[00:00.000 --> 00:10.520] The Center for American Progress reported Thursday a 37 percent increase in the number [00:10.520 --> 00:13.640] of suburban poor in the last ten years. [00:13.640 --> 00:17.400] Joblessness and foreclosures were major contributing factors. [00:17.400 --> 00:23.240] Nonprofits serving the 14 million new poor are scrambling to keep up with the increased [00:23.240 --> 00:25.240] need. [00:25.240 --> 00:30.360] European police are testing radar cameras that not only catch speeders but check license [00:30.360 --> 00:35.320] plates, measure the distance between vehicles and take pictures of the inside of the car [00:35.320 --> 00:37.280] to see if you're wearing a seatbelt. [00:37.280 --> 00:42.480] The new Big Brother camera is connected to police computers via satellite so prosecutions [00:42.480 --> 00:46.680] can be started within seconds of an offense. [00:46.680 --> 00:51.760] President Boris Tadic has become the first Serbian leader to pay his respects to Croatian [00:51.760 --> 00:55.280] victims of a notorious 1991 massacre. [00:55.280 --> 01:00.800] During a visit to a memorial to 260 people murdered at Foucaultvar, Tadic expressed his [01:00.800 --> 01:02.960] apology and regret. [01:02.960 --> 01:10.960] Foucaultvar was captured after a three-month siege by the Serb-led Yugoslav army. [01:10.960 --> 01:15.760] Africa Israel, flagship company of Israeli billionaire Lev Leof, has said it will no [01:15.760 --> 01:19.000] longer build Israeli settlements in the West Bank. [01:19.000 --> 01:24.800] In the last few years, numerous organizations, firms, governments and celebrities have severed [01:24.800 --> 01:30.160] relationships with Leof and his companies over their involvement in settlement construction [01:30.160 --> 01:32.840] and other human rights abuses. [01:32.840 --> 01:37.240] Critics say the announcement shows the global boycott, divestment and sanction movement [01:37.240 --> 01:39.520] against Israel is working. [01:39.520 --> 01:45.560] Ethan Heitner of Adala, New York, who initiated the boycott said, this provides concrete evidence [01:45.560 --> 01:50.200] of the way in which the BDS movement can change companies' behavior. [01:50.200 --> 01:55.200] Leof, who one associate described as having the, quote, instincts of a tiger and balls [01:55.200 --> 02:01.200] of a panther, continues to own diamond polishing companies in Angola and Namibia, where jewelry [02:01.200 --> 02:05.560] workers work for less than $2 a day. [02:05.560 --> 02:12.280] The US Federal Reserve Wednesday announced a $600 billion bond-buying program it asserts [02:12.280 --> 02:14.680] will bolster the US economy. [02:14.680 --> 02:20.720] The stimulus measure consists of printing money and using it to buy US treasury debt. [02:20.720 --> 02:26.240] The Fed says the strategy will raise the price of corporate stocks, lower the dollar's exchange [02:26.240 --> 02:31.000] rate, making US exports more attractive, and lower interest rates. [02:31.000 --> 02:37.520] The Fed carried out a similar program of so-called quantitative easing between March 2009 and [02:37.520 --> 02:44.080] March 2010, flooding financial markets with cheap credit, enabling banks and big corporations [02:44.080 --> 02:50.320] to record bumper profits even as they slashed jobs and suffered revenue declines. [02:50.320 --> 02:54.400] The new round of dollar printing will likely have the same effect. [02:54.400 --> 02:59.480] For more details on this story, visit INNWorldRecord.net. [02:59.480 --> 03:11.360] You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at RuleOfLawRadio.com, live free [03:11.360 --> 03:27.800] speech talk radio at it's best. [03:27.800 --> 03:57.740] Thanks for watching. [03:57.800 --> 04:01.800] And you had bad dreams, you go to school and learn the golden rule [04:01.800 --> 04:04.800] So why are you acting like a bloody fool? [04:04.800 --> 04:07.800] If you get caught, then you must get crewed [04:07.800 --> 04:10.800] Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do? [04:10.800 --> 04:11.800] What you gonna do? [04:11.800 --> 04:14.800] All right, bad boys, bad boys, what are you gonna do? [04:14.800 --> 04:19.800] What are you going to do when we come for you here on the Rule of Law? [04:19.800 --> 04:25.800] Tonight is Thursday, November 4th, 2010. [04:25.800 --> 04:29.800] My name is Deborah Stevens. We're here with Randy Kelton and Eddie Craig. [04:29.800 --> 04:31.800] We'll be taking your phone calls tonight. [04:31.800 --> 04:37.800] But first, I want to welcome to the show for the first few segments [04:37.800 --> 04:45.800] Mrs. Karen Rennick of VoteRescue.org, one of my very good friends. [04:45.800 --> 04:51.800] She's going to be talking about the excursion that they had to the County Commissioner's Court on the 19th of this month. [04:51.800 --> 05:01.800] And they also did a hand counting of paper ballots demonstration on the steps of Austin City Hall on this past Tuesday. [05:01.800 --> 05:04.800] So we're going to hear about these two events tonight. [05:04.800 --> 05:08.800] We're going to get the recap, what the reaction was from the public on Tuesday, [05:08.800 --> 05:12.800] how much headway they seemed to make or not make with the County Commissioners. [05:12.800 --> 05:14.800] Karen, thank you and welcome to the show. [05:14.800 --> 05:16.800] Oh, thank you, Deborah. It's wonderful to be back. [05:16.800 --> 05:26.800] You guys are so gracious to have us come on and be able to continue explaining to the public what we're doing and what our efforts are. [05:26.800 --> 05:27.800] So thank you so much. [05:27.800 --> 05:28.800] Of course. [05:28.800 --> 05:33.800] And Karen, before we get into the events, for folks out there who may not be familiar with the voting issue [05:33.800 --> 05:40.800] or who may think that they have it figured out already but might perhaps be being led down the wrong path, [05:40.800 --> 05:51.800] can you please explain to the listeners why voter verified paper trails are way more dangerous than just straight up touchscreen voting systems, [05:51.800 --> 05:55.800] why they're equally as bad and how that's absolutely not the way we want to go? [05:55.800 --> 05:56.800] Sure. [05:56.800 --> 06:00.800] Because, yeah, I think that equally as bad is more appropriate. [06:00.800 --> 06:11.800] It's all about having a process that is totally transparent and observable. [06:11.800 --> 06:18.800] And first of all, with the direct record electronic machines that we use here in Travis County [06:18.800 --> 06:24.800] and that are still used in a large number of municipalities and jurisdictions across the country, [06:24.800 --> 06:35.800] you are basically using a system that in no way is there any transparency. [06:35.800 --> 06:43.800] There is no way of knowing if your vote is being counted as you intend it to be counted or as it is cast [06:43.800 --> 06:52.800] because everything that goes on in the voting process from the moment that you supposedly cast your ballot on the machine is done inside the machine. [06:52.800 --> 06:57.800] It's hidden from view and there's just no way of knowing. [06:57.800 --> 07:08.800] And some people have thought, well, the solution was, well, let's just have the machine print out a paper trail, not a ballot but a paper trail. [07:08.800 --> 07:14.800] And this is what's called the voter verified paper audit trail or VVPAT. [07:14.800 --> 07:23.800] And this is also not the solution because these computers can be programmed really to do just about anything you want them to do. [07:23.800 --> 07:33.800] And one of the things they can be programmed to do is they can be programmed to actually print out a paper trail, if you call it, [07:33.800 --> 07:46.800] that does reflect how you, you know, cast your vote or, you know, wanted to vote, but it also at the same time can record something differently inside the machine. [07:46.800 --> 07:59.800] And therefore the machine is still tallying or counting a different, you know, a different count, let's say, or totals for the people running and for the measures. [07:59.800 --> 08:09.800] But at the same time it could be spinning out a paper trail that does reflect how the voters are voting. [08:09.800 --> 08:24.800] The problem with the paper audit trails is that they're never 100 percent, these printers or whatever never really produce 100 percent [08:24.800 --> 08:33.800] because they are prone to failure, they oftentimes record incorrectly, they jam, whatever, [08:33.800 --> 08:41.800] and they're practically speaking they're almost impossible to count because the way they've been designed it uses thorough paper, [08:41.800 --> 08:46.800] they look like gas station receipts, they curl up, they're long strips of paper, [08:46.800 --> 08:56.800] and frankly under 30 percent of the people it's been tested in studies, you know, don't even bother to look at what has been recorded. [08:56.800 --> 09:07.800] So really they're useless and most times if you're going to go back and use them as some sort of a check or an audit or even for a recount, [09:07.800 --> 09:16.800] the recount or the audit is done a long time after the winner's been declared. [09:16.800 --> 09:23.800] It's hard to overturn if you do find a discrepancy, but a lot of times people, they don't even bother to count them. [09:23.800 --> 09:31.800] Out there in the states that have this sort of process, there are groups that are monitoring that are happening [09:31.800 --> 09:37.800] and they're finding out that they're not performing these so-called spot checks or audits. [09:37.800 --> 09:41.800] So it's not efficient frankly. [09:41.800 --> 09:50.800] Yes, and not only that for these recounts, the only time that they're used is for recounts and most of the time only something like 5 percent [09:50.800 --> 09:58.800] or 3 percent of the precincts or of the general vote is so-called recounted and they just do a statistical mean. [09:58.800 --> 10:02.800] So the whole point is the pieces of paper never get counted in the first place. [10:02.800 --> 10:11.800] And the reason that I said before that it's possibly even more dangerous is because it gives an illusion to the general public [10:11.800 --> 10:17.800] who may know that something's wrong with this voting system of ours, with the machines and like, hey, we need to do something, [10:17.800 --> 10:20.800] and oh yeah, paper, that sounds like a good idea. [10:20.800 --> 10:26.800] And then this verified paper trails gets palmed off on the public and then they think the problem's solved [10:26.800 --> 10:28.800] but there's nothing more that needs to be done. [10:28.800 --> 10:31.800] Well, you're absolutely right in that regard, Deborah. [10:31.800 --> 10:39.800] It is a false solution and a false sense that, yeah, things are fine, you know, having the paper audit trail. [10:39.800 --> 10:41.800] So in that way, you're right. [10:41.800 --> 10:43.800] It is more dangerous. [10:43.800 --> 10:50.800] And the next step that a lot of jurisdictions take is they say, well, okay, let's go to paper ballots then. [10:50.800 --> 10:55.800] And they oftentimes say just make that statement or announcement to the public. [10:55.800 --> 11:00.800] And what they really mean is we're going to go to paper ballots but, hey, we're still going to count them electronically. [11:00.800 --> 11:02.800] We're going to use scanners. [11:02.800 --> 11:13.800] And I find even that, that's even worse because once again, you've got the paper ballot. [11:13.800 --> 11:17.800] It is most often hand marked by the voter. [11:17.800 --> 11:23.800] For the disabled voter, there are ballot markers out there so they get that assistance that they need. [11:23.800 --> 11:30.800] But once again, you're still having the ballot secretly being counted by these scanners. [11:30.800 --> 11:31.800] Absolutely. [11:31.800 --> 11:38.800] And even if the scanner counter is at the precinct so that people can say, oh, well, see, the counting's being done at the precinct. [11:38.800 --> 11:41.800] Yeah, but it's still being done by an electronic machine. [11:41.800 --> 11:43.800] It's still being counted electronically. [11:43.800 --> 11:48.800] And the paper themselves are not being counted with any oversight. [11:48.800 --> 11:55.800] And so then later on down the line, if the election was to be challenged or if somebody was to ask for a recount, [11:55.800 --> 11:58.800] well, by then it's too late because the chain of custody has been lost. [11:58.800 --> 12:00.800] The polling places have closed. [12:00.800 --> 12:04.800] The ballot boxes have all been taken and stored somewhere and moved. [12:04.800 --> 12:06.800] So it's too late at that point. [12:06.800 --> 12:13.800] The pieces of paper have to be counted by hand at the precinct the night of the election is the only way to do it. [12:13.800 --> 12:14.800] That's right. [12:14.800 --> 12:18.800] And everything really has to happen on one day. [12:18.800 --> 12:25.800] It has to be one continuous process that is observable every step of the way. [12:25.800 --> 12:35.800] If anything does get moved, you know, whatever, I mean, just moving it from one room to the other, that's when things happen. [12:35.800 --> 12:45.800] And so we say it's just got to be totally, totally open, viewable from the moment the ballot is cast and put into the box. [12:45.800 --> 12:50.800] The box stays in full public view until the close of polls. [12:50.800 --> 12:52.800] And then the ballots are removed. [12:52.800 --> 13:01.800] And that's when in our scenario we've got teams of, you know, the public comes in to count. [13:01.800 --> 13:03.800] They've been trained. [13:03.800 --> 13:07.800] It's not rocket science, but you've got people who, you know, after work come in, [13:07.800 --> 13:11.800] they're not people who have been, you know, working the polls all day long [13:11.800 --> 13:17.800] and then are going to have to stand other, say, three to four hours to count the ballots. [13:17.800 --> 13:24.800] And then once the ballots are counted and all the tallies have been calculated and everything's been added up, [13:24.800 --> 13:31.800] then the next most important step is that they're publicly posted at every single precinct. [13:31.800 --> 13:41.800] I mean, that precinct's totals are posted at that precinct so that they can be publicly viewed with today's technology, [13:41.800 --> 13:47.800] everybody having, you know, cameras on their cell phones, people can record it, they can send it around, [13:47.800 --> 13:52.800] they can post it if they want to, you know, on the Internet. [13:52.800 --> 14:01.800] But at that point it sort of freezes. You've captured this count at a very low level in this, [14:01.800 --> 14:09.800] sort of in this pyramid of, you know, counting up the ballots so that for county totals you just take all your precinct totals [14:09.800 --> 14:15.800] and then for state totals you, you know, count up, you add up your county totals for, you know, for each race. [14:15.800 --> 14:24.800] Yes. Posting the results on the precinct door and requiring them to stay posted for, I would say, 72 hours is crucial [14:24.800 --> 14:31.800] because that way the chain of custody of the count isn't lost from the precinct to the county level [14:31.800 --> 14:35.800] because, like you said, people have cameras on their cell phones or, you know, heck, you know, [14:35.800 --> 14:39.800] I'll just drive around all the precincts myself if I have to, you know. [14:39.800 --> 14:40.800] If somebody wanted to they could. [14:40.800 --> 14:48.800] Exactly. And that way we can verify what the totals that are being reported by the county elections officials [14:48.800 --> 14:53.800] to make sure that those actually add up to what the precinct totals really are. [14:53.800 --> 15:03.800] Because what we figured out, too, is that oftentimes on these machines perhaps the machine totals could be correct, let's say, [15:03.800 --> 15:12.800] but then the tabulation or the tabulating software that's used at the county level could, that could be where there could be [15:12.800 --> 15:15.800] insertion of code that's manipulating the totals. [15:15.800 --> 15:21.800] So that's why you just have to have everything done totally observably. [15:21.800 --> 15:26.800] Or maybe somebody just made an honest mistake on the calculator for all we know. [15:26.800 --> 15:36.800] The point is the tabulation has to be verifiable and public at every stage of the game [15:36.800 --> 15:39.800] if we're ever going to have legitimate elections. [15:39.800 --> 15:43.800] And we have anything but that right now at this point in time. [15:43.800 --> 15:44.800] That's right. [15:44.800 --> 15:56.800] It's a total sham in my book. And that's what we were, that's what Vote Rescue has been promoting for five years now. [15:56.800 --> 16:00.800] And we, right now it's very exciting. [16:00.800 --> 16:05.800] Vote Rescue is now part of a coalition called the Hand Count Coalition. [16:05.800 --> 16:16.800] Right now we've got 14 groups that are backing, you know, this particular effort in terms of, and we're focusing on Travis County. [16:16.800 --> 16:20.800] It could very well spread to other counties and we hope that happens. [16:20.800 --> 16:23.800] But in terms, we just don't want to disperse our energies. [16:23.800 --> 16:32.800] We want to really focus here locally on our county because it represents, you know, sizable county. [16:32.800 --> 16:36.800] All right. Well, speaking of focusing on the county, when we get back, [16:36.800 --> 16:44.800] we're going to hear from Karen about what happened when they went down and harassed the, for lack of a better term, [16:44.800 --> 16:48.800] the county commissioner's courts here in Travis County. [16:48.800 --> 16:52.800] And we're going to see what their reaction was from what I hear. [16:52.800 --> 16:56.800] I'm not very happy with their reaction, but we're going to get more about that on the other side. [16:56.800 --> 17:01.800] We'll be right back. This is a rule of law. [17:01.800 --> 17:08.800] Capital Coin and Bullion is your local source for rare coins, precious metals, and coin supplies in the Austin metro area. [17:08.800 --> 17:10.800] We also ship worldwide. [17:10.800 --> 17:16.800] We are a family-owned and operated business that offers competitive prices on your coin and metals purchases. [17:16.800 --> 17:23.800] We buy, sell, trade, and consign rare coins, gold and silver coin collections, precious metals, and scrap gold. [17:23.800 --> 17:26.800] We will purchase and sell gold and jewelry items as well. [17:26.800 --> 17:29.800] We offer daily specials on coins and bullions. [17:29.800 --> 17:39.800] We're located at 5448 Barnett Road, Suite 3, and we're open Monday through Friday 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., Saturdays 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. [17:39.800 --> 17:47.800] You are welcome to stop in our shop during regular business hours or call 512-646-6440 with any questions. [17:47.800 --> 17:52.800] Ask for Chad and say you heard about us on Rule of Law Radio or 90.1 FM. [17:52.800 --> 17:59.800] That's Capital Coin and Bullion, 512-646-6440. [17:59.800 --> 18:04.800] Are you being harassed by debt collectors with phone calls, letters, or even lawsuits? [18:04.800 --> 18:08.800] Stop debt collectors now with the Michael Mears proven method. [18:08.800 --> 18:14.800] Michael Mears has won six cases in federal court against debt collectors, and now you can win two. [18:14.800 --> 18:20.800] You'll get step-by-step instructions in plain English on how to win in court using federal civil rights statutes. [18:20.800 --> 18:24.800] What to do when contacted by phone, mail, or court summons. [18:24.800 --> 18:26.800] How to answer letters and phone calls. [18:26.800 --> 18:28.800] How to get debt collectors out of your credit report. [18:28.800 --> 18:33.800] How to turn the financial tables on them and make them pay you to go away. [18:33.800 --> 18:38.800] The Michael Mears proven method is the solution for how to stop debt collectors. [18:38.800 --> 18:40.800] Personal consultation is available as well. [18:40.800 --> 18:49.800] For more information, please visit ruleoflawradio.com and click on the blue Michael Mears banner or email michaelmears at yahoo.com. [18:49.800 --> 19:00.800] Visit ruleoflawradio.com or email michaelmears at yahoo.com to learn how to stop debt collectors now. [19:00.800 --> 19:23.800] Music [19:23.800 --> 19:33.800] Music [19:33.800 --> 19:43.800] Music [19:43.800 --> 19:53.800] Music [19:53.800 --> 20:03.800] Music [20:03.800 --> 20:13.800] Music [20:13.800 --> 20:37.800] Music [20:37.800 --> 20:44.800] Music [20:44.800 --> 21:11.800] Music [21:11.800 --> 21:21.800] Music [21:21.800 --> 21:31.800] Music [21:31.800 --> 21:41.800] Music [22:01.800 --> 22:11.800] Music [22:31.800 --> 22:41.800] Music [23:01.800 --> 23:11.800] Music [23:31.800 --> 23:41.800] Music [24:01.800 --> 24:11.800] Music [24:31.800 --> 24:41.800] Music [25:01.800 --> 25:11.800] Music [25:31.800 --> 25:41.800] Music [26:01.800 --> 26:11.800] Music [26:31.800 --> 26:41.800] Music [27:01.800 --> 27:11.800] Music [27:31.800 --> 27:41.800] Music [28:01.800 --> 28:03.800] Sorry, Karen. [28:03.800 --> 28:12.800] Well, that's exactly where we are in this whole public debate about hand counted paper ballot elections, Deborah. [28:12.800 --> 28:15.800] And that was our emphasis this past Tuesday. [28:15.800 --> 28:23.800] In the past, just to clarify for people who are familiar with Vote Rescue and what we've done in previous elections, [28:23.800 --> 28:35.800] we have held what we call our parallel elections in which we are actually taking a handful of the races that are being voted on on the machines. [28:35.800 --> 28:37.800] We're creating our own unofficial ballot. [28:37.800 --> 28:44.800] We're inviting voters who are coming out of a particular polling place to vote once more. [28:44.800 --> 28:47.800] Yes, you can vote twice, but our time is not the official count. [28:47.800 --> 28:49.800] And they can vote on our ballot. [28:49.800 --> 28:53.800] But it typically has been a limited ballot, a shortened ballot. [28:53.800 --> 29:03.800] And then at the close of polls after all these volunteer second voters that we'll call them have voted on a paper ballot, [29:03.800 --> 29:10.800] at the close of polls then we bring in our team that's at the polling place will then sit down and publicly count the ballots. [29:10.800 --> 29:21.800] And in that way we have been able to more or less, there's a comparison between what our results are on the outside versus what the official results are coming off of the machines. [29:21.800 --> 29:25.800] And so that's in essence is a parallel election. [29:25.800 --> 29:33.800] We've done these not so much to try and catch the, you know, if there is a difference, I hear the music. [29:33.800 --> 29:34.800] You hear the music. [29:34.800 --> 29:35.800] Yes. [29:35.800 --> 29:39.800] Can you ladies, excuse me, stay on for another segment or two? [29:39.800 --> 29:41.800] Yes, I can. [29:41.800 --> 29:42.800] Okay, excellent. [29:42.800 --> 29:49.800] All right, we'll be right back with Karen Renick and Vicki Karp from VoteRescue.org, two of my best friends in the whole universe. [29:49.800 --> 29:59.800] We're talking about parallel elections and how to do it the right way, either do it the right way or not. [29:59.800 --> 30:03.800] Christ fed them multitudes with only one loaf of bread. [30:03.800 --> 30:05.800] Poor people, there's something for you. [30:05.800 --> 30:08.800] Austin's own Caribbean, one love kitchen. [30:08.800 --> 30:10.800] On the banks of the Colorado River. [30:10.800 --> 30:13.800] At 3109 East First Street is where you find One Love Kitchen. [30:13.800 --> 30:16.800] Jerk chicken, vegetarian restaurant. [30:16.800 --> 30:19.800] Monday through Wednesday, lunch and dinner, $5.00. [30:19.800 --> 30:23.800] Friday and Saturday, we got late night with Emperor Sound Crew, still $5.00 plates. [30:23.800 --> 30:29.800] Jerk chicken and vegetarian place to beat One Love Kitchen, Austin, Texas. [30:29.800 --> 30:31.800] Is noise at work killing you? [30:31.800 --> 30:33.800] Could be, say researchers. [30:33.800 --> 30:38.800] A new study finds that hearing loss may be the least of your health worries in a loud workplace. [30:38.800 --> 30:42.800] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll be back to tell you more in just a moment. [30:42.800 --> 30:49.800] Your search engine is watching you, recording all your searches and creating a massive database of your personal information. [30:49.800 --> 30:50.800] That's creepy. [30:50.800 --> 30:52.800] But it doesn't have to be that way. [30:52.800 --> 30:55.800] Startpage.com is the world's most private search engine. [30:55.800 --> 31:02.800] Startpage doesn't store your IP address, make a record of your searches or use tracking cookies, and they're third-party certified. [31:02.800 --> 31:06.800] If you don't like big brother spying on you, start over with Startpage. [31:06.800 --> 31:09.800] Great search results and total privacy. [31:09.800 --> 31:12.800] Startpage.com, the world's most private search engine. [31:12.800 --> 31:15.800] Noise at work could be killing you, literally. [31:15.800 --> 31:20.800] A new study looked at employees who worked in noisy environments for at least a year and a half. [31:20.800 --> 31:25.800] They found their risk of serious heart trouble was triple that of employees who worked in a quiet environment. [31:25.800 --> 31:27.800] What is a noisy workspace? [31:27.800 --> 31:31.800] Researchers say if you have to raise your voice to carry on a normal conversation, it's noisy. [31:31.800 --> 31:37.800] By that definition, more than 22 million Americans face noise hazards on the job every day. [31:37.800 --> 31:42.800] If finding a quieter job isn't an option, take precautions to help offset the effects of noise. [31:42.800 --> 31:47.800] Use earplugs, take good care of yourself, and limit the other stressors in your life. [31:47.800 --> 32:02.800] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht. More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com. [32:02.800 --> 32:08.800] Yes, Mr. Officer, you've taken the right hand. [32:08.800 --> 32:12.800] Won't you follow the law of the land? [32:12.800 --> 32:17.800] The law of the land is bad. The job is to protect our service. [32:17.800 --> 32:20.800] Not be Arabians. [32:20.800 --> 32:23.800] Not this bad. [32:23.800 --> 32:28.800] When you're gonna stop abuse, you're a power. [32:28.800 --> 32:34.800] When you're gonna stop abuse, you're a power. [32:34.800 --> 32:39.800] When you're gonna stop abuse, you're a power. [32:39.800 --> 32:44.800] When you're gonna stop abuse, you're a power. [32:44.800 --> 32:50.800] So please, Mr. Macklin, teach officers how to abuse their power. [32:50.800 --> 32:55.800] Send a request to the leaders, the captain of all officers. [32:55.800 --> 33:01.800] Tell them to uphold the law, and please don't abuse their power. [33:01.800 --> 33:06.800] The beat and the beat and the cheat and the cheat and the light every hour. [33:06.800 --> 33:12.800] So, Mr. Officer, please stop abusing your power. [33:12.800 --> 33:17.800] You pulled me over. I tell me to be silent, sir. [33:17.800 --> 33:22.800] I need to speak to my lawyer, Mr. Officer. [33:22.800 --> 33:29.800] Okay, folks, we are back. We're talking with Karen Renick and Vicki Karp of VoteRescue.org. [33:29.800 --> 33:36.800] Okay, so Vicki gave you an example of how we ran a paper ballot election at my homeowners' association, [33:36.800 --> 33:41.800] and so why don't you tell us what you guys did on Tuesday [33:41.800 --> 33:46.800] and what y'all are finding to be the most effective means of counting paper ballots, [33:46.800 --> 33:49.800] and is it similar to what we had, to what we did? [33:49.800 --> 33:56.800] There's some similarities of what we were doing Tuesday to what you were describing, Deborah. [33:56.800 --> 34:00.800] What we were doing Tuesday, and Karen was starting to explain how it was a little different [34:00.800 --> 34:03.800] from our typical parallel election we've held in the past, [34:03.800 --> 34:09.800] where we were seeking to compare our results to the, quote-unquote, official results inside, [34:09.800 --> 34:14.800] and we have found differences with certain candidates, notably, let's say, Ron Paul, [34:14.800 --> 34:18.800] when he was running for president, you know, not too surprising. [34:18.800 --> 34:23.800] We find other candidates, you know, similar numbers, similar percentages, [34:23.800 --> 34:25.800] and Ron Paul's numbers would be off. [34:25.800 --> 34:28.800] We did that, I guess we did exit polls at that time. [34:28.800 --> 34:32.800] But what we were doing this time on Tuesday was we were really researching [34:32.800 --> 34:36.800] a couple of different hand-count methods, so we weren't seeking to compare results. [34:36.800 --> 34:41.800] We were seeking to get as many ballots voted, and we, you know, we voted some, [34:41.800 --> 34:45.800] and we had people come around and vote that were at the city hall, [34:45.800 --> 34:49.800] and we were just trying to get several hundred ballots together so that at 7 o'clock [34:49.800 --> 34:51.800] we could do two different types of hand-counts, [34:51.800 --> 34:56.800] and one, which is kind of similar to what you were describing, Deborah, [34:56.800 --> 35:02.800] is actually sort of blessed by our Secretary of State's election division. [35:02.800 --> 35:06.800] They have a video on it on their Web site, which we showed during training, [35:06.800 --> 35:13.800] and in that mode, one person reads off the votes, off the ballot, [35:13.800 --> 35:16.800] and three different talliers, this is what's similar to what you were describing, [35:16.800 --> 35:20.800] three different people are putting a tally mark on a tally sheet. [35:20.800 --> 35:24.800] So you hope that they all three will match up at the end, like what you were describing. [35:24.800 --> 35:28.800] Yeah, and you hope that the one reading it is actually reading it correctly. [35:28.800 --> 35:31.800] Yeah, because there's not, you know, there's not a system, [35:31.800 --> 35:36.800] at least from what we could discern, there's not a system built in for a monitor there, [35:36.800 --> 35:42.800] although in the video there was a poll watcher who was watching maybe one tallier, [35:42.800 --> 35:45.800] but, you know, one person watching, as you noted yourself, [35:45.800 --> 35:48.800] can't really watch everything that's going on in that scenario. [35:48.800 --> 35:52.800] Luckily, the minute difference that happened in your election [35:52.800 --> 35:55.800] wasn't big enough to make a difference to any of the others. [35:55.800 --> 35:58.800] Well, and also in our election, it wasn't one person holding it [35:58.800 --> 36:00.800] and reading it off to the other talliers. [36:00.800 --> 36:02.800] Every tallier got to look at the ballot themselves. [36:02.800 --> 36:04.800] Oh, I see, so it was a little different. [36:04.800 --> 36:05.800] Yeah, yeah. [36:05.800 --> 36:08.800] It was like the first one would look at the ballot, do the tally, [36:08.800 --> 36:10.800] and then pass the ballot to the second one. [36:10.800 --> 36:14.800] Ah, okay, well that's a little variation on what we did. [36:14.800 --> 36:18.800] And then the other method that we were using is one that we have used in the past [36:18.800 --> 36:22.800] in our parallel elections and counting our exit poll results, [36:22.800 --> 36:28.800] and also what we've done, we've helped execute elections for the Public Access TV stations, [36:28.800 --> 36:33.800] Producers Council meeting for the Libertarian State Convention in June, [36:33.800 --> 36:38.800] and other organizations we've helped, and what that involved is four people. [36:38.800 --> 36:42.800] One person is the reader, so they're reading off the ballot, [36:42.800 --> 36:46.800] who, you know, who's the winners of the candidates and propositions, [36:46.800 --> 36:50.800] and that reader has an observer watching them. [36:50.800 --> 36:55.800] And then on the other side of the table is a tallier marking tally marks on a tally sheet, [36:55.800 --> 36:58.800] and that person has an observer watching them. [36:58.800 --> 37:04.800] So you have, you know, 50 percent of the action is observers. [37:04.800 --> 37:06.800] And we found that to be a really good system. [37:06.800 --> 37:12.800] Now, what we encountered on Tuesday was it was a cold and rainy night, [37:12.800 --> 37:17.800] and we didn't have ideal conditions for our volunteers, [37:17.800 --> 37:20.800] and they were getting kind of cold and uncomfortable. [37:20.800 --> 37:24.800] So we didn't get as far with our counting as we wanted to that evening. [37:24.800 --> 37:28.800] We decided to let everybody reach a sort of a stopping point. [37:28.800 --> 37:32.800] We had divided up the ballots into batches of 24, [37:32.800 --> 37:35.800] and each team had about three batches of 24, [37:35.800 --> 37:39.800] and we had two groups that were counting according to the Secretary of State's method, [37:39.800 --> 37:42.800] and we had three counting according to what we call the boat rescue method. [37:42.800 --> 37:49.800] And we didn't quite get as much data as we would like to be able to make a clear comparison [37:49.800 --> 37:54.800] between those two or the timing because of certain things, you know, the conditions. [37:54.800 --> 37:57.800] Also, there were a couple of errors on our forms. [37:57.800 --> 38:03.800] And what we did get, though, was we had a bunch of very enthusiastic volunteers [38:03.800 --> 38:07.800] who liked what they were doing and we think would be willing to come back [38:07.800 --> 38:10.800] because what we're going to do is just bring those ballots back. [38:10.800 --> 38:13.800] They're not state-sensitive to the election [38:13.800 --> 38:17.800] because we were never really, you know, comparing results on election night. [38:17.800 --> 38:19.800] So what we're inviting them to do is to come back. [38:19.800 --> 38:26.800] We're going to find a nice, warm inside venue that is volunteer-friendly [38:26.800 --> 38:29.800] and really sort of recreate the whole experiment. [38:29.800 --> 38:31.800] And the reason that we're doing this, really, [38:31.800 --> 38:33.800] I just want to just get down to the basics. [38:33.800 --> 38:37.800] What we are being told over and over again by our so-called elected officials [38:37.800 --> 38:39.800] is that we can't do hand-counted paper ballots [38:39.800 --> 38:41.800] because, oh, my God, it would take so many people. [38:41.800 --> 38:42.800] How are we going to get all these people? [38:42.800 --> 38:44.800] And it would cost so much money. [38:44.800 --> 38:46.800] And we don't believe that. [38:46.800 --> 38:51.800] And the data that they're using to back that up, we question. [38:51.800 --> 38:54.800] And so by doing what we're doing here, this little research project, [38:54.800 --> 38:59.800] and how many seconds does it really take to read off one race [38:59.800 --> 39:01.800] and for the tallier to mark it down? [39:01.800 --> 39:04.800] And the difference between our estimates, for example, [39:04.800 --> 39:08.800] last year at this Travis County Election Study Group we participated in, [39:08.800 --> 39:10.800] the difference between our estimates of time [39:10.800 --> 39:14.800] and the county's estimates were ours were half as many seconds [39:14.800 --> 39:15.800] as what they were saying. [39:15.800 --> 39:18.800] And the difference means twice as much money or people. [39:18.800 --> 39:21.800] So the real answer to that could be very illuminating [39:21.800 --> 39:27.800] in terms of what the real cost in terms of people and dollars would be. [39:27.800 --> 39:33.800] Right, and I'm sure it is a fraction of what it takes to pay for these voting machines. [39:33.800 --> 39:40.800] Well, actually, we did our own cost analysis, Deborah. [39:40.800 --> 39:43.800] Actually, we brought in experts to do that. [39:43.800 --> 39:48.800] And this is another area of serious contention we have with the county [39:48.800 --> 39:51.800] because they basically hold the keys to the castle [39:51.800 --> 39:57.800] in terms of understanding all the processes that go on in preparing for elections [39:57.800 --> 40:03.800] and the intensity of the effort, whether it's paper ballots or preparing machines. [40:03.800 --> 40:09.800] And so they're claiming our analysis fell short in understanding the full process, [40:09.800 --> 40:15.800] but of course they're basically monitoring themselves. [40:15.800 --> 40:26.800] I mean, it's not an impartial analysis if you have the county basically providing the analysis of the systems. [40:26.800 --> 40:31.800] But we tried to do it using professional consultants. [40:31.800 --> 40:37.800] And from our effort, which I thought was the best that one could do [40:37.800 --> 40:39.800] without knowing all the inside information, [40:39.800 --> 40:44.800] and actually we did use a lot of information provided by the