[00:00.000 --> 00:05.200]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[00:05.200 --> 00:11.240]  Japanese Prime Minister, Niyato Kahn, surprised Koreans with an apology Tuesday for an era
[00:11.240 --> 00:17.480]  of Japanese colonial rule that began a century ago this month and ended 45 years later with
[00:17.480 --> 00:20.300]  Japan's surrender in World War II.
[00:20.300 --> 00:25.560]  More than one million Koreans worked in Japan as slave laborers and thousands of Korean
[00:25.560 --> 00:30.480]  women served as prostitutes for Japanese soldiers.
[00:30.480 --> 00:37.080]  A recent EU report issued has revealed that biofuels, or fuel made from living renewable
[00:37.080 --> 00:44.040]  sources, produce four times more carbon dioxide pollution than conventional fossil fuels.
[00:44.040 --> 00:51.440]  Common biofuels like corn ethanol, a popular additive in gasoline, and soy biodiesel used
[00:51.440 --> 00:57.360]  in trucks and other diesel vehicles are considered environmentally friendly because they are
[00:57.360 --> 00:59.760]  renewable.
[00:59.760 --> 01:04.640]  New York Governor David Patterson offered state help Tuesday if the developers of a
[01:04.640 --> 01:09.400]  proposed mosque near Ground Zero agreed to move the project farther from the site.
[01:09.400 --> 01:14.400]  Patterson said that he doesn't oppose the project as planned, but indicated he understands
[01:14.400 --> 01:16.720]  where opponents are coming from.
[01:16.720 --> 01:22.600]  A worldwide treaty banning cluster bombs has become law in 38 countries.
[01:22.600 --> 01:27.960]  However, the US, Britain, Germany, France, Israel, China, and Russia, which account for
[01:27.960 --> 01:34.160]  most of the estimated 1 billion bomblets in the global stockpile, have rejected the treaty.
[01:34.160 --> 01:40.000]  The Convention on Cluster Munitions bans the production, use, stockpiling, and transfer
[01:40.000 --> 01:42.080]  of cluster weapons.
[01:42.080 --> 01:48.800]  Israel's use of cluster bombs during its 33-day war against Lebanon in 2006 prompted talks
[01:48.800 --> 01:50.360]  to ban the bombs.
[01:50.360 --> 01:55.800]  The UN estimates Israel dropped 4 million cluster bombs on civilian areas in southern
[01:55.800 --> 01:56.800]  Lebanon.
[01:56.800 --> 02:02.080]  Amnesty International said Sunday the global ban marked the most groundbreaking disarmament
[02:02.080 --> 02:05.000]  and humanitarian treaty in over a decade.
[02:05.000 --> 02:10.680]  Amnesty says unexploded bomblets kill and maim civilians, many of them children, long
[02:10.680 --> 02:12.600]  after a conflict is over.
[02:12.600 --> 02:20.400]  The US and Britain dropped cluster bombs on Iraq during the 2003 invasion.
[02:20.400 --> 02:24.960]  Widespread flooding in Pakistan has devastated basic infrastructure and could open the door
[02:24.960 --> 02:27.160]  to a Taliban resurgence.
[02:27.160 --> 02:31.400]  With swollen rivers still churning south, destruction is spreading by the hour.
[02:31.400 --> 02:37.320]  Prime Minister Yousaf Ghalani says the impact of the flooding has topped the 2005 Kashmir
[02:37.320 --> 02:38.320]  earthquake.
[02:38.320 --> 02:40.840]  1,600 died in the floods.
[02:40.840 --> 02:46.680]  But Ghalani called the scale of physical damage, quote, beyond imagination, adding Pakistan
[02:46.680 --> 02:51.880]  can ill afford such regression as it battles the Taliban insurgency that capitalizes on
[02:51.880 --> 02:54.680]  the government's failure to provide basic services.
[02:54.680 --> 03:10.720]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[04:24.680 --> 04:43.760]  All right, bad boys, bad boys, what are you going to do when we come for you?
[04:43.760 --> 04:47.600]  This is the rule of law.
[04:47.600 --> 04:55.400]  Tonight is August 12th, Thursday, August 12th.
[04:55.400 --> 04:57.920]  Randy Kelton is back.
[04:57.920 --> 04:58.920]  We've got Eddie Craig.
[04:58.920 --> 05:04.480]  And tonight for the first half hour, we have very special guest Karen Renick from Vote
[05:04.480 --> 05:05.840]  Rescue.
[05:05.840 --> 05:10.840]  And we're going to be discussing, I would like to get into what I would consider a few
[05:10.840 --> 05:18.880]  more sophisticated points of voting systems and the pros and cons regarding verification
[05:18.880 --> 05:20.240]  systems.
[05:20.240 --> 05:27.200]  And should we have any kind of electronic counting or verification system in addition
[05:27.200 --> 05:28.920]  to the paper ballots?
[05:28.920 --> 05:30.720]  This is what I would really like to get into.
[05:30.720 --> 05:32.320]  Karen, thanks for joining us tonight.
[05:32.320 --> 05:34.040]  Oh, you're welcome, Deborah.
[05:34.040 --> 05:35.320]  Thank you so much for having me on.
[05:35.320 --> 05:38.480]  It's been a little while and I always enjoy being on your program.
[05:38.480 --> 05:40.560]  So thank you very much for having me on.
[05:40.560 --> 05:41.560]  Oh, sure.
[05:41.560 --> 05:48.400]  Just to lay the groundwork here, I want to get into what I consider a total fraud and
[05:48.400 --> 05:54.440]  a pitfall in the voting system and the voting system reform community known as paper trail
[05:54.440 --> 06:02.000]  verification where the counting is still done electronically and then the voters get some
[06:02.000 --> 06:10.160]  kind of receipt for a paper trail that would be used to cast paper ballots either at the
[06:10.160 --> 06:14.680]  time like they may get their own receipt that they could take home in addition to a paper
[06:14.680 --> 06:17.060]  ballot that's put into a box.
[06:17.060 --> 06:24.240]  And what I found is that these verification systems really just are justification to continue
[06:24.240 --> 06:29.200]  the fraud because people think, oh, yes, now we have something in place that will make
[06:29.200 --> 06:30.400]  it all okay.
[06:30.400 --> 06:34.800]  But the counting is still done electronically and those paper ballots are only counted
[06:34.800 --> 06:40.080]  in the event that a candidate demands a recount.
[06:40.080 --> 06:46.320]  And even in those situations, it's something like only 5 percent of the precincts are counted
[06:46.320 --> 06:51.080]  or 5 percent of the overall vote is quote counted or recounted with these paper ballots
[06:51.080 --> 06:54.840]  and whoever is in charge gets to decide which precinct.
[06:54.840 --> 06:58.440]  So of course the results could be totally skewed.
[06:58.440 --> 07:04.080]  And so Karen, I just wanted you to address this verification system whether it be using
[07:04.080 --> 07:11.160]  paper to verify an electronic count or using electronic means to verify a paper count.
[07:11.160 --> 07:15.960]  And shouldn't we even bother with any of these kinds of verification systems whatsoever even
[07:15.960 --> 07:20.960]  if it's like say somebody, a voter gets a receipt that they can go look up on a website
[07:20.960 --> 07:21.960]  somewhere?
[07:21.960 --> 07:28.560]  I mean are these things even necessary or useful at all or could they even be used detrimentally?
[07:28.560 --> 07:35.000]  Well that's, you've covered a lot of territory there Deborah but I guess to answer your last
[07:35.000 --> 07:40.320]  question there in my opinion and the opinion of my colleagues at Vote Rescue and other
[07:40.320 --> 07:47.480]  activists around the country who believe as we do, we don't support any of these after
[07:47.480 --> 07:54.080]  the fact verifications whether they're checking online or you know paper trails whatever.
[07:54.080 --> 08:01.440]  I mean the quick answer is no, we don't think that that is a viable means, it is a red herring,
[08:01.440 --> 08:09.080]  it is a means of like you say sort of justifying the continuation of using electronic voting.
[08:09.080 --> 08:14.640]  But maybe just to be fair to those people who consistently come up with these ideas
[08:14.640 --> 08:24.320]  and we've got groups from League of Women Voters, you know supposedly these large groups,
[08:24.320 --> 08:29.280]  national groups that have a national presence let's say, they seem to be stuck on this whole
[08:29.280 --> 08:35.280]  thing of a paper trail and how that is going, you know that's the solution and we don't
[08:35.280 --> 08:38.120]  need to talk about anything else.
[08:38.120 --> 08:44.440]  And so maybe just for me to do a quick overview of what is out there now so that I can sort
[08:44.440 --> 08:50.600]  of clear, you know sort of set up you know some facts of what's out there right now in
[08:50.600 --> 08:57.560]  terms of the verified voter paper audit trails or the VVPATS as they're sometimes called
[08:57.560 --> 09:04.120]  because there are a number of states that have those right now and what that means is
[09:04.120 --> 09:09.600]  that it's typically where you've got one of these direct record electronic machines
[09:09.600 --> 09:16.960]  that are called DREs for short and if people in the listening audience tonight are in Travis
[09:16.960 --> 09:20.680]  County, we use a DRE here in Travis County.
[09:20.680 --> 09:27.760]  It's basically there is no paper essentially that's inherent to the machine.
[09:27.760 --> 09:33.000]  Everything is recorded electronically and counted electronically and tallied electronically.
[09:33.000 --> 09:38.800]  But what they've done as an afterthought to a lot of these DRE type machines is that they've
[09:38.800 --> 09:46.600]  added printers and this whole and that all came about because people said oh my god we
[09:46.600 --> 09:55.560]  have to have a printed record that could be counted if there was a closed election.
[09:55.560 --> 10:01.640]  And so the vendors who don't have a great track record to begin with decided they'd
[10:01.640 --> 10:10.320]  tack on a very flimsy printer mechanism that used for one thing thermal paper which as
[10:10.320 --> 10:15.720]  we all know thermal paper, the ink on the thermal paper disappears after a certain amount
[10:15.720 --> 10:22.080]  of time so it's not a permanent record, certainly isn't going to last 22 months or whatever.
[10:22.080 --> 10:27.960]  And the idea is not that the person, the voter gets a receipt like you'd get a receipt at
[10:27.960 --> 10:33.560]  a store and you walk out of the polling place with a receipt, nothing leaves the polling
[10:33.560 --> 10:42.160]  place at all but you are allowed to view how you voted through a little window on the side
[10:42.160 --> 10:51.040]  of the machine where this printer's been added and this tape is a very, to record how you
[10:51.040 --> 10:56.760]  voted it's basically a long receipt and it doesn't look anything like the ballot you
[10:56.760 --> 11:02.760]  see on the screen, it's basically just sort of like a daisy wheel type of printing and
[11:02.760 --> 11:09.080]  it prints out how you voted and you're supposed to be able to check that as you're voting
[11:09.080 --> 11:18.320]  and what they've discovered and they've done, people have done user tests with these setups
[11:18.320 --> 11:25.440]  and they've found a number of interesting outcomes of this and they've discovered that
[11:25.440 --> 11:32.920]  for one, hardly anybody checks it if given the opportunity, about a third or less people
[11:32.920 --> 11:38.920]  if they have that on the ZRE don't even bother to check it.
[11:38.920 --> 11:45.280]  And then they find that of the people that do check it, I forget the percentages but
[11:45.280 --> 11:51.200]  a great number of them when they check it, they don't even know if they've discovered
[11:51.200 --> 11:56.600]  a mistake or not because in these tests and studies they've done, they've purposely put
[11:56.600 --> 12:04.520]  in incorrect paper audit trails so they could see if people really know if they see a mistake,
[12:04.520 --> 12:10.280]  whether they're going to be able to catch it or not and they've found that so many people
[12:10.280 --> 12:15.360]  don't even catch the mistake so even if they take the time to look at it, a lot of people
[12:15.360 --> 12:20.640]  aren't going to find it and it's a very tedious process to do that checking back and forth
[12:20.640 --> 12:23.440]  too.
[12:23.440 --> 12:35.840]  And then what they've also found is that 10 to 20% of those paper audit trails aren't
[12:35.840 --> 12:42.200]  available after the election for counting purposes because the printer's jam, they either
[12:42.200 --> 12:49.400]  print wrong information, they just don't print it all, whatever but if you think about it,
[12:49.400 --> 12:57.280]  the whole purpose for these so-called paper audit trails is to have a supposedly voter
[12:57.280 --> 13:10.080]  verified paper record of the voter's vote but if 10 to 20% of these paper records aren't
[13:10.080 --> 13:18.120]  even available for counting purposes then they do no good because you'd never be able
[13:18.120 --> 13:20.240]  to count all the votes.
[13:20.240 --> 13:30.080]  You'd be 10 to 20% off of what the real count would be if these paper trails were totally
[13:30.080 --> 13:31.080]  accurate.
[13:31.080 --> 13:33.480]  That just seems totally illogical to me.
[13:33.480 --> 13:41.040]  I mean just the whole concept of verifying an election after the fact just, it just does
[13:41.040 --> 13:47.880]  not make sense to me at all and especially with this 10 to 20% discrepancy, well that
[13:47.880 --> 13:53.760]  could change the entire election obviously especially if it's a close race.
[13:53.760 --> 13:58.280]  And to trigger say if you were going to go and use these paper audit trails, the ones
[13:58.280 --> 14:04.680]  that are out there now, I said it was tedious and it's extremely tedious if you then take
[14:04.680 --> 14:10.000]  all these rolls and you try and unroll them and you have to cut them up.
[14:10.000 --> 14:16.920]  I mean it takes five times longer to count those than it does say if the voter recorded
[14:16.920 --> 14:21.680]  their ballot to begin with on a paper ballot and then it got scanned.
[14:21.680 --> 14:30.240]  And then they just, if it's going to trigger a recount of some sort, if someone is messing
[14:30.240 --> 14:36.760]  around with the election, you know, manipulating the vote through the machines, the programming
[14:36.760 --> 14:41.240]  and everything, they're not going to have it come out to be a close election that would
[14:41.240 --> 14:43.400]  trigger a recount.
[14:43.400 --> 14:49.480]  So that's sort of I think an erroneous assumption that oh God we've got this in case it's a
[14:49.480 --> 14:50.480]  close election.
[14:50.480 --> 14:57.520]  So there's just a number of reasons why it's just, it's not a real solution.
[14:57.520 --> 15:03.800]  It sounds good, it may sound comforting but for one you're not walking out of there with
[15:03.800 --> 15:04.800]  a receipt.
[15:04.800 --> 15:10.280]  They will never let people do that because what that can lead to is actually selling
[15:10.280 --> 15:16.000]  your vote and that is definitely against the law because if you can walk out of a polling
[15:16.000 --> 15:22.440]  place with a paper that's been, you know, supposedly looks, you know, has been made
[15:22.440 --> 15:28.680]  to be a legitimate record of your ballot of how you voted then you can go and get paid
[15:28.680 --> 15:36.480]  by someone because you're proving to them how you voted and that is totally illegal.
[15:36.480 --> 15:40.440]  And what if it was just a receipt like with a PIN number or something where you could
[15:40.440 --> 15:46.080]  log into a website to verify how you voted that basically would involve the same thing.
[15:46.080 --> 15:52.320]  You could still prove to somebody how you voted which would incur the potential for
[15:52.320 --> 15:53.320]  selling votes.
[15:53.320 --> 15:54.320]  Absolutely.
[15:54.320 --> 15:58.600]  And then there was another thing too I wanted to mention is that these computers have been
[15:58.600 --> 16:05.120]  proven, they can be programmed so that it can record one thing on this paper audit trail
[16:05.120 --> 16:10.080]  and if somebody was smart enough and wanted to look at it and could remember how they
[16:10.080 --> 16:16.280]  voted and all that and it was exactly as they remembered, you know, casting their vote,
[16:16.280 --> 16:22.800]  the machine can still record and count something totally different just because the printed
[16:22.800 --> 16:26.720]  piece of paper is coming out doesn't prove that that's how the machine votes.
[16:26.720 --> 16:27.720]  Oh absolutely, absolutely.
[16:27.720 --> 16:33.360]  And for that matter if you go online to some website and check to see if that's how you
[16:33.360 --> 16:37.320]  voted, who's to say that that's how your vote was actually counted.
[16:37.320 --> 16:38.320]  Absolutely.
[16:38.320 --> 16:41.840]  It's still separated from the actual counting process.
[16:41.840 --> 16:44.760]  There's still no chain of custody in other words.
[16:44.760 --> 16:47.440]  You got it, that's right and that's where we get back to that.
[16:47.440 --> 16:50.680]  Okay Karen, just hang on the line, we've got one more segment with you, we appreciate you
[16:50.680 --> 16:53.840]  taking the time out of your evening to discuss this issue with us.
[16:53.840 --> 17:03.120]  We're with Karen Rinnick from Vote Rescue, we'll be right back folks.
[17:03.120 --> 17:08.400]  Capital Coin and Bullion is your local source for rare coins, precious metals and coin supplies
[17:08.400 --> 17:10.420]  in the Austin metro area.
[17:10.420 --> 17:12.460]  We also ship worldwide.
[17:12.460 --> 17:16.520]  We are a family owned and operated business that offers competitive prices on your coin
[17:16.520 --> 17:18.000]  and metals purchases.
[17:18.000 --> 17:23.160]  We buy, sell, trade and consign rare coins, gold and silver coin collections, precious
[17:23.160 --> 17:25.080]  metals and scrap gold.
