Brave New Books for an event.
[01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:51.000]  He is going to be there giving a talk as part of the fundraising,
[01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:53.000]  and so we will be taking donations there as well.
[01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:56.000]  But I just want to take some time to plug the fundraiser
[01:38:56.000 --> 01:39:03.000]  because we are coming to a close and we haven't had much in the way of coming in yet.
[01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:06.000]  So I have to admit I am starting to get a little bit nervous here
[01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:11.000]  because the bills are pretty high to run this network.
[01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:13.000]  So we want to stay on the air.
[01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:15.000]  So go ahead, Randy.
[01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:17.000]  Yes, I'd like to make a comment.
[01:39:17.000 --> 01:39:25.000]  Probably most of the people listening to the network think of us as broadcasters
[01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:29.000]  of radio personalities.
[01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:31.000]  It's not really that way.
[01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:38.000]  No one on Logos Radio Network is paid for their services.
[01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:43.000]  We all donate all of our time free.
[01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:45.000]  We charge nothing.
[01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:57.000]  In fact, for the most part, the hosts on the network pay and help support the network.
[01:39:57.000 --> 01:39:59.000]  Not only do we give our time free,
[01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:04.000]  but we also dig into our own pockets and put money into this
[01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:09.000]  so that we can bring this information to you.
[01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:16.000]  And we're not asking for anything from you so that we can personally profit.
[01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:21.000]  We only want you to help us keep this on the air
[01:40:21.000 --> 01:40:30.000]  so that we can continue to provide remedy to people who need remedy.
[01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:33.000]  So please help us keep this thing on the air.
[01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:36.000]  Deborah spends all of her time.
[01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:41.000]  If you listen to my show, I always open the Thursday night show
[01:40:41.000 --> 01:40:44.000]  with Randy Calvin and Deborah Stevens.
[01:40:44.000 --> 01:40:46.000]  She hasn't been on a lot lately,
[01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:53.000]  and that's because she spends so much time keeping this network stitched together,
[01:40:53.000 --> 01:40:57.000]  keeping equipment up, replacing equipment, programming.
[01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:02.000]  I'm an electrical engineer, and when I look at what Deborah has done,
[01:41:02.000 --> 01:41:05.000]  I am absolutely astounded.
[01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:10.000]  She is way beyond my skill level,
[01:41:10.000 --> 01:41:15.000]  and that's what it took to keep this network on the air.
[01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:18.000]  We really would appreciate any help you could get
[01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:22.000]  so that we can keep this going and upgrade the equipment we have
[01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:28.000]  and get real remedy out to people like Mary who needs it.
[01:41:28.000 --> 01:41:30.000]  Absolutely. Thank you much.
[01:41:30.000 --> 01:41:33.000]  Okay, I don't want to take up any more time plugging the fundraiser.
[01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:36.000]  Let's plug it some more because we're running short on time here,
[01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:38.000]  but let's get back to the conversation at hand.
[01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:42.000]  Randy, when we went to break, you said you only had one lawyer who's ever done that.
[01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:47.000]  In other words, reduce the phone conversation and the proposal into writing,
[01:41:47.000 --> 01:41:50.000]  and then we went to break.
[01:41:50.000 --> 01:41:53.000]  So please finish the story, and then we're going to go back to Ken's rule.
[01:41:53.000 --> 01:41:56.000]  Ken has one more rule, and of course we have one more segment,
[01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:58.000]  and we have a caller, Rick, from Texas.
[01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:01.000]  So please finish the story, and then we'll go back to Ken for Ken's last rule
[01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:03.000]  and then the caller.
[01:42:03.000 --> 01:42:06.000]  Okay, we're not going to mention that I ran off the cliff.
[01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:11.000]  In all of my years of dealing with people and public officials,
[01:42:11.000 --> 01:42:20.000]  only one time have I had someone send me an email confirming our conversation,
[01:42:20.000 --> 01:42:24.000]  and that was a lawyer for the sheriff in Denton County,
[01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:30.000]  and to my detriment, I don't remember his name after all these years.
[01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:38.000]  But when I received that letter from him, I was thoroughly impressed.
[01:42:38.000 --> 01:42:41.000]  Randy, you know, the reason they don't want to do that
[01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:46.000]  is because they're trying to get you to agree to some Weasley scheme of theirs
[01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:49.000]  off the record, and they don't want to put it in writing.