county, [40:44.800 --> 40:56.800] it is not an inexpensive process if you want to pay people to provide their services on election night. [40:56.800 --> 40:59.800] I mean, we went on that premise that we would be paying, [40:59.800 --> 41:03.800] I mean, I don't want to get into numbers and get bogged down in this, [41:03.800 --> 41:12.800] but we were paying a reasonable amount, you know, $10 to $12 an hour. [41:12.800 --> 41:25.800] And our totals actually came out working out to be very much similar to what it costs to run an election using the machines. [41:25.800 --> 41:30.800] And this is sort of prorating the cost of the machines over a certain number of years and all this stuff. [41:30.800 --> 41:34.800] But our point is that, okay, elections are expensive, [41:34.800 --> 41:42.800] especially if you're going to pay people to count and participate, [41:42.800 --> 41:48.800] but we say why are we spending all that money and giving it to these private corporations [41:48.800 --> 41:54.800] when we could be paying the same amount of money to people who are in our community, [41:54.800 --> 41:57.800] and that money stays in our community. [41:57.800 --> 42:01.800] It doesn't get siphoned out by the vendors. [42:01.800 --> 42:06.800] So we present that as an argument, I think a very plausible one, [42:06.800 --> 42:10.800] for, you know, when we start getting into this nitty-gritty thing about cost [42:10.800 --> 42:14.800] because that's where all these discussions usually end up, [42:14.800 --> 42:20.800] and then we say, well, if it's the right way, then, you know, it costs what it costs. [42:20.800 --> 42:23.800] Yeah, it's like that, you know, the MasterCard ad. [42:23.800 --> 42:30.800] You know, it's really having an honest transparent election run by citizens is a priceless situation. [42:30.800 --> 42:33.800] Well, yeah, I mean, when you're getting into the cost, okay, [42:33.800 --> 42:37.800] so say if it's volunteer run only, yeah, it's going to be a fraction of the cost, [42:37.800 --> 42:40.800] and not only is it cheaper, but even if you're going to pay people, [42:40.800 --> 42:42.800] it comes out about the same. [42:42.800 --> 42:43.800] So what's the deal, people? [42:43.800 --> 42:44.800] What is the deal? [42:44.800 --> 42:48.800] I mean, obviously, Houston, we have a problem here. [42:48.800 --> 42:54.800] Deborah, I wanted to mention another aspect of what we did this past Tuesday night. [42:54.800 --> 43:01.800] Another criteria that was high on our list was the high visibility factor. [43:01.800 --> 43:07.800] We wanted to be demonstrating what a totally transparent election looks like [43:07.800 --> 43:17.800] in a location where we would get noticed, and so that's why we picked City Hall Plaza. [43:17.800 --> 43:21.800] It's one of those locations here in Travis County. [43:21.800 --> 43:25.800] It had a lot of the amenities we needed because we knew we would be outside. [43:25.800 --> 43:30.800] You know, we're still outsiders, literally. [43:30.800 --> 43:33.800] I never thought of it that way, Karen, but you're so right. [43:33.800 --> 43:36.800] You know, it was, you know, we wanted to demonstrate we're still outside, [43:36.800 --> 43:42.800] shivering in the cold, but we're in the right, and the city is next. [43:42.800 --> 43:44.800] Okay, yeah, and you know what, speaking of that, [43:44.800 --> 43:48.800] I'm about done with these city officials in the county. [43:48.800 --> 43:52.800] I think it's time to sue Travis County over this. [43:52.800 --> 43:55.800] I'm going to be cooking up a lawsuit over this, [43:55.800 --> 44:00.800] but we're going to hear from Karen and Vicki some more on the other side. [44:00.800 --> 44:02.800] More energy. [44:02.800 --> 44:04.800] Stronger immune power. [44:04.800 --> 44:07.800] Improved sense of well-being. [44:07.800 --> 44:11.800] How many supplements have you heard boast of these benefits? [44:11.800 --> 44:16.800] The team behind Centrition believes that supplements should over-deliver on their promises, [44:16.800 --> 44:20.800] and Centrition does just that. [44:20.800 --> 44:24.800] Centrition utilizes the ancient healing wisdom of Chinese medicine. [44:24.800 --> 44:27.800] In conjunction with the science of modern nutrition, [44:27.800 --> 44:30.800] adaptogenic herbs serve as the healing component, [44:30.800 --> 44:37.800] and organic hemp protein in greens and super foods act as a balanced nutrient base. 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[45:39.800 --> 45:43.800] For cleaning out heavy metals, parasites and toxins, [45:43.800 --> 45:48.800] order it now for daily intake and stock it now for long-term storage. [45:48.800 --> 46:13.800] Visit hempusa.org or call 908-691-2608 today. [46:13.800 --> 46:18.800] If you did not have any problems, where are you going to look for one? [46:18.800 --> 46:24.800] If you could not reach any back to love, would your purpose have to be done? [46:24.800 --> 46:30.800] Don't just stand around a soldier or warrior up low, scoupling the key to the key. [46:30.800 --> 46:36.800] All they're taking is a misunderstanding, and somebody calls the police. [46:36.800 --> 47:00.800] Why do the sparks fly? [47:00.800 --> 47:02.800] The prison isn't the section. [47:02.800 --> 47:06.800] The hard work can leave you cold as nails. [47:06.800 --> 47:09.800] And then after they've hit, you're trying to quit the key. [47:09.800 --> 47:12.800] A heavy load of tape and unscathed. [47:12.800 --> 47:15.800] The time has come all in with subconscious. [47:15.800 --> 47:18.800] You find out after a while. [47:18.800 --> 47:21.800] Okay, folks, we are back. [47:21.800 --> 47:25.800] Okay, so ladies, why don't you tell us in this next segment, [47:25.800 --> 47:32.800] what was the reaction of the general public to this parallel election or this demonstration [47:32.800 --> 47:34.800] that you all had at City Council? [47:34.800 --> 47:39.800] And then please get into just a summary concerning the County Commissioner's Court. [47:39.800 --> 47:41.800] Well, I'll take that first part. [47:41.800 --> 47:43.800] This is Vicki. [47:43.800 --> 47:47.800] You know, people love voting with us at these parallel elections, [47:47.800 --> 47:51.800] and you see a light bulb come on with a lot of these people when they come over [47:51.800 --> 47:54.800] and ask what we're doing and invite them to vote with us. [47:54.800 --> 47:58.800] And as they're filling out the ballot, a lot of times we'll hear people say things like, [47:58.800 --> 48:03.800] you know, I never really felt real certain about those machines. [48:03.800 --> 48:07.800] I just always kind of in the back of my mind thought, what's really happening with my vote there? [48:07.800 --> 48:09.800] And we say, yes, exactly. [48:09.800 --> 48:13.800] And that's the whole point is that nobody can guarantee that your vote is being counted as cast. [48:13.800 --> 48:19.800] So I think it just sort of brings up to the forefront of people's minds the fact that our current voting system [48:19.800 --> 48:23.800] is totally non-transparent, and it's, as we call it, faith-based voting [48:23.800 --> 48:28.800] because they're relying on the machine and the election officials to assure you that, [48:28.800 --> 48:30.800] oh, yeah, your vote is being counted the way you cast it. [48:30.800 --> 48:32.800] Just don't worry about it. [48:32.800 --> 48:33.800] This is totally ridiculous. [48:33.800 --> 48:37.800] And as Karen says, often says, I don't know if that was from Benjamin Franklin, [48:37.800 --> 48:40.800] that quote about elections should be about distrust. [48:40.800 --> 48:42.800] Is that a Ben Franklin quote, Karen? [48:42.800 --> 48:48.800] Yes, this quote is that distrust and patience are the parents of security. [48:48.800 --> 48:53.800] And that's what we have here is that it really is about distrust. [48:53.800 --> 48:57.800] And so because we know that people are going to cheat. [48:57.800 --> 48:59.800] People want to steal elections. [48:59.800 --> 49:01.800] There is always going to be fraud. [49:01.800 --> 49:11.800] And we just got to have, you just have to be able to minimize the ability or the ease of stealing an election. [49:11.800 --> 49:14.800] And that's why you have every step of the process visible. [49:14.800 --> 49:16.800] So the public was pretty receptive to this. [49:16.800 --> 49:19.800] Did you all get a large degree of participation? [49:19.800 --> 49:21.800] We did among the people who were there. [49:21.800 --> 49:24.800] There weren't a whole lot of people there that day. [49:24.800 --> 49:29.800] A lot of people that voted at that precinct, just like all around town, voted early. [49:29.800 --> 49:31.800] So there were not a huge number of voters. [49:31.800 --> 49:36.800] But amongst the people who were there, we got a pretty good rate of participation. [49:36.800 --> 49:41.800] And it was so exhilarating to watch our volunteers get out there and talk to these people. [49:41.800 --> 49:44.800] Karen and I are so used to always being the ones to do that, [49:44.800 --> 49:47.800] you know, explain to people what we're doing, blah, blah, blah. [49:47.800 --> 49:49.800] And, you know, our volunteers would just jump out there and say, [49:49.800 --> 49:51.800] hey, would you like to vote in our parallel election day? [49:51.800 --> 49:52.800] Let's explain to you. [49:52.800 --> 49:53.800] This is the people's hand count. [49:53.800 --> 49:55.800] They would explain what we were doing. [49:55.800 --> 49:57.800] And they did such a beautiful job. [49:57.800 --> 50:06.800] And we always, one of our favorite parts about doing these types of actions is watching the enthusiasm of our volunteers. [50:06.800 --> 50:13.800] We have a lot of people who have been volunteering with us for ever since we started our first parallel election five years ago. [50:13.800 --> 50:19.800] We had people on Tuesday who were helping us in 2005 do the same thing. [50:19.800 --> 50:22.800] And then we have new people that are doing it for the first time. [50:22.800 --> 50:24.800] And we watch how enthusiastic they are. [50:24.800 --> 50:27.800] It's the same thing with them as it is with the public. [50:27.800 --> 50:32.800] They just – it's sort of a passion that just sort of catches, you know, just catches fire in your heart. [50:32.800 --> 50:35.800] It's like this is what an election is supposed to be. [50:35.800 --> 50:38.800] Very exciting to experience and to watch. [50:38.800 --> 50:48.800] Absolutely. And we did get a number of people comment. They said, gosh, it didn't take me as long to vote on this ballot as it did inside on me. [50:48.800 --> 50:50.800] That's great. That's awesome. [50:50.800 --> 50:52.800] Well, I'm glad to hear it was very well received. [50:52.800 --> 51:02.800] And, yeah, once people see it, it's kind of like, you know, selling ice cream cones, you know, on a 110-degree day. [51:02.800 --> 51:04.800] It doesn't take much. [51:04.800 --> 51:08.800] So, okay, so we've got a few minutes left here in this segment. [51:08.800 --> 51:19.800] Why don't you all give us a recap of the County Commissioner's Court debacle, fiasco, as it were, and what is the situation as it stands now? [51:19.800 --> 51:20.800] Well, I'll dive in here. [51:20.800 --> 51:21.800] Yeah, sure. [51:21.800 --> 51:22.800] Molly, just back and forth. [51:22.800 --> 51:23.800] Yeah. [51:23.800 --> 51:24.800] Go ahead. [51:24.800 --> 51:25.800] Let me just go back. [51:25.800 --> 51:32.800] There's a history about this that all culminated in this October 19th session. [51:32.800 --> 51:34.800] And I'll try to be very brief about it. [51:34.800 --> 51:43.800] Basically, two years ago, after Vote Rescue and other groups that have been supporting us had been going to the Commissioner's Court for a long time, [51:43.800 --> 51:50.800] bringing them evidence of how easily these machines can be manipulated and that they're secretly counting their votes. [51:50.800 --> 51:57.800] They finally cried uncle and said, okay, we'll commission a study. [51:57.800 --> 52:06.800] And we're going to put the county clerk who administers the elections in the county in charge of this study. [52:06.800 --> 52:11.800] Which we refer to as like asking a bank to audit itself. [52:11.800 --> 52:16.800] So she was put in charge of doing this so-called election study group. [52:16.800 --> 52:19.800] And she's convened two of these in the past. [52:19.800 --> 52:28.800] And the results of the last one she convened in 1998, I think it was, or 99, that's when they decided that getting the results back [52:28.800 --> 52:34.800] by the 10 o'clock news was one of the most top three important criteria. [52:34.800 --> 52:40.800] And that was part of the reason why they picked the hardner civic machines, for one thing. [52:40.800 --> 52:53.800] So you can see right there that the so-called study groups don't do, I think, a good job in terms of coming up with the best criteria for elections. [52:53.800 --> 52:57.800] And typically in the past she's had 20-some participants. [52:57.800 --> 53:00.800] Well, this time she decided to invite 45 people. [53:00.800 --> 53:08.800] So right from the beginning it was really not a study group that could sit around the table and talk about security issues [53:08.800 --> 53:16.800] and all the different issues about elections and look at them in terms of three possible systems. [53:16.800 --> 53:21.800] You know, we supposedly talked about the system that we use now. [53:21.800 --> 53:24.800] We also talked about going to scanners. [53:24.800 --> 53:27.800] And the third one was hand-counted paper ballots. [53:27.800 --> 53:32.800] So we achieved some sort of a victory there and at least bringing it, putting it on the table. [53:32.800 --> 53:44.800] Well, the study group itself was a total sham because it was the county clerk basically just teaching an elections 101 class. [53:44.800 --> 53:54.800] And they never really got into any of the, you know, discussions about the security and all the reports about the problems with these machines. [53:54.800 --> 54:01.800] It wasn't until we were given the floor that rescue was allowed to present the option of hand-counted paper ballots. [54:01.800 --> 54:05.800] So two-thirds of our presentation was basically covering security. [54:05.800 --> 54:10.800] Well, anyway, with that said and done, it took nearly two years. [54:10.800 --> 54:21.800] Well, it was practically two years to the day to finally have the county clerk come back to the county commissioners with the results of this study group. [54:21.800 --> 54:29.800] And we found that it was all, it had all been preordained in terms of how the commissioners were going to, [54:29.800 --> 54:31.800] whether they would approve it or not. [54:31.800 --> 54:43.800] They had clearly made their decision to go along with what the county clerk had presented despite the fact that we had a number of people come that day. [54:43.800 --> 54:46.800] Vicki, how many people would you say, 12 people maybe? [54:46.800 --> 54:48.800] No, yeah, 12 or 15 people. [54:48.800 --> 54:57.800] Yeah, and we had been bringing people with us week after week before that too, asking for a hearing, asking for a paper ballot option, but being totally ignored. [54:57.800 --> 55:02.800] That's saying, no, we're going to wait until the 19th when the clerk shows up with her recommendations. [55:02.800 --> 55:04.800] Oh, boy, that is just criminal. [55:04.800 --> 55:09.800] And I'll tell you what, you know, I'm sorry, ladies, I didn't have time to participate in all this the last few months, [55:09.800 --> 55:13.800] but when you all start up this whole thing again with the county commissioners' court, [55:13.800 --> 55:19.800] let me know because this time I'm going to bring in the reports from the examiners who were hired by the Secretary of State. [55:19.800 --> 55:25.800] And in their own reports, and I pulled this off of the Secretary of State website where it said there were all these problems [55:25.800 --> 55:30.800] and they even had to enter in the results of the election in order to get the machines to work at all the first time. [55:30.800 --> 55:41.800] And only one of the examiners at the end of their report said, no, that's it, we're going to, I am going to recommend against these machines. [55:41.800 --> 55:48.800] But all the other examiners, they opted to recommend for the machines even though they admitted in their own reports all these problems. [55:48.800 --> 55:49.800] Exactly. [55:49.800 --> 55:50.800] And so that should be presented. [55:50.800 --> 55:56.800] Those reports are scathing, some of them is scathing evidence against the machines, and yet in the bottom line, [55:56.800 --> 55:59.800] we did, well, yes, we actually, we did. [55:59.800 --> 56:04.800] We had some, quote, Nancy Robbins actually had brought some of that up too, our Vogue Rescue friend. [56:04.800 --> 56:09.800] But, you know, the bottom line of all this, when all of this settles, what we ended up with in Travis County, [56:09.800 --> 56:15.800] thanks to Dana de Beauvoir and the commissioners on October 19, is three more years of these paperless, [56:15.800 --> 56:21.800] non-transparent, corporate-controlled, unconstitutional, security-ridden voting machines. [56:21.800 --> 56:24.800] That's what we have, three more years of the same. [56:24.800 --> 56:29.800] And then maybe they're going to do paper with scanners? [56:29.800 --> 56:30.800] Maybe. [56:30.800 --> 56:36.800] And are the scanners going to be at the precincts or are they going to be at some central tabulation area? [56:36.800 --> 56:41.800] Well, we're not sure, but we think it's going to be precinct scanners as part of the system. [56:41.800 --> 56:45.800] But, you know, we don't know yet what that's going to be. [56:45.800 --> 56:51.800] And for anyone that's not familiar with the DVD, the HGO documentary, Hacking Democracy, [56:51.800 --> 56:57.800] if you want to find out what you can do with a scanner to flip an election, be sure and watch Hacking Democracy. [56:57.800 --> 57:01.800] You can even Google, you can YouTube components of it. [57:01.800 --> 57:06.800] There's a hack of an optical scan counter that's just to take your breath away. [57:06.800 --> 57:13.800] Yeah, and I think even Stanford University did a study on one of these scanners and it showed that among many things, [57:13.800 --> 57:17.800] one of the things was that during test mode it looked like it worked fine, [57:17.800 --> 57:23.800] but then when it went into real lifetime mode, election mode, it was totally wrong. [57:23.800 --> 57:33.800] Heaven