[17:25.080 --> 17:28.680]  We will purchase and sell gold and jewelry items as well.
[17:28.680 --> 17:35.600]  We offer daily specials on coins and bullion, we're located at 5448 Burnett Road Suite 3
[17:35.600 --> 17:41.240]  and we're open Monday through Friday 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., Saturdays 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.
[17:41.240 --> 17:48.640]  You are welcome to stop in our shop during regular business hours or call 512-646-6440
[17:48.640 --> 17:49.640]  with any questions.
[17:49.640 --> 17:55.160]  Ask for Chad and say you heard about us on Rule of Law Radio or 90.1 FM, that's Capital
[17:55.160 --> 18:00.160]  Coin and Bullion, 512-646-6440.
[18:25.160 --> 18:40.400]  Okay, folks, we're back with Karen Rennick from Vote Rescue here on Rule of Law Radio,
[18:40.400 --> 18:51.120]  ruleoflawradio.com and okay, so we've addressed why we need to put the Ixnay on paper verification
[18:51.120 --> 18:54.080]  of electronic counting.
[18:54.080 --> 18:59.360]  And so now we also want to put the Ixnay, we want to give reasons for why there needs
[18:59.360 --> 19:07.320]  to be the Ixnay on electronic verification of paper counting to show the opposite side
[19:07.320 --> 19:08.320]  of the coin.
[19:08.320 --> 19:12.760]  And before we get into that, I just want to make another comment concerning paper votes
[19:12.760 --> 19:15.040]  and electronic counting.
[19:15.040 --> 19:21.520]  What these rogues, these scallywags have tried to do is say, well, how about this, you guys
[19:21.520 --> 19:26.040]  get to have paper votes but they're going to be scanned, okay?
[19:26.040 --> 19:31.360]  It's like they want to do everything, anything and everything except the way that they're
[19:31.360 --> 19:37.720]  supposed to do it, I mean, for obvious reasons so that they can skew and manipulate the count.
[19:37.720 --> 19:46.480]  And so what we found and even Stanford University did a study on, I believe it was the heart
[19:46.480 --> 19:51.720]  machines where you have paper votes, where you fill it out, you know, like with a number
[19:51.720 --> 19:58.840]  two pencil or ink, either one in a little bubble and they're scanned by an optical scanner.
[19:58.840 --> 20:04.960]  And then the internal software does the counting, so you guessed it folks, what's going to happen
[20:04.960 --> 20:05.960]  there.
[20:05.960 --> 20:12.760]  And what the Stanford University findings, what the findings yielded were that when the
[20:12.760 --> 20:20.720]  machine was in test mode for the election judges to test the equipment, the counting
[20:20.720 --> 20:22.040]  came out accurate.
[20:22.040 --> 20:23.040]  Surprise, surprise.
[20:23.040 --> 20:24.040]  Big surprise.
[20:24.040 --> 20:25.040]  Oh jeez, see it works.
[20:25.040 --> 20:26.040]  It works perfectly.
[20:26.040 --> 20:27.040]  Yeah, it works.
[20:27.040 --> 20:37.560]  Okay, but then when they switch to real mode, real election mode, they found that the counting
[20:37.560 --> 20:44.160]  was not accurate and that even the number of ballots cast was different from the total
[20:44.160 --> 20:45.480]  number of ballots counted.
[20:45.480 --> 20:51.560]  And so that just goes to show, sorry folks, if the electronic, if the counting is done
[20:51.560 --> 20:57.920]  electronically, you just can't trust it and we can't rely on paper verification after
[20:57.920 --> 21:03.440]  the fact because even if we could do that, it would involve lawsuits and by then somebody
[21:03.440 --> 21:07.200]  will have taken office and damage would have been done and all these kinds of ridiculous
[21:07.200 --> 21:08.200]  things.
[21:08.200 --> 21:14.160]  So now on that note, Karen, I would like you to address why electronic verification or
[21:14.160 --> 21:21.080]  validation of paper counting or some kind of simultaneous side-by-side counting system
[21:21.080 --> 21:27.800]  of electronic versus paper, why is that totally a ridiculous notion in and of itself?
[21:27.800 --> 21:32.280]  Well it just raises the big question to me is that okay, well which count is then going
[21:32.280 --> 21:34.360]  to take precedence?
[21:34.360 --> 21:44.440]  And typically if you do do some sort of a recount, it's typically the paper, the paper
[21:44.440 --> 21:50.360]  ballot let's call it, that takes precedence, but if you're involving a machine to count
[21:50.360 --> 21:57.240]  it and then you've got, but in this scenario, Deborah, you're assuming that there will be
[21:57.240 --> 22:03.360]  a hand count of the paper ballots parallel to or whatever, an electronic counting.
[22:03.360 --> 22:09.520]  Like maybe the official count is supposed to be the paper, but then there would also
[22:09.520 --> 22:16.160]  be some kind of electronic count or something like that to cross check or whatever.
[22:16.160 --> 22:21.080]  A huge waste of money if in the end it's always going to be the hand count.
[22:21.080 --> 22:31.400]  Now I suppose it's always fine to have another system to sort of be as a check in a way,
[22:31.400 --> 22:37.080]  but if we already don't trust the electronic counting by the secret counting that happens
[22:37.080 --> 22:45.120]  inside these machines, I'm not sure why we would necessarily want to use a computerized
[22:45.120 --> 22:47.920]  count to even verify a hand count.
[22:47.920 --> 22:53.120]  I mean the gold standard in counting is hand counting.
[22:53.120 --> 22:58.640]  So it doesn't make any sense you're just adding that much more expense of maintaining these
[22:58.640 --> 23:07.840]  machines and all the upkeep that they need and the storage, etc., that the machines require.
[23:07.840 --> 23:14.600]  So we just think, I mean, why are we just doing what's right, doing the count so that
[23:14.600 --> 23:21.480]  there's a continuous observable flow of the election process?
[23:21.480 --> 23:28.600]  It's that chain of custody we're talking about, but it's not just police officers, you know,
[23:28.600 --> 23:33.720]  transporting a box to somewhere because anything can happen when that's transported.
[23:33.720 --> 23:41.320]  It's that every step in the process has to be publicly viewable, you know, people must
[23:41.320 --> 23:48.760]  be able to see them and there should be nothing that goes sort of disappears, whether it disappears
[23:48.760 --> 23:56.640]  inside a machine so that that machine is doing a process or the boxes or whatever get transported,
[23:56.640 --> 23:59.080]  they get taken to another room, whatever.
[23:59.080 --> 24:07.080]  I mean everything really has to happen in one continuous public flow of a process.
[24:07.080 --> 24:17.000]  And once you start bringing in machines right there, it's gone to being publicly unobservable.
[24:17.000 --> 24:23.200]  So it's no longer a public election, which is the big problem.
[24:23.200 --> 24:24.200]  Right.
[24:24.200 --> 24:25.200]  And go ahead.
[24:25.200 --> 24:28.960]  Well, I was just going to say, I mean, no system is perfect.
[24:28.960 --> 24:32.160]  And people say, well, we're paper ballots, you're still going to have people cheating.
[24:32.160 --> 24:35.920]  And we go, well, sure, because everybody wants to cheat in elections.
[24:35.920 --> 24:38.520]  I mean, everybody wants to win.
[24:38.520 --> 24:47.120]  The wonderful human spirit that is desperate, you know, to win all the marbles.
[24:47.120 --> 24:56.960]  So we just want to say, let's use a system that makes it incredibly difficult to cheat.
[24:56.960 --> 25:04.200]  So we're just trying to remove every step that anything is obscured from, you know,
[25:04.200 --> 25:06.240]  from the public view.
[25:06.240 --> 25:07.240]  So.
[25:07.240 --> 25:08.240]  Right.
[25:08.240 --> 25:11.880]  And what I've said on this show several times is that the only way we're going to have a
[25:11.880 --> 25:17.520]  real election is number one, you've got to have paper ballots.
[25:17.520 --> 25:21.360]  And I want to be there as a member of the public or some other member of the public,
[25:21.360 --> 25:22.360]  stand there.
[25:22.360 --> 25:25.600]  I want to make sure the box is empty to start off with.
[25:25.600 --> 25:30.000]  I'm going to watch as every ballot goes into the box, not necessarily look at the ballot
[25:30.000 --> 25:35.080]  first, but make sure there's only one ballot per hand that gets in, that goes into the
[25:35.080 --> 25:38.760]  box and watch it all day long to make sure it don't get stuffed.
[25:38.760 --> 25:39.760]  All right.
[25:39.760 --> 25:44.920]  And then at the end of the day, then the box gets dumped out on the table or they get taken
[25:44.920 --> 25:46.600]  out one by one or whatever.
[25:46.600 --> 25:48.400]  I'm going to stand behind.
[25:48.400 --> 25:53.080]  There should be a video camera on the box all day long, by the way, as well, that live
[25:53.080 --> 25:57.680]  streams to the internet, to the public, so that anyone and everyone can, you know, like
[25:57.680 --> 26:02.080]  using the quick app or something, so that anyone and everyone can watch the box all
[26:02.080 --> 26:06.920]  day long and make sure that only one ballot with one hand goes in at a time.
[26:06.920 --> 26:12.960]  And then likewise, when the counting comes time, the video camera is still on.
[26:12.960 --> 26:18.840]  People are there watching down over the shoulders of the counters and looking at the ballots
[26:18.840 --> 26:24.040]  at that point in the camera and in public and making sure that the tick marks go in
[26:24.040 --> 26:30.640]  the correct tally column and then make sure that the tally is added up correctly, by the
[26:30.640 --> 26:37.280]  way, and that then those accurate additions, mathematical additions are posted on the precinct
[26:37.280 --> 26:39.960]  door at the place where the ballots were cast.
[26:39.960 --> 26:45.400]  And then people can drive around, look at the results, make sure that they match what
[26:45.400 --> 26:52.600]  is actually reported to the county and that those all add up correctly and that that matches
[26:52.600 --> 26:53.600]  what goes to the state.
[26:53.600 --> 26:56.560]  That's the only way we're going to have an accurate election.
[26:56.560 --> 27:01.680]  And if things are done that way, I really don't see the need for bringing in any electronics
[27:01.680 --> 27:06.600]  whatsoever because all that's going to do in my book is muddy the waters and just muddy
[27:06.600 --> 27:11.920]  up the whole situation and say, well, we need to redo this or that or the machines say this
[27:11.920 --> 27:12.920]  or that.
[27:12.920 --> 27:14.240]  And it just doesn't make any sense to me.
[27:14.240 --> 27:17.840]  If you do it right the first time, then you don't need to bother about any of those other
[27:17.840 --> 27:18.840]  things.
[27:18.840 --> 27:19.840]  That's right.
[27:19.840 --> 27:23.360]  And there's so many red herrings that keep throwing into the mix.
[27:23.360 --> 27:28.760]  I mean, they keep bringing in open source because, oh, my God, if we do open source,
[27:28.760 --> 27:34.040]  then it's not the vendors with their secret proprietary programs.
[27:34.040 --> 27:38.040]  The open source, you know, lots of people would know what the program is.
[27:38.040 --> 27:42.960]  The problem with that, and I wanted to bring up the German decision by the Supreme Court
[27:42.960 --> 27:49.080]  in Germany, which was last year in March, they extensively banned electronic voting
[27:49.080 --> 27:50.080]  in Germany.
[27:50.080 --> 27:55.160]  They basically declared it to be unconstitutional, and they based it on several reasons.
[27:55.160 --> 28:00.920]  They said people should not have to have a technical expertise, like in computers, to
[28:00.920 --> 28:04.440]  be able to understand how their votes are being counted, and they have to be able to
[28:04.440 --> 28:10.120]  observe the counting to know it's been done accurately.
[28:10.120 --> 28:14.920]  And the only way to do that is to actually observe the counting being done.
[28:14.920 --> 28:21.360]  And they also said that post-audits, like, you know, checking things after the fact,
[28:21.360 --> 28:24.800]  it doesn't substitute for getting it correctly on the first count.
[28:24.800 --> 28:31.640]  I mean, everything about that decision was right on, and it's just amazing that that
[28:31.640 --> 28:37.560]  news of that Supreme Court decision did not get into any mainstream papers here in the
[28:37.560 --> 28:38.560]  United States.
[28:38.560 --> 28:43.920]  They did not want that story broadcast around, because then people would start going, oh,
[28:43.920 --> 28:51.680]  Germany, you know, has come to this conclusion, and boy, they've come a long way since, you
[28:51.680 --> 28:53.480]  know, back in the 40s and everything.
[28:53.480 --> 28:58.520]  They've got a constitution that we helped them, you know, put in place.
[28:58.520 --> 29:03.720]  Now, Karen, just quickly, because we're about to come to the end of this segment here.
[29:03.720 --> 29:05.240]  What about handicapped?
[29:05.240 --> 29:10.680]  How do we deal with people who are blind and want to cast paper ballots?
[29:10.680 --> 29:14.600]  There are machines that are simply ballot markers.
[29:14.600 --> 29:22.000]  They do not do any tallying whatsoever, and those are out there now, and every precinct
[29:22.000 --> 29:28.880]  would have to have some sort of a means, like a ballot marker, for someone with a disability
[29:28.880 --> 29:30.760]  to be able to cast their ballot.
[29:30.760 --> 29:31.760]  Excellent.
[29:31.760 --> 29:33.040]  And those are out there now.
[29:33.040 --> 29:34.040]  All right.
[29:34.040 --> 29:35.040]  We do have a caller on the line.
[29:35.040 --> 29:36.040]  Quickly, Rob.
[29:36.040 --> 29:37.040]  Do you have a question for Karen?
[29:37.040 --> 29:38.040]  Oh, well...
[29:38.040 --> 29:43.120]  Do you have a question for our guest, Karen, or no?
[29:43.120 --> 29:45.160]  Well, yeah, actually, I do.
[29:45.160 --> 29:48.560]  Okay, Karen, can you stay on the line to answer Rob's question?
[29:48.560 --> 29:50.920]  Yeah, I can stay a few more minutes, sure.
[29:50.920 --> 29:51.920]  Okay, great.
[29:51.920 --> 29:56.680]  All right, Rob, stay on the line, and we will take your call for Karen Renick, a vote rescue
[29:56.680 --> 29:57.680]  right on the other side.
[29:57.680 --> 29:58.680]  We'll be right back.
[29:58.680 --> 30:06.680]  It is so enlightening to listen to 90.1 FM, but finding things on the Internet isn't so
[30:06.680 --> 30:10.240]  easy, and neither is finding like-minded people to share it with.
[30:10.240 --> 30:13.200]  Oh, well, I guess you haven't heard of Brave New Books, then.
[30:13.200 --> 30:14.200]  Brave New Books?
[30:14.200 --> 30:15.200]  Yes.
[30:15.200 --> 30:19.560]  Brave New Books has all the books and DVDs you're looking for by authors like Alex Jones,
[30:19.560 --> 30:21.560]  Ron Paul, Angie Edward Griffin.
[30:21.560 --> 30:24.920]  They even stock inner food, Berkey products, and Calvin Soaps.
[30:24.920 --> 30:27.880]  There's no way a place like that exists.
[30:27.880 --> 30:29.360]  Go check it out for yourself.
[30:29.360 --> 30:33.720]  It's downtown at 1904 Guadalupe Street, just south of UT.
[30:33.720 --> 30:37.120]  By UT, there's never anywhere to park down there.
[30:37.120 --> 30:42.320]  Actually, they now offer a free hour of parking for paying customers at the 500 MLK parking
[30:42.320 --> 30:45.320]  facility just behind the bookstore.
[30:45.320 --> 30:48.320]  It does exist, but when are they open?
[30:48.320 --> 30:52.760]  Monday through Saturday, 11 AM to 9 PM, and 1 to 6 PM on Sundays.
[30:52.760 --> 31:01.960]  So give them a call at 512-480-2503, or check out their events page at bravenewbookstore.com.
[31:01.960 --> 31:05.120]  Are you the plaintiff or defendant in a lawsuit?
[31:05.120 --> 31:11.840]  Win your case without an attorney with Jurisdictionary, the affordable, easy to understand, 4-CD course
[31:11.840 --> 31:16.400]  that will show you how in 24 hours, step-by-step.
[31:16.400 --> 31:19.680]  If you have a lawyer, know what your lawyer should be doing.
[31:19.680 --> 31:23.880]  If you don't have a lawyer, know what you should do for yourself.
[31:23.880 --> 31:28.760]  Thousands have won with our step-by-step course, and now you can too.
[31:28.760 --> 31:35.520]  Jurisdictionary was created by a licensed attorney with 22 years of case-winning experience.
[31:35.520 --> 31:40.040]  Even if you're not in a lawsuit, you can learn what everyone should understand about the
[31:40.040 --> 31:43.840]  principles and practices that control our American courts.
[31:43.840 --> 31:50.520]  You'll receive our audio classroom, video seminar, tutorials, forms for civil cases,
[31:50.520 --> 31:53.320]  pro se tactics, and much more.
[31:53.320 --> 32:00.320]  Please visit ruleoflawradio.com and click on the banner or call toll-free, 866-LAW-EZ.
[32:23.320 --> 32:45.720]  We're talking right now about abuse of power when it comes to elections, and for all those
[32:45.720 --> 32:48.880]  computer geeks out there and computer techs, I'm one of them.
[32:48.880 --> 32:50.080]  I'm a computer programmer.
[32:50.080 --> 32:52.960]  My degree is in computer science from UT.
