[00:00.000 --> 00:05.720]  This news brief brought to you by the International News Net.
[00:05.720 --> 00:10.160]  Russia has confirmed its contract to sell air-defensive missile systems to Iran.
[00:10.160 --> 00:16.320]  A top Russian defense official confirmed that a contract has existed for two years to supply
[00:16.320 --> 00:20.800]  the advanced S-300 surface-to-air defensive missile system to Iran.
[00:20.800 --> 00:25.520]  The spokesman was quick to point out that the missiles had yet to be delivered.
[00:25.520 --> 00:30.080]  In August, Israel claimed to have a secret electronic warfare device in development that
[00:30.080 --> 00:36.120]  would neutralize the system if used not just by Iran, but by Russia as well.
[00:36.120 --> 00:41.060]  Egypt reopened its Rafa border with Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip for two days beginning Wednesday
[00:41.060 --> 00:43.920]  to enable students and the Sikh to cross.
[00:43.920 --> 00:48.920]  The Raja crossing is the only one that bypasses Israel, but has been largely closed since
[00:48.920 --> 00:55.200]  June 2006 when Gaza militants captured Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier in a deadly cross-border
[00:55.200 --> 01:01.640]  raid.
[01:01.640 --> 01:06.580]  At the World Water Forum, which opened Wednesday in Istanbul, Turkey, 300 Turkish activists
[01:06.580 --> 01:09.980]  were confronted by 2,000 to 3,000 police.
[01:09.980 --> 01:14.640]  The peaceful protest escalated as police charged the crowd, firing water cannons, tear gas
[01:14.640 --> 01:16.280]  and rubber bullets.
[01:16.280 --> 01:21.340]  According to the World Health Organization, 2.6 billion people worldwide lack access to
[01:21.340 --> 01:26.560]  clean drinking water, and the issue has come to the forefront of the global agenda in these
[01:26.560 --> 01:29.180]  conferences.
[01:29.180 --> 01:33.480]  The American Civil Liberties Union called on Attorney General Eric Holder to appoint
[01:33.480 --> 01:39.080]  an independent prosecutor to investigate allegations of torture at CIA secret prisons.
[01:39.080 --> 01:43.520]  The demand followed the leak last weekend of a secret report by the International Committee
[01:43.520 --> 01:44.740]  of the Red Cross.
[01:44.740 --> 01:50.920]  The Red Cross reported in 2007 that some of the 14 detainees, whom U.S. officials considered
[01:50.920 --> 01:56.360]  high value, said they had been waterboarded, beaten, deprived of food and placed in coffin-like
[01:56.360 --> 02:00.120]  boxes among other dehumanizing techniques.
[02:00.120 --> 02:03.880]  The U.S. military would begin phasing out stop-loss in 2011.
[02:03.880 --> 02:08.720]  Stop-loss has been called a backdoor draft used by the U.S. military to shore up its
[02:08.720 --> 02:11.640]  numbers when volunteers can't be found.
[02:11.640 --> 02:15.720]  Secretary of Defense Robert Gates announced, quote, to hold them against their will is
[02:15.720 --> 02:17.480]  just not the right thing to do.
[02:17.480 --> 02:23.360]  The stop-loss rule was being used to hold around 13,000 people in the military against
[02:23.360 --> 02:27.400]  their will until 2011.
[02:27.400 --> 02:31.840]  Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd has admitted that he inserted a loophole in the stimulus
[02:31.840 --> 02:38.800]  legislation that allows multi-million dollar bonuses to insurance agent AIG to go forward.
[02:38.800 --> 03:01.240]  Dodd had previously denied any involvement in writing the controversial provision.
[03:01.240 --> 03:06.160]  Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo is seeking federal funding to implement a program for
[03:06.160 --> 03:10.160]  training police to withdraw blood from DWI suspects.
[03:10.160 --> 03:14.560]  Do you want our police to be able to stick a needle in your arm and take your blood on
[03:14.560 --> 03:18.400]  the side of the road with no search warrant or court order?
[03:18.400 --> 03:24.280]  This program is patently illegal, reckless, unconstitutional and life-threatening.
[03:24.280 --> 03:30.160]  Join us March 30th at 6 p.m. at Austin City Hall in the City Council Chambers for the
[03:30.160 --> 03:35.400]  Public Forum on Police Blood Withdrawals, sponsored by Texans for Accountable Government
[03:35.400 --> 03:37.800]  and Austin Campaign for Liberty.
[03:37.800 --> 03:43.600]  Speakers include Police Chief Art Acevedo, City Council Member Mike Martinez, TAG Steering
[03:43.600 --> 03:50.040]  Committee Rep John Bush, ACLU Central Texas Chapter President Debbie Russell and MAD Rep
[03:50.040 --> 03:51.680]  Karen Housewright.
[03:51.680 --> 03:57.480]  Be there March 30th at 6 p.m. at Austin City Hall and make your voice be heard on this
[03:57.480 --> 03:59.480]  very serious issue.
[03:59.480 --> 04:06.480]  You are listening to the Rule of Law Radio Network at ruleoflawradio.com, live free speech
[04:06.480 --> 04:27.400]  talk radio at its best.
[04:27.400 --> 04:34.400]  This program is patently illegal, reckless, unconstitutional and life-threatening.
[04:57.400 --> 05:04.400]  You are listening to the Rule of Law on Rule of Law Radio. I'm Deborah Stevens. I'm here
[05:04.400 --> 05:11.400]  with Randy Kelton. And we have a very special guest tonight, Mr. Gary Lochte. And he's going
[05:11.400 --> 05:18.400]  to be talking with us about foreclosures, mortgages, and Gary helps people save their
[05:26.720 --> 05:31.720]  homes from the evil banksters. Right, Randy?
[05:31.720 --> 05:48.720]  Yes. Now, Gary's been a long-time supporter. He's been with us since we started on WTPRN.
[05:48.720 --> 05:55.720]  And when he came, when he told me what he was doing, immediately I wanted to get him
[05:55.720 --> 06:02.720]  on the show because this sounds like something everyone can use. It may sound like an infomercial.
[06:02.720 --> 06:07.720]  It's not. Will you hear what he's offering, what he's got here? This is great. Gary, will
[06:07.720 --> 06:10.720]  you kind of let us know what you're doing?
[06:10.720 --> 06:14.720]  Sure. I'll be glad to, Randy. And Deborah and Randy, thank you both very much for letting
[06:14.720 --> 06:21.720]  me come on this evening. I know that everybody is hearing of the economic woes that have hit
[06:21.720 --> 06:27.720]  the country and actually the world. And one of the events that seems to be very, very
[06:27.720 --> 06:35.720]  commonplace now is people losing their homes due to foreclosure. And I need to preface
[06:35.720 --> 06:44.720]  this by saying that I am definitely a proponent of the very aggressive actions that a person
[06:44.720 --> 06:51.720]  can take in court against a lender. And I'm speaking there specifically about, you know,
[06:51.720 --> 06:57.720]  forcing them to produce the promissory note as evidence of the loan and evidence that
[06:57.720 --> 07:05.720]  they are a holder in due course. I'm all in favor of those arguments. However, with
[07:05.720 --> 07:16.720]  the court systems and the way the justices and judges are ruling, with something as imperative
[07:16.720 --> 07:22.720]  and something that needs to be guarded as much as your home, which where you raise your
[07:22.720 --> 07:29.720]  family and your kids, you do not want to go into a court setting on the defensive. And
[07:29.720 --> 07:36.720]  you especially do not want to enter a court in this arena unless you are absolutely completely
[07:36.720 --> 07:42.720]  prepared to deal with the roadblocks that they're going to throw up. Randy, you may
[07:42.720 --> 07:52.720]  recall a conversation that you and I had earlier, and that was that what we offer is a loan
[07:52.720 --> 07:58.720]  mitigation and modification service. And what we do, if a person is concerned that they
[07:58.720 --> 08:03.720]  are entering into a dangerous area with their mortgage, if they're concerned that they're
[08:03.720 --> 08:09.720]  not going to be able to pay it, or if they're actually in arrears or even in foreclosure,
[08:09.720 --> 08:15.720]  that's not the time to do a quick study and go to court and try to win your house. That's
[08:15.720 --> 08:23.720]  the time to come to someone like us and let us go in and we are, we hard negotiate with
[08:23.720 --> 08:31.720]  your lender to get them to back down off of late fees, get them to back down off of floating
[08:31.720 --> 08:37.720]  and high interest rates, get them to back down off of the foreclosure action, and we
[08:37.720 --> 08:49.720]  get them to modify your loan. And modification, what it is not, it is not a refinance, therefore
[08:49.720 --> 08:57.720]  you have none of the typical refinance fees. You have no title company fees, no loan fees,
[08:57.720 --> 09:04.720]  no points, no surveys, no appraisals, no loan officer profit fees, and no credit qualifying.
[09:04.720 --> 09:11.720]  None of that comes into play. We go straight to the heart of the deal strictly with the
[09:11.720 --> 09:21.720]  loss mitigation teams at these mortgage lenders. We have people on staff, including staff attorneys,
[09:21.720 --> 09:27.720]  that know how to read a RESPA, know how to read a Truth in Lending form, and know how
[09:27.720 --> 09:35.720]  to read the loan documents. And if necessary, we will pin these guys up against the wall
[09:35.720 --> 09:45.720]  because almost 95% of all of your loan paperwork has faults that can nullify that loan. If
[09:45.720 --> 09:51.720]  necessary, we find them, we point them out, and we get your loan modified, get you safe
[09:51.720 --> 09:59.720]  again with your lender, get you on a payment that is budgetable according to your circumstances
[09:59.720 --> 10:05.720]  now. You know, Randy, we have, and Deborah, we have people that are losing their homes
[10:05.720 --> 10:12.720]  because they've lost the job, they've had health issues, the general failing economy,
[10:12.720 --> 10:19.720]  loss of profit, business turned down, sales turned down, just a myriad of reasons. And
[10:19.720 --> 10:28.720]  these hardships all qualify you in most cases. These types of hardships qualify you to enter
[10:28.720 --> 10:38.720]  into loan modification. We will go in, we'll get you a lower interest rate, we will put
[10:38.720 --> 10:44.720]  you on a fixed rather than floating if you happen to be on an arm loan or some type of
[10:44.720 --> 10:51.720]  variable loan. In many cases, we can actually attain a reduction of principal for you where
[10:51.720 --> 10:58.720]  the lender actually forgives tens of thousands of dollars of principal that you just never
[10:58.720 --> 11:04.720]  have to pay back. They actually amend their contract to help the homeowner. We can work
[11:04.720 --> 11:10.720]  longer payout periods, which helps to lower the monthly payment obligation, and we also
[11:10.720 --> 11:20.720]  negotiate forgiveness of payment of defaults and fees. So, again, I think that the timing
[11:20.720 --> 11:32.720]  of this is critical. I was just reading an article today, which was from foreclosures.com,
[11:32.720 --> 11:39.720]  and it's entitled, Were Foreclosures a Part of the Plan for the Economy? And this is a
[11:39.720 --> 11:47.720]  pretty damning article, which does provide some evidence to indicate that the lenders
[11:47.720 --> 11:55.720]  knew that this was coming and that they don't really mind the foreclosure losses, because
[11:55.720 --> 12:01.720]  remember, these are the lenders that are getting these incredible bailouts to compensate their
[12:01.720 --> 12:08.720]  balance sheets. So, there could have been something sinister about this. We don't know,
[12:08.720 --> 12:14.720]  and frankly, I don't care about that. The only thing I do care about is that people
[12:14.720 --> 12:22.720]  know that there is an alternative, a very good alternative to going into default on
[12:22.720 --> 12:28.720]  a mortgage home, on a mortgage on your home, and there is a very good alternative to foreclosure,
[12:28.720 --> 12:34.720]  and that is the loss modification and loan modification process.
[12:34.720 --> 12:39.720]  Now, Gary, you're not new to this, to real estate, are you?
[12:39.720 --> 12:45.720]  No, sir, I'm not. No, sir, I'm not. I've been a licensed loan officer since I started
[12:45.720 --> 12:52.720]  licensing officers back in 2000, and I was a loan officer prior to the time that licenses
[12:52.720 --> 13:00.720]  were required. And I've been around the real estate and lending for quite a long time,
[13:00.720 --> 13:06.720]  and also been around the automobile finance and leasing for a long time. So, I've got
[13:06.720 --> 13:15.720]  a background dealing with these financial instruments, and this particular process is
[13:15.720 --> 13:23.720]  the first real find that has absolutely excited me because it offers real remedy to people
[13:23.720 --> 13:30.720]  and gets these mortgage people, mortgage lenders, off their back and puts them in a position
[13:30.720 --> 13:35.720]  where they can take a deep breath, where they're no longer in fear of losing their home because
[13:35.720 --> 13:41.720]  they've got a new payment stream that they can afford based on their current circumstances.
[13:41.720 --> 13:48.720]  When we were talking, you mentioned some legislation that enabled this.
[13:48.720 --> 13:58.720]  Yes, sir. This really started several years ago, and back in – let me check my notes
[13:58.720 --> 14:07.720]  here. I believe back as early as 2007, there was a committee that was set up to – I don't
[14:07.720 --> 14:12.720]  have the notes here with me, but there was actually legislation where the Congress went
[14:12.720 --> 14:21.720]  in and amended the bankruptcy laws and also amended the laws dealing with homeowners who
[14:21.720 --> 14:29.720]  live in a homestead because they saw this coming as early as 2007 and actually changed
[14:29.720 --> 14:37.720]  the laws prior to this bubble hitting. So, the word was out. The guys at the top knew
[14:37.720 --> 14:41.720]  it was coming. According to the article that I read today, the guys at the top may have
[14:41.720 --> 14:47.720]  planned it to happen. I'm not so sure that they planned what we do because we go in and
[14:47.720 --> 14:53.720]  we save people so that the banks don't get the collateral back, the homeowners get
[14:53.720 --> 14:58.720]  to keep their collateral and pay their loans off in due time.