forbid that one of the priorities of these people that look at this type of criteria be that the count be accurate first and foremost. [57:33.800 --> 57:34.800] Yeah, exactly. [57:34.800 --> 57:38.800] And that can't even be proven anyway, even if they like to call it a criteria. [57:38.800 --> 57:39.800] Can I briefly mention Germany? [57:39.800 --> 57:45.800] Yes, and actually there are some callers that want to talk to you ladies, so if you could stay over, that would be great. [57:45.800 --> 57:47.800] Okay. [57:47.800 --> 57:54.800] Okay, let's explain what other countries, you know, where other countries are on this, [57:54.800 --> 57:57.800] because electronic voting is not just unique to the United States, [57:57.800 --> 58:04.800] although I'd say majority of the world's voters do vote on paper ballots that are hand counted, [58:04.800 --> 58:08.800] but you do have other countries that have gone to electronic voting. [58:08.800 --> 58:11.800] So maybe I'll finish up on that on the other side. [58:11.800 --> 58:12.800] Yes, you can finish up on the other side. [58:12.800 --> 58:19.800] We've got Rob in Connecticut that wants to talk to you ladies, and there was a Richard in Texas that called in for you all. [58:19.800 --> 58:20.800] Richard's now dropped off the line. [58:20.800 --> 58:29.800] So Richard, Karen and Vicki are staying over through the top of the hour break, so please call back in, and then we'll go to Charles. [58:29.800 --> 58:31.800] All right, folks, stay tuned. [58:31.800 --> 58:34.800] We're going to finish up with Karen and Vicki on the other side. [58:34.800 --> 58:37.800] This is the rule of law, ruleoflawradio.com. [58:37.800 --> 58:59.800] Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig and Deborah Stevens. [58:59.800 --> 59:03.800] The Bible remains the most popular book in the world, [59:03.800 --> 59:07.800] yet countless readers are frustrated because they struggle to understand it. [59:07.800 --> 59:11.800] Some new translations try to help by simplifying the text, [59:11.800 --> 59:16.800] but in the process can compromise the profound meaning of the scripture. [59:16.800 --> 59:18.800] Enter the recovery version. [59:18.800 --> 59:22.800] First, this new translation is extremely faithful and accurate, [59:22.800 --> 59:27.800] but the real story is the more than 9,000 explanatory footnotes. [59:27.800 --> 59:31.800] Difficult and profound passages are opened up in a marvelous way, [59:31.800 --> 59:37.800] providing an entrance into the riches of the Word beyond which you've ever experienced before. [59:37.800 --> 59:42.800] Bibles for America would like to give you a free recovery version simply for the asking. [59:42.800 --> 59:53.800] This comprehensive yet compact study Bible is yours just by calling us toll free at 1-888-551-0102 [59:53.800 --> 59:57.800] or by ordering online at freestudybible.com. [59:57.800 --> 59:59.800] That's freestudybible.com. [59:59.800 --> 01:00:03.800] This news brief brought to you by the International News Net. [01:00:03.800 --> 01:00:09.800] The U.S. is bolstering its presence in Afghanistan with a $500 million expansion [01:00:09.800 --> 01:00:13.800] of its Kabul embassy and the construction of two consulates. [01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:19.800] Washington's Kabul embassy is already the biggest in the world with about 1,100 employees. [01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:25.800] The construction has been awarded to a U.S. company, Kadol Construction Inc. [01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:30.800] In the midst of a cholera outbreak, authorities in Haiti are planning mass evacuations [01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:35.800] from tent cities ahead of Hurricane Tomas set to strike Thursday. [01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:40.800] 1.3 million Haitians, one-tenth of the population, are still living in tent cities [01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:46.800] after the January earthquake ravaged the nation killing 300,000 people. [01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:50.800] In Pakistan, 12 people were killed Wednesday and three separate, [01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:53.800] non-U.N.-sanctioned drone attacks in North Waziristan. [01:00:53.800 --> 01:00:58.800] Pakistani officials say the drone fired two missiles at a vehicle leaving five people dead. [01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:02.800] Hours later, another attack killed three people in the same region. [01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:06.800] In a third attack, a drone fired missiles at a car killing four people. [01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:12.800] The death toll is expected to rise as some of the injured are in critical condition. [01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:16.800] Yemen is intensifying its military campaign against al-Qaeda, [01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:21.800] even though most Yemenis consider the group a myth or a ploy by their president. [01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:25.800] The New York Times says those attitudes are complicating efforts [01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:30.800] to track down the perpetrators of the recent plot to send explosives by courier to the U.S. [01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:36.800] The Times says that view echoed across Yemen is not just a conspiracy theory. [01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:40.800] In recent years, the Yemeni government has used jihadists as proxy soldiers [01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:46.800] and sometimes conflate the al-Qaeda threat and unrelated political insurgencies. [01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:51.800] Abdullah al-Faki, a professor of political science at Sanaa University said, [01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:57.800] we cannot differentiate between what is propaganda and what is real. [01:01:57.800 --> 01:02:02.800] Daniel Pines, a senior CIA lawyer, asserted recently in a law journal [01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:06.800] the CIA's practice of kidnapping alleged terror suspects abroad, [01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:10.800] known as extraordinary rendition, is legal under U.S. law [01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:14.800] even when the suspect is turned over to countries that practice torture. [01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:19.800] One of the lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union said Pines' article, [01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:22.800] quote, does not address the most extreme form of rendition, [01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:28.800] renditions to black-site prisons where Americans are the jailers and the torturers, [01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:31.800] adding forced disappearance, arbitrary detention, [01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.800] and torture are prohibited under both U.S. and international law. [01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:39.800] Former CIA agent Bob Bayer has said of CIA renditions, [01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:43.800] quote, if you want someone really interrogated, you take him to Jordan. [01:02:43.800 --> 01:02:46.800] If you want them really abused, you go to Syria. [01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:50.800] And if you want them to disappear forever, you take them to Egypt. [01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:54.800] 14,000 prisoners have been swept up in the global war on terror [01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:58.800] and all are being held without charge. [01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:04.800] For more details on these stories, visit www.inmworldrecord.net. [01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:10.800] You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com. [01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:14.800] And Free Speech Talk Radio at its best. [01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:41.800] I'm Bob Bayer. [01:03:41.800 --> 01:04:03.800] I'm Bob Bayer. [01:04:03.800 --> 01:04:20.800] Okay, folks, we are back. [01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:23.800] All right, Karen, and we've got two callers on the line that want to talk to you ladies. [01:04:23.800 --> 01:04:26.800] We've got Rob in Connecticut, Richard in Texas. [01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:29.800] So we're going to go to your calls in just a moment. [01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:33.800] Karen, if you could finish up on what the deal is with Germany. [01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:37.800] Yes, and in March of 2009, [01:04:37.800 --> 01:04:43.800] there was a decision that was made by the High Constitutional Court in Germany, [01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:45.800] which is equivalent to our Supreme Court. [01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:49.800] And they were ruling on a case that had been brought before them [01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:55.800] about the issue of using electronic voting machines in elections in Germany. [01:04:55.800 --> 01:05:01.800] And the court, after it heard arguments from computer scientists and hackers [01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.800] and people who are very adept with computers [01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:09.800] but understand totally that these are not appropriate for use in elections, [01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:16.800] the court ruled that the use of electronic voting machines was unconstitutional [01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:19.800] because it doesn't meet the requirements for a public election [01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:26.800] where the public can actually see the process and know that their votes are being counted correctly. [01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:32.800] And then also they said that the process shouldn't be one [01:05:32.800 --> 01:05:38.800] in which a voter has to have a certain level of technical expertise [01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:42.800] to be able to understand how their vote is being counted. [01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:50.800] So what we have now is we have this tiered, you know, we have to believe experts at this point [01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:53.800] of, you know, the people who understand computers or whatever, [01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:57.800] they supposedly are the ones telling us that everything is fine, [01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:00.800] our election officials take on that role. [01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:07.800] We as the voters do not, you know, can't understand, can't get, you know, [01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:09.800] understand, you know, how these computers work. [01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:12.800] But even if you understood them it doesn't negate the fact [01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:18.800] that it's not a public count that can be observed. [01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:20.800] Therefore in Germany they declared it unconstitutional [01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:24.800] and they've also banned the machines in the Netherlands, in Ireland, [01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:29.800] and Scotland just has quit using electronic voting machines. [01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:32.800] So they realize what the danger is [01:06:32.800 --> 01:06:35.800] and Dan Rather just did a great report on HDNET [01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:41.800] that covered this movement in Europe going away from the machines for this very reason. [01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:42.800] Yeah, yeah. [01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:44.800] Well it sounds like they've got the right idea. [01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:45.800] Yeah. [01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:46.800] All right. [01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:47.800] Let's go to some calls here. [01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:49.800] We've got Richard in Texas and then we'll go to Rob. [01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:52.800] Richard, what is your question for Vicki and Karen? [01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:53.800] Hey, hi. [01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:54.800] Karen and Vicki. [01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:57.800] Thank y'all for the first visit. [01:06:57.800 --> 01:06:58.800] Richard Reed. [01:06:58.800 --> 01:06:59.800] Hey, this is Richard Reed. [01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:00.800] How are you doing? [01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:01.800] Yeah. [01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:03.800] I thought it was. [01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:05.800] Good to hear from you, Richard. [01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:06.800] I'm sorry? [01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:08.800] Good to hear from you. [01:07:08.800 --> 01:07:10.800] It's great to hear you guys and I attended a little late. [01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:12.800] I missed probably the first 20 minutes of the show, [01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:18.800] but what is y'all's take on the situation in Nevada, Clark County? [01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:23.800] Well, we've been so busy doing our own people's hand count here in Travis County. [01:07:23.800 --> 01:07:29.800] I am not up enough on the details to be able to really give an adequate assessment of it. [01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:31.800] Vicki, did you? [01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:33.800] I'm afraid I'm in the same boat. [01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:38.800] We've had our noses to our grindstone here and I'm just not in a position to assess it. [01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:44.800] I know that they were reporting that the machines during early voting were flipping votes. [01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:52.800] The machines weren't allowing, I guess, voters for Sharon Engel to hold on to her vote. [01:07:52.800 --> 01:07:54.800] They would flip over to Harry Reid. [01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:56.800] There were a lot of reports about that. [01:07:56.800 --> 01:08:03.800] And I think Bev Harris covered that on Alex Jones' show on Tuesday, I believe. [01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:05.800] It was one of the things she was talking about. [01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:06.800] But I'm sorry. [01:08:06.800 --> 01:08:12.800] We've just been so concentrated or focused on what we've been doing here in Travis County. [01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:15.800] We haven't been able to really keep up with that this time. [01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:19.800] But I'll just add a comment about the vote flipping on the machines. [01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:21.800] That happens all the time. [01:08:21.800 --> 01:08:25.800] It happens every time there's an election all across the country with different types of machines. [01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:30.800] So when we see reports like that and hear how horrified people are, [01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:35.800] it's interesting when it affects people in a certain area, they get all horrified by it. [01:08:35.800 --> 01:08:36.800] But it happens all the time. [01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:38.800] Everybody needs to know that. [01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:41.800] Well, ladies and Richard, stay on the line because, listen, [01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:47.800] we've got a caller from Nevada right now calling in about the election situation in Nevada. [01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:49.800] This is great. [01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:51.800] Debbie in Nevada, what's going on? [01:08:51.800 --> 01:08:53.800] What happened out there? [01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:55.800] Did you have a first-hand witness account? [01:08:55.800 --> 01:08:58.800] Actually, I'm not calling in about that. [01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:02.800] Oh, I just asked you if you were calling in about the election stuff in Nevada, and you said yes. [01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:03.800] No, I said no. [01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:04.800] Oh, okay. [01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:05.800] I'm sorry. [01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:06.800] All right. [01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:08.800] Well, then just hang on the line then because we'll take your call on that other issue, [01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:10.800] whatever your other issue is later. [01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:11.800] Okay. [01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:12.800] Sorry about that, folks. [01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:17.800] It's pretty rough having to screen my own calls for my own show and be on the air at the same time. [01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:18.800] I can ask a question. [01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:19.800] Do the best I