[32:52.960 --> 32:59.720]  It's not a matter of whether or not the computer is capable of counting accurately.
[32:59.720 --> 33:05.840]  It's whether or not somebody is going to program the computer to count it accurately.
[33:05.840 --> 33:09.640]  I don't extend my trust that far when it comes to our elections.
[33:09.640 --> 33:14.480]  That's my response for people who want to argue about how wonderful or technologically
[33:14.480 --> 33:16.960]  advanced these systems are or can be.
[33:16.960 --> 33:18.400]  It doesn't matter.
[33:18.400 --> 33:24.920]  We still have to have a way as the public to ensure on a real-time basis that the votes
[33:24.920 --> 33:30.400]  are being counted accurately, and there's no way to do that inside a computer.
[33:30.400 --> 33:33.160]  Okay, so we're going now to Rob in Connecticut.
[33:33.160 --> 33:34.640]  What is your question for Karen?
[33:34.640 --> 33:35.640]  Yeah.
[33:35.640 --> 33:39.040]  Well, this is the most important thing that we have to deal with, because if we can't
[33:39.040 --> 33:43.360]  get this right, almost everything else we do doesn't matter.
[33:43.360 --> 33:47.160]  I'm a member of CT election audit here in Connecticut.
[33:47.160 --> 33:48.160]  Oh, good.
[33:48.160 --> 33:49.160]  I didn't know about your group, Rob.
[33:49.160 --> 33:50.160]  Yes.
[33:50.160 --> 33:51.160]  Yeah.
[33:51.160 --> 33:52.920]  This will be my third year doing it now.
[33:52.920 --> 33:55.360]  We're about to do it in about one and a half weeks.
[33:55.360 --> 33:57.600]  We're going to start the primary we just had.
[33:57.600 --> 34:01.600]  If there's anyone in Connecticut listening, we need more people to do this.
[34:01.600 --> 34:08.040]  Just go to ctelectionaudit.org and sign up and be a volunteer.
[34:08.040 --> 34:14.040]  What we do is we count... We don't count, but we observe the recount process, because
[34:14.040 --> 34:20.160]  we have those machines, the exact same d-balled machines that were in the hacking democracy,
[34:20.160 --> 34:24.880]  and 10% of the precincts are selected at random after every election.
[34:24.880 --> 34:32.180]  This is Connecticut state law, and people are assigned to these different polling places
[34:32.180 --> 34:34.600]  to observe the recounts.
[34:34.600 --> 34:39.560]  I actually observed a computer error in one of the recounts I was involved in.
[34:39.560 --> 34:44.080]  It was because someone, instead of filling in the little circle, they circled the candidate's
[34:44.080 --> 34:50.560]  name, and their candidate didn't get counted, but a little piece of the line went through
[34:50.560 --> 34:56.160]  someone else's box, and that vote got counted instead of the guy that he wanted to vote
[34:56.160 --> 34:57.160]  for.
[34:57.160 --> 34:58.160]  There are errors.
[34:58.160 --> 34:59.880]  There are flaws in these systems.
[34:59.880 --> 35:03.680]  Now, Rob, was this regarding scanning paper ballots?
[35:03.680 --> 35:05.560]  Is that the system that was used?
[35:05.560 --> 35:06.560]  Yes.
[35:06.560 --> 35:07.560]  Yes.
[35:07.560 --> 35:08.560]  Okay.
[35:08.560 --> 35:09.560]  It's on your pencil.
[35:09.560 --> 35:11.280]  On a paper, and then it gets scanned.
[35:11.280 --> 35:12.280]  Okay.
[35:12.280 --> 35:13.280]  Yes.
[35:13.280 --> 35:17.880]  Now, if I'm correct, Rob, didn't you guys discover that they weren't doing the audits
[35:17.880 --> 35:21.600]  correctly, and they weren't being consistent about them?
[35:21.600 --> 35:26.120]  This is the whole problem with RELY, because people love to say, oh, we'll do paper ballots,
[35:26.120 --> 35:29.360]  and we'll scan them, and then we'll do audits.
[35:29.360 --> 35:33.200]  Every time you get down to examining, what does it mean to audit?
[35:33.200 --> 35:37.920]  First of all, it's unfair, because you're only going to check 10% of the votes that
[35:37.920 --> 35:44.320]  were cast to see if they were counted, so you're not examining everybody's ballots,
[35:44.320 --> 35:50.920]  so that's being partial to 10% of the voters, and then you find out recounts, or in this
[35:50.920 --> 35:53.760]  case, these audits or spot checks, can be rigged.
[35:53.760 --> 35:59.760]  I mean, it's been done, and then a lot of times, they happen so far after, even after
[35:59.760 --> 36:05.800]  the election has been certified, that they're useless, so it's also a red herring in my
[36:05.800 --> 36:12.120]  book, frankly, but I think finding flaws in the system you're stuck with is a good way
[36:12.120 --> 36:16.840]  to go, and I admire the work you're doing up there.
[36:16.840 --> 36:19.640]  It's an absolute joke, the way they do it.
[36:19.640 --> 36:21.520]  Some of the towns, they do a very good job.
[36:21.520 --> 36:26.680]  They're very thorough, they're very organized, but we were in one city in Connecticut last
[36:26.680 --> 36:30.480]  year, and it was almost a disgrace what they were doing.
[36:30.480 --> 36:32.440]  It was like a big joke to them.
[36:32.440 --> 36:35.160]  They weren't taking it seriously.
[36:35.160 --> 36:41.920]  They didn't do a good, accurate recount, and it was just very sad to see that.
[36:41.920 --> 36:47.120]  Now, Debra, when you were spelling out the way it should be, that is exactly the same
[36:47.120 --> 36:51.720]  system that I have envisioned, and what I would like to know, is there anyone out there
[36:51.720 --> 36:59.360]  who has actually built a box to demonstrate to cities and towns saying, look, this is
[36:59.360 --> 37:00.360]  the way it should be.
[37:00.360 --> 37:03.800]  We've got a box set up, we've got the cameras set up watching, we've got people watching,
[37:03.800 --> 37:07.920]  so you can actually demonstrate, because people like things that they can see.
[37:07.920 --> 37:12.720]  It's great to say, yeah, we need hand-counted paper ballots, but that's just a concept.
[37:12.720 --> 37:17.920]  If you show them a working model, yeah, here's the box, this is how it works.
[37:17.920 --> 37:18.920]  That's what we need.
[37:18.920 --> 37:23.040]  We need to build a system and bring it around and show it and sell it to people.
[37:23.040 --> 37:32.480]  Well, let me tell you, Rob, in the state of New Hampshire, one-third of the polling places
[37:32.480 --> 37:40.240]  in New Hampshire still do hand-counting, and if you go to Democracy for New Hampshire,
[37:40.240 --> 37:45.360]  on their website, there's some wonderful little videos that have been taken of election night,
[37:45.360 --> 37:53.040]  I think in 2004, of three different townships, and they're wonderful videos showing exactly
[37:53.040 --> 37:57.920]  the process that we're talking about.
[37:57.920 --> 38:02.880]  There are other jurisdictions around the country that still do hand-count here in Texas.
[38:02.880 --> 38:09.520]  We used to have 88 counties do the hand-counting, since HAVA came in, and we could do a whole
[38:09.520 --> 38:14.240]  show on HAVA, so we'll even get into that, but it was a real ruse in terms of getting
[38:14.240 --> 38:22.200]  these machines into every jurisdiction, basically, that number has dropped to probably around
[38:22.200 --> 38:26.860]  10 counties that still exclusively hand-count.
[38:26.860 --> 38:31.760]  They're using ballot markers to comply with HAVA, but they hand-count everything else,
[38:31.760 --> 38:37.480]  and it is such a crying shame that that number had to drop so drastically, because a lot
[38:37.480 --> 38:43.400]  of counties were persuaded that, oh, everybody has to vote on machines, or they just knew,
[38:43.400 --> 38:47.600]  once machines get in the door, the election officials and administrators are going to
[38:47.600 --> 38:52.320]  find, oh, they're so much easier, I can go home by 9 o'clock.
[38:52.320 --> 38:53.840]  Everything gets distorted.
[38:53.840 --> 38:58.560]  All the priorities get turned upside down, and now it's all about convenience, and it's
[38:58.560 --> 39:00.960]  like, where is everybody?
[39:00.960 --> 39:03.080]  Why are we all asleep on this thing?
[39:03.080 --> 39:08.640]  Well, Karen, from what I remember, we were discussing this issue about the hand-counting,
[39:08.640 --> 39:13.460]  and Rob, this is the way things used to be done in Travis County at all the precincts
[39:13.460 --> 39:18.080]  before the machines came in, and Karen, I think I remember you telling me that you guys
[39:18.080 --> 39:23.440]  interviewed some of the old-school elections officials, and they actually preferred the
[39:23.440 --> 39:29.240]  paper counting, and that they said that, actually, they went home at the same time, because the
[39:29.240 --> 39:34.400]  election officials would count the ballots all day long as they were cast.
[39:34.400 --> 39:39.920]  Obviously, they just weren't allowed to report how things were going.
[39:39.920 --> 39:44.320]  They could only report after the polls were closed, but they were counting all day long
[39:44.320 --> 39:49.280]  as the ballots were being counted, and so when the polls would close at 7 o'clock, they
[39:49.280 --> 39:52.960]  would only have a little bit of catching up to do, and they still would be able to report
[39:52.960 --> 39:54.520]  the results and go home by 9.
[39:54.520 --> 39:59.560]  That's right, and Texas law does allow that, however, in evaluating that and talking at
[39:59.560 --> 40:05.840]  length with, you know, quite a number of county clerks who do that, we're apprehensive about
[40:05.840 --> 40:10.480]  that provision in the Texas code, this allowing of counting the votes.
[40:10.480 --> 40:15.160]  As soon as you get 10 in the ballot box, you're allowed to do that, but here's what they do
[40:15.160 --> 40:18.960]  in practice, and it isn't necessarily spelled out in the code.
[40:18.960 --> 40:23.720]  They typically take the box, and they go into a back room, and they're very proud of that.
[40:23.720 --> 40:29.040]  They go, well, we take the box, and we take it into a room, you know, away from everybody
[40:29.040 --> 40:32.240]  voting, and we go back in there, and we count the ballots.
[40:32.240 --> 40:33.240]  That's not going to work.
[40:33.240 --> 40:38.720]  And if you ask me, it could have been that they wrote that provision, you know, with
[40:38.720 --> 40:43.200]  a wink involved that said, okay, we're going to let you count, and we're not going to say
[40:43.200 --> 40:46.040]  anything about where you can count it, so you just take those in the back room, and
[40:46.040 --> 40:47.040]  you start counting.
[40:47.040 --> 40:50.680]  No, no, no, no, no, no, that's not going to apply.
[40:50.680 --> 40:51.680]  So we are not for that.
[40:51.680 --> 40:55.600]  We want to stress the counting has to start after the polls, but you just have to get
[40:55.600 --> 40:57.120]  enough people out.
[40:57.120 --> 40:59.240]  People are off of work at that point.
[40:59.240 --> 41:02.120]  There's no excuses about not having enough people.
[41:02.120 --> 41:08.200]  We have to make Election Day a national holiday so that we can get people out, you know, to
[41:08.200 --> 41:09.200]  vote.
[41:09.200 --> 41:10.200]  No one's discriminated.
[41:10.200 --> 41:12.000]  And then I'm going to drop a bomb.
[41:12.000 --> 41:20.240]  I say no early voting because you're asking for two weeks of concealed, you know, of the
[41:20.240 --> 41:24.520]  voting process being taken out of the public eye every day.
[41:24.520 --> 41:29.040]  And people go crazy when we say early voting, you know, shouldn't be allowed.
[41:29.040 --> 41:35.360]  But if you think about our continuous flow of uninterrupted public observability of the
[41:35.360 --> 41:38.160]  process, you can't have early voting.
[41:38.160 --> 41:39.520]  Yeah, I agree, Karen.
[41:39.520 --> 41:44.440]  I completely agree and I agree with you that the counting should start after the polls
[41:44.440 --> 41:49.400]  are closed because otherwise, if either one of two things will happen, if the public can
[41:49.400 --> 41:55.040]  view the counting while it's being done, then they'll know how the results are coming out
[41:55.040 --> 41:58.960]  and then everybody will say, well, you better get out and vote because you're, yes, so-and-so
[41:58.960 --> 42:01.680]  is not winning or whatever will happen.
[42:01.680 --> 42:06.320]  And the only other option is to have the counting not done in public, i.e., take the box in
[42:06.320 --> 42:07.320]  the back room.
[42:07.320 --> 42:08.320]  That's not going to fly.
[42:08.320 --> 42:12.520]  And yeah, there's too much trouble with chain of custody and these sorts of things with
[42:12.520 --> 42:17.200]  the early voting because if you have the early voting done in public, too, well, then you
[42:17.200 --> 42:23.840]  run into the same issues as if the counting is done publicly during the election.
[42:23.840 --> 42:24.840]  So yeah, I agree, Karen.
[42:24.840 --> 42:29.080]  Yeah, and then if you don't count during early voting, then you're giving somebody just this
[42:29.080 --> 42:33.800]  blank check and just sort of go, well, have at it, you got two weeks to figure out how
[42:33.800 --> 42:35.680]  to get to the ballot.
[42:35.680 --> 42:38.600]  So it's not the solution.
[42:38.600 --> 42:44.880]  Yeah, plug your thing because you've got a minute left, a minute and a half left.
[42:44.880 --> 42:45.880]  Okay.
[42:45.880 --> 42:50.720]  We have, Vote Rescue's been working sort of at a much lower profile the last year and
[42:50.720 --> 42:53.960]  what we've been doing is we've been going head-to-head with the county clerk here in
[42:53.960 --> 42:55.840]  Travis County.
[42:55.840 --> 42:59.680]  And there's been this election study supposedly done.
[42:59.680 --> 43:02.240]  It was pretty much of a sham of a study.
[43:02.240 --> 43:05.440]  The clerk brought in all of her friends, overloaded the group.
[43:05.440 --> 43:06.440]  There was 45 people.
[43:06.440 --> 43:09.320]  It was just sort of a joke.
[43:09.320 --> 43:16.280]  We, Vote Rescue, and three other members of the group representing the Green Party, the
[43:16.280 --> 43:21.840]  Gray Panthers of Austin, and the LULAC, which is the League of United Latin American Citizens,
[43:21.840 --> 43:29.360]  the District 12 group here in Travis County, all have banded together and we support our
[43:29.360 --> 43:33.560]  alternate report, which we submitted to the county clerk.
[43:33.560 --> 43:38.080]  And that will go before the county commissioners in about the next three to four weeks.
[43:38.080 --> 43:39.760]  And we need people to come out.
[43:39.760 --> 43:44.280]  So I encourage people to go to our website, Vote Rescue, sign up on the mailing list so
[43:44.280 --> 43:50.280]  that you can come represent your group or you as a citizen in Travis County and support
[43:50.280 --> 43:53.600]  our position of hand-counted paper ballots in Travis County.
[43:53.600 --> 44:01.160]  So please, and our website is www.voterescue.org.
[44:01.160 --> 44:04.360]  Special Roast Hemp Coffee from HempUSA.org.
[44:04.360 --> 44:08.800]  Our coffee grows in the dense volcanic rich soil, herbicide and pesticide free, and in
[44:08.800 --> 44:10.840]  the high altitudes of Guatemala.
[44:10.840 --> 44:15.280]  In conditions that are ideal for natural growth of this high quality coffee, try our mellow
[44:15.280 --> 44:20.080]  cup of coffee that is ground and roasted with 25% hemp seed from Canada.
[44:20.080 --> 44:25.440]  With a wonderful nutty flavor that contains 18% protein, our roasters bring a unique flavor
[44:25.440 --> 44:28.800]  that makes this the best cup of coffee you'll ever have.
[44:28.800 --> 44:33.760]  Try our new Special Roast Hemp Coffee from HempUSA.org and wake up your brain without
[44:33.760 --> 44:34.880]  the jitters.
[44:34.880 --> 44:37.840]  Our customers look forward to their next cup of hemp coffee.
[44:37.840 --> 44:49.080]  Visit us at HempUSA.org or call 908-691-2608, that's 908-691-2608 and see if you'll change
[44:49.080 --> 44:51.440]  your mind about drinking coffee again.
[44:51.440 --> 45:09.840]  Taste the Difference, Feel the Difference at HempUSA.org today.
[45:09.840 --> 45:37.440]  Alright, watching the sparks fly or watching the votes fly as it were, watching the votes
[45:37.440 --> 45:42.280]  fly right out the window, watching our elections fly right out the window with these electronic
[45:42.280 --> 45:47.800]  counting machines and verification systems and all that kind of stuff, early voting,
[45:47.800 --> 45:51.520]  the whole thing needs to be thrown in the trash.
[45:51.520 --> 45:55.360]  That's the way I see it, that's the way Karen from VoteRescue.org sees it.
[45:55.360 --> 46:00.840]  Please go to her website VoteRescue.org, sign up for the mailing list and find out how you
[46:00.840 --> 46:01.840]  can participate.
[46:01.840 --> 46:09.880]  Alright, so in the meantime, this coming Saturday, Randy has one of his mortgage fraud seminars
[46:09.880 --> 46:18.200]  starting at 1 p.m. at the Wyndham Conference Center and Hotel that's at Woodward, not Woodland,
[46:18.200 --> 46:24.920]  but Woodward at I-35, it's the exit between Ben White and Old Torf Street, if you're heading
[46:24.920 --> 46:28.840]  south on I-35, it's right after Old Torf.