[14:58.720 --> 15:02.720]  Well, I can see where this would be advantage to the bank because they're not worried
[15:02.720 --> 15:09.720]  about the money. It was just an entry ledger when they loaned it out.
[15:09.720 --> 15:10.720]  Correct.
[15:10.720 --> 15:15.720]  And the money they created from error goes back to error, but they're still sitting
[15:15.720 --> 15:18.720]  there with the equity, with the property.
[15:18.720 --> 15:27.720]  That's correct. It's very, very interesting that when you consider that the lenders really
[15:27.720 --> 15:38.720]  lent nothing, you sign the collateral over to them. If the process is not abated, in
[15:38.720 --> 15:45.720]  other words, if the homeowner doesn't bring in someone like us to go in and negotiate
[15:45.720 --> 15:51.720]  their modification for them, then the lender ends up with property that they really didn't
[15:51.720 --> 15:57.720]  put anything into. And on top of that, they've got all the bailout money to bring their
[15:57.720 --> 16:05.720]  balance sheets back in order. So, it is just one horrific scam that's going on right now.
[16:05.720 --> 16:12.720]  And Americans just don't need to lose. There are ways to fight this thing, and that's
[16:12.720 --> 16:18.720]  what we do. We go in there and we swing hard to get these homeowners in a position so that
[16:18.720 --> 16:20.720]  they can stay in their homes.
[16:20.720 --> 16:31.720]  If you get the note renegotiated and get out of arrears and in a comfortable place, when
[16:31.720 --> 16:38.720]  we come back from break, I'd like to explore how likely it is for you to be able to go
[16:38.720 --> 16:45.720]  after these lenders for their bogus notes when you're not in arrears so you're not
[16:45.720 --> 16:46.720]  on the defensive.
[16:46.720 --> 16:47.720]  Very good.
[16:47.720 --> 16:54.720]  There, Deb. We're about to go to break. We'll be right back. This is Randy Kelton and
[16:54.720 --> 16:57.720]  Deborah Stevens, Real Law with Gary Lawson.
[16:57.720 --> 17:04.720]  Are you looking for an investment that has no stock market risk? Has a 100% track record
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[17:40.720 --> 17:46.720]  We charge absolutely no commissions. 100% of your investment goes to work for you. Please
[17:46.720 --> 17:58.720]  visit sleepwellinvestment.com or call Bill Schober at 817-975-2431. That's sleepwellinvestment.com
[17:58.720 --> 18:17.720]  or call 817-975-2431.
[18:28.720 --> 18:56.720]  Thank you.
[18:58.720 --> 19:11.720]  All right, we're back in. When we dropped out, I was contemplating this, you know, we
[19:11.720 --> 19:17.720]  have a lot of people attacking these mortgages for being false and the person who's collecting
[19:17.720 --> 19:24.720]  the money from you, when he comes to foreclose, it turns out he can't prove that he's the
[19:24.720 --> 19:30.720]  real party in interest. So after I talked to Gary about this, I thought about it and
[19:30.720 --> 19:36.720]  if these guys are coming after you and you get it clear, so they're not in a position
[19:36.720 --> 19:45.720]  to come after you anymore, it would seem a much better time to attack them than when
[19:45.720 --> 19:49.720]  they have the upper hand. Gary.
[19:49.720 --> 19:50.720]  Yes, sir.
[19:50.720 --> 19:51.720]  Your opinion on that.
[19:51.720 --> 19:57.720]  Well, I think that that's absolutely correct and I'll restate what I had mentioned earlier
[19:57.720 --> 20:08.720]  and that is that you are much more in control in any type of a legal proceeding when you
[20:08.720 --> 20:15.720]  bring the cause of action to a defendant rather than when they bring a cause of action and
[20:15.720 --> 20:24.720]  you're the defendant. When you posture yourself as the plaintiff in a cause of action, they
[20:24.720 --> 20:30.720]  really have nothing on you because you're, you know, you're not at fault anywhere and
[20:30.720 --> 20:36.720]  in this case, if a person is either sensing that they're going to get in trouble on their
[20:36.720 --> 20:41.720]  mortgage or they're already in trouble, we say, you know, don't abandon the aggressive
[20:41.720 --> 20:51.720]  tactics at all, but let's don't put your home at risk and go into battle as a defendant
[20:51.720 --> 20:57.720]  in this case. Let's get your home secured. Let's get your payment stream where you are
[20:57.720 --> 21:03.720]  once again comfortable and you know that you can make that monthly mortgage without any
[21:03.720 --> 21:10.720]  fear or hesitation. Then when the pressure's off of you and when you have, in essence,
[21:10.720 --> 21:17.720]  nothing to lose when you're not the target, then you can do the due diligence or you can
[21:17.720 --> 21:26.720]  hire people that are competent and experienced to go into the court with a cause of action
[21:26.720 --> 21:32.720]  against a lender and then that, then you can bring up all of these errors that they made,
[21:32.720 --> 21:37.720]  force them to produce the note and there's also several other things that can be done
[21:37.720 --> 21:42.720]  and I want to clarify something here. I've heard, there's a number of callers that I've
[21:42.720 --> 21:50.720]  heard on your show and other shows that seem to have these almost like a magic bullet and
[21:50.720 --> 21:57.720]  I want to tell you there is not a magic bullet. You can go into a court and you may be successful
[21:57.720 --> 22:04.720]  by forcing a lender to produce the note and you may not be successful. It depends on your
[22:04.720 --> 22:10.720]  judge and the way that the courts are being run right now, I would not want to jeopardize
[22:10.720 --> 22:18.720]  my family's home at all, not with that strategy. I'd much rather get, as we mentioned, I'd
[22:18.720 --> 22:24.720]  much rather get in a position where I'm safe and then go in as a plaintiff and take a cause
[22:24.720 --> 22:28.720]  of action against these people and I want to make this statement, this is what brought
[22:28.720 --> 22:38.720]  us into this topic on this segment. The mitigation and modification process that we do does not
[22:38.720 --> 22:45.720]  cause the borrower to waive any rights or any rights of actionable causes against the
[22:45.720 --> 22:58.720]  borrower. Did we lose you, Gary? I think we might have lost him. He may need to call back
[22:58.720 --> 23:08.720]  in. Well, he shows to be up on the board. Well, until we get him back, I've talked to
[23:08.720 --> 23:14.720]  a lot of people on this issue on taking on the mortgage companies and one of the things
[23:14.720 --> 23:28.720]  I found that kind of left them uncomfortable was they feel like they don't want to get
[23:28.720 --> 23:33.720]  the whole mortgage thrown out because they feel like they owe the money. They don't want
[23:33.720 --> 23:39.720]  something for nothing. They don't want to cheat someone else. And it's hard to get them
[23:39.720 --> 23:50.720]  to look at the lender as a thief and a fraud when they're unable to pay their bill. So
[23:50.720 --> 23:58.720]  if we can get the borrower in a position to where he's out of this trouble, then he can
[23:58.720 --> 24:05.720]  go back and look at his note, look at the kinds of money he's having to pay and Tony
[24:05.720 --> 24:13.720]  Davis is dealing with some folks, three engineers who have developed a program to analyze your
[24:13.720 --> 24:19.720]  mortgage and they said they've yet to look at a mortgage that didn't have major errors
[24:19.720 --> 24:29.720]  in it and they've never analyzed a mortgage that had errors in your favor. The mistake
[24:29.720 --> 24:35.720]  was always in the bank's favor for some strange reason. You back up, Gary?
[24:35.720 --> 24:36.720]  Yeah, I'm here.
[24:36.720 --> 24:38.720]  Good. Okay, go ahead.
[24:38.720 --> 24:45.720]  Okay, I'm not sure where the phone lost me, but I just wanted to restate that our mitigation
[24:45.720 --> 24:51.720]  and modification process does not cause the borrower to waive any rights or does not cause
[24:51.720 --> 24:57.720]  them to lose the right to bring an actionable cause against the lender. It has nothing to
[24:57.720 --> 25:05.720]  do with that. It's not a refinance. All it is is a negotiated modification agreement
[25:05.720 --> 25:14.720]  that binds both the lender and the borrower to the new terms of the note.
[25:14.720 --> 25:17.720]  So you lose no legal standing of any kind?
[25:17.720 --> 25:19.720]  Not at all.
[25:19.720 --> 25:20.720]  Good.
[25:20.720 --> 25:27.720]  Not at all. Yeah, and we think that that's very important. We think that's very, very
[25:27.720 --> 25:33.720]  important. Again, what we do is through a series of negotiations, and I need to tell
[25:33.720 --> 25:39.720]  you, this is just not a couple of guys getting together and calling up a lender. Our team
[25:39.720 --> 25:47.720]  is comprised of people who are mortgage and lending specialists, attorneys who specialize
[25:47.720 --> 25:53.720]  in the understanding and promissory note. They understand real estate law. They understand
[25:53.720 --> 26:00.720]  these respas and these truth and lending documents that are all part of your loan process.
[26:00.720 --> 26:08.720]  And we play hardball. I want to tell you that one of the things we caution our customers
[26:08.720 --> 26:17.720]  is we put them on notice that once we begin this negotiation with the lender, I guarantee
[26:17.720 --> 26:23.720]  the lender's going to be calling you up and offering you all sorts of little nuggets trying
[26:23.720 --> 26:31.720]  to get you away from our process. And they're going to try and get you to agree to a much
[26:31.720 --> 26:38.720]  less beneficial modification. We tell our people, just be courteous and say, no, thanks.
[26:38.720 --> 26:43.720]  I've got a professional team working on this, and I do not wish to discuss my loan with
[26:43.720 --> 26:47.720]  you any further. Just hang up the phone. You're done. You don't need to have any conversation
[26:47.720 --> 26:50.720]  with them once we come into the picture.
[26:50.720 --> 26:55.720]  It's kind of like the last ticket I got, and they called me in for this hearing, and the
[26:55.720 --> 26:59.720]  judge wasn't there, and the prosecutor wanted to talk to me. And I told him, I don't talk
[26:59.720 --> 27:01.720]  to prosecutors.
[27:01.720 --> 27:02.720]  Right.
[27:02.720 --> 27:06.720]  You're not here to help me. You're here to screw me around.
[27:06.720 --> 27:14.720]  Right. Right. And you know, Randy, there's other little benefits that are very, very
[27:14.720 --> 27:21.720]  helpful to the homeowner. For example, let's talk about briefly, let's say somebody owes
[27:21.720 --> 27:27.720]  $200,000 on their mortgage, and maybe because of the decline in property values, their home
[27:27.720 --> 27:33.720]  is only worth $150,000 only. That's a nice home, I think. But let's say that they were
[27:33.720 --> 27:40.720]  upside down in their home by $50,000, and they want to sell that home, and they can't.
[27:40.720 --> 27:49.720]  Well, another service that we offer is we'll go in and negotiate a modification in that
[27:49.720 --> 27:58.720]  case, and get that lender to forgive whatever balance owing is necessary so that that borrower
[27:58.720 --> 28:04.720]  can sell their home at the current market value or the current offer. And you know,
[28:04.720 --> 28:13.720]  in that case, our little-o service pales in comparison to that $50,000 lowering of their
[28:13.720 --> 28:14.720]  mortgage balance.
[28:14.720 --> 28:15.720]  Right.
[28:15.720 --> 28:19.720]  There's an example of something else that we do to help people sell their property,
[28:19.720 --> 28:22.720]  as opposed to being stuck and not being able to move on.
[28:22.720 --> 28:24.720]  Yeah, that could be extremely valuable.
[28:24.720 --> 28:26.720]  It's just incredible. Yeah.
[28:26.720 --> 28:33.720]  Randy, listen, we've got Steve Skidmore on the line here, and he was a host on WTPRN
[28:33.720 --> 28:42.720]  with us, and he did a show on fraud and this sort of topic. So I would like to bring Steve
[28:42.720 --> 28:50.720]  up on the line so that we could get his input on what Gary is saying.
[28:50.720 --> 28:52.720]  Good. Let's do that.
[28:52.720 --> 28:58.720]  Okay. All right. Well, now he's dropped off. As soon as I said, okay, there he is. There
[28:58.720 --> 29:01.720]  he is. He's back. Okay. Steve.
[29:01.720 --> 29:02.720]  Yes.
[29:02.720 --> 29:03.720]  Steve, thanks for calling in.
[29:03.720 --> 29:05.720]  Thank you for taking my call, Debra.
[29:05.720 --> 29:08.720]  Yeah. Do you have some comments on what Gary is saying?
[29:08.720 --> 29:19.720]  Yes. Gary, I've been studying fraud and studying mortgage issues for a good while, and I've
[29:19.720 --> 29:26.720]  been listening to the show, and I hear you saying that the lenders have absolutely nothing
[29:26.720 --> 29:35.720]  invested in the loan. So therefore, there is fraud right there. You find-
[29:35.720 --> 29:38.720]  Okay. Steve, wait. Hold on. Hold on. We're going to break.
[29:38.720 --> 29:39.720]  Okay.
[29:39.720 --> 29:42.720]  All right, Steve. We'll let you finish on the other side. All right. This is the Rule
[29:42.720 --> 29:48.720]  of Law, Randy Kelton and Debra Stevens on ruleoflawradio.com. We'll be right back after
[29:48.720 --> 29:51.720]  the break. We're here with Gary Lochte, very special guest, and we'll be talking with
[29:51.720 --> 29:58.720]  Steve Skidmore as soon as we get back.