can. [01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:25.800] Has anybody read the Texas constitutional requisites of the elections? [01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:31.800] I have, and you know what it all builds down to? [01:09:31.800 --> 01:09:37.800] In essence, it says that the legislature shall protect the purity of the ballot box. [01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:39.800] Well, it actually says a little bit more than that. [01:09:39.800 --> 01:09:43.800] I've got both the sections here in front of me, and one is elections by ballot, [01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:47.800] numbering fraud and purity of elections, registration of voters. [01:09:47.800 --> 01:09:51.800] In all elections by the people, the vote shall be by ballot, [01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:54.800] and the legislature shall provide for the numbering of tickets [01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:59.800] and make such other regulations as may be necessary to detect and punish fraud [01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:01.800] and preserve the purity of the ballot box, [01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:06.800] and the legislature shall provide bylaw for the registration of all voters. [01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:08.800] Well, here's how they get around it, Eddie. [01:10:08.800 --> 01:10:11.800] They technically say, or this is what they keep telling us, [01:10:11.800 --> 01:10:13.800] and we're just not going to take it anymore. [01:10:13.800 --> 01:10:16.800] They say, well, we are providing you with a ballot. [01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:23.800] It's an electronic ballot, and I don't know how they get away with not numbering. [01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:27.800] You know, that could be the one thing that unhinges this whole thing, [01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:31.800] because if you're using paper ballots, you can number the ballots, [01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:37.800] and it's important to do that so that you can keep track of how many ballots were used [01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:44.800] or not used or were spoiled, but at no time does the number on that piece of paper [01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:51.800] get connected to a voter, because the voter actually picks a ballot at random. [01:10:51.800 --> 01:10:52.800] Right. [01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:55.800] Now, here's the one other thing that goes hand in hand with that, [01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:58.800] privilege of voters from arrest. [01:10:58.800 --> 01:11:02.800] Voters shall in all cases except treason, felony, or breach of the peace [01:11:02.800 --> 01:11:05.800] be privileged from arrest during their attendance at elections [01:11:05.800 --> 01:11:11.800] and in going to and returning there from. [01:11:11.800 --> 01:11:13.800] Interesting. [01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:16.800] So if you got arrested while you were going to get your vote cast, folks, [01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:19.800] or from getting your vote cast, we want to talk to you. [01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:21.800] Interesting. [01:11:21.800 --> 01:11:24.800] Okay, Richard, while we still have you on the line here, [01:11:24.800 --> 01:11:28.800] why don't you relay some of the information you have about the Nevada situation, [01:11:28.800 --> 01:11:31.800] about this one particular county? [01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:34.800] Well, I'll tell you that Clark County, I think that's the epicenter [01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:37.800] where we could maybe dismantle this electronic voting, [01:11:37.800 --> 01:11:44.800] because basically Karen Angle won 14 out of 17 counties in Nevada, [01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:49.800] and one of the counties that she lost, the only lost by I believe it was 33 votes. [01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:51.800] Richard. [01:11:51.800 --> 01:11:55.800] It boils down to Washington County and Clark County is where the activity [01:11:55.800 --> 01:11:59.800] may have been going on, and I'm 99.9% sure it did. [01:11:59.800 --> 01:12:01.800] There was fraud. [01:12:01.800 --> 01:12:03.800] Richard. [01:12:03.800 --> 01:12:08.800] You might let people know that Clark County happens to be Las Vegas. [01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:10.800] That's why it's so important. [01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:14.800] It's probably the biggest county in the state also, I'd imagine. [01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:15.800] Exactly. [01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:18.800] There's a big tail that wags the dogs there, no doubt. [01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:19.800] Yeah. [01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:23.800] But the other thing to really look at is you had a Republican candidate for governor [01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:27.800] that won the statewide governor's race. [01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:30.800] So are we really supposed to believe that in this environment [01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:33.800] with the high unemployment in Nevada, [01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:38.800] with the anger towards the Obama administration, the Obamacare, [01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:41.800] all this stuff, are we really supposed to believe, you know, [01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:43.800] with so many people upside down on their mortgages [01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:45.800] and being foreclosed upon in Nevada, [01:12:45.800 --> 01:12:49.800] are we supposed to believe that that many people that voted for Brian Sandoval [01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:55.800] for governor actually flipped over to Harry Reid in this race? [01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:56.800] Good point. [01:12:56.800 --> 01:13:00.800] Not to mention Barbara Boxer in California. [01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:01.800] Well, what happened there? [01:13:01.800 --> 01:13:04.800] I also haven't heard about that. [01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:08.800] Yeah, she won her re-election in California, [01:13:08.800 --> 01:13:12.800] and I failed to see how that would even be humanly possible. [01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:15.800] You mean she was re-selected. [01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:18.800] Something like that, yeah. [01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:22.800] I got one last thing, and I'll get off the phone here. [01:13:22.800 --> 01:13:24.800] Go ahead. [01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:28.800] This issue of the manpower to count the votes at the precincts there, [01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:31.800] the paper ballots, you guys are easily two steps ahead of me, [01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:34.800] but I was thinking maybe one solution might be, [01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:39.800] is this is going to be a public counting of the votes at the precincts, [01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:43.800] so presumably you would have people from that very precinct come up [01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:45.800] and watch the counting, [01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:49.800] and what they could do is have a little drawing to solicit volunteers [01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:52.800] for the counting out of that pool of precinct voters [01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:55.800] that come there to watch the counting. [01:13:55.800 --> 01:13:58.800] Well, that's one way of doing it that could possibly work, [01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:03.800] and one of the ideas that we've thrown out there many times is to have a, [01:14:03.800 --> 01:14:05.800] just the way they do jury selection, [01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:11.800] to have a mandatory vote counting service that you get paid for, [01:14:11.800 --> 01:14:13.800] but you have to show up and do it every so often, [01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:15.800] and what's wrong with that? [01:14:15.800 --> 01:14:17.800] I mean, that would take care of it right there. [01:14:17.800 --> 01:14:20.800] And another aspect, Richard, that we were trying to illustrate [01:14:20.800 --> 01:14:24.800] or demonstrate on Tuesday with our, the people's hand count [01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:28.800] that we did down at City Hall, we brought in musicians. [01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:30.800] We brought in food. [01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:36.800] We wanted to show people that elections are a community bonding event, [01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:41.800] and you want to know who your neighbors are, and you want to pitch in. [01:14:41.800 --> 01:14:46.800] You want to handle, you know, your neighbor's vote because it's very sacred, [01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:50.800] and there should be a, people should be, well, from our point of view, [01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:53.800] people should be clamoring to want to do this. [01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:56.800] And I think if they understood what was at stake [01:14:56.800 --> 01:14:59.800] and that it was important that these public counts happen, [01:14:59.800 --> 01:15:06.800] that we would have, we wouldn't have a lack of people participating [01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:09.800] to help with the counting. [01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:10.800] Absolutely. [01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:12.800] Hey, thanks for y'all's continued work, okay? [01:15:12.800 --> 01:15:13.800] Thank you, Richard. [01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:15.800] Thanks for all your support. [01:15:15.800 --> 01:15:21.800] Yeah, you couldn't stay off the air for one day, could you, Richard? [01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:25.800] I'm giving Richard a hard time because he, because, oh, he dropped off the line. [01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:29.800] I'm giving Richard a hard time because he retired from radio yesterday [01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:31.800] with his last show and he called in tonight. [01:15:31.800 --> 01:15:33.800] Oh, I didn't know that. [01:15:33.800 --> 01:15:35.800] Yeah, so I told him he couldn't stay off the air for one day. [01:15:35.800 --> 01:15:38.800] We'll see, we'll see how long it takes for him to come back. [01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:39.800] We love Richard. [01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:43.800] Okay, so ladies, all right, we're about to go to break. [01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:46.800] We do have one more caller that has a question for you. [01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:49.800] Rob in Connecticut, what is your question for Karen and Vicki? [01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:51.800] Oh, I don't have a question. [01:15:51.800 --> 01:15:52.800] I don't have a question. [01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:55.800] I was just calling in to let them know what's going on here in Connecticut. [01:15:55.800 --> 01:15:56.800] Okay, go ahead. [01:15:56.800 --> 01:16:03.800] Now, the governor's race is totally being disputed now. [01:16:03.800 --> 01:16:06.800] Now, I'm with CTVotersCount.org. [01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:07.800] I thought you were, Rob. [01:16:07.800 --> 01:16:10.800] Yes, I've been following your organization. [01:16:10.800 --> 01:16:11.800] You guys are doing great work [01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:13.800] and you're one of those groups that does go in [01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:17.800] and tries to make sure that they are performing the audits they're supposed to be, [01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:18.800] but you're finding out they're not. [01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:20.800] Is that right? [01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:26.800] They're, well, I did the last audit for our primary election a couple months ago, [01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:34.800] and I did two of them, and they were not very, like, enthusiastic. [01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:38.800] They never asked for the extra work that they've got to go in and do. [01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:40.800] Rob, we're about to go to break. [01:16:40.800 --> 01:16:41.800] Why don't you stay on the line right here, [01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:43.800] and you can speak some more with Vic and Karen on the other side. [01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:45.800] We'll finish up with Vic and Karen. [01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:48.800] We've got some other callers coming in about, calling in about other issues, [01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:50.800] Charles and Mary. [01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:51.800] Just stay on the line, [01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:55.800] and we will be finished with Vic and Karen on the other side shortly. [01:16:55.800 --> 01:17:01.800] We'll be right back, folks. [01:17:01.800 --> 01:17:04.800] Capital Coin and Bullion is your local source for rare coins, precious metals, [01:17:04.800 --> 01:17:06.800] and coin supplies in the Austin metro area. [01:17:06.800 --> 01:17:08.800] We also ship worldwide. [01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:11.800] We are a family-owned and operated business that offers competitive prices [01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:13.800] on your coin and metal purchases. [01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:17.800] We buy, sell, trade, and consign rare coins, gold, and silver coin collections, [01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:19.800] precious metals, and scrap gold. [01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:21.800] We purchase and sell gold and jewelry items. [01:17:21.800 --> 01:17:24.800] We offer daily specials on coins and bullion. [01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:27.800] We are located at 5448 Burnett Road, Suite 3, [01:17:27.800 --> 01:17:29.800] at the corner of Burnett and Showmark, [01:17:29.800 --> 01:17:33.800] and we're open Mondays and Fridays 10 to 6, Saturdays 10 to 5. [01:17:33.800 --> 01:17:36.800] You are welcome to stop in our shop during regular business hours [01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:41.800] or call 512-646-6440 with any questions. [01:17:41.800 --> 01:17:45.800] Ask for Chad and say you heard about us on Google Law Radio or Texas Liberty Radio. [01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:48.800] That's Capital Coin and Bullion at the corner of Burnett and Showmark, [01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:52.800] and we're open Mondays through Fridays 10 to 6, Saturdays 10 to 5. [01:17:52.800 --> 01:17:59.800] That's Capital Coin and Bullion, 512-646-6440. [01:17:59.800 --> 01:18:02.800] It is so enlightening to listen to 90.1 FM, [01:18:02.800 --> 01:18:05.800] but finding things on the Internet isn't so easy, [01:18:05.800 --> 01:18:08.800] and neither is finding like-minded people to share it with. [01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:11.800] Oh, well, I guess you haven't heard of Brave New Books, then. [01:18:11.800 --> 01:18:12.800] Brave New Books? [01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:16.800] Yes, Brave New Books has all the books and DVDs you're looking for [01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:19.800] by authors like Alex Jones, Ron Paul, Angie Edward Griffin. [01:18:19.800 --> 01:18:23.800] They even stock inner food, Berkey products, and Calvin Soaps. [01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:26.800] There's no way a place like that exists. [01:18:26.800 --> 01:18:27.800] Go check it out for yourself. [01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:31.800] It's downtown at 1904 Guadalupe Street, just south of UT. [01:18:31.800 --> 01:18:35.800] Oh, by UT, there's never anywhere to park down there. [01:18:35.800 --> 01:18:37.800] Actually, they now offer a free hour of parking [01:18:37.800 --> 01:18:41.800] for paying customers at the 500 MLK parking facility [01:18:41.800 --> 01:18:43.800] just behind the bookstore. [01:18:43.800 --> 01:18:46.800] It does exist, but when are they open? [01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:51.800] Monday through Saturday, 11 AM to 9 PM, and 1 to 6 PM on Sundays. [01:18:51.800 --> 01:18:55.800] So give them a call at 512-480-2503, [01:18:55.800 --> 01:19:03.800] or check out their events page at bravenewbookstore.com. [01:19:03.800 --> 01:19:09.800] Ain't gonna blame me [01:19:09.800 --> 01:19:16.800] Don't blame me [01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:20.800] Well [01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:25.800] Ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again [01:19:25.800 --> 01:19:30.800] I was blindsided, but now I can see your plan [01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:33.800] You put the fear in my pocket [01:19:33.800 --> 01:19:35.800] Took the money from my hand [01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:43.800] Ain't gonna fool me with that same old trick again [01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:59.800] Ain't