[46:28.840 --> 46:32.320]  And Randy, why don't you tell us a little bit about the seminar and what you've been
[46:32.320 --> 46:33.320]  up to lately.
[46:33.320 --> 46:38.400]  Okay, the seminar is going to start at 1, it's going to go till 9, that's when we have the
[46:38.400 --> 46:40.840]  venue for.
[46:40.840 --> 46:48.840]  It will take about two, maybe three hours to do the primary presentation.
[46:48.840 --> 46:55.880]  And if you're not PO'd at your lender and if you don't feel like you've been robbed
[46:55.880 --> 47:03.560]  and ripped off totally, you're in a coma, especially when I get done with this presentation,
[47:03.560 --> 47:15.080]  I will demonstrate why it is in the best interest of the lender to create a loan document that
[47:15.080 --> 47:20.840]  is absolutely intended to default.
[47:20.840 --> 47:28.760]  And I will demonstrate how the lender profits at every step of the procedure.
[47:28.760 --> 47:37.100]  This argument is primarily, has been developed to present to a jury.
[47:37.100 --> 47:46.320]  And what I'll present in the seminar will be the exact same argument that would, if
[47:46.320 --> 47:55.040]  this one of my cases ever gets to court, would be presented to a jury and I assure you, when
[47:55.040 --> 48:00.120]  the jury hears what we have to tell them about what the lenders have done, they are going
[48:00.120 --> 48:05.160]  to be really unhappy campers.
[48:05.160 --> 48:13.640]  Because if you think there's fraud floating around in the foreclosure and the real estate
[48:13.640 --> 48:19.920]  industry, I'm going to assure you, you have no idea.
[48:19.920 --> 48:29.700]  Primarily most of us think that if a lender creates a loan and puts up his capital to
[48:29.700 --> 48:40.240]  purchase the title from the seller, then trades the title to the buyer for a promissory note
[48:40.240 --> 48:46.880]  with no present value but only with future value.
[48:46.880 --> 48:53.960]  And he has to wait into the future to receive his money and therefore he's concerned about
[48:53.960 --> 48:58.120]  whether or not you're able to pay the note.
[48:58.120 --> 49:04.280]  It's just not that way at all.
[49:04.280 --> 49:10.360]  Through our experience dealing with banks and loans, we think we know how things work,
[49:10.360 --> 49:19.520]  but I'll assure you, late 80s, early 90s, everything changed.
[49:19.520 --> 49:26.080]  There were a couple of dynamics that changed that completely flipped the mortgage industry
[49:26.080 --> 49:35.600]  on its head and absolutely guaranteed the disaster we're now experiencing.
[49:35.600 --> 49:42.160]  We can expect over the next year and a half to two years nationwide that at least half
[49:42.160 --> 49:48.560]  of all mortgages will default.
[49:48.560 --> 49:59.560]  And the one thing we'll demonstrate at the presentation is that the foreclosure process,
[49:59.560 --> 50:07.040]  whatever the lender receives in consideration in the foreclosure process, and he'll generally
[50:07.040 --> 50:17.040]  get about $50,000 to $75,000 for doing the foreclosure, that's chump change.
[50:17.040 --> 50:18.920]  The lender doesn't care about your property.
[50:18.920 --> 50:26.280]  He doesn't care about purchasing the property and selling it and getting some recovery on
[50:26.280 --> 50:27.280]  his funds.
[50:27.280 --> 50:30.920]  He could care less, that's chump change.
[50:30.920 --> 50:36.640]  We will demonstrate how the lender will receive 8 to 10 times the amount of your principal
[50:36.640 --> 50:39.840]  if you foreclose.
[50:39.840 --> 50:47.240]  So he absolutely needs for you to foreclose.
[50:47.240 --> 50:53.120]  I think you'll enjoy the seminar of struggle to make it entertaining and interesting and
[50:53.120 --> 50:56.160]  understandable.
[50:56.160 --> 51:05.360]  Although the foreclosure, the real estate industry and the lending industry tries to
[51:05.360 --> 51:09.880]  make this look very complex, it's not.
[51:09.880 --> 51:15.600]  Once you get it all sorted out, it's really simple what's going on.
[51:15.600 --> 51:20.160]  It is basic unadulterated fraud.
[51:20.160 --> 51:26.800]  There's a lot of talk about the right to rescind the note.
[51:26.800 --> 51:30.520]  Well, we don't care about rescindion.
[51:30.520 --> 51:38.040]  If you rescind the note and it's in the Regulatory Procedures Act, then they have to give you
[51:38.040 --> 51:45.800]  back every penny you've paid them, principal and interest, not the mortgage insurance and
[51:45.800 --> 51:50.880]  those fees paid to the vendors for doing their jobs, you don't get that back, and taxes you
[51:50.880 --> 51:54.560]  don't get back because they'd have to be paid no matter what.
[51:54.560 --> 51:57.520]  But principal and interest to the lender, you'd get it all back.
[51:57.520 --> 52:00.720]  The problem is you have to give the property back.
[52:00.720 --> 52:04.360]  We're not terribly interested in rescindion.
[52:04.360 --> 52:12.520]  What we're interested in, keeping the property and making the note go away, making the lender
[52:12.520 --> 52:16.680]  go away and everybody leave us alone.
[52:16.680 --> 52:19.000]  And we think we have a program that can do that.
[52:19.000 --> 52:28.440]  Right now we have 12 no answer defaults before the court.
[52:28.440 --> 52:36.520]  No answer defaults are so rare that the clerks of the court don't know what to do with them.
[52:36.520 --> 52:43.760]  And it is the clerk of the court that is required to sign off on the no answer default.
[52:43.760 --> 52:49.080]  But they happen so seldom that the clerks have no idea what to do.
[52:49.080 --> 52:54.120]  And 75% of all no answer defaults get overturned.
[52:54.120 --> 53:03.320]  The reason 75% get overturned is because essentially the only reason that a defendant would fail
[53:03.320 --> 53:09.680]  to answer was that they never received service in the first place.
[53:09.680 --> 53:12.800]  And that is the primary defense against a no answer default.
[53:12.800 --> 53:16.800]  Well, I didn't know anything about it.
[53:16.800 --> 53:20.920]  And that's generally the only time they don't answer.
[53:20.920 --> 53:28.880]  However, we make absolutely sure that they get served and they get served properly.
[53:28.880 --> 53:36.480]  We've done a number of cases in Colorado and in Colorado anyone can serve the regional
[53:36.480 --> 53:46.880]  petition as long as they're over 18 and not related to any of the plaintiffs by at least
[53:46.880 --> 53:52.440]  three degrees of co-sanguinity and third cousins.
[53:52.440 --> 53:53.440]  Otherwise anybody can do it.
[53:53.440 --> 53:57.000]  And we're telling our people do not do that.
[53:57.000 --> 54:06.000]  Hire a professional process server and have this served because that's their only argument.
[54:06.000 --> 54:08.560]  So we've got a dozen of them.
[54:08.560 --> 54:13.840]  We've got one in Port Aransas, Texas, $460,000 note.
[54:13.840 --> 54:15.920]  She had three different loans on the property.
[54:15.920 --> 54:21.520]  We made a claim against the lender of $14 million.
[54:21.520 --> 54:25.920]  And they didn't answer.
[54:25.920 --> 54:30.120]  Reason they didn't answer is they couldn't.
[54:30.120 --> 54:37.640]  They only had 21 days and we gave them a suit that I've been working on for almost a year.
[54:37.640 --> 54:41.640]  I got lots of stuff in there.
[54:41.640 --> 54:49.520]  And generally you serve this suit and somebody takes it to some clerk or secretary who's
[54:49.520 --> 54:51.440]  there to receive service.
[54:51.440 --> 54:54.840]  And then they take the suit and they try to figure out who it goes to and they send it
[54:54.840 --> 54:55.840]  to some other department.
[54:55.840 --> 54:56.840]  They send it to another department.
[54:56.840 --> 55:03.400]  And about a week later or so the attorney who's supposed to answer it gets it.
[55:03.400 --> 55:10.000]  And then he looks at the depth of the suit and there is absolutely no way he can answer
[55:10.000 --> 55:15.960]  this suit in the two weeks he's got left.
[55:15.960 --> 55:25.300]  And the only answers we have received are generally one-liners.
[55:25.300 --> 55:30.000]  We deny all allegations by plaintiff.
[55:30.000 --> 55:39.720]  Now you're allowed to do a general denial but if I make an allegation with specificity
[55:39.720 --> 55:47.960]  you must answer that allegation with particularity under oath.
[55:47.960 --> 55:49.120]  They're not doing that.
[55:49.120 --> 55:54.100]  They're just doing the general answer because they don't have time to prepare answers.
[55:54.100 --> 56:03.360]  So what these get, motion to dismiss answer as non-responsive, then motion for summary
[56:03.360 --> 56:04.360]  judgment.
[56:04.360 --> 56:06.520]  We haven't actually had to do that yet.
[56:06.520 --> 56:12.200]  We've got some of these bogus answers and we're filing the motions to dismiss.
[56:12.200 --> 56:18.040]  We haven't got to those but we do have on one of the no answer defaults, one of the
[56:18.040 --> 56:26.200]  twelve, is this was a guy who had been foreclosed on, he was out of country, his children were
[56:26.200 --> 56:36.280]  living in the house, they had been evicted, the lender sold the property.
[56:36.280 --> 56:39.800]  He sued, lender didn't answer.
[56:39.800 --> 56:50.040]  He sued, he filed inability to pay so it didn't cost him anything and he sued after the fact.
[56:50.040 --> 56:51.640]  They didn't answer.
[56:51.640 --> 56:53.960]  He filed for no answer default.
[56:53.960 --> 56:57.740]  The court jumped around and did a little song and dance.
[56:57.740 --> 56:59.800]  He stayed after them.
[56:59.800 --> 57:07.960]  Day before yesterday they signed the no answer default, signed the judgment against them.
[57:07.960 --> 57:13.920]  And doing my research on no answer default, the first major document on the subject I
[57:13.920 --> 57:22.880]  came up with, it said no answer default, the position you do not want to be in because
[57:22.880 --> 57:30.860]  if I make allegations before the court and I serve you properly, you have 21 days to
[57:30.860 --> 57:32.380]  answer those allegations.
[57:32.380 --> 57:41.040]  If you do not, you waive any right to answer and stipulate to every claim I make.
[57:41.040 --> 57:48.680]  This one in Port Aransas, they essentially stipulated to a 14 million dollar judgment
[57:48.680 --> 57:52.320]  against them.
[57:52.320 --> 57:56.820]  If we get that one signed, we party.
[57:56.820 --> 58:06.720]  The one in Washington that we got signed, it was only for a couple of million on like
[58:06.720 --> 58:12.880]  a $200,000 house, but even so that would be a nice turn out.
[58:12.880 --> 58:17.200]  Now Randy, does that mean that they get paid by the bank 14 million dollars?
[58:17.200 --> 58:20.640]  That means they get a judgment against the bank.
[58:20.640 --> 58:24.920]  Collecting is a whole other deal but they get clear title.
[58:24.920 --> 58:27.360]  They get the house free and clear without having to pay anymore.
[58:27.360 --> 58:29.920]  Yeah, and I'll explain how that works when we get back.
[58:29.920 --> 58:34.600]  I'll explain a prove up hearing.
[58:34.600 --> 58:37.720]  But they don't necessarily, trying to get the 14 million out of the bank is a different
[58:37.720 --> 58:38.720]  story.
[58:38.720 --> 58:39.720]  Why can't they lean the bank?
[58:39.720 --> 58:43.920]  We can, but there's a little more to getting that claim and I'll explain that when we come
[58:43.920 --> 58:44.920]  back on the other side.
[58:44.920 --> 58:45.920]  All right, very good.
[58:45.920 --> 58:50.800]  Callers, if you want to call in, 512-646-1984.
[58:50.800 --> 58:54.120]  We'll be back in just a few minutes after the top of the hour news.
[58:54.120 --> 58:58.040]  Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig and Debra Stevens on Rule of Law Radio.
[59:24.120 --> 59:51.640]  We'll be back in just a few minutes after the top of the hour news.
[59:51.640 --> 01:00:09.880]  The UK Telegraph says British taxpayers are paying a U.S. lobbying firm $10,000 a month
[01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:16.200]  to push U.S. politicians to award contracts to British defense companies and improve trans-Atlantic
[01:00:16.200 --> 01:00:17.200]  relations.
[01:00:17.200 --> 01:00:23.800]  O'Brien and Associates has received more than $500,000 of UK taxpayers' money over the past
[01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:24.800]  four years.
[01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:30.720]  The price of food in Pakistan has quadrupled in the wake of the worst flooding in 80 years.
[01:00:30.720 --> 01:00:36.800]  The UN estimates 1.4 million acres of crops were destroyed in Punjab, the country's bread
[01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:37.960]  basket.
[01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:41.880]  Crops were also ravaged in the Northwest, where residents were still recovering from
[01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:45.760]  the devastation of war between the government and the Taliban.
[01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:50.080]  4 million Pakistanis are in need of food assistance.
[01:00:50.080 --> 01:00:56.160]  Iraq Obama signed a $26 billion state aid package Tuesday that included a $12 billion
[01:00:56.160 --> 01:00:58.000]  cut in food stamps.
[01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:04.000]  The House, which was in summer recess, convened in emergency session to pass the measure.
[01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:09.600]  Democrats agreed to the massive cuts in food aid as a trade-off to retain 300,000 state
[01:01:09.600 --> 01:01:12.160]  jobs.
[01:01:12.160 --> 01:01:17.240]  Atlantic magazine's September cover story says Israel may attack Iranian nuclear sites
[01:01:17.240 --> 01:01:18.800]  within a year.
[01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:24.440]  Writer Jeffrey Goldberg concluded the likelihood of an Israeli strike is over 50 percent and
[01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:28.960]  Israel might not even ask for the green light from the U.S. or might even give a couple
[01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:34.200]  of false pre-attack alerts so that Washington won't try to stop the operation.
[01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:39.880]  Goldberg writes, one day next spring, the Israeli National Security Advisor Uzi Arad
[01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:44.280]  and Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak will telephone their counterparts at the White
[01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:49.920]  House and the Pentagon to inform them Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has just ordered
[01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:55.880]  roughly 100 aircraft of the Israeli Air Force to fly east toward Iran.
[01:01:55.880 --> 01:02:00.400]  Goldberg says the results might be dire as Hezbollah will probably retaliate against
[01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:02.320]  Israel in the north.
[01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:09.520]  Goldberg speculates Israel's unilateral operation might well unleash full-scale regional war.
[01:02:09.520 --> 01:02:15.000]  The outgoing commander of U.S. forces in Iraq said Tuesday Iraqi security forces will continue
[01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:20.920]  to rely heavily on American funding as the U.S. troop drawdown accelerates, forcing the
[01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:24.320]  Iraqis to take on more responsibility.
[01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:30.240]  General Ray Odierno has been urging U.S. lawmakers to reconsider plans to substantially cut the
[01:02:30.240 --> 01:02:35.040]  amounts the military and State Department have requested for Iraq initiatives next year.
[01:02:35.040 --> 01:02:40.360]  The U.S. has spent roughly $18 billion building up Iraqi security forces.
[01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:46.280]  In the budget for 2011, the Pentagon requested $2 billion for initiatives to further equip
[01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:48.560]  and bolster the Iraqi military.
[01:02:48.560 --> 01:03:10.280]  For more details on these stories, visit www.inmworldrecord.net.
[01:03:18.560 --> 01:03:46.480]  Okay, folks, we're back with Randy Kelton, Eddie Craig, and I'm Deborah Stevens.
[01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:54.120]  If you have questions for Randy or Eddie or myself, you can call in 512-646-1984.
[01:03:54.120 --> 01:03:58.400]  And Randy, when we left off, we were talking about these multimillion-dollar judgments
[01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:01.360]  that some of your clients have gotten against the bank.
[01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:03.320]  They've got their title free and clear.
[01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:08.800]  However, collecting from the bank or putting a lien on the bank is a different story.
[01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:12.420]  And so we're going to get into that and why in the heck aren't the banks answering or
[01:04:12.420 --> 01:04:15.680]  at least petitioning for more time to answer.
[01:04:15.680 --> 01:04:18.160]  And that last one is a really good question.
[01:04:18.160 --> 01:04:24.320]  Now, we don't have any judgments against the banks yet.
[01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:32.140]  We've got the first judge to rule on the no-answer default, and he granted the no-answer default.
[01:04:32.140 --> 01:04:39.800]  We don't have any of them denied yet, but the judges really hate to do that.
[01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:44.080]  And in effect, that's appropriate.
[01:04:44.080 --> 01:04:50.560]  They want to know for certain that you're not coming to me asking me to render a judgment
[01:04:50.560 --> 01:04:55.400]  against these people when they haven't been properly noticed and given an opportunity
[01:04:55.400 --> 01:04:58.440]  to enter an answer.
[01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:10.400]  And this first judge, he raised objections to the service, and the litigant proved up
[01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:14.600]  the service because this was one guy who listened.
[01:05:14.600 --> 01:05:19.040]  He hired a professional process server, and they did their job right, and they provided
[01:05:19.040 --> 01:05:21.760]  the testimony to the judge.
[01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:28.280]  It created the prima facie evidence that the service was proper, and he rendered the ruling.