[29:58.720 --> 30:02.720]  Gold prices are at historic highs, and with the recent pullback, this is a great time
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[30:07.720 --> 30:12.720]  and instability in world financial systems, I see gold going up much higher. Hi, I'm Tim
[30:12.720 --> 30:17.720]  Fry at Roberts and Roberts Brokerage. Everybody should have some of their assets in investment-grade
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[30:58.720 --> 31:02.720]  Hello, listeners. Have you ever wondered if UFOs are real? Is there really a flying saucer
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[31:10.720 --> 31:15.720]  and researcher Jim Mars will be at the bookstore to explain the answers to these questions
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[31:37.720 --> 31:42.720]  his lecture at 7 p.m. on Saturday, March 21st at Brave New Books. The bookstore is located
[31:42.720 --> 31:47.720]  at 1904 Guadalupe Street at the corner of MLK and Guadalupe. This is sure to be a popular
[31:47.720 --> 31:50.720]  event, so please come early. If you have any questions, please call the bookstore at
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[31:57.720 --> 32:21.720]  Thank you.
[32:27.720 --> 32:32.720]  When you're gonna stop abuse your power
[32:32.720 --> 32:38.720]  When you're gonna stop abuse your power
[32:38.720 --> 32:43.720]  When you're gonna stop abuse your power
[32:43.720 --> 32:49.720]  So please Mr. Michael, teach officers not to abuse their power
[32:49.720 --> 32:54.720]  Send a request to the leader, the captain of all officers
[32:54.720 --> 32:59.720]  Tell them to uphold the law and please don't abuse their power
[32:59.720 --> 33:05.720]  They beat and they beat and they cheat and they cheat and they lie every hour
[33:05.720 --> 33:10.720]  So Mr. Officer, please stop abusing your power
[33:10.720 --> 33:16.720]  You pull me over and tell me to be silent, sir
[33:16.720 --> 33:21.720]  I need to speak to my lawyer, Mr. Officer
[33:21.720 --> 33:26.720]  I feel like you're the judge, finding me guilty, sir
[33:26.720 --> 33:31.720]  So when you're gonna stop abuse your power
[33:31.720 --> 33:35.720]  When are you gonna stop abusing your power?
[33:35.720 --> 33:40.720]  Only when we make them stop, I suppose. That is the newest, latest release, brand new.
[33:40.720 --> 33:45.720]  Just mixed that song, Jerry and I just mixed that song a couple nights ago.
[33:45.720 --> 33:50.720]  Brand new material from the Three Shoes Posse, that's my band.
[33:50.720 --> 33:55.720]  It's Three Shoes Posse.com, you can either spell it out T-H-R-E-E
[33:55.720 --> 34:00.720]  Or the number three, Three Shoes Posse.com
[34:00.720 --> 34:05.720]  And for those of you who do not know what that means, it means that we give the bad guys three shoes
[34:05.720 --> 34:10.720]  Two on their feet and one you know with
[34:10.720 --> 34:15.720]  And that's what Gary Lochte is doing and so is our other guest who has joined us, Dale Nathan
[34:15.720 --> 34:20.720]  An attorney out of Minnesota, he's gonna be making commentary and also speaking
[34:20.720 --> 34:25.720]  To the corruption in the state court system
[34:25.720 --> 34:30.720]  Right now we are talking about mortgage and fraud, mortgage fraud
[34:30.720 --> 34:35.720]  We've got Steve Skidmore on the line from Endless Fraud Detection
[34:35.720 --> 34:40.720]  He was a host on WTPRN with us, Steve thank you for calling in and thank you for
[34:40.720 --> 34:45.720]  Staying on the line till the other side of the break, would you please continue with what you were saying
[34:45.720 --> 34:50.720]  Thank you, absolutely, Mr. Lochte
[34:50.720 --> 34:55.720]  Just call me Gary
[34:55.720 --> 35:00.720]  I don't want to take a shot at you, I'm just curious, I mentioned you noted
[35:00.720 --> 35:05.720]  That the alleged lender has absolutely no physical monetary investment
[35:05.720 --> 35:10.720]  In the alleged loan and I'm sure you're finding numerous
[35:10.720 --> 35:15.720]  Violations of Title V, TILA, HOPA, RESPA, Title XV, Fair Debt Collection
[35:15.720 --> 35:20.720]  Practice Act, RICO, Title XVIII, but you're suggesting
[35:20.720 --> 35:25.720]  Just a swat on the hand and you're clearly with these
[35:25.720 --> 35:30.720]  Violations that you've got to be writing some of these notes, you've not mentioned
[35:30.720 --> 35:35.720]  A word of compensatory damages owed to
[35:35.720 --> 35:40.720]  Your client from the fraud that's been perpetuated on them, I'm just wondering
[35:40.720 --> 35:45.720]  Why you stop so short of the potential
[35:45.720 --> 35:50.720]  I don't know if you've heard the preceding segments, but
[35:50.720 --> 35:55.720]  We're taking the position, we're focused on one aspect of it
[35:55.720 --> 36:00.720]  That is to bring the homeowner
[36:00.720 --> 36:05.720]  Who is in trouble or approaching trouble with the mortgage lender, our goal
[36:05.720 --> 36:10.720]  And our only focus is to bring them into an area of safety
[36:10.720 --> 36:15.720]  Where they are no longer under the gun and under the threat
[36:15.720 --> 36:20.720]  Of losing their home or their homestead property or for that matter
[36:20.720 --> 36:25.720]  Our process also works on non-owner occupied rental property and things of that
[36:25.720 --> 36:30.720]  Nature, so our focus is to bring that
[36:30.720 --> 36:35.720]  Homeowner into the area of safety, take all the pressure off them
[36:35.720 --> 36:40.720]  Take the target off their back, give them some breathing room
[36:40.720 --> 36:45.720]  And then if they want to proceed further, I will not do it
[36:45.720 --> 36:50.720]  But I will assist them in locating
[36:50.720 --> 36:55.720]  People who can be effective at taking these more aggressive
[36:55.720 --> 37:00.720]  Procedures in a court setting
[37:00.720 --> 37:05.720]  And again, it's not, I need to say
[37:05.720 --> 37:10.720]  Experientially, you and I both know and there's plenty of people that know
[37:10.720 --> 37:15.720]  That there are holes in this lending scheme
[37:15.720 --> 37:20.720]  We say don't go into this
[37:20.720 --> 37:25.720]  When you have so much to lose, get the target off your back first
[37:25.720 --> 37:30.720]  And then enter into the next arena if you will
[37:30.720 --> 37:35.720]  Where you are a plaintiff and you can bring these more aggressive tactics into the court setting
[37:35.720 --> 37:40.720]  I want to say that we're focused on that aspect
[37:40.720 --> 37:45.720]  We don't deal with bringing a customer in
[37:45.720 --> 37:50.720]  As a plaintiff, that's not our focus, that's not what we do
[37:50.720 --> 37:55.720]  I can tell you from experience, going in when you're the aggressor, when you pick the fight
[37:55.720 --> 38:00.720]  It's a lot more fun and a lot less threatening
[38:00.720 --> 38:05.720]  That's a far bigger advantage than being a plaintiff
[38:05.720 --> 38:10.720]  Or if you're being forced into the situation as a defendant to bring to the table all of these violations
[38:10.720 --> 38:15.720]  And be therefore a
[38:15.720 --> 38:20.720]  What do you call, not a co-defendant
[38:20.720 --> 38:25.720]  Oh dear, I've forgotten the word
[38:25.720 --> 38:30.720]  Not the defender
[38:30.720 --> 38:35.720]  You become the plaintiff
[38:35.720 --> 38:40.720]  That's about all I had for you
[38:40.720 --> 38:45.720]  I'm sorry I didn't hear the whole show
[38:45.720 --> 38:50.720]  I was just curious as to why you weren't taking it to the full potential
[38:50.720 --> 38:55.720]  Once you're clear, once you got that off your back
[38:55.720 --> 39:00.720]  Now you can back up and take a good look at this
[39:00.720 --> 39:05.720]  I talk to people that when they're in this trouble about how the mortgage company is cheating them
[39:05.720 --> 39:10.720]  And they say, well, you know, I owe this debt
[39:10.720 --> 39:15.720]  And when they're under this kind of threat and they can't pay the debt, they feel guilty about it
[39:15.720 --> 39:20.720]  Once we get them out from under the threat of these guys taking their house
[39:20.720 --> 39:25.720]  Now they can sit back and think clearly and formulate a better plan to go after these guys
[39:25.720 --> 39:30.720]  Not because you owe or don't owe, it's because they're fraudulent
[39:30.720 --> 39:35.720]  And if you allow them to defraud you, they're going to defraud your children as well
[39:35.720 --> 39:40.720]  And we'd hope it'd be easier, we'd get more traction as well
[39:40.720 --> 39:45.720]  Always the plaintiff has more traction
[40:10.720 --> 40:15.720]  Thank you
[40:40.720 --> 40:45.720]  My home rescue team
[40:45.720 --> 40:50.720]  My home rescue team at yahoo.com
[40:50.720 --> 40:55.720]  And all you need to do is just give me your name and contact phone number and best time to call
[40:55.720 --> 41:00.720]  If you're not sure that we can help you, call
[41:00.720 --> 41:05.720]  Let's talk about your situation, let's see if we can help you
[41:05.720 --> 41:10.720]  That there are many, many, many companies
[41:10.720 --> 41:15.720]  That are kind of popping out of the woodwork now that are offering rescue
[41:15.720 --> 41:20.720]  Or mortgage rescue, it's all over the internet, it's all everywhere
[41:20.720 --> 41:25.720]  Be very cautious, I just got a letter from the Texas Attorney General that shut down
[41:25.720 --> 41:30.720]  A mitigation service in Texas because they were taking people's money
[41:30.720 --> 41:35.720]  And doing nothing about it and people losing their homes
[41:35.720 --> 41:40.720]  And on that aspect I want to make sure and bring up this point
[41:40.720 --> 41:45.720]  We will discuss your case with you and we will actually make a written offer
[41:45.720 --> 41:50.720]  As to what we believe we can accomplish for you
[41:50.720 --> 41:55.720]  No money changes hands until you say, I like what you're saying
[41:55.720 --> 42:00.720]  If you like what we say we believe we can do, that's the only time money changes hands
[42:00.720 --> 42:05.720]  In other words, we kind of do a free evaluation
[42:05.720 --> 42:10.720]  And free pre-qualification for you
[42:10.720 --> 42:15.720]  If you like what we offer, then after that we'll sign an agreement
[42:15.720 --> 42:20.720]  And our agreement is very favorable to you, if you're not satisfied with what we actually end up with
[42:20.720 --> 42:25.720]  You get 100% of your money back
[42:25.720 --> 42:30.720]  Period, so we're not out to scam anybody
[42:30.720 --> 42:35.720]  We're out to try and help homeowners that need help, our fees are extremely reasonable
[42:35.720 --> 42:40.720]  In fact they're right at the bottom of the market
[42:40.720 --> 42:45.720]  I think that people that are in trouble like this, we don't want to go out and charge them $5,000, $6,000
[42:45.720 --> 42:50.720]  And they need help, we're not going to do that, fees are very reasonable and we offer a 100% money back guarantee
[42:50.720 --> 42:55.720]  So I think that's pretty fair
[42:55.720 --> 43:00.720]  You can't beat that, well you could beat it if you did everything for free
[43:00.720 --> 43:05.720]  I couldn't do it for long
[43:05.720 --> 43:10.720]  This will keep you in business, I really wish you luck
[43:10.720 --> 43:15.720]  I believe that there are a lot of people out there who will look at this and find it of a great advantage
[43:15.720 --> 43:20.720]  Well Randy, we certainly endeavor
[43:20.720 --> 43:25.720]  We certainly hope that people will contact us
[43:25.720 --> 43:30.720]  They don't have to be in trouble yet, don't wait until you're in trouble
[43:30.720 --> 43:35.720]  If you see the storm approaching, call us, take shelter
[43:35.720 --> 43:40.720]  Thank you very much Gary
[43:40.720 --> 43:45.720]  Thanks for letting me be on your program
[43:45.720 --> 43:50.720]  Next we're going to bring up our guest, Dale Nathan
[43:50.720 --> 43:55.720]  Who's going to help us talk about Gale's situation and what we can do about it
[43:55.720 --> 44:06.720]  Gale of Minnesota will be right back
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[45:40.720 --> 46:09.720]  Thank you very much
[46:10.720 --> 46:15.720]  Thank you very much
[46:40.720 --> 46:45.720]  This is the Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[46:45.720 --> 46:50.720]  On RuleOfLawRadio.com
[46:50.720 --> 46:55.720]  We are here with our second guest tonight, Attorney Dale Nathan
[46:55.720 --> 47:00.720]  And he is going to discuss with us about Gale's situation
[47:00.720 --> 47:05.720]  And what he's going to do about Gale's situation
[47:05.720 --> 47:10.720]  Attorney Dale Nathan
[47:10.720 --> 47:15.720]  And he is going to discuss with us, opening, concerning specific solutions
[47:15.720 --> 47:20.720]  What we can do about these problems, the corruption in the court system
[47:20.720 --> 47:25.720]  Dale's from Minnesota
[47:25.720 --> 47:30.720]  And in doing this show, I used to say that of all the calls we get
[47:30.720 --> 47:35.720]  I thought that Florida was probably the most corrupt state
[47:35.720 --> 47:40.720]  But now, I think Minnesota may well be worse than Florida
[47:40.720 --> 47:45.720]  So he's certainly in the right place to be looking for solutions
[47:45.720 --> 47:48.720]  Dale, welcome to the show
[47:48.720 --> 47:51.720]  Randy, it's a real pleasure and an honor to be on your show
[47:51.720 --> 47:55.720]  And I greatly appreciate you having me
[47:55.720 --> 48:00.720]  Randy, give us kind of an idea of what the situation is
[48:00.720 --> 48:03.720]  And what kind of solutions you have
[48:03.720 --> 48:07.720]  Randy, a great, great many people all throughout our country
[48:07.720 --> 48:09.720]  And you know this, of course
[48:09.720 --> 48:15.720]  Are very frustrated with the legal system they have to contend with
[48:15.720 --> 48:19.720]  They often find that they can't cope with the system
[48:19.720 --> 48:22.720]  That they run into problems
[48:22.720 --> 48:25.720]  They don't get justice
[48:25.720 --> 48:29.720]  And these people are asking, what can we do?