gonna fool me [01:19:59.800 --> 01:20:01.800] Okay, folks, we are back. [01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:03.800] We're finishing up here. [01:20:03.800 --> 01:20:06.800] Vicki had to go, but we've still got Karen, [01:20:06.800 --> 01:20:09.800] and we are speaking with Rob in Connecticut. [01:20:09.800 --> 01:20:11.800] Okay, please continue, Rob. [01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:16.800] Okay, not only do I do the auditing of the machines [01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:19.800] after the elections, but also on election night, [01:20:19.800 --> 01:20:21.800] I work for Edison Research, [01:20:21.800 --> 01:20:25.800] and I get paid by them to phone in the results. [01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:29.800] And these are the results that you get on CNN, Fox, ABC, [01:20:29.800 --> 01:20:31.800] Associated Press, etc. [01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:35.800] And now the big controversy here in Connecticut [01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:38.800] is the governor's race. [01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:42.800] Everyone declared, based on the early numbers, [01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:48.800] that the Democrat, Dan Malloy, was the winner. [01:20:48.800 --> 01:20:51.800] And the secretary of state here, Susan Vichowich, [01:20:51.800 --> 01:20:53.800] also declared him the winner. [01:20:53.800 --> 01:20:56.800] But there were a lot of precincts that were having problems, [01:20:56.800 --> 01:20:58.800] like Bridgeport is the biggest city in Connecticut, [01:20:58.800 --> 01:21:01.800] and they kept their polls open two more hours [01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:03.800] because they ran out of ballots. [01:21:03.800 --> 01:21:05.800] And there were a couple other places that kept the polls open [01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:07.800] late for the same reason. [01:21:07.800 --> 01:21:11.800] But the Republican, Tom Foley, was still ahead, [01:21:11.800 --> 01:21:13.800] but they were still declaring Malloy the winner. [01:21:13.800 --> 01:21:20.800] And as of this morning, the vote totals were 552,000 for Foley, [01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:25.800] the Republican, and 543,000 for Malloy, the Democrat. [01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:28.800] And by the way, Susan Vichowich is also a Democrat, [01:21:28.800 --> 01:21:31.800] so she declared the Democrat the winner. [01:21:31.800 --> 01:21:37.800] Now, the Associated Press has withdrawn that declaration [01:21:37.800 --> 01:21:39.800] from their news service. [01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:42.800] They are now saying, no, we're not going to declare that. [01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:43.800] Malloy is the winner. [01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:47.800] Now, in the town of Griswold, Connecticut, for example, [01:21:47.800 --> 01:21:51.800] this is another thing that messes up the whole ballot issue in Connecticut. [01:21:51.800 --> 01:21:54.800] There is something called the Working Families Party, [01:21:54.800 --> 01:21:58.800] which is the result of ACORN. [01:21:58.800 --> 01:22:00.800] So ACORN is behind this Working Families Party. [01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:03.800] And what this does, it allows candidates to get their names on the ballot twice. [01:22:03.800 --> 01:22:06.800] It's called cross endorsement, which I totally disagree with. [01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:09.800] Now, if you're going to run for office, you get your name on the ballot once, [01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:10.800] and that's it. [01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:13.800] But across the board, Working Families Parties, [01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:16.800] they get the Democrat candidate also. [01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:20.800] So any Democrat automatically gets their name on the ballot twice. [01:22:20.800 --> 01:22:23.800] Now, when we report in the vote totals, [01:22:23.800 --> 01:22:26.800] we have to add up the two totals from both the Democrat [01:22:26.800 --> 01:22:28.800] and the Working Families Party. [01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:32.800] In the town of Griswold, the totals for Malloy, the Democrat, [01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:38.800] were 1,497 Democratic votes, 97 Working Families votes. [01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:44.800] Well, you had 1,497 plus 97, and that total is 1,594. [01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:50.800] But it was reported as 2,467, and that's just one issue right there [01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:56.800] that they had a bad number of, what, 700, 800 votes. [01:22:56.800 --> 01:22:59.800] Now, this is going to be a big mess, [01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:03.800] and this is going to be going on for probably a few weeks here in Connecticut. [01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:06.800] Sounds like a bunch of lawsuits are in order here. [01:23:06.800 --> 01:23:08.800] Oh, and there's one other thing. [01:23:08.800 --> 01:23:09.800] This is from two years ago. [01:23:09.800 --> 01:23:12.800] If you just go to Ixquick and put in, [01:23:12.800 --> 01:23:17.800] D-Bold Comes Clean admits that its e-voting machines are faulty. [01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:19.800] That's the title of an article. [01:23:19.800 --> 01:23:23.800] But here's the kicker, and if it wasn't so sad, it is funny, though. [01:23:23.800 --> 01:23:30.800] The spokesman for D-Bold, his last name is Rig Al. [01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:34.800] Yeah, it's just like, you know, when the guy, his name is Cash Carry, [01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:39.800] that goes and talks about, you know, what happened with the bailouts. [01:23:39.800 --> 01:23:40.800] Exactly. [01:23:40.800 --> 01:23:43.800] All right, so Rob, can you kind of wrap it up? [01:23:43.800 --> 01:23:45.800] We've got one more caller that wants to talk to Karen, [01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:47.800] and there's other callers that want to talk about other stuff, too. [01:23:47.800 --> 01:23:49.800] Oh, yeah, one last thing. [01:23:49.800 --> 01:23:53.800] The Germany issue, we've got to take hold of what worked in Germany [01:23:53.800 --> 01:23:54.800] and do it here. [01:23:54.800 --> 01:23:57.800] We've got to start some legal actions based on the same things that worked in Germany, [01:23:57.800 --> 01:24:01.800] because that does get right down to the issue of real voting [01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:04.800] that everyday people can see is honest. [01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:09.800] Those determinations can be used as precedent here. [01:24:09.800 --> 01:24:11.800] Well, there is a lawsuit, Rob. [01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:14.800] You're probably familiar with Bob Schultz's suit in New York State. [01:24:14.800 --> 01:24:16.800] Have you been following that? [01:24:16.800 --> 01:24:17.800] Not really. [01:24:17.800 --> 01:24:21.800] Because he does have a lawsuit that will be going to trial next year, [01:24:21.800 --> 01:24:26.800] and he has actually spoken to the people, the plaintiffs, in the German decision [01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:28.800] or in that German case, [01:24:28.800 --> 01:24:34.800] and it is going to try to base his case on, you know, [01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:40.800] what is the method of voting that is totally observable in public [01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:43.800] and meets the constitutional requirements of elections. [01:24:43.800 --> 01:24:44.800] That's excellent. [01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:47.800] His case is very important, and we need to start every time, [01:24:47.800 --> 01:24:51.800] you know, getting the word out about that and helping and support him. [01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:54.800] He's really doing this on his own, [01:24:54.800 --> 01:24:59.800] and it could be the equivalent of the German decision. [01:24:59.800 --> 01:25:04.800] Yeah, well, it also sounds like this whole thing, you know, in Las Vegas, [01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:06.800] what happened with Sharon Angle, [01:25:06.800 --> 01:25:09.800] that that could be what will blow this whole thing wide open as well. [01:25:09.800 --> 01:25:10.800] Okay, Rob, thank you. [01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:11.800] Thanks, Rob. [01:25:11.800 --> 01:25:12.800] We'd love to talk to you more, [01:25:12.800 --> 01:25:15.800] but we've got to move on because we have one other caller for Karen, [01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:17.800] and then we have to take the other calls. [01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:18.800] Okay, good night. [01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:19.800] Okay, thanks. [01:25:19.800 --> 01:25:20.800] Bye, Rob. [01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:22.800] Okay, we've got Elizabeth in Texas who wants to speak with Karen. [01:25:22.800 --> 01:25:24.800] Elizabeth, thanks for calling in. [01:25:24.800 --> 01:25:27.800] What is your question for Karen, or what is your comment on the election? [01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:33.800] Hi, I sure appreciate you taking my call, and you ladies are amazing. [01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:38.800] I've got to say hats off to you. [01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:47.800] The reason I'm calling is I thought that I heard Beb Harris on a radio show, [01:25:47.800 --> 01:25:51.800] I thought it was today, could have been yesterday, [01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:57.800] say that there were some court cases now that had, [01:25:57.800 --> 01:26:06.800] or rulings that had disallowed the secrecy of the programming. [01:26:06.800 --> 01:26:08.800] And I may have misunderstood her. [01:26:08.800 --> 01:26:14.800] She didn't use that word, but the programming of the voting machine, [01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:18.800] at least in Travis County, is secret, correct? [01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:20.800] It's actually secret in the whole state. [01:26:20.800 --> 01:26:21.800] That's part of the Texas election code. [01:26:21.800 --> 01:26:23.800] Karen? [01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:26.800] Are we talking about the secrecy of the ballot? [01:26:26.800 --> 01:26:32.800] I think you know she's talking about the proprietary nature of the software. [01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:33.800] Yeah, the trade secret. [01:26:33.800 --> 01:26:36.800] Yes, the fact that these programs are protected, [01:26:36.800 --> 01:26:41.800] and typically election officials and most people can't see them. [01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:43.800] It's only in a few states where they have actually gone out [01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:47.800] and demanded from the vendors that their programs be made available [01:26:47.800 --> 01:26:52.800] so they could be evaluated and looked at by computer scientists. [01:26:52.800 --> 01:26:55.800] And the reports based on those reviews are scathing, [01:26:55.800 --> 01:27:00.800] and that's why California dropped the use of the direct record electronic machines. [01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:05.800] Now Elizabeth, if these are state cases that you're mentioning in other states, [01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:08.800] I don't know how much of that we could import into Texas, [01:27:08.800 --> 01:27:11.800] but if there are federal rulings, especially from high courts, [01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:13.800] or especially if we get a Supreme Court, [01:27:13.800 --> 01:27:17.800] U.S. Supreme Court ruling that says that we can no longer, [01:27:17.800 --> 01:27:21.800] that they can no longer have proprietary software for these machines, [01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:24.800] then that would strike down that section of the Texas election code, [01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:27.800] but that is part of the Texas election code right now. [01:27:27.800 --> 01:27:33.800] I didn't realize that, but what I understood from Bev that there had been some rulings [01:27:33.800 --> 01:27:40.800] that had opened up the door for essentially forensic audits, [01:27:40.800 --> 01:27:45.800] and I was wanting to know a little bit more about that. [01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:49.800] Yeah, Elizabeth, you might be, I know in Arizona there is a group out there [01:27:49.800 --> 01:27:54.800] that has been doing tremendous work about the legality [01:27:54.800 --> 01:28:00.800] of having access to all of the audit logs and all of the, [01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:04.800] to be able to examine the reports from these machines, [01:28:04.800 --> 01:28:12.800] and because of that they are proving that certain measures that have passed out there, [01:28:12.800 --> 01:28:15.800] like for bonds, for roads and things, [01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:21.800] it looks as if maybe there was a lot of fraud that has been going on out there. [01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:25.800] That might be one of the cases that she's talking about. [01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:28.800] Yeah, I would be interested in hearing some more about that as well. [01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:34.800] What this does though, when you start saying we have to see the internal workings of this machine [01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:38.800] so we can look at these things, you know what that opens up the door is, [01:28:38.800 --> 01:28:43.800] then we start talking about, well, if the software could be open source, [01:28:43.800 --> 01:28:45.800] then everything would be fine. [01:28:45.800 --> 01:28:46.800] Be okay, yeah. [01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:49.800] And then we're just going to fall back into another false solution, [01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:53.800] because even with open source you're still talking about secret vote counting. [01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:54.800] Yes, exactly. [01:28:54.800 --> 01:28:59.800] And how we talked on the break concerning the paper ballots with the optical scanners, [01:28:59.800 --> 01:29:05.800] if we say, well, we insist that they also be counted by hand to compare the results, [01:29:05.800 --> 01:29:08.800] well, then they'll just have a few elections where it's accurate and say, [01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:10.800] see, we don't need to count them by hand. [01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:14.800] So you guys are full of it, and then they'll blow the whole idea off, [01:29:14.800 --> 01:29:16.800] and then as soon as the idea has gotten rid of, [01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:18.800] then they'll go back to just doing whatever they want. [01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:20.800] So yeah, it's all or nothing, people. [01:29:20.800 --> 01:29:24.800] It's just like with Floyd, you either get it out of the water or not. [01:29:24.800 --> 01:29:27.800] It's like we either have proper elections or not. [01:29:27.800 --> 01:29:30.800] Listen, we're about to go to another break, and we really need to move on. [01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:31.800] Elizabeth, thank you for calling in. [01:29:31.800 --> 01:29:33.800] Karen, any last thoughts? [01:29:33.800 --> 01:29:37.800] I did want to just say a silver lining to the work that we did at the county level [01:29:37.800 --> 01:29:41.800] with the study group is that we did find other groups out there [01:29:41.800 --> 01:29:43.800] to start our hand count coalition. [01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:46.800] That's where we formed our core, and now we're growing. [01:29:46.800 --> 01:29:48.800] So if there are any groups out there in Texas [01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:51.800] or even in the country that want to join with us, we welcome you. [01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:53.800] All right, folks, go to VoteRescue.org. [01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:59.800] We'll be back, and we'll take Charles and Mary on the other side. [01:29:59.800 --> 01:30:02.800] Top ten reasons to question the official story of the Oklahoma City bombing, [01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:03.800] reason number five. [01:30:03.800 --> 01:30:06.800] As witnessed by millions of viewers, the rescue efforts were interrupted [01:30:06.800 --> 01:30:09.800] several times due to the presence of other explosives. [01:30:09.800 --> 01:30:12.800] Government log entries indicate and witnesses report that after the initial [01:30:12.800 --> 01:30:16.800] devastating blast, a bomb complete with timer was discovered and removed [01:30:16.800 --> 01:30:17.800] and wreckage by the bomb squad. [01:30:17.800 --> 01:30:21.800] Yet we are told it's all due to baseless bomb scares or other contrivances. [01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:24.800] So while officials try to sort out their stories, all we ask is, [01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:27.800] who planted these bombs and why is the government lying about them? [01:30:27.800 --> 01:30:32.800] For more information, go to okcbombingtruth.com. [01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:34.800] CPR just got a whole lot easier. [01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:38.800] New guidelines skip mouth to mouth and go right for the chest compressions. [01:30:38.800 --> 01:30:41.800] It's not only less