[01:05:28.280 --> 01:05:30.960]  We've got 11 more.
[01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:33.560]  He's rendered the ruling.
[01:05:33.560 --> 01:05:43.600]  Now that the ruling is rendered for no-answer default, the plaintiff, the defendant, has
[01:05:43.600 --> 01:05:52.480]  an opportunity to appeal the judge's ruling, and their argument must be improper service
[01:05:52.480 --> 01:05:55.520]  or mistake or accident.
[01:05:55.520 --> 01:05:59.900]  And mistake or accident can't be just carelessness.
[01:05:59.900 --> 01:06:14.000]  It has to be a bona fide mistake, like a answer was sent to the wrong address, or the cause
[01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:20.720]  number was somehow juxtaposed, and they actually filed the answer in another case instead of
[01:06:20.720 --> 01:06:21.720]  this one.
[01:06:21.720 --> 01:06:25.560]  And they would have to be able to go to that case and show they did it.
[01:06:25.560 --> 01:06:29.420]  They can't just say, oops, we goofed and screwed up here.
[01:06:29.420 --> 01:06:31.660]  It has to be bona fide.
[01:06:31.660 --> 01:06:38.160]  So since we're being real careful with service, we're not giving them that shot, and frankly,
[01:06:38.160 --> 01:06:41.240]  this was a total surprise.
[01:06:41.240 --> 01:06:47.240]  The last thing we expected is these guys to not even bother to answer, because frankly,
[01:06:47.240 --> 01:06:53.180]  when that comes to the court, the judge is going to say, oh, so you don't think I'm important
[01:06:53.180 --> 01:06:58.140]  enough to even bother to answer one of the suits in my court, huh?
[01:06:58.140 --> 01:07:02.040]  They tend to get excited about that.
[01:07:02.040 --> 01:07:09.320]  And the judges don't want to render the no answer default, because they're concerned
[01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:13.820]  that it avoids a just hearing.
[01:07:13.820 --> 01:07:18.600]  But once you prove it up, and if you stay after them, you get it, and then what has
[01:07:18.600 --> 01:07:23.040]  to happen is a prove-up hearing.
[01:07:23.040 --> 01:07:31.600]  At the prove-up hearing, you get, as a matter of default, those amounts that are fixed.
[01:07:31.600 --> 01:07:44.800]  For instance, we make a claim that the lender at closing, when he presented the HUD-1 settlement
[01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:51.400]  statement that had all these fees on it, that he was required to provide documentation to
[01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:58.880]  show that, one, those fees were authorized by law, and, two, that the services provided
[01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:08.700]  by the vendor were necessary, as the lender can only charge to the borrower those fees
[01:08:08.700 --> 01:08:15.000]  the borrower would have to pay if he purchased a house in cash.
[01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.760]  Title search, title insurance, these sorts of things, appraisal.
[01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:25.040]  And those fees the lender must pay to a third-party vendor.
[01:08:25.040 --> 01:08:33.000]  So, at closing, he's required to provide documentation to show that the fees charged were necessary
[01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:37.040]  and the amounts charged for the fees were reasonable.
[01:08:37.040 --> 01:08:47.080]  And we maintain, in the suit, that these fees were not necessary or reasonable, and we believe
[01:08:47.080 --> 01:08:51.480]  that the lender took an undisclosed markup.
[01:08:51.480 --> 01:08:54.280]  So we demand he prove them up.
[01:08:54.280 --> 01:09:01.480]  If he fails to do so, we maintain every fee that he charged is bogus, they're all garbage.
[01:09:01.480 --> 01:09:08.280]  And we claim the amount of the fee as a claim against the lender.
[01:09:08.280 --> 01:09:14.120]  Now, that's a specific amount, and it's not subject to interpretation.
[01:09:14.120 --> 01:09:18.480]  The lender did not answer, so he stipulated.
[01:09:18.480 --> 01:09:21.520]  Those amounts don't have to be adjudicated.
[01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:25.680]  Those amounts go to the summary judgment.
[01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:30.240]  Then we claimed fees against the lender for violation of the Real Estate Settlement Procedures
[01:09:30.240 --> 01:09:39.720]  Act, and the legislature authorized a, not a fee, a penalty, a penalty as opposed to
[01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:41.480]  a fine or a fee.
[01:09:41.480 --> 01:09:46.160]  A fine or a fee would go to the agency, a penalty goes to the aggrieved individual.
[01:09:46.160 --> 01:09:53.440]  We claim a fee of $2,000 because the legislature authorized the courts to assess a penalty
[01:09:53.440 --> 01:09:57.440]  of no less than $200, no more than $2,000, and since we presuppose that the lender's
[01:09:57.440 --> 01:10:03.160]  a dirty rotten scoundrel, the courts go throw the book at him, we ask for two grand apiece.
[01:10:03.160 --> 01:10:06.160]  That's a specific amount.
[01:10:06.160 --> 01:10:15.660]  And the lender made no objection, therefore waived any right to object to that amount.
[01:10:15.660 --> 01:10:19.520]  So those would not have to be adjudicated.
[01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:27.080]  Then we took each of those fees and maintained that since the courts have ruled that the
[01:10:27.080 --> 01:10:36.280]  fee accrues at closing, that that fee should have been subtracted from the principal.
[01:10:36.280 --> 01:10:45.280]  And if you subtract the fee from the principal and then amortize the note based on the payment
[01:10:45.280 --> 01:10:51.360]  claim by the lender, when the fees subtracted from the principal should have lowered the
[01:10:51.360 --> 01:10:56.840]  payment, that will leave you with an overpayment each month.
[01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:02.640]  Then we run the note for 30 years and see how much difference we find.
[01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:10.000]  Well, whatever we find in difference, that's the amount the lender intended to defraud
[01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:15.440]  the borrower of over the course of the note, and in fraud you don't sue for the amount
[01:11:15.440 --> 01:11:19.880]  you were actually defrauded of, you sue for the amount you would have been defrauded of
[01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:21.960]  had the perpetrator's plan ran to fruition.
[01:11:21.960 --> 01:11:28.380]  But actually you don't sue for that either, you sue for triple.
[01:11:28.380 --> 01:11:35.600]  And those are the ones that would have to be proved up before the court.
[01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:40.400]  And the other side could come in and complain that, oh, the court's going to charge us
[01:11:40.400 --> 01:11:44.360]  2000 a piece, they only charge 200.
[01:11:44.360 --> 01:11:50.000]  And then the court has discretion to make a determination.
[01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:54.280]  So that's what would have to be proved up at the prove up hearing.
[01:11:54.280 --> 01:12:00.520]  And once the court makes a determination, then we move for a judgment against the lender.
[01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:05.080]  If we get the judgment from the court, then we can move for execution of the judgment.
[01:12:05.080 --> 01:12:09.560]  And that's when we go in and pull all the furniture out of their offices until they
[01:12:09.560 --> 01:12:12.360]  write us a check.
[01:12:12.360 --> 01:12:19.400]  We just started this in actually in December, November, December of this year.
[01:12:19.400 --> 01:12:26.440]  So none of them have had time to run the course, but we have filed a bunch and everybody's
[01:12:26.440 --> 01:12:28.600]  still in the house so far.
[01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:34.640]  And that's primarily what we offer is that we can buy you time.
[01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:42.000]  There's a lot of supposed remedies out there, but so far the only one we can find that works
[01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:44.320]  is not some magic pill.
[01:12:44.320 --> 01:12:47.800]  It's really simple.
[01:12:47.800 --> 01:12:49.800]  Sue them.
[01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:56.840]  The only thing that gets the lender's attention is suing him because you invoke the very statutory
[01:12:56.840 --> 01:13:01.240]  courts that a lot of these guys in legal reform want to avoid.
[01:13:01.240 --> 01:13:04.840]  Well, sometimes they can work in your favor.
[01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:11.880]  And in this instance, it can work in your favor because what we really need here for
[01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:18.840]  almost all of our other people to come to us is time in this particular case.
[01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:25.000]  The fact that civil litigation is always so time consuming.
[01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:29.960]  Anybody that you've ever talked to that has been in a civil action will tell you the most
[01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:35.040]  annoying thing about it is that it takes forever.
[01:13:35.040 --> 01:13:40.880]  In this case, forever works in our favor.
[01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:48.120]  To sue the lender, he is stopped or not exactly legally stopped unless you can get the federal
[01:13:48.120 --> 01:13:54.480]  judge to issue a preliminary injunction to stop the lender.
[01:13:54.480 --> 01:13:59.640]  They're real reluctant to do that and we're beginning to get a few rulings in our favor
[01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:06.160]  because we have to have every particular in order.
[01:14:06.160 --> 01:14:11.400]  If they can find any reason to squeeze around it, they will and we're getting all kinds
[01:14:11.400 --> 01:14:16.480]  of different objections from the judges and every time we get one, we program the response
[01:14:16.480 --> 01:14:18.400]  into the computer.
[01:14:18.400 --> 01:14:23.520]  We program in the documents that the court is asking for so that all of the rest of the
[01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:30.680]  suits will have those already and it's getting harder for them to wiggle out from under.
[01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:34.200]  So we're beginning to get more positive rulings.
[01:14:34.200 --> 01:14:42.200]  Otherwise, if you sue the lender, they're not necessarily statutorily stopped from pursuing
[01:14:42.200 --> 01:14:43.800]  foreclosure.
[01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:50.320]  However, if they do and they force you out of the property, the property is going to
[01:14:50.320 --> 01:14:57.800]  sit empty until the litigation is completed and the lender is going to be responsible
[01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:00.960]  for it because he forced it to be empty.
[01:15:00.960 --> 01:15:06.440]  Problem, you can't insure an empty property.
[01:15:06.440 --> 01:15:12.920]  So for the most part, once we sue the lender stops because he doesn't want the person
[01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:19.920]  out of the property and so we've had really good luck with that so far and that's primarily
[01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:24.360]  what we provide is delay.
[01:15:24.360 --> 01:15:29.920]  The no answer defaults, window dressing.
[01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:35.080]  If we actually win the lawsuit, window dressing.
[01:15:35.080 --> 01:15:39.000]  But primarily what we offer is the delay and we're getting the delay.
[01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:45.960]  The amount we charge, if you have a $200,000 home, the amount we charge is on the order
[01:15:45.960 --> 01:15:54.600]  of one month's payment and we'll stop the lender a year to year and a half, just him
[01:15:54.600 --> 01:15:58.240]  dancing in the court with you.
[01:15:58.240 --> 01:16:06.320]  So we've put together a program that's based on the law that's in, not just the law that's
[01:16:06.320 --> 01:16:11.880]  in front of you, but the reality that's in front of you.
[01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:17.160]  We don't just deal with the stipulation of what the law says, we pay close attention
[01:16:17.160 --> 01:16:23.360]  to how the law is adjudicated and how things actually work and we've put together a program
[01:16:23.360 --> 01:16:34.000]  that really does work, really so far and primarily what we offer is delay and we're getting people
[01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:35.000]  that delay.
[01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:40.960]  We're getting them time to stop paying their payments, save up some money and good chance
[01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:44.720]  we're going to start winning a lot of these.
[01:16:44.720 --> 01:16:51.920]  Okay this is Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Eddie Craig, Rule of Law Radio.
[01:16:51.920 --> 01:17:03.200]  We will be back on the other side and I'll continue a little of this discussion.
[01:17:03.200 --> 01:17:08.240]  Capital Coin and Bullion is your local source for rare coins, precious metals and coin supplies
[01:17:08.240 --> 01:17:10.240]  in the Austin metro area.
[01:17:10.240 --> 01:17:12.280]  We also ship worldwide.
[01:17:12.280 --> 01:17:16.320]  We are a family owned and operated business that offers competitive prices on your coin
[01:17:16.320 --> 01:17:17.320]  and metals purchases.
[01:17:17.320 --> 01:17:23.000]  We buy, sell, trade and consign rare coins, gold and silver coin collections, precious
[01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:24.880]  metals and scrap gold.
[01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:28.480]  We will purchase and sell gold and jewelry items as well.
[01:17:28.480 --> 01:17:31.080]  We offer daily specials on coins and bullion.
[01:17:31.080 --> 01:17:37.040]  We're located at 5448 Barnett Road, Suite 3 and we're open Monday through Friday 10
[01:17:37.040 --> 01:17:41.040]  a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturdays 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.
[01:17:41.040 --> 01:17:48.440]  You are welcome to stop in our shop during regular business hours or call 512-646-6440
[01:17:48.440 --> 01:17:49.440]  with any questions.
[01:17:49.440 --> 01:17:55.000]  Ask for Chad and say you heard about us on Rule of Law Radio or 90.1 FM, that's Capital
[01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:58.000]  Coin and Bullion, 512-646-6440.
[01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:20.000]  All right folks, we are back.
[01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:22.760]  We had Greg and Ruth on the line.
[01:18:22.760 --> 01:18:26.140]  I'm sorry you guys dropped off the line.
[01:18:26.140 --> 01:18:28.160]  If you would please call back, we'll take your call.
[01:18:28.160 --> 01:18:32.440]  Randy was right in the middle of his presentation so please call back in.
[01:18:32.440 --> 01:18:39.480]  And folks, I do want to make a gentle request requirement here.
[01:18:39.480 --> 01:18:44.040]  There is a disclaimer concerning the call-in number on the website that you folks may want
[01:18:44.040 --> 01:18:45.040]  to read.
[01:18:45.040 --> 01:18:51.160]  Mainly, please don't try to talk to me off the air when I'm screening calls.
[01:18:51.160 --> 01:18:54.040]  This is basically like a one-man operation here.
[01:18:54.040 --> 01:18:58.880]  I reluctantly have to screen the calls which is extremely difficult to do while I'm on
[01:18:58.880 --> 01:18:59.880]  the air.
[01:18:59.880 --> 01:19:05.320]  I need to make the call screening as brief as possible and I mean a matter of only a
[01:19:05.320 --> 01:19:10.200]  very few seconds so that I can get back on the air and pay attention to what's going
[01:19:10.200 --> 01:19:11.200]  on.
[01:19:11.200 --> 01:19:15.160]  Sometimes Randy and Eddie call out for me on the air and I'm not there because I'm screening
[01:19:15.160 --> 01:19:16.160]  calls.
[01:19:16.160 --> 01:19:20.860]  So I really would appreciate a little bit of respect and some help here and please do
[01:19:20.860 --> 01:19:24.640]  not try to talk to me off the air when I'm screening calls.
[01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:29.040]  If folks, in general, I don't talk to people off the air anyway.
[01:19:29.040 --> 01:19:31.800]  I'm a very private person in general.
[01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:36.540]  I go on stage and I give my heart, I give my time, I give my whole life for this radio
[01:19:36.540 --> 01:19:41.120]  network and for what we do and for the purpose of Liberty.
[01:19:41.120 --> 01:19:45.140]  But when I'm off the air, I'm off the air so please respect that.
[01:19:45.140 --> 01:19:48.920]  Don't try to talk to me off the air especially not screening calls because I have to get
[01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:50.640]  back on the air.
[01:19:50.640 --> 01:19:53.320]  So you're welcome to call in and speak with us on the air.
[01:19:53.320 --> 01:19:57.920]  We'd love to have you call in but please don't hassle me when I'm screening the calls.
[01:19:57.920 --> 01:20:01.440]  All right, Greg and Ruth, you're welcome to call back in.
[01:20:01.440 --> 01:20:03.640]  All right, Randy, please continue.
[01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:10.160]  Okay, we were talking about the surprises that we're getting with the court and these
[01:20:10.160 --> 01:20:14.080]  no answer defaults frankly were a complete surprise.
[01:20:14.080 --> 01:20:24.160]  The last thing I expected the lender to do was risk the ramifications of not answering
[01:20:24.160 --> 01:20:26.360]  the suits.
[01:20:26.360 --> 01:20:34.240]  But it appears as though the lenders are in such a frenzy to get as many properties foreclosed
[01:20:34.240 --> 01:20:43.640]  on as possible that the few that object and generally 95% of the foreclosures go without
[01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:52.520]  objection from the borrower that they're not accustomed to having to fight these things.
[01:20:52.520 --> 01:20:54.240]  So we have some callers calling back in.
[01:20:54.240 --> 01:21:00.480]  We're going to go ahead and go to the callers.
[01:21:00.480 --> 01:21:04.040]  We have Greg had called in first.
[01:21:04.040 --> 01:21:05.040]  Okay.
[01:21:05.040 --> 01:21:07.160]  Okay, Greg, thank you for calling in.
[01:21:07.160 --> 01:21:09.480]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:21:09.480 --> 01:21:13.080]  And Greg, can you please turn the radio off in the background?
[01:21:13.080 --> 01:21:15.360]  Yeah, I know, and I shouldn't have asked.
[01:21:15.360 --> 01:21:18.480]  What I was trying to do was try and volunteer to be a screener for you.
[01:21:18.480 --> 01:21:19.480]  Okay, that's wonderful.
[01:21:19.480 --> 01:21:20.480]  Thank you, Greg.
[01:21:20.480 --> 01:21:21.640]  I appreciate that.
[01:21:21.640 --> 01:21:30.280]  And what I wanted to ask you guys about, which is once again insignificant, and I've talked
[01:21:30.280 --> 01:21:31.280]  to you guys before.
