[00:00.000 --> 00:07.000] Okay, we are back with Officer Ben. [00:07.000 --> 00:13.640] We are blessed to be joined in overtime mode and overtime, yes, we are going into overtime [00:13.640 --> 00:14.640] after midnight. [00:14.640 --> 00:20.360] We appreciate Ben coming on because we want to understand and we want our listeners to [00:20.360 --> 00:27.320] understand where you live and Ben, you were telling us on the break that you know that [00:27.320 --> 00:33.600] there are officers who would arrest people on a heartbeat and make up a charge on the [00:33.600 --> 00:40.360] way to the jail and that you believe that in and of itself is a crime, is that correct? [00:40.360 --> 00:42.240] I do, I do. [00:42.240 --> 00:48.600] Yes, but how, what percentage would you say of policemen are like that? [00:48.600 --> 00:55.280] I would say that probably half or more and the reason I say that is because I think what [00:55.280 --> 00:59.760] happens to a lot of people from any walk of life, whether you are a police officer or [00:59.760 --> 01:06.160] a politician or you work in an office setting, at some point you are going to do something [01:06.160 --> 01:09.000] that would probably be out of character for you. [01:09.000 --> 01:14.240] In the authority position of a police officer they have a lot of decisions to make and in [01:14.240 --> 01:21.200] some cases it becomes sort of an ego thing, I am a police officer, I know the law better [01:21.200 --> 01:28.920] than you do and you can push it too far with some people and you can be arrested and you [01:28.920 --> 01:36.200] are going and it is very easy to bring anyone up on charges of disorderly conduct, threatening [01:36.200 --> 01:44.280] situations, inhibiting a police officer, you can sneeze in the wrong direction and a police [01:44.280 --> 01:48.880] officer could arrest you if the circumstances are right and that depends on how aggressive [01:48.880 --> 01:53.880] you have gotten, how combative you have gotten with a police officer. [01:53.880 --> 02:02.480] My point of saying that is that it does not matter what the law is and I think that people [02:02.480 --> 02:08.960] getting arrested for not actually breaking the law but only for in reality pissing off [02:08.960 --> 02:18.320] a police officer, I think it is illegal myself, but you will never ever ever ever stop that [02:18.320 --> 02:25.000] kind of thing, it is a fact, it always has been and it always will be unfortunately. [02:25.000 --> 02:33.440] If I could get the powers that be to direct the policeman to take the person directly [02:33.440 --> 02:40.040] to the magistrate and explain himself, 90% of this will just simply go away. [02:40.040 --> 02:45.160] Okay and I want to ask a question of Ben also and I understand what you are saying is true [02:45.160 --> 02:53.160] and that is what we all fear, going back to the fear thing, what do you think needs to [02:53.160 --> 03:02.600] be done so that the police would have more of a mindset of camaraderie or wanting to [03:02.600 --> 03:11.160] help us as non-police officers rather than if we sneeze the wrong way they are going [03:11.160 --> 03:20.120] to put us under the jail so to speak, I mean how can we bridge this gap so to speak where [03:20.120 --> 03:25.560] you are our friend, we are your friend, you are here to help us, you are here to protect [03:25.560 --> 03:30.520] us from real criminals, do you understand what I am saying, what do you think could [03:30.520 --> 03:32.280] help here? [03:32.280 --> 03:39.160] I do but I do not see anything helping, we are talking about just human nature and everything [03:39.160 --> 03:44.600] what I say does not apply to everyone but it applies to a lot of people. [03:44.600 --> 03:46.720] How does a person become a police officer? [03:46.720 --> 03:52.120] What drives a person to want to be a green beret or what makes someone want to become [03:52.120 --> 03:53.720] a ballet dancer? [03:53.720 --> 04:00.640] There are certain traits and characteristics and personality quirks that make people comfortable [04:00.640 --> 04:09.000] in the position of a police officer and it is not shy people, it is not quiet or unassuming [04:09.000 --> 04:18.400] people, it is take charge, it is aggressive, it usually has a physical bearing about them, [04:18.400 --> 04:24.640] there are reasons people become police officers and if you put enough of those people in there [04:24.640 --> 04:31.960] you are going to have a larger percentage of that type of personality that is, that [04:31.960 --> 04:36.480] wields authority over people and you are never going to get away from that, it is a cultural [04:36.480 --> 04:39.280] thing and it is important. [04:39.280 --> 04:47.800] Let me ask you another question Ben and this may go to you all's training, when you all [04:47.800 --> 04:58.400] are dealing with a situation, what is the goal, is the goal to pacify and diffuse and [04:58.400 --> 05:03.800] you know what I am saying, trying to have a peaceful outcome and do what is best for [05:03.800 --> 05:12.520] the individuals around you or is the goal to just have complete and utter control at [05:12.520 --> 05:16.800] all costs no matter what or is it somewhere in between? [05:16.800 --> 05:22.880] I want to say it is somewhere in between, if you consider, if you talk about let's say [05:22.880 --> 05:34.400] military action, there are casualties, what is the word, casualties that are not military [05:34.400 --> 05:42.520] type targets, people get hurt, collateral damage, that is what I am thinking of, that [05:42.520 --> 05:51.080] is going to happen, now when it comes to a situation where a police officer now has control [05:51.080 --> 05:57.520] and responsibility of what happens from the point that they enter a scene, they have to [05:57.520 --> 06:04.640] secure that scene and very often and these are some of the tactics that we get most criticized [06:04.640 --> 06:10.960] for, we have to establish immediate control of the scene because we are responsible for [06:10.960 --> 06:15.960] what happens afterwards, if we are at a big bar fight and if we see somebody that is acting [06:15.960 --> 06:20.880] a certain way, we are going to try to neutralize that action as quickly as possible, it is [06:20.880 --> 06:27.360] going to come aggressively, it is going to come fast and you have seen enough time, if [06:27.360 --> 06:32.800] you put an officer in enough of those scenarios eventually he is going to make a wrong move, [06:32.800 --> 06:37.040] he is going to hit somebody the wrong way, push somebody the wrong way and it was just [06:37.040 --> 06:42.280] a video on TV today of an officer pushing a kid down outside of a theater and he fell [06:42.280 --> 06:47.400] back, hit his head on the wall and he is in a coma now, those are the things that kind [06:47.400 --> 06:53.040] of happen when your adrenaline is pumping and you are in a situation where you cannot [06:53.040 --> 06:59.720] predict the outcome but there are unknown dangers to you and the other people around [06:59.720 --> 07:07.720] you, it is not an excuse for anything but it is a fact of the job that nobody will ever [07:07.720 --> 07:16.120] get away from and the loser the majority of times in these situations are innocent people [07:16.120 --> 07:23.480] and that is the thing that you cannot control because in your effort to make the situation [07:23.480 --> 07:30.280] safe immediately for as many people as possible, innocent people get caught up in that net [07:30.280 --> 07:40.240] and then the courts can sort it out, so we say even if we arrest somebody, yes go ahead. [07:40.240 --> 07:44.960] That is exactly what I am trying to get to, is get the courts where they stand in their [07:44.960 --> 07:51.160] position to act as a check and balance, that is what is not happening. [07:51.160 --> 07:56.880] You mean in an immediate, when I jumped in on the, when I got in on the conversation [07:56.880 --> 08:04.280] after listening on the radio, the impression that I got was that and I have heard some [08:04.280 --> 08:14.560] other shows that where it is essentially people trying to provide technicality, reasons that [08:14.560 --> 08:18.720] never really do fly when you try to apply them, that is the impression that I got, I [08:18.720 --> 08:23.480] could have gotten the wrong impression but, can I jump in on that Randy? [08:23.480 --> 08:28.200] Yeah I want to just let me say something real quick and then I want to let Randy respond. [08:28.200 --> 08:36.480] Ben, we have been doing this show for over two years now, okay and our callers, our listeners [08:36.480 --> 08:44.320] and us, we have progressed through learning law and so when you, and when new people come [08:44.320 --> 08:49.800] in and hear these things, I can see, I can understand how you would get that impression [08:49.800 --> 08:56.360] but it is only because we ourselves are just trying to iron out and understand fine points [08:56.360 --> 09:02.680] of law but really I personally, I do not believe Randy or any of our listeners have any intention [09:02.680 --> 09:11.120] of trying to pull anything based on loopholes or technicalities, do you understand what [09:11.120 --> 09:14.160] I am saying and I will let Randy, I will let Randy respond. [09:14.160 --> 09:21.760] Let me explain my posture and I explain this on the air a lot, if you do not know where [09:21.760 --> 09:28.280] you are going, you will almost certainly wind up somewhere else and I have one purpose in [09:28.280 --> 09:38.280] all that I am doing here, I want to put every judge in a position such that when he steps [09:38.280 --> 09:44.480] out behind the bench and looks out across the bar at the gallery, he is wondering which [09:44.480 --> 09:49.600] one, which one of those jack legs are standing out there waiting for me to render a ruling [09:49.600 --> 09:56.320] he does not think is proper, so he can run down to the grand jury and try to get me indicted. [09:56.320 --> 10:00.760] Now tell everybody real quick, I do not want anybody indicted, I file criminal charges [10:00.760 --> 10:07.120] all the time, I do not want anybody indicted, I want them to realize and everything is about [10:07.120 --> 10:14.340] the judges, the police are not the problem, the judges are the problem, they are not enforcing [10:14.340 --> 10:20.640] the law that is in front of them, if they did their job all this other stuff would simply [10:20.640 --> 10:31.720] go away, so everything that I am doing is focused toward getting the judges to follow [10:31.720 --> 10:38.880] law and sometimes I have to get standing to come before them, which I am about to do in [10:38.880 --> 10:43.040] Austin and I am about to land on a judge like a ton of bricks. [10:43.040 --> 10:45.680] Go ahead Ben, you are about to ask us something. [10:45.680 --> 10:50.960] As far as the judges are concerned, do you think that they are trying to achieve something [10:50.960 --> 10:55.200] whether they are just lazy or that they just do not understand the law? [10:55.200 --> 11:01.600] I think they have been, they were attorneys and they came into a system they did not create [11:01.600 --> 11:07.840] and they did things the way things were done and most of the judges in criminal cases were [11:07.840 --> 11:13.680] prosecutors, the prosecutor gets into this position, he did not create this, he is just [11:13.680 --> 11:20.920] doing it the way it has always been done and then they move up to judges and they do things [11:20.920 --> 11:26.160] the way they have always been done and I walk in and walk through the code of criminal procedure [11:26.160 --> 11:33.320] front to back and show them where essentially every step from arrest to trial as presently [11:33.320 --> 11:40.680] practiced in the state of Texas is not only wrong, it is very specifically against particular [11:40.680 --> 11:48.520] law, I demonstrate it with what an attorney would call specificity and particularity and [11:48.520 --> 11:55.840] once you look at all of it, it really makes sense how it all should work and I was really [11:55.840 --> 12:00.520] glad Deborah asked you that question about whether you would have a problem taking someone [12:00.520 --> 12:05.600] before a magistrate, I have asked a lot of policemen that and not one had an objection. [12:05.600 --> 12:11.360] And you did neither and I just wanted to comment just very quickly on what Randy was saying [12:11.360 --> 12:17.440] about every step from arrest to trial is against law, it is not like there is a few things [12:17.440 --> 12:25.600] that are obscure that break some obscure law or some loophole, we are talking every single [12:25.600 --> 12:34.200] line of the entire criminal procedure code of the state of Texas is violated, we are [12:34.200 --> 12:39.280] talking hundreds of violations and I would be glad to sit down with you and walk right [12:39.280 --> 12:47.440] through it step by step, how it is wrong and everybody I have talked to, the police, prosecutors, [12:47.440 --> 12:52.480] magistrates, I ask them would you have any objection if a policeman arrests someone [12:52.480 --> 12:56.960] taking him directly to the magistrate and not one had an objection. [12:56.960 --> 13:02.840] So I look around and say what the heck is going on here, nobody has a problem with doing [13:02.840 --> 13:08.480] it right the way the statute says it is supposed to be done but everybody is doing it in a [13:08.480 --> 13:15.400] way that is a horrendous mess, makes it worse for everybody and frankly I just spoke before [13:15.400 --> 13:23.240] the city council in a meeting where the chief was trying to get a proposition where officers [13:23.240 --> 13:27.800] could take blood on the side of the highway and I asked them what is the point, you got [13:27.800 --> 13:36.720] a 99.6% conviction rate, why do you need more evidence, everybody pleads guilty, everybody [13:36.720 --> 13:42.680] takes the kill, the problem is the prosecutor, the guy who is a real criminal who has been [13:42.680 --> 13:47.200] through the system, he knows how to work the system, you arrest him, he goes in, makes [13:47.200 --> 13:51.120] a deal, he is on the street before you get done with the paperwork, the problem is not [13:51.120 --> 13:58.560] the case, it is the prosecutor, he don't want to have to prosecute all these cases, he wants [13:58.560 --> 14:07.760] to make a deal, everything is about the deal, the state, the governor's commission on criminal [14:07.760 --> 14:20.000] justice oversight council in 02 complained that everybody takes the deal, then after [14:20.000 --> 14:27.680] the deal, if they mess up on the probation and jail time, it is over crowned the jails, [14:27.680 --> 14:38.680] and that is right, it is, in the United States, the United States has 4% of the world's population, [14:38.680 --> 14:48.240] we house 50% of the world's population of inmates, and it is not the police, the police [14:48.240 --> 14:53.560] is struggling to do it right in a system you did not create, the prosecutors, I blame them [14:53.560 --> 14:58.680] but they didn't do it, the judges, I blame them, they didn't do it either, and everybody [14:58.680 --> 15:09.700] who listens to me knows who I blame, me, me and you and all of us citizens, we ask you [15:09.700 --> 15:17.280] to protect us and we didn't return the favor, we ask you to enforce law and we didn't do [15:17.280 --> 15:25.680] the same thing, it is our job, had we screamed bloody murder at the first step outside the [15:25.680 --> 15:32.560] legal lines, all these problems wouldn't have happened, and I especially like to take on [15:32.560 --> 15:38.760] tinky-tanky little issues, I don't want to take on this sergeant who smashed my face [15:38.760 --> 15:44.840] at the wall because he lost control, he was trying to control me and he couldn't, I just [15:44.840 --> 15:49.640] kept telling him, I don't want to talk to you, go away, beat it, scrap, yeah, what part [15:49.640 --> 15:55.840] of, oh we lost him, we lost him, okay, well maybe he'll come back, maybe he'll come back [15:55.840 --> 16:01.120] to another show, I would like to, hopefully he'll listen to this and if he is still listening [16:01.120 --> 16:06.240] I'd like to go ahead and ask something to him, he sounds like he's genuinely concerned [16:06.240 --> 16:12.200] with doing it right, that's first and foremost and that's, yeah, I was, to seldom we get [16:12.200 --> 16:21.560] a policeman call in and I was policed, did I lose you, oh we're here, oh I thought I [16:21.560 --> 16:29.880] lost Craig, Eddie are you there, hold on, I think we lost Craig, hold on, everybody's [16:29.880 --> 16:38.320] getting lost here, for me it would be great to have a policeman just go through this and [16:38.320 --> 16:46.880] get his opinion on it and his take and especially his take on how we could make things better, [16:46.880 --> 16:51.640] well I tried to ask him that already and it sounded to me like he was saying it can't [16:51.640 --> 16:59.640] be, he sounded frustrated and I understand his frustration and I think that's exactly [16:59.640 --> 17:09.560] the point, he seemed frustrated of what he heard of our show initially because he got [17:09.560 --> 17:16.120] the impression that we're all trying to get people off who shouldn't be getting off because [17:16.120 --> 17:23.840] of loopholes and that's not really what it's about, it has to do with due process and we [17:23.840 --> 17:30.000] just want our public officials to follow law just like we have to and I'm sorry but the [17:30.000 --> 17:38.320] criminal procedure code of the state of Texas is not an obscure, outdated, antiquated law, [17:38.320 --> 17:51.120] this is the structure of our criminal justice system and, which point did I get lost, I [17:51.120 --> 17:59.480] was talking, I had just talked about, right after we dropped him, just a couple seconds [17:59.480 --> 18:04.480] later we dropped you, right but see I can see where he's coming from and I'm really [18:04.480 --> 18:10.800] glad that Ben called in to give us his sign because what he's saying is, well he doesn't [18:10.800 --> 18:16.880] mind if he has to bring people directly to a magistrate upon arrest but it's cumbersome, [18:16.880 --> 18:24.480] there's a pain because it takes time and the officers have to be off the street when they [18:24.480 --> 18:31.920] could be out there on the beat and grabbing more people and stuff like that, okay but [18:31.920 --> 18:38.280] like Eddie says, what about our liberties, what about the person who gets railroaded [18:38.280 --> 18:44.720] because of a cop with an attitude, that time can never be replaced, all right, in their [18:44.720 --> 18:53.920] life, ever and we have to preserve liberties at all costs. [18:53.920 --> 18:57.680] What I really wanted to ask you while it was on air if I got the chance to do it was that [18:57.680 --> 19:03.620] as a police officer who sounds like he wants to do it right, okay, if it's brought to his [19:03.620 --> 19:08.440] attention that he is doing it wrong, what's his take on that, oh I need to correct my [19:08.440 --> 19:13.880] actions or oh well this is just how I've been doing it, I'd like to know what his personal [19:13.880 --> 19:20.120] sway on that is and a good example, hang on a second and I'll let you have it, but a good [19:20.120 --> 19:26.120] example would be if you show the officer that he is enforcing a law that says it's specifically [19:26.120 --> 19:31.480] limited to blue vehicles for instance but he is actively enforcing it against every [19:31.480 --> 19:36.880] color vehicle on the road, now this is just a simple example, if you show this officer [19:36.880 --> 19:43.760] that it only applies in this instance, shouldn't the officer take the personal responsibility [19:43.760 --> 19:46.880] to make the adjustment of the enforcement? [19:46.880 --> 19:51.680] From the way it sounded like he was talking, no, we're being accused of nitpicking as the [19:51.680 --> 19:57.040] person who has bothered to read it and knows it's not supposed to be being applied to us [19:57.040 --> 20:01.960] but because we're arguing against it now we're trouble makers when what we're really trying [20:01.960 --> 20:07.640] to do is say look, we're not the one making the mistake here, okay, we're trying to show [20:07.640 --> 20:13.600] you that you are and all we're asking is for you to take the responsibility as that officer [20:13.600 --> 20:18.720] to say you're right, I goofed, I'll adjust and I'll do it right from now on and that's [20:18.720 --> 20:20.280] really what we're trying to do. [20:20.280 --> 20:28.160] Well see I see a bigger problem that this is going to a discretion of where Officer [20:28.160 --> 20:33.440] Ben was saying, basically it sounded to me like he was saying well if he feels the law [20:33.440 --> 20:41.120] is obscure or antiquated then he doesn't need to bother with it so now we are placed in [20:41.120 --> 20:47.600] the position of having to prove to him and show him that the criminal procedure code [20:47.600 --> 20:54.440] which structures our entire criminal justice system is not an obscure antiquated law and [20:54.440 --> 20:58.880] that's highly unfortunate and I hope that that's not really the way that it is but like [20:58.880 --> 21:02.480] Eddie says it sounds like he wants to do the right thing. [21:02.480 --> 21:06.520] Yeah and that's where we've dealt with that before though when we talk about it being [21:06.520 --> 21:11.760] antiquated and I've told you I have literally had police officers sit on the stand and tell [21:11.760 --> 21:17.280] me I don't have to read the law, I don't have to know what it says, I just have to enforce [21:17.280 --> 21:21.400] it and unfortunately that's a common mindset. [21:21.400 --> 21:29.520] Yeah I know that and trying to train each officer will be an impossible task, we can't [21:29.520 --> 21:30.520] do that. [21:30.520 --> 21:33.520] Well then we have to deal with those training. [21:33.520 --> 21:38.920] No that's what judges are for, judges will take care of that. [21:38.920 --> 21:45.000] We kick the judges behind then the judge will kick their behind. [21:45.000 --> 21:51.600] Well yes I agree Randy but what about the training programs of the police, the police [21:51.600 --> 21:59.720] academies, what about the training that they go through okay if they were trained to follow [21:59.720 --> 22:06.360] law then they would do it, they're going to do what they're trained to do. [22:06.360 --> 22:15.840] Exactly and we will get that from the tip of the spear or the judges, the judges will [22:15.840 --> 22:19.000] force the training to change, they'll do all of that for us. [22:19.000 --> 22:25.480] When the judges start kicking these policemen's behind for not following due process and kicking [22:25.480 --> 22:32.400] the prosecutors behind, primarily the prosecutor and then the prosecutor will give different [22:32.400 --> 22:36.320] advice to the police and then the training will have to change. [22:36.320 --> 22:43.480] So trying to beat up the policeman, there were a lot of things I didn't say to him [22:43.480 --> 22:48.800] because I didn't want to challenge him that hard, I was so pleased that we actually got [22:48.800 --> 22:54.040] a policeman that cared enough to call in, I certainly didn't want to beat him up too [22:54.040 --> 22:59.640] bad but I didn't want to go to what I'm doing to try to get this stopped. [22:59.640 --> 23:06.480] This policeman who smashed my face into the wall and arrested me, his career is going [23:06.480 --> 23:07.480] to end. [23:07.480 --> 23:14.520] Yeah and what you were saying is that we don't want to end these people's careers really [23:14.520 --> 23:15.520] ultimately. [23:15.520 --> 23:20.600] This is not what I wanted to happen but you know here I follow the thunder, he opened [23:20.600 --> 23:22.840] this door now he has to walk through it. [23:22.840 --> 23:27.960] Well see the thing is I still want to go to these training programs, how are they getting [23:27.960 --> 23:33.400] funded, what are the laws, what are the statutes that are being passed by our state legislature, [23:33.400 --> 23:37.920] the appropriations to fund these training programs, who's running them, what are their [23:37.920 --> 23:45.600] curriculums, who's the dean, who's the principal, who are the teachers, what exactly are these [23:45.600 --> 23:49.360] people teaching our police to do? [23:49.360 --> 23:54.840] Well having been through that I can respond to that and it goes back to what I said before. [23:54.840 --> 23:59.120] Most officers have never been taught to read the statute. [23:59.120 --> 24:06.760] A lot of them are thrown a simple field guide which is nothing more than somebody's attempt [24:06.760 --> 24:13.600] to summarize the intent of the statute into a brief description that the officer has to [24:13.600 --> 24:15.760] absorb in the field. [24:15.760 --> 24:20.880] It doesn't deal with the actual statute, the actual application and the actual language [24:20.880 --> 24:28.000] that comprises that statute and that's where that discretion part kicks in at a high rate. [24:28.000 --> 24:33.760] The officer's going by the little bit of information he's got and he believes with all his heart [24:33.760 --> 24:39.880] is correct most of the time and then you've got the full language of the legislature that [24:39.880 --> 24:44.960] lined it out and they do not directly translate. [24:44.960 --> 24:50.120] And you also have the feds that are funding training programs to teach our police to do [24:50.120 --> 24:55.800] things that have nothing to do with our state laws whatsoever on top of it. [24:55.800 --> 24:58.440] Actually we really need to go back to our callers. [24:58.440 --> 25:02.560] Okay we're going to go back to the callers and I'm going to trace down just what these [25:02.560 --> 25:08.160] training programs are anyway and who's funding them and what that is all about. [25:08.160 --> 25:11.880] Okay we're going to, sorry callers, we're going to go back to the call board but this [25:11.880 --> 25:18.280] is very important, I feel very honored that you know we have some police officers, a police [25:18.280 --> 25:22.520] officer that felt he wanted to call in and talk to us about these issues. [25:22.520 --> 25:24.560] Okay we're going to go to Mitchell in Texas. [25:24.560 --> 25:26.400] Mitchell thanks for calling in and thanks for holding. [25:26.400 --> 25:27.400] What's on your mind? [25:27.400 --> 25:34.960] Before I get to my first point just to comment on Ben's call, I found it actually kind of [25:34.960 --> 25:43.120] scary because he's got this mindset apparently that he does have some discretion to interpret [25:43.120 --> 25:47.960] the law and say well really things shouldn't work that way. [25:47.960 --> 25:55.000] I'm here to decide what's better and that's very, other than just wrong, it's very unprofessional [25:55.000 --> 25:56.000] too. [25:56.000 --> 26:00.800] I mean if you want to play in business terms you know you're given a set of orders, follow [26:00.800 --> 26:08.360] the law and it's not up to you to decide well in this case maybe it's not, things shouldn't [26:08.360 --> 26:16.200] be that way and it's not up to him to determine what the reasons are behind the law and frankly [26:16.200 --> 26:22.200] I guess my advice to countering some of his arguments would be to say we won't even go [26:22.200 --> 26:28.080] there as to why, if you want to change the law go ahead and you know protest or whatever [26:28.080 --> 26:31.280] or write another law to have the law changed. [26:31.280 --> 26:39.880] Right now you're authorized to uphold the law, not a different interpretation or a different [26:39.880 --> 26:47.160] application or a change in the law so I agree with you. [26:47.160 --> 26:49.640] You landed dead on it. [26:49.640 --> 26:58.880] The problem here is the mindset, it's the posture and the police are trained into this [26:58.880 --> 27:07.120] posture and part of it the criminals help to train them into it. [27:07.120 --> 27:13.480] I spent six days in jail once and it was a real eye-opener. [27:13.480 --> 27:18.840] These guys who had been in there a while, the only things they could talk about was [27:18.840 --> 27:21.680] what they were going to have for their next meal and the caper they were going to pull [27:21.680 --> 27:24.160] when they got out. [27:24.160 --> 27:31.440] The same guys, something like 90% of all the crime are committed, perpetrated by 10% of [27:31.440 --> 27:32.440] the population. [27:32.440 --> 27:37.840] Same guys over and over and over and over and the police get used to them so they help [27:37.840 --> 27:44.720] train the police to think that we're all criminal scum and because they don't have that much [27:44.720 --> 27:49.960] dealings with those of us who aren't, it develops this mindset. [27:49.960 --> 27:56.360] Everything about what I'm trying to do is change that mindset. [27:56.360 --> 28:01.560] Bring it back to where the police and the public are both on the same side. [28:01.560 --> 28:11.480] And Mitchell, it seemed to me that I wasn't quite sure if he held that opinion himself. [28:11.480 --> 28:16.680] It seemed to me he may have to a certain extent or was just trying to express to us that other [28:16.680 --> 28:26.160] police officers do that if they perceive that people like us are pushing the envelope, quote [28:26.160 --> 28:33.960] unquote, or filing documents or doing things to try to maneuver through loopholes just [28:33.960 --> 28:39.480] to be cocky and push the envelope of we have liberty, we have liberty, then it's going [28:39.480 --> 28:49.560] to incite them to become defensive and want to react according to what he's saying is [28:49.560 --> 28:51.760] human nature. [28:51.760 --> 28:58.480] And I agree with you, Mitchell, and my take on the whole thing is it's not their decision. [28:58.480 --> 29:06.920] It's not their place to decide whether or not what we're doing is being cocky of maneuvering [29:06.920 --> 29:13.200] through loopholes just to push some point or whether or not this is a very serious issue [29:13.200 --> 29:16.560] of fundamental liberties, okay? [29:16.560 --> 29:19.360] So I don't know what can be done about this. [29:19.360 --> 29:20.360] I really don't. [29:20.360 --> 29:24.600] And even he said that he doesn't know what can be done. [29:24.600 --> 29:26.960] I know what can be done about it. [29:26.960 --> 29:33.360] The other point is what I don't think he realized or my perception of what he doesn't realize. [29:33.360 --> 29:38.400] And I don't know if you guys touched on this too or I know you're intending to, but maybe [29:38.400 --> 29:43.800] just summarizing it a little bit is letting the system play out the way it's supposed [29:43.800 --> 29:49.680] to act as a natural governor for governance on the whole process. [29:49.680 --> 29:57.280] So if the police get overloaded with taking people on what is ultimately determined to [29:57.280 --> 30:06.400] be obscure reasons or just troublemaking or whatever, then the magistrates will just put [30:06.400 --> 30:15.320] those people in jail because they'll agree too or 180 degrees from that, if like in Randy's [30:15.320 --> 30:21.200] case, it was determined not to be obscure and that the police officer was wrong, then [30:21.200 --> 30:29.840] that is a natural governor too because the feedback from that, you used Ron Paul's term [30:29.840 --> 30:37.240] before, the blowback from that is that the police will then be sort of beat into shape [30:37.240 --> 30:42.920] like you're getting at or you keep alluding to, Randy, about how this ultimately filters [30:42.920 --> 30:44.240] back to the system. [30:44.240 --> 30:52.800] So by subverting the system, I mean by subverting one process or one link in the system, it [30:52.800 --> 30:54.800] makes the whole system break down. [30:54.800 --> 30:55.800] Precise. [30:55.800 --> 31:02.480] Sort of like the Constitution, you take out one part of the Constitution, you know, whatever, [31:02.480 --> 31:06.880] representatives in the Senate representing the state, suddenly everything else is shaking [31:06.880 --> 31:11.280] and it no longer acts like it was supposed to. [31:11.280 --> 31:19.120] Right, well this is, and I agree with Officer Ben when he's talking about the human nature, [31:19.120 --> 31:27.920] okay, people that get in positions of power are going to be led, attempted and most likely [31:27.920 --> 31:35.540] engage in abusing that power and that's why the founders of our republic set up the separation [31:35.540 --> 31:39.840] of the branches of government and I see two remedies here. [31:39.840 --> 31:45.520] Number one, we need to take control of the training programs of our police, okay, and [31:45.520 --> 31:51.240] number two, Randy's remedies, kick them in the butt when they don't follow law. [31:51.240 --> 31:58.480] Yeah, mainly we get the judges straightened out, they'll take care of everybody else and [31:58.480 --> 32:03.720] it's kind of unfortunate that I have to go through the guys at the bottom to get up there [32:03.720 --> 32:09.280] but I suspect that this case I'm about to bring, when I charged the director of the [32:09.280 --> 32:14.920] department of his, the major, I never did get to the assistant director, I'll just go [32:14.920 --> 32:22.600] for the major, Major Remy, when I charge him with first degree felony aggravated assault [32:22.600 --> 32:28.560] for acting in concert and collusion, I'm going to get their attention and then when I sue [32:28.560 --> 32:36.960] the Crapola out of them, the officers personally and individually and sue the state beyond [32:36.960 --> 32:43.600] its sovereign immunity because they used an automobile, we start winding their clocks [32:43.600 --> 32:50.240] a little bit, they'll get a little more respect and that's what this was all about and that's [32:50.240 --> 32:55.080] what I got from Ben is he lacked respect for us. [32:55.080 --> 32:59.760] Yeah and that's a big problem that I've seen is that they don't treat the respect as a [32:59.760 --> 33:05.720] two-way street because they're wearing the badge and the gun, it's all them and we got [33:05.720 --> 33:12.600] no say so in it but the lack of knowledge is you are a public servant, all right, don't [33:12.600 --> 33:19.080] approach me with attitude, approach me if nothing else as an equal, not a subordinate. [33:19.080 --> 33:25.800] Right, well see this goes to the training programs, okay, because you take a police [33:25.800 --> 33:33.280] officer who, you know, fresh clean slate, wants to do the right thing, clean in his [33:33.280 --> 33:39.480] heart, pure of heart, goes to this training program, listen to Officer Jack McClam, this [33:39.480 --> 33:47.800] has been going on since the 60s, 50s even, long before but they're trained to do this [33:47.800 --> 33:52.320] and so then when we implement Randy's techniques and we kick them in the butt to make them [33:52.320 --> 34:00.120] have to learn the hard way, agree it has to be done but I would like to see this a two-pronged [34:00.120 --> 34:06.000] approach at the least, we've got to get control of these training programs because if we get [34:06.000 --> 34:10.840] control of the training programs to train our police to actually be proper police officers, [34:10.840 --> 34:16.200] I really believe there's going to be a whole lot less of these kinds of problems because [34:16.200 --> 34:19.400] I believe a lot of our police really do want to do the right thing even though there are [34:19.400 --> 34:23.120] some that corrupt and then when they get out of line then we kick them in the butt like [34:23.120 --> 34:30.240] Randy says but man without getting control of the training programs, kicking every single [34:30.240 --> 34:35.000] one of them in the butt, it's going to be a long hard road. [34:35.000 --> 34:41.400] I don't think we'll have to, you know, a couple of good lawsuits, you know, if I get my complaints [34:41.400 --> 34:50.080] before the grand jury against high level DPS officials, the DPS is the best one because [34:50.080 --> 34:55.920] they're the agency of statewide jurisdiction and they pretty well set the tone for the [34:55.920 --> 35:02.920] rest of the state and of the DPS, I get the capital police, they're elite and I get to [35:02.920 --> 35:06.480] keep their behind so this is going to be a great case. [35:06.480 --> 35:10.640] Absolutely but Randy somebody still has to teach them how to do the right thing and act [35:10.640 --> 35:11.640] proper. [35:11.640 --> 35:12.640] I think, go ahead. [35:12.640 --> 35:17.640] Can I comment on the training aspect? [35:17.640 --> 35:18.640] Yes. [35:18.640 --> 35:25.600] I understand what you're saying Deborah about training is a good way to get there quickly [35:25.600 --> 35:32.440] but I guess I differ a little bit in that to me it seems that having a training program [35:32.440 --> 35:37.520] still has a middle man and I don't want to disregard that, you know, still obviously [35:37.520 --> 35:45.920] necessary but it tracks from really what all of our responsibilities are which is to know [35:45.920 --> 35:46.920] the law. [35:46.920 --> 35:51.920] The law is the bottom line, anything subsequent to that or downstream of that is someone's [35:51.920 --> 35:57.440] interpretation so it really takes away from individual responsibility and going back to [35:57.440 --> 36:03.920] how you started to show off two years ago from my memory or my understanding, you wanted [36:03.920 --> 36:09.280] to hit, well maybe it changed a little bit but I thought at the time you sort of wanted [36:09.280 --> 36:18.200] to hit the little guy and that's