[01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:51.000]  Yeah, yeah, most want.
[01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:56.000]  But you, you and I, when we're doing the right thing for the right reason,
[01:42:56.000 --> 01:42:58.000]  we should absolutely do that.
[01:42:58.000 --> 01:43:02.000]  When I received that email from him saying, you know,
[01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:06.000]  on this date at this time, we discussed these issues,
[01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:08.000]  and these were the conclusions we came to,
[01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:13.000]  would you please confirm to make sure that I'm not in error?
[01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:19.000]  I looked at that and I said to myself, self, this guy is a pro.
[01:43:19.000 --> 01:43:23.000]  Do not screw with this guy.
[01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:27.000]  So I would suggest to all of you, if you talk to a lawyer,
[01:43:27.000 --> 01:43:31.000]  and then you sit down as soon as you finish talking to the lawyer
[01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:36.000]  and write out a statement of your impressions of the conversation
[01:43:36.000 --> 01:43:43.000]  and email it to him for conversation, for confirmation.
[01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:49.000]  He's going to say to himself, self, don't screw with this guy.
[01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:51.000]  He's paying attention.
[01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:53.000]  All right, we've got to go to break now.
[01:43:53.000 --> 01:43:56.000]  When we get back on the other side, Ken's going to explain his last rule,
[01:43:56.000 --> 01:43:58.000]  and then we're going to go to Rick from Texas.
[01:43:58.000 --> 01:44:00.000]  We'll be right back.
[01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:04.000]  You feel tired when talking about important topics like money and politics?
[01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:05.000]  Sorry.
[01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:08.000]  Are you confused by words like the Constitution or the Federal Reserve?
[01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:09.000]  What?
[01:44:09.000 --> 01:44:13.000]  If so, you may be diagnosed with the deadliest disease known today, stupidity.
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[01:44:29.000 --> 01:44:30.000]  but there is hope.
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[01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:17.000]  Okay, folks, we are back.
[01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:21.000]  This is the rule of law, Randy Kelton and Eddie Craig, Deborah Stevens.
[01:46:21.000 --> 01:46:25.000]  Eddie is on Monday nights with his traffic show, which, by the way,
[01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:28.000]  just quickly, if you buy Eddie Craig's traffic seminar course
[01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:32.000]  between now and the end of January, normal price, $250,
[01:46:32.000 --> 01:46:34.000]  you will be participating in the fundraiser.
[01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:37.000]  You will get 10 entries into the gun giveaway.
[01:46:37.000 --> 01:46:40.000]  Okay, so we are going to go to Ken now,
[01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:42.000]  and Ken is going to explain his final rule.
[01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:44.000]  Then we will go to Rick from Texas.
[01:46:44.000 --> 01:46:45.000]  Go ahead, Ken.
[01:46:45.000 --> 01:46:46.000]  Right.
[01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:50.000]  I just can't emphasize we left off with document everything.
[01:46:50.000 --> 01:46:54.000]  The one comment I was going to make is the Native Americans on this continent.
[01:46:54.000 --> 01:46:57.000]  If they had set up deeds of trust and records offices,
[01:46:57.000 --> 01:47:02.000]  they still own the North American continent, but they didn't.
[01:47:02.000 --> 01:47:04.000]  So anyway, that's why you do everything in writing,
[01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:06.000]  because that's where we're at.
[01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:08.000]  The last rule is an important rule.
[01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:10.000]  Everything is political.
[01:47:10.000 --> 01:47:13.000]  I don't mean Republican and Democrat, though that can happen.
[01:47:13.000 --> 01:47:18.000]  It's the political ideologies of small groups.
[01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:20.000]  Lawyer, not a lawyer.
[01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:21.000]  Judge, not a judge.
[01:47:21.000 --> 01:47:23.000]  Legislator, not a legislator.
[01:47:23.000 --> 01:47:24.000]  Teacher, not a teacher.
[01:47:24.000 --> 01:47:27.000]  Police officer, not a police officer.
[01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:32.000]  All politics is local.
[01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:37.000]  The issue of everything being political is anytime two people get together
[01:47:37.000 --> 01:47:41.000]  and decide anything, that is a political process.