[01:21:31.280 --> 01:21:39.920]  Anyway, I play guitar in downtown Austin, and I got a ticket this time on the last Thursday
[01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:46.440]  for sitting though, sitting down, and so as soon as the cops on the bikes roll up on me,
[01:21:46.440 --> 01:21:50.320]  they come up on me and I'm like, okay, what's up, you know, and I'm like, because they're
[01:21:50.320 --> 01:22:00.400]  usually like 20 feet away from me all the time anyway, okay, and so I stand up off my
[01:22:00.400 --> 01:22:05.520]  crate and I'm trying to get my wallet, they're like, have a seat, sir, and I said, look,
[01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:07.720]  you want to see my ID, don't you?
[01:22:07.720 --> 01:22:08.720]  Yeah.
[01:22:08.720 --> 01:22:09.960]  Have a seat, have a seat.
[01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:16.080]  So anyway, I got a ticket for sitting down, and then they're, at the end of the thing,
[01:22:16.080 --> 01:22:19.920]  then they told me, oh, and you can't have your guitar case open and collect money like
[01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:27.080]  that in Austin, playing guitar, and at the end of it, and you guys may appreciate this,
[01:22:27.080 --> 01:22:29.800]  I said, okay, I said, I know what this is all about.
[01:22:29.800 --> 01:22:31.360]  They said, oh, yeah, what's that?
[01:22:31.360 --> 01:22:34.920]  I said, generating revenue.
[01:22:34.920 --> 01:22:40.600]  So anyway, what would your advice be, because I'm not going to give them community service
[01:22:40.600 --> 01:22:44.000]  or any money for a community court ticket.
[01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:48.960]  Well, the first thing is they would have had to charge you under a city ordinance, and
[01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:54.800]  city ordinances don't apply to anybody but the city employees.
[01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:59.840]  That's pursuant Article 3, Section 29, Texas Constitution, which makes it very clear that
[01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:05.960]  a law is only a law passed by the Texas legislature, and that it must contain an enacting clause
[01:23:05.960 --> 01:23:08.520]  stating as such.
[01:23:08.520 --> 01:23:12.880]  An ordinance does not have that, because the legislature did not pass it.
[01:23:12.880 --> 01:23:17.480]  That's right, and I want to just go ahead, I'll just take the guitar in, we'll sit down
[01:23:17.480 --> 01:23:21.200]  with the prosecutor, and hopefully get in the judges' chambers, and I'm going to show
[01:23:21.200 --> 01:23:26.640]  them just what a threat to this community I really am, you know?
[01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:31.080]  And then I want to go to the city council about, okay, look, I understand it's the drag
[01:23:31.080 --> 01:23:36.400]  rat, it's all the homeless, you know, the people want to camp out with puppies and signs
[01:23:36.400 --> 01:23:37.400]  and all that.
[01:23:37.400 --> 01:23:38.400]  I can understand that.
[01:23:38.400 --> 01:23:46.080]  You know, it's the entertainment district, and blah, blah, blah, you know, I, you know,
[01:23:46.080 --> 01:23:49.200]  I don't know, it just, it's frustrating.
[01:23:49.200 --> 01:23:54.860]  And I, so what were you saying again, I'm sorry, I just, you say they can't actually
[01:23:54.860 --> 01:23:56.760]  charge me with that?
[01:23:56.760 --> 01:24:00.160]  They cannot charge you with violating a city ordinance.
[01:24:00.160 --> 01:24:07.160]  A city ordinance is not a law, it is a rule, and it is not binding upon the public.
[01:24:07.160 --> 01:24:15.580]  It cannot be binding upon the public, except by the public's consent to abide by the rule.
[01:24:15.580 --> 01:24:21.560]  And that is pursuant Article 3, Section 29, Texas Constitution, and if they want to argue
[01:24:21.560 --> 01:24:26.080]  that the legislature passed that law, then you say they cannot pass a law that violates
[01:24:26.080 --> 01:24:30.200]  the Constitution, pursuant Article 1, Section 29.
[01:24:30.200 --> 01:24:31.400]  Wow.
[01:24:31.400 --> 01:24:32.600]  Okay.
[01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:41.800]  Hold on a second, Randy, would you, can you please repeat that one more time?
[01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:43.680]  Article 3, Section 29.
[01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:46.920]  What, what, I'm sorry, go one more time, please?
[01:24:46.920 --> 01:24:53.600]  Texas Constitution, Article 3, Section 29, requires all laws to have an enacting clause.
[01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:58.600]  The enacting clause itself specifically states that the legislature must be who passed the
[01:24:58.600 --> 01:24:59.600]  law.
[01:24:59.600 --> 01:25:00.600]  Okay.
[01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:06.520]  Then if they try to argue that the legislature did pass the law, then state very clearly
[01:25:06.520 --> 01:25:12.480]  that Article 1, Section 29 says that the legislature cannot pass any law that violates the Constitution
[01:25:12.480 --> 01:25:13.480]  of Texas.
[01:25:13.480 --> 01:25:18.160]  So this is Article 3 and Article 1, Section 29, is that, is that what you said?
[01:25:18.160 --> 01:25:19.160]  Correct.
[01:25:19.160 --> 01:25:22.360]  Both sections, or both articles, it's Section 29 in each one.
[01:25:22.360 --> 01:25:23.360]  All right.
[01:25:23.360 --> 01:25:24.360]  All right.
[01:25:24.360 --> 01:25:31.840]  Well, you know, I'm just, well, I talked to you guys a few times, you know, and I really
[01:25:31.840 --> 01:25:32.840]  enjoy your show.
[01:25:32.840 --> 01:25:34.200]  And I did want to involve them.
[01:25:34.200 --> 01:25:39.520]  Now, if you really want to tie the prosecutor and the judge up in knots, inform them that
[01:25:39.520 --> 01:25:47.240]  they are standing on top of a suit for malicious prosecution because, you know, it's very easy
[01:25:47.240 --> 01:25:53.320]  to show that it's impossible for you to have violated a law because an ordinance is not
[01:25:53.320 --> 01:25:54.320]  a law.
[01:25:54.320 --> 01:25:55.320]  Right.
[01:25:55.320 --> 01:25:59.320]  Well, they, they just grumped when I said, they said, oh, yeah, what's that?
[01:25:59.320 --> 01:26:00.920]  I said generating revenue.
[01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:03.880]  Oh, no, that's, that's the release officer.
[01:26:03.880 --> 01:26:05.360]  You're talking to two retards.
[01:26:05.360 --> 01:26:06.360]  Yeah, I understand.
[01:26:06.360 --> 01:26:09.760]  You're talking about the judge and the prosecutor.
[01:26:09.760 --> 01:26:14.720]  I say retards on you, police officers that may be listening to this.
[01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:16.440]  It's not that you're a natural retard.
[01:26:16.440 --> 01:26:18.320]  It's that you're a willful retard.
[01:26:18.320 --> 01:26:19.320]  Exactly.
[01:26:19.320 --> 01:26:20.320]  Yeah.
[01:26:20.320 --> 01:26:21.320]  You signed up for this.
[01:26:21.320 --> 01:26:22.320]  Yeah.
[01:26:22.320 --> 01:26:24.120]  To be, to be that way to people.
[01:26:24.120 --> 01:26:28.880]  And I talked to you guys before about the last year at the constry, I got a little ticket
[01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:31.800]  for playing over there in the little park.
[01:26:31.800 --> 01:26:34.480]  And I didn't, I went over to take a break.
[01:26:34.480 --> 01:26:39.360]  And I, anyway, I got a, after curfew ticket, okay, at the community court, right.
[01:26:39.360 --> 01:26:45.360]  And I, so now I've got this other, you know, and it's just ridiculous to me that they,
[01:26:45.360 --> 01:26:51.720]  you know, and like I said to them, I mean, I, you know, I know what this is all about.
[01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:52.720]  And you're, you're right.
[01:26:52.720 --> 01:26:58.120]  I guess they are, but I can't go in and talk, tell the judge she's retarded.
[01:26:58.120 --> 01:27:03.160]  You can, if she's willing to stand there and tell you to your face, the constitution doesn't
[01:27:03.160 --> 01:27:04.160]  matter.
[01:27:04.160 --> 01:27:05.160]  Right.
[01:27:05.160 --> 01:27:06.160]  All right.
[01:27:06.160 --> 01:27:09.720]  Well, I'm going to, I'm going to try and get, I got to go on the second and I'll just go
[01:27:09.720 --> 01:27:10.720]  up here again.
[01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:11.720]  I don't know.
[01:27:11.720 --> 01:27:17.720]  But anyway, yeah, I was wondering if I wanted to know how far off Lamar you were like by
[01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:23.720]  Ben Wythe or West Mary and if Debra needed any, any help, I'd be willing to do that for
[01:27:23.720 --> 01:27:24.720]  her.
[01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:25.720]  All right.
[01:27:25.720 --> 01:27:26.720]  Just send me an email.
[01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:27.720]  I don't have computers.
[01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:28.720]  Okay.
[01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:30.720]  If you don't have computers, then you won't be able to screen calls because everything
[01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:31.720]  is done on the computer.
[01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:32.720]  But thank you.
[01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:34.200]  I appreciate, I appreciate that, Greg.
[01:27:34.200 --> 01:27:35.200]  I really do.
[01:27:35.200 --> 01:27:36.200]  You're welcome.
[01:27:36.200 --> 01:27:37.200]  Okay.
[01:27:37.200 --> 01:27:38.200]  You know what I mean.
[01:27:38.200 --> 01:27:39.200]  Okay.
[01:27:39.200 --> 01:27:40.200]  All right.
[01:27:40.200 --> 01:27:41.200]  Stuff like that.
[01:27:41.200 --> 01:27:42.200]  Okay.
[01:27:42.200 --> 01:27:43.200]  All right.
[01:27:43.200 --> 01:27:44.200]  Thank you.
[01:27:44.200 --> 01:27:45.200]  Thank you guys.
[01:27:45.200 --> 01:27:46.200]  And I, I appreciate you.
[01:27:46.200 --> 01:27:47.200]  Okay.
[01:27:47.200 --> 01:27:48.200]  I'll try.
[01:27:48.200 --> 01:27:49.200]  I'll give you all a call back.
[01:27:49.200 --> 01:27:50.200]  Let you know what happens.
[01:27:50.200 --> 01:27:51.200]  All right.
[01:27:51.200 --> 01:27:52.200]  Thanks, Greg.
[01:27:52.200 --> 01:27:53.200]  You guys keep up the good work, please.
[01:27:53.200 --> 01:27:54.200]  Thank you, Greg.
[01:27:54.200 --> 01:27:55.200]  Okay.
[01:27:55.200 --> 01:27:56.200]  We're going now to Gary in Austin.
[01:27:56.200 --> 01:27:57.200]  Gary, thanks for calling in.
[01:27:57.200 --> 01:27:58.200]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:27:58.200 --> 01:28:01.200]  Well, I just want to tell Randy that I plan to be at his seminar on Saturday.
[01:28:01.200 --> 01:28:05.800]  And there's going to be a couple of appraisers, forensic appraisers, that's going to come
[01:28:05.800 --> 01:28:12.000]  up, show up, and a couple of brokers, as well as a computer guru.
[01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:13.000]  Good.
[01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:14.000]  Wonderful.
[01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:15.000]  We'll have you out.
[01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:19.840]  I am especially going to want to talk to those forensic appraisers.
[01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:20.840]  Hold on one moment.
[01:28:20.840 --> 01:28:23.320]  Gary, there's a lot of background noise on your end.
[01:28:23.320 --> 01:28:25.040]  Can you please move to a quieter room?
[01:28:25.040 --> 01:28:26.040]  Yes, I can.
[01:28:26.040 --> 01:28:29.320]  It's, it's, I'm lifting out two ears.
[01:28:29.320 --> 01:28:30.320]  Okay.
[01:28:30.320 --> 01:28:32.080]  Gary, you need to turn the radio off in the background.
[01:28:32.080 --> 01:28:33.080]  Yes, I'll.
[01:28:33.080 --> 01:28:34.080]  Okay.
[01:28:34.080 --> 01:28:35.080]  Thank you.
[01:28:35.080 --> 01:28:38.320]  And I will definitely see you on Saturday.
[01:28:38.320 --> 01:28:39.320]  Wonderful.
[01:28:39.320 --> 01:28:49.720]  And I've got some, several mortgage documents that I have over the years that I've had seven,
[01:28:49.720 --> 01:28:51.600]  eight, or nine, ten.
[01:28:51.600 --> 01:28:54.200]  I don't have any, I've had mortgage documents over the years.
[01:28:54.200 --> 01:28:57.680]  I'm not going to bring them, but we are going to look at them at a later date.
[01:28:57.680 --> 01:28:58.680]  Wonderful.
[01:28:58.680 --> 01:29:00.240]  You can go after each one of them.
[01:29:00.240 --> 01:29:01.240]  I've got plenty.
[01:29:01.240 --> 01:29:06.840]  Because the statute of fraud, the statute of limitation doesn't start to run until you
[01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:07.840]  discover the fraud.
[01:29:07.840 --> 01:29:11.600]  Well, see, the thing with this, yeah, I paid all these off.
[01:29:11.600 --> 01:29:13.200]  That's even better.
[01:29:13.200 --> 01:29:14.200]  I know.
[01:29:14.200 --> 01:29:19.080]  Now you can go after them and they don't have any counterclaim.
[01:29:19.080 --> 01:29:20.080]  There you go.
[01:29:20.080 --> 01:29:25.000]  So anyway, I just want to let you know that there's going to be two forensic appraisers
[01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:28.800]  going to come and talk to you and see if we can help support you a little bit.
[01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:29.800]  Wonderful.
[01:29:29.800 --> 01:29:30.800]  Okay.
[01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:31.800]  All right.
[01:29:31.800 --> 01:29:32.800]  Thank you very much.
[01:29:32.800 --> 01:29:33.800]  All right.
[01:29:33.800 --> 01:29:34.800]  Enjoy your program.
[01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:35.800]  You guys are fantastic.
[01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:36.800]  I'll never miss one.
[01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:37.800]  Wonderful.
[01:29:37.800 --> 01:29:38.800]  All right.
[01:29:38.800 --> 01:29:39.800]  Bye-bye.
[01:29:39.800 --> 01:29:40.800]  Well, that's good to hear.
[01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:43.280]  We always like it when people listen to our program.
[01:29:43.280 --> 01:29:49.040]  We sit here and talk into microphones and sometimes it's like we're talking into air.
[01:29:49.040 --> 01:29:51.040]  Well, I don't know about that.
[01:29:51.040 --> 01:29:52.520]  We get a lot of callers, Randy.
[01:29:52.520 --> 01:29:55.920]  Usually the call board is totally full, so I know somebody's listening.
[01:29:55.920 --> 01:29:56.920]  That's what makes us feel better.
[01:29:56.920 --> 01:29:57.920]  We'll be right back.
[01:29:57.920 --> 01:30:06.240]  It is so enlightening to listen to 90.1 FM, but finding things on the internet isn't
[01:30:06.240 --> 01:30:10.000]  so easy, and neither is finding like-minded people to share it with.
[01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:13.000]  Oh, well, I guess you haven't heard of Brave New Books, then.
[01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:14.000]  Brave New Books?
[01:30:14.000 --> 01:30:15.000]  Yes.
[01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:19.320]  Brave New Books has all the books and DVDs you're looking for by authors like Alex Jones,
[01:30:19.320 --> 01:30:21.320]  Ron Paul, and G. Edward Griffin.
[01:30:21.320 --> 01:30:24.720]  They even stock inner food, Berkey products, and Calvin Soaps.
[01:30:24.720 --> 01:30:27.640]  There's no way a place like that exists.
[01:30:27.640 --> 01:30:29.120]  Go check it out for yourself.
[01:30:29.120 --> 01:30:33.480]  It's downtown at 1904 Guadalupe Street, just south of UT.
[01:30:33.480 --> 01:30:36.880]  By UT, there's never anywhere to park down there.
[01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:42.080]  Actually, they now offer a free hour of parking for paying customers at the 500 MLK parking
[01:30:42.080 --> 01:30:45.080]  facility just behind the bookstore.
[01:30:45.080 --> 01:30:48.080]  It does exist, but when are they open?
[01:30:48.080 --> 01:30:52.840]  Monday through Saturday, 11 AM to 9 PM, and 1 to 6 PM on Sundays.
[01:30:52.840 --> 01:31:01.520]  So give them a call at 512-480-2503, or check out their events page at bravenewbookstore.com.
[01:31:01.520 --> 01:31:06.120]  Are you being harassed by debt collectors with phone calls, letters, or even lawsuits?
[01:31:06.120 --> 01:31:10.320]  Stop debt collectors now with the Michael Mears Proven Method.
[01:31:10.320 --> 01:31:14.640]  Michael Mears has won six cases in federal court against debt collectors, and now you
[01:31:14.640 --> 01:31:15.640]  can win, too.
[01:31:15.640 --> 01:31:20.560]  You'll get step-by-step instructions in plain English on how to win in court using federal
[01:31:20.560 --> 01:31:22.160]  civil rights statutes.
[01:31:22.160 --> 01:31:26.880]  What to do when contacted by phone, mail, or court summons, how to answer letters and
[01:31:26.880 --> 01:31:31.320]  phone calls, how to get debt collectors out of your credit report, how to turn the financial
[01:31:31.320 --> 01:31:35.080]  tables on them and make them pay you to go away.
[01:31:35.080 --> 01:31:40.200]  The Michael Mears Proven Method is the solution for how to stop debt collectors.
[01:31:40.200 --> 01:31:42.120]  Personal consultation is available as well.