my thought too once you, whatever, bring criminal charges [36:18.200 --> 36:25.600] against the individual police officer who crosses the line or breaks the law himself, [36:25.600 --> 36:30.880] other people, other officers will say well wait a minute, that guy is going to jail, [36:30.880 --> 36:33.640] you know, I better find out what the real law is. [36:33.640 --> 36:38.240] I mean we've all worked in situations, I used to work for the city and you know my [36:38.240 --> 36:43.720] boss would tell me something and I'd go and I had enough or at least I think I had enough [36:43.720 --> 36:47.560] thought or knowledge or whatever to go look up the rules myself. [36:47.560 --> 36:52.280] I didn't trust what someone else was telling me and I still operate like that today and [36:52.280 --> 36:59.000] I wish, you know, everyone would do that because really when it gets down to the individual [36:59.000 --> 37:04.600] acting that's how we disseminate this across, you know, the whole land, sort of like ever [37:04.600 --> 37:11.640] your rainbow coalition, the reason the parks folks have so much trouble is because it's [37:11.640 --> 37:19.280] not one person getting a permit, it's everyone sort of acting on their own and when you have [37:19.280 --> 37:25.800] something widely distributed and decentralized like that, it has much more of an implementable [37:25.800 --> 37:34.240] and, well, implementable or it is much more results. [37:34.240 --> 37:42.480] So I guess all I'm trying to say is in my desired world each individual would use their [37:42.480 --> 37:49.000] own thought process as an individual, man or woman, look at the law themselves and make [37:49.000 --> 37:50.000] their own determination. [37:50.000 --> 37:55.440] Yes, use what you're given through training as a guide but still at the end of the day [37:55.440 --> 37:58.320] you yourself are responsible for upholding the law. [37:58.320 --> 38:03.880] You know, the Nuremberg trials, those guys supposedly were sent to jail or put to death [38:03.880 --> 38:12.560] or whatever because the byline that they gave of, well, my superiors told me that didn't [38:12.560 --> 38:13.560] fly. [38:13.560 --> 38:21.240] Right, just following orders and that never was really after the little guy but we have [38:21.240 --> 38:27.600] to go through the little guy to work our way up and as to all of us having to learn the [38:27.600 --> 38:36.800] law, that's not going to happen and I understand that, I'm here looking for Mitchell, you're [38:36.800 --> 38:42.000] why I'm on the air, maybe one in a, if we're lucky one in 500. [38:42.000 --> 38:45.640] And we're looking for Ben too, that's why we're on the air. [38:45.640 --> 38:54.560] Yeah, they actually called in, yeah and Eddie, I mean, I found Eddie and this is why I'm [38:54.560 --> 38:56.200] here, we get a lot of people calling. [38:56.200 --> 38:57.800] Yeah, we're stacking up with the college. [38:57.800 --> 38:58.800] We're really cranking up. [38:58.800 --> 39:04.640] Okay, Nick, I just have one simple point to make that had nothing to do with this other [39:04.640 --> 39:11.920] stuff and this is a real one here but going back to Dr. Delvitte before and his sort of [39:11.920 --> 39:19.320] questioning where it comes in about why you are forced or not forced to accept a Federal [39:19.320 --> 39:23.680] Reserve Note, if you look and I don't know the whole law behind it but on the dollar [39:23.680 --> 39:29.080] bill it says this note is legal tender for all debts public and private and just from [39:29.080 --> 39:35.560] a wordsmithing point of view, all it says there is for all debts and in my understanding, [39:35.560 --> 39:40.720] you know, I'm not an economist or have training in this or whatever but you don't incur a [39:40.720 --> 39:47.400] debt until you agree to pay for something in the future so an immediate transaction [39:47.400 --> 39:55.600] does not constitute a debt having occurred yet so if I trade you my lemonade for your, [39:55.600 --> 40:02.600] you know, your chicken egg or something and I don't give you my lemonade until you give [40:02.600 --> 40:07.200] me your chicken egg then there is no debt. [40:07.200 --> 40:13.320] I mean, the transaction happens and that's the end of it so if I don't engage in that [40:13.320 --> 40:19.400] transaction until you give me what I want, no debt was ever created so the dollar bill [40:19.400 --> 40:21.400] never enters into that. [40:21.400 --> 40:24.320] Good point, Mitchell. [40:24.320 --> 40:25.320] Very good point. [40:25.320 --> 40:28.880] All right, on that note, I'll call out. [40:28.880 --> 40:35.840] I'm thinking that when the little girl puts the lemonade in your hand, the debt is created. [40:35.840 --> 40:41.800] Well how about this, she don't put it in your hand until you give her something else first. [40:41.800 --> 40:46.240] Randy, when we exchange something, I give you something with my right hand and take [40:46.240 --> 40:48.680] something with my left hand, that's the end of it. [40:48.680 --> 40:49.680] There's no debt. [40:49.680 --> 40:58.400] There's no future option there so to me that's something that I don't know. [40:58.400 --> 41:05.920] I think what we were trying to get to is if you and I agree to a trade, we can agree to [41:05.920 --> 41:13.320] trade anything we want to and like I said, I haven't looked this up but I'm relatively [41:13.320 --> 41:16.000] certain this is going to be the case. [41:16.000 --> 41:24.720] If you're operating a business that deals with the general public and not just one private [41:24.720 --> 41:31.440] person in their backyard with another private person but if you do business with the general [41:31.440 --> 41:42.800] public and someone from the general public wants to use these legal tender notes in the [41:42.800 --> 41:48.960] form of a public trade that you have to take them. [41:48.960 --> 41:50.240] Well that's the question of the hour. [41:50.240 --> 41:55.240] That's why I was researching for an hour and a half before we got on the line with Officer [41:55.240 --> 42:01.320] Ben and it's very vague because this battle over what the definition of legal tender [42:01.320 --> 42:04.240] actually is and our vendors require to take it. [42:04.240 --> 42:05.720] That's been going on since the 1800s. [42:05.720 --> 42:11.560] I mean the Supreme Court has ruled one way and then the other so it requires more research [42:11.560 --> 42:19.400] but I think Mitchell has got some really strong insight here. [42:19.400 --> 42:22.840] But Mitchell, he's the one we're looking for. [42:22.840 --> 42:27.040] Mitchell, most people are never going to learn the law and that's all there is to it and [42:27.040 --> 42:29.680] we don't need them all to. [42:29.680 --> 42:32.120] So it doesn't have to keep these guys in the behind. [42:32.120 --> 42:33.120] There's a few others. [42:33.120 --> 42:36.600] I think there's a point I was trying to make about Ben's comment too. [42:36.600 --> 42:42.440] There's a natural sort of governance there that if we all start to sort of act that way [42:42.440 --> 42:49.640] and try to learn the law and take the actions that come from it, over time there could be [42:49.640 --> 42:55.960] a gradual reduction in the complication of these laws and actually have them simpler [42:55.960 --> 43:02.760] and not have, you know, 5,000 pages of some tax code that's created that way because it [43:02.760 --> 43:03.760] breaks the law. [43:03.760 --> 43:10.520] So what I'm saying is again when you go in and you just parse out one part and say okay [43:10.520 --> 43:17.200] I'm just going to address this, it doesn't sort of address how the whole system acts. [43:17.200 --> 43:24.920] The natural action is yeah if people do start following the law or whatever, the consequence [43:24.920 --> 43:31.720] of that could very likely be in my opinion a reduction in the number of laws, you know, [43:31.720 --> 43:36.400] but first unconstitutional laws and then just absurd laws. [43:36.400 --> 43:38.400] I agree. [43:38.400 --> 43:43.560] Well we hope and pray society will head in that direction. [43:43.560 --> 43:49.000] We want those of us who have that mindset, we need to teach others that. [43:49.000 --> 43:53.760] Okay, Mitchell we need to let you go because we have like a full board of callers. [43:53.760 --> 43:57.040] Thanks guys, well don't stay up too late. [43:57.040 --> 44:01.920] Okay, well we'll stay up as late as we need to. [44:01.920 --> 44:03.920] Liberty doesn't sleep. [44:03.920 --> 44:10.000] Okay I want to take another new caller, first time caller, this is Trevor from Texas. [44:10.000 --> 44:13.280] Trevor, thank you for calling in, thank you for holding. [44:13.280 --> 44:18.280] What's on your mind tonight? [44:18.280 --> 44:23.880] Trevor? [44:23.880 --> 44:26.320] That'll suck, hold this line and then it cuts off. [44:26.320 --> 44:27.320] Come on Trevor. [44:27.320 --> 44:28.320] Hi, I'm here. [44:28.320 --> 44:33.520] Oh he's there, okay great, yay, what's on your mind? [44:33.520 --> 44:40.200] Well you were talking about the training that officers receive, well there is a conscious [44:40.200 --> 44:47.280] and coherently formulated training program to make BPS officers obnoxious. [44:47.280 --> 44:52.680] I've had a number of dealings with them and they admit it, as many times as I've called [44:52.680 --> 45:00.680] up to complain, I've been told that the officer is, well he's on the track of something big, [45:00.680 --> 45:05.080] he's trying to see if maybe my story doesn't stick together and I say I'm not telling a [45:05.080 --> 45:09.800] story, I'm getting written up because I have a burned out lightbulb. [45:09.800 --> 45:15.640] They claim that the officers on the site lie and they claim that they're not doing anything [45:15.640 --> 45:19.760] but they use the same code word though, I say I'm just being cordial, okay, during my [45:19.760 --> 45:25.880] last little encounter, I don't know if you know the geography of Travis County, I live [45:25.880 --> 45:30.480] in Austin, I was visiting a friend in Round Rock and the guy says is this address correct? [45:30.480 --> 45:34.320] Well it's on my driver's license isn't it and I said yes it is, well what are you doing [45:34.320 --> 45:36.200] so far north? [45:36.200 --> 45:39.320] How stupid can you get? [45:39.320 --> 45:42.560] And I ask him what that has to do with anything and he says well he could be coming from a [45:42.560 --> 45:48.280] crack house and here's the problem that Ben and some other officers have, if a civilian [45:48.280 --> 45:54.080] called me a crackhead, I'd take a four pound hammer and beat his face in, I'd slap some [45:54.080 --> 45:55.080] manners into him. [45:55.080 --> 45:59.400] Okay well wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on Trevor, hold on, hold [45:59.400 --> 46:07.960] on, this kind of escalation is what the bad guys want so that they can have an excuse [46:07.960 --> 46:14.760] to beat us down and put us under the jail so to speak and I agree that there has got [46:14.760 --> 46:20.160] to be a very specific training program, I know there is because the feds are federalizing [46:20.160 --> 46:28.760] our police, okay but we can't fall into the trap, okay, we have to realize that they are [46:28.760 --> 46:34.960] in a certain mindset and we need to rise above that, okay and try to do something about it [46:34.960 --> 46:35.960] and not escalate. [46:35.960 --> 46:43.760] I think he was just saying that if an ordinary person had done that he would really be upset [46:43.760 --> 46:51.840] and well I agree, I believe they trained them to be this way, the DPS very deliberately [46:51.840 --> 46:59.360] moves their officers to a place away from their hometown, away from where they are known, [46:59.360 --> 47:03.440] they don't want them to be around where people know them, they don't want them to be officer [47:03.440 --> 47:06.040] friendly, they want them to be obnoxious. [47:06.040 --> 47:12.720] Okay Trevor, do you have any, what is your take on the training program, do you have? [47:12.720 --> 47:20.040] You need to not inculcate the idea that they can speak to the people that employ them in [47:20.040 --> 47:25.720] any fashion they please, I told them if you didn't have a gun, a club, a badge and a radio [47:25.720 --> 47:33.160] to ask for help, I would correct your behavior toot sweet but you have to stand there and [47:33.160 --> 47:37.720] take verbal abuse and when you call in to complain you're told, well I reviewed the [47:37.720 --> 47:41.840] tape, the officer was inside the department guidelines, well they draw the department [47:41.840 --> 47:47.160] guidelines to include anything up to it, I guess pistol whipping me, well I'm sorry. [47:47.160 --> 47:52.120] They smashed my face into a stone wall back in February and threw me in jail and when [47:52.120 --> 47:58.280] I called the major he said he was aware of what went on and he felt his officers acted [47:58.280 --> 48:00.960] in accordance with policy. [48:00.960 --> 48:08.280] I said well thank you very much, now I will charge him with the first degree felony aggravated [48:08.280 --> 48:12.200] assault and criminal conspiracy to commit. [48:12.200 --> 48:13.760] Because it's policy. [48:13.760 --> 48:17.720] That's policy, it's conspiracy. [48:17.720 --> 48:20.400] Jerk. [48:20.400 --> 48:24.840] Thank you very much, I had his lieutenant, I called the lieutenant and I said my name [48:24.840 --> 48:32.840] is Ralph Kelton and I was arrested at the secretary of state building, one of your officers. [48:32.840 --> 48:39.680] Apparently someone sent a sergeant down there to demonstrate to his officers how to deal [48:39.680 --> 48:44.720] with someone who exercises their first amendment right by beating the hell out of them and [48:44.720 --> 48:48.920] throwing them in jail, did you send him down there to do that? [48:48.920 --> 48:54.240] And I guess I caught him off guard because he said well I guess I did. [48:54.240 --> 49:02.360] I said oh well thank you very much, I think I'm done with you, click and I got them both [49:02.360 --> 49:04.360] recorded. [49:04.360 --> 49:09.960] So he admitted that he sent the officer down there to beat the hell out of me. [49:09.960 --> 49:12.960] How dumb is that? [49:12.960 --> 49:17.560] Okay look, look I want to say something here okay and I want to go back to what officer [49:17.560 --> 49:24.560] Ben was saying because I agree and this is something that I feel that we have surmised [49:24.560 --> 49:25.560] before. [49:25.560 --> 49:29.720] Certain types of personalities are going to be attracted to law enforcement, you're going [49:29.720 --> 49:38.920] to have some that take the high road, that want to serve and protect okay and think these [49:38.920 --> 49:44.880] things through, you're going to have some that are the bullies in the high school parking [49:44.880 --> 49:51.480] lot type and that get off on the power and the authority and you're never going to get [49:51.480 --> 49:56.120] around that okay, I believe that, you're never going to get around that all right. [49:56.120 --> 50:04.320] But I do believe that we need to appeal to, we can appeal to human nature and I really [50:04.320 --> 50:09.480] feel that these training programs, we've got to investigate these training programs and [50:09.480 --> 50:15.880] get a hold of it because if you've got training programs where the training program curriculum [50:15.880 --> 50:25.680] is appealing to the dark side so to speak, the bully side, the authoritarian side etc. [50:25.680 --> 50:30.840] and then that's what's going to happen all right, if you have a training program that's [50:30.840 --> 50:37.080] going to try to enlighten these individuals to do the right thing, well then it's going [50:37.080 --> 50:48.360] to head in that direction too okay, so I believe that we can guide the situation, it's not [50:48.360 --> 50:54.400] going to just be a complete and total crapshoot okay, it's like teaching children or it's [50:54.400 --> 51:00.160] like curriculum in the school, we can't okay, you can't just let kids grow up all by themselves [51:00.160 --> 51:05.320] completely undisciplined and if they do something you don't want them to do, just kick them [51:05.320 --> 51:14.160] in the butt or whatever discipline them, there has to be a proactive teaching mechanism in [51:14.160 --> 51:21.320] addition to the discipline all right, we've got to get a hold of these training programs [51:21.320 --> 51:27.080] to try to appeal to these people, these people's higher side and like Ben was saying, there's [51:27.080 --> 51:30.920] always going to be the people who are like the bully in the high school parking lot but [51:30.920 --> 51:39.240] if they're trained to go that direction then we're in for big problems and we've got to [51:39.240 --> 51:44.640] try to rise above that and not fall into that trap ourselves, you know like with the police [51:44.640 --> 51:50.600] riots okay, things that you're supposed to do when it looks like there's a police riot [51:50.600 --> 51:58.720] or a police riot that's about to happen, you know be calm, sit down, don't instigate, don't [51:58.720 --> 52:07.960] try to calm others down, sing a song, stuff like that, don't give them any reason to beat [52:07.960 --> 52:14.640] you up, this goes to humility okay, because the escalation and the rise to anger has to [52:14.640 --> 52:21.200] do with the ego okay and if they're trained to push that envelope and then it pushes our [52:21.200 --> 52:25.520] envelope and then it just gets out of control, guess who's going to win, you know who's going [52:25.520 --> 52:30.560] to win and it ain't going to be us, not in that situation, all right so we just have [52:30.560 --> 52:37.400] to try to breathe, be calm, exercise some humility, rise above the situation and get [52:37.400 --> 52:42.160] a hold of these training programs and if it don't work on a case by case basis, kick them [52:42.160 --> 52:46.920] in the butt with Randy's technique, that's just the way I see it, I don't know, what [52:46.920 --> 52:47.920] do y'all say? [52:47.920 --> 52:48.920] Guys? [52:48.920 --> 52:49.920] Am I still on? [52:49.920 --> 52:50.920] Yes, go ahead. [52:50.920 --> 52:58.720] Okay, well when I called in to complain, you know, we went through this whole thing with [52:58.720 --> 53:05.520] the first officer that I spoke to before he quit, before he retired, that lost the report [53:05.520 --> 53:11.000] and I said well I'd like a copy of the film, the video of the interview and then well gosh [53:11.000 --> 53:14.760] we don't seem to be able to find that, you know, evidence is funny stuff, it just comes [53:14.760 --> 53:23.240] and it goes and the second guy I talked to is Major Vasquez who succeeded the really, [53:23.240 --> 53:28.520] really grossly obnoxious