[01:47:41.000 --> 01:47:44.000]  If you get together with your friends and decide where you're going to go eat lunch,
[01:47:44.000 --> 01:47:47.000]  that's a political process.
[01:47:47.000 --> 01:47:49.000]  Where you want to go to lunch.
[01:47:49.000 --> 01:47:51.000]  Now, they can get much more complicated than that,
[01:47:51.000 --> 01:47:56.000]  but you have to be cognizant of the political ideology and where things are going.
[01:47:56.000 --> 01:48:03.000]  And the last little addendum to this is we're now in the Texas legislative session.
[01:48:03.000 --> 01:48:07.000]  We've got some bills we're trying to get proposed in order to change some of the court rules
[01:48:07.000 --> 01:48:10.000]  in order to hold judges accountable.
[01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:13.000]  And so what I'm going to suggest is people go out there
[01:48:13.000 --> 01:48:16.000]  and start looking at the Texas legislature,
[01:48:16.000 --> 01:48:20.000]  look at the bills, get familiar with who their legislator is,
[01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:24.000]  and when we start talking about some of the proposals we're going to come up with later
[01:48:24.000 --> 01:48:29.000]  during this legislative session, which ends at the end of May,
[01:48:29.000 --> 01:48:33.000]  we may ask you to talk to your legislators about it.
[01:48:33.000 --> 01:48:34.000]  Have a meeting with them.
[01:48:34.000 --> 01:48:36.000]  Say you want to support this legislation.
[01:48:36.000 --> 01:48:38.000]  You want to hold judges accountable.
[01:48:38.000 --> 01:48:41.000]  You want to hold prosecutors accountable.
[01:48:41.000 --> 01:48:48.000]  You know, you want to hold public officials accountable, so that's what we're facing.
[01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:51.000]  And this is what we do every legislative session.
[01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:55.000]  So, oh, and the Barnett Association is under sunset this year.
[01:48:55.000 --> 01:48:59.000]  A legislative session is starting now.
[01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:04.000]  And Ken and I, we go down to these subcommittee hearings,
[01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:10.000]  and we're in a state with 25 million people.
[01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:14.000]  And there will be a bunch of people there, but for the most part,
[01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:21.000]  they're there for special interests, for companies that have interest in legislation.
[01:49:21.000 --> 01:49:28.000]  The ordinary individual, the voter, the constituents of the legislators,
[01:49:28.000 --> 01:49:33.000]  there are very few of them there, 10, 15, 20, max.
[01:49:33.000 --> 01:49:35.000]  Yeah, and part of the reason for that, Randy,
[01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:40.000]  is that the majority of people in the state do not live in Austin.
[01:49:40.000 --> 01:49:45.000]  San Antonio, Houston, the DAFW, Dallas, Fort Worth, Arlington area
[01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:50.000]  contains most of the population of Texas, and people can't travel.
[01:49:50.000 --> 01:49:53.000]  And so, folks, that's why it's really important that if you're in Austin,
[01:49:53.000 --> 01:49:57.000]  you need to be on top of these bills and get to these subcommittee hearings.
[01:49:57.000 --> 01:49:59.000]  But listen, we can talk about that more tomorrow night.
[01:49:59.000 --> 01:50:00.000]  We only have seven minutes left.
[01:50:00.000 --> 01:50:01.000]  We need to take our call.
[01:50:01.000 --> 01:50:02.000]  Rick from Texas.
[01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:03.000]  Rick, thank you for holding.
[01:50:03.000 --> 01:50:06.000]  We have a question tonight.
[01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:07.000]  This is a follow-up.
[01:50:07.000 --> 01:50:11.000]  I talked to Eddie Craig last month about a citation that we received from the city.
[01:50:11.000 --> 01:50:18.000]  We bought a permit in March of 2013 for a patio in our backyard.
[01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:21.000]  We built it, and now the city is revoking it
[01:50:21.000 --> 01:50:27.000]  and making me go through all these hearings and state administrative meetings.
[01:50:27.000 --> 01:50:28.000]  Okay, hold on.
[01:50:28.000 --> 01:50:31.000]  You're putting in a patio?
[01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:35.000]  The tax covered patio in March of 2013.
[01:50:35.000 --> 01:50:40.000]  Did you get a permit before you started the patio?
[01:50:40.000 --> 01:50:42.000]  Yes.