[01:31:42.120 --> 01:31:47.880]  For more information, please visit ruleoflawradio.com and click on the blue Michael Mears banner,
[01:31:47.880 --> 01:31:50.880]  or email michaelmears at yahoo.com.
[01:31:50.880 --> 01:32:00.360]  That's ruleoflawradio.com, or email m-i-c-h-a-e-l-m-i-r-r-a-s at yahoo.com to learn how to stop debt
[01:32:00.360 --> 01:32:01.360]  collectors now.
[01:32:01.360 --> 01:32:29.360]  Yeah, and who you want to chip, who you take me for, free to leave?
[01:32:29.360 --> 01:32:40.880]  Okay, folks, we are back, we're taking your calls, 512-646-1984, we've got Denise from
[01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:41.880]  Oregon.
[01:32:41.880 --> 01:32:42.880]  Denise, thanks for calling in.
[01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:43.880]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:32:43.880 --> 01:32:52.160]  Well, I'd like to talk to Randy about a foreclosure that we're going through and see what we need
[01:32:52.160 --> 01:32:54.280]  to do.
[01:32:54.280 --> 01:33:00.520]  Okay, what condition is the mortgage in?
[01:33:00.520 --> 01:33:08.840]  Well, you had actually looked at our paperwork a few months ago from a friend of ours, and
[01:33:08.840 --> 01:33:16.840]  you had looked at it and seen where they had charged this 5% in origination fees.
[01:33:16.840 --> 01:33:22.200]  And we were getting ready to move on it, and they foreclosed on it.
[01:33:22.200 --> 01:33:26.640]  Okay, what is the state of the foreclosure, have they sold the property?
[01:33:26.640 --> 01:33:30.440]  No, they haven't, it goes up for auction on December 2nd.
[01:33:30.440 --> 01:33:37.360]  Okay, we have time, but we need to, the more quickly you move, the better position you're
[01:33:37.360 --> 01:33:38.360]  in.
[01:33:38.360 --> 01:33:42.160]  It would have been better if we could have hammered them before they got to the acceleration
[01:33:42.160 --> 01:33:43.160]  of the note.
[01:33:43.160 --> 01:33:44.160]  Right.
[01:33:44.160 --> 01:33:49.120]  But if you've got until December, then we don't have to go for a temporary restraining
[01:33:49.120 --> 01:33:51.200]  order and that makes life easier.
[01:33:51.200 --> 01:33:52.200]  Good.
[01:33:52.200 --> 01:33:54.760]  And we've got, we've got time to-
[01:33:54.760 --> 01:33:57.920]  Do we still have to send that one letter?
[01:33:57.920 --> 01:34:00.480]  You've got time for the qualified written request.
[01:34:00.480 --> 01:34:01.480]  Okay.
[01:34:01.480 --> 01:34:06.640]  We will, we can prepare that one, but you, I suggest you go ahead and sue them immediately.
[01:34:06.640 --> 01:34:09.320]  Sue them immediately, okay then?
[01:34:09.320 --> 01:34:14.440]  Send the qualified written request, the suit doesn't change their duty to respond to that.
[01:34:14.440 --> 01:34:15.680]  Okay.
[01:34:15.680 --> 01:34:21.760]  And the qualified written request has some landmines buried in it.
[01:34:21.760 --> 01:34:26.920]  Since you have until December, you have more than, you have six months, you have more than
[01:34:26.920 --> 01:34:31.440]  60 days, so the qualified written request has time to mature.
[01:34:31.440 --> 01:34:33.040]  Okay.
[01:34:33.040 --> 01:34:37.960]  When you file a qualified written request, and let me explain this to folks, a, there's
[01:34:37.960 --> 01:34:45.160]  a lot of guys out there filing documents that they're calling qualified written requests.
[01:34:45.160 --> 01:34:50.000]  Qualified written request is a term of art, it's defined in law.
[01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:58.840]  It's defined as a letter to the lender, notifying the lender of an accounting error and demanding
[01:34:58.840 --> 01:35:02.680]  that the lender correct the error.
[01:35:02.680 --> 01:35:07.720]  A lot of people are just sending letters to the lender, calling it a qualified written
[01:35:07.720 --> 01:35:10.160]  request and asking for discovery.
[01:35:10.160 --> 01:35:15.560]  Well, the lender has no duty to respond.
[01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:20.280]  If there is no claim of an accounting error and a demand that they correct the error,
[01:35:20.280 --> 01:35:24.640]  it does not invoke the statutes concerning a qualified written request.
[01:35:24.640 --> 01:35:25.640]  Okay.
[01:35:25.640 --> 01:35:28.280]  The one we send does.
[01:35:28.280 --> 01:35:37.160]  It claims a rather large accounting error, generally four or five times the amount of
[01:35:37.160 --> 01:35:39.160]  the original principal.
[01:35:39.160 --> 01:35:40.560]  Wow.
[01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:46.360]  And demand that they correct all the errors, and they never do.
[01:35:46.360 --> 01:35:52.320]  But buried in there, there's a demand that they rescind if they fail to provide proof
[01:35:52.320 --> 01:36:01.560]  that all the fees they charged were allowed by law, were necessary and were reasonable
[01:36:01.560 --> 01:36:06.680]  and the amounts charged were reasonable, and that they didn't take an undisclosed markup
[01:36:06.680 --> 01:36:09.480]  on those fees.
[01:36:09.480 --> 01:36:10.480]  Sorry.
[01:36:10.480 --> 01:36:11.480]  Go ahead.
[01:36:11.480 --> 01:36:12.480]  Okay.
[01:36:12.480 --> 01:36:17.400]  Isn't it the origination fee supposed to be like 1% of the loan?
[01:36:17.400 --> 01:36:18.400]  Exactly.
[01:36:18.400 --> 01:36:24.040]  It's restricted to 1% of the original principal.
[01:36:24.040 --> 01:36:29.680]  And sometimes, I believe if I remember yours right, you had an origination fee, then you
[01:36:29.680 --> 01:36:31.480]  had a yield spread premium.
[01:36:31.480 --> 01:36:32.480]  Yeah.
[01:36:32.480 --> 01:36:35.280]  We had to edit a lot of stuff on top of that.
[01:36:35.280 --> 01:36:36.280]  Yeah.
[01:36:36.280 --> 01:36:42.440]  The yield spread premium is a synonym for origination fee.
[01:36:42.440 --> 01:36:44.320]  It is exactly the same thing.
[01:36:44.320 --> 01:36:47.360]  And you had both.
[01:36:47.360 --> 01:36:54.600]  And they're so accustomed to people not catching it that they've gotten incredibly blatant
[01:36:54.600 --> 01:36:56.080]  and stupid.
[01:36:56.080 --> 01:37:00.240]  I mean, this is not something they can find a way around.
[01:37:00.240 --> 01:37:02.240]  That's good.
[01:37:02.240 --> 01:37:03.240]  Yeah.
[01:37:03.240 --> 01:37:05.400]  They put the full amount right on the paper.
[01:37:05.400 --> 01:37:14.400]  I mean, this is what we call the legal definition for this is dead bang.
[01:37:14.400 --> 01:37:17.480]  So this one will give them a problem.
[01:37:17.480 --> 01:37:22.480]  And we are getting more sophisticated with the documentation.
[01:37:22.480 --> 01:37:27.040]  I tell folks that I started this before I was ready.
[01:37:27.040 --> 01:37:31.160]  But when people found out I was doing it, and they're about to lose their house, and
[01:37:31.160 --> 01:37:34.620]  they come to me and say, you know, I'm going to be thrown out in three days.
[01:37:34.620 --> 01:37:37.080]  Can you do something to help me?
[01:37:37.080 --> 01:37:40.360]  They're not really interested in hearing me say, well, I wasn't really ready yet.
[01:37:40.360 --> 01:37:44.080]  I didn't have all my research done.
[01:37:44.080 --> 01:37:49.000]  So I'm just glad that you're out there and found that we're learning this.
[01:37:49.000 --> 01:37:50.000]  And we're out there.
[01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:54.800]  And as we're doing these, we're filling in the blanks.
[01:37:54.800 --> 01:38:00.560]  Every response we get from the other side, we use that to program it into the litigation
[01:38:00.560 --> 01:38:02.000]  engine.
[01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:06.480]  So the next time we get the response, we have the way to handle it already programmed in.
[01:38:06.480 --> 01:38:09.280]  We don't have to mess with it again.
[01:38:09.280 --> 01:38:13.840]  Everything the court asks us for, we program into the engine so that the next cases that
[01:38:13.840 --> 01:38:19.220]  go out get the documents that the court asked for in the last one so we don't get those
[01:38:19.220 --> 01:38:21.400]  questions again.
[01:38:21.400 --> 01:38:24.620]  And they're going to keep coming up with all the questions they can find, and we're going
[01:38:24.620 --> 01:38:32.600]  to keep programming in all the responses until they get a product that's so sophisticated
[01:38:32.600 --> 01:38:36.400]  they can't find a way to get around it.
[01:38:36.400 --> 01:38:37.560]  And it's growing.
[01:38:37.560 --> 01:38:39.340]  It's getting better.
[01:38:39.340 --> 01:38:47.040]  And in the next two or three months, we're going to have this thing far beyond the capabilities
[01:38:47.040 --> 01:38:52.160]  of most of the attorneys that are trying to fight against us.
[01:38:52.160 --> 01:38:57.360]  We really appreciate all your hard-working efforts.
[01:38:57.360 --> 01:39:05.200]  It's worth it that we've kept people in their houses, and that is incredibly rewarding.
[01:39:05.200 --> 01:39:08.560]  You know, I wish that we would have done a little bit more research on things when we
[01:39:08.560 --> 01:39:15.040]  did this, but now we know, and it's a hard lesson to learn.
[01:39:15.040 --> 01:39:19.960]  Well it's not over yet, and the ones that win.
[01:39:19.960 --> 01:39:23.120]  Stan Galleon just won his.
[01:39:23.120 --> 01:39:28.440]  He understands the battle's not over, or the war's not over.
[01:39:28.440 --> 01:39:33.600]  He's won a major battle, and he's got the other guys on the ropes.
[01:39:33.600 --> 01:39:36.280]  But it's not over yet, and he understands that.
[01:39:36.280 --> 01:39:44.480]  But he won a big one, and he only won it because no matter what they did, no matter what they
[01:39:44.480 --> 01:39:48.280]  threw at him, he went right back after them.
[01:39:48.280 --> 01:39:52.200]  Those are the ones that tend to win.
[01:39:52.200 --> 01:39:56.280]  The ones that throw up their hands and walk away.
[01:39:56.280 --> 01:39:59.600]  The lender is counting on you doing that.
[01:39:59.600 --> 01:40:06.280]  What he's not expecting is the kinds of responses we're now putting together.
[01:40:06.280 --> 01:40:11.560]  He files a frivolous pleading, we file a motion for sanctions of bar grievance, and countersue
[01:40:11.560 --> 01:40:12.560]  the attorney.
[01:40:12.560 --> 01:40:20.040]  Yeah, you want to fight, Bubba, I'll give you a fight you won't believe.
[01:40:20.040 --> 01:40:21.040]  They're not used to that.
[01:40:21.040 --> 01:40:26.080]  I'm hearing of so many of my friends and neighbors that are going this south.
[01:40:26.080 --> 01:40:27.080]  They're being foreclosed on.
[01:40:27.080 --> 01:40:32.800]  In fact, a friend of mine called you last week about hers that was foreclosed without
[01:40:32.800 --> 01:40:35.120]  her even having knowledge of it.
[01:40:35.120 --> 01:40:37.480]  Oh, those, yeah, I'm familiar with that one.
[01:40:37.480 --> 01:40:43.680]  We have a few of those, and that gives us a claim, and we need to look at the records.
[01:40:43.680 --> 01:40:46.480]  I've got one that I have to get put together.
[01:40:46.480 --> 01:40:54.080]  The first she knew about the foreclosure was when they came and pasted on her door an eviction
[01:40:54.080 --> 01:40:55.080]  notice.
[01:40:55.080 --> 01:40:56.080]  Yep.
[01:40:56.080 --> 01:41:02.000]  I went and looked in the court record, and there was a filing asking for foreclosure
[01:41:02.000 --> 01:41:08.680]  in the court record, but there was no certificate of service.
[01:41:08.680 --> 01:41:16.760]  What I maintained was no certificate of service in the court record, no subject matter jurisdiction
[01:41:16.760 --> 01:41:18.760]  for the court.
[01:41:18.760 --> 01:41:25.640]  My question for the judge was, when this lender came into your courtroom, and the person who
[01:41:25.640 --> 01:41:31.960]  was in the house wasn't in the courtroom, didn't you ask a question, hey guys, did you
[01:41:31.960 --> 01:41:36.000]  tell them about what was going on?
[01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:39.600]  Did you look at the court record to see if there was a certificate of service in the
[01:41:39.600 --> 01:41:41.440]  court record?
[01:41:41.440 --> 01:41:45.480]  Because you need that in order for you to have subject matter jurisdiction.
[01:41:45.480 --> 01:41:50.480]  If you don't have subject matter jurisdiction, you are impersonating a public official and
[01:41:50.480 --> 01:41:56.000]  I filed criminal charges against him with the district attorney.
[01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:58.480]  That was a hoot.
[01:41:58.480 --> 01:42:04.120]  So we're still after him, we'll be suing him personally, the judge.
[01:42:04.120 --> 01:42:11.640]  And I'm going to want to look at this case because if there is a certificate of service
[01:42:11.640 --> 01:42:17.640]  in the court record, then we go to the grand jury with charges of aggravated perjury, tampering
[01:42:17.640 --> 01:42:20.840]  with the government document against the lender.
[01:42:20.840 --> 01:42:26.600]  Actually, I have a more sophisticated plan than that.
[01:42:26.600 --> 01:42:31.960]  What we do first is go to the district attorney and ask him to prosecute the lender.
[01:42:31.960 --> 01:42:35.260]  And he's going to refuse.
[01:42:35.260 --> 01:42:39.200]  Then we go to the district judge and ask the district judge to prosecute the district attorney
[01:42:39.200 --> 01:42:41.600]  for not prosecuting the lender.
[01:42:41.600 --> 01:42:44.680]  And he's going to refuse.
[01:42:44.680 --> 01:42:50.980]  Then we go to the grand jury and prosecute the district judge for not prosecuting the
[01:42:50.980 --> 01:42:56.320]  district attorney for not prosecuting the lender.
[01:42:56.320 --> 01:43:00.600]  district judge is going to be really, really unhappy.
[01:43:01.600 --> 01:43:07.240]  And he's going to go to the district attorney and say, what have you gotten me into?
[01:43:09.200 --> 01:43:14.720]  Especially when we get half a dozen people trying to get the grand jury to
[01:43:14.720 --> 01:43:17.960]  indict the judge for official oppression.
[01:43:18.640 --> 01:43:23.480]  And, uh, Oh, what's the other one user?
[01:43:23.480 --> 01:43:32.280]  I mean, uh, outlawry denying you in the, in the, the protection of the court.
[01:43:32.320 --> 01:43:33.880]  That's forbidden in constitution.
[01:43:35.960 --> 01:43:41.040]  So we're, we're developing a lot of tools to go after these guys.
[01:43:41.920 --> 01:43:44.360]  And we'll talk about those a little more after the break.
[01:43:45.040 --> 01:43:46.000]  Hang on to these.
[01:43:46.480 --> 01:43:48.160]  Well, my phone is actually dying.
[01:43:48.640 --> 01:43:49.160]  Okay.
[01:43:49.400 --> 01:43:50.960]  Um, I will listen on the radio.
[01:43:51.080 --> 01:43:51.480]  Okay.
[01:43:51.480 --> 01:43:52.040]  Thank you.
[01:43:52.040 --> 01:43:56.440]  And Randy, Randy Kelton, David Stevens, Eddie Craig, we'll be
[01:43:56.440 --> 01:43:57.640]  right back on the other side.
[01:44:07.040 --> 01:44:13.960]  Aerial spring chemtrails, the modified atmosphere, heavy metals and pesticides,
[01:44:14.280 --> 01:44:18.120]  carcinogens and chemical fibers, all falling from the sky.
[01:44:18.120 --> 01:44:23.080]  You have a choice to keep your body clean, detoxified with micro plant
[01:44:23.080 --> 01:44:30.360]  powder from hemp USA.org or call 908-691-2608.
[01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:35.200]  It's odorless and tasteless and used in any liquid or food.
[01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:40.400]  Protect your family now with micro plant powder, cleaning out heavy
[01:44:40.400 --> 01:44:46.240]  metals, parasites, and toxins, water it now for daily intake and stock it
[01:44:46.240 --> 01:44:55.360]  now for long-term storage, visit hemp USA.org or call 908-691-2608 today.
[01:45:16.240 --> 01:45:45.560]  There's always a room at the top of the hill, I hear through the great
[01:45:45.560 --> 01:45:51.280]  mine and it's lonely left still, they're wishing it was more than opposition to
[01:45:51.280 --> 01:45:59.640]  fail, they know that if they don't do it, somebody will, this world will never
[01:45:59.640 --> 01:46:08.960]  understand, I realize fully, somebody's gonna call the police, that police
[01:46:08.960 --> 01:46:16.560]  might know somebody's gonna call the police, I know they will, yeah, they're
[01:46:16.560 --> 01:46:23.760]  gonna put the bill, cause I see so much in God's hand, I know they will never
[01:46:23.760 --> 01:46:30.400]  fail to get back to scale, I know they will never fail to get back to scale.