Richard Dalvon and was saying well I'd have to look at the tape [53:28.520 --> 53:33.440] to see how he was doing it, you know maybe how he was saying it, you know and I said [53:33.440 --> 53:40.000] there's no nice way to call someone crackhead, it's just like there's no nice way to suggest [53:40.000 --> 53:44.120] that his wife goes down to the truck stop and turns tricks, there's some things that [53:44.120 --> 53:45.120] are intrinsically offensive. [53:45.120 --> 53:46.120] What? [53:46.120 --> 53:47.120] I'm going again. [53:47.120 --> 53:52.120] I like the way you put that. [53:52.120 --> 54:02.320] Well, yeah, I just said there's no nice way to insult someone and verbally abuse them, [54:02.320 --> 54:07.240] it's not a matter of tone, which can be pretty offensive, it's a matter of content, then [54:07.240 --> 54:13.640] he said well you could have been drinking schnapps, there's cinnamon on your breath [54:13.640 --> 54:18.720] and I said well I'm chewing all-toys gum, let's go take a breathalyzer and he goes well [54:18.720 --> 54:24.440] I don't know, maybe you think you need to do that and I said yeah, let's go give me [54:24.440 --> 54:29.400] a breathalyzer and of course like all slithering cowards and bullies he folds what his bluff [54:29.400 --> 54:34.320] gets called, we didn't go get me a breathalyzer, then he asked me if I've ever been arrested [54:34.320 --> 54:41.160] before and I said being arrested for now and he said well that's up to you and I said [54:41.160 --> 54:45.880] well what came up on the rather elaborate computer system that you have in the front [54:45.880 --> 54:48.360] seat of your unit, do I have any outstanding warrants? [54:48.360 --> 54:52.480] Well I'm asking you, I'm just trying to be cordial with you again, I'm used to the [54:52.480 --> 54:57.440] key word and I said okay you said arrested before, what am I being arrested for now? [54:57.440 --> 55:02.320] And it took after 10 minutes, well you're not being arrested, well the use of the word [55:02.320 --> 55:08.200] before implies a previous occurrence of a present incident, now I said what you mean [55:08.200 --> 55:13.480] is have I ever been arrested in my life, I said even if I have still what, I don't have [55:13.480 --> 55:17.640] any outstanding warrants which I know for a fact and which your computer screen will [55:17.640 --> 55:20.960] reveal to you, these people can't even speak English. [55:20.960 --> 55:28.240] Okay, okay wait a minute, hold on, I want to pause here, this goes to one of Randy's [55:28.240 --> 55:38.080] primary areas of study of psychology, we have to realize these people are being trained [55:38.080 --> 55:48.800] to escalate, they are specifically intentionally trying to escalate the situation to get us [55:48.800 --> 55:56.080] to react so that they will be able to have a reason to come down on us like a ton of [55:56.080 --> 56:02.520] bricks and arrest us and run us through the booking process because of the financial gain [56:02.520 --> 56:08.040] of the system and the police I think nine times out of ten don't even realize that that's [56:08.040 --> 56:13.840] what they're doing, that's just what they're trained to do, okay, we've got to find a way [56:13.840 --> 56:22.920] to not get wrapped up in that cycle, okay, Randy's suggestions when a person is in that [56:22.920 --> 56:32.240] situation and you can see that the police is instigating, how do you back off, how do [56:32.240 --> 56:42.040] you swallow your pride, how do you defuse the situation for the sake of the better, [56:42.040 --> 56:43.920] you know, of everyone involved? [56:43.920 --> 56:48.520] Well I didn't defuse the situation to start with, I'm being perfectly courteous and I'm [56:48.520 --> 56:56.080] being verbally abused and whenever I take offense with the way I'm being treated, his [56:56.080 --> 56:57.600] attitude steps up. [56:57.600 --> 57:02.320] I know, that's what I mean, I didn't say that, I wasn't trying to imply that you were [57:02.320 --> 57:05.000] doing anything wrong, Trevor, I was just... [57:05.000 --> 57:09.720] Well the point is, if you're familiar with the geography of Central Texas, Round Rock [57:09.720 --> 57:16.360] is basically a suburb of Austin, people commute between Austin, Pflugerville, Round Rock, [57:16.360 --> 57:21.720] Georgetown, Gripping Springs, I mean any number of satellite communities and escalating a [57:21.720 --> 57:29.280] 12 minute trip into probable cause for a trip to a crack house is just mind bogglingly stupid [57:29.280 --> 57:34.680] and I wasn't put on this earth to provide amusement for nincompoops in ridiculous hats. [57:34.680 --> 57:39.880] Little Buckaroo has plenty of real crimes to apply his attention to should he choose [57:39.880 --> 57:47.200] to do so and as I pointed out on the phone, I see the Governor's Mansion burned down recently, [57:47.200 --> 57:52.760] it's now black and white, it's a burned out shell, this is part of our state and national [57:52.760 --> 58:00.440] patrimony, it's the heritage from the founding of the republic of and then the state of Texas [58:00.440 --> 58:06.680] and they can't keep a guy who was caught on camera throwing a Molotov cocktail into it [58:06.680 --> 58:10.800] from burning it, from gutting it. [58:10.800 --> 58:15.760] They're in charge of it, they're now soliciting money from the public to rebuild the Governor's [58:15.760 --> 58:22.400] Mansion, I say, well great, why don't we take it out of DPS retirement, huh? [58:22.400 --> 58:23.400] That's a good idea. [58:23.400 --> 58:30.480] It's outrageous, I say, what were you doing that you can't stop someone, it's a joke, [58:30.480 --> 58:37.800] a guy with a Molotov cocktail, they just slide over it. [58:37.800 --> 58:43.240] Well, have you been listening to our show long? [58:43.240 --> 58:50.760] Yeah, I don't catch every episode, it's been a long time, a couple of years, year and a [58:50.760 --> 58:51.760] half. [58:51.760 --> 58:55.200] Then you understand that we're working at going after them. [58:55.200 --> 58:56.200] Yeah. [58:56.200 --> 59:00.480] And everything I'm about is adjusting their attitude. [59:00.480 --> 59:06.600] We're round the clock back to that mutual respect thing they lack. [59:06.600 --> 59:07.600] Exactly. [59:07.600 --> 59:11.160] I like your use of language. [59:11.160 --> 59:15.080] Well, I said, are you not required to treat the public courteously? [59:15.080 --> 59:16.080] Why, yes. [59:16.080 --> 59:21.680] Okay, how does calling someone a crackhead fit into that rubric? [59:21.680 --> 59:28.120] There's no polite way to do certain things, but I asked him, okay, do I look like a crackhead? [59:28.120 --> 59:32.640] Of course, he gets this little smirk and goes, I wouldn't know what a crackhead looks like. [59:32.640 --> 59:36.920] I said, well, I'm a moderately well-read civilian, for instance, am I underweight? [59:36.920 --> 59:37.920] I'm not. [59:37.920 --> 59:39.920] Do I have an ashy, solid complexion? [59:39.920 --> 59:40.920] No, I don't. [59:40.920 --> 59:41.920] Are my cheeks sunken? [59:41.920 --> 59:42.920] No, they're not. [59:42.920 --> 59:47.160] Are my eyes sunken and deeply shadowed or surrounded by black areas? [59:47.160 --> 59:48.160] No, they don't. [59:48.160 --> 59:49.840] Do the crackhead and raccoon look? [59:49.840 --> 59:50.840] No, they are not. [59:50.840 --> 59:52.320] Do I have a meth mouth? [59:52.320 --> 59:54.320] No, my chops are quite healthy. [59:54.320 --> 59:55.320] Okay. [59:55.320 --> 59:58.560] I said, well, I didn't say you had to be using the crack. [59:58.560 --> 01:00:00.360] I said, oh, so what am I? [01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:03.160] I could be coming from a crack house where I don't smoke anything. [01:00:03.160 --> 01:00:06.160] Am I a crack tourist? [01:00:06.160 --> 01:00:15.320] The thing is, if he were a jerk on the street, I would have adjusted his attitude or walked [01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:19.320] off, but I can't because I don't want to be shot in the back. [01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:22.520] I had him get away with it. [01:00:22.520 --> 01:00:23.520] Yes. [01:00:23.520 --> 01:00:26.760] What a little flashlight. [01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:29.560] You really think that they would shoot you in the back? [01:00:29.560 --> 01:00:30.560] Of course. [01:00:30.560 --> 01:00:31.560] Of course. [01:00:31.560 --> 01:00:36.880] They've developed this culture of impunity where the guy says, well, he's inside department [01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:37.880] guidelines. [01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:38.880] I said, okay. [01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:40.240] I had a guy screaming at me one night. [01:00:40.240 --> 01:00:42.320] I can ask you anything I want. [01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:46.200] Later on, the guy said, I was told... Well, I reviewed the film. [01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:47.200] I don't think he was screaming. [01:00:47.200 --> 01:00:49.240] I said, I was three feet from him. [01:00:49.240 --> 01:00:50.240] He was screaming. [01:00:50.240 --> 01:00:51.240] I said, too. [01:00:51.240 --> 01:00:54.200] Can he ask me about my religious ideas? [01:00:54.200 --> 01:00:55.480] Well, certainly not. [01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:56.480] Okay. [01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:58.720] He can't ask me anything. [01:00:58.720 --> 01:01:00.720] Can he? [01:01:00.720 --> 01:01:07.440] Once again, I have a stack of warnings because my car is old enough to vote and I have light [01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:08.440] bulbs burnt out. [01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:10.800] The thing is, I don't have a huge roster. [01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:12.280] I have no tickets. [01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:16.080] I have no tickets for harming anybody. [01:01:16.080 --> 01:01:19.000] I have no tickets for actual law breaking. [01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:28.120] I have a stack of warnings, but they use each warning or any stop as a... This is why Daryl [01:01:28.120 --> 01:01:33.240] Gates is burning in Dante's hell for being proactive. [01:01:33.240 --> 01:01:39.000] I was told by the one guy, he said, I don't want to answer my questions, and I said, because [01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:40.000] they're totally pointless. [01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:43.000] They have no practical application, and they can't be verified. [01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:48.360] I'm just trying to be, once again, cordial, and you, you're paranoid. [01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:51.560] Are you a licensed psychotherapist? [01:01:51.560 --> 01:01:53.880] I venture to say that you are not. [01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:56.920] Have you detected evidence of delusions of persecution? [01:01:56.920 --> 01:01:59.760] I'm sure any resistance to you is a delusion of persecution. [01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:00.760] How about retrospective falsification? [01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:01.760] He says, huh? [01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:08.560] Gee, I guess you don't know much about paranoia, do you? [01:02:08.560 --> 01:02:13.440] You start talking to these clowns about a burned out light bulb, and it never ends until [01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:14.440] they've had their fun. [01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:18.320] This is why I pay them. [01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:19.520] They work for me. [01:02:19.520 --> 01:02:20.520] I don't work for them. [01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:25.080] I've been told, he's a business talk to an officer that way, and I said, employers frequently [01:02:25.080 --> 01:02:28.360] talk to employees in a manner that the employees find offensive. [01:02:28.360 --> 01:02:31.600] If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. [01:02:31.600 --> 01:02:35.240] He looked at me and he said, yeah, you work for me. [01:02:35.240 --> 01:02:36.240] I'm your boss. [01:02:36.240 --> 01:02:39.840] The same way I'm Rick Parrott's boss. [01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:42.360] I was George Bush's boss. [01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:44.120] I'm Nancy Pelosi's boss. [01:02:44.120 --> 01:02:45.120] I'm a citizen. [01:02:45.120 --> 01:02:48.760] Citizens have an expectation of decent treatment. [01:02:48.760 --> 01:03:02.920] This is what I address in my writ is that we have an expectation of fair treatment, [01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:10.280] and most everything they do, at least from the advice of the prosecutor, is designed [01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:18.040] to interrupt our expectation of fair treatment, to give us the feeling that we can get no [01:03:18.040 --> 01:03:25.600] justice here, that the only thing we can rationally and reasonably do is accept the deal when [01:03:25.600 --> 01:03:26.600] it comes. [01:03:26.600 --> 01:03:27.600] It ain't necessarily so. [01:03:27.600 --> 01:03:42.600] I'm sure that you've been through this probably many more times than I have. [01:03:42.600 --> 01:03:49.960] I've been asked, like the last time they were rationing up to call me for jury duty, I was [01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:55.160] asked, sir, how do you feel that the legal system develops fair and just verdicts all [01:03:55.160 --> 01:03:56.160] and most of the time? [01:03:56.160 --> 01:04:01.280] I just looked at him and he said, sir, and I said, if you hit 40 percent, I'd be astonished. [01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:05.200] He said, well, sir, do you have any grounds for saying that? [01:04:05.200 --> 01:04:06.200] I said, okay. [01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:09.200] Does the word tulia ring any bells? [01:04:09.200 --> 01:04:20.840] You get a bunch of folks who can't afford, you know, Roy Minton, they can't afford Baker [01:04:20.840 --> 01:04:21.840] and Bottes. [01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:25.560] You tell them that they're as good as gone and that the best thing they can do is make [01:04:25.560 --> 01:04:31.000] a deal, so they sign off on ridiculous sentences to keep from getting, you know, a surrealistic [01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:32.000] sentence. [01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:37.720] Then, ultimately, you find the whole house of cards falls apart, but, you know, two digits [01:04:37.720 --> 01:04:40.640] worth of people have been locked up for nothing. [01:04:40.640 --> 01:04:46.600] You know, what's his name, Terry McEachern, the little tyrant behind all that? [01:04:46.600 --> 01:04:53.240] You know, he should be in the walls unit and he's not, especially the dimwit sheriff who [01:04:53.240 --> 01:04:59.960] hired this, you know, obviously, you know, radically dangerous and unqualified, you know, [01:04:59.960 --> 01:05:00.960] undercover cop. [01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:06.280] And then you wonder why, and then you keep hearing, why do people have so much contempt [01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:07.280] for the legal system? [01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:11.120] I don't know, the actions of judges and lawyers, could that be it? [01:05:11.120 --> 01:05:18.040] Well, I opt for the lawyers, I mean, for the judges, they're the ones I'm after, but we [01:05:18.040 --> 01:05:21.000] really need to move on, we got a lot of callers. [01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.840] Who's running the asylum, best question. [01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:27.720] Oh, speed your mighty work. [01:05:27.720 --> 01:05:30.720] And thank you for calling, Trevor, I like your use of language. [01:05:30.720 --> 01:05:33.720] Thank you for, yes, Trevor, yes. [01:05:33.720 --> 01:05:36.120] Well, continue to continue. [01:05:36.120 --> 01:05:40.720] I appreciate your spirit. [01:05:40.720 --> 01:05:42.200] Thank you so much for calling in. [01:05:42.200 --> 01:05:45.200] Take care of yourself. [01:05:45.200 --> 01:05:48.200] Okay, you as well. [01:05:48.200 --> 01:05:56.000] Before I go to the next caller, I just want to make a quick comment that I see not only [01:05:56.000 --> 01:06:01.500] us as the victims here, but the police as well. [01:06:01.500 --> 01:06:11.240] From what Ben was saying, and from what we all can see, you get these certain people [01:06:11.240 --> 01:06:17.920] who are probably insecure, the bully in the parking lot mentality, the people who are [01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:21.980] running these training programs prey on that. [01:06:21.980 --> 01:06:25.260] They want to see the escalation. [01:06:25.260 --> 01:06:29.600] They want to see the cops escalating against us and us escalating back. [01:06:29.600 --> 01:06:35.080] They want to see this clash so that more and more people get run through the jailing system [01:06:35.080 --> 01:06:38.440] so that they can make the money. [01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:44.640] And honestly, I see the police being frustrated with this. [01:06:44.640 --> 01:06:48.000] They know they don't like it. [01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:51.200] They know they want real respect. [01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:57.360] They don't know how to get real respect from us or from others, so they have to put on [01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:05.640] this front and with the badge and the gun and everything else and force it to forcibly [01:07:05.640 --> 01:07:13.560] take it from us, but I know deep inside that's not what they really want, okay? [01:07:13.560 --> 01:07:15.960] It just can't be. [01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:19.400] It just can't be. [01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:24.320] We've got to find a way to break through these psychological barriers, and we're not going [01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:25.320] to do it on the street. [01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:27.800] We're not going to do it in the heat of anger. [01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:31.480] We've got to take control of these training programs, and