[01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:46.000]  Did the city approve your plans?
[01:50:46.000 --> 01:50:47.000]  They gave me the plan.
[01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:49.000]  They approved it.
[01:50:49.000 --> 01:50:55.000]  Okay, the reason I'm saying this is often people don't, you know, they think,
[01:50:55.000 --> 01:50:56.000]  this is my property.
[01:50:56.000 --> 01:50:58.000]  I can do anything I want to.
[01:50:58.000 --> 01:51:03.000]  If you live in a municipality, no, you can't do anything you want to.
[01:51:03.000 --> 01:51:06.000]  Well, you maybe can, but you're going to have a fight with the city
[01:51:06.000 --> 01:51:08.000]  if you don't get a permit first.
[01:51:08.000 --> 01:51:09.000]  Okay, I'm sorry.
[01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:10.000]  I interrupted.
[01:51:10.000 --> 01:51:11.000]  Go ahead.
[01:51:11.000 --> 01:51:14.000]  Yeah, and so about six months ago,
[01:51:14.000 --> 01:51:21.000]  I started getting these citations for claiming I built a fence
[01:51:21.000 --> 01:51:24.000]  instead of a detached covered patio because it's 12 feet high
[01:51:24.000 --> 01:51:30.000]  and it has a 13-foot cover on it, which is built to the specs of the permit
[01:51:30.000 --> 01:51:34.000]  that was issued in March of 2013.
[01:51:34.000 --> 01:51:36.000]  So we had an administrative hearing.
[01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:37.000]  The board met.
[01:51:37.000 --> 01:51:40.000]  They said, this is not a detached covered patio.
[01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:41.000]  It is a fence.
[01:51:41.000 --> 01:51:43.000]  And I said, well, that's your interpretation.
[01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:45.000]  I built what's on the permit.
[01:51:45.000 --> 01:51:49.000]  To me, it's a detached covered patio, and it covers my pool.
[01:51:49.000 --> 01:51:52.000]  They went ahead and revoked the permit, and now they're giving me fines.
[01:51:52.000 --> 01:51:57.000]  Now it's up to, I got a second citation, $300, and they said...
[01:51:57.000 --> 01:51:58.000]  Okay, hold on.
[01:51:58.000 --> 01:52:08.000]  Did you read the code that applies to the detached patio?
[01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:12.000]  What is the definition of a detached covered patio
[01:52:12.000 --> 01:52:17.000]  as opposed to what they're implying it to be?
[01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:20.000]  A detached covered patio can be 12 feet high.
[01:52:20.000 --> 01:52:23.000]  It can have any measurement on the cover.
[01:52:23.000 --> 01:52:27.000]  It could be 6 inches, 13 inches, 2 feet.
[01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:29.000]  There's no minimum or maximum.
[01:52:29.000 --> 01:52:34.000]  So what they did was they said what you built is a fence under the fence code,
[01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:36.000]  and it can't be more than 6 feet tall.
[01:52:36.000 --> 01:52:39.000]  So it's a violation.
[01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:40.000]  Okay.
[01:52:40.000 --> 01:52:44.000]  What is the definition of a patio?
[01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:50.000]  The reason I ask that, as opposed to the definition of a fence.
[01:52:50.000 --> 01:52:53.000]  You have two different codes with the city.
[01:52:53.000 --> 01:52:55.000]  The fence code says you can only have it 6 feet high,
[01:52:55.000 --> 01:53:00.000]  whereas the patio can be 12 feet high with any size cover on top of it
[01:53:00.000 --> 01:53:03.000]  to cover the pools.
[01:53:03.000 --> 01:53:06.000]  And the permit was issued as a patio.
[01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:07.000]  Okay, a patio.
[01:53:07.000 --> 01:53:16.000]  When I hear the term patio, I think of a deck and of a covering over the deck.
[01:53:16.000 --> 01:53:18.000]  When I think of a fence, it's something totally different.
[01:53:18.000 --> 01:53:23.000]  How are these two getting interchanged?
[01:53:23.000 --> 01:53:32.000]  The supervisors that gave me the permit told me I can build this structure 12 feet high
[01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:37.000]  with any size top on it, and that would be technically called a detached covered patio.
[01:53:37.000 --> 01:53:40.000]  Do you have that in writing?