yucky, it saves more lives. [01:30:41.800 --> 01:30:46.800] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht, and I'll be back in a moment with more on hands-only CPR. [01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:48.800] Privacy is under attack. [01:30:48.800 --> 01:30:52.800] When you give up data about yourself, you'll never get it back again. [01:30:52.800 --> 01:30:57.800] And once your privacy is gone, you'll find your freedoms will start to vanish too. [01:30:57.800 --> 01:30:58.800] So protect your rights. [01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:02.800] Say no to surveillance and keep your information to yourself. [01:31:02.800 --> 01:31:04.800] Privacy, it's worth hanging on to. [01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:08.800] This public service announcement is brought to you by startpage.com, [01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:12.800] the private search engine alternative to Google, Yahoo, and Bing. [01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:15.800] Start over with startpage. [01:31:15.800 --> 01:31:18.800] Being a hero just got a whole lot easier. [01:31:18.800 --> 01:31:22.800] CPR experts say mouth-to-mouth resuscitation is no longer needed. [01:31:22.800 --> 01:31:24.800] You can stick to just chest compressions. [01:31:24.800 --> 01:31:28.800] Hands-only CPR is not only less personal, it's actually more effective, [01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:32.800] saving 62 percent more patients than the old method. [01:31:32.800 --> 01:31:35.800] That's because hands-only CPR makes bystanders more likely to help [01:31:35.800 --> 01:31:38.800] rather than hesitate at the thought of mouth-to-mouth contact. [01:31:38.800 --> 01:31:40.800] As a former CPR instructor myself, [01:31:40.800 --> 01:31:44.800] I know that immediate continuous chest compressions are the key to saving lives. [01:31:44.800 --> 01:31:46.800] So this is especially good news. [01:31:46.800 --> 01:31:48.800] So get ready to be someone's hero. [01:31:48.800 --> 01:31:52.800] Learn more and find a CPR class at AmericanHeart.org. [01:31:52.800 --> 01:31:53.800] I'm Dr. Catherine Albrecht. [01:31:53.800 --> 01:32:02.800] More news and information at CatherineAlbrecht.com. [01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:17.800] Okay, folks, we are back. [01:32:17.800 --> 01:32:18.800] We're taking your call. [01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:21.800] Charles from Michigan, Mary from Texas. [01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:23.800] Thank you for hanging on the line so patiently. [01:32:23.800 --> 01:32:25.800] We're going to Charles first. [01:32:25.800 --> 01:32:26.800] Okay, Charles, thank you for calling in. [01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:28.800] What's on your mind tonight? [01:32:28.800 --> 01:32:29.800] How are you tonight? [01:32:29.800 --> 01:32:30.800] Pretty good. [01:32:30.800 --> 01:32:36.800] Look, I'm here in Washtenaw County, Michigan, and I'm engaged. [01:32:36.800 --> 01:32:41.800] I'm trying to engage in a pro se litigation about privacy. [01:32:41.800 --> 01:32:44.800] Oddly enough, you guys have that commercial. [01:32:44.800 --> 01:32:49.800] But I heard you guys, I heard Brandy on the Alex Jones show the other day. [01:32:49.800 --> 01:32:54.800] I figured that you guys would be the perfect people to contact. [01:32:54.800 --> 01:32:56.800] I'm trying to engage in this litigation, [01:32:56.800 --> 01:33:02.800] and they won't let me file this lawsuit without putting my name and address on the lawsuit, [01:33:02.800 --> 01:33:06.800] which it defeats the whole purpose of my lawsuit. [01:33:06.800 --> 01:33:11.800] And there have been plenty of cases where there have been pseudonyms used in cases, [01:33:11.800 --> 01:33:18.800] and I wanted to know why this particular magistrate won't let me do this. [01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:20.800] Brandy, are you there? [01:33:20.800 --> 01:33:29.800] Are you asking us to tell you why a particular magistrate made a figure of decision? [01:33:29.800 --> 01:33:32.800] I need a whole lot more information. [01:33:32.800 --> 01:33:38.800] Well, what's happened is I'm doing a pro se litigation against the Gangstop [01:33:38.800 --> 01:33:46.800] for they want me to give my information in order for me to get a refund when I paid in cash. [01:33:46.800 --> 01:33:49.800] Wait, refund for what? [01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:59.800] For an item I bought, it was one part merchandise was still in the package with the receipt. [01:33:59.800 --> 01:34:02.800] Okay, wait, you're being cryptic. [01:34:02.800 --> 01:34:07.800] Why would they reimburse you for something you bought? [01:34:07.800 --> 01:34:13.800] Their store policy and this store clerk told me to go ahead and purchase this particular item, [01:34:13.800 --> 01:34:16.800] and if I didn't want it, just bring it on back. [01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:18.800] And they proceed to give me my money back. [01:34:18.800 --> 01:34:22.800] Does this have to do with the fact that they're trying to get personal data out of you [01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:25.800] in order to give you your money back when you return an item? [01:34:25.800 --> 01:34:26.800] Exactly. [01:34:26.800 --> 01:34:29.800] Okay, and did you pay cash for this item? [01:34:29.800 --> 01:34:30.800] With the cash. [01:34:30.800 --> 01:34:34.800] Okay, so you pay cash for the item, and you're bringing the item back, [01:34:34.800 --> 01:34:38.800] and you have the receipt, and you want your cash back, [01:34:38.800 --> 01:34:44.800] and they don't want to give you your money back unless you give them a whole slew of personal information. [01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:46.800] Is that what the situation is? [01:34:46.800 --> 01:34:47.800] That's exactly what the situation is. [01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:50.800] Okay, so Randy, do you understand a little bit better now what's going on? [01:34:50.800 --> 01:34:53.800] And he didn't want to give it to them, and the problem is if you sue them, [01:34:53.800 --> 01:34:56.800] then you're going to end up giving them a whole bunch of personal information [01:34:56.800 --> 01:35:00.800] because you can't usually sue as an anonymous entity. [01:35:00.800 --> 01:35:07.800] There are some times where you can keep the anonymity of a plaintiff hidden for whatever reason, [01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:09.800] but I don't know in this case. [01:35:09.800 --> 01:35:12.800] Randy, do you have any ideas on this? [01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:17.800] Don't know how you will get by that. [01:35:17.800 --> 01:35:22.800] When you accuse a person and bring him into court, [01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:27.800] he has a constitutional right to know who's accusing him. [01:35:27.800 --> 01:35:31.800] I don't see how you're going to get past that one. [01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:41.800] Okay, because I did see a whole slew of court cases where there were some anonymous... [01:35:41.800 --> 01:35:43.800] Was the plaintiff anonymous? [01:35:43.800 --> 01:35:46.800] The plaintiff, yeah, the plaintiff was anonymous. [01:35:46.800 --> 01:35:49.800] They called it the plaintiff using a pseudonym. [01:35:49.800 --> 01:35:55.800] I submitted a brief to the magistrate, the one who's blocking me from this, [01:35:55.800 --> 01:35:58.800] and there's more than ten... [01:35:58.800 --> 01:36:02.800] What was the nature of the exclusion? [01:36:02.800 --> 01:36:06.800] Because we're going to what appears to be a constitutional issue here. [01:36:06.800 --> 01:36:13.800] So I would expect if a court ruled on this denial, [01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:18.800] it's a lot easier since it's a civil action and not criminal, [01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:24.800] but it would seem to take a lot to overcome a constitutional requirement. [01:36:24.800 --> 01:36:28.800] So these cases that you're citing, [01:36:28.800 --> 01:36:37.800] are they cases that go to an extreme situation to where, say, someone is making a claim [01:36:37.800 --> 01:36:43.800] of organized crime against a person or group, [01:36:43.800 --> 01:36:46.800] and if his identity is revealed, [01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:49.800] he runs the risk of being murdered before he can get to court [01:36:49.800 --> 01:36:51.800] for some extreme situation like that. [01:36:51.800 --> 01:36:54.800] Is that what this case law goes to, [01:36:54.800 --> 01:37:01.800] or does the case law just generally grant a person the right to file suit [01:37:01.800 --> 01:37:06.800] against someone else and not reveal their identity by choice? [01:37:06.800 --> 01:37:11.800] Well, here in Doe v. Sewell, Jersey, [01:37:11.800 --> 01:37:14.800] it's a similar case to mine. [01:37:14.800 --> 01:37:19.800] Nobody's going to be murdered or harmed in any way. [01:37:19.800 --> 01:37:24.800] It was a 2008 case in New York, in the New York Supreme Court, [01:37:24.800 --> 01:37:29.800] and it was so ordered that the defendant motioned to tell the plaintiff [01:37:29.800 --> 01:37:34.800] to amend the caption to reflect her legal name. [01:37:34.800 --> 01:37:39.800] So in this case, they did not have to reveal her legal name, [01:37:39.800 --> 01:37:49.800] and she was able to go as Jane Doe. [01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:54.800] Did they state a reason why they allowed her to do that? [01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:57.800] Did they state law? [01:37:57.800 --> 01:38:01.800] Was there statutory law or was there case law? [01:38:01.800 --> 01:38:08.800] What was the support for being able to sue anonymously? [01:38:08.800 --> 01:38:15.800] Well, in this particular case, this was a unique case. [01:38:15.800 --> 01:38:20.800] There was no statute, [01:38:20.800 --> 01:38:29.800] and the plaintiff in this particular case wanted to hide her identity [01:38:29.800 --> 01:38:36.800] because it was in the nature of the jury store took her picture, [01:38:36.800 --> 01:38:43.800] and ended up they put her picture out there as a sexual act, [01:38:43.800 --> 01:38:48.800] and she didn't want to have her name revealed as the sexual act on this picture. [01:38:48.800 --> 01:38:53.800] It was a commercial. [01:38:53.800 --> 01:38:57.800] That's going to be a different situation from the situation that you're in. [01:38:57.800 --> 01:39:01.800] That was to protect her identity for a legitimate reason, [01:39:01.800 --> 01:39:05.800] because something about her had already been out in the public. [01:39:05.800 --> 01:39:07.800] What state were you from? [01:39:07.800 --> 01:39:09.800] Michigan. [01:39:09.800 --> 01:39:15.800] How do you bring the New York case to Michigan? [01:39:15.800 --> 01:39:23.800] The magistrate said that this hasn't been done before, and it will not be done. [01:39:23.800 --> 01:39:27.800] Sometimes you can import case law from one state to another state, [01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:33.800] but you would also need to show that the facts and the merits of the other case, [01:39:33.800 --> 01:39:39.800] even if it was a Michigan case, that that somehow matches up with your situation, [01:39:39.800 --> 01:39:41.800] or else it's not going to apply. [01:39:41.800 --> 01:39:47.800] That case law would be insufficient, because even if they did allow it, [01:39:47.800 --> 01:39:52.800] if the magistrate says this has never been done in Michigan, [01:39:52.800 --> 01:39:56.800] then you can say, okay, if it's never been done in Michigan, [01:39:56.800 --> 01:39:59.800] then I can bring in law from another state, [01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:05.800] because all of the states respect the legislatures from all the other states, [01:40:05.800 --> 01:40:09.800] in that they respect that they pass good law. [01:40:09.800 --> 01:40:14.800] So if our legislature hasn't addressed this issue and another has, [01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:17.800] then we can import that, but only if that's the case, [01:40:17.800 --> 01:40:20.800] if your legislature hasn't addressed it. [01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:24.800] However, it has to be on point. [01:40:24.800 --> 01:40:26.800] Yeah, it has to be on point. [01:40:26.800 --> 01:40:30.800] Charles, what kind of information were they trying to get out of you anyway? [01:40:30.800 --> 01:40:33.800] Telephone number, name, and address. [01:40:33.800 --> 01:40:37.800] And why did they want this information? [01:40:37.800 --> 01:40:40.800] You know, they said that they couldn't give me my refund [01:40:40.800 --> 01:40:43.800] unless I give them this information. [01:40:43.800 --> 01:40:47.800] Okay, it was just because we say so, in other words, was their reasoning. [01:40:47.800 --> 01:40:48.800] Exactly. [01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:51.800] Well, okay, here's one thing that I could suggest at this point. [01:40:51.800 --> 01:40:54.800] I don't know how much the refund is worth to you or how far you want to push this. [01:40:54.800 --> 01:40:58.800] Obviously, if you're going to sue them over this, they're going to know your name. [01:40:58.800 --> 01:41:03.800] You can maybe get a P.O. box to deal with all the paperwork of the lawsuit [01:41:03.800 --> 01:41:05.800] so that they would have your P.O. box number [01:41:05.800 --> 01:41:09.800] and not your home mailing address or something like that. [01:41:09.800 --> 01:41:14.800] But you could go ahead and sue them for the refund, sue them for court costs, [01:41:14.800 --> 01:41:18.800] sue them for pain and suffering and everything else and duress [01:41:18.800 --> 01:41:22.800] and loss of the money that you didn't have at all this time, [01:41:22.800 --> 01:41:28.800] and make an example out of it so that the next time somebody walks in that store [01:41:28.800 --> 01:41:33.800] and says, no, I'm not going to give you my personal information, give me my cash back, [01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:39.800] they might think twice about their policy because they could be looking at a lawsuit down the road. [01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:42.800] Would this be Best Buy by any chance? [01:41:42.800 --> 01:41:45.800] No, no, GameStop. [01:41:45.800 --> 01:41:49.800] You must have spent a lot of money in GameStop for them not to want to give you your cash back. [01:41:49.800 --> 01:41:52.800] They just have a policy, most stores do, [01:41:52.800 --> 01:41:58.800] and the reason that I've been told for this before is that they want to keep a record of, [01:41:58.800 --> 01:42:01.800] you know, an actual mailing address and phone number, [01:42:01.800 --> 01:42:07.800] and the only reason that they want to do that is to keep their employees in line. [01:42:07.800 --> 01:42:10.800] It's a check on the management, on the employees, [01:42:10.800 --> 01:42:16.800] to make sure that the employees aren't ripping off the store with phony refunds. [01:42:16.800 --> 01:42:19.800] That's the reason, but too bad. [01:42:19.800 --> 01:42:23.800] And Charles, you may also want to contact Catherine Albrecht about this. [01:42:23.800 --> 01:42:31.800] Do they have a posted policy or is there a policy written on the receipt? [01:42:31.800 --> 01:42:33.800] On the receipt they do have a policy. [01:42:33.800 --> 01:42:39.800] The policy states if I bring merchandise back within seven days in the original package unharmed, [01:42:39.800 --> 01:42:41.800] I am subject to a refund. [01:42:41.800 --> 01:42:46.800] It doesn't say anything about having to display my Social Security, I mean telephone number [01:42:46.800 --> 01:42:49.800] and address and name and everything else. [01:42:49.800 --> 01:42:56.800] Then a suggestion, to overcome the problem with the personal identification, [01:42:56.800 --> 01:43:05.800] do you have a problem using your name? [01:43:05.800 --> 01:43:07.800] In this case, I do. [01:43:07.800 --> 01:43:09.800] You're going to be hard to get in there. [01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:10.800] How is the court? [01:43:10.800 --> 01:43:12.800] Randy, can you speak up a little bit more? [01:43:12.800 --> 01:43:13.800] It sounds like you're kind of far away from the mic. [01:43:13.800 --> 01:43:14.800] I can't hear you. [01:43:14.800 --> 01:43:20.800] How is the court going to adjudicate a case with someone they don't know? [01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:21.800] You're going to have to use your name. [01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:22.800] You can't communicate with. [01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:26.800] You're going to have to use your name, Charles, if you're going to take it to court. [01:43:26.800 --> 01:43:27.800] Okay, so that was my question. [01:43:27.800 --> 01:43:31.800] I was wondering if I actually had to or if the other way I do it. [01:43:31.800 --> 01:43:37.800] Yeah, because all that case law you're citing doesn't apply to your case. [01:43:37.800 --> 01:43:39.800] And Randy's right. [01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:40.800] Okay. [01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:41.800] How is the court going to contact you? [01:43:41.800 --> 01:43:45.800] How are they going to know who they're dealing with? [01:43:45.800 --> 01:43:50.800] Well, you know, I took frequent trips back and forth, so it wasn't a big deal. [01:43:50.800 --> 01:43:54.800] Okay, well, listen, you might want to contact Katherine Albrecht about that, [01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:56.800] kma at spychips.com. [01:43:56.800 --> 01:44:00.800] We'll be right back with more of your calls. [01:44:00.800 --> 01:44:02.800] More energy. [01:44:02.800 --> 01:44:04.800] Stronger immune power. [01:44:04.800 --> 01:44:07.800] Improved sense of well-being. [01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:11.800] How many supplements have you heard boast of these benefits? [01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:14.800] The team behind Centrition believes that supplements should [01:44:14.800 --> 01:44:16.800] over-deliver on their promises. [01:44:16.800 --> 01:44:20.800] And Centrition does just that. 