I'm telling you, the feds have [01:07:31.480 --> 01:07:37.160] infiltrated these training programs and the UN as well, okay? [01:07:37.160 --> 01:07:40.640] It's like I almost feel sorry for these people, all right? [01:07:40.640 --> 01:07:47.920] I mean, I respect them on a human level, but it really is sad because the bad guys are [01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:49.520] using the police against us. [01:07:49.520 --> 01:07:53.040] They're using us against the police, and nobody wins here. [01:07:53.040 --> 01:07:54.400] The cops don't win. [01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:55.400] We don't win. [01:07:55.400 --> 01:07:56.400] Who wins? [01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:01.960] The people who win are the people that are making all the money off of all of it, okay? [01:08:01.960 --> 01:08:04.880] We've got to see deeper into this, all right? [01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:05.880] Let's move on. [01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:07.920] We're going to go to Scott in Connecticut. [01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:09.920] Scott, thanks for calling in. [01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:12.920] What's on your mind tonight? [01:08:12.920 --> 01:08:18.680] Scott, okay. [01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:21.920] We're going to go to Mike in Texas. [01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:24.960] Mike, thanks for calling in. [01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:25.960] What's on your mind tonight? [01:08:25.960 --> 01:08:26.960] Hey. [01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:30.960] Then we're going to go to Dan, real in Connecticut, by the way. [01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:33.960] Go ahead, Mike. [01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:34.960] Okay. [01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:39.000] Man, this has been a great show. [01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:49.800] Some things have occurred to me just from listening, especially listening to the police [01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:56.640] officer ban. [01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:06.680] Police officers are there for enforcement, law enforcement. [01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:12.120] I just had a break-in in my studio a couple of weeks ago. [01:09:12.120 --> 01:09:18.920] Police officers come over, investigate, and nothing really gets done because the crime's [01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:21.360] already been committed. [01:09:21.360 --> 01:09:32.880] Who's in charge of preventing crimes? [01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.800] The way I see it, it's the people. [01:09:35.800 --> 01:09:39.200] The people are in charge of preventing the crimes. [01:09:39.200 --> 01:09:49.320] If we were doing our jobs, we wouldn't need that many police officers on the street. [01:09:49.320 --> 01:09:54.920] Officer Ben could bring as many people to the magistrate as he wanted to, as many as [01:09:54.920 --> 01:10:05.160] he could round up in one night, because there just wouldn't be that many people being arrested. [01:10:05.160 --> 01:10:19.240] Also, statistics on violent crimes, from what I understand, really, most of the people in [01:10:19.240 --> 01:10:25.400] jail and in prison are there for non-violent crimes. [01:10:25.400 --> 01:10:28.400] Absolutely. [01:10:28.400 --> 01:10:35.120] That's what's crazy about the whole mess. [01:10:35.120 --> 01:10:38.000] It's just a big money-making scheme. [01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:45.680] I know that a good portion of the police officers out there, a good portion of them really know [01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:51.040] that, but I think there's a lot of them out there that don't realize it. [01:10:51.040 --> 01:10:57.520] It's people like Ben who don't get that. [01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:05.040] They don't get it that they're here to make money for the state. [01:11:05.040 --> 01:11:06.600] That's it. [01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:10.800] That's what they're there for, law enforcement. [01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:14.720] You can't enforce a law until it's been broken. [01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:22.440] No, in my neighborhood here in Houston, a couple of months ago, some guys walked into [01:11:22.440 --> 01:11:30.440] a restaurant and just robbed everybody there at gunpoint. [01:11:30.440 --> 01:11:40.560] My question is, if you walk into a restaurant and you know everybody in that place, every [01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:49.240] man and woman in that place, as well as the employees and the restaurant owner, is armed, [01:11:49.240 --> 01:11:55.960] are you going to try to pull something like that? [01:11:55.960 --> 01:12:00.520] That depends upon the IQ available, just as an example. [01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:06.560] When I was living in Colorado, working up there, there were, and this is not a racial [01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:12.920] slur of any kind, but it is a fact, two black men walked into a gun show in... [01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:13.920] Eddie? [01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:18.920] One of those guys is listening to the show. [01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:23.920] Hold on, hold on, I'm going to get him back up. [01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:34.200] Hey, also, I wanted to mention to you, Debra, you've been checking out Alex Jones, and I [01:12:34.200 --> 01:12:41.120] know you've looked into the MIAC report and all that, ADL, I wonder if that's who's running [01:12:41.120 --> 01:12:43.120] the training program. [01:12:43.120 --> 01:12:44.120] ABL. [01:12:44.120 --> 01:12:46.120] The ADL. [01:12:46.120 --> 01:12:49.120] Anti-defamation league. [01:12:49.120 --> 01:12:51.280] No, no. [01:12:51.280 --> 01:12:54.720] These are private companies. [01:12:54.720 --> 01:13:00.240] You have criminal justice programs in college, it's a two-year college course, and then you [01:13:00.240 --> 01:13:05.360] have private companies that contract to do the training, but the state authorizes the [01:13:05.360 --> 01:13:06.360] training. [01:13:06.360 --> 01:13:14.760] Yeah, well, we really need to look into that, but Mike, I wouldn't... I don't know if it's [01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:15.760] specifically the ADL. [01:13:15.760 --> 01:13:25.480] The ADL is just a branch of a larger scheme, but I definitely know there is federalization [01:13:25.480 --> 01:13:31.160] of our local police, and ultimately, this is all coming down from the UN, this is all [01:13:31.160 --> 01:13:38.200] coming down from an insistence on global government, and exactly who all... I mean, the ADL, they're [01:13:38.200 --> 01:13:40.680] just a pawn as well. [01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:50.960] Well, yeah, but I know, but I mean, you could probably directly... I bet if we all got [01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:55.960] together and did the research, we could probably tie it all to... [01:13:55.960 --> 01:13:58.720] We need to find out the exact statutes... [01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:02.200] If we do, then we know it's got to be... [01:14:02.200 --> 01:14:07.240] We need to find out the exact statutes that fund these training programs, and not just [01:14:07.240 --> 01:14:11.160] the police academy, but whatever other training programs that they go through. [01:14:11.160 --> 01:14:17.520] All right, we need to find out the statutes that fund it, who pushed the bills for the [01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:26.800] funding, who appointed the teachers, who sets the curriculum, what the background is, try [01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:33.520] to match up the curriculum with other curriculum programs and agendas of the UN and the feds [01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:34.960] and all this kind of thing. [01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:37.680] We all need to get on this. [01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:38.680] Absolutely. [01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:44.160] I'm glad that you brought that up, because it didn't really occur to me. [01:14:44.160 --> 01:14:46.200] The police are being trained. [01:14:46.200 --> 01:14:54.320] I am one of those people who believe... I talk to cops, and I'm one of those people [01:14:54.320 --> 01:14:59.280] who believe that really most of the cops out there, they don't want to do... They want [01:14:59.280 --> 01:15:01.320] to serve the public. [01:15:01.320 --> 01:15:07.280] They want to hold people accountable for crimes. [01:15:07.280 --> 01:15:11.920] I think most of them really do want to do the right thing. [01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:12.920] Right. [01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:15.080] They want to make the community a better place. [01:15:15.080 --> 01:15:21.720] The problem is that the people who are telling them what is supposed to be a good community [01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:29.240] are the very people who would like to just not take everything away from them. [01:15:29.240 --> 01:15:35.560] Here's one thing that Ben said, and he made an analogy regarding the military. [01:15:35.560 --> 01:15:43.960] This has become more and more prevalent, where the police see themselves as some kind of [01:15:43.960 --> 01:15:48.720] military, and they openly refer to us as civilians. [01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:50.200] Yeah, I know. [01:15:50.200 --> 01:15:57.880] This is a very dangerous thing, because the job of the police is to serve and protect. [01:15:57.880 --> 01:16:00.440] Military training is totally different. [01:16:00.440 --> 01:16:04.000] Kill and break things, and take over. [01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:08.000] That's not what the role of the police are supposed to be. [01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:09.000] You know what? [01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:13.320] They're really shouldn't have... All we hear about all the time is, we need more police. [01:16:13.320 --> 01:16:15.520] We need more cops out there to do this. [01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:16.880] No, we don't. [01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:18.360] They're not preventing anything. [01:16:18.360 --> 01:16:21.000] They're not stopping anything. [01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:28.240] All they're doing, all they can do is hold people accountable when they catch them doing [01:16:28.240 --> 01:16:29.240] something. [01:16:29.240 --> 01:16:34.040] Really, most of it is traffic-related. [01:16:34.040 --> 01:16:41.200] Yeah, Mike, when you were talking about the Monaco, Mike, when you were saying it's the [01:16:41.200 --> 01:16:46.440] law enforcement, there's one thing I'd like to interject there. [01:16:46.440 --> 01:16:49.640] There's two different types of officers we deal with. [01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:56.000] You have the peace officer, whose job is to protect the public and maintain the peace. [01:16:56.000 --> 01:17:03.520] That is a vast difference from a law enforcement officer who sees his duty as break the rules [01:17:03.520 --> 01:17:07.600] over their back when they don't follow them. [01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:11.400] There's a difference in that mentality and that application. [01:17:11.400 --> 01:17:15.320] Yeah, I agree. [01:17:15.320 --> 01:17:16.320] I agree. [01:17:16.320 --> 01:17:27.080] Well, I think, in a way, it's everybody's responsibility to some extent to be a peace [01:17:27.080 --> 01:17:35.280] officer because we're the ones who are either the victims of the crime or who witness crimes [01:17:35.280 --> 01:17:40.640] being committed when they're happening. [01:17:40.640 --> 01:18:07.440] If you take it even a step further, law enforcement, to me, doesn't carry as much weight as prevention. [01:18:07.440 --> 01:18:16.800] I think that terminology has kind of been spun around the opposite to where law enforcement [01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:22.200] is more critical to our society than prevention. [01:18:22.200 --> 01:18:31.560] Prevention has this weak need connotation to it, but it's far more important to prevent [01:18:31.560 --> 01:18:32.560] the crime. [01:18:32.560 --> 01:18:47.480] They're pushing the police as our ultimate protector because I'm afraid that they're [01:18:47.480 --> 01:18:50.160] going to become our ultimate oppressor. [01:18:50.160 --> 01:18:51.160] Exactly. [01:18:51.160 --> 01:19:00.960] If we don't become proactive and start taking action ourselves to keep our police in control, [01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:06.400] they're going to get more out of control than they are, if you can imagine such a thing. [01:19:06.400 --> 01:19:07.400] Well, yes. [01:19:07.400 --> 01:19:14.560] If you have a gun on your hip, that is going to prevent so much crime without saying a [01:19:14.560 --> 01:19:23.160] word, without ever having to draw that weapon, without ever even having to touch that weapon. [01:19:23.160 --> 01:19:30.800] I was once thrown through the top half of a window in Thailand in a bar fight. [01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:33.680] Nobody there armed to the teeth. [01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:38.600] Nobody even thought about pulling a weapon. [01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:39.600] Not an option. [01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:40.600] All right. [01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:41.600] Mike, listen. [01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:42.600] Listen. [01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:43.600] We need to move on. [01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:44.600] I'm sorry. [01:19:44.600 --> 01:19:45.600] We still have a total full board of callers. [01:19:45.600 --> 01:19:46.600] No problem. [01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:49.600] Can I stay on just to listen? [01:19:49.600 --> 01:19:50.920] Yes, you can. [01:19:50.920 --> 01:19:51.920] You can stay on to listen. [01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:52.920] Awesome. [01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:53.920] Thank you. [01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:54.920] All right. [01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:55.920] You're welcome. [01:19:55.920 --> 01:20:02.320] Yeah, and before I take the next call, I just want to comment that we have to realize there's [01:20:02.320 --> 01:20:04.120] an agenda in place here. [01:20:04.120 --> 01:20:05.120] Okay? [01:20:05.120 --> 01:20:12.320] The bad guys, the Illuminati, whatever you want to call them, the banksters, they want [01:20:12.320 --> 01:20:20.200] to put in place a police state, a prison police state economy society, all right? [01:20:20.200 --> 01:20:22.800] They don't want us to be educated. [01:20:22.800 --> 01:20:25.880] They don't want the police to be educated. [01:20:25.880 --> 01:20:34.200] They do not want us to have a thought process of obeying laws, to repeal laws, and these [01:20:34.200 --> 01:20:41.920] kinds of things because their agenda is complete and total control and enslavement down to [01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:47.520] fiat currency and the whole nine yards, people, all right? [01:20:47.520 --> 01:20:53.000] This is why Alex Jones calls his website prisonplanet.com, all right? [01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:54.360] And that's just the way it is. [01:20:54.360 --> 01:20:55.360] That's what they want. [01:20:55.360 --> 01:21:00.040] The Bible tells us that's what we're seeing, all right, so we can't really demonize the [01:21:00.040 --> 01:21:01.040] police. [01:21:01.040 --> 01:21:04.840] They're victims as much as we are of this whole thing, and we've got to try to get [01:21:04.840 --> 01:21:09.600] control of it at the local level as much as possible, like what Eddie and I were talking [01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:10.600] about last night. [01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:11.600] Okay? [01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:14.880] Ultimately, we're not going to be able to stop it, all right? [01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:16.600] There's going to be global government. [01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:22.800] There's going to be global currency and the mark of the beast and the whole thing. [01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:30.680] All we can do is stand up against it and do what we can to establish and provide the wilderness [01:21:30.680 --> 01:21:35.720] for God's people to have a haven, okay? [01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:37.040] And that's just the way it is. [01:21:37.040 --> 01:21:38.040] There is an agenda. [01:21:38.040 --> 01:21:43.440] They want the police state that they're working towards that very aggressively, all right? [01:21:43.440 --> 01:21:50.200] It's the global police state prison economy, society, they don't want free thought, so [01:21:50.200 --> 01:21:52.760] we just have to fight it the best we can on all levels, all right? [01:21:52.760 --> 01:21:54.960] We're going to go now to Dan in Connecticut. [01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:58.280] All right, Dan, thanks for holding so long. [01:21:58.280 --> 01:21:59.280] What's on your mind? [01:21:59.280 --> 01:22:07.520] Nothing much, just a quick story, actually a quick point, a preface to that quick point [01:22:07.520 --> 01:22:10.480] and then two quick stories and I'll be out of your hair. [01:22:10.480 --> 01:22:11.480] Oh, don't worry about it. [01:22:11.480 --> 01:22:12.480] Go ahead. [01:22:12.480 --> 01:22:20.160] Well, first of all, as far as doing all this stuff, they're really falling short of it. [01:22:20.160 --> 01:22:25.320] I really give faith to the American people here because they've really done such a good [01:22:25.320 --> 01:22:31.680] job of just being prepared already and