[01:53:40.000 --> 01:53:41.000]  Yes, I do.
[01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:43.000]  I have the permit in writing.
[01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:44.000]  They issued it.
[01:53:44.000 --> 01:53:45.000]  They modified it.
[01:53:45.000 --> 01:53:46.000]  They said you got to tweak it a little bit.
[01:53:46.000 --> 01:53:47.000]  You got to adjust it here.
[01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:50.000]  So for six months, I tweaked it, adjusted it.
[01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:53.000]  I had the engineer let her come in and say you got to reinforce it here,
[01:53:53.000 --> 01:53:55.000]  reinforce it there.
[01:53:55.000 --> 01:54:01.000]  So you had specific plans that were approved by the city under this permit?
[01:54:01.000 --> 01:54:02.000]  Yes.
[01:54:02.000 --> 01:54:04.000]  Are you in Austin?
[01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:05.000]  I'm in San Antonio.
[01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:06.000]  Okay.
[01:54:06.000 --> 01:54:09.000]  You said that there was an administrative hearing.
[01:54:09.000 --> 01:54:14.000]  Is this a building and standards commission hearing that you're talking about?
[01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:18.000]  It was a developmental services hearing with the board of directors.
[01:54:18.000 --> 01:54:22.000]  A what services hearing?
[01:54:22.000 --> 01:54:23.000]  Developmental services.
[01:54:23.000 --> 01:54:26.000]  Developmental services, okay.
[01:54:26.000 --> 01:54:37.000]  What is the claim by the city of a violation of the permit that you have?
[01:54:37.000 --> 01:54:40.000]  It says that I'm liable for a violation of a city ordinance.
[01:54:40.000 --> 01:54:46.000]  Failure can apply with design structure standards that occur January 7, 2015,
[01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:49.000]  when they came out to inspect it at my address.
[01:54:49.000 --> 01:54:52.000]  Do you have a right to a hearing?
[01:54:52.000 --> 01:54:56.000]  Wait a minute, what was the violation?
[01:54:56.000 --> 01:54:59.000]  They said that I built a fence.
[01:54:59.000 --> 01:55:01.000]  Okay.
[01:55:01.000 --> 01:55:04.000]  Does what you built have a criminal?
[01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:05.000]  Hey, hold on, Randy.
[01:55:05.000 --> 01:55:06.000]  Randy, Ken has some input here.
[01:55:06.000 --> 01:55:08.000]  Go ahead, Ken.
[01:55:08.000 --> 01:55:09.000]  Okay.
[01:55:09.000 --> 01:55:13.000]  One of the things that's important here is if he submitted a plan and they approved it
[01:55:13.000 --> 01:55:18.000]  and he built it according to the plan, they waived all the issues.
[01:55:18.000 --> 01:55:21.000]  They can't change their mind retroactively.
[01:55:21.000 --> 01:55:23.000]  They're barred by a stopple.
[01:55:23.000 --> 01:55:25.000]  Wait a minute, Ken.
[01:55:25.000 --> 01:55:27.000]  This is kind of confusing.
[01:55:27.000 --> 01:55:34.000]  He's building a patio and they're accusing him of building a fence.
[01:55:34.000 --> 01:55:39.000]  I'm trying to find out how they got from patio to fence.
[01:55:39.000 --> 01:55:41.000]  They're just saying that arbitrarily.
[01:55:41.000 --> 01:55:43.000]  He submitted a plan.
[01:55:43.000 --> 01:55:46.000]  We don't know that.
[01:55:46.000 --> 01:55:51.000]  Rick, how did they get from patio to fence?
[01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:56.000]  We had a neighbor that was upset with the structure and they called the city.
[01:55:56.000 --> 01:55:57.000]  They raised so much hell.
[01:55:57.000 --> 01:56:01.000]  They finally got some attention and they said, we don't like this structure.
[01:56:01.000 --> 01:56:05.000]  They have, I guess, friends or family that works with the city,
[01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:08.000]  and they forced the city to revoke our permit saying,
[01:56:08.000 --> 01:56:10.000]  we've got to do something to pull this permit.
[01:56:10.000 --> 01:56:13.000]  They said, just tell them that it's a fence.
[01:56:13.000 --> 01:56:18.000]  Okay, hold on a minute, they forced the city to revoke your permit.