[48:29.720 --> 48:32.720]  How can we fix our system?
[48:32.720 --> 48:37.720]  And I and people I've worked with have come up with some proposed solutions
[48:37.720 --> 48:41.720]  And we would like the people to know about them
[48:41.720 --> 48:45.720]  And how they can help fix our system
[48:45.720 --> 48:47.720]  Wonderful
[48:47.720 --> 48:49.720]  Where do we start?
[48:49.720 --> 48:53.720]  I think we start with a very, very simple concept
[48:53.720 --> 48:56.720]  And that's called accountability
[48:56.720 --> 49:01.720]  Now, Randy, you are always held accountable for what you do
[49:01.720 --> 49:06.720]  Almost everyone is responsible for their actions
[49:06.720 --> 49:11.720]  And if they take the wrong kinds of actions, there are consequences
[49:11.720 --> 49:14.720]  That is not true with respect to judges
[49:14.720 --> 49:19.720]  It's not true with respect to what we call judicial officials
[49:19.720 --> 49:24.720]  They can pretty much do anything they want and get away with it
[49:24.720 --> 49:29.720]  Even if they commit wrongs, even if they are unjust
[49:29.720 --> 49:34.720]  Even if they ignore laws, ignore the rules of procedure
[49:34.720 --> 49:39.720]  And so we have put together a proposed law
[49:39.720 --> 49:48.720]  That would make judges and judicial officials accountable for what they do to others
[49:48.720 --> 49:54.720]  What do you think of making judges and judge officials accountable for their actions?
[49:54.720 --> 50:00.720]  This is precisely what my ultimate purpose is
[50:00.720 --> 50:04.720]  In doing what I do, I need to know where I'm going
[50:04.720 --> 50:10.720]  Because if I don't know where I'm going, good chance I'll wind up somewhere else
[50:10.720 --> 50:13.720]  Well, where I'm trying to go is
[50:13.720 --> 50:16.720]  I want to put every judge in a position such that
[50:16.720 --> 50:21.720]  When he steps out behind the bench and looks out across the bar at the gallery
[50:21.720 --> 50:24.720]  I want him wondering which one
[50:24.720 --> 50:28.720]  Which one of those jacklegs out there are waiting for me to render a ruling he thinks is improper
[50:28.720 --> 50:31.720]  So he can run down and try to get me indicted
[50:31.720 --> 50:34.720]  Exactly, you're right on
[50:34.720 --> 50:39.720]  Now what we did is we put together a proposed law
[50:39.720 --> 50:43.720]  Many times that is referred to as a bill
[50:43.720 --> 50:47.720]  And we took our proposed law to the legislature
[50:47.720 --> 50:51.720]  And what we said to our legislature is
[50:51.720 --> 50:54.720]  If you will pass a law like this
[50:54.720 --> 51:00.720]  That sets up an accountability board for judges
[51:00.720 --> 51:07.720]  And if we spell out the consequences for judges not following the law
[51:07.720 --> 51:11.720]  Not following the constitutions
[51:11.720 --> 51:14.720]  Not following the rules of procedure
[51:14.720 --> 51:18.720]  Retaliating against, for example, lawyers
[51:18.720 --> 51:23.720]  And other actions, we spell out what we expect of our judges
[51:23.720 --> 51:26.720]  And then we create an oversight board
[51:26.720 --> 51:31.720]  So that any citizen who is a victim of injustice
[51:31.720 --> 51:36.720]  Or of a judge misbehaving can go to this board
[51:36.720 --> 51:38.720]  File a complaint
[51:38.720 --> 51:43.720]  And the board, which would not be a part of the judicial branch
[51:43.720 --> 51:46.720]  Would have the power to investigate
[51:46.720 --> 51:50.720]  Determine whether or not the judge misbehaved
[51:50.720 --> 51:53.720]  And if the judge did misbehave
[51:53.720 --> 51:56.720]  To assess a penalty against the judge
[51:56.720 --> 51:59.720]  Now if you were a judge
[51:59.720 --> 52:04.720]  And you knew that you could be held accountable for your actions
[52:04.720 --> 52:08.720]  And could either be fined or reprimanded
[52:08.720 --> 52:14.720]  Or even dismissed from your job because you misbehaved
[52:14.720 --> 52:20.720]  You undoubtedly would consider carefully what you do before you do it
[52:20.720 --> 52:21.720]  Don't you agree?
[52:21.720 --> 52:25.720]  Yes, I do, and I had a question in my mind
[52:25.720 --> 52:27.720]  And you answered it for me
[52:27.720 --> 52:34.720]  I was going to ask how this is different from the judicial conduct commissions we have now
[52:34.720 --> 52:41.720]  And bar associations and judicial conduct
[52:41.720 --> 52:46.720]  Portions of the government, they always seem to be staffed by attorneys and judges
[52:46.720 --> 52:49.720]  Exactly, you put your finger right on it
[52:49.720 --> 52:55.720]  And almost always they are a part of the judicial branch
[52:55.720 --> 52:59.720]  In other words, the judicial branch is policing itself
[52:59.720 --> 53:04.720]  And we all know that when you police yourself
[53:04.720 --> 53:09.720]  You don't do as good a job as an independent agency
[53:09.720 --> 53:16.720]  So our proposed accountability board is part of the legislative unit of government
[53:16.720 --> 53:20.720]  Which is consistent with our constitution and frankly
[53:20.720 --> 53:24.720]  Consistent with the constitution of all the states I know of
[53:24.720 --> 53:32.720]  So now the judges do not have the power to staff the accountability board
[53:32.720 --> 53:35.720]  They do not have the power to set the budget
[53:35.720 --> 53:40.720]  They do not have the power to control the actions of the accountability board
[53:40.720 --> 53:43.720]  That board would now be independent
[53:43.720 --> 53:47.720]  So now the judges can't
[53:47.720 --> 53:50.720]  And by the way, I do want to say there of course are good judges
[53:50.720 --> 53:52.720]  I'm not saying they're all bad
[53:52.720 --> 54:00.720]  But the judges themselves do not have the power to cover up or conceal bad behavior
[54:00.720 --> 54:04.720]  They now are subject to an independent oversight
[54:04.720 --> 54:07.720]  And that's the key to the resolution
[54:07.720 --> 54:14.720]  Good. Is this set up so it would be portable to other states?
[54:14.720 --> 54:20.720]  Yes, I invite all people to contact me
[54:20.720 --> 54:23.720]  And this is free, I don't get any money out of this at all
[54:23.720 --> 54:30.720]  And ask me for a copy of the judicial accountability law
[54:30.720 --> 54:36.720]  And I encourage people to contact their representatives and senators in their state
[54:36.720 --> 54:38.720]  And say, you know what?
[54:38.720 --> 54:46.720]  We can greatly improve our legal system if we have judicial accountability
[54:46.720 --> 54:49.720]  Here is a proposed law
[54:49.720 --> 54:54.720]  And we want you to consider this law perhaps as a start
[54:54.720 --> 55:01.720]  In other words, I don't represent that this is necessarily the perfect solution in all states
[55:01.720 --> 55:08.720]  But I do represent that it is the product of a vast amount of reading and study
[55:08.720 --> 55:15.720]  It's based on the works of a lot of very smart people who have written a lot of books and articles
[55:15.720 --> 55:22.720]  And so basically it's a well thought out proposed law, most of it's common sense
[55:22.720 --> 55:28.720]  And it would be a very good basis for starting a dialogue in states
[55:28.720 --> 55:33.720]  About what we can do to bring our courts under control
[55:33.720 --> 55:38.720]  And again I suggest that not every judge is bad, there are good judges
[55:38.720 --> 55:45.720]  And the only ones who would have to worry are those judges whose power has gone to their heads
[55:45.720 --> 55:51.720]  Who are victims of that well known axiom, power corrupts
[55:51.720 --> 55:56.720]  Who use what is called judicial immunity
[55:56.720 --> 55:59.720]  That's a doctrine that the judges created
[55:59.720 --> 56:04.720]  And basically what it says is that no matter what a judge does
[56:04.720 --> 56:10.720]  No matter how they hurt a person or a family, they're immune from consequences
[56:10.720 --> 56:14.720]  And this proposed law modifies that
[56:14.720 --> 56:21.720]  It says, wait a minute judge, when you clearly violate the standards that we expect of you
[56:21.720 --> 56:25.720]  When you ignore the constitution, when you ignore statutes
[56:25.720 --> 56:31.720]  When you ignore the rules, when you act grossly negligently
[56:31.720 --> 56:36.720]  When you are simply unjust and you know you're unjust
[56:36.720 --> 56:39.720]  Now you're going to face a consequence
[56:39.720 --> 56:48.720]  And I really do believe that if you're a judge and you know there's a consequence possible for misbehavior
[56:48.720 --> 56:50.720]  You're going to think about that
[56:50.720 --> 56:56.720]  Okay Dale, I want to ask you something, from what I've learned from Randy in my own studies
[56:56.720 --> 57:03.720]  If a judge acts outside of his jurisdiction, he loses his civil immunity anyway
[57:03.720 --> 57:10.720]  So I'm not quite understanding, maybe you could help explain maybe the finer points of this law
[57:10.720 --> 57:15.720]  Because from what I understand, if they act outside the law
[57:15.720 --> 57:21.720]  Then they lose their civil immunity by a matter of course
[57:21.720 --> 57:24.720]  Well you're correct, you're absolutely correct
[57:24.720 --> 57:30.720]  But you know what is missing is a process for holding the judge accountable
[57:30.720 --> 57:38.720]  In other words, right now, if a judge acts outside his or her jurisdiction
[57:38.720 --> 57:40.720]  Where do you go to get released?
[57:40.720 --> 57:43.720]  I go to the grand jury, we file criminal complaints
[57:43.720 --> 57:48.720]  That grand jury is a possibility in many, many states, including Minnesota
[57:48.720 --> 57:53.720]  It's very difficult to get a grand jury convened because the power is limited
[57:53.720 --> 58:01.720]  What we are proposing is a statutory mechanism, a procedure
[58:01.720 --> 58:06.720]  So that if in fact a judge misbehaves as you have just suggested
[58:06.720 --> 58:08.720]  You have a place to go
[58:08.720 --> 58:15.720]  You have a board where you can file a complaint and where the board does the work
[58:15.720 --> 58:23.720]  And they're clear of the judiciary or any of those influences and that's the key thing
[58:23.720 --> 58:30.720]  We're about to go to break, when we come back I have some specific questions and suggestions
[58:30.720 --> 58:32.720]  Sure, that would be great
[58:32.720 --> 58:34.720]  I'd like to put my two cents worth in
[58:34.720 --> 58:40.720]  Excellent, we're at the top of the hour, this is the rule of law Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[58:40.720 --> 58:44.720]  On ruleoflawradio.com, we'll be right back
[58:44.720 --> 59:06.720]  Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo is seeking federal funding to implement a program for training police to withdraw blood from DWI suspects
[59:06.720 --> 59:12.720]  Do you want our police to be able to stick a needle in your arm and take your blood on the side of the road
[59:12.720 --> 59:14.720]  With no search warrant or court order?