a lot of people see the writing on the wall and [01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:37.200] you're probably going to notice that with the next three things I'm going to mention. [01:22:37.200 --> 01:22:43.080] The first thing I want to bring up is you had a police officer call in and that is the [01:22:43.080 --> 01:22:47.040] primary and only reason I have held on for this long because I wanted to weigh in on [01:22:47.040 --> 01:22:48.040] it. [01:22:48.040 --> 01:22:58.560] First, if you're willing, I don't care who you are, to use your life to shield my person, [01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:02.840] my property or my unalienable rights, you're my friend. [01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:08.560] I don't care if whatever you're doing, if you're a member of the Socialist Party even, [01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:11.440] I could care less. [01:23:11.440 --> 01:23:17.160] That is just something we have to recognize right here. [01:23:17.160 --> 01:23:21.600] Second thing, I just wanted to go over these next two stories which you guys know about [01:23:21.600 --> 01:23:26.560] them, you've heard about them probably over a year ago, but I just want to re-emphasize [01:23:26.560 --> 01:23:33.000] these for the listeners who are on the air right now and who haven't heard them already. [01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:41.000] The first story involved a certain police chief in my town and everybody was raising [01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:47.080] all kinds of crazy accusations because he was charged with official oppression, tyranny, [01:23:47.080 --> 01:23:53.040] whatnot, all nine yards, a whole bunch of charges range from pulling somebody over with [01:23:53.040 --> 01:23:58.360] a police cruiser just for the purpose of sleeping with them or whatever, but the thing that [01:23:58.360 --> 01:24:06.160] never happened here and I just want to mention this because it needs to be said is he never [01:24:06.160 --> 01:24:11.360] got a day in court, he never got a trial and during the police commission, I just want [01:24:11.360 --> 01:24:17.440] to stop and ask here, do we have any language restrictions after hours? [01:24:17.440 --> 01:24:25.760] I would appreciate not having languages because our affiliates rerun our archives. [01:24:25.760 --> 01:24:32.120] I'll abbreviate what was said in the best way possible and I think people could appreciate [01:24:32.120 --> 01:24:38.600] that, but when it was asked that the police commission read the charges, I was the first [01:24:38.600 --> 01:24:51.040] person to stand up and say BS, read the blank charges and a lot of people followed that [01:24:51.040 --> 01:24:55.080] and they actually read the charges. [01:24:55.080 --> 01:25:00.600] The point I was trying to make with that and I think a lot of people miss this sad to say [01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:07.000] was that I don't care what this guy was charged with, he deserved his day in court, he deserved [01:25:07.000 --> 01:25:13.040] a hearing, but in the end, they ended up deciding let's just give this guy a golden parachute [01:25:13.040 --> 01:25:18.880] because he was the police chief for X amount of years, whatever and at least there were [01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:25.040] people there that could understand at least halfway to it. [01:25:25.040 --> 01:25:31.160] Another story I want to bring up, I told you guys about a ballot access issue we had and [01:25:31.160 --> 01:25:36.720] there was a certain case where New London's finest out in Connecticut, they were about [01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:43.760] to arrest a petitioner for Ralph Nader to get on the ballot and on a public street. [01:25:43.760 --> 01:25:49.160] Granted this was a public event, granted a bunch of people were given permits to be there, [01:25:49.160 --> 01:25:54.800] but the first thing I did and by the way before I continue, I just want to give the story [01:25:54.800 --> 01:25:59.800] to give people hope out there that yes, there are a lot more people out there than those [01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:04.760] going on and they realize they have to defuse these situations. [01:26:04.760 --> 01:26:09.680] That said, basically I directed a friend of mine that was there that had a permit to have [01:26:09.680 --> 01:26:17.680] her own booth, I said, hey, get your camcorder, record this, the person there that was organized [01:26:17.680 --> 01:26:25.000] in the festival basically yelled, you can't be here, you have to have a permit to petition [01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:29.160] for anything, whatever and then she basically got on the radio and said, this is a political [01:26:29.160 --> 01:26:37.000] protest and I yelled at her because I knew she thought she was doing the right thing [01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:44.440] and I said don't broadcast that over the radio, that's really going to make you look bad. [01:26:44.440 --> 01:26:50.120] Long story short, the Ralph Nader petitioners ended up not being arrested, I ended up not [01:26:50.120 --> 01:26:56.880] being arrested and the conversation with the officer at that point degenerated to me saying, [01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:03.680] okay, what am I being arrested for, am I being detained, am I free to go and you know what, [01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:07.960] I could kind of tell, you know, the officer thought he was doing the right thing and he [01:27:07.960 --> 01:27:10.760] eventually figured it out. [01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:15.520] So that was just a situation where I recognized that everybody was trying to do the right [01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:21.800] thing as far as they realized and eventually they got it. [01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:28.520] So that's nothing that listeners of this network and other similar ones can't do. [01:27:28.520 --> 01:27:34.560] So I just want to leave it at that and say, you know what, police really kind of get the [01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:39.080] clue after a while, I mean you don't even have to go to the point of criminal charge [01:27:39.080 --> 01:27:40.560] in many cases. [01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:47.000] Yeah, I think the hard part of this is for the most part everybody's trying to do the [01:27:47.000 --> 01:27:49.160] right thing. [01:27:49.160 --> 01:27:55.440] The police are, even the ones that are jerks, okay, they're not doing the right thing very [01:27:55.440 --> 01:28:01.280] elegantly but most of them are still trying to do the right thing and this doesn't take [01:28:01.280 --> 01:28:06.560] a major revolution, it just takes a minor adjustment. [01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:15.040] You're right and that definitely gives me a lot of hope. [01:28:15.040 --> 01:28:20.880] I would direct any law enforcement officials who may be listening right now to research [01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:28.160] officer Jack McClam, okay, police and military against new world order, police and military [01:28:28.160 --> 01:28:38.040] for productivity of coordinating with citizens, all right, to realize that you guys are our [01:28:38.040 --> 01:28:39.040] friends. [01:28:39.040 --> 01:28:40.040] We're your friends. [01:28:40.040 --> 01:28:42.040] We're not against you. [01:28:42.040 --> 01:28:45.160] You all shouldn't be against us. [01:28:45.160 --> 01:28:46.440] We're not alone out there. [01:28:46.440 --> 01:28:54.080] Yeah, I mean think about how much easier a peace officer's job would be with a cooperative [01:28:54.080 --> 01:28:58.320] public, not an antagonistic or an alienated public. [01:28:58.320 --> 01:29:08.360] Yeah, and I think the law enforcement needs to realize that nothing personal, same happened [01:29:08.360 --> 01:29:10.160] to us. [01:29:10.160 --> 01:29:12.400] We're being used like pawns. [01:29:12.400 --> 01:29:15.560] You guys are being used like pawns, okay. [01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:19.080] The bad guys are pitting the cops against us. [01:29:19.080 --> 01:29:24.160] They're pitting us against the cops, all right, and everybody's getting the wool pulled over [01:29:24.160 --> 01:29:28.520] their eyes and nobody is winning here at this level. [01:29:28.520 --> 01:29:35.480] The bad guys are winning, okay, and so, you know, we all need to wake up and see what's [01:29:35.480 --> 01:29:38.120] really going on here. [01:29:38.120 --> 01:29:41.960] That's why I started with the first story, because at that particular police commission [01:29:41.960 --> 01:29:48.200] hearing, I heard all kinds of rumors about that guy, and a lot of people were just going [01:29:48.200 --> 01:29:53.280] around convicting him in the court of public opinion, okay. [01:29:53.280 --> 01:29:55.680] Maybe he did that stuff. [01:29:55.680 --> 01:30:01.920] Maybe he didn't, but the bottom line, the point that I tried to make by being the first [01:30:01.920 --> 01:30:10.040] to not only just stand up, but yell in obscenity, I mean of like last resort, just to say, read [01:30:10.040 --> 01:30:16.440] the charges at the very least, you know, and give this guy his day in court, because we [01:30:16.440 --> 01:30:22.080] all go through the same thing every day, and, you know, if he ended up staying with the [01:30:22.080 --> 01:30:26.760] police force and if things ended up going that way, at least somebody would have been [01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:36.720] there to, you know, help give that hint in his mind, so he could better serve us. [01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:38.720] Safa. [01:30:38.720 --> 01:30:40.720] Randy? [01:30:40.720 --> 01:30:45.520] Yeah, I agree. [01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:52.240] You know, the police are not always the bad guys, and, you know, what I wanted to say [01:30:52.240 --> 01:30:57.960] to Ben, and I didn't get a chance, was that you don't hear about the good things the police [01:30:57.960 --> 01:30:58.960] do. [01:30:58.960 --> 01:30:59.960] You don't hear about the good cops. [01:30:59.960 --> 01:31:03.240] You only hear about the ones that cause a problem. [01:31:03.240 --> 01:31:08.800] You can go out there and do a hundred traffic stops, and nobody even notices, nobody thinks [01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:10.440] anything about it. [01:31:10.440 --> 01:31:18.360] You do one when you're in a bad mood, some guy smacks you, and you pop off back to him. [01:31:18.360 --> 01:31:20.360] Everybody hears about that. [01:31:20.360 --> 01:31:29.840] It goes to Mark Anthony when he said, I come to Barry Caesar not to praise him. [01:31:29.840 --> 01:31:36.360] The bad men do live after them, the good is often turned with their bones. [01:31:36.360 --> 01:31:39.520] Nobody hears the good stuff, they only hear the bad stuff. [01:31:39.520 --> 01:31:45.440] Well, I mean, Randy, you and I have talked about the good stuff that's happened in New [01:31:45.440 --> 01:31:49.720] York when we were there, the NYPD. [01:31:49.720 --> 01:31:51.840] They were exemplary. [01:31:51.840 --> 01:31:54.680] Yes, they were. [01:31:54.680 --> 01:31:59.120] They were absolutely exemplary, okay? [01:31:59.120 --> 01:32:03.360] And I don't know what kind of training programs they went through, but I'll tell you what, [01:32:03.360 --> 01:32:06.120] no matter what it was, they rose above. [01:32:06.120 --> 01:32:10.400] Those people, the men and the women there were just extraordinary. [01:32:10.400 --> 01:32:19.080] Yeah, this is when we were at ground zero, 9-11, a couple of years ago. [01:32:19.080 --> 01:32:22.800] I was frankly surprised. [01:32:22.800 --> 01:32:31.200] I grew up in the inner city in Chicago on the near north side, really bad neighborhood. [01:32:31.200 --> 01:32:37.080] And because of my experience with the police there, I expected something quite different [01:32:37.080 --> 01:32:39.840] than what I actually found. [01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:47.600] I mean, these people, these police officers were putting up with people losing their tempers [01:32:47.600 --> 01:32:54.760] and screaming in their faces and not reacting. [01:32:54.760 --> 01:32:55.760] It was amazing. [01:32:55.760 --> 01:32:57.760] I was totally impressed. [01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:02.280] Well, yeah, but in New York, they don't lose their temper until you steal their pizza or [01:33:02.280 --> 01:33:03.280] their hoagie. [01:33:03.280 --> 01:33:11.440] All right, Dan, do you have anything else for us, Dan? [01:33:11.440 --> 01:33:13.480] Nothing much aside from that. [01:33:13.480 --> 01:33:19.360] I noticed a lot of people, they do focus on that, but I'll just leave it with this. [01:33:19.360 --> 01:33:23.280] I know my posture with that thing that happened down in New London. [01:33:23.280 --> 01:33:29.200] If that officer decided to arrest me, I would have filed criminal charges. [01:33:29.200 --> 01:33:33.360] It would have been very animated and very interesting. [01:33:33.360 --> 01:33:39.560] But my position was, I know this guy thinks he's doing the right thing. [01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:42.200] I really don't want to do that. [01:33:42.200 --> 01:33:46.640] When the same thing goes to elected officials, I must have told you about Frank Reel, the [01:33:46.640 --> 01:33:48.640] fictitious voter, right? [01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:49.640] Yes. [01:33:49.640 --> 01:33:50.640] Yes. [01:33:50.640 --> 01:33:58.600] In any case, all I had to do was mention these three words, grand jury complaint, and my [01:33:58.600 --> 01:34:07.160] wife had the right to vote again, which I had no problem with that. [01:34:07.160 --> 01:34:12.080] I was laughing on the inside and thinking, I've got a cell phone here. [01:34:12.080 --> 01:34:19.440] I'm not sure whether I want to dial 911, let's wait and see what happens, but it worked out [01:34:19.440 --> 01:34:22.640] and they did their job. [01:34:22.640 --> 01:34:24.720] It was a lot better. [01:34:24.720 --> 01:34:27.440] I really felt good about it. [01:34:27.440 --> 01:34:31.320] I think that's definitely something to take away from this. [01:34:31.320 --> 01:34:33.320] All right. [01:34:33.320 --> 01:34:34.320] Excellent. [01:34:34.320 --> 01:34:35.320] Okay. [01:34:35.320 --> 01:34:37.320] Well, you guys have a good show. [01:34:37.320 --> 01:34:38.320] I'll talk to you later. [01:34:38.320 --> 01:34:39.320] All right. [01:34:39.320 --> 01:34:40.320] We've got two more callers. [01:34:40.320 --> 01:34:41.320] Thanks, Dan. [01:34:41.320 --> 01:34:42.320] All right. [01:34:42.320 --> 01:34:45.320] We've got two more callers on the line. [01:34:45.320 --> 01:34:50.320] My assistant producer has come back from playing pool and hanging out with the gang and is [01:34:50.320 --> 01:34:53.320] like, you guys still in the air? [01:34:53.320 --> 01:34:56.320] Yeah, we're still in the air. [01:34:56.320 --> 01:34:57.320] Okay. [01:34:57.320 --> 01:34:59.320] We're going to go back to Rick in California. [01:34:59.320 --> 01:35:02.960] Okay, Rick, thanks for hanging with us so long. [01:35:02.960 --> 01:35:03.960] Please continue. [01:35:03.960 --> 01:35:04.960] What's on your mind? [01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:05.960] Well, thanks for having me. [01:35:05.960 --> 01:35:15.120] It was very interesting and the funny part is I heard this officer talk and he sounded [01:35:15.120 --> 01:35:22.720] exactly the same like the officers over here in California, no different, just the same. [01:35:22.720 --> 01:35:34.520] When I say that, by that I mean, I understand that we are very peaceful, we are the people. [01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:43.280] However, in my opinion, okay, they do want to do good, but in the end it is us that pays [01:35:43.280 --> 01:35:44.400] the price. [01:35:44.400 --> 01:35:45.400] We pay the price. [01:35:45.400 --> 01:35:50.760] They say, I heard you guys say, well, they want to do good and they're just trapped. [01:35:50.760 --> 01:35:55.760] Yeah, you guys are right, but I, for the first time would have to say I disagree in the sense [01:35:55.760 --> 01:36:00.440] that, yeah, they do, but they're not the ones that have to sleep in a cold cell. [01:36:00.440 --> 01:36:05.920] They get to go home to their wives or husbands and children and we're stuck down there in [01:36:05.920 --> 01:36:10.800] the jail cell because they were just too lazy to do anything or because they don't know [01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:11.800] the law. [01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:12.800] You understand what I'm saying? [01:36:12.800 --> 01:36:18.720] In that sense, that I don't agree with because we do pay the price. [01:36:18.720 --> 01:36:26.720] Yeah, I agreed with that and we raised that issue to him when he was on that, yeah, we [01:36:26.720 --> 01:36:28.760] are the ones that pay for it. [01:36:28.760 --> 01:36:34.320] We're the ones that have to go through the booking procedures and the printing and when [01:36:34.320 --> 01:36:40.360] it took us to magistrate and the thing I didn't get a chance to say is it would keep the policeman [01:36:40.360 --> 01:36:45.680] from having time to get together and come up with a story. [01:36:45.680 --> 01:36:50.320] They would have to actually tell the truth. [01:36:50.320 --> 01:36:52.280] No testifying here. [01:36:52.280 --> 01:36:55.400] That is true. [01:36:55.400 --> 01:36:56.400] That is true. [01:36:56.400 --> 01:37:02.480] You know, what I've done, my technique here in the city of Glendale in California is that [01:37:02.480 --> 01:37:08.600] I have been stopped so many times that I honestly feel like I'm an expert now as to what to [01:37:08.600 --> 01:37:09.600] say. [01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:13.680] I mean, I'm still learning, but for the most part, I already know what I can and cannot [01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:18.520] do and making nobody feel the officer whether he's new or not, it's almost like down to [01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:19.520] a science. [01:37:19.520 --> 01:37:27.760] But at the same time, I turn the tables on them in the sense that, well, they're treating [01:37:27.760 --> 01:37:33.520] me as a casualty of war per se, just like they say and, you know, if I'm going to go [01:37:33.520 --> 01:37:36.440] to