[01:46:30.520 --> 01:46:36.840]  Okay, we are back, the rule of law and Eddie had something he wanted to present
[01:46:36.840 --> 01:46:39.560]  tonight as well, so Randy, you were finishing up on this so that we can go
[01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:39.920]  to Eddie.
[01:46:39.920 --> 01:46:46.680]  Yeah, I just wanted to make a point to folks that if you're not in foreclosure,
[01:46:47.240 --> 01:46:54.480]  but you can see it coming, or if you're in the process of foreclosure, if you
[01:46:54.480 --> 01:46:59.960]  paid off your house completely, or if you've been foreclosed on and already
[01:46:59.960 --> 01:47:06.400]  out of the property, there is remedy, there is something you can do, you can
[01:47:06.400 --> 01:47:13.720]  go after them and recover, so don't think you've lost everything, and above
[01:47:13.720 --> 01:47:20.480]  all, do not let these scoundrels win, there's a lot of things we can do to be
[01:47:20.480 --> 01:47:26.400]  them up, and whether you use my process or not, frankly, it doesn't matter to
[01:47:26.400 --> 01:47:31.720]  me, sue the lender, file a good suit, file a bad suit, doesn't matter, sue the
[01:47:31.720 --> 01:47:37.720]  lender, you stop him in his tracks, you keep him from profiting from the
[01:47:37.720 --> 01:47:45.120]  crapola that he's done, so if you use my process or somebody else's, the key is
[01:47:45.120 --> 01:47:49.960]  suing the lender, get it done, stop these guys from stealing all the equity of
[01:47:49.960 --> 01:47:50.840]  this whole country.
[01:47:52.360 --> 01:47:53.880]  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
[01:47:54.040 --> 01:47:54.560]  Hear, hear.
[01:47:54.920 --> 01:47:58.800]  Now we go to Eddie, he had something he wanted to present in this last segment.
[01:47:59.240 --> 01:47:59.800]  Go ahead, Eddie.
[01:47:59.800 --> 01:48:05.440]  Well, I actually had one of my traffic listeners who's got the seminar call me
[01:48:05.440 --> 01:48:09.960]  about a case that he's on, and he actually had a judge that, of course,
[01:48:09.960 --> 01:48:14.680]  denied all his motions and all these other things, and basically just told him
[01:48:14.680 --> 01:48:19.880]  that they were going to use the ticket as the initial complaint.
[01:48:20.560 --> 01:48:24.480]  Well, there's kind of a problem with that, the court is trying to say that
[01:48:24.480 --> 01:48:30.240]  they are using Article 27.14D as in David, of the Code of Criminal Procedure
[01:48:30.240 --> 01:48:32.200]  as the basis for a valid complaint.
[01:48:32.200 --> 01:48:33.640]  Now I'm going to read this to you real quick.
[01:48:34.240 --> 01:48:39.200]  Subsection D, if written notice of an offense for which maximum possible
[01:48:39.200 --> 01:48:44.640]  punishment is by fine only or of a violation relating to the manner, time,
[01:48:44.640 --> 01:48:49.520]  and place of parking has been prepared, delivered, and filed with the court, and
[01:48:49.520 --> 01:48:54.880]  the legible duplicate copy has been given to the defendant, the written notice serves
[01:48:54.880 --> 01:49:00.080]  as a complaint to which the defendant may plead guilty, not guilty, or no lo contendere.
[01:49:00.640 --> 01:49:05.600]  If the defendant pleads not guilty to the offense, a complaint shall be filed
[01:49:05.600 --> 01:49:09.880]  that conforms to the requirements of Chapter 45 of this Code, and that
[01:49:09.880 --> 01:49:12.320]  complaint serves as an original complaint.
[01:49:12.640 --> 01:49:16.920]  A defendant may waive the filing of a sworn complaint and elect that the
[01:49:16.920 --> 01:49:20.640]  prosecution proceed on the written notice of the charged offense if the
[01:49:20.640 --> 01:49:25.200]  defendant agrees in writing with the prosecution, signs the agreement, and
[01:49:25.200 --> 01:49:26.360]  files it with the court.
[01:49:26.960 --> 01:49:31.920]  Here is just another prime example of where the effort was made to deny the
[01:49:31.920 --> 01:49:38.520]  same due process procedural rights to a Class C misdemeanor case as what
[01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:41.360]  exists for any other type of offense.
[01:49:42.760 --> 01:49:45.920]  Now does anyone besides me see a problem with any of this?
[01:49:45.920 --> 01:49:53.360]  Well, there are several, one of which is, one, this alleged written notice cannot
[01:49:53.360 --> 01:49:57.280]  possibly be a valid complaint for two major reasons.
[01:49:57.760 --> 01:50:01.600]  One, it is not signed by the police officer under oath.
[01:50:02.080 --> 01:50:07.840]  Two, it is not signed before any public official that by law can administer such
[01:50:07.840 --> 01:50:08.360]  an oath.
[01:50:09.120 --> 01:50:15.160]  Therefore, there is no way in heaven for this to even begin to be a valid
[01:50:15.160 --> 01:50:15.920]  complaint.
[01:50:17.240 --> 01:50:22.400]  This, once again, is about generating revenue by short-circuiting the due
[01:50:22.400 --> 01:50:30.040]  process procedural rights of the accused and creating a separate method of trial
[01:50:31.600 --> 01:50:32.640]  under this Code.
[01:50:34.240 --> 01:50:38.200]  And it's just ridiculous how that's going on.
[01:50:40.280 --> 01:50:44.360]  So I sent some information back to him that, one, he needs to immediately file
[01:50:44.360 --> 01:50:48.680]  criminal charges against this judge, because the judge should know very well
[01:50:48.680 --> 01:50:52.800]  this does not meet the requisites of a valid complaint and why it doesn't meet
[01:50:52.800 --> 01:50:53.000]  it.
[01:50:53.480 --> 01:50:58.040]  And, number two, the judge is also very aware that the legislature cannot pass
[01:50:58.040 --> 01:51:03.640]  laws that violate due process rights, and this, upon its face, clearly does
[01:51:03.640 --> 01:51:07.000]  that, absolutely clearly does that.
[01:51:07.000 --> 01:51:13.600]  So, folks, they will lie, they will cheat, they will steal, they will do anything
[01:51:13.600 --> 01:51:16.800]  they can to make you think they're giving you a fair trial.
[01:51:17.200 --> 01:51:19.240]  It is a lie.
[01:51:19.720 --> 01:51:21.960]  They're not giving you a fair anything.
[01:51:22.600 --> 01:51:26.080]  This is like playing gambling in Vegas.
[01:51:26.320 --> 01:51:32.200]  It is always rigged in favor of the House because they make it that way.
[01:51:32.200 --> 01:51:36.440]  Imagine if the House could write the rules for black people, and they would
[01:51:36.440 --> 01:51:42.320]  write the rules for Black Jack the way that it works best for them in any given
[01:51:42.320 --> 01:51:47.160]  situation, not just one set of rules that everybody has to play by all the time.
[01:51:47.840 --> 01:51:52.440]  But if something unexpected comes up that puts the House at a disadvantage, they
[01:51:52.440 --> 01:51:57.560]  can go in and change the rules so that the advantage remains on their side and
[01:51:57.560 --> 01:51:58.800]  they win the dispute.
[01:51:59.480 --> 01:52:02.560]  Well, that's exactly what you're getting into in these lower courts.
[01:52:03.200 --> 01:52:04.760]  It's a rigged system.
[01:52:04.760 --> 01:52:07.480]  It is rigged for generating revenue only.
[01:52:07.480 --> 01:52:09.400]  It's got nothing to do with justice.
[01:52:09.840 --> 01:52:15.040]  Do not go in there with your eyes closed thinking that you're going to get justice.
[01:52:15.600 --> 01:52:20.720]  Because if you're not willing to fight tooth and nail for it, it's a foregone
[01:52:20.720 --> 01:52:23.680]  conclusion, you will never even see it enter the room.
[01:52:26.120 --> 01:52:27.160]  So understand that.
[01:52:28.960 --> 01:52:30.200]  That's my rant for the evening.
[01:52:30.200 --> 01:52:35.360]  Yeah, well, at least like with these gambling games, Black Jack and such, I
[01:52:35.360 --> 01:52:40.400]  mean, those games are basically rigged for the House to win from an overall
[01:52:40.400 --> 01:52:41.760]  statistical point of view.
[01:52:41.760 --> 01:52:45.880]  But, you know, the situation you're describing, Eddie, is worse.
[01:52:45.880 --> 01:52:52.320]  They rig it on an individual basis, game by game, hand by hand, so to speak.
[01:52:52.320 --> 01:52:53.680]  Yep, that they are.
[01:52:55.600 --> 01:52:58.120]  All right, callers, we have about six minutes left if you want to call in.
[01:52:58.120 --> 01:53:02.800]  512-646-1984, we had a full board of callers Monday night.
[01:53:02.800 --> 01:53:06.360]  We weren't even able to get to everyone, so why don't some of you guys and gals
[01:53:06.360 --> 01:53:08.560]  call back in that we're waiting Monday night.
[01:53:08.760 --> 01:53:14.840]  In the meantime, again, folks, Randy is having his mortgage fraud seminar this
[01:53:14.840 --> 01:53:19.800]  coming Saturday at the Wyndham Conference Center and Hotel.
[01:53:19.840 --> 01:53:25.280]  It's at Woodward at I-35 on the northbound side of the highway.
[01:53:25.280 --> 01:53:31.840]  It's on the northeast corner of Woodward at I-35, starts at 1 p.m.
[01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:36.520]  Okay, and the cost of this seminar is zero.
[01:53:37.800 --> 01:53:41.560]  But if you don't register ahead of time, we're going to double the cost.
[01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:43.720]  Hardy har har.
[01:53:43.720 --> 01:53:46.200]  That's my position, and I'm sticking with it.
[01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:53.960]  And frankly, we're giving, the seminar is about what's really going on.
[01:53:53.960 --> 01:53:58.760]  I do have a product, and that's why I don't charge anything, but I'm not here
[01:53:58.760 --> 01:54:00.600]  at the seminar promoting the product.
[01:54:03.040 --> 01:54:04.200]  I'll make it clear.
[01:54:04.880 --> 01:54:12.440]  If, if you're in a foreclosure situation or looking at one, there's a magic bullet here.
[01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:14.680]  I hate magic bullets.
[01:54:15.400 --> 01:54:18.640]  I have people coming on the show all the time and they've got these magic bullets.
[01:54:19.280 --> 01:54:23.200]  And generally, Deborah is the one, the first one to tear it to pieces.
[01:54:23.200 --> 01:54:25.000]  And when she's done with it, I work it over.
[01:54:25.320 --> 01:54:33.880]  I hate magic bullets, but this one is, is, I guess the reason it's a magic bullet,
[01:54:33.880 --> 01:54:35.640]  it is, it's so simple.
[01:54:36.600 --> 01:54:39.720]  I haven't been able to tear Randy's magic bullets to pieces yet, though, folks.
[01:54:40.600 --> 01:54:42.360]  This one's not rocket science.
[01:54:42.840 --> 01:54:49.800]  It doesn't rely on some special way to hold your mouth or dotting an eye in a special way or.
[01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:51.160]  Signing with Redding.
[01:54:51.160 --> 01:55:00.760]  Yeah, yes, or, or, or preaching this specific incantation, sew them, just through the linder.
[01:55:02.400 --> 01:55:08.120]  Yeah, make it look on the internet, uh, do a search for foreclosure suits.
[01:55:08.120 --> 01:55:17.560]  Go down to the courthouse and go to the district court clerk and ask her to pull you up some records
[01:55:17.560 --> 01:55:23.320]  of cases on foreclosure and, and look through the, look at the pleadings, look at the original
[01:55:23.320 --> 01:55:27.360]  petition and look at the motions and stuff filed with it.
[01:55:27.360 --> 01:55:31.640]  Heck, they'll tell you how to, how to address the suit when I first started doing legal
[01:55:31.640 --> 01:55:34.720]  research and criminal, I went down and looked through the criminal files.
[01:55:35.600 --> 01:55:43.520]  I found incredible stuff in there and that's how I really learned how a criminal suit was supposed to go.
[01:55:43.520 --> 01:55:49.160]  Especially if you find a really good attorney with a wealthy client who really fights for him.
[01:55:49.160 --> 01:55:51.560]  You find all kinds of really neat stuff in there.
[01:55:51.880 --> 01:55:53.240]  You'll do the same thing here.
[01:55:54.800 --> 01:55:59.760]  Take one of their suits and take the parts that apply to you from three or four suits.
[01:55:59.760 --> 01:56:03.160]  That's what I did on the first one that, that I gave to someone here.
[01:56:03.640 --> 01:56:07.760]  I just went in and used my primary skill as a, I'm a plagiarist.
[01:56:07.760 --> 01:56:08.040]  All right.
[01:56:08.040 --> 01:56:10.760]  And Randy, also, we've got to call around and talk to you about this.
[01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:14.360]  I'm a plagiarist. All right. And Randy, also, we've got a caller on the board that called in.
[01:56:14.360 --> 01:56:14.680]  Okay.
[01:56:14.680 --> 01:56:18.280]  Well, I picked up the best ones I could find, stuck them all together, sued the lender.
[01:56:18.440 --> 01:56:19.480]  He's still in court with him.
[01:56:20.000 --> 01:56:20.800]  Nine months later.
[01:56:21.880 --> 01:56:22.240]  Okay.
[01:56:22.320 --> 01:56:22.840]  Robert.
[01:56:23.720 --> 01:56:24.080]  Yes.
[01:56:24.880 --> 01:56:26.240]  Do you got a question or comment?
[01:56:27.080 --> 01:56:27.520]  Yes.
[01:56:27.520 --> 01:56:36.680]  I'm tuning in late, so I apologize, but I am in a, fighting in a chapter 13 and fighting the validity of the lender
[01:56:36.680 --> 01:56:45.000]  standing and, and being already in a chapter 13. Do you think that I should dismiss my petition prior to?
[01:56:45.000 --> 01:56:47.320]  No, no, do not dismiss.
[01:56:47.720 --> 01:56:49.240]  Is this your first bankruptcy?
[01:56:49.920 --> 01:56:50.360]  Yes.
[01:56:50.600 --> 01:56:53.840]  How much time do you have left on your initial stay?
[01:56:55.080 --> 01:57:01.720]  Well, not much, but I, but I had a specific question because I've, I've listened in a few other times and I, and I
[01:57:01.720 --> 01:57:03.240]  thought I might, maybe I misheard you.
[01:57:03.240 --> 01:57:07.200]  So let me just finish telling you where, or what angle I'm coming from.
[01:57:07.880 --> 01:57:09.520]  We've got two minutes, so go quickly.
[01:57:10.000 --> 01:57:10.400]  Okay.
[01:57:11.840 --> 01:57:19.520]  Because I heard someone tell me that I should dismiss my petition prior to the relief of stay motion and then sue as
[01:57:19.520 --> 01:57:27.960]  the plaintiff or, or should I object to their proof of claim and file as defendant because as a defendant, I believe
[01:57:27.960 --> 01:57:35.520]  on the, and I file an adversary action, it would be better because as defendant, the burden of proof is on them and
[01:57:35.520 --> 01:57:38.040]  then they cannot withdraw their claim as the creditor, I believe.
[01:57:38.080 --> 01:57:39.760]  Are you in a 13 or a seven?
[01:57:40.240 --> 01:57:40.920]  A 13.
[01:57:41.320 --> 01:57:41.720]  Okay.
[01:57:43.880 --> 01:57:53.160]  If you have the stay in place, it would be easier to get a preliminary injunction to maintain the stay in the
[01:57:53.160 --> 01:57:58.800]  bankruptcy than to get a preliminary injunction in an original proceeding.
[01:57:59.800 --> 01:58:02.000]  This is what the bankruptcy attorneys are telling me.
[01:58:03.560 --> 01:58:12.560]  And, uh, and if they do toss your bank, if they do go ahead and lift the stay, then you can cancel the
[01:58:12.560 --> 01:58:15.600]  bankruptcy and sue them in an original petition.
[01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:17.360]  Okay.
[01:58:17.440 --> 01:58:21.600]  So otherwise the burden of proof is on them because the defendant has a right to
[01:58:21.600 --> 01:58:23.080]  sue where not every plaintiff does.
[01:58:23.080 --> 01:58:25.960]  They're trying to foreclose the burden of proof is always on them.
[01:58:26.880 --> 01:58:35.840]  And we've got two really good rulings out of Southern California against lenders for standing and they're out of
[01:58:35.840 --> 01:58:36.760]  bankruptcy courts.
[01:58:37.160 --> 01:58:37.560]  Okay.
[01:58:37.600 --> 01:58:38.720]  We are out of time.
[01:58:39.600 --> 01:58:44.240]  This is Randy Kelton, Deborah Stevens, Eddie Craig, Rule of All Radio.
[01:58:44.800 --> 01:58:49.360]  We'll be back tomorrow on our information info marathon.
[01:58:49.360 --> 01:58:51.480]  So Robert, you might want to call in tomorrow night.
[01:58:51.480 --> 01:58:53.200]  We'll discuss this a little more.
[01:58:53.200 --> 01:58:54.440]  Thank you all for listening.
[01:58:54.440 --> 01:59:19.280]  We'll be back tomorrow.