[59:14.720 --> 59:20.720]  This program is patently illegal, reckless, unconstitutional, and life threatening
[59:20.720 --> 59:26.720]  Join us March 30th at 6pm at Austin City Hall in the City Council Chambers
[59:26.720 --> 59:29.720]  For the public forum on police blood withdrawals
[59:29.720 --> 59:34.720]  Sponsored by Texans for Accountable Government and Austin Campaign for Liberty
[59:34.720 --> 59:37.720]  Speakers include Police Chief Art Acevedo
[59:37.720 --> 59:39.720]  City Council Member Mike Martinez
[59:39.720 --> 59:42.720]  Tags Steering Committee Rep John Bush
[59:42.720 --> 59:45.720]  ACLU Central Texas Chapter President Debbie Russell
[59:45.720 --> 59:48.720]  And MAD Rep Karen Housewright
[59:48.720 --> 59:52.720]  Be there March 30th at 6pm at Austin City Hall
[59:52.720 --> 59:56.720]  And make your voice be heard on this very serious issue
[59:59.720 --> 01:00:04.720]  You are listening to the rule of law radio network at ruleoflawradio.com
[01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:09.720]  Live free speech talk radio at its best
[01:00:34.720 --> 01:00:36.720]  Come get this people
[01:00:56.720 --> 01:01:01.720]  Alright we are back, the rule of law, ruleoflawradio.com
[01:01:01.720 --> 01:01:06.720]  I'm Deborah Stevens here with Randy Kelton of course
[01:01:06.720 --> 01:01:09.720]  And we are here with Attorney Dale Nathan
[01:01:09.720 --> 01:01:14.720]  And we are speaking about solutions
[01:01:14.720 --> 01:01:19.720]  Yes and when we were going off the air we touched on an issue
[01:01:19.720 --> 01:01:22.720]  Here in Texas we have a really strong grand jury
[01:01:22.720 --> 01:01:26.720]  And I'm constantly after getting to the grand jury
[01:01:26.720 --> 01:01:31.720]  And as Nathan was talking I'm thinking well you know we got a statute here
[01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:33.720]  That we can force complaints to grand jury
[01:01:33.720 --> 01:01:39.720]  But it occurred to me toward the end not every state has the same statutes
[01:01:39.720 --> 01:01:42.720]  And the same access that we do
[01:01:42.720 --> 01:01:47.720]  And Nathan will you kind of explain how the grand jury works in Minnesota
[01:01:47.720 --> 01:01:50.720]  And why it's not as effective as it could be
[01:01:50.720 --> 01:01:59.720]  In Minnesota only one person in a county can convene a grand jury
[01:01:59.720 --> 01:02:02.720]  And that person is the county attorney
[01:02:02.720 --> 01:02:05.720]  Many times the county attorney is part of the problem
[01:02:05.720 --> 01:02:10.720]  And many times they want to not offend a judge
[01:02:10.720 --> 01:02:15.720]  Because that is not in what they perceive their best interest
[01:02:15.720 --> 01:02:18.720]  So citizens in Minnesota
[01:02:18.720 --> 01:02:21.720]  And I might add most other states as far as I know
[01:02:21.720 --> 01:02:27.720]  Do not have the ability as you have in Texas to convene a grand jury
[01:02:27.720 --> 01:02:29.720]  But there's more
[01:02:29.720 --> 01:02:33.720]  The proposed law that we've put together
[01:02:33.720 --> 01:02:38.720]  Establishes performance standards and prohibitions for judges
[01:02:38.720 --> 01:02:43.720]  In other words we actually publish a criteria
[01:02:43.720 --> 01:02:46.720]  And we tell judges right up front
[01:02:46.720 --> 01:02:49.720]  This is what we expect you to do
[01:02:49.720 --> 01:02:56.720]  For example we demand that you follow the statutes as enacted by the legislature
[01:02:56.720 --> 01:02:59.720]  And if you do not do that, that's a violation
[01:02:59.720 --> 01:03:05.720]  We demand that you follow the constitutions of the United States and of our state
[01:03:05.720 --> 01:03:08.720]  Because that's your obligation
[01:03:08.720 --> 01:03:12.720]  We demand that you treat people with decorum
[01:03:12.720 --> 01:03:14.720]  That you treat them properly
[01:03:14.720 --> 01:03:17.720]  That you yell at them or belittle them
[01:03:17.720 --> 01:03:25.720]  We demand for example that you base your decision on the facts proven in the case
[01:03:25.720 --> 01:03:28.720]  Another example and I'll make this the last one
[01:03:28.720 --> 01:03:32.720]  We demand that you do not as has happened in Texas
[01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:35.720]  Take people into your chambers
[01:03:35.720 --> 01:03:38.720]  And demand that they agree to a plea bargain
[01:03:38.720 --> 01:03:40.720]  That they really don't want to agree to
[01:03:40.720 --> 01:03:44.720]  So in other words, we are fair in saying
[01:03:44.720 --> 01:03:49.720]  Okay judges, here's what you are obligated to do
[01:03:49.720 --> 01:03:53.720]  And secondly, here's what you're prohibited from doing
[01:03:53.720 --> 01:03:59.720]  So you know in advance what criteria constitutes the behavior we expect
[01:03:59.720 --> 01:04:01.720]  And what criteria does not
[01:04:01.720 --> 01:04:07.720]  Now third, I don't know, I cannot honestly say about your grand jury procedures
[01:04:07.720 --> 01:04:12.720]  But I can say that if you set up an accountability board
[01:04:12.720 --> 01:04:18.720]  You are probably going to accomplish judge oversight
[01:04:18.720 --> 01:04:23.720]  In a much more cost effective and in a much simpler process
[01:04:23.720 --> 01:04:28.720]  Than if you have to initiate a grand jury procedure
[01:04:28.720 --> 01:04:33.720]  Where you're probably going to need some help in presenting your case, those kinds of things
[01:04:33.720 --> 01:04:41.720]  So I would say I really respect and I applaud Texas for having a grand jury system
[01:04:41.720 --> 01:04:47.720]  But I suspect that that's more cumbersome, more expensive and more protracted
[01:04:47.720 --> 01:04:53.720]  Than if we had an organized procedure for judicial accountability
[01:04:53.720 --> 01:05:01.720]  But I also want to mention that our solutions encompass more than just judicial accountability
[01:05:01.720 --> 01:05:06.720]  And I think it would be well to finish up our debate on judicial accountability
[01:05:06.720 --> 01:05:13.720]  Because I'm anxious to mention something more that I think your listeners are interested in
[01:05:13.720 --> 01:05:18.720]  And that's what we call judicial performance evaluation
[01:05:18.720 --> 01:05:21.720]  Many times judges run for reelection
[01:05:21.720 --> 01:05:28.720]  And the voters know very little about how that particular judge has done his or her job
[01:05:28.720 --> 01:05:37.720]  So I'm going to pause at this point and say I've responded, I hope, to your questions about the grand jury
[01:05:37.720 --> 01:05:43.720]  And then I'm going to suggest that maybe there are some other reforms that you would find interesting
[01:05:43.720 --> 01:05:47.720]  Yes, yes, let's move along
[01:05:47.720 --> 01:05:50.720]  What else do you suggest that we could do?
[01:05:50.720 --> 01:06:01.720]  Well, in at least seven states, voters actually get a performance evaluation, I call it a report card
[01:06:01.720 --> 01:06:05.720]  On judges who are on the ballot for reelection
[01:06:05.720 --> 01:06:10.720]  And I don't know the situation in Texas, I'm just going to guess
[01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:14.720]  That many times you see names of judges that you know nothing about
[01:06:14.720 --> 01:06:18.720]  And many times they don't have any opponent, sometimes they do
[01:06:18.720 --> 01:06:25.720]  And the voters are left wondering, gee, I wonder if this judge has done a good or a bad job
[01:06:25.720 --> 01:06:28.720]  So we are proposing, we have a law, a proposed law
[01:06:28.720 --> 01:06:34.720]  That actually sets up a judge evaluation system
[01:06:34.720 --> 01:06:42.720]  Where panels of citizens are provided information about what judges have done, how they've performed their job
[01:06:42.720 --> 01:06:51.720]  And where they prepare, again, performance evaluations or report cards that are made known to voters prior to elections
[01:06:51.720 --> 01:06:59.720]  Now just imagine, if you were a judge and you knew that how you were doing your job
[01:06:59.720 --> 01:07:05.720]  Was going to be fairly evaluated and critiqued and made known to the people
[01:07:05.720 --> 01:07:11.720]  Would that be an incentive for you to want to do a good job and get a good report?
[01:07:11.720 --> 01:07:12.720]  What do you think?
[01:07:12.720 --> 01:07:21.720]  I think that would be great because Ken Magnuson, I work with him toward new legislation here in Texas
[01:07:21.720 --> 01:07:28.720]  And one of his key complaints and his key concerns is with the Judicial Conduct Commission
[01:07:28.720 --> 01:07:32.720]  If you file a complaint with them, it becomes secret
[01:07:32.720 --> 01:07:33.720]  Exactly
[01:07:33.720 --> 01:07:35.720]  Same thing with bar grievances
[01:07:35.720 --> 01:07:43.720]  And what we've proposed here is, we're supposed to already have it set up, was a website where
[01:07:43.720 --> 01:07:48.720]  If you have a, you can go onto the website and fill out a questionnaire
[01:07:48.720 --> 01:07:53.720]  And it will print you out a bar grievance or a judicial conduct complaint
[01:07:53.720 --> 01:08:01.720]  And then when you get it, you can just send it in, but when you send it in, it becomes private, secret, you can't reveal it
[01:08:01.720 --> 01:08:10.720]  But I keep a copy on my website and that requirement for secrecy doesn't extend to me
[01:08:10.720 --> 01:08:19.720]  And I will post that on a page that the leading sentence on the page will contain the judge's name
[01:08:19.720 --> 01:08:28.720]  So if anybody does a search for that name, he'll get a hit right on that judicial conduct complaint or bar grievance
[01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:34.720]  It will help them out with this secret problem, but legislation would be much better
[01:08:34.720 --> 01:08:41.720]  And I applaud what you're doing, you're really helping voters get some information about judges
[01:08:41.720 --> 01:08:44.720]  And what we're doing is expanding on that
[01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:52.720]  We're actually creating a small staff that conducts interviews of parties, interviews of let's say law enforcement officials
[01:08:52.720 --> 01:09:00.720]  Interviews of attorneys and organizes a survey of a particular judge
[01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:10.720]  Now, hopefully, the report will come back that this particular judge is a good judge, he's very conscientious, follows the laws
[01:09:10.720 --> 01:09:21.720]  Doesn't have any complaints and is respected by law enforcement and by parties who have appeared and attorneys who have appeared before him or her
[01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:27.720]  And consequently, voters say, okay, this judge has a good report
[01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:36.720]  Now, in the seven states that do have performance evaluation of judges, there are times when a report comes to voters
[01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:49.720]  And the report frankly says, this judge is tardy a great deal of the time, is rude to parties, doesn't always apply the law as he should
[01:09:49.720 --> 01:09:58.720]  Well, that's valuable information and frankly, very few judges want to report like that because they like being a judge, they want to continue
[01:09:58.720 --> 01:10:06.720]  So performance evaluation of judges is an idea that we think its time has come
[01:10:06.720 --> 01:10:14.720]  And we put together a proposed law, a bill that we would gladly share with anyone who wants it
[01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:24.720]  And again, there's no charge so that they can go to their legislators and say, this is a good idea, we would like for you to consider this
[01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:31.720]  Okay, Dale, I want to ask you something about these performance evaluations and such
[01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:46.720]  My main question is, where's the enforcement? Is there going to be an enforcement agency or is this law fall under the civil side of law or the criminal side of law?
[01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:56.720]  And if it falls under the criminal side of law, then we still are getting back to the same situation of, well, if they break the law, somebody's going to have to file criminal charges against them
[01:10:56.720 --> 01:11:02.720]  With some entity, obviously a magistrate is the most obvious choice, a grand jury and such
[01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:21.720]  And if this is just all bureaucratic bureaucracy, sort of an administrative process, does it just end up to be a situation of, well, it's just something that goes on their record that voters would look at
[01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:26.720]  So eventually is the enforcement just whether the voters would vote them out of office or not?
[01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:36.720]  I mean, my main question is, how is this actually going to be enforced and come to pass? I mean, if everybody just says, okay, this guy's a bad judge, well, who's going to actually yank them off the bench?
[01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:40.720]  Well, that's a good question and the answer is the voters
[01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:43.720]  We're really talking about two different subjects
[01:11:43.720 --> 01:11:48.720]  The one subject that we're talking about, one of the two, is judicial accountability
[01:11:48.720 --> 01:12:02.720]  And that's a separate matter. I quite agree with you that if a judge has misbehaved, that goes to the judicial accountability unit or remedy that whatever we have
[01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:09.720]  But on the other hand, there are judges who do not necessarily commit a criminal act
[01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:14.720]  Let's say that they're always rude to parties, well, that's not a criminal act
[01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:22.720]  Let's say that they're habitually late when they perform their jobs, well, that's not a criminal act
[01:12:22.720 --> 01:12:35.720]  Let's say that they make bad decisions, not necessarily a crime, but just they don't look at the facts, they don't consider all the evidence
[01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:39.720]  Matters like that would be the subject of an evaluation
[01:12:39.720 --> 01:12:44.720]  Now imagine that you're a judge and you've got lots of power and you like your job
[01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:48.720]  And now you're going to have to be voted on by the voters
[01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:59.720]  And you know that there's a report that's going to be sent to the voters as to whether or not you should be kept on as a judge or you should not be kept on
[01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:09.720]  You really want the voters to get a report from a state agency that says you're not doing a good job and you ought to be fired, basically
[01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:12.720]  Well, if you're like most judges, you don't want that
[01:13:12.720 --> 01:13:16.720]  And so you're going to do things to prevent that
[01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:26.720]  And that consists of hopefully, no, I'm going to treat people respectfully, I'm going to look at the evidence, I'm going to follow the law
[01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:37.720]  You're going to do what it takes to keep your job because, believe me, the most important thing of all to a judge is to stay being a judge
[01:13:37.720 --> 01:13:41.720]  So again, we're talking about two different categories
[01:13:41.720 --> 01:13:55.720]  And you can decide for yourself if the so-called penalty of getting a bad report is something that would or would not motivate a judge with respect to their behavior
[01:13:55.720 --> 01:13:57.720]  Does that make sense to you?
[01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:07.720]  Yes, and one of the things that it's taken me a while to adjust to is you're taking a different approach than we do
[01:14:07.720 --> 01:14:19.720]  And I think in the end, yours will be a very effective approach generally to keep judges fair and honest
[01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:23.720]  And what ours is is more acute
[01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:27.720]  We want to go beat them up right on the front end
[01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:42.720]  But if we could get the law in what you're talking about impaneled, I can see where it would apply a consistent pressure on the judges to be careful in what they do
[01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:54.720]  The one question I have is the commission, how do we keep the commission free from outside influence?
[01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:57.720]  That's relatively easy to do
[01:14:57.720 --> 01:15:05.720]  To begin with, and you call it commission, I'm going to call it evaluation panels
[01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:09.720]  I'm a great believer in citizen evaluation
[01:15:09.720 --> 01:15:12.720]  Let me give you an example
[01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:25.720]  I would never put a lawyer on the evaluation commission or panel because a lawyer has very good reason to not offend judges
[01:15:25.720 --> 01:15:28.720]  Lawyers appear before judges
[01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:39.720]  Therefore, lawyers have a very good reason to make sure that whatever they say about a judge will not tick the judge off, after all
[01:15:39.720 --> 01:15:42.720]  That judge controls your career
[01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:52.720]  Therefore, if we have evaluators of how judges do their work, we want an unbiased evaluator
[01:15:52.720 --> 01:16:02.720]  Well, now if we start there, now we say, okay citizens, if you're going to be evaluators, how are you going to evaluate?