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[01:45:02.800 --> 01:45:06.800] Win your case without an attorney with Jurisdictionary, [01:45:06.800 --> 01:45:14.800] the affordable, easy-to-understand, 4-CD course that will show you how in 24 hours, step-by-step. [01:45:14.800 --> 01:45:18.800] If you have a lawyer, know what your lawyer should be doing. [01:45:18.800 --> 01:45:21.800] If you don't have a lawyer, know what you should do for yourself. [01:45:21.800 --> 01:45:26.800] Thousands have won with our step-by-step course, and now you can too. [01:45:26.800 --> 01:45:33.800] Jurisdictionary was created by a licensed attorney with 22 years of case-winning experience. [01:45:33.800 --> 01:45:37.800] Even if you're not in a lawsuit, you can learn what everyone should understand [01:45:37.800 --> 01:45:42.800] about the principles and practices that control our American courts. [01:45:42.800 --> 01:45:48.800] You'll receive our audio classroom, video seminar, tutorials, forms for civil cases, [01:45:48.800 --> 01:46:00.800] pro se tactics, and much more. Please visit ruleoflawradio.com and click on the banner or call toll-free 866-LAW-EZ. [01:46:19.800 --> 01:46:26.800] Some things in this world I will never understand. [01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:30.800] Some things I realize fully. [01:46:30.800 --> 01:46:34.800] Somebody's gonna police that policeman. [01:46:34.800 --> 01:46:38.800] Somebody's gonna police the bully. [01:46:38.800 --> 01:46:43.800] There's always a room at the top of the hill. [01:46:43.800 --> 01:46:48.800] Here through the grapevine in this lonely left hill. [01:46:48.800 --> 01:46:52.800] They're wishing it was more than opposition to fail. [01:46:52.800 --> 01:46:57.800] They know that if they don't do it, somebody will be the main. [01:46:57.800 --> 01:47:00.800] In this world I will never understand. [01:47:00.800 --> 01:47:04.800] Some things I realize fully. [01:47:04.800 --> 01:47:09.800] Somebody's gonna police that policeman. [01:47:09.800 --> 01:47:12.800] Somebody's gonna police the bully. [01:47:12.800 --> 01:47:15.800] I know they will. [01:47:15.800 --> 01:47:17.800] Yeah, they're gonna put the bill. [01:47:17.800 --> 01:47:18.800] I know they will. [01:47:18.800 --> 01:47:21.800] Cause I see so much in God's detail. [01:47:21.800 --> 01:47:22.800] I know they will. [01:47:22.800 --> 01:47:25.800] Never fail to tip back the scale. [01:47:25.800 --> 01:47:27.800] I know they will. [01:47:27.800 --> 01:47:30.800] Never fail to tip back the scale. [01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:34.800] I know they will. [01:47:34.800 --> 01:47:36.800] I know they will. [01:47:36.800 --> 01:47:38.800] I can't even know. [01:47:38.800 --> 01:47:42.800] Okay folks, we are back. We got one more segment left. [01:47:42.800 --> 01:47:46.800] And Randy, before we go to Marion, Texas, [01:47:46.800 --> 01:47:51.800] the segment ended before we were able to finish with Paul. [01:47:51.800 --> 01:47:55.800] What is somebody supposed to do in a situation like this [01:47:55.800 --> 01:48:00.800] where they have not signed a contract agreeing to relinquish their anonymity [01:48:00.800 --> 01:48:04.800] and they are owed a refund? [01:48:04.800 --> 01:48:09.800] And now they're being basically extorted for personal data [01:48:09.800 --> 01:48:11.800] in order to get their cash back. [01:48:11.800 --> 01:48:13.800] And in order to file a lawsuit they have to give their identity. [01:48:13.800 --> 01:48:16.800] So what is the remedy here? [01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:21.800] Kitty, if you have an objection to using your name, [01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:24.800] it's gonna be hard to file a lawsuit. [01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:30.800] But if you're trying to keep them from physically having your personal address [01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:34.800] or personal contact information, you can get, you can take mail, [01:48:34.800 --> 01:48:37.800] general delivery at the post office. [01:48:37.800 --> 01:48:39.800] But the court has to have a way to serve you. [01:48:39.800 --> 01:48:42.800] The other party has to have a way to serve you. [01:48:42.800 --> 01:48:45.800] If the other party files a motion with the court, [01:48:45.800 --> 01:48:49.800] they have to certify that they served it on you. [01:48:49.800 --> 01:48:51.800] But if they don't know who you are or where you are, [01:48:51.800 --> 01:48:53.800] there's no way they can do that. [01:48:53.800 --> 01:48:54.800] Okay, Randy, I'm sorry. [01:48:54.800 --> 01:48:56.800] I didn't realize what was going on. [01:48:56.800 --> 01:48:59.800] We were on the break because the music was playing in the background. [01:48:59.800 --> 01:49:01.800] There's something going on on your channel. [01:49:01.800 --> 01:49:02.800] It's real noisy. [01:49:02.800 --> 01:49:04.800] I can hardly understand what you're saying. [01:49:04.800 --> 01:49:10.800] Do you have a fan or some kind of equipment on over there? [01:49:10.800 --> 01:49:11.800] No, I don't. [01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:14.800] Okay, there's not an air filter or something like that? [01:49:14.800 --> 01:49:17.800] Let me see what I can sort out. [01:49:17.800 --> 01:49:18.800] Okay, all right. [01:49:18.800 --> 01:49:20.800] It's just, it's sounding really scratchy, [01:49:20.800 --> 01:49:24.800] and we're having a hard time understanding what you're saying. [01:49:24.800 --> 01:49:25.800] Okay, yeah, good point. [01:49:25.800 --> 01:49:27.800] You can have general delivery. [01:49:27.800 --> 01:49:29.800] And like I said, something about a post office box, [01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:33.800] but you still are going to have to give your name to the court, [01:49:33.800 --> 01:49:37.800] which means the other party will have your name. [01:49:37.800 --> 01:49:40.800] Okay, we are going now to Mary in Texas. [01:49:40.800 --> 01:49:41.800] Mary, thanks for calling in. [01:49:41.800 --> 01:49:43.800] What's on your mind? [01:49:43.800 --> 01:49:45.800] Hi, good evening, you guys. [01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:46.800] How are you all? [01:49:46.800 --> 01:49:49.800] Pretty good. [01:49:49.800 --> 01:49:54.800] Well, I'm doing pro se, I guess that's the word. [01:49:54.800 --> 01:49:58.800] I've been for custody, I've called before. [01:49:58.800 --> 01:50:05.800] And I am trying to figure out, I went to court last Wednesday, [01:50:05.800 --> 01:50:12.800] and the other lawyer wrote up a, I guess, [01:50:12.800 --> 01:50:17.800] the order from the court for me to supposedly sign. [01:50:17.800 --> 01:50:20.800] And it doesn't seem to contain what the judge ordered, [01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:24.800] which would be to my son to go to counseling with me [01:50:24.800 --> 01:50:28.800] and for him to be returned to me. [01:50:28.800 --> 01:50:32.800] And the judge ordered that, but they have yet to return him. [01:50:32.800 --> 01:50:37.800] So I tried to go do a writ for a habeas corpus myself this week. [01:50:37.800 --> 01:50:38.800] Wait, wait, wait. [01:50:38.800 --> 01:50:41.800] Did the judge sign the order the other attorney wrote up? [01:50:41.800 --> 01:50:45.800] No, she sent me, I got today, she sent me a fax. [01:50:45.800 --> 01:50:48.800] Okay, that is a proposed order. [01:50:48.800 --> 01:50:49.800] Yeah. [01:50:49.800 --> 01:50:50.800] It's a proposed order. [01:50:50.800 --> 01:50:54.800] You take that order and you write it the way you want it to be. [01:50:54.800 --> 01:50:57.800] So what does that language look like? [01:50:57.800 --> 01:50:58.800] I have no idea. [01:50:58.800 --> 01:51:00.800] I don't know what the order says. [01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:04.800] It says so-and-so appear in front of me, [01:51:04.800 --> 01:51:07.800] it's hereby ordered that they go to mediation. [01:51:07.800 --> 01:51:10.800] Okay, this is how you think about an order. [01:51:10.800 --> 01:51:14.800] What would you like to hear the judge say? [01:51:14.800 --> 01:51:17.800] Sequoia has written various orders to me to therapy. [01:51:17.800 --> 01:51:19.800] That's how you write up the order. [01:51:19.800 --> 01:51:20.800] Okay. [01:51:20.800 --> 01:51:22.800] You write up just what you want to hear the judge say [01:51:22.800 --> 01:51:26.800] and it doesn't have to be any special magic language. [01:51:26.800 --> 01:51:28.800] It is hereby ordered that. [01:51:28.800 --> 01:51:29.800] Okay. [01:51:29.800 --> 01:51:31.800] Just whatever you want to hear the judge say. [01:51:31.800 --> 01:51:34.800] So then I write that and then... [01:51:34.800 --> 01:51:36.800] Send it back to the other attorney. [01:51:36.800 --> 01:51:39.800] I give it back to the other attorney because she faxed it to the judge. [01:51:39.800 --> 01:51:41.800] So do I fax it to the judge too? [01:51:41.800 --> 01:51:45.800] Yeah, you fax your proposed to the judge. [01:51:45.800 --> 01:51:51.800] So then after that, do I call to set a hearing? [01:51:51.800 --> 01:51:52.800] How does that work? [01:51:52.800 --> 01:51:57.800] Because I'm saying that I'm not going to accept this and I want my order. [01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:05.800] So they would have to have a hearing to decide, right? [01:52:05.800 --> 01:52:08.800] Sorry, I have a little glitch there. [01:52:08.800 --> 01:52:10.800] Yeah, you fax it to the judge. [01:52:10.800 --> 01:52:16.800] But aren't I supposed to get them to set a hearing to hear that case? [01:52:16.800 --> 01:52:18.800] So I call them and say that to them? [01:52:18.800 --> 01:52:21.800] No, not the order. [01:52:21.800 --> 01:52:29.800] If the other attorney has sent a order, [01:52:29.800 --> 01:52:34.800] then there has to have already been a motion filed. [01:52:34.800 --> 01:52:39.800] Or there has to have been a hearing on a motion and the judge asked for order. [01:52:39.800 --> 01:52:43.800] Well, we had a hearing on Wednesday. [01:52:43.800 --> 01:52:45.800] Is that what you mean? [01:52:45.800 --> 01:52:46.800] Yes. [01:52:46.800 --> 01:52:47.800] Okay. [01:52:47.800 --> 01:52:52.800] And then the judge said to her, write up an order. [01:52:52.800 --> 01:52:55.800] And I read it and it didn't seem to have what it was supposed to. [01:52:55.800 --> 01:52:56.800] Okay. [01:52:56.800 --> 01:52:59.800] What did the judge rule? [01:52:59.800 --> 01:53:03.800] The judge ruled that my son was to be returned home immediately [01:53:03.800 --> 01:53:07.800] and to go to counseling and for us to go to mediation. [01:53:07.800 --> 01:53:15.800] Okay, then you write up an order that you object to the order the attorney wrote [01:53:15.800 --> 01:53:19.800] and that's why he sent you a copy so you could do that. [01:53:19.800 --> 01:53:25.800] And you propose an order that reflects what the judge said. [01:53:25.800 --> 01:53:29.800] Okay. [01:53:29.800 --> 01:53:34.800] And then at that point, I didn't say anything here about any dates, [01:53:34.800 --> 01:53:36.800] like how soon that needs to be done. [01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:38.800] Look, look, put whatever you want in it. [01:53:38.800 --> 01:53:39.800] Okay. [01:53:39.800 --> 01:53:42.800] Put whatever you want the judge to say, put it in there. [01:53:42.800 --> 01:53:43.800] Okay. [01:53:43.800 --> 01:53:46.800] So then I need to just do that like tomorrow, like as soon as possible? [01:53:46.800 --> 01:53:47.800] Yes. [01:53:47.800 --> 01:53:48.800] Okay. [01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:53.800] And then I call their administrator to see if we're going to have a court date [01:53:53.800 --> 01:53:54.800] or I just don't know how this works. [01:53:54.800 --> 01:53:55.800] Okay. [01:53:55.800 --> 01:54:03.800] First you send a copy to the clerk and a copy to the attorney on the other side. [01:54:03.800 --> 01:54:05.800] Right. [01:54:05.800 --> 01:54:08.800] And then the judge will sign the order. [01:54:08.800 --> 01:54:10.800] He'll sign the one he wants to. [01:54:10.800 --> 01:54:12.800] Oh, we shouldn't try to have a hearing? [01:54:12.800 --> 01:54:15.800] No, there's no hearing for that. [01:54:15.800 --> 01:54:18.800] Somebody told me that you're supposed to have a hearing. [01:54:18.800 --> 01:54:20.800] Yeah, we have a hearing. [01:54:20.800 --> 01:54:21.800] Oh. [01:54:21.800 --> 01:54:23.800] You don't have to have a hearing to sign an order. [01:54:23.800 --> 01:54:29.800] He had a hearing, made his decision, and apparently nobody had an order for him. [01:54:29.800 --> 01:54:30.800] Okay. [01:54:30.800 --> 01:54:35.800] Generally, when you file a motion, you include an order that the judge can just sign [01:54:35.800 --> 01:54:37.800] because he don't want to do any work. [01:54:37.800 --> 01:54:39.800] He don't have to make this up himself. [01:54:39.800 --> 01:54:42.800] If you want him to sign an order, you've got to make it for him. [01:54:42.800 --> 01:54:47.800] So generally, you send the order with your motion, but apparently nobody did that, [01:54:47.800 --> 01:54:50.800] so he asked for one. [01:54:50.800 --> 01:54:51.800] I'm sorry. [01:54:51.800 --> 01:54:53.800] I just don't understand this language very well. [01:54:53.800 --> 01:54:54.800] Okay. [01:54:54.800 --> 01:54:55.800] Well, it's just not that difficult. [01:54:55.800 --> 01:55:01.800] But once you read it a little bit, the real difference in legalese [01:55:01.800 --> 01:55:07.800] is they tend not to use pronouns. [01:55:07.800 --> 01:55:14.800] He, him, they, this, you know, what in the heck does that refer to? [01:55:14.800 --> 01:55:19.800] So they make their language very specific. [01:55:19.800 --> 01:55:23.800] Never use pronouns in a legal document. [01:55:23.800 --> 01:55:26.800] Always be very specific. [01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:30.800] Yeah, you'll also notice that they tend to leave out in lots of references [01:55:30.800 --> 01:55:36.800] the word the or the word a or the word an. [01:55:36.800 --> 01:55:40.800] It also tends to make it somewhat obtuse to read. [01:55:40.800 --> 01:55:45.800] Yeah, it sounds odd, but the word the means one previously mentioned. [01:55:45.800 --> 01:55:51.800] Well, one previously mentioned does not necessarily have specific referential index. [01:55:51.800 --> 01:55:56.800] Which specific one previously mentioned are you referring to? [01:55:56.800 --> 01:56:01.800] So instead of the, they will say plaintiff. [01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:03.800] I never use a pronoun. [01:56:03.800 --> 01:56:07.800] I always use plaintiff defendant instead of saying he or she, [01:56:07.800 --> 01:56:14.800] because an attorney will misconstrue anything he can. [01:56:14.800 --> 01:56:17.800] So you try to write your language. [01:56:17.800 --> 01:56:24.800] When you're writing it, think how can someone deliberately misconstrue what I'm saying? [01:56:24.800 --> 01:56:25.800] Right. [01:56:25.800 --> 01:56:30.800] So if I use a term that's not specific. [01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:31.800] Right. [01:56:31.800 --> 01:56:35.800] What could they apply this term to? [01:56:35.800 --> 01:56:39.800] Say, oh, I thought you meant this or I thought you meant that. [01:56:39.800 --> 01:56:47.800] Primarily the difference you'll find in normal language usage and legalese. [01:56:47.800 --> 01:56:51.800] And then there are those terms that are terms of art. [01:56:51.800 --> 01:56:52.800] Right. [01:56:52.800 --> 01:56:53.800] That have special legal means. [01:56:53.800 --> 01:56:55.800] I can't believe what a rigor moral it is. [01:56:55.800 --> 01:56:59.800] I mean, the judge ordered my son home and he didn't get brought home. [01:56:59.800 --> 01:57:05.800] My ex-husband decided he didn't have to do it, so he didn't. [01:57:05.800 --> 01:57:09.800] Okay, you have to file for a... [01:57:09.800 --> 01:57:10.800] Rid of habeas corpus. [01:57:10.800 --> 01:57:11.800] No, this is not. [01:57:11.800 --> 01:57:14.800] That really wouldn't go to habeas corpus. [01:57:14.800 --> 01:57:19.800] Well, I went to try to go do that, and it cost so much money I couldn't do it. [01:57:19.800 --> 01:57:21.800] It doesn't cost anything to file for habeas corpus. [01:57:21.800 --> 01:57:23.800] It costs $300. [01:57:23.800 --> 01:57:24.800] No, it doesn't. [01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:26.800] Well, I went in there and that's what they told me. [01:57:26.800 --> 01:57:28.800] Okay, this is what happened to me. [01:57:28.800 --> 01:57:31.800] I went to Johnson County to file for habeas corpus and the clerk said, [01:57:31.800 --> 01:57:35.800] Now, that'll be a $200 filing fee. I said, don't tell me that. [01:57:35.800 --> 01:57:36.800] She said, I have to tell you that. [01:57:36.800 --> 01:57:37.800] No, ma'am. [01:57:37.800 --> 01:57:39.800] Go get the elected clerk to tell me that. [01:57:39.800 --> 01:57:42.800] So she went and got the elected clerk and Lloyd came out. [01:57:42.800 --> 01:57:44.800] That'll be a $200 filing fee. [01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:46.800] Stay right here. [01:57:46.800 --> 01:57:47.800] Don't go anywhere. [01:57:47.800 --> 01:57:49.800] Somebody's going to want to talk to you. [01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:50.800] I took out my cell phone. [01:57:50.800 --> 01:57:52.800] I dialed 911. [01:57:52.800 --> 01:58:05.800] 11.156 code of criminal procedure says a filing fee for a writ of habeas corpus is prohibited. [01:58:05.800 --> 01:58:06.800] Really? [01:58:06.800 --> 01:58:08.800] Really. [01:58:08.800 --> 01:58:13.800] That's what it says and that's what it means. [01:58:13.800 --> 01:58:15.800] So you're saying there's something I can do that's simpler? [01:58:15.800 --> 01:58:17.800] You betcha. [01:58:17.800 --> 01:58:18.800] What? [01:58:18.800 --> 01:58:22.800] Okay. [01:58:22.800 --> 01:58:26.800] We'll leave that as a cliffhanger for next time because we are out of time. [01:58:26.800 --> 01:58:31.800] Call back tomorrow and we'll talk about one of my favorite subjects, [01:58:31.800 --> 01:58:34.800] how to kick the public officials behind. [01:58:34.800 --> 01:58:38.800] Randy Kelton, Debbie Steve and Debbie Craig, Root of Law Radio. [01:58:38.800 --> 01:58:40.800] We'll be back tomorrow at 8 o'clock. [01:58:40.800 --> 01:58:48.800] We'll be right back. [01:59:10.800 --> 01:59:12.800] We'll be right back. [01:59:40.800 --> 01:59:42.800] We'll be right back.