[01:56:18.000 --> 01:56:21.000]  Who is that that forced the city?
[01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:25.000]  The next door neighbor.
[01:56:25.000 --> 01:56:30.000]  And how did they force the city to revoke your permit?
[01:56:30.000 --> 01:56:34.000]  I believe that they gave somebody some money under the table.
[01:56:34.000 --> 01:56:37.000]  No, hold on, we can't go there.
[01:56:37.000 --> 01:56:38.000]  Okay.
[01:56:38.000 --> 01:56:40.000]  Do you have any?
[01:56:40.000 --> 01:56:44.000]  In order for the city to revoke a permit,
[01:56:44.000 --> 01:56:49.000]  they're going to have to accuse you of doing something
[01:56:49.000 --> 01:56:53.000]  that violated the limitations that were granted to you.
[01:56:53.000 --> 01:56:56.000]  If you were granted a permit, that's a grant.
[01:56:56.000 --> 01:56:59.000]  You can act within the limits of that permit.
[01:56:59.000 --> 01:57:07.000]  Did they state anything that indicated that you exceeded the limits of the permit?
[01:57:07.000 --> 01:57:15.000]  No, they said I violated, you are liable for a violation of city ordinance.
[01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:19.000]  What was the ordinance?
[01:57:19.000 --> 01:57:21.000]  The ordinance that was a fence.
[01:57:21.000 --> 01:57:28.000]  It said, by their constructed a fence exceeding 16 high on property zone R6.
[01:57:28.000 --> 01:57:33.000]  Okay, so it sounds to me like they did not accuse him of exceeding the limitations of the permit.
[01:57:33.000 --> 01:57:38.000]  They just out of the blue said, you know what, by the way, this is a fence,
[01:57:38.000 --> 01:57:41.000]  and so that's in violation of the city ordinance.
[01:57:41.000 --> 01:57:43.000]  This is completely capricious.
[01:57:43.000 --> 01:57:45.000]  I heard this story before.
[01:57:45.000 --> 01:57:47.000]  I wish we had more time to discuss this.
[01:57:47.000 --> 01:57:52.000]  I'm sorry, Rick, I didn't realize it was you with this situation.
[01:57:52.000 --> 01:57:54.000]  I would have tried to give you more time.
[01:57:54.000 --> 01:57:56.000]  We're at the end of the show.
[01:57:56.000 --> 01:57:57.000]  Call back tomorrow night.
[01:57:57.000 --> 01:58:01.000]  If you can call back tomorrow night, please, between 8 and midnight,
[01:58:01.000 --> 01:58:03.000]  there's a four-hour show, okay, Rick?
[01:58:03.000 --> 01:58:05.000]  Midnight tomorrow, I will do that, yes.
[01:58:05.000 --> 01:58:06.000]  Okay, thank you very much.
[01:58:06.000 --> 01:58:10.000]  And if Ken can join us, then maybe he'll have some input, too.
[01:58:10.000 --> 01:58:14.000]  Okay, because I emailed you a document, the three documents that I have,
[01:58:14.000 --> 01:58:17.000]  the permit, the letter, and the picture.
[01:58:17.000 --> 01:58:19.000]  Okay, all right, I will look for that in my email.
[01:58:19.000 --> 01:58:22.000]  I'm sorry, I've been very busy trying to deal with the fundraisers and everything.
[01:58:22.000 --> 01:58:26.000]  All right, Ken, Ken, thank you for joining us tonight, by the way.
[01:58:26.000 --> 01:58:27.000]  You're welcome.
[01:58:27.000 --> 01:58:32.000]  All right, this is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, and Deborah Stevens.
[01:58:32.000 --> 01:58:35.000]  Tonight, again, is January 22nd.
[01:58:35.000 --> 01:58:39.000]  And folks, please, please consider donating to a fundraiser to support the cause
[01:58:39.000 --> 01:58:41.000]  and keep us on the air.
[01:58:41.000 --> 01:58:44.000]  Good night, everyone, and God bless.
[01:58:44.000 --> 01:59:08.000]  Thank you very much.
[01:59:14.000 --> 01:59:41.000]  Thank you very much.
[01:59:44.000 --> 02:00:00.000]  You're listening to the Logos Radio Network at logosradionetwork.com.