[01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:09.720]  After all, citizens who are not lawyers don't necessarily know the legal system
[01:16:09.720 --> 01:16:12.720]  So now we have a professional staff
[01:16:12.720 --> 01:16:26.720]  It's a small staff and basically what they do is they conduct interviews of law enforcement officials, a representative number of parties who have appeared before a particular judge
[01:16:26.720 --> 01:16:32.720]  A representative number of lawyers who have appeared before particular judges
[01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:36.720]  We take their information and we do keep it confidential
[01:16:36.720 --> 01:16:38.720]  We don't want to embarrass anybody
[01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:43.720]  Okay, Dale, Dale, Dale, wait, hold on, we're going to break, we're about to go to break, we only got 15 seconds
[01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:49.720]  I want to take some calls and we get on the other side and yeah, the voter thing is very important
[01:16:49.720 --> 01:16:52.720]  We've got to solve the problem with the voting machines first, I think
[01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:53.720]  Oh, you're right about that
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[01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:48.720]  Alright, this is the Rule of Law on Rule of Law Radio, ruleoflawradio.com
[01:18:48.720 --> 01:18:50.720]  Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:53.720]  We're here with attorney Dale Nathan
[01:18:53.720 --> 01:19:00.720]  And of course I just want to make the announcement to everybody tune in tomorrow night
[01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:13.720]  Because attorney Brian Michaels is going to be discussing the situation of the feds pepper spraying the children at the rainbow gathering last year
[01:19:13.720 --> 01:19:15.720]  And what we're going to do about it
[01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:22.720]  And what we're going to do to prepare if similar situation happens again this coming summer
[01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:29.720]  And at any rate we are now going to go to some of our callers who have been patiently holding for a very long time
[01:19:29.720 --> 01:19:32.720]  Appreciate it, we're going to go to Eddie in Texas
[01:19:32.720 --> 01:19:35.720]  Eddie thanks for calling in, what's on your mind tonight?
[01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:43.720]  Thanks Deborah, if you recall Randy told me to call back in tonight for my problem with the comptroller's office
[01:19:43.720 --> 01:19:49.720]  I did, frankly I didn't know we were going to have two guests
[01:19:49.720 --> 01:19:55.720]  Well maybe Dale can help Eddie with this situation, go ahead Eddie
[01:19:55.720 --> 01:20:02.720]  Okay well what the situation is is that I have a business and it's private unincorporated sole proprietorship
[01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:09.720]  I do not charge or collect sales tax because after studying Chapter 151 of the Texas Tax Code
[01:20:09.720 --> 01:20:18.720]  I've come to the conclusion that it only has specific types of people located on federal property as the way it's written
[01:20:18.720 --> 01:20:24.720]  But what they've done is they have come in without a warrant, without a court order, they have seized my business
[01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:31.720]  I got the notice of sale yesterday that they are going to sell my business on the 14th
[01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:34.720]  I've never even so much as had an administrative hearing
[01:20:34.720 --> 01:20:40.720]  They refuse to answer my questions, they refuse to respond in any manner to any questions I have
[01:20:40.720 --> 01:20:43.720]  Regarding the validity of my claims about the statute
[01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:50.720]  And so they are simply trying to bully me paying them money and collecting their taxes for them at my own expense
[01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:55.720]  Have you filed, you need to petition for an emergency restraining order
[01:20:55.720 --> 01:21:02.720]  Well I've written up a thing for an injunction Randy which I've emailed to you at the rule of law radio address
[01:21:02.720 --> 01:21:09.720]  I just sent you the last updated copy of it here before the show began so that you would have that
[01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:16.720]  I'm not exactly positive, I fashioned it after an attorney general injunction against Starlight Industries
[01:21:16.720 --> 01:21:19.720]  That was overcharging for the hotel rooms during the hurricane
[01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:25.720]  I modeled it on that but I'm not still 100% positive I've got it right
[01:21:25.720 --> 01:21:30.720]  Because it's got to be filed from my understanding with our district court
[01:21:30.720 --> 01:21:37.720]  And since I am, also I don't know if I should be filing this civilly or criminally at the injunction
[01:21:37.720 --> 01:21:42.720]  What they've done is commit crimes, that's evident in their very actions
[01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:48.720]  And they have violated subchapter K of chapter 151 which deals with their procedure
[01:21:48.720 --> 01:21:54.720]  Their procedure is very specific that the comptroller must file suit in a court of this state
[01:21:54.720 --> 01:22:00.720]  In order to do anything regarding the sales tax, to recover taxes or anything else
[01:22:00.720 --> 01:22:05.720]  Have you filed, have you filed criminally against these guys?
[01:22:05.720 --> 01:22:09.720]  I've sent you copies of a couple of the criminal complaints for your review also
[01:22:09.720 --> 01:22:14.720]  To see if I've got that set up correctly, the only thing I'm not sure of is about the signature blocks
[01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:20.720]  Because if we take it to the DA, it's got to be signed in front of her and stamped by her
[01:22:20.720 --> 01:22:24.720]  If we do it without the DA, can I just have it notarized?
[01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:29.720]  The way I do it is I make up two sets
[01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:33.720]  Actually it doesn't matter if you give it to the DA
[01:22:33.720 --> 01:22:38.720]  If you notarize it, it doesn't have to be signed in front of the DA
[01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:42.720]  The DA is simply authorized to verify documents
[01:22:42.720 --> 01:22:46.720]  Yeah, it says by any officer that can administer oaths, right?
[01:22:46.720 --> 01:22:50.720]  Yeah, right, so if you already have it notarized
[01:22:50.720 --> 01:22:55.720]  It's probably better unless you want to have that fight
[01:22:55.720 --> 01:22:59.720]  The last one I went to was in McLennan County
[01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:03.720]  And I asked the prosecutor to verify my signature and he said he couldn't do that
[01:23:03.720 --> 01:23:07.720]  And I said, well of course you can, read article 2.06
[01:23:07.720 --> 01:23:12.720]  And he read it and he said, well that's what it says, but I've never done that
[01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:18.720]  He said he's done it in court when the judge directed him to
[01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:21.720]  But he's never done it outside of court
[01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:26.720]  And I said, well that's fair enough, I'll bring it back to you notarized
[01:23:26.720 --> 01:23:29.720]  So we just don't have to deal with this particular argument
[01:23:29.720 --> 01:23:33.720]  So if you don't want to have that argument, then you just bring him a verified affidavit
[01:23:33.720 --> 01:23:36.720]  I generally bring one that's not verified
[01:23:36.720 --> 01:23:41.720]  Because when you go to the prosecutor, he's not going to talk to you
[01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:44.720]  He's going to send out this investigator
[01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:49.720]  And for the investigator I bring out the one that's not verified
[01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:52.720]  And I say, are you an investigator?
[01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:56.720]  First I ask if he's a prosecutor and he says no
[01:23:56.720 --> 01:23:59.720]  I said, well are you an investigator?
[01:23:59.720 --> 01:24:01.720]  And he said, yes I am
[01:24:01.720 --> 01:24:03.720]  You're a certified police officer in the state of Texas
[01:24:03.720 --> 01:24:04.720]  And he says, yes I am
[01:24:04.720 --> 01:24:07.720]  Here, verify this
[01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:11.720]  And I stick the criminal complaint in his face
[01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:14.720]  Deb will remember when I did that in Williamson County
[01:24:14.720 --> 01:24:21.720]  He looked at that, well I better take this to the prosecuting attorney, good idea bubba
[01:24:21.720 --> 01:24:24.720]  Yeah, well if you'll remember, last week when I called in
[01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:32.720]  I told you that our paper ran an article on what the comptroller's office did to my business here, front page style
[01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:39.720]  And in that article our DA specifically said that she is the only one that can make presentations to the grand jury
[01:24:39.720 --> 01:24:43.720]  And she's the only one that decides who that will be about
[01:24:43.720 --> 01:24:47.720]  And that I was dead wrong that I could take the case for the grand jury without her
[01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:54.720]  Okay, what this does is in this case you'll agree she can take one before grand jury
[01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:57.720]  And here's the complaint, take it
[01:24:57.720 --> 01:25:02.720]  Because article 2.03 code of criminal procedure takes away
[01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:04.720]  Correct, says she has to
[01:25:04.720 --> 01:25:05.720]  Pardon me?
[01:25:05.720 --> 01:25:12.720]  Yeah, I agree, 2.03 says she has to and 2.04 also explains her duty on a felony, does it not?
[01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:20.720]  No, 2.04 and 2.05 go to criminal complaints against everybody else
[01:25:20.720 --> 01:25:21.720]  Okay
[01:25:21.720 --> 01:25:34.720]  2.03 addresses public officials and it shouldn't be lost on people that the legislature addressed complaints against public officials first
[01:25:34.720 --> 01:25:38.720]  Before they addressed complaints against citizens
[01:25:38.720 --> 01:25:46.720]  It's essentially the same procedure except that in the matter of a complaint against a public official
[01:25:46.720 --> 01:25:56.720]  Makes no difference what level it is, they all go to the grand jury and the prosecuting attorney has zero discretion
[01:25:56.720 --> 01:26:04.720]  So she wants to be the one, I would give her the first crack at it and then when she doesn't, we'll test what she said
[01:26:04.720 --> 01:26:11.720]  When she doesn't give it to the grand jury, you go down and ask the clerk for the minutes of the grand jury
[01:26:11.720 --> 01:26:20.720]  And if you don't see those a true bill, no bill or pass on your complaints, then you go back to the grand jury
[01:26:20.720 --> 01:26:30.720]  You go back when the grand jury's meeting, you approach the grand jury's bailiff and tell him instruct the foreman I have business with the grand jury
[01:26:30.720 --> 01:26:37.720]  The only problem with this so far though is that our grand jury meets only every two weeks
[01:26:37.720 --> 01:26:42.720]  And by the time that I let her skip one, my business will be gone
[01:26:42.720 --> 01:27:00.720]  So file the motion for restraining order and include in as attachments the criminal complaints against the officials and a restraining order the judge will sign almost out of hand
[01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:10.720]  Because all it does is stall it long enough for the court to convene a show cause hearing
[01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:16.720]  And what you do is disqualify all of these officials with criminal charges against them
[01:27:16.720 --> 01:27:23.720]  And ask that the show cause hearing be delayed until the criminal allegations can be adjudicated
[01:27:23.720 --> 01:27:36.720]  Because if they're indicted, then they're not credible witnesses, credible officials for the purpose of testifying before the court
[01:27:36.720 --> 01:27:44.720]  Absolutely, and that's the brilliant thing about filing the criminal charges too because it completely stops the whole thing dead in the water
[01:27:44.720 --> 01:27:49.720]  They're automatically disqualified, even if they don't get indicted, it still buys you time
[01:27:49.720 --> 01:28:03.720]  Okay, well I've still got to force her to accept the complaints because again in the article she says the only place that I can file is with a law enforcement agency which we know is not true
[01:28:03.720 --> 01:28:09.720]  So I will take them directly to her and give her the option of not doing it and then slap her with 3805 if she refuses
[01:28:09.720 --> 01:28:17.720]  Yeah, if she refuses, I would go get security and say I need you to come with me
[01:28:17.720 --> 01:28:29.720]  I'm going to go to the prosecuting attorney and she's going to refuse to perform a duty she's required to perform for the purpose of shielding some folks from prosecution in accordance with these statutes
[01:28:29.720 --> 01:28:37.720]  And I'm going to want you to be there because I don't want them to call you and tell you that I created this big problem when I didn't
[01:28:37.720 --> 01:28:44.720]  I need you as a witness and when the prosecutor fails to perform his duty, I'm going to expect you to arrest the prosecutor
[01:28:44.720 --> 01:28:51.720]  Yeah, well see I've gotten to the point where I carry a digital recorder constantly whenever I'm in contact with these people or expect to be
[01:28:51.720 --> 01:28:52.720]  Good
[01:28:52.720 --> 01:28:53.720]  And it is always on
[01:28:53.720 --> 01:29:04.720]  Wonderful, then what you do now is now you get the head of security tied up in this and if he doesn't do his job you go after him
[01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:08.720]  Now he's going to go back to the prosecutor and say what in the heck did you get me into?
[01:29:08.720 --> 01:29:09.720]  Yeah
[01:29:09.720 --> 01:29:17.720]  You create more pressure on the prosecutor but primarily you want that officer, he's going to be a witness
[01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:27.720]  He's not going to be a witness for that prosecutor, the security is not because now you're going after him
[01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:33.720]  And he's going to say well I didn't know I could do that, I didn't like I could blah blah blah
[01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:38.720]  But he's not going to help the prosecutor, he's just going to muddy the water for everybody
[01:29:38.720 --> 01:29:39.720]  Okay
[01:29:39.720 --> 01:29:40.720]  And keep you from getting arrested
[01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:45.720]  I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't mind taking a look at that document I sent you in the email
[01:29:45.720 --> 01:29:50.720]  I certainly will and call if you have my, I will email you
[01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:58.720]  Alright listen we're going to break, we'll be right back, this is the rule of law on ruleoflawradio.com
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[01:30:57.720 --> 01:31:06.720]  Hello listeners, have you ever wondered if UFOs are real? Is there really a flying saucer cover up by governments around the world? How about those footprints they found on planet Mars?
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[01:32:18.720 --> 01:32:34.720]  Alright, we are back
[01:32:34.720 --> 01:32:37.720]  The Rule of Law, Randy Kelton and Deborah Stevens
[01:32:37.720 --> 01:32:47.720]  We're here with Dale Nathan, we're speaking with Eddie from Texas right now and Randy, you wanted to talk to Eddie and just finish up with him and then we're going to go to Travis in Minnesota
[01:32:47.720 --> 01:32:52.720]  Yeah, Eddie, I will go over those documents and I will send you my commentary tomorrow
[01:32:52.720 --> 01:32:56.720]  Do you have copies of my complaint forms?