jail, I'm going to go to jail, well, that's true. [01:37:36.440 --> 01:37:43.160] Now I'm going to turn the tables and now they're going to be casualties of my civil actions [01:37:43.160 --> 01:37:48.240] or lawsuits or whatever you want to call it or criminal charges because I don't know if [01:37:48.240 --> 01:37:53.840] this officer meant to do it or not until after I start charging him, just like he doesn't [01:37:53.840 --> 01:37:58.520] know if I'm committing a crime until after he has already taken me to jail. [01:37:58.520 --> 01:38:03.080] So that's just the way I see it and I understand that there's a lot of good officers out there. [01:38:03.080 --> 01:38:09.880] It is only a few that are doing bad, but in my opinion, from what I understand, I could [01:38:09.880 --> 01:38:15.480] be mistaken, but an officer cannot stop me unless he sees me committing a felony or if [01:38:15.480 --> 01:38:17.640] he has a warrant for my arrest. [01:38:17.640 --> 01:38:20.640] Now call me crazy, but what are these citations for? [01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:25.280] Because the light is out and they say, well, that's a danger or somebody gets charged [01:38:25.280 --> 01:38:27.040] because a reckless driving. [01:38:27.040 --> 01:38:28.040] I say, really? [01:38:28.040 --> 01:38:29.040] Well, that's a crime, isn't it? [01:38:29.040 --> 01:38:30.040] Well, yes, it is. [01:38:30.040 --> 01:38:31.040] Really? [01:38:31.040 --> 01:38:32.040] Well, who did I injure? [01:38:32.040 --> 01:38:33.040] Well, nobody. [01:38:33.040 --> 01:38:34.040] Well, then you're charging me for something that hasn't even happened. [01:38:34.040 --> 01:38:35.040] Well, it already did happen. [01:38:35.040 --> 01:38:36.040] Really? [01:38:36.040 --> 01:38:37.040] Well, are you the victim? [01:38:37.040 --> 01:38:38.040] No. [01:38:38.040 --> 01:38:41.040] Well, I'm going to be the victim in my lawsuit, so I hope you're ready, you know? [01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:43.040] That's just the way I see it. [01:38:43.040 --> 01:38:44.040] I don't know. [01:38:44.040 --> 01:38:48.280] Actually, Rick, you got the felony part right, but the other is breach of the peace. [01:38:48.280 --> 01:38:52.320] If you're committing a breach of the peace in his presence, he has the authority to arrest [01:38:52.320 --> 01:38:53.320] without warrant. [01:38:53.320 --> 01:39:00.560] Well, actually, if you commit any crime at all in his presence, he can arrest. [01:39:00.560 --> 01:39:04.640] If I may... Go ahead, I'm sorry. [01:39:04.640 --> 01:39:15.120] Well, I was going to say, if I may just plug in my YouTube site again, because I read what [01:39:15.120 --> 01:39:19.880] the Court of Select I is, which the Supreme Court has held, there has to be for it to [01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:20.880] be a crime. [01:39:20.880 --> 01:39:26.040] There has to be a victim, injured party, proof of loss, injury or harm. [01:39:26.040 --> 01:39:34.880] My YouTube site is youtube.com forward slash tactical guy one, or you can just search Glendale [01:39:34.880 --> 01:39:35.880] police. [01:39:35.880 --> 01:39:40.160] I'm saying this because I'm starting to go into my black law dictionary, and I'm going [01:39:40.160 --> 01:39:45.000] to start reading most of the words there, so people can understand what they mean. [01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:48.280] For example, when you say, you're not under arrest, you're being detained. [01:39:48.280 --> 01:39:49.280] Well, that's funny. [01:39:49.280 --> 01:39:58.280] My black law dictionary says that that is a form of arrest, where is your warrant officer? [01:39:58.280 --> 01:39:59.280] They don't have one, and they don't like it. [01:39:59.280 --> 01:40:05.000] They absolutely do not like it when you call them on point of law, because it's like Eddie [01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:13.280] said, they don't really read the law itself, they read explanations about the law. [01:40:13.280 --> 01:40:19.320] Also, they get their emotions played on by these training programs, where it doesn't [01:40:19.320 --> 01:40:23.720] even have anything to do with law with these guys at all, it has to do with control. [01:40:23.720 --> 01:40:29.560] I heard Randy's huff when you talked, Rick, about how they have to have these certain [01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:33.560] things and that it requires an injury for it to be considered a crime. [01:40:33.560 --> 01:40:38.360] He and I have discussed this before, but that goes back to the things that I've talked about [01:40:38.360 --> 01:40:43.080] so many times about knowing the terminology used in the statute. [01:40:43.080 --> 01:40:47.320] The reason exactly for what you're talking about and the reason the Supreme Court says [01:40:47.320 --> 01:40:55.200] it must be that way is because you cannot injure a legal fiction. [01:40:55.200 --> 01:41:00.600] Now, you can injure someone attached to it or representing it, but you can't injure the [01:41:00.600 --> 01:41:08.360] fiction, which is why the rule is that when we're talking about a person, which is what [01:41:08.360 --> 01:41:15.320] the statutes they're trying to charge us under covers, there's no injury. [01:41:15.320 --> 01:41:21.080] We're not that person party that the law is speaking to, but the officer believes we are. [01:41:21.080 --> 01:41:22.080] Right. [01:41:22.080 --> 01:41:29.600] That goes to the same thing as to when I was in traffic court and they obviously have a [01:41:29.600 --> 01:41:34.160] plan out here in California, if you have no registration for whatever reason, I don't [01:41:34.160 --> 01:41:39.560] know if there's no victim there, but the point is that I had the judge vote from criminal [01:41:39.560 --> 01:41:44.640] and he jumped to saying, well, you consented, and I said, never do it. [01:41:44.640 --> 01:41:51.480] He goes, well, you consented when you contracted by signing the driver's license and it's amazing. [01:41:51.480 --> 01:41:57.280] I reported it and I put it on YouTube, some people, that it's mostly contracts. [01:41:57.280 --> 01:42:03.280] There's never any victim in most crimes and that's a fraud that they're committing on [01:42:03.280 --> 01:42:08.600] the people and the people just unfortunately do not understand that and that's the way [01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:13.720] that it's designed so that they don't understand, but one thing I want to say hopefully, I really [01:42:13.720 --> 01:42:21.200] hope from the bottom of my heart, Randy, Deb, and everybody that is listening, that we organize [01:42:21.200 --> 01:42:27.680] and not just, you know, spend because it's such a thing and share thoughts and explain [01:42:27.680 --> 01:42:31.920] and understand the other side as well, other people because we're all human beings. [01:42:31.920 --> 01:42:37.360] However, I believe that if we do not organize and by organize, I just mean that we all, [01:42:37.360 --> 01:42:44.480] you know, get together somehow, whether it's over the phone or not, we talk about things [01:42:44.480 --> 01:42:49.640] and help each other out because if we don't do that, you know, I really don't see how [01:42:49.640 --> 01:42:56.040] we're going to move forward in helping our officers that do want to change the ways that [01:42:56.040 --> 01:42:57.040] we have now. [01:42:57.040 --> 01:43:01.640] We're not going to help them come out because I really do believe that a lot of officers [01:43:01.640 --> 01:43:05.280] do want to come out and say, hey, yeah, you know, I've seen this and this is wrong, but [01:43:05.280 --> 01:43:10.280] I really think that they do need our support, but we must organize for them to feel safe [01:43:10.280 --> 01:43:16.320] enough because we outnumber them as far as people, but not as far as supporters. [01:43:16.320 --> 01:43:22.480] There's a lot more cops out there that may have done things wrong and there's not enough [01:43:22.480 --> 01:43:26.160] people supporting these other officers that want to come out and say, I did witness this [01:43:26.160 --> 01:43:30.760] crime and it was an officer or it was a judge, you know, so hopefully we can do that and [01:43:30.760 --> 01:43:35.320] I want to thank you guys for taking my call and I will stay on the line in this if that's [01:43:35.320 --> 01:43:36.320] okay with you guys. [01:43:36.320 --> 01:43:37.320] Of course. [01:43:37.320 --> 01:43:38.320] This has been a great job. [01:43:38.320 --> 01:43:41.600] Of course and thank you, Rick, and indeed you're correct. [01:43:41.600 --> 01:43:45.600] I mean, we're, according to Randy, we're batting a thousand here. [01:43:45.600 --> 01:43:51.840] Anytime he's ever asked a police officer, would they really object to bringing an arrested [01:43:51.840 --> 01:43:58.280] person immediately before a magistrate, every one of them has said no and Officer Ben said [01:43:58.280 --> 01:43:59.280] no tonight. [01:43:59.280 --> 01:44:04.280] And he hemmed and hawed and yeah, he complained and said, well, you know, it would be a pain [01:44:04.280 --> 01:44:07.960] because people would, you know, the cops would be off the street and they'd have to deal [01:44:07.960 --> 01:44:08.960] with all this. [01:44:08.960 --> 01:44:13.920] But when push came to shove, he said no, he really wouldn't have a problem with it. [01:44:13.920 --> 01:44:18.080] He just came from the standpoint that he thinks it would be a waste of time because the magistrate [01:44:18.080 --> 01:44:24.560] would always take the officer's side and that may or may not be true. [01:44:24.560 --> 01:44:25.560] Okay. [01:44:25.560 --> 01:44:33.840] But the point is, at least from my point of view, okay, even if the magistrate did take [01:44:33.840 --> 01:44:42.480] the officer's side, at that point in time, the arrested person would have the opportunity [01:44:42.480 --> 01:44:51.720] to whip some bucks out of his or her pocket or a credit card or something to bail out [01:44:51.720 --> 01:44:58.600] and go on with the merry way without being put through the whole booking process. [01:44:58.600 --> 01:45:03.480] So even if Officer Ben is correct and the magistrate would always have, would always [01:45:03.480 --> 01:45:08.560] take the cop side, let's just assume that, at least the person would not be put through [01:45:08.560 --> 01:45:13.920] the booking process first, they would have the opportunity to bail out on the spot right [01:45:13.920 --> 01:45:14.920] then and there. [01:45:14.920 --> 01:45:19.560] And that's very, very important to me, at least. [01:45:19.560 --> 01:45:20.560] Right guys? [01:45:20.560 --> 01:45:21.560] Right. [01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:22.560] Let's do it. [01:45:22.560 --> 01:45:27.000] And just like how that, what's the thing, I forgot who it was, said that they charge [01:45:27.000 --> 01:45:32.120] us with crazy crimes and then so we can go ahead and sign off on something that's more [01:45:32.120 --> 01:45:33.120] reasonable. [01:45:33.120 --> 01:45:37.920] I believe these cops, same way, if they come out and talk about it, guess what? [01:45:37.920 --> 01:45:41.480] They have bills, so they're going to probably get fired or get recalculated again. [01:45:41.480 --> 01:45:43.040] I'm sure that's what they're scared of. [01:45:43.040 --> 01:45:47.080] So they're probably in the same predicament, just in a way. [01:45:47.080 --> 01:45:48.080] Absolutely. [01:45:48.080 --> 01:45:49.080] All right. [01:45:49.080 --> 01:45:50.080] Well, thank you, Rick. [01:45:50.080 --> 01:45:51.080] Appreciate it. [01:45:51.080 --> 01:45:52.080] Thank you. [01:45:52.080 --> 01:45:53.080] Okay. [01:45:53.080 --> 01:45:58.160] We are now going to bring on our next caller, who isn't exactly a caller. [01:45:58.160 --> 01:46:08.800] He is Aaron, my right-hand man, my assistant producer, producer extraordinaire. [01:46:08.800 --> 01:46:11.020] He's been screening calls from me all night long. [01:46:11.020 --> 01:46:15.560] He went out to play pool and drink at the bar with his buddies and he came back and [01:46:15.560 --> 01:46:19.200] heard us talking and was like, is this an archive, were you guys still in there? [01:46:19.200 --> 01:46:27.080] So he had a question for Eddie regarding some kind of a transition, some kind of crossover [01:46:27.080 --> 01:46:33.560] of civil and criminal law regarding these cameras, these red light cameras. [01:46:33.560 --> 01:46:34.560] Yeah. [01:46:34.560 --> 01:46:41.760] Can you, come on, Aaron, I've patched the producer bridge live. [01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:42.760] You got me, Deb? [01:46:42.760 --> 01:46:43.760] I got you. [01:46:43.760 --> 01:46:44.760] All right. [01:46:44.760 --> 01:46:45.760] Hi, guys. [01:46:45.760 --> 01:46:46.760] How are y'all doing? [01:46:46.760 --> 01:46:47.760] Good. [01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.760] Can y'all hear Aaron? [01:46:48.760 --> 01:46:49.760] Yeah. [01:46:49.760 --> 01:46:50.760] Okay. [01:46:50.760 --> 01:46:51.760] Go ahead. [01:46:51.760 --> 01:46:55.800] Well, my question, the thing that I've been looking into now is specifically the section [01:46:55.800 --> 01:47:01.080] of law that says exclusive appellate jurisdiction and what this is, just to catch everybody [01:47:01.080 --> 01:47:13.360] up if they're not aware, there's a statute in the Texas Code of Transportation, I can't [01:47:13.360 --> 01:47:19.120] even talk tonight, in the transportation code that specifically authorizes the creation [01:47:19.120 --> 01:47:25.960] of a municipal statute or ordinance that is a civil violation for violating these red [01:47:25.960 --> 01:47:34.200] light cameras and essentially they limit the appeal to the municipal court and they do [01:47:34.200 --> 01:47:40.240] this by putting in the law in the code specifically that the municipal court has exclusive appellate [01:47:40.240 --> 01:47:45.280] jurisdiction, the term exclusive appellate jurisdiction as far as I can tell only appears [01:47:45.280 --> 01:47:50.280] one time in law and it seems to go against some of the founding principles of law and [01:47:50.280 --> 01:47:54.760] of our courts that basically everything can go all the way up to the Supreme Court. [01:47:54.760 --> 01:47:58.320] Well, here is my question. [01:47:58.320 --> 01:48:06.400] I found a right to appeal in Texas law with regard to criminal code, but I have not found [01:48:06.400 --> 01:48:10.600] a right to appeal in Texas law with regard to civil code. [01:48:10.600 --> 01:48:19.040] So I can't prove that this is unconstitutional or unstatutory I suppose within the body of [01:48:19.040 --> 01:48:25.280] law itself because of the fact that this is a civil violation instead of a criminal violation. [01:48:25.280 --> 01:48:27.240] So Eddie, can you help me out? [01:48:27.240 --> 01:48:28.240] Yeah. [01:48:28.240 --> 01:48:34.880] Dr. Graves addresses something very specific to that when it's on the civil side. [01:48:34.880 --> 01:48:39.440] You do not have an automatic right to appeal. [01:48:39.440 --> 01:48:46.360] An appeal only applies if you can show that there was a violation of the application of [01:48:46.360 --> 01:48:52.400] law or the required procedure on behalf of the prosecutor or the judge. [01:48:52.400 --> 01:48:58.560] In other words, they disobeyed the rules in a fashion that prejudiced your case. [01:48:58.560 --> 01:49:04.320] Then you have the right to appeal and that's on the civil side. [01:49:04.320 --> 01:49:12.520] Now on the criminal, that appeal is allowed to go up, but on the civil, that qualification [01:49:12.520 --> 01:49:16.640] must exist before the appeal exists. [01:49:16.640 --> 01:49:20.160] Now you and I talked about this before. [01:49:20.160 --> 01:49:24.360] The difference here on the red light cameras in Texas is that you are being charged under [01:49:24.360 --> 01:49:30.400] an ordinance, not state law. [01:49:30.400 --> 01:49:32.800] So you've got to figure out... [01:49:32.800 --> 01:49:34.440] Eddie? [01:49:34.440 --> 01:49:38.520] Eddie, are you there? [01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:44.280] Okay, hold on listeners, we're going to get Eddie back. [01:49:44.280 --> 01:49:50.520] Yeah, this is my question too, because Eddie, are you there? [01:49:50.520 --> 01:49:51.520] Yeah, I'm here. [01:49:51.520 --> 01:49:52.520] I don't know what keeps happening. [01:49:52.520 --> 01:49:53.520] Okay. [01:49:53.520 --> 01:49:54.520] Yeah, it's just Skype. [01:49:54.520 --> 01:49:55.520] It's just the Internet. [01:49:55.520 --> 01:50:03.880] Okay, you were saying about the municipal being charged under municipal and the civil [01:50:03.880 --> 01:50:04.880] and the criminal. [01:50:04.880 --> 01:50:10.640] I was wondering about this too, because Aaron was texting me and saying that even though [01:50:10.640 --> 01:50:16.080] it's a municipal ordinance and it's civil, Aaron was telling me that it still falls under [01:50:16.080 --> 01:50:20.280] the transportation code, which is criminal, and I don't understand that. [01:50:20.280 --> 01:50:26.440] Aaron, can you text that link to Eddie? [01:50:26.440 --> 01:50:33.640] I don't have his Skype up, but essentially what the statute does at the state level is [01:50:33.640 --> 01:50:36.680] it authorizes the creation of a municipal ordinance. [01:50:36.680 --> 01:50:41.800] This is just more convolution that they put around this junk, and I'm sure what happened [01:50:41.800 --> 01:50:48.400] is ATS, the company that does it here in College Station, came to the Texas legislature with [01:50:48.400 --> 01:50:52.960] a bill already written in hand, and they came up with every single thing that they could [01:50:52.960 --> 01:50:57.280] pack in this thing to prevent this from being struck down. [01:50:57.280 --> 01:51:01.320] They came all ready to go, lobbied them, and the legislature just signed it. [01:51:01.320 --> 01:51:05.040] I'm sure that's who wrote it or somebody like that. [01:51:05.040 --> 01:51:10.720] They probably spent six months researching this law and finding every possible way that [01:51:10.720 --> 01:51:14.920] they could make this not be struck down like it's been struck down in other states. [01:51:14.920 --> 01:51:20.600] You've got a Texas set of statutes authorizing it, and then you've got a municipal ordinance [01:51:20.600 --> 01:51:26.000] that actually is the law that you're breaking. [01:51:26.000 --> 01:51:33.120] When you get the ticket in the mail, it says violation of ordinance, 3,000 whatever. [01:51:33.120 --> 01:51:36.240] If you're going to challenge this, I suppose you could challenge it in one of two ways. [01:51:36.240 --> 01:51:39.560] You could fight the ticket, you could fight the ordinance, or you could fight the state [01:51:39.560 --> 01:51:40.560] law. [01:51:40.560 --> 01:51:43.560] Of course, it would be better to beat the state law because then all the ordinances [01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:47.760] in the municipalities would be declared invalid because there's no longer an authority to [01:51:47.760 --> 01:51:48.760] create them. [01:51:48.760 --> 01:51:53.480] Basically, here in College Station, the municipal ordinance is practically word for word an [01:51:53.480 --> 01:51:57.560] exact copy of the state law. [01:51:57.560 --> 01:52:03.640] It just is a little more empowering, and it says it exists instead of you have the authority [01:52:03.640 --> 01:52:05.640] to create it. [01:52:05.640 --> 01:52:16.280] Right, but now when you look, this says a person who fails to pay the civil penalty. [01:52:16.280 --> 01:52:22.520] How does one become liable for a civil penalty? [01:52:22.520 --> 01:52:26.400] I would assume you have a civil judgment against you. [01:52:26.400 --> 01:52:35.040] Yeah, there would have to either be a judgment or an enforceable contract which you breached. [01:52:35.040 --> 01:52:37.920] That's all that's allowed on the civil side. [01:52:37.920 --> 01:52:40.120] Of which neither I have done. [01:52:40.120 --> 01:52:41.120] Correct. [01:52:41.120 --> 01:52:44.320] Again, we're into the terminology used. [01:52:44.320 --> 01:52:48.440] We're talking about a person again. [01:52:48.440 --> 01:52:57.000] From what I can see, Chapter 707 does not have, let's see if it does. [01:52:57.000 --> 01:53:00.040] And Eddie, I sent you the link that you have to. [01:53:00.040 --> 01:53:02.400] Yeah, that's what I've got pulled up. [01:53:02.400 --> 01:53:03.400] Okay. [01:53:03.400 --> 01:53:07.440] Yeah, the term person is not defined here, so guess what? [01:53:07.440 --> 01:53:11.520] Chapter 311 Government Code shall govern the definitions here. [01:53:11.520 --> 01:53:18.960] So we're right back to the fictitious person, not the real man, but the fictitious person. [01:53:18.960 --> 01:53:24.440] And Officer Ben, if you're listening, yes, there is a difference, and it is not minutiae. [01:53:24.440 --> 01:53:26.520] It is a fact. [01:53:26.520 --> 01:53:32.000] But the point is that the terminology in all the statutes is very important. [01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:38.160] And here it specifically says a person that is liable for a civil penalty. [01:53:38.160 --> 01:53:42.320] There aren't but two ways to fall under a civil penalty. [01:53:42.320 --> 01:53:48.640] There has to be a civil judgment or there must be a breach of contract. [01:53:48.640 --> 01:53:52.520] So again, the only person... [01:53:52.520 --> 01:53:57.000] That would be one thing that I would be able to appeal it out of a municipal court on. [01:53:57.000 --> 01:53:59.200] Well, at that point... [01:53:59.200 --> 01:54:02.760] You'd be able to appeal it out on the application as well. [01:54:02.760 --> 01:54:08.720] Okay, but if I can have a judgment against me by the municipal court, then I do have [01:54:08.720 --> 01:54:14.560] a civil judgment against me, and I am liable for a civil penalty, correct? [01:54:14.560 --> 01:54:20.840] Yeah, provided you were subject of the ordinance to begin with, yes. [01:54:20.840 --> 01:54:27.280] If they're applying an ordinance to someone to whom by the very writing of the law it [01:54:27.280 --> 01:54:30.240] cannot apply to, that is a fraudulent act. [01:54:30.240 --> 01:54:31.240] Right. [01:54:31.240 --> 01:54:33.840] I mean, that's just common sense. [01:54:33.840 --> 01:54:39.040] If I told you I painted your car red and you went out and looked and it's still yellow, [01:54:39.040 --> 01:54:43.480] then I committed fraud in what I told you, especially if I collected money from you to [01:54:43.480 --> 01:54:48.360] do the paint job and delivered it back to you exactly the same way you gave it to me, [01:54:48.360 --> 01:54:54.440] telling you that I had altered it and hadn't. [01:54:54.440 --> 01:54:59.720] We discussed this one day, I think, Aaron, about if a city is actually a corporation, [01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:06.400] which we know they are, and a corporation has their corporate rules, this is how the [01:55:06.400 --> 01:55:13.560] corporation functions, who is subject to the corporate rules? [01:55:13.560 --> 01:55:16.200] The employees of the corporation. [01:55:16.200 --> 01:55:17.640] Exactly. [01:55:17.640 --> 01:55:22.640] It is not the people that work down the street at a different company and a different corporation [01:55:22.640 --> 01:55:24.680] that's got nothing to do with this one. [01:55:24.680 --> 01:55:29.720] It is the people that are specifically employed by that corporation that is governed by that [01:55:29.720 --> 01:55:33.960] corporation's rules. [01:55:33.960 --> 01:55:39.160] In this case, when they are using the term person, and that term person is drawn from [01:55:39.160 --> 01:55:44.080] chapter 311, then what is one of the things there? [01:55:44.080 --> 01:55:48.600] Governmental entity. [01:55:48.600 --> 01:55:56.440] Any employee of a governmental entity falls under the subject of an ordinance, because [01:55:56.440 --> 01:56:03.840] they are an employee of that political subdivision, a government entity. [01:56:03.840 --> 01:56:05.700] That again is not minutiae. [01:56:05.700 --> 01:56:14.760] That is just a simple logical conclusion to the application of the writing of the law. [01:56:14.760 --> 01:56:15.840] That all makes sense to me. [01:56:15.840 --> 01:56:20.840] What I've been doing is I've been trying to go through this specific piece of law and [01:56:20.840 --> 01:56:25.880] take it apart a little bit at a time and find all the holes in it. [01:56:25.880 --> 01:56:31.120] That's a hole that's applicable to a whole mass of law. [01:56:31.120 --> 01:56:32.120] I like it. [01:56:32.120 --> 01:56:33.120] All of them. [01:56:33.120 --> 01:56:34.120] You're right. [01:56:34.120 --> 01:56:35.360] I like it. [01:56:35.360 --> 01:56:38.720] I'm just trying to pick apart this one in every place that I can. [01:56:38.720 --> 01:56:40.760] I wasn't sure about that appeal. [01:56:40.760 --> 01:56:49.360] Fortunately, it looks like the phrase, exclusive appellate jurisdiction, is not against the [01:56:49.360 --> 01:56:50.360] rules. [01:56:50.360 --> 01:56:51.360] Right. [01:56:51.360 --> 01:56:52.360] However... [01:56:52.360 --> 01:56:55.360] It's not against their employees. [01:56:55.360 --> 01:56:56.360] It's not. [01:56:56.360 --> 01:56:57.360] Right. [01:56:57.360 --> 01:56:58.360] There's a problem with that. [01:56:58.360 --> 01:56:59.360] Okay. [01:56:59.360 --> 01:57:00.360] Go ahead. [01:57:00.360 --> 01:57:06.080] How could you tell if it's unconstitutional? [01:57:06.080 --> 01:57:13.480] A municipal court can be a non-attorney. [01:57:13.480 --> 01:57:25.560] If the municipal court, having exclusive appellate jurisdiction, rules in violation of constitution, [01:57:25.560 --> 01:57:32.960] how would you get or say this statute is totally unconstitutional, but the municipal courts [01:57:32.960 --> 01:57:40.560] are obviously ignorant of the fact, how would you ever get such an unconstitutional statute [01:57:40.560 --> 01:57:45.680] overturned if you can't appeal it to a court of competent jurisdiction? [01:57:45.680 --> 01:57:47.120] Exactly. [01:57:47.120 --> 01:57:50.480] That would be where the citizen differentiates from the person. [01:57:50.480 --> 01:57:52.960] The person wouldn't have that ability. [01:57:52.960 --> 01:57:55.160] The citizen always does. [01:57:55.160 --> 01:57:57.640] It's a matter of right. [01:57:57.640 --> 01:58:00.160] Here's something to clarify this for you, Aaron. [01:58:00.160 --> 01:58:05.240] Section 707.002, authority to provide for civil penalty. [01:58:05.240 --> 01:58:10.040] The governing body of a local authority... Well, what does local authority mean? [01:58:10.040 --> 01:58:17.160] If you go up to 001, local authority has the meaning assigned by section 541.002, which [01:58:17.160 --> 01:58:26.320] states local authority means a county, municipality, or other local entity authorized to enact [01:58:26.320 --> 01:58:33.160] traffic laws under the laws of this state. [01:58:33.160 --> 01:58:34.160] What is traffic? [01:58:34.160 --> 01:58:35.720] We've already looked it up. [01:58:35.720 --> 01:58:41.880] It is commerce. [01:58:41.880 --> 01:58:47.800] So now, by-ordinates may implement a photographic traffic signal. [01:58:47.800 --> 01:58:53.480] Now, Randy, does this make sense to you that if you are unable to enact a traffic law under [01:58:53.480 --> 01:59:00.720] the laws of this state, is a law and an ordinance the same thing? [01:59:00.720 --> 01:59:03.800] Well, yes. [01:59:03.800 --> 01:59:10.840] It's a law with limited... Local application, right. [01:59:10.840 --> 01:59:16.560] Specific local application. [01:59:16.560 --> 01:59:23.680] Or traffic photographic traffic signal enforcement. [01:59:23.680 --> 01:59:30.440] And 541.304 is where that definition resides. [01:59:30.440 --> 01:59:37.160] So let's see if we can get there from here. [01:59:37.160 --> 01:59:42.760] Traffic control signal means a manual electric or mechanical device that alternately directs [01:59:42.760 --> 01:59:51.840] traffic to stop and to proceed. [01:59:51.840 --> 01:59:57.800] So again, we're going to see, as specified, let's see, the vehicle is operated in violation [01:59:57.800 --> 02:00:06.160] of instructions of that traffic control signal as specified by section 544.007. [02:00:06.160 --> 02:00:12.120] Let's pull that one up. [02:00:12.120 --> 02:00:13.120] 007.007. [02:00:13.120 --> 02:00:22.480] All right, traffic control signals in general. [02:00:22.480 --> 02:00:28.400] A traffic control signal displaying different colored lights or colored lighted arrows successfully [02:00:28.400 --> 02:00:33.840] or in any combination may display only green, yellow, or red and applies to operators of [02:00:33.840 --> 02:00:37.840] vehicles as provided by this section. [02:00:37.840 --> 02:00:44.680] Again, specific words with specific meanings and that's intentional. [02:00:44.680 --> 02:00:50.520] And it all deals, once again, with operating and operating and operating. [02:00:50.520 --> 02:00:56.400] I mean, it's just like what I wanted to ask Officer Ben when he was on. [02:00:56.400 --> 02:01:01.240] Does he understand that in Texas traffic laws there are transportation code? [02:01:01.240 --> 02:01:03.800] There are only two types of licenses. [02:01:03.800 --> 02:01:05.760] No more, no less. [02:01:05.760 --> 02:01:07.920] There are only two. [02:01:07.920 --> 02:01:12.720] Is he aware both of them are only for commercial purposes? [02:01:12.720 --> 02:01:18.400] The only difference being the weight capacity of the commercial vehicle you're allowed to [02:01:18.400 --> 02:01:21.880] operate with that license. [02:01:21.880 --> 02:01:25.440] That's the only difference. [02:01:25.440 --> 02:01:35.680] So you can't look at these things as separate entities because they all tie themselves together. [02:01:35.680 --> 02:01:38.120] It's like insurance without a driver's license. [02:01:38.120 --> 02:01:40.960] It's like insurance without registration. [02:01:40.960 --> 02:01:52.720] They cannot stand alone because they require some part of each other in order to be functional. [02:01:52.720 --> 02:02:01.080] Impera Materia. [02:02:01.080 --> 02:02:13.880] So I mean, let's see, now in subtitle, let's see, what subtitle are we in here? [02:02:13.880 --> 02:02:21.640] Subtitle C, Rules of the Road 541, something I was just looking at. [02:02:21.640 --> 02:02:33.880] Now in section 541, or subtitle 541, which, yeah, subtitle C. Now this is what they stuck [02:02:33.880 --> 02:02:35.840] for the definition of traffic. [02:02:35.840 --> 02:02:44.280] In this subtitle, traffic means pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, and conveyances [02:02:44.280 --> 02:02:49.760] including vehicles and street cars, singly or together, while using a highway for the [02:02:49.760 --> 02:02:51.760] purpose of travel. [02:02:51.760 --> 02:02:53.760] Wait, wait, wait, wait. [02:02:53.760 --> 02:02:55.640] Say that again, Eddie. [02:02:55.640 --> 02:02:57.200] Pedestrians what now? [02:02:57.200 --> 02:02:58.200] Yes. [02:02:58.200 --> 02:03:06.080] In this subtitle, traffic means pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, and conveyances [02:03:06.080 --> 02:03:12.640] including vehicles and street cars, singly or together, while using a highway for the [02:03:12.640 --> 02:03:16.200] purposes of travel. [02:03:16.200 --> 02:03:23.320] Now notice, for the first time, you've come across the word travel versus transportation. [02:03:23.320 --> 02:03:24.920] Right. [02:03:24.920 --> 02:03:26.600] Okay. [02:03:26.600 --> 02:03:31.680] Highway or street means the width between the boundary lines of a publicly maintained [02:03:31.680 --> 02:03:36.400] way, any part of which is open to the public for vehicular travel. [02:03:36.400 --> 02:03:39.400] Again, more in travel. [02:03:39.400 --> 02:03:40.400] Exactly. [02:03:40.400 --> 02:03:45.440] This goes all the way back to those Supreme Court cases that we've already validated that [02:03:45.440 --> 02:03:53.360] say no ifs, no ands, no buts, the public has a right to the use of the road for the purpose [02:03:53.360 --> 02:03:57.000] of vehicular travel. [02:03:57.000 --> 02:03:58.560] It is a right. [02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:02.240] If they're public roads. [02:04:02.240 --> 02:04:03.240] Not a privilege. [02:04:03.240 --> 02:04:04.240] Correct. [02:04:04.240 --> 02:04:05.240] Not a privilege. [02:04:05.240 --> 02:04:06.760] It is a right. [02:04:06.760 --> 02:04:08.160] If they're public roads. [02:04:08.160 --> 02:04:09.160] Right? [02:04:09.160 --> 02:04:10.160] Yeah. [02:04:10.160 --> 02:04:13.000] You can only, you only have a right to go on public property. [02:04:13.000 --> 02:04:14.000] Yeah. [02:04:14.000 --> 02:04:16.720] You don't have a right to go on private. [02:04:16.720 --> 02:04:23.880] But any, any state maintained road that is publicly accessible is a public road, according [02:04:23.880 --> 02:04:27.080] to the Supreme Court. [02:04:27.080 --> 02:04:35.560] Yeah, state or municipality, any governmental agency maintains it. [02:04:35.560 --> 02:04:36.560] Right. [02:04:36.560 --> 02:04:42.560] Now, when, and in the cases we've read where it says that the state has the right to reasonable [02:04:42.560 --> 02:04:45.400] regulation. [02:04:45.400 --> 02:04:48.280] Reasonable does not include licensure. [02:04:48.280 --> 02:04:49.280] Okay. [02:04:49.280 --> 02:04:50.280] Why? [02:04:50.280 --> 02:04:54.000] Because a license is a privilege. [02:04:54.000 --> 02:05:00.120] And in order to acquire the privilege, they require the surrendering of a right. [02:05:00.120 --> 02:05:03.520] And you can't be made to do that either. [02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:10.720] No one is going to trade something of unlimited value for something of greatly limited value [02:05:10.720 --> 02:05:13.320] in its place. [02:05:13.320 --> 02:05:20.320] Especially when that limited value item can be revoked on a whim and the other cannot. [02:05:20.320 --> 02:05:22.320] Right. [02:05:22.320 --> 02:05:24.000] We have one more caller. [02:05:24.000 --> 02:05:27.120] Aaron, did we answer your question? [02:05:27.120 --> 02:05:28.920] Yeah, you did. [02:05:28.920 --> 02:05:29.920] Okay. [02:05:29.920 --> 02:05:30.920] I appreciate it. [02:05:30.920 --> 02:05:31.920] Okay. [02:05:31.920 --> 02:05:32.920] Thank you, Eddie. [02:05:32.920 --> 02:05:33.920] Yeah. [02:05:33.920 --> 02:05:34.920] All right. [02:05:34.920 --> 02:05:35.920] That was Aaron. [02:05:35.920 --> 02:05:40.080] My right-hand man, a producer man, helps out so much I can't even express. [02:05:40.080 --> 02:05:42.160] I can't do this without him. [02:05:42.160 --> 02:05:43.160] Okay. [02:05:43.160 --> 02:05:44.160] Last caller. [02:05:44.160 --> 02:05:45.160] Scott from Connecticut. [02:05:45.160 --> 02:05:46.160] Scott. [02:05:46.160 --> 02:05:47.160] Hello. [02:05:47.160 --> 02:05:48.160] All right. [02:05:48.160 --> 02:05:49.160] You're following up here. [02:05:49.160 --> 02:05:50.160] I'm all done. [02:05:50.160 --> 02:05:51.160] I was listening in. [02:05:51.160 --> 02:05:52.160] What? [02:05:52.160 --> 02:05:53.160] Do you have a comment? [02:05:53.160 --> 02:05:54.160] Come on. [02:05:54.160 --> 02:05:55.160] Give us something. [02:05:55.160 --> 02:06:00.160] Well, during that last call, the voice of your pool player there, what was his name? [02:06:00.160 --> 02:06:11.200] Well, during that last call, the voice of your pool player there wasn't coming through. [02:06:11.200 --> 02:06:13.200] Oh, you couldn't hear him? [02:06:13.200 --> 02:06:14.200] Oh, no. [02:06:14.200 --> 02:06:18.240] Well, I don't know if it was any good or not, but I don't know. [02:06:18.240 --> 02:06:21.200] I think maybe like on your archive or whatever, you may not get that voice. [02:06:21.200 --> 02:06:22.200] Oh, yeah. [02:06:22.200 --> 02:06:23.200] It'll be on the archive. [02:06:23.200 --> 02:06:24.200] You know what? [02:06:24.200 --> 02:06:25.200] I'm sorry. [02:06:25.200 --> 02:06:26.200] I'm sorry. [02:06:26.200 --> 02:06:27.200] I was doing something new. [02:06:27.200 --> 02:06:28.200] He's my producer. [02:06:28.200 --> 02:06:34.880] That's a producer bridge, which is normally not patched to the caller board, and I'm sorry [02:06:34.880 --> 02:06:35.880] about that. [02:06:35.880 --> 02:06:36.880] Oh, that's all right. [02:06:36.880 --> 02:06:39.480] You can go back and hear it on the archive, though. [02:06:39.480 --> 02:06:42.560] What an excellent session tonight. [02:06:42.560 --> 02:06:43.560] Thank you. [02:06:43.560 --> 02:06:44.560] Excellent. [02:06:44.560 --> 02:06:48.200] Why, if everybody thinks so. [02:06:48.200 --> 02:06:51.920] I hope I wasn't too unruly, everybody. [02:06:51.920 --> 02:06:54.200] You were, but we're used to it. [02:06:54.200 --> 02:06:58.480] Do you have any questions for Eddie or us, Scott? [02:06:58.480 --> 02:06:59.480] Not tonight. [02:06:59.480 --> 02:07:00.480] All right. [02:07:00.480 --> 02:07:06.240] Well, thank you for tuning in, and thanks, Eddie, and Randy, and Scott. [02:07:06.240 --> 02:07:14.120] I'm sorry I failed to patch the producer bridge into the caller bridge, but you can go back [02:07:14.120 --> 02:07:16.320] and hear it on the archive if you like. [02:07:16.320 --> 02:07:17.320] Okay. [02:07:17.320 --> 02:07:18.320] Okay. [02:07:18.320 --> 02:07:19.320] Good night, all. [02:07:19.320 --> 02:07:20.320] All right. [02:07:20.320 --> 02:07:21.320] All right, Deborah. [02:07:21.320 --> 02:07:22.320] All right. [02:07:22.320 --> 02:07:23.320] We'll be back. [02:07:23.320 --> 02:07:25.680] We'll be back Monday night.