[01:32:56.720 --> 01:33:05.720]  I've gone out to your website on those dealing with Ron Fox and I've downloaded virtually everything on that I can find. If you've got a specific reference to one, I will look it up
[01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:16.720]  No, I've just got a folder with blanks in it and it has just blank ones and those are constructed to meet the requirements of 1505
[01:33:16.720 --> 01:33:17.720]  Okay
[01:33:17.720 --> 01:33:21.720]  But you're probably real close, I hadn't looked at your complaint yet, but the complaint's fairly simple
[01:33:21.720 --> 01:33:30.720]  Yeah, I looked at exactly what it says that it must have in, you know, by the name, authority of Texas and all that to try to make sure my complaint matches what the code says
[01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:31.720]  Good
[01:33:31.720 --> 01:33:37.720]  Now, there is something interesting here I wanted to tell you about this notice of tax sale letter that was sent to me
[01:33:37.720 --> 01:33:47.720]  It's written in the form of an affidavit and it specifically says by virtue of the authority vested in me as Comptroller of Public Accounts and named Susan Combs directly
[01:33:47.720 --> 01:33:54.720]  But down at the bottom where it says, given a high hand and seal of office the 16th day, she's not the one that signed it
[01:33:54.720 --> 01:33:57.720]  It was signed by a field office manager
[01:33:57.720 --> 01:33:58.720]  She can delegate
[01:33:58.720 --> 01:34:01.720]  There is no state seal on it
[01:34:01.720 --> 01:34:03.720]  Interesting
[01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:08.720]  If I read the law correctly, that constitutes forgery
[01:34:08.720 --> 01:34:12.720]  Well, she may be able to delegate that signature
[01:34:12.720 --> 01:34:18.720]  I have looked all day for the statute that would give her the authority to delegate this, I cannot find it
[01:34:18.720 --> 01:34:20.720]  Oh, wonderful
[01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:25.720]  These are the kinds of issues that I really like to bring, the really technical issues
[01:34:25.720 --> 01:34:28.720]  And it only takes one to stop the whole thing
[01:34:28.720 --> 01:34:33.720]  Yeah, well, see, like I say, it says that this document contains the seal, and it does not
[01:34:33.720 --> 01:34:34.720]  It's not sealed at all
[01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:41.720]  And how can he sign in lieu of her as being the one, you know, that's doing the process?
[01:34:41.720 --> 01:34:44.720]  Good, that's a felony, falsified a government document
[01:34:44.720 --> 01:34:45.720]  Exactly
[01:34:45.720 --> 01:34:52.720]  Not to mention, like I said before, the business they have on all the paperwork is called ITT Freelancers
[01:34:52.720 --> 01:34:54.720]  That's not the name of my business
[01:34:54.720 --> 01:34:58.720]  They've come and seized my business under the wrong name
[01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:11.720]  Okay, that goes to, you might, have you heard of Sam Davis and, oh, what's it called, certification
[01:35:11.720 --> 01:35:18.720]  It's rule 17 of the federal code, but it goes to abatement and standing
[01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:25.720]  They have to show that the person who's taking the action is a real party in interest
[01:35:25.720 --> 01:35:31.720]  This is not a suit, this is just an extra, this looks like an extrajudicial action
[01:35:31.720 --> 01:35:40.720]  Sort of confessed judgment where they're acting without any judicial process
[01:35:40.720 --> 01:35:43.720]  And you're saying there has to be a judicial process
[01:35:43.720 --> 01:35:44.720]  Right, exactly
[01:35:44.720 --> 01:35:46.720]  So this all goes to fraud
[01:35:46.720 --> 01:35:49.720]  Exactly, now here's another problem with what they've got
[01:35:49.720 --> 01:35:55.720]  They're telling me that, one, reading the law, I don't believe I have to collect the sales tax and I do not
[01:35:55.720 --> 01:36:02.720]  But number two is that all the tax statements that they've mailed to me have that ITT Freelancers name on it
[01:36:02.720 --> 01:36:06.720]  I can't be expected to file a form for a business I don't have anything to do with
[01:36:06.720 --> 01:36:08.720]  That would be fraud
[01:36:08.720 --> 01:36:09.720]  Exactly
[01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:14.720]  Do you know who is ITT Freelancers?
[01:36:14.720 --> 01:36:19.720]  No, as far as I can tell, a Google search pulls up, no such business
[01:36:19.720 --> 01:36:22.720]  Okay, that's interesting
[01:36:22.720 --> 01:36:25.720]  Okay, can you call back in tomorrow night?
[01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:26.720]  Sure
[01:36:26.720 --> 01:36:30.720]  Good, I'd like to go over this morning, give me time to go over your documents
[01:36:30.720 --> 01:36:36.720]  Okay, I would appreciate that, and I'll give you guys time for everybody else that's waiting, I know they're out there
[01:36:36.720 --> 01:36:37.720]  Okay, thank you
[01:36:37.720 --> 01:36:39.720]  Alright, thanks Randy
[01:36:39.720 --> 01:36:40.720]  Okay
[01:36:39.720 --> 01:36:40.720]  Thanks Deborah
[01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:42.720]  Alright, thank you Travis
[01:36:42.720 --> 01:36:47.720]  I mean, I'm sorry, thank you Eddie, we're going to Travis now in Minnesota
[01:36:47.720 --> 01:36:48.720]  Hear me
[01:36:48.720 --> 01:36:54.720]  Alright Travis, thanks for calling in, what is your question for our guest Dale tonight?
[01:36:54.720 --> 01:36:55.720]  Can you hear me?
[01:36:55.720 --> 01:36:56.720]  Yes, can you hear us?
[01:36:56.720 --> 01:37:06.720]  Yes, yes, and I have a new self-acknowledged title which is Freeman, F-R-E-E-M-A-N
[01:37:06.720 --> 01:37:17.720]  And in keeping with my personality and the current events of today in which I was released from the men's correctional facility at 5 a.m. this morning
[01:37:17.720 --> 01:37:35.720]  Last week, starting with my birthday, trying to stay out of jail and then ambushed by a combination or a collusion of a concerted effort of a judge, a number of court clerks
[01:37:35.720 --> 01:37:45.720]  And a number of deputies ambushed, I had an arraignment scheduled for an alleged probation violation
[01:37:45.720 --> 01:37:55.720]  And the arraignment upon my arrival turned into a pretrial trial and subsequent sentencing in which I was found guilty of
[01:37:55.720 --> 01:38:11.720]  And I want everybody to listen very carefully, the condition was that I was to complete a class by September 30, 2009
[01:38:11.720 --> 01:38:25.720]  The judge read that right off the original sentencing paper which was the sentence of another judge, the condition of another judge who was, this judge is senior, this judge was brand new to the bench
[01:38:25.720 --> 01:38:46.720]  And this judge said theirself, and it should be on the court record, I believe I have a transcript on the way, that the condition was that I complete this class by September 30, 2009
[01:38:46.720 --> 01:38:58.720]  Now, that was the first time I was even informed as to the nature of the charge, and of course I didn't have a very good opportunity to prepare
[01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:06.720]  They're taking this action because you didn't finish the class by September 30, 2009?
[01:39:06.720 --> 01:39:08.720]  Correct, correct Randy
[01:39:08.720 --> 01:39:10.720]  I think they may have a problem
[01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:20.720]  I think they will too, and see I have a lawyer who's representing me, but he has that old self-interest, scared to piss the judge off thing
[01:39:20.720 --> 01:39:32.720]  And we went before the original sentencing judge today who agreed that the newbie judge didn't really have any authority or right to
[01:39:32.720 --> 01:39:42.720]  find me guilty of failing to meet that criteria, being that that's over six months away yet
[01:39:42.720 --> 01:39:52.720]  I did state that on the record this past last week on the date that was supposed to be an arraignment that turned into a pre-trial trial
[01:39:52.720 --> 01:39:55.720]  Did you have a question?
[01:39:55.720 --> 01:40:05.720]  Well, basically everybody's trying to tell me not to pursue the matter, and just to get it over with and forget about it
[01:40:05.720 --> 01:40:15.720]  I'm really getting tired of people telling me that I'm going to spend the rest of my life in jail if I try to fight out against this type of injustice
[01:40:15.720 --> 01:40:26.720]  This is a very serious situation, I was barred from the courthouse as a pro se respondent in a criminal proceeding, I was barred from the open court
[01:40:26.720 --> 01:40:32.720]  Okay, wait, wait, wait, you're running way too fast with too many different things, we're getting lost in here
[01:40:32.720 --> 01:40:34.720]  Okay, I'm sorry, yeah, if you recall
[01:40:34.720 --> 01:40:36.720]  Nathan
[01:40:36.720 --> 01:40:37.720]  Pardon me?
[01:40:37.720 --> 01:40:42.720]  We have Dale Nathan on, and he's an attorney from Minnesota
[01:40:42.720 --> 01:40:44.720]  Absolutely
[01:40:44.720 --> 01:40:49.720]  What do you think about that, Dale?
[01:40:49.720 --> 01:40:50.720]  Did we lose Dale?
[01:40:50.720 --> 01:41:00.720]  No, Dale was having some technical problems, I had to get our assistant producer to try to solve the situation, I think we have him back
[01:41:00.720 --> 01:41:01.720]  Come on
[01:41:01.720 --> 01:41:02.720]  Okay, there he is
[01:41:02.720 --> 01:41:07.720]  And, you know, Travis, what you described, can you hear me?
[01:41:07.720 --> 01:41:20.720]  Dale, listen, you've got a serious echo on your line, can you please call back in?
[01:41:20.720 --> 01:41:21.720]  Okay
[01:41:21.720 --> 01:41:22.720]  Okay, we're going to have to get Dale to call back in
[01:41:22.720 --> 01:41:34.720]  Yeah, okay, okay, now, let's go back to this hearing, did you receive a notice to appear for an arraignment?
[01:41:34.720 --> 01:41:44.720]  Well, I went to the original arraignment where I asked for some time to look into finding representation
[01:41:44.720 --> 01:41:53.720]  And I asked for the particulars of the charge, and I was not given the particulars of the charge, I was given an extension
[01:41:53.720 --> 01:42:02.720]  And they reset the arraignment date, I think about a week out, I'm not sure, it doesn't really matter, but it was at least a week out
[01:42:02.720 --> 01:42:14.720]  Basically, between then and the reset date for the arraignment, I was attempting to access the file pertaining to the case
[01:42:14.720 --> 01:42:26.720]  So I could understand the charge and understand the evidence, and that was when, if you recall, Randy, a deputy had, as you say, a pistol prominently displayed on her hip
[01:42:26.720 --> 01:42:28.720]  Threw you out of the courthouse?
[01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:35.720]  I needed to leave immediately or I'd be arrested, and then I couldn't come back until the date of my court date
[01:42:35.720 --> 01:42:43.720]  Now today, the prosecutor was actually there, I don't remember the prosecutor being there last week when the judge was actually the prosecutor
[01:42:43.720 --> 01:42:51.720]  The judge did 90% of the talking, I maybe did 9% of the talking, and the probation officer maybe did 1% of the talking
[01:42:51.720 --> 01:42:59.720]  The prosecutor, if he was even there, didn't make his presence known, he didn't say a word at any rate
[01:42:59.720 --> 01:43:09.720]  I don't know, it's kind of a long story, and it started off back on your show about a week or two weeks ago
[01:43:09.720 --> 01:43:18.720]  Yeah, yeah, part of the difficulty you have, this is common, so many things have happened to you
[01:43:18.720 --> 01:43:24.720]  And you know all the details, and you tell us the things that seem most important to you
[01:43:24.720 --> 01:43:30.720]  But we don't have the connections, so we can't put all the pieces together, it kind of leaves us scratching our heads
[01:43:30.720 --> 01:43:41.720]  We're about to go to break, and we're coming up on our last segment, when we come back we want to bring Nathan in and get his, kind of, get his take on what's going on
[01:43:41.720 --> 01:43:48.720]  Alright, we'll be right back, this is the rule of law, Rainie Kelton and Deborah Stevens
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[01:45:34.720 --> 01:45:57.720]  Alright, we are back
[01:45:57.720 --> 01:46:03.720]  The rule of law, Rainie Kelton and Deborah Stevens here on Rule of Law Radio
[01:46:03.720 --> 01:46:06.720]  Ruleoflawradio.com
[01:46:06.720 --> 01:46:15.720]  And just another reminder, tomorrow night at 8 p.m. Central Time, we are going to have Attorney Brian Michaels on, we've had him on before
[01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:22.720]  To discuss the situation about what happened at the Rainbow Gathering last year and what he's been doing about it, what we're going to do about it
[01:46:22.720 --> 01:46:30.720]  And what we're going to prepare to do this year in case something else happens, hopefully it won't
[01:46:30.720 --> 01:46:35.720]  Okay, we're back with Dale Nathan, attorney from Minnesota
[01:46:35.720 --> 01:46:41.720]  And Dale, you wanted to comment on Travis' situation and also just kind of summarize what you do and give out your website and such
[01:46:41.720 --> 01:46:52.720]  Yes, with respect to Travis, I would recommend consideration of what is called a writ of mandamus and or a writ of prohibition
[01:46:52.720 --> 01:47:02.720]  Those are viable solutions, they often get pretty quick results, so I hope Travis will contact me and I will now give my telephone number
[01:47:02.720 --> 01:47:11.720]  And if Travis will contact me, I certainly will do everything I can to help him, including work with his attorney, I think he said he has one
[01:47:11.720 --> 01:47:26.720]  And pursue a writ of mandamus, a writ of prohibition, my telephone number is 651-454-0506
[01:47:26.720 --> 01:47:44.720]  And my email address is dalenathan, altogether, at usfamily.net
[01:47:44.720 --> 01:47:51.720]  Repeating quickly, dalenathan, altogether, at usfamily.net
[01:47:51.720 --> 01:48:03.720]  And also there is a website that I highly recommend, and this is called altogether now, thetruthaboutminnesota.org
[01:48:03.720 --> 01:48:09.720]  So those words are altogether, thetruthaboutminnesota.org
[01:48:09.720 --> 01:48:17.720]  And on that website you will find our proposed solutions, there are nine of them, and we hope there's interest in them
[01:48:17.720 --> 01:48:24.720]  We hope that many people will say, let me take a look at it and see if these are viable solutions
[01:48:24.720 --> 01:48:36.720]  We can solve our legal system problems, I might add just that we know that our country is hurting in credit and finance
[01:48:36.720 --> 01:48:42.720]  And Randy, you just interviewed someone about all the foreclosure problems
[01:48:42.720 --> 01:48:51.720]  Well, our legal system is in as bad a shape, and I'm sure you know this, as the other problems that have beset our country
[01:48:51.720 --> 01:48:58.720]  We need to give attention to changing our legal system so that citizens get justice
[01:48:58.720 --> 01:49:03.720]  And that, from my standpoint, at least at the moment, wraps it up
[01:49:03.720 --> 01:49:06.720]  But Randy, you may have some other questions, what do you think?
[01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:12.720]  Yeah, and Travis, we're sorry, we had to mute you, you were getting a bad echo on your line
[01:49:12.720 --> 01:49:17.720]  So if you've tried to talk and couldn't, that's why we weren't just blowing you off
[01:49:17.720 --> 01:49:24.720]  But we had the same trouble with Dale and had to call back a time or two, we were kind of running out of time
[01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:29.720]  But I'm real pleased with what Dale's trying to do
[01:49:29.720 --> 01:49:35.720]  And I was surprised earlier when you mentioned that you were doing this for free
[01:49:35.720 --> 01:49:40.720]  We told the joke down here recently, but it got so cold down here
[01:49:40.720 --> 01:49:44.720]  We saw an attorney who had his hands in his own pockets
[01:49:44.720 --> 01:49:50.720]  And here we have an attorney who doesn't have his hands in anybody's pockets
[01:49:50.720 --> 01:49:58.720]  Right, you know, it's a mission, I think that a lot of people say, look, there's something I can do
[01:49:58.720 --> 01:50:05.720]  I have the opportunity to be of assistance, to do something that's worthwhile
[01:50:05.720 --> 01:50:10.720]  And that's really my philosophy, I'm not looking to make money
[01:50:10.720 --> 01:50:16.720]  I honestly think that we need solutions to some very serious legal system problems
[01:50:16.720 --> 01:50:23.720]  I've put those solutions together, and my hope and I wish is that people will take a look at this
[01:50:23.720 --> 01:50:28.720]  And if they find them meritorious, that we will try to improve justice
[01:50:28.720 --> 01:50:38.720]  Because it's so important for people to live in a country where we really do have an effective justice system
[01:50:38.720 --> 01:50:40.720]  And that's my goal
[01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:53.720]  And this may be a special time, with Bush and his administration, how corrupt it was
[01:50:53.720 --> 01:51:00.720]  And now that he's out and we have a new administration in, and I know Alex Jones is talking about
[01:51:00.720 --> 01:51:06.720]  Obomination, about how he's as bad as the other, and I tend to agree with him
[01:51:06.720 --> 01:51:10.720]  However, he is a different administration
[01:51:10.720 --> 01:51:18.720]  And now everyone who's still in from the old administration, they feel they're on shaky ground
[01:51:18.720 --> 01:51:23.720]  So this is a real good time for us to make some changes
[01:51:23.720 --> 01:51:29.720]  You know, he made, really, his campaign was change
[01:51:29.720 --> 01:51:35.720]  And whatever else you may say about President Obama, he did put into motion
[01:51:35.720 --> 01:51:41.720]  The notion that change is needed, and that's what I think, I think that's what you're about
[01:51:41.720 --> 01:51:43.720]  And that's certainly what I'm about
[01:51:43.720 --> 01:51:45.720]  And that's exactly what I've said about Obama
[01:51:45.720 --> 01:51:48.720]  I don't know how good a president he's going to be
[01:51:48.720 --> 01:51:56.720]  But he certainly has, he started out by making it clear that this is a different administration
[01:51:56.720 --> 01:51:59.720]  So it's got everybody worried
[01:51:59.720 --> 01:52:06.720]  And with the economic condition, we used to talk about people being asleep and awake
[01:52:06.720 --> 01:52:10.720]  If anybody's asleep now, they're in a coma
[01:52:10.720 --> 01:52:17.720]  So the giants beginning to stir
[01:52:17.720 --> 01:52:20.720]  The opportunity is here
[01:52:20.720 --> 01:52:25.720]  I've been telling folks on the radio that all of us who've been doing this all this time
[01:52:25.720 --> 01:52:29.720]  We've been in training to be ready for this moment in time
[01:52:29.720 --> 01:52:32.720]  So we do have an opportunity to change things
[01:52:32.720 --> 01:52:33.720]  I agree
[01:52:33.720 --> 01:52:39.720]  I'm doing it in here, Dale's doing it, I'm doing it here in Texas and Dale's doing it in Minnesota
[01:52:39.720 --> 01:52:44.720]  And frankly, from what I've heard from Minnesota
[01:52:44.720 --> 01:52:51.720]  It frustrates me to hear it because I don't hear of the checks and balances
[01:52:51.720 --> 01:52:55.720]  They don't appear to be in place in Minnesota the way they were
[01:52:55.720 --> 01:52:57.720]  What about that, Nathan?
[01:52:57.720 --> 01:53:08.720]  You're right, and it gets to the proposition that our whole legal system for the past 70 years
[01:53:08.720 --> 01:53:14.720]  Has declined from a system that really sought to provide justice
[01:53:14.720 --> 01:53:23.720]  To a system that is dominated by money, by greed, by lawyers who are principally concerned with lining their pockets
[01:53:23.720 --> 01:53:27.720]  And not so much with getting justice for the people
[01:53:27.720 --> 01:53:35.720]  And in that respect, judges, regrettably, have collaborated with the lawyer profession
[01:53:35.720 --> 01:53:41.720]  To make our system so complicated and so protracted and so technical
[01:53:41.720 --> 01:53:44.720]  That people are unable to cope with it
[01:53:44.720 --> 01:53:46.720]  It's expensive
[01:53:46.720 --> 01:53:50.720]  For example, in Minnesota, and this is terrible to say
[01:53:50.720 --> 01:53:56.720]  Seven out of ten people in Minnesota go to court without a lawyer
[01:53:56.720 --> 01:53:58.720]  Because they can't afford one
[01:53:58.720 --> 01:54:01.720]  And they can't cope with the system
[01:54:01.720 --> 01:54:08.720]  Literally thousands of poor people lose their kids because they can't cope with the system
[01:54:08.720 --> 01:54:17.720]  Thousands of indigent defendants plea bargain and pay a price for something they never did
[01:54:17.720 --> 01:54:20.720]  Because they can't afford an attorney
[01:54:20.720 --> 01:54:23.720]  Now, is that the kind of system we want?
[01:54:23.720 --> 01:54:25.720]  What do you think?
[01:54:25.720 --> 01:54:28.720]  I obviously am dead set against that
[01:54:28.720 --> 01:54:37.720]  Here in Texas, the average conviction rate for all crimes across the board is 99.6
[01:54:37.720 --> 01:54:38.720]  Wow
[01:54:38.720 --> 01:54:42.720]  I keep asking, how would you define a police state?
[01:54:42.720 --> 01:54:49.720]  In the United States, we contain 4% of the world's population
[01:54:49.720 --> 01:54:54.720]  We house 50% of the world's population of inmates
[01:54:54.720 --> 01:54:57.720]  How would you define a police state?
[01:54:57.720 --> 01:54:59.720]  You got it
[01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:01.720]  And you know what, we have another caller on the line
[01:55:01.720 --> 01:55:03.720]  I'd like to go back to the call board
[01:55:03.720 --> 01:55:05.720]  We just have a few minutes left
[01:55:05.720 --> 01:55:08.720]  We've got Jerry from Texas on the line
[01:55:08.720 --> 01:55:09.720]  Jerry, thanks for calling in
[01:55:09.720 --> 01:55:11.720]  What's on your mind tonight?
[01:55:11.720 --> 01:55:16.720]  Yes, I have a question for both Dale, I guess, and Randy
[01:55:16.720 --> 01:55:19.720]  Randy, the other day I was talking with you
[01:55:19.720 --> 01:55:28.720]  And you mentioned that Dale told you that he recommended to one of his clients
[01:55:28.720 --> 01:55:31.720]  I guess it was probably Gail
[01:55:31.720 --> 01:55:37.720]  That she not file criminal charges against a particular rogue judge
[01:55:37.720 --> 01:55:42.720]  Because in the past there has been retaliation
[01:55:42.720 --> 01:55:45.720]  Could you address that, Dale and Randy?
[01:55:45.720 --> 01:55:50.720]  Jerry almost avoided getting dressed down for being careless
[01:55:50.720 --> 01:55:54.720]  Thank you, I'm glad you brought that up
[01:55:54.720 --> 01:55:58.720]  I appreciate you all addressing that
[01:55:58.720 --> 01:56:00.720]  I'll just drop off and let you handle it
[01:56:00.720 --> 01:56:04.720]  I think most of our listeners will remember us addressing that issue
[01:56:04.720 --> 01:56:07.720]  And how self-righteous we got
[01:56:07.720 --> 01:56:10.720]  I'd like you to hear Dale's take on that now
[01:56:10.720 --> 01:56:17.720]  Well, you know, it's really not so much that we should not bring criminal charges
[01:56:17.720 --> 01:56:21.720]  But rather the manner in which we brought it
[01:56:21.720 --> 01:56:28.720]  The end objective for Gail is to really take care of her kids
[01:56:28.720 --> 01:56:37.720]  And to get a fair shake in preserving her ability to continue to provide responsibly for her kids
[01:56:37.720 --> 01:56:40.720]  And to protect them from her husband
[01:56:40.720 --> 01:56:50.720]  So I really feel that a better approach is to take the criminal actions of this judge
[01:56:50.720 --> 01:56:55.720]  And move forward with them in a somewhat different process
[01:56:55.720 --> 01:56:58.720]  Than actually bringing criminal charges
[01:56:58.720 --> 01:57:00.720]  Because it's a different system
[01:57:00.720 --> 01:57:06.720]  When you bring criminal charges, you get into the criminal side of procedure
[01:57:06.720 --> 01:57:11.720]  And that's not necessarily helpful in this particular set of circumstances
[01:57:11.720 --> 01:57:17.720]  A better approach is to take those same criminal charges or allegations
[01:57:17.720 --> 01:57:22.720]  And this judge really did commit some criminal offenses
[01:57:22.720 --> 01:57:28.720]  And assert them against the judge in a manner such as
[01:57:28.720 --> 01:57:31.720]  Again, I get back to rid of mandamus, rid of prohibition
[01:57:31.720 --> 01:57:37.720]  Utilizing the judicial in our state standards process
[01:57:37.720 --> 01:57:40.720]  Other ways of getting the judge removed
[01:57:40.720 --> 01:57:44.720]  And getting a different judge who will act more responsibly
[01:57:44.720 --> 01:57:48.720]  Rather than proceeding in a criminal proceeding against the judge
[01:57:48.720 --> 01:57:52.720]  It's pretty much the same substance
[01:57:52.720 --> 01:57:56.720]  It's just a somewhat different procedure
[01:57:56.720 --> 01:58:01.720]  I have been involved in Gail's case for, I would say, two, three months
[01:58:01.720 --> 01:58:03.720]  So I was familiar with it
[01:58:03.720 --> 01:58:08.720]  And knowing what I did, I then recommended a somewhat different approach
[01:58:08.720 --> 01:58:11.720]  Dale is cutting us some slack
[01:58:11.720 --> 01:58:17.720]  I talked to him the other day and people who file complaints on judges and wound up prosecuted themselves
[01:58:17.720 --> 01:58:22.720]  So we were sending Gail down a very, very dangerous road
[01:58:22.720 --> 01:58:26.720]  And I'm glad that you stopped us
[01:58:26.720 --> 01:58:30.720]  Well, you're a very responsible and generous guy
[01:58:30.720 --> 01:58:36.720]  And I can't tell you how much I appreciate the inspiration you gave Gail to hang in there
[01:58:36.720 --> 01:58:37.720]  Well, thank you very much
[01:58:37.720 --> 01:58:38.720]  Okay, thank you very much
[01:58:38.720 --> 01:58:40.720]  Alright, we are at the end of our show
[01:58:40.720 --> 01:58:43.720]  This is the Rule of Law on Rule of Law Radio
[01:58:43.720 --> 01:58:45.720]  Ruleoflawradio.com
[01:58:45.720 --> 01:58:50.720]  Tomorrow night we'll be on with our special guest Brian Michaels
[01:58:50.720 --> 01:59:16.720]  We'll be back tomorrow night
[01:59:20.720 --> 01:59:29.720]  I'm like a stepping razor, don't touch my size
[01:59:29.720 --> 01:59:33.720]  I'm dangerous, I'm so dangerous
[01:59:33.720 --> 01:59:37.720]  I'm like a stepping razor, don't touch my size
[01:59:37.720 --> 01:59:40.720]  I'm dangerous, dangerous
[01:59:40.720 --> 01:59:43.720]  If you eat that sport
[01:59:43.720 --> 01:59:47.720]  Then you treat me good
[01:59:47.720 --> 01:59:50.720]  If you drink that soup
[01:59:50.720 --> 02:00:19.720]  Then you treat me good